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/tg/ - Traditional Games


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[ERROR] No.26277323 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

How does superhero RPG balance out discrepancies in power levels?

>> No.26277343

Porn parodies?

>> No.26277357

>>26277323
Look up some superhero RPGs sometime, maybe.

>> No.26277392

It doesn't. At least, Marvel Heroic doesn't. And it works better than most other Super Hero RPGs.

>> No.26277447

>>26277357
/thread

>> No.26277648

>>26277343
Vivid ~ kondoms everywhere

>> No.26277690

>>26277648
...I'm just now realising that there's basically no difference between pornstar aliases and the 'real' identity names of comic book superheroes.

>> No.26277700

>>26277323
>It's not an X.

>> No.26277738

The rules give players a lot of narrative freedom to balance out their screen time and success rates.

>> No.26277743

>>26277690
Googles wikip0rn0 for 'Clark Kent' and 'Diana Prince'

>> No.26277751

>>26277323
I honestly just want sauce on OP's pic.

>> No.26277826

>>26277392

I agree on this one. Marvel Heroic's solution is to simulate comic books, not superheroes, and does abilities broad enough that a Batman is just as capable and powerful as a Superman.

>> No.26277834

>>26277323
When is IronMan XXX: X-tremis? Haha

>> No.26277944

>>26277743
Ahahahaha.

>> No.26278190

>>26277751
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivid_Superhero

>> No.26278212

>>26277826
B... but doesn't Batman beat Superman's ass in one of the comic books?

>> No.26278253

>>26278212
Yeah. One.

>> No.26278274

>>26278212
I don't know, but he probably does in one of these films.

>> No.26278305

>>26277323
By making it "prep time" to be as relevant to combat as "krypton punch" - By focusing on the narrative tropes and action and not trying to emulate the powers as they come.


Example:
Marvel Heroic Roleplaying balances it perfectly. You can have Thor and Daredevil on the same party and both can do their own thing.

In a game like Champions, the power levels are set through points, so you will never see a god level character being equal to a blind martial artist, who will probably have all sorts of crazy gadgets.

That is not to say that Champions suck, but the only thing that is balancing on this situation is player creativty and GM fiat.

>> No.26278445

>>26278212
In one of the Superman/Batman comics they discuss this.

If no Kryptonite or intent to kill the other is involved, no one wins.

>> No.26278782

>>26278445
And the odds of one of them wanting to kill the other are rather low, considering that they're pretty much best friends. The only instance where a disagreement trumped their friendship was in Kingdom Come, and that's because Supes was going WAY too far. And even there, they worked their shit out in the end and went back to being bros.

>> No.26278851

>>26278782
Some alternate continuities have them hating each other.

Bruce really, really disliked Clark in Dark Knight Returns, for example.

>> No.26278925

>>26278851
>Bruce really, really disliked Clark in Dark Knight Returns

Not really. He had the same relationship with Clark throughout the years in that continuity. The difference was, at the point which the story takes place, Clark had sold out to the government and Bruce was in a really dark place.

>> No.26278941

>>26278925
that's it to say, Bruce didn't really dislike Clark, he was just pissed off and full of conviction

>> No.26279219

Characters should play to their roles and strengths so that everyone shines in their own way.

>> No.26279469

>>26279219
Why do they have two barrels?
I mean they're obviously styled after Vash's revolver, but why the hell did the artist screw it up and give them a six and a twelve instead of just the sexy six-o-clock?

>> No.26280065

>>26279469
Double the power in half the shots? Or maybe she has special bullets, one in each chamber, and she can vary her shots?

>> No.26281279

>>26277323

That Wonder Woman costume is frigging great

>> No.26281303

>>26278212
>B... but doesn't Batman beat Superman's ass in one of the comic books?

Two, actually. Out of the nine canon and noncanon times they've had to fight, whether due to mind control or shenanigans.

The other seven times didn't really end so well for Batsy.

>> No.26281363

>>26277323
Honestly? ...creativity.

You put a player with really good imagination as a character with no powers, I bet he'll be that one fuck that just rolls with the flow even though he's overpowered.
Batman > Superman

>> No.26281382

>>26281279
Isn't that Flashpoint Wonder Woman or sumfin?

>> No.26281440

>>26281382

Sort of, but it's also the modern Wonder Woman costume. Complete with weighted clothing and super mode.

>> No.26281455

>>26281440
>Rock Lee takes off his weights.jpg

>> No.26281461

>>26281279
It's incredible. The inside of the boobs must be entirely covered in tape.

>> No.26281462

>>26281440
I see! So, nudity makes you stronger on this planet!

>> No.26281484

>>26281461
Superhero outfits. Gotta love 'em.

>> No.26281501

>>26281455

Sort of. The modern Wonder Woman takes a few elements from the original Wonder Woman (except for the bondage, which is a shame), such as the fact that that Wonder Woman's bracelets were, in fact, power limiters that kept her from tearing everyone in half and fucking the remains.

They were power limiters for bondage reasons, so >>26281462 is right

>> No.26281533

>>26281501
>I'll brown his hash

>> No.26281557

>>26281484
That must be the strongest flimsy-shirt in the universe.

>> No.26281563

>>26281462
Yes, nudity makes you stronger. Just go out on the street some day, strip naked, and challenge people to wrestle. They will be so in awe of your great strength that they will avoid you out of fear!

>> No.26281593

>>26281501
So that's what Wonder Woman's actually like? AWESOME! Wonder Woman Gone Wild for greatest hero ever!

>> No.26281624

>>26281593
Wonder Woman without bondage is a crazy bitch. Who knew?

>> No.26281643

>>26281557
Don't forget catsuits.

>> No.26281690

>>26281624
>women without bondage are crazy bitches
Fixed that for ya.

>> No.26281701

>>26281624

Bondage is the only thing preventing her from ripping the world apart in an orgy of violence. Also, an orgy of orgies.

And considering how powerful the modern one is, there are only like three dudes on earth who could possibly stop her, and one of them is fucking her.

>> No.26281802

>>26281701
Does that make Wonder Woman a relavant character now? I know she's struggled for a long time being a decent character, especially considering she's supposed to be one of DC's big three alongside Supes and Bats.

>> No.26281858

>>26281802

She's only one of the "big three" because she, Supes, and Bats have been consistently published since the Golden Age. She's always had a hard time being relevant.

For example, for the past two years, the attempt to make her relevant consists entirely of making her Superman's cock sleeve.

They've put one of their best writers (Charles Soule) in charge of their duo book, and so far his ideas consist of

>Clark and Diana have sex
>Clark and Diana have sex WHILE FLYING

>> No.26281887

>>26281802
Wow thats a shitty costume design

>> No.26281901

>>26281858
Am I the only person who HATES when writers just kinda cram those two together?
It just always feels forced.

>> No.26281917

>>26281858
Okay, yeah, that's pretty bad.

>> No.26281937

>>26281901
I think people have justified it that Wonder Woman is the only one who can handle Supes's Kryptonian girth without snapping in two.
>but Lois Lane
>He has to restrain himself really hard.

>> No.26281939

>>26281887

It's really busy, yeah. The Wonder family has always had issues with changing their costumes.

>>26281901

It's only happened like, what, three times? Batman and Wonder Woman are shipped almost as much.

Although the most popular trinity-relationship is still Superman/Batman, for obvious reasons (because comic book fans like the dick).

>> No.26281994

>>26281937
That works as a joke(Man of Steel Woman of Kleenex is funny to this day) but it's far from a healthy reason for a relationship.
>>26281939
And not once has it been done well.

>> No.26282034

>>26281994
>That works as a joke(Man of Steel Woman of Kleenex is funny to this day) but it's far from a healthy reason for a relationship.

Well, Lois Lane is currently dating some perfectly nice normal guy. Once they stop pushing the kinda dumb Wonder Woman/Superman thing, the poor guy is probably going to die in some horrible supervillain tragedy.

Either that or Supes will hook up with his scientist chick.

>> No.26282036

>>26281701
Superman(the one fucking her), Martian Manhunter, and...Hal Jordan? Unsure on the last one as like most comic characters Green Lantern can fluctuate massively in power depending on who's writing him. One minute he's struggling with street level threats, the next minute most powerful weapon in the universe.

>> No.26282067

>>26282036

Hal Jordan's In Space right now, doing Ring Shit.

A pre-reboot Barry Allen could have stopped her, but Barry's been nerfed. Nearly got his head taken off by an angry teenage kryptonian girl.

Captain Atom would have been able to stop her, but he's busy being dead right now.

>> No.26282104

>>26281994
>Man of Steel Woman of Kleenex is funny to this day

No it' not and it never was, the only reason anyone even knows about it is it was written by Larry Niven, for some reason people take it as gospel because he writes sci fi novels. That's like trusting the opinion of a person who's only ever touched a knife on what the best pistol for is for concealed carry. They're both weapons but other than that they're not all that similar, same thing with Larry Niven's novels and Superman comics, they're both science fiction but that's where the similarities end.

>> No.26282127

>>26282067
>Nearly got his head taken off by an angry teenage kryptonian girl.

You say that like Supergirl isn't a credible threat when physically the only difference between her and her cousin is that she's shorter, has a vagina, and her hair's a different color.

>> No.26282140

>>26282104
>says it's not funny
>rants about why it's not accurate and why people "take it as gospel" while never providing a single reason it isn't funny
I have never met a single person who takes it seriously. It's a joke. You should really put some ointment on that butthurt.
And seriously? The mental image of the Kent house being full of little holes during Clark's teenage years? That doesn't make you chuckle, not even a little?

>> No.26282149

>>26282127

She also has the more powerful energy attack between the two of them

>> No.26282164

>>26282149

Although heat vision can get pretty out there

>> No.26282178

>>26282127
Didn't they make a big deal about Supergirl wearing shorts under her skirt because one of the directors told his artist "I don't ever want to see Supergirl's panties every again"? Apparently, Supergirl's panties is one of those things you just never, ever do.

>> No.26282196

>>26282104
I disagree in Mallrats it was kinda funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqwUdp5-2D8

>> No.26282200

>>26282149
The hell is that?

>> No.26282223

>>26282200

Solar Nova Explosion Attack

>> No.26282232

>>26282178
I wouldn't know, in any case it's no longer an issue as she now wears a red kryptonian armor diaper thing. Totally better than panties or shorts!

>> No.26282238

>>26282223
Sounds like something an anime character shouts.
>>26282222

>> No.26282244

>>26282223
Wait, she's an Exalt now?

>> No.26282249

>>26282244

obviously.

... a solar.

>> No.26282260

>>26282232

The armor diaper is totally an armor plate that can be removed so that the wearer doesn't have to push aside the whole unitard to use the bathroom.

It's worth noting that her father gave her the outfit. Jesus christ.

>> No.26282265

>>26282200
One of the new things that kryptonians can do in the Nu52, they can discharge stored solar energy in an omni directional blast. So far only Supergirl has used it but Clark and H'el should be able to do it as well.

>> No.26282274

>>26282244

Kryptonians have always been exalts

>> No.26282283

> everything should be balanced.

Not all men were created equally.

>> No.26282288

>>26282265

He'l had a different powerset due to what happened to him. Not as weird as Preus's, but still pretty weird.

>> No.26282298

>>26282244
Haven't they always been? Didn't the writers of Exalted list comic books as one of their inspirations?

>> No.26282299

>>26282265

eh, whatever.

slap some more dbz style energy attacks on them gitz.

>> No.26282303

>>26282283
No, all men were created equal. Some men are just more equal than others.

>> No.26282305

>>26282274
If Kryptonians are Solars, does that mean Steel is an Alchemical?

>> No.26282321

>>26282283

superhero games aren't everything.

or men.

>> No.26282326

>>26282299

It's really just heat vision, except coming out of her vagina.

And H'el had lightning powers.

And shit, Preus had NEGAVISION. The long and short of it is, Kryptonians are weird.

>> No.26282389

Daxamites 4eva

>> No.26282435

>>26282303
>>26282321

Isn't the extremely vociferous demand for balancing everything the cancer killing RPGs though?

Just a thought.

>> No.26282442

>>26282435

nope.

>> No.26282449

>>26282435
No, it's not. Considering the worst RPGs are always the least balanced ones.

>> No.26282455

>>26282305
Not unless he's transferred his mind and/or soul into his armor when I wasn't looking. Is Steel even still a thing for that matter?

>>26282389
Ah daxamites, the only race more xenophobic than kryptonians.

>> No.26282460

>>26282435

What? No. Shut up.

Take the two most popular editions D&D, 3.X and 4E. 3.X had notorious balance problems. 4E has better balance, but some players complained about homogenous class design.

Neither killed the industry.

Go away.

>> No.26282467

>>26282435

The problem is that, at the end of the day, people playing BMX Bandit are going to feel a bit put out if everyone else in the party is playing an Angel Summoner.

>> No.26282469

>>26282442
>>26282449

You sound quite sure about that.

How come balancing is such an issue in the first place?

>> No.26282479

>>26282455
>Is Steel even still a thing for that matter?

He hasn't gotten his armour yet, but he's around. Was military in the "five years ago" timeline, ex-military now.

>> No.26282490

>>26282469

because you want to be able to play on a concept, and when the system gives your a class that IS that concept, it should just work with everyone else.

>> No.26282506

>>26282490

Aren't some character concepts inherently going to be more powerful than others though?

>> No.26282525

>>26282506

not if you normalize for level.

>> No.26282538

>>26282506

Yes, but it's the difference between "Mighty Wizard" and "Ultimate Fighter" and "Mighty Wizard" and "faggot with a metal stick"

>> No.26282540

>>26282469
Because we want all players, regardless of general mechanical knowledge, to be able to participate in a game.

>> No.26282578

>>26282540

Well maybe that's what YOU want

>> No.26282581

>>26282506
In some respects, yes. That's when you have to get clever and offer opportunites for characters to play to their strengths. If a character excels at espionage (Black Widow) more than heavy-duty combat (Hulk), tell them that "This is a sneaking mission, Snake."

>> No.26282603

>>26282538
> ultimate fighter.
He's still just a fighter at the end of the day, though, whereas the wizard has unlocked the innermost secrets of reality.

Inb4 this turns into wizard vs. fighter faggotry.

>>26282525
You can participate in a game regardless of balance, bro.

>> No.26282613

>>26282578
I dislike the guy's design, but he has a nice scarf.

>> No.26282619

>>26282603

3.5 babby detected

>> No.26282623

>>26282581

But isn't that an example of how a lack of balance improves gameplay rather than diminishing it?

>> No.26282626

>>26282603
>You can participate in a game regardless of balance

>Sleep
>Colour spray

Okay, killmonkeys, now go clean up my mess

>> No.26282636

>>26282623
>But isn't that an example of how a lack of balance improves gameplay

No, you dumb faggot. Because the gameplay is still weighted to their strengths.

The problem is when a choice has no strengths.

>> No.26282639

>>26282619

Can we not surrender to tribalism between editions, please?

I couldn't give a shit about D&D.

>> No.26282657

>>26282636

So why does everything need to be balanced?

>> No.26282664

>>26282639
>I couldn't give a shit about D&D

You're using D&D examples, brah

You clearly give a shit about it

>> No.26282672

>>26282613
Honestly, (from what I observed the one time I met him in person) he's a really nice guy. And he comes up with neat fluff. Hell he went up to plate with the company to help Mearls and Windsor get Iron Heroes published.
He just can't crunch his way out of a paper bag.

>> No.26282675

>>26282623
"Power" as a concept is situational and subjective. When most people think of "power," they think physical prowess and combat might. But power can be expressed in different ways. Someone might be the king of sneaking and infiltration, while another is a social juggernaut. Those characters were built the same way but all go in wildly divergent directions. A good system should be able to accomodate for all of them.

>> No.26282684

>>26282664

> wizards and fighters only exist in D&D.

I think you need to get out more, brah.

>> No.26282691

>>26282603
>He's still just a fighter at the end of the day, though, whereas the wizard has unlocked the innermost secrets of reality.

And here's why you're a giant ass fuck. If at the end of the day a fighter is just a fighter, a wizard is a dude who casts magic missile. Levels mean something. If in your game all fighters are level 2, and all Wizards level 23, that's fine. But levels mean something.

>> No.26282706

>>26282657

Are you even reading what you type? Balance doesn't mean everyone performs equivalently. It means everyone has something to offer.

Like Black Widow being sneakier than the Hulk, who is punchier than Captain America, who is more tactical than Thor, etcetera.

The problem is when you have a member of the team who can't offer anything, like Batman. And then you have to either bend over backwards to make him relevant, or pretend he doesn't exist.

>> No.26282708

>>26282657
It's less headache for people involved, and more people can participate in more activities without being grossly overshadowed by others. Again, though, it's a matter of defining what "balance" is and not being wholly homogeneous.

>> No.26282714

>>26282691

Calm the fuck down, faggot.

>> No.26282722

>>26282714

>tripfag comes into thread in order to shit it up
>tells others to calm down

Classic

>> No.26282735

>>26281802
Not covered up enough I can still see her collarbone get it together DC you sexist fucks.

>> No.26282739

>>26282672
That's the common consensus around here. Strong fluff, ass crunch.

>> No.26282743

>>26282722

> implying I came here to shitpost.

Fuck off.

>> No.26282748

>>26282706
To be fair, Batman CAN contribute against supes-level threates without getting powered-up, the writers just don't let him. He IS the World's Greatest Detective, after all.
When the League take on a Superman-level foe, Batman should be hanging out on the satellite acting as their handler, coming up with plans, that kind of thing.

>> No.26282753

>>26282743

Calm the fuck down, faggot.

>> No.26282767

>>26282753

>>26282435

What part of "just a thought" was shitposting?

>> No.26282769

>>26282748
>When the League take on a Superman-level foe, Batman should be hanging out on the satellite acting as their handler, coming up with plans, that kind of thing.

That's the Martian Manhunter/Cyborg's job though. Batman is always on the ground for some stupid reason.

Kurt Busiek handled it a bit better, his Batman was the ops guy, not a ground fighter.

>> No.26282770

>>26282603
You know, in some games, when the fighter comes up to a dragon, he kills it, regardless of what spells it has, it's powers of flight, and it's breath weapons.

In other games, fighters>wizards. Shocking, but true.

>> No.26282788

>>26282770

Meanwhile, the wizard just bounces spells off its magic resistant hide because no matter how speshul your finger of death is, it's still not beating that dragon's MR at your level.

Icewind Dale 2 was hilarious.

>> No.26282789

>>26282748
Exactly. When you have a character that isn't necessarily as swole as the rest of the party but has smarts to save his skin, put him on overwatch and direct the battle.

>> No.26282797

>>26282770

That's kind of silly, though, unless the fighter has magic equipment or relevant dragon-killing feats.

>> No.26282799

>>26282603
you describe an epic level wizard and don't give the fighter epic level craziness. At the vary least he should be able to suplex baby dragons all day everyday. Even if the fighter type focuses on ranged attacks.

>> No.26282812

>>26282767
No. What is killing RPGs are people like you, who go out of your way to be an ass to people who don't deserve it. Because when you're an ass, no one wants to play with you, and you ruin the fun by making everyone else thing all RPG players are assholes.

That's what's killing lots of different hobbies.

>> No.26282817

>>26282799

> epic level fighter craziness.

So, internet-tier chuck norris?

>> No.26282820

>>26282789

The thing is, the Martian Manhunter was more swole than Superman AND had the smarts to coordinate the team. Also: psychic.

That's the whole reason in the reboot he's not part of the Justice League anymore. He was too crazy good.

>> No.26282837

>>26282812

> suggest something that goes against the general consensus. specifically state it is only a suggestion.
> get responded to with this kind of reactionary ass-pulling.

>> No.26282839

>>26282797
Why do you seem so shocked that it's possible at all? with your mind so closed to possibilities, it's no wonder this entire conversation is making you irritable.

>> No.26282840

>>26282812
This

>> No.26282842

>>26282817

>chuck norris

What is this, 2005?

>> No.26282856

>>26282839
>Why do you seem so shocked that it's possible at all?

Because of D&D 3.5, I imagine, where the core martial classes are useless fucks who sit on their thumbs.

>> No.26282876

>>26282839

I'm having difficulty understanding how a fighter's plateau of ability would compete with that of a different class, is all.

I mean, what is he going to do if for example he were exposed to cold vacuum?

>> No.26282888

>>26282876
WHY would the fighter be exposed to cold vacuum?

>> No.26282894

>>26282876

>cold vacuum

>> No.26282908

>>26282888
>>26282894

Why not?

It's fantasy, anything could happen.

>> No.26282909

>>26282888

Because the tripfag is making up scenarios weighted against "the fighter" to justify making his class for pussies? I dunno.

>> No.26282916

>>26282820
And Batman throws himself directly into the fray every time. Does he acknowledge that Martian Manhunter has the superior intellect? Does that still justify why Bats jumps into melee in every big fight?

>> No.26282930

>>26282909

brotip; I normally roll fighters, because I like coming up with inventive solutions that don't generally result in blasting everything with magic.

>> No.26282942

>>26282916
>And Batman throws himself directly into the fray every time

Because his best friend is there and he doesn't want to feel left out.

I imagine he misses the good old days when it was just them in their flamboyant outfits against the world

>> No.26282945

The true problem is the people playing these games are to smart for the game / smarter the the games creators.

>> No.26282946

>>26282908
That's the definition of a strawman, though: lifting up one exacting scenario where the original concept may fall apart just to prove that the whole thing falls apart. It's a tenuous justification at best and doesn't address the core question.

Speaking of which, what the hell WAS the core question?

>> No.26282957

>>26282946

He thinks balance is ruining RPGs, because he doesn't actually play RPGs.

>> No.26282960

>>26282876
>I'm having difficulty understanding how a fighter's plateau of ability would compete with that of a different class, is all.

>> No.26282966

>>26282946

I suggested the implication that there might be such a thing as "over" balancing.

>> No.26282973

>>26282876
The same thing th wizard will, which is die, because the wizard can't cast spells when he can't speak unless he's specced out for it, you know, like the fighter can be specced out to slay epic dragons or the thief to avoid unbeatable traps.

Your 'plateau of ability' is where your issue lies, because you can't think outside your box. An archer shot down seven suns in China. Chuchulain swam across the entirety of the black sea and then slew an army. Susano-O was mortal, and slew the nine headed dragon Yamato-no-Orochi with an ordinary sword. One fighter created a sword so sharp without magic that it would cut through anythign but the finest cognac.

Expose yourself to the actual myths and tales of the world, and not anecdotal games for a while.

>> No.26282974

>>26282820
The point still stands, though, that a good GM offers opportunities for the characters to play to their strength. The smart character gets put on overwatch while the heavy lifters do all the heavy lifting. It's true that Martian Manhunter was more swole, but the League valued him more on overwatch since he could do more there.

>> No.26282985

>>26282960

> herculean demi-god.

Shit. I guess my ordinary fighter-bro doesn't really stand much of a chance at all if that's what he's up against.

>> No.26283001

>>26282916
The writers are kind of stupid like that.

>> No.26283007

>>26282876
You mean the guy who can hold his breath no problem for 3 days?

Before you complain, some versions of Beowulf had him spending a week underwater fighting Grendal's Mother.

>> No.26283008

>>26282973

I put forwards the argument that all those are merely magicians with fighting abilities.

>> No.26283016

>>26282916
>Does he acknowledge that Martian Manhunter has the superior intellect?

>Batman
>in charge of ever admitting he's in the wrong

>> No.26283028

>>26283007

How the hell do you stat that?

>> No.26283030

>>26282985
And a magician with a few parlor tricks wouldn't stand up to a wizard that has "unlocked the innermost secrets of reality."

What's your point?

>> No.26283043

>>26282985
Ordinary fighter=apprentice wizard. Neither one is going to be fighting epic shit.

Epic wizard=epic warrior. Both will be killing dragons and epic creatures. The fact that you're stuck on some game trope specific to a few badly designed games is a mistake on your part, not on the part of people who are working on game balance.

>> No.26283053

>>26282067
What the fuck did they do to Captain Atom? I really like that dude, he's tied for second favorite captain with Captain Marvel.

>> No.26283055

>>26283008
I think that's missing the point of the post. His point was either that the "plateau" is higher than you think, or that you've misaligned the idea of the "plateau," considering that characters can be built any which way and will achieve separate peaks. They may not necessarily be the same peak as others, but it's still a unique peak.

>> No.26283067

>>26283053
>What the fuck did they do to Captain Atom?

He kind of died in Firestorm

He'll be back in a bit, though, he's basically a non-emo, actually powerful version of Doctor Manhattan.

>> No.26283073

>>26283043

Implying that people should be able to single-handedly kill dragons and daemons and what not as easily as you or I would wipe our brow.

>> No.26283081

>>26283028

I thought you were supposed to have imagination, mate

>> No.26283087

The fact that people think 2 classes can't be different unless one's stupidly more powerful than the other is depressing.

>> No.26283097

>>26283081

I do.

It's just that when it gets to a certain point I don't see how it's even possible to stat it.

>> No.26283099

>>26283087

Tripfags aren't known for their intelligence

>> No.26283103

>>26283073
What's to stop them?

>> No.26283117

>>26283103

Good roleplaying.

A DM who isn't willing to let his players shit all over his setting.

>> No.26283119

>>26283073
Epic level characters aren't just regular "people".

>> No.26283124

>>26283103

"Balance", apparently.

>> No.26283133

>>26283117

I see, so your idea of a good setting is one where the players can't affect the world.

Suddenly, the problem becomes clear.

>> No.26283134

>>26283119

Quite.

An epic level character is quite literally one in a million.

>> No.26283140

>>26283073
Why shouldn't I imply that? This is a game about superheroes, mythical warriors, wizards of power, priests whose gods speak through them, and other ultimate archetypes. If you want to play ordinary people doing ordinary things, play a 50 points GURPS game or play nWoD core and never introduce any supernatural elements.

At this point, you're not merely being obtuse, you're being obstructionist, and that's just bad gaming. You should be ashamed of yourself. You won't be because clearly you have no idea what you're doing is stupid.

>> No.26283144

>>26283133

> can't effect the world.

By themselves, no.

>> No.26283145

>>26283134
Exactly. SO what's the issue with one suplexing dragons as part of his regular morning workout?

>> No.26283147

>>26283117
>A DM who isn't willing to let his players shit all over his setting.

I know, who lets random people just walk up to a cave and kill the shit out of a dragon without using their super special magic?

>> No.26283150

>mfw this retard doesn't know there's a whole host of games out there where you're not playing regular people

i.e. most of them

>> No.26283160

>>26283140

> you should be ashamed of yourself.

Fuck off.

>> No.26283164

>>26283144

Why not? They're playing superheroes, wizards, great warriors, cybertech fuckfaces.

Shooting important people in the face is part and parcel of the job.

>> No.26283169

>>26283145

The issue is when you have an entire party of people suplexing dragons as part of their regular morning workout.

>> No.26283174

This thread is proof that 4th ed is the best edition. Everyone is balance and perfectly matched

>> No.26283176

>>26283169
>The issue is when you have an entire party of people suplexing dragons as part of their regular morning workout

Why is that a problem at all?

>> No.26283180

>>26283144
The PCs are meant to be the most important individuals in their story. What's to say they can't become the most important people in the setting, too? If the players want to kill a dragon and can get away with it, let them.

>> No.26283182

>>26283169
How is that an issue at all?

>> No.26283184

>>26283174

Not really. Vampire, for example, is complete and total ass.

>> No.26283185

>>26283160
I love watching Fighter vs Wizard fights since I am rolling a half dragon fighter/barbarian and plan on rape training every fucker I come across

>> No.26283189

>>26283176

Epic level characters are one in a million.

So why are there suddenly six epic level characters walking about together?

>> No.26283193

>>26283185

I hope you're only dipping three levels of fighter

>> No.26283195

>>26283008
No, because in those same myths, there were magicians - Math, who created a woman of flowers to wed his son, the scholar who slew the animal spirits responsible for the murders in a town he passed through, the spiritualist who laid to rest the oni who caused the earthquakes in the cities of ancient Japan....they were not warriors.

Your arbitrary designation of what is and is not magical does not mean the myths were not told without references to non-magical mythological characters achieving magnificent feats. That's a flaw in your thinking, not in the myths.

>> No.26283196

>>26283169
Why's that an issue?

>> No.26283198

>>26283184
>Essentials, for example, is complete and total ass.

Fixed that for you bro, no need to thank me.

>> No.26283199

>>26283189
>So why are there suddenly six epic level characters walking about together?

Because they leveled up. Duh.

Did you suddenly forget you were playing a game?

>> No.26283205

>>26283198

What does essentials being total ass have to do with vampires also being total ass

>> No.26283208

>>26283193
4 I want that one last bonus feat then into barbarian till I qualify for frenzied berserker and just get angry at everything that exists

>> No.26283209

>>26283189
Because they all reached the epic levels together.

You remember this is still a game right?

>> No.26283211

>>26283144
You don't play high power games do you? Level 20 Pathfinder characters are god like in their power and should have equivalent influence. These are people that can take solo crusades into the Abyss. Overthrowing a mundane kingdom is childs play to them.

To put it in Superhero game terms. A level 20 sorcerer would be over 1500 points in champions. And there is almost no superhero a character with that power can't defeat

>> No.26283217

>>26281501

NAZIS HAVE HUGE GUTS! RIP AND TEAR!

>> No.26283220

>>26283199

By the time they reach that point they should be pretty much in charge of everything and the entire world should be at their command.

Otherwise it's just ridiculous that anything - even fucking dragons - would try and pick a fight with them rather than fleeing or surrendering.

>> No.26283224

>>26283208

That bonus feat is okay I guess but what are you going to put it into

>> No.26283228

>>26283195
That's an important point to make: when creating your setting, make sure to lay the ground rules of the setting so that everything can remain internally consistent within those rules. And when you fuck up and do something that breaks those rules, others can call you on it.

>> No.26283230

>>26283160
Struck a nerve, did I? You can't claim to be a good player and then try and convince people 'balance is bad and there should never be a comparison between epic wizards and epic fighters because I'm right and you're all stupid'. You're being assinine and being told what's what is what assinine people get.

>> No.26283233

>>26283211

Then why would anything even bother fighting them unless it was incredibly retarded?

>> No.26283236

>>26283205
The vampire class was part of Essentials or at the very least used the same design style as it. And while there's no need to thank me, I suppose you still could if you wanted to.

>> No.26283242

>>26283220
Some creatures -- especially dragons, I'd imagine -- still have their pride.

>> No.26283246

>>26283220
>By the time they reach that point they should be pretty much in charge of everything and the entire world should be at their command

But the world is full of demon lords and archdevils, ancient dragons and their armies, powerful wizards and great warlords. Also, celestials. And whatever else your DM wants to throw at you to keep things fun.

You've just never played an RPG at all, have you? You're one of THOSE fa/tg/uys.

>> No.26283247

>>26283220
I'm assuming they're hunting dragons down for the first part of the morning routine, then suplexing them during the next.

>> No.26283248

>>26283224
Depends. My thoughts are leap attack shock trooper or combat brute

>> No.26283249

>>26281802

Well she was pretty bro when the new 52 started, but lately...

>> No.26283251

>>26283230

I never said I was right or that everyone was stupid.

Congratulations on being a humongous asshat.

>> No.26283262

>>26283246

When you can go toe to toe with the most powerful beings imaginable, it is no longer fun.

>> No.26283266

>>26283262
Why?

Going to to toe with them implies they're still a challenge.

>> No.26283268

>>26283233
See >>26283242.
A good example was Captain America vs. Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet. Cap knew he was going to lose, but he was gonna fight him anyway.

>> No.26283271

>>26283262

I see, so you're using your arbitrary definition of fun to dictate everyone else's fun.

Congratulations, you're that guy.

>> No.26283273

>>26283067
>implying DocHattan wouldn't be top tier even in 52
PsychoPirate plz. He's an unkillable Firestorm.

Anyway I liked the Justice League Unlimited version of Captain Atom where he was a fucking walking nuclear reactor brawler from Hell pseudosuperman in the service of the US Army.

>> No.26283280

>>26283249

I don't see what's wrong with that sequence.

It's Orion. He's a god and has a cuckolding fetish, among other thigns.

>> No.26283281

>>26283251
>>26283262
I like how you posted these back to back.

2/10 you made me reply.

>> No.26283290

>>26283251
Then stop acting like you're statements are literal fact and that people can't be correct without your permission.

>> No.26283297

>>26283271

I see you're determined to ridicule the position of anyone who disagrees with you.

Nice attitude you've got there.

>>26283266

Why would a being of supreme intelligence and might pick a fight he wasn't absolutely sure he was going to win?

>> No.26283303

>>26283290

Am I actually doing that, or is it just the confrontational manner that i'm being shown that's forcing to me to respond in a tit-for-tat manner?

>> No.26283306

>>26283246
And those are the things you face at those higher levels. Because they threaten what you have rulership over. Be it from evil liches starting shit or some angelic crusade going after the abominations that are level 20 characters Because face it. There are no "normal" level 20 characters

But other than these other very powerful beings, what you says goes.

>> No.26283316

>>26283189
>So why are there suddenly six epic level characters walking about together?
Why do the Avengers assemble when Galactus threatens the earth?

>> No.26283318

>>26283273
>PsychoPirate plz. He's an unkillable Firestorm.

Not really. His best feat involves mass teleportation, which is cool and all, but not very impressive on the DCU's scale of things. And he can reform himself.

His best offense in the book was using his energy beam to melt tanks, asians, and unbathed homeless ginger superheroes. Which for some reason impressed people who only watched the movie: WOW, HE CAN BLOW UP MOBSTERS AND VIETNAMESE SOLDIERS AND TAKE APART A TANK

HE MUST BE SUPER POWERFUL GUYS

>> No.26283325

>>26283280
It's context, yes, but that still doesn't change that Wondie is using sexual assault and sexual torture to demand respect, and that's not cool in my book. There's better ways to command respect, I'd like to think.

>> No.26283327

>>26283297
Who said it was supremely intelligent?

Or perhaps it was his wisdom dumpstat that ruined him

>> No.26283329

>>26283316

Why do the avengers eventually start fighting amongst themselves?

Hell, when it gets to that point I'd probably start even encouraging PvP.

>> No.26283332

>>26283325

The comic is written by Azzarello. You're not gonna get better.

He's primarily a crime book writer. When he tries to write cape books it doesn't work so well.

>> No.26283340

>>26283316
ONLY the Hulk might be able to stand up to level 20 D&D characters.

They are more in the 10-15 range i would say

>> No.26283342

>>26283327

Are we going for one of those universal evil manifestations here?

What happens after you beat that?

>> No.26283345

>>26283297
Ask the gamemaster. That's the reason he exists. If you got to chose whom picked fights with whom you'd be the gamemaster, not a player.

You're challenges are basically statements of "I think wizards would be superior to all other characters because I say so," and the answers you are getting are along the lines of "you're being a douchebag and an idiot, please stop acting like you know anything about gaming" and you seem shocked and surprised by it.

>> No.26283350

>>26283329
>high-level characters should spontaneously be self-destructive
Why?

>> No.26283358

>>26283345

Implying you're not just surrendering to tribalism because you've convinced yourself you're right.

>> No.26283360

>>26283340
>ONLY the Hulk might be able to stand up to level 20 D&D characters.

What? Thor is a cosmic. His god blast alone can nuke a planet.

And yes, I know god blast sounds stupid. But it's something he does.

>> No.26283370

>>26283329
After reading all this shit you have posted, i have found you to be one of those people i absolutely fucking hate. You are lacking in imagination and understanding of mythology, your pathetic arguments reflect this.

>> No.26283371

>>26283358

And you can't even greentext correctly. Bravo, tripfag, you truly are the greatest shitposter on /tg/ right now.

>> No.26283374

>>26283360
Alright, him too then.

But the rest are chumps

>> No.26283377

>>26283350

Because there's nothing else for them to do.

They're essentially powerful enough to challenge the gods, and once they challenged the gods and presumably won there would be nothing else for them to do except fight amongst themselves for dominance.

>> No.26283388

>>26283303
That would imply you're not being confrontational as well as acting in a supremely assinine manner. Take

>Why would a being of supreme intelligence and might pick a fight he wasn't absolutely sure he was going to win?

This is an assinine statement, because you know exactly why if you played any game whatsoever - for whatever reason he isn't given a choice. It's not a game if there isn't a challenge.

>> No.26283390

>>26283377

>Challenging the gods
>at 20th level

I think you should actually play an RPG before mouthing off

>> No.26283400

>>26283374

And Wonder Man could do it too. But everyone hates Wonder Man for some reason.

>> No.26283401

>>26283370
>>26283371

Why is it impossible for you two to respond in an impartial manner?

>> No.26283413

>>26283390

Ah, so you admit there should be limits.

That's all I wanted to hear.

>> No.26283414

>>26283401

Because replying to you is like replying to a particularly persistent, know-it-all 12 year old.

>> No.26283420

>>26283377
For some reason I imagined Wrestlemania but with Gods acting and dressed up as Pro Wrestlers.

Yahweh wins

>> No.26283422

>>26283377
Until something else crops up for them to fight, a la "Creatures of Light and Darkness" by Zelazney, Galactus, the Negaverse, etc.

For every scenario, there can be a reason.

>> No.26283425

>>26283358
Dear fucktard, LEVELS MEAN THAT THEY ARE FUCKING EQUIVALENT YOU SHITPOSTING TURDGURGLER. A level 20 wizard has the same fucking power as a level 20 fighter, especially in settings with magic as a force of nature. And this bullshit about fighters being like normal people and not magical is something that is completely divorced from myth.

>> No.26283426

>>26283377
Or they could oversee their doman?
Or they could retire?
Or they could write a book?

>> No.26283433

>>26283414

Then why are you replying unless you're determined to prove that you're right?

>> No.26283434

>>26283413
>Ah, so you admit there should be limits

No, I admit you don't know dick about the RPGs you're talking about. Trying to challenge the gods at 20th level means you're going to get your ass handed to you.

You need to wait until well into epic levels to try and unseat them.

>> No.26283435

>>26283340
What kind of power are we talking here cause the hulk can lift a mountain, and has no upper limit to his strength, he's limitless. The flash is also the most broken character ever.

The way the flash's mary sue speedforce works means that theoretically he could move fast enough to punch every single point in the known universe with the power of an exploding sun all at the same fucking time.

>> No.26283437

>>26283413
>I'm right because someone agrees with me, yay!

>> No.26283447

>>26283435

Of all the Flashes, technically only Wally can do that, and only when using his Spirit Bomb.

>> No.26283451

>>26283437

That's ultimately all I was asking for, though.

>> No.26283456

>>26283433
Actually, most people replying to you are trying to help you understand, which is obviously pointless since you're pretending to be willfully ignorant.

Which makes you worse than someone who is genuinely stupid, by the by.

>> No.26283460

>>26283434
That does sort of imply a limit, to be truthful. Not that I think that's the point he's fishing for, but whatever. You COULD challenge the gods at 20. It might not end well for you, though.

>> No.26283463

>>26283433

I'm replying because you're a moron and I'm hoping to make you see reason. Which is unlikely, given your posts so far, but greater miracles have happened.

>> No.26283480

>>26283435
Timestop, grease, prismatic shere

Flash unfreezes, slips on grease right into the prismatic shere. Or if he manages to not slip and turn around, he still hits the prismatic sphere. Just for fun you can do a delayed blast fireball in there too

>> No.26283481

>>26283456

It's hard to understand anything when people aren't actually saying anything other than "you're a moron" and "a shitposting turdgugler" while missing the point.

>> No.26283484

>>26283451
Except he wasn't agreeing with you in the way you wanted him to. Which means you'll spit a whole bunch of other stupid nonsense trying to make people say things that make you seem correct.

I'd love to see your face when someone runs an Amber Diceless game. The very concepts would make you retch.

>> No.26283485

>>26283447
And only when the writers aren't nerfing the fuck out of him.
>perceives the world in attoseconds
>still gets clotheslined because he's running too damn fast

>> No.26283489

>>26283480
and then he outruns death.

I'm not joking.

>> No.26283490

>>26283318
>Not really. His best feat involves mass teleportation, which is cool and all, but not very impressive on the DCU's scale of things. And he can reform himself.
What the fuck are you even talking about? He's telekinetic, borderline omniscient, can turn into a giant, atomize anybody and anything, can split himself apart and, again, is fucking unkillable.

What character in the DC universe that is not a time traveller or a reality bender could beat him? What character that's not a time traveller or reality bender could realistically even slow him down?

>> No.26283492

>>26283460
>It might not end well for you, though.

It's not going to at all, unless you're fighting one of those shitty Divine Rank 1-5 gods with no real goddiness to their name, like Iuz.

It's actually possible to take down Iuz prior to 20th level, as long as you're careful and the GM is playing him like a moron.

>> No.26283493

>>26283484

I don't care if other people think i'm right or not, bro.

>> No.26283497

>>26283460
Well, yeah. Just like you COULD challenge the lich at lvl 1.

>> No.26283504

>>26283492
Do you speak from experience?

>> No.26283517

>>26278305
Although with the same points, you could have batman and superman; one with the mega stats, the other with so much money, resources, contacts and gadgets that he does his job that way.

>> No.26283531

>>26283489
Yeah. Death has a special avatar specifically for catching speedsters in the DC universe.
Flash outran THAT.
Specifically, by running through time to the death of universe when all life has ended and death has no purpose. Death disintegrated.

>> No.26283532

>>26283490
>He's telekinetic

So's the Martian Manhunter.

>borderline omniscient

Which is meaningless in the Watchmen universe, because it was a deterministic setting. his omniscience didn't mean jack.

>can turn into a giant

Yes, and?

>atomize anybody and anything

Hahaha, nope. You're extrapolating this ability from him messily tearing apart hobo. Congratulations.

> can split himself apart and, again

So can Jamie Madrox.

>and, again, is fucking unkillable

That's the only real asset he would have in the DC or Marvel universes, and and we don't even know if he's actually unkillable - Ozymandias tried to kill him using the same process which created him, which is retarded. That's like throwing Superman into the sun and expecting him to die and not, you know, just come back on fire.

>> No.26283534

I know everyone wants their universe of favor to have the strongest whatever but the Flash.

The Flash is the most broken retarded thing ever created. He could end your entire universe instantly if he felt like it.

>> No.26283535

>>26283493
So you are just a moronic troll. How perfectly encapsulating of being a tripfag without a name.

>> No.26283543

>>26283489
>and then he outruns death

Again, of the Flashes, only Wally has outrun Death.

Wally and Barry did it again, but only for long enough to guide it to Darkseid. Wally outran Death to the end of time.

>> No.26283549

>>26283535

At least i'm not trying to turn the thread into an echo chamber.

>> No.26283550

>>26283481
Your "point" is that you can't see anything other than your gameplay as correct and proper and everything else is nonsensical bullshit. You're the one fostering this image by not actually replying to counterpoints but instead trying to use strawman arguments and repeated comments of "but that doesn't make sense in my particular worrldview" as factual arguments.

>> No.26283556

>>26283517
Depends on DM still. I'm about to run Champions and one of the players put a lot of points into real world influence (He is secretly the DA). So I have to make his influence, detective skills and legal power come into play.

If they aren't then you don't make them cost points. Right out of the HERO book. Skills that won't come up shouldn't cost anything

>> No.26283557

>>26283485
>perceives the world in attoseconds
>Deathstroke tricks him into running into his blade

>> No.26283562

>>26283493
Then why are you trying to convince other people they're wrong by asking questions that they've a) already answers and b) make you look like an idiot?

>> No.26283563

>>26283531
Talk about jumping the shark. Why would the writers even go so far?!

>> No.26283564

>>26283504

Oh no, we nearly got TPK'd. Our DM wasn't playing him like a moron. It's Iuz, after all. He's prideful, not stupid.

>> No.26283570

>>26283550

I even fucking said it myself; "inb4 this turns into wizard vs. fighter faggotry.

>>26282603

>> No.26283573

>>26283543
There one needs to be one person that can do it to make him the most broken thing in all of fiction.

No one's arguing that there's more than one Wally, and when they say "The Flash" in these power threads, they mean that faggot.

>> No.26283577

>>26283556
yeah, I was taking that into account.
200 points of Superhuman vs 200 points of "this influence and these skills and this equipment matters" can get you quite the toolbelt.

>> No.26283579

>>26283557

That was Wally. Wally has a problem with braking.

Barry is the one in that panel.

>> No.26283586

>>26283562

Because they're not answering the question I was asking.

>> No.26283592

>>26283563
Don't forget when Flash outran instantaneous teleportation.

>> No.26283603

>>26283485
Everything written about comic book heroes is fucking stupid, both their nerfs and their power ups.

>> No.26283605

>>26283592

That was Wally, and he was using his spirit bomb. It's not something he can normally do.

>> No.26283606

>>26283586
Which was what?

>> No.26283614

>>26283557
I assume when you're secretly the the Alpha and the Omega of all fictional power levels you just kinda do whatever you feel like at the time to keep things interesting.

>> No.26283623

>>26283606

The way I phrased it was as a question, but ultimately the implication was that there was such a thing as a setting being "over-balanced".

Before I could even bat an eye, I found myself set upon by people thinking they knew what was best.

>> No.26283624

>>26283614

He also got his legs torn off during the Obsidian Age, so there's that

>> No.26283629

>>26283603

sounds like someone's still butthurt about that screwattack video

>> No.26283630

>>26283557
Thats Deathstroke. He kills people on the meta level

>> No.26283631

>>26279469
A lot of artists draw the guide rail to look exactly like an extra barrel, for whatever reason. Also it could be the gun fires two bullets, only having three rounds of doubleshot, which would be cool.

>> No.26283636

>>26283592
I'm not an expert on The Flash. I don't mind him being fast, but maybe the writers made him to fast. Braking reality, out running Death and all.

>> No.26283638

>>26283623
"Over-balance" as a concept doesn't make logical sense, you know that right?

>> No.26283652

>>26283636
Yes, they did make him too fast

>> No.26283654

>While most to all speedsters can make a connection and draw upon this force, West "mainlines" power from the Speed Force itself and cannot be cut off from the source. This connection to the Speed Force allows him additional abilities than other speedsters, such as lending and taking speed (which manifests in different ways, ranging from becoming speedsters themselves to bolstering others metabolisms and healing abilities, allowing them to recover from injuries in a fraction of the normal time), as well as absorbing kinetic energy in a less direct manner; he once absorbed the kinetic energy of the entire planet Earth while standing at the North Pole when his teammates were forced to move the planet to prevent possible earthquakes. Wally has also found a way to create a costume out of pure Speed Force energy.

>> No.26283655

>>26283605
You keep mentioning this spirit bomb.

>> No.26283658

>>26283638

Maybe you're not open-minded enough about it.

I mean, at the end of the day it's just a game, right?

>> No.26283671

>>26283636

Well, that new DC animated movie kind of points out that casual time travel is a terrible fucking idea

>>26283655

Borrow speed from FUCKING EVERYTHING

>> No.26283674

>>26283629
I have no idea what you're on about. Comic book heroes and their powers are still fucking stupid. There's a constant escalation, driven possibly by the desire to one-up the last guy.

>> No.26283682

>>26283623
So you started with a shitty and poorly worded rhetorical question which you didnt repeat for us. And you are proclaiming the question as perfectly sensible and all the others are dumb for trying to debunk your stupidity.

>>26283658
You smarmy little shit. If i could i reach through the internet and slap the smug little grin you must be wearing right now.

>> No.26283689

>>26283636
It's called power creep and "made him too fast" is a bit of an understatement at this point.

>> No.26283692

>>26283674
>There's a constant escalation

Not really, no. The Flash is currently at the slowest he's been in nearly thirty years, for example.

>> No.26283695

>>26283658
No, I mean "over-balance" is nonsensical. Something is either in balance in reference to a certain point or it is not. There is no way to have excessive balance.

>> No.26283698

>>26283674

I think this is one of the videos that he's referring to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyl97TG8jbA

>> No.26283707

>>26283623
So your question as there was suh a thing as over balanced, but you tried to make it so that the comparison read like a 3.5 fighter vrs a 3.5 wizard was what isn't 'overbalanced' and you're surprised you got treated like an idiot child.

No, there is no such thing as over-balancing.

>> No.26283716

>>26283692
I see, surely super hero comics are not dumb because the flash is slow for a change. That changes everything.

>> No.26283717

>>26283707

No, it's a troll. Why are you still replying to the tripfag?

>> No.26283728

>>26283682

Are you the guy I was talking to?

I don't think so.

>>26283695

It depends on what that certain point is being referenced to, I guess.

Sort of like something that the game needs to be balanced around.

>> No.26283732

>>26283716

I'm pointing out that there is, in fact, not a constant escalation. Rather, their abilities jump all over the place because one writer doesn't like what the other writer did, for example.

>> No.26283739

>>26283532
I like how you neener neener about how omniscience ain't shit since the Watchmen U is deterministic and for some reason that means it won't work in a totally different universe which probably isn't. All the while you imagine atomizing Batman or even Superman is fundamentally different from atomizing Rorschach or a tank. Face it, he's a fucking hoss and there's no real way to neutralize him.

Also fuck you Veidt's idea was sound. If you've got a better idea on how to kill Manhattan that doesn't involve magic I'd love to hear it.

>> No.26283745

>>26283707

I didn't try anything of the sort.

Sorry if you over-reacted.

>> No.26283752

If I could have the powers of any character in fiction I'd pick Wally, simply amazing.

By the way, every woman on earth is now pregnant with my child.

>> No.26283755

>>26283671
Wondie has a very angular head.

>> No.26283758

>>26283732
Thank you. Perhaps I can say, instead, that comic books are a near constant escalation in the stupidity of their writers before the reset button is hit.

>> No.26283760

>>26283689
That damn power creep is in everything now a days!

What every happened to Flash just running fast and fighting Captain Cold.

>> No.26283770

>>26283760
The same nerds have been buying comic books for 30 years so they can't recycle stories without A NEW COOL TWIST

>> No.26283774

>>26283760
Captain Cold is a bit more encompassing. He can control kinetic energy as well, now, except he does it in the opposite direction the Flash does.

>> No.26283781

>>26283728
RPGs are ostensibly balanced around a point of equitable contribution toward in-game goals.

>> No.26283786

>>26283739
>for some reason that means it won't work in a totally different universe which probably isn't

Of course it won't. Do you even know how Doc Manhattan's "omniscience" works? He remembers everything that has, is happening, and will happen to him. It's not only crippled due to him being in a deterministic universe, it's even more problematic because it's limited only to his experience.

If you were to transplant him to a non deterministic universe, like the DCU, he'd just end up like poor Dajjal.

>> No.26283799

>>26283781

>still replying to the troll

They keep score, you know. That's what the tripcodes are for: so they can keep track of threads they've shit up and add it to their scoreboard.

>> No.26283810

>>26283781

I get that, sure.

Sort of like a meritocracy, right?

>> No.26283817

>>26283799

Actually having a tripcode would make it easier for me to be banned, if you think about it.

>> No.26283826

>>26283774
So Captain Cold is the Kinetic anti-Flash? No freeze gun?

What happened to my childhood cartoon characters?

>> No.26283833

>>26283826
WE'RE SERIOUS NOW

>> No.26283837

>>26283810
with that post, it is now officially clear that you have never actually played an RPG.

>> No.26283840

>>26283826
Pretty sure he still has the freeze gun. Don't quote me on that.

>> No.26283848

>>26283826
>No freeze gun

That very freeze gun used to rob kinetic energy from things he pointed it at, which is how it dropped things to absolute zero in the first place.

It has been that way for nearly THIRTY YEARS, grandpa.

>> No.26283856

>>26283786
I lingered on the thought of powers that have no limit and the impossible feats and immeasurable strength of every single one of them that would branch out into catastrophic results for the person using them.

Someone with the power to "know" everything for example, in order to even make use of a power like that you'd need to be able to block off the ability and scale it down to certain levels.

>> No.26283865

>>26283837

I've played plenty, and i've been involved in some high-level games too.

What i'm addressing here is the consensus on which the typical game is based on, that's all.

I'll forgive you for trying to make me look ignorant, though.

>> No.26283892

>>26283865
I really dont believe you. That you wouldnt understand that most basic of concepts completely sealed a suspicion that I had about your arguments.

>> No.26283893

>>26283865
>I've played plenty, and i've been involved in some high-level games too

Don't bother replying, guys

>> No.26283895

Did someone say something about Flash' bullshit powers?

Because he build an apartment building from the ground up after running to a local library and reading every book they had on how to do that.

But I do wonder where he got the materials to do so: did he get them from companies that sell that stuff, dropping cash on the counter while taking off with a few pallets of bricks? Or did he make them out of GOES FAST?

>> No.26283908

>>26283848
>grandpa
I'm not even thirty years old. 27. I just never read up on Captain Cold, or DC characters much for that matter.

>> No.26283921

>>26283908

How can you be 27 and yet have caught Superfriends when it was airing? You'd have been a tiny babby when it finally ended.

>> No.26283930

>>26283745
I wasn't overreacting I was respondng to your comments and questions, and you seemed annoyed that I was giving commentary on your attitude when you seemed pissed off that people were treating you like the idiot you were making yourself out to be.

There is no overbalance, because an overbalance would be categorized as imbalance if one thing took precedence over another, while it would be a non-concept if there was balance.

>> No.26283932

>>26283893

What does ponyfaggots have to do with it?

>>26283892

The problem is that although I've played plenty of games i've never really questioned the thinking behind what the DM was doing or why the rest of the players were going along with it.

There's been a few times where i've thought something was wrong but kept my mouth shut out of interests of keeping the game running smooth.

>> No.26283950

>>26283930

Giving people the benefit of the doubt is a matter of common courtesy.

If I get none, it's quite difficult for me to come back from that.

>> No.26283967

>>26283950
This 4chan you cum guzzling nerfherder. Expect insults.

>> No.26283982

>>26283967

This is /tg/.

I expected better.

>> No.26283983

>>26283921
I was like 6-8 I think at the time. Cartoon network played good shows back in the day.

>> No.26284026

>>26283982
Im sorry, but where I come from and the way I was raised and the way me and my friends are, insults are par for the course. So no, Im going to use colorful language all I want and there is no way for you to make me stop.

>> No.26284040

>>26284026

Well you can go fuck a duck, then.

>> No.26284062

>>26284026
I'm sorry you where raised a degenerate.

>> No.26284063

>>26283895
He probably went back in time to the start of the universe and fostered the fucking materials in their growth over time until every atom in every single thing in that God damn building was arranged to be as perfectly lined up and set as it could be.

>> No.26284084

>>26283921
I'm 25 and I remember watching a lot of Superfriends too, but how is fuzzy...

I want to say... sneaking up and watching ridiculously late night TV had something to do with it...

>> No.26284086

>>26283810
A meritocracy is something entirely different.

I you want to reward good roleplayers by giving them extra abilities and powers and punish bad ones by giving them crappy abilities and no options as a GM, go right ahead.

You are contextually inept.

>> No.26284098

>>26283982
You expected wrong. /tg/ is not somehow divorced from the rest of 4chan for all the '/tg/ is best board' delusion that has been rampant here recently. There's not a board on this site that won't call you a nigger.

>> No.26284110

>>26284086

It's not just about rewarding players, it's about understanding how games should actually be run.

How loosely one should play by the rules, for example.

>> No.26284115

>>26284062
Well, being white trailer trash and a ginger doesnt exactly make for a refined aristocratic bearing. Also, colorful language is much funner and requires a certain amount of wit, for example see one Mark Twain.

>> No.26284138

>>26283950
Phrasing your leading questions in an antagonistic and deliberately stupid manner designed to insult the intelligence and validity of others is a lack of courtesy on your part. Attempting to lead people around by the nose to get them to the answer you want to hear is also incredibly rude and insulting. The lack of courtesy was mutual.

>> No.26284146

>>26284138

> antagonistic and deliberately stupid.

Which I didn't actually do.

>> No.26284154

>>26284098

>> No.26284194

>>26284084
yay I did that a lot too. I miss Apache Chief in all this new shows.

>> No.26284202

>>26284110
That has nothing to do with meritocracy, then and asking if it was a meritocracy was misleading and incorrectly phrased on your part then.

What you probably should have asked was "what if the GM doesn't abide by the balance encouraged by the rules" in which case the answer would have been "bad GM has nothing to do with the rules."

There is a great deal of gap between your attempts at intellectualism and what actually passes for intelligence. You need to stop being deliberately obtuse because the more obtuse you sound and act the less likely it is you will get actual answers to your implied questions.

>> No.26284214

>>26284146
You don't think you did. Subjectively, you were being a moron.

>> No.26284228

>>26284202

Implying that anyone in actuality follows the rules to the letter.

Implying i'm trying to be intellectual.

Implying i'm being obtuse.

>> No.26284243

>>26284214

Subjectively everyone's a moron, though.

>> No.26284273

>>26284243
Yeah well OBJECTIVELY ur a faggot, faggot.

lol #rekt

>> No.26284289

>>26284273

>> No.26284299

>>26284228
>>26284243
I'm guessing you're new here? Only been here maybe a short time, possibly only since summer began? Because you are making me feel shame on your part for being so dumb.

here its
>implying
with this
>

Also, you are not as smart as you think you are and if you think your pretty smart may I introduce Monsieurs Dunning and Kruger

>> No.26284300

>>26284273

Objective truth doesn't exist, and if it did it would exist only as a single instance, unique from everything else.

I think we all know who the real faggot is here.

>> No.26284311

>>26284299

Implying that all implications have to be suggested in green text.

>> No.26284339

>>26284300
...u?

lol

>> No.26284344

>>26284339

No no, the point is that go back to reddit.

>> No.26284353

>>26284300
Yeah, you're dumb. Objective truth exists, it's called science. Science is the best approximation of objective truth we have.

>> No.26284358

>>26284300
It is you. You are the real faggot.

>> No.26284359

>>26284353

Science of sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

>> No.26284376

>>26284228
>>26284243
Your egotism isn't an indicator of your intelligence, nor is the distinctly inept method of leading questions to achieve an answer you thought should be given after asking a question in an unclear and inept manner. Pretending to be stupid ("so it's like a meritocracy") isn't really funny when you're claiming to be an RPG player who is supposedly skilled and smart enough to deal with your group's apparent stupidity. If you meant the question seriously, then you're actually in need of some serious education before you try and use words you don't actually know the definition of in reference to things which they do not apply to.

You can see why people think you're an idiot, I imagine, and if you can't, then you're actually as obtuse as you are pretending to be.

>> No.26284379

>>26284344
how about u go back to ur mom, who i fucked

>> No.26284384

>>26284376

Implying we're even talking about RPG anymore.

>> No.26284399

>>26284379

That's an ogre, not a troll.

Good god are you actually this stupid?

>> No.26284422

>>26284359
Please rephrase. Like seriously, i think i know what youre trying to say, but it looks like complete gibberish.

>>26284379

>> No.26284432

>>26284384
I wasn't. I was pointing out your stupidity in a binary fashion that leads to the unquestionable revelation that you are either an idiot, or you are more stupid than you think you are.

>> No.26284444

>>26284422

> Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Arthur C. Clarke.

>> No.26284458

>>26284432

I never assumed I was intelligent.

>> No.26284486

>>26284444
Ok, thats what I thought you were referencing, point being what? That quote doesn't support any of your arguments at all, so I'm not sure why you are bringing that quote up.

>>26284458
Well, he finally confessed to being dumb. Our work here is over.

>> No.26284489

>>26284444
>thes cocks r delishus

Ur Mom

>> No.26284511

>>26284486

The argument was to do with objective truth.

As far as i'm aware the only objective truth I know of is that everything is relative.

>>26284489

Dat playground insult.

>> No.26284530

>>26284511
Well, then you have about ten years of studying philosophy and science ahead of you. For that statement is not true. and the comments section of 4chan is not the place to teach you.

>> No.26284536

>>26284511
u just mad we fuked so hard.

all 3 holes, not in the order youd expect

>> No.26284553

>>26284530

> that statement is not true.

Except you just proved it was. Truth is relative.

>>26284536

You enjoying your summer holidays from school, son?

>> No.26284596

>>26284553
No, you are merely ignorant of the truth. Saying that theres isnt objective truth just because you cant recognize it, makes you a fucking idiot and on par with creationists and intelligent design dunderheads.

>> No.26284613

>>26284596

Is that what it comes down to?

Denigrating the opposition because you refuse to simply agree to disagree?

>> No.26284658

>>26284613
No, you are wrong. It comes down to educating you to show you that you, are in fact wrong.

>> No.26284683

>>26284658

Life isn't just about being right all the time, you know?

>> No.26284694

>>26284613
Well, I'm one of those people who has the axiom of truth before all else. I have spent a couple decades of my life researching and learning to recognize what truth is. And to have some upstart little shit try to tell me that all my learning and studying is for naught because he is ignorant of just how little he knows, pisses me off. Now I'm trying to shock you into possibly realizing that you aren't as smart or as clever as you think you are, and then wanting to go off and fix this issue.

>> No.26284709

>>26284694

You think subjective knowledge isn't worth learning?

Do you disregard everything you think is false too?

>> No.26284780

>>26284709
Ok, You are shit head, dumb ass trailer trash that needs to; for the betterment of the human race, commit suicide. Stop fighting you dumb fuck and get the fuck over the internet! It's a place for people much more intelligent then you fuck face!

Can you understand that? Or does your shit ass small brain need it spelled out more?

>> No.26284808

>>26284780

From what I know, intelligent people don't get mad when they think they're right, or are open to the possibility they might be wrong.

By the way, humans are a species, not a race.

>> No.26284810

>>26284536
>all 3 holes, not in the order youd expect

>> No.26284871

>>26284808
Yeah, you're an idiot. At scientific conference, you know places where the brightest and smartest gather to discuss their findings, there is all kinds of yelling and swearing and name calling. Confusing passion for anger is what the ignorant do.

>> No.26284887

>>26284871

I think you'll find such individuals end up getting ejected from the conference if they act like that.

e.g; http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/120712-636310-united-nations-throws-out-skeptic-monckton.htm

>> No.26284906

>>26284887
Linking to an article about UN meeting where a non scientist gets ejected for rude behavior and thinking that its representative of a scientific conference shows you know nothing about scientific discussion amongst scientists. Please kindly fuck off and never darken /tg/s threads again.

>> No.26284915

>>26284887
Just admitted you are wrong, stop fighting an endless war of falsies.

>> No.26284928

>>26284906
>>26284915

No you fuck off, stop acting like children just because your favorite echo chamber isn't doing what you want.

>> No.26284946

>>26284906
This anon.
>>26284928
Read what you post! Or don't being that you can't understand it.
Just stop yDmP7j3NIWI you are wrong everyone knows this and agrees against you.

>> No.26284961

>>26284946

As if I give a flying fuck about peer pressure, you stupid retard.

>> No.26284967

>>26282435
The answer to your question is no.
Any 'cancer killing RPGs' is human in nature. Much like the cancer killing 4chan.
The poor mechanics 'killing RPGs' you are aware of are not, in fact, representative of the entirety of RPGs, even if it seems that way. 3.5 and 4e are not the only ones out there.
But I'm digressing. The two(that I am significantly aware of) problems with 4e that many people have is the perceived lack of enforcement or interest in role-playing. Which is due to the second problem; the over-hauling of the combat system(coupled with the loss of options). There is not, in fact, too much balance here. But the way they DID balance everything was apparently not satisfactory.
Instead, I propose for you an alternative question:
What could have been changed between 3.5 and 4e to capture and exemplify a feeling of myth and power, even in the hands of people who don't light bat guano on fire and fling it at people?
For that, I propose having made 'mortal' archetypes like the Fighter and Rogue take on supernatural aspects as they leveled. The fighter becomes more godly, can jump castle walls with ease, cleave the moon in half. The rogue would be able to steal metaphysical aspects, along with panties out from below plate mail. With both adapting some form or way with which to help them deal with magic. The rogue could steal the words out of a caster's mouth, or sneak out of the shadow of a spell as it is cast. And the fighter could quite literally 'Nope' an incoming spell out of existence, or pull a Samurai Jack.
(Gotta get back, back to the past.)
(Samurai Jack.)
>>26284961
At this juncture, I would like to say you have become far too inebriated, whether due to a lack of sleep or actual soporifics. The wise course of action would be to declare your undying hatred to all faggots, then leave.

>> No.26284995

>>26284967

But that would suggest the fan base is made up of a bunch of petulant children.

Surely that can't be true.

>> No.26285014

>>26284961
>>intelligent people don't get mad when they think they're right
>>As if I give a flying fuck about peer pressure, you stupid retard.

You just contradicted yourself. Also the scientific community is all about peer pressure, you should know with that link you gave.

yDmP7j3NIWI, will still fight knowing they're right. They might stop are fume of how "stupid /tg/ is". Which is their right, how ever wrong.

>> No.26285021

>>26284995
Just stop you dumb shit.

>> No.26285065

>>26285014

The link I gave that was immediately discounted as invalid?

Yeah, no, you're talking out of your arse mate.

>> No.26285098

>>26285065
Disregard I eat shit/

>> No.26285115

>>26285098

Ultimate summerfaggot ITT.

>> No.26285158

>>26285115
You mean you?

>> No.26285479

>>26282460

...except that, disregarding your obvious bias, 4th edition balkanised the fanbase.

Killing them would have been kinder.

>> No.26285555

>>26284995
Being one of the petulant children, you would know, wouldn't you.

>> No.26285699

I'm sorry for being stupid /tg/ forgive me.

>> No.26285762

>>26283332
>dissing Azzarello's Wonder Woman
>thinking he is a one trick pony
Dude.

>> No.26286587

>>26283236
I have all my essentials books right here.

There's no Vampire class.

>> No.26286704

>>26284228
>implying implications

>> No.26286936

>>26286587
>4rries don't even know what's in 4e
protip: check Heroes of Shadow again.

>> No.26287095

>>26286936
>>4rries knowing something.

Check what you are asking Anon.

>> No.26288106

>>26284194
They actually brought Apache Chief into Young Justice. His powers manifest slightly differently though.

>>
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