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[ERROR] No.30155134 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

>You don't need THAT much ammo.
>Mages can be safely saved for last.
>Succubi are completely trustworthy.

>> No.30155193

>Are you saying there are no rules for guns making sound or no rules for bows not making sound? Pick how you are a fucking retard please.

>Shadowrun is the kind of game where Heavy pistols are viable as a primary combatant's main weapon because of the fact they are concealable (Compared to automatics having burst fire for dealing with dodgers and long arms having more pen and damage) and having an implanted comlink/deck is really good because it's hidden.

The latter. Unlike guns with silencers, there is no rules for bows being any more subtle. While that's nice to assume, telling someone that it's a subtle weapon isn't actually true.

And unlike the lack of rules for bows being more quiet, there IS rules for concealing pistols.

>> No.30155221


Right, which is the more terrifying form of robotic locomotion:

1. The Unstoppable Dog Sized Pack Cockroach.


2. The Companion Cube is mad as hell and is not going to take it anymore.


Personally I find the movement of the cube to be approaching the "fuck Euclid and his geometry with a rake" Lovecraft horror.

>> No.30155314

>inb4 that one party that has the earthdawnboner GM talks about their shit and other people get mad at then

>> No.30155348


I'm in that game. I'm OP.

>> No.30155383

A Technomancer with a Nadeshiko he pours all his money into to turn her into his robowaifu
Yay or nay?

Also, machine spirits, why are they so talked up?

>> No.30155417

hey /srg/ i got a dumb question

in 5th edition, i was looking over the example runners and grunts and i noticed that some attributes have a number in parenthesis next to them, what does this mean?

>> No.30155423

>Create young female PhysAd, mage and technomancer
>Have magical girl shadowrunning adventures
Why isn't this how you shadowrun?

>> No.30155449

because magic girls a shit

>> No.30155459

>TFW 2012 came and went with no dragons.

>Then 2013...

>> No.30155489


>> No.30155516

go back to magical burst you pedo

>> No.30155527

Nigga better step off.
Don't tell me this bitch wouldn't make a bitchin' 'runner.

>> No.30155537

>A Technomancer with a Nadeshiko he pours all his money into to turn her into his robowaifu
That is literally going to be me.

>> No.30155600

>Also, machine spirits, why are they so talked up?
SR4A, page 242, power "Diagnostics".

tl;dr Machine Sprites can possess an item, make an Aid Another test, roll (Rating x 2) dice, and add any hits as bonus dice to any attempt to use said item.

So imagine you spin up a Rating 6 Machine Sprite. It gets to roll 12 dice on Diagnostic, averaging 4 successes. That gives you a bonus 4 dice to use whatever item the Machine Sprite is possessing. Like, for example, your gun.

>> No.30155639

That bitch wouldn't make a bitchin' 'runner.

>> No.30155643

Its the augmented value due to gear

>> No.30155724

for some reason, I always missed the 'use' part and thought it was repair only

>> No.30155759

Also, continuous use of a power counts as 1 task per 8 hours, so even if you only barely managed to compile the Machine Sprite, the bonus still lasts for a nontrivial amount of time.

>> No.30155978

Machine sprites have the diagnostics power which gives you free bonus dice when using an electronic device.
The stability power can be used to avoid torches brought on my any umber of circumstances.
They can take motherfucking autosofts.
Piloting, Perception, Shooting, Infiltration, Shadowing, Tracking, most knowledge skills and technical skills are included in that list.

As well as the other awesome stuff sprites can do.

Machine Sprites are love in 4e

>> No.30156007

*glitches, not torches
Fucking autocorrect

>> No.30156080

Motorboating Hestaby, how do?

>> No.30156157


Are you sure you want to go down this path, anon?

>> No.30156158

Be multiple Great Dragons, gang up on her. I.e. be Storm Front.

>> No.30156234

I am fucking positive.

>> No.30156294

Well, if you somehow found a way to help her get some capital-R Revenge on the rest the GDs, you might just get close enough to her and have enough good will that she wouldn't instantly kill you.

>> No.30156480

Is there anything else that involves Saeletra other than that one message or were they just a one off?

>> No.30156526

Romance through compatibility.

>> No.30156549

With an actual motorboat, obviously.

>> No.30156570

Shadowrun wikia says no, but that's generally a good two years out of date at the best of times.

>> No.30156592

Shadowrun stuff on the net seems sadly rare.

>> No.30156668

It really sort of depresses me. I love cyberpunk and futurism, and I hold that the advancement of the arts containing such topics is really a key thing. Because society at large can either take to its legs and stand, or it can fall face first back into the muck. And it may never get up again. We've burned a lot of resources. If we were to lose what progress we've made, we may truly be fucked as a planet.

>> No.30156750

>time stopping adept

>> No.30156777

Also Nothing on the asofyet unnamed Great Dragon who talked with Lofwyr, Hestaby and (Ryumyo?) after Dunkelzahn's death.

Shadowrun at times seems to be one big mess of once mentioned then abandoned plot points.
And they they ignore them all in favour if more horseshit with the Fucker in Face Paint and his retarded crotch socket.

>> No.30156826

How do you kill Lofwyr, /tg/?

>> No.30156844

I think I get what you're generally saying, but that's kinda deep for an /srg/ thread, dude. You feeling okay today?

>> No.30156885

Inflate his ego to critical smug levels, then watch as he explodes from not being able to contain it.

>> No.30157017

I think you massively underestimate the Ego capacity of Dragons Chummer.
Especially herr Brackhaus, the most powerful living being in the world.

>> No.30157081

whos the technomancer?

>> No.30157151

Convince him that doing so will make him the most powerful being in the multiverse
I suggest the Head of Vecna

>> No.30157153


The NPC that's been giving GMs the chance to shamelessly rip off that one scene from The Usual Suspects since 1995.

>> No.30157191

convince him that killing himself*

>> No.30157261

That NPC who in any given case may be Lofwyr, the "first" Brackhaus, a Krupp Johnson, or a pretender.

Always be careful around a Brackhaus... You can never be sure.

>> No.30157441

>> No.30157506

>Lone Star SWAT throws a grenade at the runner group.
>The rigger of the party interjects and requests to use an interrupt action.
>GM: "You want to move out of the way?"
>Rigger: "No, I'd like to spend a complex action to kung fu kick the grenade back."
>GM: "Hm... All right, roll for it." *Threshold 4*
>Rigger: *5 hits* "Does it get a dodge roll?"
>GM: "No, it doesn't get a dodge roll.
>GM: *Calculates scatter, the grenade as a result of the kick flies backwards, behind the rigger.*
>*Grenade blows, knocking out a shadowrunner.*

>> No.30157511

Eh. I worry about this shit every day. Reading the news depresses the hell out of me normally.

That image does nothing to stem my desire for a Payday/Shadowrun crossover.

>> No.30157555

If the threshold was 4 and he got 5 hits, why did everything go wrong?
Did he kick it so hard that it bounced off the enemy's wall back to the runners?

>> No.30157627

well he did his best

>> No.30157669


Essentially. There were pillars in the way.

>> No.30157752

Really, if you can look beyond the lack of orcs and magic, pretty much any decent heist story can be good inspiration for Shadowrun.

>> No.30157979

This is the entire premise of the game I'm currently in.
While the "Never cut a deal with a dragon" bit is important.
Without making this deal, we would never have had a reason to send Lofwyr a beautiful jade and gold strapon. With Hestabys lipstick around the base, and a note saying "You're Next"

>> No.30158202

Sounds more like something Nadja Daviar would do, but interseting none the less.

>> No.30158230


The rules talk about how firearms make noise. By that logic throwing a punch makes as much noise as a gun you dumbass.

>> No.30158288

Given that our current run is post-stormfront we figured it was probably fitting.
Lofwr fucked Hestaby's shit up.
Now Hestaby is going to fuck Lofwyr.

Our personal side-mission is to one day 3D Harlequin through a table. We are getting close I feel.

>> No.30158317

Speaking of stormfront, can anyone give me a bullet point rundown on the major setting changes?

>> No.30158422

>3D Harlequin through a table

My sibling of African descent.

>> No.30158522

Off the top of my head?

-Hestaby got kicked out of the Secret Clubhouse for not being enough of an asshole.

-Ghouls and vampires are finding it harder not to go feral because Reasons.

-Ares last big product rollout was enough of a fuckup to hurt the entire corp.

-Matrix-ghosts are highjacking peoples' bodies and fucking with nanotech. Also Fastjack, Riser and maybe Plan 9 are infected.

>> No.30158616

>Fastjack, Riser and maybe Plan 9 are infected.
But does anyone care?

>> No.30158623

One of my players seems to think that his chameleon suit means that he should be able to sneak right up to people without them seeing him. I disagreed, saying that if you walked right next to a group of people, they would probably see you even if you did have ruthenium polymers giving them a -4 to perception.

My reasoning is they would get huge bonuses due to the fact that the target of their perception is right in front of them (these people are alert, for the record.)

Am I being an asshole by denying him this? Or is he asking for too much?

>> No.30158705


I feel like that's just a bit to much. You could justify it saying that they can hear him. If he wanted to be completely invisible, he should've requested somebody cast invisibility on him or something. But if the guy is right next to his target, a group no less, they'd be able to see him.

>> No.30158715

Riser was always kind of a douche, but I quite liked the other two.

>> No.30158741

is he sneaking up to them or really just walking around like he has a cloak of invisibility
Because the first is an opposed test
The second is everyone seeing the predator shimmer
Oh, and if his suit doesn't have thermal dampening, thermographic vision might be a rude awakening (as well as awakened people just looking in your general direction)

>> No.30158764

If there's a technomancer in the group is there a reason to go full decker?

>> No.30158774

A chameleon suit's basicly Predator cloaking; it might be hard to spot at a distance with some cover, but it's damn sure not going to let you stroll right up to someone in plain sight.

>> No.30158816

A chameleon suit is like Snake's MGS4 suit minus the thermal sensor fooling and muscle suit functions. It's very effective camouflage, not invisibility.

>> No.30158840

From what I can recall.

The Aztlan/Amazonia war come to an end. Azatlan wins.
They also fuck Sirrurge up good and propper.

Dragons have a huge fight, Alamais is killed, Lowfyr is hurt. Hestaby is blamed and punished. New Loremaster tells dragons to pack their shit in within the year.

The Ork-underground is made a propper part of Seattle. No one gives a shit.

Ghostwalker and Harlequin have a DBZ fight in Denver. Pucks character is ruined in the meantime.

Ares makes a gun so shit, it actually hurts their bottom line.

Vamps and gouls go ferral. Fuck knows why.

Theres an election in the Tir. Again, wooo.

Turns out dodger may be a technomancer, and working for corps and cops.

The japan-corps band together to make NIPPON-STONG!

The matrix gets de-wirelessed, because corps are sick of hackers getting into their shit.

Fastjack, riser, Plan9 and fuck knows how many more are posessed. So Jack hands over JackPont to Bull, Slamm-o and Glitch. Then ride out to fuck whatever this thing is, read: be totally fogotten about and have the plot be left hanging.

This is everything in Storm Front, at what I remember.

>> No.30158856

Next time you see him be sure to wear camo that matches your surroundings and just walk around like an ass.

>> No.30158877

Can you heal stun damage from drug after effects and magic drain with the first aid skill? It seems like it would be something your body simply has to get out of its system naturally.

>> No.30158889


>And they they ignore them all in favour if more horseshit with the Fucker in Face Paint and his retarded crotch socket

And also nearly the entire background. The lack of 'Chummer' in either 4e core or 20th really made me want to slap a slitch.

On top of it, they've now had four editions, and cyberware has only gotten more worthless, and cyberlimbs are still wastes of money and essence.

We'll never get the edition we deserve. Even SR2050 kept the sr4 cyber and bioware stats, rather then going back to at least 3e's situation where bioware couldn't improve your stats passed your racial maximum.

I'd love to just slap a cyberlimb or two onto my street samurai, but the essence loss would kill me, and if I take out the other 'ware I need to put even one on, I'm not competitive with a pure bioware samurai.

>> No.30158905

As part of the Azt-Am spat, the PCC purchased a large part of Texas that acts as a buffer between Aztlan and the CAS, but there is no information beyond that, so no word on what the new borders should look like, or what cities are now PCC territory.

>> No.30158908


I've seen people heal Technomancer drain with First Aid, so I think you could do the same with Magic drain. I'm not so sure about drug after effects though.

>> No.30158909

Damn right.
I've been playing this game for years and 'Harlequin' was mine and my friends first session.
I learned to hate that fucker and love Shadowrun at the same time.

>> No.30158916

Don't know about drugs but the only way to heal drain is to sleep it off.

>> No.30158928

Because you want to?
It's easy enough for a GM to design runs which may need two hackers to complete effectively.
Personal desire should always trump group utility IMO.

All Hackers? Prepare for a trip through every crazy node ever made.
All Mages? Astral shenanigans are go!
All Street Samurai? Did I hear someone say mortal combat across increasingly ludicrous terrain?

Teams with a theme are more interesting to play with than groups who merely "cover every base".

>> No.30158936

As far as I remember you're not technically supposed to be able to do either of those things. But your GM may vary.

>> No.30158951

What about an all-rigger campaign?

>> No.30158953

>Homura as an adept
Huh, I never thought of that. MysAd or normal?

>> No.30158967


If it's in the RAW, then I'd reconsider how I'd handle those situations, but yeah, other than that I don't know.

>> No.30158972

The custom cyberlimb rules in augmentation/20th anniversary make cyberlimbs considerably less worthless.

>> No.30158980

You explicitly can only recover from drain with time and rest.

Anything else should be so rare as to be plot critical, like a dragon going like "Nah son if I don't restore your drain it is an apocalyptic event" or a super dangerous magical item.

5e limbs are powerful as long as you don't take them for a general stat boost. You either go full limbs to shove a ton of crap in them and have less efficient stats (that are still the same as enhanced stats), are going with augmentations and less efficient utility implants without limbs, or are getting one arm replaced for retarded strength or agility

They are breaking the rules.

They arn't stupid. They know Harlequin personally annoys runners. He is the guy you love to despise and is a great way to keep the pink mohawk elements strong in the core fluff.

>> No.30158990

>game of drones.jpeg

>> No.30158996


Fair enough.

>> No.30159022

Robots! Ro-Battle!

>> No.30159052

I can't find the errata on the official site. Where is it?

>> No.30159053

Riggers don't have as much niche depth as say.... Mages or cyberware users.

You got basically the agro combat rigger wading into the front lines supported by drones and the spider rigger with a bunch of spy shit and hover assassins who also hacks.

>> No.30159064

>They arn't stupid. They know Harlequin personally annoys runners. He is the guy you love to despise and is a great way to keep the pink mohawk elements strong in the core fluff.

I'd love to agree with you, but My longtime GM is utterly in love with that painted cockweed.
It's been our goal since 1991 to one day get our fucking own back on that prick.

>> No.30159074

>fuck the shadows, lets make the wwf, but with robots
>1 guy with a manservant, two with Nadeshiko, and one with a Ares City Master modded to have arms and legs

>> No.30159128

>Pucks character is ruined in the meantime.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that little gem. Second most infuriating thing in that book.

At least a half-dozen books worth of buildup, only for his whole character arc to get thrown under the bus.

>> No.30159132

Does he have any kind of permanent protection against say, lead slugs propelled at supersonic speeds from a kilometer away? If not then it's a simple matter of discovering his daily routine, setting up in an appropriate place with an unobstructed view, and employing the Kincaid solution.

>> No.30159138

MysAd due to time magic

>> No.30159157

>Night One
>Mount lower body to a large spider drone
>Upper body is armoured or at least cyber upped
>Decent combatant
There's plenty of things you can do with riggers, or any archtype for the matter in 5e. 4e was fun too, like the adept who does nothing but order people around.

>> No.30159191

The fucker has 7 fucking edge and 250 available karma for anything he wants.
Twat aint going down without shinanigins of the highest order.

>> No.30159199

They might be able to salvage the situation if it turns out Puck found out Ghostwalker was working with Pax, and hacked his servers to find more info.

Though the likelihood if that being true considering how shit the entire book was, is low.
Sill, I live in hope.

>> No.30159222

GMs love Harlequin because of that exact reasons.

Runners fucking hate him so much for no reason other than he is there and they can't meaningfully interact with them. You are so powerless and he taunts you. Laughs at you. And he is so fucking weird to boot. It gets you into the mindset of the game rather well.

He does. Harelquin is probably more powerful than most dragons. He is the guy basically coordinating the preparation for [REDACTED] and it has been stated he has had an anti-nuclear warhead spell researched and active as of July 16, 1945 simply because he understands what humans are like As in he is acutely aware certain people, aka you, will hate him so much they would be willing to nuke him

If DNI doesn't work for 1:1 limb control, rigging it certainly fucking wouldn't. You were essentially a street samurai who cheated.

I fucking love that idea though and stole it for a creepy cyber fetishist cultist leader NPC in my game

>> No.30159230


Unless I'm mistaken, you need a cyber torso to bring your augmented stats higher then your racial maximum. Combine that with the fact that some GMs may demand that you use both arms for various things, and both legs are going to have to be replaced to allow for things like super-jumping and super-running, and cyberlimbs just aren't cost or essence effective.

Even with biocompatability, it's impossible to do without betaware.

What would really make it all worth it would be if your GM lets you redline your cyberlimbs. 9 x 2 = 18, which on top of a good combat skill would allow a super-cybered street samurai to roll over twenty dice. But then again, I swear 20th capped all dice pools at 18, so that's not really useful anyway.

Meanwhile, with In Debt and Restricted Gear, I can get BOD4+4 for damage resistance from bone augmentation, and AGI9 and STR7 from muscle augmentation and toner. Meanwhile, my reaction enhancers and wired reflexes boost my REA up to 9 as well. This is out of chargen, mind you.

My aforementioned street samurai is rolling 20 dice to soak damage, 19/20 dice to shoot, and 17 dice to punch people in the face for physical damage. I can take on moderately cybered trolls and win. As an Elf.

This isn't right.

>> No.30159239

>MysAd is expensive as hell
>Priority System
>Homura has no social skills
>She is also retarded about not-combat
>No money, just steals stuff
>Keeps spamming the same spells all over and relies on conventional weapons

It makes sense now. She was the group minmaxer.

>> No.30159266

Again, shadowrun 5e managed to make limbs super viable both for full body replacement (They address how limbs function in terms of if the action requires your whole body or just the limb), much less expensive, and having a single limb changed, specifically an arm, is a top tier choice.

Legit, Right arm replaced with a max agility cyberlimb is so deliberately good they slapped it on the weapon specialist 2.0, who along with smuggler and sprawl ganger were clearly optimized in a "Not again, never again" moment.

>> No.30159281

Harlequin is dead
He was such a twat and a threat that GD's got together, thor-shotted him, did fly-by attacks on his corpse, thor-shot again, dropped the carefully collected scraps of the body into different volcanoes, and each burned two points of edge to keep him down

But they never mention that in the history trids

>> No.30159308

shhh no one must find this out

>> No.30159311

>They are breaking the rules.

In 5e, yes. In 4e, no.

>> No.30159319

>Unless I'm mistaken, you need a cyber torso to bring your augmented stats higher then your racial maximum.

You are half right, you need a cyber torso if your cyberlimbs have strength/body/agility enhancement(s) over 3. So if you are using a custom cyberlimb and your character has, for example, six strength(assuming human), and the custom cyberlimb has been matched to his physique(because why the hell wouldn't it be)you can then dump three strength enhancements into said arm to bring you up to the aug max without a cyber torso.

>> No.30159391


I heard otherwise. I might have to check out 5e then.


Ah, I see. I was assuming a min-maxer perspective sort of, where you bring your natural stats up only as high as they need to be to bring them up to augmented maximum. Clearly, the rules were designed to make this impossible, forcing you to buy up your natural stats before allowing you to buy up enhancements to the limb.

>> No.30159447

Wired Reflexes

You can't really be a mundane street sam without them, but if you get them you're already out a big-ass chunk of your essence
So what's a mundane to do? Besides becoming an adept

>> No.30159494

Synaptic Booster?

>> No.30159510


It doesn't really matter since Mundanes have no use for essence besides zero being death. They have that up on adepts, mages, TMs, etc. etc. So they can aug up all they damn well please.

>> No.30159513


Intentions are a bit iffy. The customised cyberlimb rules were only in augmentation. Technically you could have terrible stats, and use enhance them up to the max, but that would require a cybertorso, and that's such an essence intensive procedure that nobody really bothered.
Redlining's a big boost, but any serious buff to your stats is likely to cause you some real issues stun damage wise. And only for a single roll. It's an interesting idea, but the present implementation leaves it a bit of a white elephant.

>Haha! Did you think that was really me?
>Harlequin Returns (Again), Coming This Fall.

>> No.30159517

Not entirely true, by raw you can start with one in all your physical stats and then replace them with full custom cyberlimbs. Just do it all at once or you'll look weird as a fucking 90 pound beanpole with one gigantic beefy cyberarm.

>> No.30159546

I actually liked Storm Front on the whole, since most of the plot in there had enough of a leadup to be justifiable. Still, there was a lot of things in there that pissed me off.

Harliquen can work, he just needs to be handled a lot differantly than he has been. The only real comparision I can think of is Draco from the Feng Shui RPG; this near-mythical force of nature the players only occasionally hear about, and maybe run in to the aftermath of, but he should never, fucking Never appear on camera making halfassed jokes.

>> No.30159552

Do I look like I'm made of money chummer?

>> No.30159557

Is it possible to play Eve's concept from Elsword in SR5? Specifically the Code: Empress route.

Basically she's a rigger with two humanoid drones that she uses to fight as well as servants. One uses a glorified sword and the other uses electric shocks.

I know it's from a weeaboo as hell game, but the concept itself is interesting.

>> No.30159575

You'll make the big leagues one day, omae.

>> No.30159601

You still are penalized for full replacement. The idea is that a general stat upgrade with decent stats to start with is ALWAYS superior to a full limb loadout.

Instead they made limb pricing a bit less agressive, capacity is a bigger thing because the primary draw of ware are capacity based items due to pool boosts being a bit out for now, and made it more explicit what having only one limb will do (For full body actions you average the limbs and your natural stat, for actions that only require that specific body part you get the full limb stat) and customization is pretty cheap. Essentially you can easily get agility +3 on your limb for only 39,500 nuyen+5k per stat above 3 and what is effectivel negative essence. Compare that to the 75,000 and 3 essence for muscle replacement or 96,000 and .6 essence from toner, which may I add you can't start with. You also get a wound out of the deal, and a limb is less overtly combat specific than muscle replacement or toner.

Not required in 5e due to initiative changes (though still powerful, they can be sub optimal in some builds that can easily bite into another initiative bracket with a regular reflex enhancer but can't hit one above it with a lucky wired 2 roll), man up if you decide to power through with 4e and take them. It is one of those things no one on earth likes about 4e yet inexplicably forgets about when 5e versus 4e comes up.

>> No.30159611


>> No.30159643

You are now acutely aware Harelquin goro films probably make a ton of money off of runners who deal with him regularly.


You either go drugs, which is short sighted in the extreme, wired, or play a concept that doesn't utilize wired like rigger, hacker or mage.

Even the god damn face needs to get wired 1 for when he starts waving a hold out light pistol at a dude's face he smuggled into negotiations.

>> No.30159759

What, like, sell them?

>> No.30159765

Hey Shadowrun General. I've not played this game before, but I have a lot of interest in it. I was going to run a short game for my friends on a coming long weekend; is there a pastebin you guys have for all the essentials? Are there multiple editions? Which .pdfs should I look for (yes, I plan on buying the books if I like them, even if it's for an out-of-print edition)?

Please /tg/, you're my only hope of not having to run d20 Modern Urban Arcana this weekend

>> No.30159817

There are drugs that give you initiative passes. Including one designed specifically for mundane cops with no combat 'ware who regularly need to try to contain cyberpsychos and nutjob yakuza razors that exists to give those cops wired for short boosts.

Decent way to give a mage 'wired as long as you ONLY use it in emergencies. Addiction sucks ass for anyone, but especially a mage. You may be able to get treatments for that essence hole to be closed, but the magic point is gone for good till you spend karma on it.

[Spoiler]I have had a ton of fun with urban arcana despite the fact the system is bleh[/spoiler]

That said it is too late for me to give that huge post I do about how to capture SR besides saying "it isn't D&D, the guy who carries a heavy pistol under his coat or even in a cyberarm slide is objectively smarter than the guy brandishing an AK in 90% of situations, and don't make the badguys geniuses who can pinpoint the fact runners are even in the building at all, let alone where they are, right away. Even the sound of the troll unloading a chaingun just should be "Shots fired secure the building" rather than "Go get em!"

>> No.30159830


There's multiple editions. The newest is 5th edition. Apparently that one is a little bit better than 4e, but 4e is totally viable (I run 4e.) If you go for 4e, I'd get the core book, Unwired (Hacker stuff), and Runner's Companion (General Play stuff that allows for wider chargen). However, if you're *ahem* "looking" for pdfs, here's a short list that I'd recommend in addition to what I mentioned already: Street Magic, Arsenal, Augmentation, Seattle 2072, and Vice. Those are all really good 4e books. I hope you have fun, Shadowrun is a lot of work but with a big payoff!

>> No.30159834

There are five editions, since you're new you may as well start with fifth.

>> No.30159881

>However, if you're *ahem* "looking" for pdfs


Fuck the GOD, they can't catch me.

>> No.30159893

>Unwired over Arsenal

You can hack with just the core, you cannot rig worth a shit without Arsenal.

>> No.30159950

Alright, thanks for the edition and book suggestions. I'm probably going to be running this and Dogs in the Vineyard this weekend, since I've been wanting some dicepool action.

How hard will this be for people to pick up and play? Should I start priming my players now or should they be fine if I just generate a few sheets.

I actually have almost no problems with d20 modern, love Urban Arcana, and have physical books for both. But I've decided I can't become one of those Grognards who never moves beyond D&D 3.5 and derivatives. Shadowrun seems as good a system to pop my cherry with as any, especially since it's fairly subgenre adaptable.

You are bro-tier, anon. Probably gonna be doing 5E but even just getting some core stuff and fluff down right now is gonna be mad radical.

>> No.30160014


The rules are pretty complicated. If you want something fast, you might consider getting the quick start rules which are here:

As for picking this up, it's kinda a crapshoot. There's really no way to pick up all the fine nuances the first time, but the basic system is pretty easy, I feel.


I didn't get a rigger player until my 7th player. But I had like 3 hackers, so I'm a bit biased, but I get what you mean though. I like the hacking a bit better, in my opinion.


You are simply the most badass person I ever met. You gonna go sip whiskey with Clint Eastwood later? Seriously though, thanks for posting that so I didn't have to.

>> No.30160032


Fucked up, the quick start rules are here: http://www.shadowruntabletop.com/wp-content/uploads/Downloads/Shadowrun%20Quick-Start%20Rules.pdf

>> No.30160050

For the record, while they aren't really needed to play, Emergence and Attitude have some good fluff and are decent enough reads on their own.

>> No.30160101

Cheers for the link, man.
Awesome. Fluff is my favourite part of any game; I'm a forever GM but since map making, world building, and creating NPCs I can't really complain.

Well, I'm off to start some reading. Night, SRG!

>> No.30160117

*creating NPCs are my favourite parts of PnP

>> No.30160232

So, I stole a magical artifact.
However, I'm not retarded so I dumped it off to a talismonger and got about 80,000¥ for it.
Even more amazing, I have two fairly easy, cut-and-dry jobs lined up for which I already have pretty much all the tools I need.
And after those, I'm heading down into Aztlan, in order to resupply an Apache insurgency and destroy a machine they've built for the express purpose of bringing demons into our plane of existence. Via human sacrifice, preferably children or pregnant women.

So, my question is, what should I spend my 80K on?

>> No.30160271

Guns, the answer is always guns.

>> No.30160290

I'm more of a rigger, so I'm looking into a bigger drone arsenal. Should I go for the big expensive ones, or just an army of cheaper ones?

>> No.30160385

i read through attitude, and holy fuck i hope i don't have to be as detailed as that on my runs
it also makes me worried about not starting at street level

>> No.30160464

Which edition? If 5e, definitely cheaper & more.

>> No.30160472

Of course you don't. Everything in there is completely optional, and mostly there for flavour. Well, except for steampunk being a really stupid fashion trend. That's just blatantly obvious.

>> No.30160711


Mine American bretheren of a descent hailing from the African continent

>> No.30160757

He can edge to dodge one bullet. Can he edge to dodge eight? How about eighty? How about if they were rockets? Or if they were lasers fired from a disco-ball-like device? Can he survive being at ground zero of a Thor shot? Goddamn, son, think about these things.

>> No.30160813

You're gonna need some guns to mount on those drones. Imagine it, a dozen flying guns, following you around, controlled by murder thoughts.

>> No.30160866

If you're playing 4e, buy a Tata Hotspur and mod it to have arms, legs, more armour and a rigger cocoon. Boom, instant Gundam.

>> No.30160962

Grab a few cheap ones and mount grenade launchers on them so aim precision doesn't matter. Fire pepper punch gas grenades and be riot control.

>> No.30160997

Guys, MuscleWizard is a good build for Shadowrun right? What are the chances I'll be taken out first because Mystic Adept?

>> No.30161007

Starting character or you gonna pump strength/body up later with karma?

>> No.30161015

100%. You're the Mage. Geek The Mage First. You'll be able to deal with it, though.

>> No.30161018

>Can he survive being at ground zero of a Thor shot?

Once per point of edge, yes. You'll run out of Thor shots before he runs out of Edge.

>> No.30161032


>100%. You're the Mage. Geek The Mage First. You'll be able to deal with it, though.

That's why it pays for mages to not look like mages and for regenerating werebear adepts to look like mages.

>> No.30161056

So, the Iron Will exoskeleton gives you a STR of 8, and it itself has a BOD of 6. Is it completely out of the question to mount an MMG on one arm, or would the recoil completely fuck it?

>> No.30161066

That's when you have the snipers take their shots, either they kill him or they corral him into the killzone of the mounted heavy machine guns.

>> No.30161130


...pretty sure your snipers are going to be very, very dead if they were within shooting range of him when the Thor Shots went off.

That and you've got to spot the fucker. He's got a magic 9 improved invisibility + 15? dice towards actual stealth skills.

>> No.30161136

>Ares makes a gun so shit, it actually hurts their bottom line.
What gun? How was it shit?

>> No.30161171

The Excalibur, and a well-done PR campaign against it.

>> No.30161174

It's starting level, already pumped up STR to 8 with PP.
Well I'm doing the fist thing, I might just look like a puncher! That might help right?

>> No.30161178

Helicopters and every form of sense enhancement cyberware known to man.

>> No.30161195

Get two sustaining foci at high Force, and then just boost Combat Sense and Improved Reflexes through them, then use adept powers to make your punches punchier.

>> No.30161212


Improved Invisibility beats technology. You'd need mages (That can somehow beat his magic) rather than sense enhancement.

>> No.30161222

>Fuck Euclid"
This thing has literally no issue with euclid, while hundreds of things you deal with in average life break his rules.

Every time /tg/ makes a reference to Euclid a puppy chokes.

>> No.30161225

Well I currently had Critical Strike 5 for +5 Unarmed stuff, but I will look into Foci a bit more!

>> No.30161231

>Improved Invisibility beats technology.

Even ultra wide band radar?

>> No.30161244

Critical Strike is pretty awesome, too. If you still have money after the sustaining foci, get a set of knucks as a weapon focus for boffo damage through that.

>> No.30161252


If you are using it to see, yes. Ultrasound gets by it but is easily taken out by the silence equivalent of invisibility.

>> No.30161259

/srg/, I need your aid.

I am attempting to make a monster hunter/vampire hunter sort of character.

Can you recommend anything that I should pick up? I'll be going with a crossbow for a weapon, and am going adept. It's SR4A with some tweaks like using the SR5 costing for Improved Physical Attribute.

>> No.30161263

Well I actually have a good bit of cash left, so I could probably grab that focus since I picked up the Knucks already!

>> No.30161266

Paint can.

>> No.30161286

Dual-natured wood for your bolts, if you can afford it or get hold of it. Otherwise, roll a standard sniping build.

>> No.30161291


Invisibility isn't beaten by paint.The paint would go invisible to.

That and you need to HIT him with the paint. The fucker has like 25 dice to dodge attacks/avoid sneak attacks.

>> No.30161296

I'm pretty sure radar augment let's you see invisible shit, it let's you see through walls for fuck's sake. And it's not like you're technically using it to see, it's doing it's radar thing and the included crypto sense module is taking the info and translating it into something that makes sense to your eyes, so you don't have radar vision per se, the augment is telling your eyes that there's a dude shaped object about X meters that way behind that wall, he's sitting on a chair shaped something.

>> No.30161305

Paint full of RFIDs. Why is this so hard?

>> No.30161307

>Ultrasound gets by it but is easily taken out by the silence equivalent of invisibility.
At the expense of being a conspicuously blank area for ultrasound users, as though a hole had opened up in space.

>> No.30161308

Crop dusters.

>> No.30161329

Which makes targeting him with missiles of a sufficient thermobaric payload easy as balls.

>> No.30161347

A few ranks in related knowledge skills, like Sixth World Monster Allergies. Street or Professional, depending on whether you've pumped Int or Log higher.

Which edition?

>> No.30161366

SR4, though a little bit of 5e stuff is used when it makes sense or is better.

>> No.30161373

Might be fun to roll it as an Enchanting-focused MystAd, use some dual-natured wood as suggested in >>30161286 and go full Hawkeye, using magic bolts that do shit like explode on contact or drop a Mass Orgasm or whatever.

>> No.30161374


Because invisibility isn't just the visual spectrum. The spells name is a bit of a misnomer. Improved Invisibility fools nearly all sensors, even those not based on direct vision.

>Why is this so hard?

Because when you give a guy a spell list of 'Whatever the fuck he needs' and the ability to break stat caps, he's got an answer for nearly anything.


There is a penalty listed for dodging AOE attacks...it's not big enough to make it likely to hit him with his fuckoff big combat reflexes up.

>> No.30161390

Paint / Ink bombs are still going to cause footprints, and Spy Games has a nasty little grenade that splashes the area with a mostly frictionless substance. Double down, then shoot.

>> No.30161392

>Improved Invisibility beats technology

Could go the Artemis Fowl route. Scan the air for trace elements, go after the hole his body creates.

>> No.30161396

Who's attacking? I'm just spraying this big ass area with bright paint that can be easily picked up by even the shittiest sensor, for reasons.

>> No.30161400

What does a dragon's lair look like in Shadowrun?

>> No.30161401


Homura's got more grit than most of the genre combined, so she's a bit of a cherrypicked example.

I'd also pick out Sailor Uranus, on that note. Haruka'd fit right in with the razorgirl crowd.

>> No.30161407

Why not just scan for where he's not, then? Should be simple enough.

>> No.30161417

Empire State Building.

>> No.30161421

Then I'd go with an option that doesn't involve essence or auras, (and thus can't be essence drained / viewed on the astral) like an AI.

>> No.30161445

You must be using 4e, then. Improved Invis 5e is specifically Single Sense, though it works on anything that uses the expanded visual spectrum. (lowlight, thermo, etc)

>> No.30161467

It's single sense in 4E as well, I'm looking at the spell in the 20th anniversary core right now.

>> No.30161547


That's still an Area attack. Like throwing a grenade into a room is an attack, even if you say 'I'm not planning on hurting anyone, just doing it for reasons'''

>Why not just scan for where he's not, then? Should be simple enough.

Because scanning an area that big is pretty much impossible without a drone swarm? And a single great form spirit could reduce all said drones to scrap with a single Storm.

Even then, sensors don't allow you to automatically defeat the stealth rules. So you'd still need to spot the cheeky fucker.

The Fucking Clown's issue is very much an Elminister one. He's a wizard with a spell list that says 'I can do whatever the fuck I want' and mental stats high enough that the GM basically NEEDS to include retroactive plans because the fucker is smarter than the GM himself. There is even a story where he violates one of the core rules of shadowrun magic and uses metaplaner portals to bypass the teleport restrictions the setting has.


I wasn't aware the clown fucker had 5e stats, so yeah. I was going with the version


Huh, my bad. Invisibility isn't quite as much an answer as I'd thought. He'd have to use Physical Mask, which IS Multi-Sense. At which point he's anyone in the world.

Or use Really Improved Invisibility (Street Magic Spell Design Rules. Improved Invisibility swapped to multi-sense for +2 drain. He does have a spell list of 'Whatever he needs'...which gets really stupid with spell design rules.)

>> No.30161587

The Excalibur, and they hyped the shit out of of it, only to find at rollout time that it was an unreliable piece of crap that couldn't fire more than one mag without jamming, warping, or sometimes just plain explodiing.

>> No.30161728

Oh, we're going with 4e. That makes it easier.

>Wizard with the Enhance spells stacked and Quickened to the point where he could 1v1 Goku
>Soften him up with FA missile spray first
>Nail some form of CC spell to each and every missile
>Nail the biggest goddamned Fireball you can find to the Mage's fist.
>Pic very much related

>> No.30161812


The enhance can't push you above augmented caps. The fucker clown already did it (I'm not kidding. Most of his stats are at or ABOVE augmented cap)

He's also got unarmed 6. He's probably going to riposte that punch.

>> No.30161853

wouldn't the augmented cap of immortal elves be different or something?

>> No.30161860

Wait, should that be a Sustaining Spell Focus, or a Qi Focus?

>> No.30161876


>> No.30161901


No clue. It would explain why he's broken what's a normal elfs stat caps on some stats.

>> No.30161910

No, not really. Harlequin just literally straight up breaks the rules of the system and setting, shreds existing fluff to bits, and generally shits up the place like an extremely drunk friend that shits on your couch at a party. Yet for some reason, despite the fact that Harlequin is literally almost universally hated, he's still used.

>> No.30161941

They are not. Read Street Legends Supplemental again. All his attributes are AT cap, and none of his skills is over cap.

This being said, I greatly despise the fact that SR4 felt the need to give stats to plot elements such as dragons and the smug bastard.

unrelated: someone asked for the errata document. Here goes

>> No.30162031

Technically he can probably have his stats justified as absurd numbers of spells sustained with his infinite karma.

But honestly, he's just a blight on the setting.

>> No.30162085

Probably, I was thinking 4th.

>> No.30162090

He really can't, because the attribute caps are literally hardcaps on how high your stats can go. Unless you've got some weird shit going on like being a Cyberzombie, having a spirit posessing you, or take certain qualities.

And yes, he is. He has literally done nothing good for the story ever, and is just faggoty writerwank of the highest order.

>> No.30162098

How in the shit was this rifle ever approved for production, and how did they fuck it up so horribly?

>> No.30162112

2 to 1 chance it's sabotage.

>> No.30162117

Bad writers.

>> No.30162186

>2 to 1 chance it's sabotage.
Still doesn't make sense. The way this shit works is that, in any working arms company, you have guys that take the rifles from each batch and test fire them.

>> No.30162197

It's the bugs.

>> No.30162204

Hell. That's even how it works in Pakistan where they forge the gun components by hands and they're assembled by a mute with no legs.

>> No.30162271


Don't ask people to actually EXPLAIN how the Excalibur ever got released.

I'm still pissed that the name got used when I'm half-way through a game where I'd USED that name for an Ares superweapon they were working on and now the players won't stop joking about how they don't even need to take the job to sabotage it. It will fail on it's own.

>> No.30162455

I don't see what the issue is, it sounds exactly like the early M-16.

>> No.30162495

So, did people buying the M16 stop buying hamburgers, shoes and gadgets from the same company? Did they stop using their banking services and brought back their iThings?
The weapon thing is what Ares is most known for, but it's a minor part of a megacorporation. By no means will one failed weapon after a history of quality deadshooters impact their bottom line to such a degree that the idiot book makes it out to be.

>> No.30162537


The Early M-16 also wasn't so bad that only 1/6 shots had a CHANCE to fire right. Not in a hostile environment. In a perfect, factory environment, 5/6 times it doesn't work right.

How this was even REMOTELY thought of as a sell-able idea is beyond me.

>> No.30162623

I agree, fuckers fixed Detroit, FUCKING DETROIT! They're allowed to fuck up every once in a while.

>> No.30162660

You, I like you.
You lovable scamp of an OCP shill.

>> No.30162675

OCP is how you do it wrong, Ares Macrotechnology is how you do it right.

>> No.30162678

also I like their briefcase gun and nothing can stop me from buying more of them modded to look like giant bibles instead of briefcases

>> No.30162692

I was being a bit facetious. But now you've confirmed that you're indeed a megacorp fan!
Neo-Anarchists unite!

>> No.30162733

And now I have to buy and pump armorer, then convince my GM to let my character make the cross punisher.

>> No.30162739

Why stop there? Construct a knife gun, for great justice!

>> No.30162787

I also had combat axes modded to look like crosses to go with the bible gun on my throwing weapons adept

>> No.30162830

How do you even get on that thing?

>> No.30162849

By being an agile elf, most likely.
Futurevehicles don't need to make sense! It's TechMagic!

>> No.30162997

First time mage player here. What should I look out for? What are some things that make maging easy? How do I avoid getting geeked?

I'm mostly focused on Manipulation spells, having a mentor and a specialization in that field.

>> No.30163052

Advise is a bit dependant on edition.
I'll try to stay general.

a) A power focus is a nice thing to have, as are sustaining foci. Watch out for focus addiction, though.
b) Good drain attributes. If you throw around a lot of Mojo, you'll probably also want to learn a few spells of the Enhance Attribute kind.
c) Spirits. Seriously, have at LEAST one bound, because summoning on the fly can leave you seriously drained. Better: Have as many bound as you can, with different types for different tasks. Don't forget optional powers for higher ratings.
d) Healing. It's simply one of the best spells for utility and your group will love you for it. However, remember the order of operations: First medkit, then healing spell.
e) If you find yourself too slow, get Enhance Reaction (I think).

>> No.30163093

Whoops. 4th edition, my bad.

b) Enhance Attribute can only raise to the cap, can't it?
c) I'll get on that.

>> No.30163094

Oh, sorry. I forgot to write something about how to avoid getting geeked.

First: Don't look like a mage. Wear the same clothing and armor (if you can, physically) as the samurai. Have a firearm. Don't advertise your foci, instead have mundane things be foci: An earring. Sunglasses. A K-BAR knife. You get the picture.
This all being said: Magic is still noticable, so try to make it count. Take out the biggest, baddest target with a well-placed spell (which one you want is dependant on edition). Provide passive spell defense for your party if you're not sure what to do. Sometimes low rating spells are better than high rating ones, since they're less noticable.
Put an armor spell on your tank. He'll glow like shit and no one will know you're the source of the spell.

>> No.30163105

I thought this was a card game

>> No.30163121

Enhance Attribute can get you to your augmented cap. Meaning 9 if you're a human.
In 4E, Stunball/bolt are your bread and butter combat spells. You do not need anything else, period. If needs be, overcast them, to deal with high willpower targets.

It was, at one point, and there'll be a deckbuilding game in Dominion style at some point in the near future.

>> No.30163134

There's Netrunner if you were actually looking for a card game

>> No.30163139

>augmented cap
Oh shit, okay. Madre de dios.

Why are Stunball and Stunbolt good? Because they aim specifically at Willpower and ignore armour?

There's the 'concussive force' element in Street Magic that looks hella fun. Is it shit?

>> No.30163153

For the most part, if it looks hella fun you might as well use it. Because no matter how much you concentrate on crunch and efficiency, hella fun is always worth it.

>> No.30163162

How much can a Renraku Manservant carry long-distance?

>> No.30163167

I like using the laser spell from street magic

>> No.30163171

Because of their really really low drain.
You'll always want to cast them at uneven ratings, for much the same reason.
Also, targeting willpower is a plus for the usual encounters, and yes the armor ignoring part is very good, too.
One of the best things is though that you do a base damage of its rating + net hits. So, if you cast it at 7 or 9 (easily doable for starting characters) there's not many things that don't drop unconscious immediately.
Admittedly, it does nothing against drones or vehicles, so you might want to invest into something physical as well. But manipulation spells can take care of that.

Concussive force is neat, but it invariably comes with high drain values, as does every elemental spell.

No, there was a Shadowrun TCG out there, too.
And there will be, according to announcements from 2012, but no hard info is forthcoming so far.

>> No.30163180

Well, yeah, but only one is current, right?

>> No.30163187

>only one
by which I meant netrunner

>> No.30163190


That's Netrunner these days. Great art for any shadowrun player but a different game.

Mind you, you can make some easy parallels:

Jinteki: Most of the Japanocorps, with a lean towards Renraku.
Haas-Bioroid: Saeder-Krupp
Weyland: Ares will shoot the shit out of you.


Oddly enough, my current mage? Is so blatantly a witch it's not funny and so goth she shits bats.

It's a distraction. She's actually a Nosferatu with an extensive wig collection (No one is going to be surprised that the bright green hair isn't real). No one is going to be looking at the woman in the leather witches outfit with an honest-to-hecate pointed hat, platform boots and a broomstick and going 'That's a vampire'.

That and she is genuinely a huge fan of the Goth look. Not needing to breath makes corsets ALMOST practical.


Stunball/Bolt are good for that and also because they are cheap as fucking chips. So you can overcast them and blow heads off without a heap being able to stop you.

>> No.30163217

I don't know what you mean with current. There is no actively supported SR TCG at the moment.

Netrunner isn't really SR. It's a good cyberpunk TCG, as far as I know, but it doesn't have magical elves. Or am I completely wrong here?

I'd shoot your witch, just in case it's a double blind. But I like the idea anyways, apart from her being a virus victim (but that's a personal gripe, so don't take this as me trying to tell you you're having fun wrong, please).

>> No.30163228

The GM's given elemental spells a -3 Drain value as a houserule, which helps a little.

Oh man, now I want to play a danmaku mage.

>> No.30163250

yep that's what I'm playing right now, they're even shinto tradition.

>> No.30163255

Phew, that's a hefty reduction, and possibly gamebreaking. But if it works, it works.
In this case, I'd advise you to get at least one spell with electricity, against vehicles and riggers.
And get the concussive thing. Seriously, it's fun There are even combo spells out there.

>> No.30163266

>I'd shoot your witch, just in case it's a double blind. But I like the idea anyways, apart from her being a virus victim (but that's a personal gripe, so don't take this as me trying to tell you you're having fun wrong, please).

HOW DARE YOU. YOU MONSTER! I AM OFFENDED BY YOUR NOT LIKING OF THIS SITUATION! (Due to the internet being really bad at conveying tone: I'm joking, I'm joking)

Yeah, it's not a perfect solution but it's one that lets her get by in day to day life. She'd rather people think she's a mage who's heavily into her tradition than go looking for pointy teeth and such.

That and she's content with playing dead if she takes a bullet and she thinks the team can handle it.

>> No.30163278

> Playing dead if you take a bullet
This is also good advice to avoid getting shot at more.
Once you're knocked down, it's easy to play possum. And if not, it's a free action to just drop (although I'd probably let people unaccustomed to hitting the dirt roll for Composure first).

>> No.30163283

>combo spells
I'm starting to get Magicka ideas here with doom mines and electricity lasers. Where are these spells?

>> No.30163346


I'm the GM of the game that I'm 90% sure that guy is joining.

I've found that -3 is pretty reasonable as a whole. As it means that a mage can reliably throw spells at = magic without worry about drain most of the time, while pushing it up into overcasting is generally not lethally bad for them.

After all, if your combat spells can be safely replaced with 'I own an Ares Redline/Shotgun with S&S', they probably shouldn't be risking you damage too much.

Then again, I also swapped all the Elemental Wall/Cloud spells from Manipulation to Combat. As I felt that manipulation is an overloaded school, while Combat should at least have all the methods to actually damage a dude with magic if it's going to be that small a school.

Some day I intend to sit down and redo the schools (One of my main ideas was to put a lot of the defensive spells like Mana Barriers in Combat. Combat isn't just hurting, it's also preventing yourself from dying. So Manipulation gets a lot of fine control/modification spells, while Combat is what you want for putting up things that rely on raw force to just flat blow something up/save something.)

>> No.30163361

Street Magic, sidebar on p. 168 and mostly combat spells, Firewater / Napalm is an example given on p. 164. No reason you can't create a Thunderbolt spell (lightning+concussive, e.g.), too.
I'd advise you to take the Arcana skill for spell design, if you want to play around with this stuff.

>> No.30163408

Your argument is sound, but I'd advise you to consider that a pistol or a laser is a very one-sided tool. The biggest strength of magic users lies in their versatility. There are spells for almost every situation (and they only cost 5 karma and a bit of time to pick up), and there should be an opportunity cost, or they'll outshine the mundane archetypes even more than they usually do.

That being said: It's your game, and if it works, it works. This is just intended to be a bit of food for thought, and I applaud your intention of making stunballbolt less of a cookie cutter and elemental spells more useful. SR5 did that, after all, and it wasn't completely unfounded.

>> No.30163472

Stop threading my threads, damnit.

You cannot imagine how gleeful I currently am right now.

>> No.30163516


Oh yeah. Stunbolt gets NO cheapening. It's enough of a wonderful toy on it's own. Part of it was an intention to make OTHER combat spells worth the effort. Rather than combat being 'That school that has stunbolt' and nothing else.

Part of my logic is the idea that I kinda wanted every school to be fun to play for a specialist as any other. If someone sits down and grabs a combat spec and a combat spell mentor, I want them to have just as much fun as the guy who sat down and made manipulation spec, manipulation boosting mentor.

Yes, it does mean that a mage can do more regardless of spec with combat spells...but I personally feel that if it's one of the 4 overarching schools of an archetype, it should be pretty decent.

You are however right that Mages can be rather a toolbox and that should impact them.


Never! I made this thread, I can read whatever I want!

>> No.30163551

You have, of course, considered that corresponding spirits to the school may also get a boost, or work differently, I assume?

>> No.30163583


With a modification, do you mean?

I have been tempted to do a little to separate what the spirit MEANS beyond 'What it can sustain' but I'm always worried that as rather a fan of mages, I'd be sitting there just making them better.

Mages don't need better spirits.

>> No.30163645

Spirits correspond to the magical schools, so the obvious difference would be that shamans have beast spirits and hermetics fire spirits but these are of course, not the limit. Think of Zoroastrians with their high powered Guardian Spirits, e.g.
Aid Sorcery and Aid Study, as well as Spell Sustaining can make a big difference when a spell is changing its school. Not saying that it would be gamebreaking, but certainly something to keep in mind.

>what the spirit MEANS
Would you mind elaborating a bit?

>Mages don't need better spirits.
No, they don't.

>> No.30163682


>Would you mind elaborating a bit?

If it's a Combat Spirit of an Illusion Spirit etc. Basically: I've been tempted to make spirits weaker/more limited based on their base type, with a bit added based on what school it meas for the mage.

So a Fire-Healing spirit won't 100% line up with a Fire-Combat for instance. However, that would require a fair bit of work and would require me to work out where to weaken spirits so that it's not just a flat buff for them.

>> No.30163701

I'm not entirely clear what you mean by that.
Are you suggesting to make spirits able to undertake tasks out of their corresponding school (or element, as it were)?
This should already be covered by the powers they have access to.

>> No.30163726


No, I'm talking about Abilities/Stats/Skills mostly. So reduce the base stats/skills of spirits in exchange for the Spell Type giving them a bit of a boost.

Like no free unarmed combat/exotic weapon prof for Health spirits. They get free first aid instead.

>> No.30163936

This guy here again.

If I combined both Water and Blast elements for some kind of hydraulic fuckbeam, I'd end up getting forcex2+damage calculations for knockdown.

I am horribly disappointed that there are no associated rules for knockback.

>> No.30163988


GM here. I'm always up for cool things if the situation allows for it.

Anyway, that sort of thing would put a citymaster on it's back at a decent force.

>> No.30163990

I see. Seems to be a lot of work, and give spirits more versatility in any case, though.

It should be pretty moot anyways. As soon as someone takes damage from the spell, he's usually knocked on his ass. Unless it's a troll with a balance tail.

>> No.30164020


>> No.30164172


>I see. Seems to be a lot of work, and give spirits more versatility in any case, though

Yeah. Hence why I've never gotten around to it. Effort.

Oddly enough, part of the idea was reducing the versatility of individual spirits. Like, if you compare Spirits and Sprites...

Sprites are potent but often have serious inabilities to work outside their area of expertise.

Spirits are potent but it's because they are all-rounders stat-wise with all of them being good at combat. They often have a limited, at best, ability to work within the area (Health, Manipulation, Illusion, Combat) they are supposed to be tied to unless it's combat.

So part of it was making a Health spirit a worse combatant but a better medic so that you can't just throw all the Spirits you have bound into combat.

>> No.30164216

Indeed the cubli is more unsettling

>> No.30164563

Okay. Seriously. Is this thing imported into our reality by cenobites or did the Swiss just have a need to construct a monster cube?
This is horrible and needs to be killed with fire. And explosives, for good measure

>> No.30164659


>Is this thing imported into our reality by cenobites or did the Swiss just have a need to construct a monster cube?

Where do you think the Cenobites ordered it from?

>> No.30164683

From somewhere where you don't need eyes if you go there?

>> No.30164956

I've seen you guys post some nifty tables before. Any of ya'll have any tables for 5e technomancers?

>> No.30165753

So 4e (or 5e for that matter), Datajacks (and in-head commlinks).

What exactly can they and can't they do? Does the DNI let you communicate with your gear at a level that obviates the need for, say, a screen/imagelink? Does it let you bypass the smartlink end of a smartgun system? Or do you still need cybereyes or an installed imagelink of some sort to get the information?

>> No.30165786


The way I rule it, an implanted commlink (or a commlink datajacked or skinlinked to your head) means you don't NEED screens/image links/cybereyes etc. You do still need a smartlink for smartguns, though, because all a smartgun does is send information to a smartlink program/hardware bit to be processed and displayed for you.

>> No.30165803

I don't know what you mean by "bypass the smartlink end of a smartgun system", but if you want more than a one-way command connection to your gear (i.e. have a display of information, such as text messages or gun status), you'll need an image link of some sort.
Of course, that's really cheap to have in goggles or contacts.

>> No.30165807


In 5th having DNI allows you to perform a couple of actions faster than if you don't. Also Im pretty sure it alleviates any need to have glasses/eyes and gloves to interact with AR, the DNI will be able to stimulate the visual centre of your brain to give you AR at will, and you can simply concentrate to give mental commands(though most people still find it easier/less distracting to wave their hands around in the air)

You still need a smartlink on the gun, which can be wirelessly or wiredly connected to your datajack/comlink

>> No.30165832

No visual stimulation of anything happens. What you're describing requires more than DNI, namely VR.

>> No.30165892

Perhaps I worded it poorly. 4e, a smartgun system consists of two parts. The first is the smartgun modification or accessory on or in the firearm; the second is the smartlink modification to an imagelink in glasses, goggles, contacts, eyes, etc.

>Also Im pretty sure it alleviates any need to have glasses/eyes and gloves to interact with AR, the DNI will be able to stimulate the visual centre of your brain to give you AR at will, and you can simply concentrate to give mental commands(though most people still find it easier/less distracting to wave their hands around in the air)

See, that's the way I've always played it but it's the sort of thing I wish the book elaborated on.

>> No.30165907

Er, the commands bit is how I played it. No visual center stimulation because that would be insanely complicated to pull off with any reasonable precision, so I always have it run to an imagelink in skinklinked visual stuff or cybereyes.

It also makes sense with how datajacks are (fluffwise) just a touch more popular than cybereyes, so they'd go really well together.

>> No.30166154

And you want to avoid the need for the glasses-part?
Nope, you need more than DNI for that. Smartguns are specialist systems.
DNI does not let you see anything, on its own. It just lets you control connected devices (read: subscribed wirelessly to your brainlink or datajack) via 'telepathic' command. For visual, or audio, or haptic feedback you need more equipment, in whatever variety available.

>> No.30166184

Related subject: How exactly does a skinlink work?

>> No.30166185

Is there anything were otaku are stated or are they mechanically the same as deckers or something

>> No.30166193


A few editions too late, mate. They were statted in one of the arcology books in 3rd, IIRC.

>> No.30166207

yea meant to type any edition where, I should sleep or something apparently they're in Virtual Realities 2.0 and Renraku
Arcology: Shutdown.

>> No.30166240


There you go then. Realistically, they're all gone. Or transitioned into technomancers, and the rules for those are in the core book.

>> No.30166261

An implanted comlink gets rid of the needs for gloves or the scrollwheel, but you still need cyberears or earbuds and cybereyes or glasses.

Mechanically or in fluff? Mechanically they, in 4e, essentially let you link your gear to your PAN without them broadcasting. Granted the broadcast range of most gear is like 3 feet so unless you are literally having sex with the enemy hacker's meat body while he is dived in hacking you it doesn't matter, but it can add safety in crowded areas. In 5e it has less utility, as your comlink is less of an absolute wall to your gear if you route things to the broader internet through it in 5e (Though it is MUCH easier to defend against hacks as a whole) and more gear likes being online a lot. Sometimes without really good reason (Extendable baton and hydraulic limbs, I am looking at you! You can't even pretend to have a reason for it like smartlink or enhanced perception glasses!)

>> No.30166273

>GMing shadowrun game.
>Party technomancer is named Sibyl
>Finally bother to look into stormfront and upcoming releases

Oh what the fuck...

>> No.30166283


What the hell IS a skinlink? How does it function? What is it DOING?

>> No.30166303

In fluff it runs a small electric charge through your skin that can transmit data. Think of it like turning the surface of your skin into a cord.

Actually a family member of mine has a company making a touchscreen that essentially uses a skinlink to allow 4 users to use it at once.

>> No.30166306

Eh yea I just think otaku are a lot cooler in the fluff than technomancers

>> No.30166311

Since we're on the topic of tech, in SR4 RAW, does having an implanted commlink obviate the need for a datajack? Or does the implanted commlink not also cover the datajack's functionality? I can't seem to figure it out one way or another conclusively.

>With skinlink, a device is adapted to send and receive data transmitted through the electrical field on the surface of metahuman skin.

>> No.30166341

A datajack is basically just a DNI port anyways, and is also wireless enabled.
So, an implanted commlink can fulfill many of its functions, except (obviously) directly slotting chips or pluggin in a cable.

>> No.30166356

I don't need trodes if my commlink's in a cyberlimb, do I? And will AR gloves and a subvocal mic still work?

>> No.30166389

A datajack allows you to make a DNI link with crap. A DNI link is worlds above a simple wifi signal, and at any rate doing so would be fucking insane for multiple reasons.

You don't need AR gloves once you can work your 'link via thought, though for comfort you might. Subvocal mics are still required. Simsense is generally not thought projection.

It does not. The comlink has a DNI with you, but to DNI with other objects or slot chips and software requires a datajack. Essentially you can control your comlink mentally, and then control things through the comlink, but you may still want to plug right into something else at points.

>> No.30166406

they seem pretty odd though idk if this is par for course in 2e

>> No.30166415

I believe you still need trodes or a simrig with an implanted comlink. You can control it mentally with DNI but it's still interfacing. Simsense is some weird ultrasound bombardment of the brain that isn't part of a normal link.

>> No.30166468

No, since you already have DNI with the commlink, there is no need for trodes. However, if you want to access the matrix in full VR, you'll need a sim module as well. AR gloves aren't necessary either, but the subvocal mic should work, if paired with the commlink.

Incorrect. A simrig is merely a sim module with recording capabilities. An implanted commlink can be controlled via DNI, so there is no need for further control mechanisms like AR gloves or trodes (which are, essentially, also only a DNI port). You cannot read out from the commlink without further hardware though, and for full VR access, you also need more equipment, either implanted or with you.

>> No.30166494

Ah, what do you need for full VR access if not a simrig?

>> No.30166514

Me and my friends studied the new book for hours and we decided we're all just just too fucking retarded for this game /tg/.

>> No.30166519

Just a sim module, either cold or hot (the latter being illegal) and a way of DNI control. DNI control is included with most implants (wired reflexes, e.g., to activate them), as it is with an implanted commlink. Other possibilities are trode nets, nanopaste trodes or datajacks.

>> No.30166535

I herfed and confused simrigs and sim modules.

>> No.30166541

Sorry to hear that. Do you maybe have any questions we can clarify here?

>> No.30166550

Oh. And of course, a commlink to actually access the full glory of virtual reality matrix!

It happens to everyone.

>> No.30166563

No so. The implantation means you can control it mentally. Of course you'd still need an image link, etc, but everything else is provided. Ultrasonics are needed only so far as they're external. You can go directly to the brain with an implanted one.

It's why implanted commlink users sometimes were mistaken for Technomancers. No apparent sign of gear, and yet they were clearly using a computer.


A sim module. A simrig is for recording your sensorium.

Don't be discouraged. It's easy once you've learned it, if that doesn't sound tautological. What're you having the most difficulty with?

>> No.30166576

Right. As was pointed out, my error was confusing the rig with the module.

>> No.30166598

Steal the fluff, go play FATE/GURPS/other? (I actually recommend this to a lot of people who don't have the time to pick up every unique fucking system that comes their way and have the time to delve into the mathemagical intricacies of optimization.)

>> No.30166615

>and don't have the time*

>> No.30166616


Yeah, I was writing while that was posted, only refreshed after I submitted.

Both offer pretty different experiences though. FATE certainly does.

>> No.30166700

Of course, a simrig also works, and it gives you the benefit of being able to create your own simsense movie while you're surfing the 'net!

>> No.30166716

Or to allow the running team to review the run if something freaky happens.

>> No.30166727

Yes, or have Case ride you with his Ono-Sendai.
Wait. Wrong universe.

>> No.30166787

>implying Lofwyr and Hestaby are enemies
>laughing conspiracy theorists.jpg

>> No.30167001

What are the top languages in Seattle?

>> No.30167023

english and japanese with the local dialect being a mix of the 2 called cityspeak

>> No.30167081

New to shadowrun, a friend of mine just got some 4e books and wants to try it out. How would I go about making a big guy with big guns? I'm learning as I go.

>> No.30167130

Ork or troll as metatype, cyberware to make you faster and shoot better, Heavy Weapons skill and ... buy a big gun.

>> No.30167206

>people actually believe that the Excalibur actually was responsible for Ares' fall from grace
Stop that. You're being ridiculous.

The Excalibur fiasco was only a symptom of the true cause behind Ares' drop: internal dissent.

Knight, Vogel, and whoever was in charge Gavilan Ventures at any point since the Crash 2.0 had spent so much time dividing up Ares that it was practically 3 tenuously connected AA-rated Corps at the worst times.

The Excalibur would never have been released if the people running the Corp had taken some time from plotting against each other to actually run the company, but they didn't.

That is what really caused the drop from #6 AAA to #7 AAA. And they ARE still an AAA. The idea that Ares is somehow doomed because they made one bad product is not reflected in any way by the actual fluff in Storm Front, and the people who say it is are wrong.

The Excalibur just served as a convenient excuse so that the Executives didn't have to admit that they had screwed up.

>> No.30167221

Would you rather run for EVO against Ares, or for Ares against EVO?

>> No.30167249


Are you in our Twin Cities group? Cause those are basically the dueling corps in our setting.

>> No.30167268

Cool. My group has MCT and Ares duking it out

>> No.30167287

Maybe re-read the Ares chapter in Storm Front, as much as it may hurt. It _starts_ with discussing how bad the Excalibur is and how Ares poster boy Sticks is fed up with their antics and mad as hell and not going to take it anymore.
Let me quote some choice pieces for you:
"There is this mindset in the Ares customer that the corp’s
branding speaks for itself. A product is good because it’s Ares,
and Ares is good because of its products. Circular reasoning, for
sure, but there it is. Now one major wrench has been thrown into
the gearbox, breaking that circle. Consumers expected the Ares
Excalibur to be good—and for a short while post-launch, people
believed just that—solely by virtue of Ares being in the name.
When common knowledge of the failures started making its
way out of the shadows and into public consciousness, that once
bedrock-solid reputation fell apart like a house of very flimsy cards."

"The problem wasn’t so much that people were complaining
about the Excalibur. The real root of the issue was that everyone
knew about it. Even Joe Average, who wouldn’t normally even
consider buying a firearm, let alone a battle rifle, started taking
notice of this spectacle and raised an eyebrow. Mr. Average, who
was once a loyal buyer of Ares consumer goods began eyeing
competitors’ products a bit more closely."

So, while Storm Front certainly doesn't state that Ares goes head over heels over this bad product, the first 8 Pages of the chapter try their best to persuade the reader of it, while the rest of the chapter mainly deals with a combination of the next big thing and the troubles you mentioned. So it certainly _seems_ that way, not solely by virtue of being the biggest part of the chapter.
It's bad writing, in more than one way.

>> No.30167288


No, I was just curious about /tg/'s opinions on such a scenario. Of the games I play in, there's a big evo/aztech/renraku three-way going on, and hte other two aren't far along enough yet for us to see. In the one I run, it's a big ares-horizon-evo-aztech clusterfuck.

>> No.30167321

Whoever pays better.

Unrelated: Bump limit reached.

>> No.30167364

Depends on the Dragon. There are a couple of descriptions spread around various books. The Dragon Urubia bought an apartment building in the Redmon slums of Seattle and carved out a big living space/party area out of the 4 top floors.

>It's bad writing, in more than one way.
Which is why you make the best you can of it. Sticks, with his long-time Ares loyalties, was obviously feeling betrayed and allowed his personal emotions to get into what he wrote on the topic.

>> No.30167373

> The best I can
Exactly. Storm Front is not happening in my world. At least not apart from the chapter on Prop 23.

>> No.30167392

New thread here:

>> No.30167768


>> No.30169166

Wrong, good sir. Says in the book that's what DNI's do.

>> No.30171350

Use the rules for knockdown. Shouldn't be that hard.

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