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[ERROR] No.27219058 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

What happens if a Grey Knight kills Lucius?

>> No.27219079

It doesn't happen.

>> No.27219105

what happens if lucius kills himself

>> No.27219111

They should just use a Culexus. Problem solved.

Though that would require the Imperium actually knowing how his immortality works, which is unlikely

I wonder what happens when a non-human kills him. Like and Ork. Or a Necron.

>> No.27219113

The Purity of the Emperor creates a clone of the Grey Knight that gets possessed.

>> No.27219149

>>27219111
An Ork would get happy and turn into Lucius.

Necrons and all their works are immune to the Warp and resistant to sorcery. Nothing happens.

>> No.27219175

>Lucius is hacking his way through pathetic Guardsmen
>Killed by artillery bombardment
>To this day, nobody knows who killed him
>Not even the Gods

>> No.27219185

If he can't reincarnate through his armor, Slaanesh just revives him whole cloth in the warp... in a horrific birthing experience.

>> No.27219213

>>27219149
>Necrons and all their works are immune to the Warp and resistant to sorcery.

>> No.27219225

>>27219213
And also.

>> No.27219228

>>27219213
I don't see anything that disapproves my claim.

>> No.27219251

>>27219225
Still I see nothing.

>> No.27219263

>>27219175
The guardsman who fired the barrage would turn into Lucius.
It's not like artillery appears from nowhere. You have to fire it.

>> No.27219275

look, lucius's whole immortality thing happens soley because slanesh thinks its funny. So the answer to any what if "X" kills lucius is "whatever Slaneesh feals like doing." Well whatever Slaneesh feals like doing after he is done fucking the 278 holes on a 235 holed pleasure deamon.

>> No.27219280

>>27219263
The Guardsmen needs to feel pride and happiness in the killing of Lucius or else nothing will happen.

>> No.27219283

>>27219185
In other words he's a bigger failure than Abaddon

he doesn't win threw skill and being perfect he wins by cheating,

we really do need a better champion for Slaanesh he's really shitty compare to FB's

>> No.27219290

>>27219263
If the guardsman knew he killed him.

>> No.27219293

If anyone who take pleasure in killing him turns into him, why don't they just deploy a hundred or so servitors and taratula turrets against him?

>> No.27219319

>>27219263
He'd never know what he did, though, and who he killed, at least for until the battle's over and even then his CO is probably going to take credit for it.

He might even feel shame at the act. It mentions that the blast hit him when Lucius was in a group of Guardsmen hackin' and slashin', which probably means the artillery missed and hit his own allies.

Of course, chances are he's just the guy pressing a button at a console 4 miles away, so meh.

>> No.27219329

>>27219293
The guy that deployed them would turn.

>> No.27219338

What if a Gretchin kills Lucius, by some lucky chance?

Lucius trapped in a Gretchin's body

Or if he gets killed by a shock attack gun, does the Snotling get the kill, or does the shooter get it?

>> No.27219358

What if Kharne killed Lucius?

>> No.27219364

>>27219338
he doesnt get traped the new body, the new body becomes lucius's body, and the face of the new "host" joines the miriad of screaming faces on lucius's armor.

>> No.27219373

>>27219275
And yet people will always try to rules-lawyer around it, for such is all they know.

>> No.27219385

>>27219364
So would he then be a really short Lucius?

>> No.27219388

What happens if a rock just fell on him?

>> No.27219406

>>27219385
no, it warps and twists untill it IS lucius's body, exactly, except with the new face on the armor.

>> No.27219414

>>27219358
Nothing happens.

Slaanesh wouldn't dare invoke Khorne's wrath. Stealing a prized champion in such cowardly way would be cause Slaanesh to be in the receiving end of a brutal beating.

>> No.27219422

>>27219388
then you punch the DM in the mouth.

>> No.27219463

>>27219283
>we really do need a better champion for Slaanesh he's really shitty compare to FB's

>> No.27219483

>>27219406
Well thats dull, I was laughing at the image of a tiny, green tinted Lucius

>> No.27219506

>>27219463
A MORTAL champion of Slaanesh.

Daemon Prince are all useless.

>> No.27219959

>>27219506
>Doomrider
>Useless

If he made Bikers troops, he'd be the best special character in CSM.

If he was a character that CSM's could take though. Dammit GW...

>> No.27220077

>>27219414
Reminder that before Khaine manned up and faced Slaanesh, the latter was arguably as powerful as his three kin combined and rightly feared by them.

>> No.27220108

>>27219388
It was obviously pushed by Slaanesh because Lucius failed him.

>> No.27220144

>>27220077
That was back when Slaanesh was powered by a fully armed and operation Eldar Empire.

He's the weakest on the block these days. He burned up most of his fuel.

>> No.27220164

>>27220077
Slaanesh?

Approaching the power of any of his brothers?

Laughable.

>> No.27220170

>>27219251
>bring up FFG
>everything goes to shits

>> No.27220178

>>27219213
so the necros were buried by the physical dirth of the planet, not by warp magic.

>> No.27220189

>>27220144
That and Khorne also slapped him a new one.

>> No.27220203

>>27220170
Canon politics are irrelevant.

Only the supremacy of the Necrons is the imperative

>> No.27220253

All these 'what if X kills Lucius' threads don't even take into account the first time he died. In Angel Exterminatus, he gets taken down in close combat by a Raven Guard, who, just before the final blow, tells him that this was just duty - he was the most skilled warrior, and needed to die first - and that he (the Raven Guard) takes no pleasure in it at all.

Lucius still revives, in his own body. The Raven Guard gets away, and Lucius still gets up again, musing that 'perhaps death doesn't want him yet'.

So there is no way to kill Lucius permanently. He's a slightly different variant of Perpetual now, albeit one caused by Slaanesh rather than super-shamen-soul-Voltron-ism, or whatever.

>> No.27220282

>>27219058

the grey knight kills himself. Ending the cycle.

Or Slaanesh just makes a new body for Lucius after this and sends him on his marry way to further entertain She who Thirsts.

>> No.27220284

>>27220253
There is a way.

You got to destroy his soul. Same way the Emperor did with Horus.

>> No.27220304

>>27220253

This.

>> No.27220315

What happens if Lucius kills himself?

>> No.27220334

>>27220144
>>27220164
According to the Tome of Excess, Slaanesh is steadily gaining in power. Apparently, the other gods fear that they might be complicit in the rising star of their young sibling.

>> No.27220342

>>27220315
Lucius Squared.

>> No.27220346

>>27220253
Wasn't it Fabius who brought him back from the brink of death?

>> No.27220442

>>27220334
That's old news. We knew that already. Like a parasite, Slaanesh is slowly feeding on the excesses of his fellow gods and is gaining power over them.

However, he is still the weakest of the Chaos Gods and his actual power is but a fraction to the power of his elder brothers.

>> No.27220451

So clearly we need to kill Slaanesh first, THEN kill Lucius. Gentlemen, I propose we take a Retribution class Battleship, and have Mars completely refit it for this singular purpose, then crew it with Grey Knights and Blanks and go flying into the warp.

>> No.27220466

>>27220284
>>27220304

Okay, point taken, but how many ways are there to do that in the 40K universe?

>Be the Emperor
>Stab Lucius with the Fulgurite
>Be a Chaos God (maybe, depends on whether 'absorbing' the soul counts as destroying it)
>help me out here, I'm running out of ideas

Either way, you have to be pretty high-powered, or have a really high-powered artefact to be able to pull it off. It's not as simple as just dropping an Exterminatus on the problem.

>> No.27220510

Now don't take this as baiting?
But who is this guy, I thought I knew things about 40k chaos lore but it looks like I don't even know who this champion of slaanesh is and I think slaanesh is really neat.

>> No.27220591

>>27220510
Emperor's Children character introduced in the second 3rd edition Codex: Chaos Space Marines (pictured). He also appears in the Horus Heresy novels, though there he's just a Captain rather than a Lord Commander.

>> No.27220613

>>27220591
>3rd edition Codex: Chaos Space Marines (pictured)
Technically, that was the 3.5 Codex: CSM. At that point, the rules had been 'updated' with the Trial Assault Rules, and Trial Vehicle Rules.

>> No.27220638

>>27220591
Oh, so he is just a slaaneshi khornate?

That's a bit ... wait what.

>> No.27220656

>>27219251
So Necrons are static and unchanging....

Sounds like Nurgle.

>> No.27220698

>>27220656
Necrons are pure stasis.

No decay, rot, or disease of Nurgle can touch them. Also they are beyond death.

They are nothing to Nurgle except a loathsome foe.

>> No.27220700

>>27220613
Hence "second" 3rd edition codex.

People seem to resent him for replacing Doomrider, which is funny since the latter only gets any attention at all due to memes that came along much, much later.

>> No.27220747

>>27220698
Nurgle also represents Stagnation, which is why he and Tzeentch don't get along.

Necrons are stagnant as a race.

>> No.27220848

>>27220638
Many followers of Slaanesh prize martial skill. I think the distinction is best summed up in this bit from the same codex:

>The antithesis of Khorne is Slaanesh. The Blood God rails against his rival’s decadence and love of luxury. Where a follower of Khorne conquers through the application of crude, brutal force, a champion of Slaanesh delights in each delicate stroke of the blade, only releasing his victims from his attentions when they are wasted and used.

Look at this Phil Kelly creation from WD275(US) if you want to see a real Slaaneshi Khornate.

>> No.27220931

>>27220848

Oh, oh okay. I thought that khorne was honorable and martial but who the fuck am I to think that the lore would be steady with all the recent changes.

>turned into a Minotaur because of slaanesh
Sweet.

>> No.27220995

>>27220747
It's more about accepting the inevitable and not fighting the status quo, rather than desiring change and having the will to fight back. Nurgle is about the inevitability of death and the despair mortals feel about it, while Tzeentch caters to those go-getters who desire to change the world and roll against the odds.

Mere stagnation doesn't really do anything to Nurgle if there's no one suffering from it. And as a race of soulless automatons, Necrons aren't having much of dem feels, man.

>> No.27221028

>>27220931
Khorne is a patron of all warriors, honorable and savage.

This shows when the Bloodthirsters and Skulltaker stop and salute their challengers before savagely murdering them.

>> No.27221045

>>27220995
>inevitibility of death and the despair mortals feel about it

You mean like the citizens of the Imperium feel everytime someone shows up to kill them?

I'm not saying Necrons are devoted to Nurgle, just more closely aligned to him. Afterall they're not making new weapons, adopting new tactics or even really changing anything (they just want their planets back). That sounds pretty stagnant and in line with Nurgle, souls or not.

On that note Flayed Ones = Khorne's favorites?

>> No.27221070

>>27219422
Im gunna punch you in the mouth. DM in 40k my fist.

>> No.27221095

>>27220931
The modern Khorne is honourable in a Lovecraftian sense.

Like demons that first smash through the Space Marines, then the Imperial Guard, then the PDF, then whatever militia remains, then the male civilians, after that the women and elderly, and finally they'd murder all children.

Honour yes. Human honour? No.

>> No.27221105

>>27221045
>I'm not saying Necrons are devoted to Nurgle, just more closely aligned to him. Afterall they're not making new weapons, adopting new tactics or even really changing anything (they just want their planets back). That sounds pretty stagnant and in line with Nurgle, souls or not.

They are inventing new technology, making new tactics, and experiencing new forms of madness and lunacy with each passing decade. Not so stagnant.

>> No.27221134

>>27221045
They did make those pylons on Cadia and other anti-warp weapons, like null field matrices. And the phaerons are all about scheming and political power play. Hell, they even escaped their mortal coils into machine bodies. Thousand Sons, anyone?

>> No.27221135

Here's something fun: Vaust the Bull appeared again in a short bit of Lucius fluff on the old GW website. I'd been trying to remember where I'd read it for ages and only just dug it up. It's also the source for the "Brothers! Welcome to the feast!" quote on Lucy's page in the current codex.

http://web.archive.org/web/20060116080126/http://uk.games-workshop.com/chaosspacemarines/lucius/

>"My brothers! Welcome to the feast!" screamed Lucius the Eternal as more silver-armoured Space Marines piled forward into the breach. His sickle-sabre and barbed whip lashed out all around him, arcs of ruby-red blood decorating the gnarled faces moaning and writhing within his baroque armour. A buzzing chainsword snuck beneath his guard, shrieking as it bit into Lucius's shin. His sabre swept down with blurring speed, and the attacking Space Marine fell apart, a look of surprise etched on his face. The shadows cast by the fortress walls coiled and writhed around Lucius as he dodged and parried the blows of his enemies. The gaping hole in the fortifications was crammed with the bodies of the dead, blood trickling from split ceramite, skulls laid open to the caustic air. Noise Marines raced along the battlements toward the breach.

>Beside him in the courtyard his acolytes were cutting down those Space Marines that had avoided Lucius's flashing sickles. A bull-headed giant in Terminator armour struck out again and again with a pair of heavy maces, its bellows of rage deafening even over the roar of battle. A reed-thin witch-daemon, her eyes sewn shut, gifted her attackers with delicate wounds that left them paralysed, a statuary of armoured figures frozen in agony around her robed form.

>> No.27221145

>>27221135
>Lucius's warped features contorted into a hideous grin as the attackers storming the breach fell back and regrouped around their sacred standard. Bolter shells impacted hard against Lucius's living armour, and he howled in delight at the delicious agonies coursing through his veins.

>"Are none of you worthy of your reputation?" laughed Lucius, crouching on a mound of shattered bodies. A missile streaked past his head. "Come now, surely one of you can do better than that?" mocked the dark figure, idly defiling one of the fallen and licking the blood from his long fingers. With a deafening roar, the Space Marines charged, bolters chattering. The favoured of Slaanesh met the charge head on, his retinue beside him. The ululating scream emanating from Lucius's throat pierced the skein of reality for a split second, and his enemy's charge faltered. His weapons flashed and leapt faster than the eye could follow, slicing through the stunned Space Marines. In less than a minute, he held their standard aloft in his malformed hands. It seemed to writhe for a second before bursting into flame, consumed by chaotic energies. The Noise Marines poured from the breach into the ranks of the foe, and the slaughter began in earnest.

>> No.27221148

>>27221105
And about the Flayed Ones...

No, they are not Khornate. They act under the will (or curse) of another God. They are consumed by the hunger and madness of the Flayer. A thirst for the pleasures of the flesh that is forever denied for them and hunger to consume it.

They don't kill for the sake of killing itself.

>> No.27221170

>>27221105
When are they making new technology? They BROKE science millions of years ago.

>>27221134
That technology dates back to the Necrotyr days though.

>> No.27221188

>>27221148
But Khorne cares not for why the blood flows, just that it does, hence why I mentioned them being his favorite kind of Necrons, for they make the blood flow.

>> No.27221218

>>27221170
>They BROKE science millions of years ago.

Nope. There is always things to research. Crypteks are still inventing new stuff and researching.

>> No.27221232

>>27221188
Khorne doesn't care WHERE the blow flows from.

BUT he cares about the how and why.

>> No.27221244

>>27221232
blood*

>> No.27221273

>>27220931
Lucius cannot be called honorable, but in the Horus Heresy books he strives for perfection in combat. All chaos space marines are martial.

>> No.27221302

>>27221273
Too bad he was unable to defend against the power of FIST.

>> No.27221335

>>27220747

You're misinterpreting stuff.

Stagnation means shit's not happening, but it also means foetid, and decaying/breaking down. A 'stagnant' pond is a pond riddled with bacteria and noisome low life. That's the kind of stagnant Nergal is.

Nergal doesn't represent the breaking down, or stopping of something, but the renewal and rebirth of things. Tzeentch is transcendance and evolution, but Nergal is an unbreakable circle of life.

>> No.27221363

>>27221302
Pretty sure "cheap" shots like that wasnt in his compat repetoire back then.

>> No.27221369

>>27221335
Exactly.

The Necrons are almost Tzeentchian in their unchanging nature. I mean, what's the most chaotic thing in a chaotic universe? Something that doesn't change.

>> No.27221404

>>27221170
>That technology dates back to the Necrotyr days though.

[citation needed]

>> No.27221437

>>27221369

Actually I'd somewhat disagree. Unchanging makes them between the gods. I mean, I think I get what you're going for; chaos in a universe of chaos is normality, so chaos is its own bane, but I think the opposite of that is a paradox and not true.

The truth is every faction and person has the it within them to dedicate to any god.

>> No.27221460

>>27221369
>the most chaotic thing in a chaotic universe? Something that doesn't change
>"In a mad world, only the mad are sane."

>> No.27221475

Necrons are SCIENCE! incarnate. They may have no souls, but they are immune to dangers of the warp.

>> No.27221485

>>27219175
>Lucius gets killed by a gun-servitor

What now?

>> No.27221504

>>27219058
When.

Not "if". When.

>> No.27221513

>>27219263
A man looks at a set of dots on a screen and tells what he sees to another man over a radio.
A Man gets this message and gives an order to ten men
Those ten men all order squads to load their respective cannons
A man to lift the shells, a man to close the hatch, a man to read the litanies and many more.

Finally a man to press the button on the signal.

Ten bombardment strikes hit the same place, a hundred men now killers, and yet none responsible.

The demon is dead, who is his killer?

>> No.27221536

>>27221513
A HUNDRED LUCIUSES. LUCIOUSCEPTION. FANFIC TIME GO.

>> No.27221546

>>27221513
Surely he must feel good about wiping out the enemy, even if it's a dot on a screen. It doesn't need to be a "fuck yeah, wasted that guy." Even a tiny morsel of feel is enough.


How about if Lucius is killed by a suicide bomber?

>> No.27221581

>>27221475
>They may have no souls, but they are immune to dangers of the warp.

You mean like how suns can turn into hellstars ejaculating warp fire and daemons all over the star system or how tanks can become ravenous beasts? Yeah, having no soul sure is great.

>> No.27221649

>>27221581
Having soulless voids in your core helps. Also Necrodermis is anti-Warp.

>> No.27221659

>>27221546
Say that the "man" reading the dot on the screen was a servitor or a cogitator system or something.

The men giving orders are uncaring and detached from their service, gaining no service feeling nothing but malice towards their men for taking so long to follow their words.

the men feel nothing but resentment to their master for barking his orders and do their duty only "because he said so"

nobody enjoys it.

>> No.27221690

>>27219959
This would be so awesome!

>> No.27221705

>>27221335

>> No.27221788

That Lucius, such a kidder.

>> No.27221808

>> No.27221900

>>27221649
>Having soulless voids in your core helps.

It's only said to creep Eldar (because to them the soul is everything) and confuse Tyranids.

>Also Necrodermis is anti-Warp

Didn't stop Khaine from blasting Nightbringer's necrodermis into bits with a warp blast. Or Eldar using warp based ranged close combat weapons against the Necrons during the War in Heaven.

>> No.27222004

>>27221900
>It's only said to creep Eldar (because to them the soul is everything) and confuse Tyranids.

It says the soullessness of the Necrons weakens and disturbs Pyskers. Null fields worsens the effect on pyskers.

>Didn't stop Khaine from blasting Nightbringer's necrodermis into bits with a warp blast. Or Eldar using warp based ranged close combat weapons against the Necrons during the War in Heaven.

Nercodermis is immune to the corruption and mutation of the Warp.

However, sorcery and wyrd magics can harm Necrons. But note that they are resistant to it.

It's explained in the Necrons vs Tzeentch piece above.

>> No.27222015

>>27220931
all the chaos gods are generated from the emotions of the livings races, and emotions are not universaly negitive. Korne covers Rage, Blood, and (martial) honour. Slaneesh has Lust, excess, and love. Nurgle has death, disease, and family. Tzeentch is knowledge/secrets, magic, and change.
if the 40k universe was a nicer place, the chaos gods would be nicer, but as its a pretty hellish universe over all, chaos is generaly mean.

>> No.27222031

>>27222015
And because Chaos is mean, it makes the universe a harsher place, requiring the more extreme things, which make things even more harsh.

It's an inevitable and endless cycle.

>> No.27222101

>>27221788
>>27221808
Where is it from?

>> No.27222120

>>27222101
The Medusa Campaign faction reports.

>> No.27222136

>>27222004
>It says the soullessness of the Necrons weakens and disturbs Pyskers.

Codex says Tyranids find Necrons unsettling. Nothing about it disrupting psychic powers.

>Nercodermis is immune to the corruption and mutation of the Warp.

[citation needed]

Seeing that even the codex says the only good defense against psykers is another psyker.

>> No.27222159

Reminder that Lucius got beaten during m32 FOUR FUCKING TIMES.
And died twice.

>> No.27222161

>>27222101
Stitched together from the Space Marine and Chaos weekly reports on the Medusa V campaign website. Wayback Machine to the rescue again:

http://web.archive.org/web/20070312003327/http://medusav.uk.games-workshop.com/campaign/factions/spacemarines.htm

http://web.archive.org/web/20070312002919/http://medusav.uk.games-workshop.com/campaign/factions/chaos.htm

>> No.27222210

Tesseract Labyrinth.

>> No.27222221

>>27222136
>Seeing that even the codex says the only good defense against psykers is another psyker.

(>>27219251) Here.

>> No.27222234

>>27222221
>FFG gonna FFG

>> No.27222269

>>27222031
man it would be hilarous if the universe had a particularly nice day, and a chaos incursion happens, a bunch of cultist kill themselves in offering, a hoarde of deamons crawl from their flesh, and start picking flowers, helping old ladies cross the road, and bringing damaged buildings up to code.

>> No.27222273

>>27222234
Caaaaaaaanon!

As canon as C'tan eating souls and commanding the Warp.

>> No.27222277

So wouldn't Lucius be helping the enemies of Chaos by getting killed by superior champions and then coming back in their bodies?

>> No.27222287

What happens to Lucius if the credit for the kill goes to multiple people simultaneously? Like, if a dozen Lascannon Marines fired at him simultaneously, would they all turn into Lucius? Would Slaanesh roll a d12 to see which Marine turned into Lucius?

>> No.27222303

>>27222273
> eating souls
yes
> commanding the Warp
no

>> No.27222310

>>27222273
>Caaaaaaaanon!

[citation needed]

>> No.27222329

>>27222303
>yes
no

>> No.27222345

>>27222303
>>commanding the Warp

Yes.

The C'tan can summon Warp storms/rifts.

>> No.27222358

>>27222329
Oldcron fludd doesn't apply here.

>> No.27222369

>>27222329
Oh snap.
Well, then are c'tan suckers?

>> No.27222370

>>27222358
fluff*

>> No.27222383

>>27222358
Some of it is Newcron fluff as well.

>> No.27222395

Here wewe gogo againgaingaingaingaingain

>> No.27222431

>>27222383
Which point at the C'tan eating souls.

Or you gonna imply that the souls of a sickly race is more empowering than the stars? Because the C'tan gained a massive power boost by consuming the ''life force/energy'' (Aka souls) of the Necrontyr.

>> No.27222435

>>27222269
Given the nature of Chaos? It is entirely probable that this already HAS happened before.

And then the Inquisition gave the emperor's mercy to a very confused planetary population and went forward to eradicate tulips from the imperium.

>> No.27222464

>>27222395
The Secession Wars will never end!

>> No.27222467

>>27222431
>''life force/energy'' (Aka souls)
> Aka
Not even once.

>> No.27222496

>>27222467
Oh really?

>> No.27222509

>>27220346
fabius was just as surprised as Lucius, hes all like "nigga u ded wtf"

>> No.27222604

>>27222159
When you're distracted by how fucking awesome getting hurt feels, it's sometimes easy to forget that you're supposed to actually win the fucking fight.

>> No.27222612

>>27220144
>burned up
More like snorted.

>> No.27222708

>>27222431
>Which point at the C'tan eating souls.

So, when old fluff says "essence" it's not souls, but because FFG, a 3rd party developer, says souls, all newcron references to "essence" are now "souls"? Care to explain the logic here?

Farsight's Dawn Blade is said to steal the life of its victim and DE Cronos steal life essence invigorating allies around it and it's called a "time-thief" not a soul sucker nor is the word "soul" mentioned anywhere in its entry.

Also, care to explain to me how star energy and souls are alike? You don't see daemons nor dark gods feeding on stars, stars aren't shining beacons in the warp, Emperor didn't build the astronomicon around a star, but around psykers, etc. And even in the old fluff the Void-Dragon fed on twin-stars to be at the zenith of its power to be ready.

It's not just pure gigawatts. In the old fluff the life essence, especially when laced with fear and terror, was the best thing. It's having a hardy meal of meat and wine over a nutrients paste, even if the nutrients are way better for you.

>> No.27222770

>>27222159
This. This right fucking here Is why I hate that I like slaanesh the most because no matter how cool he and his piece of the chaos pie is, Lucius will ALWAYS get shat on by kharn, or Typhon, or Sevatar, or some generic raven guard we'll never hear from again...

>> No.27222788

>>27222770
its slaanesh dude, s/he enjoys geting shat on.

>> No.27222794

>>27222310
>[citation needed]
stop it Andrew

>> No.27222816

>>27222708
>Farsight's Dawn Blade is said to steal the life of its victim and DE Cronos steal life essence invigorating allies around it and it's called a "time-thief" not a soul sucker nor is the word "soul" mentioned anywhere in its entry.

The method of their life leeching is implied to be technological. They are stealing time and not souls.

>Also, care to explain to me how star energy and souls are alike?

Both are reservoirs of energy and both can be corrupted. Souls, apparently, are more empowering than the stars.

>You don't see daemons nor dark gods feeding on stars, stars aren't shining beacons in the warp,

Everything reflects in the Warp and even stars can be corrupted.

>. And even in the old fluff the Void-Dragon fed on twin-stars to be at the zenith of its power to

And in the new fluff, the C'tan reached their zenith can consuming the souls of the Necrontyr.

>It's not just pure gigawatts. In the old fluff the life essence, especially when laced with fear and terror, was the best thing. It's having a hardy meal of meat and wine over a nutrients paste, even if the nutrients are way better for you.


Its changed. Souls/Living energy was the fuel of the C'tan's power and not simply a favored sweetmeat.

>> No.27222864

>>27222816
>everything reflects in the warp
>everything
rock demons, flower demons, O god...shit demons everywhere.
(you're an idiot)

>> No.27222869

>>27222770
Who cares? To a servant of Slaanesh, death is just another drug.

You think Lucius hates being defeated? He's the champion of Slaanesh. HE LOVES BEING DEFEATED.

>> No.27222896

>>27222869
He likes the feeling death brings, but hes a prideful mother at heart I dont thoink he really enjoys being beaten.

>> No.27222963

>>27222864
Ever wonder why planets, weapons, and inanimate objects in general develop sentience when the Warp comes knocking?

>> No.27222968

>>27222896
If you're a prideful fucker, you accept defeat to a superior opponent. That's martial honour.

Of course, to Lucius it holds special value since playing to that martial honour is the key to his immortality.

>> No.27222971

>>27220931
>I thought that khorne was honorable and martial but who the fuck am I to think that the lore would be steady with all the recent changes.

Khorne has never been honorable in 40k. Stop pretending to be an oldfag.

>> No.27222991

>>27222816
>The method of their life leeching is implied to be technological. They are stealing time and not souls.

And the words "life (force)" and "essence" are mentioned in both, but apparently Necrons with no understanding of souls nor the warp just happened to make instead a machine that sucks souls out of their victims?

>Both are reservoirs of energy and both can be corrupted.

Warp "energy" is a bit different. Stars can be turned into warp rifts and planets warped into hellscapes, but it's not like a star can be corrupted the same way a person can be by using its soul to affect them or slip into their minds while they're using psychic powers.

>C'tan reached their zenith can consuming the souls of the Necrontyr

Life essence. And DE seem to be pretty invigorated after consuming the life essence from the Cronus, but when I zap them with a tesla carbine, they just die. What's up with that? Energy is energy, right?

>>27222794
Why don't you make me with a source?

>> No.27223085

Slaanesh likes Lucius, to be fair he embodies slaanesh's ways perfectly. He goes around testing his skill against the opponent, and should the opponent win and feel anything then Lucius is that opponent now and has all his skills. Then the quest continues to find the best and strongest person.

>> No.27223100

>>27222345
That doesn't say anything about Warp phenomena. It's not even known just what the Hadex Anomaly is.

>> No.27223103

>>27222971
>Khorne has never been honorable in 40k. Stop pretending to be an oldfag.

But that's wrong, mate.
>>27221095

>> No.27223118

>>27222963
Do they? In some cases, yeah, but throw a rock unprotected through the warp and it doesn't come citing Shakespeare with a knife in its teeth through the other side. There's whole planets that have been lost in the warp and they might be fucked up, but not big daemon planets out to get you.

And it's only when exposed to raw warp energy. A rock on the street isn't suddenly gonna become possessed because a daemon slipped into it through the warp like it would do with a psyker, nor is it gonna whisper things to the rock to influence it, causing the rock to get angry and accept Khorne as its true lord and savior.

>> No.27223124

>>27222273
>Caaaaaaaanon!

ADB confirmed that it was not.

>> No.27223131

>>27222991
>but apparently Necrons with no understanding of souls nor the warp just happened to make instead a machine that sucks souls out of their victims?

Necron perhaps couldn't. The C'tan certainly did though.

>Warp "energy" is a bit different. Stars can be turned into warp rifts and planets warped into hellscapes, but it's not like a star can be corrupted the same way a person can be by using its soul to affect them or slip into their minds while they're using psychic powers.

Again. Everything has a reflection in the Warp. That reflection can be corrupted like any soul.

Chaos can grant it sentience, if it willed.

>Life essence. And DE seem to be pretty invigorated after consuming the life essence from the Cronus, but when I zap them with a tesla carbine, they just die. What's up with that? Energy is energy, right?

The Dark Eldar aren't living Gods of pure energy, maybe?

>> No.27223140

>>27222770
So what? Maybe he just enjoys dying. I like it that it's almost impossible to hurt Emperor's Children back as badly as they hurt others, because they're likely to be thankful for whatever shit you do to them.

>> No.27223150

>>27223118
Everythying has a reflect in the Warp, dude. And there are big Daemon planet read the Chaos Marine Codex.

>> No.27223167

>>27219213
The daemon physically destroyed them. It took form, summoned an army, and wiped them out. That's different than possession and corruption.

>> No.27223172

>>27223103
But it's not wrong, mate. Fagtron over there is just pitching his own idea, Khorne himself cares for slaughter alone.

>> No.27223193

>>27223172
But he does encompass an aspect of honor.

It shows up from time to time.

>> No.27223197

>>27221232
Slaanesh cares not from where the blow flows. Only that it does.

>> No.27223227

>>27222991
I'm not even part of your arguement, I just disapprove of such unsubtle bait.

>> No.27223234

>>27223131
>Necron perhaps couldn't. The C'tan certainly did though.

Szeras was the one who designed and built the machinery. And even with the knowledge of the C'tan and the biotransference machines, he still can't figure out what's missing with his experiments to create life.

>Everything has a reflection in the Warp.

[citation needed]

>> No.27223251

>>27223172
Khorne is a war god. And he stretches across many disciplines of war. Honourable war and nuclear genocide... It's all game. Khorne doesn't care from where the blood flows.

>> No.27223267

>>27223193
It has never been in 40k, first time Khorne was introduced to the setting in was via Realms of Chaos, and that was mostly about how Khorne enjoy killing your own team most of all because it shows you truly give no fucks about anything other than slaughter.
And of course his special character is the guy called the Betrayer.

>> No.27223272

>>27222864
>daemon fa/tg/uys
JACK CHICK WAS RIGHT!

>> No.27223293

>>27222968
pride=/= honor
I'm pretty sure we can all agree that honor is an outmoded concept to Lucius, fun to play with but dropped when inconvenient

>> No.27223301

>>27222864
Reflections don't mean daemons.

>> No.27223312

>>27223234
Ta-Da!

(>>27223150)

>Szeras was the one who designed and built the machinery. And even with the knowledge of the C'tan and the biotransference machines, he still can't figure out what's missing with his experiments to create life.

Still don't see how the failings of the Szeras relate to the C'tan.

The C'tan tricked the Necrontyr into creating a machine that siphoned their souls and fed them to the C'tan.

>> No.27223371

>>27223301
what does reflection mean then? We know for sure that even sentient beings can NOT have a relection in the warp (necrons, pariahs) so I doubt theres some minor chaos entity that embodies pebbles.

>> No.27223373

>>27219058
What happens if automated fire kills Lucius?
Do we get a bastion-sized Lucius?

>> No.27223382

>>27223267
The Bloodthirsters are said to range from savage beasts or honorable warriors. Bloodthirsters stop in their tracks and issue a salute to their challenger.

Skulltaker duels honorably.

Khorne might be rageball but there is some small aspect of warrior honor in there.

>> No.27223402

>>27223373
Whenever Lucius is dead, Slaanesh just resurrects him.

That's what the Chaos Gods do. They resurrect their champions. Except for Khorne. Kharn has only died once at the gates of the Imperial Palace.

Tough motherfucker.

>> No.27223434

>>27223131
>The Dark Eldar aren't living Gods of pure energy, maybe?
Hm, I never thinked of myself like this.

>> No.27223437

>>27223371
Reflection is a ''soul''. Everything has those. Sentient beings reflection burn the brightest in the Warp.

The exceptions are the Necrons and pariahs. The first threw way their souls and the second has a genetic trait that stops a soul from developing.

>> No.27223447

>>27223382
Well, remember a lot of Khorne's power actually comes from the Craftworld Eldar and the Imperium, so that has some effect.

>> No.27223463

>>27223371
A presence in the warp. Daemons are creations of the gods.

>> No.27223493

>>27223437
exactly, so are you trying to assert that innanimate objects DO have souls?
>>27223463
I'm pretty sure daemons are supposed to be essentially little versions of the patron deity that have "fallen off" essentially

>> No.27223495

>>27219058
>grey knight kills Lucius
>Slaanesh tries to turn grey knight into Lucius
>grey knight gets pissed and carves his name into Slaanesh's heart

>> No.27223509

>>27223447
Craftworlders and in fact all the eldar race feed him not.

>> No.27223529

>>27223493
>I'm pretty sure daemons are supposed to be essentially little versions of the patron deity that have "fallen off" essentially

No, the Gods created the daemons for fucking shit up in other dimensions as the gods are tied too closely to the warp to leave it.

>> No.27223536

>>27223495
only possible if he throws out his scabbard beforehand,

>> No.27223539

>>27223493
>exactly, so are you trying to assert that innanimate objects DO have souls?

Yes they do. a Tiny one that has the potential to grow if certain conditions are met.

If I take a random rock and bash enough people heads with it, its reflection in the Warp (SOUL) will grow until it develops sentience.

>> No.27223559

>>27223539
ya, im gonna need some sort of source for that because There arent any objects that fit that description in the lore that arent either technological marvels or possesed.

>> No.27223565

>>27223539
The funny thing.
Necrons have no souls. But their weapon that killed shittone of sentient creaturs are supposed to have reflections in the warp.

>> No.27223574

>>27223559
Mutilators. The souls of weapons grow powerful by killing.

>> No.27223591

>>27223559

see

>>27223150

Do you have an issue with scalpels having souls, anon?

Funny thing is that this justifies the tech priests religion. The machine spirits are real!

>> No.27223602

>>27223559
CSM 6ed.

>> No.27223604

>>27223312
>Still don't see how the failings of the Szeras relate to the C'tan.

C'tan didn't give Szeras the blueprints and hover over his shoulder, telling him where to put everything. They gave him the knowledge he needed to design and make the machine himself. Surely he'd have to understand how it works in order to design and make it, so surely he'd know what the soul decoupler was there for, why else would have put it in there?

>fed them to the C'tan

You mean cast if off, where it was then devoured by the C'tan. You know what usually happens to a soul when it's "cast off"? It goes into the warp. So apparently the Szarekh had a warp vision as he was able to witness this.

>> No.27223607

>>27223493
only applies to deamons of Nurgle hence the whole papa Nurgle thing. the other gods created their servants

>> No.27223630

>>27223591
Funny thing is that the machine spirit is supposed to be an AI.
So weapon can have two sentiences, that even can rival each other.

>> No.27223635

>>27223604
>So apparently the Szarekh had a warp vision as he was able to witness this.

Souls can stay in the materium, hence ghosts and shit.

>> No.27223664

>>27223574
well ill be, just looked them up and according to the one source I was able to find, you're right. My mistake.

>> No.27223672

>>27223574
Yes in a universe where weapons can be thousands of years old and seen endless war, there's not many sentient weapons around. Usually ones bound by a daemon.

>>27223539
Codex: Chaos Daemons, 6e (newer than CSM), says daemons are "born" when a Chaos god takes portion of its power and separates it from themselves into another entity.

>> No.27223699

>>27223672
>Yes in a universe where weapons can be thousands of years old and seen endless war, there's not many sentient weapons around.

Not many that you know of. It's described as a limited sentience as well, so they're not going to start blabbing to you in any case.

>> No.27223712

>>27223635
In very rare cases and usually not without some specific, fucked up warp event.

>> No.27223731

>>27223712
>In very rare cases and usually not without some specific, fucked up warp event.

A mass suicide of trillions of beings is not a rare and fucked up event?

>> No.27223751

>>27223672
>Yes in a universe where weapons can be thousands of years old and seen endless war, there's not many sentient weapons around. Usually ones bound by a daemon.

Yet all weapons from the laughable lasgun to the mighty thunderhammer has a reflection in the Warp.

A reflection that can grow and thrive through bloodshed or be possessed by Daemons.

>Codex: Chaos Daemons, 6e (newer than CSM), says daemons are "born" when a Chaos god takes portion of its power and separates it from themselves into another entity.

This has nothing do to with the previous post. Warp relection =/= Daemons.

>> No.27223756

>>27223699
>Not many that you know of.

Any that I know of. What weapon is sentient without plenty of warp exposure or a daemon bound to it? Only one I know of is the Eldar Deathsword, but that thing was made to be a weird semi-sentient crystal blade thing that eats souls. It wasn't a combat knife that saw so much action shit literally got real.

>> No.27223785

>>27223756
Remember the comic about the bolter that was praying to the Emperor?

That was cool.

>> No.27223797

>>27223756
>Any that I know of. What weapon is sentient without plenty of warp exposure or a daemon bound to it?

True relics. So I'd expect the likes of the Gauntlets of Ultramar to possess a limited sentience.

>> No.27223815

>>27223756
>What weapon is sentient without plenty of warp exposure or a daemon bound to it
Iirc hydrae gauntlets have some kind of rudimental sentience.
Also, djin blades.

>> No.27223824

>>27223751
>Yet all weapons from the laughable lasgun to the mighty thunderhammer has a reflection in the Warp.

When has this even happened before?

>A reflection that can grow and thrive through bloodshed or be possessed by Daemons.

And when has a daemon been bound to a weapon without specific rituals of summoning and binding?

>> No.27223833

>>27219058
The answer is always Lucius.

>> No.27223862

>>27223815
Is this sentience gained through bloodshed or innate part of the grown crystal weapon?

>> No.27223878

>>27223604
>Surely he'd have to understand how it works in order to design and make it, so surely he'd know what the soul decoupler was there for, why else would have put it in there?
Not at all. That displays a complete ignorance of how machines are actually built. If the C'tan gave just blueprints, whether they were purely in the mind or physical blueprints, there would be no need to accurately explain what each piece is or what it does, just follow the blueprint. Or the knowledge could be purposely tainted, so that Szeras was able to comprehend what he was building on only general level, and so not only does he not know that souls will be removed, but does not know that the machine might be able to be built without that happening.

Ork technology works the same way. Mekboys only know if they put certain things together they will get certain results, but they could not explain what each piece does or why it is necessary.

Many human workers operate the same way, able to put an engine, air conditioner, etc together, tell you what the pieces do, but they could not explain the scientific principles behind it to save their lives, and so it would be very easy to have unnecessary contraptions that people think are necessary.

>> No.27223899

>>27223824
>When has this even happened before?

All the time.

Anytime a mutilator is formed he fuses himself with the spirits of the weapons.

>And when has a daemon been bound to a weapon without specific rituals of summoning and binding?

During times of Warp outbreaks, I expect.

>> No.27223911

what happens if I fuck lucius ass?
Will he enjoy it so much he turns depressive because no one will ever top that?
Will he become celibate?

>> No.27223922

>>27223878
Indeed, if Szeras knew what he was doing the Necrons would have punished him along with the C'tan.

>> No.27223924

>>27223862
Dunno, I think even creators of this weapons don't know it for sure.
But djin blade being sentient is fact, it can suddenly "oi m8 im going fukken stub ya face now".
By the way, fluff about weapon reflections and fluff about djin blades both are written by Kelly.

>> No.27223998

>At the time of biotransference, the Necrontyr have been torn apart by their wars with the Old Ones and themselves and reduced from ruling much of the galaxy to a minor irritation confined to isolated and forgotten worlds.
>They get turned into machines, which means no more reproduction.
>After taking even more massive losses during the War in Heaven, the Necrons go to sleep. There are enough left to populate ‘many millions’ of Tomb Worlds with squillions of Necrons.

>> No.27224028

>>27223998

>> No.27224063

>>27223998
Necrontyr miracle quantum science allowed the ''its bigger in the inside'' effect in their strongholds and also they were capable of creating dimensions.

So the Necron population centers could have hundreds of billions and even trillions!

>> No.27224074

>>27224063
could have supported*

>> No.27224106

>>27223899
>Anytime a mutilator is formed he fuses himself with the spirits of the weapons.

And that's about the only place you'll ever see any of that.

>>27223878
So C'tan, creatures of pure energy, have detailed knowledge of machinery and capabilities of humanoid creatures to fabricate them? And are experts at informing others of how to build things to such a degree, that the workers themselves don't even realize what they're making?

>Many human workers operate the same way

Even the lead designers?

The fluff says the C'tan might have provided the knowledge, but Szeras made it reality. They don't credit the dudes at the factory for the products they make by the blueprints.

>> No.27224127

>>27223998
Just goes to show how many Necrontyr there were at their zenith.

>> No.27224144

>>27224106
>And that's about the only place you'll ever see any of that.

Does it need to be in more than one place to be a valid part of the setting's lore?

>> No.27224153

>>27223539
They don't have 'souls' but everything handled by living creatures slowly absorbs the ambient energy living things give off. This is why certain objects can become Objects of Power or artefacts. It is why certain swords that have been used constantly over generations seem to cut better than other weapons, why certain armors are just better even though they are older and the newer armors have better tech in them recently discovered by the admech.

>> No.27224154

>Before the coming of the C’tan, there were many hundreds of Necrontyr dynasties. Some wielded vast political and military power while others were vestigial and broken, echoes of once great houses. Through the Wars of Secession, the rebellion against biotransference, the War in Heaven and the Great Sleep, many thousands of royal dynasties were destroyed. It is impossible to say how many survived, save that they number in the hundreds, or possibly thousands.

>> No.27224160

>>27224106
>So C'tan, creatures of pure energy, have detailed knowledge of machinery and capabilities of humanoid creatures to fabricate them? And are experts at informing others of how to build things to such a degree, that the workers themselves don't even realize what they're making?

Yes.

>The fluff says the C'tan might have provided the knowledge, but Szeras made it reality.

Yup the C'tan told him what to do and Szeras built the things that did it.

>> No.27224182

>>27223998
You do realize that even though the Imperium is spread across the galaxy, they actually control a very tiny fraction of it with alien empires and vast gulfs of unexplored space divides Imperial sectors. For the million Imperial worlds, there's billions left in the galaxy to live on.

And for a race with low life expectancy, rapid breeding might have been the only option to "live on" and make sure their species survives.

>> No.27224193

>>27224106
>So C'tan, creatures of pure energy, have detailed knowledge of machinery and capabilities of humanoid creatures to fabricate them? And are experts at informing others of how to build things to such a degree, that the workers themselves don't even realize what they're making?

Duuuuuuh

The Dragon of Mars, remember?

>but Szeras made it reality

Was found innocent by the Necron courts and the C'tan were found guilty.

>> No.27224201

>>27223630
Not AI, the machine spirit is a combination of programming and just the basic machine functions. A simple gun can jamb if the machine spirit is annoyed, a file can go missing from a computer if the machine spirit is annoyed, and a car can stall if the machine spirit is annoyed.

>> No.27224226

>>27224201
Spirits can make that happen. Warp reflections are confirmed.

>> No.27224237

>>27221335
>You're misinterpreting stuff.
As are you. Nurgle is not the Chaos God of stagnation like a pool of still water brimming with microscopic life, he is the Chaos God of hopelessness and inaction, coupled with a stubborn desire to continue to exist. This desire to exist is not coupled with a desire to make their lives better, but rather a blind acceptance of their circumstances.

Nurgle only uses diseases because he is a narcissistic abuser who makes people so hideously diseased that everyone else recoils in horror, then comes up and goes, "See baby, only I love you," and the diseases further his theme of, "Giving up hope and just accepting your fate is to live like this, so trudge on traveler, through the muck and the shit that is your existence."

Nurgle represents stagnation only as the definition of, "To become sluggish, dull," as that is what he makes his followers, slow of mind and thought, trapped in a twisted Stockholm syndrome with their tormentor, who they have come to obsessively believe loves them, despite the piles of evidence to the contrary.

>> No.27224265

>>27223630
well not quite AI, as AI are very susciptable to chaos. Thats why they use servitors and the like, basicly brains as computers are less vulnerable than computers as computers. A lot of the tech in 40k has a mind comprable to that of a small animal, though feircely loyal. You remember the comic witht he space dead space marine and the text pleading not to be forgoten and left for scavengers, and in the end its shown that its the weapon the text is about. Yeah, that stuff.

>> No.27224291

>>27224144
No, but doesn't mean it's universal. So far all we know is that Mutilators, CSM exposed to plenty of warp corruption, want to become their blades. But we don't have much examples of weapons outside of this context turning sentient through pure use or immaterial objects having a warp presence.

>> No.27224337

>>27224226
The thing is that there are members of the Admech who are good enough that they can apparently do things like jamb or unjamb weapons from across the room just by reciting a prayer to the machine spirits.

Even if weapons don't have souls, the fact that humanity now believes they do could in fact GIVE machines some form of spirit.

Orks believe that red things go faster, thus they do. If the entire human race believes the same thing with various levels of understanding, isn't it possible that they somehow are giving these things power? j

I mean sisters of battle believe something so strongly that it actually visibly changes the physical world, what about the combined belief of all of humanity?

>> No.27224364

>>27224160
You're entitled to your views.

>>27224193
>The Dragon of Mars

Inspiring visions isn't exactly the same as hard blueprints of stuff.

>Was found innocent by the Necron courts and the C'tan were found guilty.

The same court that found Old Ones to be guilty of something-something and started the War in Heaven?

>> No.27224376

>>27224291
>No, but doesn't mean it's universal.

It does though as it speaks in universal terms about the warp reflections of weapons. Mutilators want to eat them, but that doesn't mean it's only mutilator weapons.

>> No.27224870

>>27224376
It says that all have potential for it, but so far the only ones that we've come across with this sentience through use stuff have been the weapons of the mutilators. Dudes who are so warped they fuse with their weapons. And it only say weapons. Nothing about every immaterial thing in the universe having a warp reflection. I don't even remember the daemon codex making any reference to anything of the sort.

>> No.27225241

>>27220451

>Anything in the warp staying dead

>> No.27225954

>>27221232
I thought blow was slaneesh's domain though...

>> No.27226145

>>27223509

If we are to believe he fought Slaanesh over Khaine, then that is not so.

>> No.27226321

>>27225241
Alpha legion knows how to kill chaos gods. First, we must kill everything that feeds them.

>> No.27228174

>>27223731
Not in 40k.

>> No.27228256

>>27226145
It's old and retconned.

>> No.27228388

>>27223731
Well, for one, the warp was calm back then and the barrier between reality and the warp was strong. And Necrontyr souls would have been weak as fuck. And we don't know what sort of timescale they were working on, since I highly doubt they just zapped everyone at once, so it was likely a long process with few key facilities per planet/system that that churned out the Necrons.

And no, in the scale of 40k a mass genocide is not a big deal. Maybe if you were specifically trying to conjure up some shit, but then you'd have stuff prepared for it. Just purging a world of a few hundred billion people is not that unheard of and doesn't often result in ghosts and shit just hovering across the landscape.

>> No.27228429

>>27226321

So kill everything?

This doesn't seem very economical

>> No.27230495

>>27224201

There's more than one kind of machine spirit. The power of the Machine spirit special rule landraiders have is supposed to be from an AI. Older fluff directs the origins of the machines to be a redesigning of a humanlike brain made from plastics.

>> No.27235016

Didn't Slaanesh cost Khorne, Nurgle, and Tzeentch their friend?

>> No.27235879

>>27223100
>Spews breaks in Space-time
>Ships trapped in stasis

Sounds like Necron tomfoolery to me.

>> No.27236034

>>27219175
In events like that, Slaanesh just brings him back to life.

The whole "taking over someone's body if they take pleasure in killing him" isn't the key to his resurrection, it's just something he does if it happens to happen when he dies. If it doesn't, he just reincarnates without them.

>> No.27236335

>>27219058
The Grey Knight, knowing the lore of the infamous lucius, immediately kills himself. Not out of fear of corruption, but out of duty to make sure his immortal enemy is put to rest permanently.

>> No.27237103

>>27220700
I happened to like Doomrider's throbbing daemonsword.

>> No.27237121

>>27223447
You mean the orks.

>> No.27237151

>>27236335
...and then slaanesh transforms some random loyal cultist into lucius, great job, brother grey knight.

>> No.27237236

>>27223402
When did Typhus die?

>> No.27237862

>>27235879
But is it warp based tomfoolery?

>> No.27238378

>>27220442
Oh Khorne, you so tsundere.

>> No.27238481

>>27228388
Actually, Necrontyr souls lingered and swan over the biotransference sites where the C'tan feasted on them with glee.

>> No.27238503

>>27223100
The Hadex anomaly is Warp Storm and its also sentient.

>> No.27238552

>>27238503
5e rulebook says it's an anomaly of unknown origins that can't be categorized, possibly sentient and it traps ships in stasis field. Nothing about it being warp related.

>> No.27238578

>>27238552
>The Hadex Anomaly is a raging Warp phenomenon that lies at the core of the Jericho Reach in the Eastern Fringe of the galaxy. Bathing countless worlds in a sickly red glow, this nebulous tear in space-time represents far more than a navigational hazard or obstruction to astropathic communication.

>Though clearly a Warp/realspace overlap like most other similar events, the Hadex Anomaly exerts an exotic effect not just upon the physical realm but on the temporal as well.

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Hadex_Anomaly
It's warp related.

>> No.27238612

>>27238578
>using wiki as a source

>> No.27238643

>>27238612
Check the sources at the bottom of the page if you have issue with the Wikis findings.

>> No.27238707

>>27238643
The Hadex Anomaly within the Acheros Salient is a blight upon the galaxy. It represents a place where the warp and the physical realm interface in a manner that enables daemons to freely enter reality. This hideous manifestation must not be allowed to continue. Unless the Imperium discovers a way to seal this massive portal, the forces of Chaos can continue to corrupt reality.

-Deathwatchh : Jericho Reach

Yep, It's Warp related.

>> No.27238722

>>27238643
You're the one trying to prove something, so why don't you go look those sources up instead?

I also love it how FFG fluff is used to support FFG fluff as a legitimate source.

>> No.27238741

>>27238722

You look

here

>>27238707

Your FFG hate fetish must stop.

>> No.27238794

>>27221369
>>27221369
>>27221437
>>27221460
Malal Confirmed for Chaos god of the Necrons.

>> No.27238824

>>27238741
People need to stop using FFG as a legitimate, canon fluff source to suit their own views.

>> No.27238841

>>27238824
It's a great source of canon and great fluff. Why should they?

>> No.27238878

>>27238841
I'm sure it is, but it's not canon and they get plenty of stuff wrong or just make their own spin on the fluff.

>> No.27238888

>>27238824
>>27238878
FFG is as canon as everything else.

>> No.27238906

>>27238878
The authors of BL and GW aren't any less guilty of doing exactly the same thing.

And there is nothing that says its not canon.

>> No.27238907

>>27238878
no fluff in WH40K is canon, that is why it is called fluff in the first place

>> No.27238941

>>27238888
Here we go again.

You use that tired old quote from Marc (who hasn't worked for GW since 2008) and later people have elaborated that GW fluff is canon and everything else is just a spin on it. Then you won't believe it until I provide a credible source, but you neither can find a credible source for the quote for "everything is official", and then we're at an impasse, until this whole thing comes up in another thread.

>> No.27238949

>>27219329

Obvious two step solution, then.

1) Get a bald Guardsman with a Texan accent and possibly an augmetic hand to fight Lucius, give him six months to prep.

2) Lucius is lured to the kill zone. SUDDENLY SENTRY GUNS EVERYWHERE

3) Lucius dies

4) The guardsman has voluntarily spaced himself one month prior and is now floating in a close-to-a-sun orbit, somewhere where Lucius would never have the delta-V to get out of anyway.

5) Jeb Kerman demands more boosters.

>> No.27238957

>>27238824
> 40k fluff
> legitimate
Pick one.

Every source of 40k fluff is all over the fucking place, and more often than not full of blatant errors and outright stupidity (like one of the codex writers not knowing the difference between a galaxy and a universe).

>> No.27239028

>>27238957
Isn't it funny, that when ever you try to refute FFG, it's "all is canon, nothing is set in stone, it's all a big mess", but when someone uses FFG as a source, it's "latest and therefore the most official and most canon source ever!"

It's like when people claim Chaos has existed forever and is a primordial force set in the foundation of the universe, using FFG sources (because they're newer and therefore more official than anything older) and when you whip out even newer 6e fluff where Chaos was born from the emotions of sentients and the destruction of the gods would calm the warp (not destroy the world), it's "it's all official and choose to believe my version."

>> No.27239049

>>27238941
>you won't believe it until I provide a credible source
Yup. Where is your source?

> you neither can find a credible source for the quote for "everything is official"
It doesn't work that way. They said everything with 40k logo is official, no matter how long ago that was unless you give me a quote that directly contradicts that, it's still true.

>> No.27239088

>>27238941
Then I am free to claim the C'tan are soul reavers and have the ability to summon warp horrors and Warp rifts until a ''credible'' and recent source comes along to disprove it.

>> No.27239141

>>27239028
One of the many names of Chaos is the ''primordial annihilator'' and its been stated in the past that the destruction of the Chaos Gods will destroy EVERZING that exists (which would calm the Warp since everything would be dead).

So FFG fluff gets support even from the ''studio'' fluff.

>> No.27239150

>>27219058

Wonderful things

>> No.27239152

>>27239028
I have no idea if its funny - I never have such stupid fucking arguments.

40k fluff is all illegitimate bullshit thats made to fit the whims of the writers at any given moment - none of it is really cohesive, barely any of it makes anything resembling sense, and its a total waste to argue over what is or is not canon... Because the measure of 'canonicity' is fucking irrelevant, because its all over the fucking place, even within the 'most canon' sources you can find.

Why? Because the writers put almost no effort into actually thinking about what they're writing, or how it applies to the rest of the shit they have/are writing, so its just a big fucking mess and arguing over which bits of it are more/less legit is incredibly fucking stupid.

>> No.27239174

>>27239088
You are free to believe it.

>>27239049
For example, here:
http://www.starfleetjedi.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2029&start=0

>> No.27239240

>>27239152
Yeah, but when ever someone brings up FFG, it's given as the 100% accurate source. If FFG says it, everything else is automatically old fluff and useless, and even newer claims that refute the FFG fluff are twisted to that they actually support FFG (see >>27239141) And if you can actually corner the argument, then it's "lolololol all is official and everything is shit!"

>> No.27239323

>>27239174
Awesome.

Then I can begin phase two. Theorem Incendia unus!

Khaine is the Burning One. Makes so much sense but I rather leave it for another thread. Later!

>> No.27239332

>>27239240
> Yeah, but when ever someone brings up FFG, it's given as the 100% accurate source.
Dude, its 40k fluff - there's no such thing as a 100% accurate source. At least 50% of the material is presented in the form of Imperial propaganda, and whatever remains is utterly without cohesion.

> If FFG says it, everything else is automatically old fluff and useless
If someone thinks that way, WHY ARE YOU STILL TALKING TO THEM?!
Old fluff, new fluff, it doesn't matter - its all nonsensical shit spewed out at the drop of dime to suit the momentary whims of writers who are barely fit to operate a keyboard.

> And if you can actually corner the argument, then it's "lolololol all is official and everything is shit!"
Again, WHY ARE YOU STILL TALKING TO THESE PEOPLE?!

Its like arguing over star wars fluff for fucks sake - its pretend time sphess fantasy bullshit written by dumbasses.
There's no legitimacy here, there's no 'official' fluff, it a meringue of bullshit that changes year to year at the behest of the folks spewing it onto a page.

You think X is more legit than Y? Good for you. Its not worth arguing about - its barely worth THINKING about, for fucks sake.
Hell, I LIKE 40k, and even I'm not about to sit around arguing over whether one source of inane bullshit is more canon than another - because it doesnt fucking matter, at all.

>> No.27239363

If the C'tan did eat souls, why does the codex never actually say it? Why would GW's most notoriously in-your-face writer repeatedly dance around something so huge?

GW:
>As the cyclopean machines clamoured, the C’tan swarmed about the biotransference sites, drinking in the torrent of cast-off life energy and growing ever stronger.

FFG:
>Above each furnace swooped and dove the ethereal true-forms of the C’tan as they glutted themselves on the spiritual detritus of an entire species.


GW:
>As Szarekh watched the C’tan feast on the life essence of his people, he realised the terrible depth of his mistake. In many ways, he felt better than he had in decades, the countless aches and uncertainties of organic life now behind him. His new machine body was far mightier than the frail form he had tolerated for so long, and his thoughts were swifter and clearer than they had ever been. Yet there was an emptiness gnawing at his mind, an inexpressible hollowness of spirit that defied rational explanation. In that moment, he knew with cold certainty that the price of physical immortality had been the loss of his soul. With great sorrow the Silent King beheld the fate he had brought upon his people: the Necrontyr were now but a memory, and the soulless Necrons reborn in their place.

FFG:
>It was only when the Silent King himself emerged from the bio-transference process and looked upon what had become of his people that he saw the awful truth of the pact he had made. Though immortality and nigh godlike strength and vigour were his, it had come at the cost of his soul, the effluvial remains of which had already been sucked down the gullet of a circling C’tan.

>> No.27239372

GW:
>With the C’tan and the Necrons fighting as one, the Old Ones were now doomed to defeat. Glutted on the life force of the Necrontyr, the empowered C’tan were nigh unstoppable and unleashed forces beyond comprehension.

FFG:
>Renewed by their devouring of the souls of an entire species, the C’tan were unstoppable, and with the legions of the Necrons marching in their wake, the Old Ones were doomed.


GW:
>Necron legions finally broached the webway and assailed the Old Ones in every corner of the galaxy. They brought under siege the fortresses of the Old Ones’ allies, harvesting the life force of the defenders to feed their masters. Ultimately, beset by the implacable onset of the C’tan and the calamitous Warp-spawned perils they had themselves mistakenly unleashed, the Old Ones were defeated, scattered and finally destroyed.

FFG:
>At the last, after an epoch of slaughter, the C’tan broke into the Webway. The vengeful star gods glutted themselves upon the souls of the Old Ones’ servants and, probably unknowingly, but ultimately disastrously, they unleashed such Warp-spawned perils upon the galaxy that the Old Ones were at last overwhelmed and utterly defeated.

>> No.27239391

>>27239174
Best case for you this means that BL/FFG is secondary canon to GW, certainly not that it's not canon as you claim.

>> No.27239478

>>27239363
>>27239372

Just when I...argh.

Do you really think that the bio-electricity of a sickly race would empower the C'tan to incredible power levels and enable them to pull feats of ridiculous cosmic destruction? No, that doesn't make sense at all.

Only souls can grant that power. Trillions of souls that's the stuff gods are made off.

>> No.27239510

>>27239174
>So, is there a consensus?
>Negatory.
>There really isn’t.
Sums it up pretty well.

>> No.27239542

>>27239478
And then the C'tan went on and ate the souls of the super-psychic Old Ones and all those psyker races everywhere all over the galaxy, yet somehow they expended ALL this soulpowa even with gorillions of Necrons fighting for them.

>> No.27239611

>>27239542
Who knew that fighting against other Gods powered also with soulpowa would be a tiresome ordeal?

>> No.27239628

>>27239611
If we're treating FFG as canon then the Necrons themselves had the power to kill Warp gods and smash planets apart with a single scythe-blow.

>> No.27239629

Oldcron fluff made specific reference to lifeforce being different from souls. I'd assume the same applies here, given the C'tan are still supposed to be weak to the Warp and eating their Kryptonite wouldn't make them stronger.

>> No.27239648

>>27239478
And the Dawn Blade and Cronos?

>> No.27239690

>>27224337
The red going faster is also based on the fact that they modify their vehicles faster and then paint it red to signify it's made faster. The Ork power is a bit more subtle.

>> No.27239691

>>27239648
Dawn Blade is made outta ''chronophagic alloys''. Implication that time was being stolen and not souls or life essence.

Not sure about Cronos, But the name suggest time trickery.

>>27239628
Only a gifted few. The Crimson Scythe was clearly unique among the Phaerons of the Necrons.

>> No.27239710

>>27239690
Please.

Anzion research shows that Ork Waaagh! powers are anything but subtle.

>> No.27239781

>> No.27239813

>>27239781

>> No.27239822

>>27239813

>> No.27239836

>>27239822

>> No.27239840

>>27239836

>> No.27239856

>>27239840

>> No.27239863

>>27226321
Alternatively, invade the tooth fairy's castle and cast ancient magic upon the teeth to make children not believe in chaos gods.

>> No.27239931

>>27239856
Thanks.

Been looking for it.

>> No.27240049

>>27239332
>Dude, its 40k fluff - there's no such thing as a 100% accurate source.

I know that, but once in a while someone slaps an old, since then retconned piece (Chaos eternal and Khaine = Khorne comes to mind) or FFG and says "see, it's official, everything else's shit!"

>If someone thinks that way, WHY ARE YOU STILL TALKING TO THEM?!
>Again, WHY ARE YOU STILL TALKING TO THESE PEOPLE?!

It's always good to keep up with stuff, since different people pick up different bits of fluff. There's always a chance to change their minds or at least broaden it (even if they don't do it in the thread), or, if nothing else, stop others from falling for the same mindset.

>>27239391
>only the Studio material (rulebooks, codexes, army books and suchlike) was canonical in that is HAD to be adhered-to
>each author represents an “alternative” version of the respective worlds

>>27239691
Cronos is said to be "time-thief" yet life force and essence are words thrown around in its description. When ever this is done in C'tan fluff, it's always read as "souls". Dawn Blade cuts a persons life short and adds the natural lifespan to the wielder.

>> No.27240258

>>27240049
>Cronos is said to be "time-thief" yet life force and essence are words thrown around in its description. When ever this is done in C'tan fluff, it's always read as "souls"

The device that thing uses to drain people is called ''spirit siphon'' and its entry says that it feeds the Dark Eldar waves of spirit essence. Unless I am mistaken, Spirits equates to souls.

>Dawn Blade cuts a persons life short and adds the natural lifespan to the wielder.

Nothing about it implies souls or essences are being drained. Only time is stolen.

>> No.27240278

>>27240049
>I know that, but once in a while someone slaps an old, since then retconned piece (Chaos eternal and Khaine = Khorne comes to mind) or FFG and says "see, it's official, everything else's shit!"

>someone

It's the same person (though I think you may already know). Same posting style, and same arguments (sometimes even contradictory ones). You might also recognize him as a proponent of the Blood Feud, or the Blood Ravens being descended from the Black Legion because Abaddon says so (which he doesn't), or a big fan of Imotekh "the STORMLORD".

Most recently I believe he's taken to insisting that the Imperium has the strongest military the galaxy has ever seen ("Xenophiles never learn!"), based on one sentence in the Apocalypse book, and that Ghazghkull's Waaagh! is the greatest the galaxy has ever seen, based on what I assume is some similar sentence. Hard to say whether he's an extremely dedicated troll or just an idiot, but you know someone's a shitposter when they use a CS Goto novel to back up their argument, multiple times.

>> No.27240366

>>27240258
It not says for sure.

>> No.27240443

>>27240366
It's describing exactly how the device works. How are you not sure?

Also notice that life force is another name for souls. (>>27222496)

>> No.27240486

>>27219058
Brother-Captain Lucius of the Grey Knights

>> No.27240631

>>27239781

>> No.27240632

>>27240366
This may even be a case of classic GW coordination where the same term means different things to different writers.

Like how sorcery is just another name for psykers using psychic power. Wait, no, it's actively drawing upon Chaos for power and you don't even have to be a psyker to do it.

Or how in The Hunt for Voldorius, the Bloodtide:

- is a swarm of nanomachines that enters victims' bodies and makes them explode (hence the "blood tide" if it's done on enough people)
- turns into a person and asks Space Marines to kill it because it's tired of life
- can be destroyed by flamers.

Then in Codex: Grey Knights, written by the developer who first mentioned the Bloodtide, it:

- is an actual tide of daemonic blood controlled by the Lord of the Bloodtide Ka'jagga'nath
- turns people into murderous lunatics with no bodily explosion involved
- is banished by its Bloodthirster master's death.

>> No.27240765

>>27221546

He just comes back to life. It's already been solved earlier in the thread.

>> No.27240799

>>27224193
I so badly want a navel series about the newcrons akin to the Horus heresy. So much potential...

>> No.27240871

>>27240799
Nah, that would only enrage the Eldar crowd even more.

They are very sensitive. A bnovel about the glory days of the Necrons would put them on permanent bitch mode.

>> No.27240883

>>27240871
If you present it from both angles though.... Please?

>> No.27241003

>>27240883
It will work, but people won't buy it.

How cars about the War in Heaven when you have the Horus Hersey

>> No.27241177

>>27239174
>some guy on a forum quotes another guy on a different forum who claims another guy told him that
seems legit

>> No.27241814

>>27241177
Can you find a better source for Marc's "everything's official" claims?

>> No.27242666

>neckbeards pretending 40K canon isn't a steaming pile of self-contradicting retcons retconning retcons so clusterfucked and stretching out to forever even Tzeentch can't see the end of it a billion billion years

>mon visage quand

>> No.27242726

>>27241003
>How cars
>War in Heaven

This thread is now about how the different factions of the War in Heaven make their cars.
Kina like when we made toilets for every 40K faction.

>> No.27243353

>>27219280
Yo.

>>
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