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[ERROR] No.27704797 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Is it just me or does Cain seem kinda like an asshole?

He's kinda written like he's supposed to be Han Solo except cowardly but I think he kinda fails in that end. Sure the book is funny at times, I laughed at loud on the occasion. But Han Solo was awesome because he was confrontational, when Cain is dealing with people he doesn't like he just a smug douche who tries to fuck with people as much as he can just because he's bored. It's mean spirited but it's almost as if the author wants you to root for him while he does this.

For example, after another fleet of guardsmen refused to play sports with his own guardsmen. This was because they thought it was inappropriate for men and woman to do physical things with each other in an informal setting. When someone from their fleet walked into a recreational area for the Kastinians a woman beats their ass. When a commissar from the rival guardsman faction comes over to complain Cain just completely blows him off. He actually tells him to sit down in the most uncomfortable chair he could find, and he wants Jugen to make him tea because he knows Jurgen makes him feel uncomfortable.

Is this a British thing or something because I just can't get behind these sequences. They don't improve the character at all. All around Ciaphus is a decent character, he's funny, he's a good fighter, he can be brave sometimes. But when the writer makes Cain mistreats people because he thinks its cool I can't help but cringe.

>> No.27704830

He does what he thinks is effective

>> No.27704849

Ples explain.

>> No.27704886

Does anyone else an opinion on the subject?

>> No.27704902

English people are amused by dickish behaviour, yes. Being a britfag, I know this.

The clearest inspiration for him is Blackadder, although the Cain books are obviously not as good as Blackadder.

>> No.27704915

Well that explains it.

>> No.27705069

in that situation if the other commissar wanted to they could have shot the woman for what she did, cain is shown many times throughout the books to antagonize himself to take the heat off of the troops under him, you have to read into some of his actions a bit to fully understand them.
even amberly says that he refers to himself in a very self deprecating way whereas what he's actually done has been to help as much as he can

>> No.27705128

You've confused the situation, they didn't just refuse to co-operate, they were holier than thou dicks about it.
They were also shockingly naive about the inevitable reaction from the guardsmen in question.

Also, Cain knew and hated the guy in question from school.

>> No.27705158

>> No.27705186

It's a very British kind of comedy I guess. Britfag here, and I love Ciaphas Cain, along with Blackadder and the whole archetype, which is quite common in stories from the UK.

>> No.27705191

Smug asshole being a dick to people is just one of those cliches that people love.

See house, for another example, and the recent depictions of Sherlock Holmes (in the books, he never a dick for no reason), and that "psych" series.

>> No.27705219

The situation you specifically name isn't a case of Cain doing it because it's cool. He's doing it because he isn't willing to make a big scene out of some inconsequential minor issue. Unlike many another Commissar, he's learned that Guardsmen need to blow off some steam and that it works best if you just let them as long as the don't go too far. Also, both sides were pretty much resonsible for the incident and he personally couldn't stand the other Commissar.

>> No.27705261

Cain wasn't a dick to his face, he just write about the bullshit he deals with in his fucking journal. Even a Commissar has to vent, and this IS the military which isn't exactly a popularity contest.

>> No.27705305

How is he smug? He says he's a coward, but if you ignore his self-deprecation you see he really is a hero.

>Alerts a base to a suprise tyranid attack
>Survives Necrons
>Survives Necrons again
>Uncovers Tyranids
>Uncovers more Tyranids
>Uncovers seven more Tyranids'
>Stops Chaos
>Stops Chaos again
>Survived Dark Eldar at one point
>Friends with Space-Marines
>Protects his men
>Gets Inquisitor booty

Commissar Ciaphus Cain is the hero the Imperium needs, and the hero it deserves

>> No.27705313

I always got the feeling the Cain books were Flashman, in spaaaaace!

>> No.27705346

They are. They're a literal copy.
Surviving things doesn't make someone a hero.

>> No.27705351

>Commissar Ciaphus Cain
>Ciaphus Cain

>> No.27705356

>Uncovers seven more Tyranids

The Seven Tyranids: Hungry, hungry, huNgry, hunGry, HUNgry, hunGRY, and Hun-Gore, The All Consuming.

>> No.27705369

So what happens when Ciaphas Blackadder meets Inquisitor Tucker?

>> No.27705390

An actual coward would just run from a daemon invasion; not have the foresight to see that fighting is the only option and pulling it off.

What always tickles me the most about the books is that Amberly publishes these big archives about Cain which show him as a big self-loathing coward, and every other footnote it's basically her going, "Yeah, I tapped that."

>> No.27705414

Someone post that image of Amberly as a teenager writing the books as fanfics about Cain

>> No.27705430

I have never needed something more in my life. Who has it?

>> No.27705449

They bone

>> No.27705541

How do you even pronounce his first name?

Also, I feel conflicted about picking up game-licensed books after being badly burned by Kidd and the ToEE book. But a Dark Sun novel which I didn't know it was one until I started reading (shitty publishing thing, no logo on the cover) turned out to be okay.
So, are Cain books really that good and how is the Baneblade book?

>> No.27705560

I love how the books are full of biographer bias. you can tell where Amberly changed or removed things because they made her look bad or someone she doesn't like look good.

>> No.27705593

>The clearest inspiration for him is Blackadder, although the Cain books are obviously not as good as Blackadder.
No, he's a blatant (and poor) parody of Flashman.

>> No.27705622



You really don't know what a parody is, right?

>> No.27705662

I know his name is pronounced differently than this, but I like to pronounce his name "Kai-ah-fas" because it sounds cool.

>> No.27705675

I'm getting the feeling this thread was made with added autism, not saying this to be insulting I am saying that OP is quite literally autistic.

>> No.27705679

Like Syphilis mixed with Priapus

>> No.27705801

its Kai Uh Fuss

Hard K focusing on UH like grunt and Fuss?

Cain is cane like a walking cane

>> No.27705813

Rolled 100

I like to pronounce the C as an S and having the A be a silent one simply because i feel it rolls off the tongue easier, so basically Siphus Cain instead of Ciaphas Cain.

No idea what's the correct way to pronounce it.

>> No.27705842

Fass or Fuss, I don't mind.


I hate the sound of it with an s-sound c.

>> No.27705851

>This was because they thought it was inappropriate for men and woman to do physical things with each other in an informal setting.

You mean the Tallerns who thought that women were unsuited to being warriors?

And their their unarmed combat champ got his ass beat.

I would say that was deserved.

>> No.27705870

>how is the Baneblade book

It was ok, but read the titan book, it's better

>> No.27705872


Sports? It was an unarmed martial arts competition, wasn't it? Their competitor refused to fight his Valhallan opponent because she was a woman, so said woman hunted him down afterwards and they got into a fistfight.

>> No.27705877

>got into a fist fight
By which you mean she beat him like a red-headed step child.

>> No.27705913


They're pretty good if you like 40k military adventures, not HIGH LITERATURE, but pretty good. I enjoyed them, at least.

>> No.27705931


I'm pretty sure she IS a redheaded stepchild.

I like how subtly they pointed out that she's a lesbian, and don't make a big deal over it or treat it as especially bizarre.

>> No.27705948

I'm amused by them and that's literally all I ask of the books. Whatever faggot decided that high literature is better, can fuck right off.

She is redheaded, though I'm not sure who she's the stepchild of, and yes, she has the lesbians, which it's treated as such a trivial detail, that I think it's adorable, even if it's attached to a monster.

>> No.27705954

I don't read HIGH LITERATURE, it's usually rubbish. And stuff that isn't usually wasn't written as HIGH LITERATURE.
I wanted to read Baneblade book because it's specifically about a Baneblade. But the price tag on BL books is pretty high even for books, at least from my country perspective and I don't think I'll find it easily second hand.

>> No.27706007

I don't care that the audiobooks say "Yurgen," it's "Jurgan" in my mind and it always will be.

>> No.27706024

What arguments do you have for this, other than just screaming "Autism"!

>> No.27706067

I had heard it pronounced correctly elsewhere before so I was acclimated to "yurgen" took me some getting used to

>> No.27706112

>I wanted to read Baneblade book because it's specifically about a Baneblade

Oh ok. Without revealing too much about the plot, it revolves around the crew of the baneblade - particularly the baneblades commander, and the new officer recently added to the crew.

Also it has one of the scariest Ork warbosses and scariest wierdboyz ever.

After grunting out an attempt to convince a techpriest to fix-up a Shadowsword for the warboss to use as his battle-tank - speaking through a captive human translator, the warboss responds to the techpriests refusal in near-perfect gothic "that's a real shame, that is. I tried to do this the way you imperials do things, with trade and bargains, and you said no. Now I'm going to have Greeneyes look inside your head. You won't enjoy that."

>> No.27706124

that's creepy as shit

>> No.27706141

Corporal Magot is a nutter. Only in the imperial guard man...

Kills an ork by shooting it up the ass
Comes through a necron tomb no crazier than when she went in
Crushes a lictor by driving a chimera over it

>> No.27706168

Tank shocking a Lictor is a perfectly reasonable response.

>> No.27706204

oh yes.

and Greeneyes (the Weirdboy) is worse.

The fight takes place on a world known for it's psychoactive crystals - rocks used to make force weapons etc - enhances psychic powers. As Greeneyes is ripping through the techpriests mind he explains how the warboss is just a tool. He has looked into the warp and seen the vast pillar of light that is at the centre of the humans imperium, and he thinks that's a great idea "I'll raise my own light in the warp, a green one that will attract every ork there is, to make the Waaargh that will end all other Waarghs. And the humans will be our next enemy."

>> No.27706221

in the middle of a crowded room full of civilians when the lictor is closing in melee with a commissar?

>> No.27706266


>> No.27706269


There is a good story over on /k/ right now of a British student who got pictures taken of him hunting pigeons by air rifle on his estate by another student and the headmaster called him in to his office to berate and belittle him.

I mean just mad stuff like when he told them he was removing vermin from the property he rhetorically asks well what other things or people would you consider vermin. Then made the comment he was exactly like the sniper who shot jews from his house in Schindlers list. The ending to the story is quite good. Its in the hunter harassment thread.

It is kind of a British thing I guess there is this sort of talking down to people thing you see come out in their media and peoples personal stories. Sort of a putting people in their place mentality. Its really just a cultural variant on the usual bullying thing though. Its structured less of a I don't like you and more of a passive aggressive dressing down of why you are poor and pitiful from a position where the other person cannot fight back.

>> No.27706281

wow, they figured out how to make orks terrifying, make them smart

>> No.27706286

Since there isn't a list thread can someone give me some suggestions on my first list?
Krieg, 2000 points
- Company Command Squad [140]
carapace armor, master of ordnance, body guard, body guard
- Quartermaster and Retinue [100]
- 4 Quad Launchers, 8 additional crew [248]
- 4 Quad Launchers, 8 additional crew [248]
x2- Krieg Platoon [720]
Platoon command, vox, 2 grenade launchers
x3 Infantry squads, vox, 2 grenade launchers
Heavy weapon squad (3), lascannons
- Engineer squad [110]
Hades drill
- Medusa, 3 crew [118]
- Medusa, 3 crew [118]
- Medusa, 3 crew [118]
- Aegis Defense Line [50]

>> No.27706310

I find it hilarious that Jurgen looks down on Magot for her reckless driving.

>> No.27706331


>> No.27706359

Jurgen is a perfectly good driver.

He's never crashed unless ordered to do so. Heck he can even drive ork vehicles.

>> No.27706376

Well you can guess what my barbarian villains are gonna be like in the next rpg I run.

>> No.27706380

I think he's mainly a good driver because he was fortunate enough to never fuck up when he first started to chauffer Cain, and he's been doing it for so long that he's now a driving genius.

>> No.27706399


>> No.27706474



Mah man

>> No.27706480

Start a list thread

>> No.27706517

The Red Fury in a Warlord titan facing 3 chaos Reaver Titans on the Titans Steps.

"You were once something noble: a pure machine. Before I kill you, tell me your name"

>> No.27706558


>a book about a baneblade

Nigga you need to read the Angel of Fire, for the first half the of the book its BANEBLADE STRONG

>> No.27706578


Do know how deadly a lictor?

>> No.27706594


I've always wondered how the pure Machine Spirit of a Titan looks upon its more...corrupted brethren

>> No.27706636

Magot is the regiment's little pet monster.
There's always a use for someone who reacts to a an Ork mob with "Yay, more Greenies to kill!"

>> No.27706672

>Lictor? I never even touched her.
>-Mari Magot

Anger mostly, sorry at lost brethren. The oldest Titan machine-minds remember fighting in the Horus Heresy.

In the book the titans minds are shown as being incredibly intelligent, but also very animalistic - with the Warhounds the worst.

The Princeps is constantly struggling against the titans mind.

Lord Gearheart (Red Fury) is worried that one day he'll lose his sense of self fighting against the titans own mind.

He remembers when he was Moderati and had to pull the plug on his own Princeps because they went insane.

"Karing was raving in his tank in the end, screaming about battles long ago. That will not happen to me, I will not surrender to the darkness."

>> No.27706722

Every time some faggot says this, I know he's just repeating something some other faggot said. The books' only commonality is that they purport to be the journals of travelling soldiers.

Full stop.

Flashman reveals himself to be an insufferably pompous, leg-wetting coward and ignorant racist IN THE FIRST TWO CHAPTERS OF BOOK ONE. But the plot soon reveals his SERIOUS personality flaws ... You fool no one but yourselves. Stop shitting up discussion with your retarded Cain = Flashman copypasta.


>> No.27706727

And this makes Gearhearts choices when it looks like two loyalist titan legions are going to start shooting one another over a religious dispute even more dramatic. "Cancel target lock, all Invictus Engines cancel target lock, you may keep your shields lit but you must not fire upon the Orestan Engines." I will not be the cause of a Mechanicus civil war. I'd rather die, I'd rather be unplugged, I'd rather let the darkness have me.

>> No.27706734


I think its the height of arrogance to believe (being a psyker) that you can create an even a candle-light compared to the light of the Emperor's Astronomican

>> No.27706796

I honestly don't get why people think that, aside from fucknuts that didn't bother to read them.

The Flashman Files are the tales of a coward boasting about all the shit he got away with.

The Cain Archive is the confession of a soldier afflicted with false hero syndrome.
While it was fairly clear before, the confirmation occurs in Cain's last stand, where he tries to remember what Kolfax looks like, and feels like shit when he can't.

>> No.27707050

What's with all the feminist shit on /tg/ recently?

Every so often I see someone point out that women aren't very good warriors and then everyone acts all offended like they're a nazi or something. And then in stories when men are physically assaulted by women these same people view this as "just desserts" for whatever reason.

>> No.27707095


That would be a symptom of watching too much Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Xena for their own good.

>> No.27707111

>Every so often

there's your answer.
Every so often, somebody decides to be a fucking idiot.

>> No.27707154

I don't see how that's at all relevant to what's being said in this thread

>> No.27707162

But women are generally inferior to men physically. Why does this fact make you so upset?

>> No.27707203

As just one example.

The champion of that rival imperial guard unit thought it was inappropriate to participate in full contact competition with females. When the man was assaulted it was seen as completely justified. Why though?

>> No.27707268

except within the story it wasn't justified and cain had to mess with the guy to get him to drop it.

this type of argument doesn't need to be brought up in this thread, it's about ciaphus cain books, take it to /soc/

>> No.27707314

In the story it wasn't justified, but some users of this thread view the needless assault as justified.

>> No.27707372

The greatest bollocking of our time

>> No.27707389

Because it's completely irrelevant except when it's being used to shut down 'badass woman' character concepts.

>> No.27707398


Red headed steppe child

>> No.27707404

It's used to shut down those character concepts because of it's a universe that isn't campy it's merely feminist wankery.

>> No.27707412

Because he's an idiot who dissed a veteran guardsman solely because she happens to have vagina and got his just desserts for that.

"But she's a lady" isn't anything but a shitty excuse when you're dealing with someone known to be a freakin' combat veteran from a unit that go so deep into the thick of it that it had to be consolidated with another one afterwards to make up the losses.


Nope, they live underground because anything too long on the surface gets turned into a popsicle.

>> No.27707441

No, every male character is merely wanking to patriarchal exploitation and no one should be allowed to play them.

>> No.27707443

He didn't know that. Also, he's from a different culture, it's just desserts for him to be fucked up because of what he believes him? What if he's married and he feels uncomfortable sparring with females?

>Grrrrrrrrrl powrrrrrr

>> No.27707449

Do you even armed forces?

>> No.27707460

>Pointless comment because I can't justify my opinions

>> No.27707462

>characters with gender identity
>not playing hermaphroditically androgynous double-transgenderqueers

What is this, 2012?

>> No.27707469

womenz stronk

>> No.27707472

What's that have to do with anything? Just because it's a macho atmosphere doesn't mean that being uncivilized to your fellow ally is any more morally sound.

>> No.27707492

>Also, he's from a different culture, it's just desserts for him to be fucked up because of what he believes him?
Muh feelings is hardly an excuse.

>> No.27707505


>> No.27707515

A different culture doesn't excuse somebody being a fucking idiot.
Them turning down the competition because of whom they contain implies that they think they aren't worth fighting. Only a moron wouldn't be able to see how well that would be received.
Incidentally, demeaning half of a regiment because of their gender, ignoring their exemplary combat record, is hardly any more morally sound than ignoring muh culture.

and incidentally, it's never portrayed as grrl power. if anything, all accounts state that Magot is a psychopath that happens to be pointed in the right direction

Take your /pol/ goggles off.

>> No.27707536

>/pol/ goggles

Way to discredit your opinion bro.

>> No.27707563

Thanks for all that opinion.

>> No.27707565

Also I disagree with all your other points too, but you seem a little too biased to have an objective discussion with.

>> No.27707583

If you want to have the last word to soothe your cyber ego and leave with dignity, be my guest.
Just stop being a fucking moron in the future.

>> No.27707594

Then he should have tried explaining that. The whole subtext involved in the book was though that he was basically a pompous ass who went "Women can't fight!" directly into the face of the psycho lesbian who will cheerfully get into a fight with a mob of Ork Boyz. You can't really step on a bigger landmine. It's funny because Schadenfreude.

>> No.27707608

He was being a dumbass for underestimate his opponent for being female. Maybe him and everyone watching learned that underestimating your opponent is something that will get your ass handed to you. Better this learned in a competition than on the battlefield. This has nothing to do with feminism

>> No.27707637


Remember, it's an ork we're talking about.

>> No.27707653

I got you covered, /tg/!

>> No.27707704

mah nigga.

It's funny how most of the time Cain mentions him fucking anyone aside from Amberly, she always has a potshot at them.
Like the PDF sergeant, calling him and the Voidborn chick reckless, etc.
The only exception was with that governor's daughter, and even then she did at the start and only stopped when Cain started insulting her.

>> No.27707732


Is he going to get to duck out of it when some half-naked Slaaneshi tittymonster tries to tear him limb from limb?

No. Better he learn that now than in the field.

>> No.27707778


Inquisitors make the most terrifying girlfriends.

>> No.27707820

The Tallarns we acting like absolute pricks the entire time, when Cain and the 597 rescued the Tallarns from being ambushed in the spaceport, they basically said that they'd rather die than have the 597th land of a monastary vegtable garden, then they decide to get pissy when Cain cracks a joke.

Even Lord General Zyvan got pissed at them when they decided to torch a cultist ritual site without even bothering to gather evidence, because HURR EMPRA.

This wasn't some huge feminist thing, these guys were uptight pricks and goddamn morons.

>> No.27707885

>s-s-sir, there are women on the enemy side!
>stay calm, guardsman, the Catachan's will sort it out while we deal with the seemly business of the Emperor
>but sir, their transport was delayed!
>Emperor preserve us... Guardsman, deploy our Spaghetti protection armaments, then let us cower in our treehouse until it's all over. Let us pray that their ankles are not showing.

>> No.27707901


Do we know what ended up happening to any of those other women after the close of Cain's accounts?

>> No.27707927


Fucking Tallarns.

>> No.27708032 [DELETED] 


>> No.27708072

I like how extremely obvious trolls can be on /tg/ without being discovered.

>> No.27708138


Poe's Law, basically, there are completely sincere people in our hobby who are that bad.

>> No.27708233

preety much >>27708138
We've all seen the That Guy Tales of Horror.
It's depressingly easy for a genuine idiot to be like this.

>> No.27708307

They're from Székesfehérvár, you see.

>> No.27708382

It doesn't matter how rude, smug or dickish he may or may not be it's still probably better than getting shot with a bolt pistol. In some grimderp interpretations that would be what you'd get for less.

>> No.27708473

This should be the new standard for explaining pronounciation.

>sfYourse judge

>> No.27708479


And there's a lot of /pol/ crossover, because it's easy to be racist when you (1) don't go outside and meet people different from yourself and (2) are unsuccessful and thus blame the other.

Although everyone on /pol/ pretends to be a small-business owner.

>> No.27708520

Hey, drawing Tiny Tina sucking off futa Rainbow Dash for commissions is a real business.

>> No.27708704

I always like how the book covers portray Cain as being this beefy action hero with a bolt pistol that he never actually uses. I like to think that it's an intentional decision on the part of the illustrator and author (I believe Cain makes a reference to these sorts of images in one of the books).

>> No.27708810


Cain is actually described as tall and burly looking by himself in the books.

>> No.27708841

Yeah, that's the joke.

In The Greater Good, Amberly mentions that a Matser Crafted bolt pistol Cain found from the body of an implanted techpriest was used in all the propaganda posters, and he later gave it to her.
hat being said, he genuinely is as physically formidable as he seems.

>> No.27708935

Gearheart is a great character. Dig up the Titan comics if you can, it covers his early career.

>> No.27709438

Cain was a manipulative dick he was excellent as a Commissar because of this

And it wasn't just sports it was a combat skills competition which included melee combat, the guy who walked into Cain's troops area was the CQC champion of the regiment who refused to parrticipate and the one who attacked him was the champ from Cain's regiment

>> No.27710020

Bad authors love to strawman and make fun of people who share sociopolitical positions they disagree with.

People who write books based on a tabletop setting tend to not be excellent authors.

>> No.27710692

People who spend all their spare time on the Internet tend to make unneccesarily generalizations when they disagree with other people on the Internet.

People who spend all their free time on the Internet usually aren't great conversationalists.

>> No.27710728

God, modern television is fucking garbage.

>> No.27710783

Ok, but he's actually right though.

>> No.27710824

There's also the Mechanicum girl during the Ork invasion, who happened to have a variety of augments including a prehensile mechanical tail. Amberley doesn't have much to say about her but, given the tone in the footnotes, she's clearly oozing jealousy.

Only one that gets mentioned later is the Mechanicum girl, who ends up going full Arch -Techpriest by the time of Cain's Last Stand.

>> No.27710879

>Part of an unquestionably brave and hardassed military society
>Refuse to fight women because your cultural norms make it unacceptable to fight women, unlike these degenerate savages who conscript them to fight orcs
>A hideous musclebound woman bushwhacks you in the mess because she finds your cultural stigma against hitting women offensive
>You are honorbound not to fight back, so you get the shit beaten out of you
>Your officers file a formal complaint instead of conducting a revenge killing

If this story were being told from the opposite perspective, this Tallarn would be a fucking hero and people would sing his praises.

>> No.27710917


The inclusion of an almost literal Baldric makes him, at worst, a mix of Blackadder and Flashman. I seem to recall Jurgen saying something that was very nearly "I have a clever plan" in one of the earlier Cain stories.

>> No.27711089

He'd probably be remembered as a condescending arsehole even from that perspectice.

>> No.27711512


Magot is a tiny, vicious redhead, and he did fight back. She just punched him first.

>> No.27711650

What part of 'they were saved in an ambush, and said they'd rather die than have the 597th land in a vegtable garden' don't you understand?

Seriously, it wasn't a single issue, they were colossal dickbags the entire fucking novel, so stop turning this into some huge anti-feminist movement.

Christ, it's like reading a youtube comments section.

>> No.27711657

yeah, if you outright lie, anyone can be seen as a hero.


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