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[ERROR] No.26748860 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

So why are there still voices on /tg/ that Tau are "evil"? The more I read about them the more obvious it is that it's the one normal, as in not batshit crazy race in the whole setting, capable of forgiveness and diplomacy and understanding.

They've actually allowed the damocles gulf crusade to retreat after getting their worlds exterminatused

>2013
>not rooting for Tau

>> No.26748888

>>26748860
>2013
>Rooting for the incomprehensibly naive weeaboo space commies

>> No.26748905

>>26748888
/thread

>> No.26748912

>>26748888
Who the fuck else are you supposed to root for? BIG BROTHER IS THE NICEST GUYS AROUND!


The correct answer is Orks.

>> No.26748929

>>26748912
No shit, look at any 40k thread, everyone roots for the orks, even people that dont play them

>> No.26749034

I kinda like how all the 40k races are generally antagonistic to one another in some way, no race is a confined to being completely good or bad

>> No.26749070

They're not 2Grimdark4CommonSense.

>> No.26749119

>>26749070
They are supposed to be grimdark by the fact that they ARE the "good guys", but would be considered the" bad guys" in most settings. Because "join or die" is nicer than "die". But neckbeard autists on both sides don't seem to understand that.

>> No.26749139

>>26748929
thats because the orks are the ones that dont have a stick up there collective asses. they have fucking FUN, the only other group that has fun is the rapemurder dark eldar, and that doesnt count because they have fun by torturing puppies to death

>> No.26749155

People very quickly forget about the whole mind control and forced sterilisation thing

>> No.26749164

>>26748912

>> No.26749175

>>26749155
>forced sterilisation

not even canon

>mind control

pheromones don't really qualify as mind control

>> No.26749185

>>26749119

well they aren't bad whichever way I look at them, they're nice to others, always try to cooperate before they fight and the ideology isn't too bad either though I still dont understand how the castes work for other races

never heard of a tau exterminatus or firing squads or genocide if they do that shit someone enlighten me

you people seem to think anything other than "20th century america" is automatically a villain

>> No.26749213

Well, taking over the entire Vespid race using mind-control helmets the Ethereals magically got (and won't explain to the Earth Caste) isn't a good sign, and mentions in Xenology give some nasty hints. Also, in their vidya appearances, some firing squads, forced sterilization, concentration camps, etc, show up.

>> No.26749215

>>26748860
yet they ae still evil. They are just the least evil faction of 40k

>> No.26749222

>>26748860
The tau are nowhere near "good"
They are subversive, manipulative assholes who have only just popped up on the galactic scene according to the time scale of the 40k universe

The only thing remotely good about them is that they haven't been around for long enough nor are they big enough to face the real issues that most of the races have faced which lead to them being massive dickbags because they universe has shat on them to the degree that it is the normal response to any outsiders

Should the time period actually go any further in 40k we would probably see them becoming massive fuckwads like the rest of the 40k races

Or they would be raped to annihilation by whichever force decides they are sick of their blue communist shit / are fucking tasty / are good for murderfucking / fighting

>> No.26749239

>>26749175
>not even canon

I see peple rail against this all the time but they can never say when or how it has been discounted.

>pheromones don't really qualify as mind control

Was referring to the Stingwing helmets, it's heavily implied but not outright stated in the codex that the leaders helmets employ mind control technology that was originally used to secure their help.

I actually quite like the darker elements of the Tau culture, the idea that beyond the surface things aren't all roses and sunshine for them was part of the appeal, it's why I'm guilding a squad of fire warriors as I type this.

>> No.26749249

>>26749239

>They're assholes but I'm going to ignore it because of reasons

>> No.26749254

Everyone's calling the Tau communist. They aren't communist, you can't have a rigid, heirarchical caste system in a communist society.

They might be socialist, depending on whether the empire owns the means of production in commons.

>> No.26749289

>>26749185
The tau lack the technology to exterminatus anything

They mind control the "lesser" races like vespids with their helmets, pheromones and aggressive indoctrination. They execute people who refuse are "subversive" sterilize planetary populations so that the numbers are controllable, execute soldiers who join them ( to be fair I would too because any assholes who turn traitor mid battle are not trustable ) and generally are all around blue supremacists

The ethereals are the only reason their race is actually like this though because the fire cast would have murdered all other castes before the ethereals appeared and unified the tau. The water, air and earth castes were beaten rather easily

>> No.26749294

>>26749254
I think Utilitarian's the one you want.

>> No.26749304

>>26749289
except like none of that is canon.

>> No.26749316

>>26749294

I agree. Another reason to like their fluff I guess? The dark side of utilitarianism played out in space opera.

>> No.26749329

>>26749304
Well, most of it is. Mind controlling the vespid isn't explictly stated, but is heavily implied; the execution is DoW Canon, which some people argue with but is as canon as most of BL; the Ethereals stopping the Fire Caste from wiping everyone else out is slightly overstated, as the proto-earth caste were heavily fortified and could have made an even fight of it.

>> No.26749342

>>26749316
Yeah, that's what I like. For every light hearted 'It would be better overall if...' there's a 'It was eliminated for the Greater Good.' They are Utilitarian - their greatest maxim is the summation of Utilitarianism.

>> No.26749366

>>26749342
Yep. "Blue Space Utilitarians" doesn't have the same ring, though.

>> No.26749370

>>26749304
According to GW the actions of the races in the DoW games are canon

The fire caste wiping the others out was actually from their codex for their history

>>26749329
The earth were dug in but they knew they were screwed, they had all their hopes on that fortress and if it fell the fire were going to rape everything and it looked like they were going to fall.

>> No.26749376

>>26749175
I do believe there was partial sterilization of human population of some worlds in the current codex.

>> No.26749377

>>26749289
Mate, didn't they also (by heavy implication) unleash a virus on literally the first alien race they met, kill almost exactly half of them and then claim the planet as the sept of Bork'an? They could've left the disease to it for the same ends as a virus bomb - an exterminatus, but admittedly it differs in that the planet was useable afterward because of the differences in biology.

>> No.26749381

>>26749370
I may be remembering that section wrongly, but either way, it's canon. I'm not saying the Ethereals didn't stop the war and save many blueberry lives, just that IIRC the Fire Caste weren't set up as an autowin.

>> No.26749384

>>26749222
>Good for murderfucking
Woah woah woah... We only wanted to see what Grotesques would look like in blue. And we HELPED them. That's good right?

Dark Eldar for least evil faction of 40k!

>> No.26749389

>>26749377
That isn't really exterminatus since exterminatus reduces the planet to a burnt rock in almost all cases

Planetary genocide is what their virus bombs were

>> No.26749390

>>26749366
Aye. Shame really.

>> No.26749408

>>26749384
And can you guys honestly say some of your people didn't hit it first? We know what you guys are like

>>26749381
It wasn't an auto win but it was rather implied to be very much the fires favor and the only reason the earth were actually holding out against them was they had such a good position

The fallout either way would have meant that the future castes were going to be essentially destroyed regardless of who won

>> No.26749412

>>26749377
IIRC, several methods of Exterminatus leave the planet (eventually) reusable as well. Virus-bombing, for example.

>>26749389
Exterminatus is just planetary genocide. The definition of Exterminatus doesn't include actual planetary destruction; that's highly unusual, as a matter of fact. Most methods just are major bombardment using unconventional munitions. Virus-bombing, cyclonic torpedoes, etc. don't necessarily blow the whole planet up.

>> No.26749419

>>26749384
Murderfuckers.
I bet you even fuck a grotesque with a baby as a condom.

>> No.26749420

>>26749389
Mmn, still it was a similar (or even improved) end result as they had acquired:
- A usable planet
- A subjugate race that no longer had the manpower to overthrow them
-A source of leverage if they try anything.
I'd say that beats 'Nuke the fucker'.

>> No.26749423

>>26749254
They're tiny utilitarian imperialists - my favorite characterization of them is that they're shouldering the blue man's burden to bring the light of the Greater Good out into the dark jungles of the rest of the galaxy. And by jove they'll civilize those savages, even if they have to shoot them all dead to do it!

>> No.26749429

>>26749412
Yeah that's what I was going for. I'd say the Tau have exterminatus pinned.

>> No.26749433

>>26749215
>Not Orks
Uhuh, sure.

>> No.26749443

>>26749423
Yep. And you can even have fun playing with firing lines and wiping out everything up to medium tanks with massed volley fire!

>> No.26749447

>>26749412
Almost every example I have seen of exterminatus is the fuck you burnt rock version

Even virus bombs generally reduce whatever is on the planet to flammable sludge which is then ignited from what I have seen

One of the few alternatives was called something like the life eater or something which destroyed everything then ate itself leaving nothing but fertile land behind.
And then a modified version of that was hijacked by Nurgle to convert planets to gigantic plague monsters so they stopped using it as much

While they mostly do not crack a planet they will devastate almost everything bigger than an anthill in any kind of exterminatus

>> No.26749449

The best thing that could happen to the 40k universe is for the Tyranids to eat everyone. They are all terrible people.

>> No.26749461

>>26749449
What about the common citizens on agri-worlds?

>> No.26749469

>>26749461
evil!
Eeerrrrrvil!

>> No.26749477

>>26749461
The worst of the bunch.

>> No.26749486

>>26749443
Imperialism, jingoistic assumptions of being more equal than everyone else in the Empire, barely holding together a coalition of different technologically inferior races, but allowing them to get arms so they can enforce the empire's will on their own people - but the blue man is really in charge. Yeah, the Tau Empire is basically Space British Empire.

>> No.26749487

>>26749447
I'm just saying that planetary genocide= exterminatus. I don't see what you're saying the difference is. In both, all (or almost all) living beings on the planet are dead, this often correlated with heavy damage to the planetary surface that is eventually reclaimable/recolonizable. I don't see what you're saying the difference between, say, Tallarn and Bork'an are.

>> No.26749503

>>26749486
>jingoistic assumptions of being more equal
why are there so many dumb fucks on 4chan...

>> No.26749507

>>26749461
Probably adulterers, the scum

>> No.26749518

>>26749408
>>26749419
To be fair, they were a cultural exchange given to us. It's not our fault the silly blueberries didn't know what our culture is like. Then the little sneaks tried to cheat us, so we took a whole planet. We're the victims here, really!

>> No.26749522

>>26749487
And I am saying there is a rather noticeable difference between "killing most the population" and "utterly destroying anything on the planet that has the gall to be bigger than an anthill and not worshipping whichever god the ship in orbit wants you to"

For one the tau way is rather gentler overall if slower and possibly hideous if the virus causes something like melting, shitting your insides out or bleeding from everything

>> No.26749535

>>26749486

the british empire was the pinnacle of civilization really - it all went to shit afterwards

>> No.26749536

>>26749503
I'm not SJW'ing it up here - I actually like the Blue Space Brits depicted that way.

>> No.26749560

Hypothetically, there might be a planet that inhabits a variety of many races and species who, although against their nature, manage to live peaceful on their own will, but have found out, that militarism is the best valve to vent off their rage and protect their home against the miserable warp and milky way.

>> No.26749602

I would go for the greater good any time over the Xenophic religious barbaric fanatics.

>> No.26749629

>>26749602
this.
Still not loving the spanish rapeingquisition

>> No.26749664

>>26749602
I'll be with the godless hedonists living for the next thing that can actually make them get it up instead of both

At least life would be interesting as far as it went

>> No.26749685

>>26749664
I would go for the feeling total superiority and self confidence, feeling unfalable even in the face of defeat, also long life and ascesis.

>> No.26749709

>Orks outsmarting Tau

>> No.26749723

>>26749709
To be fair, it's Farsight. A sword's been outsmarting him for years...

>> No.26749727

>>26749602
Why do you care so much? Why have you been appointed constant arbiter of Good and Evil? From an in-universe perspective, the Imperium merely Is. It is as much a staple as chaos (lowercase c), death, or capitalism. Good and evil must be written within the confines of that reality - and there are places to write them - but to write off what is supposed to be half a galaxy's worth of humans

>> No.26749728

>>26749423
>Victorian Tau

Please god tell me theres a conversation army somewhere someone made.

>> No.26749733

>>26749728
I want one, too.

>> No.26749737

>>26749709
Outsmarting people is for pansies who lack the sheer brutality, strength, balls and insanity to keep charging headlong into death until you win

Which is why the Orks don't rule the universe yet

>> No.26749757

Very easy.

Put the Tau in the Star Trek universe. They're even more evil than the Romulans.

Put the Tau in the Star Wars universe. They're even more evil than the Empire.

AND THE TAU ARE A TINY EMPIRE IN A TINY SECTION OF SPACE!

Can you imagine the EVIL they would unleash on the galaxy when they expand out that bubble and fully face the galactic terror everpresent in 40k?

Within no time, the Tau would be outclassing the Imperium in terms of being total evil fuckasses.

The Imperium became evil due to necessity.

The Tau haven't even begun their galactic conquest and their hands are already tainted by blood.

>> No.26749776

>>26749737
Come now, Orks can be cunning, and they can be brutal, they can be superstitious or they can be logical, they can be jovial and fun, or grim and serious. Orks are all the colors of the rainbow, painted green.

>> No.26749848

>>26749776
Orks generally don't outsmart people though
Like 90% of their race thinks WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH Is the only command worth giving, receiving or listening to

The other 10% are blood axes who are sneaky gits who use tactics

>> No.26749853

>>26749423
Don't you mean "nuke them all dead"?

The Tau and the Imperium conquer planets in the exact same way.

If the invasion fails, the Imperium exterminates your planet from orbit until the entire atmosphere is turned into an exploding ball of gas.

If the invasion fails, the Tau nuke your planet into a nuclear winter for thousands of years followed by a nuclear summer and after that your atmosphere still glows green.

>> No.26749863

>>26749848

ghazghkull is supposedly pretty smart for an ork, preffering to command rather than take to the frontlines

>> No.26749869

>>26749254
>you can't have a rigid, heirarchical caste system in a communist society
Yeah, tell it to the former USSR citizens.
Communist society shouldn't have rigid system IN THEORY, but in practice party functionaries was all but the rulling caste.

>> No.26749874

>>26749848
Well, the Imperial tactic against most Orks kind of prevents Orks from going all strategic. Which is a boon for the Imperium and very pleasurable to the Orks. A win-win situation for both.

Meanwhile, the Tau with their strategies and tactics basically force the Orks to come up with their own strategies and tactics, a process that is becoming pretty horrific for the Tau fast.

Because that just means commandos and mekboys leading the way.

>> No.26749895

>>26749869
The only thing that makes that practice "Communism" is the cargo cult trappings of Marx they retained. If you jettison those aesthetic touches in favor of explicit castes, there's nothing fucking communist about it; it's just another oligarchy. Not exactly distinct.

>> No.26749930

>>26749175
Sterilization of humans is well established canon, you little weaboo faggot.

>> No.26749946

>>26749175
>>mind control
>pheromones don't really qualify as mind control

But pheromones are EXACLTY mind control.

They influence how your mind works, they give the pheromone producer control over how your mind works.

IT IS BY DEFINITION AND IN REALITY THE ONLY MIND CONTROL THAT EXISTS!

>> No.26749959

>>26749848
The thing is, Orks are expected to do something. The vast majority of the galaxy that know of Orks expects them to be wild, berserk beasts that will rush you, screaming at the top of their lungs. It's not just a stereotype for Orks, it's their face, their calling card, just like you expect a Tyranid to eat you, you except an Ork to..well be an Ork. That is how Orks outsmart people, because the Orks capable of using tactics and outsmarting enemies understand the image they have and understand how to manipulate that image.

Whether it's pulling their forces back in a mock retreat, using stealth tactics, redirection, ambushes, or any other kind of tactics, which are basic for all the other races, but to Orks it's devastatingly effective. Anyone who doesn't know about Blood Axes or Ork tactics will fall for the trap, they will charge in after the fleeing Orks, they will not except Orks to skulk around in the shadows, or use a looted tank to get into the base, or any other plans. When it does happen it throws things off and instills confusion and fear, since it's something unexpected. Like the stories from Guardsmen about Ork kommandos and how mind numbingly terrifying they are. Even the greatest Ork hunters are afraid of clever Orks like Snikrot.

>> No.26749963

>>26749930
So what? Like it's something bad in the 40k universe. Sterilizing rebels and sending them to the work camp is the most kind fate they could hope. Be it someone else, those humans would be dead AT BEST.

>> No.26749987

>>26749963
The evil of the Tau is explained here.

>>26749757

>The Imperium became evil due to necessity.

>The Tau haven't even begun their galactic conquest and their hands are already tainted by blood.

>> No.26750003

>>26749946
>mind control
You mean, mind influence. They don't control you unless you think that a mass produced pheremone can puppet tau's every movmenet.

Which is exactly what propaganda and shit does, too, just more blatant about it.

>> No.26750004

>>26749946
Eh, I'm not that Anon, but it really depends. SOME pheremones are mind control. Some are merely emotion control

For example, some chemicals could make someone go insane and start killing everyone nearby. THAT is mind control

Some might just make you really angry. Thats not mind control, its emotion control. You can still choose to resist it/shake it off.

>> No.26750005

>>26749987
>>The Imperium became evil due to necessity.
Since when Humanity isn't evil by default?

>> No.26750008

>>26750003
Even beyond that, there's the literal mind-control helmets.

>> No.26750030

>>26749946
>More control.

Not really. They are pretty much all involuntary.

All stimulus influences how the brain works. I suppose you could say because the influence in this case is generally subconscious it's mind control, but that's a bit iffy.

Of course, it's 40k. None of it makes sense and you are a fucking stupid jackass for trying to discuss it. Every word that is supposed to explain things should be replaced with MAGIC.

>> No.26750047

>>26749139
Orks are also known to enjoy torturing people, they just aren't as imaginative about it. While DE tend to go for more esoteric forms of torture, Orks like to stick with the classics. Flaying people alive, tearing off limbs and burning people by applying red hot metal to their exposed flesh are all popular Orkish pastimes.
And that's just what the regular boys will do to you. Emperor have mercy on you if you get taken to a pain boy, they combine the average Ork's generalised cruelty with a sense of scientific curiosity.
Suffice it to say that the last thing you want when fighting orks is to be taken alive.

>> No.26750053

The Tau are an example of a new generation making it's way into a situation dominated by the old generation (even if they are all kind of on the same generation level, you get what I mean)

Everyone else knows what's what, except the Tyranid, but they don't give a shit. The other factions know the rules of the game and understand what they need to do to stay in the game. The Tau, however, are like the new players, who are still working on the rulebook. They don't know how everything works, but are still trying to get into the game, which means they will have to learn the rules on the go, which is a rough, messy method. Meanwhile the other races are dealing with these new, flashy upstarts trying to get in on the game.

This analogy kind of got out of hand, but I think I said what I wanted to say.

>> No.26750055

>>26750008
>vespids wear helmets
>but we don't understand their biology, there's no brain in their heads for some reason???
>THEY MUST BE MIND CONTROL HELMETS

That's exactly what the logic is behind the Imperium understanding of things.

>> No.26750073

>>26750055
When GW implies something, it's ALWAYS true.

It's 40k, a beer-and-pretzl wargame. It's not Shakespeare.

>> No.26750083

>>26750055
Someone hasn't read the codex

>> No.26750102

>>26750047
But in general Orks will just enslave you and make you build stuff for them, the only time Orks will torture people is when they are bored, and again, anyone could be on the wrong end of a bored Ork. They also like fight arenas.

If you're really lucky when captured by Orks, you will end up either as the pet of a Nob or Warboss, or the Warboss' human adviser.

>> No.26750117

>>26750003
Mind influence IS mind control. Quit being a retarded coward hiding in semantics. Influence is control.
>>26750004
Emotions are a FUNDAMENTAL part of your mind. Emotions are what drives the brain. Thoughts without emotions don't activate you to do something. Your point is completely invalid.
>>26750030
>Not really. They are pretty much all involuntary.
Now you're just being a retarded cunt who never paid attention to biology. Pheromones are involuntary in lower animals. We humans can't produce pheromones. True. But if an intelligent alien species could produce pheromones, they would be able to control their personal production of pheromones, and thus reach mind control.

>> No.26750172

One thing never mentioned is that Tau have no psykers. But what of all the other races in their empire? Hell what about the Vespid?

At what point does the Tau Empire experience a horrible enslaver plague? A chaos invasion. Exct. At this point would tau create a black ships program or just go full genocide?

>> No.26750218

>>26750172
They'd disbelieve it, try to find a scientific explanation/cure, and eventually end up going Necrontech.

>> No.26750244

>>26750172
The Tau have psyker allies, but they're basically intelligent psyker whales who can only use their psyker abilities to move themselves telekinetically.

You must realise that Orks, Humans and Eldar basically have the BEST psyker abilities in the galaxy.

Many alien psykers are one trick ponies, or have to use massive amounts of genetic engineering or cybernetics to get close to the level the big three Psyker races have.

Of course, the Tau are conquering many human fringe worlds, worlds where the Inquisition never had much control anyway.

The Tau will come to fear the enemy within soon.

Hell, years ago, I kickstarted a DH variant for the Tau here on /tg/. A game about battle-hardened black ops Tau commandos ordered by the higher-ups to destroy Chaos cults without breaking the concept of freedom of religion. So basically, you'd be raiding the Temple of Khorne because they're doing blood sacrifices while on the other side of the street your Ethereal is visiting the Temple of Tzeentch to strengthen the bonds between Tau and "Imperial" religions.

As Dark Heresy often ends in heresy, this variant game would often end in treachery. Either you learn too much and the Ethereals send your replacements out to kill you, or you make the switch yourself, and you start up some anti-Ethereal guerrilla movement.

>> No.26750269

>>26750244
I'd like to see how Tau handle witches popping up.

>> No.26750291

>>26750269
>I'd like to see how Tau handle witches popping up.
/人◕ ‿‿ ◕人\

>> No.26750312

Exterminating a world because someone there might know that daemons exist = AWWWWRIIIGHT
Mandatory vasectomy after 2nd (or if you get permit, 3rd) child = EEEEEEEVUL

Tau are most certainly expansionist, imperialist, and jingoistic bastards, but compared to the Imperium they are bleeding-heart liberals

>> No.26750322

>>26750005
I'm going to have to agree with this guy. The Horus Heresy series makes it abundantly clear that many of the planets conquered by the Imperium were already run by pretty nasty dudes. All that changed under Imperial rule is that the nasty dudes now had to answer to even nastier dudes.
Also throughout the course of the great crusade the fledgling Imperium routinely committed atrocities that the Tau would have trouble even comprehending. It could be said that the very existence of the World Eaters and Night Lords and the fact that the Emperor allowed them to continue existing constitutes an atrocity.
Even during the Unification Wars of Terra which preceded the Great Crusade the Emperor was doing bad shit. He unified Terra through the use of atomic warfare and the creation of the Thunder Warriors, unstable, genetically enhanced psychopaths who's altered genetics slowly killed them over time.

Long story short from it's very foundation the Imperium was already more evil than the Tau empire is currently. It was created through genocide and bloodshed and seeks to perpetuate further genocide and bloodshed. Genocide is a fundamental part of the Imperial Creed (Suffer Not The Alien To Live.)
Compared to the routine horrors of Imperial rule becoming a citizen of the Tau Empire would be like moving from the Soviet Union to America during the 1950s-60s.

>> No.26750335

>>26750117
>Mind influence IS mind control. Quit being a retarded coward hiding in semantics. Influence is control.

That's stupid. By that definition every advertisement ever made is mind control. Or most conversations.

>> No.26750353

>>26750244
>visiting a temple of Tzeentch

Oh wow

If they ever meet the wrong side of a black crusade, they'll be fucked. They barely survived an Imperial Crusade, and that was down to some Tyranid hive fleet

>>26750312
>liking the Tau
>forgiving the insane amounts of mind-controlling
Judging the imperium and the Tau by the same moral standards of today is pretty useless. The Tau would have just as much blood on their hands if they didn't use mind-control.

>> No.26750358

>>26750102
True, but the problem is that Orks get bored very easily when not in combat.
Still a smart enough and lucky enough person should be able to avoid ending up on the wrong side of a bored Ork.
And there's always the hope of escape.

>> No.26750389

>>26750244
might wana add tyranids to that.

wait thats every race cept tau & crons

>> No.26750401

>>26750291
The Imperium already has Magical Girls. They're called Sisters of Battle.

>Vandire was Kyubey.

>> No.26750407

>>26750358
Well the Ork boredom priority goes like this
Get into a fight with another Ork>Go ride around on your bike or trukk>Go play bloodbowl>Go to the arena>Go mess around in the Mek's scrap yard>Go eat and get drunk>Go listen or help make musik>Kick around some Runts>Bully some runts>Kill some runts>Watch other runts bully runts>Go mess with human slaves>Offer to help the Mek build stuff>Clean yourself of parasites and food in your teeth>Chew on something chewy and stare at nothing in particular>Mess around with your gear>Sleep>Muck about

There are usually a lot more entertaining things before the human slaves to keep an Ork sated.

>> No.26750411

>>26749757

>Put the Tau in the Star Trek universe. They're even more evil than the Romulans.

no they're not they're just a very calm diplomatic expansionist empire like every other race in the star trek galaxy

>Put the Tau in the Star Wars universe. They're even more evil than the Empire.

mass alien genocide? destroying planets? rampant abuse of power?

yeah, no.

>> No.26750428

They're basically everything the West sees in (and despises about) Asians.

>smaller stature, physically weaker
>collectivist and devoid of individual thought
>flat-faced, arr rook same
>naive and ignorant
>soft spoken and reserved
>arrogant and self-righteous
>convinced of their superiority
>talk like Japs, evoking WW2 imagery
>short-lived and inferior

>> No.26750431

>>26749987
If the Tau weren't in the 40K universe, it's highly likely they wouldn't be as dickish as they are here.

The Imperium would be. Eldar would be, so would all other factions.

Only the Tau would even try to be better.

>> No.26750434

>>26748860
The new dex made them make a bit more sense.

They're a bit fucked up but I'd still rather live under them than the squalor and oppression of the Imperium.

>> No.26750443

>>26750353
>If they ever meet the wrong side of a black crusade
The "wrong side" would be the other side of the galaxy actually.
Tau may have 99 problems, but Abbadon isn't one.

>> No.26750451

>>26750431
I don't know about all of that. If heresy wasn't a real risk, I doubt the Inquisition would be near as bad, and if there weren't Tyranids and all to threaten Craftworlds the Eldar wouldn't sacrifice others to them just for fun.

>> No.26750454

>>26750073

When GW implies something, it's because they don't want commit to an idea because it benefits them to keep a fluid lore that's easily modifiable by their audience.

>> No.26750463

>>26750443
Would you mind posting that map without the arrows? I'd be very grateful.

>> No.26750466

>>26750428
>>all true

But you forgot
>>terrible pilots and drivers

Tau vehicles should become immobilized on a 1 at the end of their movement. A 1 or 2 if they go Flat Out

>> No.26750470

>>26750451
>I don't know about all of that.
Read HH books - Imperium was pretty evil even before the Heresy

>> No.26750473

>>26750431
That's fucking wrong.

The Tau have hardly even faced the evil of the galaxy and they're already fucked up beyond belief.

>> No.26750484

>>26750443
Abaddon doesn't need to lead Black Crusades. Anyone with the Glory of all Four Chaos gods can lead a Black Crusade. And there's a Chaos rift right next to the Tau Empire.

>> No.26750492

>>26750470
Evil, yes. Expansionist, yes. But a major part of that was because of the things that exist in the universe. For example, the Inquisition didn't exist then. The mass worship and extreme stagnation didn't exist. There was art and poetry that weren't all about war and sacrifice.I'm not arguing that the Imperium wouldn't be a bad-guy empire outside of the Warhammer-Verse, but they wouldn't be as extreme as they are by any means.

>> No.26750494

>>26750463
Sure.

>> No.26750497

>>26750431
>If the Tau weren't in the 40K universe, it's highly likely they wouldn't be as dickish as they are here.
>The Imperium would be. Eldar would be, so would all other factions.
>Only the Tau would even try to be better.

That's so much fucking fanboyism... and blatant ignorance to the fluff.

It's like the DoW days all over again with fucking /v/ Tau fanboys all over the place.

>> No.26750498

>chaos universally acknowledged as evil
>at the end of the day, everyone is out to destroy chaos
>new race enters the game
>naive chants of "for the greater good" lure in the unsuspecting
>in actuality wind up spreading untold oppression and death throughout the universe under the guise of utilitarianism, even cheered on by those who may well be their next victims

>> No.26750499

>>26750451
If Heresy wasn't a real risk, Imperium would celebrate that there wasn't anything left to stop them genociding every other species in the galaxy apart from them.

Yeah, such saints without Chaos influence.

Eldar.. might not be so bad, admittedly. But, yeah, Tau and possibly Eldar would likely be much less forced to acts of desperation if they weren't stuck in a crapsack world.

>> No.26750503

>>26750494
Gracias!

>> No.26750508

>>26750428
Japan has a longer average lifespan than America. Probably also a higher literacy rate.
North Korea can go die in a fire though.

Also I imagine that this is what the invention of the Tau was like. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaUV25Ezf5A

>> No.26750517

>>26750322
You're forgetting that the Imperium is build on the ruins of the Dark Age of Technology.

The Imperium is evil by necessity for the exact reasons you summed up.

If the Imperium hadn't been evil, mankind would be extinct.

>> No.26750520

>>26750335
>That's stupid. By that definition every advertisement ever made is mind control. Or most conversations.

Congratulations, now you can see the world for what it really is. Fucking slowpoke.

>> No.26750524

>>26750498
>at the end of the day, everyone is out to destroy chaos
Orks don't give a grot's hind leg about Chaos.

>> No.26750525 [SPOILER] 

>>26748912
>Who the fuck else are you supposed to root for?

The Emperor, of course. Everything else is heresy.

>> No.26750526

>>26750411
>>Put the Tau in the Star Trek universe. They're even more evil than the Romulans.
>no they're not they're just a very calm diplomatic expansionist empire like every other race in the star trek galaxy
>>Put the Tau in the Star Wars universe. They're even more evil than the Empire.
>mass alien genocide? destroying planets? rampant abuse of power?
>yeah, no.

You're already forgetting the fact that the Tau nuke every planet they can't conquer into the stone age?

>> No.26750529

someone should write a book about those early attempts by the tau to civilize and strike a deal with the orks, I think that would make an entertaining read

>> No.26750536

>>26750497
Please go ahead and tell us how it's wrong, then.

>> No.26750538

>>26750525

but he's a huge asshole

>> No.26750541

>>26750484
All Black Crusades were launched from the Eyes of Terror and aimed (more or less directly) against the Imperium. If the tau have to deal with an chaotic invasion, it would be "just" that : a chaotic invasion, not a black crusade. Except if they happen to have a shiny toy Abbadon would want.

>> No.26750553

>>26750497
A key tenant of the Imperial Creed is to suffer not the alien to live. The annihilation of all non-human sapient life is a fundamental part of all imperial beliefs.

>> No.26750558

>>26750526
>You're already forgetting the fact that the Tau nuke every planet they can't conquer into the stone age?
Look up the term Base Delta Zero sometime, will you?

>> No.26750565

>>26750541
The Tau seem to deal with Waaagh!s more than Chaos invasions.

>> No.26750568

>>26749737
>Outsmarting people is for pansies who lack the sheer brutality

Ya dumb grot! Orks is BOTH cunning an' brutal! Just like Gork, who's cunnin' but brutal, an' Mork, who's brutal but cunnin'.

Or is it da other way 'round.

Now my 'ead hurts...

Where's me dakka?! Dakka always clears me 'ead!

>> No.26750569

>>26750536
Everything about the Imperium is a reaction to outside influences, from past and present.

If aliens hadn't fucked everything up for humanity, the Dark age of Technology would have continued.

Mankind was defeating the Iron Man rebellion, until the Xenos and winds of Chaos started fucking shit up.

>> No.26750570

>>26750517
>You're forgetting that the Imperium is build on the ruins of the Dark Age of Technology.
Which was evil too, with humans opressing aliens, inteligent slave-robots under the boot of humanity fighting endless wars against eldar and orks. Just look on our history from stone axes to the world wars - it's endless stream of evil. Why should people of future be better than our ancestors?

>> No.26750571

>>26750484

>> No.26750578

>>26750553
>A key tenant of the Imperial Creed is to suffer not the alien to live. The annihilation of all non-human sapient life is a fundamental part of all imperial beliefs.

That creed is a post-Emperor creed.

>> No.26750592

>>26750553
And yet the Inquisition won't hesitate to use xeno mercs to do work for them. Plus if the RPG is counted, Rogue Traders can have xenos on their crew.

>> No.26750594

>>26750558
The Empire is lead by evil people. And causes evil.

The Tau Empire is lead by mysterious people who might be "good". Who cause evil.

The Tau Empire is more evil, because they don't even realize how evil they are.

>> No.26750604

Read between the lines.

For instance, in Tau 6ed it mentions how any race it subsumes that isn't of military importance mysteriously dies of a plague that doesn't affect the tau, and implies sterilization of human populations after the third generation of traitors.

>> No.26750608

>>26750570
>Which was evil too, with humans opressing aliens, inteligent slave-robots under the boot of humanity fighting endless wars against eldar and orks. Just look on our history from stone axes to the world wars - it's endless stream of evil. Why should people of future be better than our ancestors?

>DURR HUMANITY WAS THE MONSTERS AFTER ALL

Be banished to the TV Tropes, you fucking cancer cocksucker.

>> No.26750617 [SPOILER] 

>>26750538
Did you already forget about the heresy?

>> No.26750627

>>26750594
>The Empire is lead by evil people. And causes evil.
The Imperium is lead by old humans who understand that to keep the Imperium running they have to make some very very hard choices. It's not evil, it's what they view as necessary to keep the rusty, ramshackle train of the Imperium chugging along

>> No.26750650

>>26750517
DAoT ended because they had the bad idea of living in the same galaxy than the eldar.
Thinking that "Imperium is evil by necessity" is thinking like an imperial, that efficiency is being ruthless is efficient. Actually, most rebellion are nourished by the imperium shitty living conditions. If the Imperium was less shitty they would be less likely.
I'm not saying being nice is always the best way in 40k, some cases prevent a sweet and tolerant democracy (mostly psykers), but still, the Imperium is wrong. That pretty much what the Imperium is by the way, a regime born and living in fear.

>> No.26750694

>there are no good guys in 40k!

Do you guys even grimdark?

>> No.26750696

>typical Tau negotiation skills
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrHhS5IkRR0&list=PLegyzbptUKNztsFOJiUiHssocwlFJs7kQ&index=54

>> No.26750750

>>26750517
Exactly. I wasn't just saying that the Imperium was evil, I was saying that humanity was already all kinds of fucked up and evil long before the Imperium. I then went off on a tangent because I'm tired.
Warhammer 40k humanity represents the worst parts of humans as a species. They have our violence, intolerance and lust for power without any of our capacity for reason, compassion and mercy. They became the way they are now by necessity but that doesn't make them any less evil.
Humanity in the forty first millennium is a lost cause they let themselves be consumed by the darkness within so that they could survive the darkness without. The Tau still have a chance of defeating the darkness within, their fate is undecided because it hasn't happened yet. Eldrad himself mentioned that felt hopeful about the Tau, that they had the ability to overcome their flaws and become greater than those who preceded them. It won't be easy and it is by no means certain. But it's possible, and that's more than can be said for most.

>> No.26750757

>>26750594
>The Tau Empire is more evil, because they don't even realize how evil they are.
Incompetence and ignorance is worse than maliciousness, read all about it!

>>26750604
>These guys STILL keep trying to kill us, after three whole generations!
>Uhh... fuck, that's not good. Uh, should we kill them all? I don't feel really good about that, but..
>Eh. We're not monsters. Let's just make sure there aren't any more of em.

>any race it subsumes that isn't of military importance mysteriously dies of a plague that doesn't affect the tau
You'd assume with such biowarfare capabilities they'd be able to do something like wipe out all the humans with a plague, since there's so many fucking bastards out there. I mean, why bother sterilizing humans if YOU CAN PLAGUE DEATH people?

Get it together, man. Either they're genocidal (but not towards traitor humans who pose significant threats lol) or they're not.

>> No.26750788

>>26750757
>You'd assume with such biowarfare capabilities they'd be able to do something like wipe out all the humans with a plague
Hey, did you know that the Imperium has a weapon called a Virus Bomb? Boy, if they have that kind of weapon why dont they just drop it on all their enemies?

>> No.26750790

>>26750757
Because the humans are useful, as long as they're not rebelling? As long as they can keep the population manageable, the humans are worth keeping.

>> No.26750793

>>26750788
Why not just exterminatus everything? Because the Imperium clearly has that technology, too.

>> No.26750804

>>26750578
It was the Emperor himself who declared that humanity was to suffer not the alien to live. The extermination of all xenos - even those who posed no real threat to humanity - was a large part of the great crusade.

>> No.26750809

>>26750073
Shakespeare was also the Micheal Bay of his day, pandering to the lowest common denominator with sex, violence and fart jokes.

And people praise his works as high art. It's good stuff, certainly, but come on, really?

>> No.26750826

>>26748860
The tau are still just doing all those things in their own interest so they dont expend the bodies of their comparatively limited manpower.

When it suites them the tau are as evil as any other race.

>> No.26750830

>>26750793
Exactly, why bother with fighting, if theres any problems they should solve it with their most extreme weaponry, I mean they got it, why not use it?

>> No.26750835

>>26750604
Actually, the plague case happened ONCE. And it was the first time they encountered an alien species. Their is no >imply, except a discovery-of-america plague and a "they don't know what they are doing". Yes, they accidentally a whole race for real. If it was intentional we would have trace of chemical weapons at least in the fluff.
Don't remember any sterilization in the tau dex either, but I'm not sure of that one.

>> No.26750843

Mind control helmets for one.

I love tau and everything but they are plebs who are the equivalent of some asshole with a window planter box and a bucket of corn seed saying hes going to take down Monsanto.

>> No.26750852

>>26750788
Because it fucks up ALL life on the planet. It doesn't exclude humans.

If the Imperium had a "FUCK OVER EVERYONE BUT US" virus, do you really think they'd give two thoughts before hammering the "LAUNCH FUCK-BOMBS" button?

>>26750790
And all the other races are somehow utterly incapable of doing anything warfare related, so were genocided, right? They're not taxpayers or helping build stuff or anything and EVERY SINGLE RACE that they met is less competent in fighting than humans?

>> No.26750872

>>26750604
That happened to one (1) race. Plenty of the races which serve the Greater Good have no real military capability. The tau still find something for them to do.
Those water planet aliens for instance are very dextrous so they get the job of assembling delicate machinery.
Learn your lore.

>> No.26750873

>>26750830
A: Exterminatus requires time and orbital superiority, both things for which we (the players) are often fighting.
B: You don't want to Exterminatus a usable world; any defensive battles the Imperium can win are not Exterminatusable, and if they can't win, then they do use Exterminatus relatively frequently.
C: Same as B, except replace "usable world" with "relic or other vital objective"

>> No.26750880

>>26750835
Dawn of War, Dark Crusade.

After the humans stabbed the Tau in the back for the third generation, they just decided to put anti-breeding stuff in the water supplies and let them die of old age.

>> No.26750889

>>26750852
Than humans or tau, yes, pretty much. That, or as >>26750872 said, they keep most of them, only genociding the ones who are not valuable AND require military resources to subdue.

>> No.26750921

>>26750880
He claimed it was in the tau codex.
I know about this one AND I'm not gonna said it isn't canon (it is and isn't like everything). That said, to be honest, I have to precise that it was not stated but was, again, >imply.

>> No.26750943

>>26750889
Point is moot, anyway. It was one race that died from plague via being infected by the common cold or some shit.
See >>26750835
and >>26750872

You were wrong.

>> No.26750982

>>26750873
>Exterminatus relatively frequently.
No one use Exterminatus "frequently", not even the Imperium. Why waste a world forever when you can get it back later ? The Imperium have time (or think he have), they can always benefit of it later. Exception being full demonic invasion and tyranid since it's one of the case where the world is lost anyway.
They will kill every living souls somethime, yes, but exterminatus is not standard at all. When it's done repeatedly by Kryptman, it was a big deal.

>> No.26751020

>>26750627
I was referring to the Star Wars Empire there mate.

The Tau are even more evil than the Star Wars Empire, because at least the Empire dares to say "We're the evil guys, we are lead by the Sith".

The Tau are like the US government "We're the good guys! Freedom! Apple pie!" and then you wake up to a CIA agent plugging a bullet in your head because the NSA detected characters that might spell "terrorism" on your keyboard.

>> No.26751030

>>26750982
This, as much as /tg/ jokes about it, Exterminatus is literally the last option, and will only be used when there is no longer hope, and letting the planet fall into enemy hands would be worse than losing the planet completely. When Orks invade a planet, it is impossible to completely get rid of them, there will always be Orks on a planet that Orks have been on, and anything short of burning the planet itself will never stop the greenskins, but the Imperium does not glass every planet Orks are on or are taking.

>> No.26751032

>>26749518
hahahaha
NO!

>> No.26751033

>>26750750
>The Tau still have a chance of defeating the darkness within, their fate is undecided because it hasn't happened yet. Eldrad himself mentioned that felt hopeful about the Tau, that they had the ability to overcome their flaws and become greater than those who preceded them.

Eldrad is a fool, an idiot who hasn't looked at the history of the Tau, how unnatural it is.

How the only reason the Tau still exists, is the mindcontrol of the Ethereals, because the moment the Tau invented gunpowder, they automatically went into WW2 total war and genocide mode, and they were working hard at making themselves extinct.

>> No.26751036

>>26751020
Oh, my bad.

>> No.26751049

>>26750982
Meanwhile the Tau WILL nuke EVERY unconquerable planet to cinders and radioactive ash.

>> No.26751165

>>26751020
So... the US government in your eyes are worse than mass murderers because instead of indiscriminately killing everyone apart from themselves they kill a select few people in paranoia?

>> No.26751180

They're pretty evil by modern standards, but pretty mellow by 40K standards.

>> No.26751196

>>26749930
No, it's not

>>26749376
Nope.

>> No.26751203

>>26750497
I love how shitposters tend to accuse other people of being /v/ whenever they try to troll.

>> No.26751210

>>26750592
Rogue Traders are kinda, you know, ROGUE Traders. Their whole deal is that they don't follow the rules.

>> No.26751211

>>26749709
Orks outsrmart anyone from time to time.

Also did you miss the new fluff where Grog was killed by Farsight?

>> No.26751240

>>26751210
Of course they follow the rules. Their rules just happen to be that they can make rules if nobody else is around.

>> No.26751261

>>26751210

>> No.26751262

>>26751180
Is that a Sister?

Fucking Taufags went too far.

>> No.26751289

>>26751262
I figured it was just a guevesa who was wearing the fleur-de-lys without knowing its Imperial meaning since her planet has fallen out of true Emperor worship generations ago.

>> No.26751293

Can we all agree that Farsight is Lawful Good?

The only Lawful Good guy in the setting.

>> No.26751306

>>26751293
Chaotic Good. He whole deal is that he if fighting The Man and defying The Law.

>> No.26751332

>>26751289
>Gue'vesa wearing something Imperial

Picture related (>>26751261).

In the ''never seen again'' bin she goes!

>> No.26751379

>>26751306
While adhering his own law (his own version of the Greater Good) and the Fire Code.

Pretty Lawful to me.

>> No.26751399

>>26751332
Actually, tau let humans worship the Emperor and other aliens keep their religion as well, so long as it doesn't interfere with the Greater Good. Which means so long as they drop the ''Purge da xeno bit'', they can probably keep worshiping the Big E

Of course, the tau probably also slowly manipulate them into giving up that worship entirely over time by making Imperial icons utterly trivial. You know, like making a fleur-de-lys a cutesy little thing any girl paints on her face for funsies instead of something reserved for only the most devout servants of the Emperor.

>> No.26751408

>>26751379
CG is all about following your own honor code that doesn't adhere to greater society.

Kinda like Farsight.

>> No.26751425

>>26751261
Throw enough money at the right people, and nothing is against the rules.

>> No.26751428

>>26751379
>his own law

>definition of chaotic alignment

>> No.26751453

>>26751399
>Actually, tau let humans worship the Emperor and other aliens keep their religion as well, so long as it doesn't interfere with the Greater Good. Which means so long as they drop the ''Purge da xeno bit'', they can probably keep worshiping the Big E

That's so wrong. Imperial worship is banned under pain of imprisonment or being vanished. Anyone displaying Imperial allegiance will be taken into the night.

>> No.26751465

>>26751399
>so long as they drop the ''Purge da xeno bit'', they can probably keep worshiping the Big E

That's like saying you can still be a Christian without believing in Jesus.

Purging the xenos is at the core of worshiping the Emperor. Anything else would be heresy.

>> No.26751471

>>26751428
>>26751408
Never thought CG guys are into community building.

>> No.26751584

>>26748860
>little to no personal freedom
>no intercaste relations
>serve the state or you gonna get taken into the night
>your caste if your life, a fire caste member cannot be a builder, an earth caste member cannot be a merchant
>ethereals are born rulers, everyone else can suck it
>aliens are given a choice of joining, staying out of their way or dying
>aliens need to adopt the greater good and ethereal rule, and suppress their own culture (kroot cannibalism is frowned upon)
>use weapons and equipment that they know end up killing their users
>good soldiers are kept in stasis and taken out only when needed to fight for hundreds of years
>completely oblivious to all sorts of dangers and arrogant in thinking they're the hottest shit to hit the galaxy

Yeah, they truly are the heroes we deserve.

And what's this about forgiveness, diplomacy and understanding?

>> No.26751668

>>26751584
>>aliens are given a choice of joining, staying out of their way or dying

That sounds good actually.

>(kroot cannibalism is frowned upon)

Bit do they stop them from doing it?

>>use weapons and equipment that they know end up killing their users

But don't they give the users a choice of using the weapons dangerous functions?

>>good soldiers are kept in stasis and taken out only when needed to fight for hundreds of years

Only the commanders. Just 3 dudes.

Shadowsun, Kais, and Coldwind. I don't see how this is bad. The Tau needed heroes.

>> No.26751687

>>26751049
>Meanwhile the Tau WILL nuke EVERY unconquerable planet to cinders and radioactive ash.
Thats because they cave terraforming tech to turn radioactive shithole into paradise. Imperium once had one too, but the lost it like all good thech they had during Great Crusade

>> No.26751714

Go fap to your 99 tau waifus

>> No.26751722

>>26751668
>But don't they give the users a choice of using the weapons dangerous functions?
Tau expect to sacrifice themselves for a good reason. Pathfinders more so, as baing pathfinder is one of the most dangerous job in Tau military - most pathfinders expect to be KIA before they could feel any negative effects of Ion weapon radiation exposure.

>> No.26751732

>>26750047
>Torture
>Orks

They enslave yes, they brawl yes
but they don't do that crazy shit

Read a book nigger

>> No.26751740

>>26751714
So I was mistaken. Fair enough. I coulda sworn they let em keep just enough of their religion to use it to manipulate them, but looks like I was wrong.

>> No.26751758

>>26751732
The Orks make sport of their captives and slaves.

So yes, they torture.

>> No.26751767

>>26751668
Shadowsun the gorrilla took a CIVILIAN (hive) planet from humanity

They are litterally space invaders, the greater good is just another word for conquest

>> No.26751770

>>26751732
It's not something they're particularly known for, but they still do it. Ghazghkull himself released Yarrick after "weeks of inflicting idle torture".

>> No.26751778

>>26751714
>And it is the way of Grater Good toconvince oneself that they never existed at all.
OMG... Greater Good is Engsoc

>> No.26751785

>>26751714
Deathwatch and FFG in general are hilariously human-centric. Like how they go on and on about how human psykers are vastly more powerful than eldar psykers.

>> No.26751797

>>26751767
So?

The humans and Tau are at war since they met each other.

>> No.26751807

>>26751785
>Agure with popular belief stimulated only by waifus on /tg/ (you know it)
>Someone brings out cannon
>Uh...source is bad, not cannon enough
>Go back to wafius

Look I like torchstar too but the Tau are evil

>> No.26751833

>>26751807
Deathwatch also states that anyone who develops new technology in the Tau Empire gets disappeared, so their tech advances more slowly than Imperium tech.

Deathwatch is a shitty source.

>> No.26751849

>>26751165
>what is vietnam

they are, and never have been "good people"

>> No.26751850

>>26751807
Didn't GW discount FFG as canon in their ''Into the Citadel'' event?

Seen people talk about it here.

>> No.26751857

>>26751833
Deathwatch also have Rogal Dorn quote dated M41

>> No.26751859

>>26751833
Dude, why can't you execpt your (imanigary) waifu race isn't as good as the facade makes it?

You may as well say everything in DH and RT is bullshit
I consider the RP games much more cannon than the wargames, the RPgames NEED things to make sense

>> No.26751871

>>26751850
Ah, but you see, talking about 'cannon'. Totally different things.

>> No.26751873

>>26751668
>That sounds good actually.

So when nation X comes and tells you "either you join us or cease all activity we deem unfavorable to us, or we will eradicate you," they're being completely rational?

>Bit do they stop them from doing it?

Codex: Tau they Tau find their behavior repulsive and hope to amend their ways. In Chapter Approved Kroot merc list it's stated the Tau demand the Kroot to only serve the Tau, which would doom the race into stagnation.

Codex: Tau Empire says that the Kroot have learned to cease this behavior when around the Tau. And the Tau hope that in time they'll kick the habit.

>But don't they give the users a choice

Where does it say they're given a choice?

>Only the commanders. Just 3 dudes.

There's more than 3. The codex says many of puretide's best pupils were put into ice so they could live on.

>> No.26751874

>>26751807
> canon
FFG material isn't. And for good reason. Otherwise you would have no Craftworlds left, seeing as how Imperium ships in RT are vastly superior to Eldar ships, to the point that an Imperium fleet could easily crush even the best defended Craftworlds.

>> No.26751875

>>26751859
>consider the RP games much more cannon than the wargames
>>26751857
>Rogal Dorn quote dated M41

>> No.26751876

The fact they look innocent on the outside makes them much more grim dark on the inside

>> No.26751881

>>26748860
it's obvious that this "greater good" is just a tzeentch ruse to rustle everyones jimmies

>> No.26751885

>>26751871
* HE'S talking. Goddamn keyboard.

>> No.26751897

>>26751859
> Dude, why can't you execpt your (imanigary) waifu race isn't as good as the facade makes it?
Why can't you accept that the stuff you're quoting is bullshit? Oh wait, you can't bring yourself to contemplate that because it agrees with what you think and therefore must be right.

>> No.26751905

>>26749185
>Implying USA isn't a villain faction IRL

>> No.26751917

>>26751874
> FFG material isn't. And for good reason.
> Imperium ships in RT are vastly superior to Eldar ships

Not seeing a problem.

> an Imperium fleet could easily crush even the best defended Craftworlds.

Still not seeing a problem.

>> No.26751951

>>26751859
>the RPgames NEED things to make sense

Yet their fluff is as full of holes and inconsistencies as normal GW fluff.

>> No.26751968

>>26751873
>So when nation X comes and tells you "either you join us or cease all activity we deem unfavorable to us, or we will eradicate you," they're being completely rational?

Reasonable for 40K.

>Codex: Tau they Tau find their behavior repulsive and hope to amend their ways. In Chapter Approved Kroot merc list it's stated the Tau demand the Kroot to only serve the Tau, which would doom the race into stagnation.

It doesn't say they stop or hinder the the Kroot. The only condition is that they do it far from the Tau. The Tau don't force them to abaddon their ways at all, they just hope the Tau example would civilize the Kroot.

>it's stated the Tau demand the Kroot to only serve the Tau, which would doom the race into stagnation.

The oldest Tau codex claims that the Tau allow Kroot who don't wish to serve to leave and return to Pech. It doesn't bother them as long as Pech and the Kroot serve the Tau Empire.

>Where does it say they're given a choice?

The have a choice of engaging the weapons dangerous functions. Riptide pilots chooses to make his suit lethal t him. It's not lethal to him by default.

>> No.26751974

>>26751859
Dude, why is the Imperium your waifu?

>> No.26751975

Why is it that no one who looks for a "good guy" in 40k ever brings up the Craftworld Eldar?

They work with humans on a fairly regular basis. They are not above dealing with their darker kin (for the most part). They selflessly protect Exodite worlds. They sacrifice their very souls to bring about a way to destroy She Who Thirsts. They are the only ones really working to remove the Necron threat from the galaxy. They allow their members to come and go as they please, even to the point of allowing individuals to leave the Craftworld entirely if they so choose. Their entire purpose is aimed at the protection of their people, and have no interest in dominating the other races into the way of life.

If you want a "good guy" in 40k, the Craftworld Eldar are really the way to go.

Just ignore the fact that they would condemn an entire planet of silly mon-keigh to save just one Eldar... or better yet, understand that this is actually worth it.

>> No.26751989

>>26751975
Because /tg/ hates elves for no reason whatsoever.

>> No.26752005

>>26748860

The Tau are evil because their philosophy of only SORT OF being dicks and embracing technological progress will inevitably cause them to bring forth some hideous blight onto the galaxy which will only increase suffering.

Likely in the form of an iron-men style plague of rampant AIs seeing as they are pushing their technology pretty hard and have no qualms about machine intelligence.
Releasing a plague of daemons out of a warp-butthole is more unlikely given they're (un)lucky enough to be psychic blunts.

Also watch them enslave the Nicassar or some other psychic race entirely when their demand for true warp travel and FTL communication reaches a certain threshhold as they continue to recklessly push their borders outward.

>> No.26752006

>>26751975
Nope, the Necrons are the good guys, if you think about it.

They are a tragic beaten down oppressed who just want to be left alone. Always persecuted first bu the Old Ones and C'tan and then the Eldar.

They just want so peace and quiet and their old lands back.

>> No.26752012

>>26751989
If you're looking for a good guy in 40k, you already have bigger problems than liking elves.

>> No.26752025

>>26752006

Being oppressed doesn't make you a nice person.

>> No.26752033

>>26752006
Tyranids are the good guys when you think about it.

Everyone has a place in their hive fleets. Joining them will transform you into something far beyond your individual limitations. Nothing gets wasted. They alone have the power to pacify the entire galaxy... and beyond.

>> No.26752035

>>26752006
The Necrons are aiming for Galaxywide annihilation.
What they used to have was a small portion of the galaxy to call their own. They weren't persecuted, they attacked the old ones, they attacked the eldar, they tried as they try once again to do the same thing the humans want, annihilation of every member of every species that isn't yours.

>> No.26752037

>>26751975
Considering that the Imperium would gladly condemn an entire planet of poor humans to save just one wealthy human, that tendency doesn't actually make the Eldar any worse.

>> No.26752046

>>26752012
Farsight Enclave

There are good guys. Democratic and not Xenophobic. Fights against Orks and Chaos for the Greater Good of all.

So you guys are wrong. There are good guys in the setting and they are Tau.

>> No.26752050

>>26751989
Because /everyone/ hates elves for no reason whatsoever.

>> No.26752054

>>26751974
>implying I play IG
Orks dumbass

but people like it because they KINDA like mankind without bowing down to the alien overlords (God liberals just wiped the 50s away totally now huh?)

>> No.26752059

>>26752046
>not Xenophobic.
>Fights against Orks

>> No.26752063

>>26752006
>Codex: Necrons, 'In the Beginning'
>As time wore on, further strife came to the Necrontyr. As their territory grew ever wider and more diverse, the unity that had made them strong was eroded, and bitter wars were raged as entire realms fought to win independence. Ultimately, the Triarch – the ruling council of the Necrontyr – realised that the only hope of unity lay in conflict with an external enemy, but there were few who could prove a credible threat. Only the Old Ones, first of all the galaxy’s sentient life, were a prospective foe great enough to bind the Necrontyr to a common cause. Such a war was simplicity itself to justify, for the Necrontyr had ever rankled at the Old Ones’ refusal to share the secrets of eternal life. So did the Triarch declare war upon the Old Ones. At the same time, they offered amnesty to any secessionist dynasties who willingly returned to the fold. Thus lured by the spoils of victory and the promise of immortality, the separatist realms abandoned rebellion and the War in Heaven began.

>> No.26752074

>>26752054
Mmmm, delicious copypasta.

>> No.26752077

>>26751785
Except it is true
Human psykers have massive raw power, what they lack massively is control

An elder psyker will have maybe 1/5th of an alpha level psykers power but their control over it means they will utterly dominate most human psykers who run the risk of exploding their brains every time they so much as cough

Elder also use wraithbone, talismans and other defies that allow them to control the wap more and draw on it with far less danger of demons wearing them like a condom

Also the whole human eldar was came about because the eldar wanted humans to be subservient to them, the Emprah at the time went we can be equals or you can die and they said fuck you apes we aren't going to lose to you

The empire and emperor are at their base huge assholes, but everything the emperor did was for the advancement of humanity, he just knew he had to make terrible calls and commit massive atrocities to stop humans from tearing open a new eye of terror when enough of us started worshipping the chaos gods

To that end he tried wiping out all religion and we know where that got him

>> No.26752096

>>26752025
It justifies your actions.

>>26752033
Tyranids are beyond morality.

>>26752035
Nope, Necrons aim to restore peace and order in the galaxy. Plenty of Dynasty's have alien and human subjects living side by side with Necron guardians.

>They weren't persecuted, they attacked the old ones

The Old Ones refused to cure their cancer. That's a dickish move.

>What they used to have was a small portion of the galaxy to call their own.

Pretty sure the Codex says that the Necrons ruled most of the galaxy.

>> No.26752106

>>26752096
>It justifies your actions.

That would depend entirely on your actions in relation to the level of "oppression". You don't get to nuke a city because someone cut in front of you in a queue.

>> No.26752107

>>26752046
Farsight Enclave might be perfect good guys but they're also 8 kinds of mary sue. They're unbeatable, better than space marines, and can shrug off swarmlord like it's no big deal.

People think space marines or gk are mary sues but neither have jack fucking all on Farsight Enclave.

>> No.26752111

>>26752035
Nah. Newcrons are perfectly OK with enthralling and tithing some lesser species. Trazyn the Infinine currently have dozens of human worlds under his rule.

>> No.26752117

>>26752096
>Tyranids are beyond morality.

More proof that Tyranids are the true master race.

>> No.26752123

>>26752063
See?

It was Old One persecution of the Necrontyr which opened the way for the War in Heaven.

>> No.26752132

>>26752107
Farsight? Definitely.

Grey Knights? Maybe.

But Space Marines lost their sue status a while ago.

>> No.26752133

>>26751968
>It doesn't say they stop or hinder the the Kroot.

Yeah, they just "encourage" them to stop doing what they do and be civilized like they are, even if it'll doom their entire race.

>It doesn't bother them as long as Pech and the Kroot serve the Tau Empire.

Isn't that exactly what I said?

>It's not lethal to him by default.

Ion rifles have a radioactive power source which irradiates its user in a matter of months.

And the neural interface of battlesuits slowly drive their users insane.

>> No.26752153

>>26752123
>"SHARE YOUR SECRETS WITH US SO WE CAN CONQUER EVERYTHING EVEN EASIER"
>"What, no."
>persecution

>> No.26752154

>>26752074
>I disagree with this guy
>Better call what he writes copypasta

>> No.26752160

>>26752117
Just you wait until Ward gets his hands on them.

>> No.26752164

>>26752133
>Ion rifles have a radioactive power source which irradiates its user in a matter of months.
Only if you expose it to air, which you only need for superchaged mode.
And as was mentioned before, Pathfinders are mostly dead man walking anyway, as few of them could surviveve for more than teo or three campaighns

>> No.26752165

>>26752096
>being oppressed justifies your actions
So the Necrons are basically Serbia. Who cares if we're genociding Croats, Bosniaks, and Albanians, this land used to be ours a thousand years ago, and besides, we got shit on by the Ottomans so it's all good.

Only replaces Croats, Bosniaks, and Albanians with "current 40k races" and Ottomans with "Old Ones"

>> No.26752168

>>26752154
Nah, I have just totally seen that exact post before.

>> No.26752178

>>26752054
Whatever you say, IGfag.

>> No.26752190

>>26752154
>trail off and start blaming everything on liberals at the end
>thinks he deserves a real response
I thought /pol/ was supposed to be a containment board

>> No.26752201

>>26752106
Here is the level of oppression those poor necrons were suffering
>>26752063
That's right, those poor bastards weren't given everything they ever wanted in life so they decided all out war was the only solution.

>>26752077
Except that feeds his point exactly. Humans are the most powerful, humans know the most about psykers, humans have more control, remember we still have tigurius' feats. If Eldar have more control we would be able to see that somewhere on TT but clearly they don't as their best character still doesn't even know as many spells as the best Space marine.

From every example ever given Eldar Divination isn't even reliable. In Doom of Mymeara we have a random average IG commander who OUT DIVINES ELDAR using only his wits. Every single time we have seen farseers predicting something and acting to change it or use the strands of fate they are proven incompotent and inept. We literally have an entire fucking supplement dedicated to showing how fucking useless eldar psykers are.

What FFG and GW write is a massive HFY and TauFY setting wherein everyone else simply plays Saturday Morning Cartoon villain in rotating shifts and invariably loses by the end of the episode no matter what the good or bad guys are doing. Outmanuvering Eldar? Done. Moving Faster than them? Also done.

Being Eldar is being an immortal but losing any chance at being good at anything ever..3

>> No.26752207

>>26752165
>So the Necrons are basically Serbia. Who cares if we're genociding Croats, Bosniaks, and Albanians, this land used to be ours a thousand years ago, and besides, we got shit on by the Ottomans so it's all good.Only replaces Croats, Bosniaks, and Albanians with "current 40k races" and Ottomans with "Old Ones"
Saved to quotes file.

>> No.26752215

>>26752153
Had the Old Ones not persecuted the sickly Necrontyr and aided them, the Triach would have a hard time to justify the war. Necrontyr are not inherently evil. In fact, they are a people who hold honor above all. So they won't forget aid render unto them by others and will repay it in kind.

It was mostly the fault of the Old One for ignoring the pleas of a tortured race.

>> No.26752222

>>26751770
>"weeks of inflicting idle torture".
so Ghazghkull was torturing Yarrick by forcing him to do nothing?

>> No.26752223

>>26749895
Still, those are the 'communists' people think about when you say communism.

>> No.26752226

>>26752132
People hold draigo up at the epitome of terrible sue. I was merely pointing out that that really isn't true.

Space marines have lost a lot of conflicts, they might win more than lose but they're mostly doing alright.

>> No.26752227

>>26752160
Then we shall see his evil schemes come to fruition
Battlesuits that climb into Battlesuits to combine to drive bigger Battlesuits which combine to form a Titan

>> No.26752229

>>26752190
After Romney lost the election, the sheer butthurt was too much for one board to contain. So /pol/ spilled out onto the other boards, creating a /pol/-realspace overlay kind of like the Eye of Terror.

>> No.26752245

>These internal wars invariably follow the formalised codes that governed the ancient Necrontyr, leading to set piece battles with forces arranged and rules agreed in advance by the competitors. In times before biotransference, such events led to the slaughter of countless millions in a matter of days or weeks.

Would you trust these fucks with immortality?

>> No.26752271

>>26752245
>Would you trust these fucks with immortality?
Sure, they don't value their lives BECAUSE THEY DIE YOUNG ANYWAYS. Geve thhem at least moderate lifespan and cancer-prooof, not true immortality, and maybe they would value thir lives a bit more.

>> No.26752292

>>26752245
If they were given immortality and access to the Webway, the struggle of the Necrontyr race would cease. They would have finally been at peace.

Again, it's the fault of the Old Ones for jealously guarding their secrets.

>> No.26752295

>>26752077
The humans attacked Eldar because big E at the start of the Great Crusade dictated that all xenos perish no matter what.

Then the Emprah saw Eldar tech and wanted it for himself.

The current human Eldar conflict is a result of the Emperor's catch-all decree of death to xenos and the continued harassment of Imperial planets by the Dark kindred- who intentionally blame craftworld eldar and pirates.

Plus the 'empire' as you so call it is composed of completely individual craftworlds with no ties apart from common ancestry and race, each operates according to its own council and makes its own laws and alliances.

>> No.26752338

>>26752164
>Only if you expose it to air, which you only need for superchaged mode.

Nope, all firing modes expose the slab. And when it's depleted, you take it out and put a new one in. So you're handling a highly radioactive source with your unprotected hands.

>> No.26752339

>>26752292
So you're telling me that if I give every gangbanger and African would be dictator-butcher and every suicide bombing muslim $100,000,000.00 and a free American citizenship that they'd all stop being terrible people?

They were intentionally waging war simply because they could. If I demanded you give me all your money in the street because I thought I needed it more than you would you do it? If you didn't would I be able to claim that you were oppressing me?

>> No.26752340

>>26752229
TRUE

after the elections I'm seeing /pol/fags all over the place.

and they are multiplying exponentially

>> No.26752342

>>26751165
>implying the US doesn't indescriminantly kill hundreds of thousands of civilians ever year.

>> No.26752357

>>26752201
That is a fault of the writers
I always took how Abnett explained it to be how things were which actually follows exactly what I wrote.

That no one else at GW likes seeing Eldar be competent is something that really shits me too but they really are playing up the "dying remnants" as "useless space elves"

I never argued that GW and FFG don't have a hardon for HFY that even makes the threads that occasionally happen here seem tame but everywhere they mention eldar they go on about their greater control and using their powers to their full extent instead of brute forcing the warp to do what they want as the humans do

>> No.26752365

>>26751785
FFG says C'tan eat souls and can unleash Warp horrors and open up Warp Rifts.

I ain't mad though. This happens to help a theory of mine.

>> No.26752381

>>26752365
so they are like a real space daemon?

>> No.26752405

>>26752271
>>26752292
Or maybe their asshole rulers would just keep pitting their minions against each other - and everyone else. Because they're assholes.

>> No.26752407

>>26752381
Yes, just like the Eldar Gods (those guys walked openly in real space).

>> No.26752412

>>26752339
>So you're telling me that if I give every gangbanger and African would be dictator-butcher and every suicide bombing muslim $100,000,000.00 and a free American citizenship
Money and citizenship wouldnt solve thweir main problem, while longevity could solve Necrontyr main problem. They wage wars against each other because why the fuck not? You wold die painfully from cancer in next ten years anyway, so why dont die gloriously in epic battle?

>> No.26752416

>>26749449
Tyranids eat everyone.
No more 40k.
/40k

>> No.26752430

>>26749507
This

>> No.26752453

>>26752164
>Pathfinders are mostly dead man walking anyway

Now where have I heard that one before...

>> No.26752456

>>26752245
>Necrons played warhams with their own minions
No wonder theyre such a popular faction. They're just immortal fa/tg/uys, right down to the narcissism.

>> No.26752486

>>26752357
Here's the thing though. If I go out and say that human psykers have more power I can pull on a gorillion pieces of evidence. We can both agree on that.

If you say that Eldar have more fine control of their Psychic powers nobody can find any evidence of that. Meanwhile on Prospero pre-heresy there are waiters using psyhic powers in public. Tigurius had the fine control to use telepathy on the Hive Mind without it driving him insane. Abaddon in the most recent book uses his cadre of Tzeentchian sorcerers' abilities to divine shit to find all his artifacts. The best I can find for eldar psychic fine control is that they can control in what direction a naturally occurring substance grows. (The Path Series is clearly non-canon as if a single company of space marines could easily beat one of the 5 major craftworlds Eldar would be less than 1/10 the size of the tau in power levels as Tau are worth committing a dozen+ companies and still hold that shit off.)

>> No.26752488

>>26752405
The Silent King was a good ma...Necrontyr!

>>26752339
It was a small request for being of such infinite power and yet it was denied.

What the Old One's did was akin to spilling water on the ground in front of a thirsting people. They uplifted primitive races and granted them immortality while the Necrons had to watch and suffer.

There is no excuse to what the Old One's did and they got what they deserved in the end.

>> No.26752533

>>26752488
>They uplifted primitive races and granted them immortality

>granted them immortality

But they didn't. Hell, current background doesn't even mention the uplifting part.

>> No.26752568

>>26752533
>But they didn't.
Eldar have very long lifespan, Orks are downright biologically immortal.

>> No.26752577

>>26751778
ingsoc*

>> No.26752598

>>26752533
The Eldar were certainly immortal and were gifted with the secrets of the Webway.

Why them and not the Necrontyr? Prejudice much?

>> No.26752617

>>26752568
We have yet to see a 10,000 year old ork. Space marines are immortal but clearly not uplifted by the Old Ones for the war.
Eldar aren't immortal but simply have a long lifespan.

We don't even know if the Old Ones COULD grant others immortality.

The point is moot anyways as now that the necrons are immortal they're killing indiscriminately and carving out empires as large as they go rather than A) uplifting other races B) being nice at all.

>> No.26752626

>>26752486
Yes which is the fault of the writers

The only sources that I can actually draw on for the eldar being more in control are Abnett since in the Ravenor books he makes mention of Ravenor learning to control his powers much better after working with the eldar.

There are also DoW mentions to the effect and I am pretty sure something to the effect in the eldar codexes but given ward some time and they will be primitive bow wielding hippies who live in space trees compared to every other faction including the tau who will spontaneously mutate psykers while still being blunts

>> No.26752628

>>26752568
>Eldar have very long lifespan
+Reincarnation=Immortality

>> No.26752653

For some reason, I always imagined the atherials to be voiced by George Takei.
>oh my!

>> No.26752654

>>26752617
>Eldar aren't immortal but simply have a long lifespan.

The Eldar were granted long life span coupled with rebirth in the Warp. They count as immortal and they had no reason to fear death as the Necrontyr did.

>> No.26752658

>>26752617
>10,000 year old ork
Well, we know Snagrod was at least 3k year old when he confront Cantor, and for all we know Snagrod is still alive.

>> No.26752666

>>26752626
> DoW
You mean the series where Eldar psykers always lose and their future predictions never actually work? Because I'm not seeing how that's great evidence of Eldar being anything but inferior to humans, as usual.

>> No.26752709

>>26752568
>Orks are downright biologically immortal.

>As an Orkoid grows older, it sheds more spores. When an Orkoid dies, its body becomes a rich source of nutrition for its own surviving spores, and old Orkoids desert their communities to seek out the dank, shaded spots which favour breeding before they finally succumb to old age. It should be noted that the Orks, the largest and longest-lived species, rarely survive to more than thirty Terran years, although exceptional and powerful individuals live longer than lower ranking ones.

This is from the report on Orkoid biology in Gorkamorka, which was then abridged and featured in the 3rd edition codex, and referenced in the current one. Old, but I can't seem to find anything else; the natural lifespan of Orks isn't something that comes up a lot.

>> No.26752716

>>26752653
>Aun'shi strolls past Aun'vre T'akei
>T'akei : Oh my!

>> No.26752728

>>26752626
>Ravenor mentions being in more control after working with eldar
This could just mean that their teaching style suited him better or that he was able to manage more control out of himself. Correlation does not equal causation and we need to see evidence of ELDAR showing control, not Ravenor.

DoW Eldar are renowned for being inept failures of epic proportions. Or did you not play those games and see how bad they were.

>>26752628
Eldar can't reincarnate.

>> No.26752744

>>26752658
>Well, we know Snagrod was at least 3k year old when he confront Cantor

Wait, what. Source?

>> No.26752746

>>26751033
Which is better: to be born good? Or to overcome one's evil nature through great effort (and mindcontrol)?

>> No.26752747

>>26752728
>Eldar can't reincarnate.
Anymore. Bat they could before the Fall.

>> No.26752763

>>26752728
>Eldar can't reincarnate.

Yes, they can.

>> No.26752783

>>26752653
For me, its either Takei, Uncle from Jackie Chan Adventures, or Lo Pan.

>> No.26752792

>>26752666
Which is why I listed it with another source I wasn't sure of after the source that I definitely knew backed up my point

And their failure is rather irrelevant because Relics shining sue space marine chapter cannot ever lose one of their games even when it would actually make quite an interesting follow on like if the IG had won the last game or god forbid the Eldar winning anything

>> No.26752795

>>26752747
>>26752763
Not any more they can't.

Anyways, that makes humans immortal too as their shamans could reincarnate and the Permanents couldn't die either.

To my knowledge that isn't a gift of the Old Ones.

>> No.26752817

>>26752598
Didn't the Old Ones make the Eldar to help in the war with the Necrons?

>> No.26752827

>>26751033
>Eldrad is a fool, an idiot who hasn't looked at the history of the Tau, how unnatural it is.

Dude...Eldar farseer's can see the future and the past. If anyone is an idiot, it's YOU!

>> No.26752839

>>26752795
>Anyways, that makes humans immortal too
It was clearly stated than even in times when reincarnation was possible for humans (when Warp wasn't fucked up entirely), they don't retain any memories about their previousl lives, unlike Eldar

>> No.26752857

>>26752795
Humans were creations of the Old Ones (Unfinished though) like the Eldar. It's natural some of the Old One blessing which surface in humanity.

>>26752817

Yes, along with other races.

>> No.26752875

>>26752839
Whashisface the Perpetual remembers viking raids.
Shamans made the emperor because they realized that they were having trouble reincarnating properly.

That's pretty damn clear that they remember shit

>> No.26752890

>>26752857
Would surface*

>> No.26752895

>>26752875
>That's pretty damn clear that they remember shit
Thats because they were psykers. Ordinary humans don't remember shit.

>> No.26752901

>>26751425
This.

>> No.26752908

>>26752817
>Eventually even the Old Ones, legendary for their patience and implacability, became desperate. They manipulated life into new forms with an ever stronger link to the warp, desiring minions with the capability of channelling psychic power to defend themselves. They nurtured many potential warrior races, and there is speculation that these included the earliest Eldar, the Rashan, the K’nib, and many others. Millennia passed as their creations bore fruit and the C’tan extinguished yet more life from the galaxy.

>Yet even with the defeat of the Old Ones and the C’tan alike, the Silent King saw that the time of the Necrons was over – for the moment, at least. The mantle of galactic dominion would soon pass to the Eldar, a race who had fought alongside the Old Ones throughout the War in Heaven and had thus come to hate the Necrons and all their works. The Eldar had survived where the Old Ones had not and the Necrons, weakened during the overthrow of the C’tan, could not stand against them. Yet the Silent King knew that the time of the Eldar would pass, as did the time of all flesh.

Old codex and new respectively. They don't contradict each other of course, but any time the Old Ones are mentioned now, GW seem to be avoiding the idea that they engineered anyone.

>> No.26752919

>>26752839
The Emprah is a concentrated reincarnation of all those psykers who sacrificed themselves in ancient times, pooling all their powers and souls into one, making the Big E.

On topic, the Tau have their evil sides, like any 40k faction, but honestly, they are the least grimdark/evil at the moment. Maybe in the future that will change, but right now they're fucking saints compared to the competition, despite the possible mind-control and Blue Man's Burden crap.

>> No.26752923

>>26752857
Correct, we still don't know if it was possible to do as the Necrons demanded. As it was I wouldn't give it freely and I certainly wouldn't do anything someone who has plans for galactic xenocide and empire asks when they start demanding shit like immortality.

I don't give random hobos on the street my debit card and nobody calls me an oppressor. If that same hobo murdered me for not giving him my credit card people wouldn't call him a hero for standing up to an oppressor.

>> No.26752925

If you want a Good Guy of 40k you have to look to the Old Ones. it says a lot that they got mudered at the start of the setting.

>> No.26752973

>>26752925
Look closely enough and you see even bigger douchebags than all the surviving races combined

I say Orks are good guys, they do all their things because they enjoy it, no political reasons. No wanting wealth and power for the sake of wealth and power

They want everything because it is fun to have, fun to get and fun to lose

>> No.26752975

>>26752925
>If you want a Good Guy of 40k you have to look to the Old Ones
I mean those asshles, who are responed for Daemons infesting Warp, Necrontyr turned to necrons, ldar being arrogant pricks and Orks fighnin' everythin ghey see? It's good they die before they pulled even more disasters on poor Galaxy.

>> No.26753033

>>26752975
Actually Necrons are responsible for the creation of the Eldar and Orks as well as daemons in the warp.

Necrontyr became Necrons out of pure greed. Plain and simple.

>> No.26753056

>>26752908
Outer Reach doesn't shy away from calling the various races (Such as the Eldar) the creations and progeny of the Old Ones.

>> No.26753084

>>26753056
And then we get into the FFG argument again.

>> No.26753166

>>26752077
This is more true now than when the eldar needed to feel no fear from the warp. The dar now use fetters to contr their powers. The eldar then needed no constraints.

>> No.26753267

>>26752923
They refused to even talk about it or explain it to the Necrontyr.

>I don't give random hobos on the street my debit card and nobody calls me an oppressor. If that same hobo murdered me for not giving him my credit card people wouldn't call him a hero for standing up to an oppressor.

If he was a dying man in need of water, he wouldn't be blamed for killing you for not sharing your water.

Also, there is another group who were victims of the Old Ones. The C'tan.

The Old Ones cruelly imprisoned them inside stars and banished them to the edges to reality. The Old Ones keeo making enemies by stepping on people.

>> No.26753309

>>26753084
As long as FFG supports my theories, it's 100% canon.

Whatever it takes, anon!

>> No.26753779

>>26750401
...Does that make Sebastian Thor Madoka?

>>
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