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[ERROR] No.29803352 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

So is the Haruspex the 6e terrible unit to go along with the Tyranid's 5e terrible unit, the Pyrovore?

>> No.29803424

>>29803352
no, it more corresponds to the 5th ed harpy or carnifex; on first glance it looks almost worth while. the pyrovore has never been deceptive in how awful and useless it is

>> No.29804005

>>29803424
I don't know, the Haruspex is prettty awful at first glance

>> No.29804134

>>29804005
well in concept a unit that deals wounds when wounded, regains wounds from wounds dealt, gets extra attacks from wounds dealt, sounds pretty good. a pyrovore is shit from all angles

>> No.29804166

Who the fuck decided our CC supermonster should only have 3 attacks and WS 3? What in the actual fuck.

>> No.29804203

>>29804134
Recovers one wound, gains like, almost no extra attacks and only on the charge, WS3. The best thing he has is acid blood

>> No.29804227

>>29804166
Cruddace

>> No.29804242

It's a shame this guy under performs, I field him when me and my mates have 5000 pointers just because (although a fair few people aren't a fan) I like the model and the fluff.

>> No.29804289

>>29804242
The model is awesome in my opinion

but the Haruspex is just a terrible unit

>> No.29804292

>tfw you occasionally still see an anon saying "GW deliberately overpowers new models to sell them!"

>> No.29804364

At least he's decent at tank popping? If he gets there?

>> No.29804440

>>29804364
So is a 120 pt carnifex.

>> No.29804473

>>29803352
What would this guy need to be a good model worth its points?
A much higher WS and more attacks?

>> No.29804491

>>29804473
More WS, more attacks, possible re-rolls
2+ save

>> No.29804542

>>29804491
im saying rerolls misses aswell

>> No.29804555

>>29804473
WS 5 and A 5 would be about right. Hell, I'd even be fine with dropping him to S5 too.

>> No.29804560

>>29804473
ws 5, 5 attacks, access to a 2+ save, cheaper access to regen

>> No.29804582

>>29804542
Maybe shred to re-roll wounds

I'd pay like 200 pts for an actual fucking assault beast just to see the other side freak out about it

>> No.29804756

>>29803352
It should have moved like a beast

>> No.29804770

WS5 A5 Monstrous Beast

>> No.29804944

>>29804756
>>29804770
i'd be down for that

>> No.29805100

>>29804756
NO! WRONG! BAD!
those changes would have made it fun, functional, and powerful unit.
nids are not allowed to have those three things.
god, why dont you leave the design decisions to gw.
they have a proven track record and they know what is good for the game.

>> No.29805135

2d6 attacks

>> No.29805222

>>29805135
also acceptable

>> No.29805314

>>29804756
Wait, hang on, I haven't seen the codex... is it a monstrous creature? Does it not move any faster than the bipeds?

Ouch.

>> No.29805332

>>29805314
YUP

>> No.29805375

>>29805332
Man, when people say GW hates Nids... it's getting hard to disagree. What were the rules for those Chaos quadrupeds?

>> No.29805583

>>29805375
GW is s o stupid Nids and SM are their two most marketable armies they should be pushing them like there's no tomorrow.

>> No.29805677

When I read all those Tyranid threads I remember what it was like when I got my hands on the previous Chaos Marines codex.

Haven't read or played against the new Nids yet but if it's true than dudes, I feel for you.

>> No.29805870

>>29805100
lmao, thanks!

>> No.29805924

>>29805677
Its just.. So enraging

>> No.29805978

>>29804166
That actually makes sense because nids are mindless killers and such.
The problem is they can't fucking understand you need to drop points if you are going to that.
Nid MCs are such a joke compared to daemons it's not even funny.

>> No.29806033

>>29805978
they're not mindless killers.

Stop thinking that.

They're an intelligent hive-mind, a single tyranid is like a cell in a human body, a hive fleet is like a fist, they're a single super organism that is intelligent beyond human comprehension, so much so that overhearing the hive communicating drives most psykers mad.

>> No.29806079

>>29806033
I'm talking about a single creature. They work like an advanced machine together, but a single one slashing at the enemy? They have as much individual though as white blood cells attacking a germ.

>> No.29806089

>>29805677
With CSM 6e, I was mostly just disappointed at it.

With Nids 6e, I am rather cross with GW and fear for my orks.

>> No.29806100

>>29806079
And they should be EXCELLENT at their job. It should be excellent with its 'ws'.

>> No.29806150

>>29806079
>One Tyranid is only as effective as one white blood cell, so one Tyranid should suck and cost tons of points, logically

If your immune system were pound-for-pound less effective than every disease out there like the Tyranids are compared to 40k's other races, you might as have AIDS. You'd die from a cold.

>> No.29806210

>>29806100
Those that are menatly capable of fencing or fighting smart (tyrants) already have insane WS.
I can't imagine hormagaunts parrying blows and countering with their claws. They just slash wildly like stupid animals they are, and that's WS3.

>> No.29806251

>>29806210
And a Haruspex is not a Hormagaunt

(Hormagaunts used to have WS4, because it reflected that they were BADASS assault units)

>> No.29806281

>>29806251
Yeah, Haruspex is a FEEDING organism that knows how to eat shit, either moving or not.

>> No.29806323

>>29806281
Yeah. Its really good at it too.

Thena gain, Carnifexes are WS3 too, because reasons.

>> No.29806333

>>29806210
Theyre meant to be like perfectly evolved super hunters designed straight up from the first cell to be an assault unit. It doesn't reflect as well now :(

>> No.29806352

>>29806210
Fuck you cruddace, WS isn't indicative of LOL NOBUR HONOL SWOLDMANSHIP. A hormagaunt might not parry and dodge but its sheer mindless rage and ferocity would get hits through anyway

>> No.29806392

>>29806352
>mindless rage and ferocity would get hits through anyway
Yeah, no. Lots of Attacks does that, not WS.

>> No.29806396

>>29806352
Exactly, its to represent how good they are at FIGHTING in close combat

>> No.29806430

>>29805677
It started in 5th when Robin Cruddace made it his apparent goal to get Nidzilla under control or something.

Nidzilla was under control by 5th edition anyway. Thanks to his tank-heavy Guard codex and new rules that favored armored divisions, even casual army lists were packing krak missiles, meltas, and stuff that would turn Nidzilla into a hot, bountiful, space-lobster dinner. As it was, the thing keeping Tyranid heavy support alive was the availability of 2+ saves, which upped the cost of the carnifex enough to force it out of the elite slot, per the rules.

But Cruddace decided that bugs needed to be easier to kill, so he got rid of the 2+ save so lighter, cheaper weapons could kill Tyranid MCs. He also got rid of their Eternal Warrior rules and other benefits the bugs got from being in synapse. The No Retreat rule made fearless a liability for light infantry since Tyranids always doubled their losses thanks to it. On top of all that, he also increased the base cost of a carnifex from around 90 points before upgrades to 180 points with +2 attacks or something. So he nerfed the carnifex HARD.

He also confined the Nids' anti-armor capabilities to the elite section, forcing players to buy nine hive guard or risk going entirely without an answer to armored divisions. Warp blast was also helpful, but totally nullified by a single librarian since the 5th codex had the Marine psychic hood cancelling out everything within 24" of the librarian.

I mean, it was just one thing after the next. Every single option was cut off here or there. The Nid codex lost all flavor too - Cruddace all their biomorph options so that the players wouldn't find a good biomorph combination that Cruddace wasn't expecting. All anything got was the option for Furious Charge or Poison. Kind of helpful, but not very dynamic.

Now the 6th edition codex comes out, and the only problems that have been answered are thanks to changes in the core rulebook or thanks to other codices changing.

>> No.29806475

>>29806430
Reminder that 6e also fucked us harder by removing psychic powers, no allies, ect.

>> No.29806804

>>29806430
The whole point of the 4e codex was that you could have a swarmy army or a MC army too

>> No.29806936

I think it should only have one attack, but it is always precision. On a 6, maybe make it instant death so whatever is latches onto just gets swallowed.

>> No.29806963

>>29806936
What? No thats retarded, and thats what the red terror is for.

>> No.29807114

>>29806936
Thats what its tongue thing basically is

>> No.29807209

>>29806804
The 4th edition codex made Tyranids maybe one of the most flexible armies in the game. You could give warriors wings, a 12" charge range, anti-tank weapons, rending claws, anti-infantry weapons of various function and power, +3 armor, +1 strengh, +1 BS - whatever. Whatever you needed, you could build it! You were free to make the army you wanted to play!

And then Cruddace said, "Aw, Tyranids are so BS! I'm going to make their army balanced!"

He cut out all the options they had and now the game's LEAST versatile army, the slowest-moving army, the least tactically flexible, and there's nothing to make up for all that. He didn't give Nids a single thing to balance out all the weaknesses he added in 5th or 6th edition.

The whole point is just that they're weaker than the armies he does like to play. It seems like that's all he's doing for the codex.

>> No.29807429

>>29807209
Which was the whole point, Tyranids are the most adaptable species, they overcome, they change, they -evolve-

And current nids have none of that

>> No.29807432

>>29806430
>On top of all that, he also increased the base cost of a carnifex from around 90 points before upgrades to 180 points with +2 attacks or something. So he nerfed the carnifex HARD.

85 points to 160. Though the 5th edition Carnifex came with two sets of scything talons by default and had enhanced senses built in, but still an excessive jump. Ld reduced from 10 to 7 as well. The increase in attacks was really an across-the-board thing to compensate for scything talons no longer granting extra attacks.

>> No.29807599

>>29807432
There was probably also a pts increase in there for brooding fexes so they could all take 1 slot rather than each taking a HS slot

>> No.29807694

>>29807432
My mistake. I haven't looked at the codices in a while. But just LOOK at the 4th edition codex compared to the 5th. They lost eighteen options on the Nids' premier unit! And you know what's really awful? All those options were things people really took.

Tusks? +2 attacks on the charge. Useful for CC carnifex!
Tail weapons? Extra attacks! Great!
Symbiotic rippers? Neat. Back in 4th it doubled how many units they counted as, so it let them break combat more efficiently.
Options for +1 T, 2+ save, +1 wound. All wonderful. Useful. You'd pay for those.
Flesh hooks? Gave you full initiative when attacking in difficult terrain and also allowed the carnifex to climb impassable terrain! People used to pull a shooting carnifex up on platforms with that!
They use to get lash whips to slow down enemies! Amazing! The carnifex is slow and it can use something like that!

This is the story of the entire 4th edition codex compared to 5th and 6th. You go from having this dynamic, interesting useful codex full of options, flavors, and flexibility, to just the blandest shit in the entire game. 4th edition Necrons were the only ones who had it worse, and now that we have Newcrons, Nids are simply the most boring army with the fewest options and the most tactical drawbacks.

>> No.29807904

>>29807694
Seriously... I laughed when I saw 'Wargear list' in 6th ed codex.

>Biomorphs
>A model may take up to one of each of >the following:
>- Toxin sacs - 10 pts
>- Acid blood 2 - 15 pts
>- Adrenal glands - 15 pts
>- Regeneration - 30 pts

It's outright pathetic to even make a list out of that. Were they even trying? (...yeah, of course they weren't..)

>> No.29807968

>>29807694
>>29807432
>>29807904
I cry evrytiem ;_;
and all the retards on the forums keep insisting that the book is great and people should just adapt or deal with it or sell their nids.

I can't believe people actually think that this an acceptable set of rules for the Tyranids.

>> No.29808065

>>29807968
Tyranids! The most flexible race!

Worthless relics!

Most of our weapons suck!

Our best shooting weapons are str6 ap -, hooray

>> No.29808329

>>29807968
The only adapting with a codex so bland is to find the one netlist that can hold up on the table well enough to win when the dice are in your favor.

It's not just that you can't customize the army, but also the fact that synapse rules and bubble-buffs force your army to deploy in the same way every game. That means that no matter what you do, you'll always be deploying in the same way and moving the army in the same fashion. If you try to creative and split into kill teams or something, the smaller teams will lose synapse coverage and turn stupid.

They're just such a boring army now.

>> No.29808366

>>29808065

but wait, Warriors are now substantially improved because they can now pay 4 points each for frag grenades!

I am accepting that he also deemed GGenestealers too overpowered to be allowed such options also. Cruddace truly is a god amongst rules designers!

Who needs 2+ saves in an edition where close combat units are king?! They can charge up to 12" because of the improved, genius game design of rolling 2d6!! It would be ridiculous to think that people buy more than one heavy weapon such as a missile launcher in an army! Use cover to get into the right place to charge! Don't complain when your opponent out-skills you and your army dies due to those dirty cheesers using OTHER codexes!

Tyranids are meant to lose in the background material anyway! I know they we're just forging the narrative every time so that I can have fun with my Tau, Space Marine and Eldar friends! I want to see my lovingly built and painted army crumble to dust any time my opponent looks at them funny! I just have to adapt and deal with the consequences of the army I CHOSE to play!

Who needs options when we get all the benefits of streamlining and removing needless, expensive upgrades that don't allow us to buy more models!
Truly Cruddace has blessed us with this offering in his latest masterpiece!

Amen.

>> No.29808519

You think Cruddace made all these decisions on his own?

Nah. Look I'm sure he'd love to put tons of mutant shit in there, but codex is limited for space. Also, there is a lack of models for these mutants, and GW doesnt like rules with no models.

>> No.29808558

>>29808519
You're right. Its not like they jillion optoins in the 4th ed dex were covered by a jillion options in the carnifex kit

And converting models? That'd be a hobby thing. We can't have any hobbies happening

>> No.29808642

>>29808519
I'm sure anything he'd put in there would just be more overpriced that fill a role the Tyranids already overcompensate for. Some kind of anti-infantry gun that is more expensive than everyone else's guns and also does less damage.

Or how about those rules where units outside of synapse kill themselves? That's awesome, isn't it. Because mindless beasts are never known to have even the smallest semblance of pack instinct.

I mean, there was that whole Anphelion Project book they released that explained how Tyranids outside of synapse were still able to come up with trial and error strategies to escape captivity and breed actual synapse creatures, but fuck that. This edition, they'd just eat each other and be impossible to study because they're so hopelessly suicidal.

>> No.29808707

>>29804292
>it's new armies, not the models.

>> No.29809020

>>29808642
People forget that every Tyranid is a biologically engineered killing machine, they're not stupid beasts.

>> No.29809807

>>29805375
The Maulerfiend moved like a beast.

>> No.29809882

> All this fucks wanting high ws tyranid models
It's like you don't understand your own army.

>> No.29810073

>>29809882
What. You think Tyranids should die by the droves and lose close combat all the time?

It's a dice game. They don't have to have high weapon skill, but they at least need to move quickly and have enough attacks to make an impact. If they aren't going to move quickly, then they need to be tough.

The army is squishy, not skilled, lacking in versatility, short-ranged, too expensive (if gaunts are going to cost as much as Guardsmen then it would be nice if they could at least fight in close combat better than them), slow, predictable, given a weakness in the form of synapse requirements, and full of large targets. They don't have any compensating factors to make up for all of this.

Other than being the always losing Cobra Command of 40k, how do you think Tyranids are supposed to work?

>> No.29810128

>>29808519
>and GW doesnt like rules with no models.
Not anymore

>> No.29810144

>>29808642
Even Old One Eye's background is proof of leaderless Tyranids gathering together. In fact, I think the whole alpha leader thing was only added in 5E (and carried over into the new book), since OOE's original entry was really short and vague.

On the other hand, the Tyranids of the Leviathan tendril invading Tarsis Ultra started attacking each other when their synapse was removed by that plague or whatever... which is something the new codex seems to have actually omitted.

>> No.29810199

>>29809882
For that matter, higher weapon skill is a way to make the units more effective in combat without making them unexpectedly too effective with good luck. If you give hormagaunts three attacks, +1 on the charge, then being swarmed by thirty of them could get ridiculous.

On the other hand, give them 2 attacks, +1 on the charge, and then have a much lower potential for damage while still being more effective at combat.

Cruddace is an idiot if he's preventing Nids from having good WS because they're "dumb animals" or whatever. It's just making the models weaker without giving any options to compensate, because having three attacks would be a way larger advantage than having a WS of 4.

>> No.29810266

>>29810144
It makes sense if the Tyranids form packs and fight each other as a group. They lose cohesion and don't know that there's enough resources for everyone, so they fight and eat one another. That's fine.

But when a pack of twelve gaunts turns on itself and eats its own members, that's just stupid. That's not fluffly and it gimps the army. Why would they do that? There's obviously plenty of food on the other side of the table.

If you were compelled to always run towards the nearest enemy, then that makes sense, but not having your units kill themselves.

>> No.29810467

>>29810128
They were shocked and revolted to find there was such a thing as fair dealing or a space marine that didn't owe them royalties for existing.

>> No.29810684

>>29809882
Get out, Newfag. You clearly don't know shit about the real Tyranids, the way they were written by their creator.

>> No.29811113

>>29810266
Gants don't even have digestive systems.

>> No.29811887

>>29806963

>and that is what the red terror is for

What, practically speaking, will survive 4+ hits from the red terror, won't die anyway, doesn't have an invulnerable save, AND isn't bulky? And, of course, won't just kill the red terror.

The red terror has absolutely no purpose, which sucks because it has such a cool model.

>>29806100

Fun Fact, a Haruspex with WS3 hits anything up to WS 6 just fine. If it had WS4 it honestly wouldn't be appreciably better off against marines than it already is. If it had WS 5 only slightly.

With WS 6 it hits basically everything reliably enough, and it's pretty easy to hit back because it is big and in the fluff it just charges forward to try to get everything into its maw that it can. It knows it's going to get hit. That's why it comes standard with Acid Blood. WS3 is a fine indicator of that.

What it DOESN'T have is enough attacks or enough ability to actually get into close combat.

The WS rules are fucking stupid precisely BECAUSE of how little a difference more WS really makes. The only time WS6 is different from WS 5 is when the two are fighting each other.

>> No.29812250

>>29811887
>5+ is just fine

What is wrong with you people

>> No.29812399

>>29812250

WS 3 hits WS 6 on a 4+.

WSn requires 3+ to hit WS(n-1), a 5+ to hit WS(2n+1) or higher, and a 4+ to hit anything in between.

>> No.29812456

>>29811113

Hormagaunts do (they lay eggs). Termagants sometimes do.

>> No.29812500

>>29812399

I love math, that makes much more sense than the damn chart.

>> No.29812561

Went against this for 1st time yesterday w/ Dark Angels. It took wounds well, but killed exactly one terminator over five turns before dying. TFW winning because unbalanced.

>> No.29812574

>>29812399
Oh shit, I was looking at a stupider different chart

>> No.29812605

>>29812561
Was it not killing anything in CC despite its acid blood?

>> No.29812618

>>29812561

Do MCs not ignore armor saves in 6E?

>> No.29812654

>>29812618
They're all AP2.

What the shit, how could a Haruspex only kill 1 terminator

>> No.29812713

>>29812618
>>29812654
My guess would be it killed that one with its tongue and then died to shooting (overwatch? failed charge?).

I ran a 'spex in a game against a friend of mine recently, it did okay. Ate a few units of marines, absorbed a fairly ludicrous amount of firepower. I used the swarmlord to give it preferred enemy to make the most of its extra attacks on the charge. It also had catalyst on it much of the game, worth noting.

>> No.29812735

>>29812654

Invulnerable saves than getting mulched by power fists, most likely.

Acid Blood is only STR 5, and it presumably took some wounds on the way to CC anyway. And if he didn't remember not to use the crushing claws, the Haruspex hits at the same time as the fists so it can't even thin out their numbers first. Then you can factor in that the terminators have an invulnerable save because of dumbass reasoning.

And I mean, the terminators wound the haruspex back on a 2+ and ignore its save, so it's not like it has much of a chance to survive.

I'm honestly more surprised that it took 5 turns to die than about it only killing one terminator.

>> No.29812834

>>29812735
MCs with crushing claws strike at initiative now, reread the unwieldy rule.

>> No.29812856

>>29812834

neat.

Still not enough to save the haruspex, unfortunately. It would at least help it against other walkers/MCs though.

>> No.29813717

>>29812856
makes MCs with claws mulch walkers a lot easier

>> No.29813790

>>29813717

and makes walkers even MORE useless than they could possibly be

>WHYGWWHY

>> No.29813823

>>29813790
its ok, soon walkers will be removed from the game, because everything will be a MC if its a walker.

and the nids will have the worst MC, which will go nicely with our lack of AV and 2+ saves

>> No.29813928

>>29812856
Tyranid MCs have been like this since at least 5th edition. A few krak missiles or heavy bolter rounds to drop a carnifex or Tyrant down to having only a wound left, and then a unit charges in and just clobbers the poor monster with a power fist.

That 2+ to wound while ignoring armor saves is a real doozy for the bugs. Every time it happens, specifically when it's something with its face low to the ground, I just imagine the space marine open-palm bitch-slapping the MC like it owes him money.

>> No.29813943

>>29813823

this game...

this

fucking

game...

>> No.29813990

>>29813823

GW isn't that smart.

>> No.29814120

>>29813928
At least we have great psychic powers.
aha
ahahahaha

>> No.29814142

>>29813823
>Getting rid of walkers
>Keeping artillery alive for some dumb fuck reason with only 2 whole units in the fucking game
>Thunderfire cannon and Zap cannon

Shit nigga, they ain't gettin rid of them.

>> No.29814175

>>29813928

This is really why Tyranids need stuff going up to T8. Not fucking Eldar.

>> No.29814249

>>29814175
Hey, hey, GW said those two codexes were gifts, and we shouldn't expect anything like them.

>> No.29814301

Truthfully, I think the haruspex should stay the same stat-wise, but it should get what the old rumor for it was.

Every time it takes a wound, it gains an extra attack (to a max of 10), and every time it deals a wound it heals a wound. Then make it a character and give it something like "While in a challenge, if the haruspex hits with enough attacks to equal the opponent's wounds, that model needs to make an initiative test or be removed from the battle.

Give it that, and maybe a 5++ or something (I think all nids need some sort of invul), and I think that should make it a pretty scary Close combat monstrous creature, and fill the role of a horde eater.

>> No.29814357

>>29814301
Nids should get like, FNP(6) while in synapse or something

>> No.29814367

>>29814142

what are loldar support weapons?

inb4 useless

>> No.29814409

>>29814249

FUCK GW WITH A RUSTY PIPE

>> No.29814438

>>29814301
>I know how to fix this unit
>let's just make it super overpowered

>> No.29814578

>>29814438

>and for kicks lets give everything from carnis to rippers INVULNs
>thatll fix nids for sure!

this is why /tg/ hates 40k homebrews with a passion

>> No.29814582

>>29814438
it still has only a 3+ save, and has no grenades and only strikes as I3 and starts with only 3 attacks, so it's not like it'll be strong when it starts out. Those rules would make it something that you don't want to get into your lines, so it'll draw a lot of fire. Besides, it still takes up an elite slot and it isn't a synapse creature either so it'll have to be baby sat to get across the field too.

>> No.29814625

>>29814578
i don't think giving the army FNP while in synapse would be that broken honestly.

>> No.29814759

>>29814625

I have a lot of ideas about where to go with nids but im obviously hesitant to post anything and its really just a jumbled up mess in my head
I would like to post it and get others opinions on whether something is too good or not but of course if its outright ignored/trolled/flamed then im just wasting my time

>> No.29814773

>>29814625
it basically only helps push the MC's into supertough, and the little bugs against small arms, warriors and similar are just as fucked as before. those instant death krak missiles still ignore that fnp. so it's a net gain of zero.

>> No.29814817

>>29814578
I appologize, I worded that wrong, what I meant to say was give more than 2 units in the entire codex an invul.

>> No.29814830

>>29814773
>it improves these aspects
>but not these aspects
>net gain of zero

>> No.29814875

>>29814773

didn't the new edition remove the 'insta death ignores FNP' clause?

>>29814817

one of my ideas would be having synapse creatures gaining a 4+ invuln

>> No.29815073

>>29814773
...
I don't see the problem

It helps our MCs

it helps out gribblies

yes, warriors are still bad, but they'll always be bad until they all have EW or t5, lets move on with life and deal with it

>> No.29815253

>>29815073

what about warriors with a 4+ invuln?

>> No.29815303

>>29814875

4+ invuln for synapse creatures is pretty damn broken.

>> No.29815381

>tfw no one is realizing the power of Lictor/ Stealer spam and are obsessed with Synapse to the point of insanity

You need a few Gaunt blobs to hold objectives, some Zoats for backup Synapse, a Flyrant, and then everything else should be outflank/ DS units that are close to charge literally as soon as they enter the board. Lictors in particular should terrify anyone who plays a shooty army because if you can't intercept them, they WILL assault you and probably destroy whatever they touch. I saw 3 of them run right through 2 tactical squads and a Dev squad with Tigurius with almost zero difficulty. They roll dice, models die, they move on.

tl;dr Lictors are the new hotness and the Deathleaper is the answer to Psyker-heavy armies.

>> No.29815448

>>29815381
...

Yeah. You keep thinkin that.

>> No.29815495

>>29815448
>I'm stuck in the last codex only Tervigons are good unit high strategy is beyond me bawwwww

>> No.29815516

>>29815303

would make warriors quite legit no?

>> No.29815549

>>29815381

and then they all get butt fucked by ignores cover and overwatch

bravo

>> No.29815597

>>29815495
Yeah, not even saying that.

Lictors are not that magical, they're still pretty bad. And you can STILL get randomly fucked up by IB for NO REASON

>> No.29815612

>>29815549
>ignore cover

You realize Lictors don't miss when they drop, giving them the unbelievably ability to never ever be shot the turn they arrive except by shitty SMS, which also protects your Gaunts that are camping objectives?

>overwatch

That's what the throwaway units of Genestealers are for, to eat Overwatch in lieu of the Lictors getting shot to shit.

>> No.29815622

Another Nids vs Taudar batrep


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK7QHTKpsCs

these games are depressing.

>> No.29815638

>>29815516
You are talking about an entire ARMY tho, not a single creature or 2.
No one would really think that is a good idea except the nid players who want a busted army, not a balanced one.
To me, synapse should represent more threat, less control, not a defined way to screw an army. Look at Crons.

>> No.29815652

>>29815597
>they're still pretty bad

Models that don't scatter on deployment and strike with 5 attacks at S6 rending (WITH GRENADES) each with 3 wounds and what amounts to a standing 3+ or 4+ cover save for only 50 is shitty to you?

I bet you actually think Venomthropes are the future LEL

>> No.29815698

>>29814249

Eldar have had T8 for so many dexes though.

>> No.29815700

>>29815652
They do scatter on deepstriking, you can infil them..

Either way they maybe tie up enemy firepower for 1 turn before getting raped.

>> No.29815704

>>29815622
Exactly what I'm talking about, trying to force the new units to play the same way as the old book because there isn't an obvious "I WIN" condition.

>> No.29815705

>>29815381
Lictors need synapse or they fall back.
Stealers STILL DON'T HAVE GRENADES
Broodlords are overcosted and at the end of the day the horror is meh, Yeah a pin once in a while is cool and might save some wounds, but it is unreliable.

oh and the main problem, NOTHING CAN ASSAULT THE TURN THEY ARRIVE FROM RESERVE!
Hell infiltrators can't even assault on the very first turn, so they HAVE to take at least one turn of shooting,

>implying that they are a distraction for the rest of your army

oh that army that slowly footslogging up the field? or held in reserves so there are less targets in general?

This is the edition of Mawlocs and Biovores if anything. Maybe T.fexs with acid and regen.

>> No.29815748

>>29815705
>or they fall back

Uh, LD 10? Doubtful they fall back.

>stealers still don't have nades

Their purpose is not to actually do shit. You use them to eat overwatch. What part of that escapes you? Lrn2synergy.

>>29815700
>they do scatter

No they don't.

>> No.29815772

>>29815704
? He tried to go on a turn 5 all in, he wasn't trying to play the same way as the old book at all

>> No.29815801

>>29815748
oh. Whoop. Misread.

Also its stupid that there should even be a RISK of them falling out

>> No.29815817

>>29815772
>pushing Gaunts forward into a Tau firebase with a few easily targeted Synapse beacons scattered around

No change at all from the last book's strengths. Not at all trying anything new.

>> No.29815837

>>29815638

no no no

synapse CREATURES

tyrants warriors skrikes tyrgon primes tervigons things that generate synapse get the 4+ invuln NOT things within synapse

for stuff in synapse they get fearless and depending on what their instinctive behaviour is they get something else
feed gets rage
hunt gets preferred enemy
lurk gets stealth
being outside of synapse means they get nothing mentioned above so they can get pinned or sweeped in combat and take moral checks from shooting
IB rule is just to determine what they get while under synapse nothing more nothing less

>> No.29815871

>>29815837
Kinda broken still

>> No.29815875

>>29815837
Those little things shouldn't get inviulns

that is dumb

>> No.29815911

>>29815705
>nothing can assault the turn it arrives

WHO

CARES

Why are so many people blatantly refusing to try and use units together to accomplish goals with this new book? Shooty armies do, why won't assault players catch up?

Tau gunline going to shred your big nasty choppy unit? Boy I sure wish there was an S4 AP4 Pinning large blast Barrage weapon in the Nids book somewhere...

Worried about getting shredded on overwatch? Gee, I wish the Nids book had fast-moving beasts that can get to mid-field quickly and then force Overwatch while your Lictors slip around the back...

>> No.29815930

>>29806352
This is why Ork Boyz are WS 4. They don't parry or riposte, any of that fancy shit. Their WS 4 is derived from the fact that they are FUCKING HYPER-AGGRESSIVE NUTTERS.

Which (for different reasons) fits Tyranids to a T.

>> No.29815932

>>29815911
And then they kill themselves cause we have no synapse

>> No.29815953

>>29815748
70 points for a throw away unit, that I'm throwing away for what?
The lictor that infiltrated next to them? Wooo they made it to combat and it only cost me 130 points, a troop slot, and elite slot, oh and they did this by surviving to turn 2, or 3 if you are deepstriking the lictor. Yeah the data slate helps a little but you are still spending a FUCKTON of points on formations of throw away troops, rather than scoring troop.

>> No.29815971

>>29815871

explain youre reasoning

>>29815875

what are 'little things'? warriors? shrikes? god forbid someone wants to use them WELL NOW THEY CAN

I see right through your trolling but you cant stop me now

>> No.29815992

>>29815911
>implying anyone has ever failed a pinning test ever
>implying horms made it up the field when their speed comes from running, after which you can't assualt

>> No.29815994

>>29815971
I genuyinely thing that an invuln save is not the right way to tweak them

Maybe an extra point of toughness, maybe or just some EW

>> No.29816009

>>29815971
They're space marine captains for like 30 pts then.

and what about shrikes, holy shit.

>> No.29816025

>>29815911

Yes. Telegraph every punch! With minimal synergy on your opponents part you will still have your army descented. I just trounced a tyranid player on friday because he couldn't do a single thing without it being totally obvious what he was trying to do so I stopped it which left his units all out of potion and synapse.

Also I took Strength D because I want Tyranid players to quit playing GW games.

>> No.29816049

>>29815932
>we have no Synapse

LEADERSHIP 10 YOU FUCKING MORON.

>>29815953
>that I'm throwing away for what

Throwing away to get a trio of Lictors into that unit of Broadsides and then secondary into a unit of Fire Warriors?

>70 for a throwaway unit

What is "bargain" in Tyranid? Maybe assault players just aren't smart in general if they can't see a golden opportunity to knock off the best army in 40k right now being handed to them.

>> No.29816054

>>29808519
>and GW doesnt like rules with no models.

Fucking Imperial Guard was missing like half of their tanks when they first came out for the longest time.

>> No.29816059

>>29815994

fine drop it down 5+ then even though marine captains and chaplains are running around with 4+ while my tyrant aint got fukken shit

>> No.29816065

>>29815875
I wouldn't call warriors little. Of course, warriors just need to be not gibbed by S8.

And I still don't understand why they've had a line in the core rules of Invulnerable saves for three editions explaining why a Tyranid might have an invulnerable save, and then be very restrictive about Tyranids getting Invulnerable saves.

>> No.29816083

>>29816049
Hormagaunts don't

>> No.29816092

>>29815992
I've seen a ton of units fail pinning tests at critical moments. Force enough tests and Fire Warriors will fail that LD8.

>horms

What are Gargoyles? What are Raveners?

>> No.29816105

>>29811887
my stealth shas'o has ws3 and 3 attacks you don't hear me complaining

>> No.29816107

>>29816059
>>29816065
Don't make it free then

make it an upgrade where takking it is not a "duh" choice

>> No.29816127

>>29816083
>Hormagaunts don't

Why are you taking Hormagaunts when Termies are better in every way?

>> No.29816153

>>29816107

ok 5+ then

how many points are terminators btw?

inb4 theyre fucking shit too

>> No.29816176

>>29816127
some people take them for "speed" In broods of 20+ they are ok and a decent fast tarpit, but gargs are better in every way.

>> No.29816199

>>29816153
Terminators are 40 each with only 1, I repeat, 1, wound

and yeah the standard ones are trash

45 for a survivable save with no range at all

>> No.29816214

>>29816176
Thank God someone who knows what he's talking about.

>> No.29816231

>>29816199

bananas

guess they REALLY pay for that 2+ save?

>> No.29816256

>>29816231
Pretty much, that and deep striking if you really feel the need to.

>> No.29816270

>>29816176
Correct. Gargoyles are the best tarpit.

>> No.29816281

>>29816107
I'd be fine if it were an upgrade, but it flat out doesn't exist, which I find strange. Then I remember that the Studio doesn't read the rules, so chances are no one there knows that they have an explanation for Tyranid Invulnerable saves.
>>29816199
To be fair, if you lose a unit of Terminators, your scouts don't start eating each other. Also, 2+ saving them from Warriors' greatest foe.

>> No.29816304

>>29816281
Plasma is readily available and eats terminators for breakfast.

they have a bane, just a different one.

>> No.29816307

>>29816256
Honestly, assault termies in a LRC can still pull off lightning claws pretty well

>> No.29816358

>>29816307
Lightning claw termies are pretty nice, but I just felt that the extra price that has to be payed for the storm shield was important to get brought up.

>>29816270
What's the cost difference between the two?

And the gaunts don't compette with a sloot that might be more important

>> No.29816423

>>29816304
I agree. But Terminators aren't necessary to keep the other parts of your army moving. When your lynchpin units' bane is common AT weapons in a faction that cannot field tanks to be shot at by them, that's kind of rough. And warriors aren't exactly immune to plasma either.
Full on EW/crazy invulnerable saves would be silly, but they need to be leveled out a little bit.

>> No.29816432

>>29816270
>using your Gargoyles as a tar pit instead of your gants and gaunts as fodder

>> No.29816471

Stop comparing Tyranids to C:SM. Marines aren't even nearly as good as Tau or Eldar or Daemons. Nerfing Space marine captains? Really? Nobody even uses captains not named Kor'sarro Khan or Darnath Lysander.

Tyranid players really are the new CSM players, complete with using C:SM as a scapegoat for their whining.

>> No.29816479

>>29815875
>little things
>12 foot tall Tyranid Warriors
Are you blind, or retarded.

>> No.29816482

>mfw when I play Orks
It's not going to end well for me, is it? I had such high hopes for this book.

>> No.29816524

>>29816423
>Warriors aren't immune to plasma

3 wounds each says they are.

>> No.29816553

>>29816482
>mfw your face when when

>> No.29816584

>>29816524

FAQ: "Plasma is now S8."

>> No.29816591

>>29816553
Fuck, I can't brain today.

>> No.29816612

>>29816591

You should use >mgw for "ME GOB WHEN"

>> No.29816678

>>29814830
oh shit i noticed i phrased it wrong. shoulda ended with "better for mcs and swarmers, but for the warrior teir stuff it's a net gain of zero."

>> No.29816740

so how about those FIVE INCH TALL cheapest hq we have. Malanthropes. how'd they turn out?

>> No.29816757

>>29816482
Shootas will be changed to rapid-fire

>> No.29816763

>>29816479
>12 feet
that's not likely at all, then there is no way that they can have the climactic mono a mono duels with humies or beakies


gaunts are very squat

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tyranid_Warrior#.UuXqSRAo5D8

>Average Height 2.4m

>> No.29816769

>>29816471
When did anyone ever mention nerfing captains?

People compare the codex to C:SM because that is basically the standard to measure by. They are the jack of all trades, master of none codex. A shooty army should be better than them at shooting, worse at assaulting, and vice versa for an assaulting army.
If anything, I'd say measuring up a codex against C:SM is the best way to do it.

Measuring up against Tau/Eldar? That's retarded, those are broken.

>> No.29816775

>>29816757
>mgw
Don't even joke about that anon.

>> No.29816802

>>29816763
look at a marine model compared to a Tyranid Warrior

>> No.29816812

>>29816740
They're not intended to be combat units, and from what I've heard their rules represent that.

No personal opinions on them, though. Aside from that whole 'Its cool that you gave us this, but its not designed to fight, so why bother.'

>> No.29816832

>>29816802
the models for the game are not to scale at all

note how a guardsman compares to a spess marine

>> No.29816840

>>29816763
Grey Knights do it just fine with 20ft greater daemons.

I know, I know, its Grey Knights, but at least they have artwork for examples of it.

Come to think of it, I'm fairly sure there was some artwork of said duels in the Nid codex.

>> No.29816854

Standard Ork Boys will be reduced to WS3

>> No.29816861

>>29816769

Tyranids cannot measure up to Marines either though. That's the problem. They are utter shit and irrelevant to the metagame.

>> No.29816866

So I was messing around a bit earlier, came up with this list:

http://pastebin.com/XxrkRrTm

General idea is Tyrannofex, Carnifex Brood, Zoanthropes, and one of the Venomthrope broods roll up into one big ball and roll into the enemy, MCs using their bulk to shield the Venomthropes from being picked out, Zoans providing Synapse, and Venomthropes providing 5+ cover for MCs. If the Zoans aren't managing to pop heavy armor, Carnies can always peel away and smash into things. I gave the MCs Glands in case the Zoans (or even Tyrants) pull Onslaught.

Hive Tyrants spot-check any trouble areas with synapse and more devourer fire, plus whatever extra power they wind up with.

Termies, Warriors, and Biovores hold back line for objectives.

Problem is I literally do not own a single one of these models. My existing Tyranid army are the shattered remains of an old 'Stealershock list.

There still folks playing on Vassal? Has the module been kept up to date after that C&E a few years back or not?

>> No.29816881

>>29816840
Yeah, but the grey knights have specialized gear for the task

I was thinking more in terms of things like cain dueling them and surviving

>> No.29816883

>>29816854
Direct to
>>29816775

>> No.29816885

>>29816861
That's why I'm saying its fine for people to compare their army to C:SM. When your specialists can't beat the Jacks, you have a problem.

>> No.29816893

>>29804227
actually it's far worse than that, instead of being written by one person, it was written by a commitee, so each person has a different opinion of what should be done with the rules, resulting in a bland, tasteless and useless set of copy and paste rules.

>> No.29816917

>>29816854
>Reduced to WS 3
Justify it. A Guardsman is WS 3, and an Ork Boys entire life is warfare, and constantly smacking gits around. Hell, I think they should get S4.

>> No.29816919

>>29816763
>http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tyranid_Warrior#.UuXqSRAo5D8

Lexicanum is full of bullshit, uncited sources and conjecture.

The Tyranid Codex states they are twice the height of a man. Average human male is about six feet tall. And gaunts are not that small, either, they are easily taller than a person if they rear up on their hind legs.

>> No.29816929

>>29816881
Yeah, I'm just talking in terms of height, which is what I had thought you were talking about; that they were too big to duel humans effectively.

Besides, I'd say a power sword is pretty much all the gear folks need for most duels.

>> No.29816948

>>29816917
Because they're not marines or elves.

>> No.29816950

>>29816866
So the idea is to get all the Monstrous Creatures into a group and smash them into the enemy line?

I dub your list "MC Hammer."

>> No.29816952

>>29816524
Operative word I used was "exactly". I'd much rather not have plasma being flung at warriors along with whatever the fuck else is coming their way, because that's still 2+ no armor shot.
And seeing as there isn't any other infantry that's 2+, why not fling plasma at them? They are better at taking it than Terminators. They still don't want to take it.

>> No.29816964

>>29816919
Is it me, or do you think they should mount their guns on their back? Like, they could have that thing birds have that stabilize their heads on a shakey branch.

>> No.29816965

>>29803352
It's absolutely shitty rules wise but there is no way in hell I'm not gonna buy, paint and field that beautiful fucking beast.

>> No.29816973

>>29816929
For duling something 20 feet tall, a halberd is way better than a measly sword since you can hit things other than just an ankle

>>29816948
boyz have had that statline forever, most stalines are pretty much the same

>> No.29816988

>>29816950

You are not the first.

>> No.29816990

>>29816948
>Not Marines or Elves
That's the point. A Space Marine is WS 4, because he's spending all his time training. A Ork is WS 4 because his entire life is fighting.

>> No.29817012

>>29816917

Don't Boyz have WS3 in Fantasy?

I really wouldn't put it past them.

>> No.29817023

>>29816964
I think they'd have a hard time aiming with guns on their backs while trying to dart and weave in and out of cover etc. Dorsal mounted guns is a much better idea for slow moving artillery organisms.

>> No.29817034

>>29817012
They do, but they also have BS 3. Mediocrity the army.

>> No.29817109

>>29817023
Wouldn't they know where the gun is pointing like Terminators and their smart gun things?

>> No.29817115

>>29816832
Exactly.

The Warriors should be even taller.

>> No.29817174

>>29817109
It's not a problem of sighting to aim, it's a problem of flexibility. Limbs can bend and maneuver to track targets without rearranging the entire spinal column. Mounting the guns on some kind of fast-tracking flesh-turret on their backs would probably be too demanding in terms of biomass to justify it on such expendable creatures.

>> No.29817204

>>29816775

It'll totally happen. Gotta sell those models, rite?

In the previous codex shootas were essentially AP6 boltguns, but everybody took sluggas and choppas because they were so good (more attacks and converting any save better than 4+ to 4+). Now they've been replaced with the dakkatastic Assault2 18inchers, everyone takes them. Of couuuuurse they're going to ruin them, so everyone will have to buy tons of boxes of slugga boyz.

>mfw my shoota boyz are the same ones I used with the last codex and the same ones I will use with the next codex because I'm a Bad Moon player and THEY LIKE TO SHOOT

>> No.29817245

>>29817204
>mfw I play Blood Axes
>mfw I just put the choppa blade under the Shoota so I can have Shoota boyz and Choppa Boyz as the same model
You'z smalltime. Also, I hope next book Boy Squads get Mob Up! and ability to take a Burna.

>> No.29817434

>>29817245

If the next book doesn't meet expectations, me and my Ork playing buddy are just using the old codex. Our Nid player is using the 4th ed one, and our chaos using the 3.5 ed one.

only guys who occaisionally complain are our eldar and tau guys, oddly enough

I miss when a PK+Choppa was the optimum loadout for your Warboss. I8 on the charge with your armour save-modifying choppa, snip up survivors next turn with the power klaw.

pic related, my Warboss from 4th edition. He's blue because I temporarily changed from BM to DS for the modelling opportunities made available by being able to take a billion looted vehicles (the old pdf klan lists)

>> No.29817491

>>29817434
Beautiful.

>> No.29817500

>>29817434

Tyranids using 4E and CSM using 3.5 is horse shit.

>> No.29817507

>>29813790
aren't Dreadnaughts I4? They'd still get to finish off the I3 Haruspex or I2 Carnifex before they ever get to swing

>> No.29817521

>>29817507
dreadnaught CC weapons strike at I1 i believe

>> No.29817522

>>29817500
Lemme guess, you play Tau and/or Eldar.

>> No.29817528

>>29817434

Must be nice to have a book where you were once super powerful.

What should the armies that were never good do?

>> No.29817533

>>29817434
Hey, maybe they'll bring back the Choppa Rule. Enjoy your 3+ Termis.

>> No.29817559

>>29817528
You mean Sisters?

>> No.29817586

>>29817491

Thankyou. Covered as much wargear as I could building him. Bionic bonce, big gob, cybork body, eavy armour, and the weapons.

Heres my Looted Russ, a staple of those old days.

>>29817500

What makes you say that? We're friends gaming together in a casual, fun environment. Our chaos and nid dudes are not masochistic enough to want to play with the new books.

>> No.29817614

>>29817586
>Bionic Bounce
>Big Gob
I only started at the begining of 6th. Please tell me what these magical wargear did.

>> No.29817674

>>29817614

>big gob/big horns
+1 ld, can't take both
>bionic bonce
+1 to your armour save, can't take with mega armour

Could take the custom jobs that flash gitz have for your nob / warbosses sluggas/ shootas, shit was mad customizable back then

>> No.29817705

>>29817521
Nope. Walkers like MCs ignore unwieldy.

>> No.29817738

>>29817528

actually my ork playing buddy also has a sisters army, he uses the witch hunters book, because even if it wasn't super powerful, it's still far better than the WD codex and much, much more fun to use.

>> No.29817743

>>29817674
>mfw
WHY DID THEY TAKE THESE FROM ORKS

>> No.29817752

>>29817586
>casual, fun environment
>use the most OP editions from your faction's books

>> No.29817807

>>29817743
Because they were fun, presumably. And 40k is no fun allowed.

>> No.29817816

>>29803352
Everyone seems to be forgetting it's S6 AP2, with 5 wounds. It'll rip apart marine squads with ease. You can also give it fleet with the adrenal glands pretty easily to get it into that combat.

>> No.29817847

>>29817807
>mfw
Fuck you Kelly. Lets hope the Aspket Boyz don't return in our new book, and a Blood Axe Suppliment so my Boyz can have their 'umie friends.

>> No.29817866

>>29817743
Same same reason Nids lost all their badass biomorphs

>> No.29817875

>>29817807
>tfw if you don't play the top army it's an unfun slaughterfest
>tfw if you play the top army it's an unfun slaughterfest
>tfw if you both play the top army it's an unfun stalemate

>> No.29817879

>>29817816

isthisniggaserious.jpg

>> No.29817880

>>29817743
Because 4th edition.

>> No.29817883

>>29817847
There's my image.

>> No.29817887

>>29817752
If everyone is OP, no one is, anon.

>> No.29817894

>>29817743

because phil kelly is a dick to anything that isn't eldar.

>>29817752

They may be powerful, but you must admit, they were much more fleshed out. All the biomorphs, the different unit setups, the Legion lists, the books of chaos with god-dedicated wargear and daemon weapons.

Few of us are happy with spamming cheesey units and having armouries with 8 options in them. Our gaming circle likes diversity, it likes choice, it likes fluff. Because those things are what makes the game fun

>> No.29817903

>>29817847
K-kelly used to be our friend.

>> No.29817920

>>29817880
4th sounds like a dark and evil time.

>> No.29817934

>>29817894
He wrote 4e nids with Chambers..

It was beautiful..

>> No.29817945

>>29817879
Yes, this nigger is serious, you've just got to learn to play instead of bitching because you're not handed an 'I win' button like Tau or Eldar.

>> No.29817946

>>29817816
Except it's too slow to reach combat without eating several face-fulls of whatever high-S AP-low guns your opponent happens to be packing.

Lots of assault units would be great if you could just magically teleport right next to the enemy and instantly assault them without getting shot, but sadly they don't have that luxury. It's shit.

>> No.29817950

>>29817903
That was a long time ago anon. If the rumors are true, Lord Ward will have to suffice.

>> No.29817966

>>29817934

Andy chambers also wrote the old Ork codex and co-wrote GorkaMorka.

I doubt any of the cool stuff with Kelly. I also met him at games day, the year the dark eldar codex came out. He's arrogant, snobby and just fucking rude.

>> No.29818024

>>29817946
Then that means they're not shooting at your god damn Hive Tyrant. Tyranids are suppose to have dispensable units. Jesus you guys are thick.

>> No.29818041

>>29818024
costs too much for a DISTRACTION CARNIFEX

>> No.29818062

>>29817875
I remember playing a Serpent-spam Eldar list in 5th a few times. It was boring pretty much every time (Oh, a Tyranid with a ton of Mysytic spores? Yay easy KPs). My best game was against a DE-skimmer spam list that ended with nearly every skimmer blown up and Eldrad in a punching match with Vect.
That was a good game, a 5-man dragon squad blew up a raider then ran down and beat the warriors within to death.
>>29817920
It was a new direction. A stream-lined, boring new direction.

>> No.29818133

>>29818062

Am I alone in thinking that the streamlining of army lists and armouries is generally despised by those who play this game?

Space Marine chapter traits, IG doctrines, Ork Klans, Chaos Legions, everyone would be happy having them in newer books?

The same with armouries with 30 different things you can give your sergeants and characters rather than TRADE BOLTGUN FOR X OR Y and 5 army relics?

>> No.29818139

>>29815622
God, why is everyone at frontline so retarded about nids? Flyrants are not the future. Flyrants are not even that great. Flyrants run ahead of yoru army, giving synapse to fucking nothing, die like bitches because they have absolutely 0 support, and then you act like its a surprise when all the little bugs you left in their dust go full retard. People need to get the new codex into their heads.

>> No.29818160

>>29818139

That's why I take 2+ groundrants

>> No.29818180

>>29818160
>2+ groundrants

hahaha
ha
ha
h
ah
a
ha
ha
ehisa
fdjh
psA

FUCK YOU CRUDDACE YOU PIECE OF SHIT WHY CAN'T I GIVE MY HQ MC A FUCKING 2+ SAVE OR AN INVULN SAVE OF ANY KIND EAT A DICK

>> No.29818206

>>29818139
Personally I think flying DakkaTyrants are an amazing unit. If you don't want them running ahead of the army just land them. And heck, some good rolls on the Nid Psy-tree can get you some neat support powers.

>> No.29818210

>>29818180

ah ah ah, once every other turn your tyrant can have a 2+ save

during the ASSAULT PHASE ONLY

>> No.29818224

>>29818180

It's okay, even if you can't have defensive options just use your offensive tools like a Doom of Malan'tai and some zoanthropes in mycetic spores. Taking multiple zoanthropes will increase the amount of enemies you can target with the devastating main rulebook powers.

>> No.29818234

>>29818210
45 POINTS EAT MY SHIT CUDDANCE I WILL CHOKE YOU TO DEATH WITH IT I SWEAR

I WILL FIND YOU AND SHIT DOWN YOUR THROAT UNTIL YOU DIE

>> No.29818258

>>29818224
AUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU


RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>> No.29818264

>>29818180
Silly rabbit
MCs with 2+ saves is for Tau

>> No.29818277

>>29817934
I think Andy Chambers had already left by that point and his name was just on the 4th edition codex since it drew so heavily from his 3rd edition one. Official and fan interviews made it sound like that anyway.

http://tasty.warpshadow.com/piece.htm

>Jes: Our pleasure, I’ve had to be patient also, but I’m getting better at it after the therapy. Anyway guys, there were several other guys on the team. Roberto Cirillo did a lot of concept work and visualisation. Mark Harrison did a lot of the sculpting [The lictor is my favourite of his] and of course the spirit of Mr Chambers was always with us.

http://web.archive.org/web/20050611003544/http://uk.games-workshop.com/tyranids/designers-notes/1/

>Phil took over the reins of the Tyranids project from Andy Chambers, once the Warhammer 40,000 Overfiend and broodfather of the Tyranids as we know them today.

>> No.29818290

>>29818133
Not really, no. Options are nice. Now, while I like all of a unit's options right there in its entry, armories are needed if you are going to pull GK-levels of wacky shit (seriously, look at the Henchmen entry). Funnily enough, the Eldar book has no real armory, along with only semi-decent magic items (an item that halves warp charges but you lose your save…with a lore that is half WC2 powers). I'm actually really bored with the book, fuck, jet bikes got nothing new.
Doctrines and traits were good ideas, just terribly balanced (and oddly enough added in 4th).
If you want stream-lining, play WM (which is a very solid game).

>> No.29818301

>>29818277
and now we see why there are without him..

at least i still have my 3rd ed OOE..

w-when he was gooooooood /sob

>> No.29818326

>>29818234
>mfw there are hundreds of angry neckbeards scarfing down Taco Bell and junk food and waddling around, eyes bulging with rage, straining to contain a gut full of shit 24/7 in the off chance they ever walk into Cruddace IRL

>> No.29818331

>>29805583
that's exactlly why they are not pushing them: these armies sells themselves.
They don't need OP codex to sell the models at all.

Unlike Tau.

>> No.29818344

>>29818264
Those silly old bears.

>> No.29818349

>>29818264
>MCs with 2+ saves is for Tau

>> No.29818353

>>29818326
oh fuck i'm choking

>> No.29818356

>>29815622
>nids vs taudar

geez, can't they at least give the nid player something? like fighting an easier army like chaos or non screamer deamons? not really into snuff films

>> No.29818366

So, now that the nids have been royally shafted, and GW have stated that the power level of Tau / Eldar isn't going to be a recurring thing, who's next? Do you think they'll give IG similar treatment, or will it miraculously emerge unscathed due to its Imperial heritage?

>> No.29818378

>>29818356
The nid player chose to play Taudar for a chance to get 100

So far Nids haven't won a 'challenge' single batrep

>> No.29818393

>>29818366
Crud will make them op

>> No.29818426

>>29818393
"Guys, it was a gift, no other codicies will be at that power level."

Queue each of the remaining codicies being Taudar league on their own. But only if you use the new models.

>> No.29818432

>>29818264

>> No.29818433

>>29818366
>miraculously emerge unscathed due to its Imperial heritage

SoB, vanilla marines, DA, and BT would like several words with you. And by words I mean fists.

Seeing as how IG 5E was a buff, they likely aren't going to be new Taudar. They may not get a huge Tyranids nerf but I don't think they will be top army again so soon.

>> No.29818436

>>29818393

Since crud caused GWs stock to plummet over this nid fiasco, is anyone sure he even still works there?

>> No.29818465

>>29818139

You get the D if you are walking. I gave the D to a groundrant just last Friday at my lgc league

>> No.29818473

>>29818366
>>29818393
>Codex Imperial Guard
>By Dan Abnett

>> No.29818491

>>29818473
>a commissar can fight off a daemon prince

>> No.29818493

>>29818436

He is 1 of 4 majority shareholders......

>> No.29818494

>>29818433
Personally, I am getting the vibe that IG and Orks will be balanced. Not ridiculously OP, not severely nerfed, just balanced. It'll come up to player skill/tactics and the dice gods.

The types of armies where it'll take effort to do well, but bad players won't get stomped so hard they don't get a chance to see where they went wrong.

>> No.29818495

>>29818473
>mfw
10/10 would play

>> No.29818538

>>29818491

They can't already?

>> No.29818553

>>29818491
>>29818473

>> No.29818579

>>29818473
Abnett? Why not the glorious CS Goto

Can you say multi-lasers?

>> No.29818583

>>29818493

Oh.

So you're telling me the only way to stop him, is to kill him?

>> No.29818636

>>29818206
They're great in a vacuum, the problem is they need to operate with the rest of the 'nid army. If they rest of your army is harpies/crones, gargoyles, etc., you could maybe make it work. But it has to be built around it, they aren't just plug and play like the last codex.

>>29818465
I'm sure your $300 penis substitute model gets you all the ladies.

>> No.29818667

>>29818636
It'd be fun to build an entire army with fleet and just bumrush, lots of crones to help vector strike and drool cannon

>> No.29818668

>>29818583

NOT EVEN DEATH CAN SAVE YOU FROM ME

>> No.29818691

>>29818538
they get eaten alive tabletop wise by even the lowest cheapest prince, seriously. combat wise anyway.

>>29818473
>lasguns become s3 ap- assault 10 or s3 ap1 assault 1
>leman russes become troops
>creed is retconned into have not only taken cadia back, killed abaddon by bitchslap but also healed the emperor
>mfw

>> No.29818696

>>29818668
He looks like a Ogryn with downs.

>> No.29818700

>>29818636
>$300 for a titan

That's how much Chinese pirates charge. Try $600+

>> No.29818730

>>29818433

ok, SoB obvious get rekt, and BT are gone completely (which sucks, because the vows that they had were sweet - falling back TOWARDS the enemy? Yes please!) but are there any people who have played the current vanilla dex / DA dex AND its previous one who can honestly say its somehow worse?

SM, maybe, but DA? I don't know how you could really make it worse than the previous one. Every legendary sword in it was just a master crafted power weapon

>> No.29818733

>>29818667
Yeah, I think it might be a pretty viable list, especially now you can take 3 harpies/crones and still take gargoyles via the formation from the dataslate.

>>29818700
I assumed a revenant, and rounded generously.

>> No.29818739

>>29818700
>Stompa was only 100$
Feels good.

>> No.29818744

The haruspex is internally balanced with the other nid choices.

>> No.29818753

>>29818691
>they get eaten alive tabletop wise by even the lowest cheapest prince, seriously. combat wise anyway.
>implying those 40 guardsmen and heavy weapon squads aren't just an extension of the commissar

>> No.29818772

>>29818733
>I assumed a revenant, and rounded generously.

FUCKING ELDAR EVEN THEIR SUPERHEAVIES COST LESS MONEY THAN WARHOUNDS WhA TTHE FUCK

>> No.29818803

NO INNOVATION
NO INITIATIVE
NO CONVERTING
NO OUTSIDE SOURCES
IF WE DON'T SELL IT, YOU CAN'T HAVE IT

>> No.29818823

>>29818753
i see your 40 guardsmen and raise you 20 seekers

>> No.29818827

>>29818730

Vanilla marine got overall better but there are multiple ways where the 5E book is much better. Many of the buffs come at a cost. For example, sternguard price reduction? Combis price doubled. New chapter tactics that are more varied? They are also now weaker since they are not USR (except for a few exceptions) or they are one turn use (Red Hunter/Ultramarine) and you can no longer pick and choose and mix them via HQ.

If you look at the very last competitive list from 5E C:SM in 6E, it was Khan on foot, 2 squads of scouts, 3 TFC, 3 Stormtalon and your choice of allies, at that time that would be IG Vendettas and platoons/vets.

We can obviously see how a "White Scars" list with Khan and this same setup is garbage with the 6E book.

DA is a complete improvement in all ways but somehow GW power creep made it terrible.

>> No.29818828

>>29818772
It's also by far the most OP thing in escalation, the only other thing that really competes is the transcendent c'tan.

>> No.29818835

>>29818493
>Cruddace is one of the four majority shareholders

Wait... seriously? Is that why we're all dealing with Cruddace's awful mediocrity to the point that, after years of writing, they finally had to REMOVE THE NAMES OF THE AUTHORS TO OBFUSCATE RAGE?

Does Matt Ward hold majority shares too? Are the worst fucking codex writers, who are ruing the game, in actuality just more spoiled, stupid rich kids ruining the world for everyone else?

>> No.29818847

>>29818835
>Actually believing that post

>> No.29818849

>>29818827
>no more Combat Tactics
>didn't add Hit & Run anywhere except White Scars

A lot of chapters got screwed unless your name is White Scars or Iron Hands or Imperial Fists.

>> No.29818855

>>29818636
Personally, I have never had a problem with Flyrants, in theory or practice. Heck, I only started bringing dual-Flyrants near the end of Nids 5th and throughout 6th.

But then again, I play against friends who are in it for fun/narrative. Tau is a bit of a dick about it, but everyone else is a bro.

Nothing quite like Inquisitors fending off renegade vanguard veterans for a few turns.

>> No.29818896

>>29818730

Dark Angels should get cheaper terminators, cheaper plasma, and get some interesting and useful wargear. If they fixed the Nephilim/Dark Talon to resemble an actual fighter or a ground attack plane that would be great too.

>> No.29818913

>>29818847
Euch. I know it's far-fetched, but with the more I read about how the system works in the US, the more I worry it's that way everywhere and in every business.

It's like, I turn on NPR and they're talking about how some CEO from McDonald's or some shit bought new cars for the guys in the GOP, and it's all considered legal because getting gifts from friends is naturally not against the law.

Then someone goes, "Oh yeah, Cruddace is a major shareholder", and the part of me that's come to understand I will never own anything significant in the world but the love of my family just assumes you're not kidding.

>> No.29818929

>>29816482
I can see it now Orks getting animosity like fantasy.

>> No.29818955

>>29818855
The problem isn't the flyrants, it's what your army lacks for fielding them. It's definitely less pronounced in fun/casual games, I just want someone over at frontline to pull their head out of the previous codex's ass for five seconds and try something other than the ancient stale monolist, -tervigons, + a bunch of mawlocks. They've tried that list. Now move on and try something else.

>> No.29818987

>>29807694
TBH, this sounds like Chaos players whining about their 3rd ed codex...

>Muh flavor! Muh Iron Warriors game raping cheese strom was flavorful!!!

Yet this is acceptable whining.

Fucking double standards people.

>> No.29818990

>>29818913
Nah, Cruddace is just another office grunt. He's just one with a really punchable face and a poor sense of game design.

>> No.29819031

>>29818987
But did anyone actually say the Chaos players needed all their stuff taken away?

If they'd just just made the carnifex 100 points base, before even getting its talons or whatever, and left in all those options, everything would be cool. But it costs 160 points and all the options are gone.

>> No.29819038

>>29818987

I think there are exceptions to this though. If someone wants to play the 3.5 book to take an overpowered list purely for the sake of winning, they can piss off.

If someone genuinely likes the fluff of the legion, the primarch, their combat methods and just wants an army that plays almost identically to how it's described in the stories, then thats fine.

>> No.29819060

>>29818987
this is our price to pay for heldrakes,3.5, and lash of slaanesh, anon

>> No.29819116

>>29819060

Odd, I've played Death Guard through all three editions and I didn't use lash princes, nor do I use heldrakes because its not fluffy, so where's all my nurgle-themed wargear gone?

>> No.29819153

>>29819038
I think people just like having options. If your codex has a total of ten wargear options and only two of them are good, it becomes a question of whether or not you field a few more or a few less of certain models, not how you outfit them.

With 4th edition Nids, I was burning through paper with all the unique and interesting army lists I was putting together. Admittedly it drove my friends a little crazy because, despite having the same models most of the time, they never knew what they'd be hit with. Of course that is kind of the point of an army, if you're going to be realistic.

Then 5th came out and I had one list. One. I had to throw away a stack of papers, and for like a year the best I could do was tweak my existing list a little. It wasn't even a very competitive list because it only had one tervigon. It was a list where I understood army couldn't move because they needed all buffs from nearby units - their castle formation was critical to them doing well.

I relied more on harpies protected by venomthropes, along with biovores. Hive popped open the transports by moving the whole castle forward just enough, and then harpies and biovores cleaned the infantry. All the gaunts had devourers and hormagaunts were there to slow down effective assault units, since even marine assault units were better than my assault units when you got right down to it. That was due to No Retreat of course.

Then I quit playing. It was fucking boring.

>> No.29819171

>>29819116
You have plague marines, Typhus (for zombies) and marks, what more could you possibly need?

Heck, next edition we'll take away the plague marines!

>> No.29819173

>>29819116
you get blight grenades as special gear, so there's your fluff tie in. i know that feel, played infiltrating death guard in 3.5

>> No.29819223

>>29819173
Have you heard about the new CSM supplement thing coming down the pipes? Lets you buy special rule upgrades on a per-squad basis (requires VotLW to unlock though, I think). Known available rules do include infiltrate.

>> No.29819226

>>29819153

Haha, I totally get you anon. As a guard player back in 4th I was at constant risk of getting bumrushed by genestealers in turn1 or distracion carnifex'd whenever my opponent fielded one. I bought my own copy of the codex because I could never quite adapt to my opponents on the fly, so I bought the book so I could know what units could take what biomorphs, and how I could anticipate / recognise them.

Overcoming nids that way was a ton of fun, because it was a challenge. I feel bad for you guys now, I really do.

>> No.29819290

>>29819171

Typhus is a cool dude, but I don't like taking him, special character in general, or plague zombies. Its more fun to build your own Lord.

>>29819173
I just want my manreaper back. My termy lord has one from 2 editions ago. What does it represent now? A power sword? A power axe? The black mace? According to opponents, the only thing that a scythe is acceptable to proxy is A FUCKING POWER STAFF

Also, vet skills were rad, and made sense because these dudes are 10,000 years old and were trained far differently than modern space marines. Why the chop?

>> No.29819323

>>29819290
I would say Axe at the very least. Its a fucking scythe. Blade on a stick. Just like an axe.

>> No.29819331

>>29815911
>Gee, I wish the Nids book had fast-moving beasts that can get to mid-field quickly and then force Overwatch while your Lictors slip around the back..

I wish that as well. It'd be nice for tyranids having options other than hoping their Mawlocs are superstars.

>> No.29819361

>>29819290
>A FUCKING POWER STAFF
That's the most retarded thing I've heard since... I dunno, but it's really dumb. Power staves are meant for blunt weapons, not hafted weapons in general. I'd go with >>29819323, or at a stretch, a power lance. Staff is just ridiculous.

>> No.29819383

>>29819290
Proxy models can be anything you want them to be. I briefly played a Space Wolves army composed entirely of lizardmen with bolters. I can't remember how I got so many bolters, but I was actually able to army them all properly. That's WYSIWYG! That's what I decided, anyway.

I did have people give me a few cocked eyebrows, but after I explained the army was pretty much pure infantry and that the lizardmen were technically blood talons being escorted by one actual space marine, they relaxed a bit.

Point is, most people don't complain if you do strange things with your models as long as you aren't blatantly doing it to gain an advantage in the middle of a game.

>> No.29819388

>>29819290
>I just want my manreaper back. My termy lord has one from 2 editions ago. What does it represent now? A power sword? A power axe? The black mace? According to opponents, the only thing that a scythe is acceptable to proxy is A FUCKING POWER STAFF

>yfw even the 4th edition codex had a wider selection of daemon weapons than the current one

>> No.29819393

>>29819323

Axe / Black Mace made the most sense to me, but the mace isn't allowed because "you're obviously taking a plague-curse themed item because its OP" and axe is out because "axes are 1handed and a scythe isn't".

Typhus' daemon weapon is unwieldy, so whats wrong with an axe?

This is the thanks I get for NOT running nurgle bikers, nurgle spawn or any heldrakes. Sometimes I just want to go "fuck it", buy 4 drakes, ally with a black legion list and BURN THEM ALL

But then I stop, because that's not how Mortarions boys play. It's NEVER how Mortarions boys played.

>> No.29819429

>>29817559

Sisters were actually really good at various points in time. Just nobody played them.

Then they got DoW'd into oblivion.

>> No.29819448

>>29819388
Near as I can tell you can't even buy daemon weapons in the latest codex. Only the named ones that come with characters or the relics.

>> No.29819480

>>29817946

If only there was some way to get it there.

Like some kind of big spore mine that deep struck in and split open to reveal a monstrous creature.

We can only dream.

>> No.29819490

>>29818139

Flyrants are pretty great if you roll psychic scream.

Otherwise people field them because they're a much more viable answer to fliers than the Hive Crone is.

>> No.29819501

>>29819429
I really liked Sisters conceptually, but their metal models were such a turn off. That and they didn't have a lot of choices, so you knew at a glance what you'd be running with.

I remember a number of people thinking "Sisters should be the faction that appeals to girls", but most who thought this weren't dating much. Surprisingly, the faction that appealed to girls was Tyranids. Who knows why, but I think for some it's the prospect of painting a bunch of dinosaur creatures in organic ways that mimic nature, which is an option you don't get with any of the other armies.

>> No.29819526

>>29819448

Daemon Weapons (not including those held by special characters)

>Current codex
>2, one for Khorne, one undivided

>Previous codex
>5, one for each mark, one undivided

>Previous previous codex
>12
>Dark Blade, Dreadaxe, Ether Lance, Kai Gun for undivided
>Accursed Crozius for Word Bearers
>Berserker Glaive for Khorne
>Manreaper + Pandemic Staff for Nurgle
>Lash of Torment + Needle of Desire for Slaanesh
>Bedlam Staff + Warp Blade for Tzeentch

Now we have two. ONE if you don't play Khorne.

>> No.29819547

>>29819223
i'd rather see a 1k sons supplement to match the next space wolves book. honestly i don't expect another supplement for chaos. that's like another monster hunter 4 actually being translated for the west an-

>mh4 will come to the west in 2015

holy fuck, shut my mouth it might happen.

>>29819501
babies and critters possibly as the girl factor? not sure

>> No.29819589

>>29819501

It's because everything else in 40k is such a ridiculous caricature of masculinity that dudes could laugh at them and chicks would just be confused.

Meanwhile, everyone likes dinosaurs.

>> No.29819597

>>29819501
I'd play Sisters if they turned all-plastic.
I love me some flamers!

>> No.29819619

>>29819547
>Babies and critters possibly the girl factor?
Nah. I mean, maybe a little for some. But I really think it's that the Tyranids have a lot of hobby options without always becoming about tentacles and gruesome stuff. You can paint them in a lot of ways, many of which require attractive patterns if you're into that, and you can sculpt their bodies but still have to follow rules for symmetry so they don't look like defective mutants.

These are things that seem to appeal to the women I played with. They'll get into the humor about the blood god and skulls for the skull throne, but very few really found that satisfactory and I've never met a female player who didn't at least try to paint all her models.

>> No.29819627

>>29819597

Flamers often mean giving up the best thing about sisters, though. Great against some armies/units, less so against others.

At their best, the big thing sisters had going for them was bolters, BS4, being only 11 points, and being able to reliably make any attack rending. For a brief, beautiful moment they were the best army in the game at exactly 12" away.

>> No.29819634

>>29819547

I would fulfill a thousand daemonic oaths to see them remove the "monster hunter" saga from the SW book, or not include it in the next one. Few things pain me more than setting up to play a SW player and see that smug shitbads lips curl as he tells me he's taking the monster slayer oath, which gives his army rerollable wounds against anything T5 or higher. For no points! For fucking free!

As a Death Guard player, the SW armies ability to simply "have" this power is total bullshit and is just another reason that the next time I have the good fortune to meet phil kelly I should spit in his fucking face.

>> No.29819659

>>29819331
We do have them. They jsut suck. And need synapse.

>> No.29819718

>>29819619
As a nid player thats a girl.

Its because they're just weird and cool and for me, the most interesting to model.

Everyone else seems static, Chaos is.. Idk, i just don't like the look.

Nids have a cool organic look that i'm all over, even if one of mine is an old OOE

>> No.29820276

>>29818730
Deathwing are too exspenvie, HQs all get mulched by one power fist hit except for the one guy who you don't want in close combat, whose T5 already but somehow is eternal warrior on top of that with an ap2 weapon. All our special characters are shitty, the synergy is TRYING to be there, but its an overcosted mess, our anti air flyer is niether fast, nor vector dancer, its missiles are all s6, and it has A lascannon shot, and is 11 all around, is ONE HUNDRED AND EIGHTY MOTHERFUCKING GOD DAMN POINTS, Ravenwign were decent right up till white scars came along and just trolled the cunt out of them by being better in every concievable way, and don't nobody bring up black knights because they are 42 pts a fucking model with a 3+ save.

Heres what DA would need AS A START.
Eternal warrior wargear for Belial to go with his terribad warlord trait.
Eternal warrior for Azrael.
10 pts reduction on black knights to 32 pts a head.
Grav gun access.
rework of Ravenwing across the board to match white scars.
75 pt drop on nephilim jetfighter.
Stop trying to make blind happen. Its never going to happen. especially with tau fucking flat out ignoring it on almost all their relevant models.
Deathwing 7 pts cheaper. Sergeants able to take ANY gear other than storm bolter/ power sword.
Azraels blades of reason need an AP or poison.
Make Heavenfall blades ALL ap2.

This would go a long way towards fixing a shitload of the problems with the DA codex.

>> No.29820496

>>29815911
>Pinning
>lel

>> No.29820522

>>29819547
THIS PLEASES JHO

>> No.29821586

>>29820276
Fucking tau man.

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