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[ERROR] No.29544185 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Is there a 'good' justification for using a sword in a high tech setting? Like pic related, robots, cyborgs things like that. What could you possibly do with a sword that the same technology put into guns couldn't?

>> No.29544242

There isn't, except for the fact that it's cool and fun.


Which is much more important than being "realistic".

>> No.29544297

depends what you mean by "good"

the way this works in most sci-fi is either that guns are too dangerous for fighting on spacecraft, or that force-fields have some property that makes them effective against guns but not shields (usually because they stop fast-moving objects but not slower ones). in dune, the force-fields cause a nuclear explosion when hit by a laser so people tend to avoid that.

>> No.29544329

Not much, unless you go down the Dune route of having things that react very badly to being shot at but are harmable by slower projectiles.

Knives and other concealable weapons are a bit different though. Being relatively quiet is an advantage.

>> No.29544334

>>29544185

Some settings (Frank Herbert's Dune) have it so that energy shields can only be defeated by blades (because they're slower than bullets).

>> No.29544349

>>29544185
How does bullet-proof armour handle swords anyway?


And it's stylish
So you have a sword and intimidate people
But you carry a shotgun for actual fighting

>> No.29544404

A friend of mine and I rolled up two "jaded ronin"-type characters for Eclipse Phase who eschewed the use of cortical stacks and used swords in favor of guns out of an arrogant desire to prove that humans can still be fucking hardcore.

Of course, it didn't hurt that they had all kinds of reflex and strength supplements going on. We were pulling off some proper Rules of Nature shit.

>> No.29544413

>>29544349
Knives tend to cut through modern kevlar pretty easily with enough force, but kevlar isn't that effective against bullets anyway. You get shot you're going down in pain, bullet going through your body or not.

>> No.29544421

Swords' effectiveness is enhanced by bionics, and doesn't need ammunition.

>> No.29544445

>>29544185
The main thing stopping melee weapons from being go to currently is lack of easily mass produced armor that can reliably stop small arms fire without suffering from ablation.

>> No.29544490

>>29544349
Nobody uses the term "bullet proof" outside of fiction anymore. The term is "Bullet resistant", because killing technology just keeps on advancing and nothing stops a bullet for long.

Even then, most damage-resistant gear is resistant only to the thing it was designed to resist. A bullet vest will typically not do much against a knife, just as a stab vest won't do much against a bullet.

>> No.29544500

While this may not be high tech enough, in Deadlands HoE there seimply are not enough bullets to go around. It's good to have the option to fight with something that can stab black hats

>> No.29544512

>>29544185
Deflect bullets.

>> No.29544557

>>29544421
Wouldn't the more force put behind a melee weapon, the stronger it would have to be to resist the force? After a certain point putting more strength behind a melee weapon would just break it...

>> No.29544574

Just make it a blade like Sam's, able to cut through armor extremely easily.

>> No.29544605

>>29544185
Nigh invulnerability to bullets and/or extremely high speed movement combined with powerful close combat weapons whose technology is impractical to turn into a ranged weapon (mostly what comes to mind is short ranged energy projectors).
Obvious example of all three is a Assault Marine armed with a power sword.

>> No.29544612

The sword channels the psychic force of the character's mind, which cannot be sent through a distance like with bullets. The psychic enhancement is the only thing that can cut through the energy fields everybody has worn ever since they were invented. The creation of the Light Energy Field has made all non-melee weapons obsolete. Lasers fail, bullets are stopped, even artillery and orbital bombardment does jack shit. Technology marches on, and now only swords can be used to kill people.

There, OP, enjoy your gunless sci-fi.

>> No.29544663

>>29544185
Not really. Basically every reason presented is an asspull of some degree.

'Rule of Cool' seems like less of a cop-out, honestly, because it doesn't try to pretend to be something that it isn't.

>> No.29544992

>>29544185
>better body armor is developed, making firearms ineffective against an armored opponent
>some other tech is developed that makes blades a lot better at penetrating armor, but can't be easily applied to small arms for whatever reason
Done.

>> No.29545023

>>29544404

Did someone say RULES OF NATURE? Because I'm pretty sure I heard RULES OF NATURE.

>> No.29545353

Made a setting that does this, which is what I'm assuming you're trying to do as well? Here are the justifications.

1. Armor has advanced to the point that ridiculous armor penetration is a requirement for all ranged weapons. This has the unfortunate side effect of horrible collateral damage in firefights which is allowable on a ship and in most populated areas. Melee weapons don't have this problem.

2. The best guns are more controlled than the best "swords", partially for the above reason and also because the knight caste that can afford power armor doesn't want peasants capable of shooting them whenever.

3. "Swords" are more honorabru

4. The setting is post-singularity and no one is actually mortal in the strictest sense, meaning people care less about optimizing their odds of not losing (since you don't die if you're killed) and care more about reputation, thus read #3.

5. Shielding tech is less effective against melee.

>> No.29545409

>>29545353

which isN'T*** allowable on a ship. . .

>> No.29545672

>>29544185
Shields are common against pure energy weapons.
Body armor is effective against ballistics
Strength augmentation makes a good blade made of futuristic metal a viable choice against body armor.
>>29544413

>> No.29545782

>>29544185
think Metal Gear will bring in HF Bows?

>> No.29545794

>>29545782

Ninja Gaiden did that. Sort of.

>> No.29545799

Well, MGR justified it by having cyborg reflexes be so bullshit fast that they can actually do the Ginji Matsuzaki "cut bullets in half in midair" trick.
>>29545782
Technically the arrowheads would have to be HF treated, and it'd be useless because arrows are even slower than bullets.

>> No.29545849

>>29544490
I know this is retarded, even as I ask it, but why not wear one over the other?

>> No.29545884

>>29544185

in that setting you can dodge bullet or cut them in half

so useing a gun agaist another cyborg doesn't make much sense

>> No.29545888

>>29544413
>>29544490
The real problem you'll run into here is that, if the enemy is SERIOUS about taking you out, they'll have trauma plates.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trauma_plate

>> No.29545942

>>29545849

They're both very heavy. Even wearing one is cumbersome, wearing both would be crippling.

>> No.29546042

>>29544500
Deadlands HoE was kind of weird about it's tech-levels, especially when it came to weapons. Despite the technology for combat-ready energy weapons and much more advanced firearms existing before the bombs dropped, 99% of the world's military and paramilitary forces still seemed to use guns more or less identical to what they do right now.

Incidentally, that poutine looks frigging horrible.

>> No.29546095

>>29544185
Stargate has an interesting example. The Goa'uld have shields that protect themselves from energy blasts and conventional firearms, but something moving slower (like an arrow) penetrates them. Because, well, otherwise they'd suffocate because the shield wouldn't be able to allow air to penetrate. It's a little silly, but it makes hand-to-hand combat viable against them.

Alternatively, you could have the game set on spaceships or spaceports, where a stray bullet cold ricochet around the room and/or cause a hull breach. Babylon 5 evades that nicely with PKGs, I think they're called (superheated plasma guns that basically just fire heat blasts that are absorbed with minimal damage into the hull on a miss).

Finally, if you're not into shields you could just hand-wave it that advanced futuristic armor's all about absorbing energy blasts, and has 0 protection against bladed weapons. It'd still be suicidal to rush a bunch of enemies with plasma rifles, but you'd basically tear through them incredibly easily. For bonus points, use a standard metal weapon instead of an energy katana or whatever, since those would be absorbed as well.

>> No.29546145

>>29545849
To a degree you do. See >>29545888. A trauma plate will stop a knife good.

Though as >>29545942 indicated, armor is heavy, and you can only wear so much before it really starts to weigh you down. I expect that's the main reason that the military keeps investing in powered exoskeletons (aside having Heinlein fans in the planning department, anyway).

>> No.29546208

>>29546145
>I expect that's the main reason that the military keeps investing in powered exoskeletons (aside having Heinlein fans in the planning department, anyway).
Really just being able to carry more shit in general. The modern infantryman is horribly overloaded with all the shit he has to carry, and they're looking for ways to alleviate that without actually reducing how much crap is carried.

>> No.29546274

Go see Pacific Rim.

>> No.29546293

>>29545884
Enemies do use guns against you, though. They just don't do very much damage.

It helps that HF Blades are ridiculous.
>weakens the molecular bonds of whatever they cut

>> No.29546322

>>29546095
>Stargate has an interesting example. The Goa'uld have shields that protect themselves from energy blasts and conventional firearms, but something moving slower (like an arrow) penetrates them. Because, well, otherwise they'd suffocate because the shield wouldn't be able to allow air to penetrate. It's a little silly, but it makes hand-to-hand combat viable against them.
Literally Dune.

>> No.29546450

>>29546208
Point. Granted it would probably be easier to rework the contents of the pack to be lighter. But then it's all by committee these days, and I imagine that, "Infantryman Field Kit Ergonomics Research," doesn't give the appropriations guys quite as many boners as, "Big Stompy Power Armor Research."

>> No.29546508

>>29546322
Yep. Only difference is Goa'uld shields were never shown to go nuclear if subjected to energy blasts.

So a slight upgrade in stability, though you do lose out on a really easy way to get around weapons treaties.

>> No.29546543

High-tech body armor that stops bullets but not technobabble blades and technology that makes someone super fast so hitting them would be hard.

>> No.29546715

>>29546450
It would also involve those committees tackling a problem that would require actually listening to feedback from the guys on the sharp end of things and have no real ways to throw buckets of money at the arms industry, so yeah, good luck with that.

>> No.29546760

people stopped using swords because guns were the new cool thing

armor and guns raced to get better than eachother

at this point armor and guns are so good they everyone has forgotten about swords

no one really uses swords except a select few, and those few are really good at it

armor is designed against bullets because no one uses swords, swords cut through armor

swordsmen wear armor that blocks bullets

>> No.29546784

>>29546715
A good chunk of the findings would probably be "This is a list of shit that we carry for absolutely no fucking reason. Stop buying and making us carry the shit on this list."

>> No.29546951

>>29546784
>It is the unanimous opinion of all infantrymen interviewed that emergency rain gear and inflatable rafts are of negligible use to soldiers on patrol in Afghanistan.

>> No.29547056

>>29546450
>>29546715
>>29546784
> the brass spending money or time on something that isn't stupid death traps masquerading as vehicles
Fuck every defense ministry on this planet. As a soldier I'm prepared to get killed but dying before the first shot has been fired is just offensive. Just look at how many soldiers were killed by their own equipment including vehicles in US campaigns alone.

>> No.29547090

>>29547056
Doesn't help that they'd rather spend money on pie in the sky concept work than on replacing aging equipment that soldiers actually USE.

>> No.29547139

>>29544185

Same reason that soldiers carry knives today. You don't want to get an AoO from trying to shoot a guy right next to you who is in melee combat with you.

>> No.29547220

>>29546951
>Upon further review, primarily involving a late-night Indiana Jones marathon, this committee has concluded that inflatable rafts continue to be a vital piece of equipment, due to their ability to sunstitute for parachutes in airborne operations.

>> No.29547286

>>29547220

The standard military pack is then included to possess a mandatory bullwhip, for the purpose of "rough terrain navigation"

>> No.29547337

>>29547090
Tell me about it.
If model X gun has Y issue that's been known since the guy commanding it from his plush chair back home was just a recruit it's high time we threw it out. Never mind the other shit that feels like Retroclones of Vietnam equipment.
But hey, DRONES LEL.

>> No.29547377

>>29547337
I'm not even talking about issues with individual models. I'm talking about the fact that some units are using individual firearms that were purchased back to the '80s!

>> No.29547407

>>29547286
And all requests for additional vehicle armour are now met with dismantled refrigerators.

>> No.29547444

>>29547407
Depending on the specific fridges you could probably make halfway decent hadji armor out of 'em, actually.

>> No.29547445

>>29547056
Fuck you, faggot. We spent a lot of money on that Osprey. In fact, we're STILL paying to revise the damn thing.
Now get in there and strap in, because I'll be damned if that money is going to waste.

>This is how the Pentagon actually thinks.

>> No.29547446

>>29544185
lightsabers can block multiple projectiles, cut holes in walls, and look way cooler than a gun. thays 3 things it does better than a gun.

>> No.29547471

>>29547445
>This is how the senators who actually make these decisions think
ftfy

>> No.29547496

>>29547446
the projectile blocking thing you have to have a built in superpower to use.
They don't really discuss just what kind of wacky shit a jedi could do with a blaster, but I'd like to think they could should blaster bolts out of the air and/or deliberately ricochet things.

>> No.29547530

>>29547377
Yea that… doesn't help either. There's way too much bullshit that's still on the level of some ex commie shithole once you go to the level of individuals.
The west simply doesn't understand the difference between fighting well and winning right now because committees and efficiency are not the best friends.

>> No.29547606

>>29546042
That's not poutine. Those are animal fries from In-n-out burger. That's cheese, onions, and whatever's in their sauce. Captain off-topic, awayyyy!

>> No.29547623

>>29547471
>>29547445
I want the drugs they took designing and approving this nonsense.
But hey, fuck you if you want guns actually on.the level of current technology. The G11 would be too good to be true.

>> No.29547674

Swords don't run out of bullets.

>> No.29547702

The big thing is they're quiet.
Plus if you're talking crazy shit they may have forcefields instead of windows or something.

>> No.29547741

>>29547674
Theoretically a futuristic gun might not, either. A small nanomachine factory could make new bullets out of dirt or sweat or hair.

>> No.29547777

>>29544297
>in dune, the force-fields cause a nuclear explosion when hit by a laser so people tend to avoid that.
that's a fucking retarded way to shield your stuff

>> No.29547785

>>29547741
And then it glitches out and starts making it out of skin

>> No.29547793

>>29546715

You don't think it might be because there's a minimum weight for all the stuff that you need?

>> No.29547799

>>29547777
It's accidental.
And it's the reason why nobody uses laser weapons. Because the blast kills the guy with the laser too.

>> No.29547823

>>29547785
Yeah but then you can just have your nano bandaid heal it.

>> No.29547824

>>29547777
It was an unintended side-effect. other than that, the shields are essentially impervious. Given that the blast radius would invariably kill the person firing the weapon, it's typically considered to be worth the risk.

>> No.29547832

>>29544185
As someone in the previous thread noted, when you add super strength into the equation, weapons that make use of that and/or enhance that damage potential are hugely viable weapons.

In theory, same would go for strength-powered ranged attacks as well.

>> No.29547851

>>29547824
Couldn't you just build a satellite and fire lasers at peoples forcefields from space, setting off a ghastly chain of nuclear explosions?

>> No.29547860

kind of unrelated, but the swords and guns in the same campaign idea got me thinking.

Has anyone ever tried to run a campaign in a Valkyria Chronicles setting?

>> No.29547872

>>29547824
yeah but it also means you get a nuke at your enemy's shield if you combine a laser weapon and some remote way to activate it

>> No.29547877

>>29547851
Short answer? No.
Just... just go read Dune.

>> No.29547893

>>29546322
>>29546095
dune had the justification of computers being illegal and universally feared due to AI rebellions in the past. And it did block arrows, and you had to use special fighting techniques with a knife to avoid getting blocked by it.

Stargate has no explanation on why the shield isn't computer controlled on what it does and does not let through.

>> No.29547894

>>29547851

Space is controlled by the Guild, and good luck getting their approval to set up a satellite that'll destroy all those valuable trading assets down there.

>> No.29547907

>>29546095
>where a stray bullet cold ricochet around the room and/or cause a hull breach

Actually, this is something that's always bugged me; wouldn't a ship designed for serious, longterm space travel, the kind where you're pretty much certain to run in to micrometeors and such eventually, have a hull robust enough that a chunk of lead's not really going to be much of a threat to it? At most, I'd think you'd be in more danger of shooting some electronic thingamjig vital to maintaining a livable enviroment.

>> No.29547912

>>29547877
I actually did read Dune, up to...I believe the second to last book? Maybe the last one. When the Bene folk who were in the far reaches of space started coming back and being all femdom.

>> No.29547913

>>29544185
No there is not
And swords were shitty sub par weapons in ancient times too

>>29547139
top lel
nope

>> No.29547917

>>29547851
Hortzmann effect will always kill the gunner. Presumably you could use a drone or other such disposable asset, but Dune's galactic populace don't really have access to much in the way of AI or robotics.

>> No.29547922

>>29547893
>Stargate has no explanation on why the shield isn't computer controlled on what it does and does not let through.
there may not actually be a convenient/reliable way to make computers do that

>> No.29547944

>>29547894
And before you ask, the Spacing Guild are basically Space Jews who have a monopoly on interstellar travel. You do NOT want to piss off the Guild.

>> No.29547946

>>29547851
As I recall, the explosion occurred for the entire path of the laser, so the sat could fire once and make a really big boom.

>> No.29547977

>>29547894
Also the Guild is run by immortal clairvoyant transhuman slug people in command of FTL ships (the only ones in the setting, mind) that make the Death Star's willy shrivel with fear. You REALLY don't want to be on their shit list.

>> No.29547994

>>29547471
Nanomachines, son!

>>29547623
Isn't the problem with the G11 that's way too fucking complicated?

We need to bring back Soviet style tech, which is either shit or completely indestructible.

>> No.29547997

>>29547917
you could do it with some completely mechanical timer or some shit. it's stone age technology.

>> No.29548031

>>29547977
>You REALLY don't want to be on their shit list.
Unless you control Arrakis and have a means to protect that control against all comers. Then you have the ultimate threat with which to twist the Guild's arm, as they are completely and utterly reliant on The Spice. And that, children, is how Paul Muad'dib became ruler of the known universe.

>> No.29548038

>>29547912
Incidentally, could anyone give me a loose idea of what happened with those bitches?
Also, I recall the the worm-god and his dad making a huge deal about this great threat from the future, which is why the worm-god beefed up his intergalactic empire.
What was that threat?

>> No.29548052

>>29544185
Cut shit

>> No.29548068

>>29547944

I wouldn't call them Space Jews, more like Space-Venice. They controlled all of the trade/travel, and just happened to make a shitload of money because of that.

>>29548031

Padishah Emperor and Ruler of the Known Universe*

>> No.29548093

>>29548068
>I wouldn't call them Space Jews, more like Space-Venice.
I was trying for that whole "humorously racist" angle.

>> No.29548163

>>29548093
Who knew we had young Republicans on /tg/

>> No.29548176

>>29548163
dont tempt they-who-shall-not-be-named to come

>> No.29548192

why WOULD you use a melee weapon over a ranged one

there's basically two reasons:
>convenience
sidearms are useful and sometimes people who want to fight you are close
>damage
armor that's hard to get through with ranged weapons

>> No.29548202

>>29548038
The threat wasn't any outside force. It was stagnation. Stagnation = death. Remember that. The whole thing with Leto II was part of an elaborate and far reaching plan to force humanity to abandon the confines of known space and the rigid Faufreluches class structure.
http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/The_Golden_Path

>> No.29548213

>>29548192
Also remember sometimes guns are more expensive or better regulated than things you cut food with.

>> No.29548294

>>29547997
The Houses will sometimes use that sort of thing as a trap. A shield generator and a lasgun wired up to a timer, left in some area that they've been forced to cede to some rival, or that they know rival personnel must pass through. Gets around the bans on atomic weaponry, blows up all the hostiles you could ask for, and is dirt cheap to boot.

Of course, usually when it's used this way it's "hidden" in a reasonably obvious place, so that they new tenants will find it, let their guard down, and get owned by the real trap. Except that the real trap is also not the real trap, because that would be too obvious, etc. etc. All part of the great game of Spy vs. Spy that is House politics/warfare/Sunday brunch.

>> No.29549324

>>29544185
Local laws prohibit firearms but not blades.

Done.

>> No.29549373

>>29549324

Because if I'm going to murder someone, sell implements to people who want to murder someone, or live a life where incoming murder is a high-probability event, I obviously give a whole helluvalot of a shit about what the laws are.

>> No.29549433

>>29549373
When the laws determine the availability of your tools of murder you probably do.

>> No.29549471

>>29549433

They may determine the PRICE of my tools of murder, but availability is ubiquitous unless law-enforcement is skilled/omnipresent to the degree that murders wouldn't take place to begin with, swords or otherwise.

>> No.29549475

I can't remember what setting it was but there was one explanation I liked that explained force fields reacted to the high kinetic force of a bullet, so swords were just a way to get through while ignoring the force field issue

>> No.29549481

>>29549373
Basic Premise is:
>Is there a 'good' justification for using a sword in a high tech setting?

The other minutia of the setting has no bearing. Thus, the Individual in question using a sword may be entirely law-abiding, whether by moral code, necessity (Totalitarian regime ho!) or that having been illegalised in favour of other easily-acquirable legal weapons of death and destruction, guns are fuckhard to get compared to a sword or knife you can pick up in the sports section of Wal-Mart.

tl;dr not everyone is a flagrant law-abusing murderhobo with infeasible amounts of hard cash.

>> No.29549496

>>29549433
Because clearly banning things keeps people from getting their hands on them. Just look at how well that whole "war on drugs" thing is working out for the Americans!

>> No.29549504

>>29549324
That's actually one thing that's bothered me by a lot of rpg settings - they all just assume you're allowed to walk around civilized places wearing armor and packing heavy weapons.

What if, what IF not every place is the wild fucking west? What if you actually go to somewhere civilized where there are laws against walking around in power armor and with a fully automatic shotgun in each hand?

>> No.29549512

>>29549471
>availability is ubiquitous

Not everywhere is America or Africa, you know. Guns are generally illegal and extremely hard to get in civilised countries.

>> No.29549536

>>29549512
Especially if you're in a sci fi setting where they could very easily have some sort of sensor that sweeps for stuff like laser power packs and gunpowder molecules.

>> No.29549547

>>29549496
Works well in most other countries that illegalised it.

America's war on drugs problem is that they went completely pants-on-head retarded with the enforcement and punishment of such. Like most things, really.

>> No.29549575

>>29549536
>and gunpowder molecules.
I mean fuck, we have bomb sniffers in airports now.

In your average Sci-fi setting tech level and they're easycakes to implement.

>> No.29549586 [DELETED] 

Alright, Grey Knights are Knights/Paladins, White Scars are Mongolians, Space Wolves are Vikings, Eldar are Elves, Necrons are Egyptians, etc.

Who are the Cowboys of the 40k universe? Inquisitors have the look, but in essence are, well, church Inquisitors.

>> No.29549598

>>29549475

>can't remember a sci-fi classic that has been mentioned several times in this thread

Maybe you should just stop being underaged.

>> No.29549607

Usually oppressive authoritarian regimes that ban stuff like guns and free speech usually ban anything bigger than a butter knife too.

>> No.29549615

>>29549586
Wrong thread, buddy.

>> No.29549626

Kill things quietly.
Kill things in a place filled with volatile equipment and chemicals.
Perform surgery.
Use it as a lever.
Not kill someone with it and avoiding accidentally killing yourself with an unexpected discharge while doing so.
Not run out of ammunition.
Torture someone effectively with it without risking accidental discharge or wasting ammunition.

The list goes on.

>> No.29549634

And here comes the endless debate about guns that's eventually gonna devolve into nationalistic dick measuring.

>> No.29549647

>>29549607
Usually, yeah. The premise in this instance is that they aren't though, so work from that instead.

>> No.29549695

>>29544185
Take Dune, or Mass Effect as an example
Shields that block anything too fast, but don't block slow things(reasons for this can be explained many ways).
Swords go right through the shields

>> No.29549873

Not to bring up Forever War again from the Spaceship thread, but they had to use melee weapons (shields/spears etc) because of the use of a stasis field.

Its more of a defensive thing. IIRC: You blow up everywhere around you with bombs/radiation and such, and you hide inside your statis field till shits safe enough to escape. Lasers, shields, technology etc doesnt work. People cant see in or out of the field unless you're 'in' it.

So while in the field, only way to protect yourself if melee and your suit.

>> No.29549930

Did all of /tg/ snort some spice or something? Three "Dune" responses to OP within a minute of each other, and nobody mentions any other setting in this thread besides Stargate, which is effectively the same reason for swords as Dune?

How about Star Wars? Blades that deflect lasers and pre-cognitives to wield them.

How about that Christian Bale movie, Equillibrium. It had "Gun Kata" which was a martial art that trained users to predict where other people would aim and shoot in any given situation.

How about any cyberpunk setting, where cyborgs can shrug off bullet wounds and/or dodge bullets and close distances in fractions of seconds? Or where they have some kind of integrated camo, or integrated weapons (like claws) so they can appear to be unarmed?

This thread is disappointing, /tg/.

>> No.29549957

>>29549930
too far-fetched even by sci-fi standards

>> No.29549980

>>29549930
>How about any cyberpunk setting, where cyborgs can shrug off bullet wounds and/or dodge bullets and close distances in fractions of seconds?
MGR was mentioned more than once.

>> No.29549997

>>29549930
>How about Star Wars? Blades that deflect lasers and pre-cognitives to wield them.
lightsabers are fucking retarded

>How about that Christian Bale movie, Equillibrium. It had "Gun Kata"
How the fuck does gun kata justify swords? its not called sword kata for a reason.

>How about any cyberpunk setting, where cyborgs can shrug off bullet wounds and/or dodge bullets and close distances in fractions of seconds?
if they can shrug off bullets they can shrug off swords even better, especially considering armor piercing bullets. Swords are fucking retarded in such a case, but hammers make a lot of a sense.
And unless their super speed comes with super reflexes they will be klutsy as fuck and trip instead of closing the distance. The improved reflexes make guns even more important and allow for impressive long range duels with such weapons.

>> No.29550020

>>29549997
>lightsabers are fucking retarded
Your opinions aren't really a good metric for responding to the OP premise with, you know.

Construct an actual fucking argument, or don't post at all for fuck's sake.

>> No.29550106

>>29544185
Battles within ships and Zephyr particles are all that were needed to put good ol' battleaxe to action. And, I suppose, armored parts being able to reflect laser beams.

>> No.29550109

Concealment like smoke bombs and shit can render missile weapons useless, and smoke bombs are very cheaply made, even by poor people. So chop away.

>> No.29550131

>>29544185
I like how 40k handled it. Armor has become so excellent and effecient at what it does there are new weapons needed in order to counter that: massive fucking hunks of metal swung by super/abhumans with the cutting edge of [insert whatever sci-fi force here] technology to make it slice through damn near anything.

>> No.29550139

>>29550020
Shotguns and explosives will easily defeat a lightsaber as a weapon. As a cutting tool, of course, they're unsurpassed.

>> No.29550164

>>29549997
>if they can shrug off bullets they can shrug off swords even better
I think the idea was to use power weapons

>> No.29550173

>>29549997
>if they can shrug off bullets they can shrug off swords even better,

yfw most armor and cyborg implants are more effective vs. bullets instead of vs. swords.

>> No.29550178

>>29550106

God damn were the Imperials badass when it came to close quarters combat.

They even had one guy who was a fucking berserker, but he was on the wrong side of a civil war.

>> No.29550235

>>29549930
forever war mentioned just above

>> No.29550265

>>29550139
I don't know what the official reason was, but I do know that in the movies users of the Force were like mythical beings. It makes sense that you wouldn't be able to find a projectile weapon when lasers are the de-facto standard and are only (possibly) effective against a threat you'd not realistically expect to see even once in your life.

>> No.29550319

Price of armor piercing bullets go up. Otherwise use as big knife. You have your big assault/machine gun/sniper rifle/automatic shotgun, a sidearm pistol/uzi/short barrel shotgun, and a multitool weapon - knife/axe/power tool. Sword goes under knife. Each have uses in different scenarios. Also drones/explosives/flamethrowers/rockets, but thats besides the point.
It's usually a backup weapon, not main one tho, unless ammo is too expansive or enemies armor is weak to specific type of trauma (in this case slashing). In witch case you should probably use gas grenades, because, if you can only afford ballistic, you sure as hell are not affording all the gas mask filters.
Sword canes or something like that is bit easier to conceal, and you dont have to put together like concealed guns (unless you are going for one shot per barrel).
Also if you have extensive training/augmentation(because guns are illegal, and you cant get gun training), and have aim so bad, you cant hit brood side of a barn/shoot friendly fire a lot.
Also you can cut down on munition weight by a lot.

>> No.29550397

>>29550164
>I think the idea was to use power weapons
how the fuck does that even work?

>> No.29550408

>>29550265
When you're waging years long wars vs said beings, you'd think someone would get to work developing some anti-jedi weaponry

>> No.29550424

>>29550397
They use MORE POWER

>> No.29550428

>>29550173
>yfw most armor and cyborg implants are more effective vs. bullets instead of vs. swords.
except, it isn't. except by DM fiat maybe
in which case you can just say "the gods decreed that people's skin stops bullets but not swords"

>>29550020
lightsabers are retarded because they are an awful and inefficient weapon that stinks of mary sue, they lack coherancy and there is no reason they couldn't have been made into a ranged weapon, and in fact many jedi do use them as a ranged weapon by piloting them with the force.

>> No.29550451

>>29544612
You need to hold the thing to keep the psychic mumbo jumbo space magic force? Then use wire guided missiles. You're still charging the weapon with your thing, with the added benefit of 100-300m of range, guidance and the hit being a confirmed kill 100% of the time.

>> No.29550462

>>29550397
you can make a bit of matter that breaks everything it touches but shooting it is inconvinient without a large contraption so you put it on a stick and swing it at things

>> No.29550472

Damn near everyone is bulletproof, but not swordproof.

>> No.29550476

Defensive technology works in such a way that ranged weapons don't work, such as a deflection field that can be entered by a combatant and then fight them in melee without fear of their shield.
Ranged combat causes too much collateral damage, such as shipboard fighting or some such. This also has to come with advanced armour technology at the same time, otherwise they could use ammunition that reduces the collateral damage dealt.

I'm not sold on bionics assisting melee weapons that much because the same things that improve swords improve firearms. Enhanced speed and reflexes are just as valuable for firearms, but also make it easier to deflect, parry or dodge sword strokes. Bullets, however are somewhat difficult more difficult to dodge than swords, so these enhancements would probably actually widen the gap between swords and firearms.

>> No.29550477

>>29550428
Perhaps they are just too elegant of weapons for such an uncivilized poster.

>> No.29550486

>>29550397
Well they make your weapon AP3 for one...

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Power_Weapons

>> No.29550493

>>29550462
>Magic technology that disintegrates things on touch
>Cannot be shot
>Only outfitted to a sword

This doesn't make any sense. Even if you had such implausible tech then you would put it on a crossbow or a thrown javalin instead of a sword.

>> No.29550532

>>29550486
Making such a think into a sword is retarded. Awful misuse of the technology.

>> No.29550547

>>29550178
Imperials were badass, but they didn't got shit against motherfucking Rosenritter.

>> No.29550554

>>29550428
Kevlar will help vs a bullet but not a blade. Some bullet resistant materials just don't do well vs slashing. The forces being shielded against just don't have similar properties

>> No.29550590

>>29550428
For the Jedi it isn't about having an efficient weapon. It's tradition. Its construction, learning the different lightsaber forms, it's all about concentration and discipline. The lightsaber is a tool to the Jedi, and an icon.

>> No.29550640

>>29550493
fuck goddamn you are missing the point it doesn't necessarily disintegrate but it hurts some armored thing or other better than something you can shoot and it needs some large piece of tech to work so that it needs to be bigger than something a rifle can fire and then you have reason to use it melee.

>> No.29550664 [DELETED] 

>>29550554
1. A slashing attack will never penetrate kevlar
http://vimeo.com/8502720
it has to be a penetrating strike with the tip using incredible power, which can also be provided by an armor piercing bullet.
2. kevlar anti bullet vests are very highly specialized against bullets, its entirely possible to, at minimal cost, make them more generalist armor.
3. metal armor, ceramic armor, and carbon nano-fiber are all vastly superior in stopping bullets than swords

>> No.29550680

>>29550590
which is why i said its retarded
its not a real weapon, its a ceremonial badge of a religious order.

>> No.29550689

>>29550680
So all ceremonial badges that you happen to be able to hit people really well with are suddenly fucking retarded?

>> No.29550713

>>29550554
1. A slashing attack will never penetrate kevlar
http://vimeo.com/8502720
it has to be a powerful penetrating strike; either via a knife or an armor piercing bullet
2. metal armor, ceramic armor, and carbon nano-fiber are all vastly superior in slashing attacks rather then piercing ones.

so... what kind of armor is left?
dm fiat magic armor, which is why I said "at which point you might as well say because the gods decreed as such"

>> No.29550734

If ranged weapons, for whatever reason, became unusable we'd switch to spears for warfare, not swords.

>> No.29550753

In the wise words of some chuckle fuck,

"A bullet can only go as fast as it's shot. A sword can go as fast as you swing it"

>> No.29550772

>>29550713
>dm fiat magic armor
calling something 'dm fiat' just because it doesn't exist in the real world is not how you do escapism

>> No.29550777

>>29550734
spears, polearms, chains, hammers, axes...
all are better than swords, way better.

>> No.29550790

>>29550772
look back at the op
>Is there a 'good' justification for using a sword in a high tech setting?

>> No.29550824

>>29550790
"setting" implies that it's not the real world.

>> No.29550887

>>29550824
"good justification" implies its not completely off the wall

>> No.29550890

There's only so much that one person can carry.
To block lasers, maybe you need to strap on a heavy energy shield generator, whose weight doesn't allow one to wear much physical protection. This would leave them vulnerable to a more conventional attack, be it from a gun, or a sword.

With the popularity of laser weapons came the decline in traditional firearms. Because they are rare, and considered to be antiques, the average soldier won't expect to deal with a traditional firearm.

Power armour that allows for physical and laser protection, as well as the ability to move, is expensive to produce and maintain.

>> No.29550901

>>29550887
if it's high tech they'll be using weapons we don't have yet and armors to counter them that we also don't have yet. how are you going to guess how they work or what weaknesses they have?

>> No.29550917

>>29549504
>players walk into a weapon and armour shop
>all of them get shifty eyes from customers
>they start bartering over a few swords and pieces of chainmail that caught their eye
>suddenly out of no where the town guard barrels into the shop and surround them with pikes
>it turns out you need a license or writ to buy swords or armour
>players get arrested on suspicion of intent to illegally purchase arms and because there is a war going on, the players get dunked into a cell deep in the nearby castle to await special interrogators and troops

I want to do this just once

>> No.29550926

>>29550901
physics

>> No.29550989

>>29547851
Dune is retarded. It's not a scify setting, more a fantasy setting hiding as science fiction. There is a lot of rules that don't make sense from a science point of view, and you need to automatically assume that everyone is technologically retarded. It's not bad, just different.

War40k is more of a science fiction setting than Dune.

>> No.29551030

Some options I can see:
-Readily available field effect which causes indiscriminate deflection or diffusion of projectiles and beams over distance(realistic forcefields would likely do something like this, potentially with a greater deflection for greater velocities). This means that effectiveness reduces dramatically with range, the shorter the distances involved, the less an attack is thrown off. Self guided rocketry can work, but designing to compensate for the deflection would make them pretty costly.

-Increased effectiveness of armor. Modern tech has damage capacity far above defensive capacity. It's one of the things which made firearms so ascendant over melee combat(aside from ease of use and training), you can expect to shoot, hit and kill even across a large distance, making it pretty improbable for an opponent to reach you in close combat even if you miss most of your shots. Cheap, extremely effective armor(enough to stop anything man portable for the duration of a charge across open ground) would favor augmented close combat weapons, which can strike for the weaknesses in armor better than a ranged weapon against a moving opponent who's visually little more than a dot, and with the striking power and inertia that an anchored object can do better than a projectile.

-High effectiveness combat prediction and effective wired reflexes. Presuming no true beam weapons(speed of light beams rather than visible progression beams), the long projected path of a projectile attack allows any ranged attack you are aware of to be plotted and evaded from the position of the muzzle and flash, while only a relatively small adjustment is necessary to invalidate the initial aiming. At closer range, prediction has less time to compute a path, so effectiveness increases.

>> No.29551058

>>29550777
Ok, Listen. Do you know what I did this morning? I bent a twelve year old serving boy over a stool and fucked him right in his tight little Greek arse.

I then went downstairs, cleaned myself of the juices of exertion in the impluvium, and then got out, and fucked two more serving boys right in their little greek arses.

Then I got drunk, and was fucked in *my* arse by a large, muscular Sicilian, while fucking yet another serving boy in his little greek arse.

After all of this, I sit down at my Roman Computer (No, you don't need to know where a Roman got a computer, fuck off) and read this:

>all are better than swords

And the only thing I can think of, but the ONLY THING after a day spent fucking young boys and being fucked by burly men is just how much of a flaming faggot you must be to type those words.

You may take your beef with the noble Gladius up with the Legion, you flagrant catamite, because I am done with you. Pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo.

>> No.29551085

>>29551058
I was just going to ask that someone post this

>> No.29551098

Mass deployment of nano weapons that eat gunpowder, or otherwise fuck up firearms.

If it's some sort of ubiquitous big brother surveillance system, maybe swords would be something the would be tagged too. So your only hope is a carefully crafted solid cylindrical crystal/glass disguised-as-an-innocuous-tool-thing that you smash, exposing a jagged sword part with which you have at it.

Throw it away after use, and run like hell and hide from the summoned officer pax-bots.

Welcome to your new SciFi, post-human, violence is still with us, setting

>> No.29551134

>>29551098
>Mass deployment of nano weapons that eat gunpowder
You'd just deploy nano weapons that eat the enemy instead.

>> No.29551153

>>29551134
you might not actually want to do that. aside from the political repercussions there's just some things you'd rather not have exist.

>> No.29551164

>>29549373
In some more civilised country than USA, like Korea, Japan of China, the unavailability of firearms is such that local yakuza kills themselves with big knifes. Almost all local wars except maybe the biggest of the biggest are resolved by guys with small swords.

I'm sorry if you live in a third world country where firearms are available everywhere, like Iraq, Mali, or the United States.

>> No.29551179

>>29550890
Also, weapons that could be powered by universal power packs or run indefinitely by plugging them into the wall quickly overshadowed weapons whose ammunition had to be manufactured.

>> No.29551201

>>29547471
Actually, it's:
"Fuck you, faggot. We spent a lot of money on that Osprey. In fact, we're STILL paying to revise the damn thing.
Now get in there and strap in, because I'll be damned if that money isn't going to keep going to waste in my state."

>> No.29551217

Body armor technology renders bullets/lazers useless but people have found a new technology applied on melee weapon that can pierce that bullet/lazer-proof armor.

>> No.29551247

>>29551153
>aside from the political repercussions
The first side to eat the enemy's forces wins and proceeds to write the rules, and history books.
With technology like that around it would just be a matter of time before somebody used it in the most effective way.

>>29551217
>a new technology applied on melee weapon
Are there any justifications like this that can also exclude everyone just proceeding to build crossbows utilizing said technology?

>> No.29551256

>>29550917
>once
Because more than that and you'd be a douchebag.

>> No.29551269

>>29551134
>You'd just deploy nano weapons that eat the enemy instead.

Don't forget something that might be peace oriented, so the nano would not just be used as to inflict pacman hell.

Although, some sort of shielding that was extremely non-reactive with nano. Something that it could not get a "grip" on. So you can still run around in your armor.

Still need a reason for why you could not just coat a firearm in the stuff, perhaps it's too expensive, or perhaps it does not handle shock, so the barrel protection does not last long.

Of course that effects the swords as well, rapiers would be the thing since you need only poke a hole in someone and let the nano in.

Oh, and then there's the potential of a firearm coated in the anti-nano stuff, but it's a one shot deal because of all this and ...

Oh hell, hi tech musketeers and away we go.

>> No.29551273

>>29551256
it'd be an interesting plot hook you know

>being in rome and not doing as romans do

kinda thing

>> No.29551290

>>29551247
>The first side to eat the enemy's forces wins and proceeds to write the rules, and history books.
the idea was that the repercussions come from people you aren't at war with or who are on your side

eventually any doom weapon might potentially be used, but it's an idea that's pretty easy to disagree with in any event.

>> No.29551322

Doesn't need ammo.
Can be used more effectively in close quarters.
Intimidation factor.
> whoa that dude just chopped off Steve's arm, I'd better stay clear of him or shoot him or whatever
Augmented character deflects bullets
> holy shit he deflected the bullet there's no chance in HELL I'm fighting him, I like my arms where they are
Can be used as tools in the outdoors. (daggers are more versatile here though)

And finally:
Rule of cool.

>> No.29551324

>>29551247
>Are there any justifications like this that can also exclude everyone just proceeding to build crossbows utilizing said technology?
being bigger or much more expensive than a crossbow bolt

>> No.29551331

Honestly, guns stop being effective at very close ranges. If you have something (spaceships, cramped hallways) that confines the conflicts to such distances, knife fighting or whatever is a viable option. That said, if you have some sword infused with 'super energy' that can cut through anything, it's probably cheaper to use it on one single object, rather than entire magazines full of similar projectiles that you will only ever get to use once

>> No.29551357

>>29551290
What I mean is that, even if scaling the use back from "eat all enemies", nano-technological weapons would have a million more prudent uses than eating enemy propellants (despite gunpowder being kept in airtight casings).

>>29551324
Adding anything more than a few hundred grams would render a sword unwieldy, any more than kilogram would make it near useless.

>> No.29551394

honestly, when you have enough strength to throw a mecha into the air, a piddly little gun is actually far less effective. There's a point on the far end of the spectrum where strength does surpass the force of a bullet, and after that it doesn't matter how big your muscles are, you won't be able to pull the trigger hard enough to make the gun do more damage. Thus, to get better actual efficiency out of your mods, a melee weapon suits far better in terms of doing damage.

This is of course assuming that the enemies you fight will take more than one bullet before they go down.

>> No.29551413

>>29551331
Hive cities would be good for this too. If you miss the first shot they're on you and the ricochet is probably going to hit entirely the wrong thing. And if you use directed energy/plasma weapons in an enclosed, oxygen enriched space, you get what you deserve.


Query: If you take a laser weapon, increase the output rate so that you have a continuous beam and the power supply so you don't have to worry about running out.
Is this a sword or a gun? It's beam's length is Line of Sight.

>> No.29551467

>>29551413
I think that technically constitutes a very long melee weapon

it's also fucking cheating

>> No.29551483

>>29551467
Giant fuckoff laser sword oh god yes

>> No.29551513

>>29544185
Gun control means firearms are a no-no, and everyone carries melee weapons

You're playing a Jedi or something and have access to ''Parry missile weapons''

Shields can stop bullets and energy weapons, but not swords for some reason

A clusterfuck of space-Geneva conventions places severe restrictions on what military equipment you can use, thus your army is equipped with medieval tech

You're a general or whatever and carry it for ceremonial purposes

You're a nobleman and need to know how to use one in case you get challenged to a duel

Warfare is highly ritualized and thus everyone operates with a medieval tech level in terms of weaponry

You're playing warhammer 40k tabletop where typical infantry weapons have a range between 20 and 50 meters

Laser swords can cut through space armor, but they don't make laser bullets for some reasons

>> No.29551518

>>29551357
>Adding anything more than a few hundred grams would render a sword unwieldy, any more than kilogram would make it near useless.
not if it fucking disassembles matter. or it could be that it's not more heavy than normal sword parts but takes more space than anything you can shoot at stuff. or that it needs to actually be held against the armor in question to go through instead of just being shot at it.

also, another thought: they could be used as a tool, sort of, against something near impenetratable that's ineffective at fighting infantry, similarly as how people took out tanks by screwing with the tires.

>> No.29551520

>>29544490
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x59iN4KMz4

>> No.29551522

>>29551413

Well, your trusty shield now consists of a can of anti-laz aerosol. You now run up to said laser operator in a blast of spraying and screaming and bash them around with a crowbar.

Or take the laser apart with it.

So technically ... it's a crowbar sword magnet.

>> No.29551568

>>29551513

Go with the dune route. Shields block projectiles/weapons that go over a certain speed.

>> No.29551582

>>29551518
Those are all pretty good reasons.
I like the idea of it used as a tool though, good for bulkheads, good for enemy combatants.

>>29551522
>anti-laz aerosol
No such thing.
It's a stupid idea to begin with

>> No.29551599

>>29551582

>No such thing.
>It's a stupid idea to begin with

So laser beams can't be blocked by any amount of dust or gas? Pretty sure just the regular atmosphere helps to diffuse laser beams.

>> No.29551633

>>29551599
Correct: kilometers of atmosphere will.
A few meters deep of exceptionally thick particles will not disrupt anything with more energy than a ranging laser.

>> No.29551820

>>29551518
>>Adding anything more than a few hundred grams would render a sword unwieldy, any more than kilogram would make it near useless.
>not if it fucking disassembles matter.
actually, yes if it fucking disassembles matter. Disassembling matter doesn't mean that an overweight sword is suddenly balanced and easy to wield.

>> No.29551837

>>29551247
>Are there any justifications like this that can also exclude everyone just proceeding to build crossbows utilizing said technology?
none whats-over can be imagined, which is why they are so butthurt about it

>> No.29551891

>>29551820
it makes the necessity of of wielding it skillfully go away.

>> No.29551900

>>29551633
What you need is a glitter spray.

>> No.29551960

>>29551900
So you can look fabulous as you roast?

>> No.29551980

Is there a 'good' justification for using fists in a high tech setting? Like pic related, robots, cyborgs things like that. What could you possibly do with fists that the same technology put into guns couldn't?

>> No.29552032

>>29551980
People are always armed with fists, whereas guns can be confiscated. Fists dont need ammo. Punching someone so hard their head flies away sends a different message to shooting them in the head. personal shielding works in such a way to allow close combat impact weaponry but not high velocity mass drivers.

>> No.29552110

>>29551960
Naw, a sufficiently dense cloud of reflective material can help diffuse the beam a little before it burns away. Gives you time to stab them with your own mile long laser sword.

>> No.29552113

>>29550408
Not when the power players on both sides are force wielders themselves, who wouldn't want to risk ending up on the wrong side of the weapon. The only major wars in Star Wars that only had force users on one side that I remember (granted, I'm not heavily into the EU) were the wars against the Mandos and the Vong. The former didn't really encounter any jedi until the end of the war, and the latter all used bioweapons (and were pretty good at fighting force users anyway). Outside of that, there were a few examples of anti-Jedi weapons, but they were mostly in the form of creatures that nullified force powers.

>> No.29552119 [SPOILER] 

>>29551980
>Is there a 'good' justification for using fists in a high tech setting?
NANOMACHINES, SON

>> No.29552139

>>29551413
What if it was battleship sized? Is it still a lightsaber?

>> No.29552185

>>29552110

Operative word "little", at best you might buy enough time to bring the sword down but you would still be dead.

>> No.29552207

Not sure if this has already been mentioned but I like to use the Dune justification.

Personal shields are relatively common. They deflect solid projectiles, lasers turn them into nuclear bombs so only swords and knives can be used.

There's also the issue of spaceship hulls. You don't want to poke a hole in the hull so you can use shotguns or anti-personal rounds that aren't very good against armour. There's also the case of close-quarters fighting. Modern soldiers all have knives and they get used from time to time. A sword is just a bit less practical but there a few cases of them being used in modern wars.

>> No.29552261

>>29552110
If you know the beam is coming from far enough away to disperse a cloud of particles, you also have to just move out of the way.
But regardless, it's such a useless tactic it's best to not bother at all.

>> No.29552320

>>29547944
Man, you'd be able to describe *most* factions in Dune as space jews for one reason or another. Hardly the most useful description.

>> No.29552388

>>29552207
>Not sure if this has already been mentioned but I like to use the Dune justification.

It has, several times. And it doesn't make it any. Less. Stupid.

Also, the "holes in a spacecraft" argument is seriously overblown. A bullet hole is not going to suck a man through it like with the alien in Aliens: Resurrection, it's just a one measly atmosphere of pressure difference.

>> No.29552402

>>29552388
But Anon, the space demons will be able to swim inside if you make a hole in the ship!

>> No.29552426

>>29552402

And thats why you have purity seals in the standard damage control kit that gets issued to everyone. If you see a hole you stamp one on it, and as a bonus it also stops the air from leaking out.

>> No.29552509

>>29552261
Clearly you need some shoulder mounted apparatus to constantly maintain a cloud of glitter around you.

>> No.29552546

Well in my setting all the officers in once faction still carry swords and take part in duels from time to time. And because of advances in materials they are still quite handy at killing lightly armoured people with guns unable to penetrate your own armour. Hell a good two handed thrust will go right through some chest armour.

>> No.29552551

>>29552509
And smoke machines to complement its effectiveness.
Now how can we include mirror balls and platform shoes into this set-up?

>> No.29552552

>>29552388
>>29552207
The Dune answer is meh. The only real justification is a very specific set of circumstances.

1. Body Armor is sufficiently advanced that explosives and fire-arms are not very effective against it. I'm not just talking "Its meh" I'm talking "You'd be better off hitting people with pool noodles if they're wearing this shit"

2. The material for making body-armor breaking weapons is so expensive that its only practical to construct melee weapons with it.

Warhammer 40,000 is a good example of this, as bolters are only moderately effective against Power Armor, lasguns less so, and Power Weapons are expensive and hard to construct, and are with few exceptions the only effective things against Power Armor.

However since those other exceptions include tank rounds and explosives, it still doesn't make much sense.

But thats the basic ideas of how you'd create a semi-realistic setting in which melee weapons were superior and common in a post-gun setting.
>>29551980
Here at least one of two situations needs to be true. One is the above, but "Fists" are the powerful material. This would include something like nanobots or Ki making it so, but that begs the question of why not just use Ki on your weapons a la Trunks?

The second possibility is that the characters are so powerful the only thing strong enough to damage people is themselves. You'll see this in comics where weapons are so fragile they just shatter, and the only effective way of taking out a villain of sufficient strength is through grappling them.

Superman killed Zod by breaking his neck, because throwing Zod at damn near anything except Superman flesh was not going to work.

>> No.29552553

>>29544185
Not really, no.

You need to come up with some sort of silly rule like 'its effetive against fast moving objects, but not against slow moving ones' and that is very much the same as 'because i said so'

A sword and a bullet work on similar principles - damage is caused by making mass strike a target. Problem is that bullets tend to have much more kinetic energy than we can do with our arms, and have a absurdly greater range.

And if you think that cyborg arms would have more strenght than our normal arms, then well, you just need bigger bullets. Tank shells are nothing but big bullets...

>> No.29552554

>>29552509

You would need so much glitter to even take the edge off just one laser blast that it would be impractical to carry around, never mind several.

>> No.29552584

>>29552552
>This would include something like nanobots

>> No.29552599

>>29552509
>>29552110
Do you know what happens when a laser hits a glitter cloud?

The glitter cloud absorbs a significant fraction of the light energy. Some of it radiates it back outwards. The rest is converted to heat energy, in particularly kinetic energy - and lots of it.

The first wave of photons will superheat the outer layer, causing it to ablate and vaporise and disintegrate in milliseconds due to the high surface area. That superheated material will expand and cause the air around it to superheat too, and so on and so forth -

Heated air expands, and blows away parts of the glitter, and it is now useless.

By which I mean your glitter explodes when hit by a laser.

>> No.29552602

>>29552552
>Superman killed Zod by breaking his neck, because throwing Zod at damn near anything except Superman flesh was not going to work.

MAN OF MORDOR

>> No.29552608

>>29544349
Depends.

Pure kevlar is meh. It is virtually immune to a slashing knife, but isnt that hard to penetrate by a stabbing one. Problem is that it will only stop shots from small handguns.

'war' armor today is kevlar + trauma plates, and that is capable of stopping rifle rounds. A knife is useless if hitting a trauma plate, and even a big weapon like a axe won't be really effective. If it is tough enough to stop a rifle shot, then you have no way to produce enough energy with your arms to get through it. Yes, you might still break a few bones with a strike, but it will not get through.

>> No.29552629

>>29552553
How many super-specialised tank shells can you carry, and how fast can you swivel your tank turret to track three or four heavily armed fast moving humanoid targets? When they're all carrying melee weapons that can cut through your armour with ease?

There's plenty of reasons why swords can become useful over firearms. Not having enough tank shells is one.

>> No.29552630

>>29552388
It's not good if you intend to spend long periods of time in the spacecraft.
A projectile weapon is going to:
A) bounce off a strong surface and ricochet until it hits something yielding
B) punch through or embed into the wall/hull, reducing structural integrity, and possibly losing air you can't afford to lose, unless you can synthesize air from energy and space dust.

An energy weapon would:
A) generate a lot of atmospheric heating in an enclosed space damaging climate control systems and causing internal damage to crucial components.
B) possibly roast you from the backblast at the short range

An explosive weapon would do a bunch of damage with overpressure to both the environment and everyone in the enclosed area.

Any ranged weapon just isn't worth it. What's the longest straight line you can expect in a spacecraft when every inch of space is valuable for either equipment, supplies or living space? When you're talking about 20ft engagement ranges as generous, you're looking at knife, fists and shortsword fights. Long blades would be pretty awkward to use, so sorry to the katana fans.

Any projectile or grenade weapon is wasteful of material. It's chemical and metal resources that are difficult to replace and could be used for vital functions.

>> No.29552658

>>29552599
>By which I mean your glitter explodes when hit by a laser.

Sounds like a winner.

>> No.29552670

>>29552551
Jet assist boots and sacrificial mirror drones?

>> No.29552671

>>29552658
Then the laser punches right through it after the next few milliseconds.

You'd be better off having some sort of ultracondensed glitter in some kind of... plate, like armour, an... armour.. plate...

>> No.29552720

>>29552630
The best method for boarding actions would be to carry a bomb with a dead hand switch.
Step on board and politely ask the crew, for their sake and yours, to hold fire unless they want to die.

>> No.29552733

>>29552671
Chromed power suits and lightsabers, your objective is to scar the chrome with sustained heat damage so that you can penetrate the armor or stab it in the optics.
It's going to be a real pretty sight, though it still needs justification for stopping bullets in addition to lasers.

>>29552630
So the ideal weapon is a tazer tipped spear?

>> No.29552777

>>29552733
>Chromed
If you wanted to be taken seriously you would have said something like ceramic.

>> No.29552799

>>29552733
>Chromed power suits and lightsabers
So, what happens is the laser hits the chrome, superheats it, and the chrome then explodes, then the laser punches through.

You can't really deflect lasers like that very effectively.

>> No.29552801

>>29552777
Let's have both. Chromed ceramic armor.

>> No.29552833

Really any situation in which combat occurs between people in really close proximity, such as ship boarding actions and the interior of buildings.

The rule of cool is also pretty good justification.

>> No.29552838

>>29547851
Actuallty, yes you could. And there are also suggestions in the book that that was done or at least attempted. But use of nukes is outlawed kinda like today so if someone blows up a shield with laser he will have to deal with all the others combined.

>> No.29552843

>>29552630
>It's not good if you intend to spend long periods of time in the spacecraft.

I was assuming that if you are boarding a spacecraft you have another, probably more intact spacecraft nearby for long tern inhabitation.

Overall, what you should use when boarding a spacecraft depends on what you want from it.

Something/someone from the ship? The damage to the ship itself is irrelevant, go wild with anything that might give you the edge. Be careful around the objective, or anywhere near the objective, obviously.

The ship itself? I would assume that you'd need to at least mission kill, if not out right disable the ship if you want to board it, so you infantry mounted weapons probably won't fuck up the ship any worse than your ship weapons did.

Bottom line; I see little reason to go easy when boarding a spacecraft.

Also, I agree with not using long blades.

>> No.29552849

>>29547913
>swords were shitty sub par weapons in ancient times too
please elaborate? i'm genuinely curious.

>> No.29552862

>>29552801

Have camouflage instead, much better for not getting shot in the first place.

>> No.29552877

>>29552843
Engagements between spacecraft are unlikely to see boarding actions, on the basis of the speed differences and how much damage you can do with ship-scale energy weapons.

If you're fighting inside a spacecraft, it's probably some kind of colony or generation ship, and everyone you're trying to kill is a permanent resident.

>> No.29552898

>>29552849
Like, real warriors(tm) used spears and bows. Sword is a last resort weapon in a battle (like a pistol today) or a weapon for civilian use.

>> No.29552904

>>29552849
Swords are decent man-to-man weapons, and long blades are usually quite versatile. But they take a lot of metal and time to make compared to spears, has a lot less reach and need a lot more training to be effective. You also need good armor so that they don't just kill you before you close to sword range with their polearm.

>> No.29552912

>>29552849
not shitty, but they require skill to use, have a short reach and are pretty expensive and become much less effective against armour.
Spears and polearms were better weapons.

>> No.29552953

>>29552898

A sword wasn't even really that. They were primarily used by the nobility to threaten each other with. Your average civilian would have had a dagger or maybe some kind of hatchet or hammer.

>> No.29552980

>>29549930
>How about Star Wars? Blades that deflect lasers and pre-cognitives to wield them.

I never understood this.

If I can deflect a laser blast with a laser sword, then I can deflect a laser blast with a laser blast.

There's really zero reason for Jedi to use lightsabers.

>> No.29552997

>>29552980
using a sword to deflect lasers is slightly more sensible than using a laser, to shoot incoming lasers away.

>> No.29553000

>>29552980
Lightsabers are not lasers. They collide like solid things when fighting, for example.

>> No.29553018

>>29544185
In my setting personal armors are surrounded by an enwrgy field that can be bypassed by a similoar field. Generators of said shield are very expensive and too large for bullets to be made out of them. While guns can still overcharge the shield a sword is way quicker.

>> No.29553024

>>29552980
Also blaster shots are not lasers too. They travel much slower than light.

>> No.29553026

>>29552997
If your senses are fast enough that you can swing a sword and deflect a blast, your senses are fast enough to shoot at a blast and deflect it that way.

It'd just be easier to use a laser gun to deflect the laser blasts because you don't have the physically swing it around to block like you do with a laser sword.

>> No.29553034

>>29553000
Lasers also collide with solid things.

If you shoot a laser gun at a wall, the laser collides with the wall. It doesn't just pass through the wall.

>> No.29553036

>>29553018
Basycally, EVA

>> No.29553071

Space warping technology could seriously mess up ranged weapons too. For example a 'barrier' that basically smears your projectile or beam across a hundred meter radius with a spatial lens.

>> No.29553077

>>29553034
I didn't say "with" I said "like". Two lightsabers stop each other when fencing. Laser rays pass through each other.

>> No.29553100

>>29553077
SW Blasters and Lightsabers are plasma weapons anyway. Superheated gas in a containment field.

>> No.29553105

>>29553077
Nah, a laser hitting a laser isn't going to just pass through. Why would they when they collide with everything else, including laser swords? That shit is gonna clash.

>> No.29553112

>>29553071
And what, pray, happens when a person tries to jump through this barrier to get to melee range?

>> No.29553115

>>29553100
So just use a plasma gun.

>> No.29553124

Bullets are expensive and rare?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEFvP7njymk

>> No.29553134

>>29552980
A lightsaber is plasma contained by a magnetic field.

>> No.29553135

>>29553124
A small bit of metal is expensive and rare, but large sticks of metal are common as fuck?

That's retarded.

>> No.29553154

>>29553134
Plasma guns.

>> No.29553169

>>29544185
In MGS and MGR basically cybernetics improved way more than firearms and you now have dudes that can dodge bullets easily, so you need to attack them with objects as fast as them, ergo, another dude with cybernetics.

>> No.29553176

>>29553154
Blasters shoot plasma, they do not deflect each others bolts.

>> No.29553184

>>29553176
Says who?

>> No.29553194

>>29553176
>plasma coming out of a sword deflects, but plasma coming out of a gun doesn't, because

>> No.29553207

>>29553154
On the tech scale laser is low tech, then goes plasma in stationary container (lightsaber) and plasmagun is the highest tech. So they invented lightsabers but didn't invent plasmaguns yet.

>> No.29553209

>>29551980
>Nanomachines in guns
That doesn't make them hit harder and faster, anon.

>> No.29553216

>>29553207
Except they have guns that shoot plasma in Star Wars.

>> No.29553220

>>29553194
That's because plasma swords have a electromagnetic field to maintain the shape of a sword. It's the field what deflects, not the plasma.

>> No.29553227

>>29553207
'Turbolasers' are plasma cannons, blasters are plasma guns.

>> No.29553254

>>29552552
>2. The material for making body-armor breaking weapons is so expensive that its only practical to construct melee weapons with it.
The problem with that is that a bullet takes a tiny tiny fraction of the material of a sword
and if it is super expensive the material can be reused for more bullets afterwards.

>> No.29553256

>>29553220
>plasma swords have a electromagnetic field to maintain the shape of a sword

We're talking about lightsabers. Lightsabers do not have an electromagnetic field.

If plasma swords need an electromagnetic field to maintain the shape of a sword, plasma bolts need an electromagnetic field to maintain the shape of a bolt.

>> No.29553276

>>29553256
That is how a lightsaber works, its a magnetic field containing plasma.

>> No.29553310

>>29553256
You clearly don't know how a lightsaber works, now, go read one of those SW visual enciclopedias.

>> No.29553311

>>29553254
The material needs to be attached to a particular power source. The power source is too big to be lugged around and if you shoot it at people you'll probably wreck the power source.

>> No.29553314

>>29549930
The only options are:
"Guns aren't viable, because of plot"
Or
"Magic and/or Nanomachines make melee combatants better than gunslingers"

Having a backup small blade like a knife or machete is one thing. Walking around with a two handed sword for a primary weapon requires intense amounts of bullshit to justify beyond "It's fucking cool"

>> No.29553322

>>29553276
George Lucas says it doesn't.
Because apparently that would make too much sense.

>> No.29553337

>>29553276
>>29553310
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lightsaber

The only reference to "magnetic" or "electromagnetic."

"When cutting through dense material, the immense electromagnetic field generated by the arc caused resistance rather than letting solid matter enter and interrupt the arc. This gave the blade a feeling of being solid when immersed in dense material. Rarely, some solid materials could actually pass through the electromagnetic field and short out the arc. Other electromagnetic energy fields and coherent energy were also repelled by lightsabers' arcs. These include most force fields, blaster bolts, and other lightsaber blades."

Lightsabers don't use magnetic/electromagnetic fields.

>> No.29553346

>>29553322
>The weapon consisted of a blade of pure plasma emitted from the hilt and suspended in a force containment field.

Mmm. Strange, because I have official books, not EU, that say it does.

>> No.29553353

>>29553256
They don't actually need to contain the shape of a bolt, they are using momentum to propel it.

And besides, a gun that creates and maintains an electromagnetic field for a bolt is even more absurd than a sword that does the same thing, and you know it.

>> No.29553356

>>29553346
Which book? Can you quote page numbers?

>> No.29553361

>>29553169
It's also huge tech asymmetry -- they don't have hand-held sabot weapons or the like to defeat cyborgs, but they have swords that, by their definition, break down matter

>> No.29553362

>>29553311
oho, that IS a neat idea.
Still would be useful as a polearm, spear, or hammer.
And you could have a spiked chain

Assuming of course capacitors can't do this for thinks like bullets or arrows because its power consumption is way too high and the power source is some fantasy thing that generates massive amounts of power.

>> No.29553368

>>29553314
Metal Gear Rising basically went that way. Against people who went full cyborg conventional guns are borderline useless, but the vastly increased strength allows them to damage each other in hand-to-hand combat fairly reliably. Add to that pseudo-magic high-frequency modifications made to bladed weapons that effectively make them super sharp and there you go.

>> No.29553374

>>29553346
I don't read electromagnetic or magnetic there.

>> No.29553380

>>29553169
except couldn't another cybernetic dude still hit them with bullets for the same reason as the sword? They weren't actually Faster Than a Speeding Bullet, they were just faster than chump humans' ability to aim said bullets, right?

>> No.29553385

>>29553322
Don't worry Lucas has exactly no say in the matter anymore.
The Mouse is in charge of creating the new canon, which they are doing right now.

>> No.29553390

>>29553362
>Still would be useful as a polearm, spear, or hammer. And you could have a spiked chain
As long as it's melee.

>> No.29553398

>>29553368
But then you create a situation where you're either a full cyborg/Jedi and everyone is using swords, or you're dead. You couldn't have a party of mixed Jedi and smugglers. It just wouldn't work.

>> No.29553406

>>29553380
>Guy is faster than bullets
>Ergo guy faster than bullets shooting bullets makes them fast
Are you an Ork?
Are you implying Usain Bolt can shot faster bullets than normal humans because he's faster than normal humans? because that sounds dumb.

>> No.29553408

>>29553353
It's no more absurd than batting away lasers like it's space baseball.

>> No.29553437

>>29553406
Are you deliberately not paying attention? A human cannot shoot down a missile even if he has a gun that shoots bullets fast enough because he cannot perceive and react fast enough, that is why computers handle missile defence. The missile is not too fast to be shot, its too fast to be shot by a normal human.

>> No.29553442

>>29553380
Bullets can't hurt them because they are made out of anime-metal.

The swords have some kind of high-frequency vibration action thrown in for added justification.

>> No.29553443

>>29553385
And that's better... how?

>> No.29553449

>>29553437
>A human cannot shoot down a missile even if he has a gun that shoots bullets fast enough because he cannot perceive and react fast enough

Except Jedi (or whatever you call your space wizards) and cyborgs.

>> No.29553450

>>29553437
>A missile is not too fast to be shot
Sorry to break your bubble, but usually missiles are way faster than bullets.

>> No.29553451

>>29553406
What if a bullet shoots a bullet?

>> No.29553461

>>29553451
Do that multiple times and you can reach C speed.

>> No.29553467

>>29553451
Oh shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

>> No.29553473

>>29553450
No, they aren't, moron.

>> No.29553484

>>29553437
Are you deliberately not paying attention? In MGS firearms didn't improved like at all, there aren't "faster bullets", everybody went into cybernetics and that's why your cyborg ninjas laugh at your AK-47.

>> No.29553490

>>29553451
The Matrix.

>> No.29553493

>>29553450
Err, so? They generally also have a fairly big radar footprint and fly in a predictable path, so it's entirely possible to just calculate their course and fill part of it with lead at the appropriate time.

>> No.29553495

>>29553484
>What are railguns?
Retard

>> No.29553498

>>29549695
I was going to say Mass Effect too. But also am wondering if you could have a setting on your guns to switch to "slowmode" in order to bypass shields.

>> No.29553501

>>29553450
This is a CIWS
It' shoots missiles, and everything else within one nautical mile of a ship, with bullets.

You see, the thing about missiles is, they are aimed AT YOU. You don't have to be faster than them per-say, just fast enough to hit them at a range that isn't point blank.

>> No.29553516

>>29553493
Well, try calculate the course of a fucking cyborg ninja that even if you shoot at him he can parry all that shit with his HF blade.

MGS isn't the real world, it's like a couple of dudes develop magic and then teach them to everybody making conventional weapons stupid, and then people like you start complaining "why conventional weapons are stupid? this makes no sense"...because cybernetics!.

>> No.29553521

>>29553473
Depends a lot on the missile. Some of them (especially of the AA variety) can reach velocities past 1000m/s, which is faster than most common rifle calibers.

>> No.29553524

>>29553495
Weapons that take a fucking minute to reload.

>> No.29553530

A Jedi with a lightsaber frantically swings his spaceball bat around trying to block every shot while a Jedi with a blaster is a smooth motherfucker who pulls Matrix shit on the stormtrooper or Sith.

There's zero reason to ever have a lightsaber in Star Wars. Hopefully, Disney puts them in the trash where they belong.

>> No.29553544

>>29553501
Missiles are "dumb" they don't dodge, parry or whatever, cyborgs do.

So if you give a firearm to a cyborg to fight another cyborg he will run out of bullets before damaging his enemy and then draw his knife and to be more effective.

>> No.29553547

>>29553484
You are still missing the point. Humans cannot shoot cyborgs because they move too quickly to target, if you had the reaction times of a cyborg you could use a gun to shoot them.

>> No.29553554

>>29553530
I still wonder why in the Star Wars universe nobody has adopted good old buckshot or really just any solid-metal projectile weapon as a dedicated anti-jedi deal. So what if they manage to parry it, the sword won't negate the projectile's momentum and now they have high-velocity lead vapor coming at their face.

>> No.29553566

>>29553530

>> No.29553577

>>29553530
Then it's not star wars anymore. Because star wars is knights and princesses and evil black lords in spaaaace

>> No.29553579

>>29553554
That is like asking why nobody in real life carries silver bullets in case they see a werewolf, its only slightly more likely you will run into a jedi while bullets are easy to armour against in Star Wars.

>> No.29553580

>>29553544
>>29553516
Pretty sure nobody who replied to that post cared about cyborgs, they just wanted to correct the idea that couldn't be intercepted solely because of their speed.

>> No.29553589

>>29553547
This.

>> No.29553590

>>29553554
If you mean physical buckshot, a Jedi/Sith would just cast Force Push on it and knock it back in your face.

Laser/plasma buckshot probably exists but doesn't get used because plot.

>> No.29553592

For those morons who didn't even bother to read shit about jedi.

Lightsaber is a defensive weapon, jedi use them because they're diplomats, the main goal is to deflect blasters, not to cut people. Jedi are "peaceful" that's why they don't go full blaster cannons even when it's more "effective" when you have precognition and reflexes way above human peak.

Fucking tradition and principles.

>> No.29553614

>>29553579
That would depend on the era and still wouldn't explain why a Jedi hunter or someone tasked to kill a Jedi wouldn't have weapons that work on them.

>> No.29553621

>>29553544
Have you lived under a rock? Yes missiles dodge and do other cool tricks like acting cooperatively in a group.

>> No.29553631

>>29553554
>>29553579
You do run into magnetic shielding much more often, though, like in the compactor room and stuff. An underslung masterkey shogun attachment would look pretty good about then, wouldn't it?

>> No.29553632

>>29553614
Jedi hunters use traps, poisons, missiles and starships.

>> No.29553649

>>29553621
Like parry and go full zandatsu?
Shit, yes, I been living in a rock.

>> No.29553669

>>29553632
>poison
These guys breathe nerve gas and fart sarin out afterwards.
The rest is pretty good, though, as HK-47 has said.

>> No.29553704

>>29553592
>diplomatic weapon
>zero way to pull punches with it

With a normal sword, you can hit people with the flat of the blade. With a laser gun, they have stun settings.

Lightsabers cut arms off and chops people in half. They are not defensive weapons. They are sticks of death.

>be me
>be young
>be dumb and full of cum
>in a cantina with my dipshit friend
>a little drunk
>see some dumb kid
>decide it's time to prove myself to my bud
>talk smack
>HOLY SHIT GRANDPA JUST AMPUTATED MY ARM WHAT THE DICK
>forced to live the rest of my life handicapped thanks to a "defensive weapon"

PS. Why would a Jedi even need a lightsaber if they have the Force? You didn't see Yoda swining around a laser dick oh wait the prequels.

>> No.29553708

>>29553669
The poison is not to kill them, dude, is just to make them focus his force powers on fighting it.

>> No.29553736

>>29553704
They had normal swords back in the time.
Blasters totally destroyed them.

>> No.29553738

>>29553577
Star Wars is starship battles and Han Solos.

The Jedi bullshit has dragged the series down since forever and needs to be scrapped entirely.

>> No.29553739

>>29553704
Well, for what it's worth Jedi do train extensively to master techniques focused on hitting only the opponent's weapon or hands, resorting to killing blows in emergencies. But yeah, mostly the are a bunch of hypocrites hiding behind their old tradition.

>> No.29553746

>cyborgs can dodge/parry/block bullets
There is always a faster bullet.

>> No.29553765

>>29553736
Vibroswords and weapons still exist in Star Wars and they can be used to do nonlethal damage. Lightsabers can't do nonlethal damage.

>> No.29553779

>>29553765
Yes they can, did you see that shapeshifter lady? she was still alive after Obi cut her arm, therefore, non-lethal.

>> No.29553781

>>29553738
I would actually enjoy that quite a lot. Just set a prequel sometime in the mandalorian wars or whatever, ignore the Jedi, and blow the CGI budget on pretty spacefights.

>> No.29553798

>>29553781
Thanks to EU mandalorian wars had jedi everywhere, even in both sides, yeah, that's dumb as fuck.

>> No.29553804

>>29553746
Those aren't particularly fast, though. They clock in at about ~350 m/s, wheras most assault rifles manage something in the neighbourhood of 900 m/s

>> No.29553840

>>29553738
Do everyone a favor and go watch Firefly instead.
Han wasn't even the best rogue in the movies, Lando was.

>> No.29553857

>>29553779
You're right, the settings for a lightsaber are "murder the motherfucker" and "handicap the motherfucker for the rest of his miserable life."

What kind, gentle Jedi.

A real peacekeeper is going to use a weapon that incapacitates. If Jedis gave a shit about other people, they'd use stun batons (which exist in the setting). Fuck, even the droids in the prequels used those. Droids literally cared more about people than Jedis.

>> No.29553873

>>29544185
Well if you're a master swordsman capable of using Ki/Chi to augment your abilities to superhuman and reflexes to the point that you can predict the bullets trajectory and move before the shot is made (Mind's Eye and so one) and your opponents are cyborg master martial artists capable of dodging bullets, i guess using guns isn't something that will be all that useful for you unless you're going against a bunch of grunts, right?

>> No.29553880

>>29553857
If you stopped being a jackass who hated Jedi for no reason you would realise how trivially easy it would be to give someone a very very mild burn with a lightsaber. And the main point of a lightsaber is to deflect blaster bolts and cut through machines and doors not chop people.

>> No.29553888

>>29553781
The direction Star Wars is going is that the focus is going to be Rebellion Era, but with tons of Jedi/Sith bullshit because they're going to sneak in all these Jedis that survived Order 66 (like Ahsoka Tano).

There will never be another smooth operator smuggler like Han Solo. There will never be another interesting Star Wars character that doesn't have a laser dildo strapped on and space magic.

>> No.29553890

>>29553857
Hell, if Jedis gave a shit around people they'd maybe try to do something about the rampant slavery and lawlessness in the rim territories or maybe campaign for AI rights. But no, they're very comfortable sitting in their cushy temples and preaching their impossible religion to children.

>> No.29553902

>>29553880
But that never happens in the films.

When a lightsaber is out, someone always winds up either handicapped for life or murdered (or in the case of Darth Maul, both). You never really see anyone slightly singed by a lightsaber.

And I'm being nice to the Jedi and not getting into the baby kidnapping bullshit they pulled prior to the Empire.

>> No.29553911

>>29553888
Aw damn, why do they always take the boring Jedi to top it off.

See this guy? I wanna see more about what adventures this dude and his ridiculous neck are going on, ideally including all those times where he uses his head like a flail to knock a motherfucker out.

>> No.29553918

>>29553804
Looks like you are right, I got the projectile speeds for the SPIW mixed up:
It was the solid projectile that was clocked at up to 4400fps.

>> No.29553922

>>29553902
>murder

Stop using that word when it does not apply.

This is all besides the point anyway, without a lightsaber most jedi would be unable to defend themselves against people with guns.

>> No.29553927

>>29553880
Lies. Only lies. Lightsabers are meant with the inherent design to maim and chop people. Or rather, those filthy xenos.
I mean, really, you have a lightsaber. Someone is trying to kill you. What do? You chop them in fucking half, that's what. You are a space weeaboo fightan sorceror.

>> No.29553946

>>29553927
More to the point, when a guy is trying to kill you, a mild burn probably isn't going to slow him down any. Since there's no physical force involved, the only effects a lightsaber has to subdue an agressor are pain and cutting shit off, and the former is usually covered by adrenaline.

>> No.29553949

>>29553922
>without a lightsaber most jedi would be unable to defend themselves against people with guns.

Except they could use the Force.

>guy pulls out gun
>jedi uses the force to whip the gun away, or fling something at the dude to disarm him, or flip the dude, or push the dude away, or create a barrier to deflect the blasts, or persuade him not to fight, or force speed and run away, or
>nah, fuck it, it's more fun to mow living beings down with a fucking laser stick of death

>> No.29553963

>>29553902
>In case of Darth Maul, both
I have bad news for you, and it's canon.

>> No.29553968

>>29553922
Hell, they could just use staves made out of cortosis or something. Resistant to blaster fire, effective against sith sabers, and perfectly viable to trip, stun and otherwise nonlethally subdue an attacker.

>> No.29553983

>>29553963
Yes, that's what I was referring to when I said he was both killed and handicapped.

>> No.29553987

>>29553949
>All jedi are Anakin, Obiwan, Joda and Mace who can do all kinds of shit with the Force
Most jedi are pretty useless, look Coleman Trebor for example, and he was a council member.

>> No.29553988

>>29553963
Jesus christ, Star Wars is worse than comic books when it comes to letting people stay dead.

>> No.29553997

>>29553988
>Without his better half
>Falls a fucking mile into the energy core
>"I'm alive, guys!"

>> No.29554013

>>29553987
Maybe, instead of training to use laser kill swords, the Jedi should, oh, I dunno, actually train to use their powers to end conflicts non-violently.

Instead, they give kindergartners (or "younglings") classes on lightsaber fighting. Fucking babies are swinging those murder sticks around.

>> No.29554024

>>29554013
Training sabers can't cut, they only cause minor burns.

>> No.29554030

>>29554013
Not to mention most of those younglings were forcibly taken from their parents and removed from their homes.

>> No.29554039

>>29554030
Republic law even allows them to kill the parents if they resist.

>> No.29554041

>>29554024
That doesn't change the fact that, instead of being taught to use their powers to end conflicts non-violently, they're trained, even at a young age, to use violence.

>> No.29554051

>>29554041
They don't have enough mindy cloruros to use the Force in an effective way.

Only Yoga, Anna kin, Bobbi One and Mace McAxe can do it.

>> No.29554078

>>29554051
Midichlorians don't give people Force powers, and every Jedi is capable of things like Force Persuade, except they're not trained to do the non-violent shit, they're trained to maim and murder.

>> No.29554098

>>29554051
Even if that were the case (and it's not), the Jedi could just use those electrostaffs that stun people or stun batons. Those can even be used to deflect blaster bolts.

>> No.29554105

>>29554098
Those are ineffective against droids.

>> No.29554130

How about a Jedi that has a electro stuff for living creatures and a lightsaber for droids?

>> No.29554146

>>29554105
No, they aren't. That one Jedi in the first Clone Wars cartoon held off a bunch of droids with only an electrostaff. The electricity causes them to short circuit.

Also doesn't explain why they use lightsabers on humans.

>> No.29554166

>>29554130
>B-but that sword if for droids!

>> No.29554186

>>29554166
>"Why'd you decapitate that man in plain view of his son when you had him helpless and could have taken him as a prisoner, Mace?"
>"Oh, I thought he was a droid."

>> No.29554208

>>29554186
I think in the jedi combat style the old head cut is generally reserved for foes who either can't be subdued any other way (plainly not the case for Fett) or are considered just too dangerous to let live.

So yeah, the Jedi explicitly consider themselves having the judgement/authority to deem people unfit for living.

>> No.29554227

>>29554208
I like that the "peaceful diplomats" are allowed to use their "defensive weapon" to play judge, jury, and executioner on people they've just met, especially when that guy has been disarmed.

>> No.29554286

>>29554227
>shit is getting crazy in the arena
>a monster is charging people, jedi and droids alike
>jango fett jumps down
>handles the monster
>turns to see a jedi charging at them, deathstick blazing with furious murderous rage
>in a panic, he takes some shots at the jedi
>these obviously pose no threat to a trained assassin like a jedi
>jedi takes a swing and destroys jango's gun
>"alright, you've got me, i give..."
>with another swing, the stone-cold jedi decapitates the jedi
>the head rolls over to the man's now orphaned son
>the jedi, despite being connected to everyone and everything in the universe through the force, feels absolutely nothing
>that's the jedi way, because emotions get in the way of the slaughter

>> No.29554317

>>29554286
>walking down the space street
>see a space beggar
>he's hungry, hasn't eaten a decent space meal in space days
>go to give him a couple of space bucks
>WOOM WOOM WOOSH
>hand chopped off by a fiery deathstick
>jedi tells me "compassion leads to hate, hate leads to suffering"
>"th-th-th-thank you, my j-j-jedi overlord"
>lose my job because i can't perform with one hand
>become homeless
>become hungry
>the cycle continues

>> No.29554521

>>29553857
>Waaah, the fucking warrior monk is mad that I tried to kill him so he chopped off m'arm! What a dick!

The real question here is why you would pick a fight with a jedi at all.

>> No.29554627

Why's everyone so stuck up on swords for their anachronistic weapon of choice?
You can have a shield instead! I'm sure I don't even have to mention the modern riot and ballistic shields - add a little bit of sci-fi or projected technologies, and you can potentially have something incredibly badass. Strapped to a basic exoskeleton (or otherwise utilized with some genetic or cybernetic strength enhancements), immune to small arms fire, resistant to explosive pressure waves, a stable weapon platform, microwave radiation emitters as a deterrent. Hell, strap a directional anti-personnel mine on it.
As an additional benefit - easily discarded.

>> No.29554681

Shouldn't discussing futuristic close quarters combat scenarios in general be more productive?

>> No.29554747

>>29554627
>shield
>Strapped to a basic exoskeleton (or otherwise utilized with some genetic or cybernetic strength enhancements)
strap a directional anti-personnel mine on it.
You rang?

>> No.29554775

>>29554286
>>29554317
That's how Force works in SW, either you're a souless killing machine or a lolrandumevil douche.

>> No.29554817

>>29554775
No, that's how Lucas wants the force to work.

EU has a lot of shit, but also has a lot of nice things, like other force users and other force philosophies.

>> No.29554845

>>29554317
>What are prothetics?

>> No.29554868

>>29554747
Sure, why not. Only ditch those clumsy cleavers and get a machine gun, grenade launcher or a flamethrower. You'll be fucking invincible.

>> No.29554920

>>29554186
What do you expect of a Jedi who studied Dark Side MMAs?

>> No.29554958

>>29554627
In EU there's a group of force users that use energy shields as their only weapon.
And a group that uses poleaxes.
And a group that uses fists and martial arts.
And a group that uses blasters.
Etc

>> No.29554973

>>29554627
Then again, most of the time when you have a material good enough to make a viable shield out of it, you might just as well make regular armor out of it.

>> No.29555079

>>29554627
Shields do have some advantages to be sure, but the same limitations of armor applies. Can it resist an era appropriate personal weapon? Is it portable enough?

Shields mainly phased out of use in history as armor got better, and the freed hand was better off using a sword or spear with both hands. Shields were also a bit of a hindrance against a well armored opponent as it's a big, non bladed grab point.

Against firearms, except for your accuracy(always fire with your gun in both hands if you want to hit anything), shields are pretty good if the projectile or beam can't bust clean through.That'd take some thick insulating substance of great thickness and strength.

>> No.29555112

>>29554078
Sorry but EP1 pretty much stated that Moldy Crayons meassure who powerful and tunned with the Fursh you are.

>> No.29555137

>Yoda saying to Anakin one shouldn't stop what's going to happen
>"The sith, we must stop"
Hypocrite.

>> No.29555163

>>29554973
Not exactly. You can make a shield, a massive thick sheet of metal or some advanced material, that would be able to protect you and your comrades - but body armor of the same material and structure would be too unwieldy and cumbersome, most likely unable to protect anything but the torso.

>> No.29555212

>>29555137
Remember, ONLY a sith deals in absolutes.

>> No.29555382

>>29555137
Dude, Lucas wrote that shit, what did you expect?

>> No.29555479

>>29555382
It always astounds me just how shit Lucas is at editing. The basic rule of thum in filmmaking is that every scene should have a point: It should either further the plot, provide some characterisation, give exposition or evoke a certain emotion/reaction in the viewer. But in the "reworked" cuts you have so many goddamn scenes that do exactly fuck all. For example, in EP 1 he specifically added a wide shot of one of those 8 armed guys selling food during the race, completely out of the blue and with absolutely nothing coming out of it. That goes through the entire new trilogy. You could probably cut a third of that shit away without losing anything of import.

>> No.29556260

>>29550493
And historically the existence of crossbows and javelins have not invalidated the use of swords and spears as weapons.

>> No.29556301

>>29554013
From what I remember those classes were on blaster bolt deflection.

Considering you're not armed with a blaster, knowing how to use your one self-defense weapon to not be shot in the face by the blasters everyone else carries is important.

Most Jedi don't redirect blaster bolts at people (unless they're fighting droids in an actual war).

>> No.29556345

>>29553890
>Hell, if Jedis gave a shit around people they'd maybe try to do something about the rampant slavery and lawlessness in the rim territories or maybe campaign for AI rights. But no, they're very comfortable sitting in their cushy temples and preaching their impossible religion to children.
You realize this was the point of the Prequell trilogy, right? That the Jedi Order was ass-backwards, completely out-of-touch with the real problems in the galaxy, and generally corrupt?

There's a reason the Jedi Obi-Wan described to Luke were his ideal version of what a Jedi should be (wandering guardians of peace and justice) and not what his contemporaries actually were.

You'll note that Luke's Jedi Order does not abduct children.

>> No.29556635

>>29544185
Bullets are bad in space, since you don't want to rupture the vessel and expose it to the vacuum.

>> No.29556697

>>29553873
Unless you are a gun adept. But then you can only use revolvers because of rule of cool.

>> No.29556849

Well, I'm throwing in my two cents.
I was designing a space-opera setting, and decided to have there be a period of history in which melee made a resurgence. So, first I introduced high-efficiency energy shields capable of resisting bullets and energy weapons. They were not totally perfect; however, killing someone using the standard small-arms of the time required that the enemy obligingly stood still while you pumped shot after shot into a single section of the shield. Anti-tank weapons could penetrate, but those were all bulky, heavy, had limited ammunition, had a very low rate of fire, and in the case of guided munitions, had difficulty locking onto a human-sized target. Even after the weapons were redesigned for this new role, these problems remained.
So a weapon was devised that could penetrate shields easily, by creating a destructive interference pattern that would collapse it. However, these weapons required a large power source that could not be miniaturized into a bullet or even rocket. Therefore, the design bureau settled for using it as a melee weapon, powered by a battery backpack. These weapons quickly became known as 'tuning forks' for their distinctive shape, and and gave soldiers a weapon that, while short ranged, did not need fifteen seconds to recharge and weighed a hundred pounds.

>> No.29557191

>>29553398
Not necessarily. Snake in his prime with a muscle suit like Sam has would have stomped all over everyone else in MGR like they were fucking insects.

>> No.29557210

>>29557191
Nope.
Snake is a master in stealth, but not that good in punching and cutting everybody into oblivion, also he can't into katanas.

>> No.29557225

>>29557191
Dude, Twin Snakes scenes aren't canon, Snake isn't that good in CQC.

>> No.29557244

>>29557210
He's pretty much the greatest soldier ever. He uses stealth in the games because he's vastly outnumbered, and he's still a fleshy mortal. But he's insanely skilled, and he's got a great mind for tactics, and he's great at all forms of combat. Sure, he couldn't fist-fight them all to death, but he's far more skilled than they'll ever be, and the muscle suit would give him the speed he needed to keep up so his tactics would actually work.

>> No.29557330

>>29557244
He would be awesome with the muscle suit, but still Sam will be better at swordfighting by a lot. That's just a field where Snake never was comfortable with.

>> No.29557396

>>29557330
This.
Snake is one of the best soldiers ever, he's great with tactics, stealth and firearms, but with swords, acrobatics and flashy combats? not so much.

If he was involved in MGR he'd throw the sword, pick up a box, an rpg and a tranquillizer gun and proceed to slowly beat every guy withoug being noticed.

>> No.29557415

>>29557330
Oh, yeah, for sure. Sam would thrash him if they got in a sword fight, but do you really think Snake would be the kind to let himself get involved in a sword fight like that? I suppose I was being a bit dramatic, and that probably made it seem like I meant "He'd beat them all in a fistfight cause he's the bestest forever", but I just meant that his skill and ability would allow him to overcome them through more unconventional methods.

>> No.29557498

>>29557396
>10 minutes to move 10 ft
>Tranq a guy
>Hide him inside a dumpster
>RULES OF NATURE!
>Set a trap with a playboy magazine
>Knock out a guy
>Check his pockets
>STANDING HERE!

I don't know why I found that disparity between theme music and the action so funny.

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