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[ERROR] No.27820103 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Alright, /tg/, re-allocate the stats of the playable armies to what you feel is a canon representation of their abilities. Would Guardsman Marbo really kick the shit out of a marine in close combat? Is a Riptide really a nigh invincible machine of destruction?

>> No.27823295

I'd move PLs into Apoc but give them one man army stats like it's supposed to be.
Maybe one of them could stay in regular 40k to be a Swarmlord-level beatstick.

>> No.27825097

I have this, they look quite fun to play against a typical xeno army.

>> No.27825320

This plus Marines in TrueScale and I would start 40k in a heartbeat.

>> No.27825398

>Would Guardsman Marbo really kick the shit out of a marine in close combat?
>implying he wouldn't
>implying implications

Nice try, SMIDF.

Captcha: after icripplya

>> No.27825409

I'd give Tau BS 4 and raise the leadership of Warlocks to 9, but that's all I can think of right now.

>> No.27825508

>higher BS

no, tau and IG should have 2 BS, orks 1

spess mehrines should have a 3+ armor save, rolled on 2D6, like the old terminators, and a 4+ invuln to represent dodging. Seriously, one mehrine should be able to take out dozens of orks, IG, or tau. A full tactical squad should be a terrifying army.

>> No.27825583

But in fluff bolters reliably kill space marines and pulserifles are better than bolters

>> No.27825743

Tau shouldn't get BS 4, markerlights represent their superior tech, and cadians who have been trained from birth to be soldiers are still only BS 3. Veteran guardsmen are men who have fought on dozens, possibly hundreds of worlds, and have probably spent over half of their life killing traitors, heretics, and xenos. Honestly it wouldn't surprise me if half of an IG vet squad is older than the average Tau lifespan. I mean it isn't like 40 and 50 year old soldiers serving on the front lines was that bizarre in human history. Hell there are men as old as 80 who have fought on the front lines of wars, over twice as old as most Tau live to.

>> No.27825884


Ultimately the real issue with Marines is the battle and mission structure is never what Marines would do. Maybe in the Heresy but not now.

>> No.27825908

>re-allocate the stats of the playable armies to what you feel is a canon representation of their abilities.

That'd would require pretty much everything to be re-statted, and would leave them game largely unplayable afterwards. Screw that.

>> No.27825933


>But in fluff bolters reliably kill space marines

Bolters require a spray on full auto to critically damage power armour.

>> No.27825944

>bolters reliably kill space marines

Marines fighting each other need concentrated fire to put the other guy down.

>and pulserifles are better than bolters

Not Astartes-grade bolters. Outside the TT, there's a notable difference between bolt weapons used by normal humans and Marines; a normal guy trying to use an Astartes bolter needs to brace the thing like a heavy machinegun or the recoil will smash his shoulder.

>> No.27826005


I have seen the Space Marine movie.

A few shots are capable of killing a marine.

>> No.27826015

> a normal guy trying to use an Astartes bolter needs to brace the thing like a heavy machinegun or the recoil will smash his shoulder.


I played the Fire Warrior game.

A marine bolter is usable by a Tau and this means a normal human can use it too.

>> No.27826057

I'd probably give armies that were weaker fluff-wise different objectives if they had the same or less point cost than their enemies.

Something like delaying an enemy from an objective for x turns or causing y percentage of casualties would be enough for a victory. I'd probably give it rules to place dead models back in play when you could muster up a large enough group.

On the flip side, stronger fluffwise armies would wreck their weaker counterparts. A marine would tear through an entire IG platoon with little worry and a marine with a powerfist, assuming he got into close range, would be able to pulp up tanks easily.

>> No.27826063

You mena the game where the Bolter is a strict semi-auto weapon with very low rate of fire and a recoil animation that looks meatier than that of the freakin' Rail Rifle? Where it will turn Stormtroopers into gibs with single shots while they can tank a whole salvo of pulse fire?

And yeah, normal humans can use an Astartes bolter. They just have to brace the thing like a heavy weapon and should never try firing more than single shots.

Deathwatch RPG rules are simple in that regard: Every Astartes-grade weapon is treated by normal humans as one class bigger; pistols count as longarms, longarms as heavy weapons, heavy weapons as stationary/emplaced.

>> No.27826096

but bolt guns fire self-propelled bolts why is there recoil

>> No.27826121

Marbo kicks the shit out of everything he fights.

The man can hunt motherfucking Lictors on his own.

>> No.27826149

The real issue is GW wants you to buy a army.

If going by fluff strength you will be fielding a squad of marine instead of a army of marines in 500 point games.

Anything that fires chemical-propelled rounds out of it will have recoil.

Physics is a bitch.

>> No.27826152

Hybrid system. Conventional kicker charge followed by rocket engine.

>> No.27826186

They're cased to provide initial thrust out of the barrel.

>> No.27826272

The problem with that the IG isn't weighted towards those type of people. They're not even weighted towards the Cadian standard. You'd be far more likely to see an IG regiment comprised of press-ganged conscripts from a Hive world than you would seeing Cadians.

>> No.27826315

They don't have a huge amount of recoil, less than a modern assault rifle, only shitty FFG stuff says otherwise.

>> No.27826331

Bretonnia gets the best cavalry.

>> No.27826374

Also beef up the boons the Lady gives to Grail Knights.

>> No.27826453

>nigh-invincible machine of destruction
Pick one, OP
Every time I have charged one with slugga boyz it goes down.
I'm not implying that a riptide isn't super-powerful but anything that can be brought down by a group of boyz isn't a nigh-invincible machine of destruction.

>> No.27826851

>If going by fluff strength you will be fielding a squad of marine instead of a army of marines in 500 point games.

See this is where movie marine players fuck up. They assume that only they get the benefits of masturbatory fluff and nobody else does.

Guess what happens when Eldar get the benefits of their fluff wanks? You get games where the results are predetermined because the farseer has already divined what happened. You get games where a single Chaos Space Marine could fuck up a squad of movie marines.

>> No.27827041

the only change i think would be worth it would be to lower the collective leadership of everyone down 4 point or something. Then the game becomes much more tactical, where you try to get as much leadership in to keep your guys from running, fear effect and pinning are a real bad thing that affect each game, HQ with leadership bubble becomes beacon of faith and rally point for your army, etc.

Basically, the fact that everyone is Leadership 7-8 and + stale the game too much IMO

>> No.27827149

Except that farseers fucked up in multi canon scenarios.

And while you are making fanwanks the above statement about SM was made by GW themselves.

>> No.27827194

>slugga boyz

>> No.27827214

Movie Marines was the stupidest wank-project GW ever did.

>> No.27827225

>You get games where a single Chaos Space Marine could fuck up a squad of movie marines.

I thought Astartes-pattern plot armour only applies to loyalists.

>> No.27827292

It does when applied only from a loyalist side.

Per fluff-wank, many chaos legion marines have been around since the heresy, and are more than capable of beating the shit out of countless loyalists. The original reason the Chaos Lord went to WS 6 in the late 4th ed codex, was because Gave reasoned he'd have been around since the Heresy, and would have been exceptional even by marine standards. Not to be out-done, when the loyalist book got revisited for 5th edition, Matt decided "If Chaos Lords can have WS 6, Marine Chapter Masters should too!"

>> No.27827417

Yeah, and SM have fucked up in multiple canon scenarios too. That doesn't stop them from having the stats that they possess, though.

Honestly you could do a "movie" style list for any faction and it would work well.

>> No.27828592


There has been a WS arms race since 5th edition really. One of the original gangsters for high WS on infantry sized models was the archon (one of the few WS6 models in 3rd ed).

Now WS has been slowly creeping - especially on special characters due to the shift from 5 to 6 on beakie capatains.

We are starting to see a stat crush at the top end as all of those warriors who are more skilled than what a beakie can reach (naturally or otherwise) aren't getting much diversity.

>> No.27828996

>There has been a WS arms race since 5th edition really.

In all honesty there has just been a stats race in general since fifth edition thanks to Ward. And I say this as a good thing because third and fourth addition were terribly bland in the stats department and it made no sense that a space Marine hero would only have one weapon skill higher than just a generic marine.

And let's try and forget the travesty of the stats that a demon prince or an avatar had in the original third edition rulebook reboot.

Personally I am glad that there has been in increase in the range of characteristics like there was in rogue trader and second edition, because it makes it more interesting to me.

>> No.27829160

like rapid-firing a grenade launcher, if the grenades had half the diameter they do now

>> No.27829263

Chaos Daemons Deep Strike should not mishap.

>> No.27829947


Yes lets let them place meelee monsters exactly where they want, and perfectly create a circle around the enemy they have no escape route thru. Its chaos, its not demons of order. Even they don't know whats gonna happen to them half the time, not to mention the other gods dicking with their servents. O warping in some slanesh demons on khorns battlefront huh? Khorne says fuck that, and you get torn apart by magic before you get there..

My favorite is when psychic demons fail perils, and demon claws chew THEM up, sweet sweet justice.

>> No.27830596

IMHO dudes bad enough to resurrect the Emprah such as Marbo, CREEEEEEEEEED, Celestine, Khârn, The Stig's Dark Eldar cousin Drazhar, etc. should not have tabletop rules at all.

In-universe, they have such ridiculous amounts of plot armour that the neckbeard in me weeps every time seeing them wiped out by stray Lemon Russ shells, suddenly lucky Fire Warriors, that pesky Grot who rolls a hard six, etc.

>> No.27831601

People forget that WS used to mean something in 3rd ed, the to hit table used to look like the to wound table we have now.

so ws6 would completely stomp ws4 ect

>> No.27831668

Interesting, so WS was useful up until 4th edition in which it got nerfed pretty hardcore. In RT it was supremely useful and in 2nd it was also extremely useful.

In any case, 7th edition will be melds edition and I'm sure the WS chart will change again.

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