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[ERROR] No.29788640 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Are there ever instances where the Space Marines are awed, or even afraid of the IG? Reason being that the IG go into battle being unmodified with no powerarmor?

>> No.29788675

Space Marines know no fear.

>> No.29788699

Best I've seen is respect, admiration, and possibly reverence for their faith in the Emperor.

An Ultramarine from that company with the green shoulder pad trim kneels in front of a veteran Ultramar PDF guardsman after the guardsman tells him that he lost his leg but the Ultramarine saved his life, even though the Ultramarine probably didn't remember him.

>> No.29788702

And they shall know no fear.

>> No.29788718

>>29788675

Ok, so never any times when the spehs marines were like "holy fuck, those dudes are badass and they aren't even wearing armor or genetically enhanced"

>> No.29788765

>>29788718
It doesn't sound very Space Marine-like, it would be odd to see.

>> No.29788798

They probably thought Ollanius Pius was a pretty cool guy.
Back when he existed

>> No.29788803

>>29788718

Kinda hard to think that when they're all cowering in trenches while you charge the enemy after they begged for your assistance.

>> No.29788812

If this never happened ever in the entirety of the vastness of the grim darkness of the future, it'd not only be unbelievable, it'd be stupid.

Especially when you consider what the IG can do

>> No.29788843

>>29788798

Ollanius Pius was a space marine terminator though.

>> No.29788854

>>29788640

In the book Helsreach, Grimaldus mentions how even Space Marine Chapter Masters stood to attention out of respect for Commissar Yarrick as a true hero of the Imperium. When one got angry about something Yarrick said, the other SMs basically told him to shut the fuck up.

>> No.29788857

>>29788812
>Especially when you consider what the IG can do

Example?

>> No.29788869

>>29788843
That cant be right. I heard that he was piloting a dredknight.

>> No.29788871

>>29788843

Get the fuck out of here with that shit.

>> No.29788873

>>29788798
He is a Highlander now.

>> No.29788889

>>29788857
I've seen commisars wreck shit as HQs. In lore and out of lore.

>> No.29788897

>>29788803
>cover is for the weak

Or you know, the people that don't have the luxury of wearing a man shaped tank and being genemodded to the point that it's questionable if you're even human anymore.

>> No.29788904

>>29788640
I thinkj there would be times when individual space marines appreciate the imperial guard, and heroism of particular individuals but I dont think theyd appreciate 'having less of a budget' as a form of heroism.

Guardsmen do a lot with very little. Space marines do lots and lots more with lots and lots more.

>> No.29788913

>>29788812

I'm sure the Lamenters have done it before.

But look at them. They're Lamenters.

>> No.29788932

>>29788897
Yes, it turns out that having less super armour and less super powered modifications makes you weaker than someone with those things.

>> No.29788940

>>29788869
>>29788871

Ollanius Pius was Horus's twin brother a la Alpha Legion. He led the Luna Wolves who stayed loyal until Horus cut him down.

>> No.29788945

>>29788857
Get arm bitten off, kill monster with teeth.
Get arm cut off, kill nob (a creature able to kill space marines in close combat) who did it, steal power claw

>> No.29788977

>>29788932
>>29788897

Which is why it's a stupid question to ask if the strong admire the weak for being weak.

>> No.29788997

>>29788803

Is that guardsmen fucking blind firing?

Cadians? The ultramarines of the imperial guard blind firing?

Poor fucker probably got shot in the fucking head by a commissar....

>> No.29789004

Titus was pretty damn impressed with Mira.

>> No.29789017

>>29788803
As cool as it sounds and looks, only a suicidal player wouldn't use cover in the closing waves of Exterminatus. When 10 chaos marines spawn with plasma cannons, you hug that wall

>> No.29789042

>>29788997
shit hits the fan dude, commissar is probably dead

>> No.29789088

>>29788857
Fight chaos space marine in close combat and not loose.

>> No.29789096

>>29788997
He's laying down suppressing fire, the goal of suppressing fire is not to hit things, but to keep the other guy's heads down so your guys can move up.

>>29788857
Call down artillery.

>> No.29789111

>>29788977
But it's a question of the strong admiring the weak for being brave.

>> No.29789132

>>29789004
>men are pretty damn impressed with boobs

>> No.29789187

>>29789111
>implying the strong aren't just as brave, if not more so

You know marines have higher leadership values and the Fearless rule right?

>> No.29789290

>>29789187
If you're fearless you can't be brave.

Being brave is acting despite being afraid. Being fearless is being so disconnected from being human that you can no longer feel life preserving emotions.

Acting despite being afraid is admirable. Acting despite not being able to feel fear is just doing stuff.

>> No.29789310

>>29789187
It's easy to be brave when you're a nine foot tall superhuman.

>> No.29789409

Space marines can be "proud" or respectful of IG regiments, but I've never seen one get afraid of IG.

>> No.29789421

>>29789290

In 40k fear just makes your punches less accurate.

>> No.29789427

>>29788812
>it'd not only be unbelievable, it'd be stupid
Par the course for 40k then.

>> No.29789451

>>29789290
>>29789310

The point is if you don't know what fear is how can you admire someone for overcoming it?

What is basic logic.

>> No.29789478

>>29789427

In their hearts, they knew they could never be Guardsmen.

>> No.29789511

>>29789132
He is an ultramarine, not a spess yiff.

>> No.29789608

>>29789451
They know no fear.

A lot of them used to be humans, and some were even Imperial Guard. They know what it's like to have fear and overcome it, but they only know how by augmentation and other physical means.

>> No.29789695

I'd wager that at least one chapter is afraid of what the Catachans could do if they were ever to fight for some reason.

>> No.29789868

>>29789608
>some were even Imperial Guard

Is this nigger serious.

>> No.29790083

>>29789290
Bullshit. Fearlessness is INFINITELY better then "Oh I'm afraid, but I'll somehow do shit anyway". From a pure objective standpoint, you can do shit easier by calculating risk and knowing no fear, then you can by barely controlling and dealing with terror.

The Space Marines shouldn't admire the Guards for being less psychologically resilient then them.

>> No.29790152

>>29790083
I am 99% certain I remember your particular brand of autistic idiocy. My answer remains the same: damn hard to learn how to properly calculate risk when your sense of fear is stunted.

>> No.29790165

>>29788640
this isn't IG but I remember Garro from the flight of eisenstein novel realizing the sacrifice his man servant made for him and he was showing about as much reverence for a normal human that a SM could.

>> No.29790211

>>29790152
Not really. A mind clean of emotion [whether good or bad] can easily realize "Oh shit, sharp things hurt me when they go in my flesh" and "If someone has a gun, stay behind cover".

There is a reason modern militaries teach people to act efficiently without anger or terror in combat. Because it gets you killed. Even a retreat is supposed to be done orderly.

>> No.29790220

>>29790152

Shouldn't you be more adept at calculating risks due to not fearfully proscribing greater than accurate risks to certain things out of fear?

>> No.29790235

>>29790083
It might be better, but it doesn't make you something to looked up to and respected. Just makes you autistic, but with fear instead of social situations.

Facing danger and feeling no fear while acting is the same as doing an office job, boring and doesn't really deserve recognition.

Acting despite shitting your pants in terror though? That deserves a parade.

>> No.29790249

>>29790235
>It might be better, but it doesn't make you something to looked up to and respected.

Nice try faggot. The argument right now isn't whether or not IG should respect marines, but whether or not marines respect IG.

>> No.29790276

>>29790235
Not really. If I saw Dilbert kill 5000 men and save my city, I'd think him much better then the guy who killed 30 people and then shit his pants, made a simple mistake and died.

>> No.29790308

In Eisenhorn, a Space Marine expresses admiration for a group of Guardsmen who learned how to fight in non-euclidian Chaosspace. A firefight starts out in some weird in-between dimension, and the Marine can't hit shit while the Guardsmen kill everything because they're the only ones who can hit things. That's as close to that as I can remember.

>> No.29790410

>>29788699

I saw that comic. He recalled fighting off Eldar corsairs. He lost his arm, and the Space Marine did remember that fight, if not that marine. The Ultramarine was thankful that, in a time of self-crisis for him, someone came along and reminded him of his purpose.

>>29788640

I remember one anecdote where a Space Marine charges alongside dozens of other guardsmen, and feels awed by their sense of duty and bravery even as they died right beside him. I mean, he was a genetically enhanced warrior breed clad in tough as shit armor and they were just men in flak jackets and they charged with just the same amount of courage and fury.

>> No.29790484

>>29790211
no, what they do is instil muscle memory and reactions

they don't remove fear and they do encourage aggression.

the military doesn't care if you're scared or angry, they only care if you can function regardless of those two emotions.

>> No.29790496

>>29788897
Aka the weak. Space marines will have varying opinions of the guard ranging from disdain to respect to comradirie. They realize they have entirely different roles and places within the military organization so it's a bit more complicated as that.

Space marines may have the best armor, weapons, and physiology, but they also had to train very hard and earn that. They also have an enormously larger amount of responsibility and importance to bear than the average guardsmen. It is like a wolf to an ant.

>> No.29790515

>>29790496
>but they also had to train very hard and earn that

Don't 99% of neophytes either die or become crippled chapter serfs/servitors?

PDF and IG is far safer in comparison until you see actual combat.

>> No.29790535

>>29789421
I lol'd.

>> No.29790593

>>29790276
This is why we need another world war. Spoiled little shits like you who have no respect for the deep valor displayed by the common soldier in the face of hell.

>> No.29790688

>>29790593
Its not deep valor, its called psychological weakness. It isn't bravery if you shit yourself so hard afterwards that you suffer severe nightmares, mentally break down, and freak so bad they have to invent a whole new disease [PTSD] just to explain how badly you broke under pressure.

Bravery is dealing with horrible things and then going home and everything is normal still. We go, we fight, we come home and have a drink, get married and 2.5 kids and a dog. Thats bravery.

I suppose technically putting up with shit under pressure is better then breaking under pressure, but you're lying if you say its better then just plain out conquering fear entirely with willpower.

>> No.29790711

>>29790515
Yes most get weeded out, and that's after a super selective selection process. After that they devote themselves to training 99% of the time that they aren't engaged in some super dire high stakes battle/operation/war.

A space marine is basically so far removed from what is human both physically and emotionally that they are basically an abhuman cyborg.


There is also so much invested in one space marine that they realize their importance well.

>> No.29790718

>>29790496
IG Veterans have to survive countless battles whistle having commanders that range from mildly competent to utterly retarded while wearing no more than a flak jacket and wielding a lasgun. All little to no enhancements beyond the occasional cybernetic.

>> No.29790742

>>29790718
*all with little to no

>> No.29790756

>>29790083
No it isn't.
Fearlessness gets you killed and compromises the mission.

>> No.29790777

>>29789096
>suppressing fire
>against Orks

Still not a clever guardsman

>> No.29790783

>>29789868

The fluff is inconsistent on this matter, don't pretend it isn't. There hasn't been an explicit "taken in childhood" statement in a long while.

>> No.29790785

By fearlessness I mean nothing more or less then the absence of psychological fear. Acting coldly and efficiently like a machine. And supposing you're not an idiot too, that won't get you killed.

It will do the opposite of getting you killed. It will make the mission succeed.

>> No.29790792

>>29790688
>this poster is actually a living, human being who formed this opinion.

I hope you are trolling, for all the brave soldiers of WW1's sake.

And if you think your grandpa who stormed Normandy but never talked about it and seemed like he did just fine didn't have any PTSD, I got news for ya kid, he most likely did, but kept it quite private. Most in the WW2 generation hid it stoically, but if you talk to their wives they often reveal how haunted they secretly were from the war even 60 years on.

>> No.29790819

>>29790792
I'm not. I don't know if I could personally do what I'm describing, but I see zero reason why what I'm describing would not be better then fear, breakdown, and PTSD.

>> No.29790824

>>29790783

And there's never been an explicit "taken from the IG" statement ever.

>> No.29790846

>>29790777
Orks don't like getting shot at too much, just a lil bit to keep it interesting. Especially when lots of boyz start dying cause then it ain't fun no more. (Represented by mob rule on the TT).

>> No.29790848

>>29790756

Fearlessness and brashness aren't the same thing. Just because you're fearless doesn't mean you jump in front of tank treads. It means you hold the line better than the guys' whose entire shtick is "Hold the line!", potentially long enough to do something that creates a rout.

>> No.29790867

>>29790792
Still, he went and did and saw horrible things. Its natural that their would be psycological backlash from that. Someone should be neither idolised nor demonised for giving into mental illness, but of the options it is better not to be sick than to be sick.

>> No.29790893

>>29790792
>for all the brave soldiers of WW1's sake.

WW1 and 2 may have had higher death tolls but modern engagements are far more protracted, modern soldiers fight for far longer, and there is more PTSD-related stuff flying around.

>> No.29790942

>>29790824

But there are plenty of "valorous men who prove themselves" being made into marines satements like the entire Spce Wolf chapter and every marine in it. it's not at all impossible to imagine that if a guardsman demonstrated extreme potential in front of ally marines that they would initiate him.

Hell with the gorillions of IG out there and the billions of battles they fight daily it'd be idiotic deny it happening at least once.

Hell jus tto spite you I'm going to write up a chapter that was formed out of nothing but IG and start two hundred General threads for it to remind you everyday how you've missed the entire point of this setting and it's associated hobby.

>> No.29791013

>>29790942

Recruiting from warrior stock from your recruitment world is nothing similar to pulling active servicemen out of the IG to use as neophytes in a completely separate organization.

It would be the same as saying a chapter recruited from SoB or the Inquisition.

>> No.29791044

>>29790942
>implying I care what you do

You can do it if you want, I'm sure some other sperglord will shitpost in your threads for me. I'm just pointing out you're wrong. You can get upset all you like but the point remains there is no written source for IG being turned into marines, even from BL or FFG.

It probably happened in RT but that's the setting where Obiwan Sherlock Clouseau is a thing.

>> No.29791243

>>29790819
>extreme hyper vigilance for extended periods of time
>constant high levels of stress
>adaptation to an environment with constant threat of death

>calling the consequences of living through the above three a psychological weakness

no

go away

>> No.29791281

>>29791243
>>extreme hyper vigilance for extended periods of time
>>constant high levels of stress
>>adaptation to an environment with constant threat of death

Like Space Marines!

>>calling the consequences of living through the above three a psychological weakness

Like you guys have been doing for Space Marines!

>> No.29791285

>>29790942
I think you've misinterpreted guardsmen being inducted into the chapter as serfs or armsmen.

>> No.29791294

>>29791281

>fantasy
>real life

how do you function?

>> No.29791302

>>29791294
>asking that on /tg/

>> No.29791321

>>29791281
>>extreme hyper vigilance for extended periods of time
>>constant high levels of stress
>>adaptation to an environment with constant threat of death

>Like Space Marines!

yes, however, those three conditions are stated in relation to your average human soldier.

>> No.29791430

>>29790688
No, anon. What you described is a sociopath. Bravery is showing courage, which is acting in the face of fear.

>> No.29791483

>>29790848
Fearlessness breeds brashness. If everyone was fearless they would just charge the enemy and get cut down.

Fear keeps soldiers thinking smart.

>> No.29791515

>>29791281
Space Marines aren't humans. They're basically BioRobots.

>> No.29791526

>>29791483

Marines are disciplined and trained enough to not need fear as a motivator to self preserve when necessary. Try harder guardbaby.

>> No.29791565

>>29791515
They're basically humans, just humans who have been reduced into twisted, acid spewing, brain eating abominations, sculpted by the hand of a soul eating freak-god.

>> No.29791630

>>29791483
>If everyone was fearless they would just charge the enemy and get cut down.

This makes no sense whatsoever. How do you even come to this conclusion?

Are you scared of controlled flames? Of course not. But you don't put your hand on the stove.

>> No.29791701

>>29791430
Sociopaths have been proven to be better commanding officers and leaders of men in combat situations.

>> No.29791789

>>29791565
Sound more like bio robots to me.

>> No.29791850

>Implying Spess Muhreens are more interesting and braver than IG

Lol. Are you high? Space Mary-Sues vs. the common soldier. Well fuck, if I was eight feet tall and all but resistant to bullets, I wouldn't be scared either. Yet the common man still fights for his place in the universe, and that is FAR more interesting.

>> No.29791855

>>29791850

IG are more sue since they do the same stuff but are weaker.

>> No.29791989

>>29791855
They do nothing close to the same stuff while losing thousands more men than necessary.

>> No.29792116

>>29791989

Its the attitudes of a lot of IG players that make people dislike them. I know an IG player who makes me just flat up hate the army. He is bad and should feel bad. His attitude. His building his entire list around alpha strikes. His in flexibility of always running the same basic list all the time despite having 5 full fast attack options in his collection. The worst is he complains to no end that everyone always tailors against him WHEN THEY FUCKING WOULDN'T"T IF HE WAS NOT SPAMMING AV 14 AND LORDS OF FUCKING WAR EVERY GOD DAMNED GAME HOLY SHIT OF COURSE WE SPAM MELTA YOU PIECE OF SHIT MONGOLOID STOP ACTING LIKE YOUR AN ETERNAL VICTIM AND US TAKING THE UNITS WE NEED TO SURVIVE YOUR ALPHA STRIKE IS THE SECOND SHOAH!

>> No.29792200

>>29792116

This. IG players, especially older guys who started the game back in 3rd edition or 4th edition get extremely indignant about special rules. They will complain about them like it was 12 years ago and not everything had them and treat you like a cheater for having a Jink save or the ability to JSJ. Heaven forbid you make it Night Fighting somehow. In my experience they also would rather just have min troops murderboner game than play missions. If it was just one guy I wouldn't mind but EVERY IG player I know is 35+ and exactly like this.

>> No.29792429

>>29789017
>Cover is for the weak
Real men abuse the combat roll and spamming moves that heal you.

>> No.29792482

>>29792200
I like IG, but it seems to appeal to the guy who didn't really want to play 40k. He wanted to play flames of war - but no one else around him did.

>> No.29792796

>>29792116
A big contributor to this though is shit game design.

Any game where a player can remove half of the other guy's army before the opponent even got to move has got serious problems. IG are from from the only ones. Tau, eldar, I even saw an ork player do it once. Those IG players who just destroy the other guy turn 1 would do the same regardless of what army they had. IG just used to be one of the best choices to so it with.

This problem is so bad that when I would play my infantry guard, people would actually get worried. They thought I had found some loophole to put down a 150 guardsmen AND all the tanks the leafblower lists would take. Its fucking ridiculous

>> No.29792802

>>29790893
Ah, but how much of that is due to the differences between the engagement, and how much is due to more easily disseminated (not what that word means!) information and a greater degree of awareness to mental illness?
I'll remind you that during the time period of the first and second world war, being mentall ill meant you were confined in an institution and essentially tortured ad nauseum until you're given a forced lobotomy, at which point "the patient experienced a sudden and marked reduction in stress."
You really think there was less PTSD back then, or there just SEEMED to be?

>> No.29792822

>>29792802
It was also called "Shell Shock" and "Battle Fatigue" back then. Remember that one time Patton slapped the "Coward Soldier"?

>> No.29792889

>>29789096
But what if he suppressing fire backs since his head is also down? Then everyone is suppressing fire and all ammo is out/ energy is gone. THEN WAT? Knife fighting?

>> No.29793027

>>29792482
Kind of. I know guys who did that, but not a lot.

Most guys pick IG because the IG is what makes the other races special. Ever heard the phrase "if everyone is special, no one is"? IG are the norm all the other factions get compared to, and helps make them unique, ironically, by being the only "normal" faction.

That's where the main appeal comes from. These are regular guys fighting some of the most dangerous killing machines in the universe with antiquated equipment and an incredibly inflexible command structure full of red tape. It makes every win feel like a major victory despite all odds.

At least it does if you played something besides leafblower in 5th ed

The problem is most people only think of a faction by its cheesy lists. Tau get vilified over riptides and suits, Necrons got vilified over their air force shenanigans, etc. So instead of the IG being known as the faction that has to fight tooth and nail for every victory, its known as the army for TFG's that want to shoot you off the table turn one.

>> No.29793076

>>29792482
I can kind of see that, but speaking for myself I'd never even heard of Flames of War before I got interested in 40k. I was drawn to them by their... I guess you could call it mundanity. No power armour, no magical shenanigans, no genemodding, etc. Just dudes with laser guns, ridiculously high-caliber tank shells, and the best artillery in the galaxy.

>> No.29793186

>>29791701
[citation needed]

>> No.29793343

Only thing I can think of offhand that comes close is in one of the Uriel Ventris novels when he gives a purity seal from his own armor to a wounded pdf trooper for charging a carnifex or something.

>> No.29793397

>>29792822
I did not, so I looked it up. I'm generally more interested in history a bit further off than that, so...
http://www.vva.org/archive/TheVeteran/2005_03/feature_HistoryPTSD.htm

Apparently, yeah, you could be locked in an insane asylum for it about the time of the civil war. See what I said about the living conditions for those confined to insane asylums. Fortunately, at the moment, we've (sorry, speaking as an American) left off with institutionalized torture for the mentally ill, and instead are running a platform where we hand them a bit of dosh mostly to stay the fuck out of the way.

"Unfortunately, the attitude that combat veterans with psychological problems are really malingerers trying to gain economically is still with us today. That attitude, combined with veterans’ pride and distrust, accounts for the fact that, while a Research Triangle Institute study concludes 830,000 Vietnam veterans have full-blown or partial PTSD, only 55,119 have filed claims, and the adjudication boards have only believed 28,411 (July 1990) of those claimants."

>> No.29793822

>>29793397
The definition and understanding of what it is and what causes it has been evolving over a long period of time with our understanding of psychology and mental ills.

>> No.29793991

>>29793822
Addendum: However Dick-Zooka never changes.

>> No.29793992

>>29788640
By what I've read every single time emotions of any sort start surfacing the marine suppresses them.(most chapters that is)

>> No.29794721

>>29793822
Apologies, my initial and only goal was to refute, or at least draw attention to,
>>29790893
the assertion that "there is more PTSD-related stuff flying around" [now].
Mostly by pointing out that there were previously more reasons to hide your own PTSD, as well as the PTSD of those you care for, regardless of terminology.

>> No.29794963

>>29794721
Oh no, I was only expanding and boiling down. That was a pretty good article.

>> No.29795196

>>29788997
That's the Gears of War blind fire stance. The art was commissioned as a joke about the prominence of cover based shooters in modern games.

>> No.29795267

>>29793992
Then you've read very little and none of it canon.

>> No.29795363

>>29788640
No. They are too busy being mary sues

>> No.29795896

>>29790893
>More PTSD-related stuff flying around
>No mustard gas
>No chlorine gas
>No trench foot
>Much less getting killed by your own shit blowing up in your face
>No being stuck in the same trench for weeks and months on end
>No not having enough medical supplies to save the sick and wounded
>No infections from lack of said supplies
>No being stuck in a trench with corpses that you can't get rid of because you get shot if you leave the trench
>No watching the flies eat your dead buddies
>No being out of food and clean water
>No not having no shelter apart from the floor of a muddy trench
>No pilots having an average lifespan of 12 days
Yeah, no. Modern war is a fucking hugbox compared to WW1. Shell shock was a big thing back then.

>> No.29795903

>>29788798
Pius never TECHNICALLY existed except as an in-universe figure of legend. Whether he actually did what the legend says was intentionally left vague.

>> No.29796128

>>29795896
>"you kids have it easy these days, back when WE went to war..."

Fuck off all soldiers are heroes.

>> No.29796166

>>29796128
I'm not saying they aren't. I'm just saying that it was even worse back then. Lotsa suicide.

>> No.29796232

>>29796128

>All soldiers are heroes

Fuck off, that attitude lets soldiers get away with too much shit like rape, pillaging and other war crimes.

Soldiers should be put under the same scrutiny as everyone else. Even more so since soldiers hold a gun and are in a position of power.

>> No.29796248

>>29796232
This

>> No.29796299

>>29796232
>what is context

Fuck off you don't tell honorable men and women who return home after serving their countries not a hero just because you're a faggot or they didn't sit in a WW1 trench.

>> No.29796314

>>29796232

By your logic all members of your ethnicity are degenerates.

>> No.29796342

>>29796128
>all soldiers are heroes.
I know a guy who is military, and he told me that if a soldier calls another soldier a hero, that hero is most likely dead, or crippled for life.

Soldiers aren't heroes, they're doing a job. A soldier who throws himself on a grenade to save his buddies, charges impossible odds to buy people time to escape, or drags a wounded man dozens of miles through hostile territory is a hero. He puts his life in extreme danger, a level of danger your run-of-the-mill private will never experience, for little to no gain for himself.

Most soldiers are there for a paycheck and the perks, just like everyone else who wants a job. Some of those are sociopathic bastards who just want to kill some sand niggers. Some of them genuinely want to fight for their country. Few of them are actually willing to put their lives on the line for no reason other than it being the right thing to do, and they're the heroes.

Go talk to some soldiers, boy. It's not all AMERICA FUCK YEAH, it's 90% propaganda, 9% avoiding the subject, 1% worth it.

>> No.29796344

>>29796299

If a man returns as a war criminal, he's a war criminal, not a hero. Hell, if all soldiers were heroes, we wouldn't have any wars in the first place, because why would two heroes fight each other?

If anyone's out there's the honourable hero, it's the people who fight tooth and nail to stop war in the first place while less honourable men prepare their guns.

>tl;dr armies and war can suck my dick

>> No.29796411

>>29792116
>>29792200
>>29792796
Completely agree with all this. IG are an amazingly interesting faction, but by god they are fuckin boring pie plate spamming shit on the table.

Though it looks like the alternative is 500 guardsmen... yeah fuck that

>> No.29796462

>>29796411
You can run even more conscripts or whatever with that soviet-like commander dude I forget the name of.

>> No.29796573

>>29790593
Hey now, wanting a war is no way to respect the fallen.
I'd take a horde of bratty shit heads getting to live over a single decent soldier having to die any day.

>> No.29796580

>>29790688
4/10
Identified an emotive subject, but lacking in execution, would not feed again

>> No.29796618

>>29788854

tbh Yarrick is more of a warboss than a human at this point

>> No.29796663

>>29790593

No, the reason we need another war is to teach bratty shits that war is a terrible fucking idea and wishing for war is the sign of a bratty shit.

Mature grown-up people of wisdom don't want war. They want uninteresting times with a partner, 2,5 kids and a family pet.

Only brats think war is a good idea.

>> No.29797156

>>29795896

this,

Even during WW2 with all its terrors and deaths, there were a lot less cases of PTSD. Especiall in allied units, since they had really good rotation cycles. Germans, and Soviets had it worse, but still better than any records during WW1

>> No.29797167

>>29794721
Not to mention a lot of PTSD soldiers in WW1 were literally drooling messes who were constantly shaking and cringing. The cases from Iraq and Afghanistan pale in comparison. Some of those guys lived in filthy trenches among rats and corpses, and got shelled 24/7.

>> No.29797577

>>29796663
To be fair I was being hyperbolic. I have served in war and realize it's not something that should ever be wished for. I also realize that our modern wars have been nothing compared to the world wars. It's just frustrating to see someone that probably still lives in his mom's basement and paints warhammer dollies all day cast judgement on who and who isn't brave in IRL battle.

>> No.29798066

>>29790718
Luck isn't might.

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