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[ERROR] No.26097121 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

old thread >>26081767
Forums: opaque.freeforums.net
Site: opaquegames.com

Pic is the thing Song lets you do which most RPGs don't, turning your sword round and beating heads.

>> No.26097174

I haven't been in the threads since before the beta, what did I miss

>> No.26097180

>>26097121
Also using a sword as though it's a spear.
Sword confirmed for King of Fighters.

>> No.26097208

>>26097174

The beta is rough, but the new update made it better. Currently we're arguing about inconsequential stuff, waiting for the next release at the end of the month.

>> No.26097230

>>26097174
Beta's out, it's okay, not great. Devs are working on a superior beta update that will be released soon, possibly before the end of the month.

We left off discussing everything from ways to better set up campaign power levels and tying in base wealth to them, to stats for various weapons we hope to see, to replicating Jin's ultimate technique from Samurai Champloo in SoS, to whether or not the game's dicepools should be d10 or d20.

>> No.26097280

Rolled 14, 14, 6, 12, 13, 14, 12, 5, 8, 6, 9, 4, 1, 10, 1, 7, 12, 9, 1, 12 = 170

>>26097230

>whether or not the game's dicepools should be d10 or d20.

I think we should all just split the difference and make them d15s.

>> No.26097293

Eh, new thread eh?

As I was saying in the old thread.

>>26097213


People where talking about D20's being good because it allows success to move at values of 5%. That's not the only way to adjust things.

> Just increase the # of successes/die needed and inflate Die Pools.

>Example:
>Increasing damage on a wound. Right now it's 1 extra success = +1.
>Change it to 2 extra succeses = +1.

>Also, I've totally thought this was a good idea and was going to suggest considering it as a way to redo the formula for toughness/raising damage.
Note: I realized that this doesn't actually adjust things the same way a D20 would. Though it does cut the value of a single success in half. So...removed references to 5% and hoping it makes sense.

>> No.26097397

>>26097293

I'm still in favor of it being possible to not have bonus successes.

>> No.26097435

>>26097293
It kind of does, but it either breaks Draw Cut or makes it completely useless most of the time depending on whether it still activates on 3+ bonus successes or if you make it only activate on 3+ damaging successes (6 successes) respectively.

>> No.26097450

>>26097397
That's a tie, and if it's like Riddle then it's a hit which does no damage.
Although a really high damage weapon hitting an unarmoured opponent should probably do some damage even without bonus successes.

>> No.26097451

>>26097397
The only way to do that would be to change it so that attacker wins ties. Which might be interesting.

>> No.26097688

>>26097450

You know how one success over the defense is a damaging hit? I think any further success beyond that one should be a bonus success, and that one just be a success that does the default damage plus strength.

>> No.26097756

>>26097688
I don't like that so much; it makes counting successes kind of awkward. That one simple subtraction slips the mind way too easily, especially if you're like me and are used to variants of the Storyteller System.

>> No.26097784

>>26097688
Are there glancing blows or whatever you want to call them?

I'm a bit prone in free sparring to getting sorta-hit in ways that make me think "i'd be bleeding" but not "i'd be disabled", which makes me think such things might be worth considering, and since i saw a bleed mechanic of some sort in another thread it might even fit well.

>> No.26097823

>>26097756

Since I didn't know that that was a bonus success, I ran my games like that. Everyone picked it up quickly enough.

Maybe they should be called something other than bonus successes, since bonus implies something above and beyond the basic.

>> No.26097847

>>26097823
Cumulative successes?

>> No.26097871

>>26097784

That's covered by level one or two wounds. Only when you get up there in wound level do you take really nasty damage.

My proposed system makes those glancing hits a tiny bit more likely.

>> No.26097897

>>26097847

Maybe something like superiority or advantage?

>> No.26097958

>>26097784

A wound gives you bleeding and pain. When you get a certain amount of bloodloss, you need to start making health tests. Pain subtracts from your combat pool. It?s usually manageable at lower levels, so glancing wounds are a thing.

>> No.26097988

>>26097897
Maybe.

>> No.26098134

>>26097435
Does it? Doing an OS reinstall so pdf isn't handy to check Draw Cut's rules. (and adobe reader isn't installed yet)

Wouldn't you be able to just have it activate on 3+ bonus successes and not give a shit?

>>26097688
This is totally what I'm used to. Though...

>>26097756
I forget myself sometimes. Another way to phrase it is that it costs 1 success to "activate" the damage and then 2 successes to stage up damage. Effectively the same thing but easier to remember then a -1.

>>26097823
Extra successes?

>> No.26098221

>>26098134
If it does, then it becomes a much more reliable way to get large amounts of extra damage than simple success. (4 bonus successes on a Draw Cut 2 weapon becomes 5 extra damage instead of 2).

>> No.26098516

Net successes
Cumulative successes
Bonus successes
Extra successes
Threshold successes
Attack successes / Defense successes

Of all these I think only "Extra" and the last entry are equal to Bonus successes in conveying the meaning of the mechanic. However, Bonus and to a lesser extent Extra do imply that you had a success, and then you had MORE success. In Riddle & Song, you either fail or you succeed by one or more, and all of your successes in the "one or more" category count as Bonus successes. We could instead call them Extra successes, and the word Extra conveys the balance between "more than the defense got" and "over and above what was necessary."
The problem with that is that "Extra successes" sounds really dull and boring to me. There's no jazz to it, nothing that makes it feel special or particularly fechten-related.

Attack successes and Defense successes can also work, but then you have two terms for the same thing and you have to worry about the context you're writing it in. It too is a rather boring term but I find it slightly less dull than "Extra".

>> No.26098564

Sorry to ask, but this is the first time I've decided to check one of these threads out. What is Song of Swords all about? I'm guessing it's a sort of hardcore medieval combat simulator?

>> No.26098590

>>26098564
Pretty much. Are you familiar with The Riddle of Steel? SoS is basically a refinement of it with better all-around mechanics, fluff, and equipment options.

>> No.26098597

>>26098564

It's basically a Riddle of Steel remake, the goals of which are to update and refine the combat system, which was already a hardcore medieval combat simulator, and also to make a setting that doesn't suck like RoS's original setting. Which sucked ass.

>> No.26098625

>>26098590
It plans to have better mechanics, fluff, magic, and equipment. It isn't there yet. But that's basically hitting the nail on the head in terms of describing it.

Eventually we'll need to learn how to pitch it without referencing Riddle of Steel.

>> No.26098685

>>26098625
>filename
HAH!

>> No.26098699

>>26098590
>>26098597
Gotcha. Yeah, I remember Riddle of Steel threads from a while back. Seems like an interesting idea, so I think I'll check it out.

>> No.26098739

>>26098699
The man who kicked it all off is the same guy who ran most of those combats, to boot.

>> No.26098777

So, how well would a Dark Souls game using SoS work?

>> No.26098789

>>26098777
Once the rules for fighting giant monsters are finalized, probably pretty damn well.

>> No.26098804

>>26098777
More lethal than the game.

>> No.26098923

Hey guys, I've been tinkering with my supposed SoS setting, and I ran into a slight problem of presentation - what apps do you guys use to create maps? I mean, freehand-drawn world maps, city maps, town maps, dungeons, et cetera?

Something handy that doesn't require a tablet.

>> No.26098952

>>26098923
I use either Maptools or Paint.net.

>> No.26099041

>>26098777
>all that armor
Enjoy your 10 die CP even at Heroic High Power level.

>> No.26099068

>>26099041

>implying anything will hurt him

I guess except for the dozens of weapons meant to defeat armour

>> No.26099087

>>26098516
Are we really trying to find a name for the total number of successes in a roll? How about successes or total successes if you really want to be verbose?

>> No.26099105

>>26099041
I think we should get used to that being the standard rather than too low. The game needed a general shrinkage of pool sizes.

>> No.26099128

>>26099068
>implying a dirt peasant with a pike can't hurt him
>implying a skeleton or giant beast wouldn't be able to hurt him

>implying an archer of any kind wouldn't be able to hurt him

>> No.26099134

>>26099087
I favour Net Success to replace the Margin term from Riddle.
It's the successes remaining after some are nullified, after all.

>> No.26099146

>>26099128

Yes exactly

>> No.26099150

>>26099087
>How about successes or total successes if you really want to be verbose?
Successes would mean any die you rolled equal to or above your target number. Total successes would be all those successes you rolled. Neither conveys what happens when you lose some successes to the enemy's successes, and that's what we're talking about here.

>> No.26099166

>>26099105

Even with giant 17 dice pools combat wasn't exactly a breeze

Going all in against a roughly equal opponent was a bad idea no matter what

>> No.26099260

>>26099166
Well, maybe encumbrance will be a bit gentler in the next update, then.

>> No.26099303

>>26099260

As long as they don't dial it back to how easy on you Flower of Battle encumbrance rules were

I mean, sure, knights in armour doing cartwheels and all that, but sometimes verisimilitude has to take a backseat to balaunce.

>> No.26099340

>>26099303

How did FoB handle things?

>> No.26099378

>>26099303
Honestly, with dice pools as low on average as they are now? FoB's method would actually be really good.

>> No.26099436

>>26099340

Made armour penalties a bit more forgiving than the core game. With a greathelm and a suit of plate mail, your total CP penalty was, like, 3? And your Move penalty was 2.5. So while you couldn't exactly chase after a mugga with less armour, you could stand there and cleave him in twain if he tried to fight you. Which is all well and good.

>> No.26099453

>>26099303

Honestly, I think that remaining fairly true to life is better in this kind of game. An enemy in full armor should be something that you either have to work together against or use trickery to even the odds with.

>> No.26099461

>>26099128
A lone peasant with minimal combat training using a pike against a fully armored man with even halfway decent training.
You are totally right, pikes are just OP vs armor what are we thinking.

>> No.26099477

>>26099453
Or just bring up the right weapons.

>> No.26099479

>>26099453

And a party in full armour could wade into battle, cleave everything in twain, and then sit down for a bit, breathing heavily.

>> No.26099500

>>26099303
>I mean, sure, knights in armour doing cartwheels and all that, but sometimes verisimilitude has to take a backseat to balaunce.

Wouldn't that defeat part of the reason of making a game that more accurately simulates pre-modern combat?

>> No.26099505

>>26099477

You still have to Not Get Hit. Thankfully shield-and-weapon is a great combination.

>> No.26099522

>>26099479

Once you reach that point, the other guys are probably going to be in armor too, or using those tricks against the players.

>> No.26099539

>>26099500

I suppose! But then you get people bitching about KNIGHTS IN ARMOUR OP and all that. Which they historically were, unless faced with their most deadly enemy, the thing that killed them at Agincourt:

Mud.

Fucking mud.

>> No.26099622

>>26099539

They aren't really the target audience, though.

Though I agree. Mud is underpowered in almost every system.

>> No.26099630

>>26099522

Dudes in full armour would still be relatively rare unless it's a battlefield campaign though

>> No.26099660

>>26099539

I'd think that would be a good side-effect of a game that will at launch be focused on armored knights as one of the most powerful battlefield weapons.
If people want to play a game that ignores that there are other games for that. Not that there aren't ways to kill knights, or that gangs of peasants weren't a big enough thing to worry about that were passages in period manuals in how to defend yourself from several peasants at once when you aren't in armor.

>> No.26099678

>>26099630
Even partial armor is a bit too unwieldy with the current rules though.

>> No.26099728

Is there any way someone out there can or at least tell me how to make the character sheet less of an ink waste. I'm about to print 4 characters and I refuse to spend that much ink.

All I need is the Logo and Body hit location removed, maybe the Phi but that's less important.

>> No.26099834

Maybe instead of large penalties for wearing armor in combat, we should try and figure out a way to keep people from wearing all of their armor 24/7?

>> No.26099848

>>26099461
>A lone peasant with minimal combat training
>minimal combat training
You didn't get the joke I take it.

>> No.26099914

>>26099728
I just write all my character sheets for Riddle and Song in notepad. It's just a series of numbers and abbreviations.

>> No.26099944

Took me two times hitting the update button to see it was on page ten. Derpidy doo.

What's going on over here lads? Clearly I missed some important discussion last time.

>> No.26099972

>>26099944
Pleaaassseee just fucking fix the character sheet so I can print them, I have a group waiting.

>>26099914
These are people new to both systems and character sheets are far easier.

>> No.26100019

>>26099944

There's been a minor schism involving the idea of changing the d10 pool to a d20 pool. It was more heated earlier, and I think the majority still support the d10 pool.

Because a fucking d20 pool? Seriously?

>> No.26100026

>>26099972
I told the man to handle it, let me go see where he is in the process.

>> No.26100054

>>26099134
>>26099150
In that case i think Net Successes would be the most appropriate. I guess something like Final Successes could also work but it sounds odd.

>> No.26100090

>>26099660
What sucks about it right now is that if I represent certain fictional warriors with the current rules, those warriors end up with a pitifully low dice pool...and that's WITH an Endurance score of 8. That's nearly a maxed out Attribute. HOWEVER, we have to wait until the Encumbrance update because that might be changing.

I'm wondering if there should be optional rules for the various power levels. There are accounts of knights in heavy armor dying from heat exhaustion while fighting in the snow, because their armor was too stuffy. Maybe someone of Legendary power could get a Boon or something that mitigates that.

>>26099944
>important discussion
Not really. The armor discussion now has more substance to it.

>> No.26100113

>>26100019
>minor schism
Minor is too strong a word. There's like two people who support it and everyone else realizes how stupid it is.

>> No.26100154

>>26100113

Imagine if the only person in Avignon is Supplementalist and some other guy who may or may not have changed his mind.

It is a depraved and heretical sect, with d20s and exploding dice.

>> No.26100165

>>26099834
>Maybe instead of large penalties for wearing armor in combat, we should try and figure out a way to keep people from wearing all of their armor 24/7?

That's what the fatigue and body odour rules are for

>> No.26100176

>>26099972
He has been informed of the urgency of the situation. With the new proficiencies around, it's also important that we clarify that section of the sheet.

>>26100019
I have heard the idea, though in a different context. There was a time when we had planned on making a Mordheim-esque game, but we wanted to use D10s instead of D6s. We found that while the die's greater size allowed us to go into further depth with statistics (having access to smaller divisions of chance) the D6's smaller scope made the game easier to swallow for people, and we abandoned the project because... Well, Mordheim's already been made.

While I respect the line of reasoning (having shared it at one point,) we will not be making any large changes to the die pool system at this time.

>>26100090
Exhaustion, and Climate effects on armor, are both being worked on actively at this moment. So you are greatly in fortune.
In the next update, we'll also be releasing NPC creation guidelines. You don't have to make bad guys in the Chargen rules for PCs, sometimes they're allowed to be stronger, to represent having more experience. Darth Vader definitely wasn't made on the same scale as Biggs Darklighter.

>> No.26100177

>>26100019

Wait who wanted a d20 based dicepool and where do they live

>> No.26100191

>>26100165
>min-max a character specifically to achieve maximum Odor score in the shortest time possible
Praise be to Father Nurgle.

>> No.26100206

>>26100177
The name....friend...whose name starts with an S around here wanted it, and doesn't understand the practical considerations or anything else about it.

>> No.26100209

>>26100019
Didn't it come from trying to find ways to represent weapon quality? It makes sense to want more granularity if you want to represent a slightly poorly balanced longsword or whatever.

Honestly i think it does have mechanical benefits, but it does have a high chance of annoying people more than d10 pools.

And about (heavy?) armor being OP, it probably should be except in certain situations in the realistic setting. If the fantasy setting should have agile rogues dodging everything and such perhaps armor should have nastier penalties there.

>> No.26100221

>>26100176

Does your team have any code monkeys? A chargen program like the original RoS had would be nice to have.

Shit you could even just throw it together in MS Excel.

>> No.26100228

>>26100177
Me.
Far away.

"Want" may be too strong, more "wanted to consider"
It's what I do, consider things.
Apparently the logistical difficulties far outweigh the mechanical benefits.

>> No.26100261

>>26100221
RoS had a chargen program?

>> No.26100271

>>26100261

It did. Looked like it was meant for Windows 95, but it worked.

>> No.26100278

>>26100221
We have a coder, who is at the moment producing some tools and an infrastructure for us to build the proper website.

>>26100228
Clearly there is no box yet designed that can keep you thinking inside of it, Suppzilla. Do not worry, the thought did cross our minds.

>> No.26100280

>>26100221
I would guess no or they'd probably be using a subversion system and that whole fiasco where they lost a section of text wouldn't have happened.

>> No.26100298

>>26100280

That sounds hilarious

Explain, forthwith

>> No.26100326

>>26100298
Well you see, they said they'd release the beta one day. Then somebody lost a whole section and it had to be written again. So the beta was delayed.

Violence might or might not have happened afterwards.

>> No.26100329

>>26100280
> and that whole fiasco where they lost a section of text wouldn't have happened.
I am going to laugh so heartily if it turns out RoS's chargen program is worse than FATAL's.

>> No.26100333

>>26100278
I am now compelled to design such a box.

I think it's time I lay down.

>> No.26100380

>>26100333
But before I do, another thing to consider.
Scimitar cut-thrusts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWvsHorqldM

>> No.26100386

>>26100090
Hell, not just fictional warriors, any warriors that were known for wearing full sets of armor to battle get screwed badly under this system.

>> No.26100387

>>26100326
They tried, but you can't Home on Rome. I made it out relatively unscathed.

>> No.26100389

What are some typical Italian soldiers from the medieval time period? Besides the classic aggressive rapier duelist and Milanese crossbowman. I feel like removing pasta.

>> No.26100403

>>26100380
Oh, I say. It's the British spear guy.

>> No.26100412

>>26100387
Don't need to home, you just follow the road.

>> No.26100416

>>26100380
>lindybeige

The technique is sound (you see it in kenjutsu too), but man does he ever not miss the opportunity to make a sweeping generalization about something based off a single unverified anecdote.

>> No.26100419

>>26100389
>What are some typical Italian soldiers from the medieval time period?

Footsoldiers in munitions plate.

>> No.26100434

>>26100416

That's why I love him

>> No.26100444

>>26100389
The classical Missaglias-armored warhammer-toting condottiero, the stradiotti (though those guys were mostly Albanians)...

>> No.26100711

Soooo I haven't been participating in SoS threads, can anyway break down the differences between RoS combat and SoS combat aside from the addition of Yellow?

>> No.26100858

>>26100711
Winding and Binding has been replaced with Hilt Push.

There are now several types of dodge maneuvers. Where Riddle had Partial Evasion and Full Evasion, Song currently has Void, Dodge, Duck & Weave, and Evade. Evade is Full Evasion, where Partial Evasion has been split into the other three.

I don't know how Riddle handled shields getting damage, and striking specifically at shields, but Song counts for shield damage and there's the Hew maneuver specifically designed to damage shields. I haven't tried those mechanics out yet for myself, so I can't talk about how well they work.

Song of Swords's default fight seems to be a 3v3 match, but I don't think the rules to actually fight those out are in the book yet. You can do the one-on-one fights, but there aren't any rules yet for fighting more than one opponent. At least, I didn't see any.

Talents and Boons/Banes are sure to change up combat too, and although we have Talents, we don't have their tier lists to make them work with Proficiencies. Supposedly that'll be fixed next update as well.

Dice pools overall are smaller than Riddle, so far.

>> No.26100874

>>26100711
A few maneuvers have been added, deleted, or altered, parrying requires you to beat the opponent's successes to take Initiative whereas with a shield block you simply have to tie their successes, the whole thing with hilt defense ratings and weapon special qualities is more complete...Jimmy can probably get in deeper with this.

>> No.26100891

>>26100711
The layout of maneuvers is different. Winding and Binding is likely to become the go-to swordsman technique for two handed fighters. In general the maneuvers now encourage attack and defense, toss and stop short are gone.

>> No.26100930

>>26100891
Speaking of which, resolving the Bind is a lot less stupid than it was in RoS.

>> No.26100939

>>26100858
>>26100891
To be more specific about the Winding and Binding thing, when you or your opponent parries an attack you can enter this sub-combat called a Hilt Push, that has its own maneuvers that can only be used inside of it.

>> No.26101025

>>26100711
We're still suffering some growing pains at this point in development, but our aim is to make Song of Swords "the same but more" in the combat department. We liked the core mechanics of RoS, our primary complaints were maneuver balance and its disorganization in larger combats.

We're about 2/3rds of the way to resolving the large combat problem, and closer I think to handling maneuvers. I'm prepared to say that our current maneuver list (By which I mean the maneuver list in the Update, not the Beta,) is more coherent than RoS's was, though that may be because I had to learn RoS from a bad scan.

We also wanted to do more weapons with a better system for weapon attributes and special qualities, as well as a better system for armor. I'll admit that our armor system is lackluster at the moment, and needs expansion. We're working on that too.

>> No.26101053

>>26100939
Binding and Winding sounds really bad. Winding and Binding sounds much better. Please don't put the Binding before Winding.

>> No.26101087

>>26100930
Unquestionably. Lever Down is also a death sentence, particularly when coupled with slide cut. I guess the balancing factor there is that even a slide cut won't do diddly to armor, and slide thrust is less overwhelming.

>> No.26101123

>>26101053
Eh, I wanted to use the German for it. It ended up English. Thank my editors.

>> No.26101166

>>26101123
Your editors suck, get new ones.

>> No.26101200

>>26101166
We're trying to find ones who know the material and we can stand to work with. We might've hit gold just this week. The results will tell, I guess.

>> No.26101204

I know what setting I'm going to play my gritty games in. Does anyone else have favored settings?

>> No.26101271

>>26101204
>Khergits
Fucking animals.

>> No.26101292

>>26101204

>> No.26101384

>>26101204
I'm going to be going mostly historicals in various parts of Europe and Asia.

>> No.26101398

>>26101204
Althistory ftw.

>> No.26101442

>>26101398
>"Why does Riddle have weeaboo weapons when the historical setting is 15th century Yurop?"

>> No.26101446

>>26101398
Got the one for Mexican Africa?

>> No.26101453

>>26101204
I've never been one for prebuilt settings, though I do steal ideas I like. I'm gonna try to do a thing based around the Mongol invasion of Europe have the PCs be one Hungarian fortress that held out all the way to the end of the invasion, beating back repeated attacks, and siege weapons a hundred years more advanced than anything seen in the west.

>> No.26101477

>>26101442
How the fuck did this even happen?

>> No.26101486

>>26101204
I'm actually waiting up for a supplement on the 18th century or so. I wanna get Colonial on the asses of poor unsuspecting natives.

>> No.26101586

>>26101446
Based foolz.

>> No.26101625

>>26101586
God these games are the best thing.

I remember one LP that did Texas and was just the craziest fucking campaign ever.

>> No.26101683

In honor of glorious forebear, I'm going to try to craft a sort of "Dishonored if it happened in MegaSlavia" setting.

Their civilization runs on Salo instead of whale oil.

>> No.26101706

>>26101683
What people or areas are Slavic? Being Ameridumb I just assume it means anywhere east of Germany and Italy.

>> No.26101772

>>26101025
>though that may be because I had to learn RoS from a bad scan

We all did, really

>> No.26101857

>>26101706
It's... Close to correct. Estonians and Latvians aren't Slavs. Yet. The Slavs are the Polish, Serbs, Croats, Czechs, Slovenians, Bosnians, Macedonians, Bulgarians, Russians, Romanians, Ukranians, Moldavians, Transylvanians, debatably Albanians, and -really- debatably Hungarians. Georgians and Chechens are also sorta-kinda Slavs.

Albanians and Hungarians both trace their lineage rather directly to steppeland folk, the Magyars and some other guys, so they aren't really Slavs... But then you go look at them, and they're absolutely Slavs.

Truth be told they aren't so much a race as a language group. They're also everyone you imagine forming an angry mob with pitchforks to fight Dracula.

>> No.26101894

>>26101857
Don't forget the Lithuanians.

>> No.26101970

>>26101894
That's another debatable one. They're sort of distinct.

>> No.26102069

>>26101683
Dunwall would've been a lot cooler if it were a take on 19th century St. Petersburg.

>> No.26102091

>>26101683

W-why do they have a babby

>> No.26102117

>>26102091
You think he should leave his baby at home unattended? They're not monsters you disgusting baby-hating filth.

>> No.26102165

>>26102091
They're teaching it how to squat. It's rough on the ankles, but an essential skill for any good Slav.

>> No.26102225

>>26102091

It's there because you're witnessing Slavic reproduction; they squat in a circle and a baby climbs out of a pile of Salo.

>> No.26102244

>>26102225

>> No.26102285

>>26102165
It's only rough on the ankles if you've been using chairs or wearing bad shoes too much. You have to be able to rest your heels flat on the ground instead of balancing on your toes.

Not being able to squat properly is a big sign of being from Western Europe or America. Your achilles tendons actually shorten because of the poor posture of sitting, and you lose the ability to put your feet flat on the ground while squatting. This also makes it highly tiring.

Practice Squatting, teach your kids to squat, or they'll lose the power forever!

>> No.26102391

>>26102285
This is frightening. I have a lifelong terror of something happening to my Achilles Tendon, ever since I saw a guy get his cut. Fuck dat shit. I'll go practice right now.

>> No.26102422

>>26101857
So the areas in green are confirmed slavs, except for Lithuanians in Poland?

>> No.26102439

>>26102422

>> No.26102475

>>26102439
>>26102422
Yeah, that looks about right. Depending on how Swedish the people you ask are, Finnland may be too, but their descent is clearly distinct from the Slavic race, and their language is wildly dissimilar.

>> No.26102557

>>26102439
Jeeze, what year is this? Serbia and Montenegro split up in like 2001 or something.

>> No.26103208

>>26101442
I dunno, why?

>> No.26103425

>>26103208
Cuz is koo.

>> No.26103515

The only thing that would make this game more complete is stats for a pig carcass and a gel torso.

>> No.26103847

>>26103515
>pig carcass
HET 2
TOU 7
All other Attributes 1

Better yet just treat it as something with TOU 7, don't worry about character mechanics.
>gel torso
I don't know. TOU 4?

>> No.26103867

>>26103847

Aren't these used due to similarity to the human body?

>> No.26103956

>>26103515

Lynn Thompson pls

>> No.26104037

>>26103867
That's why the gel would be TOU 4. I don't know how tough pigs actually are but I always thought they were tough.

>> No.26105181

bump

>> No.26105278

Bump.

>> No.26105341

Continuing from here - >>26098923 - I have another question, or more of a poll really. I'm trying to decide what to make the first, sort of "protagonist" faction in the small setting I'm writing, to provide a sort of first point-of-view on the situation, so I'm asking which ones sound the most interesting to you. The location is a fairly large archipelago thematically located roughly in the western Atlantic, and the year is roughly in the beginning of the 17th century, and the more "chronologically displaced" the groups are, the earlier settlers they represent.

The groups I've come up this far are: Pre-Columbian North-East American tribals, Pictish tribes, Norwegian pagan clans, Christian Welsh, Irish and Cornish refugee settlements, Albigenesian heretic refugee settlements, descendants of explorer groups from North-African sultanates, early Portugese and Spanish explorers with a side helping of rabid jesuits, and a johnny-come-lately flotilla of English levellers and diggers strayed from their way to the new world.

>> No.26105377

>>26105341
That's pretty rad. Wish I had an answer for the map question.

>> No.26105440

>>26105341

I'd say the descendants of explorer groups from North-African sultanates. Muslim explorers with a strong tradition for adventure and describing the world around them chronicling the other factions and commenting on how barbarous or civilized they are would be pretty cool. Ever read about those Islamic traders writing about the Vikings? It's a pretty cool point of view.

>> No.26105501

>>26105341
>The location is a fairly large archipelago thematically located roughly in the western Atlantic, and the year is roughly in the beginning of the 17th century
Caribbean vikings?
>>26105440
>Ever read about those Islamic traders writing about the Vikings?
It's 17th century, dude, they are barbarians now or degenerates clutching at their once proud and advanced civilization.

>> No.26105556

>>26105501
I think these are all supposed to be time travelers or something. You could have a group of Romans who got lost in their way to Africa or something.

>> No.26105571

>>26105501
>they are barbarians now or degenerates clutching at their once proud and advanced civilization.

Don't speak so cruelly of the Norse. It isn't their fault they became protestants.

>> No.26105625

>>26105571
Ow.

>> No.26105629

>>26105501

>It's 17th century, dude, they are barbarians now or degenerates clutching at their once proud and advanced civilization.

I'm not sure if you're talking about the Norse or the Muslims. Either way I'm not sure you know what you're talking about, unless we're specifically talking about the Swedes.

>> No.26105663

>>26105629
The Swedes didn't hit rock bottom until the Great Nordic War, which was the 18th century. 1721, if I recall.

>> No.26105750

>>26105663

30 Years War and the Deluge say otherwise.


Though in their defense everyone was a huge asshole in the 30 Years War, so they weren't much worse than the average.

>> No.26105818

>>26105501
>>26105556
>>26105571
I am considering writing the setting primarily around the mystery of what and where exactly the islands are. The grand majority of the people living there don't even know about the Americas yet, so they're content in the life they've discovered, while the ones headed for the Americas either think they are there but off-course, or then actively seek answers to the question.

As for what the location really is, I can say that the islands wouldn't be found by 99% of people sailing across the sea. Think of it as a little pocket world behind bermuda triangle where Atlantis buggered off on that fateful day it sank, if you will, a sort of a slightly Ravenlofty place but without the arbitrary borders and the overbearing theme of evil.

All in all, to explain the situation in the simplest way possible, I wanted to create a setting that thematically resembled Calradia of Mount and Blade, but which maintained real-world history connections and factions, without any of the baggage of feeling disconnected and futile due to going against the written history we all know. Of course, there will also be fairly ever-present theme of faith and magic as well, tied to the mystery of the islands.

You can probably tell I'm juggling a very nebulous concept right now, seeing how convoluted even explaining it is.

>> No.26105834

>>26105629
Nope, the Muslims.

>> No.26105892

Monthly reminder that vikings had crucible steel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G65JJpLAGdY

>> No.26105929

>>26105750
Not much worse, but not being much worse than the HRE is damningly faint praise.

But I thought we meant rock bottom as in humiliating lack of national prestige.

>> No.26105930

>>26105892
They had to buy it from easterners, though.

>> No.26105976

>>26105818
I like it. It's fun.

>> No.26105992

>>26105930
Unless there's more recent studies, this video says they somehow figured out how to do it on their own.

>> No.26106003

>>26105992
Or, rather, they saw the easterners doing it and copied them.

>> No.26106048

>>26105992
>>26106003
Oh. I must not have been listening very well when I watched that. I thought they used imported steel from the mid-east.

>> No.26106055

>>26105818
>Lovecraft
>Bermuda Triangle
>Atlantis
>vikings
>dickstabbing
Perfect combo.

>> No.26106264

Can we move from pointbuy system to Lifepaths for character creation? It seems like Social class/Wealth/Attributes can't be balanced at all.

>> No.26106325

>>26106264
Lifepaths? Like Burning Wheel?

>> No.26106336

>>26106264
I think it's way too early to start crying about the sky falling on that front. Wait for the next update and see what we have from there.

Also I don't like lifepath systems as a rule, though I understand why others like them. I just find them too random and prefer to have full leeway to come up with my characters' backstory and statistics

>> No.26106339

>>26106055
And mercenary warbands. You gotta remember the mercenary warbands.

Still, if you guys don't mind if I gab about my super special snowflake setting, I thought of applying civilization in layers. The grand majority of the islands is wildlands, but there is an "old" base level civilization - the American natives, the Pictish natives, and the Norse natives. They have intermingled in more ways than one, and have a fluid, semi-hostile semi-friendly coexistence on the islands. Think of King of Dragon Pass. They don't mind eachother, until it's time to grab the other guy's cow and run for it.

On top of this, newcomers are layered, and almost always as dominating presences over the old. The newcomers have technological superiority almost inevitably, and most often they bring cultural features that contain elements demanding assimilation and integration of the natives over their own culture. They are also largely rootless, confused, and out of options. So tiny "kingdoms" over the native basic population begin forming over the centuries, with the old population largely as the serving underclass, and the newcomers as the ruling class. Think Norman england, though - the influence goes both ways, and define the resulting factions. But that's all secondary - the important bit is that we all know what happens when a number of fairly incompatible, energetic populations live too close for comfort to eachother.

One thing I'm trying to figure out, though, is how to reason the new land's warfare generally being less total in form, allowing for maximum amounts of adventurous flexibility and dynamic relations. Most of all, I want to avoid situations where wars could escalate to that of total extermination, as the lightness of spirit necessary for high adventure would probably not survive it.

>> No.26106373

>>26100271
But could you make two sheets in it, hit a button, and have the chargen program simulate 5000 fictional battles between the two warriors to determine WHO. IS. DEADLIEST?

>> No.26106391

>>26106336
>I think it's way too early to start crying about the sky falling on that front.
We had this problem since RoS. 11 years, man.
>>26106325
Yes, like Burning Wheel, maybe less granular.

>> No.26106442

>>26106391
This isn't RoS. Keep the faith.

>> No.26106459

>>26106391
I don't actually know much about Burning Wheel, I just know it has lifepaths. How do you propose it would work? I'm interested.

>> No.26106615

>>26106373
They made a combat simulator too, but it didn't have computer control.

>> No.26106655

>>26106339
Lack of surplus wealth. Keep war on a tribal scale, with resources being too slight to support a standing army or extended campaigns into enemy territory. Most wars are over cattle, slaves, or gold, wars for land are rare because nobody has the extra population or cultural willpower to conduct large conquests.

When someone rolls along who does (a bunch of Romans, a bunch of Mongols, a bunch of Americans with M4s) they quickly conquer a bunch of stuff, but then rapidly settle into the lifestyles of the people they've conquered, because how else would they survive, and the process continues.

>> No.26106699

>>26106336
Lifepaths are cool to give you ideas, but they shouldn't be mandatory. We've moved past forced random PCs decades ago.

>> No.26106745

>>26106699
Exactly.

Rolling up bog random PCs in Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay was funny the first couple of times, but after that...

>> No.26106780

So, part of the fantasy setting is Medieval England colonized by Slavs.

Crazy question, what are their cities named like? Because England already has like four languages layered atop one another, I can't imagine taking all of that, and then slapping Russian on top of it. Sounds like something out of clockwork orange.

>> No.26106844

To guy who needs map tools. Go swipe Campaign Cartographer. The bay torent could be installed by a retarded muskrat, and it works fine.

>> No.26106893

Why would you ever want to do a murderstroke? It makes your weapon worse in every way.

>> No.26106912

>>26106745

That's why even WFRP, which is the king of "Fuck You You Get What You Rolled" outright says that experienced players can and likely should pick their own class.

Lifepaths should be included in a basic form for inspiration, but the point buy system should be the default.

>> No.26106924

How do you use a gladius?

>> No.26106940

>>26106924
You stab with it, preferably behind the cover of a rather large shield.

>> No.26106960

>>26106339
>Think of King of Dragon Pass
Don't remind me about unbeatable minotaurs, dwarves and splitting your clan, if you are doing too well.

I want its magic system, though, and want it hard.

>> No.26106989

>>26106893

Yeah, that blade's really gonna work well on that armored man. Don't wanna apply blunt force trauma or anything to stun him.

>> No.26107043

>>26106699
Ahem, optional rules and methods for character creation is always good. Don't you know, that you can pick your own Lifepath? No random or rolls, until you want to make it quick and fast.

>> No.26107047

>>26106780
The Slavs generally renamed cities they took, rather than doing the English thing and changing the spelling. As for what they actually name them, it depends on which Slavs are doing it.

If they're Polacks, the names will probably be the same.
If they're Russians, expect a lot of St. cities.
If they're Balkanites, the names will just be weird and nonsensical. So nothing will change.

>> No.26107079

>>26106989

And as we all know, there are no advantages to having projections out of your weapon when attempting to control or maneuver the enemy.

>> No.26107103

>>26107043
When I hear "Lifepath" I think of stuff like WFRP or the 3rd Edition Mechwarrior RPG where you chose specific events for each stage of your character's life but had to roll for a random event in each, and had to abide by the result the roll gave you unless you burnt points of Edge. Enough bad luck and your badass Mechwarrior gets mauled by an animal as a teenager and gets to start play as a paraplegic.

>> No.26107159

>>26106893
It's funny, how murderstroke generates Shock without inflicting Wound, but Mass Weapons don't.

>> No.26107165

>>26106960
KoDP had that wonderful feeling of what >>26106655 mentioned, I'll say. And even the events you mentioned always felt to me like they were there to enforce the concept that there are genuine, fateful forces in the world that shouldn't be tinkered with.

While it isn't a very encouraging feeling, I still found it unique and remarkable, since it made a point of the player's ability to affect certain things being very restricted - that no amount of patient gaming of the system, savescumming or minmaxing could beat the power of plot. Not many game makers would have the balls for that.

Frankly, I fully intend to include "unavoidable" or "immutable" forces of sorts in the setting too, but I certainly won't make them as concrete as that. It's more an issue on the thematical level, all in all, which I want to bring to the fore but without exactly rubbing them in the players' faces. Certainly won't mold them into monsters that roll 50 dice for a punch to the groin when encountered.

>> No.26107192

>>26107103
Sengoku has a really good example of a Lifepath system.

>> No.26107202

>>26106989
If you can't beat his armor with your stabbing, or with your half swording, making your ATN worse will not reliably give you enough successes to make up for his weaker AV to blunt damage. If your ATN were the same it'd be a different story, but the way it is, you're not giving yourself a boost at all.

>> No.26107227

>>26107202

I'm sorry for the condescending tone. I thought you were talking about actual murderstroking.

>> No.26107297

>>26107202
Then it needs to be done at a higher ATN or do more damage.

>> No.26107349

>>26107202
It is the equivalent of doing +2 damage, for terms of penetrating armor. That, coupled with bonus shock, can potentially make all the difference if your pool is too small for the TN +1 to reduce your successes by more than 1 on average.

>> No.26107371

>>26107202
The update mentions a "MS value," which I assume is a Murderstrike value, meaning that each sword is probably going to get a Murderstrike damage bonus unique to it, or perhaps they'll be given by hilt/guard type.

Either way, it'll probably be more than +0 damage for weapons made to do it, so that may contribute to the usefulness of the maneuver a bit.

>> No.26107473

>>26107165
Yeah, atmosphere is excellent. You really get used to local customs and start thinking like you clansmen. Your good neighbours are gonna kick your ass, because your trickster insulted their chief? Tell them to chill out, because tricksters are children and you shouldn't take them seriously. In many situations best or reliable solution was to think like Orlanthi.

>And even the events you mentioned always felt to me like they were there to enforce the concept that there are genuine, fateful forces in the world that shouldn't be tinkered with.
Don't make them too vague threats. It ruined my first playthrough, where I chose Trolls as my ancestral enemies. I kicked their grey asses, until ambassadors came and told me to stop, because Troll Mothers would destroy my clan. "Come at me, troll", I said, because I didn't know much about setting and the fact, that these Troll Mothers actually existed and had godlike powers. They curbstomped me, obviously.

>> No.26107490

>>26106924
Don't forget the slice, or the ankle and dickstab. Efficient and terrible killers.

>> No.26107769

Where are you guys getting the murderstroke deals extra Shock damage thing from? I don't see it under the murderstroke entries for either the beta rules or the errata. If you're referring to Shock caused by blunt wounds, well, you have to hit with your attack first!

>>26107371
Yes, when MS values are put in, we can do something. I hate working with all these half-finished mechanics.

>>26107349
>It is the equivalent of doing +2 damage, for terms of penetrating armor. That, coupled with bonus shock, can potentially make all the difference if your pool is too small for the TN +1 to reduce your successes by more than 1 on average.
This is mostly correct. Normally your best bet at beating armor is to Thrust, but not all swords are good at that, so let's look at the benefits of murderstroking over cutting and thrusting both.

We're effectively taking a +1 ATN penalty for:

HELMETS
- A +2 (cut) or +1 (thrust) damage boost against metal helmets (AV 8 cut, AV 7 pierce, AV 6 bludgeon)
- A +3 damage boost against coifs and aventails (AV 6 cut, AV 6 vs blade thrusts, AV 3 bludgeon)
- A +0 or +1 damage boost against padded coifs (AV 1 cut, AV 2 pierce, AV 1 bludgeon)
BODY ARMOR
- A +1 or -1 damage penalty or boost against plate armor pieces (AV 8 cut, AV 6 pierce, AV 7 bludgeon)
- A -2 or -1 penalty against textile armor (AV 1 cut, AV 2 vs blade thrusts, AV 3 bludgeon)
- No change against leather armor (AV 2 cut, AV 2 pierce, AV 2 bludgeon)
- No change against brigandine vests or scale hauberks (AV 5 cut, AV 5 pierce, AV 5 bludgeon)
- A +3 or +1 damage boost against mail armor (AV 6 cut, AV 4 pierce, AV 3 bludgeon)

>> No.26107892

>>26107769
Murderstroking is distinctly a bad thing against textile armor, leather armor, brigandine and scales. You suffer a penalty to your ATN, and in return you deal less damage against textile armor, and no benefit against the other pieces.

Murderstroking appears at first to be a good thing against most of the other pieces of armor. If your sword is incapable of thrusting or thrusting well, it can be a good thing against plate body armor If it can thrust as well as or better than it can cut, then it is a bad thing to do against that armor. It provides a huge benefit against coifs and aventails if that's the only armor they have protecting that part of their body. It is an overall damage bonus against metal helmets. But do those extra points of damage make up for a worse ATN? I don't have much statistics education but I do have SmallRoller, which can help us here.

Before we get to that, though, we should compare this with half-swording. You can only murderstroke with a weapon that has an MS value (so by RAW you can't perform the maneuver with any weapon right now) but you can Half-Sword with any sword at all.
Both maneuvers can only be unlocked with the 2H sword proficiency though, so...

Half-Swording provides the following changes to the weapon profile:
-1 Reach, -1 Thrust ATN, +1 Strike ATN, -1 Parry DTN, +2 thrust damage, and -1 strike damage.

Murderstrike provides:
+1 Thrust ATN, +1 Strike ATN, +2 Parry DTN, +MS thrust and strike damage, and damage is bludgeoning

>> No.26107963

>>26107892
Wow, is it Chinese Hospitalier on the left side?

>> No.26107996

>>26107892
I'm starting to worry about Maces and their lack of cool maneuvers with own mechanics.

>> No.26108034

>>26107996

A mace's strength lies in a specialized role rather than flexibility.

However, that said, is smashing in armor joints a thing? And can it be a thing in-game?

>> No.26108059

>>26107892
The +MS to damage is what's going to make or break Murderstroking compared to Half-Swording, unless the stats for the maneuvers change. Half-Swording gives +2 thrust damage, so it provides a net damage boost greater than Murderstrike to all armor types except coifs and aventails. It also DECREASES the Thrust ATN, making it EASIER to hit. It also improves Parry DTN by one, where Murderstrike penalizes Parry DTN by two. The penalty for this benefit to Half-Swording is one shorter range, worse striking damage, and a worse striking ATN. But you don't go into Half-Swording to strike, you go in it to thrust and to defeat armor.

If we were using Riddle of Steel's range system, the range reduction that Half-Swording inflicts would be more substantial. If you weren't already at the new, shorter range, you'd have to pay dice to try and land a hit so you can move into that range. But for the range mechanics right now in Song of Swords, it just makes taking the initiative from you a teensy bit easier -- either they get one more die to their roll or you get one fewer die to yours.

>> No.26108093

So I have been planning this campaing to run with this: There's a small part of a kingdom, which was conquered by the bigger part of the kingdom some time ago and there's a small rebel movement. The players, staying at a small inn become accused for the assassination of the current local ruler. In reality the rulers brother killed him, decided that the blame will be put on some random dudes who are passing by, and he will use the assassination to start a full war against the rebel movement. The players are given small aid by the rebels and told to pass a mountain checkpoint which is pretty much ookami no kuchi wolfmund ( a really hard checkpoint to sneak trough). On the other half is the rest of the kingdom which lost it's part to the bigger nation.

>> No.26108094

>>26108059
Well, you don't usually take Mordhau to Thrust either. But yeah, we need the completed range mechanics from the update and a closer look at the stats on the mordhau.

>> No.26108109

>>26108059

There are three 2H Sword weapons with Armor Piercing. The Goedenak is the odd duck here; I don't you ever want to stab with it or use it in murderstroke. Looking at the others, the Bastard Sword and Estoc already get Armor Piercing, making them even better at beating the hard armor that Murderstrike is apparently only good against -- AND they already have Thrust ATNs of 6, meaning with Half-Swording they will have Thrust ATNs of 5.

The 2H Swords without Armor Piercing all have Thrust ATN 7 and -- except for the Zweihander -- Strike ATN 6. This means when you enter Half-Swording you have a Thrust ATN of 6, which is equally as good as your Strike ATN was normally -- except for the Zweihander where your new number is a +1 bonus. Additionally, with the +2 thrusting damage that Half-Swording provides, you are also dealing damage NO WORSE than your standard cutting damage. That is, you deal either equal or better damage. Even the Grosse-Messer, with Draw Cut 2, performs just as well in terms of damage numbers, since apparently Draw Cut applies to stabs as well.

I believe that's a typo mistake and the team ought to say Draw Cut only works with Strikes.

Finally, both Murderstrike and Half-Swording have a 2-die activation cost under the 2H Sword proficiency. For both, it costs 1 CP to return to normal swording. Under the Murderstrike entry (but not under the Half-Swording entry) it says you can swap between Murderstrike and Half-Swording "as normal," which I guess means paying 2 dice to go from one to the other, and only 1 die to go back to normal swording from either.


TL;DR Murderstrike is currently a worse thing to do than Half-Swording in every situation, and will remain so until we get the MS numbers for different swords or the mechanics change.

>> No.26108158

>>26108093
That comic is the single most rage inducing festival of bad feels I've ever read.

>> No.26108184

>>26108158
Yeah, I thought the players should be given a bit better chance with it. As long as they don't act like complete idiots.

>> No.26108191

>>26108109
Good thing we're going to be getting them soon, then.

>> No.26108207

>>26108093
So you have a party of fecht dudes in a tavern, and some people come in and acuse them of assassination. Presumably the price for that is torture and death. Are you expecting the players to go quietly? What if they resist at some point along the way? How will your story change?

And what if the players want to fight against the rebels rather than for them, even after all that accusation and aid stuff?

>> No.26108280

Huh. Half-Swording will give you a Parry DTN of 5 with most of the 2H swords.

>> No.26108298

>>26108207
The tavern is run by a rebel dude, either they run to some rebel tunnels as he tells them to, or they fight their way out of the town, as long as they think being on the rebel side is good for them I'll get them by some reason to go at my check point from hell. If they decide to fight the rebels, well, that pretty much depends on how they go around doing it.

>> No.26108347

>>26108298
You should consider having one of your more cunning PCs actually be responsible for the murder in the service of some foreign power, and be using this band of mooks as cover both to the authorities and the Rebels.

>> No.26108421

>>26108280
OP as hell.

>> No.26108441

>>26108093
>ookami no kuchi wolfmund
The part with the old guy and his wife actually made me cry. Fucking horseshit man.

>> No.26108527

>>26108421
HALF-SWORDED ESTOC
HANDS: 2H
REACH: M
TYPE: SWORD
STRIKE: 9(-1b)
THRUST: 5(+4p), 5(+6p) vs Hard Armor
GUARD: 3
DEFENSE: 5
SPECIAL: Armor Piercing 2 (thrust)
COST: 4

ATN 5 DTN 5, fucks up everyone's day. For this you pay Cost 4, and have a Reach of Medium. Don't get the initiative stolen from you!

>> No.26108530

I was worried about the future of this game, but the update has done much to assuage my fears. A few errors aside, it's ten times easier to understand. If the Beta had been done to this standard, I'd have been comfortable kickstarting it then. Let's hope they can get the next Mk of the beta out with even higher quality control.

>> No.26108537

>>26108527
Correction.
STRIKE: 9(-2b)

>> No.26108547

>>26101477
Scotland went on an excursion and took over some steppe horde territory which it subsequently lost to Russia and/or the terrifying and resurgent Nizhny Novgorod, I guess.

>> No.26108687

>>26108441
That fucking comic. I swore I would never read it before someone tells me the fucking bastard piece of shit of that bloody checkpoint is dead. And then I'll read just that part, over and over again. Frame the dead bastards picture on my wall.

>> No.26108736

I quite like it. Ookami no kuchi I mean.

>> No.26108773

>>26108736

You can like it, but I don't think you can enjoy it unless you're Austrian.

>> No.26108785

>>26108034
Unfortunately, flexibility is more useful for lone warriors. I can't see, why would anybody use mace over messer. Maces should deliver Shock even, if they failed to inflict Wound.

>> No.26108791

>>26108687
Even that probably won't be satisfying. Look at how detestable they made the protagonists of the series in the most recent episode.

>> No.26108801

>> No.26108823

>>26108773
But,but, I'm Finnish!

>> No.26108833

>>26108785
That's fairly realistic. Plenty of mercenaries were famous for their distinct swords, though almost all of them carried pikes or halberds as their primary weapons. How many of them are famous for distinct maces?

>> No.26108850

>>26108823

That's almost Swedish, and the Swedish are just protestant Austrians.

All ethnicities and races lead back to the Swedish or the Austrians. All of them.

>> No.26108856

>>26108850

>Swedish are just protestant Austrians.

Rephrasing that. They are the Austrians of protestants.

>> No.26108875

>> No.26108897

>>26108875
Yep, I'm out. Thanks for the thread, I'll be over in the gym, kicking the punching bags while crying and sniveling bitter tears. Not gonna stay and look at this again.

>> No.26108911

>>26108875
Anon pls no

>> No.26108915

>>26108833
Hercules?

Some guys from Indian mythology, they even had special type of huge maces to develop strength and scare the shit out of their enemies. These maces were heavy enough to kill an elephant.

John Zizka fought with mass weapons.

If you won't to be realistic, just write "YOU SUCK" on everything other than swords, pikes and poleaxes.

>> No.26108994

We really need those encumbrance fixes.

>> No.26108995

>>26108850
>All ethnicities and races lead back to the Swedish or the Austrians. All of them

>Swedish or Austrians.
>Not the Basques , the Slavs or the Scythians.

>> No.26109002

>>26108915
Meh, maces and other mass weapons are, or should be at least, generally better close-range canopeners than swords. You should be able to bash a knight's skull to pieces through his fucking armor with one.

>> No.26109007

>>26108915
Plenty of actual soldiers used maces, as well as polish nobility. I think the point is that if you don't know what you're fighting, a sword's a better choice than most sidearms, because it's flexible. Probably a better choice against unarmored or semi-armored enemies than most, and they tend to be longer, since they're not end-heavy.

But if you DO know that you're facing a lot of guys in armor, bring in that flanged mace and put their asses in the ground.

>> No.26109023

>>26108994
>6 CP vs 6 CP

lol.

>> No.26109058

>>26108915
Also halberds.

>> No.26109063

>>26108994
Oh Jesus I see why you guys didn't want to see this comic again. Um...I...

>> No.26109081

>>26109063
No, it's because it's so fucking sad.

>> No.26109100

>>26109081
Yeah, I just got to the end of the first chapter, then noticed the naming pattern with the other chapters. That's what I meant.

>> No.26109101

>>26109002
As of right now, the light maces are generally better weapons than swords when dealing with any form of armor. They're a very viable weapon choice, it's just understandable why people who don't know what they're facing tend to bring swords at their sides instead of maces. You might end up fighting lightly armored people, who will react better to the high Pain that cutting wounds inflict on the damage tables than the AP bonuses of the mace.

>> No.26109104

>>26109100
You've got to wonder, do they use a mallet because the axeman keeps missing?

>> No.26109111

>>26109104
It's cleaner. A guillotine has the momentum to slice through a head rather easily, because it's held up and drops straight down. An axe isn't guaranteed to cut all the way through a neck in one stroke. It's easier and cleaner to do it with an axe and mallet than just an axe.

>> No.26109161

>>26109111
>An axe isn't guaranteed to cut all the way through a neck in one stroke.
Ahem, if you don't have huge heavy axe at hand, you can hit smaller axe like a chisel with a hammer to deliver same impact.

>> No.26109165

>>26108109
Wait a minute...Goedenaks are different from Goedendags? I want Goedendags...

>> No.26109201

>>26109161
That's exactly what they were doing in the manga.

Also, Murderstrokes have appeared for the second time so far. Agility whore vs two knights. I honestly don't know what's going to happen next.

>> No.26109229

>>26109165
I have no idea what a Goedenak is. Google translate says it's Dutch but who knows. Wikipedia and G search turns up nothing.

>> No.26109241

>>26109201
She can only dodge and try to hit them at the ankle from behind to knock down.

>> No.26109242

GOEDENAK

>> No.26109244

>>26109229
It's the Macejowski (sp) Bible falchion/cleaver/messer/etc...

>> No.26109250

>>26109111
Remember the days when civilized people did it through the shoulder into the heart?

Why all the beheading, I just never got beheading.

>> No.26109254

GOEDENDAG

>> No.26109256

>>26109229
It's a mispelling of Godenak, which is a neologism for a variety of messer or falchion.

>> No.26109261

>>26109229

>> No.26109264

>>26109242
Looks like a weapon from LoTR.
>>26109254
Looks stupid, can't believe it was so effective.

>> No.26109270

>>26109242
>>26109261
What's the point of those curves anyways?

>> No.26109283

>>26109229
>>26109244
>>26109256
>>26109242
>>26109261
Oh, it's the Military Cleaver from Mount & Blade. Gotcha!

>> No.26109301

>>26109270
Throat-slitting, perhaps.

>> No.26109302

>>26109270
The weapon was apparently a scaled-up version of a cheese knife that was popular at the time. The strange serrations on the top and reverse edge were probably for peeling fruit or something.

>> No.26109345

>>26109283
Ooh, that thing kicked ass.

>> No.26109380

>>26109283
You know, mon ami, I have not been able to bring myself to play Mount and Blade since I found... The Mod. To describe it as disturbing would be too kind. To describe it as unwholesome would be disingenuous. To describe it as surreal would be... Appropriate.

A brave man on this very board took the little pictures of its screens, to show them to us. In it were contained disturbing rape scenes around every corner. After witnessing this depravity, I found that I could not so much as bring my mouse close to the icon on my desktop without thinking, "what sort of individual desires this from a game?" and instead clicking over to Crusader Kings II.

>> No.26109400

>>26109283
>>26109380
How solid is mount&blade gameplay? Is there some sort of singleplayer campaing modes? Are all the warbands and napoleonic shits expansions or stand alone things? I have been thinking of getting into it but the few clips I have seen look a bit, boring.

>> No.26109420

>>26109400
Warband is a genuinely new game. Napoleanic is a mod for Warband, I believe.

The games are pretty cool, they just seem a bit boring at times. There's a blend of RPG and action elements that are very appealing depending on your taste in games.

Bannerlord seems to have died on the vine, God knows how after its predecessors' success.

>> No.26109429

>>26109400
Originally it was all single player.
You really just romp around and kill dudes, take towns and castles and burn shit.

Warband is the "newest" version of the game, so to speak and napoleonic warfare is a mod.

Maybe you'd want to wait. M&B bannerlord is coming out soon(ish)

>> No.26109436

>>26109380
Was it Berserk mod?

>> No.26109449

>>26109420
>Bannerlord
http://mountandblade.wikia.com/wiki/Mount%26Blade_II:_Bannerlord
we got NO idea when it's coming out

>> No.26109470

>>26109420
>>26109429
I guess I'll give warband a try then. I also remember hearing somewhere ages ago it has pretty good mods for making the game look pretty and stuff? Anything recommendable?

>> No.26109475

>>26109380
You're not playing an excellent game because someone made a mod and they stuck in a bunch of rape pictures?

>>26109400
>Is there some sort of singleplayer campaing modes?
That is all it is. There is multiplayer but it is pretty bad overall. The game's main focus has always been its single player campaign.

The gameplay is very solid.

There was Mount & Blade, no subtitle, and that was the first game.
Then there was Mount & Blade: Warband, which is like a stand-alone sequel/expansion pack. When people say M&B nowadays, they're referring to Warband. It is superior to the original.

Mount & Blade: With Fire & Sword is a stand-alone game set in the Deluge, a historical period, rather than Warband's setting Calradia, a mishmash of different European cultures. WF&S is not that great a game. When it first came out, it was awful, but they have since patched the game and made it far better. Still, it includes a lot of guns, and those are not very fun to fight against in single player.

Mount & Blade: Napoleonic Warfare is the game company's attempt to cash in on a popular Warband Multiplayer-only mod called Mount & Musket. It's designed for teams of 30 or so people on a VOIC client walking in a line and shooting volleys together, emulating actual tactics of the time.

I highly, highly recommend Mount & Blade: Warband. It is a great game, there are many fantastic mods for it, and it is very easy to spend hundreds of hours playing it. The default game is rather balanced, too, since they'd had a lot of time to balance the various factions against one another. Various equipment you can get as the player is also balanced quite well now. I've found several equipment combinations that make me think "why would I ever use anything else?" That's a good thing for balance. There are complaints about the AI, especially on the overworld map, and lords are often quite dickish.

The original Mount & Blade had some great mods too. I fondly remember the Star Wars mod.

>> No.26109481

>>26109470
Floris, I think. Though really just the native game alone is worth the price of admission.

>> No.26109485

>>26109400
Get it, you will not regret it i swear.
I have 1000 hours on it, i know people with 4000

>> No.26109487

>>26109475
I love you, I was just about to ask about the fire & sword stuff. Do I get hussars in the warband?

>> No.26109494

>>26109436
No, just a rape mod. If you played a female character, and were captured, or taken down by bandits or assassins, there was a little text section afterwards where you got raped.

Why? Who the hell knows. People are demented. However I encourage anyone else with more sense than me to go and play good mods of the game. Or With Fire and Sword, everyone likes that one.

>> No.26109509

>>26109475
>Mount & Blade: Napoleonic Warfare is the game company's attempt to cash in on a popular Warband Multiplayer-only mod called Mount & Musket. It's designed for teams of 30 or so people on a VOIC client walking in a line and shooting volleys together, emulating actual tactics of the time.
It's very popular with a very large community and 2 big mods, one set in the American civil war, the other set in the Franco Prussian war.

>> No.26109512

>>26109494
Until they get shot. Or try to siege something.

Now defending a siege? That's ridiculously easy exp unless you get hit by a stray bullet.

>> No.26109513

>>26109475
Theres a mod for WFAS which makes the muskets realistic.

>> No.26109521

>>26109494
Ahehehee I remember reading that and seeing the screenshots.
Really, it was ridiculous.

>> No.26109536

>>26109509
Really, the best part are the musicians.

>> No.26109538

Can't wait to get my dwarf on in this game.

>> No.26109571

>>26109487
No, there are no hussars in Warband. Warband includes:

Swadians and Vaegir, the two factions that have been with M&B the entire time, going back to the beta game in 2006.
Swadians have heavy knights and use crossbows, have spears, like tiny little heater shields. I guess they're some mix of German (Swabia, Swadia, etc) and French? I never figured it out.
I also never figured out the Vaegir. They like voulges and have the best archers. I heard once they're like Russians, but, I don't know.

Swadians and Vaegir both have a mix of infantry, archers, and cavalry, with their cavalry being heavy. Swadian Knights are, or were, the toughest guys in the game.

Then there's the Nords, who are vikings. The best, toughest infantry you'll find. They are all infantry, they have no horses. Their archers are notoriously crappy but their melee infantry carry throwing weapons, which more than make up for it. Especially good in sieges.

The Khergits are mongols. In the native game, every single one of them is on a horse except the base peasant class, but they don't have as many troop types as the other factions and they are awful at sieges.

The Rhodoks are made of spears and crossbows. Regular Rhodoks are pretty cheap soldiers, but when their melee troops reach the top-tier upgrade and become Rhodok Sergeants, they stop being peasant spearman and become Hercules. They go from zero to hero. They too have no cavalry at all, they're all foot soldiers.

Warband added in the Saranids, the not-Arabians/Ottomans/Mamlukes. They're weird. They have throwing weapons, solid archers, and their Mamlukes are rivals of the Swadian Knights. They're kind of all over the place.

Finally there are all kinds of mercenaries and bandits with their own equipment sets and skills.

>>26109513
"Realistic?" What is this mod?

>> No.26109587

>>26109538
And more cheesecake!

>> No.26109601

>>26109538
I like the mountain dwarf one.

>> No.26109606

>>26109587
>pleated miniskirts
I am okay with this.

>> No.26109622

>>26109571
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,272593.0.html

I like it, maybe its a bit over the top for gameplay, but its more fun than the sniper muskets which reload in 7 seconds.

>> No.26109641

>>26109571
Khergits can be great in sieges, you just need non-standard tactics*.

*Non-standard tactics constitute cheesing the everloving fuck out of the battle by having a bajillion archers stand under the wall and shoot everything to shit. Your role in that is to lure out the cockmongers that refuse to move from the courtyard to the wall.

>> No.26109656

Swadians = Medieval Western Europe, French, English and German
Rhodoks = Italian, Swiss and Spanish medieval infantry
Vaegirs = Medieval Russia, the Rus
Khergits = Just mongols
Nords = literally a rip on vikings
Sarranids = A merge of antiquity and medieval middle eastern warriors, arabian and persian, preislamic and post islamic

>> No.26109666

Battle sizer mod is the best, my PC can handle 1000 troops on the battle field at about 10 fps, this leads to some insane battles and sieges.

>> No.26109672

>>26109656
Probably the most preislamic thing about the Sarranids is that you can find pork for sale pretty commonly down there.

>> No.26109677

>>26109666
So sayeth Satan.

>> No.26109689

>>26109672
The fact that their name is a play on Sassanid which was the pre islamic persian empire is big enough

>> No.26109696

>>26109622
Speaking of that,
>>26109470
Play the Native game first. Native is the game's name for the un-modded game. It is fantastic.

I'm sure you can find a graphical enhancement mod that does nothing but enhance the graphics.

The Floris mod pack is a bunch of mods that change the game greatly. A lot of players like it but I don't recommend it. Seriously, the Native game is great on its own.

Prophesy of Pendor was a popular original M&B mod, and it was updated to be a Warband mod as well. I do not recommend it for a new player at all. It takes everyone's power level and cranks it up to 9, it has roaming armies of 500 supersoldiers with power cranked up to 10, and it completely changes the map and stuff.

>>26109666
The Battlesize mod is very nice too, but again, Native works well enough without it. I never did understand the Tactics system fully.

>>26109689
Where's the names Vaegir and Khergit come from?

>> No.26109704

>>26109696
Vaegir, I believe, means something like "raider" or "bandit" in one of the Slavic languages.

>> No.26109711

>>26109380
There's a rape mod for CK2 as well.

>> No.26109746

>>26109711
You lie.

>> No.26109747

>>26109704
Swabia -> Swadians
Rhodes -> Rhodoks
Varyag -> Vaegir
Nords -> Nords
Sassanids + Saracen ->Sarranids

>> No.26109753

>>26109746
The game of intrigue and incest has a rape mod? What a surprise...

>> No.26109754

>>26109747
??? -> Khergit

>> No.26109779

>>26109747
Oh lawdy, the Ruskies must be hopping mad.

>> No.26109786

>>26109754
Oh, forgot about them. But who cares? I guess, it was something like twisting "Genghis Khan".

>> No.26109841

>>26109696
Also, the Floris mod has a weird bug. Sometimes when you raid villages, you don't get a huge variety of goods like normal. You instead get butter. Loads and loads of butter, of varying qualities. About 30 units of butter.

It gets you just as much cash when you sell it all, but still.

>> No.26109860

>>26109696
Native is good but its boring after a while and mods greatly enhance the game, after playing mods you dont really want to go back to native.
1257 AD is the best medieval simulator mod

>> No.26109887

>>26109841
that must be some damn good butter

>> No.26109892

>>26109860
I dunno, I find myself missing Native every so often.

>> No.26109914

>>26109860
>after a while
Like 80 hours or longer.

There is one mod feature I can't live without, and that's keeping the battle going after your health hits 0. In Native, when you are defeated in the field, the current skirmish is auto resolved. Like most video games, the auto resolve feature is bonkers and retarded. You will lose fights you should have won if the in-game battle continued. So there are mods that allow just that, giving you a spectator camera when you are defeated on the field. And at any time you can hit Tab to "retreat," and go on like the Native game does.

>> No.26109915

Damn, hitting things fro horseback is hard

>> No.26109949

>>26109915
Damn shooting bow from horseback is hard

>> No.26109952

>>26109915
Horseback riding takes getting used to. I remember when I first was playing the beta in 2006 thinking horses were really unwieldy. The mechanics have only changed a little bit since then. Eventually you'll get the timing down where you ram your enemy with your horse to break their guard or knock them over, and follow up with a melee attack that they can't avoid. Also, the Riding skill helps noticeably in controlling your horse. Get that up to level 3 or higher and practice.

>> No.26109956

New thread needed shortly.

>> No.26109991

>>26109914
80 hours would be a while but i have 1000 hours+ on the series.

>> No.26110021

>>26109991
I probably do too, it's been 7 years after all. Only about 400 on Warband and 200 on WF&S according to Steam, so probably another 400+ prior to Warband.

>> No.26110048

So where can I check out these rules?

The link on the website leads to a 404

>> No.26110062

>>26109956
Getting on it.

>>26110048
Also getting on it.

>> No.26110119

NEW THREAD
>>26110109

>> No.26110662

>>26109747
>Nords -> Nords
you mean
Norse-Nords

>> No.26110751

>>26101292
Whats the brown blob inside of France?

>> No.26110845

Rome, what happened to statting them weapons?

>> No.26110998

>>26102439
>>26101857
>Austria
>not slavic in denial a la Lithuania
Hitler's last name comes from Czech or Slovak (hidlerĨik).

>>
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