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28950752 No.28950752 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

It's that time again, bishuaz!

>mfw no DB girlfriend
>mfw no red panda lunar cuddles
>mfw Venus won't show her private garden

>> No.28950783

The last time there was an actual gaming discussion in one of these that I recall it was over whether letting Sidereals learn gods' charms as if they were Eclipse would be busted.

>> No.28950962

>>28950783
Remember, we don't discuss mechanics here! This is the Exalted General, where we argue about semantics and shout at each other over interpretations of purposefully open to interpretation fluff!

>> No.28951013
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28951013

>>28950752
I want to make a Solar character who's straight out of the Ramayana. Half-way through a super serious campaign, I want to suddenly dump all of my essence into thus-far-unused Performance charms to turn a scene into a Bollywood music video instead of the dramatic fight it was supposed to be.

What are the key charms to doing this? What are the charms that, while not key, are still pretty damn important? Stats, specialties, anything to make this dream a reality.

>> No.28951081

>>28950783

Speculation and Anecdotes are always welcome, we don't have nearly enough screencaps pertaining to Exalted.

>>28950962

Am I not allowed to point out that it's possible to create a character with no arms and the Terrifying Mane mutation to beat people to death with his glorious moustache?

>> No.28951094
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28951094

>>28951013
For reference, I want what happens to make this look like a droll and quiet Sunday afternoon:
http://youtu.be/H0LXttjdEn8

I want for it to be such a dramatic twist that my ST gives me a blank look, then grins and helps me narrate First and Foresaken Lion and all of his generals doing perfectly-coordinated dance numbers in suddenly-garish colors as a result of my charms.

>> No.28951256

>>28950752
>>mfw Venus won't show her private garden
> Implying her garden isn't mowed over.

>> No.28951379

>>28951013
>>28951094

After a quick check on Anathema, there doesn't seem to be any charms that end combat or force dancing.

Performance governs dancing, and dancing is a valid performance specialty. This stat, like most social stats, is a caste ability for Zeniths. The Unsurpassed Sanxian from Oadenol's Codex adds two successes to all performance based rolls. For fighting, you might learn Silver Voiced Nightengale Style, which is based on singing instead of dancing, but you'll need to use the rewrite if you do.

>> No.28951413

>>28951379
Is there a way to make a Performance-based social attack at combat tick speeds? If so, could I make said Performance-based social attack be, 'Join me in my performance?'

>> No.28951529

>>28951413
No, but you can play it smartly and make said attack before Combat Time begins.

Call for a pre-conflict negociation, like they sometimes have before battles. When facing the enemy emissary, activate your Social-fu, add in Horizon-to-Horizon Performance Method, and bam.

>> No.28951617

>>28951413

Also, Phantom-Conjuring Performance to "create ghostly images, Essence flares, ethereal music and strange sensory effects" which will turn your song and dance into a cheesy music video complete with ghostly backup dancers.

>> No.28951646

>>28951529
>>28951617
Hmmm, how long is a social combat tick in normal combat ticks? How long would my character need to survive dancing and singing in the middle of a battle before the first social attack is definitely made?

>> No.28951688

>>28951646

Performance based attacks are six long ticks, which is 360 combat ticks. A lifetime, in other words.

>> No.28951768

>>28951688
I see, I see... And how long are the ticks in mass combat?

>> No.28951802

>>28951688
>>28951646
That's what Respect Commanding Attitude is for, bro.

>> No.28951853

>>28951768

Mass combat is measured in Long Ticks, which are about 60 ticks, or one minute each.

>> No.28951877

Speaking of Performance, would a Sexual Techniques specialty (like Anjei Marama's) apply when writing smut?

>> No.28952167
File: 300 KB, 1906x1177, 1385099451195.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
28952167

>>28951802
So, just keep using Respect Commanding Attitude until everyone either chooses to give in to the music or runs out of willpower, then blast everyone with social attacks to join in. Once in that music video, blast everyone with social attacks until I either run out of essence or win the social combat.

So, I'll definitely want to max out Appearance, Charisma, and Performance. I'll take some kind of Performance Excellency, then most of the Solar Performance charms. I'll want to max out my Virtues and Willpower for more motes and surviving social combat, a ton of Integrity, and be an Eclipse so that I can sanctify any oaths or agreements reached.

Suggestions? Ways to secure or save more motes? Ways to make my social attack pools even better? I want Project Bollywood to go off without a hitch.

>> No.28952177

>>28951877
No. Writing is Linguistics.

>> No.28952262

>>28952177
Linguistics only replaces Appearance. Written social attacks are still Presence or Performance.

>> No.28952352

>>28952262

CHA+Ling is a valid roll for letter writing though.

>> No.28952534

>>28952262
Porn isn't a social attack.

>> No.28952575

>>28952534

It totally can be.

>> No.28952645
File: 198 KB, 546x500, Twilight Rider.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
28952645

While we're on the subject of character building; I was wondering if anyone could help me. I'm looking to make a Twilight caste artificer that specializes in Magitech, Power-Armour, and Righteous Devil Style. Can I use Concussive Essence Cannons and Fiery Solar Cannon with RDS? Is Biomagitech worth investing in? Character would kind of be like pic related, using ranged attacks to deal with enemies.

>> No.28952678

>>28952534

Woodblock-printed porn is a valid written social attack I have done in a game.

>> No.28952689

>>28952645
>Can I use Concussive Essence Cannons and Fiery Solar Cannon with RDS?
No. Most of the charms wouldn't have a meaningful effect on those weapons even if you could. Just take Archery with cannon weapons or Thrown with charms that conjure shining energy ammunition.

>Is Biomagitech worth investing in?
No. Take Magitech for the magitech side and Genesis for the bio side.

>> No.28952697

>>28952534
>porn
>not a social attack
>Exalted

>> No.28952719

>>28952534
Tell that to the Ebon Dragon's fetish-inducing charms.

>> No.28952794

>>28952645

You can use artillery with Archery charms, but I don't think that charm extends it into MA as well.

>> No.28952889

>>28952689

SO Aegis Inset Amulets, Skin Mounted Amulets and Bracers of Universal Crafting are not worth it?

>> No.28952965

>>28952889

Skinmounts are great.

>> No.28953913

>>28952645
>Can I use Concussive Essence Cannons and Fiery Solar Cannon with RDS?

Both Concussive Essence Cannons and the Fiery Solar Cannon lack the F tag. Prayer Pieces, Flame Tongue Repeaters, Fuel Rod Launchers, Fire Lances, etc. are all valid though.

>> No.28954017

>>28952697
It's obviously used to power up, not as a direct attack. After a character looks at some hot porn, they're ready to unleash their One Hand Fury.

>> No.28954425

>>28950783
It would be as busted for them as it is for an Eclipse, very. Then it would go a bit further because they have access to a much more powerful collection of deity. Might work out as they ability to take a charm from a god on loan, threat, or as payment though.

>> No.28956990

bump for exalted

>> No.28957055

>>28952645
The Fiery Solar Cannon is fucking terrible. You will run out of essence almost instantly. ITS A TRAP

>> No.28957127

>>28952719
>see tentacle possession incest porn printed on woodblock on parchemin made from flayed human skin
>feel digust
>disgust turns to arousal
>I buy the print and fap to it
>pleasure eventually runs out
>come back
>repeat and buy another
>eventually I can get off on nothing else
>I am a regular
>strange man who owns the shop tells me it'll be Our Little Secret
Fuck, Fiends are like /d/.

>> No.28957144

>>28957127
>have the power to create worlds
>become porn pedller

good job

>> No.28957197

>>28957144
Not just any porn peddler. The platonic ideal of a porn peddler who could sell any smut to anybody.

Like a succubus that sits behind a greasy counter talking shit about Star Wars and looking a whole like like Kevin Smith.

>> No.28957376

>>28950783
Think about what charms do you want to have.
Are those charms busted? (Principle of Motion)
Then letting Sids have them is busted. You can ban those individual charms, though, just like you should for Eclipses that want to bust the game using them.
Are those charms something that is only situationally useful in non-urgent situations? (Like blessing the fields and stuff) Then you're better off building up favours from the gods to get them to use those charms on their behalf than spending a shitton of XP on them.

Is it something cool, not busted and that will get used often? Yes you can allow them to learn it.

>> No.28957534

>>28950752
Well, I got a topic I would like to discuss:

I'm thinking of some canon alterations to give Siddies and Lunars more cred.
I am thinking of getting it from the Contagion-Crusade fiasco, turning it into an actual victory from them.

First, Contagion didn't end by itself. Sidereals stopped it. It was the birth of Citrine Poxes of Contagion Style.
Realm Defence Grid has wiped out most Raksha pretty easily. However, the most powerful Unshaped and especially the Ishvara, Balor himself, were managing to counter it, dissolve it's attacks with their Wyld. This is when the Lunars came in - having regrouped after the initial wave of the Raksha washed over them, they struck at the heart and destroyed the central council behind the invasion.

And a little side bit is that in case player mess with the Dowager at some point, they'll find that she didn't pull the Contagion out of the Well.
She created it before her death and was planning a test run over the East when the Usurpation came knocking. As a ghost, she just dug it out and unleashed it on the world.

>> No.28958680

>>28957534
An interesting take on the idea I suppose, you may want to watch out with that Dowager bit however. It doesn't help the credibility of the Sides and Lunars if they collectively lost their shit over one Solar's pet project.

>> No.28958740
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28958740

>>28957197
>Like a succubus that sits behind a greasy counter talking shit about Star Wars and looking a whole lot like Kevin Smith.
Is it... is it a succubus dressed in fashions similar to a sluttier female Kevin Smith?

Or is it just actual Kevin Smith, dressed like a succubus?

>> No.28958855

>>28958680
It's still better than losing same shit over a dead and diminished Solar's project. Whilst helping to establish that yes, Solars WERE that bad.

And it's not like it's something a solar cooked up over an afternoon. I would put around research journals, of many centuries of experimentation, detailing "beautiful creatures"* of pre-dowager being wiped out by "insidious parasites"**. But in progress they are becoming stronger and more resilient and finally she will make them perfect!

(* - progressively deadly plagues)
(** - people's immune systems)

Perhaps even make that a previous incarnation of one of the players, give them vague memories corroborating the feelings of love for her creations and sadness when another experiment fails to kill everything ever and the beauty dies.

>> No.28960467

>>28958855
It's literally a dead and diminished soldiers pet project. Regardless of the Solars that bad debate, it's just makes the other splats look bad.

One Solar spent a decent portion of her life building a universal "Fuck you" and it was so damn good you needed Elder Sidereals to invent a new reality warping martial art to stop it.

>> No.28960514

>>28958855
>deathlord
>dead and diminished

o u

>> No.28960587

>>28960514
Elder Solar > Deathlord.
(Of course I don't use the retarded raw "all solar charms up to Ess 10" deathlords)

>>28960467
Solar devoted their life to creating a reality-breaking plague. Sidereals countered by creating a reality-warping SMA. I do not see how it makes them weak compared to them being unable to do a shit as is normal canon.

>> No.28960614

>>28960587

Elder Solar < Deathlord.

Always have been.

Always will be.

>> No.28960639

>>28960614
That renders Deathlords completely unkillable by anything. That's shit design.

>> No.28960652

>>28960614
If by "always" you mean "shit-written 2e".

>> No.28960671

>>28960639

I'm pretty sure Multiple Solars > Deathlord.

Or even Multiple Sids > Deathlord

I don't think Faffles could walk into Yu-Shan and live.

>> No.28960700

>>28960671
If he isn't > Elder Solar, yes.

>> No.28960720

>>28960700

No, even if he's bigger and better than a single Elder solar.

Numbers mean a far bit in a fight.

>> No.28960756

>>28960514
Ghosts lose all their exalted charms. Solar ghost is not any different from any other ghost that got old enough. Neverborn are broken down remains of beings that were brought low by exalts, now you're telling that they somehow gained means to empower ghosts to levels higher than the powers that were higher than neverborn's power in life?
Bull.

>> No.28960775

>>28960756
>gained means to empower ghosts to levels higher than the powers that were higher than neverborn's power in life?

Solars (As individuals) were not higher than the Primordials. Solars as a GROUP were but primordial were significantly more powerful than a solar as an individual.

>> No.28960834

>>28960756
> than the powers that were higher than neverborn's power in life?

Stop huffing the concentrated fanboy fumes, dude. Solars are not stronger than primordials.

>> No.28960908

>>28960834
>huffing the concentrated fanboy fumes
No, that'd be you doing.

>> No.28960936

>>28960908
Actually, the developers of every edition have always had deathlords > solars.

>> No.28960995

Can we EVER have a thread without retarded arguments?

Apparently no.

>> No.28961665

>>28957376
>Principle of Motion

Damn charm should just have the Native keyword and patch that particular problem outright.

>> No.28962263

does anyone have any idea when is 3e comming out already?

it's been delayed for over a year now (when I first heard about it it was supposed to come out october last year) and from the KS page it seems they still haven't finished writing the fucking charms even

>> No.28962290

>>28962263

Late 2014ish.

>> No.28962351

I'd like to make a Lunar with a bird totem, and I'm kind of struggling with the Tell.
I don't want to just go with feathers in his hair; which while pretty would work more for a girl character.

>> No.28962375

>>28962263
When it's done, but probably a lot sooner than >>28962290 says.

>> No.28962389

>>28962351
What kind of bird?

>> No.28962414

>>28962351

That was Lillith's Tell.

You could go with feathers on his upper arms.

>> No.28962463

>>28962389
I was thinking some sort of eagle or predatory bird; I'm not familiar with jungle birds aside from parrots though.

>>28962414
That's a possibility.
I was thinking about his hands being all cracked and rough; mirroring the look of bird feet. Or something involving his lips and bird beaks...

>> No.28962938

Birds dont' have lips

>> No.28963095

>>28960587
>(Of course I don't use the retarded raw "all solar charms up to Ess 10" deathlords)
... Uh... What? Deathlords can't use the solar charms they knew in life. They're ghosts. They retain memory of them, and can teach them, because you only need knowledge of them. But they can't activate them.

>> No.28963115

>>28963095
Until you read their write ups that include scene long perfect defenses.

>> No.28963132

>>28963115

Yeah, you're supposed to invuln flaw them.

>> No.28963166

>>28963132
I'm aware.
I'm just listing it as evidence that the deathlords are capable of using their solar charms.

>> No.28963194

>>28963115
Perfect Defences that aren't Solar charms, yes.

>> No.28963593
File: 1.08 MB, 1666x2312, 4479248.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
28963593

My ST wants us to persuade the deathlords back to the light. I'm gonna puke.

>> No.28963630

>>28963593
I love how often that comes up despite there a sidebar saying in no uncertain terms that the deathlords can't be redeemed.
They just had to go and ruin it by saying "but if you want you can do it anyway".
But why would you want to? That defeats the point of the deathlords. How can you redeem an angry soul that exists due to its hatred tethering it to reality with the third circle soul of a neverborn grated onto it?

>> No.28963637

>>28963593

I think that the only way to redeem themselves is to throw themselves into Oblivion. Being CoDs by nature, Conky won't have much to say about the,.

>> No.28963679

>>28963593

Hah, that's one of the possible exits for an Abyssal for mine.

Mind you? She's also more than willing to murder creation if said deathlord wishes her to and she's sure that redemption won't work.

She's not right in the head and just wants what's best for them. Mind you she also talks about the usurpation (The first one, when the Solars turned on the rightful rulers of creation and murdered them without compassion or mercy while the traitors watched) as events she personally went through, not as history (Whispers 5 + Gave up a lot of her own memories for necromancy. There is some serious bleedover)

Spoilers: The Princess Magnificent skinned Six Solars to make an umbrella BEFORE she became a Deathlord. Signs point to 'no' on redemption.

>> No.28963729

>>28963679
>Hah, that's one of the possible exits for an Abyssal for mine.
>Mind you? She's also more than willing to murder creation if said deathlord wishes her to and she's sure that redemption won't work.
Deathknight =/= Deathlord. Undoing the process which converted Solars to Abyssals is ridiculously easy for Lytek to do. The only reason its hard for an Abyssal to do is because its inside someone. The Abyssal trying to redeem himself is like comparing a dirt bath to someone scrubbing something so the top layer of paint is completely gone and then picking off every spec of dirt with an electron microscope and tweezers.
And the Abyssal isn't made of two things which are inherently evil.

>> No.28963777

>>28963630
And even cut off from the Neverborn they probably aren't all that good.
Redeemed? Yes. Good? No.

>> No.28963889

>>28963679
Princess is also one of the Deathlords who wants freedom more than the others. And the Dowager might be able to get it as well, what with the Well being in her possession.

>> No.28963906

>>28963729

No, I know the separation. I'm talking about her wanting to redeem her Deathlord if she thinks it's a possibility.

She doesn't care if creation lives or dies, as long as whichever happens she's standing by the side of her Deathlord.

Or at least gets to kick Faffles in the metal balls on the way down.

>> No.28964131

>>28963729
Redeemed Abyssals are also a terrible player choice; as you twist the roleplay to suit your character's goals, horribly upset the Abyssal game the ST planned or take the spotlight in the Solar game.

>> No.28964167

>>28964131

Only if you have a shitty ST that can't write stories around all your players equally well.

>> No.28964236

>>28964131
>as you twist the roleplay to suit your character's goals
Twist from what?
This is Exalted, everybody has their own, personal epic Motivation. Having them all incorporated is the basis of the game.

>> No.28964705

>>28964236
Turning away from the Neverborn and Oblivion seems like a far bigger achievement than stabilizing Gem or being a Guild merchant-prince.

>> No.28964727

>>28964705

>Than stabilizing Gem

I'm not sure we're thinking about the same Gem, anon.

>> No.28964840

>>28964727
Yes, the same Gem.
The tired trope of Gem always being destroyed doesn't happen in every campaign.

>> No.28964912

>>28964705
yeah, but for one I'd an over arching plot for the character not a specific goal and two Solars don't have to put up with even half the bull shit the abyssal player has to

>> No.28964940

>>28964705
Just because everybody in your campaign thinks small doesn't mean that everybody everywhere does.

>> No.28964950

>>28964236
>everybody has their own, personal epic Motivation

Except for that one asshole who leaves that spot blank because 'muh railroading'.

>> No.28964977

>>28964705

And 'Stabilize and ensure the continuation of the Realm' is above a personal goal like 'Become a solar'.

Not every solar thinks as small as a single city.

>> No.28965062

>>28964950
That asshole gets kicked out and leaves the table faster than a speed-focused Scourge chasing a loving mother.

Seriously, Exalted can't be played with Assholed. It just doesn't work.

>> No.28965078

>>28965062
>Assholed
>-d +s
fuck my keyboard
fuck me for not knowing how to into edit

>> No.28965118

>>28965062
>Seriously, Exalted can't be played with Assholed. It just doesn't work.
Something about Exalted makes people forget the gentlemen's agreement you're supposed to make at the beginning of every game.

>> No.28965195

>>28964940
But that isn't the same.
That lone abyssal's goal has significantly changed the nature of the Deathlord/Neverborn/Abyssal relationship

>> No.28965199

>>28965118
Nah, it's probably asses hearing "HUEG POWER" about it and flocking to their powertrips.

>> No.28965215

>>28965195
>Exalt's motivation enacts significant changes on status-quo
Working as intended.

>> No.28965339

>>28965215
But on a grander scale than becoming some Solar Lord in the East and so on.

>> No.28965394

>>28965339
The "solar lord in the east" guy has problems with scale of his motivation, not the abyssal.

>> No.28965456

>>28958740
Dare you enter my magical realm and find out, anon?

>> No.28965497

>>28965339
That Solar Lord has motivation issues

Remember, Anon, the first thing the Exalted ever *did* was tear down the rulers and creators of Creation.

They were *literally designed* to change the face of the universe,

>> No.28965713

so you guys know of any CMAs that one can use in heavy or power armor? I was thinking of making a character like Hector from fire emblem. Big guy, heavy armor, big axe. I'm flexible on the weapon.

>> No.28965720

>>28952645
>Making a Kamen Rider Exalt
>Not making it an Infernal (or maybe an Abyssal)
Ya dun goofed.

>> No.28965771

>>28965713
What Exalt Type is it you're aiming at?

>> No.28965797

>>28965713
Solar Hero, I think

>> No.28965847

>>28965771
either a solar or abyssal

>> No.28965857
File: 560 KB, 1280x1737, 1341634726127.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
28965857

>>28965720

I was think of combining Power armour with a Skin Mount Amulet to get that Iron Man look. What would you suggest I add?

>>28965713

Here's a list of all MA styles, what form weapons they use, and if they can use armour. Ask your ST about power armour.

http://www.brilliantdisaster.net/dif/ExaltedMA.html

>> No.28965902

>>28965847
Wouldn't Solar Melee and Resistance+Armor do the trick? Is there a particular reason you want to go for Martial Arts?

>> No.28965922

>>28965857
thanks for the list

>> No.28965993

>>28965902
The ST said it would be a heavily Wuxia game so before I stream rolled guys with solar melee I wanted to see if I had other options

>> No.28966025

>>28965902

Solar Melee is such a goddamn messy tree.

>> No.28966045

>>28965993
Fair enough, and very considerate of you!

Would Earth Dragon work for you? It's pretty heavy on the big-ass weapon tanky style. In-style weapons include the Tetsubo and other sledges (I would advise going for a Grand Goremaul, because fuck, a big-ass tetsubo is extremely fucking cool, just be sure to use 2.5 Errata so your Grand Killstick doesn't make you horribly OP).

>> No.28966071

>>28966025
It has anything and everything. But it's cool, because it really allows for tons of concepts without the Melee Character genre, provided you can find your way around it (I suggest Anathema, and a few minutes to familiarize yourself with the tree's structure).

>> No.28966297

>>28966071

It's bloated in some areas and deficient in a bunch of others.

>> No.28966302

>>28965993
The final charm in Celestial Monkey lets you wear armor, use any weapon, and half the strength requirements of oversized weapons. Granted, that is a lot of xp if you are going for a single charm

>> No.28966382
File: 335 KB, 243x324, vitriolmite.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
28966382

>>28966302
And that's one of the tamer reasons not to use Scroll of the Monk.

>> No.28966428

>>28965713
If you'd settle for a big hammer, Earth Dragon Style is for you.

>> No.28966435

>>28966382
>Vitriol

I have a Gold Sid developing and teaching a Vitriolic Dragon Style to undermine the Immaculate order.

>> No.28966457

>>28966071
It's so bad, even Anathema has it messed up - some charms overlap each other on the field.

>> No.28966464

>>28966435

Is it possible to come up with a Vitriol variant of Wood Dragon Claw?

>> No.28966495

>>28966464

The spell? Pretty sure you'd just use Wood Dragon Claw because it doesn't actually matter what element the claw is.

>> No.28966518

>>28966464
Likely. Hell, that's probably the only version of Claws that Infernal Sorcery Initiations would pass. Maybe acidic version of Water, tops, but better homebrew Vitriolic.

>> No.28966574

>>28966382
It's not all that game breaking.
SId MA styles are bad; but the other styles are passable.

>> No.28966615

>>28966495
There actually are different versions. They were published in some WW magazine and could be found on the wiki, but it's dead.

They all allow the same basic points amount, but all have distinct advantages and slightly varied Speed.

Wood's advantage is ability to reshuffle the point allocation on each action (others are set when you cast it)
Fire adds +Essence to it's damage (going over the cap in points spread) and deals unsoakable Essence in damage to anybody you parry with it. On a downside, if you botch with it, it deals it's base damage to you.
Water subtracts your Essence from soak and hardness of your target, unless they are Charm-based
Air: speed 4. For 1 mote it may use your Essence+MA or Occult for it's attack pool, but such attacks don't add strength to it's damage. Not sure if it's ranged or not.
Earth: speed 6. Adds Essence to difficulty of resisting knockback/knockdown with it.

Soo, in my opinion, Fire Claw rocks.

>> No.28966668

>>28966615

OK that's retarded. They should've just given Elemental Dragon Claw the elemental keyword and had it use the standard DB effects.

>> No.28966682

>>28966668
>the standard DB effects.
What are those?

>> No.28966691

>>28966574
It utterly shatters a balance assumption. It's been a bad idea since it appeared in 2004's player's guide. It was in good company with power combat that gave us Essence ping, mail and steel "you wear them" mass combat, and the vast majority of merits and flaws.

>> No.28966704

>>28966615

So what could Vitriol Dragons Claw do? I'm thinking of something along the lines of inflicting poison.

>>28966668

What if non DBs use it?

>> No.28966714

>>28966668
Meh, I actually like the variety.
Oh and also if you know one Claw, you can learn others at half cost and time.

>> No.28966763

>>28965062
Is that why my groups exalted games always dissolve into two parties trying to murder the other party? A-are we all assholes?

>> No.28966767

>>28966435
"Why did you initiate all of those Dragon-Blooded in a way that has them scourging Creation whenever they fight?"

"...It seemed like a good idea at the time, honest."

>> No.28966770

>>28966682

Fire adds damage, Air penalizes the target's die pools, Water delays the target's next action, Earth prones automatically, Wood is toxic.

(and Vitriol reduces effective soak and hardness under my rules but that's homebrew.)

>> No.28966831

>>28966767

"The plan was developed in committee."

>> No.28966907

>>28966767
>"Why did you initiate all of those Dragon-Blooded in a way that has them scourging Creation whenever they fight?"

Because gimping a bunch of Water Dragons by teaching them wrong is funny.

>> No.28966946

>>28966763
Nah, that's just a lack of communication between players during Chargen. Or at least, it is if that state of affair (PCs ending up fighting each-other) is not something your Table looks for.


I can perfectly see a campaign where unlikely allies are forced to work together, up to the point where cooperation becomes impossible and old or new enmities must be resolved in blood. You can even pursue the original scenario by having the "loosing half" of the players roll now characters aligned with the winners' goals.

Of course that would necessitate lots of discussing between players before th campaign starts, to agree on what the two sides are, what the cause for cooperation is, and what would drive each side to innitiate aggressive behavior.

>> No.28967033

>>28966907

>Because gimping a bunch of Water Dragons by teaching them wrong is funny.

All Water Dragons are now Wimp Lo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d696t3yALAY

>> No.28967264

>>28967033

Oh, Vitriolic Dragon Style is still effective... it's just WRONG, and crossing the streams like that makes a mess of your essence patterns.

>> No.28967997

Can the Southern war goddess have godblooded children? Or like Ahlat is she (and the other directional gods) too high up to have them?

>> No.28968015

I hear a lot of people say that Necromancy is very weak compared to sorcery. I'm playing a necromancer Abyssal soon and was wondering what spells are worth picking up from it?

Can a ghost measure up against a first circle demon?

>> No.28968076

>>28967997
Where did you ever get the impression that Ahlat was too high up to have God-Blooded kids given the existence of Blood on the Horn. Or that there was another directional war deity for the south?

>> No.28968114

>>28950752
So is the new edition going to fix everything when it launches early next year?

>> No.28968170

>>28968076
I meant western Goddess, Siakal?
I figure after the stuff he pulled with Blood on the Horn, Heaven's Auditors would be on the look out for such things.

>> No.28968205

>>28968114

That's up for debate. New Story-Telling system, new combat, new intimacies, new sorcery, new social combat, new Exalt types.

>> No.28968625

>>28966763
Sounds like your playing it right to me. Every other group in Exalted devolves into infighting at some point.

>> No.28968858

>>28968625
Social Combat negates that problem

>> No.28968950

>>28968205

AND YET WE STILL HAVE RIDE AND SAIL.

>> No.28969021

>>28968950
Dude have you not been paying attention to the updates?

They're getting more badass and useful.

>> No.28969048

So how about the chapter fiction from the new update?

For those who don't know: Update posted like, one hour ago.

>> No.28969096

>>28968950

What's wrong with those? Have you seen the transport artefacts in Wonders of the Lost Age? Flying Motorbikes, Daiklaves that transform into hover-boards, wings that you can wear and fly with, boats that fold up into briefcases, boats that sail on land and air, and the god damn Shrike. What's not to love?

>>28969048

Either copy/paste or link it.

>> No.28969169

>>28969096
Prince Diamond glided across the churning surface of the river, his footfalls meeting the water as though it were smooth, solid stone. The chieftain of the Cloud Wolf Tribe lagged behind him on the winding course of the river’s banks, creeping warily for fear of the cursed ground he walked upon. “Move a little faster, SixFangs. Otherwise, you’ll more likely die of old age than anything else.” The wolfman responded with a grudging snarl of assent and hastened his pace, though he still couldn’t keep pace with the straight path the Eclipse Caste walked down the face of the river. Diamond sighed. He would have found better conversation with his horse Ember, but the steed was no more able to walk on water than SixFangs. Still, if long silences were the worst they faced on this journey, he would count it as lucky.

By the time the sun had moved halfway towards setting on the western horizon, Prince Diamond and SixFangs had reached the river’s oncehallowed origin, a waterfall cascading down from a small mountain peak. The wolfman eyed the falls warily, but there would be no need to make that climb. The gods did not live in the sky, as the superstitious chieftain presumed, nor would Prince Diamond be so rude as to intrude upon the river spirit’s sanctum. Instead, he would call the god to him. He drew a sheet of colorful paper out of his robes and folded it into the shape of a crude boat, then began to speak into it— strange words, in a tongue the wolfman knew not. Then, the Eclipse Caste laid the boat upon the water, where the raging turmoil of the water dragged it under in mere seconds. A faint glimmer of blue, like glinting sapphires on the riverbed, told him that his call had been heard.

>> No.28969202

>>28969096
>What's not to love?
The fact they're getting rid of all that.

>> No.28969240

>>28969169
The river spirit emerged from the water with slow grandeur, towering over them both in a form of bracken and black water that wore a porcelain mask for its face. “Who would have words with Yanamo? Who intrudes upon my peace?” SixFangs raised his hackles at this manifestation, stumbling backwards in fear, but the Eclipse Caste remained composed. “I am Prince Diamond, an envoy on behalf of the Cloud Wolf Tribe. It seems that the bridges across your river have somehow been swept away in the past few months, and its waters become entirely impassable. They would ask, humbly, that you calm the river, and let them cross over to the hunting grounds on the other side of the shore, as they have for years before now. Certainly, that can be arranged.”

The god spat in contempt, hacking up a glob of sludge onto the riverbanks. “What does Yanamo care for such trifles? Let them starve, let them eat—they will all die in the end. All of them, just like White Eyes. My river rages with my grief, envoy, and you have not the words to quell either. Begone.” Prince Diamond had no idea who White Eyes was, but the way the wolfman’s ears had perked up when he heard the name told him all he needed to know. The god had taken a priestesswife from the Cloud Wolf Tribe—hardly an unusual arrangement—and forgotten his bride’s mortality, until she died.

>> No.28969266

>>28969202
>>Magitech will be less prevalent and therefore more amazing when it appears
>>THEY'RE GOING TO COMPLETELY GET RID OF MAGITECH

I don't know how people still think that the one leads into the other

>> No.28969304

>>28969240
“My condolences. I suppose there is nothing to be done, then. I will leave you—the Immaculate Order is nigh, and I must keep far afield of their hunt.” He turned to leave, waiting for the riverspirit to break the silence. “Wait,” said the god, his voice quavering just enough to betray his fears. “The Immaculates—are they truly coming?” The Eclipse Caste grinned, but composed his face into a mask of calm before turning back to face the god. “As we speak, I assure you. Their reach has spread even to these hinterlands, it seems. But you are mighty enough to contend with the DragonBlooded, no?” The river god hung his head in silent resignation. “Well then, perhaps we could strike a bargain. The Cloud Wolf Tribe has worshipped you for years. With your blessings, and your river at their back, perhaps they could stand against Immaculate Order. But of course, it is hard to fight on an empty stomach—”

“Very well,” said the god. At Prince Diamond’s beckoning, SixFangs came forth, placing his clawed hand within the immensity of the god’s own outstretched hand. “So long as the Cloud Wolf Tribe stands in my defense, they will have safe passage across my river, and my blessings in war.” As the god spoke, the words of his pledge scribed themselves into the air, burning with the whitegold fire of Prince Diamond’s anima as the Solar willed it to sanctify the oath, shining like reflected stars on the water’s face.

>> No.28969339

>>28969169
>>28969240
>>28969304

I'm not sure if it's painfully generic or if I just automatically hate anything involving that character.

>> No.28969378

>>28969266
In this context, "magitech is going by the wayside in favor of less techy artifacts" is a good reason not to use it as a reason for Ride's usefulness. If you're expected to be riding a horse and not an Orichalcum bicycle, then the ability should be good when you're on a horse and not an Orichalcum bicycle.

>> No.28969422

>>28969266
Because, having read WotLA, the only way to have less magitech in the setting than in 2e is to get rid of it entirely.

>> No.28969493

>>28969378
That doesn't preclude it from also being good on an orichalcum bicycle

>>28969422
2E had lots of magitech what are you talking about

Between the Realm and Lookshy there were plenty of warstriders, battle armors, magitech siege engines and the like to go around. Which is why it didn't really feel special when it got used.

>> No.28969511

>>28969422
There's a difference between "physically present" and "prominent in the sourcebooks and the kind of stories you're likely to run". If there are five sentences that say "magitech is very rare", and five chapters describing the form, function, construction, and role of various forms of magitech in elaborate detail, then magitech is prominent.

>> No.28969527

>>28969493
>Between the Realm and Lookshy there were plenty of warstriders, battle armors, magitech siege engines and the like to go around. Which is why it didn't really feel special when it got used.

I personally liked that. Make it more interesting. That and who didn't like warstriders duking it out?

>> No.28969548

>>28969511
>"physically present"
To elaborate, that's "physically present in most geographic locations of the setting". In 40k, most of the Imperium's worlds aren't actually at war at any given moment, and the Space Marines are extremely rare, but they're both prominent.

>> No.28969572

>>28969339

It's really just more of what we're accustomed to at this point.I did find the water-walking to be a nice touch, though.

Does anyone prefer having comics between chapters instead of stories?

>> No.28969608

>>28969572
I liked the visuals when they were well done.

>> No.28969637

>>28969608

Some of them, like the opening comic in the core were quite nice all right. Being dyslexic, I'd rather any comic over the stories.

>> No.28969829

>>28969169
>>28969240
>>28969304
Isn't Prince Diamond a girl?

>> No.28969867

>>28969829
Yes. She's referred to as a male due to her position/role in her society, and kills people who refuse to do so.

>> No.28969915

>>28969867

Which likely gets very awkward in societies without the 'swap gender' loophole to any strict gender roles they have.

>> No.28969926

>>28968170
They might be, but there's always a way around them. Also, there are probably very few eyes on Siakal for that kind of thing.

>> No.28969929

>>28969829
Transgender, essentially.

He's a delzahn or whatever that tribe of people is called

>> No.28969948

>>28969915
People in societies that don't have that get a chance to apologize and retract what they said, after that, it's killy-kill kill

>> No.28969962

>>28969608
Too bad that was really rare

>> No.28969977

>>28969096
>What's wrong with those?

hella redundant, awful charms. Should be merged.

>> No.28969984

>>28969867
>>28969915
>>28969926
>>28969929

I literally just noticed that this whole transgender thing wouldn't exist if Prince Diamond was a Lunar instead. Should I have noticed this sooner?

>> No.28970006

>>28969948

Yeah, hence my mention of strict gender roles. At it would be seen as very wrong to treat her as the opposite gender he sees herself as.

>>28969984

I wonder how they deal with Lunars going 'I'm a guy, I'm a girl, I'm a guy, I'm a girl!'. Beyond 'ANATHEMA!'

>> No.28970016

>>28969984
that's actually probably gonna be a thing, since P.D. is an eclipse, meaning he might be able to learn that charm

>> No.28970042

>>28969829
Hmm.... No. He was born a girl, true, but since he is a Dereth, he is for all intents and purposes a man. A man with a vagina, but a man nonetheless. A dereth male.

>> No.28970056

>>28970016

I think that there are other ways off changing gender as well.

>> No.28970066

>>28969984
>I literally just noticed that this whole transgender thing wouldn't exist if Prince Diamond was a Lunar instead

Nah, it totally would still. Diamond's supposed to be kind of a jerk, so instead of actually using the Lunar gender-swap transformations he'd just stick to his Derethness because that way he gets into more confrontations about it.

>> No.28970085

>>28970042

Or, at least in that society. In others, he's a she.

>> No.28970113

>>28970066
...uuuuuh, source?

Otherwise you're talking out your ass. Because "actively looking to start shit" is basically the exact opposite of an eclipse

>> No.28970130

>>28970113
He gives people only one chance and goes straight to the fucking death by swording after that. It ain't a hard damn leap to make, scooter.

>> No.28970162

>>28970042
So then Dereth Women are just very elaborate traps.

>> No.28970163

>>28970130
That's a specific Dereth custom, not just a Prince Diamond thing.

The harsher Dereth skip the chance for an apology and go straight to the murder.

>> No.28970186

>>28970163

Still kinda a bit jerky outside Dereth.

>> No.28970191

>>28970163
All that means is that he's a typical jerk from a society of jerks. Doesn't change anything, just gives a reason for it.

Which is, actually, good--it gives some verisimilitude to the whole fucking thing and besides, Exalts aren't supposed to be nice people anyway.

>> No.28970259

>>28970066

Yeah, that makes me want to make a point of killing the character (or at least humiliating her in a duel) in any game where an ST uses her.

>> No.28970262

>>28970163
but that is mainly when dealing with their own people. They tend to be marginally more forgiving for the ignorant masses outside their most perfect culture

>> No.28970288

>>28970130
You probably won't die by his hands, but the Delzahn are a warring people, and enjoy duels. Probably just face off against him once and learn not to make the mistake again.

Are there Dereth in other places in the south; like how Tya come from The Neck and Wavecrest?

>> No.28970297

>>28969511
If its prominent in the kinds of games people are likely to run, then shouldn't it be prominent in the sourcebooks? What about all the people who like the magitech? They can play with the increased amount of magitech, and the people who don't like it can play with the amount the books actually say there is.

>>28969984
Or got a hearthstone.

>> No.28970313
File: 729 KB, 3000x2562, soaring dream.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
28970313

Man, all this Prince Diamond talk is leading to me imagining my current Solar trying to shove them into a party dress and responding to all the protests and dueling challenges with 'Oh come on, there is nothing wrong with a man in high heels and a skirt! I've taught at enough Cynis schools to know that!'

Then again, Soaring Dream has way too much fun making things look pretty, regardless of gender, species or if they are actually a Fae Noble or Immaculate Monk.

>> No.28970341
File: 1.37 MB, 267x200, Your post is funny.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
28970341

>>28970313

>> No.28970347

>>28970313
Is that actually a shirt or just a piece of cloth she wrapped around her neck and draped in front of her tits?

>> No.28970402

>>28970313
I thought that was a fairy getting eaten.

>> No.28970419

>>28970402

Dammit, dude, now I'm seeing it.

>> No.28970469

>>28970347

It's supposed to be the first, sort of. Cloth tied into something like a halter top because Air Folk wings were really hard to work out how to not look silly with shirts as you can't just poke them out small holes in the back. They are not made of rubber.

She's a courtier Zenith with a minor bit of 'Mad Geneticist' if you let her near a genesis lab.

It ended up looking a little odd but I really like the art (The artist was very reasonable about my botherings for small changes here and there and the wings look pretty cool.)

>> No.28970541

>>28970469
> Not just draping cloth over your tits
It's like you've never even been to the realm.

>> No.28970656

>>28970541

She teaches in the realm (She teaches her skills as a courtier at schools here and there.). Her motivation oddly enough involves preserving it in the face of all that's going on (As it's oddly enough, the first place where she found people accepting her as a skilled expert and not just a very valuable slave) and she loathes the Bull in the North as a jumped up barbarian with delusions of importance.

But still, there is such a thing as being professionally seductive, not a classless tart.

>> No.28970757

>>28970656
Bull of the North is an important Solar.

>> No.28970851

>>28970259
Wow. That's kind of an extreme reaction. Actually, that makes you a bigger jerk than him.


>>28970163
>>28970130
>>28969948
>>28969867
A Duel doesn't have to be to the death.

Personally, I see it more as a proof of competence in that particular situation. If you are percieved as questionning PD's status as a man, and refuse to retract yourself, the best way he's got to prove you wrong is to demonstrate he is a better man than you, by doing what his culture has teached him men are supposed to do : fight.

Should you loose, he'll probably even be a bro about it, as long as you admit your mistake.

Of course, if he kicks your ass but you insist on being an idiot...

Well just remember that in Creation, in the end, Might Makes Right.

>> No.28970856

>>28970757

He's still a jumped up cultureless barbarian and invader of where she considers her home these days. She holds no loyalty to him just because he's a solar.

>> No.28970871

>>28970851
>A Duel doesn't have to be to the death.

If you're a mortal, and statistically speaking you probably are, you're probably a dead duck. Sepsis is a bitch.

>> No.28970883

>>28970851

>Killing murderers makes you worse than them

>> No.28970960

>>28970856
He was just that. Now he's a Solar with a budding empire about to unite all of the North with him.

>> No.28970961

>>28970883
I was reffering to you, as in you the player, the person I am adressing right now.

"Oh, I just can't wait for my ST to whip out that character I hate for some muddy reasons that I'm going to pretend are totally right and not at all related to the fact that he's probably manlier than me even though he's got a vagina. That way I can have my revenge on fictionnal vagina-men."

>> No.28970998

>>28970960
Under his cultureless barbarian rule.

>> No.28971018

>>28970961

>Killing a fictional murderer that I like in a game makes you worse than them

>> No.28971060

>>28970961
Why are you getting so upset?

I fucking hate Typhon, and want to capture and murder him when I get the chance.

>> No.28971069

>>28970960

Oh yes. Just saying that solars (Her in particular) don't have to have any loyalty to each other. She'd personally say that Sol made a very poor choice with him.

Or to be more blunt, if she was in a bad mood >>28970998

>> No.28971153

>>28971018
Yes.
You are worse than PD because you are a real human being, hopefully mature and learned enough to know better than to reason that way. Don't you think your original statement was a bit of an over-reaction considering we are talking about a fictionnal character?


Now if you told me, "my usual character types are of the mind that 'might makes right' is a terrible thing and will oppose Prince Diamond should he witness him beating a man to a bloody pulp", I would understand that. But you, as a player, deciding "I'm going to beat the shit out of him because seriously fuck this guy" is silly.

>> No.28971163

>>28970998
But he does have a culture
He isn't from The Lap or from the West.

>> No.28971221

>>28971060
See >>28971153
I'm upset because I thought actual human beings, RPG players to boot, would be sensible enough to not voice such silly opinion.


I personally wouln't appreciate a friend of mine acting like Prince Diamond in real life. Insult or no insult, hurting someone isn't going to fix the problem. But I appreciate Prince Diamond as a character, because characters don't have to be sympathetic, or even morally right, for me to enjoy them.

Chejop Kejak comes to mind.

>> No.28971246

>>28971153
>You are worse than PD because you are a real human being

No, that's not the way this shit works and you know it.

>Pick any living person with a flaw
>"You're worse than Sauron because you're a real human being!"

>Don't you think your original statement was a bit of an over-reaction considering we are talking about a fictionnal character?
Since I'm talking about something I'd like to do in a game, no.

>"Man, I really wanted to kill Handsome Jack after what he did to Bloodwing."
>"Dude, isn't that an overreaction, since you're talking about a fictional character?"

>> No.28971258

>>28971221
Some people just have characters they don't like.

>> No.28971300

>>28971221
But he's not hurting them?
He's just fighting them.

>> No.28971410

>>28971246
Meh. I just think we have divergent views on the matter. I think hating characters is stupid. Actually, I think characters that are good enough to cause you to feel something about them are one of my favourite things, because that means they are effecting you as a reader. I am a big fan of those characters, incidentally.


Also, PD might have killed people before. So did every single Sig Character for Exalted, be they Solars, Abyssals, DBs or what have you. As well as every warrior, mercenary, armed noble, assassin, courtesan or spirit you might meet ingame. What makes PD so much worse that you seem to react so badly to the character?

>> No.28971506

>>28971410

PD is killing people over petty insults that probably weren't originally intended as insults (hence "murdering" instead of "killing"). That's not morally equivalent to, say, Dace killing an Abyssal that's trying to wipe a fucking city off the map.

I really shouldn't be having to explain this.

>> No.28971598

>>28970347

It's a titscarf.

>> No.28971605

>>28971506
Not the same guy you're talking to, but...if you didn't intend it as an insult, you probably wouldn't do it again after being informed the first time, bro.

>> No.28971626

>>28971506
>PD is killing people over petty insults that probably weren't originally intended as insults
No he isn't. It's been explicitely stated that PD takes care to explain to mistaken people what mistake they have commited. After that, it is not a mistake but clearly an insult. And even then, as I've said before, a duel doesn't have to be to the death.


I think you either are overestimating the aggressiveness of Prince Diamond, or giving in to the trolls who are trying to paint him as some kind of crazed SJW who kills men for the slightest faux-pas.

>> No.28971674

>>28971506
But Prince Diamond isn't killing people!
He realizes that he isn't in the South anymore, and that to other people in creation his culture is odd. He'd like it if you called him by his preferred gender, but won't instantly stab you in the chest should you get it wrong the first couple of times.

But if you continue and make an obnoxious fuss about it; well then you've insulted his honor. And he'll fight you. Not murder or kill, but spar.

>> No.28971710

>>28971674
>Not murder or kill, but spar.
And probably kick your ass, and frankly you'd deserve it.

>> No.28971781

>>28971626

In that case, it's "change your language to suit my wishes, or I'll beat you up, because if I say something is an insult it's an insult".

Then I probably wouldn't kill PD, but I'd make it a point to fight her if the situation arose.

>> No.28971814

>>28971781
But it would be an insult.
Prince Diamond is for all purposes a man and should be treated as such. Just like a Tya is treated as a man.

>> No.28971896

>>28971814
>Prince Diamond is for all purposes a man and should be treated as such.

According to her own culture, of which I am not a part. Unless my character -is-, in which case the confrontation won't ever happen.

>> No.28971927

>>28971781
Call any man in any sailor port of the West, or Great House princeling, or male Solar a "she" and you'll get the same reaction.

>> No.28971950

>>28971896
According to his own culture and his will as a Prince of the Earth. The guy is *litteraly* above you. Unless you are a Solar yourself, in which case you should know better than to insult one of your peers.

>> No.28971992

>>28971896
Not just his own culture but how he feels about himself and his wishes. Its personal.

>> No.28972045

>>28971950
>Unless you are a Solar yourself, in which case you should know better than to insult one of your peers.

If I'm a Celestial myself, PD's will doesn't matter any more than mine.

If I'm not, then I'd probably choose another tactic as a matter of strategy. Find a rival Solar or someone that she pissed off and help build them up.

>> No.28972071

>>28971950
>The guy is *litteraly* above you

Unless you can beat him up. That's how creation works, after all. Solars are only Princes of the Earth because they beat someone up.

As an aside: How does Prince Diamond take LOSING the 'I am not a girl' duel? Would they apologise for being wrong, like they'd expect someone else to do?

>> No.28972116

>>28972071

Defeat him and chop his dick off. Everyone wins!

>> No.28972138

>>28972071
The developers HAVE said that Solars who fight stupidly can get their shit kicked in by skilled mortals in 3e...

>> No.28972165

>>28971896
That's actually an interesting scene, come to think of it! So, you stand your ground, Prince stands his, and it has to be solved in a duel. The both of you fight valiantly and in the end :

1/ You draw the first blood, which was the win condition you both agreed on. The Prince stands defeated, stunned by the feeling of shame in defeat. What do you do?
2/ Prince Diamond draws the first blood, puts his sword away, and waits for you to stand. His hand reaches towards you, and he asks if you have learned your lesson. What do you do?

>> No.28972208

>>28972165

1. I refer to her as female for a year without reprisal, after which she can rechallenge me.

2. I'll comply with his wish for a year, after which I'll issue a second challenge.

>> No.28972257

>>28972165
>His hand reaches towards *yours*
Dammit fingers.

>> No.28972326

I have a better question; why can't you call Prince Diamond a guy? I don't have the picture of him but he's not very feminine looking. The only way you would know is if you caught him unclothed.

>> No.28972350

>>28972165
There is no first blood win condition on my end. I cheat, likely with a nice poison.

Best way to survive in creation, kill anyone who harassed you with a weapon.

>> No.28972504

>>28972326

Because she isn't, really, and I don't like humoring people who threaten others when their whims aren't satisfied.

As a side note, my response to the duel question was this one: >>28972208

I wouldn't view PD wanting an arranged, limited duel with an equal poorly, oddly enough.

>> No.28972592
File: 2.31 MB, 400x225, kouta no baka.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
28972592

>>28972504
>Because she isn't, really

DUCK AND COVER THE HORDES WILL BE UNLEASHED SOON

>> No.28972608

>>28972504
But he isn't threatening people.

>> No.28972718

>>28972608

"Use the pronouns -I- want, even though your culture doesn't require it, or fight me" is a threat.

>> No.28972738

>>28972350
You do realise poison would likely be ineficient against an Exalt?

If you're going to play that kind of character, make it a clever one, otherwise I value your chances too much.

>> No.28972831

>>28972718
But it isn't just a culture thing.
He wants to be called and recognized as a male. It's what he would like. Are you that much of a jerk to continue after he's made it clear what he wants.

>> No.28972882

>>28972738
>otherwise I wouldn't value your chances too much
FTFY

>>28972718
It is indeed. I suppose, then, your character wouldn't have any objection against calling a Tya or Dereth man a "He", should said Tya or Dereth man ask it of you in a respectful manner, instead of threatening you should you not comply?


The reason you present for refusing to call PD by his chosen pronoun is a reason I can appreciate, and would probably suit some of the characters I have played (those with a sense of Justice some in Creation might find "quaint").

>> No.28972924

>>28972831

Since it's something that I think is weird and don't want to do, yes. I don't care if it's what she wants.

I would respond the same way if she asked me to imitate the Fonz or spin around three times every time we met.

>> No.28972986

>>28972882
>I suppose, then, your character wouldn't have any objection against calling a Tya or Dereth man a "He", should said Tya or Dereth man ask it of you in a respectful manner, instead of threatening you should you not comply?

I would politely decline, but wouldn't hold it against them, beyond privately thinking it was a bit weird. It would be like a British Peer visiting the US and asking me (in a non-insulting way) to call him by his title.

>> No.28973009

>>28972924
>>28972986
But what if your character was either from the South or West, where your character would be taught the proper manners when dealing with Dereth and Tya?

>> No.28973082

>>28973009

I already answered that, actually.

If my character is from the same culture, there would be no problem, though he might still have an issue with PD's methods.

>> No.28973123

>>28970656
>and she loathes the Bull in the North as a jumped up barbarian with delusions of importance.
That's because he is.

>> No.28973152

>>28973123
>Defeated the realm
>united the tribes
>has a full circle
He's a big player in Creation

>> No.28973207

>>28970313
I played with an Infernal like your Solar once.

>> No.28973269
File: 69 KB, 450x300, RejoycementIntensifies.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
28973269

>>28973009
That makes it a cultural thing again. If you want to argue the inherent right for a person to determine which pronoun should be used to adress them, this is not the way to go.

(To clarify, I'm not opposing the concept you are defending. I just wanted to point out you are defending it somehow weirdly.)

>>28972986
>>28972924
The problem with all of that is that I cannot tell if we are talking about you, the player (about which, I'll be honest, I couldn't give much of a crap, because you seem to be a polite, decent chap, and your refusal would be understandable, and I am confident you'll come around someday), or a particular character of yours (who, keep in mind, won't necessarily have the same views as you, the player) who, originating in a world where the Tya and Dereth are only two of a plethora of social structures where biology and grammar do not necessarily correlate, wouldn't necessarily give a shit about it.


This discussion is confusing me to no end, but on the other hand, HEY! NOBODY'S INSULTING ANYONE ANYMORE!

>> No.28973330

I think everyone is forgetting that Prince Diamond actually goes to the trouble of looking like a man and presents very masculinely, minimizing the appearance of breasts and hips with clothing, wearing armor and keeping a raw mannish appearance. Probably also speaks in a semi-permanent basso.

And with charms, could probably fool you even if you were the kind of dick to call them a woman.

>> No.28973417

>>28973330
Yes, that should not be forgotten, but I guess you could argue that opportunities to "discover the shocking truth" would abount. First to come to mind would be hot springs, because fuck yeah hot springs.

>> No.28973566

>>28973152

You can be both.

>> No.28973589

>>28973330
what does she look like?

>> No.28973595

>>28960775

Solars as a group needed the ancient weapons designed by Authocthon to harm Primordials. A Solar "soloing" a Primordial is just shit writing.

>> No.28973637
File: 108 KB, 560x677, SupBishuaz.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
28973637

>>28973589
Here's the Kickstarter picture for Prince Diamond.

>> No.28973654

>>28962463

I like his feet being cracked and rough like a birds feet, also thinner than the rest.

>> No.28973666

>>28973152
And the Realm only had to make its biggest blunder in the entirety of its military history to allow it!

>> No.28973732

>>28973330
I would never have guessed Prince Diamond was a woman, honestly.

I mean, most male vampires and elves look way more feminine than she does.

>even if you were the kind of dick to call them a woman.

People who have spent overly long on the internet are basically the only people in the world who know calling a tranny by the wrong pronoun is insulting. In-setting, the only people who would know its rude are Southerners or wherever it is Diamond comes from, and even other cultures' trannies wouldn't necessarily consider calling them by the wrong pronoun insulting.

>> No.28973737

>>28973637

Yeah, I would figure that she was female, unless she obscured it with Charm use.

>> No.28973740

>>28973666
Are you saying things would have turned out differently? The North wouldn't be the same without the Bull and his circle improving things.

>> No.28973824

>>28970085

Not how he sees it, and he's willing to correct you only once, after that it's duel time.

>tfw you defeat him and break him into your androgynous tsundere cocksleeve.

>> No.28973845

>>28973824

Yeah, as I asked...what does Prince Diamond assume will happen if he loses? I don't know the culture that well.

>> No.28973950

>>28973737
Dude, that's actually how most male Chiaroscurans dress (although PD should be wearing a veil to cover his face and protect the honor of his family). The women wear drab colors and forgo veils and facescarves unless there's an immediate practical concern like a sandstorm or facebeetles.

>> No.28973951

>>28973845
Being a Solar, he probably doesn't assume he'll lose.

>> No.28973974

>>28973950
I think the lack of the veil is because in addition to being Dereth, he's an outlaw and thus has no family honor, only his own.

>> No.28974026

>>28973950

What? It's not the outfit. That's not a dude's torso.

The face is also another hint, though it's not unimaginable that a guy could have it.

>> No.28974035

>>28963593

Any other setting and I would call bullshit. But this is Exalted, if one of them wants to start a letter-writing campaign to make the Mask weep evil little tears, that's cool. The hatred binding his ghost to reality fades, and without his fetter, he dies.

Then the Twilight snatches his Neverborn-fragment and turns it into a gun.

>> No.28974037

>>28973951
Being a Solar, he isn't very likely to, too.

I suspect he knows how to use his Daiklave with deadly efficiency. You don't need to be a Dawn to be a master of the sword, after all.

>> No.28974040

>>28973951

Unfortunately for him, there is more than just one solar about. Or heck, even a skilled Dragonblood.

>> No.28974054
File: 53 KB, 112x269, Kronar.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
28974054

>>28973974
I guess I won't be able to ask him to show me his honor.

>> No.28974072

>>28974035

That's the best part of Exalted; what's over the top in one game is just an average session of Exalted.

>> No.28974114

>>28974026
Not all men have a V-shaped bodybuilder torso, anon.

Or do you mean you manage to percieve his breasts? I don't see it, but then again, the first time I saw the picture was before I actually read about the character. Maybe you knowing he's got boobs under there has affected your perception somewhat?


The face we agree could very well be male. We've seen men with more effeminate faces in Exalted history before.

>> No.28974154

>>28974040
Why assume he wouldn't beat the shit out even a Solar with that sword?


Favouring Melee is a thing, you know.

>> No.28974204

>>28974154

I'm saying it's not certain he'd win and asking what the culture would say about him losing. Yes, he's likely to win. I'm asking about the hypothetical where he doesn't.

>> No.28974233

>>28974072

Just off the top of my head from the last campaign...

> Zenith performing marathon sex for two days to keep a Satrap too tired to recover willpower, enabling Eclipse to successfully perform Socialize charms
> Team air-dropping into a damaged manse, passing through a hole five yards wide while under fire
> Night case sneaks into and out of a first-age cache 100 times in a night, stealing an orichalcum automaton soldier each trip
> Warstrider surfing the Skywolf into Thorns to duel the Leviathan
> Twilight sorcerer replacing half the Guild factors with loyal mirror clones
> Zentih distributes a holy book packed with written social charms that causes an entire country to worship him

And that's run-of-the-mill stuff here. Reminds me why I first bought the game.

>> No.28974257

>>28974114

It's not the first time I've seen the character, though I didn't scrutinize them as much before.

I'm seeing a really slender torso right above the waist, widening into a chest. The sword's blocking part of it, but yeah, I'd say I'm picking up some breasts on the side there.

>> No.28974271

The attachment to biological gender people show in this thread is silly. This is Exalted, a setting where genetic codes and chromosomes probably don't exist, a low-entry magical bauble or supernatural power can change your body plan from male to female and back again and others go far beyond that, and where the main protagonists share memory and continuity of identity with people who might or might not have had a completely different gender from them. Attaching importance to whether or not you were born with a penis or a vagina is silly, and will make you look pretty dumb when you encounter Lunars, Wyld mutants, spirits and other such things.

>> No.28974291

>>28974204
I have to admit I don't really know. I suppose we'll know more about that as we learn about the character.

Honestly we don't know enough about him to make a judgement on that yet. I'm interested to know, though!


Can anyone with the Compass : South book on hand inform us on what Delzhans who loose a duel must endure?


(I personally think he's be the kind to choose Exile over dishonnor, so he'd likely accept defeat and leave the town, but that's just my perception of him with what little amount of info we have.)

>> No.28974346

I have a dumb question; but it mentions in the North that gods and fey can steal a person's ability to feel warm.
What are they doing with all that amassed warmth? I mean, could they do anything with that? There has to be a reason outside of teaching an uppity mortal their place.

>> No.28974437

>>28974271

I think you skimmed and jumped to conclusions instead of actually understanding what's being discussed. None of your examples are relevant.

>> No.28974488

They're totally relevant to everyone who's been calling Prince Diamond "she" and "her" since the start of that discussion.

>> No.28974578

>>28974488
Personally I think that they're just being a dick for no good reason. Even if Prince Diamond's culture is strange to you, you wouldn't go out of your way to antagonize him by calling and treating him like a girl.

>> No.28974583

>>28974488
You're talking about characters that change sexes.

Everyone else is talking about one that keeps herself static instead of using any of the methods to alter herself, but insists on being referred to as the opposite.

I'd change pronoun when your example Lunar changed sexes. Nothing difficult about that.

>> No.28974599

>>28974488
They might be, but now is not the time, and this is not the place, friend. Rest assured I agree with your point, but Exalted General is already hijacked often enough by trolls and edition skirmishes. I would like this thread to stay on topic, for the love of fuck.

>> No.28974639

>>28974271
It's also a setting that still has gender roles in the vast majority of its cultures.

>> No.28974692

I'm sorry about how bitter this sounds but Holden is a dipshit and a solaroid fanboy and his presence basically dooms 3rd edition to failure.

>> No.28974758

>>28974692
Wow, dude. Did you just got told off on the official forums or something?

It doesn't just sound bitter, it also sounds highly unlikely to be true.

>> No.28974804

>>28972738
According to 3e devs mortals are now good enough to threaten exalts, so I'm assuming poison is no longer a null factor. I'm also assuming that in true Exalted Dev style being an NPC means Diamond is poorly built. I'm ALSO assuming a Black Claw/White Veil is a good combination to use.

>> No.28974807

>>28974578
I don't need to respect someone's culture in Exalted. Nobody has to respect anybody's culture in Exalted. If I defeat the Delzhans I have every right to strip them of their way of life and install my own in its place.

>> No.28974844

>>28974758
Actually I just got off RPG.net and I am just tired of Holden's solar wank. I find that his favoritism of solars goes beyond the acceptable "solars are the best exalts in the setting" and at times feels as though he is hamstringing other splats to make solars more special.

>> No.28974916

>>28974807
Actually, I'm fairly sure that's a sure recipe for disaster, because in true Exalted fashion, the acts of the Exalted against the populations will actually increase the possibilities for people in said populations to show heroism and have a chance at Exalting.

Dickery gets regulated.

>> No.28974928

>>28969096
in 2e, Ride was useless if you didn't have a mount and Sail was borderline useless on Dry Land.

Unless you could get your hands on an airship or landship or something.

>> No.28974929

>>28974807
True. You don't have to respect anyone's wishes.

Still makes you a dick, though. If you consciously choose not to, I mean.

>> No.28974941

>>28974844
Is Holden posting on RPG.net?
Can you link to the thread?

>> No.28974980

>>28974807
That was my point above. Yes, PD is being an asshole. THIS IS NORMAL FOR THE SETTING. You can be an asshole right back to him. If you're an Exalt, you SHOULD, because that can set up a really interesting story of rivalry and animosity punctuated by epic kung fu sword dueling. Working as fucking intended.

>> No.28974987

>>28969829
Prince Diamond is a Delzahn. Just smile and nod.

>> No.28975019

>>28974929

Not if your wishes and theirs are mutually exclusive, and they're the ones imposing. Which is what the original discussion was about.

>> No.28975025

>>28974692
>>28974844
> Devs and writers have constantly said that the difference in power between Solars and other Exalts will be less important in 3rd ed.
> Devs and writers have constantly said that there will be less "solar-only plot points" in 3rd ed.
> You "Holden is Solar fanboi and will ruin 3rd ed by making everyone Solar's bitches!!!111eleventy!!"
coolstorybro.jpg

>> No.28975059

>>28974916
Sometimes, yes, other times, no. Sometimes conquering and whitewashing goes just as planned.

>> No.28975086

>>28974929
Power is the only ethical absolute. If you have the power to destroy a culture, you are within your bounds in doing so. This is the true mandate of heaven.

>> No.28975094

>>28970006
Lunars are whatever they feel like being at the moment. Rain Deathflyer still won't fuck Silver python in His/Her 20 year cycle as a man, though.

>> No.28975098

>>28975019
His wishes are in essence "not being misgendered". You haven't said what yours are, appart "misgendering him".
If Bob's wish is not to be insulted, and Alice's wish is to insult Bob, both wishes are mutually exclusive. Alice is still a dick.

>> No.28975117

>>28975019
One could argue that in a situation where two people have opposing wishes but only one person is directly affected by waid wishes, the person's wish about himself takes precedence.

>> No.28975119

>>28970016
Twin-faced Hero is a Knack, so not Eclipse-OK to begin with, and sure as hell won't be in 3E.

>> No.28975151

>>28975025
Like I said, I know I am being bitter and I know they have promised not to do the solarwank I hate. It is just that everything Holden did while he was on the ink monkeys makes me distrust his work in particular.

>> No.28975162

>>28975086
"Power is the only ethical absolute."
Says you.
Creation is not supposed to run on crazy "might makes right" ethics. It's supposed to have no absolute ethics. Just like our world seems to. And I daresay that in our world, many people agree that power is not the only ethical absolute.

>> No.28975186

>>28975162
In the end, power is all that matters to Creation. You can either enforce your will or you can't. There's nothing else at play.

>> No.28975211

>>28975098
Bob is a dick for not enjoying being chastised by Alice. He should know what she really means! B-baka!

>> No.28975234

>>28975186
What you just said is true, but has no bearing on ethics at all.
"Might allows your to effectively do what you want" =/= "Might makes right"

>> No.28975276

>>28975234
The victor is always right. They are right until they lose.

>> No.28975280

>>28975117
>but only one person is directly affected by waid wishes

Doesn't apply here. Forcing others to change their existing language to suit your desires affects them.

>> No.28975293

>>28975151
It's alright, mate. Calm down. Have a cup'o'tea or somesuch.
It's gonna be alright.

>> No.28975299

>>28975151
Quit crying about your lesser splats.

>> No.28975332

>>28975276
The victor is always the victor. You'd still have to proove how that makes him right.

>> No.28975383

>>28975098
Read the fucking thread. This has already been addressed.

>> No.28975384

>>28975332
It is the will of heaven that he succeeded. Even if the gods are against him, even if Creation is against him, if he prevails, he has the favor of heaven.

I am referencing the actual mandate of heaven, jackass.

>> No.28975398

>>28975280
Still applies. Changing the use of one pronoun is insignificant compared to having to accept being insulted over and over again.
Since you're the one it affects the least, the onus to change is still on you.

Or you can choose to be a dick. That's a perfectly valid response, but you still have to admit to it.

>> No.28975451

>>28975398
>Since you're the one it affects the least, the onus to change is still on you.
Says you. I think your interpretation is wrong. I reject your value structure and substitute my own.

>> No.28975468

>>28975332
There's no one left who disagrees that's how.

>> No.28975472

>>28975384
I realise what you were referencing. We had that very debate in the OPP forums about a month ago, if I remember correctly.

I still don't think the Mandate of Heaven is a valid ethical code, whether you are in Creation or on Earth.

>> No.28975498

>>28975472
Well, you're wrong. Let us fight like gentlemen to resolve this.

>> No.28975508

>>28975451
" I reject your value structure."
>>28975398
" You can choose to be a dick. That's a perfectly valid response."

>> No.28975532

>>28975508
I reject your label of "dick". It implies I conform to your values. I don't. You, in fact, are the dick good sir.

>> No.28975533

>>28975468
If I declare the sky is purple in an empty room, there's no one to disagree. Still doesn't make it any less wrong.

>> No.28975537

Rolled 71

>>28975398
Nope, it's still on the person who wants everyone else to change to cater to their whim. You don't special treatment just because you've decided that everyday language is insulting.

>> No.28975549

>>28975472
That goes into personal opinion on the system though, not whether it's valid or functional within the sociopolitical environment of a post-post-post-apocalyptic reality where everything is made of magical essence and acts like it's supposed to because little spirits make sure it does.

>> No.28975556

>>28975533
No it means the sky is purple. If you want to call the sky purple and no one disagrees with the sky being purple, well then that fuckers purple now.

>> No.28975569

>>28975280
No it doesn't. It litterally makes no difference for you. I'll take for proof of that that I have been calling Prince Diamond a He for the whole duration of this discussion, and it hasn't confused anyone.

To the person you are talking to? It means a lot. Just like it means a lot for a homosexual to not be called "fag", for a black person to not be called "white", or for a Solar to not be called Anathema.

>> No.28975574

>>28975532
"I'm rubber and you're glue, bounces off me and sticks to you!"
I hope you're not seriously using grade-school level arguments ^^.

>> No.28975599

>>28975574
The fact is that you have no right to declare me an anything unless you can force it upon me. Since you can't, I am not a dick for calling PD whatever I want.

>> No.28975637

>>28975537
"everyday language"
Calling a man "she" just to piss him off is not everyday language.

>> No.28975649

>>28975569
I don't have to care about what that person thinks about anything. Your proof is ridiculous, because there have been plenty of people calling Diamond a she anyway. In Exalted, you are not required to give two shits about anything yo don't want to.

If calling Prince Diamond a woman makes her angry, upsets her, hurts her feelings, whatever, she's just going to have to get over it or ruthlessly stomp on anybody in her way. Just as nature intended.

>> No.28975684

>>28975569
> It litterally makes no difference for you.
Oh, but who are you to say? If my language matters so much to them, it can certainly matter at least that much to me.

>I'll take for proof of that that I have been calling Prince Diamond a He for the whole duration of this discussion, and it hasn't confused anyone.
Actually, someone was confused by it earlier in the thread, though it may not have been one of your posts specifically.

>Just like it means a lot for a homosexual to not be called "fag", for a black person to not be called "white", or for a Solar to not be called Anathema.
Two of which are intended as insults from the beginning, and one of which is simply incorrect by definition.

>> No.28975685

>>28975569
Who the fuck cares if it means a lot to them? That is irrelevant to the highest degree in this arena.

>> No.28975707

>>28975637
Prince Diamond is a woman who believes herself to be a man.

>> No.28975711

>>28975549
Of course we are discussing personnal opinions on ethical systems. I'm discussing mine, you're discussing yours. That's part of the beauty of this game, it holds up a mirror to our world and allows us to discuss ethical systems using another point of entry, so to speak.

>>28975599
Just like you have no right to call PD a she, you mean?

>> No.28975717

>>28975637

We're talking about calling a woman "she" despite it pissing her off.

If someone gets pissed off because my car is white, and I refuse to repaint it, it doesn't mean I'm doing it to piss them off. It means I don't care about whether they're pissed off, or at least not enough to make it my problem.

>> No.28975725

>>28975711
>Just like you have no right to call PD a she, you mean?
I have a right because nobody can stop me. You can call me a dick, but it won't stick because I'm behind the perfect defense called anonymity.

>> No.28975728

>>28975707
Prince Diamond is a man who was born female.

>> No.28975750

>>28975717
See this :
>>28975728

>> No.28975752

>>28975728
You what, mate? You keep that up and I'll bash you right in the gabber, I will.

>> No.28975764

>>28975649
Actually, you have to if you have Compassion or Temperance as your primary virtue, an attachment to personal freedom or self-determination or some such+Conviction as your primary virtue, are under the effects of a charm that causes you to reach one of these conditions or imposes UMI, gets convinced through natural mental influence...


Good thing RPGs have mechanical bits to resolve that kind of thing.

>> No.28975767

>>28975750

The world at large rejects your bullshit. Repeating it won't make it truth.

>> No.28975779
File: 498 KB, 500x235, Alyssa-Milano-Popcorn-Gif.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
28975779

>this discussion

>> No.28975795

>>28975764
Nah, I just set my care-o-meter to "not give a fuck". Also known as social defenses.

I literally do not have to care about what anyone thinks about anything if I do not care to.

>> No.28975805

>>28975752
You're welcome to try, buddy.
>>28975767
Argumentum ad populum.

>> No.28975834

>>28975764
Compassion and Temperance don't actually make you care about others opinions. They never have. Similarly, you can have contradictory Intimacies and favor one over the other in certain situations with no problem.

You are making up shit.

>> No.28975838

>>28975805

When you're talking about what words mean, yeah, the way that damned near everyone uses them is kinda important.

>> No.28975858

>>28975764
>Compassion
I played a Compassion 5 Warlord who murdered the shit out of people all the time. What now?

>> No.28975894

>>28975795
Good. So while you activate your scene-long social defences and plug your ears, Prince Diamond gets to stab you.


Since you reject general consensus on what makes or doesn't make someone "a dick", you don't get to say anything about it being wrong.

And since you've invested in enough Social Defenses to resist UMI from an Eclipse Caste, you don't get to invest enough to defend against the attack.

Enjoy bleeding on the pavement, ya git.

>> No.28975919

>>28975858
Apart from the tranny dispute, how'd you get away with it mechanically?

Desus-style charm that justified what you were doing to yourself, or were you just in almost-constant Limit Break?

>> No.28975923

>>28975838
Female/Male Sex
Woman/Man Gender

Wow, it's almost as if we had different words for different concepts!

>> No.28975924
File: 91 KB, 720x480, 1383904785670.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
28975924

>>28975858
How does that even work?

>> No.28975940

>>28975894
Social Defenses are cheap and easy. You can easily afford the core suite as a Dawn Caste and then keep that up the entire story. In fact, that's standard procedure as far as I'm aware. Every player I have ever played with has been immune to all social influence from chargen.

>> No.28975953

>>28975858
> Resisting the urge to say "playing your character wrong"
>>28975919
Except if that kind of stuff, yeah.

>> No.28975957

>>28975894
>general consensus
No.

Your ST fantasy is amusing, though.

>> No.28975962

>>28975940
Wow. Every time you post something, I get happier and happier not to be part of your games.

>> No.28975972

>>28975919
>>28975924
Use extra intimacy slots to declare large swaths of the world as hated enemies. Leave only a small, carefully selected portion as people worthy of mercy.

Back this up with Charms.

>> No.28975986

>>28975962
Your game sound like shit yourself, sir. Why would you hand over control of your character to anyone? You only get the one.

>> No.28975992

>>28975972
Theion would be proud.

>> No.28976026

>>28975972
Hmm... As an ST, I'd still frown* on Compassion 5 character cold-heartedly murdering their ennemies without it bothering them the least.

But whatever, your game, your rules, man.

*and by frown I mean 'Fuck no, you're going to eat some massive Limit, man"

>> No.28976034

>>28975986
Because I don't consider my ST to be a mortal ennemy that will dick me over every chance he gets, and trust him to use the weaknesses of my character in a way that will enhance the experience for everyone at the table, including myself?

It has numerous advantages, you know. For example, I can invest in charms I actually want for my character, instead of the obligatory Paranoia Combat Suite + Social Invulnerability Ensemble.

>> No.28976042

>>28976026
Hatred is hatred, man. Amusingly, the higher your Compassion is, the better you hate.

>> No.28976073

>>28976034
You need the social invulnerability anyway after a certain point, otherwise you're just going to be out of willpower all the time. So you might as well invest in it early and have more control over your character.

Even a dawn caste can do this and still have some charms to reinforce their role.

>> No.28976104

>>28976042
True. Still, I tend to think Compassion 5 characters as people who tend to not kill outright, even for hated ennemies. Fates Worse Than Death (TM), however, are totally in character.

I guess it's just differences in interpretation.

>> No.28976112

>>28975923
Nope, "woman" and "man" refer to female and male humans, respectively. The person's psychological identification (the jargon definition of gender) isn't what determines them.

>> No.28976130

>>28976104
Just saying that it's perfectly valid to have someone of any particular virtue combination to utterly disregard others.

>> No.28976205 [DELETED] 

>>28976112
I think psychological identification is more important than genitalia when determining whether to call someone a man or a woman, or deciding what pronouns to use. Especially since transgender people usually have the brain structure of the sex they identify with.

One's mind is more important than one's body when trying to decide who one is.

>> No.28976239

>>28976205
I reject your worldview because I view the mind and body as a holistic experience, and that the transgendered have a disorder of the mind.

>> No.28976247

>>28976130
Nope.
Quoting the core : "Compassion measures a character’s caring for others." "Someone with
Compassion 5 always spares her enemies’ lives."

You might choose to do it otherwise in your game, but that's houseruling, not playing as writen.

>> No.28976251

>>28976205
And I believe that the biological definition is more important, not to mention much more clear-cut (not perfectly, I'll admit, due to hermaphrodites. I'd go with whichever trait was more dominant in that case).

>> No.28976283

>>28976247
Except that not true. Compassion 5 is perfectly capable of slaying enemies, as proven by Compassion 5 NPCs who do so without issue.

>> No.28976285

>>28976239
"mind and body as holistic experience"
"disorder of the mind"

Pick one.

Plus, not really my worldview. Scientific papers.

>> No.28976306

>>28976247
It's been shown and discussed as possible by the devs. Compassion 5 does not actually mean Jesus.

>> No.28976313

>>28976283
If the Core and a character write-up disagree, I tend to go with the Core.

>> No.28976317

>>28976073
You seem to think that loosing control of your character is some kind of horrible thing that should never happen.


I have to disagree. I suppose it's a matter of Player-ST trust. I personally have absolutely no problem with my GM having NPCs use UMI against my character, because I know he will do so only when necessary for the betterment of the game. And I know this because I am the one who teached him how to play Exalted, and I never took advantage of his character's social weaknesses to fuck with him.

Of course, when playing a character for which picking Integrity charms and building up my Social Defenses is necessary for character coherence and proper functioning, I will do so with ruthless efficiency (and will probably give my ST a heart attack), but absolute optimization is never our aim.

>> No.28976340

>>28976285
Scientific papers show that the mind of transgendered people is, in fact, incorrectly formed in the context of their genetic and other physical construction. We are currently of the social opinion that the body must be changed to match this, but it could easily have been different.

>Pick one.
A holistic view doesn't mean that individual parts cannot malfunction. It simply means that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

>> No.28976357

>>28976313
Devs also disagree. The blurbs on Virtues in the core book are hideously narrow in scope and robotic in application, which is a concern they were very public about.

>> No.28976360 [DELETED] 

>>28976251
Biological definition? Not really clear-cut with transgender people, really. They tend to have male genitalia and a female brain, or vice-versa. Those are both biological. Why would genitalia be more important there? (especially since the brain is the organ that, you know, thinks.)

>> No.28976375

>>28976360
Not just genitalia. Pretty much every other part is clearly of their biological sex. Only one thing is out of order.

>> No.28976379

>>28976306
Sparing your enemies' lives does not a Jesus make.

>> No.28976391

>>28976379
Irrelevant nitpick. The spirit of the statement was clear.

>> No.28976407

>>28976317
It's not a matter of trust. I only get one character. I'm not giving up control of it to anyone, no matter how much I trust them.

>> No.28976414

>>28976375
When something goes wrong with a system, you fix it by using the simplest method.


Modifying genitalia is easier than modifying brainstructure and a person's mind.

Ergo the brain isn't out of order, everything else is.

>> No.28976419

>>28976375
The brain is still the one calling the shots. As evidenced by the fact that when someone's brain decide to become an organ donor, he can, and no-one's going to fight for the rights of the liver, or the kidney, or whatnot. The same is true for any body modification, including but not limited to sex change.

>> No.28976436

>>28976407
Do you cry and throw a tantrum when you need to fill your character's health levels with damage, too? Death is, after all, a loss of control over your character.

>> No.28976442 [DELETED] 

>>28976360

The genitalia determine the actual development of the body, and what role they play (if any) in reproduction.

That's more important than what the person -wants- to be, which is what their brain patterns reflect. A person can picture themself as anything they can imagine, but the neurons carrying the thoughts don't change their body.

>> No.28976444

>>28976391
So, if a character with Compassion 5 can be as horrible and murderous as he wants (with the proper intimacies), what's the point of him having Compassion 5?

>> No.28976453

>>28976414
>>28976419

The brain is out order, but we simply lack the capability at the present time to realign it with the body. I would wager that, if possible, most transgendered people would have elected to never feel out of place in their body to begin with, much like people with clinical depression elect to treat the dysfunction in their brain.

>> No.28976472

Well, this quickly went to shit, didn't it?

Y U DO DIS, Exalted General? Why can't we have nice things, ever?

>> No.28976475

>>28976444
Keys into perfect defenses, affects Charms, colors interactions with non-enemies and so forth.

>> No.28976482

>>28976442
"more important than what the person -wants- to be"
Nope.
Or to put it less bluntly : who are you to decide what is more important for someone else?

>> No.28976500

>>28976442
Your role in reproduction does not define anything but your role in reproduction. Nothing more.

>> No.28976504

>>28976482
I am not the person with a malfunctioning brain.

>> No.28976515

>>28976482
Who are /you/ to do the same?

>> No.28976523

>>28976472
Not enough spoilers lately, therefore the fans nitpick.

>>28976453
As long as the brain is impossible to change, we should change the body. Once it becomes possible to do both equally efficiently, it's up to the individual to choose.

>> No.28976560

>>28976515
I'm not deciding, I'm saying what the person wants should be done. That person should decide. He is the one saying that genitalia is more important than that person's wishes.

My position leaves the transgender person free to choose what he/she wants. His doesn't. Thus I ask what right he has to take that freedom away.

>> No.28976563

>>28976523
I believe that it should be treated as a mental illness first and foremost, because it clearly is one (untreated, it often compounds with suicidal depression). There are many similar illnesses which we do not afford the same rights. This very thread shows the resistance to treating gender dysphoria as a true clinical disorder, a stance which I cannot say is reasoned or logical.

>> No.28976584

>>28976482

I'm the one who decides what -I- regard as more important.

Their decisions are certainly their own, but my language and my own decisions don't have to agree with them.

>> No.28976591

>>28976560
Untreated transgendered people are a danger to themselves and possibly others due to their escalating emotional instability as time passes. I think it should not be treated as a choice, but rather as a treatment to a very serious illness.

>> No.28976616

>>28976560
>My position leaves the transgender person free to choose what he/she wants.

You're either putting words in my mouth or confusing me with someone else. They can do what they want to themselves and call themselves whatever the hell they want.

My problem is when they start pushing me to verbally support them. Did you forget how this whole damn thing started -- a character that threatens people who don't use the pronouns that -she- wants.

>> No.28976650

Remember your basics, elegan/tg/entlemen.
Report and ignore.

>> No.28976672

>>28976360
>They tend to have male genitalia and a female brain, or vice-versa.
And murderers have a murderer brain and artists have an artist brain. Shocking news: Your thought patterns have a definite effect on the physical structure of your brain.

>> No.28976674

>>28976563
Gender dysphoria has been prooven not to be treatable as a purely mental illness, and treatable with biological treatment.

Untill we can re-write the brain, saying that it should be treated exclusively as a mental illness is effectively saying it shouldn't be treated.

Also, saying that it compounds with depression isn't an argument. So does homosexuality. So does every other personnal problem that is badly viewed (or outright ignored) by society.

>> No.28976691

>>28976650
What the fuck are we reporting and ignoring now? This shit is getting ridiculous, because this conversation has been incredibly civil.

What is your problem, jackass?

>> No.28976704

>>28976650
Disagreeing with someone is cause for a report now?

>> No.28976721

>>28976672
I'd say the physical structure of your brain has a definite effect on your thought patterns, myself.

>> No.28976726

>>28976674
You also cannot be counseled through clinical depression but it too is a mental illness. Just because it's a mental illness doesn't mean you don't treat it with medicine.

I don't think you understand what you're talking about

>> No.28976728

>>28976691
The civility of it is not a problem (and frankly more than a few posts have been quite rude, but nothing out of the ordinary for 4chan).
My problem is this conversation has nothing to do with Traditionnal Games or Exalted anymore, and thus has no place in this thread.

>> No.28976734

Okay, since we're mincing with identity politics, let's switch out gender for something as inane as names. Your friend Shitpenis had a terrible childhood because his parents were horrible and gave him a name that made his life a living hell. Working a shitty job at a fast food place, he eventually saves up enough money to change his name to "Steven" at age 18 (when he comes of majority) and then moves out.

There's a brief awkward phase where you have trouble not calling him Shitpenis and it's compounded by the fact that hearing that name makes him hella angry.

So he goes to the trouble of wearing a [HELLO MY NAME IS Steve] button all the time for a while and generally keeps a consistent Steve persona. The fact he gets so mad makes you uncomfortable, but it's a consequence of him living as Shitpenis for 18 years and having a lot of demons as a consequence. He's not a perfect guy, but he's your bro and has a lot of shit on his plate right now.

Are you really going to call him Shitpenis?

>> No.28976746

>>28976728
So we're not allowed to segue into other topics now? This is just how discussions go. Who the fuck declared you King of 4chan?

>> No.28976748

>>28976704
See >>28976728

>> No.28976774

>>28976734
Holy fuck, I am totally going to call him Shitpenis. This is the greatest thing.

>> No.28976787

>>28976746
The site has sections to discuss these topics.

When a "segue" takes a thread way past auto-sage, disrupting discussion about the thread's actual topic, it's not called a segue anymore, it's called a derail and shitposting.

If you are so keen on discussing this topic, I assure you the method for creating a new thread are not that complicated.

>> No.28976796

>>28976728
Discussion of gender disphoria has nothing to do with the game that has a, for all intent and purposes, a trans signature character?
The fuck?

>> No.28976802

>>28976721
As far as my current recollection of neuroscience goes: thought patterns create pathways, which then serve to reinforce those thought patterns more. It's a positive feedback loop, but it begins with conscious thought. This is how learning activities changes brain structure.

>> No.28976818

>>28976787
Go to hell. Posting about reporting is shitposting in of itself. You have no high ground

>> No.28976829

>>28976728
So we should report the posts on the PC side that drew the discussion away from Exalted? Because that's what happened, if you've actually kept track of the whole discussion.

It was about the hamfisted way PD handled her issues until people started name-calling.

>> No.28976864

>>28976796
Prince Diamond has become such a background concern to this debate that he is now flailing his arms vigorously from behind the bush all the way over there, trying to desperately get everyone's attention back on the topic of concern, which wasn't Gender Dysphoria, but Exalted. He even turned into a chibi. How can you deny the cuteness? You heartless monster.

>> No.28976877

>>28976802
It can't start with conscious thought, since neurons activity are the origin of thoughts (except if you believe in an immaterial soul, I guess, but then we're not really in scientific territory anymore).

Then again, I'd wager my next paycheck neither of us is a neuroscientist, so we're going at this pretty much blind, however much we might remember our biology lessons and the article we might have read.

>> No.28976880

>>28976734
1. PD isn't my bro

2. No one that he met would call him "Shitpenis" because it doesn't describe him in any sort of physical, objective way.

>> No.28976887

>>28976829
This is a quaint attempt at revisionnism.

>> No.28976961

>>28976877
You're getting too esoteric. While all thoughts are carried by neurons, they emerge from the information carried in the brain. This immaterial information both shapes and is shaped by the neural connections in the brain. We know this is true enough by measuring the change in brain structure by having people learn skills and focus on topics. Whatever or wherever this information actually is influences the physical structure of the brain in a measurable way.

Therefore, someone having a "male" or "female" brain is not remarkable since that reflects their self perception, just as someone who is a musician has different structures of the brain active than someone who is a photographer.

>> No.28976972

>>28976880
No one cares if he is your bro or not. You're latching onto the most irrelevant part of the comparison. The question is : if somebody changes his name, and you knew his old name beforehand, do you keep on calling him by this old name even though he asks you not to, or do you make the minimal effort it takes to refer to him with his new name?

If you don't, why?
If you do, why don't you do the same with pronouns for PD (or other trans, dereth, tia characters)?

>> No.28977030

>>28976887
Bullshit. Go back to the post that quoted the story about her and read the thread from there.

Amusingly, the guy who originally got pissed off calm down after two or three posts, then long after everything was fine, a few other people who were offended came and started it back up.

>> No.28977034

>>28976961
"immaterial information" doesn't exists. It's carried by neurons.

The difference in structure between female and male brain go WAY beyond the difference caused by habitual paths created when you learn a skill. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience_of_gender_differences

>> No.28977049

>>28977034
>linking wikipedia to discuss neuroscience
You poor soul

>> No.28977067

>>28977034
>This article needs attention from an expert on the subject.
That's more or less what I expected from you.

>> No.28977080

>>28976972
Not if the name is Shitpenis. Shitpenis is hilarious and I wouldn't dare pass up on that.

If it's not Shitpenis, then I'm not going to bother changing the way I speak to them anyway because it doesn't matter.

>> No.28977104

>>28977049
>>28977067

If you have better sources refuting what is said there, I'll gladly read and consider them. Until then... that's still better than whatever you remember from your last biology class.

>> No.28977118

>>28977104
No, what you've brought up is essentially worthless. Furthermore, it looks to be full of ridiculous biotruths.

>> No.28977121

>>28976972
The post was two sentences long. The second sentence should have answered your question, but I can elaborate if need be.

Your scenario is nowhere close to equivalent. Calling a biologically female "she" is descriptive and the norm. Calling Steve/Shitpenis "Steve" isn't forcing everyone to change their language in a lasting way, and no one would have any reason to default to "Shitpenis" when talking to him. They wouldn't even know he ever had the name, most likely.

>> No.28977125

>>28977030
It started with people trolling about PD being a crazy homicidal maniac that searches confrontation as much as possible. Which was swiftly disproven. Discussion then slowly evolved towards this shitfest we now have.

When I said Revisionnism I wasn't defending the other side. Manicheism is exactly what causes this kind of bullshit. Please take a step back and a deep breath before analyzing your own debates, as it helps staying objective despite the emotional charge of it.

>> No.28977165

>>28977125
PD is a homicidal maniac, it's not trolling. That's more or less what has been confirmed.

>> No.28977211
File: 558 KB, 1014x391, Vanguard.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
28977211

Anyone feel like storytime?

>> No.28977229

>>28977211
You're on /tg/, just assume the answer is always yes when it comes to storytime.

>> No.28977248
File: 26 KB, 183x275, get-out.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
28977248

>>28977165

>> No.28977264

>>28977125
> trolling about PD being a crazy homicidal maniac
Previous threads have included people flat out bragging her killing people. It wasn't trolling, and it hasn't been disproven, only disputed.

And there was a very GOOD discussion that dealt with the non-homicidal version right after that, before tumblr types decided to stir the pot.

>> No.28977317
File: 544 KB, 380x214, 1337204169206.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
28977317

>>28977080
>>28977165

>> No.28977400

>>28977264
>and it hasn't been disproven, only disputed

See v
>>28971626
>>28971674
>>28971710

These are apparently backed by dev commentary and available fluff.

Can you provide anything as solid, that might corroborate the fact that PD is a crazy homicidal maniac?
If so, please present your evidence.

>> No.28977500

>>28977400
You're claiming that everyone who said that PD kills people were -trolling-, when it's part of how the character was introduced to /tg/ when someone posted the descriptions of the 3E sig characters.

You're claiming that not only were they wrong, but they knew they were wrong and deliberately made false claims to piss people off. That's horseshit.

>> No.28977584

>>28977400
Funny, I remember the Devs saying that PD would indeed kill over this. They would just do so under the pretext of a duel.

Which is still fucking murder for 99% of Creation.

>> No.28977869

>>28977584
>Which is still fucking murder for 99% of Creation.
Dueling was only strictly illegal under the Solar Deliberative.

And even then the Lunars still fought non-lethal duels to settle conflicts with each other.

>> No.28977920

>>28977869
I meant more that 99% of the world stands no chance and PD knows it.

>> No.28977932

>>28977584
"Killing someone during a duel" "murder"
In our world, maybe.

>> No.28977964

>>28977920
They have the option to yield.

>> No.28977997

>>28977932
>In our world, maybe.
In the last hundred years or so. Duels have long been considered the best way to settle a matter of honor.

>> No.28978026

>>28977964
There's no reason for anyone but PD to think that the duel will be anything but fair. PD leverages her power as a demigod against mortals over a petty squabble.

This is incredibly in theme for Exalted, so I don't see why people fight it.

>> No.28978103

>>28978026

They're not fighting its presence as a theme in the game. They just see characters do it consistently (not as part of a Limit Break or when they're under UMI) over trivial shit as assholes.

Surprise, some of them want to track down the Solar that's doing it and make her face someone her own size.

>> No.28978118

>>28978026
Exactly. Lunars don't even bother to care if their duels are over who's "right" and "wrong", only to see which one is stronger in order to squash the conflict right then and there.

>> No.28978122

>>28978026
No one here is saying that he doesn't leverage his power over mortals. People are saying duels over honor do not make him a "craze homicidal maniac".

>> No.28978142
File: 287 KB, 1500x600, SoFaBRefinal.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
28978142

>>28977211
>>28977229
You might remember me from such group shots as this one!

The character was a captain of noble birth but modest means, recognized for his skill on the battlefield and virtue in the court, serving as the leader of the house guard for one of the Three Princes of An-Teng. He held the position largely out of nepotism- his father was the last captain of the guard but ailing, and he was the sole unmarried child who could accept the position. But where others might have contented themselves to the riches, he excelled and pushed himself to carry the family's honor as servants of their lord. Even before becoming one of the Chosen, he was popular in the South and Southwest, with a number of minor stories of dashing rescues and assassination attempts foiled (mostly of people besides his lord) to his name.

He was set for a relatively quiet life with an arranged marriage with a pretty wife with good land in negotiation, when the city of his lord's house came under attack. What came was not an army, but a tide- the skies crackled and buckled as lightning of many colors soared through scintillating clouds, the world beyond the walls swimming with malformed creatures and monstrosities of unlimited beauty. At the center of the army was a noble in brilliant crimson armor, riding a great flying wyrm of stone that loomed great enough to swallow the sky.

The Raksha had returned to the South, intent on setting the world back to unshaped perfection in a Second Balorian Crusade.

He intended to hold the gates but found himself alone.

The noble Dragonblooded who had indulged in many pleasures within the city fled by boat, while many of the house guard had thrown their weapons to the ground and begun saying their final prayers to the Golden Lord. Some went mad and many considered suicide. Van kept cool and began working out a plan to save as many lives as he could, but the Raksha would not simply let them flee.

They needed time to evacuate and a distraction.

>> No.28978812

>>28978142
Van rushed to the gates and climbed the highest tower, shouting at the sky until his lungs split and his throat was raw and numb. Men rallied beneath him, feeling hope, and the terror that loomed overhead came down to respond to the churlish little bit of static reality that dared resist her. Introducing herself as the Lion Raider Queen, she listed her stories in the Wyld and conquests and plunders within Creation, intending to break his resolve. It worked, and Van was whittled down to a sliver of his own will, burning through the very last of it to issue her a challenge: to resolve the conflict that approached in a duel. Amused, she accepted- declaring that he above all the other souls would be hers upon her victory. So sure of her victory, she even gave him an hour's time to ready himself.

The captain was crushed, but pressed on. He shook only when she was far away and kept the the task at hand, giving instructions to his men and advising his lord on the evacuations so that as many lives as possible could be saved from the horrors to come. Then, once all that was done, he found a solemn spot at a shrine to the Immaculate Order and began to pray. Above him was a statue of a beauteous woman with wings of fire striking down a twisted Anathema, wielding a strength he needed but did not have.

>> No.28978979

>>28978812
A voice called to him, mocking him for not even having weapons that would wound the fae queen. For intending to die. Hearing that, he felt anger. Anger at the Dragonblooded for failing to uphold their duty to the world, anger at his own weaknesses and especially anger at whatever thing above him had the strength to hear him but the gall to only offer mockery.

The voice told him to look, as the statue above him shattered. The statue had concealed a tomb, with a winged warstrider as its headstone. It asked if he desired the power to uphold his own ideals and fend off the monsters menacing the world. He agreed incredulously, feeling a chill as he stepped inside of the ancient cockpit and bound his arms and legs up in harnesses that felt older than anything in the world that he might have known. A face and a voice greeted him inside, now familiar and soothing as it guided him through the ways to usher the thing on, activating and attaching the machine's many weapons that had been hidden throughout the courtyard and taking to the sky in time for his duel.

The Lion was excited to find that in the place of a mere mortal she was now going to have a far greater prize, attacking with a manic glee to gain a quick victory. Gossamer rattled against Orichalcum and Orichalcum struck stone and crystal, the two titans exchanging blows that rattled the sky. When all had cleared, the ancient machine and the serpent were both damaged, forcing both their riders to clear in the middle of the air and assault eachother with their swords. The Lion was powerful and consistent, every strike hitting with the exact same precision and leaving Van a bleeding mess, while he lashed out with increasing desperation. It was he landed his first successful blow that he felt the dawn shine on him, grievously wounding the Lion. She retreated, fearing the permanent unmaking that is foreign to her kind, taking her armies with her in a gust.

Van plummeted to earth.

>> No.28979144

>>28978979
A hand of gold plucked him out and put him back into the cockpit of his wounded machine, allowing him to take back the reins and land safely. Shimmering hands reached out from the cockpit and caressed his face, telling him to live on. The spirit of the warstrider, already stressed to the limit by damage and the drain of operating with a mortal user, fell asleep forever. Van felt his heart twist, but pressed on again and returned home to say his goodbyes. He knew he was an Anathema now, a demon in human flesh that would be hunted by the Immaculate Order. An entire city had paid witness to their champion and his golden magic.

----

It all happened very fast at the end, as these things tend to. A man was glad to be his father's son and father only wished that he might someday return home. Heirloom things that a man wanted to return to his household were kept at his father's insistence. With all things concluded, he set off into the dawning sun, to find a way to return the woman locked inside his machine to life. And he wept.

>> No.28979223

>>28978142
>>28978812
>>28978979
>>28979144
In case anyone is wondering, he basically fell in love with the warstrider AI because it was a mental duplicate (and physically based off) of his first age incarnation, and she was kind of a narcissist. Throw in a bit of scrubbing by Lytek to make those memories a little less horrible in hindsight and he falls in love with it at first sight, rationalizing it as deep gratitude for bearing him out of his darkest moment and helping him save the city of his birth and the house of his (former) lord.

The last episode of the campaign was the party bringing the warstrider to Autochthonia after turning back a major invasion of Gem and her being overseen by technicians who were going to revive her. So the very first session of a new season would probably be her awakening, I'd hope.

Although it's late and those are stories for another time. Also man, I hope the thread doesn't get deleted soon.

>> No.28979650

>>28974639
Actually, it doesn't. West and Delzahn are exceptions.

>> No.28979836

>>28978142
>>28978812
>>28978979
>>28979144
>>28979223
Hey, I remember that. It's the only Exalted Draw Your Party image I've seem.

This thread has pretty much reached its limit. You should save that stuff in a text file and post it in the next one.

>> No.28979985

>>28979836
I'll repost next thread. With more images, or something.

Now I need to crash.

>> No.28980348

>>28979836
>Hey, I remember that. It's the only Exalted Draw Your Party image I've seem.
I've seen some others, but don't have them on hand

>>28979985
Well I'm going to screencap your story here, along with the DYP picture.

>> No.28980465
File: 684 KB, 750x2986, exalted DYP plus backstory.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
28980465

>>28980348
Aand here it is.

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