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25579385 No.25579385 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

"I always wanted to write RPG campaigns with my spare time, but I'll get about three missions in and scrap the world for my next, better, powergamin' build."

http://news.yahoo.com/exclusive-snowden-teen-online-anime-cheeky-humor-195321987.html

>> No.25579447

Who is this and what is his relevance to /tg/ aside from apparently playing RPGs

>> No.25579459

>>25579447
That guy who left his girlfriend. You know.

>> No.25579466

>>25579447
He's a hero and freedom fighter against the dark overlords enslaving these fair lands.

>> No.25579476

The reminds me of a question: are there are tabletops, RPG or otherwise, about intelligence and espionage that aren't all James Bond action?

>> No.25579481

>everything in that article

I had no strong feelings one way or the other about this guy other than that he smacked of attention whoring but now I sincerely want him put to death.

>> No.25579487

I'm a little surprised the CIA haven't killed him yet

>> No.25579498

>>25579476
Inb4 GURPS

Polite sage for off topic

>> No.25579503 [DELETED] 

>>25579481
>>>/rules/3

>> No.25579534
File: 65 KB, 370x800, screenshot_27400_thumb_wide940.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
25579534

>>25579476

Guess a realistic espionage game wouldn't be very fun to play. I heard an interview a couple of years ago with some MI6 people. They were asked about what they were taught at "spy school". The answer: "Well, mostly how to lie and betray people who trust you." Most honest description of spy work I've ever heard.

>> No.25579559

>>25579487

Why? That would be the stupidest thing they could do.

>> No.25579573

>>25579487
The CIA has been pretty much neutered now. They probably don't do much except sit around and regret how much they have fucked up the world and cost the US a stupidly large amount of money and destroyed its reputation as a trustworthy nation.

>> No.25579575

>>25579385
>he made stupid jokes as a teenager
These people are really stretching when they try to smear him.

>> No.25579581

>>25579487
>implying the CIA has any real power now

>> No.25579590

>>25579487
I think the CIA has learned its lesson about actively producing martyrs.

>> No.25579591

>>25579487
How do we know they haven't?

>> No.25579594

More current biographical info:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/09/edward-snowden-nsa-whistleblower-surveillance

>> No.25579604

so, do you think he used to come here?

>> No.25579605

>>25579575

Nah, that's just the build-up. Start by showing he played RPGs. That's just one step from schizophrenia ...

>> No.25579615

>>25579605
>That's just one step from schizophrenia ...
Surely you mean Satanism, not schizophrenia.

>> No.25579625

>>25579615

Why not both?

>> No.25579630

>I always wanted to write RPG campaigns with my spare time, but I'll get about three missions in and scrap the world for my next, better, powergamin' build
>scrap the world for my next, better, powergamin' build
Wait, what does that even mean?

>> No.25579653

>they can't find anything that could be skewed as sexual assault so they decide to paint him as generally 'weird'.

Dat desperation.

>> No.25579663

>>25579630
It means that either he has been horribly misquoted or that he has no idea how worldbuilding works.

>> No.25579682

>>25579604
Given that he worked for the agency most likely to Party Van people, and given the whole "Don't Mess With Football" debacle... it's safe to say that he was probably paid to surf 4chan.

>> No.25579683

>>25579630
He'd stop world building and instead try to be a even bigger powergaming munchkin

>> No.25579684

>>25579663
Judging from the overall journalistic quality, the former is pretty credible, but if that's what he said he may well have meant that he was building adventure sets, and was being gygaxian about it.

>> No.25579694

>>25579663
Mind you, these quotes are from 12 years ago.

That being said,
>I always wanted to write RPG campaigns with my spare time, but I'll get about three missions in and scrap the world for my next, better, powergamin' build

that sounds like a parodical mishmash of RPG terms

>> No.25579696

>On May 7, 2004, Snowden enlisted in the United States Army as a Special Forces recruit but did not complete the training.[1][17] He said he wanted to fight in the Iraq war because "I felt like I had an obligation as a human being to help free people from oppression".[6] However, he said he was discharged four months later on September 28 after having broken both of his legs in a training accident.
Fucking
Holy shit

>> No.25579711

>>25579447
The NSA whistle-blower that decided to tell the US people that the NSA was recording all our messages and phone calls if we use a US based phone company.

>>25579476
Dark Heresy? Spycraft? Shadowrun? Resistance?

>> No.25579713

>>25579696
One hell of a training accident.

>> No.25579716

>>25579630
That he has a short attention span

>> No.25579752

>>25579711

Conspiracy X? You can actually play an NSA analyst and yes, you do get the special ability to access secret wiretaps and so on. Except when they wrote the book, it was just as cool a conspiracy theory as aliens and psychics...

>> No.25579759

>>25579696
>>25579713
Had his legs broken for being a massive fucking faggot.

He exposed the country's secrets all because he was bullied in army school.

>> No.25579773

>>25579487
He is already dead, traitors like him do not deserve to live in this world. Spy-craft has a two thousand year history and he disgraced that. They got him the moment he was alone, the guy is just a double, he won't give them anything substantial

>> No.25579781

>>25579759

Funny, but nobody would seriously compare legbreaking to bullying.

>He exposed the country's secrets all because he was bullied in army school.

Not the country, but of an criminal faction that is committing illegal acts against the country. Key difference.

>> No.25579782

>>25579759
Actually, it was probably because he recognised an inconsistency in the legal values of his nation and his job, which violated those values and the rights of many, many people.

>> No.25579788

>>25579759
Go fuck yourself.
you and I both know that what the US did and is still probably doing is bullshit of the highest caliber.

>> No.25579802

>>25579788
Not just the USA. The UK's doing it too in a pretty major way.

So's absolutely everybody else, probably, but we don't have evidence for that yet.

>> No.25579809

>>25579773
>Leaks disgracing spycraft
pfftt
Double agents are completely legitimate tactics.

>> No.25579812

>>25579773
>traitors like him do not deserve to live in this world
Governments exist to serve the people. PRISM is an unconstitutional program that is itself treasonous. Exposing it - especially given the knowledge that he would likely die in prison - makes Snowden a hero and a true patriot.

>> No.25579818

>>25579781
>Not the country, but of an criminal faction that is committing illegal acts against the country.
Just because you don't like them doesn't mean they're illegal.

>> No.25579833

>>25579773
Copying documents and making them publically available (not to a rival agency or anything) isn't spycraft, it's whistleblowing.

>> No.25579836

>>25579809
Yeah, you can't really disgrace spies. Having no honour is pretty much their defining characteristic.

>> No.25579839

>>25579818
Maybe not illegal, due to the bullshit liberties we have granted programs like that.
But unconstitutional? Hell fucking yes.

>> No.25579842

>>25579836
So you are saying that he disgraced spycraft by having morals and shit?

>> No.25579857

>>25579839
That matter will probably be referred to the Supreme Court at some point.

In particularly, it's doings would have to be declared "unreasonable search."

>> No.25579865

>>25579711

He also gave evidence that the UK was spying for political leverage

>> No.25579872

The founding father's attempts to prevent the creation of an all encompassing centralised police/intelligence group has led to the creation of something much worse.

America isn't even America anymore.

>> No.25579873

>>25579818
Goes against the constitution and the will of the people, is illegal. They're traitors, period.

Is anyone surprised by the numbers of authoritarian traitors on /tg/?

>> No.25579877

Call of Cthulhu would make a good enough game to play 'cold warrior' style spies. The sanity mechanic could even be kept in so you have the fun choice between everyone making fun of you for seeing a therapist, getting out of the game or crippling mental illness.

Being spy is suffering

>>25579773

Spies like ninjas have no honour but live for honour. Spyjutsu has a impeccable reputation of loyalty, honour and good ideas.

>> No.25579878

>>25579713
My dad is SF

The training accidents are brutal as shit. It's not uncommon for guys to die all the time. I remember when I was younger he was training Green Berets out in the woods in survival training and a few of the guys went missing. They turned up three days later dead from dehydration. Another guy that year had his arms blown off during an explosive exercise.

>> No.25579879

>>25579872
On the plus side, everyone knows, and everyone who isn't larping as an imperial agrees its bad.

>> No.25579896

>>25579773
>being a retarded fat ass nationalistic American

Shut up

>> No.25579897

>>25579873
His act was entirely constitutional though.

>> No.25579902

>>25579877
Delta Green.

>> No.25579907

>>25579878
Ow.

>> No.25579918

>>25579781
>an criminal faction
>a legitimate employee of the government doing what they were payed to do
Sounds about right.

>> No.25579924

>>25579857
The espionage charges against Snowden aren't likely to be tossed even if PRISM is found to be unconstitutional. There's not really an escape clause there for "it's OK to reveal national secrets as long as those secrets are illegal things the country is doing". It's not like self defense being a generally accepted excuse to kill a person.

He's fucked even if the program is canned and oversight is put in to make sure it doesn't happen again.

>> No.25579925

Really this is just another case of technology having moved waaaaaay faster than laws. Given that it's quite possible to monitor everything people say and do online, we need a nice big global discussion about whether people have a right to privacy, how far this right extends, and under what circumstances it can be broken. And then maybe vote on the issue to establish clear limits.

>inb4 90% of people vote to let their governments keep right on spying because Aaaaaah! Terrorism!

>> No.25579932

>>25579896
>not getting a joke
I fucking spoilered it and everything so you got the actual statement, and then the joke second.

>> No.25579935

>>25579872
It seems kind of funny, you know.
I mean, Big Brother was supposed to be a parody of cold-war-era surveillance, not a roadmap for wannabe despots.
>>25579896
>Implying any actual american thinks that

>> No.25579948

>>25579918
>If you pay someone to violate another person's rights it's totally alright!
Dude, that really makes no sense.

>> No.25579949

>>25579924
That's why he's going for asylum.

>> No.25579950

>>25579902

Yeah, it'd be an incredible resource for this sort of game - they even have agent creation rules.

>> No.25579962

This dude sounds chill as fuck.

>> No.25579968

>>25579873
>constitution
Written by a bunch of old dudes and proven to be not be infallible by virtue of amendments and supreme court rulings.

>the will of the people
The framers only cared about the will of the rich and regarded the common folk as dangerous and easily deluded. They were probably onto something with that last part.

>> No.25579972

>>25579918
You go against the oldest legal document in the country, you are a criminal. Period. You don't like the constitution, get the fuck out.

>legitimate

My sides have ventured into the Far Realm.

>> No.25579986

>>25579873
>Goes against the constitution is illegal.
Yep.

>Goes against the will of the people is illegal.
Nope.

>They're traitors, period.
Treason is a specific crime of which the authors of PRISM are almost certainly not guilty.

You have a very poor understanding of law.

>> No.25579987

>>25579968
The ammendments were all in keeping with the constitution, so your argument there is invalid. The supreme court's tendency to add policy that's clearly not in the document doesn't mean the document is wrong, it means they're wrong. But nobody's going to stop them, so it does prove the document is inadequate.

>> No.25579988

>>25579935
Nineteen-Eightyfour was written in 1948. Its not a parody, its a warning.

>> No.25579990

>>25579968
Edgy AND a namefag!

>> No.25579994

>>25579972
It was unconstitutional, sure. But no matter how you look at it, this wasn't a faction.

>> No.25579995

>>25579925
Honestly, it's the potentially international nature of the issue that's probably going to be the saving grace for privacy. No way in hell is any major nation going to want an American company doing business in their borders if it means the US government has access to all of that country's citizens' data in that company's systems, and things like Huawei's spy chips in their smartphones sold in the US can only really ensure that privacy becomes guaranteed by treaty and/or trade agreement sooner rather than later.

>> No.25579996

>>25579696
>He said he wanted to fight in the Iraq war because "I felt like I had an obligation as a human being to help free people from oppression".
>help free people from oppression
>enlists in the US army

>> No.25580004

>>25579935
No it wasn't. It was supposed to be a "look out! This shit could happen!" book.

>> No.25580015

>>25579996
He was a dumb teenager. Read the Guardian's biography. He was quickly disabused of that notion. He also initially thought Obama would make things better.

>> No.25580017

>>25579986

1.
a person who betrays another, a cause, or any trust.
2.
a person who commits treason by betraying his or her country.

Traitors under both senses of the word, so yeah.

>> No.25580025

>>25579968
While I agree with the first ofyour statements on its own, the context of your reply seems to imply that you in fact support these surveillance programs.
I sincerely hope I have misunderstood the intention of your post, because otherwise you would be a goddamn idiot.

>> No.25580033

>>25579925
Now, here's the thing, people assume that the whole of the internet is private conversations when it just doesn't work that way, our machines are basically just shouting into the air very precise messages and every machine but the intended recipient and several nosy eavesdroppers just ignores or forwards message to the intended recipient.

We're broadcasting everything publicly and our machines parse our the private conversations. Government agencies just don't give a shit about respecting apparent privacy because HOLY SHIT, WOULD YOU LOOK AT THIS INFORMATION GOLD MINE

Making the internet and any general communications technology either A) requires all users to take some serious schooling in encryption and shit like that, or B) rewriting entire families of communication protocols for our machines.

As nasty as PRISM seems, I'm pretty sure they aren't doing anything illegal by the letter of the law. I mean, there's got to be a shit-ton of technical loopholes because of the difference between how the technology functions in a literal sense and how the laws are worded legally.

>>25579924
Depending on the circumstances, self-defense is an entirely legal justification for homicide.

key words: >depending on the circumstances

>> No.25580035

>>25579996
Its reasonable to think Saddam was a tyrant who needed to GTFO, I knew many Iraqis who live in my hometown that were delighted as hell to see Saddam get his.

>> No.25580037

>>25580017
He betrayed his employers, but he didn't betray his country. A country is not just the government.
However, the fellow you're talking to is clearly referring to the legal definition specifically, so the definition you're citing is irrelevant.

>> No.25580038

>>25579968
Drop the name, you don't need it unless you're in a thread where a pre-established identity is required. Unless you're developing a game and this thread is about that game, or playing play-by-post game in /tg/ and this thread is that game (which it isn't) you don't need the name.

>> No.25580051

>>25580033
Protection vs unreasonable searches and seizures. Fuck them. Make them the sole inhabitants of Gitmo.

>> No.25580060

>>25580033
>Depending on the circumstances, self-defense is an entirely legal justification for homicide.
Yeah, that's the point. Self defense can get you off the hook for killing another human being. Exposing a secret US program to the public because the program is unconstitutional doesn't get you off the hook for espionage.

>> No.25580061

>>25580037
I'm referring to his employers, of course.

>> No.25580064

>>25580038
Well, it is a pretty good way to tell if someone's a complete and total faggot and you can safely ignore everything they say.

>> No.25580070

>>25580017
>1. a person who betrays another, a cause, or any trust.
Too loose. Moot "betrayed" me the day he made it illegal to announce reports, as I thought he had gutted the spirit of 4chan, but he's not a traitor.

>2. a person who commits treason by betraying his or her country.
What treason was here committed?

>> No.25580072

>>25580037
Fucking 'legal definitions', why do they exist?

On that topic, anyone know what the legal definition of 'person/people' is?

>> No.25580075

You know what I never fucking understood about Amurrrikah?

Why the fuck are we so afraid to contradict what the "founding fathers" said? Like, even fucking left wing news outlets/intellectuals/authors avoid crossing them

The founding fathers were white former aristocrats who owned slaves 200 years ago. How could they have known about mass production of fire arms or corporations replacing craftworkers and artisans.

>> No.25580077

>>25580070
That rule was in place for bloody years.

>> No.25580091

>>25580077
4chan has been around for more than a few bloody years.

>> No.25580093

>>25579990
How is that edgy?
Do you even know what that word means?

>>25579987
I actually had thought about in that way.

>>25580025
I don't support surveillance programs but I believe that this "will of the people" stuff is nonsense considering how out of touch so many people are with politics and global affairs.

>>25580038
>Stop doing what I don't like you to do!

>> No.25580098

>>25580075
The same way that people still think the ideas of Greek philosophers are still relevant. Because they're useful and have been established into modern social structures, for many of those structures they have become an important basis.

>> No.25580100

>>25580075
The Constitution is the basis of our government. It proscribes the government's role, and each member state has agreed to abide by it. Without the constitution, our federal government has no validity just as each state government would be invalid without its constitution. Generally we don't pay that much attention to things the founding fathers said outside the constitution, besides a few specific things that are notable for their wisdom.

>> No.25580102

>>25580093

Seriously, namefag, stop being a namefag.

Just cut that shit out.

>> No.25580104

>>25580075
>How could they have known about mass production of fire arms
You do know the intention of that was everyone has a gun, right?
Right?

>> No.25580113

>>25580093
Hey
Buzzclaw
Stop being a cocksucking faggot
Thanks.

>> No.25580115

>>25580075
>How could they have known about mass production of fire arms or corporations replacing craftworkers and artisans.
How are either of these relevant to anything in the constitution?

>> No.25580117

>>25580075
>>25580098
I'd argue that it's a cultural relic of America's English heritage.

The founding fathers= America's Knights of The Round Table

>> No.25580119

>>25579802
>So's absolutely everybody else, probably, but we don't have evidence for that yet.

Oh come on. China and Russia practically advertise it. France at one point supported a morally questionable African official and gifted him with a throne of gold.

>> No.25580125

>>25579968
This

This so fucking hard.

>> No.25580129

>>25580117
Well, thanks for all but proving you're just trolling.

>> No.25580130

>>25580038
>be anon or else
I hate idiots like you.

>> No.25580131

>>25580093
It isn't a case of 'stop doing what I don't like', its a case of 'its against the rules to use a name when you don't need one'.

>13. Do not use avatars or attach signatures to your posts.
Your name is a textual avatar.

Also, people aren't going to take you seriously.

>> No.25580132

Yeah, I don't know about the rest of you but I view the man as heroic. He stood for his ideals and showed that the government had basically ripped up the constitution and was pissing on the scrap with the fourth amendment.

It takes a great deal of courage to do what he did. Like or hate what he did, the man definitely had courage.

>> No.25580137

>>25580119
>China and Russia practically advertise it.
Yeah, but AFAIK we don't have specific evidence for it.

>> No.25580141

>>25580130
It's sort of the point of an anonymous imageboard.

>> No.25580143

>>25580130
There was no "or else". He's describing proper use of a name, and he's not wrong.

>> No.25580145

>>25580051
But it's not really an unreasonable search or seizure, the information isn't being prevented from reaching its destination, just observed and copied as it passes through the streams, and they aren't doing illegal searching because thousands of allegedly 'private' communiques are being routed through your and my computer, the software/hardware just parses it out of our perception because we have no intention of dealing with that information.

Your data is out there, freely available to anyone who wants to look at it and has the know-how to build a machine capable of reporting it to them. You might get caught on trumped up charges and an undereducated untechnical jury if you get caught, but that's the system at work. It's not illegal to look at papers somebody throws out a window and hopes they get to the intended recipient. It's implicitly blind trust in the public's goodwill, not a foundation of security.

>> No.25580147

/tg/ i am proud

>> No.25580150

>>25580131
Now, I agree names on 4chan are fucking stupid, but that's not how that rule works.

>> No.25580153

>>25580130
>I hate people who reinforce anonymity on an anonymous imageboard.
Are you retarded?

>> No.25580159

>>25580147
It's politics time!
inb4 "the tenth amendment means secession is the right of the state"

>> No.25580163

>>25580147
If shit-rate political discussions impress you, you should head on over to /pol/. You'll have a fucking blast.

>> No.25580165

>>25580132
How the fuck can you hate him?

Would you rather he not tell everyone about their privacy being leaked? Who in the fuck does this even hurt besides American cellphone corporations and the reputation of the NSA?

What is there to hate about this? I can't fathom why people from both the left and right are demanding his head on a platter

>> No.25580166

>>25580159
>inb4 "the tenth amendment means secession is the right of the state"
But it does. It literally says that things not provided for in the constitution are the rights of the state or the people meaning the federal government has no legal say over whether a state gets to secede.

>> No.25580169

>>25580165
>I can't fathom why people from both the left and right are demanding his head on a platter
They're government shills.

>> No.25580171

>>25580145
>But it's not really an unreasonable search or seizure

It is the very definition of unreasonable.

>aren't doing illegal searching

I have the right to privacy.

> It's implicitly blind trust

So because we blindly trust the government not to do illegal and unreasonable searches and seizures, they are now legal and reasonable. HOLY CIRCULAR LOGIC BATMAN!

>> No.25580183

>>25580165
>I can't fathom why people from both the left and right are demanding his head on a platter
Most of them are doing it because of some part of the government, often as false personas. Ask /pol/ about it some time, in many cases they can show and prove that it's the case.

>> No.25580190

>>25580165
Man, I knew McCain was Obama's BFF in authoritarianism from day one, that's why I voted for Obama. I didn't think people could wrap their heads around a pro-war vet on the right who wanted gun control.

>> No.25580194

>>25580131
>Your name is a textual avatar.
I don't know what to say Anon. I don't even have a reaction image for it.

>>25580129
It's not really trolling. Most/all of the founding fathers are English descendants. They probably know all about the Kings and Politicians of the old country but when they split, fuck da Brits.
The founding fathers filled a void that was left by revolution.

>>25580147
Putting anything in the subject field negates the sage.

>> No.25580197
File: 39 KB, 450x600, costanza.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
25580197

>>25580190
>Man, I knew McCain was Obama's BFF in authoritarianism from day one, that's why I voted for Obama.

>> No.25580202
File: 197 KB, 400x278, Hello operator? k please.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
25580202

>>25580075
IIRC, weren't firearms on the way to be made of interchangable parts as well as industrial processes slowly coming to the fore of invention, implying a near future where weapons could be mass produced.

Regardless of that, firearms were fairly easy to procure, such that the prominent sharpshooting rifle of the day was a common hunting tool.

That's the equivalent of hunters today using... I don't know a Barret Light Fifty? And no, I don't think that's exaggeration of stopping power, rounds back in the day were fairly large and were basically very primitive AET munitions.

>> No.25580209

>>25580194
>Putting anything in the subject field negates the sage.
Why put something this blatant in a post where you claim to not be trolling?

>> No.25580218

>>25579968

Ben was a bro

>> No.25580223

>>25580131
signature is not a name

>> No.25580227
File: 78 KB, 612x612, 1371445418682.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
25580227

>>25580169
Not precisely. He made a big mess and uncovered that the government was doing things that it shouldn't be. Albeit it was doing things it shouldn't be in the pursuit of terrorists.

In this case it really is a question of, "should we be doing things that go against everything we are to save lives"? And to many people, the answer is yes. No sacrifice is too great to save us from a bunch of backwater hicks living in the mountains of Afghanistan and Pakistan. If it means putting the constitutional protections we enjoy through a paper shredder, they'd cheer.

Plus he broke DA RULEZ. There are laws against doing what he did. And to some people that's all that matters.

Give 'em a chance and they'd happily send a squad of drones to Hong Kong to kill the man.

I don't hate these people but I sure do pity the fuck out of 'em. They're sadly misguided.

>> No.25580228

>>25580194
Drop the name.

>> No.25580230

>>25580165
>Who in the fuck does this even hurt besides American cellphone corporations and the reputation of the NSA?
Good point, actually. Any criminals who weren't already assuming that the government could intercept their electronic communications are probably too dumb to worry about anyway.

Although having said that... didn't the leaks reveal that they couldn't directly access communications that were more than 50% in the US? I can picture international terrorists being very keen on getting American VPNs as a result...

>> No.25580241

>>25580227
>Plus he broke DA RULEZ. There are laws against doing what he did. And to some people that's all that matters.
Pretty sure this is the biggest reason.

>> No.25580244

>>25580223
It actually is.

A signature is a proof of identity, which has the same function of a name.

>> No.25580247

>>25580153
You (and the other anon) are not moderators or janitors, you don't "enforce" anything.
Telling people to go Anonymous has as much weight as telling to stop posting Monster Girls.

>>25580228
Go back to /v/

>>25580218
>Ben was a pimp
FTFY

>>25580209
Because it's true? I do the same thing to ">hurr durr sageing with an image" posts.

>> No.25580251

>>25580230
>didn't the leaks reveal that they couldn't directly access communications that were more than 50% in the US?
No, you're mixed up. Their method of determining whether something is a foreigner communicating rather than an American is 51% successful.

>> No.25580272

>>25580165
>How the fuck can you hate him?
I read about what he was like when he was a teenager and he sounded like a right cunt.

As /tg/'s least favorite comic artist put it, "good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be condoned."

>> No.25580276

>>25580227
>Plus he broke DA RULEZ. There are laws against doing what he did. And to some people that's all that matters.
I love the irony in this doublethink. It's okay for the government to break the rules in the most vulgar way. It's not okay to break the rules to prove the government did. Gee, I wonder if this isn't a self-protecting loop that lets them do whatever they want.

>> No.25580280

>>25580247
>Because it's true?
In the unlikely event that you honestly believe this, go test it. Neither subjects nor images nor anything else outside of the email field can negate a sage.

>> No.25580288

>In this case it really is a question of, "should we be doing things that go against everything we are to save lives"?

This administration cares nothing for human life... has killed far more civilians in the name of saving civilians from terrorists, than actual terrorists have... and is directly arming Al-Qaida in Syria.

So we know that stopping terrorism isn't their goal, they are terrorism's biggest supporters.

Frankly, the reason I didn't see it sooner was precisely because of people going "OBAMA... OSAMA... COINCIDENCE???? LOL. HURR HE WASNT EVEN BORN HERE."

>> No.25580300

>>25580272
>As /tg/'s least favorite comic artist

Ben Garrison?

>> No.25580305

>>25580272
Are you from bizarro-/tg/?
How does the dude sound in any way dickish?
And how in the fuck does /tg/ hate Oglaf more than Goblins?

>> No.25580306

>>25580280
Images don't, subjects do. Trust me, I've tested it.

>> No.25580313

>>25580276
> and is directly arming Al-Qaida in Syria.
Who did you support at the outbreak of the conflict?

>>25580288
>Frankly, the reason I didn't see it sooner was precisely because of people going "OBAMA... OSAMA... COINCIDENCE???? LOL. HURR HE WASNT EVEN BORN HERE"
Wow, the fact that you managed to be fooled by a bunch of retards sure speaks wonders for your political judgment. But I'm sure you're completely right this time around.

>> No.25580317

>>25580117
You... you do know that the basis of the British legal system isn't the Knights of the Round Table, right?

>> No.25580321

>>25580171
>It is the very definition of unreasonable.
Assuming the below is true, yes.

>I have the right to privacy.
Wrong: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

I want somebody with legal know-how to elaborate how items on an invisible but easily publicly available datastream(s) count as "...papers, effects..." under the law.

>So because we blindly trust the government not to do illegal and unreasonable searches and seizures, they are now legal and reasonable.
>We blindly trust EVERYONE
also, fallacious statement, you are presuming the searches of datastreams being done to be unreasonable under the letter of the law, I am arguing otherwise.

>> No.25580323

>>25580276
The difference is one of power. The government is extremely powerful and MUST hold to a higher standard.

Snowden is an individual with virtually no power standing up against a government that doesn't hesitate to assassinate people with drones. Besides which, he did so as a REACTION to their own rule breaking. Breaking the rules to ensure that a large powerful entity with a lot of power is put back on the straight and narrow is RIGHT.

>>25580288
I was okay with Obama up until this. But at this point I have to consider him a continuation of Bush; the evidence is simply so great it hurts at this point. Not that McCain or god forbid Mitt Romney would have been any better. Oh god we dodged a bullet with Romney.

>> No.25580325 [DELETED] 

>>25580305
>How does the dude sound in any way dickish?
Goblins artist was purged from my memory. I forgot about him. In a few moments it will be repurged.

>How does the dude sound in any way dickish?
Statements like "I wanted to go to Iraq because I didn't want to be a selfish prick" and "look at all these materialist society people being materialist it disgusts me" made me think he was a cunt.

>> No.25580332

>>25580317
He has established that he's the proud owner of a few extra chromosomes several times in this thread.

>> No.25580334

>>25580305
>And how in the fuck does /tg/ hate Oglaf more than Goblins?
Goblins artist was purged from my memory. I forgot about him. In a few moments it will be repurged.

>How does the dude sound in any way dickish?
Statements like "I wanted to go to Iraq because I didn't want to be a selfish prick" and "look at all these materialist society people being materialist it disgusts me" made me think he was a cunt.

>> No.25580337

>>25580098

Well, some greek philosopher pose interesting questions about ethics and moral. look at the whole sophist movement

>> No.25580345

>>25580305
/tg/ likes Oglaf. A few summerfags thing otherwise.

>> No.25580358

>>25580247
>WAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH THEY DON'T LIKE MY SPESHUL NAAAAAAAMMMMEEE
You don't need it, you are abusing the use of the Name field.

>> No.25580359

>>25580345
Eh.
When the joke is just "sex LOL" it gets boring.

>> No.25580366

>>25580359
People flamed him for his Seagull Paladin comic and that threw me for a loop since I thought that one was legitimately funny on top of being entirely nonsexual.

>> No.25580378

>>25580159
>right of the state and the people

and on the second amendment because I've seen it mentioned but can't be asked to quote a specific post

>A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
I hate how people go and say, "well, yeah, police are the militia, so the public doesn't need firearms"

Even if that were both a true and sensible thing to say, it ignore the fact that the amendment states, in paraphrase:
>because a well-regulated militia is necessary to our nation's security, the government, state or federal, may not pass laws that infringe upon the right of individual persons to keep and bear arms

>shall not infringe
all states are doing at least a little bit of infringement; hell, I'm pretty sure you can say that any criminal who didn't commit a crime with a firearm retains that right

>> No.25580382

>>25580317
Buzzclaw is our resident moron. He posts a lot of dumb shit.

>> No.25580391

>>25580366
Yeah but those people are retards. Don't assume they represent /tg/. Fuck 'em.

>> No.25580395

>>25580317
My point was that the founders occupy the same folkloric niche and have been mythologised.

>>25580358
And why do you care?

>> No.25580398

>>25580244
not on the internet, they're two entirely different things, asshole

>> No.25580411

>>25579839
The Supreme Court has an uncanny knack for siding with common reason and the Constitution. This will almost definitely be brought forth and cut to ribbons by the men and women in robes.

>> No.25580421

>>25580411
yeah man they would never side with such stupid notions as "corporate personhood" they always interpret the constitution the way the ACLU always wants them to

>> No.25580426
File: 17 KB, 430x121, kodt.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
25580426

Maybe the British government isn't based on the Knights of the Round Table, but we could reform it based on the principles of the Knights of the Dinner Table maybe?

>> No.25580430

>>25580382
It's too bad being an irredeemable idiot isn't bannable.

>> No.25580436

>>25580395
Because I don't want this place to turn into /v/, where the only people who use names are trolls and everyone who uses them is automatically flamed.

Names are useful, but they shouldn't be abused, which is what you're doing.

There are people who don't like what you're saying, they attach that dislike to the name, people recognise the attachment of dislike to names as a way of pissing people off, it demonstrably snowballs until they attach general dislike to all people who use names.

>> No.25580448

>>25580430
Authoritarian sociopaths with learning disabilities deserve to speak their mind too.

>> No.25580450

>>25580251
After googling, looks like they need 51% confidence that someone's not American. Although...

>In the absence of specific information regarding whether a target is a United States person," it states "a person reasonably believed to be located outside the United States or whose location is not known will be presumed to be a non-United States person unless such person can be positively identified as a United States person.

So non-American until proven American, basically.

>> No.25580460

>>25580450
That sounds in no way abusable.

>> No.25580465

>>25580430
Isn't being an irredeemable idiot and getting away with it the entire point of 4chan?

Granted, Buzzy here goes and ruins that by removing his anonymity, but hey, the man's brave, and therefore a hero, like that Snowden guy

He fights for /us/!

>> No.25580468

>>25580450
51% is the standard of evidence used in civil cases: "preponderance of evidence." A man is not required to be found guilty before a search can be conducted upon him.

>> No.25580474

>>25580450
Wait wait waitwaitwait.

>49% Of Americans are assumed to be non-American.

My god. Mitt Romney was right. He was just two percentage points off.

>> No.25580477

I have honestly seen better political discussion in /pol/, and /pol/ is a shithole.

This is pathetic.

>> No.25580479
File: 283 KB, 433x287, zergface noobtube.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
25580479

>>25580465
>>25580474

Ooooh, BOY!

>> No.25580491

>>25580477
well, I don't have an image macro for calling in /pol, just /k/

>> No.25580499

>>25580491
Fuck you, you do NOT call in /pol/ to this goddamn board.

The saging /pol/tard is probably offended we haven't started with a bunch of racism and ron paul image macros, so fuck him with a rake.

>> No.25580507

>>25580436
I've used it for two years. I ain't changing because your panties are in a twist.

You say you don't want to this place to turn into /v/ yet YOU are acting like a /v/ user by derailing the thread into a rules tirade by singling out someone.

>>25580382
>Buzzclaw is our resident moron.
Don't tell Vroom vroom, it'll break his heart if he knows that I've replaced him.

>> No.25580514
File: 171 KB, 1536x726, c3de5f8ae77c02371b528aa478d17e1a[1].png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
25580514

/tg/.

>> No.25580515

>>25580499
Why not? It would honestly improve the level of discussion in this thread.

>> No.25580517

>>25580499
There's fuckin huge /pol/ crossover between there and /tg/.

>> No.25580521
File: 90 KB, 640x354, KNIFE HANDS!.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
25580521

>>25580499
here, take this, it's dangerous out there

>> No.25580533

>>25580517
Not really
In fact, I remember several not-summer threads where it was generally agreed that /pol/ was in fact the shittiest board.

>> No.25580538

>>25580517
I hate fucking /pol/ shit so much.

>> No.25580541

>>25580499
>ron paul image macros
Actually, I've seen people arguing that Snowden should have given the info to Ron Paul instead of going to the media. Haven't looked into it, but apparently Ron Paul could get away with revealing this stuff in an official capacity.

>> No.25580542

>>25580533
Yes, and as insufferably shitty and worthless as /pol/ is, the level of discussion is not any better here.

In fact, one of the major reasons /pol/ is generally agreed to be the shittiest board is that it's unable to keep its topics contained with in itself. Oh look, the topic spilled out into /tg/. Color me surprised.

>> No.25580543

>>25580515
No, it would not. Fuck you and everyone that likes /pol/.

>>25580517
I'm a /tg/ oldfag. Actually I'm a 4chan oldfag, I've been about off and on since a year after the start of the site.

I'm one of those people that hates /pol/ and am quite content with never, ever bringing that horseshit in here. /tg/ is the best board on 4chan, or at least it used to be. Flood it with shit and you don't improve the shit. You turn it to shit.

So keep /pol/ in the fucking ghetto where it belongs. Any true fa/tg/uy will tell you the exact same thing. Those that say otherwise are assumed to be no true fa/tg/uys and drone strikes will be ordered on their position.

>> No.25580546

>>25580507
Thanks for making /tg/ a worse place than it needs to be. You truly are an inspiration.

>> No.25580553

>>25580533
>>25580517
The /pol/ crossover is generally subtle (complaining about black kids in YGO).

The only overt examples are Vroomers and that one guy who kept posting "INFINITY HAS A MUSLIM ARMY AND I DON'T LIKE IT!"

>> No.25580555

>>25580543
>Fuck you and everyone that likes /pol/.
I detest /pol/. Uneducated retards screaming at each other like they know what they're talking about.

That, incidentally, should tell you what I think of this thread.

>it used to be.
Times change, gramps.

>> No.25580564

>>25580421
Yes, Thompkins v Eerie Railroad was a travesty. Did you also bother looking at the dates? Sounds like you're cherry picking.

>> No.25580574

>>25580553
>The only overt examples

Keyword is overt. People assume the only /pol/ types are the obvious racists, just like others might assume the only /tg/ emigrants are 40kids.

>> No.25580575
File: 5 KB, 201x201, yes, and..?.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
25580575

>>25580542
So we're blaming /pol/ for every outbreak of politics in any thread ever for any reason?

This is /tg/, son, we segue into everything from any available topic, why do you even go to other boards besides /d/?

>> No.25580592

>>25580564
oh so it's like one of those nonbinding legacy decisions like plessy v. ferguson that was overturned once we arrived in a more civilized era, right

>>25580575
I wouldn't give a shit if you people were being intelligent about it.

>> No.25580616

>>25580575
Agreed. Frankly this discussion is nowhere near /pol/ tier bad and I'm offended by the lonlely /pol/tard that wandered in and decided it sucked because not enough "it's happening" memes.

/tg/ is and always has been free to discuss whatever the fuck it likes. This is actually a good subject for a cyberpunk style game.

This whole thread I've been thinking, "how would characters react to this" and, "I guess this is how the common guy would."

>> No.25580619
File: 605 KB, 267x200, 1358524594087.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
25580619

>>25580592
I wouldn't be posting image macros if you'd help edify this little salon.

>> No.25580628

>>25580553
>The /pol/ crossover is generally subtle (complaining about black kids in YGO)
What about the ranting about 'feminazis'? Is that not a /pol/ thing too?

I wouldn't know, I don't actually go to /pol/. I've heard that it's not actually as bad as the trolls it exports, though.

>> No.25580655

>>25580592
You do realize that for a decision to be overturned, it must be brought forth again.

>> No.25580659

>>25580616
There's plenty of people from /pol/ in this thread, and you seem amazingly mad at that board for some reason.

>> No.25580663

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH2w6Oxx0kQ

>> No.25580670

>>25580628
That could just as easily come from /v/ or even /co/ but it might be.

Also HFY probably attracts some of the /pol/ crowd.

>> No.25580676

>>25579682
>the whole "Don't Mess With Football" debacle...
Say what?

>> No.25580677

>>25580655
it's almost like they had a chance to overthrow that outdated piece of shit decision in citizens united but didn't

oops

>> No.25580700

>>25580670
I have seen alignment, space marines, and HFY on /pol/, amongst other things.

>> No.25580729

>>25580700
>alignment on /pol/
I'm not sure if I want to know more.

Space Marines are easy to understand but I wonder what they think about Salamanders.

>> No.25580730
File: 883 KB, 300x240, YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
25580730

>>25580676
YOU DON'T MESS WITH FOOTBALL

>> No.25580733

I haven't been to many boards, but interestingly enough the least /pol/ board I've seen is /mu/. It's full of horrible shitposting and much of it is basically dedicated to one giant in-joke about plebs and patricians, but it also seems to have zero time for racism or sexism.

>> No.25580754

>>25580733
Mediocrity is the shelter from the storm of prejudice.

>> No.25580803

>>25580670
Most of the people attracted to the HFY threads seem to be people who never grew out of that angsty teenager phase and constantly bitch about them.

>> No.25580805
File: 624 KB, 477x471, I've seen some shitler mang.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
25580805

>>25580575
>So we're blaming /pol/ for every outbreak of politics in any thread ever for any reason?

...yes.

We've always done that. Jesus, it's like you weren't even around during 9/11 when all the boards got flooded with /b/'s conspiratards.

It's not like we're even segueing at this point, usually what happens is someone will post a link to something not even vaguely related like that Swedish Battlestar Galactica LARP that got to use a real swedish warship as its setting:
>http://www.theverge.com/2013/6/3/4391736/real-life-battlestar-galactica-larp-could-be-coming-to-america

...and the thread will diverge from there.

>> No.25580815

>>25580805
Dude, /tg/ wasn't around during 9/11.

>> No.25580863
File: 52 KB, 410x436, 1366476772826.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
25580863

>>25580227

>No sacrifice is too great to save us from a bunch of backwater hicks living in the mountains of Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Backwater hicks living in mountains. FREEDOM's worst enemy.

>> No.25580878

>>25580863
inb4 Appalachia

>> No.25580943
File: 108 KB, 506x700, 24f2e367a1e9a10341d380e91f908ae067a3ed6b.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
25580943

>>25580815
>/tg/ wasn't around during 9/11
>not being around for the epic "Fly to Heaven" quest threads /tg/ did
>being this new

Next you'll be telling me that the "elf slav, wat do?" copy pasta didn't originate during the 90s when the balkans was the biggest conflict the US was involved in.

>> No.25580977

Sure is summer in here.

>> No.25581187

>>25580272
>least favourite
>oglaf
/tg/ loves Oglaf what the fuck are you talking about

>> No.25581259
File: 1.08 MB, 382x300, 1371300794451.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
25581259

You see, whenever this kind of thing turns up the plot to Metal Gear Solid 3 pops up in my head.

Americans, this guy is not a traitor, he's a bit of a fuck up and attention whore (I read some of his Ars Technica forum posts).
But he's not a traitor,

You want to know traitors? Here's a recent one
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2012/10/10/ns-delisle-spy-hearing.html

>> No.25581682

>>25580163
If this was /pol/ it would be overtaken by shitposting about jews, FEMA, Bilderberg, THANKS HUSSEIN OBAMA et al in moments.

/pol/ isn't for discussion. /pol/ is for containment.

>> No.25581700

>>25580334
What should he have said? "GAWD DEMN I'M GONNA KILL ME A RAGHEAD" maybe?

>> No.25581723

>>25580517
That's not crossover. /d/ and /tg/? That's crossover.

/pol/ and any other board? That's a containment breach.

So fuck off right back to your little hive.

>> No.25581998

>>25579481
Couldn't agree more. The guy's a traitor and hasn't exposed any crimes at all. He's an attention whore with a persecution complex.

>> No.25582066

>>25581998
One man's traitor is another man's revolutionary hero. Perspective man, not everything is cut and dry.

>> No.25582204

>>25582066

More importantly "what" he is doesn't really matter.

>> No.25583179

>>25579476
Have a look at Night's Black Agents, its the GUMSHOE game of ex-spies and vampire conspiracies. It's like Delta Green if uncovering the clues to the conspiracy didn't send you stark raving mad (only incredibly paranoid).

>> No.25584862

>>25579935
>mfw there are people who've never read 1984 yet talk about it as if they were authorities

>> No.25585439

>>25580430
It is actually, but it doesn't happen that often.

>> No.25585470

>>25580538
We talked about politics in just the same way long before /pol/ existed.

>>
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