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[ERROR] No.29061019 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

So... Games Worship is again being somewhat inconsistent in their own fluff, or at the least Black Library is. I personally like my Elves ageless, if not immortal, as it is a large part of their charm.

I admit I never liked that in the 'Path' books Eldar age, and are able to die of old age. Pheonix Lords went from being ancient warriors, to the souls of ancient warriors dwellign in their armor, and possessing others. However, Eldrad always stood in the way of that particular interpretation, being around pre-Heresy, of not from the Fall. However, him being the Eldar's most potent pysker but into question whether it was his biology or ability that kept him around.

Now, we have Illic Nightspear, who despite having white hair, looks rather typical for an Eldar, and just as spry, despite being a 'simple' ranger whom has traveled the galaxy for an undefined thousands of years.

So... what the hell? I'm going to go with the idea they are as ageless as Tolkien Elves, as can be interpreted from Eldrad and Illic.

>> No.29061472

>>29061019
>Pheonix Lords went from being ancient warriors, to the souls of ancient warriors dwellign in their armor, and possessing others.

No they didn't. Even in 2E when they were introduced they were sapient armour, like little Avatars in concept. The reason being that despite being ageless warriors, sometimes they get pounded to shit by the big guns before they can do anything useful, so the wraithbone spends a few decades growing back from a thumbguard or something and some unlucky bastard finds the suit and puts it on.

Nightspear's travels have been in the Webway, which fucks with time and I think in some of the fluff rejuvenates flesh as well.

Ulthran's age and the crystallization thing that was happening to him was implied by the context to be the result of not dying and also being a Farseer for 10,000 years. I guess that's what prolonged warp contact does to Eldar.

Sure a lot of it's open to different readings, but there are different things humans today do that age them at different rates, so it would be weird if Eldar were unaffected by work in that respect despite clearly being affected by it on eg Craftworld paths.

>> No.29061590

Most eldar are white hair naturally - just die it usually
Certainly modern art even for high elves suggests the same
Also the agelessness effect seems to be related to time spent in the webway and illic spends a lot of time there while more sedentary eldar don't so would age
Btw ffg is even worse - there is a harlequin who was around during the war in heaven

>> No.29062017

Don't at least farseers turn to crystal or something?

>> No.29062426

>>29062017
Eventually, yes.

>> No.29063344

>>29061019
Eldar have been noted to have a natural lifespan of ~1000 years in every codex except the 3e one. That's a constant.
Same with the Phoenix Lords. They were always walking suits. The soul gestalt is what gives them their immense power in the first place.

Eldrad was probably prolonging his life via psychic powers. In 3e Craftworld codex we see him in a short story where he witnesses Ynnead forming, wonders if he'll live to see the god awaken*, and then makes a resolution that he cannot let go of mortal life while he still has business to attend.

*Yes, back when Ynnead was introduced, the precondition wasn't that all Eldar must die for it to awaken, just that enough souls must gather in the Infinity Circuits to give Ynnead strength to defeat Slaanesh. So the Eldar had reasons to fight on. As it is now, it's retarded - why don't they all just kill themselves if the only mentioned condition is that ALL Eldar die?

As to Illic, I don't know and I don't like him. He doesn't fit with the established fluff, especially given how Carnac books portray him. But maybe his hair is just silver in colour, instead of going grey?

>> No.29063572

>>29063344
So, being a Dark Eldar is better? Because there are a lot of them that have lived far more than 1000 years.

>> No.29064246

>>29063572
It turns out pain is delicious, nutritious, and extends lifespan to absurd levels. So, cheers.

>> No.29064386

>>29061019
>Pheonix Lords went from being ancient warriors, to the souls of ancient warriors dwellign in their armor, and possessing others.

They've been that since their inception. The only thing that changed was they went from shrineless exarchs that wander the webway to being much more important figures in Eldar history and worshipped as demigods. In fact it was the author of the Path series that originally just had them as the oldest exarchs and Based Kelly made them more important.

As for Eldar aging, sources differ. BL also has Harlequins that are supposedly millions of years old. It's only farseers that turn to crystal.

>> No.29064399

>>29063344

It says they live for over a 1000. Not that that's the average lifespan. Seeing as the majority of named Eldar characters have been around for thousands of years with some kicking around since the Fall.

>> No.29064423

>>29063344
>So the Eldar had reasons to fight on. As it is now, it's retarded - why don't they all just kill themselves if the only mentioned condition is that ALL Eldar die?

Maybe you should read the Iyanden book? Only one sentence in the main 6th ed suggested it was that they all needed to die, which was almost immediately retconned in Iyanden.

>> No.29064854

>>29063572
>So, being a Dark Eldar is better?

Sure, I mean if you want to live forever as a pain-vampire that is suffering a constant, gnawing hollowness from Slaanesh supping on your soul... than that's much better.

>> No.29065077

>>29061472
>which fucks with time and I think in some of the fluff rejuvenates flesh as well.

Only for the Dark Eldar with their addiction for pain.

Illic is an ancient.

>> No.29065176

>Alone of all her peers, Nuada recalls the face of that which slumbers beneath the surface of the dead worlds of the region, for she looked upon it when last it stirred. She knows what is soon to awaken, and she knows the steps that have been taken to ensure the powers that hold sway in the galaxy remain in balance, though each will suffer undreamed of destruction in the process.

-Outer Reach

The sleeping thing beneath the dead worlds is no other than a sleeping Neron Dynasty.The Harlequin lady recalls its ''face'' when last it stirred. I think that would make her very old.

>> No.29065303

>It is said that the Eldar Farseer known as the Voidsinger is impossibly ancient, even amongst a species known to be all but immortal. Erandel has battled the enemies of the Eldar across countless thousands of worlds across the entire galaxy, from the boiling galactic core to the silent, night-haunted Halo Worlds and beyond. She is said to have witnessed sights that would blast the sanity of even the most strong-willed of her peers, and to have conversed with beings of such utterly alien consciousness that they barely comprehend the existence of even the highminded Eldar. It is said that the Voidsinger was there when the Eldar fell, and that she foresaw the rise of the Imperium of Man. Certain lines in the few Eldar mythic cycles known to human savants even suggest she has trodden the sacred ground of Holy Terra, though none who have ascertained this fact would dare propagate it, for fear of being burned upon the pyres of the Ordo Hereticus. Most of these tales are in fact true, while countless more unbelievable truths are yet untold.

>Beneath her Farseer’s raiment, Erandel Voidsinger’s flesh is already transforming into crystal. Yet, the strand of fate that would lead her back to her craftworld to the crystal glades grows weaker with each passing day, while that which leads towards the Outer Reach grows stronger. That path is as yet convoluted and winding, and its ultimate destination unseen, yet Erandel follows it willingly.


We got the confirmation of the oldest Eldar ever. 10K+

>> No.29065605

How is it bad for them to have natural biological lifespan?

>> No.29065622

>>29065605
They are Elves.

Spess Elves.

>> No.29065671

>>29065303

Where did it say she was the oldest? A bunch of Eldar have been around since the Fall. That harlequin in the above post has been around to see awake Necron dynasties.

>> No.29065709

>>29065671
Oldest normal Eldar, I assumed.

Harlequins and Dark Eldar don't count as normal Eldar for obvious reasons.

>> No.29066025

>>29064854
You know that dying peacefully of old age on your craftworld to then go to slaanesh to get raped forever is not better, don't you?

>> No.29066052

>>29065709

How is a farseer more normal than a harlie? Other way around surely seeing as farseers turn to crystal. Also, Eldrad is as old being said to be well over 10,000 years old. He was head of Ulthwe even during the heresy suggesting he might be even older than the fall.

>> No.29068630

>>29065605

Because its boring. It dilutes them, not only from their basis, but it also renders them effectively effeminate, point eared humans that are light on their feet.

The fact the youngest of Elves is typically hundreds of years older than a human character is part of their atmosphere. That they have usually seen Empires come and go. Give them a lifespan, and suddenly that's fucked.

At least that's how i've always felt. same deal as having vampires age, as has also become popular in recent years.

>> No.29068675

>>29066025

Isn't that why every Eldar has a soulstone, so that their soul gets put into an Infinity Circuit and that doesn't happen to them?

>> No.29068726

>>29066052
Because Harlequins are influenced by an actual god?

>> No.29069002

>>29068726

He doesn't do anything to their age though. I don't think Khaine is making aspects live longer either.

>> No.29071855

>>29061472
>always they get pounded to shit by the big guns before they can do anything useful

Fixed that for ya

>> No.29072049

>>29071855
>>always they get pounded

Hot.

>> No.29072542

>>29068630
But eldar are still typically hundreds years older than average human.

>> No.29072822

>>29072542

I like me some supple elven cougars.

>> No.29076066

On an Eldar related note, what's the Exodite, Craftworld, Harlequin, Corsair and Dark relationship situation like?
Could a Craftworlder in trouble go to Commoragh and plea for sanctuary?
Do Exodites and Corsairs have any contact with anyone outside of their own insular circles?
Can Harlequins really just go where ever they want, protected by some kind of 'don't-shank-the-clowns' non-official law?

>> No.29076070

>>29076066
Hmm, didn't post the picture.

>> No.29076370

>>29064423
The retcon that they all had to die was introduced in 4e. I'm not bashing the new book. That said, I guess I'll have to read the Iyanden supplement if it explains this satisfactorily.

>>29064399
>It says they live for over a 1000. Not that that's the average lifespan.
It says:
>commonly surviving for over a thousand years before old age overtakes them.
To me it implies that the average is around thousand.
>Seeing as the majority of named Eldar characters have been around for thousands of years with some kicking around since the Fall.
Like which ones? I know of Eldrad, but it was explained above. Phoenix Lords are not "alive". Ela Ash'bel in Dark Millennium short story by Dan Abnett was noted to have been a lead farseer of Kaelor for more than two millennia. Then there's Illic in the latest book.
I don't know of any others, and Yriel is explicitly said to be a young Eldar during the Hive Fleet Naga operations.

>>29065176
>The Harlequin lady recalls its ''face'' when last it stirred. I think that would make her very old.
The Eldar used to reincarnate before the Fall. It suffices that in her current life she was born right before it.
But I suspect this is typical stupid GW hyperbole.

>>29065303
>It is said that the Eldar Farseer known as the Voidsinger is impossibly ancient
It is also said that the humans who live good life and hate the Xenos go to sit at the Emperor's side after death. We know that in truth their souls are torn apart by daemons.
Learn to differentiate between in-universe rumours and truth.

>>29068630
>Because its boring. It dilutes them, not only from their basis, but it also renders them effectively effeminate, point eared humans that are light on their feet.
They used to reincarnate before the Fall and now they mourn that loss. They have goddesses representing young age, motherhood and old age, with the crone goddess being explicitly said to be a wrinkled hag.
Making them ageless is against basic tenets of their own background.

>> No.29076401

>>29076066
>Could a Craftworlder in trouble go to Commoragh and plea for sanctuary?
Yes. Rangers are known to venture into the Dark City if they give in to their darker needs.
The Dark Eldar don't treat the Craftworlders any worse than their own. But they don't treat their own very good to begin with, and a lone Craftworlder doesn't have his Kabal protecting him, or a pact with a Haemonculus that allows them to come back for revenge after getting shanked.
The Dark Eldar don't hate the Craftworlders, they just don't respect them and think they're easy pickings. The Incubi are a different case, but they have this weird love-hate connection with the Aspect Warriors.

>Do Exodites and Corsairs have any contact with anyone outside of their own insular circles?
Yeah. Exodites are visited by Rangers often, they trade with Craftworlders and sometimes ask them for help. Corsairs are basically college kids on a gap year, so they're not very insular unless they belong to some esoterical fraternity.

>Can Harlequins really just go where ever they want, protected by some kind of 'don't-shank-the-clowns' non-official law?
Yeah, basically. They recruit from all the Eldar branches too.

>> No.29076412

>>29076066

Just about the only ones who actively despise each other are the Craftworlders and the Dark kin. A Craftworlder could "fall" and join the Dark kin, but nothing the other way around; there is no goddamn way a "former" Dark Eldar is getting anywhere near a spirit stone if the Craftworlders have anything to say about it.

Everyone pretty much leaves the Exodites be, with the Craftworlders showing up to help them out the most, then the Corsairs, and if they're really fucked or the Dark kin are bored, them. I'm pretty sure there was a short story about the Dark Eldar helping out an Exodite world. Though in a Horus Heresy book, a Dark Eldar is being tortured by Exodites, so who the fuck knows.

The Corsairs do as they please and they're not really an identifiable group proper. Craftworld Eldar who go out into the stars along that route are viewed with suspicion because of their chance of contact with their Dark kin, even if those Corsairs flotillas don't harbour any. Dark Eldar who become Corsairs... well, no one gives a fuck, but why raid with those pansy-ass Craftworlders when you can raid with the best?

>> No.29076426

>>29076412
Ummm so you didn't read eldar path where there is a scorpion who is ex dark eldar?

>> No.29076771

>>29063344
I'm pretty sure a similar story was in the 6e codex, actually.

>> No.29076785

>>29076412
Then why on earth did GW make them Battle-Brothers in the Allies chart? Do they just hate everyone else more than they hate each other or did GW just fuck up again?

>> No.29076800

>>29076785
No, that guy's just wrong. Dark Eldar and Craftworld Eldar don't hate each other. They don't particularly *like* one another, but outside of extreme fringe cases, it doesn't go as far as hate. At the end of the day, they're all still Eldar.

>> No.29076819

>>29076412
Path of the Exile features a number of Corsairs who originally came from Commoragh. It's implied that it's a popular alternative for Dark Eldar who want to get out of the brutal infighting and politiking that dominates Commorite culture.

>> No.29077604

>>29072542

Hence why I say minimum, with the majority being many, many times older. The new hobbit for example, Tauriel is the youngest Elf we have seen, and she is nearing a thousand. And she is a PJ mary-sue. Or perhaps his (grand) daughters self-insert.

I know others might not agree, but I personally feel that taking away Elven immortality is a bad choice for a setting that relies on them being ancient often.

D&D started it, i believe, but there it made some sense. Unless Elves age and die before every Elf is 20th level character, everyone would have to play baby Elves or have them be an unplayable race.

After all, there is a reason Glorfindel didn't accompany the Fellowship, and Legolas did little, (and what little he did was sniping Nazgul.) Even, ugh, World of Warcraft found a way around it by having the source of Elven immortality destroyed, and more recently restored (I believe. I don't actually play.)

But in a wargaming setting, in a galaxy and setting that spans tens of thousands of years, there is no reason to hold back. The guardians, civilian militia, having BS/WS 4, high initiative, leadership, and battle focus already works to display how they are more effective one-for-one than even a highly trained guardsman.

Happy holidays by the way, people.

>> No.29077705

>>29076370
>They used to reincarnate before the Fall and now they mourn that loss. They have goddesses representing young age, motherhood and old age, with the crone goddess being explicitly said to be a wrinkled hag.
>Making them ageless is against basic tenets of their own background.

Yeah, I just read more about her. Reincarnation, but not being able to do it anymore sort of works for me. I had forgotten that lore tidbit. I suppose i'll stop knawing this bone, though i still feel aging Elves is a bad idea.

At the least, there seems to be ways around it, in 40k. Do we know exactly what it is that slows aging to the point of it just not happening?

Eldrad is a Farseer and thus destined to be crystal, now he is no longer dead, but it could be that or where Ulthwe is. Illic we could blame the webway, but while he is supposed to know them like no other, that doesn't mean he spent the majority of his long existence int he webway.

>> No.29078375

>>29076370
>>Learn to differentiate between in-universe rumours and truth.


>Most of these tales are in fact true, while countless more unbelievable truths are yet untold.

It implies it's the truth, though!

>> No.29078422

>>29076800
>232.M41 A Dark Enemy

>In the aftermath of a battle on Cullrak, in which the Eldar of Mymeara successfully fight off a daemonic incursion, a huge raiding party from the Kabal of the Fiend Ascendant threatens a clutch of the Eldar’s spirit stones. It is greatly feared that the Kabal will retreat to Commorragh and debase the souls of Mymeara’s dead. With their numbers already considerably depleted from the previous battle, the Eldar of Mymeara have little choice but to command their Spiritseers to unleash the ghost warriors in their defence. The wraith-constructs launch one of the most vengeful strikes in the craftworld’s history and numerous Kabalites and their Raiders are incinerated by searing Wraithknight plasma blasts.

Suuuuuure.

>> No.29080237

>>29077705
That must be the first time I've ever managed to convince someone to my opinion in a 40k lore thread without being called a fag, a retard, etc in the process. You're a pretty cool guy, anon and I wish you all good.

>> No.29080453

>>29078422
So?

>> No.29080476

>>29076066
> Can Harlequins really just go where ever they want, protected by some kind of 'don't-shank-the-clowns' non-official law?
Yep. They are aslo priesthood after all and this helps.

>> No.29081425

>>29080237
You guys are such nicefags! Keep it up.

>> No.29081473

>>29081425
>PLEASE?
>THANK YOU!

>> No.29081529

>>29076066
>>29080476
>He is arguing. A troupe of Harlequins, masks blank, eyes merry. Behind this eldar, behind the Harlequin wait a group of other Outcasts, hidden. Mon-keigh war in the background. Illic argues with the Harlequins. They bar his passage. Illic will not allow them to do so. His resolve is a terrible thing. A living thing. The Harlequins dance. The Outcasts open…

-----------------------

>In another the Harlequins bar their egress, trapping them on Carnac. They do not laugh. They do not move. Illic and his Outcasts die dashing themselves against the bulwark of the Laughing God’s followers.

Bullshit.

Harlequins don't have any special protection or else Illic and his followers would have been scorned and hated in Eldardom or even executed.

>> No.29081820

>>29081529
No, anon, you are bullshit.

>> No.29082209

Speaking of Path of the Eldar books, I recently finished the first and won't be able to get the other ones in a while, and I was wondering do the other books say who wins the battle in the craftoworld?

I assume it's Eldar since this is in their pov, but then they are the Eldar and GW loves screwing them

>> No.29082334

>>29082209
Technically eldar.
In terms of being cool and reasonable, marines.

>> No.29082395

>>29082334
Gav is a funny creature.

>> No.29082429

>>29082209
Never read the Path series but it's referenced in the Carnac series.

A certain young female farseer was credited for insuring the survival of the Craftworld.

>> No.29082471

>>29082395
He has a giant boner for harlequins though.
>>29082429
Yeah, Tirianna.
The funny thing is this stupid bitch is also the one who caused perils for Alaitoc.

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