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27261370 No.27261370 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

d% is in infinitely superior to d20 and/or d6.

Prove me wrong, /tg/.

>> No.27261382


>> No.27261384

>Prove me wrong, /tg/.
Why? Is there any reward for that, or something?

>> No.27261385

d% is only one percent.

D20 is 20


D20 is god

>> No.27261397


You get the satisfaction of a job well done, and the knowledge that through your typing, you actually permanently altered the course of another's mind.

And/or cake.

>> No.27261405

Naaaaaaaah. Thanks OP, but that's not enough for me to move that two brain cells of mine.

>> No.27261408

It is usually used for % based roll under systems that I personally dislike.

>> No.27261416

>d20 is god

What's a god to a non-believer?

Atheists d9001, Christians d20

>> No.27261430


But Classic Marvel Forever is forever.

>> No.27261495

I will personally post Classic Marvel Forever in a different thread, and let you know when it 404s. As in, doesn't last forever.

>> No.27261534


Just gonna bump it all day.

>> No.27261570
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>What's a god to a non-believer?

I'm listening to this song right now

>> No.27261584

>no shining dodecahedrons

>> No.27261626


Woah dude

Thanks for the nostalgia

>> No.27261633


Fucking dozenal supremacists. Go back to /math/

>> No.27261649

I was talking to my aspie dad [citation needed] and he said that that style of dice is not as 'random'. a higher quality dice with fewer faces is better. If you want to use %. dont go with a d100 use 2d10.

>> No.27261666


W-what? 2d10 only gets you 1-20, I need 1-100.

Go to /math/ for the first time.

>> No.27261686

> dodecahedron
Only useful as a perpetual motion machine. Shit as dice. It's like a d20 that never graduated college.

>> No.27261689

It's shit because of bonus inflation. The bigger the die, the more bonuses you need to overcome chance. Even d20 systems aren't immune to this, since a +4 modifier in an ability score is considered exceptional when in practice you can still fail at simple tasks. Using a d100 for everything means you won't give a shit about every little +1 that comes your way, so things that should make a noticeable difference (such as a level of training, an appropriate tool, a momentary tactical advantage, etc.) end up being +5 or more, which is close enough to using a d20 in the first place.

>> No.27261691
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>> No.27261697

Are you trying to trick us, Satan?

>> No.27261731
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That is not dead which can eternal lie,
and with strange aeons even death may die!
To bring down our masters on an icy night,
And to claim the power when the stars are right . . .
Derleth! Bloch! Team Eibon!
Stand fast to resist our rage . . .
Or flee to the safety of a new dark age!

>> No.27261754

You're 10 years old. You're our last hope. Armed with a Shining Dodecahedron and the elder incantations to make it work, you capture the monsters and train them to use their power . . . But not for evil. For sport.

>> No.27261771
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>> No.27261774
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>mfw cthulhu has a receding hairline

>> No.27261853

Okay, so a +1 for d20 is just +5 for d100. Make all the conversions and it's 100% equal. Now, you have numbers that are more particular, you can be closer to passing/failing, you can roll incredible 100s and extremely rare 1s. Now heroes of yore don't drop their swords 5% of the time. In addition, you can adjust on a smaller scale. If something is jut a little more than a d20 +1 sword, make it +6 instead of +5, or +4 if it's not quite that strong. The level of tweaking makes it superior.

>> No.27261887
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1/10 * 1/10 = 1/100 you fucking dumbass

>> No.27261998

They're talking about the physical die. A shitty d100 (and all d100s are shitty) is worse than two high-quality d10s rolled as a d100.

>> No.27262023

You moron, it gets you 2-20.

>> No.27262066

OH NO IT DOESNT. d10 x d10 leaves out all prime numbers.

There is NO FUCKING REASON to have any rules with that level of granularity.

>> No.27262081

>OH NO IT DOESNT. d10 x d10 leaves out all prime numbers.


>> No.27262095

Well, he has a point.

How would you get a 3 with a d10*d10?

>> No.27262111

you cannot produce prime numbers by multiplying the result of 2 numbers. So, rolling 2 d10's and using the product of their result instead of using a proper d100 or using a decimal set of 2 d10s is NOT the same.

>> No.27262117


I can roll a 2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19, 23, 29, 31, 37, 41, 43, 47, 53, 59, 61, 67, 71, 73, 79, 83, 89, AND a 97 with a 2d10 setup

you don't multiply them geniuses.

>> No.27262121


>> No.27262133

using 1d10x1d10 you cannot produce TWENTY FIVE numbers between 1 and 100:
>2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19, 23, 29, 31, 37, 41, 43, 47, 53, 59, 61, 67, 71, 73, 79, 83, 89, 97

>> No.27262140

then why did you say 1d10 x 1d10 fuckass?

>> No.27262150

Wat... you don't even need math for 2d10. One is the 10's place and one is the 1's place with 00, 0 being 100.

That's not math... that's counting.

That's right capatcha... 68945295 7

>> No.27262151


that wasn't me

>> No.27262172

then why did HE say it? Im still right. I get that you can use a decimal segregated roll of 2d10 to simulate 1d100 perfectly well, but what he suggested is just downright retarded.

>> No.27262180

Well, you can produce 2, 3, 5, and 7 if one of the d10s rolls a 1.


>> No.27262188
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I'm talking about the possibilities god damn it
what would be the point of multiplying holy shit

first d10 = 00
second d10 = 3

I never said 1d10*1d10
I said 1/10 * 1/10 = 1/100
That means that we still have 100 possibilities


>> No.27262192

>relying on a random number generator when it only becomes truly random at a sample size of greater than 90

Learn to math, pleb.

>> No.27262199


the guy said 1/10*1/10 = 1/100 for probability
NOT roll 2d10 and multiply them

>> No.27262207

Rolled 1

>still using physical dice

d7 5ever

>> No.27262208


Also there are other numbers < 100 that aren't a product of two numbers < 10. Like 91 (7 x 13) or 33 (3 x 11).

>> No.27262232


reading the sticky 5evr

>> No.27262238


>> No.27262240

I am now starting to think that /tg/ just doesn't read posts anymore and jump on any occasion to insult

>> No.27262257



kill me

>> No.27262258
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>> No.27262265

(where 00 & 0 is 100)

>> No.27262296

Ill admit I was genuinly at fault and misread his post. However, that does not change my stance the very idea of d100's in any form: there is no game in which there is a real reason for that level of granularity; every game Ive ever seen use d100's always adds bonuses in increments of 10, so using a d10 would be much easier and less taxing on some more retarded members of the playerbase.

>> No.27262308

By that logic, why not play a d1000 system? Or d10000000000? Nobody fucking cares about "tweaking" at the subatomic level.
About your sword example, the thought of upgrading from a +1 to a +2 is boring as shit; it's properties that make a weapon worth using. If a sword let you, say, target an additional creature with one attack once per encounter, and that complements your abilities better than one that's 5% more accurate but lets you deal extra necrotic damage and heal yourself on a hit once per day, you're not going to use the latter. If it's only 1% more accurate, as it would be in a d100 system, that's not even a hard choice, you'll sell it the first chance you get.

>> No.27262309

The dice alone does not determine the system; there have to be stats that go along with it, no?
If you're playing with a Dice + Modifier vs. DC system or a roll-under system, then you assign incremental value to your stats--13 is better than 12, or 55 is better than 51. Inverted, it's still the same: some numbers are better for your purposes than others.
Increments have to be rewarding, or else there's no point to them. Adjusting a value by 1 in a d20 system increases the chances of success by 5%; that's ~17% for a d6, while for a d100 it's 1%. 5%, as you can imagine, adds up much more quickly than 1%. 3 improvements with a d20 means an improvement of 15%, compared to 3%.
If you want, you can make these improvements more abundant with a d100 system, but then there's not really any point, is there? If each improvement adds 5 to your roll or your roll-under threshold, then congratulations, you've invented a d20 system that uses more dice.
Unless you're going for a system which is specifically designed to reward rapid but subtle improvement--like a system based on Mass Effect 1--you're better off going with a smaller dice (though too small and the differences become meaningless). d20 is sort of the sweet spot in general, because you have everything in multiples of 5. d6 works better for more compact systems.

>> No.27262311

What is reading comprehension? I was replying to an anon talking about multiplying the results of the two dice, not treating one as tens digit and the other as unit digit.

>> No.27262335

>there are games which use d100 dice pools

How mad does that make you?

>> No.27262337

I wouldn't know, I only use d100 for extremely unlucky shit

>aw shuck that's a 1
>what does that mean ?
>you caught the plague

>> No.27262339

What is that stuff next to your pen?

>> No.27262357

>d100 dice pools

what is the point anymore

some dice and a paper with electonic exercises in french

>> No.27262363


presumably holes in the desk's finish

>> No.27262376

My booty... it is bothered.

>> No.27262379
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why is everyone dumb today

>> No.27262391

We're all just pretending for shits and giggles

>> No.27262401

yeah that too

I should paint my desk or buy a bigger one

>> No.27262407


> 68945295 7
>typing in the address number for captcha
>letting Google and the government crowdsource the making of their total surveillance state

>> No.27262410


I certainly hope so. This thread was painful to read.

>> No.27262417

You are bad at math.

>> No.27262421

Let's just roll off to decide who's right

>> No.27262435


Fucking seriously?

>> No.27262455

You are bad at math.

>> No.27262492

wasn't there a fantasy pnp on d100 ?
something called anima beyond fantasy

was it good ? does someone have a pdf

>> No.27262513

I'll say d20 is better for the "poor college kid" reason: A d% costs more than a full d20 set (if you get the 100-sided die) and you'll likely need the other sets of dice you get when buying a seven die d20 set anyway.

Also, the only systems I can think of off the top of my head that uses d% are the Warhammer RPGs.

>> No.27262541

For ages now I've wanted to introduce as worldbuilding stuff in a fantasy setting the d36 as a standard.

Two d6's 0-5 in base six. The d6 is probably the most dicey and easy to produce shape of all the polyhedra, so it'll probably be reinvented, as a die, over and over again. But if you have a sequential set of numbers there, two are natural: 1-6 that we use, and 0-5 that a society counting in base six does.

Also note to all who like to parrot "ten finger ten fingers", base six fits the ten finger system perfectly because you can use one hand has one and the other as sixes. Similarly, the equivalent of "one hundredth" in base six is "one in thirty six". A pair of dice gives you that, a flat roll from 00-35 (or "55" in base six, thirty six is "100"). Three dice gives you 00-215.

>> No.27262546

>Now heroes of yore don't drop their swords 5% of the time.
If you were using critical fumbles, I think I found your problem.

>> No.27262566

>ten finger ten fingers

as an informatician you learn no to care anymore about base ten.

also you idea sounds cool

>> No.27262583

>as an informatician you learn no to care anymore about base ten.

"I learnt not to care"
Probably makes sense anymore

>> No.27262592


holy shit I'm tired

but you get what I'm saying

>> No.27262728

Or you just buy two d10s like a normal human being.

>> No.27262970

>~28.6 standard deviation

no thanks

>> No.27263515 [SPOILER] 
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I actually prefer dF

>> No.27263725

Why base-sex? I've always been a proponent of the Dozenal counting system myself, it divides nicer and is an easier transition from Decimal. Then you could do it with a d12 anyway.

>> No.27263779

that should read base-six.

>> No.27263828
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>> No.27263917

>Prove me wrong, /tg/.

>> No.27263921
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>> No.27263929

THIS IS /tg/!

>> No.27263941


>> No.27264050

d6 has 6 options d100 has 100 options. That means that d100 can be about 70% more acurate, upon the chance you want for something to happen, which means d100 is only about 70% better.

>> No.27264088

>anima beyond fantasy good ?
Best thing about it is your elation when you read the author´s opinion about his opus magnus.
He thought it to be perfect in its first iteration, all the while forgetting to include a handful of important skills(don´t remember which ones/don´t want to remember), but put in completely nonsensical "style" skill .

>> No.27264141

>once per encounter
>necrotic damage
Have you even played anything other than 4e?

>> No.27264205

Its good, people tend to bitch a lot about it though. I think the pdf is on/rs/

>> No.27264219
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This thread is horrifying

Intentionally or not, I was trolled good

>> No.27264286

It's a pretty cool system.
Too bad it'll never take off.

>> No.27264290

hmm, I wonder what the most complex dice scheme could be

Perhaps a d4 to determine if you are in C R Z or Binary

and then computations within it?

>> No.27264323 [DELETED] 


Roll 1d6.
Roll that many d6's.
Roll a dice with THAT many sides.

Do this for EVERY ROLL.

>> No.27264359

Roll Xd6, where X is the result of the previous roll.
Things would get crazy, and fast.

>> No.27264384

that might be the busiest roll scheme, but it's fundamentally simple

I'm looking for a roll scheme that you'd need a degree in math to understand

>> No.27264443

What if you just gave the player a range of numbers and they had to figure the rest?

>35-187? Uh, let's see, that's a d12 and, uh...

>> No.27264477

Am I the only one who uses an online random number generator?

>> No.27264490

That ruins the fun.

>> No.27264590

At least you can read. I never learned how.

>> No.27264784

Yes, I have, but 4E was more relevant to the counter-argument I was making. I'm sorry I made you cry by reminding you that 4E exists. I'll add a trigger warning next time.

>> No.27265120

This thread is dumb and you should all feel bad. Where dem mods at.

>> No.27265525

yeah, this is pretty much how it is in my group. besides, the d percentile are just bulky monstrosities

>> No.27267280
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D2 is infinity superior. You don't even need rules for talking, you just attack stuff.

Want to hit a goblin? Flip a coin. Rob a bank? Flip a coin.

[email protected] who dresses up like faggots and pretends to be a character

>> No.27267891

Man, I've never witnessed a spontaneous mathematician slap fight before... Stay classy /tg/

>> No.27268368

The d100 is objectively better than a d20. A d100 can be used to perfectly simulate a d20, but the reverse isn't true. As such a d100 is a d20 with extra functionality.

>> No.27268442

You can't find that in good games.

Which is why you're going to go download FATAL.

I'd also suggest Hybrid, but that doesn't require a math degree, just some loose screws.

>> No.27268470

>Calling for mods in a thread about dice
I barely even know you anymore, anon.

Remember when we used to fucking love dice?

>> No.27268655

Don't be fooled. Everyone in this thread is far too dumb to call themselves a mathematician

>> No.27268657

There's the Legends of the Wulin / Weapons of the Gods system. You need to use a modified binomial distribution to model it.

>> No.27268983

This thread shows that we need a standardised notation for dice. The only thing that's generally agreed upon is that XdY means rolling X number of dY. We need notation for:

>X dY are rolled and added together
>X dY are rolled and the values are multiplied by Z
>X dY are rolled ans values above a certain number are counted
>Multiple small dice are used to model a larger dice
>Multiple dice are rolled are multiplied together
>X dY are rolled and sets are counted.

>> No.27272936

Let's see, how about...

>X dY are rolled and added together
XdY should still be fine

>X dY are rolled and the values are multiplied by Z
XdY * Z or XdY x Z

>X dY are rolled ans values above a certain number are counted
XdYsZ, "success Z" where Z is the lowest number that counts as success. E.g. 8d10s7. This draws inspiration from...

>X dY are rolled and the top Z are added together
XdYkZ or XkZ for short (I believe this is already used in certain systems)

>Multiple small dice are used to model a larger dice
Xd(Y+Z) or Xd(Y,Z) or something? e.g. 1d(10,10)

>Multiple dice are rolled are multiplied together
Not sure, maybe X*dY or XxdY

>X dY are rolled and sets are counted
No idea

>> No.27273052
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>> No.27273790

>infinitely superior
since neither is generating an infinite number, surely by definition it has to be quantively superior?

For example, a D100 has to be roughly 80% better/worse than a D20?

>> No.27273967

Saying it's infinitely true would be that it was true in every possible case. A tautology.

He's just saying it's "true by (my) definition".

Also those dice suck. Won't stop rolling and are difficult to read. They also break when they fall to the floor. It's also mathematically impossible to construct a fair d100 (this is why we only have so many types of classical dice: d4, d6, d10, d12, d20: The platonic elements as proven by Euclid.

>> No.27274218

I needed this thread oh-so-badly. I suck at math so I applaud all your hard efforts on behalf of us, the dumbasses of the world. I can follow basic math but you fellers lost me at hello. Bell curve/3d6 all the way, har har har.

>> No.27274275

Can someone translate this for me?

>> No.27274329

I do that to myself and it is an endless path. Do not go down that path, young Jedi!*1000

>> No.27274362

Holy shit, that gif is amazong.

>> No.27274744

He wants to define a number system based on a 6-number system just as the conventional decimal system with ten numbers.

The way this works: For each place value you raise the base (the value the number system is based on) to the next power.

For instance in the first place we take the zeroth power =1. In the first place we count 1s. In the 2nd place we take the 1st power, eg 10s. We count tens: 10,20, 30, 40.. In the 3rd place we count 10 to the power of 2, ie 100s. So we count 100, 200, 300.

So if you have 3612 in base 10
You would say

If you had the same number in base 6
It would be

So we represent it with 24420 (base 6).
This makes sense with dice based systems because it's easy to represent results or number of dice. Although this is ludicrously big. It was a bad example. I go to bed.

>> No.27277279

I think you mean "Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate".

>> No.27277682

how you would get 1-20 with a 2d10? you would get 2-10

>> No.27277708

wait 2-20

>> No.27277758

no game needs the granularity of a d100, and I'm not sure about the d20 either.

Anyway, it's better to have something with a nice curve to it, like 3d6 or a pool of d10s

>> No.27278120


This exactly. 2d6 is kind of the minimum

I tried a d100 system (AdEva) and it felt kind of meh. Character growth felt limp-dicked because it was ultra-low percentages. Doesn't help that the system assumes a REALLY high probability of failure by default, like 50% even if you're relatively optimized for a task at char gen

>> No.27278250

Wrong. They are all objectively inferior to my custom set system. I use a combination of custom made d3, d5, d17, and d -71 for our world that we're able to manipulate. We've made our own custom formal language that rivals others like algebra and trigonometry. Players must graph their work and then apply the appropriate mathematic formula to show all aspects of movement, among other actions. And I do require them to show their work. It takes a little time to learn, but it's a good system to weed out the filthy casuals that we wouldn't want to game with anyway.

>> No.27278468


I think it depends a lot on the style of game.

For example, you mentioned AdEva. It makes perfect sense to me why they would want to keep chances of success fairly low, and make bonuses incremental rather than huge, because every single fight is the players outnumbering the enemy by 3 to one, probably more.

If every player can be expected to succeed on most of their rolls, the battle is going to be hilariously one sided. In order to make the game work, the players need to individually suck but be strong as a team.

If 4 players making 4 attacks in a round only hit half the time, they still hurt the Angel twice as often as the Angel is capable of hurting them back.

>> No.27278620

Curved results aren't necessarily better. For one thing, sometimes a less consistent spread is better suited for the tone of the game. For example, if your game focuses heavily on magic, and magic is fluffed as something wild and unpredictable, a curved dice system is not what you want. You want a linear system with equal chance of any result.

Furthermore, 3d6 in particular is problematic for anything where players can use limited resources to gain bonuses to a roll, because how much those bonuses are worth will depend on how close you are to needing to hit the peak of the dice curve to succeed. Suppose you're playing a 3d6 roll-under system and you have an option that would give you a +1 bonus at some cost (taking an action to set up, perhaps, or a limited-use ability, or consumable item). If you're attempting a task where you'd need 10 or lower to succeed, and using that option would make it so you'd also succeed if you rolled a 11, that increases your chances of success by a whopping 12.5 percentage points, from 50% to 62.5%. However, suppose you're trying something you're not so great at, and you initially need a 6 or lower, the bonus making it so you'd need 7 or lower instead. That only changes your odds from 9.26% to 16.2%, just under 7 percentage points.

In other words, you get less out of a bonus when you really need it most.

Frankly, I really dislike 3d6 for this reason. If I want a curved probability spread, I'd take a dice pool over 3d6 any day.

>> No.27279080

Forgive me for asking, but what do you mean by dice pool?

>> No.27279202

You made the statement, the burden of proof is on you to prove yourself right.


>> No.27279425

Your stats determine how many dice you roll (ie, the size of your dice pool). Like in WoD or Shadowrun.

>> No.27279647
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Instead of saying "superior" I'd say "more accurate". For exemple, if you want to make a roll with 63% chances of success you could do it with a d100 but not with a d20, who could only simulate 60% or 65%. Same goes for the d6.

So I'd say it depend of the accuracy you want, because d20 are much more handy to throw/read than d100 and d6 are much more handy than d20.

Since they serve diferent purpose we can't put one above the other.

It's like men and women : despite men being more intelligent on average, we can't say that they are better than the women.

>> No.27280290

I was considering just that for my game. What is the target roll in those games?

>> No.27280778


In the type of number system we use, 10 is TEN. I will capitalise words when I mean quantities. TEN is always ten, five plus five. 10 is a representation that means different things in different bases.

A number can be broken down like this:
10x 3
10x10x 2
10x10x10x 1

When you add numbers to the left side of the number, they're always a number that is that number times 10x enough times. 10 to the power.

The trick is, 10 is not like 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or another of the numerals. It can be any number. It just happens to be TEN in the system we use.

What is 10 is TWO? Then we have binary.

0 is still ZERO, 1 is still ONE.
But 10 is TWO.
Then obviously 11, which is 10 + 1 has to be THREE. It's the next number after 10.
But hey, you say, what about 2, 3, 4? Well in binary you don't use them. You just use 1s and 0s. When you add 1 to 11, you carry the 1 twice, and get 100, FOUR. 100 + 1 is 101, of course. 10 x 10 + 1, which is TWO times TWO plus ONE, FIVE. 110? SIX. 111: SEVEN. You get the gist.

Hexadecimal is also a base you might have heard of, except in this case 10 is SIXTEEN. so you go 1, 2, 3... 8, 9 and.. Uh? Well, just add more numerals: A, B, C, D, E, F. A is TEN. C is TWELVE. F is FIFTEEN.

10 is SIXTEEN, 11 is 10 plus 1, SEVENTEEN, 12 is 10 + 2, EIGHTEEN.

100 is 10 x 10, of course. SIXTEEN times SIXTEEN, which is TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY SIX, or 256 in base TEN. I bet you've heard about that number before. Or it's older brother, FF, 255 in base TEN.

You can do this kind of thing with any number. TWELVE is very popular, because TWELVE is much better at all things than TEN, because you can divide it by more factors. Bases TWO and SIXTEEN are important in computers because they are based around BITS, which are just signals that are turned on (1) or off (0), and hexadecimal is straightforward to read and has a straightforward way to translate into binary. You can transform a binary into hexadecimal or vice versa by just replacing sequences.

>> No.27280888


What does this have to do with base SIX?

A die has SIX sides, and if you mark them ZERO to FIVE, you have basically the building blocks of the equivalent of dTENs in regards to d%. In this case, 100 is THIRTY SIX, SIX time SIX, though.

You have a ONES die and a SIXES die, just like with d% you have a ONES die and a TENS die. You roll them, add up the numbers (the SIXES die is of course a multiple of SIX), and you have a straight distribution of numbers from ZERO to THIRTY FIVE. Or ONE to THIRTY SIX, depending on what 00 is for you.

What about hands?

Well people often say that we use base ten because we have ten fingers, which is just argh. Yeah, maybe, BUT humanity has over time used a plethora of systems. Just in the West we still have traces of base TWELVE (the clock, inches to a feet, all of those things) and base TWENTY (French numbers, check them out), even the base SIXTY that babylonians used (the clock again. THREE HUNDRED AND SIXTY is a very nice number, too).

In base TWELVE you can still count with your fingers. Each hand has four fingers with three finger joints (and the thumb), so you can count the joints with the thumb. In base six, however, using both hands you can count to THIRTY FIVE just by counting to FIVE on each hand - one of the hands is the SIXES hand.

>> No.27281012
File: 387 KB, 844x919, two-face.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

You thought d% could be a decent system, in an indecent game! But you were wrong. Our games are cruel, and the only morality in a cruel game is chance. Unbiased, unprejudiced... fair. Your character's got the same chance as mine. Fifty-fifty.

>> No.27283549

fatal need only multiplication, plus, minus, div and %

on sword path glory, I think that to use some rule you need to know how to how to get as some example something that have 26% of happening and another with 37% of happening, and find how likely the first is to happen if compared with the second

>> No.27283569

D2's, I feel, rely to heavily on modifiers to be simulationist

>> No.27286080
File: 154 KB, 632x411, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>pic very related

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