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28380180 No.28380180 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

This is the worst AP ever. Period.

Pathfinder general

>> No.28380219

What's so bad about it, OP? I haven't been followin this AP, but I dig the idea of a PF campaign around the concept of leading a crusade against the Worldwound.

>> No.28380280

First module:
Escort mission dungeon crawl.
Second module:
The module is a mess made mostly for promote the Ultimate Campaign book.
Third module:
Massive Mary Sue That Guy NPC which is vital for the development of the campaign.

More than a crusade feels like a sword and sorcery gay parade.

>> No.28380395

The whole AP is brutally railroaded, for some reason the guys of Paizo decided campaign traits are a big deal, forgetting players like to develop their PCs background.
As a DM you feel forced to make your players pick a campaign trait if you don't want to mess with their PCs development, which is a quite uncomfortable thing.

>> No.28381048

>Massive Mary Sue That Guy NPC which is vital for the development of the campaign.
Going to need more info on that one, since I haven't read it yet. How cringeworthy are we talking here?

>> No.28381111

Succubus with mythic tiers who is now CN, she used to be evil until one day she banged/murdered a lesbian priest of Desna. In her curiosity she decided to mind probe the lady while she was dying, being sucked into the Dreamlands. Instead of obliterating her, Desna decided to redeem her by whispering directly to her larval core, awakening her memories of when she was a mortal.
The conversion of Desna also triggered her mythic potential.

>> No.28381139

Is it just my imagination of has the Worldwound AP had a higher percentage of lgbt npcs than pathfinder's previous paths.

I mean there's always been some, but it seems like they're getting really into it in the latest one.

>> No.28381177

You see the half orc female paladin in the first module's cover? You meet her wife at the beginning of said module.
In the second one you must help a gay couple by rehab the bottom one of the relation of his addition to shadow demon semen/blood.
Third one you have the succubus who is omnisexual and ployamarous.

>> No.28381197
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Ah, time for this thread again.

Look, this is getting old.
If your GM can't handle reading your backstories, or you can't be bothered to work them into the campaign it's not the damn APs fault.
Maybe you needed "Sacred Prostitute", but guess what, in your background you were just that! Any GM worth his autism pills will act as if you had the trait.
As for the NPC, nope, not only is it not new, it's not even bad.
A redeemed succubus, or a penitent one is pretty old hat, though a nice protagonist compared to the usual holy crusader.

>> No.28381220

>nice protagonist

She shouldn't be a protagonist at all.

>> No.28381235

Reminds me of the one from planescape torment. I'l admit that the second part of the AP is annoying with the army management. But you can swap that around and remove the armies, turning it into an epic infiltration mission.

>> No.28381237
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So being close to a portal to the abyss raises the chance of you being homosexual.

Looks like westboro was right.

>> No.28381252



>> No.28381253

Arushalae is a fucking overpowered npc.
Succubus with Spy master levels and three mythic tiers of trickster path?
Once redeemed (which is ridiculously easily) and joined to the PCs party, the incursion to the Templars of the Ivory Labyrinth HQs is a damn pub crawl.

>> No.28381261


NPCs are allowed to do things. They're even allowed to succeed and excel at whatever they do.
If she were an artifact instead of a person, would that have been unacceptable? Be honest. Or do you just prefer the PCs be the ultimate badasses of the world, with no peer, equal and certainly no betters?

>> No.28381272

I prefer the PCs to be the focus of the story at least.

Sitting around to one side while an NPC proves how badass they are is not my idea of roleplaying, if I wanted that, I'd go watch a movie.

>> No.28381273

Are the campaign traits in this one more restrictive than the ones in Kingmaker? Because I felt like those were pretty reasonable as a way to guide you toward making a character who'd be able to join in with a pre-built campaign's plot.

Kingmaker had stuff like "you grew up nearby", "you belong to a noble house", "you don't quite belong to a noble house, and it's kind of an issue for you", and "you really like this type of sword". Really not restrictive at all.

>> No.28381277

It has some flaws in the gameplay mechanics (kingmaker-grade exploration in the third one, army using in the second) but it looks solid. Introduction of lesbian paladin/rogue couple and 2 gay soldiers seem to piss people off, but that's /tg/ for you. Just make them friends, or not romantically involved if you hate it.

People bitch about the CG succubus, and she's meant be a strong helpful npc in the campaign, but it's because this AP has a whole redemption theme, and many a villain or monster can be turned to the side of good if you try hard enough.

As a bonus it looks to be the biggest AP yet, leveling you uo 20 in the mid of the 6th AP, so you can use those awesome lvl 20 bonuses in the last fight against a cr26+ demon lord.

>> No.28381294

Tell me more? New lvl 1-20 classes to add to the core/base ones?

>> No.28381313

The ones you choose for Wrath of the Rainbow not only decide which mythic path your character will get when your PC ascend but also will decide which trails you will have to pass for get more mythic tiers in the third module. And with this I mean missions which aim directly to the PCs past.

Yes, is that restrictive.

>> No.28381331


>> No.28381334


It's not a story about the PCs, though.
Redemption is the story of the Redeemed. Unless you care to spin your evil party that way.

A good story, good roleplay, doesn't need the PCs as the focal point. In fact, I can't think of one good instance where they were the most important part of the game. That's basically masturbation.
It's about the PCs saving a nation, or faction, or intervening and tipping the odds.
Or did you think in, say, Rise of the Runelords, the whole of Magnimar needed your group to kill off the giant? No, but the GM makes it so it seems natural you do it.

>> No.28381353

Honestly, that doesn't sound terrible. If you're playing a prebuilt module, you're always going to have to compromise with the guy who wrote it. I mean, it'd be a pain if you had a character in mind before your group decided on that adventure path, but actually playing a character you wrote on your own is always disappointing.

>> No.28381356

I was very disappointed with Baphomet's portrait for the the fifth module cover. He looks like a junkie with a goat mask instead of an idealized physically mighty minotaur.
Common, that guy was the FIRST minotaur Lamashtu created when he was a mortal!

>> No.28381364
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This would be a hell of a playtest for the new classes.

My swashbuckler.

>> No.28381377
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>It's not a story about the PCs, though.

So why are they even there?

>> No.28381388

People forget they can change things around. AP's are written for the lowest common denominator, and it's the group and GM's task to make it their own brand of fun.

Wrath's deal is to sell Mythic Adventures and build the strongest regular PC's around seen in an AP yet.

>> No.28381401


It's the story of [Thing that Happened] as seen by [PCs]. Like all stories.
LOTR wasn't about two hobbits on a long journey of both geographic and sexual exploration either.
Most war stories aren't about the "heroes" and the honest hero stories portray them as anything but.

>> No.28381410

In Shattered Star you are hired for rebuild one of the most powerful artifacts created by no one than First King Xin himself, the guy who founded the Thassilonian Empire.
At the end the only thing you achieve is to rise an ancient thassilonian from the sea bed which causes a tsunami to destroy like 3/4 of Magnimar and activates an army of clockwork warriors commanded by the insane ghost of First King Xin

>> No.28381411

But that's wrong, the Worldwound campaign path is quite literally about the PCs.

They are flat out told that due to absorbing the power of the wardstone and gaining mythic powers from it, they themselves have to be the ones to save the day, because otherwise everyone is fucked.

>> No.28381414


>I will be...the Superior Succubus!

>> No.28381426



playtest is free on the pazio site but the site has kind of exploded. Someone needs to upload a mirror somewhere.

>> No.28381435

>That's basically masturbation.

Thank you, seriously, now i know how i will call those idiots who always want to be the center of everything.

Oh yes, fucking masturbator Dragonborn...

>It's not a story about NPCs, though.
So why are they even there?

>> No.28381440

>LOTR wasn't about two hobbits
A large part of it quite clearly was.

>> No.28381455


And remember, that half orc's wife used to be male, turned female by magic because the male wanted to be that way.

But that's my fetish so I'm a little okay with it.

>> No.28381484
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[Urge to join the ranks of Asmodeus church intensifies]

>> No.28381500

Paladin sold her magic sword to pay for an elixir of gender changing (worth like 1k to 5k if I remember). But the whole was a male before is only readable from a GM's point of view and never needs to even be said.

>> No.28381536

Yes, to no other than the guy who commanded the local cell of the Ivory Templars.
Of course, nobody knew but being her the one who discovered the corruption behind Staunton Vhane...

>> No.28381538


I don't get what's wrong with this.
Body dimorphism is a thing that happens. They have magic that can switch your bits around, solve problems.
I mean, fuck, you cast Awaken on something and it's not Bestiality anymore. Or whatever you call being attracted to rocks.
I'd wager my left nut Transmuters have a strangle hold over the sex industry.

>> No.28381588

I personally don't mind all this LGBT shit, but this is 4chan, it's bound ti make people rage. i'm more annoying at the shitty hexploration and paladin army in the second and third book, it seem's very slapped together.

Added to the fact that anyone who makes decent builds without min-maxing or optimization + mythic levels will wreck every encounter that is not one of the key mythic ones.

>> No.28381589

Fuck yeah, Asmodeus knows how things should be in the multiverse.
Men in charge.
Women in the kitchen.
Homersexuals buried.

>> No.28381673

What's wrong with people aroused by the writings of an ancient greek?

>> No.28381677

Me neither, I am too annoyed by how weak build are the encounters in the second module which should instead be focused into roleplaying diplomacy with other factions interested into help recover Drezen and then into the militar campaign.
The exploration hexes mechanic doesn't make any sense if you aren't going to colonize those areas like in Kingmaker in the third one.

>> No.28381734


To be fair though, all encounters are always weak.
They seem to think the party consists of Bard, Fighter, Wizard and Something Useless.
I've been keeping my group one level behind (at least) and really short on funds/high on threats.
So far only the gunslinger has died due to a crit from a giant.

>> No.28381766

The hexploration is meant to go scout the region around the newly liberated town. Makes some sense since the PC's are the baddest motherfuckers around, but yeah. But as a GM, I know how to simply tweak encounters to make them fun.

One thing about Paizo, is most of their encounters that involve class levels that aren't bosses almost always dump fighters/warriors. Change some of those, monster sorcs, monster alchs, monster witches. Some changes here and there and the PC's will have a challenge.

Stuff that is cr equal or cr +1 arent meant as a challenge and people seem to forget that. They are meant to use resources, spells, time and such, while the stuff +2 is a good fight, and +3/+4 is the big shit.

>> No.28381836

The Worldwound dedicated book haves plenty of ideas for make things quite difficult. However I had to rise the difficulty level a lot because my players' party is quite minmaxed.
Inquisitor, paladin, cleric and summoner.
The paladin is oathbound and he alone can fuck up with the demons teleport ability.

>> No.28381870

Starting with the Advanced template and max hp, and make sure no boss (they are always fucking solo) is alone, ever.

>> No.28382040

I try to stay thematic, so most of the encounters are demons, qlippoth or aberrations which could be found in the worldwound.
For example, I applied the Mana wastes mutant and the advanced templates to a group of six rock trolls during a night encounter.

>> No.28382086



>> No.28382407
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This is way too funny, thank you.

>> No.28383235

So is there an actual problem with this AP, or is it just lbgt stuff and crying about one strong npc?

>> No.28383264

whats the prestige class in this AP

>> No.28383614

In this AP? You mean that every one of them has a special one linked to it?

>> No.28383825

there's an escort thing at the start that i would have personally preferred handwaved instead of actually played out.
city gets attacked/devastated by demons, you and some NPCs that are later somewhat important for city building get trapped down there, you meet some fantasy sewerfolk, kill their rebels, and get their agreement to help before resurfacing. the point was to connect you to the three NPCs that fall with you and make it so you're safe until after the first wave of demon's leave since that includes a CR 25+ balor lord
since the sewer people are basically never mentioned again you could just start the PCs at like 3rd level or so, do some mild roleplaying while in the caves, and cut the sewer people and playing the sewers out, and jump to when they get out.
the campaign traits aren't too bad. 3 are basically "in your past you ran into some demons but got away, you may have been messed up a bit with demon magic" the others are "your parents aren't biologically related to you, you're adopted and you know it", "your family has been involved in the crusade for at least a couple generations" and "you dream about/feel connected to a certain god". it's really easy to change what trait connects to what mythic path.
there's some mass combat, hexploration, city building, and mythic tiers, so if you don't like those you may be disappointed.
some people don't like the succubus that can turn good, but as another anon said this AP emphasises redemption and gives you lots of people to redeem (druggie, his dealer, barbarian chick, brother of 2nd books BBEG, raiding party), she's just the most important one since she has lots of intel on the enemy, though there are other ways to get said intel

>> No.28383845

Is there ever a reason to take more than 2 levels in Witch if you're playing below level 10? The spell list is usually the reason to stay in a class, but a great deal of the Witch's spells can be replaced with Slumber. Those that can't can be easily bought on Wands or found in a new multiclass. In addition, you get a couple of 1st-level slots.

For class features, all you need are Cackle, Evil Eye, Slumber, and maybe Misfortune. You can get half in two levels of Witch, and the rest by using feats if they're important to you. That's all you need from the Witch to debuff your enemies. If you want to focus on buffing your friends, all you need from the Witch are Fortune and Cackle. Any other hexes can be gain by the Extra Hex feat. As a bonus, you get a familiar for free.

You may be worrying about save DCs. Don't. Evil Eye takes effect regardless if they make the will save which gives you a free +2 and can be extended indefinitely with Cackle. The save DC should be at minimum 18 for your class abilities. Their chances to succeed at the save can be further decreased if you want it to be. This is enough to cause an enemy to fail


>> No.28383946

I find the flavor of a good demon on your side to be fun. And you're right, city building and all is annoying, I say that as a Kingmaker GM. If you like roleplay, the first part of the AP could be fun with the npc's there. Remove hexploration, remove city building, add in more roleplaying, handwave some of the building, find good quests to the different parts of the worldwound, let the players have some personal quests to patch the missing stuff, all good.

>> No.28384094

>find good quests to the different parts of the worldwound
in the pathfinder's chronicles book "the world wound" there are plenty of ideas. also, one of the places it describes is called yathscar, and it says that a few years prior the place was attacked. i figure that means PCs went in and did some day saving, but for the life of me i can't find which book that's in. i'd like to request the knowledge of anon in this endever

also, for a straight combat encounter, mythical monsters revisited has an evil phoenix that was corrupted by the world wound you could throw at the PCs

>> No.28387253
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">It's not a story about NPCs, though.
So why are they even there?"

To give the PCs someone to play off of, you retarded sack of shit.

>> No.28389845

Won't you have to deal with pretending its not your fetish at the table?

>> No.28395810

Yeah pretty much, because having a smart spy NPC with knowledge of the inside of a demon's head and using her knowledge to act out on is exactly what the PC's do not need.

>> No.28396010

You're not reading a novel though. You are playing an RPG. You are supposed to be the main character, the narrative centre. You play a character not observe a story. Is it a little egotistical to want to be play the big damn hero? A little, but that's what you play for, if you want to build a compelling story together where the tale trumps the characters (more than you want to play an rpg) then write a story with the others.

>> No.28396051

But you pretty much play the one chosen true heroes of the war on demons, imbued with the sacred light of the ward stones and bearing Iomedae's blessings. If that's not big damn hero enough, in books 4 5 and 6 you raid abyssal realms, and in the fifth you singlehandedly (ok with like 4 players) kill a demon lord in his own castle.

>> No.28396081


The problem most people have with the LGBT shit comes from two things. First, that it seldom is information that the players need to know or will find out. It's kinda just tossed into your face. Like you're reading a bit about the character to find out how to play them properly then BANG you find out they're gay or some shit. Secondly, is that it is paizo's official stance that you cannot be against gay marriage and of good alignment at the same time, an opinion shared in their gods. All good aligned deities support homosexual relationships and/or marriage. So this does bother players who might hail to a more religious background themselves or feel that the two are mutually exclusive (sexuality/equality in marriage and alignment).

Personally, I really don't give a fuck, but whatever floats some people's boats man.

>> No.28396084

Does anyone have any opinions on Carrion Crown? I love me some horror/lovecraftian spooky games, and a whole campaign of spooks would be cool, but reading through it, the first real dungeon section of the game is full of...flying haunted shirts.

So does it get better, or should I basically re-write all the level 1 encounters to be more creepy than just haunted shirts?

I'm running CoCT right now, very much enjoying it, and playing through Jade Regent which is really good so far.

>> No.28396099

Now that's the kind of shit that sounds awesome. That sounds like what a story for an rpg should be!

>> No.28396129

It is rather in your face, but I think it is there if the DM wants to make use of it, if not, hand weave their genders to make them M/F, or simply 2 best friends, or something.

Yes, while book 1 starts of slow, it's what makes heroes, tough start ending with a heroic battle infused with the power of the Wardstones (OP for 1 fight). Then the queen of Mendev, leader of the fight against the demonic hordes comes to talk to you personally and asks of you to retake a city, by yourself (with a small army of 100 paladins, but still, you're the boss) while she takes the entire crusade south to make a distraction, for you.

>> No.28396153

So who is the best PF waifu?

>> No.28396173

You can go full Vivec and become a god. NPCs will literally worship you because you are a living god. Is that not enough?

>> No.28396178

I would a Lini.

The Snow Leopard can watch

>> No.28396183

The correct answer is Ameiko

>> No.28396191

Interestingly enough, I may join a game based from OP's AP.

1) NO guns.
2) Core Races.
3) 20 pointy buy.
4) Average starting gold.
5) 2 traits, one of which must be a WotR campaign trait.
6) No 3PP.
7) NO evil alignments.

Those are the rules for character creation, I'm thinking of playing a paladin, but I've never done one before. Only thing I know without too much spoilers, is that using a longsword should be important as a paladin in this AP.

>> No.28396200

Funnily enough, it's not really that important

>> No.28396226

Well yeah, why do you think the Lastwall War College rejected her. There were so many sexual harassment complaints against her during rush week.

>> No.28396236

IIRC you need to make "right" choices for 4 books or so before she ever consider you to be human being, not genderless caravan guarding force.

>> No.28396242

So far the other applicants is a synthesist, a rogue, some weird ranger/cleric possibly mix, and a fighter 1 going ranger 2 and then zen archer till 20. And an half orc paladin.

>> No.28396243
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Personally I'd say the reason it annoys me is because its pretty shoved in your face. It doesn't feel realistic, it feels like I'm being soap boxed at.

Best way I've ever seen someone do a gay character was a druid in our group, played by a totally hetrosexual dude, he had this background that involved his lover being a fey, them dying, he became a druid to try and sweet talk mother nature into letting him learn true resurrection to bring them back.
Eventually he hits the level where he can, big dramatic arc where he hunts down last items, casts the spell and a Satyr appears, druid breaks down crying as he kisses them and whispers 'you look just like I remember'
And that's how he gained the Leadership feat and a cohort. After that? Treated realistically, bias sometimes, some approve, most are more weirded out by Fey than gay.
If he'd done it WotR style then the druid would've been introduced wearing assless chaps under his robe and called upon the power of the god of cock love (LG naturally) to gain various gay domain powers (Prismatic spray is the level 7 spell!) and told the other party members he loved cock the second he met them by squeezing the barbarians package.

I don't like being preached at, by any side of any argument. I'm here to stab demons, take their loot and blow it on gear and wenches of my preference, male, female, lizard or none of the above.
I'm not here to play through a game of someone else's ideaology wank. Much less when they make it a central game mechanic/theme and tell me I'm evil if I don't give a fuck.
And that's why it annoys me personally.

>> No.28396250

Well you expect her to fall in love after the first one? She's just friendly before.

>> No.28396255

Are you referring purely to how she's written in the book? Because I think it's entirely dependent on your GM.

Then again, I wouldn't do the relationship thing in a game, I'm far too awkward for that and it would be weird with my friends.

But she's the most qt, IMO.

>> No.28396277

All of my friends are getting wifes for their characters in my KIngmaker game, so far I've done the finding, courting and whatnot on skype, text chat's easier for me to play a girl good enough. But I made them rather stereotypical, they went with it, keeping it clean. Mention 1 year later in game that your wife's pregnant, high fives all around, and we move on.

>> No.28396289

I think she has highest minimum romance score, or however it's called. Not to mention you've live whole life in same town and can be her brother/sister.
I have to agree that whole romance system is kinda pointless. Good GMs and mature players who want it don't need numbers, and said numbers won't help bad or not willing groups. It's basically... GM trap?

>> No.28396297

I don't know why Kingmaker is so popular, it holds so little appeal to me.

It's probably the most boring AP I've ever read.

>> No.28396298

True, but it's never an issue in-game. Girl you find has a lover, which happens to be an half orc paladin of some importance. That's it, and later on, you are given 2 strong npc's to help, a good fighter/leader and a scout. They also happen to be gay, and I don't even think it's mentioned to the players unless it's important.

>> No.28396321

My current Jade Regent game, my character is Ameiko's childhood friend, they grew up together until they were about 17 before he left for the military.

So he won't be hitting on her, since it's pretty established that they're just really good friends.

But the elf girl, that's a different story.

>> No.28396322

It's popular for the sandbox aspect and exploring, while other AP's seem limited and on the rails more often then not. I've gone to great lengths to give my players free reign while following the story, leading to some changes while keeping a good narrative balance. For example, with some diplomacy and good intentions, half of Drelev's encounters in book 4 have changed, and Drelev is on the PC's side.

I'l admit to hating the kingdom building aspect now that i've have a taste of it, but I let one of my players handle it for me because he doesn't mind. I just tell him to time-skip 3-4 years and handle the building there, and he does it and gives me details.

>> No.28396325


It isn't really. He's more likely referring to how it is presented to the GM and/or the Paizo staff's response to it all.

>> No.28396370

Guess I've never checked the forums and such. I'm imagining that some people, while not being homophobic, might feel it weird to have it presented in such a way?

>> No.28396402

I mean, as a GM, I would probably leave every single mention of homosexuality out. Because it adds literally nothing to the game. I don't care, my players don't care, but the game seems to really want to encourage me to make sure my players know "BY THE WAY THIS ORC IS GAY"

It's a waste of time and a really bad replacement for character development. You accomplish more by playing a character with a personality people want to interact with then just "Guys this character is a lesbian so care about her or you're a homophobe."

>> No.28396407
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Now I don't know a lot about Pathfinder itself, but maybe you guys can help me. I was eating at a restaurant called Gator's Dockside last night and I noticed that the menus were kind of strange.

The art under the text showed some islands and water, no biggie since this is a restaurant chain based in Florida. What was weird were the names of some of these islands. They were named things like Garund, Sarusan? and Arcadia, among some others.

Searching the internet, I found that these are the names of some of the locations in Pathfinder. I snapped some photos, some not of the best quality, but if anyone finds this interesting I'll upload the rest.

>> No.28396465

How would you go about having the same stuff play out, with the gay/lesbians without having it feel shoved in.

>> No.28396501


Basically, people every now and then have an issue with it. Usually its because the information is unneeded, or they feel that it conflicts with their own morality/religious beliefs. Some argue demographics but that should largely be ignored due to being a fantasy world. The official response has been that being against LGBT or LGBT marriage, is that it is being inherently against equality period and no positively (ie. good) aligned deities are against homosexuality or gay marriage period. People have requested access to a good deity with similar beliefs to their own only to be rejected. Others have come up with deities that they theorize to support their beliefs, only to have paizo staff fill them in on the truth of the situation. Good deities unanimously support LGBT rights. Even the deities of life don't care, so long as they raise a baby (eg. adoption counts). This offends some people, who now have characters or beliefs labelled evil or in the case of a best scenario (which it usually reads not to be - it tends to be evil) neutral. Some argue that this is Paizo supporting a political agenda, to which Paizo has responded basically "If you don't like it, take your money and posts elsewhere." which is quite frankly in their rights, but also not quite the response players want - considering they wish to be able to consolidate their beliefs and their hobbies obviously. There is also a degree of censorship in that posts are arbitrarily deleted or edited by Paizo forum mods and staff based on content they find inappropriate to this discussion.

This also can be confusing to some players as actions such as slavery are not inherently evil within Golarion. Its more often considered morally ambiguous or neutral. With the possibility of it being seen as allowable by Lawful Good or Neutral Good deities and characters. The difference in opinion towards slavery vs. homosexuality does bother some players as well.

Like I said before personally I don't care. Some do.

>> No.28396515

So it makes the Christians and other religious players butthurt, while some atheists, agnostics or whatever not care about the issue at all and go huh, alrighty then.

>> No.28396523

Wait, where is slavery allowed by LG and NG character, I thought that slavery was neutral, in the ultimate best situation, and usually evil in the others.

>> No.28396549

Wouldn't it just be better to have the AP go "hey, all characters can be any sexuality you want and here's how they'd do it"?

>> No.28396580


The Church of Saerenrae within Qadira has slaves. Its causing a schism within the faith, but technically their alignment has not changed.

>> No.28396663

That's odd, how are the slaves? Well treated?

>> No.28396713
File: 47 KB, 854x539, 1264811843761.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]



>> No.28396715

Except she didn't band the cleric, just killed her.

>> No.28396718

How about a story about the hilarious adventures of my 15 Year Old Half-Elf Alchemist?

Now she was actually like 100 or whatever. But Cinthia was, character wise, a 15 year old eccentric alchemist savant with a short attention span a lot of energy, and snap decision maker. She was hot blooded and rash. She is everything I am not, and I created her personality as a role playing challenge to myself.

Now Cinthia, despite her youthfulness, would become party leader. Of a party of around 8.

>in a city some time we visit a magic shop, I want to say we're around level 4. >The shopkeep is pulling magic items out rapidly and giving explanations about what they do, but not their exact mechanics.
>if we don't take the item when he has it out, we don't get another chance
>he offers a sword, the weilder will be made a hero! The sword is jewel encrusted, good quality
>the price is stupid low. I buy it on a whim, like my character would.
>as a player I know this is some sort of stupid gimmick ability.

>many sessions later and a whole quest later, and one Important one i miss, we are trapped in a snow-globe labyrinth.
>half the party is wounded badly, a few healthy players are absent. We leave them to guard the wounded/absent
>we advance to the next lower level attempting to secure a source of water and clear future threats
>it's a big, very big, very unlit, room down here.
>Only a spiral stair case up/down in the center
>huge columns spaced in a grid support the ceiling
>find 4 locked anti chambers. 1 on each wall. Can't open them.
>flying skeleton heads shooting lasers from their eyes.thehappening./tg/
>the cleric gets badly wounded, out if spells and the rogue is unconscious. Only myself and my barbar friend are standing
>i'm at 2 bombs remaining
>the anti-chambers open
>headless skeletons.fuckourlives
>about 20
>not tough, two bombs kills 8 and wounds 2 more
>The barbar engages, they're tougher in H2H


>> No.28396719


They're "redeeming their enemies" and tolerant of slavery. Other than that there is no real reason to believe they are treated any different than Qadiran slaves typically are.

>> No.28396724
File: 170 KB, 1350x924, aaa.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


That's straight up the Pathfinder world map.

>> No.28396841
File: 465 KB, 690x869, Arshea.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>People have requested access to a good deity with similar beliefs to their own only to be rejected.

But there is one already.

>There is also a degree of censorship in that posts are arbitrarily deleted or edited by Paizo forum mods and staff based on content they find inappropriate to this discussion.

And this is why I come and stay in 4chan.

>> No.28396842



Have we stumbled upon some Illuminati ancient secret shit?

Or does the guy who owns that restaurant just secretly love pathfinder

>> No.28396875


I was talking about a good deity against gay marriage in that part.

>> No.28396907


Well, they really don't have a choice.

You have to use a lot of censoring to maintain cognitive dissonance.
Especially when your reasoning can be used to justify almost everything in the world as good.

>> No.28396909

>the barbar, my lady friend, Kithra, cleaves the two wounded ones
>it's 10 v 2 and a now very unconscious cleric and rogue
>I know what must be done, I fish the sword out of my bag
>I draw
>it's time to be a hero
>as I draw, bright light emanates from the blade, brightening the room
>shades of black become note crisp, light becomes lighter
>5' 6", lithe of build, but healthy and of average strength
>she charges into the fray, the sword as natural in her untrained hands as if an extension of herself
>I cut a critical hit into the first skeleton
>the blade draws a glowing gash across its chest
>light screams forth from the "wound"
>the skeleton explodes into a cloud of dust and the cries of the defected undead
>filled with confidence and courage I stride forwards
>with boldness I wade into the fray, the kind of boldness only a 15 year old girl with a magical sword can have
>I kill 6 of the skeletons, with only minor injuries
>my rolls are spectacular
>The skeleton's abysmal
>the barbarian takes 4
>we retreat to our stronghold to lick our wounds
>I try to sheath the sword
>"take a willpower test"
>I fail
There's more if you like

>> No.28396946
File: 1.58 MB, 3264x1836, pfmenu2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I thought it might be, good to know someone else sees it too.

I don't know the owner, since the "primary" restaurant is in Jacksonville I think, and I live in Gainesville. I think it's whoever designed the map straight up just ripped off the first thing they could find from the internet.

You can see "Garund" on this one, plus another up top starting with "A".

>> No.28396956
File: 215 KB, 615x554, 4qij.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


Oh, well in that case, I suspect Erastil is their guy. All that talk about tradition and "strong communities" makes me think he at the very least frowns upon homosexuality.

>> No.28396958

I've only kinda scanned the first two installments of Worldwound but I am definitely concerned that 6 installments to get PCs from level 1 to level 20 with 10 mystic tiers is pretty damned quick and it's going to be hard as hell to adapt the AP to more or less than 4 PCs.

I also don't like how many encounters seem to be reliant on a single opponent because action economy pretty much dooms those NPCs unless they pull out some lucky early rolls and that way can easily risk TPKs.

It just seems poorly paced and poorly designed even if I kinda like the overall theme

>> No.28397005


Nope. To quote Paizo's own creative director:

"To Erastil's faith, matrimony means, at its simplest, "two people who are married with the primary purpose of raising a family and to work together to support their community." While interpretations of that basic tenet can vary from region to region and church to church, that's the basic. It doesn't matter if those two people are male/female, male/male, female/female, hermaphrodite/male, hermaphrodite/female, or whatever.

As long as they join in that sacred holy union in order to raise a family and promote the overall health of their community... that's what's important to Erastil."

"There's plenty of children in the world who need parents, first of all. A same-sex couple in Erastil's faith who get married would be expected to adopt and care for some of their community's orphans (or perhaps to care for children who are rescued from abusive households)."

>> No.28397007


Erastil is hardcore traditional family values. I personally would prefer if Paizo just shifted him into LN territory.

My personal canon would be for him to be a very old god that was initially LG but due to his myopia about the changing world has slowly shifted into LN without realizing it. He's still served by Angels and Archons but they've started to be more about the letter of the law than the spirit of the law.

>> No.28397100

That's actually kinda nice, it would be funny to have same sex couple be super conservative in Erastil's values.

>> No.28397146


Doesn't fit the suggested trait though. Clearly in Pathfinder, homosexual marriage is good. Opposition to such is bad. Or atleast that is how some players will argue.

>> No.28397172

Yes, but you can change that however you see fit, I do imagine that most players homebrew their own world and just take the PF rules to make it fit.

>> No.28397183


That's what you can do. I agree with you. However some people would like official representation because the current categorizes their personal opinions negatively.

>> No.28397248

You mean people who hate gay people or don't feel comfortable around them?

>> No.28397282


You don't have to hate gays to oppose homosexual marriage. But that's just gonna get into semantics.

But effectively yes. Some players have issues separating their out of game politics from in game. Paizo currently supports one side and it bothers them. Especially because the current support paints their side as evil as opposed to good or even neutral.

Either way, the thread is a fucklong mess and not even worth reading. It contributes nothing effectively other then each side being spiteful to the other.

>> No.28397308

>Third one you have the succubus who is omnisexual and ployamarous.

When are they not?

>> No.28397459

This thread? Originally it was about is Wrath of the Righteous is a good AP. I still think it is, even if you're not a fan of LGBT issues. As with every AP, it has flaws like weak encounters or odd ways of thinking how the PC's would tackle a problem, but for what it brings and the epicness of the campaign, it's a good solid adventure to run trough 1-20.

>> No.28397475


I meant the thread on the Paizo forums in question.

>> No.28397485

Ah yes, I found the one about the so called trap options, but it turned into a 15 page bow vs crossbow option. I have a friend playing a crossbow ranger at level 15, he's doing very good, handles every encounter, good damage. But we all know that if he went bow, he'd be pushing ridiculous damage instead.

>> No.28397698

So, for anyone who's assaulted Drezen Citadel, or run a group through it, could the GM resist making the succubus who pretends to be Iomedae scream out "LET JESUS FUCK YOU" when she attacks?

>> No.28397715

Where is that monster?

>> No.28397768

Sword of Valor, the second book in the series in a chapel, in the Drezen Citadel
>A succubus named Janeamine has claimed this chapel as a sort of "workshop" for her crusader pets. The four crusaders she keeps have served her for many months, and are not only kept charmed but also bear her profane gift (the +2 bonus applies to their Constitution scores). Janeamine enjoys leading her pet crusaders in debased prayers and highly sexual rituals where she takes on the appearance and role of lomedae-it's this form that she wears when the PCs arrive.

>> No.28397774

PCs are just there for my NPCs to play off of.

And hot damn anon, it's nice to not be in the spotlight sometimes. Unless this is your wish-fulfillment or something, in which case that's another problem all together.

>> No.28397783

Oh right, although I imagine most players will meta the encounter, not act surprise and attack her. Kinda wish I didn't have genre savvy players.

>> No.28397805


When was the last time a group actually fell victim to the succubus pretending to be a fair maiden held captive by the BBEG?

If anything I feel the need to subvert the cliche by actually having the girl be a legit girl that they feel bad for attqcking

>> No.28397809

I played through the first part, dungeon crawl like everything else ever. What were you expecting?
A political intrigue demonlord sandbox path?

>> No.28397825

I guess it's a setup for the genuinely repentant succubus in the third book. Maybe.

>> No.28397831

I don't think it's so much Genre Savvy as Not Totally Stupid ("Hey guys does Iomedae usually have an evil aura?"). I mean it says right after that the succubus doesn't really expect it to work.

Paizo subverts it be having another succubus disguised as a swashbuckling dude

>> No.28397881

If they don't have a paladin or someone with detect evil (totally possible) they can't see the evil aura. But yeah, possible to subvert it and make her a normal brainwashed human or something, and the succubus one of the crusaders.

>> No.28397934

True, but you'd probably want her to be under strict orders from a Glaabrezu or other such subtle demon. Succubi don't strike me as being too interested in letting others be at the centre of attention

>> No.28397943


Yeah because a Paladin with basically endless detect evil is going to be horribly uncommon in an AP set in the worldwound where demons are going to be a standard opponent...

It's like the AP is basically designed around having at least a paladin and a cleric and a inquisitor

>> No.28397952

I'l wait for the 3 other books to come out. Problem is I really want to play the campaign and not run it, so I'm trying to be spoilers light with myself. I know how some things happen, but if no one wants to DM I'l run it myself.

>> No.28397970

I know I know, especially wit the free upgradable Holy Avenger in book 1, the setting's *made* to have 1 paladin in the group, and another divine caster. The other 2 characters can be just about anything else. Cliche party would be a Paladin, Cleric, Celestial Sorcerer and possibly a skillmonkey to round things off

>> No.28398026

My group has a Summoner and a Druid instead of a cleric. Fuck your southern gods, we Sarkorians are taking back our homeland with the old ways!

>> No.28398028


Gonna need a wizard I figure for the higher levels because Batman is always needed when you end up going to the Abyss to fight demon lords.

I have a hard time seeing how a rogue wouldn't be completely useless in this campaign once you get past the low level dungeon crawls. A Bard with the mythic marshal would probably be a good thing

>> No.28398129


Hahaha holy fuck 2 pet classes plus all that summons spam.

Action economy is going to steamroll the fuck out of most of this APs ecounters because solo villains are a shitty design okay Paizo.

>> No.28398136

lvl 20 ending with 10 mythic levels, don't always need a wizard. Hell these AP's are made to be more or less easy mode, and if you follow some of the monster's battle tactics (as written in their stat blocks) they aren't fighting as cheap optimized mobs. 1 paladin, 1 bard, 1 alchemist and 1 oracle (just throwing this out randomly) could do this easy.

>> No.28398152

Solo villains is indeed shitty design, all of my end chapter bosses have mobs, or at least easy summon monsters and prep time. The boss of wrath chapter 3 is listed as having a truck load of summon monsters with a lot of prep time.

>> No.28398192


A full arcane caster definitely isn't necessary but it's nice to have at least some access to level 7+ arcane spells without using bullshit like leadership or NPCs.

But yeah Vivisectionist to cover the rogue functionality, bard to cover faceman, oracle to cover divine spell asskicking and paladin to lay the smite down is probably more than enough to truck this AP especially with mythic tier abilities.

Hard to pass up the chance to play with the mythic wizard though

>> No.28398221


I haven't uhh found chapter 3 yet but encounter design in chapters 1-2 has seemed mediocre at best but I also understand that they have limited wordcount to develop 1-20 class progression + 10 mythic tiers.

But even kingmaker kinda struggled to be coherent and it ended at level 18, I can't imagine the final couple of chapters in this AP working well at all especially with the mythic BBEG statblocks being retardedly big

>> No.28398379

This ap will bring you to lvl20 in the mid of book 6, so for once, you get to use those big bad skills you get at lvl 20 without needing some post adventure content.

>> No.28398409

Hey, /tg/, this thread has me thinking:

What if there were an RPG where EVERYONE can become the main characters? I'm not talking about DnD, but I AM talking about the ridiculous nature of Epic DnD. Epic Characters in DnD can become immortal in nothing flat, with no problems whatsoever. Imagine a world where there were SWARMS of Epic-like characters, everywhere.

A popular pass-time in this world would be astronomy, because most of the Epics are all in space, battling one another and various interdimensional gribblies that continually burst forth from reality.

Meanwhile, the planet is in constant turmoil as super-artificers, elder wizards, and hyper druids all advance technology and improve humanity's ability to survive in this world, while the Order of the Preserving Light, a group of 100 ultra paladins zips around the world putting down omega necromancers and defeating mega warlords to protect the fragile civilizations on this planet.

All the Epics are so busy countering one another and other threats, or just uninterested in mortal affairs that people are forced to rely on themselves for anything less than a Giga-dragon attack or a rogue deity.

The players all begin as Disciples of one or more of these ultra-legendary beings and must train hard to join the ranks of these terrifyingly powerful creatures.

Or they could escape this nightmare world like some other people have done, to escape the chaos.

>> No.28398469

Let the owner know they should change their menus before Paizo sues them.

>> No.28398523
File: 259 KB, 1600x900, 1226911-19_desire_demon.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


Sounds very familiar.

>> No.28398531

The ultrapaladins need attendant swarms of high-CR angels and archons who follow them everywhere and clean up after them, so that whenever they roll through town the celestials leave behind everything rebuilt in beautiful gold and marble everywhere.

>> No.28399022

Yeah, that was the idea.

>> No.28399609

>see goddess of paladins in the middle of a demon infested fortress
>think it may not be the real one, especially since you've met the real one and she say's she won't be able to help you any more (book 1, page 54)
honestly if it were real the demon's would be ash. you don't need to metagame to think that

>> No.28399776

Well I haven't read that far into the story. I saw someone else say that even the succubus doesn't think it will work, but that it's worth a shot.

>> No.28402192

Someone's running this as an online campaign on the Paizo forums...tempted to join. 20 point buy, core races, every class but the gunslinger accepted, seems fine.

>> No.28402673

The fourth module of this AP you go to the Midnight Isles, which are a chain of floating tropical paradise archipelagos and the personal realm of Noctycula, the first succubus, demon lord of prostitution, lust, shadows and assassination by contract .

>> No.28402846

It will not be out of place, after all Pazuzu does have the possession special ability if you say his name out loud and you are good aligned.

>> No.28402994

Who the fuck needs anthropomorphic deities when you have the Green Faith and god callers?

>> No.28403528

Mother Gaia man

>> No.28404918

Will forum RP still be the full experience?

>> No.28405944

It will be...different. But now like 30 people registered characters, so my interest has dwindled. I should have guys pre-made and copy paste them. Meh

>> No.28407001

Next there will be NG druids who are in a canon relationship with their animal companion. Then we will be treated to a gnome bard who fucks little girls, And if your paladin so much as looks at them funny he will fall.

>> No.28407101

thats a slippery slope argument

>> No.28407235

fuck yeah, now you just need a barbarian and you're going all earth wrath on some cunt demons.

>> No.28407364

well, if there are such a shitload of kids needing raising i could see gods not caring about sex. our whole "gay is bad" thing stems mainly from small communities needing people giving birth to continue to exist. assuming its easy to adopt that would render that moot.

>> No.28407733

>slavery is more moral than not accepting gays.

>> No.28407761

that is pretty weird, but i think the only good slavers are those one in qadubops, who are redeeming bad guys. the rest are all generally evil.

>> No.28407782


And slippery slopes are almost always true.

>> No.28407865

Except thats retarded. beastiality and pedophillia are looked down upon by the public, and any game supporting it would be seen in a negative light.

by including gay characters and all the lgbt stuff, piazo is reflecting the public opinion that gay people are not evil monsters trying to steal husbands and wives. animal and child molestation has no such support that anyone takes seriously.

>> No.28407950

Please go back to high school.

>> No.28408098

So basically we're there to spend 5 hours watching the GM talk to himself?

>> No.28408296

You are clearly evil because you dislike pedognome.

>> No.28408340

>beastiality and pedophillia are looked down upon by the public
This is about what's good, not what's popular. Slavery is unpopular and it's not evil.

>> No.28408478


Alright nigger. Whatever you say. Gay marriage just got all legalized and shit, yay. Now they're working on making pedophile an official 'sexual alignment' just like any other. Then it becomes LGBTP, and thirty years down the road YOU'RE A PEDOPHOBE FOR THROWING ROCKS AT OUR PEDO PRIDE PARADE!

It wasn't so long ago nobody seriously supported gays either, and it was widely known that they were sick damaged people who shouldn't be encouraged. It wasn't so long ago women couldn't vote. And so on.

If you want to be blind and see the last 300 years or so hasn't been one big giant slippery slope with a bunch of assholes making the same arguments you are now, go for it.

>> No.28408485

we were not talking about slavery at that point, and further, yes, the slavery thing is weird but why would that cause beastiality and pedophillia?

>> No.28408527

>Now they're working on making pedophile an official 'sexual alignment' just like any other.

no, they arnt. no one is. at least no one but pedophiles, and who gives a fuck what pedophiles think.

>> No.28408541

Holy shit when did this thread get invaded by /pol/tards?

Seriously comparing homosexuality to pedophilia and bestiality?

That's some Santorum level rhetoric you mouthbreathers.

>> No.28408586


That's not it. It's just they'll all use the same tactics to get acceptance, and those tactics always work. They've worked time and time again, and they will continue to work.

>> No.28408589

Why are you so afraid of people with alternate age and species orientations?

>> No.28408621

you mean LGBTHEP

>> No.28408639

screw it, ignore them. /pol/ has no power if you dont feed it.

>> No.28408771


It's just strange /tg/ is typically gay and happy about it with a major helping of /d/ickgirls so this /pol/ tier trolling just seems out of place.

>> No.28408829

/tg/ only likes each other's dicks in their face. A big company doing it is just wierd.

>> No.28410403

>If you want to be blind and see the last 300 years or so hasn't been one big giant slippery slope with a bunch of assholes making the same arguments you are now, go for it.
On the other hand, we admit those people making the arguments in the past were right, so maybe it's a reverse slipper slope, and we're the bigots for not wanting to follow it. Who's to say future generations won't be right to call us whatever-phobes when they do?

>> No.28410459

Stop replying to obvious old bait

>> No.28411021

Just accept that a fallacy got called out. Whether it was a troll or not doesn't matter.

>> No.28411040


Isn't Lisa what'sherface who runs Paizo a lesbo?

>> No.28411096

>So this does bother players who might hail to a more religious background themselves or feel that the two are mutually exclusive (sexuality/equality in marriage and alignment).
So why does Paizo need to care about bigots?

>> No.28411177


>hey if everybody in the future says it's cool to fuck animals and little kids, lets go for it!


This is what I don't get. This isn't any kind of fallacy, it's historically a very fucking strong trend. It's been happening for centuries now that people are becoming more and more permissive towards things that used to be considered deviant, and giving more and more rights to people that used to be considered mentally unwell (at best). And it's just going to stop right here right where you want it to?

>> No.28411270

The fallacy is that we assume we're right and people in the future, further down the slope, are wrong.

But of course what the trend tells us is that while we're right about the past being worse, we're wrong about the future becoming worse. It will be better, and we are simply too bigoted with the biases of today to be able to accept it.

>> No.28411315


But I don't assume we're right now, so I especially don't think anybody further down the slope is right. We haven't been right since we lived under the divine right of kings. So how is a nigger gonna call me out on this supposed slippery slope fallacy?

>> No.28411357

Holy fucknuggets
Isn't this meant to be a kids/young adolescence game?

Pick two

>> No.28411375

>We haven't been right since we lived under the divine right of kings.
What? We've only been getting better since then.

Society has become better with each wave of reform, and will become better still with each future wave, and our biases don't change any of that.

>> No.28411405


Paizo seriously has this weird thing about telling you the sexual orientation of characters.

>> No.28411430

They're paying customers? Besides, "bigotry" means just having principles you are bigoted against.

>> No.28411450

I'll check my privilage but do we really need to know? Does it come up much besides the occasional in-game romance? at least from a not ERP/Neckbeard view? The wizard is gay, not much changes.

>> No.28411484

So the party is fucked once it reaches level 8.

>> No.28411531

my question is why does anybody CARE that they list it? they could say they are all strait and its the exact same level of information. why are ppl so uppity about them saying gays exist.

Counter to this is likely that they are only listing it for the draw and token-ness of having one but...so what

>> No.28411534

>Does it come up much besides the occasional in-game romance?
depends on the DM, but mine basically just had it be that the half orc pally and her lover kissed when they were reunited and then never really brought up again besides them always wanting to be partnered up. and the gay couple i didn't even know was gay until i read the thing myself. i thought it was just a priest that actually cared whether one of his sheep was on drugs or not

also, the redeemed succubus isn't polyamorous, it flat says that she's looking for a serious lover

>> No.28411563


Naw nigger. Society superficially seems better, but that's purely because our technology is so fucking god damned awesome as hell it's making up for the fact it keeps getting worse. Our shit is just so cool we can get away with these shenanigans. Drop us back to, shit, 19th century technology, our society would be shown for the flimsy and messy thing it is.


Maybe some guys will give him a really lispy voice to drive the point home. It usually doesn't matter though. It's just there so they can say 'yeah check it out we're totally modern and inclusive.'

>> No.28411593

How would having worse technology make bigotry seem better?

>> No.28411607

>Isn't this meant to be a kids/young adolescence game?

I don't believe you seriously mean this.

>> No.28411618

This is also their first gay male couple that is actually visible; all of their other gay couples have been lesbians.
Lesbians are not progressive, and it's only now that they're starting to realize that.

>> No.28411622


>> No.28411669


We were bigoted in certain ways for hundreds (thousands?) of years for good reasons. Those reasons still exist, but are more distant thanks to our technology.

>> No.28411688


They had gay couples in Rise of the Runelords.

>> No.28411699

Yeah, like female privilege and the expendable male were important in the past because women needed to be kept safe from wolves or the whole tribe would die out. Guess what, that's irrelevant nowadays.

>> No.28411716

Who never appeared outside of the NPC list in the back of the first volume, yes. That's why I said "visible".
You can tell that most of their designers are male.

>> No.28411718

In most older novels - Tanith Lee, Mercedes Lackey, Poul Andersen, etc - homosexuality was used as an earmark for "decadent and decaying societies."

I personally think PF AP writers roll dice for the sexuality of any given couple.

>> No.28411720


>irrelevant nowadays

It's deeper than that, you know. But even you see that the idea is right.

>> No.28411745

What I don't see is that things are somehow truer if they apply when we're living in caves.

That's never going to happen again. What's important now is how to live in cities and metropolises.

>> No.28411759

...The main character of Lackey's Last Herald-Mage series is gay and it's not presented as a bad thing at all.
In fact, I quite enjoyed that aspect of it, when I read it as a teenager.

>> No.28411794


You're thinking shit like 'wolves' man. That's obviously not a problem. You're missing shit like 'social cohesiveness' that are more ephemeral but always important.

I mean, we'll see man. Either our technology keeps getting better and we can keep on with these shenanigans and then we hit the Singularity and who the fuck knows what then, or we deviate beyond what our technology can shield us from and who the fuck knows what then but in a bad way.

>> No.28411846

Ephemeral doesn't mean what you think it does.

No, we don't need blacks enslaved and women not voting for social cohesiveness. Social cohesiveness is a society getting along, which can happen in good and bad societies, so it's utterly irrelevant.

"We'll see"? We are seeing: every day things keep getting better is another day we're seeing that progress works.

There have been doomsayers since the beginning of history. You're neither the first not the last. There will never be a time when people won't be able to say exactly what you're saying.

>> No.28411951


And since the beginning of history, civilization after civilization has been ground into dust by time. All those dudes who say 'this shit's coming down' sure seem right in that sense.

Except maybe, just maybe, China, which can be argued to have been a single civilization since the dawn of time, and is notoriously socially conservative.


>Social cohesiveness is a society getting along, which can happen in good and bad societies, so it's utterly irrelevant.

That's wrong. Everybody in society getting along well is pretty much the definition of a good society. You might think a society is evil for persecuting gays and sacrificing virgins to the gods, but if everybody in the society is happy with it, it's a good society.

But whatever nigger. You think the best society is one where everybody gets to follow their own dream whatever crazy shit it may be, I think the best society is one where everybody works towards a realistic and positive common goal. We'll never see eye to eye.

>> No.28412091

>All those dudes who say 'this shit's coming down' sure seem right in that sense.
Except all the ones who said it about our civilization. They, and you, and all the future prophets in your place, haven't been vindicated.

>You might think a society is evil for persecuting gays and sacrificing virgins to the gods, but if everybody in the society is happy with it
Because gays and virgins just love being persecuted and sacrificed.

No, social cohesiveness is different from good. If you think persecution and human sacrifice are good, that speaks only of your revolting view of morality.

>We'll never see eye to eye.
Not if you deny it's a possibility. If you do that, you'll let yourself become dust under the feet of people with more will, who forge their own destinies.

>> No.28412109

>Because gays and virgins just love being persecuted and sacrificed.
weren't there some places where being the sacrifice was seen as an honor

>> No.28412161

South America, but they sacrificed kids raised from childhood to want it, and I don't doubt that even if they did know what was actually happening, unlikely, they would have changed their minds once the knife or mountain cold starting cutting in.

>> No.28412292

>And since the beginning of history, civilization after civilization has been ground into dust by time. All those dudes who say 'this shit's coming down' sure seem right in that sense.

yes because thats a basic fact of reality. its like saying "the tides going to come in, therefor gays should be burned"

>> No.28412326


The feelings of the gays and virgins are unimportant compared to the general feeling of the whole. That's what I meant with that last bit. It's what you don't get.



See how we're diametrically opposed?

>> No.28412411

>No, social cohesiveness is different from good. If you think persecution and human sacrifice are good, that speaks only of your revolting view of morality.

hey now, while treating people poorly because of their sexual preference is abhorrent and a societal relic destined to be wiped away, human sacrifice is awesome.

>> No.28412430

Nah, our difference is feelings vs reason. A society that doesn't lynch gays and cut the throats of virgins is better than one that does, for everybody in it.

You simply hold that they should still lynch and cut if they feel like it, while I say lynching and cutting is, like, really dumb.

Society vs individual doesn't matter. I'd say an individual lynching and cutting is dumb, but I bet you'd defend that. If you wouldn't, how many friends does our bigot have to bring with him for lynching and cutting because they want to to become the right idea?

>> No.28412449
File: 122 KB, 750x300, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Any advice on running this?

I'm considering using this as a Guideline for my game. I'm having it take place in (Magic the gathering) setting Innistrad.

>> No.28412546


Man, you seem to be incapable of even picturing or understanding a society at large. You can picture individuals, and small groups that compose a small unit of society, but not a society at large.

You believe I support lynching as a personal matter, which I never suggested, but you just can't see that what I support as a personal matter isn't (or at least ought not be) relevant at all. You apparently can't conceive of a single person, or small group of people, subsuming their desires below the desires of a society at large. You can certainly understand, and even expect, a society at large to subsume it's desires for an individual or subunit of society.

You and I are coming at this with such radically different mindsets that we can barely communicate, which is why I come off as a bigoted gay burning Klan member to you, and you come off as an ignorant mangina and probably zoophile to me.

This is just one of those things that happens in a society without social cohesiveness, like ours. It's a bad sign. I wish I could earnestly communicate with you, but we're pretty much speaking different languages trying to communicate complex ideas.

>> No.28413594


Been wondering, how do you think Arshea fits in with Lashunta society. Lots of magic?

>> No.28413628

Lashunta actually glorify mental achievement over physical form. Very likely they have no worshipers of Arshea because they have no issues with sexuality, sex, or other need for freedom from such matters since the mental growth of a person is far ore important than anything about the body.

On the other hand, mindsex among the Lashunta is hot.

>> No.28413656


What bestiary are they in, cause I don't have anything on their society.

>> No.28413799
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>>28396243 here

On the whole 'anyone who doesn't like it being there doesn't like it being there because of their own personal beliefs/bigotry' thing.
I've got to say that's simply not true. There's a huge chunk of us out there who have the following view.
I don't care
I'm all for gay marriage, I honestly don't mind anything anyone does really, my best friend is a ginger transvestite and at a Con I spent hours playing with the indie crowd, who were full on rainbows, and we had a right laugh.
But I resent the LGBT pushing here for the same reason I don't like the feminist push against video games.
It's pushing an agenda in my face. Which I find incredibly offensive because I play games because they're fun, not because I want to be lectured to.
Not only that?
Its unrealistic. It's unrealistic for a world like Pathfinder, which is fairly well textured and has a fair number of conflicting viewpoints to unite along alignment lines on this one issue, utterly objective. There are NO good characters who are uncomfortable about homosexuals? At all. Bullshit.
Basically its turning 'well I don't feel comfortable about that man in a dress' into the stuff of summoning demons and necromancy. It takes what is a very grey area in real life and makes a huge opinionated statement about it. You say a word against the gays? Here's your black robe, lemme tell you about Asmodeus new brother. And of course, all LGBT characters are either good guys, or at least not bad guys (Barring stuff like Succubi who are a tradition) because god forbid we show people being complex or having personality traits that don't line up with the statement we're making through our game.

>> No.28413882
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I don't care for your political agenda.
I don't care for having it pushed into areas of my life where it's unwanted.
If you asked me on the street corner, or in a bar, if I thought gay marriage was fine? My automatic answer would be 'let them go for it, it doesn't concern me'
But if I'm at home, having a cup of tea and a man walks into my house, slaps it out my hand and asks me why I'm not doing my part to advance gay rights right fucking now. I'm going to tell him to get the fuck out of my house.
That's not homophobia. That's not unreasonable. That's apathy.
And you're not going to make a friend of me by screaming at me that I'm a bad person for not giving a shit and taking your belief or ideals into every aspect of my life, if it makes sense or not (For example, in a medievalish fantasy world setting with very medievalish ideology in general where other subjects are treated fairly reasonably grey outside of cosmic good and bad; I don't expect you to throw down Gaybasher Lich at me as a BBEG because oh noes! Teh gays! At least have him slap a puppy or some shit first, or present every god, regardless of opinions or ideology outside of this issue, to line up on yes or no, regardless of character outside it; Erastil for example is shown as being very, very conservative, having him be all grumbly about the lack of kids makes sense, hell include a ritual his priests have where a gay couple who marry under Erastil have to go have a kid with another gay couple of opposite gender who live under Erastil and suddenly its far more interesting a take on his ideals towards them.)
In fact you're turning a moderate on your side, into someone who thinks you're an asshole who can't leave your problems at the door, not your cause mind you, just you.
If you want to get your message to me, put it in a leaflet or make it subtle, don't tattoo it to my dog, then call me an asshole because I don't appreciate it.

>> No.28413932
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Oh and before anyone screams 'well you just don't like gay people' at me or some radicalized opinion invalidating bullshit.
I'd be equally offended if did a book that mentioned a higher percentage of gayness amongst orcs and other 'degenerate' beasts, had all the good gods quoted with an attitude of ADAM AND EVE BRAH, NOT ADAM AND STEVE, had the Queen of Succubi have a harem of elite gay guards; then they did an entire campaign about playing Paladins bringing people back to the 'right' way of life, where you have to trawl through succubus-influenced transvestite cults and the last boss at level 20 was Gaydzilla, the metrosexual Kaiju who does 3d10 gender confusion damage to all creatures within a 100 foot radius, unleashed by the cult of the gay agenda to destroy our glorious heterosexual way of life!
Preaching from either side of a real life argument, in a fantasy game I play for fun, is a whole pile of cobbler.

>> No.28414035


A passionate, 3 post rant on the right to be apathetic.
Only on 4chan.

>> No.28415317

Goddammit, I just wanted a thread where we could talk about an adventure path and its merits, not have a fucking political argument about Paizo shoe-horning faggot characters in their books so people won't go, "HOMOPHOBIA!"

Fucking hell.

>> No.28415838

That's the best right though.

>> No.28415873

>Worst AP

Isn't that an oxymoron?

>> No.28415890
File: 287 KB, 480x360, Clap.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Basically its turning 'well I don't feel comfortable about that man in a dress' into the stuff of summoning demons and necromancy.
I never thought of it like that. But it's very true.

>> No.28416028

golarion is not a "medieval" or "medievalish" setting in any real way

>> No.28416151
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>> No.28417433

>But I resent the LGBT pushing here for the same reason I don't like the feminist push against video games.
>It's pushing an agenda in my face. Which I find incredibly offensive
That's a bit different, though, because from what you said about gay marriage, it sounds like you want equality, so the one is pushing an agenda you agree with in your face and the other is pushing a sexist agenda in your face. So you should be more offended by the sexism.

>> No.28419636

No, It's a game for neckbeards who fear change.

>> No.28419666

Because in paizoland hating gays is morally worse than enslaving someone.

>> No.28419728

Just because there was a reason for a practice to evolve doesn't mean that it is morally right. There were reasons that slavery was instituted and helpful. That doesn't mean we should put black people back in chains.

>> No.28419829

An accurate description of possibly the worst setting there is.

>> No.28419960

I dunno, I'm usually on the side of "teh gays" but that sounds like it has the potential to be an interesting adventure if the GM isn't afraid to get really offensive.

>> No.28420000

What is on the god rock, and why is that section labelled dumb atheists?

>> No.28420074
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>worst setting there is

I don't know about that, but playing through Carrion Crown has shown me that each of Ustalav's counties are like one of the "Lands" in a Theme Park.

• Frankentstein Land
• Lovecraft Land
• Forest of the Werewolves
• Vampire Land
• Phantom of the Opera Land
• 2spooky4me land
• etc.

>> No.28420127
File: 185 KB, 1139x291, gay marriage campaign.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>I dunno, I'm usually on the side of "teh gays" but that sounds like it has the potential to be an interesting adventure if the GM isn't afraid to get really offensive.

There's other ways of going about it.

>> No.28420143


It's a region where the worship of all religion has been banned due to warring the past, even clerics who worship ideals. The dumb part is because in addition to missing on an entire branch magic that's great at doing things like curing disease, it's heavily implied the gods are letting the country get ravaged by plagues and encroaching desert as a fuck you for keeping their people out.

>> No.28420191

Hey guys I'm working on a build and I want your opinion on it. I was thinking for my next character I'd either go
Human Master of Many Styles 2/ Rest of the way Eagle Shaman Druid. Get the full Crane Style Progression and Panther Style. Play as an unhittable bird that specializes in fly by attacks. What do you think?

Also, what's the rule on Mixing Archetypes? I was wondering if Ironskin monk and Master of Many Styles was compatible. Going for an attempt at an unmovable, armored monk with Snapping Turtle, Crane and Full Plate.

>> No.28420233


You can have as many archetypes as you want as long as they replace different abilities. Even a single overlap will prevent two from being compatible.

>> No.28420267
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>God Rock

>Dumb Atheists

While I understand why Rahadoumis did what they did, I really really think that atheism is a very very bad idea in a fantasy setting like this, both in individual and national levels.

Pascal's Wager is true in Golarion.

>> No.28420324

>what's the rule on Mixing Archetypes

As long as they don't replace the same thing, they're fine.

>> No.28420346


Shiiiit. They only really conflict at level twenty... Time to do some DM begging/bribing.

>> No.28420404

>pascals wager
So you can spend your afterlife receiving a full-contact lecture from a couple gods and their nailbats as to why the gods abhor a wiseass?

>> No.28420475

And I still want to shoehorn Expedition to Castle Ravenloft into some backwoods-y area of Ustalav. See how far the players get into it before one of them recognizes the setting.

>> No.28420499

If you take it as written, sure. It's pretty shit, yeah, but I kinda like it. In the same way that I like watching G Gundam and its goofy representations of national stereotypes.

>> No.28420580

>>All good aligned deities
Wouldn't Erastil be against it? The dude who's basically a grumpy racist old grandpa, but with a stag head? That guy's Lawful Good.

>> No.28420594

Neckbeards aren't the most progressive bunch.

>> No.28420634

Read the thread. He's totally okay with the gay.

>> No.28420639


I'm really curious about 2spooky4me land since you contrasted it like that.

>> No.28420648

Whoops. Shoulda read further 'fore I posted >>28420580.

>> No.28420687

>playing a witch
>not eating children

What the fuck is the point?

>> No.28420690

I just mean a DM that isn't affraid to ham it up and have the enemies be completely fabulous.

>> No.28420710
File: 11 KB, 213x267, 05.03.11 2PM.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


When you die in Golarion your soul is going to go somewhere, it can be a nice place, a bad place or a meh place. All kinds of flavors. Where you go depends on your actions in life and how Pharasma judges them, but it is implied in some places that input from some of the other gods' can affect the outcome too. The way I picture it is that gods might have outsiders in Pharasma's Boneyard dedicated to argue for some souls.

So yes, Asmodeus probable has a Pit Fiend Barrister Bureau that will argue that Johann the Wizard's soul despite his good actions and worship of Nethys should go to the Nine Hells because he signed a Faustian contract with a devil and now is time for him to deliver his side of the bargain.

Sarenrae too probably has some lawyer devas that will argue for souls. All the gods should have outsiders for this purpose.

Now, what happens if you are an atheist? No Solar Deva lawyer for you. But maybe the Daemon Legal team will send someone to argue you should go to Abaddon.

Even worse, what if a Demon Strike Team manages to get your soul in transit and takes you to the Abyss? No one is going to give a fuck about your non-believing immortal soul to do something about it: well, maybe Pharasma will care, but resources are limited and her record shows some souls have escaped her hands (see: Urgathoa), her system is NOT infallible. Your soul could fall through the cracks: are you willing to not to do something to improve your chances?

>> No.28420750

If you're an atheist with a background in law, can you interrupt proceedings by applying for entry level positions with the legal teams?

Or better yet, try and create an atheist driven Better-Call-Saul! critical mass to make a diety shaped hole in the after life that exists to push a godless agenda?

>> No.28420770

Thank you for the great high-level campaign idea.

>> No.28420811


Depends if you become a Petitioner as soon as you die or only after you get settled in a new place, because being stuck as a shitty CR 2 creature mean it's pretty much out of your hands.

>> No.28420829


>Are you bad enough dudes to rescue highjacked souls from hell itself?

>> No.28420839

That will never happen. The difference is that children can't consent legally, and they rarely conceed illegally. And if you haven't paid attention to the screaming feminists outside your door, much of their cause is against rape and rape culture. They're talking about uplifting other societies so little girls don't have to worry about getting raped in India, Brazil, or Thailand. So honestly, things are probably going to get worse for pedos. Like, I'm pretty sure loli will be banned pretty soon, for example.

>> No.28420844

With respect, if you're dead and the opposition you're going to be facing regularly are, well, gods, you don't really want to be bashing your stat-line against anyones stat lines, regardless of what you are.

>> No.28420907


>They're talking about uplifting other societies so little girls don't have to worry about getting raped in India, Brazil, or Thailand

I fucking hope so. I have friends from India, and from what I've heard it's an overcrowded hellhole filled with gang rape.

>> No.28421020
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Saulokadell is an Imentesh Protean that offers his services as a Barrister in the Boneyard, he will argue against the projected target plane of his clients through any available mean and in fact has freed some spellcasters from Faustian contracts thanks to technicalities. To get his help, binders must summon Saulokadell while still alive and strike a deal with him for when they die. If a deal is reached, Saulokadell will keep track of his client's status and move upon decease. This usually involves taking a Protean Voidworm that works with Saulokadell as a familiar, but other arrangements can be made.

Saulokadell is despised by all Evil and Lawful legal teams since his clients are usually people who are trying to avoid going to one of their planes.

As you might imagine Saulokadell doesn't work cheap.

>> No.28421057
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>Playing a witch
>Not eating children out

>> No.28421717

>The difference is that children can't consent legally, and they rarely conceed illegally.
And gays used to not be able to consent to bumming each otehr legally.

>> No.28423582

I wouldn't et your hopes up. If you're online, feminists in your country are more concerned with banning porn than helping women in countries with actual rape culture.

>> No.28423598


And that wasn't because they could not give consent, but because "muh feelings."

>> No.28423878


This. I promise you, your feminists don't give a fuck about the poor brown people of the world.

>> No.28423918

>implying children can't give consent.

>> No.28424177

You obviously missed Greta from Reign of Winter. A winter wolf that's looking for a mate, and if a PC plays their cards right can be that person.

>> No.28424376

That's technically okay because she has human Int, isn't a companion/familiar, and can take human form.

>> No.28424411

children have human int and can take human form.

>> No.28424461

The point is a winter wolf as a romance option doesn't mean Paizo's supporting bestiality yet.

Keep an eye on their options for druids for that.

>> No.28424494

She can only take human form in The Howlings, but your reasoning still stands.

>> No.28424517

What reason is there that you can't be all three?

>> No.28424757

The shadowblood addiction is pretty cool, that was a major theme in the PF book The Worldwound Gambit.

>> No.28424817

I have a question about concealing weapons. Can I conceal a weapon in a wrist sheath or something like that at the beginning of the day and just keep it concealed for the entire day?

>> No.28428207

Feminism isn't a sexual trade union. It just happens to want to ban every form of male sexual satisfaction besides its adherents.

>> No.28430017

>implying that ending rape is bad for pedophiles

>> No.28430483
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Yeaaaah I'm just gonna go ahead and avoid this AP. It's waaaaaaaay too Illinois for my taste.

>> No.28430569
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This is ultimately correct.

Souls are sent to their afterlife depending on their lives, piety and belief in your gods influences this somewhat and there ARE outsiders that argue in court for your soul.

Cases can be lost though, if you were a shitstain of a human caricature and paid lip service to Cayden you'll still go to the Abyss and be a larvae. Being a dickass selfish bastard who did everything and used every loophole to get himself further would burn in Hell. But if he also worshipped Asmodeus, then a devil would probably get him into the appropriate layer of Hell, which is Nessus, and he'd work as a scribe along with millions of other Asmodeus worshippers in his cathedral cities till deemed useful enough to do something else or be promoted into a devil.

There are feathered psychopomp dragons that oversee courts and act as judges. Pharasma herself deals with god-tier souls.

If you're an atheist you get buried alive in a coffin and rot there in the dark without external stimuli or the ability to move forever. Its what you expected from the afterlife. Though Pharasma also uses atheist souls to drive off the doomsday moongod, I dont remember his name.

That said, atheists still go to whatever plane they deserve, they only get the coffin if they never amounted to anything and their whole life was about nope, no gods exist, no afterlife either. A good atheist would still go to Heaven, he'd just probably feel really goddamn stupid.

>> No.28430591

>Like, I'm pretty sure loli will be banned pretty soon

If that happens I will demand everyone who watches action movies or plays shooter games be tried as murderers.

>> No.28432284
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>Though Pharasma also uses atheist souls to drive off the doomsday moongod


That thing with the coffin sounds harsher than I expected, but it only reinforces my idea that atheism is a bad policy in Golarion.

>> No.28434941
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I refuse to believe that's actually what happens in those modules.

>> No.28438125
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Yup, those are both recurring npcs you meet in part 1.
>MFW reading their backstories

>> No.28438847

What does that mean? I'm not from Illinois

>> No.28438880

Why does it bother you?

>> No.28438902

Yeah I have nothing against inclusion or whatever but uh
This is the adventure path where you KILL DEMONS FOREVER why is it so focused on random, less-than-likeable NPCs
I sure hope Mummy's Mask and Iron Gods are nothing like this

>> No.28438935


From what I understand it's also about redemption, so I'm assuming the reason they are loading up on NPCs so that you fix at least one of them.

>> No.28438982

Yeah, those are villains though? The only gay NPC who needs "redeeming" is the dude with the heroin addiction, and only if you fuck up pretty badly.
It feels like they're having LGBT characters for the sake of it now, unlike the sheriff and paladin couple in RotR or the Queen in CotCT

>> No.28439025

Shattered Star and RoW were both incredibly stellar too, so this feels even worse, being mediocre as it is

>> No.28439051

I tought the queen in cotct was only bi/lesbian for the sake of it to have people work under her. I don't remember the sheriff and paladin in RotR, in which segment were they?

>> No.28439081

Rasputin Must Die!

>> No.28439106

They're only mentioned in the back of the first book because gays make male players uncomfortable
And yeah the Queen only fucked the woman general lady so that she'd be loyal to her, but this is only brought up when the latter reappears in like the last book; it's not as HEY THIS CHARACTER IS A LESBIAN
What really gets me is how little prejudice these characters face though, it's like how there are never NPCs who question what a woman is doing swinging around a sword and getting caught in fireball traps
I get that this is fantasy but the sheer tolerance the entire world exudes, like, shatters any feeling of verisimilitude

>> No.28439113


It's been a while since I played RotR, but I think they were in Sandpoint, and the paladin was trying to keep the relationship on the down low because at that point Golarion wasn't written to be as sexually open as it is now. Even the Queen's relationship mentioned by >>28439051 is mostly presented as a scandalous rumor that may more may not be true.

>> No.28439133

...Yes, this is one of the best adventures they've ever printed, your point?
Stop being a moron and actually read the damn module before calling it shit

>> No.28439171

I did, I just have a firm dislike of all of those games, be it video or PnP that take real world stuff (norse myth is the worst) and just paste it in their games.

What's next, an AP where you help Brutus kill caesar, showing him to be a true good man, or one where you were the reason for Napoleon's defeat?

Rasputin is a 17th level oracle, with that amount of magic, he could already rule Earth with minimal effort, by himself.

>> No.28439219

Character level is an abstraction for everyone but the players though, except when it isn't
Besides, while you might like the concept the adventure is very tightly-written with Rasputin being an excellent villain
Also they're probably not going back to Earth again, if they do you can definitely complain about sharks being jumped but as a one-off thing it's pretty amazing

>> No.28439225


But Pathfinder's big thing is the shear amount of copy and pasting they do. It's not that I don't agree with you, which I totally do, but traveling to the real world pretty much seems like the next logical step with the way they've been doing things.

>> No.28439273

Copy and Pasting? From 3.5 or in general?

And yes, character level is only for the math and stats for the players, but a 17th level oracle has spells, and some rather insane ones at that. I already like WotR despite some game flaws (town building, exploring, army using) but I wonder how the Iron Gods arc will be. I can see it as either being the greatest AP ever, or a pile of shit.

>> No.28439285

If you want to end Irrisen's eternal winter, one of the things you need to destroy is at Antarctica. But that's post-AP stuff if you want to keep going.

>> No.28439320

Iron Gods has TECHNOLOGY which might actually be a decent way to build a no-magic game using the PF ruleset
I have high hopes that it won't be shit
But yeah Rasputin having Miracle, etc and not being the ruler of the world is odd but I can ignore it given how his spell selection is mostly just to make him hilariously difficult

>> No.28439390

Well, it's still tied to the same narrative
I'm talking about them like just randomly dumping you on Earth in a totally different AP
Just because

>> No.28439503

Except, if you take a page from Kingmaker, the technology items simply do the same thing as magic items, except they are not magic. Which is, in a way, even more bullshit

>> No.28441228

Kingmaker had TECHNOLOGY? What?

>> No.28441811

Pedophiles aren't all rapists.

>> No.28441913

No you won't. You'll sit at home and grumble about it online using analogies nobody cares to understand and do nothing, and then forget about it even before the people who banned it start calling for something new to be banned.

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