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29520467 No.29520467 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

So /tg/ I've lately been trying to bastardize Mage: The Awakening so that it can be used as a base for a Jojo's Bizarre Adventure game. My idea was that the simple mechanics and division of the Arcana could make Stands very simple mechanically for the players. This has mostly worked out so far by eliminating some mechanics of the game (Wisdom, Paradox) and renaming others (Arcana have become Hamon, Mana has become Breath, and Gnosis has become Stand Power). The thing is though, that I'm running into a few problems with merging the two systems, and I'm going to have to write a few things in myself, which I'd like some help with if you could.

For instance, the Arcana of Prime and Spirit don't have much use in the Jojo setting, as Stands now take the place of magic, and spirits don't quite exist. Rotes also don't fit with the setting, and are too linear for the open-ended uses of the player's Stands. My idea for Gnosis (as I've renamed it, Stand Power) was to represent the power of the Stand's manifestation; essentially as a stat for "roll for ORAORAORA," but it makes them seem too weak at low levels. There are several other issues, but those can be addressed later.

I'm trying to write this into a action-packed adventure where the players feel like incredibly wacky badasses, but this isn't quite what MtAw was designed for, and this seems to be my main impediment.

>> No.29520522
File: 491 KB, 1920x1080, JoJo's Bizzare adventure.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
29520522

>we JoJo now

>> No.29520557

I know some people who are running JoJo in MnM, but I haven't played MnM or read JoJo so I can't really help you there.

Good luck anyway.

>> No.29520594

>>29520467
>I'm trying to write this into a action-packed adventure where the players feel like incredibly wacky badasses, but this isn't quite what MtAw was designed for, and this seems to be my main impediment.

I don't know jack shit about the lore of Jojo's Bizarre Adventure or the mechanics of Mage: The Awakening.

Good luck though.

>> No.29520613

>>29520467
>Jojo's Bizarre Adventure

what is this? besides the thing that wryyyyy! came from.

>> No.29520634

>>29520467
>I'm trying to write this into a action-packed adventure where the players feel like incredibly wacky badasses

playing online or IRL?

>> No.29520678

>>29520613
"What" it is really depends on what Part (out of 8) we're talking about, as they're all mostly separate stories with different protagonists. Though the best summary I've ever heard was, "Stone-faced, musclebound fasionistos bringing each other to brutal and violent ends."

>>29520634
We'll try to play IRL as much as possible, but it's easier for all of us to play online.

>> No.29520686

>>29520467
Don't use Gnosis (Stand Power) as a stat to "roll for x", or else give it a much smaller band of potential values than the default WW 1-5 (6-10 for really cool guys who aren't you).

>> No.29520756

>>29520686
This falls into my main issue in that I just have no idea what use most of the stats would be to the players, or what they would actually be in-setting.

My idea for using Gnosis as the "roll for ORAORAORA" stat was that a player could have a Star Platinum-like stand that has little in the way of special abilities, but can still be competent through its physical strength. Maybe I would be better off making that into one of the Arcana?

>> No.29520829
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29520829

>>29520467
While WoD is a good system that makes narrative crunchy enough for a lot of folks, I feel like JoJo is a lot more narrativist in nature. It doesn't help that powers tend to range from the painfully bland at first glance, to the inexplicably specific. Maybe look into something like FATE, Monsters and Other Childish Things, or something like that.

Reminds me that I need to get the good ol' Super Stand Sunday threads going again.

>> No.29520875

>>29520467
I don't think Mage: The Awakening is the right system to adapt here. As stated above, Mutants and Masterminds is a good, flexible system that can handle the wide variety of JoJo powers much better. BESM is also a great system, 3rd edition being quite awesome and having a similarly large list of special powers and abilities to choose from.

If you're into White Wolf's d10 pool for mechanics, may I humbly recommend Scion:Hero and Exalted? They both ratchet the badass level up pretty high while still having players be 'technically mortal, but really hard to kill except by other powerful entities', whereas in Mage you can just shoot a Mage in the face with a gun and call it a day. Scion: Demigod starts to get a little too powerful, even for JoJo, and Scion: God literally forces your characters to power down if they want to step foot in realty anymore, so... Hero is your best bet. Also, higher XP Exalted starts to get crazy powerful, and that's coming from a game where starting characters could theoretically fire a hundred arrows as a single action.

>> No.29520886

>>29520829
Those two would probably be the best. If you could hack Apocalypse or Dungeon world or even Legends of the Wulin, it might turn out better. Otherwise, it's superhero (or superhero compatible) systems or bust.

>> No.29520933

>>29520829
I just like how simple the system is at its core. Add numbers together, roll that many dice.

I only need to get the system to work for my players, as enemies won't work the same way that they do. Behind the curtain, enemy Stand users will only really be a series of puzzles or stat challenges with a personality, rather than actually being characters like the players are.

>>29520875
>>29520886
I think I'd like to work this one out to the bitter end. If only because we already wrote out character sheets and getting my players together again for that would require an act of god[/spoilers]

>> No.29521015
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29521015

>>29520933
Fair enough. I suppose trying to retool WoD for something that can be as varied - no, HAS to be as varied - as JoJo may make it into a very very long project. That said, godspeed anon and we had best get storytimes about it!

>> No.29521052

>>29520933
Well, You might want to take a look at Geist, maybe you can change a bunch of things there and It might work.

>> No.29521120
File: 210 KB, 500x500, jotaro.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
29521120

>>29520875
A more personal reply for you, sir.

I've looked into Scion, and the powers seem rather restrictive, especially at Hero level. Mostly focused on reenacting myths and so on. And from what I've heard from Exalted General, Exalted is "stupidly complex," which isn't a welcoming sign.

I'm working with Mage because I can give the players a single Arcana and say "go nuts" while they use it in whatever wacky means that they so desire.

>>29521015
Here's the thing with it being "varied," all of my players can work exactly the same way. None of my NPCs need to work like my players, because they'll all just be talking set-pieces. I'm not trying to make a functional system here; just afro-engineering something we can fool around with.

>>29521052
While Geists are vaguely like Stands, they're really closer in nature to Personas. In the end, I'd be doing the same thing (renaming mechanics and ignoring 100% of the lore) to end up with a power system that is too restrictive (Keys and Manifestations are compared to Arcana, at least).

>> No.29521180

>>29520933
If you've already finished the conversion and you've already made character sheets for all of your players, just go with it and tell us afterwards how awesome / lame / clusterfuck the game went. You clearly don't want to change the rules at this point, and if it works then that's great. Personally I think you'll have more fun with another system.

The rolling system for White Wolf is actually more like "Add two numbers, now modifiers, now other modifiers, then roll, then count the ones that say a certain number, subtracting other numbers sometimes if they show up on the dice, then compare that number with the difficulty you set, now see what happens, oh wait check if you need to reroll some dice or 10-again others or if you need to add or subtract a number of success and OH NO I'VE GONE CROSSEYED"

Compare that to, say, roll 1d20/2d10/3d6/whatever your system uses, add a single number, apply modifiers, compare to Difficulty, resolve. When you're gunning for quick action like in the JoJo universe, you need a dice resolution system that is just as fast. In addition, you need a system that both encourages and rewards creativity and fast-paced play. White Wolf can't do that for you. If you really want the d10 dicepool system, use Exalted or Scion.

>> No.29521289

>>29521180
Well, the issue is that I finished the character sheets before I've ironed out all of the kinks (which is what I'm trying to do now, really), so they may still need alterations.

And I don't think the d10 pool is as bad as you're describing. For us it'll be "add two numbers, roll the dice, if you get a success, you win, more successes are extra win."

>> No.29521339

>>29520829
>Super Stand

what is that?

>> No.29521363

>>29521339
It's the Sunday that is Super, not the Stand.

>> No.29521435

MtA is good, but you'll need to mix some Sin-Eater in there for the stands' personification.

>> No.29521445

>>29521120
>afro-engineering

what does that mean?

>> No.29521472
File: 79 KB, 500x290, 1386122166432.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
29521472

>>29521339
A bunch of threads me and some other folks here have been having every Sunday. Well, that was until the holiday season. Anyhoo, it's our attempt to figure out how to RPG-ify JoJo. Made a kit-bash of a homebrew system that has yet to be tested, but it at least looks good on paper. And we seem to agree that JoJo doesn't need much crunch. Just a looser system and a GM who can hold the shit together.

>> No.29521512

>>29521363

super meaning "various systems that deal with being 'superhero like in power and setting'. "
Right?

>> No.29521597

>>29521435
I'm letting the players dictate their Stands' appearances, with mixed results.

On one hand there is
>Sort of like a forge, but human-shaped, so he's made of cast iron and molten metal comes out of his mouth when he opens it (etc, etc)

And on the other hand
>Maybe he's like a hammer... made of dynamite.... oh god why are you making me do this.

Though I did take the liberty of naming all of their stands for them, just so there was a theme going on there.

>>29521445
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=afro%20engineering

C'mon, son.

>> No.29521654

>>29521289
If it works for you, that's great! I've just had a lot of experience running White Wolf (Scion in particular) and found that the dice pool system was slow. So slow, in fact, that I bought thirty dark d10 dice with white letters, darkened the 1-6 sides with a black marker, and colored the 10 side with a gold marker. It sped things up, well, so long as the players actually rolled in front of me. Math was not their strong suit.

Mages are fragile as hell, essentially as easily injured as mortals, unless they use an ability to mitigate, avoid, or recover from harm. In Scion it's easier to get more Health boxes, and in Exalted you can get them by the truckload with Ox Body. Just watch out for your players getting horribly mangled, alright?

Good luck. Seriously, the game sounds awesome and you have my support.

>> No.29521809

>>29521654
>unless they use an ability to mitigate, avoid, or recover from harm
Yeah, this would be where Stands come in. Working out this sort of thing was part of the reason I started the thread; making our own sort of rules and seeing if they were half balanced.

Anyway, back on topic, the idea I had was that if you could see a non-Stand-based threat coming, your Stand would reflexively block it. So if some idiot tries swinging a knife at you, you don't really have anything to be afraid of. Bullets are trickier, and those can only be auto-blocked if you can see the shooter and your Stand is fast enough. But how we determine how fast Stands are is another subject of discussion, and we end up back at my Stand Power idea.

>> No.29521974

>>29521597
>http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=afro%20engineering
>C'mon, son.

Oh ok. In my family we call it "garbage cobbling".

>> No.29521998

>>29521809
Why not make use of the Stand rating system already used in the series? It would make an effective basic stat system.

>Destructive Power
>Speed
>Range
>Durability
>Precision
>Developmental Potential

>> No.29522108

>>29521998
I considered it, but it would be difficult to balance. Particularly because the first seems so much more important than the rest. And that last one is really insane to quantify. Unless I gave them a shitload of EXP to start, and then never gave them any more than that, just to set them all to E for that stat.

Maybe a point-buy would work, but having this work out would require a better man than I.

>> No.29522109

>>29521998
May as well toss this up, if it may help you in some way.

>> No.29522318

>>29522108
Yeah, if you found a way to weight the stats it could work. The DP stat would just be a measure of how much bullshit you let the player get away with when using their powers. I'm thinking of One Piece and stuff like the power to push things that gets extended to allow vague concepts like 'pain' to be pushed out of the body. It would require a lot of GM judgements though so it's probably not be the best method.

>> No.29522432

>>29522109
This is so much better than what I'm trying to do here, good lord.

>>29522318
It's funny that you mention One Piece, since that's how I describe action in Jojo to people unfamiliar with it; taking a seemingly strange or useless ability (eg strings, bubbles, fingernails) and using it in increasingly ridiculous and complicated techniques.

>> No.29522725

>>29520467
I'm glad to see it looks like your getting good help OP.

>> No.29524631

Late post (surprised this is still around and not 404'd).

OP, have you considered taking a look at the Contracts from Changeling? They're more defined, but the effects are more interesting than Mage spells usually.

>> No.29524741

>>29520467
Use Geist the Sin-Eaters instead.


Really,just refluff the morbid powers to be Wacky Stands, use Synergy to represent how in control the PCs are with their Stands (Trim off the Spooky Death Sins for Jojo Protagonist Sins- e.g. Expressing cowardice, being tastelessly dressed, being a pushover, etc), and you're set

>> No.29524817

>>29524741
Tack on the Stunt rules from Exalted, too! +1 bonus die for describing action interestingly (gain 1 Plasm/Essence back on success) +2 using the local environment in an impressive way (Gain 1 WP and 2 Plasm/Essence back on success), +3 for make people at your table go "Whoa." (+2 WP back and +3 Essence)

>> No.29525105

>>29524631
I'm not overly familiar with changeling, but I may have a look.

>>29524741
The issue is that Manifestations and Rituals really don't match up with Stand powers, regardless of how it's fluffed.

I'm pretty won over by the /tg/ homebrew, though, I must say.

>> No.29525547

>>29520875
Exalted is bad for Stands. It's all tied into thematics of splats and while you could homebrew some, well, you'll be homebrewing everything from the ground-level of the basic ST system with nothing left from actual 'xalted.

>> No.29525665

>>29525547
So is BESM. If for no other reason than because it is a poor weeb's generic system without much merit.

>> No.29526736
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29526736

>>29522432
>This is so much better than what I'm trying to do here, good lord.

So then why don't you show it to your players and ask then if they would rather use it?

>> No.29529672

>>29520467
What does the chick from Zeonquest have to do with Jojo?

>> No.29529708
File: 108 KB, 506x700, 1389794403037.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
29529708

>>29520467

>spirits don't quite exist
>manga where there's ghost rooms through out a prison, with ghosts lounging around in them, talking animals, sentient stands that only other stand users can see etc...
>where the main villain of the series is a vampire who can summon undead
>spirit don't have much use
>spirits don't quite exist

What is this faggotry /tg/ and give me one good reason why I shouldn't slap it with my smiting hand?

>> No.29529744

>>29529708
Don't forget Reimi, who alerted Jojo and the gang to the fact there was a serial killer running around Duwang, and basically introduced a plot to Diamond is Unbreakable.

Also Kira's ghost-dad

>> No.29529781

>>29529708
Ghosts and related phenomena fall under the purview of "Death" in Mage. "Spirit" refers almost exclusively to semi-sentient animistic concepts spawned in the Shadow. Stands are more or less astral projections, and would probably fall under "Mind" if anything.

>> No.29529822

>>29520613

Part 1 is shonen victorian era vampire fighting manga that inspired castlevania and A LOT of other things.

Part 2 is indiana jones and the shonen vampire fighting temple of doom.

Part 3 is some how more of the same as part 2 despite the villain from part 1 showing up in the present day and Stands being introduced now.

Part 4 is Stands: The Standinganing, where the idea gets most thoroughly fleshed out.

Part 5 is Stands: Italiano, where the mangaka was clearly trying to find some fun in rehashing the formula he's now forced to write and draw about until he dies because it's that popular.

Part 6 is kickass as fuck, even though it's still Stands In Prison.

Part 7 is Stands Throughout the Multiverse, set in a completely different universe and introducing the immense power of ROTATION and golden ratios and stuff, which allows dimension hopping.

Part 8 is confusing because it's barely started, and everyone who has read it keeps saying "it's set in the same universe as part 7"... which is not helpful because part 7 HOPS BETWEEN UNIVERSES! It's like saying "oh, this story is set in the sliders universe" or "the same time period as doctor who".

>> No.29529827

>>29529781
What would userless Stands like Notorious B.I.G. and Silver Chariot Requiem fall under?

Not to mention Automatic Stands that function without the wielder's input, and Spice Girl and Gold Experience Requiem which are full blown sentient.

>> No.29529862 [DELETED] 
File: 1.52 MB, 1714x1252, Jojo movie summary poster 1-8.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
29529862

>>29529822
Part 1: Kenshiro fighting vampires
Part 2: Kenshiro tricking super-vampires, also nazi's come to save the day!
Part 3: Fighting travelogue around the world. (Here is were Stands where introduced, and where Persona decided to ripoff Araki.)
Part 4: Small town life, with a serial killer and fights!
Part 5: Mob story with *really* pretty guys
Part 6: Female prision story, where the chicks are manlier than the guys from part 5
Part 7: Brokeback race across america, with lots of fighting, and the villian is the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
Part 7: The arc with the most balls.

>> No.29529878

>>29529781

I'd have thought "spirit" and "prime" would be the two arcana needed to directly fuck with stands ala Whitesnake (who has a few dots of Mind as well) - whitesnake is kinda important of a thing to consider because he literally seperates a person's PERSON into two chunks - memories (mind) and their Stand (spirit/prime).

Actually, personally I might have it be Prime is ripples, Spirit is Stands, take Prime+spirit and you get rotation shit.

Failing that, you might have to rejigger the arcana to fit JoJo: just straight up have Rotation, Stand, Mind, Ripples. Death, Forces, Matter, Life - something like that.

>> No.29529880
File: 1.52 MB, 1714x1252, Jojo movie summary poster 1-8.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
29529880

>>29529822
Part 1: Kenshiro fighting vampires
Part 2: Kenshiro tricking super-vampires, also Nazis come to save the day!
Part 3: Fighting travelogue around the world. (Here is were Stands where introduced, and where Persona decided to ripoff Araki.)
Part 4: Small town life, with a serial killer and fights!
Part 5: Mob story with *really* pretty guys
Part 6: Female prision story, where the chicks are manlier than the guys from part 5
Part 7: Brokeback race across america, with lots of fighting, and the villian is the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
Part 8: The arc with the most balls.

>> No.29529905

totally excited to see this thread

>> No.29529942

>>29529827
GER is an Archmage?

>> No.29530063

>>29529942

GER is fukken bullshit, that's what it is.

>> No.29530067
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29530067

>>29529942
GER was able to act and even talk without the user even being being concious.

>>29530063
Pretty much.

>> No.29530261

>>29530063
Oh please, over reacting like this whenever GER or King Crimson are brought up. Or Time stands.

>> No.29530367

>>29529878
Those were actually my exact thoughts. Speccing into Prime would make one a Ripple User. Maybe Spirit would be the ORAORAORA stat instead of Gnosis/Stand Power?

Admittedly I'm not far enough along to know jack shit about rotation, but I doubt we'd come across it much in our game.

>> No.29530444
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29530444

>>29530261
No one thinks King Crimson is bullshit because they can't understand it.

>> No.29530573

>>29530367
Oh man you are missing one of the neatest JoJos. Go read SBR

>> No.29530635

>>29530444
>not dio vs koichi.gif

>> No.29530667

>>29530635
My fukken sides.

>> No.29530674

>>29530261
Time Stands are cool, because they can do clever things and it takes a lot of thinking to work around them. GER is bullshit.

>> No.29530893

I miss super stand Sunday.
It was fun seeing all the neat stands people came up with.

>> No.29531318

>>29520875
>Ever suggesting using Exalted's system
>Especially for things that aren't Exalted
Why would you do this to the poor man?

>> No.29531374

>>29521180
>The rolling system for White Wolf is actually more like "Add two numbers, now modifiers, now other modifiers, then roll, then count the ones that say a certain number, subtracting other numbers sometimes if they show up on the dice, then compare that number with the difficulty you set, now see what happens, oh wait check if you need to reroll some dice or 10-again others or if you need to add or subtract a number of success and OH NO I'VE GONE CROSSEYED"
None of this remotely resembles the rolling system for nWoD, which includes Awakening.

The rolling system is more like: take your ratings in the most appropriate attribute and skill, roll that many dice. Add extra dice or remove dice from this pool to represent beneficial or detrimental circumstances or equipment (just like how masterwork gives you a bonus to your attack roll, or the DM can increase the DC if things are tougher than usual).

Anything that comes up 8 or higher is a success. 1 success is enough for any task that doesn't have anyone else rolling (if other people are rolling, just get more successes than they have). If you roll a 10, it counts as a success, then keep rolling it until you don't have any more 10s.

>> No.29531489

>>29529942
>>29530063
>>29530067
So GER is a subsoul.

>> No.29531611

>>29531489
True fey

>> No.29532181

>>29522109
>Mentioning the Timestop right there in the book.
What's wrong with you dude? I know it's Kind of common knowledge by now, but there are still plenty of people who don't know it, and Part 3 is a lot better to read if you don't.

>> No.29532241

>>29532181
That's true of a lot of Jojo powers. A big part of the fun is trying to figure out how an opposing Stand works, but to discuss a system, you have to discuss Stand abilities and how to represent them.

>> No.29532258

>>29532241
Yeah, but the ENTIRE ARC is pretty much "Oh shit, what's his power?" and that mystery runs through the entire part.

>> No.29532296

>>29532181
>>29532241
>>29532258
Timestop is literally the only thing I know about Jojo, thanks to the whole WRYYYYYYYYYY meme.

>> No.29532353

While we're talking about Stands and stuff, what was the point of Bites the dust Turning back time?

Was just murdering anyone who found out not enough? and they die anyways even after time is reset, EVEN if they don't find out in the new timeline, so what is the point?

>> No.29533019

>>29532181

Dude, if someone hasn't read JoJo, why'd they even care to look at those rules?

>>29532353

Um, killing off everyone who tried to find him? You know, the thing Kira had tried to do all along?

>> No.29533450

>>29533019
But how does time travel even help that goal? If bites the dust just blew up everyone who found out Kira's secret without reversing the timeflow, it would have the same effect

>> No.29534154

>>29533450
Fuck if I know. Maybe so he'll be away from the scene when they blow up? So as not to get called in for questioning and the like?

>> No.29534301

>>29533450
It prevents the discovery from happening in the first place, then destroys the one who made the discovery so they can't possibly make the discovery again.

>> No.29534879

>>29533450
magic

>> No.29534952

>>29533450

It just works.

>> No.29537382
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29537382

>>29532181
see >>29533019

Of course, for those dragging their non-FABULOUS friends into the game, it can be the one power that they want and the GM can slap their shit before they even get it.

Timestop is a purely GM power in JoJo.

>> No.29538236

>>29537382
How do you channel the FABULOUS of Jojo in a tabletop?

>>JSCervini

There are a lot of 4channers posting from that Ateneo university.

>> No.29538284

Is it true that Stroheim inspired SF's Guile?

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