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[ERROR] No.27748776 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

So I've been playing for a year or two now and still feel like the movement phase is my weakest point of play. Any tips, or guides on how to improve this besides more experience?

>> No.27748805

Play with line of sight blocking terrain.

Or just play WHFB and be amazed at how easy 40k movement phase is. It's probably not movement that is your weakness but tactics and strategy.

Pivot your vehicles. Deploy them with side armor facing opponent if going first.

>> No.27748852

How viable is it to use Gorgon Infantry squads for my guard army?

>> No.27748888

>>27748852

Stop asking that.

>> No.27748984

>>27748805
Pivoting vehicles only after first blood has been taken, or guaranteed to be had by the end of your turn.

>> No.27749104

>>27748852
>>27748888
Seriously, it's not that hard just do it faggot.

>> No.27749310

NIDS NIDS NIDS NIDS NIDS NIDS NIDS NIDS
Why does everyone hate the metal Hive Tyrant
NIDS NIDS NIDS NIDS NIDS NIDS NIDS NIDS NIDS

>> No.27749331

>>27749310
>Why does everyone hate the metal Hive Tyrant
>it's metal
>it's big
>it's heavy
>it has lots of weak joints that require pinning
>it has tons of sharp edges

Wonder why.

>> No.27749808

>>27748852
>He bought the citadel pinning vise...

>> No.27749892

>>27749808

He also bought their brushes and their old wooden painting station.

I bought their new plastic painting station, come at me.

>> No.27749926

>>27748776
What's a good website for 30K models? Chinaman barely has any

>> No.27749948

Why doesn't /tg/ ever try converting their own 30k models? You're not entitled to cheap FW models.

>> No.27750081

What do Space Marines do in their spare time?

>> No.27750109

>>27750081

Pray and train.

>> No.27750131

>>27750081
Tell bad jokes.

>> No.27750194

Heresy breeds from idleness.

>> No.27750370 [DELETED] 

So will the shield lose by dq? or get a cheap victory?

>HHH and his bitch make out
it's like watching someone smash grill cheese sandwhiches together,

>> No.27750460

>>27750370
this isn't /asp/ breh

>> No.27750522

>>27750081

I imagine they get anxiety attacks wondering what they're supposed to do with this free time, and thank the Emperor once free time ends.

>> No.27750527

>>27750081
During the Great Crusade at least, some of them had hobbies. Reading, art, wine making.
Space Wolves mostly drink.

>> No.27750654

>>27750527
And fuck

>> No.27750679

>>27750654
wolffuck*

>> No.27750764

Ok so I'm guessing this is the place to ask this.. I want to get into 40k but I can't choose between Space Wolves or Imperial Fists.. What would you guys recommend I get?

>> No.27750821

>>27750764

See which of their rules you like most.

>> No.27750900

>>27750081
suck dick

>> No.27750945

>>27750764

Do you want hairy vikings with beards and wolf shit everywhere and offensive firepower or do you want clean, militaristic, yield-no-ground siege specialists?

>> No.27750999

>>27750945
That's the issue both appeal to me as much as each other so I was just wondering which ones ones were better to play and make overall?

>> No.27751009

>>27750764
If you intend on painting your models, Space Wolves. Yellow is fucking difficult to paint, even for veteran painters.

>> No.27751023

So, i'm really interested in starting this hobby. Have a few questions. 10 Where do you guys get your models other than LGS/GW website, is there a good reliable place for cheap models? 2) I play Protoss in Sc2 and I can't decide between tau/eldar. I'm siding more with tau, opinions greatly appreciated. 3) Is dark vengeance worth it just for the rulebooks? I guess I can just Ebay the models. I'll be lurking this thread for a few hours. Please respond!

>> No.27751040

>>27751009

Just cheat and airbrush or use yellow primer.

>> No.27751072

>>27751009
Yellow really isn't anywhere near as hard as people make out. Especially with the state of washes, it's easy to get a classy table top standard.

>> No.27751133

>>27751072
>washes

You mean glazes.

SCRUB

>> No.27751157

So, which chapter tactics would best represent Storm Wardens? I was thinking Iron Hands because Storm Wardens love armored assault and have a ton of Techmarines.

>> No.27751175

>>27751023
1) I use a webstore based in Australia for 25% off, there will probably be an equivalent for your country. 2) Tau, in my opinion, is an easier place to start than eldar would be. 3) If you're not interested in the models, then no. Download the rulebooks, it's easier/cheaper.

>> No.27751195

>>27751175
Which store is this? I currently use Black Cultist and it's 21.5% (used to be 25%).

>> No.27751196

>>27751157
Black templars, grab LRCs and go around challenging everyone to single combat with your big ass swords.

>> No.27751203

>>27751175
2) shooty or fast, tau or eldar

>> No.27751223

>>27751195
It's 25% off of australian prices...so it's still expensive for everywhere else in the world.

>> No.27751238

>>27751223
I'm an ausfag, I should of mentioned that. Black Cultist is Australian too.

>> No.27751259

>>27751238
Ah, it's Bunker Games. They're melbourne based so free shipping if you're from melbourne. Never heard of black cultist, will have to look into them.

>> No.27751260

>>27751196
Oh, that actually sounds better. But I hear Black Templars sort of suck...

>> No.27751273

>>27751157

BT fits best because they prefer duels and close combat but Storm Wardens have unique librarians and BT can't run libs. BT also lets you spam more LRs than any of the other vanilla chapters or LRs + Predators. IH performs best because they spam so many vehicles. WS somewhat fits due to a similar barbarian warrior tribal theme and vehicle focus.

In the end, pick whatever you want faggort, because they are an unconfirmed tactic chapter.

>> No.27751289

>>27751260
It's your call if you want them to be super competitive. Personally, I prefer making fluffy lists, I find it more rewarding.

>> No.27751309

>>27751273
You could ally BT with another marine force for a librarian and other stuff.

>> No.27751750

>>27751023
for america

>> No.27751807

>>27751023
>1
eBay's mainly what I use, although our glorious chinaman does have quite a bit of Tau stuff since that seems to be your thing ($8 crisis suits, $40 riptides), but be sure to at least prime them before you take them anywhere.
>2
Tau and Eldar are the best armies in the game currently, with Tau basically being the best and Eldar at a somewhat close second. People might give you shit, but as long as you aren't a cram-as-many-riptides-as-possible player who's also a dick, fuck them. Do you want to be shooty or have specialized units? Remember that in the future you can always take both, using one as allies (uses a smaller FOC, Tau and Eldar are also Battle Brothers and work very well together).
>3
Try to either get the small rulebook second-hand, or, if you're really willing to pay DV's asking price maybe the big rulebook if you care about the fluff and all that. For starting out though, I'd just torrent it and the codex.

>> No.27751998

>>27749926
Allo?

CAPTCHA: imperial oyamac

>> No.27752694

>>27749331
Don't forget tiny plastic feet, MASSIVE METAL BODY. I usually don't replace old models when the new ones come out Still run tiny based terminators but man fuck that model, I got the plastic one now, never looked back. That scratched, dinged up model that i spend a massive time painting is shoved in the back of my 40k closet.

>> No.27752724

>>27751009
>doesn't mention that the truly BEAUTIFUL grey-blue that GW paints their demo SW in is nearly impossible to replicate. not that IF are easy to paint either

>> No.27752763

>>27751750

My friend said he sent in an order with him about a month ago, the old way, and hasent received even an email yet. Most people on here seem to give good reviews, but they must be super backed up.

>> No.27753003

>>27748776
Thoughts on this ork list?
My meta has lots of gun lines and lots of fliers, but a decent amount of LOS blocking terrain, enough that tau arent teeing off if the player places terrain right.

1500 Orks

HQ

1 Warboss: Power klaw, Bosspole, Cybork, Eavy Armour = 105pts
1 Big Mek: Kustom Force Field = 85pts

Troops

20 SluggaBoyz: Nob, Big choppa, Bosspole = 140 pts
20 SluggaBoyz: Nob, Big choppa, Bosspole = 140 pts
19 Gretchin: Slaver = 67 pts
8 Nobs: 3 Big choppaz, 3 PowerKlaws, Dok, Cybork x8 = 320 Pts
Dedicated Battle wagon: Red, Riggers, Stikbomb Chukka, Ram, Big shoota x 4 = 130 pts

Elites

10 Lootaz = 150 pts
Ageis defence line: Quad gun = 100 pts

Heavy

Battle wagon: Red, Riggers, Stikbomb Chukka, Ram, Big shoota x 4 = 130 pts
Battle wagon: Red, Riggers, Stikbomb Chukka, Ram, Big shoota x 4 = 130 pts

total 1497

Also what BS do quad guns in an ADL fire at?

>> No.27753047

So at 1000 points you can take a captain and 5 full tactical squads with special and heavy weapon.

With the Raven Guard chapter Tactics, this whole army can redeploy as scouts. So by the end of turn one, provided you deployed on the edge of your zone, you'll be at the center of the table with 51 marines in power armour.

You can also use any unit in the army to outflank, and everyone gets +1 cover save in the first turn.

If you've placed objectives cleverly, how can anyone shift 51 marines off the objectives with a 1000 point army?

>> No.27753085

>>27753047

but I can't figure out to do with that last 55 points...

I have 1 rhino, so I'm considering putting one of the squads in the rhino and out flanking with it

>> No.27753117

>>27753085

here is my list btw

Would probably cut Echo Company in the Rhino as they have the shortest range weapons

Belisarius, Master of the Recruits.
Space Marine Captain - Bolter, Teeth of Terra, storm shield. 140
Strike from the shadows, winged deliverance.

(140)

-------------------------------------------------

Alpha Company
Tactical Squad (10) - Plasma cannon, plasma gun. 170
Strike from the shadows, winged deliverance.

Bravo Company
Tactical Squad (10) - Heavy bolter, flamer. 150
Strike from the shadows, winged deliverance.

Charlie Company
Tactical Squad (10) - Heavy bolter, flamer. 150
Strike from the shadows, winged deliverance.

Delta Company
Tactical Squad (10) - Plasma cannon, plasma gun. 170
Strike from the shadows, winged deliverance.

Echo Compay
Tactical Squad (10) - Multimelta, melta gun, melta bombs. 165
Strike from the shadows, winged deliverance.

_____________________________

945

>> No.27753155

My Hive Splinter is like
1 Tervigon
10 Gargoyles
60 Genestealers
200 Termgants
What's a fun unit I could pick up.

>> No.27753256

So how come the honour guard get Artificer Armour by defaul, but the chapter master that leads them has to buy the upgrade?

>> No.27753301

>>27753256

because he doesn't have to go with an honour guard

>> No.27753347

>>27750999
>>27750764
use allies and collect both

>> No.27753355

>>27753256
because Cruddace fucked up a bunch of shit. Techmarines that have an option to pay for something they get by default, command squads that cant take special weapons, etc. I think the rules are generally pretty decent, but fuck some better proofreading would have been nice

>> No.27753390

>>27753355

Command squads can take special weapons, they FAQ'd it.

>> No.27753423

>>27753155
zoanthropes

3 zoans in a spore, all with psychic shriek, throw them at enemy infantry and watch them erase chunks of squads per turn

or a doom in a spore

>> No.27753509

>>27753117
>Space Marine Captain - Bolter, Teeth of Terra, storm shield. 140
considering how your army seems to be get into position and shoot the guys to death can I recommend you go terminator armour (for sexy relentless), primarchs wrath (for sexy 5 S4 AP4 Shred shots per turn) and a power axe (for sexy mashing of anyone dumb enough to charge that unit)

Belisarius, Master of the Recruits.
Space Marine chapter master- termie armour, primarchs wrath, power axe. 190
Strike from the shadows, winged deliverance.

(190)

-------------------------------------------------

Alpha Company
Tactical Squad (10) - Plasma cannon, plasma gun. 170
Strike from the shadows, winged deliverance.

Bravo Company
Tactical Squad (10) - Heavy bolter, flamer. 150
Strike from the shadows, winged deliverance.

Charlie Company
Tactical Squad (10) - Heavy bolter, flamer. 150
Strike from the shadows, winged deliverance.

Delta Company
Tactical Squad (10) - Plasma cannon, plasma gun. 170
Strike from the shadows, winged deliverance.

Echo Compay
Tactical Squad (10) - Multimelta, melta gun 160
Strike from the shadows, winged deliverance.

810

comes to 1000 points exactly

>> No.27753756

1842/1850 r198


HQ -430

Space marine Captain w/Teeth of Terra, Artificer armor,gravgun 160 points.

Command squad w/apothecary and storm shields+4 plasma- 215
Razorback w/TL Flamer -55
Troops -632
Tactical marines+2 w/ melta/melta bombs /serg-combimelta - 118
Rhino- 35

Tactical marines+2 w/ flamer/melta bombs /serg-combimelta - 118
Rhino- 35

Tactical marines+2 w/ plasma /melta bombs /serg-combiplasma - 128
Rhino- 35

Tactical marines+2 w/ plasma/melta bombs /serg-combiplasma - 128
Rhino- 35


Fast Attack- 190

assault squad 2x flamers- 95


assault squad 2x flamers- 95


Heavy support -590

Predator w/TL lascanon and lascannon sponsons -140

3 dev centurions w/grav cannon's -250

Storm Raven w/lascannon -200 points

I've been debating changing up the captain and giving him a flamer to give him so nice short to midrange combat ability, but I'm not so sure

>> No.27753769

>>27753756
Tactics?

>> No.27753776

So how can I run a mono Khorne Daemon hoard army? Namely what to buy and etc.

Don't care if I'll win or lose.

>> No.27753832

>>27753769
I'm leaning heavily to raven guard for all the stealthiness.

>> No.27753853

>>27753509

I get 205 for that termie

models with the bulky special rule don't get to take the scout move though

>> No.27753862

I picked up this sexy terrain piece on ebay last week.

>> No.27753875

>>27753756
also just to add to all this; can apothecaries take storm shields? nothing says they can't but then I'm not sure if upgrading a veteran to apothecary still makes the ma veteran.

>> No.27753876

>>27753832
I'd say give the captain a jump pack so he can run around with the assault squads if you're going ravenguard.

>> No.27753877

>>27753832

yeah. I think Raven Guard is probably the best for a number of builds including the tactical spam

that free scout move and free outflank is nasty and the +1 cover save in turn one makes you more resilient to the alpha strike

if you take rhinos, you're in your opponent's deployment zone on turn 2 if you want, but you're better off hopping out in rapid fire range and just lighting him up

>> No.27753888

>>27753876
I'm leaning toward that, probably going to ditch a tactical squad to buff up the assult squads

>> No.27753992

>>27753888

thing is space marine aren't really that great at assault.

the raven guard tactics have some pretty serious implications for devastators and tacticals as well because you're getting this stuff halfway across the board by the end of turn one.

a devastator squad with 4 multimeltas will be in range on turn 1 and will be hard to hit in return with +1 cover save

>> No.27754055

>>27753155
More gargoyles.
2 broods of 25 for maximum fun.
And by fun I mean annoying.
Mawloc is interesting, pretty fun. better as trygon, but again- fun. Biovores, too.

>> No.27754074

>>27753992
my only disadvantage with taking multimelta devastators means I have to give up my air and anti-tank/MC units too.

It's incredibly hard balancing point rations while trying to keep with the potentially traping of all those monsterous creature units out there.

>> No.27754105

>>27753862
Nice, how much was it?

>> No.27754408

>>27753875

Apothecaries have no wargear options.

>> No.27754650

>>27754074

i like a 5 man tactical squad with multimelta w/ ravenguard tactics.

only costs 80 points and it's scoring

>> No.27754822

What terrain do you guys use?
Me an friends usually just play on a table with cardboard boxes or other shit like that as cover.

>> No.27754848

>>27754822
Thinking of buying Christmas decor to use as terrain.

Namely churches and stuff.

>> No.27754932

>>27754848
Definitely. Especially since it's Halloween, you can convert all sorts of holiday decor easily.

Pic related. It's being sold at Michaels. I just need to take a 28mm figure to the store, go to their seasonal isle, and check out the scale on some of their featured product. Usually that shit will be on sale.

>> No.27754959

>>27754822

$5 each

Bought like 6

>> No.27755010

>>27754959
WHERE?! WHERE ARE YOU GETTING THOSE?! Are they always $5, or was that just some special somewhere?

>> No.27755159

>>27752763
Yea Ive noticed this as well, Im thinking of placing an order with this guy but im a bit hesitant

Also what do you guys think of this list

>HQ
Rune Priest (130pts)
-chooser of the slain, rune armor

>Elites
Wolf Guard Pack (743 pts)
-5x TDA, Arjac Rockfist, 2x power fists, chainfist, TH/SS, Cyclone missile launcher, 4x combi weapons
-Dedicated Transport: LRC, multi melta, extra armor

Dreadnought (130pts)
-, plasma cannon

SW Contemptor Dreadnought (215pts)
-Extra armor, TL auto cannon, DCCW with heavy flamer, saga of the iron god

>Troops
Grey Hunters pack (220pts)
-10x grey hunters, 2x plasma guns, wolf standard, power weapon, rhino

Grey Hunters pack (210pts)
-10x grey hunters, flamer, meltagun, powerfist, mark of the wulfen, rhino

Fast Attack
Landspeeder (70pts)
-heavy flamer, multi melta

>Heavy Support
Long Fangs pack (145pts)
-2 missile launchers, 2 lascannon

Vindicator
-Siege shield, storm bolter

Total: 1998 points

>> No.27755164

>>27754959
Have you got a link to wherever you got them? Thanks in advance kind anon

>> No.27755177

>>27754959

want

>> No.27755210

>>27754959

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Scorched-city-28mm-modular-wargaming-terrain-set-Sci-fi-Historical-1-48-1-56-/251330514092?pt=Games_US&hash=item3a84774cac

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Iron-Curtain-high-28mm-modular-wargaming-terrain-set-Sci-fi-Historical-1-48-1-56-/251336548076?pt=Games_US&hash=item3a84d35eec

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Scorched-city-10-SPRUES-28mm-modular-terrain-set-Sci-fi-Historical-1-48-1-56-/251330513546?pt=Games_US&hash=item3a84774a8a

>> No.27755222

>>27755210
heh

crazy russian recasters

>> No.27755250

How do fortifications work with army lists? Wanted to add some to my marines but have no clue how.

>> No.27755275

>>27748805
>Deploy them with side armor facing opponent if going first
If you just suggested him to do this in friendly games, you're a fucktard.

>> No.27755295

>>27755275

the fuck?

you know marines irl use their humvees for cover right?

it's called tactics.

now, moving your tank a couple of inches out of the way, pivoting it,180 degrees and then flat outing it back in front of your troops in the shooting phase after they shoot is beardy

but using your transport for cover after you disembark is just common sense

>> No.27755341

>>27755275

If you deploy with side armor facing the opponent as far up as you can deploy, you get 2-3 inches closer to the opponent when you pivot.

>> No.27755347

What would I need if I wanna play Blood Ravens using the current Space Marine codex?

I mainly want to play a gunline Blood Ravens army going to steal, I mean, acquire more relics/gifts.

>> No.27755359

>>27755347

Nothing. Blood Ravens have no special rules.

>> No.27755368

>>27755359
What stuff should I use to best represent them?

>> No.27755377

>>27755347
blood ravens don't have their own rules. they are a chapter made up by the dawn of war video games

blood angels, however, have their own codex

>> No.27755386

>>27755295
>but using your transport for cover after you disembark is just common sense
I'm all for this. but not for what this faggot said >>27755341

>> No.27755391

>>27755368

Most people will tell you to max out librarians or use Grey Knights because PSYKERS, PSYKERS EVERYWHERE, but that's bullshit. Name one Dawn of War game where Blood Ravens even had more than one Librarian?

I'd say get a Captain or Chapter Master, and a Librarian for your HQs.

Then if you want to be fluffy make sure you have at least 1 scout squad, 1 devastator squad, 1 assault squad, and 1 tactical squad. Maybe 1 Dreadnought for Thule. Honestly just make a generic marine list and pick whatever rules you want.

There used to be cool characters you could use to make the DoW2 heroes, like the Minotaurs devastator sergeant, Telion the scout sergeant, etc, but now that the Space Marine book has been updated and the FW sergeants are outdated, it's likely you will not be able to use them, plus Telion is Ultramarine only which would lock you into Ultramarine rules and not allow you to use other heroes.

>> No.27755394

>>27755386

Eldar don't advance with their Wave Serpents, Tau don't use transports, and Daemons don't have vehicles. Any army you are playing that would abuse this tactic deserves to be able to use it. Nobody cares about your shitty opinion.

>> No.27755404

>>27755394
Whatever. Enjoy the disappointed look on your friend's face when you do it.

>> No.27755409

>>27755404
>oh no his transport is 2 inches closer

Most opponents are too busy dealing with scouting bikes or Raven Guard to give a shit about 2 inches.

>> No.27755413

>>27755404

Stop contributing to /tg/'s already abysmal level of skill and gameplay and enormous levels of scrubbiness.

>> No.27755422

How badly do I rape the fluff if my SoB is on friendly terms with the group's Psyker?
And I mean "friendly terms", not "fuck like rabbits". Just throwing that out now cause /tg/ is gonna /tg/. They're both girls anyway.
Alternatively, how close could anyone be to a Psyker?

>> No.27755434

>>27755413
Might just be a lost cause. The only thing /tg/ is genuinely good at is throwing around massive amounts of cheese in PF.

>> No.27755455

So, /tg/, I'm working on my army list and I've come to the point where I've planned everything but I can't just stick another troop choice. Since I'm playing a SM list, Can't I just split up that one, poor tactical squad in twain as per Combat Squads rule and have them count as the two compulsory Troops choices I need to call this list done?

>> No.27755463

>>27755422

Take it to your PnP thread.

>> No.27755469

>>27755455

No. You have to split them permanently into 5 and 5 to meet your 2 troop requirement, and they can never be joined.

You should never have less than 20 troop models as C:SM. You're going to lose every game that has objectives with only 10 troops.

>> No.27755470

>>27755463
There's one up? I didn't find it in the catalog.

>> No.27755480

>>27755455
I... what?

First of all, no, it still counts as a single squad for list-building purposes even if you end up combat squadding.

Secondly, you know you can just run two 5-man units, right?

>> No.27755481

>>27755470

Then make one.

>> No.27755499

>>27753155

I really like my Hive Tyrant with wings and double devourers. Shooty as hell, really hard to hit while flying, some magic, and pretty tough in melee too.

>>27753423
Or what he said, Zoans are sweet, especially the Doom in a pod.

Or even some Carnifexes. You don't have any big bugs.

>> No.27755540

>>27755422
>They're both girls anyway.

This is going to be hot

>> No.27755656

>>27755422
>They're both girls anyway.

>> No.27755666

>>27752724

Really? You can't google a guide for that? Space Wolves blue-grey is actually pretty easy in comparison to some other colours like pure white which is the biggest bitch on the planet.

>> No.27755699

>>27753776

Generally the best ways to run mono-god armies is to proxy the other units in as those.

E.G. Making a khornate version of Fiends of Slaanesh, or even seekers. Bloodletters riding on Fleshhounds perhaps?

Saw a cool conversion for winged bloodletters once with no back legs (I think) which acted as those Tzeentch manta things (The name has left me).

Magic is a bit more difficult to proxy for Khorne stuff, but you could do it in casual games I guess and have like a bloodletter holding a chain with a fireball attached and have it act as the purple sun of xereus.

>> No.27755704

>>27755666
>pure white which is the biggest bitch on the planet.

Ain't that the truth.

>mfw realizing that Iron Hands are supposed to have PURE FUCKING WHITE on their weapons.
>Welp, there goes my plan for easymode 1-shot black basecoating

>> No.27755716

>>27753776
Sure.

Bloodthirster, 3 Heralds on Juggernauts, Fuckshittons of Khornedogs, some Bloodletters, and a few Soul Grinders and/or Daemon Princes.

>> No.27755731

>>27755704
>leave weapons off
>prime white
>paint details

>> No.27755793

>>27755704

Mechanicus Standard Grey
Celestra Grey
Ceramite White

Couldn't be any simpler.
Even works on large, flat surfaces like my Dreadnought.

>> No.27755807

>>27755793

Do you recommend getting the Mk IV Ironclad or the regular box one? I can't decide. I like the Mk IV one better but it costs a lot more and I don't exactly hate the boxy one either.

>> No.27755829

>>27755455

let's see this fucking list

Don't leave home without at least 30 marines

40 is better

>> No.27755832

>>27755807

If you like the plastic one I'd get that.

I only got this one because I was at GW's HQ in Nottingham and didn't need to pay for shipping.
That and I think the plastic one looks like aTonka toy.

>> No.27755907

>>27751072

I did some fists about a month ago

they looked... OK.

but just not a paint scheme that's worth the effort

dark marines are so much easier and to make the model pop, just give them bright bases, like snow or bright red moon rocks or whatever

that's the trick to making dark models work. bright bases for the contrast

>> No.27756328

I'm so happy the IF chapter tactic makes heavy bolters viable for tactical squads, just because HBs look so cool.

>> No.27756479

Hey /tg/. There’s a tournament coming up in the next two months, and I want my vanilla marines to get some final action before I put them up for sale. I want them to go out in glory.
• Chapter Tactics
Imperial Fists

HQ (230pts)
• Captain Darnath Lysander (230pts)

Elites (485pts)
• Terminator Assault Squad (485pts)
-TH/SS (20pts)
-4x Terminators (160pts)
o Land Raider Crusader (260pts)
-Multi-Melta (10pts)
o Terminator Sergeant (45pts)
-TH/SS (5pts)

Troops (605pts)
• Tactical Squad (210pts)
-Lascannon (20pts)
-Plasma Gun (15pts)
-Rhino (35pts)
-9x Space Marine (126pts)
o Space Marine Sergeant (14pts)
-Bolt pistol, Chainsword

• Tactical Squad (210pts)
-Lascannon (20pts)
-Plasma Gun (15pts)
-Rhino (35pts)
-9x Space Marine (126pts)
o Space Marine Sergeant (14pts)
-Bolt pistol, Chainsword

• Tactical Squad (185pts)
-Flamer (5pts)
-Rhino (35pts)
-9x Space Marine (126pts)
o Space Marine Sergeant (19pts)
-Chainsword, Storm Bolter (5pts)

Heavy Support (430pts)
• Devastator Squad (200pts)
-4x Missile Launcher (60pts)
-9x Space Marine (126pts)
o Space Marine Sergeant (14pts)
-Bolt pistol, Chainsword
• Predator (115pts)
-Autocannon
-Lascannon sponsons (40pts)
• Predator (115pts)
-Autocannon
-Lascannon sponsons (40pts)

Fortification (100pts)
• Aegis Defense Line (100pts)
-Gun emplacement with quad-gun (50pts)

Any critique welcome.

>> No.27757171

>>27748776
I think it would be really neat if it was an option to take a chaos space marine champion in a cultist squad.

I also see no reason why chaos space marines do not have access to drop pods or razorbacks or AA whirlwinds.

I think Chaos deserves more marine gear because they were balanced with the concept that they get demons, before demons got their own codex.

>> No.27757273

How's this for 1000 points of fists?

Captain - Teeth of Terra, Artificer Armor - 145pts
Tactical Squad - Flamer, Heavy Bolter, 10x, Rhino - 190pts
Tactical Squad - Flamer, Heavy Bolter, 10x, Rhino - 190pts
Devastator Squad - 4x Lascannons - 150pts
Terminators - Cyclone Missile Launcher - 225pts
Aegis Defense Line - Quadcannon - 100pts

Trying to decide whether to go for centurion devastators with lascannons and missiles instead of regular devastators for more survivability, but they're just so points heavy. Also considering whether to drop artificer armor on the captain in favor of combi weapons on the sergeants.

>> No.27757276

>>27755159
>1 rune priest.
You can pump out up to 4 below 2000, and that can all have divination.

MOAR RUNEPRIESTS!

>> No.27757540

>>27756479
You ebaying them ?
Mind putting a link on /tg/ if you do ?

>> No.27757784

>>27757540
Getting B& for advertising tho.

>> No.27757876

I'm liking the Eldar codex, but they're still confusing as hell for me. Can anyone provide a decent 500 pt "learning" list or something? An example of something that's confusing me: normal troops. Do I take Dire Avengers or Guardians?

Also, is the battleforce a decent buy for these guys? I know you can't go wrong with Wave Serpents, not sure about the Vyper though.

>> No.27758083

>>27757876
eldar are terrible with their new codex, ignore them.

>> No.27758170

>>27755829
>Don't leave home without at least 30 marines

This is good advice for life.

>> No.27758207

>>27757171

Chaos has been sucky since they had to nerf the overpowered 3.5 codex with its legion rules. The lack of drop pods and such is pretty ridiculous considering how much they get used in 40k fluff.

>I think it would be really neat if it was an option to take a chaos space marine champion in a cultist squad.

Attach a dark apostle. That's pretty much what they're there for.

>> No.27758220

>6E Looks a lot of fun
>Want to see how my old Tau play now that they got a new codex
>Realize I sold my army around the time 5E came out and I'm poor as fuck.

What do? Theorycraft the rest of my life?

>> No.27758245

>>27758207
>Chaos has been sucky
What's so terribly about them? I'm not doubting you, but there's this guy around here who keeps going on about how great the CSM codex is, and I'd like to shut him the fuck up with actual points about why. He talks about how great defilers are.

>> No.27758299

>>27758220
Search Vassal 40k. Can be annoying to understand, but plays just like tabletop.

>> No.27758303

>>27758299

Oh shit, that's still around? I thought GW murdered it.

>> No.27758329

>>27758303
They're trying to. No luck so far, so get it while you can. Shit's awesome bro.

>> No.27758372

>>27758245
>He talks about how great defilers are.

He's retarded, don't worry about it too much.

>> No.27758404

>>27758372
battle cannon, lascannon, nice ccw, the hell's wrong with dfeliers?

>> No.27758434

>>27758404
Battlecannon makes all other weapons fire at BS1 thanks to the Ordinance rule, so all their secondary guns are basically useless, and they're too slow to make a good melee unit.

That, and AV12 is still way too squishy to justify their price tag.

>> No.27758435

>>27758245

Heldrakes and plague marines are ridiculously good, but the rest of the codex is basically "crappy loyalists" with the additional caveat that every character in your army has to declare challenges and has to accept challenges, leading them to get splattered by any codex that actually lets you pimp out your characters for challenges. It's also riddled with overcosted units (thousand sons, warp talons) and stupid design decisions like not giving warp talons assault grenades (and their "blind nearby units when they deep strike" special rule is awful on so many levels") and nerfing mark of khorne (used to be +1 attack, now only applies to the first round of combat) and tzeentch (used to give a 5++ minimum).

There's a few neat tricks you can do with units (daemon prince with wings and the black mace, deepstriking termicide squads with combi-weapons, etc.), but on the whole it's a mediocre codex propped up by one overpowered unit that renders all other fast attack choices obsolete.

>> No.27758530

>>27758434
>Battlecannon makes all other weapons fire at BS1 thanks to the Ordinance rule

Not who you were replying to, but I totally didn't realise that. No idea why that rule is in the vehicle section, rather than in the actual rules for ordnance weapons.

>> No.27758642

>>27758434
All you have to do is fire the other weapons first, dumbass, then shoot the battle cannon.

>> No.27758750

>>27758642

You fire all your weapons at the same time, cretin.

>> No.27758759

>>27758642
Not how it works bro, all weapons are fired simultaneously.

>> No.27758779

>>27758759
>>27758750
Where's it say that in the rules?

>> No.27758818

>>27758642
>A vehicle that fires an Ordnance weapon can only make Snap Shots with its other weapons that turn
>HERP DERP I'LL JUST FIRE THE ORDNANCE WEAPON LAST

Do you actually try to pull that shit in games?

>> No.27758828

>>27757876
today i tried eldar for the first time.
5 wraithguards with d scytes, a spiritseer, 6 dire avengers, 5 scouts and 3 jetbikes.
got my ass kicked but it was fun as fuck

>> No.27758832

>>27758642
This are the type of people that play 40k on /tg/

Why do people ask for tactical advice

>> No.27758864

>>27758779
Vehicle shooting rules are like any other unit.

Every unit must fire all weapons simultaneously. it's been like this forever

>> No.27758987

>>27758828
What were you playing against?

>> No.27759091

>>27758987
dark angels, 20 marines and command squad with stendard that lets you shoot 4 shots per marine if they are stationary.
the psionic gave bined shots to everyone.
i couldn't get past the table 80 fucking requiem shots man
i only was able to do something by shooting an running back in the cover again and thanks to scouts killing a bunch of marines per turn

>> No.27759161

>>27759091

The Dark Angels' dakka banner is truly a thing to be feared.

>> No.27759225

>>27759161
yeah, didn't know they could make so many fucking shots

>> No.27759300

>>27759225

Yup. Anyone within 6" gets to make 4 bolter shots at max range providing they don't move.

It's even worse if you use it with Ravenwing because their bikes give them relentless, so they never count as having moved.

If you don't have the means to snipe the banner dude (or pie plate all those bunched up marines), you're definitely in for a tough time.

>> No.27759342

>>27759300
the banner was behind a giant wall on the other side of the table, couldn't take it with scouts
it was pretty lame from his side but well i just need to git gud

>> No.27759432

>>27753155
I don't usually recommend them too much, but you might consider venomthropes. You're very very swarmy, and that's where they do best.

>> No.27759441

is mechanized infantry fun to play?
that or i woul just stick with my guards line and maybe buy some krieg

>> No.27759690

>>27759441
Chimera spam used to be fun but now you moght as well be fielding paperweights. I've actually been exerimenting with footslogging guardsmen squads with conscripts + lord commissar as a meatshield. All dem scoring units, all dat fucking with tau markerlights.

>> No.27760182

>>27755250
you get one per detachment

>> No.27760195

>>27759441
Back when tanks weren't free kill points you gave to your opponent, yes it was quite fun.

>> No.27760197

>>27759432
This isn't the list I actually run, it's just what I own. I'd have to remove the Tervigon to be able to put all of that on the table.
But I do love Venomthropes.
>>27753423
>>27754055
>>27755499
Thanks

>> No.27760664

>>27756328

HBs are now the premier choice for mobile tac squads in all chapters because of the 3 snap shots.

the re-roll ones to hit is just a bonus for IFs

the HB synergizes so well with bolters and the flamer.

on overwatch you're getting the auto hits from the flamer, plus the 3 snap shots from the HB plus the bolters

and they're all S4/5 AP4/5 so they're all useful against the same type of target

>> No.27760681

>>27757273

i would drop the termies and take another squad of tacs in a rhino

and i like the normal devs but you need more guys in the squad for the ablative wounds

>> No.27760725

1500 IG

Company Command Squad

Infantry Platoon
-3 Infantry Squad
-1 Command Squad

Infantry Platoon
-30 Conscripts
-2 Infantry Squad
-1 Command Squad

Infantry Platoon
-30 Conscripts
-2 Infantry Squad
-1 Command Squad

Infantry Platoon
-30 Conscripts
-2 Infantry Squad
-1 Command Squad

Infantry Platoon
-30 Conscripts
-2 Infantry Squad
-1 Command Squad

Infantry Platoon
-30 Conscripts
-2 Infantry Squad
-1 Command Squad

Total: 1500 Points

315 Soldiers

Can having this many soldiers negate the need for anti-anything?

>> No.27760734

>>27760664
HAHAHA.

No.

Heavy Bolters are still extremely mediocre

>> No.27760739

>>27760725

in certain scenarios yes

because you're just going to flood objectives and refuse to die

and if you can build a big enough wall of flesh around the objective, they can't get close enough to it to deny it

>> No.27760753

>>27760734

couldn't disagree more

3 strength 5, AP 4 shots is great against anything not wearing power armour.

plus it's rate of fire means even with snap shots you have a decent chance of hitting something

>> No.27760779

>>27760734

but i'll agree HB is bad for shooting at Land Raiders, which is no doubt what you think I'm suggesting because you're clearly one of those guys

A HB will outperform a lascannon when shooting at Orks, Guard, Eldar, Tau infantry

you go from killing 1 guy to possibly killing between 1 and 3

>> No.27760788

>>27760725
you know, i could actually make a conscript/meatshield army.
should i?
is it really good?

>> No.27760791

>>27760734

I bet you think bolters are a bad gun too because they're 'only' strength 4

>> No.27760805

>>27760788
I don't know, I just was messing around in Battle Scribe and thought "how many people can I cram into a 1500 point army"

Is there any way to get more than 315 guys into a 1500 point army?

>> No.27760834

>>27760753
Ignoring the fact that most units in this game wear power armor.

AP4 is wasted on the fact that 4+ saves are still extremely common.

3 shots is suddenly volume of fire? My god, I must be obliterating all those units that get near me with my 2 shot bolters, what I would give for a single bolter to have ONE MORE SNAP SHOT.

>>27760791
Bolters are free and "spammed" in that everyone has one. Heavy bolters are not free and unspammable.

>>27760779
You're taking two items and applying them in completely different contexts. The fact is that tactical squads are pretty damn shitty and the heavy bolter is a complete waste of points. It marginally performs better than a standard bolter and has no real niche to make up for it. I would rather take a fucking missile launcher. Higher number of possible wounds inflicted, and the side effect of being able to hurt medium armor. And even MISSILE launchers suck.

>> No.27760915

>>27760834
This question is mostly related to some homebrew stuff i'm doing but do you think heavy bolters would be worth it if they were AP3 even in an army that already had a LOT of AP3?

>> No.27760925

>>27760834

> The fact is that tactical squads are pretty damn shitty

see, we'll just never agree

the tactical squad, imo is the single best unit in any codex

especially now.

in fact, most of the top SM players are starting to call Codex SMs a 'horde' codex

because the best tactic is to flood the field with tacticals

you sound like you're stuck in 5th edition to me

>> No.27760981

>>27760915
Probably not. Whats the point of taking something that you already a fuck ton of

>> No.27761014

>>27760925
Wow. Tactical marine the single best unit in any codex?

Holy fuck the delusion.

>> No.27761044

>>27761014

how do you rate units?

they're ability to kill stuff? or their ability to win games

in 40k you win games by holding objectives

name a unit better at holding objectives than a tactical squad

>> No.27761066

>>27761044
A plague marine squad.

>> No.27761087

>>27761066
For several reasons, similar cost, tougher, better in close combat, fearless so won't get moraled off a point, double special weapons so can outshoot a tactical squad easily, can take heldrake hits better.

>> No.27761104

>>27761044

Dire Avengers. Jetbike Squads.

>> No.27761185

>>27752763
It's just him running the shop so you can understand.

>> No.27761194

>>27758832
Holy shit a person was wrong about a rule on the internet better shitpost about it

>> No.27761211

>>27761066

that's fair. but they do cost more

>>27761104

no

>> No.27761212

>>27761194
It's an extremely fundamental rule that drastically changes how the game is played

>> No.27761230

>>27760788
Take Cheknov and a lord commisar/yarrik, give full conscript squads send in the next wave and keep commisar within 6inches for that sweet ld10 + re roll. Watch your enemy try and shift your impentrable wall of respawning man meat

>> No.27761240

>>27760834
>Ignoring the fact that most units in this game wear power armor.
Most units in the game have a 4+ or worse save because most units in this game are fire warriors and dire avengers, with necron warriors and daemons the next most common.

>> No.27761255

>>27761212
so you better bitch and moan about how bad /tg/ is because a single person was wrong about a rule

>> No.27761279

>>27761255
It's fairly common for /tg/ to not know simple rules or concepts, or lack the ability to read.

Such as the entire debate over cover saves and grav guns. Literally no RAW or RAI justification for granting cover saves, still argues it does.

>> No.27761287

>>27761211

>No

Dire Avengers have 5++ invul for squad, 4++ for exarch and 3++ for exarch in CC. Where a tac squad will get blasted away by any pie plate, Heldrake or Reaper squad, Avengers will hold with better shooting, CC and mobility.

A minimal squad of Jet bikes is one of the best troop choices in the game and can zoom in on last turn and claim objectives once all your shitty tac squads have been killed ten times over.

>> No.27761303

>>27761240
Distinction. Most tourney level players are currently fire warriors and dire avengers. And even those units will be in cover 99.9999% of the time or in a transport that laughs at your HB and make your Ap4 completely pointless.

>> No.27761308

>>27761287

no

>> No.27761310

>>27761044
A blob of 50 guardsmen. With a Commissar.

>> No.27761314

>>27761308

Well argued.

>> No.27761331

>>27761314
no

>> No.27761346

>>27753776
I run 4 x 14 blood letters with banner + 1 bloodreaper with ap2 sword

4 x herald of khorne with axe + loci of rage
-this brings my units to fluffy 16

1 Bloodthirster x 1 exalted reward

16 x doggies of khorne

And either 3 khorne cannons for TEQ or less than MEQ at 1750 or 3 soul grinders @ 1850 with phlem for MEQ or heavy mech or flyers.

I think it's okay, I just fear chariots that I would use them wrong.

>> No.27761363

>>27761314

thx

you're not so bad yourself even though you clearly don't actually play 40k and just read warseer

>> No.27761405

>>27761044
7 man squad of plague marines with 2 plasma guns

>> No.27761444

>>27761044
Tac Marines are, in fact, good.

However, they are not good in meta and theorycrafing.

Why is this?

Well, it's because EVERY GODDAMN STRATEGY IN THE GAME is about killing Tactical Marines.

BRING MORE AP3, it's literally what weapons are judged by in every codex.

Can you wound Marines on a 3+? Oh, right, everyone can now, because that's the golden standard.

Marines are a unit so good that, right now, EVERY SINGLE FACTION in the game that's doing good is ENTIRELY based around killing them.

Every good strategy, good unit, and good player is based around the death of the Tactical Marine, at being better at killing them and more efficient with their firepower.

So, yes, Tac marines are good. Except that the game is pretty much based around shitting all over them, so fuck that noise.

>> No.27761514

>>27750679
fuck off furfags

>> No.27761530

>>27761444

So then they aren't good.

>> No.27761532

>>27761444

> theorycrafting

ever notice how none of that shit works irl though?

tacticals win out because of strength in numbers and leveraging that T4, 3+ save

they're aren't the shootiest, they aren't the close combattyist, but they're damn hard to shift and they're decent both at shooting AND with their knives

again, SMs in 6th edition are a horde army

and all the shit that seems to work for Tau and Eldar right now relies on you not having enough terrain for the table

and just wait for the next couple of books

Eldar and Tau are going to take a massive hit, Marines aren't

>> No.27761562

>>27761532
I do have a feeling that an IG update could royal fuck over the tau.

>> No.27761567

Orks and Tyranids are the next books

shooty armies are going to get raped by codex creep

>> No.27761619

>>27761567

I mean they already gave us grav guns

imagine what they're going to give Tyranids and Orks to deal with the corny shit Tau and Eldar players are using

>> No.27761657

>>27761619
Im hoping for Deffkoptas and Stormboys who can melee flyers

>> No.27761671

>>27761363

>Give reasons for why a unit is better than tac marines
>Fuck off back to warseer

Never been to warseer, but they can't be much scrubbier than /tg/.

>> No.27761687

>>27760681
That additional seventy points of bolter in an anti tank and air squad seems so wasteful though. But i suppose its better than losing the heavy weapon carriers. Why not the terms? I was thinking they were good counter assault support. Would a command squad be better or cheaper? An apothecary wpuld be nice but i feel like a standard is just counter productive when i suck in melee.

>> No.27761688

>>27761530
Precisely.

>>27761532

Except that SM's are a shitty horde army. Any actual horde army will tell you that.

For an example, a friend of mine plays Orks. he will horde the fuck out of you - Pain isn't pain until he brings about 200 boyz to a 1000 point game because he was feeling lul-zy.

Meanwhile, about 30-40 marines max are going to be feeling the pain of maybe making 40/60 shots, with half of those sticking the wound, and a third of THOSE being cancelled out by fucking KFF.

>they're aren't the shootiest, they aren't the close combattyist, but they're damn hard to shift and they're decent both at shooting AND with their knives

Them being a good middle ground army is a really good point, however. Space Marines CAN be good because they can take advantage of any flaw your opponent wishes to leave open.

Back to the Orks example, I had a particularly hilarious victory by parking two Rhinos in front of their squad and charging it with a group of Tac's. 3+ saves say fuk u to snapshots, and because of how I'd maneuvered the Rhinos only 4-5 boyz could get into combat at a time - If they lost combat and decided to leave I'd just sweeping advance them, and until then it was an easy curb-stomp battle on that front that had the nice bonus of effectively denying that entire front to the enemy, allowing my Whirlwind to hang out and launch explosives everywhere until he managed to swing his 'boyz around the entirety of the battlefield.

Still lost, it's goddamned impossible to get that many bodies off of objectives. But it wasn't a curb-stomp because I didn't try and match him body-for-body.

>> No.27761715

>>27761671

on a point for point basis, all those options you gave are still inferior to marines

>> No.27761775

>>27761688

you can get 50 tacticals in 1000 points.

and if you take IFs chapter tactics, the orks won't even make it across the board

provided you bring enough....

heavy bolters

>> No.27761782

>>27761715

Would you care to justify that.

The question is what is better at holding objectives than tac marines. I gave an example of a unit that can duck in and out of cover with run/shoot/run and has invul saves.

How are tac marines better at holding objectives when all I need to do is point a fire prism at them?

>> No.27761811

>>27761782

you have to be able to see them for that

yes, on a completely open table, Eldar are pretty great, but what happens when you put terrain on the table?

>> No.27761844

>>27761811

Eldar love terrain far more than Marines with battlefocus and ignore cover serpents. That's an argument for Avengers if anything.

>> No.27761846

>>27761775
3 heavy bolter Imperial Fist dev squads bringing the pain

>> No.27761875

>>27761775
50 tactical in a 1000 points? Holy shit.

You know what else I can take in 1000 points? 2 heldrakes. Easy. Delete a unit of tacs a turn.

What else? 2 riptides. Delete two units of tacs a turn.

What else?

2 squads of lootas. Delete two units of tacs a turn.

What else?

Fucking dark eldar, 40 billion poisoned shots each. Delete a unit of tac marines from long range.

50 marines is CHUMP CHANGE.

>>27761775
Holy fucking shit. 9 s5 shots at BS 4.5 at 36" range on non relentless models. SO OP.

>> No.27762316

How do I play Grey Knights without being hated?

>> No.27762365

>>27762316
just don't use the draigo train list

>> No.27762472

>>27762316
Its not as hated as much.

Lots of your insane gimmicks finally got toned down 6e.

>> No.27762495

>>27762316
Play them like you would any other army. No GK list is really broken, so go nuts.

>> No.27762612

What is the order process for zhanchui? Cool castor doesn't have some products that I'm looking for and I hear zhanchuis recast quality is better

>> No.27762795

>>27750764

I'd avoid marines altogether. They are the most boring faction.

>> No.27762825

>>27760681
That additional seventy points of bolter in an anti tank and air squad seems so wasteful though. But i suppose its better than losing the heavy weapon carriers. Why not the terms? I was thinking they were good counter assault support. Would a command squad be better or cheaper? An apothecary wpuld be nice but i feel like a standard is just counter productive when i suck in melee.

>> No.27762829

>>27757876
Guardians and dire avengers are both good at murdering infantry from the pseudo rending of bladestorm; the main difference is that guardians are short range and greater numbers, while the range of the dire avenger catapults let them do the move-shoot-move thing really well.

Jetbikes do the move-shoot-move thing even better, with 4T better weapons and fewer shots, and they can be used to rush objectives on the last turn.

>> No.27762838

>>27762795
>>presenting opinion as fact

>> No.27762859

>>27753003

The battlewagons will get blown to shit in no time and your sluggas will never make it without trukks.

Replace the wagons with a bunch of trukks and then get stompin' as your ROAD HOUSE army trucks across the field

Trukks are also open topped so you get to fire your shitty handguns

>> No.27762871

>>27752763
Serves em right.

>> No.27762898

>>27753862

>that stained glass

Well fuck me sideways, how did they do that

>> No.27763027

Am I wrong, or does Relentless allow you to assault no matter what you shot?

Don't have my rule book on me, at the moment.

>> No.27763047

>>27763027
IIRC it doesn't list Ordnance but other than that pretty much yeah

>> No.27763055

>>27759300
I rape that banner with TFC fire

>> No.27763119

>>27760734
Yet somehow I'm doing great with mine. Even against... What? Power armor??? But moronic anon said they were bad! How can this be???

>> No.27763122

>>27762316
Just play them.
Knights aren't anywhere near as strong as they were in 5th anymore.

>> No.27763136

>>27757171
Kharn the Betrayer
-In rhino with

Chaos Space Marines x 9
-Close combat weapons
-mark of khorne
-flamer
-rhino

Khorne Berzerkers x 10
- chain axes x 9
- power sword
- melta bomb
- rhino (w/combi flamer)

Cultists x 10
- flamer
- mark of khorne
- rhino

Havocs x 5
- autocannons x 4
- mark of nurgle
- in aegis defense line

Aegis Defense Line
- quad gun

- 987 points

>> No.27763153

>>27760925
Tacs are great. I agree.

>> No.27763164

>>27762838

I wouldn't care if someone did that, but the worst part is this dipshit is spreading stale old anti-marine sentiment in direct response to a person who is locked into two marine choices.

It's like someone talking about rap artists and then some faggot walks up and goes, "Yeah, nah, niggers are gay."

>> No.27763181

>>27761875

two heldrakes can also get one shotted by tacticals with a missile launcher

>> No.27763192

/tg, I'm considering starting a small Loyalist army as a contrast to my Chaos Marines.
Which is arguably the most useful chapter tactic?

>> No.27763195

Are you guys seriously arguing that tactical marines aren't one of the worst troops in the game?

Again?

Goddamnit, /tg/.

I'm going to start making Retard Generals. You can take all your "Riptides aren't OP, Tau aren't OP, Wave Serpents aren't OP, Eldar aren't OP, Daemons aren't OP, ATSKNF is OP, marines are OP, Heldrakes aren't OP" bullshit and keep it THERE instead of shitting up every other 40k thread.

>> No.27763203

>>27761875

also, Heldrakes and Riptides aren't scoring

so how are you going to win?

>> No.27763213

>>27763195
A containment thread on a containment board?
Yes please.

>> No.27763246

>>27761782
Your fire prism already got buttfucked by my drop pod melta squad. It wouldn't live past turn turn 2

>> No.27763270

>>27761875
Take your meds. You skipped a dose.

>> No.27763282

>>27763213
>40K generals on the board created specifically for 40k

>> No.27763286

>>27763119

I can do fine with a Khonre Berserker army.
Doesn't mean its good.

>> No.27763320

>>27763195
No autist, they aren't arguing, they're sharing experiences. Completely different thing. Don't you have quest threads to sperg over?
>HOW DARE PEOPLE LIKE A THING I DON'T LIKE

>> No.27763321

>>27763195

honestly, no one in my area plays Tau or Eldar and everyone thinks Helldrakes are ugly models

not everyone lives in the same weaboo wonderland you do infested by power gamers with no friends

in fact, some of us actually play 40k... with out friends

I'd love to see you at a friendly pick up touch football game wearing full pads going full contact on people who are just trying to have a good time and get some exercise and then you go home and boast on the internet about how you totally broke some noobs collarbone because 'the idiot wasn't even wearing pads ROFLWTF!!!!1!!!'

some people like to enjoy their lives. not everyone just spitefully tries to bring everyone around them down to their own personal level of misery like you do

>> No.27763343

>>27763286

I love when idiots go "if you think marines are bad you just suck. marines are totally better than Tau and Eldar".

I can whoop Eldar and Tau all day but it doesn't change the fact that they're better books. But then idiots will go "if they're better why do you beat them so much?"

>> No.27763344

>>27763181
Thats the most retarded thing I've ever heard. The chance that a missile launcher will kill an Av11 ground vehicle with no cover is already like in the 15% range. Add snap shot, av12 AND 5++ invul?

If that were true space wolves with their 5 man long fang squads are amazing at AA now? Because last I checked, space wolves fell out of favor because they lacked good AA.

But this is exactly why /tg/ is bad at 40k. Retarded comments like this

>> No.27763345

>>27763164
Yeah pretty much. He just thinks he's a cool hipster for joining the anti-marine bandwagon.

>> No.27763378

>>27763344
shut the fuck up already you stupid fucking shitposter nobody cares

>> No.27763380

>>27763203
So? That's 400-500 points of units that will utterly buttfuck your army and you have no answer to them AT ALL.

They delete 2 units at a time. Don't even have to kill them, just kill enough to make them completely combat ineffectual. And this is a RELIABLE strategy.

Add in squads of plague marines that outfight your tactical marines in every single way possible, and your horde marine list just got its ass shoved in.

>> No.27763385

>>27763320

It's not a question of liking or not. It's an evaluation on a unit's efficiency.

It's like advocating building a skyscraper out of gold. When people point out gold is not a very strong material, it doesn't mean they don't like gold.

>> No.27763398

>>27763321

* with OUR friends

>> No.27763405

>>27763378
This is how the average neckbeard reacts when he knows that he is wrong.

>> No.27763419

>>27763380
I have to agree, a Drake or a Tide will almost always make its points back the turn they come in unless the guy playing them fucks up spectacularly.

>> No.27763423

>>27763344

5++ save! OMIGOD!! that's a 1 in 3 chance of saving

HOW OP CAN YOU GET??!?!?!!!!!!!!1!!!

>> No.27763429

>>27763181

I've seen 3 Heldrakes weather 5000 points of Apocalypse shooting, including Titans and D-strength weaponry.

>> No.27763438

>>27763343
But I didn't say that.

>> No.27763445

>>27763405
epic edgy 10/10 I like it

>> No.27763449

>>27763344

> he's never heard of flak missiles

>> No.27763452

>>27763192
Don't choose a chapter because of how good their rules are. Choose a chapter depending on what sounds must fun to you in both painting and ruleswise.

>> No.27763458

>>27763321

Not everyone lives in your fantasy land either. Some people have to play at GW stores, some people can't find any wargamers for any system, and some people have to play with kids or hyper casuals who think pivoting vehicles is cheesy.

>> No.27763470

>>27763423

Other flyers get none unless they jink. And also tend to have less HP, less AV, and don't regenerate HP.

Wait, is this a thread really arguing how Heldrakes aren't OP? How does that even happen? Heldrakes aren't good right now due to Tau and a little bit of Eldar, but that doesn't mean they're still not retarded.

Is this the same thread saying tactical marines are good too? What the fuck?

>> No.27763473

>>27763423
How in the world did you get "op" from that post.

The post is just pointing out that the chance a missile launcher will kill a heldrake is like 3% per shot.

And marines don't have the ability to properly spam missile launchers.

And no interceptor units. You literally have no way of preventing a heldrake from making back its points on the first turn when it comes in by wiping out 1/3 of your army with no counter possible by any other part of your army

>> No.27763490

>>27763449
>he pays for MLs AND flakk

You done fucked up. If you want AA it's better to take allies and dedicated skyfire/interceptor. Even the Stalker/Hunter are pretty trash against actual dangerous flyers like Stormraven, Heldrake, and Vendetta due to HP3 AV12. Flakk missiles are just too expensive and don't come in high enough numbers. If you were SW Long Fangs and got free flakk, then maybe. You'd still die to Heldrakes and have no interceptor.

>> No.27763504

>>27763449
Flakk missiles are NEVER taken by anyone who isn't a fucking retard.

It's 15 points extra ONTOP of a mediocre weapon that already costs 10 points apiece on a 3+ unit T4 unit that has no way of preventing the heldrake from killing it on the turn it comes in.

Also its str fucking 7, which needs a 6 to fucking pen. And even then it still needs to go through a 5++, and then needs to actually roll a 5/6 to kill it.

>> No.27763560

>>27763504
>Flakk missiles are NEVER taken by anyone who isn't a fucking retard.

Hey man, some really good comp players have taken flakk before. Reecius to name one. But that's just to test them out, and after the game he was like, "Yeah, nah, I'm not taking flakk anymore."

>> No.27763664

>>27763282
Exactly, only there's two generals, one is for retarded people.

>> No.27763677

>>27763429

i don't believe you

>> No.27763687

>>27760834
>ap 4 wasted by the fact that 4+ armor saves are common
Do you know how ap works in this game?
4+ sv models don't get saves vs ap 4

>> No.27763701

>>27763687
Nice putting "armor" in where there wasn't before.

It was implied 4+ cover saves are extremely common. Which they are

>> No.27763807

>>27763701
He didn't say cover, and was talking about armor saves in the previous sentence.

>> No.27763887

>>27763807
Does it matter?

4+ cover saves are extremely common. Ap4 is pretty much wasted.

>> No.27763980

>>27763677

It's not hard when you only hit them on a 6 and they have 5++. It's not like it was 5000 points of titans. Just 5000 points.

>> No.27763981

>>27763119
>what is luck?

>> No.27764096

>>27763981

Luck has no place in discussion as almost all discussion revolves around averages and math/theory. Luck is more anecdotal. Besides, luck goes both ways. If you can win against Tau because you're lucky, there will be games where you lose on turn 1 because you're unlucky.

Necrons with loaded dice is the worst.

>> No.27764142

>>27763136

I'd probably ditch the chainaxes and try to get some icons of wrath to stop you from getting those embarrassing failed charges when it comes time to assault. A lightning claw is probably a better weapon than a power sword for your skull champion due to the number of attacks he gets on the charge (I haven't crunched the numbers, but the re-rolls to wound always seemed more useful than the extra attack from his bolt pistol).

>> No.27764234

>>27762612
this

I seriously cant figure out how to order from the taboa page

>> No.27764269

>>27758435

I think it's great personally. Everyone and their mothers are dumping CSM armies on ebay and other sites. More for me, I'll just wait for the next edition to balance things out.

My predictions
>warp talons will be cheaper
>assault will be more viable
>vehicles and walkers will actually become useful

I'm buying stuff left and right

>> No.27764274

>>27762612
>>27764234

I knew about zhanchui and CCON before /tg/ even heard of them.

I'm not a genius. Why is it so hard for you guys to learn things on your own?

You need an agent to act as an intermediary for taobao.

>> No.27764372

>>27762829
I thought the move shoot move thing didn't work with bikes since they can't run, only flat-out?

>> No.27764448

>>27764372

Battle Focus does not work with Guardian jetbikes.

>> No.27764547

>>27763181
>two heldrakes can also get one shotted by tacticals with a missile launcher

I just crunched the numbers. Against an AV12 5++ flyer, you have 0.04 chance to cause a penetrating hit with a krak missile and a 0.07 chance to cause a penetrating hit with a flakk missile. You then have a 1/3 chance of immobilising or destroying him. This is after he's already had a turn to flame your ass.

tl;dr: yeah, good luck with that.

>> No.27764575

>>27764448
No jetbikes, right? What's the point of Battle Focus on them then?

>> No.27764586

>>27764575
fluff

>> No.27764595

>>27764547

The idiots won by making you waste time calculating the sub 1% chance of MLs actually being good when the rest of us dismissed it automatically since it's obvious to experienced players it's just not in the numbers for the MLs S vs. the Heldrake's stats.

>> No.27764611

>>27764575
Same reason Lysander has a iron halo and a storm shield.

Consistency. As a captain he wears an iron halo

>> No.27764642

>>27764547
For what it is worth, I have never had one survive a volley from my warp spiders with an exarch with twin-linked death spinners and fast shot. Five months. Not one.

>> No.27764655

>>27764642
>Heldrakes got your space marines down?
>Just play Eldar!

Fuck off.

>> No.27764680

>>27764642

Why do you think Heldrakes aren't used anymore dipshit. Broken books like Tau and Eldar keeping Heldrakes in check does not help weaker books when they actually have to play against Heldrakes, let alone Tau and Eldar.

>> No.27764688

>>27764655

At no point did he say that. Stop being a jerk.

>> No.27764715

>>27764688

He's responding to a discussion about imperial missile launchers vs. Heldrakes with Warp Spider bullshit. You can fuck off too.

>> No.27764741

>>27764680
>>27764655
Settle down, Beavis. I just found the thread. Didn't realize the asshole patrol was already here.

What about your pretty new stalker? How's that working out against the flying turkeys?

>> No.27764765

>>27764741
>What about your pretty new stalker? How's that working out against the flying turkeys?

You're a dipshit.

>> No.27764776

So regarding the Eldar, is the battleforce along with an autarch/farseer/some other cheap HQ a decent army base?

>> No.27764780

>>27764765
Answer the question.

>> No.27764794

>>27764780

It sucks, dumbass. It's good against skimmers and shitty flyers though.

>> No.27764801

>>27763164
>>27762838

>circle jerking on each other

Need a wipe? Space Marines simply have the least variety in their units and tactics. Almost all of their units look boring with large surfaces in the same color. SM are the painting practice unit of 40k.

>> No.27764823

>>27764780
They're mediocre.

A) They take up insanely contested/important HS slots.

B) AV12 ground target

C) No interceptor. No shooting at ground targets well.

>> No.27764830

>>27764269
>mutilators become the next big thing and their models are remade into chosen level
>thousand sons and bersekers become overpowered

...i can dream right. one day we'll take down terra and the emperor like horus promised. one day.

>> No.27764846

>>27764269
>Stocking up on shit units in the hope that they'll get a buff next edition
>Expecting CSM to ever get any love from GW

I don't fancy your chances, anon.

>>27758435
>plague marines are ridiculously good

T5, FnP, Bolter, Bolt Pistol, 4+ poisoned CCW, frag grenades, krak grenades, defensive grenades and being able to take two special weapons for 24pts a man is goddamn crazy compared to the rest of the book.

They also don't pay for the mandatory +10pt veteran sergeant that every other unit in the 'dex has to, because GW can't proofread for shit.

>> No.27764852

>>27764547

4 Imperial Fists devastators with flak missiles

score 3 hits

1 glance/pen

reroll

score another glance/pen

so two squads take it out in one round of shooting and can then turn their attention to either chaos marines with their krak missiles or chaos cultists with their frag missiles

>> No.27764873

>>27764823
Thank you. I also play BA, so I often wonder what the other side of the fence looks like.

I also don't se the point off shooting missiles at dead hard flyers. My point was massed firepower versus hull points works. However, I wouldn't know how to squeeze that much firepower out of a vanilla marine army and I probably wouldn't bother in a BA list.

>> No.27764876

>>27764715

At no point did he suggest that you should drop marines, just that heldrakes are not invincible. Quit being mad.

>> No.27764903

>>27764852
No.

1 glance.
.5 pens.

per hit

Don't fucking lump them together.

And the 5++ to go through. And IWND.

And the fact that the heldrake, if it really thinks your dev squads are a threat at all will wipe them out the turn it comes in and make back its points just like that because you just spent tons of points on a shitty unit.

>> No.27764909

>>27764852

Don't crunch the math on 3 Heldrakes vs. your Devastators. Because there won't even be enough missiles left over to fire since you don't have Interceptor.

>> No.27764922

>>27764873
Therein lies the problem. Marines do not have anything all that is strong enough and at the same time massable enough to deal with an Av12 5++ flyer.

Only valid counter really is more marine flyers

>> No.27764923

>>27759441
Tons of fun to play, but that doesn't mean just spam chimeras.

Make a balanced list with tank and air support (1 tank, 1,2 flyers) and field a bunch of special weapons. Basic guardsmen on foot a great for protecting your chimeras and tank(s) and
AV 12 means that the chimera makes a great transport (but av 10 sides make it an awful assault vehicle, but hey it's only 55 points and takes heat off its squad)

>> No.27764928

>>27764801

Post photos of your painted army

>> No.27764956

>>27764876

Heldrakes are not invincible if you play an army with OP firepower like Tau or Eldar.

That sure helps. You know what else isn't invincible? Riptides. Do you even run the math for this shit or do you just run your mouth like the idiot you are? Bet you think DE can kill Riptides easily.

>> No.27764961

>>27764741
It would be great if it could be squadrooned.

Problem is, it takes up a valuable HS spot. Better to use stormravens/talons for air support/anti-air

>> No.27764970

Any fellow Iron Warriors bros use marks or do you still strictly follow the undivided?

>> No.27764973

>>27764595

I kind of wanted to know what the numbers were myself, so I have actual statistics I can point to and go "missile launchers are precisely THIS shit against flyers".

What the fuck were GW thinking when they priced up a marine with a missile launcher and flakk missiles. Jesus Christ.

>> No.27764983

>>27764956
Helldrakes aren't a problem because they are hard to kill, it's because they get a free squad wipe upon arrival.

>> No.27765036

>>27764983

Sure, but it doesn't help that Heldrakes ARE hard to kill for marines unless you run allies or flyers, and only if your flyers arrive second and your AA has interceptor.

>> No.27765042

>>27764922
I won't disagree with you, but I haven't even tried to see for myself so I can only take your word for it.

>>27764961
That can be said of a lot of things, though. I honestly though war walkers would get larger squadrons and prisms would get squadrons to better enable their rules. Bow was I surprised.

>> No.27765053

>>27764776
Anyone want to break the heldrake circlejerk and let me know about the Eldar battleforce?

>> No.27765086

>>27765042

Are you fucking serious? War Walkers are already amazing as they are.

>> No.27765091

>>27765053
Sure. It won't even come close to giving you anything you can use besides a wave serpent and five avengers. The rest will go to waste unless you make the guardians into storm guardians and get them a warlock and their own serpents. The vyper will not see use at all.

>> No.27765108

>>27765053

Don't even start with your bullshit accusations of circlejerking. Every single time, this one included, the bullshit started because some clueless faggot decided to insist Heldrakes were bad.

>> No.27765113

>>27765086
They are awesome now, but last codex they were okay, but not awesome. I was sure they would get a larger squad size as a way to get people to buy them.

>> No.27765171

>>27765113

I don't think there are any squadrons larger than 3.

>> No.27765173

Is there any way to make an assault Dark Eldar army work, or am I doomed to speed around the board shooting 200 lances and poison at people?

>> No.27765209

>>27765173

Wyches and Incubi are alright. Beastmasters might work too.

>> No.27765363

>>27765113
So war walkers are pretty decent, huh? I had it in my mind that they were like Sentinels, so I assumed they were shitty.

>>27765091
Thanks. So buying it wouldn't be the way to go, but rather another squad of dire avengers and a wave serpent, I'm guessing? Also, for the ccw guardians, I take it the warlocks buff them with runes of battle, making em a better specialized unit.

>> No.27765391

>>27764852

Okay, I'll crunch the numbers.

4 Imperial Fists devastators (i.e. tank hunters) with flakk missiles, re-rolling non-penetrating hits:

2/3 chance to hit and 2/3 chance to get through invulnerable is 4/9 (0.44)

S7 against AV12 is a 6 to pen, re-rolling failed penetrations is 1/6 + (5/6 x 1/6), so 11/36 (0.3)

You then have a 1/3 chance of immobilising or destroying it.

0.44 x 0.3 x 0.33 = 0.04

You have four marines in your squad.

0.04 x 4 = 0.16

Your four Imperial Fists marines have a 0.16 chance of dropping it with an immobilisation/destroyed result per shooting phase.

tl;dr: An Imperial Fists has a 0.13 chance to cause a penetrating hit with a flakk missile compared to a regular marine's 0.07. Again: good luck with that.

Can't be arsed to do the math for whittling down its hull points with glancing hits.

>> No.27765418

>>27765363

War Walkers aren't decent, they're one of the best units in the book. They're not Wave Serpent levels though and they're not auto-take since there's other good HS you can take instead.

>> No.27765437

>>27765391

What if you don't want to play IF? Then they're even worse.

Retards on /tg/ never do the math they just spout out shit that's blatantly wrong. You don't even need the math to know Heldrakes are good. It's HP3 AV12 for 170 points. AND 5++. AND IWND. AND the torrent flamer. You don't need to do the math, but apparently some people are so stupid they not only don't do the math, they also can't comprehend why it's good, so they just run their stupid ass mouth.

>> No.27765469

>>27765363
They are good, yes. Accurate massed S 6 firepower.

I don't know. I thought about it. You could buy two and that would give you a DA squad and a SG squad in sepents and a generic guardian squad to sit on an objective. If you bought another vyper you could set them up as your anti-tank with bright lances. You could hit the bits bin at your local store and use the spare five avengers to make a couple of autarchs, two (counts as) warlocks, and possibly a (counts as) farseer if you got lucky enough with the bits. Would be serviceable, but not necessarily good.

>> No.27765505

>>27764956

You are so rump razzled because some armies are better than others. I couldn't imagine how exhausting it must be to get this mad about that.

Space marines have AA options. They aren't as good as Tau, but they're there. You can either mass flyers, Flak and AA or put up and shut up and stop being a dick.

>> No.27765547

>>27765505

I'm rump razzled because people deny that the other armies are better than mine.

It's one thing to play a shitty army. It's another to deal with retards on /tg/ saying your army isn't disadvantaged against Tau, Eldar, and Heldrakes.

>> No.27765571

>>27765505

If your posts are going to be about the Heldrake not being broken then it's you who needs to shutup and stop being a retard.

I like how you don't even address the Riptide part. How do marines beat Riptides? 24" Grav Centurions that cost 280 points? 18" Grav guns? Play White Scars with 3+? Even you're not stupid enough to try to open that can of worms.

But guess what, SOME PEOPLE ON /tg/ ARE. And they're the same idiots you're defending.

>> No.27765582

>>27765391
>whittling down its hull points with glancing hits.

Just crunched the numbers for that. Each marine (still accounting for tank hunter) has a 0.24 chance of taking off a hull point with a glancing hit or better. With four guys you're still average about one hull point a turn.

That it can just regenerate.

>> No.27765595

>>27765363
* Warlocks (80pts) (Codex: Eldar (2013) p29)
(--Must Be Primary Detachment--, Ancient Doom, Battle Focus, Fleet, Psychic Discipline: Runes of Battle, Psyker (Mastery Level 1), Rune Armor)
* Warlock (40pts)
Singing spear (5pts)
* Warlock (40pts)
Singing spear (5pts

* Autarch (105pts) (Codex: Eldar (2013) p27)
(Ancient Doom, Battle Focus, Fleet, Forceshield, Independent Character, Path of Strategy)
Fusion gun (10pts), Haywire grenades, Mandiblasters (10pts) (*), Plasma grenades, Power weapon (15pts), Shuriken pistol

* Autarch (105pts) (Codex: Eldar (2013) p27)
(Ancient Doom, Battle Focus, Fleet, Forceshield, Independent Character, Path of Strategy)
Fusion gun (10pts), Haywire grenades, Mandiblasters (10pts) (*), Plasma grenades, Power weapon (15pts), Shuriken pistol

* Dire Avengers (320pts) (Codex: Eldar (2013) p31)
(Ancient Doom, Battle Focus, Counter-attack, Fleet)
10x Dire Avenger (130pts)
* Exarch (45pts)
Battle Fortune (15pts) (*), Power weapon and shimmershield (20pts)
* Wave Serpent (145pts)
Holo-fields (15pts) (*), Serpent Field, Shuriken cannon (10pts), Twin-linked scatter lasers (5pts)

* Guardian Defenders (110pts)
(Ancient Doom, Battle Focus, Fleet)
10x Guardian (90pts)
* Heavy Weapons Platform (20pts)
(Relentless)
Brightlance (20pts)

* Storm Guardians (285pts)
(Ancient Doom, Battle Focus, Fleet)
2x Fusion gun (20pts), 10x Guardian (90pts), 2x Power Sword (30pts)
* Wave Serpent (145pts)
Holo-fields (15pts) (*), Serpent Field, Shuriken cannon (10pts), Twin-linked scatter lasers (5pts)

* Vyper Squadron (210pts)
* Vyper (70pts)
Brightlance (10pts), Shuriken cannon (10pts)
* Vyper (70pts)
Brightlance (10pts), Shuriken cannon (10pts)
* Vyper (70pts)
Brightlance (10pts), Shuriken cannon (10pts)

>> No.27765649

>>27765505
>Space marines have AA options.

This thread has conclusively proved that they are also fucking terrible and a complete waste of point.

>> No.27765824

Are Swooping Hawks any good? Seems like they are to me, but I'm still a new player so I might not know what the fuck I'm talking about.

>> No.27765844

Space marine shooting is too weak and not numerous enough to really do anything. This is because most of the points are spent on the power armor and 4/4/4/4 tax.

You cannot do what you would do with Tau or Eldar or IG and just spam heavy weapons or mid strength fire to reliably take stuff down.

This is a fact. It's in the numbers. So if you don't play space marines, or you don't play competitive douchebag opponents who bring 3-4 Heldrakes or 3-5 Riptides, stop trying to tell experienced marine veterans how they're doing it wrong.

>> No.27765872

>>27765824

They're not terrible, just not as good as other shit.

They look pretty neat. You won't go wrong running a single squad for looks and using them very carefully. I wouldn't make an army based on a whole bunch of them.

Hawks are lucky. My favorite aspect are Shadow Spectres and Dark Reapers, and while they do have advantages over Swooping Hawks, I think they're much much shittier.

>> No.27765909

>>27765824
>>27765872
What this guy said. They are good against light armor and hordes, but they won't win you any games unless your meta has an abundance of both.

>> No.27765923

>>27765571

>If your posts are going to be about the Heldrake not being broken
>Implying I said that
>Still strawmanning

My God you actually INVENT reasons to be upset.

>> No.27765961

>>27765923

By indirectly defending the "Heldrakes can be killed with ML" posts and telling the people who are refuting those posts to stop posting, you are, in fact, propagating the "Heldrakes can be killed with ML" bullshit.

>> No.27765996

>>27765961

Never told anyone to stop posting. I said to stop being a cunt and stop putting words in people's mouths.

>> No.27766003

>>27765923
Oh snap. This gonna be good.

>> No.27766023

>>27765961
However slight the chance, they CAN be killed by missile launchers. Very slight chance, but it is possible.

>> No.27766047

>>27765996
>telling people to stop being cunts
>with posts that start with 'u mad'

You're doing it wrong, Cunty.

>> No.27766080

>>27766023

You can win the lottery. Doesn't make spamming lottery tickets a sound strategy.

>> No.27766129

>>27765844
It's exactly why Tactical marines suck.

You cannot rely on them to do anything well. Reliability in a role is extremely important. Being "decent at everything" just means you lose when you meet something that does a single thing extremely well.

>> No.27766133

>>27765824
Why did Eldar steal Scourges

>> No.27766419

>>27766047

I asked you to stop being a cunt in much nicer words before that, but you literally could not stop being strawmanning and insulting, so from now on I'll merely address you as piss midget. As in, I can't believe there are whiny piss midgets still beating that dead horse well after heldrakes have ceased to have influence in competitive play.

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