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[ERROR] No.29674936 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Why do the Dark Angels get all the nicest toys? I mean, the "First Legion" thing can't be the only excuse, it doesn't explain how they can still make jetbikes for instance.

Why are they the rich kid legion, in essence?

>> No.29674985

Xenos technology

>> No.29674992

They can't make jetbikes. Only Sammael, master of the ravenwing has one. That's said to be the last one.

>> No.29674996

I don't remember this being said anywhere.

>> No.29674999

Thats mysteriously returns every time its destroyed

>> No.29675011

Yeah i totally believe that the space marines with xenos that chill with them totally doesn't use xenos technology

and they're also definitely not TRAITORS

>> No.29675017

And it says in their 6e codex that jetbike has been destroyed countless times and reappears time and time again.
So either they have a shitload of them in some chamber hidden in the Rock or they ca make new ones.

Same bit mentions their successors have been seen to have one dude who rides around on a jetbike as well.

>> No.29675018

It's because they are the only ones who have a living primarch in the Materium.

And yet, even with the most shiny toys and a daddy, they still suck more than Ahriman's boys.

>> No.29675039

They value it high and I guess the guy is able to repair his sweet ride. I agree with the fact that it's strange though.

>> No.29675046

I have no idea what you mean. The Dark Angels Legion is the most pious legion of all and has never at any point turned against the Emperor.

Also, would you step this way? I'd like to discuss something with you.

>> No.29675058

It might be saved by GW's inability to move the plot forward.

>> No.29675060

>I guess the guy is able to repair his sweet ride
It specifically says they manage to get a new one even when it's been blown to tiny little bits.

>> No.29675063

Sure thing brother.

The names bond.

Inquisitor James Bond.

>> No.29675078

>they still suck more than Ahriman's boys
Those niggers are ALMOST as whiny as the Night Lords.

>> No.29675083

Well admittedly the night lords are all fucked up

because the emperor is a moron

>> No.29675093

According to Pandrox and the digital fluff about the Dark Angels, the Inquisition is sick of the Dark Angels and are planning or directly moving to call war on the Dark Angels.

Can the Angels survive the wrath of the Inquisition?

>> No.29675097


Full faggots.

>> No.29675102


It's a demon possesed machine that Will Not Die.

Dark Angles are the only "loyal" legion which changed their color scheme and their 'fallen' counterparts did not.
All Loyal Legions kept their colors, all Traitors changed theirs. Think about it.

>> No.29675105

Probably, they're still effectively legion strength

>> No.29675106

They do? Did not know this. Checked some sources and you seem to be right about your point. Thanxmate.

>> No.29675123

That's not true at all. Draigo personally blamed them for the disappearance of whatshisface and said that if he ever got proof they'd taken him he'd bring the full wrath of the Inquisition on them.

Since they didn't take him, I seriously doubt he'd get that proof. Also he's gone by 999.M41.

>> No.29675124

>Shitty jets compared to Stormtalons
>No Stormravens
>No Centurions
>No Thunderfire Cannons
>No Special Issue Ammunition
>No Air Defence Rhinos

but of course they are the favourites who get all the best wargear because

>muh jetbikes

>> No.29675125

A Grey Knight is worth a hundred normal marines.

>> No.29675126

Most of them didn't even like their primarch

but you know all sorts of fucked up psychic shit

>> No.29675130

I ment in-game they suck, but yeah, let's go with that. They're whiny bitches too.

And yes Capcha, they Love hatstse.

>> No.29675136

HH completely shits on that point, since Lion walks around going "MAN I AM SO LOYAL AS FUCK" in his head.

>> No.29675144

I like to pretend the HH books don't exist, because their existence has fucked up part of the mystique

>> No.29675146

This explains what their Dark Secret is. Luther and his followers wanted the Angels to help the Emperor while the Lion wanted to sit the Heresy out to see which side won.

>> No.29675149

Ooohohohoho it is soooo hard to make a jetbike when you have landspeeders, and gravchutes the size of pocketcalculators

>> No.29675150

>I ment in-game they suck

They really don't, they are fairly competitive, even if they have their problems, you just have to avoid the shit units

>> No.29675156

Toplel, Grey Knights die like any other Marine. They're good at fighting daemons and not much else.

>> No.29675157

I'm talking about canonically. Also, there is absolutely no proof they don't have that shit, especially considering their codex came out before the Space Marines one.

>> No.29675173

>nice things
>picture of the singe worst flier in 40k
its like you're trying to be cruel

>> No.29675181

The Draigo bit shows that the Grey Knights know about the Fallen and what's beneath the rock. This means other parts of Inquisition know.

The Dark Angels has pushed the Inquisition too much. All the team killing and secret hoarding didn't go unnoticed. Some Inquisitors are calling for other Space Marine chapters to war with the Dark Angels.

It's a dangerous line the Dark Angels are walking. It's gonna snap at anytime!

>> No.29675193

>Toplel, Grey Knights die like any other Marine.
As a matter of fact, no. They are, canonically, way better as marines than any other marines. There's even a test of purity for Space Marines that involves fighting a grey knight in hand to hand combat, and if you win that means you're tainted.

>> No.29675196

hey inquisitor bond! im inquisitor not-cypher and boy do i love being lawful good

>> No.29675199

Stop listening to Ward.

The GRey knights are overhyped anyways, Exorcists are the mk2 of them that rock.

>> No.29675201

>considering their codex came out before the Space Marines one

The Stormtalon existed by then, the Stormraven existed by then, the Thunderfire cannon existed by then, Sternguard with special issue ammo existed by then.

>> No.29675204

Yeah, and as we all know the unstoppable Tau/Eldar alliance is shitting all over the Imperium in 40k's canon.

Except not, because fluff isn't crunch and you are a moron.

>> No.29675224

Yeah, and giving them all that shit would have made them even more "Ultramarines who wear robes".

Give me evidence they don't actually possess those things.

>> No.29675227

When did the Dark Angels fight Necrons?

>> No.29675228

Don't forget grav weapons
> assemble space marines
> GW employee says paint them as space marines so I can use the dark vengance box as soon as I've assembled all its stuff
> paint all of them
> first game against a tau player
> " dark angels can't use grav weapons"
> offer to just consider it as a plasma gun
> he says no
> 1 tactical squad of 9 guys

I think he didnt want me having a grav guy because it probably would have done a fair amount of damage to his double tiptoes

>> No.29675255

>Stop listening to Ward
That's from Black Library. It is a test taken by two Ultramarines at the same time against one Grey Knight.
They lose.

>> No.29675273

Stop listening to Mcneill

>> No.29675286

* riptides
I knew this phones machine spirit didnt like me!

>> No.29675287

Its a stupid test.

We all know that lord smurficus himself could RAPE him some gK

>> No.29675297

Five according to the Grand Masters. They're wrong though, it's clearly seven and a half.

>> No.29675310

>The matter might have ended there had not the Inquisitor returned to the Silver Eagles’ homeworld with the devastated companies, informing the Chapter Master of what had happened and requesting the Silver Eagles assist him in chastising the Dark Angels for their behaviour. Understandably reluctant to declare war on the First Legion, Chapter Master Periphas first sent emissaries to the Rock to ask for an explanation and recompense. Azrael himself was forced to attend to Periphas’ demands, taking him away from the Tower of Angels for a considerable time. Meanwhile, during Azrael’s absence, Asmodai was restricted to his chambers and the chapel. On his return, the Supreme Grand Master asked if Asmodai had any regrets over what had happened, to which the Chaplain replied that he regretted not killing the Inquisitor when he had the opportunity.

Disgusting teamkillers.

>> No.29675313

Exorcists are completely inferior you faggot.

They are fallible, take more casualties to daemons, and don't weaken daemons by being near them. They also get less toys.

>> No.29675323

Well, clearly against such an esteemed warrior they'd send someone suited to his mightiness.

Like Lord Kaldor Draigo.

>> No.29675324

That fucking makes no sense. If they're tainted, that means they are weaker than a grey knight because aparently grey knights > chaos. If the marines win it shows that not only are they uncurrupted, but are serious bad assets to boot.

>> No.29675342

Hey guys kind of unrelated question. I'm building a DA army and I'm interested in getting a contemptor dreadnought.

>a) Which of the forgeworld books has the points and options for this
>b) Are they that much better than regular or venerable dreadnoughts?

In case youre wondering I wanted to do the double assault cannont/missile launcher build for the contemptor. Are the missile launchers and its stats that much better than just going double assault cannons on a regular dreadnought?

>> No.29675347

>If they're tainted, that means they are weaker than a grey knight because aparently grey knights > chaos
The logic is "only someone with the backing of the Dark Gods could beat up a Grey Knight!"
It's all very Malleus Maleficarum.

>> No.29675351

How? They're like un-re-possesable
>take more casualties to daemons
97:1 ain't bad kid
>don't weaken daemons by being near them
Instead they're INVISIBLE to Daemons
Oh,and the recruitment population is way better cause they're not all psykers

>> No.29675358

You mean the special DA Mortis Dreadnought that they get because of their cool toys? Because those are damn good AA platforms.

>> No.29675375

>Yeah, and giving them all that shit would have made them even more "Ultramarines who wear robes".
>Give me evidence they don't actually possess those things.

Give me evidence that space marines don't actually possess Avatars of Khaine.

Give me evidence that space marines don't possess Bloodthirsters.

Give me evidence that space marines don't possess Hive Tyrants.

>> No.29675376


Ya those ones I guess. From what I read they're awesome AA and just good dakka in general.

>> No.29675380

Even if that were true, a first founding legion can call on a lot of reserves. Unless the =][= can bring some serious evidence to bear, it's not unlikely that other first founding chapters would get involved on principle on top of the Unforgiven and any non-marine allies they may have.

>> No.29675382

god holy fuck it was a joke, it was a joke about how he said "get the best gifts in fluff" and used a picture of a flier that is worthless in every way in crunch and i was making pointing out how that was "Cruel" because aforementioned. it was lighthearted and jovial and you are so mad about this. calm down, drink some water, most people are dehydrated these days

>> No.29675385

>They're like un-re-possesable
1% relapsing in their maiden battle, and that does not mean they are immune to chaos.
>97:1 ain't bad kid
Ha. I'd really like to see a GK kill ratio vs. daemons.
>Instead they're INVISIBLE to Daemons
The fuck is this said?
>Oh,and the recruitment population is way better cause they're not all psykers
That makes them directly worse at fighting daemons in itself.

>> No.29675405

Best option is the Contemptor Mortis. It's a spectacular piece of gear, you can find the latest rules I believe in IA: Aeronautica

>> No.29675412

Because none of those things are things that any given codex chapter has. Codex chapters like the Dark Angels. Want to make some more false analogies?

>> No.29675415

1% is pretty good
97:1 is INSANE against daemons
the invisible to daemons thing is part of their lore
Psykers are way more valuable than a normal marine initiate that becomes a daemonic killing machine post training

>> No.29675424

>DA and successors Codex chapters

>> No.29675428

There were two Legions called Wolves and two called Angels.
Only one of the Wolves are loyal, think about it.

>> No.29675433

>Codex chapters like the Dark Angels

>Whole second company is bikers

want to make some more false analogies?

>> No.29675434

in that case i fully feel your pain and i want you to know we are all here for you. you don't need to lash out, you don't need to be angry anymore. you are not alone. you are so strong.

>> No.29675452

Want me to quote the bit from the Codex that says they are a Codex Chapter with only minor deviations? Because I can do that.

>> No.29675475

>believing dark angels propaganda

>> No.29675482

Thanks anon. Hmm so I'm seeing a difference of 1 BS, 1 strength and 1 armor, plus those 2 cool special rules. Do normal Mortis dreadnoughts not have the Skyfire and Interceptor rules? The random Forgeworld faq I found off google doesn't list it but just wanted to make sure since I'm fairly new and don't have any of the forgeworld books.

>> No.29675486

>1% is pretty good
0% is better.
>97:1 is INSANE against daemons
Yeah, it is, but it doesn't make them better than the "WE EXIST TO SHIT ON DAEMONS" chapter.
>the invisible to daemons thing is part of their lore
I thought it just made them very hard to corrupt. I'll take your word on it.
Still not as good as bloodletters literally melting around Grey Knights.
>Psykers are way more valuable than a normal marine initiate that becomes a daemonic killing machine post training
Hardly. They can afford to kill a thousand a day for the Emperor and kill more for the Astronomican. Difference is psykers are pretty much your best bet against Warp bullshit.

Don't get me wrong, Exorcists rock. Grey Knights are just way better at killing daemons.

>> No.29675492


Try telling that to the Space Wolves.

>> No.29675499

You're missing the point
Psykers are rare.
A psyker thats fit to be a space marine? Jesus christ.

When I say they're gray Knights 2.0 i mean they're the effective mass production version

Sure, you have those fancy ass prototypes, with all the bells and whistles

But you can't make 10 chapters of them

You could make a legion of Exorcists, the fuckers are mass production daemon slaying machines

Carcharodons forever tho

>> No.29675501

How are they not? The only real way they flout the Codex is being secretly still a Legion, but they do still abide by the letter of the Codex in most ways.

>> No.29675514


Except for the organisation and use of 20% of their Chapter Strength.

>> No.29675539

>Exorcists rock. Grey Knights are just way better at killing daemons.
Different guy here, but this is pretty much it. There's a reason the Inquisition uses both. Is the same reason they have Exterminautus, but don't use it on every problem. GK are the better daemon killers, while Exorcists can actually be deployed alongside non-expendable allies, and against a broader spectrum of foes.

On an unrelated note, FW Captain Alberec of the Exorcists+BT chapter tactics and a psyker Inquisitor make Pink Horrors cry

>> No.29675550

Ha. Will you show me where it says the Codex says "NO PUTTING ALL YOUR VETERANS IN TERMINATOR ARMOR"? Because I seriously doubt it does.

So, 10% at best, and even then according to Index Astartes Codex Chapters have a specific company that specializes in Fast Attack, it's just not the 2nd.

>> No.29675551


Iron Warriors and Night Lords didn't.

>> No.29675573

>but they do still abide by the letter of the Codex in most ways.
>Watchers in the Dark
>plasma on everything
>Dark Talon
>Inner Circle
>Companyn Veterans instead of a Veteran Company

>> No.29675583


The fast attack companies are reserve, not primary battle company.

Putting all your veterans in terminator and moving power armored veterans to every single company instead of having a single veteran company.

DA are nothing like the codex you're retarded.

>> No.29675606

>they have special vehicles so they're not codex!
Anon pls.
>Putting all your veterans in terminator and moving power armored veterans to every single company instead of having a single veteran company.
Ever heard of Veteran Sergeants?
>The fast attack companies are reserve, not primary battle company.
So... they moved companies around.

I suppose the Crimson Fists aren't codex because their First Company has 128 dudes.

>> No.29675623

>>they have special vehicles so they're not codex!

Look at the Blood Angels. All they did was add nitrous to their tanks and BAM! Get their own codex.

>> No.29675640

>Ever heard of Veteran Sergeants?

Since when did veteran sergeants band together to form a squad for each company outside the 1st instead of leading squads of non-veterans?

>I suppose the Crimson Fists aren't codex because their First Company has 128 dudes.

What does that have anything to do with having non-1st Company veteran squads, unique vehicles, and companies being moved around?


>> No.29675641

Blood Angels codex quite literally says the Ultras and the Codex were a major formative influence on the Blood Angels as a Chapter.

>> No.29675651

Again, what you are describing is codex divergence. Like the majority of chapters, because only like 300 Chapters are 100% codex-compliant, according to Insignum Astartes.

>> No.29675713

Hey Anons, another question. Would regular dreadnoughts with double twin linked heavy bolters benefit from Banner of Devastation? Wouldn't that effectively turn each Dreadnought into a badass 12/24 infantry mower?

>> No.29675765


You can't reroll a reroll.

>> No.29675778


Heavy Bolters aren't Bolters, neither are Storm Bolters or Bolt Pistols.

Also, even if it did effect the Heavy Bolters, it would just give them 8 shots re-rollable

>> No.29675818

How'd you get 8? I'm pretty new so I don't realy understand what 2/4 salvo was.

>> No.29675862


Heavy Bolters are normally Heavy 3, you replace that with Salvo 2/4 which means, 2 shots at half distance when moving, or 4 shots at full distance when standing still, but because vehicles are relentless, they always count as stationary.

Each arm would fire 4 shots instead of the normal 3.

But like I say, it's all moot because the banner only works on bolters (including the bolter part of combi-bolters)

>> No.29675897

Ahhh okay. So its opposite of rapid fire where its 2 at half distance and 1 at full distance. Thanks.

>> No.29675934

Also is it considered too cheese to use the banner of devastation? I mean thats kinda broken isn't it? You'd get 40 shots from 1 group of tac marines?

>> No.29675952


It's impossible to cheese with DA.

>> No.29675966

There's no overarching plot, there is a setting for which our battles and campaigns are set.

It's like trying to argue with a duck.

>> No.29675971

somebody has to have the tech, otherwise there wouldn't be jetbikes on SM and in 40k every team has to have everything

>> No.29675993

>It's like trying to argue with a duck.

You are so mad at being jimmy rustled by ducks that it's unbelievable.

>> No.29676004

IG don't get jetbikes though.

I think what you mean is in 40k HUMANS have to have everything. Because they are pretty much canonically best.

>> No.29676015

>humans not getting their shit pushed in pre-M31 by robots
>humans not getting their shit pushed in during Unification of Terra
>humans not getting their shit pushed in during Great Crusade
>humans not getting their shit pushed in by themselves during Horus Heresy
>humans not getting their shit pushed in during M41

40K canonically best races were Oldcron C'tan, Necrontyr, Chaos, Tyranids, and Orks.

>> No.29676066

>>humans not getting their shit pushed in pre-M31 by robots
They won. Also, they made those robots.
>>humans not getting their shit pushed in during Unification of Terra
>>humans not getting their shit pushed in during Great Crusade
Don't.... think that really counts since humans were doing the shit pushing.
>>humans not getting their shit pushed in by themselves during Horus Heresy
Again, humans versus humans, humans won.
>>humans not getting their shit pushed in during M41
Still the biggest and the strongest.
You're saying the only people who can beat humans are other humans and the creations of humans.
>40K canonically best races were Oldcron C'tan, Necrontyr, Chaos, Tyranids, and Orks.
C'tan are shattered, Necrontyr had to literally sell their souls to space Mephistopheles to be any good, Chaos was literally created by humans according to Realms of Chaos, Tyranids lose in their own codex, and orks are a joke.

Bam, deal w/ it.

>> No.29676139

>Chaos was literally created by humans according to Realms of Chaos
I like the idea but didn't the fall of the eldar predate the first human appearance by thousands of years ? And at that time wasn't Slaanesh the youngest god , the others already existing ?

>> No.29676161

>Don't.... think that really counts since humans were doing the shit pushing.
>>>humans not getting their shit pushed in by themselves during Horus Heresy
>Again, humans versus humans, humans won.


>> No.29676173


Realms of Chaos is a WHFB publication. Chaos existed before humanity, as well as in other galaxies.

I do remember hearing something about Khorne being born due to Genghis Khan or the Crusades or something and Nurgle due to the Black Plague.

>> No.29676183

The fall of the Eldar took place just prior to the end of the age of strife and the onset of the Great Crusade.

>> No.29676186


I thought it happened just before the Great Crusade was kicked off as the birth of Slaanesh cleared a load of warp storms allowing The Emperor to travel out of the solar system.

>> No.29676187

>didn't the fall of the eldar predate the first human appearance by thousands of years
No it's not.
The Fall was in m29-m30.

>> No.29676195

Yeah, and it was the humans who didn't have the backing of daemons.
>didn't the fall of the eldar predate the first human appearance by thousands of years
Nope. The Fall was like M28.
The first three Chaos Gods came into being around the Middle Age to the Renaissance.
>Realms of Chaos is a WHFB publication.
It most certainly is fucking not just a WHFB publication you stupid nigger. Try reading it before you open your cockwarmer.
>Chaos existed before humanity
Not in any sapient state.
>as well as in other galaxies.
Not until humans created the gods.

>> No.29676272


Getting angry won't make you less wrong.

>> No.29676275

Being wrong makes you wrong.

>> No.29676356

>Exorcists use daemonic possession as part of their initiation, have 12 companies (3 of which are Scout companies), use rituals, runes and anti-daemon weapons
>codex chapter
>Iron Hands have organized each company into an independent fighting force with their own scouts, vets, etc.
>codex chapter
>White Scars don't like dreads, field way more bikes than normal and are way into mobility and motorized warfare
>codex chapter
>Crimson fists have a 128 member 1st company
>codex chapter
>Mentors don't operate as one chapter, but spread their forces among other Imperial units to aid and learn, also use plenty of experimental new equipment
>codex chapter
>Ultramarines control 8 systems, command not only their own forces, but a whole second fleet and scores of Guard level auxiliary troops, and have the loyalty of several successor chapters
>codex chapter

>Dark Angels got slightly altered organization on 2 companies and some fancy tech, which I don't think is in any way against the codex, plenty of chapters have relics and shit and if using a lot of plasma is wrong, why are Salamanders with their melta/flamer/hammer fetish a codex chapter?
>codex says they follow the codex astartes

>Blood Angels
>emphasis on assault squads
>don't field any more assault squads than normal
>were among the first to adopt the codex astartes

>> No.29676443

Imp tech has antigrav motors small enough to fit on servoskulls and cherubims

Large enough for landspeeders

Yet somehow jetbikes are too complicated??

>> No.29676453


>Implying servoskulls dont fly through the power of love

>> No.29676467

Getting real tired of your logic, anon.

>> No.29676477

what bothers me is that fire prisms/falcons don't count as fliers.

canonically they've always been depicted as fliers.

>> No.29676538

Humanity contributed to the Chaos gods and they supposedly gained sapience during parts of human history, but they existed as maelstroms of emotions and ideas within the Warp long before and humanity in no way created them.

>> No.29676553

>humanity in no way created them
Realms of Chaos LITERALLY says those events in human history created the Dark Gods. Not vice versa.

>> No.29676580

Time works in a funny way in the warp apparently.

>> No.29676612

Have you actually read Realms of Chaos, because what it says, is that when Khorne came to be, wars swept the land; when Nurgle, plagues and famine, and when Tzeentch, we saw the rise of states and political fuckery.

Those things didn't cause the gods to become sentient, they were the result of the gods themselves becoming sentient and feeding back into the real world. Khorne rose and his anger fed mortal minds, causing wars. Most likely not just on Earth, but across the cosmos.

>> No.29676615


Don't forget,
>Ultramarines have a special unit just for fighting Tyranids

The Novamarines are the biggest Codex-fappers anyway.

>> No.29676628

No, it says the opposite, and you're a liar. The Crusades created Khorne, for instance.

>> No.29676643

Rather than a unit, it's more like a death squad. They don't recruit new members, after all.

>> No.29676667

That's retarded.

>> No.29676673


Realms of Chaos is also over 20 years old

>> No.29676694

Still canon.

>> No.29676697


Its a formal organization in the Chapter isn't it? Surely they'd recruit more members from veterans from further Tyranid conflicts.

>> No.29676705

Nah, the dataslate itself says they don't recruit new people.

>> No.29676719


Fluff changes and older fluff is over ridden, don't hear much about the Illuminati or Sensei, do you?

>> No.29676722


Huh. Fair enough. Thats pretty stupid though.

>> No.29676728

>Fluff changes and older fluff is over ridden
It was never overridden.
>don't hear much about the Illuminati or Sensei, do you?
The Illuminati show up in Atlas Infernal.

>> No.29676782

Realms of Chaos is 24 years old you dumb cunt.

Liber Chaotica replaced it.

>> No.29676820

>Liber Chaotica replaced it.

>> No.29676869

>Khorne was the first of the Great Powers to wake fully, and an era of wars and conflicts raged across the globe. Tzeentch was the next, and nations and politics grew to adulthood with all of their implicit intrigues and double-dealings. Nurgle was the third to awake and plagues swept across continents claiming many souls for the Lord of Decay.

>> No.29676878

Not that section you idjit. Get to the part that expressly mentions the Crusades.

>> No.29676903

I always thought Nurgle was the oldest of the bunch, with death being the oldest fear in the universe and such.

>> No.29676961


>> No.29677096

Where's my blood angels love

>> No.29677135


If memory serves, Nurgle was the first to be created, but Khorne was the first to gain sentience, because Nurgle is a lazy fuck. Then again, the Warp is nonlinear, so in a sense the Ruinous Powers have always existed.

>> No.29677136

five huh

so a grey knight is about equal to a space marine sergeant? a veteran sm sergeant?

>> No.29677175

They're too obsessed with how their judge dredd bikes, make them more manly than eldar hover bikes.

>> No.29677229

Why not have flying lawmasters?

>> No.29677289

Hey /tg/ents,

Another noob question. For stuff like my HQs where it says can take special equipment but doesn't have a cost next to them, does that mean its free? A second example would be if I made my deathwing termies into a command squad, theres a cost for the deathwing company banner at 45, and normal banners at 20, then it just says cantake sacred banners as well but doesn't list any price.

And does anyone have a definite answer for me on what Standard of Devastation effects? I'm seeing most places agree that anything listed under boltgun in the 40k rulebook is affected by it, but then I see a lot of 40k oldfags disagreeing and saying it only affects standard bolters and not even like bolt pistols or twin linked bolters.

Thanks in advance. Trying to build a balanced list off my DV box set. I can post my list too if anyone is interested.

>> No.29677342

Side note, don't the Space Wolves fuck with the inquisition just as much if not more than the Dark Angels? I thought Dark Angels are always just secretive and distance, while haven't the Space Wolves actually like publically defied and fought with the Inquisition?

>> No.29677377

space wolves do it out of principle and hate passed down the generations. From some of the spess wolf novels I've read, they seem to have a minor problem with the Inquisition being prying into their secrets as well.

dark angels are secretive fucks who don't give a fuck about principle and their main problem is that they feel like they're above the Inquisition and it's meddling ways.

>> No.29677490

You're spot on.

If you switch the two chapters.

>does that mean its free?
No, that means you use the price in the relevant wargear section.

>And does anyone have a definite answer for me on what Standard of Devastation effects?
Bolters only. Not Bolt Pistols, not Storm Bolters, not Heavy Bolters.

Aside from bolters, however, it also affect twin linked bolters, hurricane bolters, and the bolter part of a combi-weapon.

>> No.29677642

Dude. Orks are pretty much canonically the winners. They live for war. They enjoy war. They live in a grim, dark future, WHERE THERE IS ONLY WAR. Orks achieved their win condition long ago.

>> No.29677660

So? They're a joke faction. Hardly the master race.

>> No.29677691

but there is no costs in the wargear section? Am I just being blind and looking in the completely wrong place? Like if I wanted to take a chapter relic I see absolutely no price for it anywhere in the Dark Angels codex.

>> No.29677703

Nvm I am fucking blind as fuck. I kept going to the description part not the actual wargear list.

>> No.29677721

The Space Wolves tell the Inquisition to fuck off, and occasionally kill some of them, but they're pretty open about it and their reasons for doing so. The Dark Angels disappear anyone who asks too many questions, sometimes leave battles to chase after their own mysterious objectives, AND have a ton of highly-loyal (to them) successor chapters. So they're more mysterious, arguably more disruptive, and certainly more dangerous overall.

>> No.29677747

They are the comic relief guys, yes. That doesn't mean that they aren't pretty much the only winners.

>> No.29677759

Being happy to sit in shit doesn't mean you're not sitting in shit.
Orks are a joke.

>> No.29677818

Master race reporting in.

>> No.29677946

let's see:
first of all who wants to mess with dark angels messes with the whole unforgiven chapters...
so basically a full legion strong army ( 100.000 and more space marines, of which 10% are terminators).
relics: dark angels and descendants have tons of ships , unique tecnology, weapons and so forth.
the rock: one of the most massive things capable of warp travel in the whole galaxy ( it's a chunk of a planet)
the lion: wich is alive and is intended in some codex is waiting for the emperor to tell him to show himself again.

no single imperial organization is able to take them down alone, it would require a joined effort of imperial army, imperial navy, and at least a hundred chapters

>> No.29677992

if you red the HH book about dark angels you'd know this is not the case. the lion was loyal, his men were loyal, it was luther that betrayed both the emperor and the lion under the influence of chaos.

>> No.29678027

Bah I like to think he was being an opportunistic dick and waiting to see who won!

>> No.29679350

>>Iron Hands have organized each company into an independent fighting force with their own scouts, vets, etc.

Nope, read Clan Raukaan

>> No.29679553

Butthurt HFY wanker detected.

>> No.29679602

When was the last time orks won a battle?

>> No.29679684

>"Orkses is never defeated in battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fighting so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!"
>Commonly held Ork view of warfare
you don't get orks, don't you?

>> No.29679743

"I'm bleeding. Making me the victor."

>> No.29679805

really its just that fucking Chaplain and some of the inner circle. Asmodai is so NOFUN KILLHERETICS it's obnoxious and I'm a Dark Angels fan.

>> No.29679835

>"I'm bleeding. Making me the victor."
you don't get the orks
I'll ask you then what does make a human being victorious?

>> No.29679885

You don't get what I'm saying, huh.
"I must apologize for Wimp Lo. He is an idiot. We have purposely trained him wrong, as a joke."
The orks being fucking morons doesn't make them badass, it just means they don't mind the fact that they are a joke.

>> No.29679957

What's that? Can't hear you over all the hate GW has for Iron Hands.

>> No.29679982

>orkz is morons

And I suppose you think being born with instinctive knowledge of how to build and maintain ranged weapons, ferment fungus into booze, fight anything from an IG to a hive tyrant in CQC, and build towering mechanical monstrosities is moronic too?

Prey tell, what faction do you play? I'm guessing eldar from your attitude

>> No.29680021

>Iron Hands

Hence why they were given the best CT and a supplement.

>> No.29680076

They suck at everything. Again, when was the last time they actually won a battle? Half the Tyranid codex is devoted to their capacity to lose!

>> No.29680095

and I'm trying to tell you that the orks are the most successful life form created by the old ones
their "winning" is finalised to the perpetuation of the race
it doesn't matter if they look stupid doing it or if the other races don't get it
what they do is the most rapid and successful way of preserving and expanding their race
and this mean is war
1)they fight because fighting makes them produce spores, so offsprings, so other orks, that means that when an ork fights he wins because he's done what he was meant to
2)they fight because fighting makes the individuals stronger this leads to the creation of powerful warlords that will help organizing bigger wars to better do point 1
3)they fight because fighting is their primary way of evolving and adapting because as point 2 explains, bigger fights create better individuals, promoting the one genetically led to become better in the sector the race needs at the moment

and a galaxy where there's only war means that the orks are winning because they got everything they need to perpetuate their race

>> No.29680124

>The orks being fucking morons doesn't make them badass, it just means they don't mind the fact that they are a joke.
if it looks stupid but works it ain't stupid

>> No.29680127

And don't give them a special character and shit all over their fluff. You should also know that having good rules in a GW game is just the luck of the draw.

>> No.29680143

It doesn't work. All it succeeds in doing is creating feral orks the PDF can practice their shooting on.

>> No.29680274

>All Loyal Legions kept their colors, all Traitors changed theirs. Think about it.

Lion is confirmed as a loyalist in the HH books, but he is included among the traitor primarchs when Argel Tal has his vision in First Heretic, as he's apparently among those chosen by the chaos gods - he was supposed to fall to chaos like the others and had even more reason than most (having grown up on a chaos-tainted death world). The fact that he actually CHOSE to side with the emperor in spite all this (and is explicitly stated to not give a shit what anyone else thinks about where his loyalties lie) is kind of a big thing.

"Fallen Angels are the REAL loyalists" is a fan theory that was never supposed to be taken seriously and the fact that GW feel the need to actively shoot it down is pretty sad.

>> No.29680328

>It doesn't work
lets go say that to the high lords of terra
they sure will agree with you
except they don't
>"The Orks plague the galaxy from the end to end with their ceaseless warring and strife. They are a race rooted so deeply in war that peace is utterly incomprehensible to them. They cannot be bargained with or bought save with weapons that they will inevitable turn against those who tried to bribe them. I pray with all my faith that some great catastrophe will annihilate them but I fear that ultimately it is they, not we, who shall rule the galaxy."
>-Xanthius, High Lord of Terra

>> No.29680366

>people citing Ravenwing and Deathwing as proof that DA is Traitor
>people forgetting that Ravenwing and Deathwing were created for the sole purpose of hunting Traitors
>people forgetting that DA is canonically Loyal and FA is canonically Traitor, as explicitly stated in DW core rulebook
>people thinking this is somehow less interesting than a group of Traitors who could easily infiltrate any given Imperial campaign given that only DA Inner Circle and two Companies know about the FA

Good job

>> No.29680371


>no single imperial organization

Good thing the Inquisition has the ability to draft the guard and the navy as they see fit and have tons of alliances with various Space Marine Chapters and what not.

Not to mention if the Inquisition does have evidence that's good enough to spook the DA into getting everyone together as a united fleet, they'd likely be able to use that evidence to get the assistance of pretty much any loyal SM chapter. Hell even chapters such as the BT and SW that hate the Inquisition would probably still join in when given good evidence of all the team killing the DA do.

TLDR: Fanwank all you want if the entirety of the Inquisition with all their resources and allies decides to go after the DA, they are FUCKED.

>> No.29680387


That also know however that above all the Space Wolves are loyal to the concept of the Emperor & Imperium whereas the Inquisition doesn't know what the Dark Angel's motivations are from a hole in the ground.

>> No.29680488

>Probably, they're still effectively legion strength

They have about half a dozen successor chapters (before the High Lords started catching on to what they were doing and stopped using their geneseed to make new foundings) who are Dark Angels in everything but name. That still only puts them at 7000 marines, not legion strength, as each chapter still adheres to the limits of the codex astartes (aside from sticking all their bikers in the second company and having more terminator suits than usual).

That's not much bigger than the Black Templars (5000-6000, according to Lexicanum)

>> No.29680533

> first game against a tau player
> " dark angels can't use grav weapons"
> offer to just consider it as a plasma gun
> he says no

That's the point where you should have told him to eat shit and stop being such a WYSIWYG faggot.

Tau players are a fucking cancer anyway.

>> No.29680567

>he is included among the traitor primarchs when Argel Tal has his vision in First Heretic
So's Dorn.

>> No.29680598

>Meanwhile, during Azrael’s absence, Asmodai was restricted to his chambers and the chapel. On his return, the Supreme Grand Master asked if Asmodai had any regrets over what had happened, to which the Chaplain replied that he regretted not killing the Inquisitor when he had the opportunity.

As hilarious as I find "Asmodai got grounded and was a sulky little bitch when Azrael asked him to apologise for being a twat", the new Asmodai fluff is fucking ridiculous. He was way better when he was just this sinister torturer with an even more single-minded hatred of the fallen than a regular dark angel, rather than a NO FUN ALLOWED crochety old fanatic who makes whole companies take year-long vows of silence for laughing in church.

>> No.29680620

>laughing in church
Not even. Just for laughing.

>> No.29680675

>Give me evidence they don't actually possess those things.

The guy you were responding to already pointed out a bunch of non-DA C:SM shit like stormravens and sternguard that predates the 6th edition DA book. What more evidence could you fucking need?

>> No.29680702

>it's not unlikely that other first founding chapters would get involved on principle

This. The Dark Angels are twats, but space marines stick together. Even the Space Wolves would have their back if the Inquisition declared war on the unforgiven.

>> No.29680710

Real evidence.

>> No.29680729

The Space Wolves doesn't like the Inquisition to begin with. I bet even the Ultrasmurfs, goody-two-shoes that they are, would also defend them.

>> No.29680787

>Putting all your veterans in terminator
>DA are nothing like the codex you're retarded

How does having a fuckton of terminator suits to stick their veterans in make them non-codex?

>> No.29680839

Page 91 of the DA codex has the pricing for options that are available to multiple units, such as sacred standards.

"Q: The Standard of Devastation states that ‘all friendly Codex:
Dark Angels units within 6” of the standard treat their boltguns as
Salvo 2/4 weapons’. Which boltguns does this apply to? (p66)
A: This applies to the standard boltgun (24”range, S4, AP5, Rapid Fire), twin-linked boltguns on bikes, the bolter component of combi-weapons, and hurricane bolters."
- Copy/Pasted directly from the Dark Angels FAQ v1.1a April update

I'm glad to see another DA player, despite them being starter box you're the first I've heard from other than myself.

>> No.29680874

>Also is it considered too cheese to use the banner of devastation? I mean thats kinda broken isn't it? You'd get 40 shots from 1 group of tac marines?

You have to bunch those guys up and not let them move.

It's only really cheesy if you give it to a Ravenwing command squad accompanied by regular Ravenwing bikers (all equipped with twin-linked relentless bolters) and maybe a dark talon or something (two relentless hurricane bolters equates to twenty-four re-rollable bolter shots per talon). That's a hell of a lot of incredibly mobile dakka.

>> No.29680906

>I do remember hearing something about Khorne being born due to Genghis Khan or the Crusades or something and Nurgle due to the Black Plague.

I don't know about that, bit isn't Doombreed the khorne daemon prince implied somewhere to have originally been Genghis Khan?

>> No.29680916

How strange, that's my favorite part of the Dark Angels. Especially that bit where the DA save some mining colony from the Eldar, and the colonists see the DA as less human than the xenos.

>> No.29680995

>Pretty girls with pointy ears vs 9 foot tall armored killing machines with tiny heads

>> No.29680998

We really need somebody to draw Asmodai doing the pose from the 'no fun allowed robot' image.

>> No.29681034

Does it bother anyone else when people draw eldar with big tits?

>> No.29681081

See I like that, as its sorta true but that said. He's still a massive cunt. I'm not saying they shouldn't be dour but there's a certain point where its too much.

>> No.29681087

Macha and Taldeer had some stonking tits.

>> No.29681114


If you read book ten you know that wasn't the case. Luther had a moment of weakness and frustration where he almost let The Lion get blown up by chaos cultists. Can't blame the man since everything that he ever did was overshadowed by the kid he spared. The Lion banished him to Caliban for that, to oversee the training of new recruits. In 50 years time, Luther revolutionized the training methods to the point where it couldn't evolve any more.

Rebellion was rampant on the planet at the same time. The deep seated corruption on caliban itself was pouring out and agitating the populace. They undertook a quest of sorts to rid Caliban of this corruption and failed, but learned that this corruption was sentient. Luther tried to negotiate with it, to use it for his own ends and got consumed by it. That is how he became a chaos aligned being capable of fighting a primearch.

>> No.29681132

>Realms of Chaos is a WHFB publication
>contains pretty much everything we knew of the Emperor for several editions
>fleshed out the Horus Heresy
>contains rules for traitors, cults and CSM in 40k
>WHFB publication

Like, are you even trying?

>> No.29681149

>reading the HH books

no they're terrible

>> No.29681212


>> No.29681412

So, for plasma spam dark angels, should I go full on plasma gun+cannon+combi-plasma, or MSU combi-plas+gun/cannon? MSU gets me more plasma per-model, but is it tactically sound?

>> No.29681548

Guardians of the Covenant
>best chapter

>> No.29681577


>> No.29681608

Don't forget all the DA successor chapters that are only separate forces on paper

>> No.29681949

Not all legions are docile DA copies. Several are not actively hunting the fallen or located in such a remote part of the Galaxy that there isn't much contact with the DA themselves

>> No.29681989

>Several are not actively hunting the fallen
Name one. Even those Angels of Absolution faggits hunt the Fallen.

>> No.29682049

Guardians of the Covenant for example, are in such a remote corner of the Galaxy, they only fight friggin Xenos. And the Angels of Absolution, though whiny fags, are absolved of all their sins and don't hint the fallen.

>> No.29682079

>the Angels of Absolution, though whiny fags, are absolved of all their sins and don't hint the fallen.
>Their structure and belief are still very similar to those of their progenitor chapter, to the point that the two chapters have often joined forces and pooled resources in the hunt of The Fallen. The only noticeable difference in their doctrines is that the Angels of Absolution consider themselves absolved (nomen est omen) of their own sins during the Fall of Caliban, and place a greater amount of emphasis on their holy duty of just hunting the Fallen as such and not to redeem themselves.[5]

>> No.29682126

>> No.29682157

Angels of Absolution still hunt the fallen, bro.

>> No.29682336

>Storm Eagle (?) not covered in illuminated religious texts

>> No.29682544

>Or just generally not made out of stone to look like a medieval church.

>> No.29682617

It looks more like sheet metal

>> No.29682735

yes because some space wolf legions owe them for the whole lending of a fighting force while battling the 1000 sons on a demon planet thing. and the wolves love traveling in packs. while the 2 legions don't like each other. the space wolves never leave a debt unpaid

>> No.29682807

>there's 100 DA successors

>> No.29682847

There's probably at least a couple dozen by now. That's a small legion.

>> No.29682850

no he is right. while do you think grey knight point values and fliuff make them seem superior in everyway. they could fuck up your average blueberry easily. but lets face it smurfs ain't all that tough.

>> No.29682908

makes sense to me

>> No.29682913

what does adamantium will do?

>> No.29682988

Also, multi-melta barrels not drilled.

>> No.29683109

That would be around half of a legion even going by old fluff, certainly not the 100000 marines that guy mentioned

>> No.29683191

It's still a WIP. Not done yet.

>> No.29683327


Aren't they skimmers who rely on nearby surface to push on?

>> No.29683414


Right here. I play Dark Angels but I'm looking into getting a blood angel complement just so I can have an army to name Angels of Death or something like that. It would basically be bikes rushing forward to get my termies in, snipers in the back to pick off high value targets and blood angel jump infantry with a heavy support in the back.

I haven't really looked into BA so I can't say how this would work pointwise if at all, but pre-heresy emps children, BA and DA are my favorites.

>> No.29683518


>joke faction

Say that to my power klaw you git, see what happens. Orks enjoy war and they do goofy things but they also build empires and lead constant incursions into enemy territory. They are hard to kill and can live in almost any environment.

>the only race actively inventing new stuff all the time
>a joke

U aint laffing so 'ard when wese takin ur bitz

>> No.29683537

>>the only race actively inventing new stuff all the time
Tau and Necrons.

>> No.29683558

No, as far as they're concerned their mastery of technology is complete.

>> No.29683560

>the only race actively inventing new stuff all the time
Fuckin' Dark Eldar do that. So speshul.

>> No.29683572

At least GW seems to think they're capable of high altitude flight (Chapter Approved 2004).

>> No.29683580


>can use any technology
>constantly invent technology
>constantly expand territory to find more gubbinz
>largest, most dangerous faction in 40k

>actively go out of their way to kill creative people
>constantly either losing planets or setting them on fire
>fighting a losing battle at every turn

Yeah clearly humans are superior because you say so

>> No.29683629

>No, as far as they're concerned their mastery of technology is complete.
Absolutely untrue according to FFG and Forge World. Hell, not one but both of the main cryptek SCs are entirely about the fact that they are attempting to achieve something new in their mastery of science.

>> No.29683636


Pfff, what does he know. It's just one guy saying that.

>> No.29683742

The Forgeworld one invented the ''Smoking Mirror'' and wants to destroy time.

Szeras and Orikan are working toward Star-powered Godhood.

The FFG one invented a device to detect Warp activity.

And then are the Crypteks trying to reverse the Biotransference.

The quest for science for ends.

>> No.29683786

So? That's still invention.

>> No.29683807


Yeah, clearly /tg/ hates tits. You can observe this by looking at other threads.

>> No.29683810

Just giving your previous post examples to back your point.

>> No.29683831


Then don't join in on lore discussion

>> No.29683833

Oh. Well then. I guess I misread that.


>> No.29683856

never ends*

>> No.29683886

> angels of death

I see someone else who gets ideas based off of the white dwarf. Glorious isn't it?

>> No.29683905


I own one white dwarf and it's last months. I have never seen that article.

>> No.29683939

>I see someone else who gets ideas based off of the white dwarf
...Please be trolling.

>> No.29684070


I have to add to that, I was quite disappointed with the content of the white dwarf. It was essentially one big "hey you should buy this" magazine. If it was free, I'd be cool with that but I guess I just expected more actual content, lore/short stories, artwork and maybe hints for new models. It was so... business-like. Like a time-share meeting.

>> No.29684198

Isn't it about to change, format and everything?

>> No.29684219

DA are definitely violating the Code with their current strength but really isn't that pretty much the case with all of the original loyalist chapters and even some of the more notable successor chapters.

There is almost certainly more than a 1000 Space Wolves not even counting the 13th company. DA are cheating, BA are probably cheating, Iron Fists are probably cheating.

Ultrasmurfs are also probably cheating in terms of pure strength because there is no way they could defend ultramar with just 1000 + PDF.

I pretty much imagine every single first founding chapter is probably hiding a fuck ton of marines in stasis chambers and they pull them out when they really have to.

>> No.29684226

No one wants it to progress. It's WH40K not WHInfinityAndBeyond

>> No.29684270

Almost everyone is cheating since the 1000 marines rule is only about companies, not counting vehicle crews, specialists and stuff

>> No.29684329

So why is it that Ordo Hereticus doesn't have a special Astarte chapter to use.

I mean stormtroopers and sisters are fine but sometimes you want Marines.

Minotaurs seem to be a good possibility given they pretty much only deploy as a full chapter

>> No.29684330

Iron Fists? Also, I think the Salamanders have been mentioned as being usually somewhat under 1000... closer to 700 ,IIRC.

>> No.29684362


Salamanders have had 10,000 years to rebuild their genestock and have like zero successor chapters same with the raven guard. Both are cheating bastards.

>> No.29684379

>jetpack and robes

That's pretty retarded, even by 40k standards.

>> No.29684406

Pretty much this. The whole reason I innitially bought a subscription was because I read some of the older ones in my local library at the time. Those things had detailed painting tips up the wazoo. I also really liked how they used to write stories for their battle reports ( although the online one I remember is the smurfs/Eldar vs trazns necrons ) and I absolutely loved it. It even compelled me to actually start writing stories about the games I play against others, even though I'm a shit writer. Current white dwarf is pretty much advertisements.

To answer your question, yes. It's going to be a weekly thing now. And absolutely no clarification about the old yearly subscription thing. I'm probably going to be told those are worthless now.

>> No.29684460

Red Hunters.

>> No.29684463

>angels of death
>I see someone else who gets ideas based off of the white dwarf. Glorious isn't it?

You should probably lose the trip.

>> No.29684468

The Raven Guard have plenty of successors.

The Raptors, Space Sharks, Death Eagles, and Storm Hawks are all Raven Guard successors. There are a few less famous examples.

AFAIK, the Salamanders are only rumored to have successors, though.

>> No.29684478


Is that the Forgeworld pet chapter that nobody actually plays because they are racist even for marines?

>> No.29684496


No, that's the Red Scorpions.

>> No.29684542

Uh. No?
The Red Hunters are the Inquisition's pet chapter, because everyone needs a pet chapter, even the AdMech with the Steel Confessors.

Chapter Tactics are they're Battle Brothers with Sisters and Grey Knights if you take an Inquisitor.

>> No.29684545

>DA are definitely violating the Code with their current strength but really isn't that pretty much the case with all of the original loyalist chapters and even some of the more notable successor chapters.

It's never implied anywhere that the DA or their successor chapters break the 1000 marine rule. Their legion-building is a lot more subtle than that.

>> No.29684597

I doubt that the child chapters of the DA would be of any help if the Inquisition attacked The Rock. I imagine that if the Inq. would attack the DA for any reason it would be a blitz attack on The Rock or draw the DA into Inq. friendly territory then attack. Regardless of their method it wouldn't be a prolonged war where any DA allies could intervene.

>> No.29684622


I thought Iron Warriors were basically the AdMech allied chapter.

Of course Mentors would also be a good candidate for being AdMech or Inquisition allies because they have like a retarded level of access to advanced technology

>> No.29684641

>Iron Warriors

>> No.29684674


Sorry Iron Hands not Iron Warriors although Iron Warriors are almost certainly allied with the dark mechanicus which is barely different that the regular mechanicus

>> No.29684701


>> No.29684714

>dat image

I don't think even the Inquisition would be dumb enough to wage war against Dwayne Johnson.

>> No.29684736

The Steel Confessors were secretly made by the Adeptus Mechanicus in the 19th founding from Iron Hands gene-seed because "well everyone else gets space marines", essentially. They got in lots of trouble for it.

>> No.29684741

Salamanders are at 700 because of the way they recruit, one company for every city

>> No.29684772

>Steel Confessors
>Battle for Kalevala

>> No.29684861

>everyone else gets space marines

The fuck? Inquisition at least has need for highly skilled and well equipped troops they can call on any day. Where the fuck does Admech need Marines for, punching numbers?

>> No.29684864


Well their companies are larger than normal but unless they field a fuck ton of dreads (quite possible given they are assault as fuck) their numbers are likely less than 900 unless they are lying.

Chances are they are lying

>> No.29684869

Sons of Medusa are pretty high in the totally-not-admech scale IIRC

>> No.29684904

Scratch that it was the Aurora Chapter

>> No.29684930

Rapid strike force to protect important Mechanicus assets, as I recall. The High Lords forced them to become a de jure independent chapter because fuck you AdMech, but they are de facto still the Mechanicus' bitches.

>> No.29684937


Well sometimes you need more flexible than deploying a Titan Legion and Skitarri

Might as well deploy totally not Ad mech techmarines out the ass

>> No.29684959

And then there's these guys

>> No.29684990



>original idea guys do not steal

>> No.29685029

Uh, their name is down there dude

Apparently there's at least one successor with a different spiritual liege

>> No.29685085


Praetors are a 2nd founding Ultramarines chapter (like 90% of the second founding).

Pretty sure they are completely generic Ultrasmurf codex nazis just like Novamarines

>> No.29685107

Forgetting the Sons of Orar, who revere Orar as their "spiritual patriarch"?
Steel Confessors are so "NOT ADMECH HONEST" that at all times all their clan-companies are followed around by no less than THREE Magi. Also they all worship the Omnissiah alongside the Emperor and Ferrus Manus. Yeah, it's a holy trinity thing.

>> No.29685182

Wardex said that they were rumored to be joined to the Admech by more than loyalty to the Emperor or stuff like that. Pretty much every other chapter looks at them in weird ways

>> No.29685218

Really, the only thing keeping Blood Angels from being in the main Codex at this stage is that their rules at present are too complex to integrate via something as simple as two special rules like Imperial Fists and so on. Dark Angels have no excuse, their shit is just:

- Replace Terminator Tac and Ass squads with slightly more expensive stubborn terminators with both options, and all models with Terminator armour are Stubborn and have PE: Chaos

- Bikes, Jetbikes and Fast Skimmers all have mini-Scouts and Storm Talons and Ravens are replaced by other shit

- Special Characters

>> No.29685273


DA used to be cool and somewhat flavorful especially Ravenwing armies.

Of course White Scar mongol biker armies used to be cool as well

>> No.29685277

Apart from different force org chart, blood angels were just a roll before battle to see who joined the death company, and a roll every turn to see who charged like a retard IIRC

>> No.29685336


Too bad death company is completely shit in the Assault must suck ass this edition.

Not that jetpack assault marines are any better

>> No.29685348

Admech has their own ships, their own troops, their fancy tech and all their SCIENCE! with techy super soldiers and vat grown monsters. They got mobility, numbers and tech. What possibly does a Marine chapter offer over that? It's like owning a gun, but calling over your mate to come over with his gun when someone breaks into your house.

Also, this is the Admech, right? As in the whole Admech? So they got a single chapter that's suppose to operate on a galaxy wide basis? Man, I'm all for Marines but sometimes GW has to know when to stop jerking it. They don't have to be the center of attention and answer to all problems all the God damn time.

>> No.29685390

But they don't, you only hear about the times they do because those instances are exceptions and have meaning. You read about Armageddon, not Bumfuck Secondus

>> No.29685391

Really nice, don't let them get you.
But if you pull that religious scripture thing, you'd be the man.
Or even man-ier then yo are.

>> No.29685400


Well for some reason the Imperium seems to frown upon the Mechanicus deploying large scale mechanicus armies to non forge world without IG oversight.

Could be something to do with a Titan Legio basically being unstoppable.

Having a servant chapter that is totally NOT AD MECH SRSLY as plausible deniability is a smart move.

>> No.29685632

>too complex


All you really need to do is give them Furious Charge and something like Red Paint Job for their tanks. Bam, majority done. Baal predator is just a Crusader Squad style (Blood Angels only) deal.

Death Company? Abomination Squad. Assault Squads? Captain/Chapter Master with jump pack makes them Troops (and they have more options stock, those meltas and shit will go nicely with Salamanders and others). Sanguinius Guard? Vanguard Veterans/Jump Pack Honor Guard.

>- Replace Terminator Tac and Ass squads with slightly more expensive stubborn terminators with both options, and all models with Terminator armour are Stubborn and have PE: Chaos

Or just give them Stubborn and PE via Chapter Traits and fuck the mixed weapons. Or make them available for all, I don't remember Index Astartes saying "thou shalt not mix ranged and close combat in the same squad".

>Storm Talons and Ravens are replaced by other shit

Why can't they use them?

>> No.29685647

So, I'm thinking of making a successor chapter with Palantine blades acting as Sergeants and mixing the phoenix termies in as the knights. That said, Emperors children/Dark angels what do?

And yes, I understand that it will be possibly the single gayest chapter in the imperium.

>> No.29685809

I'm talking purely within the framework of the current codex. I personally allow Space Marine players with Captains/Masters with Jump Packs to use Assault squads as Troops, and I think Abomination Squads are as or more welcome than Legion of the Damned in the main codex.

Right after I wrote my post, I wrote this up for Dark Angels and Blood Angels. It basically works fine.

Dark Angels:

- All units can choose to ignore half of all Leadership penalties they incur for taking Morale checks, rounding up.

- Models in Terminator Armour and Dreadnoughts have the Fearless and Preferred Enemy (Chaos) rules and models on bikes of all sorts and fast skimmer/fly vehicles have the Outflank rule and may Scout up to 12"/12" further than usual if they were already Scouts

- Lose Terminator Squads, Terminator Assault Squads, Skytalon Escort Craft, Stormraven Gunships, Scout Bikers

- Gain Deathwing Terminator Squads, Deathwing Knight Courts, Nephilim Jet Fighters, Land Speeder Shrouds, Ravenwing Knight Cordons

Blood Angels:

- All units have the Furious Charge and Red Thirst rules.

- All Jump Infantry have the Descent of Angels rule.

- Lose Command Squads, Honour Guard, Chaplains, Ironclad Dreadnoughts, Assault Squads, Centurion Assault Squads and Centurion Devastators

- Gain Assault Command Squads, Sanguinary Guard, Sanguinary Priests, Furioso Dreadnoughts, Death Company, Death Company Dreadnoughts and Reclusium Coteries

Red Thirst: Prior to deployment, all units in the army must take a Leadership test, Independent Characters may reroll the result. For every point the test is failed, a single random model from unit is taken into the Death Company. All the Death Company in the army must be divided into 1-6 units no bigger than 30. Models with Jump Packs, Bikes, Terminator Armour and without any of the above must be kept as seperate as possible; after this, each unit must be kept at 3 or more models strong if possible.

>> No.29685838

Death Company: Fearless, Feel No Pain, Rage, Relentless. Lose the ATSKNF and Independent Character rules if possessed. Must pass a Leadership test at -2 at the start of each turn or move as fast as possible towards nearest visible enemy unit, running if out of charge range and charging if in charge range. Only Chaplains may join Death Company units.

>> No.29686086

>You read about Armageddon

Can't say "Marine" is the first thing that pops into my head when I hear "Armageddon."

Why large scale? They got fleets flying all over the place looking for stuff. If it's an Imperial world, why do they need to deploy anything? They're the Adeptus Mechanicus, they got the political pull. Just get the Imperium to sort that shit for you. If it's an internal matter, why would the Imperium care? If it's a matter outside of the Imperium, again, why should they care?

>Titan Legio basically being unstoppable

Unless properly supported. Titans carry a log of guns, but they're not capable of everything. In Storm of Iron a terminator with a combi-melta takes on a Warhound, in Titanicus, as I remember, a Vanquisher shot punches through a Reaver titan's armour, and Pask's Russ company took out 4 traitor Titans.

>> No.29686172

The Rock has a fully working Dark Age factory that makes everything they need

>> No.29686189

that...wow that's a pretty gay chapter.

>> No.29686216

>people not realising that the dark angels are basically a running gay joke (i.e. lionel Johnson).
>dark angels are closet heritics who are so badly in denial that they go around beating up trators just to prove how totally loyal they are.
>"Oh guys im so loyal, like im super dooper loyal guys. Hey look its a heretic lets drop everything and beat him up. Im so loyal, i hate heritics so much"

I could go on.

>> No.29686224

Ah. So, all in all it's that Marine thing where they go "HA HA SUCK IT PLEBS ONLY SUCCESSORS GET OUR COOL TOYS". Like the Blood Angels and their everything, and the Raven Guard and their completely silent heat-masked Power Armor.

>> No.29686259

>people not realising that the dark angels are basically a running gay joke (i.e. lionel Johnson).
They aren't. They're likely named after the band Dark Angel. Which was popular around the time they came out.
Let me guess, you're going to spout that shit about "The Rock" being the name of a gay bar, which is one of those things no one seems to be able to prove but everyone TOTALLY knows to be gospel.

>> No.29686392


I just proved it.

>> No.29686410


How likely?

>Lion El'Johnson - DA primarch
>Lionel Johnson - Victorian poet
>Dark Angels - Space Marine chapter
>The Dark Angel - Johnson's most known poem


>Dark Angel - a Californian metal band

>> No.29686464

>Downtown Phoenix
Anon pls
What's more likely, a poetry reference or a reference to a metal band that was popular around that time?

Be honest here. GW is not that subtle.

>> No.29686487

You didn't specify. You said 'the rock' as the name of a gay bar, i found a gay bar called 'the rock'

>> No.29686511

People keep saying it was the name of a gay bar in Nottingham around that time. No one's ever given proof.

>> No.29686647

The barbwire wank's, hardly an invention just a variation on the broken glass wank, which in turn is derivative of your mom sandpapery cooch.

>> No.29686669

The latest rules for the Contemptor Mortis are in the latest IA: Apocalypse from FW.
All that I remember is that it has -1 to BS.

>> No.29686675

>British reference
>American reference

40k is rife with British pop-culture references. Doctor Who, 2000AD, Marines used to ride Vincent Black Shadows, the list goes on. Where do you get that the band was popular in the UK? Hell, you might just as well claim it was because of the 1987 UK serial "The Dark Angel" starring Peter O'Toole.

Still doesn't explain the similarities between the poet's and the primarch's names. Not to forget that dropping in a gay joke would surely fit into GW's attitude, with all the SS orks, dick-horned beastmen and goblins with their butts hanging out.

>> No.29686687

While no-one (to my knowledge) has ever verified that the Rock was a local gay bar, you have to be incredibly retarded to argue that "dark angels" isn't a reference to the Lionel Johnson poem.

>> No.29686718

>>British reference
>>American reference

You know how many American metal bands were popular in England?

>Still doesn't explain the similarities between the poet's and the primarch's names

The poem is about a dark secret, which probably is what brought about the fluff which came out LATER.

I don't think it is, no. Not originally. Was Lynn Elgonsen even a thing back when they came out?

>> No.29686725

Space-asbestos 4teh win

>> No.29686876

>Lyyn Elgonsen

I keep forgetting that Lion El'Jonson used to have an even stupider name.

>> No.29687069

>You know how many American metal bands were popular in England?

Can you prove Dark Angel was among them?

>The poem is about a dark secret

Yeah, his homosexuality, which in Victorian England was a crime.

>rogue trader rulebook
>page 138
>"The celebration of the feast of Malediction by the Dark Angels Chapter of Space Marines. This great annual event takes place in the Seclusiam of the Dark Angels' space fortress, which orbits the giant planet Delahon. The feast celebrates the founding of the Chapter by Lyyn Elgonsen at the beginning of the Imperial Crusades ten thousand years ago."

>White Dwarf #96, 1987
>page 53
>history of the Ravenwing
>"According to legend, the Chapter was founded by Lynol Jacobsen or Jonsen"

>> No.29687103

Yeah, the shit about the Fallen. Which I'm pretty sure came out in Angels of Death.

>> No.29687134

But they were called Dark Angels and their founder/commander was named after Lionel Johnson from the get-go.

>> No.29687201

Shit, he was called that before? I nearly came up with that myself, as part of a project to remove all the stupid names from among the Primarchs. I went for Lynus Elgenson. Also, while Lynn is a shit name for a man, I would call anything more subtle than Lion space el apostrophe Johnson an improvement.t

>> No.29687213

And the Emperor is based on both God-Emperor of Dune and The Jewel in the Skull. Still think Dark Angel was the initial idea.

>> No.29689966

Grey Knights only exist to fight daemons. They aren't the Inquisitions bitch boys who will go to war with another Astartes Chapter just for run of the mill "heresy".

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