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[ERROR] No.28337416 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

>Barbarians mistrust the doings of magic-users and illusionists. When presented with displays of such magic they must succeed at a saving throw or be stunned with fear for 1 round.

How do you feel about this rule?

>> No.28337442

I'm going to have to open up a whole can of "Fuck No" today, aren't I?

>> No.28337459

> Spellcasters envy the doings of warriors and athltets. When presented with displays of such skills they must succeed at a saving throw or be stunned with awe for 1 round.
How do you feel about this rule?

>> No.28337469

Pretty good actually.

>> No.28337491

You can't deny that it fits the literature though. Barbarians don't understand and fear magic. Even Conan does.

>> No.28337495

Both of these things are bad.

>> No.28337498

Literature, maybe. But Conan's universe has several orders of magnitude different between how common spellcasters are and your typical RPG game.

>> No.28337508


Barbarians? Fear? Fuck that noise. Let me propose something a little more in character.

>Barbarians mistrust the doings of magic-users and illusionists. When presented with displays of such magic they must succeed at a saving throw or attempt to slay the offending spellcaster.

>> No.28337519

I quite the wizard one.
>Those muscles... that glistening sweat... how is it possible to get so buff without magic? What trickery is this?!

>> No.28337526

Yes, they're cautious around obvious magic in universes where magic is rare like Conan's. But how many times did that stop Conan from fucking shit up even for a moment?

>> No.28337530

Fits the fluff perfectly.

>> No.28337548

I'd be okay with it if it meant the barbarian instantly saw through any illusion.

>> No.28337550

That said, how hard is it to scare your average Barbarian?

>> No.28337566

Martial classes get shit Will saves, so pretty easy.

>> No.28337570

Pretty hard. Generally whenever you get them in a situation that is scary they just laugh cruelly and shout something like, "DIVE, my hawkmen!" or, "Odiiiiin!"

>> No.28337590

>Barbarians mistrust the doings of magic-users and illusionists. When presented with displays of such magic if they are able to take an attack of opporunity and the spellcaster is within charging distance they can opt to charge with their attack of opportunity to end his magic-using ways.

How do you feel about this rule?

>> No.28337603

from 1st edition

>All barbarians have the following bonuses to their saving throws: They are + 4 versus poison, + 3 versus paralyzation, death magic, petrification, and polymorph, and + 2 versus rod, staff and wand and breath weapon. Barbarians gain no benefit to their saving throw versus spell at start, but gain a + 1 to such saving throws for every four levels attained.

>Detect illusion: Barbarians have a 5% chance per level of determining that some sight, sound or other sensory phenomenon is actually an i/lusion/phantasm spell of some type. This detection takes one round of concentration on the illusion. Regardless of the barbarian’s level, the chance to so detect such spells may never exceed 75%.

>Detect magic: Barbarians have a 25% chance of detecting any sort of magic other than the illusion/,phantasm variety. This again
takes one round of concentration, and applies to items or spells, but not to persons who are able to effect magic. For each level the barbarian gains beyond the 1st level, the barbarian gains an additional 5% to his or her base chance of detection. However, this chance may never exceed 90% regardless of the barbarian’s level of experience. The type of magic is never revealed by this ability.

"Rage" was an invention of 2nd ed, 1st ed barbarian is a wilderness survival anti magic

>> No.28337617

That's super cool.

>> No.28337630

>Barbarians have a 5% chance per level of determining that some sight, sound or other sensory phenomenon is actually an i/lusion/phantasm spell of some type.
Does this mean they might think things that are real are actually illusions?

Like they smell roses in the garden one day and they'll all "ACCURSED SORCERERS, I will have your HEADS"

>> No.28337647


>> No.28337664

I like the idea of someone who distrusts magic always disrupting spells if they're cast within AoO range, and always resisting spells regardless of their stated intention (Cure spells are Will Negates [harmless], but how do you know it's not a Dominate Person spell?). I'd happily apply that to any animals a party member uses unless they've been taught the Accept Spell trick which I just made up.

But it does feel a lot like that douchebag Paladin syndrome of "I've decided to play in this way and now everyone is going to have to change to accomodate me". You could combine it with the Frenzied Berzerker PrC and start attacking party members, to be double-ThatGuy-Barbarian.

>> No.28337671

Frenzied Berserker is legitimately one of my favourite PrCs. I think Frenzied Berserkers in my group have now caused more TPKs than anything else.

>> No.28337679

he also add his LEVEL to his charisma when dealing with other primitive barbarian type people, so he could really be a party face and give massive morale bonuses to henchmen if you choose the right type/setting locale

>> No.28337687

Conan, the ideal barbarian, didn't get stunned by magic, it just made him angry.

Never a good idea.

>> No.28337718

>My barbarian keeps flexing
>Stops the BBEG for a full 3 rounds
Welcome to the gunshow.

>> No.28337759

If everyone else is up for that then fine, but damn would I not like to play in a group with a Frenzied Berzerker.

>> No.28337770


I'm thinking about prestiging into Frenzied Berserker in my current game, and the DM has already okay-ed it.

I know the house always wins, but I'm still tempted to roll the dice.

>> No.28337772

It's just a thing that happens. Like four people have played one now, everyone always says 'don't do it don't' but we just kind of laugh it off. Then something goes wrong and we can't calm the barbarian down and it was a tough fight and he just kills everyone.

>> No.28338665

>Barbarians mistrust the dongs of magic-users and illusionists. When presented with displays of such magic they must succeed at a saving throw or be stunned with fear for 1 round.

>> No.28341577

>Mighty men in terror of nerds magically enhanced dicks.

>> No.28341630

I feel that you're a butthurt billy. The first rule is fitting within a certain niche of literature. Your rule is just purely the behavior of an assmad ape.

>> No.28341682


I think it's stupid because I like magic being natural or at the very least Barbarians having access to natural magic.

Like, barbarians aren't fucking christians or something where anything not of god must be from the devil or some shit.

They should be able to get magic from nature. Nature magic. Healing nature magic. Horse nature magic.

Come on guys. Shamans, druids, geomancers, etc.. etc..

>> No.28342087


>> No.28342094


i'd enjoy that.

>> No.28342939

I like it, it's evocative and interesting. The barbarian also gets some cool abilities to counteract this disadvantage.

>b-but mah barbarian would never be afraid of magic!

Then don't play the barbarian class, you fucking simp. It's not like you're required to do so to call yourself a barbarian. Conan would have been a fighter. If your character doesn't distrust magic to the extent of fearful ignorance, this class isn't for you.

>> No.28342978

I like the idea of baseline anti-magic/wizard feats for warriors. Nothing too fancy, no "mage hunter" stuff, just something that fits in with their no-nonsense physical damage repertoire without going overboard. Because in most games, warriors/fighters/knights whatever are usually inferior by hybrids classes like paladins, battle-mages, death knights etc.

>> No.28343074

>barbarian equals caveman mentality

Just because someone isn't an academic doesn't mean he doesn't understand magic or is afraid of it, you know.

>> No.28343130


Goddamnit this. I fucking hate the idea the barbarian can only be some big dumb caveman with a fuck huge stick.

The classes in D&D are archetypes. Not every bard is some kind of foppish playwright nor is every ranger some 2edgy4me Drizzt clone.

>> No.28343235

Especially in a world where fucking everyone can use magic.

Even Barbarians

>> No.28343325

Then play a fighter and call yourself a barbarian, you fucking retard.

>> No.28343352


No. Fuck you you goddamn shit cunt

>> No.28343375

Why not? The 'barbarian' class is for a very particular form of archetype. If you don't want to play that archetype, DON'T USE THE CLASS.

>> No.28343408


Because the only thing mechanically about Barbarians is that they have illiteracy which is strange when you consider that Barbarians have more skill points than the fighter

>> No.28343432


This is about first ed barbarians. Not the 3rd edition class.

>> No.28343449

This is mostly from 1e where the barbarians were pretty much modeled after Conan and such, what with their distrust of magic an all.

But I agree with making things like Barbsm Druids, Skalds and such just be the "savage" archetypes of like a core 4.

Screw it might as well attempt to come up with a system that does that

>> No.28343460

It's a good rule...when not applied to an entire class or people. Make it a quality of a certain group of barbarians, not all barbarians. Hey, the Barbarians of Honeywelt Forest deal with wizards all the time so no rhabdophobia for them. However, go to the Dreg Lands on the edge of the wilderness where the barbarians are closed off from the rest of the world, now rhabdophobia makes sense.

>> No.28343487

Yeah, it's more like important barbarians and warriors have plot armor on their side and some contrivance will always cause a wizard to lose against them.

>> No.28343519


Well then clearly we were not on the same page and apologize for calling you a faggot shit cunt.

>> No.28343551


>Not playing Byronesque warrior-poets or coming-of-age princesses from foreign realms

The most fun I have had with 3e was playing Akeem Joffer from Coming to America as a Barbarian. Fish out-of-water in 'modern' culture, but having had fine tutors from around the world as his father wanted his children to be better. Another friend made a Barbarian/Rogue Gestalt that basically played as Beast. It seemed like a lot of fun. Of course the same could be completed with a little tweaking of skills around for both.

>> No.28343587

Only the unimaginative limit themselves to a singular archetype as the only way to play a class.

You can still be a barbarian without having to go all "GORG SMASH ELF!". A barbarian is just someone who's considered uncivilized by the norms and standards of whatever society has the most control.

>> No.28343664

>Take a talent in Posing
>-4 STR due to too many isolation exercises and not dat derr functional strength.
Seems like a balanced rule.
>Lich a barbarian
The Gunshow never ends!

>> No.28343680

Name one reason why you'd would play a fighter/barbarian and not a magic-using melee instead. Like some other post in this thread, fighters usually have the short end of the stick. They can't cast magic, they can't heal themselves through magic and they're not even doing much more damage than paladins.

Answer 10 hours.

>> No.28343688

Only an asshole plays a class and then demands that the GM change mechanics to suit their bullshit when they could just play a different class that doesn't have that restriction.

>> No.28343794

Pathfinder actually has a barb archetype who's illiterate and refuses to learn to read even if he multiclasses.
I feel like there could always be an archetype for what OP us suggesting, as long as it's offset by some other bonus.
Perhaps he'd have a higher will save to recognize magic, die to the fact that he's so wary around the stuff. or maybe instead of stunning him, it would force him to attack the caster in a fit of rage, and ignore all other targets unless they were specifically preventing him from reaching the caster.
My only rpg experience is with pf, so that's the style of rules I'm working with here

>> No.28343817

Due* to the fact etc. I didn't mean he should die for being aware

>> No.28343827

Have you ever heard of character customization? You can play non-retarded barbarians without breaking the rules or the original intention of the class, just as much as you can play a dumb as bread fighter. And seriously, being afraid of magic shouldn't even be a thing. Especially not for higher level barbarians.

>> No.28343953

You can also play a dumb-as-bread Cleric or Sorcerer.

>> No.28344011


>Play a retarded cleric
>Randomly empowered by divine retard strength
>Shout nonsequitors of happy things to throw down spontaneous heals
>BBEG is defeated due to unwillingness to beat on a simpleton.
>tfw there isn't a decent picture of a MRDD candidate in vestments

Saint Downs.

>> No.28344084

Stop playing WoW then.

>> No.28344086

i don't like this, because if one pc is a wizard and one pc is a barbarian then more often than not the players wont be having fun.

>> No.28344138

>joining a group that contains a wizard and a barbarian of any sort

>> No.28344546

So, you either refer to literature as in folk stories, which is trully stupid (even if magic was real people were more afraid of swords than curses), or you are refering to fantasy novels, in which case i can point to more than 10 books that disagree with you.

Take your butthurt insults somewhere else, outside of 4chan.

>> No.28344584

>Have you ever heard of character customization? You can play non-retarded barbarians without breaking the rules or the original intention of the class

You'd have to remove the mechanical limitation that balances out the Barbarians getting additional abilities over fighters.

And yes, being afraid of magic should totally be a thing. Newsflash, you fucking newfag, magic wasn't always fucking everywhere in D&D. It used to be quite rare.

>> No.28344614

>I can refer you to

Can you refer me to 10 examples of literature that were considered inspirations for D&D? Because that's what Gygax was referencing with this, fannyflustered William.

>> No.28344623

I always houserule that Barbarians can, while in Rage, can try to Intimidate their Will save into being higher.

Exactly, they'd have some magic 'n shit.

>> No.28344686

Can you refer me to what inspired a man you never met, never spoken to, who is now dead to prove you right, who you never spied on to know what he read and all these while you cannot travel through time and read minds you limmerick?

>> No.28344708


You're right. I mean there isn't an appendix written by the man in one of the seminal works of his creation that lays out his inspiration.

You suck at D&D bro.

>> No.28344738

And what people write about is always true and never to advertise or attract the media.

Now read this:
You are a rabbit. Your whole life until now is a lie.

Now leave 4chan and go research that.

>> No.28344801


Brackett, Leigh
Brown, Frederic
Burroughs, Edgar Rice: "Pellucidar" series; Mars series; Venus series
Carter, Lin: "World's End" series
de Camp & Pratt: "Harold Shea" series; THE CARNELIAN CUBE
Derleth, August
Dunsany, Lord
Farmer, P. J.: "The World of the Tiers" series; et al
Fox, Gardner: "Kothar" series; "Kyrik" series; et al
Howard, R. E.: "Conan" series
Lanier, Sterling: HIERO'S JOURNEY
Leiber, Fritz: "Fafhrd & Gray Mouser" series; et al
Lovecraft, H. P.
Moorcock, Michael: STORMBRINGER; STEALER OF SOULS; "Hawkmoon" series (esp. the
first three books)
Norton, Andre
Offutt, Andrew J.: editor of SWORDS AGAINST DARKNESS III
Pratt, Fletcher: BLUE STAR; et al
Saberhagen, Fred: CHANGELING EARTH; et al
Tolkien, J. R. R.: THE HOBBIT; "Ring trilogy"
Weinbaum, Stanley
Wellman, Manley Wade
Williamson, Jack
Zelazny, Roger: JACK OF SHADOWS; "Amber" series; et al

There is the relevant section of Appendix N. Now provide 10 period specific instances that prove your view is correct.

>> No.28344818

I would, but you should first learn to read whole phrases of what i say, not just what you thought you just read.

>> No.28344847


>poster claims there is no way to know what inspired the original authors of the system
>provide a small sample of known inspirations easily verified via a simple Google search
>still being this mad

>> No.28345138

I've read novels with different types of barbarians and I think that this is entirely up to how the world of the game is and the culture of the barbarian's tribe. For example...
1) The barbarian's tribe has like a shaman that they respect.
2) There could be an outcast witch that the barbarians fear, because magic always has a negative side to it.

I don't think the 2nd one would fit too well into D&D now though, since there are so many different types of spells that have no negative consequence to them. If it was something like the spell caster wanted to summon the spirit of a dead person and had the party dig up the corpse or the person, then I could understand. However, I don't see why magic missile would scare a barbarian.

>> No.28345157

All of my barbarians are of nomadic or totemic origins, both of which are likely to utilize rangers and druids which, SPOILERS, use magic.

To say that my character mistrusts something by virtue of his class means that this rule is automatically vetoed as it is taking my control away from my character, which goes against the fundamental rules of roleplaying. (obviously mind control supercedes this rule)

>> No.28345495

>However, I don't see why magic missile would scare a barbarian.

Because it's not 'natural' and there are a great many superstitions surrounding magic? Why would carrying a loaded firearm scare modern day humans?

>> No.28345755

It shouldn't unless they are retarded or the person holding the gun has shown hostile behavior or said I'm going to fucking shoot you

>> No.28345774

>It shouldn't unless they are retarded or the person holding the gun has shown hostile behavior or said I'm going to fucking shoot you

And yet normal people freak out every day over the knowledge that someone has a loaded firearm on their person.

>> No.28345856

>To say that my character mistrusts something by virtue of his class means that this rule is automatically vetoed as it is taking my control away from my character, which goes against the fundamental rules of roleplaying.
It's like whoever made that rule has never roleplayed in his life. Most players I know would go ballistic if the DM said "Because you're X, you hate this guy for being Y."

>> No.28345879

Or you could, you know, not play the class if you don't want this limitation. What's wrong with fighter again?

>> No.28345886


Yes, I believe that most peasants in a situation would freak the fuck out if they saw a wand, but anyone who is trained to fight is going to know to be more prepared. Situational awareness is a btich.

>> No.28345891

What about barbarians that don't believe in magic?

>> No.28345932

'mistrust' doesnt mean stunned.

I dont trust my friend Jon on driving me home after he's drinks. Doesnt mean im stunned with fear when he actually drives.

>> No.28345952

>but anyone who is trained to fight

You're thinking in terms of modern military. A barbarian isn't necessarily trained according to some sort of formalized military training. Knowing how to properly hunt a large animal isn't the same as being "elite spec ops, Jeff Cooper is my patron saint".

>> No.28345980

Maybe it's a part of their psyche how they only understand smashing things with corporeal things and doing a good job at it.

That's all they understand and that's all they know.

When they see fire conjured out of a man's hands or beasts from the nether realms being summoned, their violent brains just cannot handle it.

>> No.28346047


>Tribal shamans not teaching their warriors how to fend off rival tribal shamans or magicians coming in disguise

Come on now. The threat exists. If a tribe has a shaman and is in a warlike region the warriors will understand at least some basics of the trappings of power. Would that translate into knowing the guy in the blue striped tabard and gold piping is a member of the Academy Arcanum? No. But when he sees the shit start flying and a guy muttering, waving his hands, or locking eyes at a location or barely moving while others are fighting? He's going to be on top of it.

>> No.28346071

Except Paladins right.

>> No.28346072

It's a limitation that shoehorns me into a stereotype, even if the fluff for my character or the fluff of the setting contradicts it to an extreme level. I am not a divine caster, my skills are not taught by the Super Special Sparkly Spellcasting School, they do not come from exposure to the supernatural, they are not born from fearing or mistrusting magic, it does not come from channeling the ghost of someone who hates magic. There is literally no reason for it to exist.

>> No.28346097

>beasts from the nether realms
I'll show ya a beast from MY nethers!

>> No.28346102

Nope, still taking control of someone's character. Rule zero being invoked to control someone's character is a very good way to lose one or more players.

>> No.28346103

I like anything that punishes magic users or rewards people for avoiding magic use in a system where it's an option.

So I dislike that rule.

>> No.28346146

As I recall, in most old fluff, the shamans were just as distrusted as any other magic user.

Also, take your "HURR, EVERY CHARACTER IS AN ACTION HERO" bullshit elsewhere. 3rd edition is right next door and is all too happy to cater to your power fantasies.

There's plenty of reason for it to exist: to allow characters that fear and mistrust magic to the point of fearful ignorance. Don't like it? PLAY A FUCKING FIGHTER. What again is wrong with fighters?

>> No.28346186

>to allow characters that fear and mistrust magic to the point of fearful ignorance.
3e and every point buy game in existence already has rules for this. They're called flaws. Have a weakness or restriction in exchange for a benefit.

>> No.28346204

>b-but mah wizard would never say, "per se," all the time!

Then don't play the wizard class, you fucking simp. It's not like you're required to do so to call yourself a wizard. Gandalf would have been a favored soul. If your character doesn't say, "per se," to the extent of everyone thinking he is a huge faggoty nerd, this class isn't for you.

>> No.28346214

Which is exactly what you're doing with this barbarian. You get abilities the fighter doesn't in exchange for flaws they also don't experience.

>> No.28346236

Hello Butthurt Billy. The wizard doesn't have such a limitation. Would you be willing to provide a citation? If not, your example is invalid.

>> No.28346245


Tribal cultures around the world have a love hate with specific forms of mysticism. There may be a specific practice that is accepted (lets say sun worship) and one that is not accepted (speaking to the dead). A Barbarian, as we are discussing here, is a PC classed character.

The Complete Barbarian's handbook discusses this (apologies for formatting).

Barbarians view homeland magic as a powerful,
mysterious, and unexplainable force,
much like fire or lightning. A flame somehow
improves the taste of meat; an herbal potion
somehow grants the ability to fly like a bird. A
lightning bolt can split a tree; a gesture can
cause a corpse to rise. Wuardly magic is viewed
as a horrific omen, and even clerical magic is
suspect. Shaman are respected for their powers
and mostly feared.
Barbarians recognize that some people have
an innate aptitude for manipulating the forces of
magic. Just as a certain woman may be skilled at
catching fish, her neighbor may have a knack for
telling the future. As children, two brothers may
show an affinity for horses; by adulthood, the
first brother may be skilled at ridmg them, the
second at speaking with them.
Skilled spellcasters often rise to positions of
power and respect, becoming healers, counselors, and oracles. But even the most revered clerics stand apart from the rest of the tribe, held in awe and even fear by their fellows. Few wish to associate with someone who communes with corpses. Fewer still will cross a man who can cause blindness with a touch.
Though some barbarians may be uncomfortable with homeland magic, they accept it as part of the natural world. Outworld magic, on the other hand, is considered corrupting and unnatural.

>> No.28346263

This is the kind of retard thought process that makes city guards arrest rogues for having rogue levels even if they are dilettantish members of the nobility.

>> No.28346280

That would be second ed fluff then. I believe this is from the 1st ed AD&D Barbarian.

>> No.28346296

No, that's the kind of thought process that says if you don't like the mechanics, don't use the class.

>> No.28346298

There is nothing to back it up. It's no better than saying "The fighter cannot use staves. Because."

>> No.28346320


>No defined saving throw
>Uses the term stunned

Nah. It was deliberately left open so people like you could make these claims. The fluff is also derived from the same sources as the 1e Barb, so why is this an issue?

>> No.28346331

>There is nothing to back it up.

The mechanics, right there in the book. They back it up.

>> No.28346332

I'm actually playing a barbarian in my current game, and big thing is that he's naturally suspicious of magic and spellcasters. Less because it's scary and more because magic lets you do unnatural things and because wizards have a tendency to be dicks. But it's stupid to think guys who spend their time killing the myriads of eldritch horrors that populate game worlds would faint at the sight of the Great Wondero pulling a rabbit out of his hat.

>> No.28346405


>Fighting eldritch horrors
old hat

>See a street magician

This is all I imagine.

>> No.28346446

Paladins aren't mechanically barred from performing actions that would result in them falling. They still have player agency.

>> No.28346447

Are you that much of a slave to the rules?

Banned from my table for encouraging godmodding.

>> No.28346476

The barbarian doesn't have the limitation being talked about except according to the OP's houserule. You can houserule anything.

>> No.28346554

>Newsflash, you fucking newfag,

Only Newfags unironically use the word Newfag in this day and age, newfag.

>> No.28346665

Why the fuck does the barbarian have to be stunned with fear?

Using UA as an example, an Unnatural check caused by magic could have someone run away, be frozen by fear, or get so disgusted/angry by the act that they lash out.

Assuming magic would be a rage stimulus to the barbarian, ie, "WE CUT OUT THE TONGUES OF SORCERERS IN MY LAND", rather than a helplessness stimulus, why can't the Barbarian simply act more hostile/generally distrustful towards those who use magic instead of literally shitting themselves every time somebody flings a spell around them?

>> No.28346715

Well shit, now I'm gonna have to RP that kind of reaction the next time my barbarian sees a magic trick...

>> No.28346833


If you don't like the rules don't play the class.

>> No.28347239

>entire thread getting trolled by one shit head

>> No.28347269

I'm beginning to think that's your answer to everything.

>> No.28347423


You're doing something wrong.

>> No.28347443

Conan literally does magic at one point.

>> No.28347536

This thread is terrible. One of the core inspirations for the Barbarian class is Fafhrd, who a) hangs out with a thief who dabbles in magic, b) occasionally works for a wizard, c) kills the shit out of evil wizards. Occasionally a wizard gets the drop on him or does something so evil he's like "what the fuck," but he knows and accepts that magic exists, and deals with it sensibly.

>> No.28347617

My barbarians are possessed by ghosts (that represent various aspects of predation and destruction) on a daily basis. I don't think they'll be overly intimidated by the silly parlor tricks of the city folk.

>> No.28347631


I feel pretty good about never ever using it.

>> No.28347645

Everyone knows that. It's really just one guy that insisted on that "muh caveman barbarian" concept.

>> No.28347700

Well, I do like the idea of a barbarian who disbelieves so hard that non-illusionary things stop existing as he determines them to be false tricks. So that's one good thing in this thread.

The caveman barbarian is a terrible thing that came from bad books inspired by bad games of D&D, like a lot of the shittier aspects of the game. Fucking lazy incompetent authors.

>> No.28347862

this isnt a real rule, stupid.

>> No.28348174

Or if the BBEG is an unkillable lich
>The Armstrong family has been keeping evil in check for GENERATIONS!

>> No.28350533

It is a rule in 1st edition.

>> No.28351803

>implying that a rule for something that can just as easily be RP'd without stealing control of the player's character is a good idea.
>implying that >>28346833 isn't a troll.

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