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/tg/ - Traditional Games


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[ERROR] No.29094606 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

You're deep into fantasy lore and such, /tg/, much more so than /lit/ or /tv/. So a simple question for you guys:

Why?

>> No.29094620

Being a creative, especially in a social context, makes you saner than someone who just consumes.

>> No.29094637

>>29094606
Why are we in so deep or why did Jackson decide to mar his story with a strong independent beta-elf and her crappy love triangle?

>> No.29094653

I won't presume to answer for the board or the majority that browse it, but I can at least provide some explanation for myself.

My interest in worldbuilding and lore derives from my fascination with alternate-history and anthropology. I love working out how societies work; the more alien they are, the better.

>> No.29094654

>>29094606
Why? Ask not why you can read, but why the man who does not read only lives once

>> No.29094655

Why what? Why put her into the movie? To appeal to a larger demographic.

You don't need to know any fantasy lore to know that, unless your "why" refers to something else.

>> No.29094658

>>29094606
>Why fantasy
It's fun. I personally know way too much about Tolkien, and that's because I just think it's very fun to immerse myself in that kind of thing. I know a lot of real-world history for the same reason
>Why Tauriel
Because Peter Jackson is a hooker.

>> No.29094669

I honestly have no idea.

I'm ashamed to say I've never read any of Tolkien's books, so I don't know what she changed in her scenes, but if I had to guess as to why she was in the movie...probably to increase the ticket sales.

Really, some of her scenes weren't that bad either, but the ones that were bad...oh man. They were horrible. A love triangle between two elves and a dwarf? What?! If this is a thing then why was it such a big fucking deal in the LotR movies when Legolas and Gimli became friends? What the fuck Jackson?

>> No.29094679

I could have lived with tauriel

I could not live with the love story

>> No.29094689

>>29094654
>Ask not why you can read, but why the man who does not read only lives once

>> No.29094693

>>29094669
I actually really liked her relationship with Kili, being a manlet with a basketballer gf. But this movie officially ruined Lego-lass for me. This is why we stick to the books.

>> No.29094702

>>29094606
Because otherwise, there would have been no female characters in the Hobbit.

People would have got angry and whined about it on the internet.

>> No.29094706

>>29094693
>I actually really liked her relationship with Kili

>> No.29094721

>>29094706
>m-muh opinions!

>> No.29094728

>>29094693
>I actually really liked her relationship with Kili

It would have been okay if it were more like an admiration/friendship thing, but Jackson had to turn it into a fucking love triangle

>> No.29094745

>>29094693
>I actually really liked her relationship with Kili

I'm pretty sure it was Fili

>> No.29094748

>>29094606
>Why?
To make the buttmad autists rage, and to allow neckbeards to secretly fap to her while posting in pretend-rage about her on the internet.

And because a strong, independent Elf girl character makes for far better rape ERP.

>> No.29094759

>>29094702
>People would have got angry and whined about it on the internet.
This way, different people get angry and whine about it on the internet.

>> No.29094764

>Why Tauriel
Money, dear boy. Jackson needs filler if he wants to make three movies out of a single book.

Elves are faggots by nature. I don't know why Tauriel was getting her hopes up about another elf, and one of the more faggoty-looking ones no less.

>> No.29094779

Gods, I can give you two reasons. I don't know whether we should blame Jackson directly, however, this could just be corporate meddling.

The most likely answer isn't that they needed a female character so the internet wouldn't complain. More likely they looked around and realized that a love story makes an 'action' movie more attractive to the female audience. See: Titanic. It doesn't make it better, however. See: Pearl Harbor, Star Wars prequels.

So, PANDERING. PANDERING IS WHAT IT IS.

>> No.29094788

To increase audience range.

Don't you know how film marketing works?

>> No.29094794

>>29094655

>To appeal to a larger demographic.

This is an objectively correct answer.

Movies without females do not sell. There are several disastrous precedents that hammered this point across the movie industry quite vividly. The equality nazis already give Peter Jackson an earful for not using actors of color, imagine if there were no women as well.

>> No.29094795

Better question is why Smaug and Tauriel are pronounced differently.

>> No.29094797

>>29094779
Oh yeah, it was the love story that ruined Pearl Harbor.

>> No.29094814

>>29094797

It didn't make it better either. You never hear anyone say "Pearl Harbor was a piece of shit. Thank god there was the love story to hold my attention."

>> No.29094819

>>29094794
Oh, so THAT'S why he zoomed in so much on that one black townie during Thorin's speech?

>> No.29094937

>>29094606
Because we didn't get our c/lit/s pierced and we aren't obsessed with real teenage girls.

>> No.29094986

I thought it was brave of them to cast an ugly chick as the elf gurl. All the male elves were a lot prettier than her, and less manly

>> No.29095040

>>29094606
>Why?

$. ¥. ₡. ₱. £. ¢. ﷼. ƒ. ₦. ₩. kr. ₫.

Money. Cash. Moolah. Wonga. Dosh.

enough said?

>> No.29095064

>>29094795
Different language of origin?

>> No.29095065

The Hobbit book doesn't have a single female character with a name who isn't mentioned in Lord of the Rings.

>> No.29095103

>>29094606
>Why?

Because Sexy Red-Headed Elf.

>> No.29095249

>>29094606
Why not?

>> No.29095402

>>29095103

>Sexy

Low standards, huh

>> No.29095447

>>29095402

>My interpretation and reaction to physical phenomena is truth.

Shouldn't you be in a padded cell?

>> No.29095474

>>29095447
>I disagree with you and therefore you are insane

Shouldn't you be in a place where people can spout their worthless opinions all day without any form of quality control...

Nevermind, carry on.

>> No.29095492

>>29095402
Be careful with that edge bro, you might cut yourself more

>> No.29095570

>>29095492
>>29095474
>>29095447
>>29095402
>>29095103

>> No.29095607

The Warriors.

You motherfuckers, how could you not mention the goddamn Warriors?

>> No.29095668

>>29094764
The thing is, he totally could have made a movie just as long covering the same span from the book without resorting to the whole love triangle bullshit. They blew through Mirkwood like it was nothing, when the spiders and the capture by the elves would have both made for really good stealth/suspense thriller sequences. They also could have done a lot more with Gandalf going to Dol Goldur, which they totally butchered for no apparent reason. Why did it have to be Gandalf infiltrating on his own and getting his butt kicked by Sauron reviving DECADES ahead of schedule, when they could have stuck with what the book says happened -- ie, Gandalf going in along with others from the White Council and driving the Necromancer/Sauron out because the latter was still too weak to fight them head-on?

The scenes with Smaug in the Lonely Mountain would have been much better done as tense stealth/infiltration stuff rather than that ridiculous chase sequence.

It wasn't that they needed to add the love story to fill time -- they had plenty of material to work with to do that regardless. Apparently they decided an action flick with a nonsensical love triangle and numerous plotholes between itself and the LotR trilogy would be better.

And the worst part is, according to ticket sales and critical reviews, they were actually right.
>pic related, mfw

>> No.29095679

>>29094606
Because.

>> No.29095715

>>29095668
I do agree, but I did love Smaug, though not the peekaboo dwarves.

>> No.29095728

>Why?

Because she is a measly Silvan Elf of Nandorin or even Avari stock, and as such the very thought of her consorting closely with pure-blooded Sindar of Oropher's House is an outrage.

>> No.29095745

>>29094606
because it makes euphoric fedoras like you buttmad while most people don't give a shit

>> No.29095746

>>29095728
THEREs my /tg/.

>> No.29095806

>>29094606

Because Hobbit's original story was too mysogynist for not including a strong independant womyn who doesn't afraid anything, and not including one would cause the studio much grief regardless of whether or not the movie remained true to the story.

That being said, I don't mind all that much, because >>29095103


Bottom line: be glad it didn't end up as pic related.

>> No.29095849

>>29095715
Smaug was pretty good up until the chase. Honestly, I would've even been alright with the chase scene if it had been played as Smaug humoring them with a little cat-and-mouse rather than being reduced to a bumbling fool that gets outmaneuvered at every turn.

And then the stupidity of what he does when their big plan turns out to be totally ineffective...he has the dwarves at his mercy, they've proven they have no way of meaningfully harming him, and they've pissed him off. So what does he do? Leave them alone and head out to torch Laketown.

You're pretty much forced to conclude that Smaug has gone completely senile or something at that point.

>> No.29095875

>>29095806
Honestly, I don't think anyone would've really minded if it were just the inclusion of an original female character. It's shoehorning her into a love triangle plot that makes no sense whatsoever and totally hijacks half the movie that's the problem.

>> No.29095891

>>29095745
You're giving a pretty big shit if you bring those stereotypes to mind.

>> No.29095900

>>29094759
Even the people it's allegedly supposed to appeal to. I've read at least three feminist blogs complaining about the tokenism

>> No.29095916

Because Peter Jackson is a huge fan of interracial NTR

Elf bitches love dat big dwarf cock

>> No.29095958

>>29095849
>Dat gold texture
UUUUGH! So gross. Yea I hate those parts too.

>> No.29095959

>>29094606
Because every movie has to have a romance subplot of investors won't back it.

>> No.29095964

>>29095900

But the tumblr/srs people aren't relevant. The main point is that big media isn't complaining about a pure sausagefest.

>> No.29095983

>>29095849
Remember when he and Bilbe first met and het pushed over a massive solid stone column with little effort, but then OMG THESE BUCKET ROPES! SO STRONK! WAT DO?!

He turns into a retarded puppy.

>> No.29096005

>>29095668
>that ridiculous chase sequence.

That was one of the best scenes in the movie.

>> No.29096009

>>29095900
>I've read at least three feminist blogs complaining about the tokenism
SCREEN CAP IT! FRAME IT! PUT IT ON THEIR WALL!

let them, know this shit ain't working and that they are better off leaving things as they are!

>> No.29096029

>>29095983
>OMG THESE BUCKET ROPES! SO STRONK! WAT DO?!

You've never been tied up or been tangled up before have you?

>> No.29096033

>>29095806
>ElronD
Am I racist or is she?

>> No.29096037

>>29094606

>fletching facing into bow
>arrow resting on finger not against bow
>string in 2nd knuckle of 1st finger
>floating anchor point

1/10

>> No.29096038

>>29096005
Are you joking? That whole scene may as well have had yackety sax playing in the background.

>> No.29096047

>>29095728
THIS
Captcha :balizta there

>> No.29096056

>>29096029
You have never been a dragon before have you?

>> No.29096070

>>29096038
I hope that some youtube makes a parody of exactly this.

>> No.29096081

>why a completely new female oc
Because female audiences want a strong independent womyn character
>why a butterface actress
Because female audiences want a strong independent womyn character they can identify with, without being intimidated by her looks
>why a love triangle
Because female audiences want love triangles
>why Legolas
Because female audiences want Orlando Bloom
>why is Legolas completely smitten by that lowly butterface dwarf-loving bitch
>why is it okay for an elf to have a romance with a dwarf, disregarding the obvious racism shown in LotR?
Because female audiences want the character they identify with to be loved by all the hot guys – in this case, Legolas and Kili (see Sue, Mary)

See? Many questions, single answer.
It's the same thing as when movie directors insert T&A and almost-nude scenes to pander to the male audience. Except now it's pandering to the female audience.
Expect more of this shit in other upcoming movie hits.

>> No.29096147

>>29096081
>butterface actress
Seriously where the fuck is this coming from?
I mean I don't find Hollywood actors in general very attractive, but she looks just fine to me, incredibly boring, but not unattractive.

>> No.29096149

>>29094637

I think the love story was in there to mock 90% of Lord of the Rings fans.

>> No.29096167

>>29096009
>>29095964
>>29095900
Uhh... No, no, no, a million times no.
Tumblr radfems and SJWs are the most vocal, true. But they don't matter in terms of money revenue.
Movie execs don't pander to tumblr activists. They pander to a wider audience of female neckbeards. The ones who quietly schlick to Legolas gay fanfiction, and couldn't care less about the patriarchy and whatnot. And they couldn't care less about the book, too. I bet this audience is mostly satisfied with the film.
For my explanation, see >>29096081

>> No.29096184

>>29094658
>Because Peter Jackson is a hooker.
Honestly, i think he just has an elf-on-dwarf fetish. cuckolded hobbit optional.

>> No.29096187

>>29095875
What's the problem with the love plot?
Honestly I could very well see the exact same plot being written by Tolkien.
The only thing it's missing was Tauriel being Legolas's cousin then it could have really fooled me.

>> No.29096218

>>29096147
>incredibly boring, but not unattractive
That's what I meant actually.
True, in real life most of us would bone her without second thought.
But in Hollywood terms, "incredibly boring" means "butterface". See Kristen Stewart.

When female audiences need a character to identify with, they often prefer such "boring" images. Kinda like harem animu, where the protagonist the male audience identifies with, isn't some kind of hunky Adonis, but rather a "boring"-looking random guy. Again, see Kristen Stewart.

>> No.29096221

>>29094779
>love story makes an 'action' movie more attractive to the female audience
fuck you i wanted my faithful rendition of the books, fuck tumblr.

>> No.29096246

I'll be honest: I haven't read the book in 10+ years. I remember a decent bit about it, but I haven't read it in forever. I loved the shit out of both movies, but the second one even more so.

I have friends who read the book before the first film came out. They were complaining about how much they changed the film from the book. Their complaints were kind of negated for me, though, because they thought that Beorn and Tom Bombadil were the same person and were confused about the beginning of the film.

I really liked Tauriel. Her actress is a huge Tolkien fan and has dreamed since she was a bairn of being an elf. She was actually really hesitant about this role since it was deviating so much and she didn't like the triangle shit either. You can see this in the chemistry between her and Legolas, which I think makes the movie even better. It's not an actual triangle; Legolas is just getting outright denied while his love is going after a Dwarven hotstud. I dislike Legolas, though, so, this all pleases me.

The only beef I really had was when they had the whole Wayne's World DREAAAAAAAMWEAVER healing sequence. However, if I recall correctly, I read something that said that was cannon. Frodo had something similar when he saw Galadriel in the LotR trilogy.

All in all, I really like the changes and additions into this book. Tauriel I can understand complaining about, but I do love how the Dwarves and Smaug interact and how Azog is kept alive. It makes for a better movie, in my opinion.

Side bit: anyone else here really love Smaug's presentation? In the first trailer, he looked like the dragon from Shrek to me. I went in with the lowest expectations for him, especially because Benedick Cumbersnatch was playing him, but the voice and the visuals blew me away. Everything I've ever wanted in a movie dragon and then some.

>> No.29096255

>>29096167
Well damn. That means things are worse than I thought.

Or maybe not. I'm really questioning whether or not I should give a fuck at this point.

>> No.29096258

>>29096187
It is bloated and doesnt really add anything to te movie. And they cut out good bits from the story to add it in is a fucking sin that PJ deserves at least a week in hell for.

>> No.29096260

>>29096149
Honestly, movie execs could care less.

They know most fans will buy tickets no matter what, so this part of revenue is secure, even if the entire film turns out to be a shot of Peter Jackson shitting on J.R.R.Tolkien's portrait. Fans would still buy dem tickets.

So, they know fans will bitch, but will still pay. Thus, they have free reign to insert any female audience pandering they need (to get more revenue money).

>> No.29096270

Reading the shit people said about this movie, and seeing it today, has made me conclude that people that whine about the movie are blowing stuff way out of proportion.

Sure, I didn't really care for the scenes where Tauriel was in, but they weren't that long, and didn't really distract from the rest of the movie. They were just kind of there.

The rest of the film was pretty freaking great. I loved the stuff going on in Dol Guldur, and Smaug is pretty much the best dragon I have seen in movies.

The gold did look like shit though, but to be fair, I have never seen molten gold, so I don't know what it actually looks like.

Overall, I fucking loved that movie. Every scene where Smaug spoke was amazing. The people bitching about him not being a "traditional" dragon are fucking retards.

>> No.29096308

>>29096246
This is some intricate ass bait if ive ever saw some.

>> No.29096319

>>29096187

Tolkien in fact wrote an interspecies "almost-romance" that didn't became more due to unbridgeable differences, it involved one of Fëanor's sons and a female chieftain from one of the first houses of men.

>> No.29096320

>>29096270
Yeah, he looks good as a wyvern.

>> No.29096323

>>29094606
Because the source material is stretched too thin. Really, that's where most of these movies' flaws stem from.

>> No.29096336

>>29096184
>cuckolded hobbit optional.
Bitch please.
The only way Bilbo could get cuckolded is if Kili eats his dinner. Nigga just doesn't give a fuck about them elf bitches.

No, we'll get Legolas whining about his small elf cock while Tauriel's hips will be moving on their own on Kili's Arkenstone.

>> No.29096337

>>29096270
I agree. But then you have to realize they took out stuff to add in the Elf luv.

>> No.29096338

>>29094606
They wanted to modernize the story to make it more cinematic. And I think they did a good job. I like this trilogy more than the books.
The romance was tacked on, overly mushy, unromantic, and had nothing to contribute, but what else is new - there are never good love stories inserted into things anymore. Jacko must like his dwarf x elf.
My dad speculated that she might be Dwarf number 5's long lost mother. I would approve of that over what we seam to be getting, but it feels EXTREMELY flimsy.

I knew from the start she was going to be a flawless mary sue, but ALL elves are, so it didn't bother me very much.
.

>> No.29096339

>>29095040
>kr.
Does... does someone in the world actually call money credits?

>> No.29096344

>>29095607
>The Warriors

What about it?

>> No.29096350

>>29096187
It makes no sense whatsoever that a wood elf would just randomly fall in love at first sight with some random dwarf that they happened to capture. Elves and dwarves in Tolkien do not get along. It's kind of a big deal in the LotR trilogy when Legolas and Gimli's friendship bucks that trend.

But apparently Tauriel is the single most open-minded elf in Middle Earth or something, because she is all over that shit. Either that or we're supposed to just forget that Legolas and Gimli getting along in the trilogy is supposed to be a big shock to established race relations.

>> No.29096363

>>29096323
No. They cut out parts to add in love triangle.

>> No.29096364

>>29096338
*BOOK

fuck
ridicule me tg
I am a wooooooorrrmmm

>> No.29096367

>>29096246
>>29096270
Thanks guys, you made my day. I'm getting out of here before the neckbeards drag me back down.

>> No.29096377

>>29096339
kroner.

danish.

pretty sure it would translate to 'croowns'

>> No.29096385

>>29096270

Oh, and adding to this, I fucking loved the Elves in this film.
The fight scenes where Legolas and Tauriel were in had me throughout entertained. It made the Elves seem like otherwordly beings, who moved like no human could. The barrel scene was amazingly entertaining, and the fight choreography was bloody great.

I could just imagine the dwarves riding in those barrels, and seeing the insane moves the elves pulled, grumbling to themselves about "Those Fucking Elves and their fancy fighting style."

>>29096320
Agreed.
His movements made him look extremely imposing, and dangerous at the same time, like some sort of massive serpent with wings. But the best scenes hands down where those in which he taunted Bilbo, and used just parts of his body to block Bilbo's movements.

>> No.29096392

>>29096056

In the internet no one can tell you are a dragon.

>> No.29096401

>>29096338

>there are never good love stories inserted into things anymore.

That's because they're inserted into otherwise good stories. Or otherwise shitty stories. If you want a good love story, you should START by writing a love story, and not by needlessly tossing it into an adventure epic.

>> No.29096404

>>29096350
>>29096350
Nah. The film directly reminds us that Elves hate Dwarves and vice versa about every time they meet except for "OH KILI MY BOW IS SHOOTING ALL ON ITS OWN" "IF YOU GET POISONED LIKE THAT ILL AHHHH!!"

>> No.29096416

>>29094606
Basically, because Christopher Lee wasn't watching over Jackson's shoulder. In LotR, Lee was there to veto retarded shit like Sauron having a physical fight with Aragorn. In The Hobbit, he wasn't, so we got multikulti Dale and a token STRONG WYMYN character.

>> No.29096420

>>29096319
He also wrote several successful human-elf interspecies romances, e.g., Aragorn/Arwen and Beren/Lutien. And Gimli was going apeshit over Galadriel's beauty (and she didn't seem to mind), so the dwarf-elf attraction is also sorta canon.

The only thing that irks me is Legolas. A proud valiant hero reduced to a cuckolded beta faggot who does everything his dwarf-feverish gf tells him to.

P.S.: Actually, Gimli x Galadriel would be a much better love triangle than this shit

>> No.29096430

Both Hobbit movies have been extremely underwhelming so far, mainly because they've turned an adventure into a rollecoaster ride. Every single fight basically consists of dwarves waving swords about and running around, and everything around them just dies. Goblin town and the freaking barrel scene are the worst offenders. There is no weight at all to all these action scenes. I don't think the dwarves have ever crossed blades with an enemy, it's all just one hit k.o's, which is probably due to the excessive CGI.
Also, Radagast is for 3 year olds, and Cate Blanchett is still mai waifu.
bleh.

>> No.29096431

>>29096404
So...wait. Let me get this straight. The fact that the movie itself even points out how little sense this romance plot makes somehow makes said romance plot ok?

>> No.29096438

>>29096385
>It made the Elves seem like otherwordly beings, who moved like no human could
It made them seem like even bigger mary sues.


>AND DEN LEGOLAS FREE RUNS ON THE RAILING AND SHOOTS THE ORC IN DA FACE FROM SIX INCEHS AWAY FATSER THAN IT CAN SWORD HIM BECAUSE ELVES!
>ASSASINS CREED IS GREYT!

I have never before known what it would be like ot watch a shitty fanfiction. Now I do.

>> No.29096444

>>29095806
That filename is expertly chosen, my jimies were quite rustled upon reading that. Good job.
That being said, I didn't mind Tauriel in the story, she fit in well enough, it was the awkward romance with Kili that made me cringe. Elves and dwarfes hooking up in LotR is jus weird, somehow, though I couldn't say precicely how or why.

>> No.29096448

>>29096420
> Gimli x Galadriel
Mental images make me chuckle.

>> No.29096452

>>29096431
... I was agreeing with you.

>> No.29096454

>>29096431

Just remember, irony justifies everything.

>> No.29096479

>>29096452
Ah, alright then. The "nah" at the beginning of your post had me confused, you see. The content seemed to be supporting my point, but opening with a negatory made it seem like you might've been dismissing my point.

>> No.29096490

>>29096246
>Side bit: anyone else here really love Smaug's presentation?
I think it was good. The scenes play a little bit differently from the novel, but the changes are slight and work well with their portrayal of Smaug.

>> No.29096497

>>29096438
And elves fighting balrogs in a single combat isn't sue enough for you?

>> No.29096506

Just you wait.
In part 3 she's gonna leave both elf and dwarf faggots for the alpha male white orc bishie.

And then they'll decide to become literal elf and dwarf faggots. With each other.

>> No.29096513

>>29096438

Well, I guess it depends on what you think Elves are supposed to be.
To me, they have always been superior to other races, so them fighting exactly like that suited them.

And I don't even particularly like Elves.
Them being superior beings is just their thing.
The way they fought excellently portrayed that they aren't just humans with pointy ears and fabulous looks. They are truly inhuman and superior.

So if you just hate elves, I guess that sort of shit would infuriate people like you more.

>> No.29096522

>>29096430
To be fair, the novel had very little actual combat in it, certainly not enough to keep the interest of the average movie-goer for THREE FUCKING MOVIES.
Doesn't excuse the awkward-looking fight between Gandalf and the Necromancer, what with Gandalf repeatedly casting lv3 Force Barrier...

>> No.29096530

>>29096308
That's not bait. Bait would be telling the people complaining about Tauriel being a mary sue that Gandalf is the biggest mary sue in the entire universe. Or that Frodo was put into the book for beta males to feel good about themselves because, even if he couldn't do anything special, he saved the day. Or that there was a lot of homosexual pandering with Sam and Frodo in the first set of movies.

I can't carry the ring, Mr. Frodo, but I can carry your baby in this m-preg fantasy.

>> No.29096532

>>29096497
Those elves werent third age elves...
>>29096506
Delete that shit before deviantart gets a hold of it.

>> No.29096538

>>29096377
Crowns generally refer to coins with a monarch printed on them. Naming your currency crowns is not exclusive to Denmark, it's fairly common.

>> No.29096539

>>29095916
Interracial NTR fan here.

Elf bitch not pure and innocent enough to be corrupted by oversized dwarf cock

>> No.29096564

>>29096444
>That filename is expertly chosen, my jimies were quite rustled upon reading that. Good job.
at least eowyn was still cute?

>> No.29096565

I liked the scene where Gandalf stops by the tomb of the Nine.

>> No.29096569

>>29096438
If you have problems with elves being Mary Sues, you're in the wrong universe, bub. Go play some Greyhawk or something. Tolkien made his Elves superhuman Finns that were all but perfect in nearly every way imaginable.

>> No.29096570

>>29096490
>work well with their portrayal of Smaug.
What, as a braindead moron?

Why, WHY did he just leave the dwarves to go to Laketown when he had them completely at his mercy? It makes no fucking sense whatsoever. Everything up to that point, I could've maybe dealt with, Scooby-Doo chase sequence and all, but when he just decides to go full retard and take out his irritation on Laketown INSTEAD of the very source of his irritation which he now has every opportunity to turn into so many chunks of charcoal...

>> No.29096580

>>29096569
>finns
Then why didn't we see any Mongolian actors in LotR?

>> No.29096596

>>29096506
There's an orc bishie?

>> No.29096601

>>29096350
I think it was their conversations that did it for her. Plus, you have to keep in mind that Legolas is all up on her V and, even though she don't want none of that elven prince cockflower, his dad is going "listen here, you common Elven bitch, my son ain't gonna have nonna that cunt, ya hear me?"

>> No.29096612

>>29094606
I like studying history and mythology. Fantasy is just a mishmash of these things, so it's obvious why I like it.

>> No.29096628

>>29096497

Perhaps there is a "power level" issue there too, but keeping in mind the kind of stories Tolkien wrote, a High Elf noble (with enchanted armor and weapons) facing a balrog in single combat is pretty fitting. Old tales like Beowulf, St George etc. are full of that shit.

Now Hurin killing 70 trolls and a horde of orcs in one battle, that puts movie-Legolas to shame.

>> No.29096629

>>29096570
Yea. Everything but scooby doo and I accidentally the chase scene was good.

>> No.29096634

>>29095728

Either way neither of their ancestors saw the Light of the Trees. Oh, those poor idiots of the Teleri getting left behind because their king was having got a booty call with a Maia that lasted centuries. Good for him, bad for his people.

>> No.29096648

>>29096570
It's because he can fuck shit up more in Laketown and they didn't want him to go there. He can come back and kill the Dwarves. Are you an autist? Do you need everything spelled out for you?

>> No.29096651

>>29096570

Maybe he decided to taunt the dwarves and especially Bilbo, by killing the Laketown people, as they couldn't do dick to stop him?

In fact, it seems like exactly what an evil Dragon would do, especially when he fucking states that to Bilbo.

"You care about them? Good. You can watch them die!"

What the fuck could the Dwarves even do. They can't steal his gold horde, they can't flee in time to escape his wrath. At most, they could hide in Erebor.
In his mind, he is just gonna go torch the town, to taunt the Dwarves and Bilbo, and return back to kill them.

It's completely in character.

>> No.29096653

>>29096565
Best part of the movie, hands down.

>> No.29096665

>>29096420
>The only thing that irks me is Legolas. A proud valiant hero reduced to a cuckolded beta faggot who does everything his dwarf-feverish gf tells him to.
This.
I'm all for dwarf x elf romance. I like dwarves generally, so I'll be rooting for my dwarf bro to tap that beardless silvan pussy.
But I don't get why they also had to change Legolas - the future motherfucking hero of the war - into a cuckolded beta. Even if he's a glorified Mary Sue in the movies – I still can't hate him that much.

>> No.29096706

>>29096651
>Oh no!
>There is a big fire out there!
>So what Bilbo. Only that faggot Bard lives there
>GOLD! JEWELS! COOL SHIT!
>WHERE THE FUCK IS MUH ARKENSTONE!
BIL BOOOOOO!!!!

>> No.29096713

>>29096438
Although I find your message hilarious, I do think it's nice that we actually are presented with elves that are actually more than thin humans fashion models with pointy ears. Hundreds of years of practice should fucking _show_, you know?

>> No.29096717

>>29096601
So, she's just using Kili as an elaborate "fuck you" to Thranduil via his son? Hm, may make sense possibly.

Still doesn't excuse Legolas being a beta faggot.

>> No.29096726

>>29096385
I also liked the elves in this movie – though I feel I must add that I was kinda bored throughout most of the barrel scene. I enjoyed Lee Pace as Thranduil the Douchebag, and I honestly thought Orlando Bloom did okay. The designers behind the look of Mirkwood's elves deserve any recognition they get for the work they put in. I can't say I liked Tauriel, but I wouldn't put that on Evangeline Lily as much as the material she has to work with.

>> No.29096735

>tfw Bard will shoot the black arrow from the ballista
>tfw Just as he lets loose the bolt, Smaug scorches the ballista
>tfw Tauriel pushes Bard out of the way of the dragonfire, getting hit herself
>tfw as she's dying, she fires an arrow that hits the black arrow bolt, and adjusts it trajectory so it hits Smaug in his weak spot

Search your heart, you know it to be true

>> No.29096738

>>29096538
oh yeah, but i thought kroner would translate to crowns in english.

>> No.29096740

>>29096706

What the fuck are you even trying to say?

>> No.29096767

>>29096726
>Thanduils dragon scar
That shit was actually pretty cool.

>> No.29096771

>>29096735

Why exactly do you think that would happen?
Seriously, you people are blowing shit way out of proportion.
If you honestly think that Jackson is gonna have the elf chick kill Smaug, you are beyond deluded.

>> No.29096778

>>29096713
Id' argue the first trilogy got that down, what with the golden armored archer-swordsmen who move and fight in unison even when faced with an ungodly number of orcs in the prologue, and the, again, incredibly disciplined army showing up in the two towers.


This last movie was just no-tension, assassins creed inspired shit.

>> No.29096784

>>29096648
OR, he could torch the dwarves now, and THEN go burninate Laketown out of spite. Or if he wants to torment the dwarves with the whole thing, he could CATCH them and CARRY THEM WITH HIM. It's not like he needs his claws for flyover burning.

Laketown isn't going anywhere. The dwarves will. And they'll probably take a nice chunk of his hoard with them -- remember, Smaug is a greedy, jealous fuck. Even if it is a tiny fraction of his hoard that they could make off with in the time he'd be gone, he's not going to be happy with that. Considering the whole reason he's pissed at the dwarves in the first place is because they were trying to steal from his hoard, leaving them free to do exactly that as he goes to get his revenge for it is just retarded.

In the books, he had a damn good reason to leave and go to Laketown -- he couldn't find the dwarves, so that was the best he could do. Here, he has them completely at his mercy and decides to just leave them be. It is literally the stupidest thing he could do in this scenario.

>> No.29096801

I don't understand why everyone's all like "OMG elves such mary-sues such shit".

I mean, that's the POINT of Elves isn't it? They're meant to be better than a comparable Human in practically every way. Faster, Smarter, more experienced, more immortal, more beautiful.

Every way except one. A very important one. They are a dying fail-race.

Elves can be mary-sues all they want but the other races will inevitably have the last laugh.

>> No.29096811

>>29096767
it's a shame we had to get that forced (and completely out of place) in romance instead of blibo sneaking around and organizing an escape.

>> No.29096819

>>29095849

I just assumed he had absolutely terrible ADD or something. I mean he seemed utterly incapable of focusing on ANYTHING for longer then five minutes. Hell I'm surprised he didn't just go 'fuck it', turn around, and go right back to sleep on his bed.

>> No.29096831

>>29096778

Having two armies clash on a battlefield is quite different scenario, than a skirmish occurring between few elves, and a band of orcs in uneven riverside terrain.

Both portrayals are fitting.

>> No.29096841

>>29096740
The dwarves couldnt give two shits about laketown when they were surrounded by mountains of gold. Bilbo might be, but couldnt do anything about it or actually see more than a fire in the distance.

So Smaug is going to give up eating the party that is 20 feet away to destroy laketown that only bilbo gives a fuck about, but cant really see...

>> No.29096845

>>29096819
Of course! They had to make him more relatable to the audience, so they gave Smaug horrible ADD! It all makes sense now!

>> No.29096872

>>29096735
>the fire consumes her leather armor
>underneath a "Dwarf bitch 4 lyfe" shirt is shown
>and as Legolas leans to his dying love, she gathers all her will into one whisper
>"I-it's bigger... than yours"
>and she dies
>tear of admiration runs down Legolas' cheek

>> No.29096882

>>29096801
>Faster, Smarter, more experienced, more immortal, more beautiful.
SO have them fight with great speed and skill, not liek asscreed ripoffs who shoot fucking arrows out of the air and do stupid, illogical shit that looks cool.

>> No.29096889

>>29096801

Especially given that Tolkien's pureblooded humans have just impressive kill records.

Elf nobles > noname balrogs
Ecthelion > lord of balrogs but died himself
Bard > Smaug
Hurin > orc army and 70 trolls
Turin > Glaurung and Melkor

>> No.29096902

>>29096784

How in the fuck would the dwarves be able to flee him?

The Laketown is right there. Even if the dwarves bolted and fled back to blue mountains the moment he left, he would still return back in time to torch them while they are trying to flee.

Also, are you seriously suggesting that Smaug would fucking carry the dwarves? His actions are completely in character. Despite all the efforts of the dwarves, they couldn't harm him for shit, so now he will spite them by killing off the humans who had aided them, knowing that the dwarves can't do anything to save the town, or even themselves.

>> No.29096904

>>29094606
>Why?
There is no alternative.
It cannot be stopped, it cannot be contained.

>> No.29096927

Am I the only one who think it's strange that 50 Orcs can infiltrate an elf kingdom?

>> No.29096929

>go watch movie with sis
>asks what I thought of it
>complain about it pretty much being one extended action sequence against the same group of orcs
>"yeah but you can't just have a movie about the journey, you need constant action"

>> No.29096939

>>29096902
But the dwarves are greedy ruthless bastards that dont care about Laketown.

>> No.29096943

>>29096801
>Elves can be mary-sues all they want but the other races will inevitably have the last laugh.
Just like Kili did after he put his arrow in Legolas' girlfriend's quiver, amirite?

>> No.29096944

>>29096902
They were able to evade him just in the fucking mountain. Outside, with cover to hide from air pursuit? If we're going to play by "Smaug as portrayed in the movie", it is absolutely reasonable to assume the dwarves would've been able to get away.

>> No.29096953

>>29096841

Yeah, and?
Completely in his character. He wants to taunt Bilbo. The Dwarves can't do shit to save themselves from his perspective. He will kill the humans that helped the Dwarves because Bilbo cared about them, and then come back to kill the Dwarves.

>> No.29096954

>>29096889
Aren't those numenor, however?

As in, not standard humans by any means?


On top of that, MAGIC WEAPONS AND ARMOR AND COCKS from what little remember.


Legoland has a moderate sized recurve and a couple of knives.

>> No.29096959

>>29096927
My thought as well. Especially since Gandalf warned the dorfs that the elves were fucking crazy and had eyes everywhere.

>> No.29096961

>>29096943
heheheheheh

>> No.29096964

>>29096570
Because he's mad that they used his dragon boner against him.
Go watch that scene again where they hit him with the gold. Before it turns into a goddamn tidal wave of agony you can clearly see that Smaug pops the biggest Dragon Boner over the gold dwarf statue. And then the statue pops like a zit and burns the shit out of Smaug.

And now Smaug is super pissed because the dwarves just destroyed a cool awesome new addition to his hoard just to spite him. So now he's going to destroy something they care for to make himself feel better. Like a child throwing a tantrum really.

>> No.29096971

>>29096927
Yea they kinda were no farther than 100 feet of the palace. And they got into Laketown quite easy too. I guess it is some kinda Sauron sorcery. But that is a crap out I would say.

>> No.29096977

>>29096927

I had more of an issue with fucking elite elf guards getting taken down en masse, whereas all these dwarves who used to be blacksmiths and shit are kicking ass throwing hammers at each other.

That said, I liked the movie. Not perfect, but you can't expect too much from hollywood when they have to spoonfeed the ass masses who rage on Tumblr for a movie not having female/black characters, apparently.

>> No.29097003

>>29096953
They infiltrated and outsmarted Smaug at every turn inside the mountain and he is just going to leave them there? Ok...

>> No.29097005

>>29096954

Hurin and Turin are from First Age, predate Numenor and thus longevity/whatever Valar granted to Numenoreans.

People of Dale like Bard are descended from non-numenorean peoples of Rhovanion.

>> No.29097010

>>29096977
>He thinks the people who rage on tumblr about not having female/black characters are 'the masses'

m8 you need to spend less time on the internet and more in the real world

>> No.29097030

>>29096959
The elves were obviously struggling to keep check on everything. That's why there were spiders all over the place.

>> No.29097041

>>29096964
That's exactly the problem. This is a centuries-old motherfucking dragon, who conquered the whole goddamn mountain. To portray him as so childish that he'd just leave the dwarves to have their way with his precious hoard and go throw a childish temper tantrum is stupid as fuck.

>> No.29097042

Women.
Why do they always need those goddamn love triangles?
Why can't they just enjoy a new female character kicking ass and taking names?
Why the need to pollute it with unnecessary romance/cheating drama?
Answer me.

>> No.29097045

>>29096260

I was making an introspective, self-pitying joke there, but I agree. Kinda sad, but hey, it's got to make money.

>> No.29097054

>>29096939

But Bilbo does.
Bilbo royally pissed Smaug off, if you didn't notice.
He is doing what he does out of spite.

>>29096944
Except Erebor is extremely cramped environment for a fucking Dragon, with convenient, fire shielding stonework everywhere.

Thinking that the Dwarves would have more cover outside is fucking retarded.
Outside, with Smaug actually airborne, they wouldn't be able to flee from him at all. He could hunt them down like animals.

Use some common sense for Christ's sake.
Smaug's actions are completely in character. He is evil, and spiteful, and in his mind, the Dwarves are completely at his mercy, which is why he can afford to go torch the laketown, just to spite Bilbo more.

>> No.29097063

>>29097030
that would mean that it's more likely to see the orcs because they already have patrouling guards etc.

>> No.29097074

>>29097005
>first age
Doesn't this make them even more ubermenschen?

Tolkien had a hardon for age.


>dale
Skilled archer.
Took hard shot.
Hit.

See, that's on the "not mary sue" end of the scale.

If it was
>dale
>good archer
>shoots smaug in the eye while doing a backflip and screaming "FUCK THE TEMPLAR"
I'd have a problem with it.

>> No.29097078

>>29096308

There are two things I wish were instant b& on 4chan: mentioning fedoras outside of where they are actually relevant, and calling any comment that's even slightly non-conformist as "bait."

Just shut up, he has a different opinion. YOUR comment in the one pissing me off.

>> No.29097089

>>29096882
You really don't like Assassin's Creed, man. Calm down. I don't think Peter Jackson even knows what that is.

>> No.29097092

>>29097041
Dragon Boner.
They BURNED his DRAGON BONER with the thing he loved the most.
What the fuck makes you think he's going to be rational after that?

>> No.29097094

>>29097054
A dragon is not going to turn his back on a group of dwarves 20 feet away while in his treasure horde no matter how spiteful he is.

>> No.29097095

>>29097042
They don't, Hollywood just thinks they do.

>> No.29097106

>>29096337

I love elves... the ones in LOTR look wicked feminine, mostly due to tightshirts / glitter / long hair. Seriously have you niggas heard of ponytails? I mean, dayum!

>> No.29097107

>>29097003

I hardly say that they outsmarted him. Just used the environment to their advantage.
The place was cramped as fuck for Smaug.
Though, I agree that the chase scene could have been way better.

Finally, that doesn't change the fact that the Dwarves are still at his mercy, from his perspective at least. It's not like they can steal his shit and flee before he gets back from destroying the laketown.

>> No.29097130

>>29096401
Well sometimes it's good.

I have a story about an empire on a giant planet falling, and the character's love interest is the only thing that gives him hope in a world falling apart and being overrun by the evil thing humanity has turned itself into. But when they put romance in a movie that doesn't need it, that SUCKS.

>> No.29097138

>>29097092
The fact that earlier in the movie we see his stomach turn molten red when he shoots fire, which implies that his scales dont give a fuck about being heated up by molten gold.

>> No.29097143

>>29096944
>Outside, with cover to hide from air pursuit?
They'll get torched if they step outside the mountain. There were places to hide and duck down, in there. Outside he has the whole of the sky to move around in, and he can still track them down with smell.

>> No.29097145

>>29097054
I don't think you understand what I mean by "cover". It's not like Smaug can systematically torch every square foot of the surrounding countryside -- he has to FIND them. Giving them a few hours' head start to get out with all the treasure they can carry, they'd easily be able to slip away, keeping out of sight of aerial pursuit.

The one who needs to use some common sense is you. Smaug may be spiteful, but above all else he is GREEDY. He's not going to risk letting them steal from his hoard just to pull some spiteful stunt as revenge for...them trying to steal from his hoard.

>> No.29097149

>>29097106
>dwarf detected

>> No.29097156

>>29097089
Then why the fuck did half of hsi latest movie reek of it?

It's either asscreed, or him watching too many parkour videos on youtube.

The fight scenes were shit.
I don't mean shit as in "DIS LOTR SCENE IS UNREALISTIC" but BORING.


THE FUCKING COMBAT WAS BORING. no tension, no drama, nothing interesting happens, ever.
Compare that shit ot the LOTR films themselves, and tell me it's not a massive fuckup for the sake of "mary sues also we want tweens to watch it so make it stupid."

>> No.29097169

>>29096665

It was put in because Peter Jackson heard of the friendzone and decided to indulge what he thought was a "cool modern thing" when in fact it was a huge cringefest.

Fuck legolas, you kicked a fucking Mumakil's ass 40 years from now, go get your girl and shoot your dad in the face. This shit makes no sense.

>> No.29097174

>>29097063
And their patrolling guards were missing things even before the orcs stopped by.

>> No.29097178

>>29097074

First age humans had no special powers, and in fact the First Chieftain of the First House of Men did nothing particularly special except contacting elves for the first time and later dying at 93 which showed elves death by old age for the first time.

>> No.29097185

>>29096882
>stupid, illogical shit that looks cool.

>Dwarves kneeling midcombat so another can jump off their back
>Thorin's branch somehow block massive weapon swings with ease
>Bombur wrecking everyone's shit with that barrel-rolling scene

yeah, sure is only elves doing that shit

>> No.29097186

>>29097143
Smaug may have a damn impressive sense of smell, but I rather doubt he'd be able to track the dwarves by smell from the air with anything remotely approaching the precision necessary to find them for aerial torching.

>> No.29097190

>>29096149
and they should be mocked. anyone who goes into such a frothing rage over an extra character and a black extra deserves to be mocked until they hide in a hole and die of dysentery.

>> No.29097197

>>29097094

Why?
Again, what the fuck could the dwarves actually do to his hoard?
Absolutely nothing. They have no time to flee from him. It's not like it will take hours for Smaug to fly to Laketown, burn it and fly back.

He is an arrogant and spiteful fuck, who is at least in his own mind, perfectly in the control of the situation. The Drarves are as good as dead. They can't do shit to him, or his gold. At most, they could take some of it and then die as he hunts them down after he returns from destroying Laketown.

>> No.29097199

>>29097107
>the Dwarves are still at his mercy
Smaug as a non retarded dragon would have killed them

Smaug as a retard with severe ADD would go destroy the town they down give a shit about and leave them to do whatever the fuck they wanted with his gold.

>> No.29097201

>>29097145
>Giving them a few hours' head start to get out with all the treasure they can carry, they'd easily be able to slip away, keeping out of sight of aerial pursuit.
1. Gold is heavy
2. Smaug can fly while the dwarfes can only run on their little legs
3. Smaug is a dragon so he has a pretty good eye-sight and smell

>> No.29097208

>>29096323
>>Cut half of the riddles in the dark
>>Cut most of the Mirkwood
>>Cut most of Bilbo and Smaug

Yep, the flaws certainly don't flow from the source material being stretched too thin, they flow from the added irrelevant bullshit.

>> No.29097216

>>29096717

I lol'ed at younger Legolas being older-looking than older Legolas. You think they could have done a bit better on the makeup there. But meh. Maybe LOTR elves age in reverse now that they're drawing with crayons all over the canon.

(I'm just kidding, PJ did a good job balancing the story with "modern audience movie industry demands" shit)

>> No.29097222

>>29097185
No, but not every single scene of them fighting was that idiocy.

They actually stabbed the spiders, at least. With swords, even.

>> No.29097236

>>29097145
>Dragons have eyeballs but no noses.

>> No.29097249

>>29097208
>cut all of Beorn's stuff
what a buzzkill

>> No.29097263

>>29097145

Except that there is nowhere to fucking hide outside of the mountain in hundreds of miles. It is just rocky cliffs and barren terrain that Smaug destroyed when he arrived.

And the Dwarves would have, at best few hours of a headstart, during which they would have to somehow find a hiding place in this barren desolate land.

Smaug is confident in his status as the master of this realm of his. Because of this, he can afford to spite the Dwarves some more, before ending them.

>> No.29097269

>>29094728
I don't know, I get a sort of giggle out of the thought of a tall as fuck elf wanting to get down on some dwarf. It's hilarious what happens when tall people try to fuck small people, I know firsthand

>> No.29097274

>>29097138
So you missed Smaug screaming about how it burns and oh god oh god get it off?

>> No.29097277

>>29097216

I rationalized it as Legolas being soft and fat in Mirkwood. It'd be after the events of the third movie that he'd get his act together and stop being so pampered.

>> No.29097293

>>29097197
>Spite spite spite spite spite
The dwarves dont give a fuck about laketown. Bilbo does but can barely see it. You must acknowledge this point before we continue this conversation.

>> No.29097299

>>29095958

God I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that, it looked like something from a late 90's music video.

>> No.29097301

>>29097186
Why not? Other animals can track by smell with incredible precision, and all he needs is to get it just right enough to incinerate them in a square kilometer of fiery death.

>> No.29097302

>>29097222
>not every single scene of them fighting was that idiocy.

Neither with the elves

>circling the group with a fuckton of archers instead of 'disarmshot lelelelelel'
>legolas getting beat the fuck up when confronting azog's son

>> No.29097316

>>29097169
How could anyone think friendzones are cool or modern? They're just a shitty fact of life, nothing more.

Actually, I'd be somewhat OK if it was just some random beta elf boy. Beta elf boy loves elf girl, elf girl gets mountain fever and runs off with alpha dwarf. Primitive, but can work.

But not motherfucking Legolas. He's the motherfucking prince, and a great fighter to boot. He doesn't even need to get the girl, he'll just pat Kili on the back for tapping that pussy, and then go score three prettier elf girls for the night. Because that's just how he rolls.

>> No.29097319

>>29097249
>>29097208
This is just saddening.

>> No.29097329

>>29097199

Again. What. The. Fuck. Could. The. Dwarves. Have. Done?

They can't flee. They can't steal his shit. At most, they might defile some of it. It is perfectly in character for a powerful, self absorbed and arrogant being to play with his victims and spite them some more, because he, at least in his own mind, is in total control of the situation.

In essence, Smaug is like a cat, playing with't it's prey.

>> No.29097334

>>29097190
If you hate LotR that much why even watch it? Why cheer over people shitting on something you don't like just because you don't like it?

You tumblr pieces of shit sure are spiteful.

>> No.29097341

>>29097190
I hope they add some characters when they remake Moby Dick or The great gatsby or some other wellknown classic, I mean what's the big deal? Maybe Captain Ahab had a qt3.14 fisherwomyn onboard who wanted to kill him for raping her mother or something, and plot his downfall together with the whale?

>> No.29097357

>>29097263
>spite the Dwarves
How so? It cant be by destroying laketown because they down give a fuck about that shit. They care about gold. Smaug knows of the power of dwarvish greed and would never think that they would care about a town of men while they are surrounded by one of the biggest piles of gold in middleearth.

>> No.29097377

>>29097277
>>29097216

Just look at him, he looks like a different person.

>> No.29097380

>>29097269
firsthand?

>> No.29097388

>>29097299
It's like Peter Jackson shat gold foil and glitter in my face. Pls draw this.

>> No.29097412

>>29094669
Elves and dwarves often became friends in Tolkien's stories. The elf Eöl was taught the dwarven language Khuzdul, for example, and the dwarven king Azaghâl gifted the Dragon-helm of Dol-lómin to the elf Maedhros.

The strife between the races was due to the murder of Thingol, but even then it was mostly distrust that occassionally thawed. The outtright contempt for each other that these two races so often have for each other and is so often claimed to be copied from Tolkien were actually, much like most other clichés credited to him, not created by him but by later writers who tried to reinvent the formula without being particularly well-read on icelandic sagas.

>> No.29097416

>>29097293

>The dwarves dont give a fuck about laketown

Yes, and?
Smaug is doing it to spite Bilbo.
What does it matter if Bilbo doesn't see the town?
He will still know that Smaug will destroy it.

And there is absolutely nothing Bilbo, or the Dwarves, can do to flee his wrath when he decides to finally kill them, at least in his mind.

>> No.29097420

>>29097319
>basically no songs at all
>cut out all of bilbo's character development except one line of loldon'tgotolaketownpls right before smaug gets covered in cheese
>spend a lot of time playing up the one ring, when it really was just a ring at the time
Not going to fault the actors for this stuff, but the script is fucking atrocious.

>> No.29097424

>>29097329
>Spite
I dont think you know how smart Smaug was portrayed as.

>> No.29097442

I've always liked alt-histories and different dimensions where other components have affected life, such as magic, or another evolutionary chain.

I'm just not good at sitting down and writing out a good homebrew.

>> No.29097454

>>29097420
>spend a lot of time playing up the one ring

That bothered me a bit, but not as much as Gandalf seeing firsthand that the Necromancer IS Sauron for sure. I mean, why the fuck would he still be having doubts about the nature of the enemy at the start of Fellowship, then?

>> No.29097458

>>29097357
Smaug doesn't know the dwarves don't care. He knows that the Dwarves were carrying weapons made by men, that Bilbo is a part of their company, and that Bilbo cares about laketown.

It's perfectly reasonable that Smaug would extrapolate that the dwarves thus cared for Laketown as well. Which make his impromptu decision to turn laketown into a pile of ash out of spite more reasonable. After all it's not like he pinned done the dwarf and proceeded to ask them how their days have been going.

>> No.29097466

>>29097416
>Spite trumps a dragons greed and protective instinct over his horde.
No.

>> No.29097469

>>29097454
Because Peturd Hackson cannot into continuity.

>> No.29097472

>>29097424

In the book, or the film?
Because truthfully, it has been many years since I read the book, so I don't remember exact details.
However, in the movie, his behavior was mostly consistent, and acting spiteful towards a bunch of weaklings who from his perspective, can't harm him in any way, seems entirely in character for him, and doesn't go against anything I remember from his portrayal in the book.

It's not like you can't be arrogant, intelligent and spiteful at the same time.

>> No.29097496

>>29097454
oh, oh oh! Another thing. Originally he always planned to leave them at mirkwood and go investigate the necromancer. Instead we get the shocker of OH ITS THE RED EYE I HAVE TO GO.

Shoving in all those prophecies and talk of war just.. took away from the journey.

>> No.29097497

>>29097458
>They care about gold. Smaug knows of the power of dwarvish greed and would never think that they would care about a town of men while they are surrounded by one of the biggest piles of gold in middle earth.

Im going to keep copying this until you read it at least once.

>> No.29097504

>>29097454
Did he have doubts about the enemy's identity in the first LotR movie? I can't remember he did.

>> No.29097507

>>29097458
Actually, three (?) dwarves still are in Laketown, so I guess they should care at least a bit.

>> No.29097511

So... what do you think will happen to Tauriel in Part 3?

>friendzones Legolas and fucks Kili, dies in the final battle together with Kili, they have a romantic double death
>friendzones Legolas and fucks Kili, Kili dies in her arms, she still friendzones Legolas and sails to the West since nothing can match the glorious dwarf cock
>friendzones Legolas and fucks Kili, Kili dies in her arms, she fucks Legolas since "it was just a phase"
>is torn between Legolas and Kili through all the movie making Jackson cut more shit to make place for the love triangle
>friendzones both and fucks the orc
>kills Smaug

>> No.29097521

>>29094819

>The camera zoomed straight onto the one black woman in the crowd.

>> No.29097524

>>29097454
Probably because at the battle of five armies Necrodick is going to show up, get rekt, and seemingly lose what little foothold he was using to fuck with middle earth. Thus granting just a tiny shade of plausible deniability.

>> No.29097529

>>29096778
>no-tension, assassins creed inspired shit.

But it felt.... so....awesome.

IDK, what would have made it more tense? less stunts? Legolas did get knocked down fighting that one orc. And he was out of breath

>> No.29097540

>>29097466

Why not?
Again, his hoard is in no fucking danger at all.
The Dwarves are as good as dead to him. They can't steal anything, nor can they flee.

He is in the position where he can do what the fuck he wants, and if he wants to spite the dwarves who dared to disturb his slumber, and mock him, he can damn well do that.

He is a sapient fucking being after all, who isn't completely bound by some instincts. Logically, there is absolutely nothing the Dwarves can do to him, or his horde. Thinking that Smaug would be unable to realize this, is downplaying his intelligence.

>> No.29097546

>>29097472
>It's not like you can't be arrogant, intelligent and spiteful at the same time.
Greed. Dragons and dwarves are reknown in the LoTR universe for their greed, and would do nothing to endanger even the shittiest of copper vases.

>> No.29097557

>>29097511
>is torn between Legolas and Kili through all the movie making Jackson cut more shit to make place for the love triangle
ding ding ding. Kili and her probably both die in the battle and we'll get a long shot of legolas being sad.

>> No.29097562

>>29096943
>after he put his arrow in Legolas' girlfriend's quiver,

Uhhh.... that's not gonna happen.

What the fuck would a "dwelf" look like anyway?

>> No.29097567

>>29097497
I think he mainly did it to punish Laketown for helping the Dwarves and to spite Bilbo in particular.

>> No.29097568

>>29097334
i like lord of the rings plenty. its retarded that people would get mad over a few changes, when film is inherently a diffrent medium. you cant remake a book all that accuratly because that would be fucking awful on film. also, iv never bin to tumblr in my life you buzzwording sack of shit.

>> No.29097572

>>29094794
>equality nazis
>equality
>nazis
This is not the timeline I was born in.

>> No.29097578

>>29097511
>>friendzones Legolas and fucks Kili, kills Smaug to save her new fuckbuddy (haha fuck you Bard), saves Kili in the Battle of the Five Armies, and sails off to the West with her new Husbando.

>> No.29097589

>>29097521

There were a couple of black people, and some brown people as well.

>> No.29097592

>>29097521
So? It had to zoom in on someones reaction. Might as well appease the multicultural crowd that has ten thousand times more disposable income than the 20 guys who rage fap about nazis on /pol, right?

>> No.29097615

>>29097540
>>29097567
Look here>>29097546

>> No.29097616

>>29097042

Because they wanted something other than murderfest, I don't know.

This is why I long for the day that making a really good CGI movie, with those little dots on actors faces to transfer their movements to CGI characters, and all that, becomes cheap, so making a movie can be a risk again and not have to pass the tumblr-PC-womyn-must-have-a-black-character-even-though-it-makes-no-sense-because-correct-me-if-im-wrong-but-there-were-no-sub-equatorial-kingdoms-to-have-black-people-in committee.

I mean, fucking hell.

Overall, the movie gets 8/10 in my book. I didn't mind the love story, not really a love story, just harmless flirtations. The affirmative action appearances were a bit cringeworthy but who gives a shit? This is fantasy anyway...

>> No.29097632

>>29097562
>What the fuck would a "dwelf" look like anyway?
They are most likely impossible seeing as elves and dwarves are two separate species, unlike humans and elves who are of the same species, biologically speaking, according to Tolkien.

>> No.29097634

People talk about action but I'd watch the fuck out of a movie that was just a comfy journey from one place to another. You could still have conflict, like getting lost or whatever. Man vs nature.

>> No.29097639

>>29097074

Yeah but Legolas and Tauriel weren't doing this to Smaug, they were doing it to a bunch of orcs and goblins.

They could have just done it without the acrobatics (more like Legolas in LOTR) and it would have achieved the same effect, but been more boring to watch. So I won't complain

>> No.29097659

>>29097546

But again, his hoard is not in danger.
Again, what the fuck can the Dwarves do?

Thinking that Smaug would be incapable of leaving his horde, when anyone with half a brain can deduce that it is in absolutely no danger, because he is so greedy he can't stand that the dwarves who he will kill in about 2 hours, might fondle his gold a bit during that time, is downright insulting to his intelligence.

>> No.29097661

>>29097412
Eol's whole character is to be an exception. I don't remember the other story, need to brush up on my Tolkien lore.

In the original Hobbit books, elves and dwarves hate each other so much, they almost fight each other before the orcs arrive.
In LotR, Legolas' and Gimli's friendship, and Gimli's courteousness towards Galadriel are presented as great positive changes.

In the LotR movies it was also, iirc, portrayed fine, as an analogue to real world people overcoming their racism and prejudices with true friendship and respect.
In the Hobbit movies, it's an analogue to a white girl getting jungle fever to spite her racist daddy (okay, here: bf's daddy)

>> No.29097689

>>29097511
>Legolas and Kili friendzone Tauriel

>> No.29097713

>>29097659
>Dwarves cannot throw shit off the mountain or down holes where Smaug cannot get to it
Ok guy, if you say so.

>> No.29097716

>>29097562
a hobbit

>> No.29097738

>>29097615

>muh greed.

So you are pretty much saying that Smaug should have been an overprotective retard, who can't leave his gold for a moment, despite the fact that he is in total control of the situation, and that the Dwarves can't do anything at all?

If there had been a giant army just about to blunder Erebor, leaving to destroy Laketown would have been illogical indeed, but there are under dozen dwarves there, and one hobbit.

They can't do shit to his horde.
His horde is in absolutely no danger. He is free to do whatever he pleases, for he is in control of the situation. He may be greedy, but he isn't fucking stupid.

>> No.29097746

>>29096570
>Why, WHY did he just leave the dwarves to go to Laketown when he had them completely at his mercy? It makes no fucking sense whatsoever. Everything up to that point, I could've maybe dealt with, Scooby-Doo chase sequence and all, but when he just decides to go full retard and take out his irritation on Laketown INSTEAD of the very source of his irritation which he now has every opportunity to turn into so many chunks of charcoal...

He didn't have them at his mercy. He was covered in molten gold and had to actually flee the mountain and take to the air.

They'd been trying to escape from him for the past 20 minutes. The chances that they would be sitting right there when he came back is very slim.

"Fuck these things, I'm gonna go after some easier prey," is likely what he was thinking.

Which is more or less what happens in the book. He tries and fails to get them and decides to take it out on the city.

And they gave him FAR LESS trouble in the books. They didn't make him chase them around or cover him with boiling metal.

>> No.29097750

>The dwarves don't care about laketown

Rember the dwarves who stayed back?

>> No.29097771

>>29097659

It's also consistent with how Tolkien wrote his dragons.

When Turin and his band started killing Glaurung's orc minions enough, he left his hoard in Nargothrond and started razing the countryside himself to get rid of human and elf presence in the area. Especially notable because Glaurung could not fly and thus had to be away for long.

>> No.29097773

Speaking about the Tolkien's works the songs he wrote were beautiful. And cause its a cool song

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=song+of+durin&sm=3

You were thinking it was "I see fire" right?

>> No.29097787

>>29096811
Except sneaking around is too slow for his action movie. I mean, LotR2 had one of the largest army fight action sequences, and Jacko needs to make hsi movies line up (1 - lots of boring walking, some fighty; 2 - lots of fighty, some boring walking; 3 - lots of fighty, no boring walking).

>> No.29097788

>>29097634
Shit, most of the problems they face in the book are a result of them running out of food. Just toss on some comfy music, bring back the singing.. I'd watch the fuck out of that movie.

The hobbit isn't really about fighting at all.. until the very end at least.

also for what it's worth GW did a better job at designing the necromancer. That bit where he turns into the pupil of the red eye was fucking comical

>> No.29097808

>>29097738
The dragons were always portrayed as paranoid about their gold. Even one thing missing get them crazy. So yes, tolkien had dragons that were over protective.

>> No.29097816

>>29097156

Well how would you make it more interesting, smarypants?

>> No.29097824

>>29097616
>Because they wanted something other than murderfest, I don't know.
Adventure, discovery, hardships, friendship building, stealth action, thrills, interpersonal drama, even non-love-triangle romance – and some fights, too, of course. It doesn't need to be a choice between all-fights-all-the-time murderfest and fucking love triangles.

>> No.29097828

>>29097661
>In the original Hobbit
The Hobbit wasn't intended to be part of the world as The Silmarillion, originally. It was much later that Tolkien made the decision to try and work it in.

>In LotR
It is said that Legola's and Gimli's friendship is abnormally strong, but other than a rocky start there's little to indicate that there was any greater enimosity between the races. Well, other than Gandalf's remark at the Council of Elrond, but that can hardly be used as an argument for the relations betwen elves and dwarves to be any worse than the relations between any other non-orc races given how big of a theme betrayal is in Tolkien's works.

>the movies
Yeah, I'm not gonna argue about what goes on in them. I can't stand them myself.

>> No.29097829

>>29097713

So the only argument against leaving for few hours to punish the humans who aided the Dwarves, and to spite Bilbo, is that the Dwarves might defile an insignificant amount of the treasure of their people?

I fail to see that as an convincing argument.
To me, a dragon who will destroy a whole town because the folks who pissed him off passed trough that place, is far more imposing and threatening villain than one that is pretty much an overprotective collector, incapable of leaving his horde for even just few hours, due to a fear that something might happen to it.

>> No.29097830

>>29097750
Smaug doesnt know they are there.

>> No.29097860

>>29097420

I have to agree with EVERY one of your points. At least they had another song for the credits, even though it sounded a bit poppy. I got my little brother the CD for xmas, hoping to listen to the music again soon.

Yeah fuck the Sauron foreshadowing shit. That's not showing, that's telling.

>> No.29097889

>>29097661
>Legolas' and Gimli's friendship

One of the things they got perfectly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFIPE1SFE_I

>> No.29097901

>>29097824
That's not how modern blockbuster movies are made anon. Go back to film school.

>> No.29097903

>>29097511
>>29097578
>friendzones Legolas, fucks Kili, fucks Bilbo, fucks the rest of the dwarves, fucks Gandalf, fucks the white orc, fucks the rest of the orcs, fucks Thranduil, fucks the rest of the elves, fucks Bard, fucks Radagast, fucks Gollum, fucks Smaug all at the same time
>Legolas just watches in disbelief

>> No.29097915

>>29096497
Sigh, here we go. Silmarillion wasn't written by the man itself, it was compiled from an enormous ammount of unfinished material by his son.

During the whole life time all that stuff was made, the man's vision of what a balrog is, changed many times. In the early days when he wrote that about them that is in silmarillion, they were basicly proto orcs, bigger than men but not much so, and very many of them.

Not this huge demigod fire shadow being we have in lotr. This idea of balrogs being these big nasty fuckers is something the man had changed his mind about, much later. He had also decided balrogs were rare as ffuck, at most 7 had ever existed. Of course this invalidates his own previous work. Until he would have gone back to sort it out. except he never did. And his son didn't think it was right to change it on his own.

So no, elves never fought Balrogs in single combat. They fought balrogs, the rank and file early versions

>> No.29097922

>>29097828
>Gandalf's remark

Never listen to Gandalf, he is always full of shit and smoking that thing the hobbits give him.

>> No.29097933

>>29097903
That would actually made the movie better.

>> No.29097939

>>29097788
Why don't you love Sauron?

>> No.29097944

>>29097738
>total control of the situation

I don't think we saw the same movie.

>> No.29097962

>>29097915
> So no, elves never fought Balrogs in single combat. They fought balrogs, the rank and file early versions
Except Balrogs wreck Ungolianth's shit even before elves was born.
The thing Melkor himself was incapable of.

>> No.29097981

>>29097922
And he's also a demi-god/angel who helped shape the world.

>> No.29097983

>>29097933
>implying Brazzers isn't making that better movie right now

>> No.29098001

>>29097939
because he looked like a goofball in the movie.

>> No.29098007

>>29097962
yeah, well there were fucking many of them.

seriously nigger, did i just not say his idea of what a balrog was, changed many times? It's inconsistent. It's unfinished. It was never published with his consent. Try wrap your head around the fact that it can't be taken as canon as readily as his finished books.

>> No.29098009

>>29097944

How exactly, wasn't he in control, at least in his mind?

The best the Dwarves managed to do, was to spite him by destroying the massive gold statue and covering him molten gold (which didn't seem to even harm him that much.)

Again, the Dwarves were in no position to harm him, steal shit, or even flee.
How were they not, completely at his mercy? How was he not, in a position where he could do whatever he wanted, even if that was to go fuck up the Laketown, just to spite Bilbo, and punish the humans for giving aid to the Dwarves? He could just come back to finish of the dwarves later. There was nothing they can do to save themselves, at least in Smaug's mind.

>> No.29098024

>>29097983
>Brazzers
>not Dogfart
>everyone in the list is portrayed by a ghetto black man

>> No.29098050

>>29098007
>It's unfinished
It was his wish that Christopher would finish and publish the book. And seriously, if anyone had any insight into what Tolkien considered canon and printable it'd be his son who had been involved in the stories since pretty much the beginning.

>> No.29098096

>>29098050
Yeah, and his son published it in such a state that it contradicts itself/other of his material. Deal with it. Don't pretend that it doesn't

Elves don't fight Balrog's in single combat. They wail like little girl's. They bust serious balrog ass though according to his earlier work.

>> No.29098112

>>29098009

>How exactly, wasn't he in control, at least in his mind?

The dwarfs were still alive inside of his lair. Did you somehow miss the several attends to burn, eat and kill them? Or how he say how he will not relinquish a single coin in his hoard? After finding a thief inside your house you don't immediately leave the house to beat down the thief's friends while THE THIEF STILL INSIDE THE HOUSE!

>> No.29098121

>>29097469
>Peturd Hackson

I think that's a bit uncalled for

>> No.29098122

>>29098096
Because early generations elfs/Finwe's bloodline elves were uberelves.

>> No.29098128

>>29097529
It actually coming across as a fight.

We were basically watching ye-olde duck hunter, but with goblins for ducks, a bow for a light gun, and legolas as tauriels stupid, eager to please doge.


Outside of the boss fight (because we were watching a video game, I swear to fucking god, complete with "oh shit boss, better get my GOOD weapon I haven't fucking bothered to use at all out"), I don't remember a single orc parrying, making bodily contact with, or even really making a serious attack on legolas. At no point did I think "oh shit, he might even get wounded/have to run away."


He just ran up, and orcs started dying.

That's not a fight. It's not even action, any more than watching people get gassed is.

>> No.29098137

>>29098009
>>How exactly, wasn't he in control, at least in his mind?


He spent twenty minutes trying to eat them, and the BEST he had managed in that time was a moutful of melted gold that made him actually retreat.

And the Dwarves are still alive.

Clearly, killing them is not as easy as he thought. He took the entire mountain with less effort than he's exerting now.

>>How were they not, completely at his mercy?

The fact that he had just spent all that time chasing them and they were still alive and he was flying through the air trying to get gold off of himself is a prety clear indication that he couldn't just kill them on a whim. He had been trying- to his best abitilites- to kill them for some time.

>> No.29098145

>>29097689

This is the best answer because it made laugh out loud.

>>29097716

Does that mean .....?

>> No.29098160

>>29098122
No because balrogs were a lot smaller, common and weaker then.

Like fuck, man, you're arguing with his son's words himself.

>> No.29098162

>>29098121
if we were riding off of RotK I'd agree with you, but the hobbit movies have.. not been very good.

>> No.29098187

>>29098112
>The dwarfs were still alive inside of his lair. Did you somehow miss the several attends to burn, eat and kill them? Or how he say how he will not relinquish a single coin in his hoard? After finding a thief inside your house you don't immediately leave the house to beat down the thief's friends while THE THIEF STILL INSIDE THE HOUSE!

If I spend a half hour chasing a thief around a house, but he tosses a pot of boiling water in my face, forcing me to run outside where I see he has a getaway vehicle outside being guarded by his unsuspecting best buddy, I might be inclined to go after THAT guy instead.

>> No.29098191

>>29098112

Except again, the thieves are as good as dead.

They can't flee from him.
He can taunt them further, before finally killing them.

I have made my point many times already in this thread.
There was nothing illogical about Smaug's behavior, unless you consider him to be gold obsessed and over protective to fucking ridiculous degree.

To anyone sensible, it is pretty clear that there is nothing the Dwarves can do to his horde, or to save themselves when he finally decides to end them, at least from his perspective.

This argument has been going nowhere for way too long. It pretty much boils down to how over protective you think Smaug should have been regarding his horde.

>> No.29098208

>>29097824

People usually classify the first 3, and 5th thing you said into "action" and lump it all together. Not saying you're right, just that it's true of a lot of people. My English teacher got pissed that there were "too many battles" in my fantasy story; despite the fact that there was also character drama, etc.., and a lot of it came out of the fighting. Each battle had a result in characters: but no, it wasn't one of the fucking pussy books he made us read and write essays on, so it sucked. A LOT of people feel this way. They would say the interpersonal drama in the Hobbit (which is good, IMO, and the movie did an okay job of bringing it out) was just thrown in as afterthought, and the movie was made to pander to these faggots.

I'm kind of talking out of my ass now, but my main point is that I agree with you.

>> No.29098214

>>29098191
it's hoard.

>> No.29098228

>>29098122

Yes. Tolkien btw never changed Gothmog the head Balrog getting killed by elf in single combat once he had written it.

And crying like liddle grill because of a Balrog is maybe fit for youngblood like Legolas, but Fingolfin fought Morgoth himself.

>> No.29098229

>>29097828
>Yeah, I'm not gonna argue about what goes on in them. I can't stand them myself.

But then why are you in this thread? And have you seen any of the movies?

>> No.29098263

>>29098228
That's my point dofus. He never changed his older outdated works.

>> No.29098264

>>29098229
>But then why are you in this thread?
Because I enjoy Tolkien's books?

>And have you seen any of the movies?
I've seen the Ring movies, I do not feel the need to ruin The Hobbit for myself in the same way.

>> No.29098272

Anyone else was bother by how they blame Girion for failing to killing the dragon while every other dwarf got kill before getting close enough to try?

>> No.29098282

>new female oc arrives into established canon
>shows excellent fighting skills
>tells off the almighty asshole king
>the handsome elf prince hero falls in love with her
>the most handsome of the dwarves also falls in love with her
>both fight for her attention
>the handsome elf prince hero loves her so much, he almost just does what she says
Dare I say... Mary Sue?

>> No.29098289

>>29098137

We don't see much of the actual fight when he conquers the mountain.
But from the parts we do see, the dwarves are trying to hold him back in combat formations, and failing at that, whereas when he chases them around in the second film, the Dwarves are using the environment to their advantage, in order to avoid being killed.

They can't keep running from him forever inside Erebor, and if they leave the mountain, they are even more vulnerable, as they loose the advantage the cramped (for Smaug at least) interior of Erebor gives to them.

Also, for emphasis, he is still in control from his perspective. He might have underestimated the dwarves, but despite their best efforts, they only managed to piss him off more. At no point, was he really even in danger. The molten gold didn't seem to do shit to him when I watched the movie.

>> No.29098324

>>29094606
>why Tauriel?
To liven up an otherwise atrocious movie. The movie is a complete pile of dogshit - to the point where I actually prefer the 1977 Rankin & Bass animated movie.

1) Timing. The push for this movie, even more so and more frenzied than the last is OH GOD MORE ACTION WE HAVE TO MOVE FASTER. No, chucklefucks, you don't. The constant push to keep the action going just makes the movie exhausting and unbeleivable rather than keeping the tension up. In the books and the old movie, they spend WEEKS in Mirkwood. They comb the side of the mountain looking for the entrance for DAYS. It completely strains beleivability that they could trudge through a fuckhueg forest like Mirkwood in a day or two, then find the secret entrance in a fucking afternoon.

2) Unecessary horseshit. We don't need to have the dwarves chased by orcs to Beorn's hut. We don't need to have an unneccesary love triangle with two dwarves and an elf. Legolas doesn't need to show up. Orcs don't need to attack Laketown. Fili or Kili or whoever doesn't need to be poisoned. There doesn't need to be a huge action sequence of dwarves fighting elves and orcs from inside of barrels. The Dwarves don't need to have an action sequence where Smaug chases them like a fucking Scooby Doo villain. Thorin doesn't need to make a speech from a giant molten gold statue of his daddy. We don't need to have long sequences where the dwarves get to show how fucking amazing they were and introduce villains that the movie doesn't need.

>> No.29098341

>>29098324
3) Minimalization of THE FUCKING TITLE CHARACTER. The Movies is called the Hobbit, but he gets to do precious fucking little. He's the goddamn hero! The story is about him going from useless homebody to sneak-thief rogue, and these movies have thus far abeen about stealing his thunder and giving him some much less interesting accomplishments instead. Riddles in the Dark are foreshortened. The credit for finding out about the troll-hoard goes to Gandalf. Bilbo doesn't pick up a weapon, Gandalf hands him one. Bilbo doesn't Sam Fisher his way around the prison for a month while he figures out where the dwarves' stuff is and then breaks them out flawlessly. Bilbo isn't the only one to not get captured by spiders, the only one armed when he breaks them out. He doesn't riddle with Smaug from the comfort of invisibility, followed by Smaug sensibly deciding that since he can't find the invisible Lakeman, he's just going to burn his town to ashes.

4) Christ, that CGI. You know what's great about Lord of the Rings, and the first Star Wars trilogy? Practical effects. Yeah, CG and green/blue screens are used, but by and large they used practical effects, and we can fucking tell. The Uruk Hai are infinitely more threatening and scary for being real than orc Capt. Hook and the Wall-eyed wonder ever are at any point in the film. It's especially jarring during that one scene where Wall-eye grabs Legolas from behind. Despite being made years later and with more effects, the movie looks worse.

>> No.29098348

>>29098263

Gothmog's slaying or Fingolfin vs Morgoth are not outdated because no later contradicting version exists.

>> No.29098355

>>29096167
>Tumblr radfems and SJWs are the most vocal, true. But they don't matter in terms of money revenue.
The problem is you are assuming movie execs and other produces are aware of this. They are not. See, the problem with loud, obnoxious groups is that they appear to be a larger population than they actually are. They also tend to be over represented in polls because they are so obsessively focused on being pandered to that they go to, and speak up in, every single focus group/poll they can.

The brain dead movie/game execs make all their decisions based on what polls and focus groups tell them.

It is the same reason so many people think gays are more than 10% of the population, and receive so much pandering, when in reality they are barely even 2% and the revenue they bring in is negligible.

Do no underestimate the wide reaching effects loud groups can have, because they can convince the majority there is a much bigger problem than there actually is.

>> No.29098361

>>29096339
>>29096377
Kronor in Swedish. Still crowns in English.

Hence, DKK (Danish crowns) and SEK (Swedish Crowns).

I'd love for them to be renamed Credits, but it's probably not going to happen.

>> No.29098363

>>29098214

True.
Not a native speaker, and it's over 2 am here so cut me some slack for not remembering the exact word.

I have been arguing about Smaug's behavior in the movie long enough.
I should probably get some sleep.

In any case, the stuff I read about this movie on here and on /v/ painted it as some sort of horrible abomination, which turned out completely untrue when I saw it.
Most of the stuff being bitched about is blown way out of proportion, or it about some minor details or irrelevant shit, just as it almost always is.

I liked the movie, and I seriously don't get the amount of hate it receives.

>> No.29098367

I sit firmly in the 'not giving a fuck' camp.

Sure, my viewing experience would have been the same without it, but I didn't feel that it really detracted from the classic story, it just clearly needed to be inserted to garner interest of mundanes in the film so it could be produced in the first place.

Wait until the extended 'true to Tolkien' cut of the trilogy is released in 4k and enjoy.

>> No.29098372

>>29096416
You can see the look of bewilderment in Christopher Lee's eyes as he is talking with Magneto, Agent Smith, and Colonel Spalko in the Hobbit 1 as he realizes PJ has gone off his meds.

>> No.29098386

>>29098289

Just saying that for someone used to being able to toss aside entire armies without flinching, having to be admit that you underestimated a handful of dwarves and may have to actually put up some effort to eliminate them is a pain in the ass.

It's like playing a videogame where you're dominating and hitting a frustrating area. It's not like you won't eventually get past it, but fuck it. It pisses you off and you get to the point where you'd rather go do something else to relieve stress and come back to this pain in the ass later.

>> No.29098409

>>29098324
put her parts in it are also atrocious....

>> No.29098445

>>29098348
You dumb piece of shit. We've already covered this. He 'DIDN'T redo his older stuff. That doesn't mean wasn't going to. He changed his mind about what a balrog is. This is irrefutable, just as it is irrefutable that the earlier balrogs were not the same beings as those in lotr. This means that the old story is not compatible with Lotr. DEAL WITH IT.

>> No.29098466

>>29098324
But how did Tauriel "liven up" the movie?

>> No.29098471

>>29096438
CGI Legolas surfs things to death.

It didn't even make them Mary Sues. It made them into gimmicks.

>> No.29098493

>>29098162
Nah, outside of the battle scenes LotR was pretty bad too. Jackson got so much shit wrong it is not even funny.

>> No.29098513

>>29098409
The fact that she is there is reprehensible. However, as far as the overall work goes? Her parts in it are some of the better parts in the whole movie, and in a movie where a dude is supposed to riddle in absolute tension with a fucking dragon, save his mates from giant spiders, and escape from jail in some barrels, the fact that none of those events outshine some simple character bits with an OCplzdonutsteal elf waifu just shows how shit the movie in that this addition actually makes the movie less shit.

Her insertion is entirely unneccesary, but if there was no OC at all, the movie would be even worse, because at least her acting and the whole 'can't let evil go' parts are decent. Legolas is wooden as fuck and the love plot makes the addition even MORE atrocious, but the core idea of 'new character, non-isolationist wood elf' is good, and her acting is good.

>> No.29098537

>>29098341
Capping this for posterity. God this fucking series, what was jackson thinking.

>> No.29098548

>>29098513
>Her parts in it are some of the better parts in the whole movie

The fuck they are. Fuck of you fucking twat.

>> No.29098578

>>29098537
Dosh

>> No.29098600

>>29098445

He changed his mind on what a balrog is, but in no way does that invalidate Echtelion or Glorfindel killing Balrogs. And unless you are going to claim Fingolfin vs Morgoth is non-canon, an Elf having the courage to duel a Balrog is not far-fetched in any way.

That's all there is to it, control your butthurt!

>> No.29098615

>>29098537
I love how it sets out to explain Tauriel, then never addresses her at all.

>> No.29098627

In Tolkien's last writings, the Last Battle has resurrected Turin killing Ancalagon (who either isn't killed by Earendil or respawns) and not Melkor as his final deed in Arda.

>> No.29098635

>>29098600
But they're not killing Balrogs. They're killing balrogs. As he wrote them then. You can never get around this fact.

>> No.29098653

>>29098615
I can't really blame him. It's just a big mess.

>> No.29098748

Anyone has that image with Saruman calling bullshit on Gandalfs shenanigans and saying Radagast is a deadbeat stoner.

>> No.29098789

>>29097216
Well they can't de-age him in real life and PJ was insistent about the whole "Hey remember me from the good movies" aspect of the movie.

>> No.29098824

>>29098789
Why didn't Jackson just make the Hobbit movies good?

>> No.29098847

>>29097442
You've said this sixty times already and it still isn't relevant to this thread. Are you some rl autist who can't into human interaction?

>> No.29098867

>>29094702
Then again, just because you add in a female character does not mean you need to add in a love triangle as well, just saying. If it's an appeal to internet feminists, it's a very poor one.

>> No.29098871

>>29098548
Stop thinking that I'm saying that OCdonutsteal elf waifu is good. She's just *less bad* then a lot of the other shit in the movie, and her ACTRESS is good.

The whole movie is dogshit, her included, but she's entertaining and interesting to watch. Her sideplot with dorf romance is triple dogshit, but her acting is good. Bard started off interesting and kinda tapered off into STEROTYPICAL FAMILY MAN REBEL pretty quick.

Really, Benedict Cumberbatch and Stephen Fry have the best acting in the movie, and when your best actors are a disembodied voice and a one note side character, you've done something wrong.

>> No.29098954

>>29097592
You tumblrites really love to talk about /pol/ especially in threads where /pol/ was never mentioned at all.

>> No.29098955

>>29098871
Thranduil was alright. But he's not really a big role either.

>> No.29098958

>>29098867
Broad. Fucking. Audience. Which. Does. Find. It. Appealing.
Has been said over and over already, nobody gives a shit about internet feminists.

>> No.29098968

>>29098871
Dude there's some genuinely fine moments in the film (not many though) and none of them have her in it. Her acting in here was nothing special.

And this is coming from someone who would eat her plastic ears if she asked me to.
We agree on all the bad bits tho

>> No.29099017

>>29098537
I'd check my computer for viruses (or turn off the plugin that highlights MtG card names?) then recap it.

>> No.29099032

>>29098748
Here you go

>> No.29099058

>>29097592
It was handled very, very awkwardly, making it stand out and therefore register as a race thing.
There's an actual color contrast between crowd shots and close ups. Which makes it look like most of the close ups *focused* on the, what, two darker faces.
Having more variety to begin with would've solved the issue is what I'm saying.

>> No.29099177

>>29097592
But the multicultural crowd is just broke acne-covered college students who'll pirate the film anyways.

>> No.29099296

>>29096430
>Goblin town and the freaking barrel scene are the worst offenders.
>Didn't like barrel dwarf
>Didn't like shanty town free running

Damn nigga, those were the most creative parts of both films. Literally every person I spoke to about the movies picked those out as the most memorable moments. Mother. Fucking. Barrel Dwarf.

>> No.29099526

>>29099017
it's the card name one. Give me a second and I'll get a clean cap for you.

>> No.29099630

>>29099017

>> No.29099737

>>29098537

What a shitty post to save. Of all the fucking things to complain he complains the movie is paced too quickly. The one legitimate complaint you could make with no arguments is they didn't need to pad shit out so much and this chucklefuck is complaining about it breezing through mirkwood. Fucking inane opinion.

>> No.29099840

>>29098615
>I love how it sets out to explain Tauriel, then never addresses her at all.
You're right anon, I got distracted bitching about the movie and forgot to come back around to my point.

So the point is, you've got this big colossal fuckup of a movie, and Tauriel is really just thrown in there to be Ms. Elftits. She's there to 'liven up' the movie by giving lady viewers the 'love story' which they supposedly need to be engaged in a movie, and give dude viewers something female to drool/fap over. It's just as fucking dumb as the rest of the movie - no more, no less.

The true 'why' of Tauriel, and ever single one of these changes is Hollywood. Jackson's made all these changes at the sacrificial altar of Hollywood - huge action sequences! Bilbo's not actiony, so make action sequences with the other characters! CGI is cheaper, use it more! Fill the movies with more material so we can get more movies! Needing a love story and elftits is just one more Hollywood change.

>> No.29099884

>>29096037
>elves, dwarves, and dragons

>> No.29099929

>>29099737
If they hadn't padded every action sequence and added in extraneous shit, they could have afforded time spent showing that they got lost in Mirkwood, and Bilbo playing Solid Snake in Efltown.

the pacing issue is that the Hobbit reads like your standard D&D adventure. Shit happens, then you journey some more, then some new shit happens, then you journey some more, than new shit happens. The movie crams all the events so close together that there is no 'journey some more' It's SHIT IS HAPPENING ALL THE TIME HOLY SHIT LOOK AT THIS SHIT' It's exhausting and is fucking terrible.

Pacing is a legit issue with the film, and the whole reason it HAS pacing issues is that they tried way to hard to include extra-canon elements and pad fight scenes rather than just tell the goddamn story.

>> No.29099983

>>29099929

Nobody wants to watch nothing happening in Mirkwood for fuck sakes. It didn't need to be 3 films at any rate, nevermind cutting the action to have more time for aimless wandering of woods. Thank fuck clueless retards on 4chan don't get editing jobs.

>> No.29100304

>>29099983
I'm not asking them to spend more minutes on Mirkwood, I'm asking that they use time wisely to establish breaks in the action. Have you watched the 1977 Hobbit movie?

They don't need to spend 30 minutes wandering the woods, doing nothing. A 5-15 minute sequence showing them wandering, getting dirty, losing shit, and being miserable accompanied by Bilbo complaining about shit would be sufficient. they needed to show that they spent sufficient time in the forest to run low on supplies and get desperate. *They don't need to show that in real time*

>> No.29100400

>>29100304
And then you have that great scene where the Dwarves have Bilbo climb a tree to see the lay of the land. Bilbo finally gets to the top of the tree and sees an unending sea of green and innumerable butterflies flying around.

It made a great contrast to the dark and dreary Mirkwood.

>> No.29100484

>>29099983
I do wish they included the part where the dwarves are tricked and tempted to wander off the path by feasting elves. It reeks of Nordic mythology and I think it adds something important to the feel of elves to set them apart from boring D&D elves. You can't deny they cut out a lot of quality, engaging bits that would have been awesome to see onscreen in favor of cuckold elf womyn hijinks and generic fight scenes with orcs that shouldn't even be there in the first place.

The the feel of adventure and wonder is largely cropped out (though I admit they nailed it with the visuals of Mirkwood, everything involving the Elvenking, and Smaug at first) and replaced with typical Hollywood bs. It was written as a goddamn children's fairytale for christ's sake, but they made it all grimdark and heavy like LotR. Thorin and Co. weren't originally noble warriors reclaiming their birthright, they were little more than a band of greedy vagabonds who wanted to plunder the ruins of their home. Thus calling Bilbo a burglar.

>> No.29100545

>>29100400
>And then you have that great scene where the Dwarves have Bilbo climb a tree to see the lay of the land. Bilbo finally gets to the top of the tree and sees an unending sea of green and innumerable butterflies flying around.
Meh, who cares about breathtaking landscape scenes nowadays
Better excise that to make space for dwarf cuckoldry

>> No.29100694

>>29099630
Now with an actual conclusion!

>> No.29100743

>>29100484
They never intended to pander to the child audience anyway.
Their intent was to pander to LotR movies' fans. Not books' fans, mind you, movies' fans. Mostly female fans (especially Legolas fangirls). Thus the result.

And I'm afraid it'd be even worse if they did decide to pander to the child audience. It'd be 3 movies full of Radagast.

>> No.29100780

>>29100743
But most LotR fans were livid when they saw the Hobbit movie.

I'd have been content if it went either one way or the other: if it went full child's fairytale mode (and they should have kept Del Toro if they wanted to go that way) or if it went full LotR serious mode (and Jackson should have consulted Lee on EVERYTHING if they went that way).

Instead we got some kind of halfway abomination.

>> No.29100812

>>29100780
>But most LotR fans were livid when they saw the Hobbit movie.
>most

[citation needed]

>> No.29100816

Is LotR/Hobbit big in Japan?

I hope some hentai artist will draw a NTR doujin with Tauriel ahegao

>> No.29100823

>>29100400
>>29100545
Did you guys see the movie? They included that.

>> No.29100888

>>29100780
Read carefully. I said "LotR movies' fans", not "LotR books' fans". Mostly that kind of LotR movies' fans that doesn't really care about the lore, and just remember that huge fantasy blockbuster they fanboyed/fangirled over when they were a teenager.

Actual LotR fans weren't amused, but as has been said, the execs are sure they will buy tickets anyway.

>> No.29100944

>>29100743
I know, and I'm saying that's the problem. But even the LotR films were closer to the books than the Hobbit 'Trilogy'- I know Jackson can do better than Scooby Doo dragon chases and black peasants in the Northlands. I don't know why he would make such a downgrade in quality. If you think about it, movies that stick closer to the source materials tend to be more successful in general than heavily changed ones, so why would directors try to do SJW crowd control in the first place?

>> No.29100993

The outright hate people here have for the movie is really freaking weird for me.
It is praised almost everywhere else, and outside of some minor flaws, the movie was excellent in my opinion too.

But the way people shit on Jackson, and the movie here makes it seem like it had been a fucking horrible film, when it was nothing like that.

I do acknowledge that it had some issues, like the elf chick and forced romantic triangle, but I fail to understand how that could ruin the movie for someone.
The artistic liberties Jackson took probably can turn off people, but expecting him to make the films into 1:1 translations of the book is pretty dumb, when the book itself was aimed for children, and had drastically different tone to the Lotr books.
Jackson obviously was gonna portray the story more in line with his earlier movies.

>> No.29101004

>>29100944
I forget, where in the Hobbit did Tolkien specify what skin color everyone in Lake-town had?

You know, Lake-town, formerly the trading capital of the North, where men from dozens of cultures mingled?

Sorry, I know the answer is "he didn't". I'll see myself back to tumblr or wherever you think I came from.

>> No.29101035

>>29100944
>I don't know why he would make such a downgrade in quality.
Because he stopped consulting Christopher Lee.

>so why would directors try to do SJW crowd control in the first place?
Because Lee wasn't there to slap his shit and say "No you fucking retard making a good and faithful film is more important than pandering to an insane movement that will be dead in a decade or so anyways".

Sure, he did a tiny bit of acting, but he wasn't lurking around through the entire production like he was with LotR.

>> No.29101173

>>29101004
Please name any black people that Tolkien told us about in any of his writings, besides orcs.

Oh, that's right, you can't, because there weren't any. Certainly none anywhere remotely near the north of Middle Earth.

>> No.29101209

>>29101004
Middle Earth is based upon European cultures, and from what we know from Tolkien's descriptions, people from Middle Earth look like Europeans. There are nonwhites in Tolkien's world, but they're from Rhun and Harad, but they probably aren't quite friendly enough with the people of Middle Earth to trade with them, let alone move in next to them. I mean, they do join forces with Sauron to destroy the world a few decades after The Hobbit.

I'm not a /pol/lack, stormfag, racist, or anything else you might think I am. I just think it's bullshit to fuck with an author's canon and put totally out of place races in a village based on fucking Vikings. I don't think you're necessarily from Tumblr, I just that you don't know what you're talking about.

>> No.29101251

>>29100823
Not they didn't. They marched through a grey and orange forest, they had a couple scenes were it looks like they're having a drug trip, the dwarves argued a bunch, Frodo decides to climb on his own, looks over the tops of the late stumn trees and says, "Hey we just gotta head over there. Then there's a pratfall with a spider.

As opposed to multiple scenes and narration about how the black and grey forest is terrifying, they can't see shit, can't navigate for shit, and then they decide to send Bilbo up, and while it's pretty and a break to remember not everything is shit, he can't see anything except butterflies and green leaves. Then later on, they're captured by spiders.

It's not the same.

>> No.29101358

>>29101035
>Because he stopped consulting Christopher Lee.

This shit is serious. Christopher Lee takes his shit seriously when he acts. Anyone remember The Last Unicorn? Lee was the villain there too, and he showed up to record with a copy of the original book and told the director 'These lines should not be cut.'

Christopher Lee is a fucking hero and more actors and actresses should be able to call directors on their shit.

Incidentally, The Last Unicorn was made by the same animation studio that made the 1977 Hobbit film.

>> No.29101540

>>29098513
>>29098548

The man(?) isn't really wrong. It never occurred to me, but after finding AUJ somewhat underwhelming, and DoS much better, that it might actually have been Legolas and Tauriel. Along with Gandalf. As a story the Hobbit never really gripped me; up until seeing the badass Thranduil actually is, and such, I wasn't particularly impressed with the new trilogy. Perhaps, rather than looking forwards to the battle of Five Armies, i'm actually looking forwards to seeing the Elves cutting loose? And the situation at DG of course.

Also, i'm not quite sure where everyone is getting Legolas being a beta/bitch this time around. Frankly, he is more badass than his future self. He doesn't seem to really give a shit that Tauriel is chasing Kili, as he demonstrates by listening to her reasonable (albeit manipulative) reasoning about letting darkness get stronger, and then proceeds to leave her in the dust as he becomes the fucking terminator. Not of this pansy D&D Elf shit; he brawls with a Orc (Sub)Warboss until its backup arrives and it fuckign runs away, while he wipes the blood from his nose.

I agree, however, his surfed waaay too many orcs.

>> No.29101584

>>29101540

From now on, I pretty much imagine that all Eldar aspect warriors focused around melee combat fight pretty much just like the Elves in this movie did.
Surfing on enemies included.

>> No.29101987

>>29101540
>Also, i'm not quite sure where everyone is getting Legolas being a beta/bitch this time around.
Because he obediently does what his beloved woman tells him to, while she chases after dwarf cock

>> No.29102073

>>29101987

It honestly didn't come across that way to me. I got some irritation, as is normal when cockblocked, and then I saw the fairly cold at this point (heir to a badass throne) Prince of Mirkwood go to town on the evil his people had thus far been ignoring. He never once glances back after Tauriel after she stays with the Dwarves, getting on a horse and chasing the mofo who escaped.

We'll have to see how it plays out, but i'm hoping Tauriel does just have a little stone-fever, and will realize her fuckup just in time to die dramatically.

I don;t see how it's all going to lighten Legolas up for LOTR though, as really, a few decades don't usually mean much for Elves.

>> No.29102182

>>29102073
I'm sure her dorf husbando will be mortally wounded in the battle of 5-armies, Legolas will find him, and he'll make him promise to take care of Tauriel. Tauriel goes home to bone Legolas and billion fangirl hearts break.

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