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/tg/ - Traditional Games


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[ERROR] No.26605026 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Why do you play card games again?

>> No.26605040

>> No.26605050

Special Summon has always fucked over YGO. It's just even more apparent than it was in the past.

>> No.26605080

idunno, why do you post tiny pictures?

>> No.26605118

Because ATK isn't everything.

>> No.26605129

Mosquitobro here.
Not even I can read this shit.

>> No.26605151

>>26605129
Enlarge the images.

>> No.26605172

>>26605151
Text is still too damn small.

>> No.26605191

>>26605172
In the first picture you have one monster with 1800 attack value, then one with 1850, then one with 1900 and finally one with 2000.

In the second tiny image that monster on the right is a complete combination of all the effects of the monsters on the left.

>> No.26605192

>>26605129
>>26605151
>>26605172

They're fucking vanilla monsters.

Any YGO player worth his salt will recognize all these cards so it doesn't even matter.

La Jinn, Mechanical Chaser, Gemini Elf, Gene-Warped Warwolf.

I'll admit I had to zoom in for the second image, but BEWD, Thunder Nyan Nyan, Beast King Barb are staples. Moisture Creature and Gilford or Gearfried or whoever that is are head scratchers.

>> No.26605196

>Why do you play card games again?
To spend money every time there is a new set out so i can beat the shit out of all these idiots who don't.

>> No.26605226

>>26605118
That's fucking adorable.

>> No.26605267

>>26605040
>On your left: Four useful cards at the time of their releases but with some draw-back (Blue-Eyes a powerful 3000 ATK monster which requires 2 tributes; Nyan Nyan
Powerful 1900 ATK monster which was destroyed when controlling a non-LIGHT monster; Moisture Requires 2 or 3 tributes. If summoned with 3 tributes, destroys enemy's spell/trap cards; Gilford Requires 2 or 3 tributes. If summoned with 3 tributes, destroys enemy's monsters). On your right: One card released later that can do the same as those four, AT THE SAME TIME! with no draw-back! (Effect Can be summoned with no tributes with 1900 ATK. Can be summoned with 2 tributes with 3000 ATK. Can be summoned with 3 tributes to destroy all cards on your opponent's field.)

>> No.26605277

>play old six samurai
>then six samurai synchros come along

GLORIOUS NIPPON

>> No.26605282

oh yugioh....how i loved thee

seriously i LOVED this game and i just can't bring myself to play it anymore. the game just got ridiculous in the last few years and i couldn't bring myself to get back into it.

power creep was always an issue but i feel the way it's going now is a little bit better than in olden days where you HAD to have 3 gemini elves and 3 luster dragons or else your deck sucked because they were the only 1900 attack monsters. i love normal monsters but they are pretty....well, normal.

here's to vanilla!

>> No.26605318

>>26605267

ya...that's pretty bullshit, i just hate how it makes the older cards obsolete.

>> No.26605336

>>26605267
>implying anyone used Barbaros except with Skill Drain for a free 3000 beater.

>> No.26605396

Is YuGiOh the best example for power creep card games?

>> No.26605401

>Why do you play card games again?
Because, dare I say it, Magic has REVERSE power creep.

>> No.26605497

>>26605318

I'd hardly call Blue Eyes obsolete with new dragon cards letting you special summon dragons cards from anywhere for free nowadays.

>> No.26605500

>>26605401
Creatures got rather nasty in the last eight or so years, tho.

A lot of spells that had been banned for eons were also brought back...

>> No.26605508

>>26605497
You can summon better dragons than him.

>> No.26605528

>>26605396

M:tG Pokemon and YGO are all good examples.

Blastoise and Rain Dance used to be the most powerful deck when basic, jungle, and fossil were out. Now they reprinted Blastoise with MORE HP, MORE POWER, AND RAIN DANCE. And he's not even good.

>> No.26605538

>>26605528

M:tG and YGO creeped down actually. They banned a lot of shit and then reset the power creep meter. See Counterspell and I can't think of any YGO examples but just look at all the banned shit.

Pokemon blatantly keeps creeping up.

>> No.26605571

How are the fantasy flight LCGs on power creep, guys?

>> No.26605621

>>26605538
>That feel when playing Chaos Yatagarasu before it was banned.

So many tears. Most people I played with gave up when I used Painful Choice. They knew the Chaos Dragon was upon them.

>> No.26605631

>>26605571

If the Acolyte and Marine are both at the same XP, an Acolyte will shred a Space Marine to pieces, so they've got weird not-quite-powercreep going.

>> No.26605633

>>26605396
Nope

Chaotic

that game like lasted 3 years and had some of the greatest Power Creep I have ever seen

pic related

>> No.26605639

>>26605538
>YGO
>Creep down
I'm pretty sure that stuff like synchro summon beats a fusion or ritual deck every day.

Can't talk about XYXYXZZXXYXX, since i haven't played since those were released.

>>26605571
Nobody plays anything that isn't netrunner, and people were bitching about guaranteed wins with certain decks (Something like 66% win rate) on a thread just a few hours ago.

>> No.26605666

>>26605639

Nah. Cyberstein. Also HERO Beat wrecked shit for the longest time during the synchro era.

>> No.26605677

>>26605639
>bitching about a 66% win rate

Oh lawdy.

>> No.26605720

>>26605639
>netrunner
Yeah actually that thread still exists right now, seems to be calm now though.

>>26605677
It's 66% in 35 games.
Yeah right.

>> No.26605764

>>26605639
None of the Synchros or XYZs are anywhere near as broken as CED/Yatagarasu were.

>> No.26605813

>>26605026
because of semen covered gemini elf

>> No.26605855

>>26605813

>> No.26605864

>>26605855

>> No.26605884

>>26605040
I remember going to Walmart and stealing all the Beast King Barbaros' out of the Shonen Jumps.
I had upwards of 20 of them. I think I sold them all for around 5 or 6 dollars each.

>> No.26606112

Between the three main card games, Pokémon is definitely the biggest offender when it comes to power creep. At least YuGiOh and Magic have a bunch of card that would break the game if they were still legal. Every single old Pokémon card is a joke by today's standards.

Magic is simply more balanced than it used to be. Creatures are a lot better than they used to be, but they were pretty much unplayable back then. The fact that the two formats Wizards supports both rotate means that there is no need for them to surpass the cards printed last year.

YuGiOh doesn't enjoy the benefits of rotation like Magic does, so it relies on bannings to avoid power creep as much as possible. Like Magic, its monsters became a lot more powerful. Unlike Magic, there wasn't as much a need for that since even when they were much weaker, those monsters saw plenty of play.

>> No.26606205

>>26606112

Creatures were always good. They slowly increased from use. The decks started at as nearly zero creatures but shit like Ernham and Sligh made creatures usable then ever since then even control decks use weenies with great abilities like Dark Confidant etc. Standard is way too creature-centric, IMO.

>> No.26607097

>>26605040

>> No.26608186

>>26605633
>uncommon/rares in the beginning had a max of 2 elements and had shit stats/energy if they used elements
>later commons/uncommons/rares had 2-3 elements standard and excellent stats

sigh, what a game

>> No.26609226

>oh, you spent a bunch of money back when our game first started?
>haha what a chump I hope you enjoy buying our newer products because 90% of them are strictly better than the old shit we made!
>limit breaks everywhere!
>11~13k attack value new vanguards everywhere!

>> No.26609389

>>26609226

At least your old cards are shiny with good art.

>Sister Cookie

HNNG

>> No.26609508

>>26609389
ikr.

>combat nuns
hnngh!

But seriously though. The power creep is super apparent in this game. The game's only 3-4 years old, too. Remember how creatures became incredibly efficient only recently? Things like 2 mana for 2/2 with a few abilities slapped on?

It's like that in this game, except it happened within 3 years.

>> No.26609555

>>26609508
>Remember how creatures became incredibly efficient only recently?

In magic, I mean.

>> No.26609587

>>26609226
>>26609508
>that feel when Cardfight will probably die off in 2-4 years in the west

>> No.26609649

>>26609226
>>26609508

ELF nuns!

>> No.26609657

>>26609587
Or maybe it'll keep staying around.

If an unbalanced shitty game like YGO can stick around for so long, why not this one?

Either way, I don't mind. I'll just buy kawaii cards here and there for collection if the game does die off.

>> No.26609658

I play card games because my friend and I enjoy ... having fun.

>forgive me /tg/ for I have sinned

>> No.26609659

>>26609587

No it won't. Just take a look at Duel Masters!

Huehuehue

>> No.26609673

>>26609657

YGO is balanced. It just has high matchup disparity. You don't see people calling Street Fighter unbalanced because Dan exists.

>> No.26609698

>>26609659
I'm not sure if that's sarcasm or not.

Did Duel Masters die off or something?

>>26609673
That's good to know, I guess...?

I've never played YGO. Will never play it because I hated the card frame and art design.

>> No.26609766

>>26609657
It stays around because of good marketing. Notice that the Vanguard anime has followed suit.

>>26609673
That's because Dan is one out of a few examples in SF. In YGO, most of the examples just can't keep up.

>> No.26609835

>>26609766
>most of the examples just can't keep up.

Yes they can. You're just not trying hard enough. 3 Fiendish Chain 3 CED 3 IIW and most decks that were formally T1/2 but now "unplayable" due to being synchro based or too old or whatever now have a strong enough anti-meta presence to get at least a 40-50% matchup against 1 or 2 of the top 3 decks.

Just because not everyone is a S tier deck doesn't mean the game is unbalanced. It just means Konami likes to released retardedly overpowered decks.

>> No.26609895

>>26609835
Losing to the 'top tier' decks more than half of the time is not what I'd call balanced.

>> No.26609935

>>26609895

Stop playing a weak deck then. Plenty of fighting game characters lose most of their matchups by more than 50%.

>> No.26609947

>>26609895

The only games that have 50/50 balance are mirror matches and other equally balanced games. Even chess is imba because white goes first.

>> No.26609953

>>26609698
It did die and was dead for several years but came back last year as Kaijudo

Game is better than ever honestly.

>> No.26610040

The thing that's always killed card games for me is Ban Lists. I got so sick and tired of having to revise my YGO decks because some fag that lords over tournaments thought the cards in it were too strong.

I'm the kind of person that got ALL of his cards from trading. LITERALLY ALL of my cards - my first clump of YGO cards I got from trading a few MTG rares.

The only reason I still play MTG is because I don't play MTG tournaments and thankfully the MTG community doesn't (at least in my experience) enforce ban lists in strictly casual play.

>> No.26610098

>>26609835

The ban list balances the game, from what I've seen. It's not a good method for doing so.

>> No.26610176

>>26609673
Except historically Street Fighter has always been imbalanced. The only exception was SF1. ST, A2, A3, 2I, 3S, SF4, SSF4, AE, etc. there are defining top tiers that are better than the rest.

Even in card games like Magic or YGO, you will be hard-pressed to ever find a constructed format in their history that was ever balanced.

>> No.26610178

Pokemon is fucking insanely juiced, I can't even get a grip on what kind of deck to build.

I got curious when I passed by a clearance rack of old Pokemoncards, bought a deck for shits and gigs - get home and realize I have no one to play with, so I look up Pokemon TCG online.

This was like my third online match, and his deck moved so fast my head spun. By turn 3 he had 3 prize cards picked up, and I had not laid a finger on his precious EXUS PO KE MON

Fuck this game, I am never coming back with shit like this fagging up the place.

>> No.26610192

>>26609698

How can you comment on YGO's balance if you've never played it?

>> No.26610217

>>26610178
blame the japs being butthurt that they CHANGED THE META because western players beat them

this happened like 13 or so years ago

>> No.26610220

>>26610098

Magic does the same thing. If you don't introduce change and new concepts to the card pool it will grow stagnant and die.

>> No.26610245

>>26610178

The fuck are you talking about Pokemon is cheap as fuck. I play YGO and M:tG competitively and 40K and Pokemon is the cheapest out of all those, except maybe YGO. Drop 200-300, even 100-150 and you can get a good deck in Pokemon until it rotates out.

>> No.26610246

>>26610220

Magic has R+D, though, which I'm hard-pressed to claim that Konami has. And Standard to limit the card pool and curb things somewhat. YGO has no kind of boundaries.

>> No.26610256

>>26609947
Unless the game you play gives the player going second an astounding advantage or the deck involved is designed to be played second, the player going first in a mirror match usually has the advantage. I've seen tons of L5R games decided by the die roll the determines who goes first.

>> No.26610258

>>26610246

Konami has R&D. They are just fucking retarded. Have you seen the TCG exclusives they okay for release?

>> No.26610260

>>26610245

I think he meant how fast the game is.

>> No.26610271

>>26610256

M:tG is first turn doesn't draw, YGO is first turn doesn't attack.

>> No.26610272

>>26610040
Well, banlists aren't inherently a bad thing.

having the power to go "oh no, fuck that" and ban a card if it's actively harming the game is good. You don't want to just ban left and right, mind, but if a card is severely warping the game, it's better to ban that card and allow other decks to flourish.

Your real issue is that Yugioh bans cards left and fucking right.

>> No.26610279

>>26610217
I don't really know the story, what sort of changes did they make?

It isn't about a slow ramp and making snap decisions of who to recall/send out anymore from what I can see - it's NUKE HAND SHUFFLE NUKE NUKE

>> No.26610292

>>26610260

One energy per turn was way too slow anyway.

>> No.26610333

>>26610272

The actual problem is that the banlists aren't compotent.

>> No.26610343

>>26610256
This is why the Pokemon rule change that now allows supporters turn 1 is bad. It was a quite fair disadvantage to balance out getting to go first.

>> No.26610347

>>26610279

I think, as a result of western players beating them and the lack of time and space Japanese players had to practice, they amped up Basics and made EX cards so kids could win more easily.

>> No.26610365

>>26610258
That's because WotC and Konami approach their games in entirely different ways.

WotC looks at Magic like a cash cow: highly profitable, but they want to stretch that profit over time. They want to keep existing customers buying and happy, but also attract many new customers to keep things going. In this regard, they are doing a great job; Magic sales and tournament attendance are constantly rising over the past few years, and all but the neckbeardiest grognards are generally enjoying things.

Konami treats Yugioh like a bubble. They've never expected long-term gains from it, and they're making constant cashgrabs to try and sponge up as many dollars as they possibly can before their bloated product crashes and burns. They have no real interest in long-term viability.

>> No.26610385

>>26609673
By your logic Third Strike is a balance game despite the fact that Chun and Yun dominates tournaments and you have characters like Q and Hugo who for the love of god cannot win against those two characters.

>> No.26610405

>>26610333
I think the speed is a big component. Magic is usually slow to ban, waiting a while to see if the meta cooks up an answer to a dominant strategy; they don't like to jump the gun unless it's an EXTREME example, like Memory Jar.

On the other hand, Konami will pull the trigger on the ban really quickly. Hell, sometimes it feels PLANNED, like they released some busted-in-half bullshit card to sell packs, and then once they hit their sales target they ban it.

>> No.26610419

>>26610365
It's alos a shame that Konami's attitude toward YGO seems to have become the standard for eastern companies and TCGs

>> No.26610435

>>26610245
I was ready to scoop by the first round - how is that a good game?

I asked him if that was just the luckiest hand draw you can get and he said NO if he had more energies or some shit he could have nuked me for even more, no matter who I had standing in the way of the force of nature he played.

I think games should be won on how they're played more than the contents of the deck - closer to Netrunner, even though I know I'm going to catch shit for this. You can clone a deck, but the choices the Corp and the Runner make during the course of the game heavily effect the outcome. This pokemaniac I faced off against didn't give three shits what I had in my deck unless it was the exact same as his only with an electricity beater to counter his - that isn't fun, it's literally the most boring shit in the world.

>> No.26610440

>>26610333
>compotent

lol

>> No.26610441

>>26610405
Konami's take on the advanced format is essentially the same as Magic's standard. They get rid of old powerful archetypes and make new ones people have to buy in order to stay competitive.

>> No.26610452

>>26610272
The problem that I really had with the YGO ban list was the fact that you could use some cards, but only 1 or 2 of them, not a full playset. And you HAD to check the ban list online to know which were limited or outright banned. I'm fine with certain cards being outright banned, but limiting them like YGO does was fucking stupid. If a card actually said on it "limit 1 per deck." or something like that, then I'd be fine with it, but otherwise it's bullshit. I also hate card errata. I HATE HATE HATE card errata. And I don't mean I hate it when they change the phrasing of the card in errata to make sense with current rules (MTG does that all the time), I mean I hate it when abilities get errata-ed onto/off of cards or when the values on a card are errata-ed.

>> No.26610462

>>26610385

It is balanced. Look at how Makoto is 4th best char in JP but shit in NA.

>> No.26610483

>>26610452
There are cards limited to 1 because they're too fucking powerful.

Decks would become redundant.

>> No.26610485

>>26610441

Unfortunately there is no non-Advanced support for YGO. Traditional used to be big back in the day but the only decks you'd see are Cyberstein and Chaos Control.

>> No.26610513

>>26610452

Cards have gone back up to 2 and 3 from 1 and 2 all the time. I like it, it's like how video game devs balance a game fluidly and keep it alive.

>> No.26610556

>>26610441
Which wouldn't necessarily be bad, if the old archetypes still had a place.

With Magic, the 'old' Standard decks are displaced by rotation. The new sets come in, so the old set isn't Standard legal, but the cards can still be played in Modern, in Legacy, in Vintage, in Block, and casually.

Konami forces the older card to become obsolete by either printing cards that hose them so hard they become unplayable, or printing a new archetype so hilariously bullshit that it dwarfs the old. So while your old cards are legal, they're unplayable.

>> No.26610560

>>26610483
I know WHY they do it. I'd still rather they 100% ban a card that they think is OP instead of limiting it.

>>26610513
This doesn't help at all. Changing the limit back and forth is worse bullshit than limiting a card in the first place.

Ban it or don't, but limiting is fucking stupid.

>> No.26610577

>>26610560
>I know WHY they do it. I'd still rather they 100% ban a card that they think is OP instead of limiting it.

This could probably work for YGO. No more staples.

>> No.26610586

>>26610560
>rather they 100% ban a card that they think is OP
I will say this as someone who thinks Yugioh is one of the most poorly handled TCGs ever made:

I like the way they approach the 'Limited' thing, because some cards they design to be Limited from the get-go. Rather than using it as an emergency "oh god no" tool all the time, sometimes they use it to create new design space. "We can make this card better than normal, because it'll be Limited to 1 from the first day" is actually pretty neat.

>> No.26610588

>>26610560

It just shows how quickly YGO's metagame fluctuates.

>> No.26610590

>>26610462
I don't ever recall any US tierlist ranking Makoto low.

There isn't a single person in the US who will dispute that Makoto isn't top 5 in the game. The facts remain that Chun and Yun has dominated that fucking game for over 10 years because they are better than the rest.

Balance would imply there be 50/50 matchups across the board.

>> No.26610628

>>26610590

This was when I played 3S years ago before the PS3 and SFIV came out. Makoto was something like 8th in the US but 4th in JP.

>> No.26610641

>>26610590
>Balance would imply there be 50/50 matchups across the board.

This is impossible unless all the characters are identical.

Most of the games claiming close to 50/50 balance tend to be very boring and generic.

>> No.26610643

>>26610628
Looking at YGO makes me appreciate that MTG isn't utter shit.

>> No.26610666

>>26610628
So this was before youtube and social media took off? The same US that had Urien as unplayable before Tokido came over the US and showed everyone how bullshit he was in the 5v5.

>> No.26610667

>>26610586
Some game have mechanical keywords and/or symbols for that.

>> No.26610670

>>26610643

M:tG's art ever since Ravnica and onward is generic shit like 40K's current art. All generic and bland paintings.

Old M:tG art was the best. Same with the old goofy YGO art and the original Digimon card art.

>> No.26610677

>>26610641
That's the point I'm trying to make.

>> No.26610691

>>26610667
Sure sure, I'm not saying that it couldn't be HANDLED better.

I just think that the whole "we can make this one stronger ON PURPOSE" thing opens up more design space.

>> No.26610704

>>26610666

YouTube is older than you think, youngling, but yes, it was before any form of social media besides xanga and myspace.

>> No.26610712

>>26610667
>>26610691

Having a banlist is cleaner than having restrictions written on the card.

>> No.26610713

>>26605884
you little nigger

>> No.26610735

>>26610670
>Generic Shit
Time Spiral had the whole 'ruined world/timeportal riddled wasteland' aesthetic.

Lorwyn was bright and colorful, like storybook illustrations.

Shadowmoor was dark and twisted, a foul mirror of Lorwyn.

Alara had 5 demiplanes, each with a very distinguishable aesthetic to it.

Zendikar had the Hedrons and huge chunks of floating land, as well as the whole 'world of adventurers' aesthetic.

Mirrodin was, well, Mirrodin.

Innistrad was vaguely European.

Personally I think the art has still been fine. There's artists who they use a lot that I don't like, but overall I like the art.

>> No.26610739

>>26605026

I stopped for this exact reason.

Ironically it was WINNING at YGO that got me to quit for good.

I saw the Inzekter archtype and thought "oh cool, Kamen Riders" and slapped a deck together without any real thought. This was when they first came out.

I beat EVERYBODY with that slapdash deck. My hastily thrown together mess beat my professional friend's carefully crafted decks consistently, then it beat a bunch of other people I always lost against. It crushed the old standard Six Samurai at their own game and beat the shit out of anything except those cheap ass exodia decks without me even needing to work that hard.

It wasn't fun. I just picked up a bunch of cards I thought looked cool and because they just came out I beat everything that wasn't instantly updated or another Inzek deck.

>> No.26610758

>>26610739

Inzektors and most good new archetypes have inbuilt synergy that's why. As long as you had 3 of those important ones like the hornet and the dragonfly or whatever they were you'd win.

>> No.26610774

>>26610739

Six Samurais only bad matchups were the new shit like dino rabbit and inzektors.

>> No.26610782

>>26610704
Youtube was created in 2005. It didn't take off until like 2006. PS3 didn't become available by retail until late 2006. The example I gave was back in 2002 when Japan came over to the US for Evo.

>> No.26610817

>>26610758
I think that's his point.

Because of the inherent inbuilt synergy, at the stupid levels it was at, he was able to obliterate the older 'good' decks without having given much thought at all to his deck

>> No.26610851

>>26610817
>Konami in charge of letting players be creative and successful

>> No.26610895

>>26609226
Fucking break rides.
Fucking crossrides.
Also fucking perfect guards (although this one is a "why are you so fucking expensive)

So unhappy. At least budget goku kagero keeps winning me store credit in tournaments.

>> No.26610980

>>26610895
>Also fucking perfect guards (although this one is a "why are you so fucking expensive)

They're not THAT expensive. They go for like $10 a pop usually, and perfect guards for popular clans have been reprinted in new sets.

>So unhappy. At least budget goku kagero keeps winning me store credit in tournaments.
I think any deck would have a good chance at winning in this game. It's just the way it's designed (hurr winning out of nowhere because you flipped over a critical trigger twice, or staying alive for another turn because you flipped over a heal trigger)

>> No.26611033

>>26605026
>>26605040

What is this, a card game for ants?

>> No.26611038

>>26610712
The is a Unique(1 per deck) Personality from L5R. This guy is the current head of one of the player factions. He is one of the best personalities in his faction and often game changing when we comes out. He is far from broken because you can only have one copy of him in your 40 card dynasty deck. Any player of L5R knows that he is a one per deck because of the Unique keyword that he has.

>> No.26611078

>>26611038

That would require adding keywords to the cards which YGO does not do and for which I am thankful. Fuck M:tG's keywords. Anything beyond trample and flying and similar is retarded, especially when I will never see that keyword again after the block rotates and fails to matter in Eternal.

>> No.26611148

>>26611078
>>26611078
>fuck MTGs keywords
What's wrong with keywords? I'd rather read "protection from black" and not "cannot be damaged by black spells or black permanents. Cannot be enchanted by black Auras. Cannot be equipped by black Equipment. Cannot be blocked by black creatures. Cannot be the target of black spells or abilities from black sources".

One of the WORST things about Yugioh is that they refuse to keyword common shit.

>> No.26611150

>>26605196
Funny thing. I haven't bought new cards since GX started. I have an 80% win record against people who have well-built new decks.

I don't need the new cards because I know how to use the old ones. Dark Core, Creature Swap, Sakuretsu Armor, Magic Cylinder - old cards work wonders.

Using Syncro monsters forces your deck to contain weak cards for the sake of setup. If you don't have a lot of synchros, it's rare to have the right cards. I've not run into any XYZ monsters, but fuck those things.

My greatest moment was in a 4000 LP duel, having lost more than 3000, creature swapping a Kuriboh for a Five-Headed Dragon and winning. It's not usually on that scale, but it happens. Oh, you've pimped your monster? Thanks, I'll take it.

I wouldn't last a second in competitive dueling, but I play for fun.

>> No.26611234

>>26610895
Some breakrides are pretty bonkers, mostly Bad-End Dragger. Others are hilariously underpowered like the recently revealed D Police breakride.

But the real thing breaking CFV is 13k bodies and MLB/DotE having a mid-game while all other decks have to wait till late game to start doing much of anything.

Limit break was the worst thing to happen. Not because it was broken in some way but it drove the devs to think putting LB4/5 was good for balancing skills while giving no real advantage in exchange.

Hell, in regards to crossrides any of the new ones suck compared to DotE simply because of their LB restrictions.

I enjoy the game, but fuck playing with competition in mind.

Also Battle Sisters suck when Soulless OTT (Scarlet Witch CoCo and others) generates advantage faster and for easier to meet restrictions.

>> No.26611443

>>26611234
>Also Battle Sisters suck when Soulless OTT (Scarlet Witch CoCo and others) generates advantage faster and for easier to meet restrictions.

Not even mad.

I'm just playing this game at all for the kawaii uguu art. Wouldn't have bothered spending any time or money into it if the game's art is completely just dragons/knights/edgy 2emo4u dark knights.

>> No.26611505

>>26611443
I enjoy some of the art, not the kawaii ones so much though.

The reason I play Spike Bros is simply them being demon/beast football players so the idea of a bunch of football players tackling knights and kicking footballs at dragons is entertaining to me.

>> No.26611562

>>26610980
Huh. Barri's down to $19. Wasn't he like $40 before. I'm going to feel horrible about it, but I might actually pick one up.

>> No.26611667

>>26611148

Keywords leads to boring creatures.

>> No.26611679

>>26611562
It's getting a functional reprint in the form of another perfect guard, anyway (Seal Dragon, Rinocross).

>> No.26611724

>>26611667
You have got to be fucking joking.

>> No.26611747

>>26610178
Listen to me:
If you want to play the Pokemon card game, play the GBC game.

>> No.26611751

>>26611679
You know places will sell them for their own prices no matter how much sense it makes game-wise to do the opposite.

>> No.26611787

>>26611751
Buy the singles online, then. Fuck local stores and their uncompetitive rate.

>mfw the shopkeeper at my shop wants to charge $20 for a Bermuda Triangle perfect guard. Easily bought a playset of them for $10 each online.

>> No.26611857

>>26611787
Online really isn't much better.

When I started playing earlier last year I could get most non-RP/GP/Kagero/Narukami perfects for under $10. With shops, both brick n mortar and online, noticing how even the less popular clan's perfects were selling well decided to up the price.

I pretty much trade for everything these days so it's not as bad of an issue for me, but that window is getting smaller the longer CFV's competitive scene stays as toxic as it is.

>> No.26611924

>>26611857
>CFV
>competitive

Hah. Are there even any high profile tournaments with big payouts?

I have a feeling Bushiroad never meant for the game to be competitive on a high level.
>free tournaments with no entry fee
>shitty prizes given out for weekly tournaments (hey you get a 1 CARD RANDOM PROMO PACK! ISN'T THAT AWESOME?)
>1-game per match as standard tournament structure (fuck you if you get unlucky, you're out)
>2 round elimination
>can't use dices/paper to keep track of the card powers/abilities
>big luck element being part of the game in the form of triggers

>> No.26611947

>>26611747

That game was terrible. The unique versions of the legendary birds in that game that don't exist IRL are way too powerful.

>> No.26611964

>>26611724

All the best and most unique YGO creatures don't use abilities found on other cards.

>> No.26611975

>>26611924
YGO tournies don't even have big payouts yet those get counted as competitive.

But CFV's issue is how poorly tournaments are handled. Also the chance element isn't as big as people make it out to be.

Ever play Poker? With how decks are forced to be structured in CFV is allows for easy card counting and even better that as the game progresses you get to see more and more of what your opponent has.

>> No.26612007

>>26611947

That's why you don't get them until the end of the game.

>> No.26612008

>>26605026

Because Legacy is a well-balanced format with a variety of decks that're workable.

>> No.26612041

>>26611964
Okay, the latter part of your sentence basically boils down to saying "Unique things are unique".
And the former is likely because of YGO's lack of keywords in the first place.

>> No.26612049

>>26611924
>can't use dice/paper to keep track of things
What. Is there an actual rule against that?!

>> No.26612077

>>26611964
There's plenty of strong Magic cards that don't do things other cards do. Or aren't keyworded.

Restoration Angel is good. Thragtusk is good. They have good abilities that don't need keywording. But if you think that having "Flash" on Resto makes her worse or less unique than if she had "Can be played any time you could play an instant" you're fucking retarded.

One of the worst things about Yugioh is when there's shit that SHOULD be keyworded because of how common it is (like piercing), but instead it takes up half the fucking textbox explaining itself.

>> No.26612079

>>26605118
I fucking love that card.

>> No.26612086

>>26612049
Yup, it's in the book. Personally I think that is fine since all the info is on the table and what you can recall in your opponent's hand from drive checks.

Unlike MtG there's not as much to keep track of.

>> No.26612096

>>26612049
http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?t=1065528

>No, it isn't legal to do this. In fact, objects unrelated to the game (ie. the cards themselves, that's it) shouldn't even be on the table.

The game is a joke. Really.

>> No.26612113

>>26612041

Well the first post was saying keywords make for boring creatures. And you were all like "WHAT NO WAY YOU LIE" and now when I tell you creatures that are unique and interesting have no repeated effects, you're all like "UH SO WHAT". Keywords are fucking boring. They do the same shit and appear everywhere, they force you to learn new keywords instead of just spelling them out, and you never see them again after rotation.

>> No.26612124

It's not like keywords don't come with reminder text half the time.

>> No.26612136

>>26612077

Flash is a core keyword.

>> No.26612140

>>26612086
That is absolute fucking horseshit.

I can accept them saying 'no taking notes' because it could slow things down too much, but actually having a rule against dice? That is so fucking ass-backwards it hurts.

>> No.26612145

>>26611751
My local shop sells them at a smidge off the trollandtoad prices. God bless you, Rick.

>> No.26612153

>>26612113
>Force you to learn new keywords
I'd rather 'learn' what Flying is than read the explanation of it on every fucking card.

>> No.26612157

>>26612140
What would you need dice for in CFV? Have you actually played the game?

All info is on the table in the cards. If it's too much for you to glance at the table then you have other problems.

>> No.26612160

>>26612113
Because "Flying", "Trample", "Protection from X", and other such effects are never seen because of rotation.

>> No.26612180

>>26612157
Doreen the Thruster, to track the number of soul charges that turn. Similar other counters.

>> No.26612187

>>26612136
And?

You're implying that just by HAVING a keyword, that cards are going to become boring.

If we took an existing keyword and made it no longer a keyword, guess what? It'd still exist. There were creatures with Vigilance before it was called that. In Yugioh, there's creatures with Piercing. Enough of them, in fact, that THE COMMUNITY MADE UP THEIR OWN NAME FOR IT TO REFER TO IT IN SHORTHAND. You already have keywords in your shitty game, except without the useful feature of 'reducing text present in your tiny text box'

>> No.26612202

>>26612157
I've never played the game, no, but having an actual fucking rule saying you're not ALLOWED to use dice to keep track of things is stupid.

>> No.26612214

>>26612180
You're very unlikely to go over three triggers in a given turn on units like Doreen and such. Any time you go over three it's easy enough to remember from how unlikely that happens.

>> No.26612239

>>26612140

Just go to tournaments and keep rolling dice whenever the judge's back is turned and hiding them when he's looking.

Bonus points for being super loud and obvious about it or if you make your opponent complain to the judge about your incessent dice rolling.

>> No.26612254

>>26612153

I'd rather have more interesting creatures than just "Flying."

>> No.26612259

>>26612157
>What is Bermuda Prism decks?
>I bounce my dude back to hand, +4k to one dude on board, play it back and bounce it, +4k more to the dude
>Attack with my labrador, limit break, +10k to it, play back my dudes. Flip over trigger, +5k to some other dude

>implying you can consistently keep track of all that after a long day of playing little kid's card games

Using that logic, Magic should ban the usage of dice and paper to keep track of life, too. It's only 20 life, faggot. Can't you keep track of just 20 life mentally?

>> No.26612263

>>26612160

>>26612136

Core keyword. Quite obvious the post refers to set specific keywords.

>> No.26612270

>>26612214
>Hasn't soulcharged 6 turn 2, or ever had more than one doreen to keep track of

>> No.26612275

>>26612187

Shoulda called it trample.

>your shitty game

Haha, get mad.

>> No.26612283

>>26605026

I don't, I'm quitting netrunner

>> No.26612290

>>26612263
Flash is not a 'core keyword'.

And even set-specific ones sometimes come back. Flashback was a one-set thing, until it came back. Cycling too.

Are there keywords that aren't likely to come back? Yeah. Are there keywords that are only really 'keywords' for flavor rather than for mechanical reasons, since they're only in one set? Sure. But if you think the mere existence of keywords somehow makes ALL creatures inherently shitty and boring, you're a fucking moron.

>> No.26612298

>>26612275
It's a rather well know fact that YGO is shit

>> No.26612304

>>26612259
>The game of MtG things don't come in bulk
>You're most likely to deal a set amount of damage a turn thus keeping it easy to track mentally
>The only time shit gets confusing is in game token/counter numbers and storm counts
>Implying BT Prisms are good and it's that hard to keep a bulk number in your head on 2-4 units

They're shit, zero mid-game and their late game effects are outpaced by the original EB's cards.

>> No.26612307

I'm glad you autistic Standardfags like your stupid and un-innovative keywords (Exalted? Seriously, how fucking useless is that). I'll be over here playing Legacy and Vintage with cards that cost more than you make in a month and having played for longer than your entire career and probably to a higher degree of skill.

inb4 drafters

>> No.26612317

>>26612157
I've seen many instances where a more experienced player bullies newer players by claiming something has more power than it should have, or transferring the power that he previously assigned to dude A to dude B to his advantage, because they don't keep track of things visually to ensure no funny things are going on

>> No.26612319

>>26612298

Stop pretending like Magic isn't.

>> No.26612320

>>26612270
>Wasting all that soulcharging that early if not rushing for Poet amon or filling up for Reijy

You're just bad at this game.

>> No.26612328

>>26612317

That's because card players are autistic faggots like all these idiots that claim keywords are awesome despite the fact you have to memorize random useless information that just confuses new players.

>> No.26612336

>>26612317
That's just shitty players, not the fault of the game lacking dice/paper. I've seen the same shit in every other game.

>> No.26612339

>>26612304
"Keeping track of damage mentally" is stupid.

I literally cannot conceive of a rules committee deciding that BANNING THE USE OF PEN AND PAPER TO KEEP TRACK OF LIFE was a good idea.

>> No.26612346

>>26612319
Not pretending if it's true.

>> No.26612349

>>26612304
What does EB-02 offer for mid games?

I don't see anything beyond the perla-perle sisters combination, and Rivierie chain ride (good luck if you miss the chain, though)

>> No.26612353

>>26612320
>Implying I don't play Amon

>> No.26612354

>>26612339
Life is six in CFV. If you can't track that you're an idiot.

>> No.26612379

>>26612354
Life is 20 in Magic.

If you can't track that your an idiort.

>> No.26612384

>>26612349
Pacifica filling your soul, other units using that soul for bouncing (like Flores and such) and generating massive advantage early.

Prism cards mostly manage that in the later end of the game for a higher cost even.

>> No.26612396

>>26612328
>memorize random useless information
oh god no, you have to LEARN ABOUT A GAME to play it! How fucking awful, that's just unacceptable.

>confuses new players
I have never seen a new player be 'confused' by a keyword unless it was old, or they were stupid. Banding confuses new players. flying, trample, first strike, flash, scavenge, all that good stuff? They seem to get that just fine. It's a lot easier to tell them once

>And I'll detain your guy
"What's that mean?"
>It can't attack, block, or activate abilities until my next turn

Than to say "I'm gonna use my spell on your guy that prevents it from attacking, blocking, or activating abilities to my next turn" every single time it happens. Keywords save space on the card, and they make it simpler to verbally communicate what's going on. "I'm gonna scavenge this. I'm gonna cycle that. I'll dredge 3. I'll flash in my creature. You take 4 because of trample. My guy lives because or first strike."

>> No.26612412

>>26612379
Hey, not my fault you can't condense a whole turn down to the results of it. I was attacked by a 2/4 and 3/3 and a 6/7? Well I'm at 9 now.

>> No.26612414

>>26612384
>actually using Flores

You have just shown how shit you are.

>> No.26612430

>>26612412
Yeah, that's great.

Now a few turns later, I attack you for 11, and you swear to god that you only took 8 damage that turn, and we argue about it and call a judge who has to guess at which of our stories is right.

Meanwhile, if we're keeping track on paper we can see exactly when the life totals started to be wrong, and it makes it that much easier to fix.

>> No.26612437

>>26605282
I had a classic bug deck, when I tried to get back into the game and replenish with some fresh blood, I found that none of the new cards were ever to insects, it had to be a synchro, or an inzektor or some shit!

>> No.26612447

>>26611234
>I enjoy the game, but fuck playing with competition in mind.

Pretty much this. In a casual meta, the creep isn't as noticeable. Older decks still do OKish. Once you get down to grinding numbers though, things change. AT LEAST it's not YuGiOh yet, right? Right?

>> No.26612454

>>26612430
Yup, because it's that hard to remember 9.

Goes to show folks, people just can't keep track of simple info.

>> No.26612469

>>26612447
>AT LEAST it's not YuGiOh yet, right? Right?
Oh, it's heading towards that direction quick.

>90% of the old cards are outclassed by new cards
>80% of the clans are useless because they HAVE to print more shitty paladin/dragon/emo knight cards to please the kids watching their shitty weekend cartoon show

>> No.26612491

>>26612414
I simply used her as an example since it came to mind, I'm aware of other bouncers that get fueled via soul.

>> No.26612496

>>26612454
Spoken like a faggot who has never played in high level tournaments

>> No.26612518

>not using pen and paper

People seriously don't do this when playing Magic?

>> No.26612528

>>26612496
>Playing MtG at high levels
>Expecting people to not cheat

Your own fault for going into a shit environment for a game.

>> No.26612532

>>26612496
Or low level ones with SUPER SRS GAMERS
OR casual with scumbags

>> No.26612543

>>26612491
I don't really think there's any other Bermuda builds that can be better than the standard Prism 4 Vert 4 Labrador build, though. The advantage they bring with their limit break is just too good. Not to mention Prism also has a 9k grade 2 that becomes 12k when attacking, and a 7k grade 1 that becomes 10k when attacking.

Prove me wrong.

>> No.26612560

Is there anywhere I can play Vanguard online?

>> No.26612599

>>26612543
I'm simply going to link to vmundi's BT article for this. Alice explains shit better than me.
http://www.v-mundi.com/2012/deep-clan-bermuda-triangle/

>> No.26612606

>>26612560
There used to be Cardfight Capital or some shit. Look it up?

>> No.26612615

>>26612560
Best right now is Cray Online. Guy is pretty active with it too.

>> No.26612647

>>26612599
I'm going to just ignore everything you've said.

v-mundi is an aspie who's full of shit.

>implying Alice knows what he's talking about

>> No.26612662

>>26612518

If it's a casual game, spindown die are good enough.

If it's any actual kind of tournament situation, pen and paper all the way.

>> No.26612667

>>26612454
Okay, now imagine instead of two huge blocks, it's small. You take 2 here. 2 there. 1 here. gain 4 here. 10 turns later I think you're at 8, you think you're at 10, and we get into an argument about it.

Both of our stories seem right. Our math adds up. But which of us is right? Which of us has the right number in our heads? Writing that shit down helps eliminate a fuckload of errors.

>> No.26612671

>>26612469

And marketing marches on!

See, a M:tG show would be great. But it would KILL the game, especially with WOTC under Hasbro. Because the game would have to follow the show. So that means shitty cards being printed and balance being fucked. YGO made bank with it, Vanguard switched to that direction and that's killing it too.

>> No.26612682

>>26612518
Eh, when I'm playing with friends we use dice or an app.

When I'm at a tournament, even just FNM, I use pen and paper, and I verbally announce every single life change every single time.

>> No.26612687

>>26612518
I just use my phone.

>> No.26612692

>>26612647
>Has no argument as to why it's all aspie
>Has no argument against the tested games and math on the site

This is why you're shit at the game.

Let me guess though, when playing MtG or YGO you follow the long laid out standards on deck construction right? Guess how those were achieved? With lots of testing and tons of math.

>> No.26612720

>>26605040

>Wither
>+
>Poison
>=
>Infect

>Dual color cards more powerful than mono counterparts due to specific mana costs
>Introduce dozens of lands that mae this a non issie
>Reap the benefits of playing multiple colors with none of the drawbacks

>Wurmcoil Engine

>mfw WotC will inevitably print a Lightening Bolt that deals 4 damage to a player for 1 mana, or let a 4/3 body hit the field

Oh wait...

>> No.26612731

I quit playing YGO back when the GX shit came out, so I went and looked at the current ban list out of curiosity.

Holy shit, things have gotten bad. Why the everloving fuck did Cold Wave get banned? I used to love that thing, it was great for tempo.

I get stuff like Magical Scientist and Yata, but Trap Dustshoot was a THROWAWAY common when I was playing. What the hell happened?

>> No.26612737

I like Yu-Gi-Oh. I play it casually with my friends, we are playing it since the cards appeared here.

We don't care about banning lists or "metagaming", we just use our favorite cards. Usually from the first sets, or things from Forbidden Memories.


I have no idea what Synchro is, and for "xyz", you guys mean those machines with a few fusions? Like Y-Dragon Head and etc?

>> No.26612743

>>26612687
Phone is preferable to dice, but pen and paper > all.

Pen and paper allow you to document each change in life, so you can see where the divergence began. "Oh, see, I have you going from 14 to 12, you have you going from 14 to 11." Then we find out why the numbers don't match; we know the last time our numbers agreed, so that makes it infinitely easier to figure out what went wrong.

You can also keep track of the life totals for multiple games, so if it comes to "who won game 1" (and yes, I have seen that happen before), it's easier to figure out. Finally, with pen and paper you can take quick notes easily, like after seeing my hand with Duress.

Pen and paper is just the best possible way to keep track of life, and any judge will tell you that.

>> No.26612755

>>26605026
Because they're fun.

>> No.26612759

>>26612743
I can do all that with my phone.

>> No.26612764

>>26612671

I actually think a comic would be a much better medium, since it really allows for more complex explanations and board-states, plus it can take it's time with duels without succumbing to the Yugioh "constant talking and explanations" annoyances.

>> No.26612776

>>26612667
By "there" and "here" you mean turns? Still not hard to track since the given results in a turn are the same. This turn I lost 2 (now at 7), next turn another 2 (now at 5), then 1 (4) and then jump to 8 the later turn.

The only time it's confusing is if you're using a deck that actually has to track multitudes of cards/counters/tokens/effects. But how often are those encountered in the average game?

>> No.26612786

>>26612720
>Infect is poison and wither
Yes, and?

>None of the drawbacks
There's drawbacks. A greedy manabase is going to cause you to take a lot more damage from shocks in Standard, and it's still not perfect. While it's harder to get manascrewed than I'd like, it is still possible, and there's stuff like Burning Earth (as well as Price of Progress and Blood Moon and friends in older formats) to punish people for getting greedy with their manabases. Plus, that's not how it always is. Prior to getting our shocks back, colorfixing was pretty wonky; I remember Esper control being kinda awful just because of how fiddly your manabase was.

>Wurmcoil engine
Is a powerful card that can be dealt with in many ways and has never even approached format-defining, let alone format-warping

>Vexing Devil
Barely saw play.

>> No.26612795

>>26612319

Magic is a game for those who relish strategy; Yu-Gi-Oh! is for people with short attention spans.

>> No.26612807

>>26612662
>>26612682
>>26612687
>>26612743
Actually, I have an app that does track changes as well as display the current life total. It's pretty great for casual play but yes any thing more serious than FNM I definitely always use pen and paper all the way. TBH I don't really like dice even when playing with friends.

>> No.26612813

>>26612759
Really? Your phone lets you keep track of life totals across multiple games, lets you document visually each individual change, lets you take visible notes without putting the life totals away?

If it does all of that and you can do it as quickly as most people scribble on a notepad, as well as having to pick it up every single time you have to make a note, go for it.

>> No.26612826

>>26612671
I wished they'd just make a series out of the various backstories MtG had over the years. THAT would be something I'd love to see. Fuck the actual game. I want to see monsters battle and planeswalkers having epic adventures on gloriously designed planes.

>> No.26612839

>>26612776
If you honestly think it's just as simple as 'remember these numbers', you're an idiot. There's a LOT of stuff going on in your average game of Magic, and most of the time you're thinking about your next play, or what your opponent might have waiting for you, rather than your current life total. It's just easier and safer to write it the fuck down.

But please, keep thinking yourself superior for keeping track of it mentally and losing every single "I have you at 4, not 6" debate you ever get into because you refuse to use paper.

>> No.26612841 [SPOILER] 

>>26605026
Guess who is coming back

>> No.26612852

>>26612720

Dragon Stompy says: Fuck your shit. Pic very related.

>> No.26612855

>>26612720

>Implying dual lands haven't been a thing since Alpha

>Implying playing multicolor has no downside

>Implying Vexing Devil is broken

I'll give you a pass on the Wurmcoil point. Creatures are way too gnarly right now.
But when they print nonbasic land hate in Standard (Burning Earth) and really solid multicolor hate cards (Renounce the Guilds) your other points aren't so solid.

>> No.26612865

>>26612720

>implying it was bad to combine two sub-par mechanics into a reasonably fringe playable one

>forgetting the fact that no-drawback dual lands existed since the beginning of the game

>implying people STILL don't get manascrewed when playing multicolored even with dual lands

>I seriously don't know what your problem with Wurmcoil Engine is, as it's not terrible but not overpowered either

>implying you would get to choose the effect of said hypothetical card

You're one of those "Vexing Devil is good" retards, aren't you?

>> No.26612886

>>26612839
Not my fault you can't hold onto as much info as me. I'm totally fine with pen and paper being used, but if it's not on hand then I use my brain. Also helps I've built up a reputation as a trustworthy person at my locals.

>> No.26612894

>>26612865
>it's not terrible
I agree with you that the guy you're quoting is silly, but Wurmcoil is pretty far from 'not terrible'. It wasn't called the Sixth Titan for nothing.

>> No.26612896

>>26612841
Go away Trish.
We had a party when you got banned.
You're ruining it for the rest of us

>> No.26612907

>>26612886
I can probably hold onto just as much as you.

I'd just rather not leave that to chance when it takes hardly any effort to do it right.

>> No.26612908

>>26612886
>hurf durf behold my superior intellect, plebs!

>> No.26612916

>>26612908
>hurf durf behold my meme arrows plebs

>> No.26612946

Ok to be fair Vexing Devil is really good. The thing is though, it's only good at doing one thing and sucks when you try and mesh it with other cards, which makes it a terrible addition to a deck.

>> No.26612952

>>26612894

It's better than Frosty, but Wurmcoil had the distinct problem of doing absolutely nada the turn you paid out 6 mana.

Granted, he alleviates that by at least ensuring value if he eats a Doom Blade, but I'm reluctant to give anything a Titan label if it's not doing something the second it hits the field. Thragtusk is probably closer to being the sixth Titan.

>> No.26612961

>>26612764
There is a Magic the Gathering comic, from IDW.

>> No.26612964

>>26612896
No.

>> No.26612977

>>26612946
It's not that good.

>> No.26613003

>>26612961

Yeah, but it's all lore-based junk.

I'm talking about something more in line with Yu-Gi-Oh!'s approach where you have people actually playing the card game. Maybe they have a holodeck or something they can visualize all the crap in.

>> No.26613014

>>26613003
Please no.

>> No.26613015

>>26613003
closes thing I saw was the short manga to introduce MtG to Jap players.

Was silly as fuck.

>> No.26613037

>>26612946
It's not even 'really good'. You put it into a burn/aggro deck, and it basically reads

"An opponent chooses 1: ~ deals 4 damage to target opponent; or put a 4/3 Devil token onto the battlefield"

They always pick the best option for them. If they don't have blockers or removal ready and would likely take 4, 8, 12 damage from the Devil before being able to kill it, they just take 4 and get rid of it. If they HAVE blockers or removal or any other answer, they just let you have the devil and deal with it.

It's a creature when you want burn, and burn when you want a creature.

>> No.26613039

>>26613003
They have a perfectly good in-setting mechanism they could use to have people basically playing the game against each other: actual planeswalker duels. That would be much less lame that holodecks, and they could add life-totals and mana costs in captions if they really wanted it to double as a tutorial.

>> No.26613044

>>26612952

If Wurmcoil wasn't removed, he won just about any life race in your favor, right then and there. Aside from flyer-heavy Tempered Steel lists, aggro decks couldn't swing around him without the Wurmcoil player netting more life, and then hitting for 6 more the next turn. Plus he's colorless, which made him balls easy to cast, and this was a format where any color (monoblack, Esper, whatever) could ramp to a six drop thanks to Sad Robot.

Even if it had the colored costs it thematically deserves (4WB, perhaps?), it'd still be an excellent card.

>> No.26613048

>>26613003

That would be the day I quit the game for good.

>> No.26613068

>>26613048
>W/S
>Waifu Wars: The Game

>> No.26613087

>>26612795
>Chldrens card games
>srs bzness
>babi first yougimons
>Magic for winnar
>Magic so cool

>> No.26613095

>>26613068
>lazily copy pasted art from posters/anime screencaps
>what's the flavor? you summon clones of character A and make them attack your opponent's clones of character B...?

>> No.26613098

>>26613015
>creepy as fuck Black playing girl
>ultimate luck-sacking kaichou-sama
>lovey-dovey RG couple
>STORMTIDE LEVIATHAN

It was awesome.

>> No.26613111

>>26612952

>Cards need to do something the very turn it is played to pay off

No. This way of thinking is almost as dumb as people saying a creature is bad because it dies to removal.

>> No.26613133

>>26613098
Can I have a link to it please?

>> No.26613143

>>26613111
That depends on the environment.

Slower games? Yeah, you can cast your slower dude and might not have to cover its ass.

Faster games? If it's there next turn you know you're winning.

>> No.26613195

>>26613143

>Depends of the environment

This applies to literally every card ever printed. There are always going to be scenarios where another card would have been a much better play than something else. It doesn't change the fact that Wurmcoil Engine is one of the best creatures ever printed.

>> No.26613209

>>26613087
Magic has an international community of judges who routinely talk amongst themselves and work together to ensure that knowledge about the game is readily available to all judges, and to any player who asks.

Magic has a free online database where you can look up the current exact Oracle wording of any card, at any time, as well as often having specific rulings about that card to answer common questions.

Magic has a comprehensive rulebook and tournament documents, freely and easily available to anyone online, as well as several thousand judges with intimate knowledge of it.

Magic has a thriving tournament scene, as well as much casual play for people who aren't into that.

Magic has multiple formats for multiple tastes, including Limited.

Magic releases their sets in 11 different languages, all on the same day, for every set, every time.

Yugioh has 'rulings' that are made by judges attempting to interpret the rules on a fucking Facebook page.

Yugioh has a fan-maintained wiki as the closest thing you'll find to 'official errata'.

Yugioh has an absurdly high amount of theft in the community, to the point that a major TO in Florida got run over by a fucking getaway car while trying to stop some thugs who were stealing entire backpacks.

Yugioh has only one supported format, which is constantly changing due to their release of increasingly broken cards and liberal application of bans.

Yugioh has an extremely xenophobic and insular judging community, to the point that US judges had to guess how a new card type worked, even though it had been out in Japan for months, because the Japanese judges wouldn't tell them.

Yugioh has a global banlist based on the three-sets-ahead meta of Japan.

>> No.26613226

>>26613111
To be fair, we're talking about it relative to the Titans, which all did something as soon as they came down, and were among the best creatures in the format because they passed the Jace Test.

>> No.26613233

>>26613195
I'm not saying Wurmcoil is bad, but it didn't bust the game as one guy seems to imply.

Just because it shows up often in tournaments doesn't mean it's broken. Go watch games during that time in Standard, Wurmcoil was just a damn good addition to the deck but it didn't win games on its back alone.

>> No.26613241

>>26605677
A 66% win rate is crazy huge.

>> No.26613295

>>26613209
Holy shit.

>> No.26613296

>>26613003

You mean screechy-voiced children and plots that make jack all sense?

>> No.26613344

>>26613296

I'm talking about a COMIC, not a cartoon. No worries on the voice-acting front.

I suppose the plots might be nutty, but I don't care as long as the games and decks are something besides Jund vs Jund: The Jundening

>> No.26613349

>>26613133
http://www.mangatraders.com/view/file/136886

>> No.26613372

>>26613233

I agree. Wurmcoil was never too good. It's just a symptom of Wizards pushing creatures really fucking hard lately.

Remember a few years ago when every Magic thread on /tg/ was bitching about how ridiculously powerful and expensive Baneslayer Angel was? Creatures are NUTS right now.

Take a look at Legacy. The majority of the creatures seeing play there are all from the Modern era, which is why Modern is such an awkward format - it has most of the best creatures but not nearly as many of the best noncreature spells.

>> No.26613376

>>26613295
Yeah, it's pretty fucked up. I don't play Yugioh, but I have friends who do play (and some who USED to play) competitively, as well as talking to TOs who deal with magic and YGO.

Shops I work for refuse to sell YGO singles because it's a fucking crapshoot. They never know when an 80 dollar staple is going to get banned or reprinted or made worse and go down the shitter to 5 dollars. And it's very rare that an old 2 dollar card becomes hyper-valuable; when that DOES happen it's some shitty common nobody wants to dig through their bins for, but then someone's gonna find it in the dollar bin a month later and turn a sick profit. It's not worth the effort.

TOs I've worked with have also verified how stupidly rampant the thefts are. Hell, one TO told me they had to ban a vendor from ever working with them again, because they were PAYING KIDS to steal bags. Literally offering money for stolen bags.

>> No.26613380

>>26613344

The anime is bullshit. Card games to determine the fate of souls and worlds? Is that the best they can do?

>> No.26613414

>>26613376

Show your TO this Yugioh vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH61nwJSzVk

>> No.26613437

>>26613372
To be fair, for the fuck-longest time creatures were second fiddle. Hard. Spells outclassed them by a mile. We may have Wurmcoil instead of Craw Wurm now, but we also have Cancel instead of Counterspell, and Think Twice instead of Brainstorm.

I hope creatures are beginning to level off a bit. The Titan era was, I think, the peak. Thragtusk is solid, but he's really only stupid because of his best friend Restoration Angel. Boros Reckoner is a more mana-intensive (but cheaper) Spitemare; still good, but not backbreaking. Archangel of Thune is neat, but not busted to bits, etc.

I think that we're finding a good balance. I don't mean to imply that Wizards is infallible, because they do fuck up from time to time. But overall, they've kept this game not just alive, but THRIVING for 20 years. It's been growing in sales and attendance very well the past few years especially, and while there's grumbles about some of the stuff they've done, overall people seem to be having a blast with the game.

WotC aren't infallible. But I trust them to know more than I do about keeping Magic healthy for years to come.

>> No.26613475

>>26613414
>Baltimore
That might be part of it. Every major event that happens in Baltimore has mad theft.

Hell, GP Baltimore what, a few years back? People's cars were getting broken into. I'm not gonna lie, there's some theft in the Magic community, but it seems to be less theft of opportunity (random thugs snagging unattended bags) and more actual targeted theft (as in people going after judges and artists and vendors who have large quantities of expensive cards in their cars). Eric Klug's car got broken into at a GP last year, they stole his laptop, his bag, and a multiple-thousand dollar cube his friend had in the trunk. This wasn't some idiot showing off his Legacy binder and leaving his bag in plain sight. This was a targeted theft.

>> No.26613496

>>26613475

Did he almost get his head crushed by a car?

>> No.26613511

>>26613496
Not to my knowledge, no. I don't think they ever caught the guy. They went back to their car after the event and the window was busted out and their shit was all gone.

>> No.26613522

>>26613295

Magic sets each have a coherent setting and storyline. Each one had a companion novel, now they have companion ebooks.

Magic has a central sanctioning body for official tournaments, allowing Magic players to qualify for high-level tournaments in a variety of ways.

Magic cards have large frames for art and very legible text, having at one point redesigned the card front to improve readability.

Magic has a paid official online implementation with rules enforcement, one of the first programs to prove digital goods can hold value. A full set of online cards can be redeemed for that set in paper.

Yugioh doesn't have any of these things.

>> No.26613534

>>26613437
Also helps that there's a wide support for alternative formats. Some of which control for problem cards.

Legacy, while having a pretty high power level compared to other formats, is pretty damn balanced and has many viable options for high level play.

Just find the niche that has the stuff you like and like to do. It's the main reason I've been able to play this game since 94.

>> No.26613564

>>26613534

Legacy is good if you can proxy; there's plenty of decks falling under control, aggro, and combo that're viable.

>> No.26613568

>>26613534
That's one thing I love about Legacy. There's "better" decks, like BUG Shardless at the moment, but they aren't absolutely dominating. They still have decks they lose to.

What deck wins a given Legacy event depends on the skill of the pilot... and what decks are PRESENT at the event, because there's literally dozens of perfectly viable decks. Even lower tier 3 strategies can get a streak of good matchups and blow out a Legacy Open.

>> No.26613638

>>26613568

Keeping watch on Legacy.

>> No.26613653

>>26613437

I understand the power shift they've been on, and they've been managing it excellently. I'm just eagerly awaiting the pendulum to fall back a bit.

What I'm more concerned about for the health of the game is how Modern will affect Wizard's choices for Standard. We'll not see a decent 1 mana blue draw control cantrip for a long, long time by my reckoning. And Modern will likely never get some of Legacy's coolest stuff - Dark Ritual, Hymn to Tourach, Pernicious Deed, Armageddon...

The list goes on.

>> No.26613680

>>26613522
YGO archetypes have storylines thought
But they aren't that detailed(except the DT storyline) because Jewnami focus on the shitty anime.

>> No.26613694

>>26608186
Yeah, friend bought a Chaotic game not too long ago for his PS3 for like 3 bucks because whynot. I went through the torture of beating the main story. The game was garbage, though I liked the battles to some extent.

Would anyone happen to know if the game just played like the card game except with some graphics and extra mechanics thrown in? It still used cards pretty much. I've just never played.

>> No.26613736

>>26613653
Hey, you never know. They could always make a special set that's in the Modern rotation, but not the Standard one somehow. Or 'fixed' versions of bonkers Legacy stuff.

Or, maybe not. They want Modern to be its own animal, not Legacy Lite, not Standard Plus.

>> No.26613807

>>26613680

Jesus Christ, that has to be the most insane activation requirement I've seen on one of those things.

Shit like this really makes it obvious the cards are just ways for anime writers to progress the plot of the card games.

>> No.26613810

>>26613680
>all that tiny text crammed into a small space

Wow. I'm glad I don't play this shit.

>> No.26613851

>>26613736

I'll admit, my real problem is that I love Legacy too much, and I want all my friends to play it, but my friends aren't the kind of people who'll play crazy-ass budget Tier 2 decks like I do.

But they're willing to try Modern.

But I want to play Legacy.

So Modern should just be Legacy, dammit.

>> No.26613859

>>26610441
In addition to what others have added, you never actually know what's going to get banned when in Yugioh. You know exactly when the cards in your deck aren't going to work in Standard 95% of the time. The 5% being moments like when JtmS was banned. But in those cases you have a very good feeling it's coming. (And years later in Jace's case, it's still worth 100 bucks.)

>> No.26613862

>>26613851
Just allow proxies then.

>> No.26613899

>>26613807
>Jesus Christ, that has to be the most insane activation requirement I've seen on one of those things.
Oh you

>> No.26613923

>>26613899
Did you forget about how you have to summon Exodia Necross?

>> No.26613937

>>26613899
What the fuck is wrong with this game? WHY DO PEOPLE EVEN PLAY THIS?

>> No.26613947

>>26613862

We've done proxy Legacy before, and it's great. I just want them to be able to play at our shop's weekly events, which are great. We regularly get 20 or more people with a solid variety of decks.

>> No.26613957

>>26613810

That's not even the worst example of it.

>> No.26613966

>>26613899
To put shit like this into perspective for Magic players, these cards have such stupidly arbitrary requirements for such silly return that a Magic equivalent would be something like

2WWUUUUUUUBRRGGGG

Sorcery

Cast ~ only during your precombat main phase if you control 3 Homarid Bersekers.

If it is the second Tuesday in February, you may deal 1 damage to target non-Human Enchantment.

Draw a card if you can see a McDonalds from your seat, reflected off of your opponent's sleeves. If you do, you lose 10 life and discard 5 cards.

>> No.26613995

>>26613923
Dumping dark monsters in the grave is easy thought

>>26613937
B-but nobody uses these cards anon

>> No.26614005

What I didn't like about MtG was how boring it seemed, wizards demons ect. when yugioh literally has a kamen rider archtype.

>> No.26614014

>>26613966

>> No.26614045

>>26613966

I'm trying to think of the most ridiculous condition cards in Magic.

Coalition Victory
Maze's End
Door to Nothingness
Battle of Wits (and the rest of the cycle, especially Chance Encounter)
Airborne Aid?

I can't think of many more.

>> No.26614061

>>26613957

>shuffle this card into the extra deck

WHY? Why the hell do you have to shuffle it in? Isn't the extra deck just for fusions and ritual monsters that don't belong in the main deck? Why randomize it?

>> No.26614066

>>26614005
There's a plane where every living thing is infused with some kind of organic metal, and where the world itself is made entirely of metal.

There's a plane that was shattered into 5 smaller demiplanes, each cut off from two colors of mana, which affected how the entire plane and its inhabitants lived (for example, there's no such thing as healing or life magic on Grixis, so it's all death and decay).

There's a plane that is constantly churning and changing, like the land itself is trying to kill you, because of horrible extradimensional Lovecraftian horrors imprisoned within the land itself.

There's a plane that is literally one gigantic city, covering every inch of the whole fucking plane of existence.

There's a plane that's like a fairy tale, with goblins who seek out new experiences, and merfolk that live in the river and act as guides and teachers.

It's a lot more than just boring wizards.

>> No.26614081

>>26614005
>when yugioh literally has a kamen rider archtype.

Ahem.

>> No.26614092

>>26614081
>mfw they won't make more Masked Police

>> No.26614096

>>26614066
Beautiful.

>> No.26614126

>>26614066
Yugioh has planes.

>> No.26614141

>>26611443
>>26611443
>>26611443
Are there new bermuda triangle cards???

I remember buying a bunch of banquet of divas. I dont usually buy vanguard cards but love the bermuda triangle

>> No.26614161

>>26614126

>xblackdragin777x

Kill it with fire

>> No.26614174

>>26614126

So does Magic.

>> No.26614177

>>26614141
Come join the party, anon.

New expansion for Bermudas just released in English like one month ago.

>> No.26614188

>>26614174
>5 mana
>does nothing the moment it comes into play
>have no innate abilities
>expensive activation cost for abilities

0/10 would not even touch

>> No.26614194

>>26614161
Yeah I just grabbed the image off of google, but it's a real card.

>> No.26614195

>>26614177
are they expensive?

let me guess. they are all better than the original

>> No.26614199

>>26612254
>The only abilities in magic are keywords.
They actually only make up a small portion of abilities. And abilities in magic are made to represent what a creature does in some kind of physical sense. Some creatures have wings and can fly, so they're going to have the same ability. Do you want every card that floats in the air to have some different wording for doing it? That makes absolutely no sense. "That bird is flying, and so is that one, but because they all need to be special little snowflakes they can't receive the same bonus for doing so."

Besides, having keyworded abilities allows you to give cards similarities. But very rarely does it make the two cards the same. You can look at a 3/3 flying, a 2/2 flying first strike, and a 1/1 flying, "Whenever a creature dies, you get a 0/1 Plant creature token with Defender," and say, "Hey, all these creatures have flying in common, but their other abilities give them their own uniqueness that makes them clearly different from each other."

>> No.26614215

>>26614174

> Destroy target creature with flying
> Artwork clearly shows it destroying creatures on the land

>> No.26614225

>>26614195
Don't pay more than $30 a box.

And yes, they're better than the original. The Prism build is amazing. Don't let anyone else tell you otherwise.

>> No.26614234

>>26614225
i meant buying singles
how much would it cost to build a good deck

>> No.26614263

>>26613003
I would actually really like this. I really couldnt care less about the lore but something like YGO would be cool.

>> No.26614271

>>26614234
Single clan EBs are actually a pretty good investment. One box can easily give you a workable deck, two can easily complete one.

But singles wise BT, like other most other clans, are on the cheaper side. Give sites like Cool Stuff Inc, Troll and Toad, or ideal808 a look.

>> No.26614275

>>26614188
>>26614215

How about stupidly high costed "Exile target permanent" on a tick?

>> No.26614291

>>26613003
I really really want real-life holodecks for M:tG. Like, a lot.
Maybe that's weird.

>> No.26614292

>>26614234
Expect to pay around $250 for the Prism build if you buy everything from scratch.

Just buy 4 boxes of EB06 and then buy the remaining singles that you need.

http://www.mcmgames.com/dazzling-divas/?sort=pricedesc

Verts are like $15 a pop, Labrador $18~20.

>> No.26614306

>>26614275
Well, the second ability might be a little helpful in that it can give a small buffer against mills.

>> No.26614320

>>26614225
>the card game basically consists of only anime girls and nothing else

I don't even

>> No.26614322

>>26614291
>holo-battlefield changes as you play different kinds of lands
>you can hold artifacts in your hand and actually "use" them
>throw counterspells at your opponent when you're casting them

MARVELOUS.

>> No.26614345

>>26614320
>Nothing but anime girls

Bitch please

>> No.26614382

>>26614275
That looks cool

>> No.26614400

>>26614320
It's also got dragons, knights, knight-dragons, an insectoid crime syndicate, belligerent angel nurses, anthropomorphic ninjas, a university filled with animals, ghost pirates, literal gundams, etc. etc. etc.

>> No.26614415

>>26614400
But why has that opened pack in the image only anime girls lying on the table?

>> No.26614429

>>26614415
Some Extra Booster sets are a single clan. Bermuda Tri are mermaid idol singers.

>> No.26614445

>>26614415
I think that's a trial deck

>> No.26614465

>>26614415
There are regular boosters with several factions in them, and Extra Boosters that contain cards from only a single faction. That particular Extra Booster was one for the mermaid idols clan.

There's a Under-the-sea Navy prettyboys faction too if you're in to that.

>> No.26615600

>>26610691
>what is Legendary supertype

>> No.26615664

>>26614199
The actual important thing other than text space is that it allows cards to interact with abilities. Plummet for example, kills creatures with flying.

>> No.26615710

>>26615600
I can have 4 copies of a Legendary creature in my deck.

Not sure what you're attempting to imply here.

>> No.26615734

>>26615710
Only one can be in play though, which lets effects that would be too powerful otherwise be put on undercosted cards.

That's why Thalia is Legendary after all.

>> No.26615757

>>26615734
Yeah, but that's not really the same thing.

>> No.26615779

>>26615757
Well if you have a card so good that everyone can only play one, all it does is turn deckbuilding into picking 59 cards instead of 60. It doesn't add much to the game.

Also, that's pretty much what Vintage is anyway.

>> No.26615819

>>26612731
Cold-Wave sets up OTK's like nobody's business and Dustshoot is hilarious dickery in cardform even better if you have Mind Crush to take advantage off it.

>> No.26615879

>>26613966
So YGO is Unglued/Unhinged?

>> No.26617853

What I never understood about Yu Gi Oh is what the fuck is the point of the MILLIONS of cards that were useless from the beginning on?
Like a 500 attack 100 defence monster, or a 1500 attack level 5 monster, or a "destroys one monster that has 500 attack or less" card.
That's not even power creep.
I guess it's just trash that fills up booster packs so that not every card you get is actually good?

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