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25476382 No.25476382 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

What's the shittiest part of this game?

>> No.25476391

Bumping for interest. I'll be paying my first Pathfinder campaign this week.

>> No.25476392

The 3.5 Engine it is built on.

>> No.25476407

>>25476392
Came here to post this. It's just 3.5 with houserules and glitter thrown over it, which means it continues the grand traditions of Caster Edition.

That said, I still play it and have fun with it.

>> No.25476420

Lists lists lists lists lists.

It transcends "simulationist".

>> No.25476607
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25476607

>>25476392
The original engine.

Don't get me wrong, the game is fine, but there's always some part where everything stinks. Like the flat 5% chance of failure in each roll, and how so many GMs forget that this excludes skill checks.

Also how it gives monsters skills out the wazoo. Pick a reasonably high level monster, it will have at least 2 nonsensical skills at ridiculously high levels because of it's stats.

>> No.25477073

>>25476382
it perpetuates the close-mindedness of of combat focused d20 gameplay that needs a a number buried in rules for anything and discourages everything other than "I hit it with my +2 weapon"

>> No.25477081

>>25476392
Agreed.
/thread

>> No.25477105

It's pretty good.
The extra rulebooks add on some neat classes.
Problems? I swear a lot of the rules are fucking hidden in nooks and crannys.

>> No.25477133

Chargen for me.

>> No.25477138

>>25477105
Thats why i use the pfsrd, all the rules collected in one spot.

>> No.25477139

>>25476607
Skill checks never automatically fail on a natural 1.

For fuck's sake.

Neither do they automatically succeed on a natural 20.

>> No.25477143

>>25476382
Organized Play.

There's not much room for roleplay when the GM is just trying to rush who ever showed up to game that night through PFS modules they've run dozens of times before.

If you're gaming with family & friends, though, its as good as most other systems, provided you remember Rule 0.

>> No.25477152

>>25477143
What?
Isn't that the fault of your DM then?

>> No.25477173 [DELETED] 

>>25476607
>GMs forget that this excludes skill checks.
But it explicitly states that it does exclude skill checks, both 3.5 and PF.

>> No.25477198

Combat in the game is hella boring. There really isn't all that much interesting stuff to do, and monsters seem to vary in effectiveness from: "accomplish nothing at all" to "instantly remove 1-5 PCs' abilities to take actions for 5 rounds, then start killing them quite effectively".

Also, the skill system (not to mention canned campaigns) is designed in such a fashion that if you are not roughly as good at something as you can be at any given level, you are unable to succeed.

It's D&D 3.5, which is a pretty bad system.

>> No.25477205

Its detractors,

WE GET IT, WE LIKE WHAT YOU DON'T LIKE, SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY.

>> No.25477227

>>25477205
And miss a chance to talk shit about something inconsequential? What kind of nerd do you take me for?

>> No.25477242

That's it's not Runequest

>> No.25477267 [DELETED] 

>>25477173
That is why it is called forgetting.

>> No.25477315

>>25477139
This. I've been in game sessions where DMs treated it this way; they tended to be a bit broken.

>> No.25477359

>>25477139
Wait, is that supposed to be a complaint. Because I really fucking hate how an untrained moron has a 1/20 chance of presenting the most stirring, dramatic, speech in the history of spoken language, while the skilled athlete with a Dex of 20 has the same chance of falling face first off a balance beam they should otherwise be able to sleepwalk across.

>> No.25477371
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25477371

>>25476382
Building unarmed fighters that aren't monks...
Building monks for that matter...
Ef it, building mundanes in general.

>> No.25477399

>>25477359
No, it's a fact. The 1/20 thing is false.

>> No.25477592

>>25477139
They do at my table

I don't like how lots of things are feat-locked, personally

Like, you should be able to ready a charge without taking the Rhino Charge feat

Or I had another idea, adding a class feature to Fighters that lets them pick a combat feat and then treat themselves as if they had that feat for X amount of time, can use a number of times per day equal to STR modifier or something cool like that, maybe even call it Feats of Strength, it's thematic and everything

BRB gonna start homebrewing this

Also buff Fighters' skill points per level, 4 seems reasonable

>> No.25477637

>>25477371
Why would you expect to be able to take on someone with a weapon and armour while unarmed, and expect to survive for even a minute?

>> No.25477664

>>25477637
'cause realism and roleplay aren't the same fucking thing

>> No.25477769

/tg/ arguing about it.

>> No.25477792

>>25477073
This.

>> No.25477793

Being a cleric.

Clerics suck and can't do anything cool except heal, and healing is fucking boring and kind of stupid. When you are injured, you shouldn't just be able to say "magic!" and heal, injuries should have consequences and healing should take time.

>> No.25477822

>>25477793
>Clerics suck and can't do anything cool except heal

OH YE OF LITTLE FAITH

>> No.25477842

It's all anyone ever wants to play.

>> No.25477929
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25477929

>>25477637
Because combat manoeuvers are awesome and realistically sword and board should be superior to any other type of melee, but that ain't the case either, brother.

Also, beating the brutal stupid out of your slow tin can of an opponent is awesome. Maybe with a piece of metal strapped around your hands to not break your knuckles every time you take a swing.

>> No.25477948
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25477948

>>25477793

>> No.25478008

>>25477929
>realistically sword and board should be superior to any other type of melee

Bwahahahaha! Oh the delusions. And before you begin, you can replace sword and board with whatever the fuck else you feel like, it won't make any difference.

Stick to fantasy my dear and forget every word relating to "realism", you wouldn't know it if it shoved a pollaxe up your ass.

>> No.25478019

>>25477842

This.

I played it this weekend at my bachelor party. It was fucking awesome.

Personally, my least favorite thing about Pathfinder are the people who complain about it, but I'm the first to admit that includes me.

>> No.25478033

>>25477793
That's why you play 40k RPGs.

>> No.25478100

how it took the only fun thing about 3.5 (open multiclassing) and gutted it.

And its still caster edition. granted, it was built on a terribly flawed system. But any meaningful revision to 3.5 should have tried to fix the systems most notable flaws. It actually made them worse.

>> No.25478127
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25478127

>>25478008
Ooh, now I'm not going to be able to sleep all night. Please share your infinite wisdom of old-timey, armed fisticuffs then, sir.

>> No.25478170

>>25476391

Which AP are you doing?

On that topic, the top three APs are Kingmaker, Jade Regent, and Council of Thieves, so if you're doing one of those three than you're in the green.

>> No.25478192

>>25478100
um, no.

http://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/1/differences-between-dd-3-5-and-pathfinder

>> No.25478213

>>25477793

But Clerics are robust frontliners and have a dizzying array of buffs/debuffs.

Using a Cleric purely for it's healing properties is like using a computer just to play Solitaire.

>> No.25478235

>>25477929
>Because combat manoeuvers are awesome and realistically sword and board should be superior to any other type of melee, but that ain't the case either, brother.

>Sword and board is superior to any type of melee
>Sword and board
>Not Two-handed

What the fuck?

>> No.25478299

>>25478100
To be fair, multiclassing is shit, anyway. Why not just make a freeform character-building system rather than taking a class-based system and trying to make it freeform?

>> No.25478349

>>25478299
Or scale down prestige classes to level 1 and just offer it at the start, maybe even invent cool favored class bonuses

>> No.25478377

>>25478235
In DnD yeah, In real life, twohanders weren't the most effective thing around, else why didn't the majority of European nobility use that, back when their only job was killing other European nobility and their peasants?

>> No.25478390

>>25478377
>In real life, twohanders weren't the most effective thing around

Except that polearms were probably the most commonly used weapon in history

>> No.25478426

Well, if we aren't counting flaws it inherited from 3.5, I'd have to say the setting. Golarion is just fucking awful.

>> No.25478431

>>25478377
>else why didn't the majority of European nobility use that

Except they did.

Knights never used shields once they got to wearing plate. Guess what they did with that extra hand?

>> No.25478453

>>25478426
>Golarion is just fucking awful.

I don't know man, I find it fun enough.

Are you talking about if you looked at it from a universal perspective? I guess, but in the APs it's hella fun.

>Dat Cheliax

>> No.25478500

>>25478377
LotR wasn't a documentary, kid.

>> No.25478505

>>25478426
Oh please tell us why?

>> No.25478521
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25478521

To be even more specific, the most disgusting thing about 3.x in general is how easy it is to accidentally make a useless character. After years of reading up on various system optimization, I think I can honestly say that PF leaves the worst taste in my mouth.
It reminds me of a fat fucking neckbeard GM saying 'You can make whatever you want!' and then shouting, 'LOL! WRONG! TROLLFACE!' and throwing feces at you before running away when you pitch your concept.

>> No.25478523

It has too many things that one doesn't need to play the game.

It caters to the target audience that wants character building to be the centerpiece of the game, instead of just one more aspect of it.

Combat is too complex.

>> No.25478605

>>25478170
>Jade Regent
Second book is total shit though.

>> No.25478687

>>25478605

All the others make up for it though.

It's got some good pacing so far; once one plot point's done the other presents itself, unlike APs like Kingmaker or Serpent's Skull where they say "you're on your own" after the first battle.

>> No.25478778
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25478778

>>25478500
Totally could swear it was.

>>25478390
Well, yeah, it was easy to make and easy to train people in its use. It's great en masse. Still, the warrior class of most cultures opted for a bladed weapon along with a shield (and a knight on horse had a lance obviously) most of the time from early dark ages to high medieval times.

>>25478431
Egh, since when, the 1400's?

All right, this is silly, I'll drop it. Love you guys.

>> No.25479073

>>25478453
>>25478505
Because they rushed into it. They decided, "Well, we're going to have an equal opportunity world where everyone has a not![culture] of their own!" But instead of doing that the right way, they just made a bunch of shallow, self-contained nations like, "The America Nation," "The Arabia Nation," "The Rome Nation," "The China Nation," etc. BUT FANTASY! And instead of figuring out how any of this would interact, they're basically just separate playgrounds for the party to murder their way through depending on what they're in the mood for.

>> No.25479091

>>25478605
I didn't find much wrong with the second part, aside from a couple metagame aspects and the ogre mage fight at the end.
What makes it so bad?

>> No.25479165

>>25478213
Oh no, you fucking lie, you fucking liar.

Clerics are nothing but dainty-ass healbot niggers and you know it. This is fact and everybody who says otherwise is wrong and a faggot.

>> No.25479173

>>25477139
I kind of like the idea of introducing trouble on a natural 1 rather than calling it a failure. Like, you succeed on your check, but now you've got another problem complicating things. What do?

>> No.25479200
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25479200

>>25479073
oh, joy you said what i thought you would!

>> No.25479207

>>25476382
The fact that it tries to pass off carbon copying 3.5 as a new system by adding in a few minor house rules and mechanics, and then burying any doubt underneath some half-assed mechanics and lots of really fucking awful adventure paths and the most nonsensical, noncohesive, elaborately retarded setting.

>> No.25479215

>>25479073
I really hate settings like that, but I actually kind of like running Pathfinder enough to see it as a challenge. Now I get to add in details to the setting, and fluff areas as actually influenced by one another instead of each existing in their own little bubble.

>> No.25479234

>>25479073

I guess that's kind of lame, but it works out pretty well campaign-wise.

>>25479091

I think the problem with it was that it's supposed to be part of the meaty "Heroes Journey" but the vast majority of the book doesn't involve any caravaning at all (Book 3 more than made up for it though, same with Book 4.)

>> No.25479240

>>25479091
The ogre mage, the werebear, and pretty much all the "boss" enemies in that adventure path have been problems for me. My group has only ever survived them by the skin of their teeth, when nothing else has been much of a challenge.

>> No.25479241

>>25479200
I'm with this guy. Golarion is a cool place, and I don't even play Pathfinder.

>> No.25479266

>>25479073
And while that's unfortunate, they also wound up with a setting that is also fucking ripe with adventure. You can't walk five feet without bumping over a plot hook. And at least the universe isn't populated with speshulflakes.

Of all the things I hate about pathfinder, I think that I hate the setting the least.

>> No.25479271

>>25479200

>That Sargava

Reminds me of a game of Serpent's Skull where I played an heir to House Henderthane, and my entire "ulterior motive" for being there was to find a way to rejoin the colony back to the Empire.

>yfw I was otherwise an incredibly dapper Victorian-era British gentleman out on safari.

>> No.25479304

>>25479240
>My group has only ever survived them by the skin of their teeth

Why is Gutwad so fucking hard to kill? He's got 20 AC for a party that's probably level 1. That means a fully-blinged out Fighter only has a 25% chance of hitting him.

Then again, we lack a mage so we don't have access to the almighty Color Spray.

Even with the difficulty, I'm really loving the AP.

>> No.25479347

>>25479304
For me, he wasn't so hard to hit as he was hard to keep fucking still. Little bastard ran all over the damn place until we trapped him.

>> No.25479488
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25479488

>>25479200
>being this PIDF
Let me guess, you wrote that post yourself? I didn't say there was no history in the world, only that there was no interaction. I could've been clearer, but what I meant was that there's no reason Arabian Nights and Pirates of the Caribbean and The Brothers Grimm should be taking place concurrently and as neighbors, no less.

So sure, the 50 nation states of Golarion have some history, but that's the bare minimum required for a setting of this scale. It's not something they ought to be praised for.

And before you say, "But it's a fantasy world! Anything goes!" not when the individual nations are this fucking shallow and uninspired. It's no excuse. At that point you might as well draw squiggles on a paper and give the same excuse when anyone criticizes you.

>> No.25479549

>>25479488

But they're fun to play in.

>> No.25479574

>>25479549
That doesn't mean I have to like it.

>> No.25479709

>>25479488
nope, someone else posted it, and its a pretty good counter to the bullshit no interaction argument.

And your argument is fucking weird. So you want the world to be incredibly samey? Or is it that there isnt enough detail, which you get if you read inner sea guide? I just dont get what your problem is. So you think arabia shouldnt be in the same setting as pirates of the carribean and brother grimm even tho germany, iran and the caribbean exist in our world?

>> No.25479829

>>25479709
>So you want the world to be incredibly samey?
No, I want it to make fucking sense.

>Or is it that there isnt enough detail, which you get if you read inner sea guide?
I did read your Inner Sea Guide and wasn't impressed.

>So you think arabia shouldnt be in the same setting as pirates of the carribean and brother grimm even tho germany, iran and the caribbean exist in our world?
You've completely missed the point. That's like saying, "So you think the Battle of Marathon, the American Revolution and World War 4 can't all happen at the same time even though Greece, America and Mars all exist in our universe?"

>> No.25480054
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25480054

>>25479829
umm, no its not like saying that. Brothers Grimm takes place roughly the same time period as Arabia and Pirates. Your argument is stupid. Your sense of immersion is fucked up because these stories are placed in the wrong time periods in your head.

>> No.25480123

>>25479709
I think his issue was with the concurrency.
I, personally, simply remind myself that FREAKIN' WIZARDS and suspend my disbelief.

>> No.25480195

>>25480054
Well let's see here. Arabian Nights was compiled over the course of 300 or so years, beginning in the 8th century. Caribbean piracy took place between 1700 and 1750 if I recall, and first published a collection of tales in 1812. So you're just flat out wrong about that.

>> No.25480216

>>25480195
>and* first published a collection of tales in 1812
*The Brothers Grimm

>> No.25480274

>>25480195
except that the piracy in Golarion is not Caribbean its what was piracy that took place during the very late Arabian Nights time period. The tales of Brothers Grimm are based on Folk tales and Myths of the Germanic peoples during the 1300s. Your argument falls apart on closer inspection of the sources instead of relying on surface detail.

>> No.25480353
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25480353

>>25480274
Well then, if the tales of the Brothers Grimm are so old, why are they side by side with the American and French Revolutions, which are undoubtedly side by side with Arabian Nights?

The area marked on your map as "PIRATES" and which I'm referring to as being inspired by Pirates of the Caribbean is the setting of the Skull and Shackles adventure. And unless you mean to tell me pic related is inspired by 10th century Arabian piracy as opposed to 18th New World century piracy, you're full of shit.

>> No.25480392

>>25480274
>piracy that took place during the very late Arabian Nights time period
Barbary corsairs and the castration slave trade? Which didn't properly kick off until the 14th century?
No, it's fucking rum drinking Pirates of the Caribbean shit, bro.

>> No.25480393
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25480393

>>25480274
ARABIAN NIIIIIIIIIIIIGHTS

>> No.25480397

>>25480353
The problem isn't that things are taken from different periods in the real world. That could be cool. It'd be boring to have only what actually existed in the real world contamperaneous with each other in fantasy settings.

The problem is they don't really interact believably, and that not much thought has gone into why the different places are what they are.

>> No.25480400
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25480400

>>25480274
LIKE ARABIAN DAAAAAAAAYS

>> No.25480435

>>25480397
Right, that's my point. These circumstances came about in the real world as confluences of societal, technological and environmental changes and advancements. They didn't happen out of the blue. The gunpowder technology of Caribbean piracy would've drastically altered the society in which Arabian Nights took place, for example. You can't just pick a bunch of places and say they exist all together.

>> No.25480454

>>25480353
Actually, why the fuck am i trying to shoehorn fucking Brothers Grimm and Arabia and Pirates of the Caribbean onto Golarion when they are merely inspiration for the various areas and have no exact analogs.

I get it, your sense of immersion is broken because it is tied far to close to real world history, and you want your HIGH FANTASY tied explicitly to it. Differnet eras are simply and utterly not allowed to mix.

You can now claim victory for catching me in a fuckup because my memory can be faulty.

>> No.25480510

>>25480274
>Pirates are obviously generic 17-18th century new world pirates
>"No, they're actually 8th century Barbary corsairs guys"
When the New World pirates started setting up in Europe they completely replaced the already declining Barbary pirates, who had already replaced Moorish and Ottoman slave raiders with European outcasts who happened to operate on the Barbary coast, they just adopted the same name.

>> No.25480630

>>25480454
It's not that they're tied too closely, it's that they're too thematically disparate to have reasonably come about independently. Why does only one place in Golarion have guns? What are the ramifications of gunpowder on the other areas of Golarion?

Basically, the real world is the way it is because it built off itself. There's an order to things. Primitive man didn't come into the world wielding guns in one region and sticks in another. There are a bevy of reasons for the resurgence of democracy in the West, one of which was as a response to increasingly oppressive monarchies. It didn't just happen.

So why is Golarion different? Why does it just take ideas from across time and space without any idea of the historical context within which those ideas developed?

But since I can now claim victory: Suck my dick. Choke on it. Fucking burn in Hell fucking Paizodrone and take your shitty setting with you straight to Lucifer's puckered asshole. #wrekt #shotsfired

>> No.25480653

>>25480630
>Why does only one place in Golarion have guns? What are the ramifications of gunpowder on the other areas of Golarion?

I thought they all had guns, just not the really good ones.

>> No.25480659

>>25480630
classy

>> No.25480672

>>25480653
Read up on Alkenstein.

>> No.25480675

I know it's probably just me, but my problem with pathfinder is that you seem to need three feats and ten skillpoints to take a shit. Or you can do without, if you don't mind trying said shit with a -10.
Combat manouvers tend to be such that they are only really useful against specific type of enemies, but you need 1-3 feats to even use one of them efficiently. Same with everything you want to do, but you can focus on only one certain type of action-options.

>> No.25480694

>>25480675
What are you wasting your time on combat maneuvers for? You're supposed to do that shit with spells.

>> No.25480714

>>25479488
Yeah, not like the real world where India borders Nepal, which borders China. That would be craaazy!
It's not just history, it's contemporary to the game's story. Not only is it contemporary, but in some nations it's INTEGRAL. There is simply no Mendev without constant attacks from the Worldwound. The next Adventure Path to be released by Paizo is strictly about the war between the two. These aren't just ancient ideas that barely connect the places, they're current and important to the setting.
Shallow and uninspired? So a land of barbaric nomads who deal with aliens landing in their country by attacking them as often as possible and incorporating their alien technology into their barbaric warfare is shallow and uninspired?
Jesus, do you even hear yourself?
If you don't know anything about the setting, just shut the fuck up about it.

>> No.25480764

>>25480714
>Shallow and uninspired? So a land of barbaric nomads who deal with aliens landing in their country by attacking them as often as possible and incorporating their alien technology into their barbaric warfare is shallow and uninspired?

Yes.

It is metal, but it's really not some quality worldbuilding.

>> No.25480796

>>25480630
>Why does it just take ideas from across time and space without any idea of the historical context within which those ideas developed?

Holy shit. What's it like to live in your world and think the way you do?

>> No.25480821

>>25480764
>Metal
>not quality

Okay, if this is really your opinion, there's nothing I can say beyond this point. Enjoy whatever game you play, and I'll enjoy mine.

>> No.25480842

>>25479200
Ha.
I wrote that.

>> No.25480846

>>25480510
yeah, i fucked up. But having gone and read up on the wiki about gunpowder and Osirion (not!egypt), and Qadira (not!arabia), they have been going thru various wars and fighting. They are roughly where egypt and such were in early 17th century with MAGIC. The only place that really manufactures and has the blueprints for guns is the Manawaste countries and thats becasue they have no magic and had a few Leonardos and Da Vincis dream up sweet shit and do everything in their power to prevent others getting it. Gunpowder was invented in Vudra and has seen wide option pretty much everywhere there is civilization in Golarion. So yeah, they are connected.

The Numeria thing is 10,000 year old ancient alien ship being used by WIZARDS who barely understand this stuff trying to make a horrible dictatorship amongst barbarian tribes.

>> No.25480888

>>25480675
I feel your pain. You can always homebrew stuff to martial classes to make feat tax more bearable (Like, anything with 3/4 BAB or higher gets Power attack for free in my campaigns (and then the ranger complains he doesn't get deadly aim as wel, but whatever)), but anyway, all my feels.

>> No.25480900

Why are y'all arguing about the setting? It's serviceable enough to make running APs a breeze, shouldn't that be the goal?

>> No.25480914
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25480914

>>25476382
People bitching about it incessantly, mostly.
Play something else if you don't like it, you whiny fucks.

>> No.25480928

>>25480900
yeah, but some idiots hate settings that dont have MASSIVE DETAIL and IMMERSION.

>> No.25480929
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25480929

>>25480714
>>25480796
>being this mad that someone doesn't like your setting
My God, I don't normally see /tg/ get this bent out of shape. Is it really so important that he doesn't care for Golarion? Is it really so inconceivable?

>> No.25480953

>>25480928
Look I don't hate it. It's just a bad setting, and the thread asked for what was bad about PF.

>> No.25480987

>>25480929
it is when hes wrong about shit in it. all we are doing is correcting his bullshit about why its bad, if he still hates it, oh well.

>> No.25480988

>>25480714
I'm just appalled at a setting that has aliens fighting barbarians and that has absolutely no bearing on the world. A setting where uneven distributions of wealth and technology doesn't account for what happens two nations over.
Europe spread it's fucking wings all over the planet by the time it was doing muskets and heavy-duty sailing ships, but in this world noone gives a shit. It's like The History Of The World Lite Edition, where none of the little factions get squished or "unfairly" oppressed by obviously greater powers because it's not politically correct anymore.
Of course, this is usually solved by the players in my area starting huge wars that rage across the planet, but the setting by itself is silly even by fantasy standards.

>> No.25481025

>>25480928
I'm the guy who started this shitstorm when he said he didn't like Golarion. And it's not that it lacks detail (which it does) or immersion (which doesn't necessarily depend on setting). It's more that it's just a patchwork of the most stereotypical places to have an adventure regardless of whether that makes any sense at all.

>> No.25481048

I don't like Pathfinder because its claim to fame is "We fixed 3.5!" when the problem with 3.5 was inherently d20, and PF did nothing to fix d20

I love some of the things it did, yes, but the more I play other systems, the less and less I like d20

>> No.25481063

>>25480987
Just stop posting idiot, it's obvious he's going to argue any point you bring up so just fucking accept that and move on.

>he's wrong about a kitchen sink fantasy setting.
The entire idea of a kitchen sink setting is that you can NEVER be wrong.

>> No.25481075

>>25481025
>It's more that it's just a patchwork of the most stereotypical places to have an adventure regardless of whether that makes any sense at all.

This.

You're never supposed to look at the setting from a multi-national standpoint, and if you are the DM has more than enough liberties to make it more believable.

The setting is supposed to facilitate as many APs as possible with a large deal of variation between each one.

>> No.25481106

>>25479091
"Sorry Heroes, your Ulfen is in another castle!"

>> No.25481136

>>25480988
um those aliens are all dead with most of the tech being nearly 10k years old from a crashed ship, its wizards keeping all that sweet shit to themselves and ruling over a few barbarians, with them sometimes trying to conquer neighboring countries. And dont forget about the fucking magic and horrible monsters that make any attempts to do large scale shit nearly impossible.

>>25481025
yeah, im done with this.

>> No.25481164

>>25481106

And then you build up too much infamy and then Ameiko gets kidnapped and it just becomes one large "Where's Waldo" with some Ulfen guide and an Asian chick.

On the topic of Jade Regent though:

>Book 4
>Playing a guy with crazy blonde hair
>Everyone wants to kiss and touch him

The cooky, half-insane ruler was pretty neat as well.

>> No.25481239

>>25480928
But Golarion has too much detail and immersion is dependant on the group, not necessarily the setting.

The problem is Golarion is the kitchen sink setting to end all kitchen sink settings. Metaphorically, what the writers of the various places of Golarion have done is stick a shitload of kitchen sinks in one big room with the plans to weld them all together, but decided not to weld them all together to create a mega-sink. So the room of kitchen sinks remains a room of individual kitchen sinks.

>> No.25481302

>>25481239
>"So what's the deal with the sinks?"
>"We were going to weld them all together to make a mega-sink, sort of like an art project thing."
>"Why didn't you?"
>"DON'T YOU LIKE THE SINKS? ARE THEY NOT IMMERSIVE ENOUGH FOR YOU? ARE SINKS NOT CONNECTED IN SOME PLAUSIBLE WAY NOT GOOD ENOUGH?"

>> No.25481313

>>25481239
i shouldnt reply but did you even read>>25479200 , probably not.

I would like someone to point out a kitchen sink setting that is high magic and fantasy action and is supposedly coherent with plenty of detail so i can run all kinds of interesting campaigns in it. Oh, and it has to be able to accomodate a huge variety of races too.

>> No.25481360

>>25481313
>Oh, and it has to be able to accomodate a huge variety of races too.

Humans are the only race you need.

>> No.25481361

So, what settings are good? How would you change Golarion to make it a 'good' setting?

>> No.25481368

>>25481313
>The point
>Your head
What do you think the statement: "individual kitchen sinks" means?

>> No.25481382

>>25481313
Planescape.

>> No.25481410

>>25481382
Does it have an Arabians Nights type area for if my players decide to go desert tripping?

>> No.25481415

>>25481361
Don't fix what's beyond repair. Imagine you worked as a panel beater and someone delivered a fused heap of scrap metal that used to be a car and said "just buff it out a bit and it'll be fine".

>> No.25481434

>>25481410
Well you could go to both Athas and Zakhara, so yes.

>> No.25481448

>>25481415
Okay, that's fair.
Start from scratch then. How do I bring a world with every possibly biome and culture into existence while reconciling 'Magic' and 'Gods' and fantasy races?
Is Middle-Earth good? Is Warhammer?

>> No.25481452

>>25481434
So i have to add in extra settings to get these things instead of relying on one setting.

>> No.25481456

>>25481361
By making each place less heterogenous and more interconnected.

>> No.25481463

>>25481448

Warhammer actually does a pretty good job of it.

>> No.25481479

>>25481456

Ok, this helps the setting make more sense.

How does it improve APs and other such campaigns?

>> No.25481488

>>25481452
Yes, but on the plus side, it's not an awful setting.

So, you know. Trade-offs!

>> No.25481489

>>25481415
OH SO NOW THE SINKS ARE FUSED TOGETHER I THOUGHT YOU SAID THEY WEREN'T CONNECTED YOU ASSHOLE WHAT THE FUCK

>>25481361
Make a coherent and cohesive setting. Focus on one region and spread out from there. Your players don't need to have their every wish fulfilled here; they are living people tossed into a living world where not everything exists.

>>25481448
I'd say Middle-Earth at least has some restraint, though I'll hold my tongue because I know how /tg/ gets about Tolkien.

>> No.25481504

>>25481479
It doesn't do jack for the APs, but it would certainly help home-brewn campaigns infinitely. Rare is the campaign which stays in a single nation the whole twenty level span.

>> No.25481508

>>25476382

Well it's pretty much 3.5e copy pasta, and 3.5 is pretty shit.

Also, the default setting, Golarion, is probably the worst rpg setting ever published.

>> No.25481521

>>25481489
>I know how /tg/ gets about Tolkien.
...Excited? Aroused?

>> No.25481526

>>25481448
Become an expert writer and worldbuilder the likes of which the world has never seen.

>> No.25481539

>>25481463
Warhammer is shit. Its world reflects a 20th century understanding of a world that should be far more fractious and far less connected. Seriously you people who advocate the world being highly interconnected know shit about how the ancient world worked. It was could be intensely isolated with a fuckton of various countries and city states that had their own ideas about stuff, with only a few trade routes that connected everything. Add in Magic and Living Gods and this shit will get crazy and weird very fast.

>> No.25481548

>>25477793

> Clerics suck

Confirmed n00b.

>> No.25481549

>>25481504
>but it would certainly help home-brewn campaigns infinitely.

If you're at that point than it'd be incredibly easy to alter the interactions between the nations they'll be visiting.

Besides a lot of political fuckery is going to occur between level 1 and 20.

>> No.25481552

>>25481526
Stop me if you've heard this one before: "Ugh, I'm so tired of faux-Europe settings. I mean, it seems like everyone just rips off Tolkien, and I'm going to go ahead and blame this on Tolkien. He's a shitty writer and because his ideas are no longer original today, that means they are objectively shit."

>> No.25481556

>>25477592

>They do at my table

Fuck You

>> No.25481567

>>25481539
Warhammers world IS fractitious.

And we're not syaing that Golarion should be experiencing globalization. We're saying that its different locales shouldn't exist in some kind of hermetically sealed isolation.

>> No.25481568

>>25478192

um yes.

>> No.25481578

Caster edition and alignment having mechanical effects.

>> No.25481583

>>25481452
The only difference is that the settings are on different planes, essentially separate to everyone who isn't prepared. In Planescape, Sigil is the nexus, a melting pot of all the different settings mixing into each other.

In Golarion they're right fucking next to each other, it's more like an extremely ghettoised city.

>> No.25481605

>>25481567
except they arent you fucking retard.

>> No.25481614

>>25479241

> Golarion is a cool place

I can't think of any fantasy setting worse than Golarion.

>> No.25481617

>>25481549
If I'm at what point? The point where the vast majority of GMs are at? Then yes. Playing nothing but published adventures is not that common, I think.

But we're buying a setting, so I'd sort of expect not to have to basically make the setting myself.

>> No.25481633

>>25481605
No.

>> No.25481725

>>25481075

That basically means Golarion doesn't make any sense, and is instead several smaller campaign settings wlded together with the same cosmology.

I don't get why this is so hard. Eberron made this shit work.

>> No.25481743

>>25481633
Galt has always been a nation of free thinkers and radicals renowned for brilliant poets, artists and philosophers whose ideas shaped the politics of the whole of Avistan. Even when conquered by Cheliax during the Even-Tongued Conquest, which began in 4081 AR following Cheliax's declaration of independence during the Taldan war with Qadira, Galt still maintained this reputation and attracted free-thinkers to its renowned universities and rogues to its pristine woodlands.
Galt's tumultuous fall into mob anarchy began with the ascension of House Thrune in Cheliax in 4640 AR. With the blatant devilry and capricious cruelty of their new masters in Cheliax, dissent began to bubble up in Galt. One of the most elegant expressions of this was by the half-elf philosopher Hosetter, who wrote the scathing political essays Imperial Betrayal. These essays helped increase the dislike of Imperial Cheliax and they spread dissent across Andoran and even into the heartland of Cheliax itself. Then Darl Jubannich, the poet of Woodsedge, capitalised on this by publishing his own attack on Cheliax and the very concept of the divine right of kings called On Government. This created further hatred of the new government of Cheliax which quickly blossomed into all-out rebellion. Mobs tore down all the symbols of Chelaxian oppression and executed those they felt were Chelaxian sympathisers, predominantly the nobility.

cont... this is just Galt (not!france).

>> No.25481777

>>25481743
Soon Hosetter and Jubannich, along with other heroes of the revolution, formed the Revolutionary Council to rule the newly-independent nation of Galt. Little did they understand the beast they had created, for within five years the first Revolutionary Council had been overthrown by another set of bloodthirsty revolutionaries who wanted change. And so began the cycle of bloodshed and revolution after revolution that has lead to Galt's decline into a nation inhabited by mobs of paranoid, revolutionary fanatics.[2][3]
Since the death of Hosetter, there have been over a dozen governments in Galt. The current Revolutionary Council replaced the Cabinet of Skulls, and previous incarnations included the Cailean Council, the Common Council, the Eye of Law[4] and the Galtcreed Pact.[5]

This is just fucking Galt, ther is more for every fucking country in Golarion showing all kinds of interaction and connectivity you fucking retards

>> No.25481779

>>25476382
>Wizards and druids are still broken beyond repair. Clerics still require heavy restrictions, though IIRC they at least nerfed some of the cheesier builds.
>3.5e's skill system means fighters are still useless out of combat.
>lol monks
>Fighters still have to waste feats to get ANY options in combat outside of "I hit it with my sword". (This isn't quite as bad as 3.5e due to the extra feats, though this doesn't help low level fighters at all.)
>Golarion is a massive clusterfuck of a setting. I hope you like homebrewing because that's your only option with PF.

>> No.25481782

>>25481743
And then it spent forty fucking years living the Terror, and nobody around it gave a shit.

>> No.25481801

>>25481410

Layer 3 in Mithardir/Pelion is a gigantic desert full of colossal ruins that is perfect for desert tripping.

City of Brass and surrounding areas are technically deserts of ash rather than sand, but maintain the arabian nights theme with a deliciously exotic twist.

>> No.25481814

>>25477242
How is Runequest?

>> No.25481838

>>25481801

Oops, I mean layer 3 (Mithardir/Pelion) in *Arborea*

>> No.25481866

>>25481508
It's pretty bad but Forgotten Realms I think is a bit worse.

although i did like it post spellplague.

ya know i take it back. you're right. fuck Golarion.

>> No.25481878

Archetypes and permissive multiclassing. It's very easy to break the system using both or either.

>> No.25481897

>>25481801
And what if i dont want a planes hopping campaign, i just want to send them on a trip around a world. Not this shit about tripping around the planes, just one fucking world. The same world, so what settings do you have for this stuff? /tg/s go to for trying to say you can do all the things golarion does is to invoke a setting that requires massive extraplanar fucking magic, and other fucking settings welded onto it. Bravo for invoking the ulitmate kitchen sink bullshit. You literally have every kitchen sink welded together. how proud you must be.

>> No.25481922

>>25481878
Really? Those are some of my favorite parts about Pathfinder! There are so many possibilities! Any system can be broken if you put your mind to it, but this has a lot of exciting possibilities.

>>25481897
>being this mad that people don't like Golarion

>> No.25481934

>>25480796
>Holy shit. What's it like to live in your world and think the way you do?

Not that guy, but I see his point.

I like some elements of Golarion, but it's obvious that instead of really trying to create a coherent fantasy world, that they took a bunch of different settings (and their associated rules) and mashed them together without regard with how they fit into the world's larger story, themes, or concept.

It's a lot like free form RP.

>> No.25481955

>>25481897
>/tg/s go to for trying to say you can do all the things golarion does
Uh no, it's an example of a good, well-made kitchen sink, it isn't an example of something which does what Golarion does. Because it doesn't.

>> No.25481964

>>25481897
>Ask for something
>Receive it
>"NO I DIDN'T WANT THAT ONEEEE"

Fuck off you spoilt child.

>> No.25481987

>>25481897
>Get what you want.
>"Fuck off, it isn't what I want."

>> No.25482022

>>25481934
That's because Golarion doesn't have any themes or concepts. Its theme is "Let's appeal to everyone," and its concept is "Let's have the pirates hear, and the Muslims here, and the vikings here, and France here, and the aliens here and China here... Alright, print and ship!"

>> No.25482023

>>25481922

There's just so many archetypes, and players, being the autists that they are, will scour through them all and look for any way to make an overpowered character.

For example, the "master of all styles" Monk archetype allows you to use a style regardless of its requirements.

At level two you can be a monk with good AC who usually doesn't get hit, and when you do, you can deflect one attack against you per round thanks to your overpowered style feat (usually it requires level 8 along with other prereqs).

This basically means you'll be untouchable in single combat.

>> No.25482082

PROTIP: It's magic; Paizo ain't gotta explain shit.

>> No.25482085

>>25481361
>So, what settings are good? How would you change Golarion to make it a 'good' setting?

I say Eberron is a good setting. Every place has some kind of believable relationship with not only adjacent regions, but also distant ones. Organizations are not just restricted to a single city-state/country, but have long winding histories, bickering factions, and the like.

A lot of Eberron threads consist of, how would ABC react to XYZ events?

>> No.25482098
File: 407 KB, 250x250, yeah sure buddy fuck you .gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
25482098

>>25482082

>> No.25482141

>>25482098

It's true, though.

People tend to argue about how different countries would interact in a fantasy world in which wizards can delete the memories of their enemies.

As though the real world weren't crazy enough...

>> No.25482144

>>25482023
Yeah, that's a fair criticism and I see where you're coming from. I guess it really depends on who you're playing with. I like to come up with an idea for a character that may not necessarily fall into the traditional interpretation of a class, or may fall outside the bounds of a single class. In that case, I enjoy picking archetypes and class combinations that better describe my ideas.

Funny you should mention Master of Many Styles, I'm currently playing a Dragon Disciple monk/sorcerer with MoMS so that he can get Dragon Style and its associated feats more easily and pick up Snake Style later. I picked those because they sounded like what a Dragon Disciple would develop, not because they're particularly great when combined.

>> No.25482145

>>25482022
>That's because Golarion doesn't have any themes or concepts. Its theme is "Let's appeal to everyone," and its concept is "Let's have the pirates hear, and the Muslims here, and the vikings here, and France here, and the aliens here and China here... Alright, print and ship!"

Yeah, and like I said, it ends up coming off like some kind of free form RP.

You know, where one character is a half-oni cyborg and another is a harboiled psychic detective and another is a child of zeus.

>> No.25482200

>>25481382

Planescape is horrid.

>> No.25482213

>>25482200
Haha.

>> No.25482221

>>25482145
>You know, where one character is a half-oni cyborg and another is a harboiled psychic detective and another is a child of zeus.
God i hope that is supposed to be a negative argument toward the setting.

>> No.25482225

>>25481508

>doesn't know about Dark Sun.
>doesn't know about Forgotten Realms.
>doesn't know about Ravenloft.

This is what 4rries actually believe.

>> No.25482226
File: 944 KB, 245x180, ...What.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
25482226

>>25477793
>Clerics suck and can't do anything cool except heal
>3.5/Pathfinder

>> No.25482235

>>25482200

Not really. And it does a much better job of tying together disparate settings than Golarion does.

>> No.25482240

I think I need a break from you idiots here. Goddamn. I tire of you bullshit misogyny, your hateboner for golarion, your HFY wankfests, your shitty fucking quests cluttering every goddamn page, and especially your huge fucking nostalgiaboners for everyting older than 3e. God you make me so sick of being a nerd. More than likely I'll be back tomorrow but I'm just going to stop commenting.

>> No.25482256

>>25482240
I can't believe someone is this fucking butthurt.

>IF YOU DON'T LIKE GOLARION YOU'RE SEXIST!!

>> No.25482262

>>25482225
Are you seriously saying Dark Sun is worse than Golarion

And the fuck does 4rries have to do with it

>> No.25482271

>>25477793

Actually clerics are much better suited to buffing and debuffing in Pathfinder, and that's pretty much undisputed.

>> No.25482276

>>25482240
Are you okay?

Do you need to lie down?

>> No.25482283

>>25482240
>I tire of you bullshit misogyny
I like pathfinder but holy shit... Please take a trip so I can filter you.

>> No.25482284

>>25482256
no, thats for the entire board and the culture here, not for this particualr argument.

>> No.25482292

>>25482225
>talking shit about Dark Sun.

I hope everything bad in this world happens to you and only you.

>> No.25482310

>>25482221

It is. Golarian is just an unfocused smattering of everything. And then there's the planets. While I think it's awesome that there's a Princess of Mars-style setting, I don't think it's really that awesome that it explicitly exists in the same place as the more traditional knights and wizards world and that it's possible to interact between the two without any real rhyme or reason.

What is the deal with the planets anyway? Does this world actually have space, with galaxies and quasars and stuff? This is all in addition to the D&D planes type cosmology? Does Alpha Centauri's fifth planet have aliens that access the plane of Shadow or the Nine Hells?

>> No.25482315

>>25482284
>>>/tumblr/

>> No.25482328

>>25482284
You do know -4 STR is sarcastic right?

>> No.25482331

>>25482225

Except for the part where all three of those exist in 4e. Checkmate, atheists.

>> No.25482342

>>25482225

Forgotten Realms is indeed pretty bland and ALMOST as bad as Golarion. I say ALMOST because there's still more interacton and consistency between its different pieces than there is in Golarion.

>> No.25482347

>>25482331
There's a Ravenloft 4e supplement?

>> No.25482355

>>25482328
i wish it was but i keep seeing people trot it out as something they fully believe and im so tired of seeing it.

>> No.25482359

>>25482331

They all existed in 2E (and FR in 3E) as well.

>> No.25482360
File: 29 KB, 1102x100, And then Anon logged off tg to go masterbate to Golarion fanfic. .png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
25482360

>>25482240
I'm saving this.

>> No.25482363

>>25482235

No.

No, it doesn't.

Gunpowder-country-next-to-feudal-Japan is not nearly in the same realm of improbability as thousand-mile-tower-around-which-gravity-functions-but-not-like-real-gravity-so-there's-a-ring-shaped-city-around-it-that's-all-magicky-and-stuff.

>>25482262

What's there to do in Dark Sun? Die of thirst?

Not to mention that it's about the least believable setting there is. "Magic destorys teh natur!" So how come there are cities? Where do they get enough food to feed more than 20 people at a time? Come to think of it, why doesn't magic kill other eukaryotes that aren't plants? "ITS MAJICKS I ANT GOTTA EXPALN SHIT!"

>> No.25482373

>>25482355
Weren't you leaving? The door stuck? Let me help you pry it open.

>> No.25482377

>>25482363
>What's there to do in Dark Sun? Die of thirst?
Ha ha ha oh wow

>> No.25482380

>>25482373
>It would be my privilege

>> No.25482382

>>25482355
Well then fuck off to SomethingAwful or some other safe space where you can get banned for it?

Why come to /tg/ if you're just going to be mad?

>> No.25482391

>>25482360
yay, i contributed OC. i feel so much better now. and with that im off to play some vidya.

>> No.25482395

>>25482377

Ha ha ha controvert what I had to say.

Oh, wait! It's a published setting. Of course, it's terrible.

>> No.25482399

>>25482347
There's a whole fucking boardgame!

>> No.25482416

>>25482399
Oh you meant that. Duh, of course.

>> No.25482426

>>25482342
I liked the latest Neverwinter setting book.
the best thing 4e did with the setting was getting all those level 20+ characters to fuck off to let your characters who are just starting to have a chance.

>> No.25482433

>>25482342

That's true, but the parts of Forgotten Realms that aren't copypasta of real-world civilizations are essentially identical. There was a cursory effort to make them different and interesting, but it didn't amount to much more than "the feudal lords are elves here, and they hate the dwarf feudal lords over there."

>> No.25482461

>>25482395
Is this English?

>> No.25482512

>>25482363
>Gunpowder-country-next-to-feudal-Japan is not nearly in the same realm of improbability as thousand-mile-tower-around-which-gravity-functions-but-not-like-real-gravity-so-there's-a-ring-shaped-city-around-it-that's-all-magicky-and-stuff.

Shit like thousand mile towers with all kinds of crazy magic shit happens in Golarion as well. It has a bunch of gimmicky planes in addition to the main gimmicky world, and its gimmicky planets.

>>What's there to do in Dark Sun? Die of thirst?

Dark Sun is very clearly in the genre of dying earth fantasy. Aesthetically, it combines that with elements of the ancient Near East. All of the city-states have a common history, have relationships- not just with their neighbors- but distant places and peoples.

>>"Magic destorys teh natur!" So how come there are cities?

Because cities are the places where arcane magic use is most heavily restricted.

>>Where do they get enough food to feed more than 20 people at a time?

City-states actually have fields that are irrigated and worked by laborers. Part of why people flock to the city-states.

>>Come to think of it, why doesn't magic kill other eukaryotes that aren't plants?

Arcane magic kills all life and blights the earth, not just plants. It can also harm and even kill people.

And the crazy thing is that Golarion has a Dying Earth/Dark Sun style setting on a different planet.

>> No.25482519

>>25482461

I'm pretty sure it is, in fact, English. Not sure what your point is, but I'm interested to hear of all the fantastic published settings you know about.

>> No.25482525

>>25482363

> Golarion fan
> Hating on Dark Sun

Confirmed newfag with shit taste.

>> No.25482556

>>25482512
>And the crazy thing is that Golarion has a Dying Earth/Dark Sun style setting on a different planet.
Well that should be no surprise at all considering in one of the adventure paths you travel to Russia. On Earth. In the 1900s.

>> No.25482562

>>25482347
The entirety of Ravenloft exists within the Shadowfell and is a region that The Raven Queen has no control over.

>> No.25482592

>>25482519

Hyborian Age and Nehwon are two of the greatest settings in the fantasy genre, and have been officially published as rpg settings. Zothique also has an unofficial setting book.

Xoth, the setting used by Blade of the Iron Throne is also excellent.

>> No.25482594

>>25482512

>Golarion
>gimmicky planes

What's your point? Are you suggesting Planescape is any different? Or, for that matter, Forgotten Realms? Greyhawk?

>Dark Sun
>based on the ancient Near East

As someone who has a graduate degree in ancient history from one of the best universities in the world, I call bullshit. Regardless of whether Dark Sun is intended to be based on the ancient near east, it isn't.

Essentially all you've said is that Golarion is just as unbelievable as the other settings in question. My point was that published settings are ridiculous, and that singling out Golarion as the worst of the group is pointless, especially as settings like Dark Sun are patently

>> No.25482621

>>25482594
>As someone who has a graduate degree in ancient history from one of the best universities in the world,
and my dad works for nintendo

>> No.25482627

>>25482594

> Dark Sun isn't based on the ancient near east!

It's called fantasy, faggot. They didn't copy-paste the ancient near east. Some elements have been lifted from various cultures.

>> No.25482629

>>25482363

Hey man, that's a pretty good troll, and quite successful too. I'll give you a 8/10. Would've given higher, but hating on Planescape/Dark Sun is a pretty easy troll button for /tg/ so you aren't really being all that novel or creative.

Unless you aren't trolling. Then I feel kinda sorry for you.

>> No.25482630

>>25482594 [cont.]

ridiculous from top to bottom. Making the argument that certain kitchen-sink settings published by people without any understanding of history or anthropology are better than others is pointless.

>> No.25482658

>>25482621

No way my friends' dads all work for Nintendo and Sony too! They told me Playstation 12 is already in the works and my friends already have secret prototypes!

>> No.25482663

>>25482594

> as someone who has a

Welp, that really blew the cover. I can't agree with the other dude: 6/10 max after that.

>> No.25482666

>>25482594
As someone with four PhDs from various Ivy League and Oxbridge universities in Saying Stuff on the Internet, I can with confidence claim that you don't know what you're talking about.

>> No.25482667

>>25482594
>>What's your point? Are you suggesting Planescape is any different? Or, for that matter, Forgotten Realms? Greyhawk?


Planescape is, in that one of the driving points of the game is the radically divergent nature of perception/perspective/belief, and how it can shape things and themes such as every situation has multiple sides to it, balance, and mystery. The wildly divergent factions, worlds, and inhabitants work perfectly with Planescape's themes and concepts.

But as far as Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, and their ilk go, yeah. Golarion is a lot like them, and they're all pretty shitty settings.

>> No.25482681

>>25482667
>But as far as Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, and their ilk go, yeah. Golarion is a lot like them, and they're all pretty shitty settings.

My nigga.

>> No.25482684

>>25482592

I have to confess I'm not familiar with most of those, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Hyborian Age, however, is pretty generic copypasta.

>> No.25482694

>>25482658

Dude that's bullshit. I happen to have a graduate degree in playstation development and I can tell you right now you're 100% bullshitting. Playstation 5 is barely in the development cycle.

>implying you should play anything but final fantasy 7 on repeat anyway.

>> No.25482703

>>25482667

>Planescape is, in that one of the driving points of the game is the radically divergent nature of perception/perspective/belief, and how it can shape things and themes such as every situation has multiple sides to it, balance, and mystery. The wildly divergent factions, worlds, and inhabitants work perfectly with Planescape's themes and concepts.

So it's an RPG?

>> No.25482710

>>25482684

> Hyborian Age, however, is pretty generic copypasta.

Either you're trolling, or you're a shit tier pleb.

>> No.25482716

>>25482594
>As someone who has a graduate degree in ancient history from one of the best universities in the world, I call bullshit.

So a setting in an arid/semi-arid region where the dominant powers are city-states led by god-kings and their priesthoods from atop their massive ziggurauts is taking influence from what period/region/culture, exactly?

>> No.25482718

>>25482667
hey man, don't drag Greyhawk into this.

that old guy never hurt nobody!

>> No.25482738

>>25482716
Mesoamerica. I have travelled in time and personally born witness to the Mayan and Aztec civilizations at their peaks, so I know what I am talking about.

>> No.25482749

>>25482621
>>25482629
>>25482663
>>25482666

Doubt me if you want to, but I didn't see much that reminded me of anything historical beyond the most broadly interpreted transcription of Sumerian city-states in Dark Sun.

And yes; the rest of my criticisms of the setting stand.

>> No.25482752

>>25482738
Go to bed Bill.
and give Rufus back the phone booth.

>> No.25482753
File: 29 KB, 640x400, agent smith.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
25482753

>>25482684

> I have to confess I'm not familiar with most of those

What? Do you only read shit like Twilight and Drizzt?

> Hyborian Age, however, is pretty generic copypasta.

Troll detected.

>> No.25482766

>>25482718
Any setting with a Grand Duchy of Geoff is too innocent to spit on.

>> No.25482770

>>25482716

It's generic European fantasy, duh!

>> No.25482771

>>25482684

Hyborian Age is all upfront a bout the fact that it was based on mythical versions of real world places. Even then, there is A LOT of interaction between the various regions and cultures and lots of overall history.

>> No.25482777

>>25482749

Dude, I happen to have a graduate degree in troll detection from one of the best internet universities in the world. I don't doubt your intentions: they're pretty crystal clear, really. Well, emerald green I guess.

>> No.25482784

>>25482749
The person you responded specifically said it was aesthetically based on the Near East. I don't see how you can doubt that.

>> No.25482797

>>25482753

>Troll detected

So you're suggesting Hyborian Age isn't just an agglomeration of every-and-any pre-Indo-European myth Howard thought was cool with the most-well-known Western pre-Christian mythologies?

Do tell.

>> No.25482800

>>25482703
>>So it's an RPG?

Yes. Which has nothing to do with what was said, as not all RPGs do what Planescape does.

>> No.25482803

>>25482594

>goes to one of the best universities in the world

>does a graduate degree in ancient history

Fuck me, that's the face of /tg/ right there I guess.

>> No.25482809

>>25482797
That's exactly what it is. That doesn't make it bad.

>> No.25482827

>>25482803
Nigger if I could I'd totally do Classics in Cambridge.

Follow your dreams.

>> No.25482830

>>25482703

More like Mage the Ascention rip-off

Planescape was actually pretty awesome but you could see they were pulling alot of ideas from competitors [The obnoxious Shadowrun style slang written Iin even non-fluff sections of PS books stands out] probably on order of the obnoxious bitch running the company at the time

>> No.25482833
File: 13 KB, 320x319, GTFO.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
25482833

>>25482684

> Hyborian Age, however, is pretty generic copypasta.

The Hyborian Age is a fictional time-period on Earth you retard. Obviously there are going to be similarities to real-world cultures.

>> No.25482837

>>25482738

The comparison is not lost on Dark Sun. In addition to the city-states of Tyr and Urik, there's Draj, which is clearly Meso-American influenced. And the Halfling tribes of the Forest Ridge.

So yeah, they thought of that too.

>> No.25482842

>>25482784

>aesthetically

I hope you realize how broadly that word can be interpreted.

I'm out; too much booze, and too few rational arguments here.

>> No.25482874

>>25482842
Here I thought we were discussing specifics, not the broad strokes of settings, boiling thousands of pages down to a few sentences.

Thanks, dude, you opened my mind.

>> No.25482887

>>25482874

>thousands of pages

wat

>> No.25482897

>>25482684
>Hyborian Age, however, is pretty generic copypasta.

Holy shit, how can someone's taste be this shit?

>> No.25482904

>>25482797
>So you're suggesting Hyborian Age isn't just an agglomeration of every-and-any pre-Indo-European myth Howard thought was cool with the most-well-known Western pre-Christian mythologies?

That's exactly what it was. And because he had an idea of what he was doing, the world came out with some semblence of consistency.

Compare to Golarian where every-and-any pre-Indo-European and Pre-Christian myth gets combined with every non-Indo European and post-Christian myth... and Alien spacecraft, and Hellraiser, and Pirrates of the Carribean, and Kamen Rider.

>> No.25482921

>>25482887
Most settings manage to build up that amount with supplements.

>> No.25482968

>>25482874
>>Here I thought we were discussing specifics, not the broad strokes of settings, boiling thousands of pages down to a few sentences.

It's an internet message board. Due to the limitations of the medium, we don't have enough time or space to present thousands of page of text and specifics in their original and full context- complete with commentary.

We have to boil all that information down to a few sentence.

If you want more, I suggest you start reading the 2E Dark Sun books.

>> No.25482976

The shittiest part is how combat oriented games tend to be. Stop perpetuating that all rpgs need to be murderhobo fests.

>> No.25483095

>>25482976
Pathfinder is for when you want to murderhobo. It's what it's meant to be. Complaining it is what it wants to be is kind of silly.

>> No.25483138

>>25482897

Newfags like that guy just read their shitty Drizzt and Pathfinder novels and think that's good fantasy.

>> No.25483149

>>25483095
>Pathfinder is for when you want to murderhobo

Based on what? How do the setting rules and fluff uniquely support this to a greater degree than other settings?

>> No.25483157

>>25482976
75% of each of my sessions are my players roleplaying, or trying to figure out what to do next. Usually we do one or two actual combat encounters per session, unless they're exploring a dungeon or something.

Currently, they've been tasked with freeing a group of revolutionaries who've been captured by the Dusk Queen's knights. They can approach this anyway they want, but if they do not, the knights will use the captured revolutionaries as cannon fodder to help drive out a cult worshiping a god of Plague and Pestilence.

So they're actually faced with a couple issues. Whether to help deal with the Cult, let the knights use the Revolutionaries as cannon fodder, save them by assaulting head on, or sneaking into the dungeons and getting them out. Each has it's ramifications, and of course, they could probably come up with something I didn't even anticipate, which is probably what's gonna happen.

>> No.25483192
File: 40 KB, 460x643, ilya.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
25483192

>>25476382
The shittiest part of Pathfinder is when the entire party is out-done at everything by a short russian man playing a synthesist summoner as a magical girl who is secretly a little elf boy not a little elf girl who steals the final boss and flies off into the sunset leaving everyone thinking "What the fuck just happened."

>> No.25483195

>>25483149
By focusing on it? I'm not saying it does a particularly good job out of it, just that it's the intention.

>> No.25483229

>>25483149

Dungeons, dungeons everywhere. The rules require X encounters per day to remain even remotely balanced. This is very wierd for non-murderhobo fantasy.

There's no denying that Pathfinder is firmly set in the murderhobo genre.

>> No.25483235

>>25483192
Wasn't Colette Filipino?

>> No.25483242
File: 56 KB, 571x570, cool story bro.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
25483242

>>25483157

>> No.25483321

>>25483242
Back to /b/ with you

>> No.25483374
File: 31 KB, 638x638, u wot m8.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
25483374

>>25483235
Who's Collete?

>> No.25483412

>>25483229
>>Dungeons, dungeons everywhere. The rules require X encounters per day to remain even remotely balanced. This is very wierd for non-murderhobo fantasy.

Really? X encounters per day is a consequence of the 3E system, not the Golarion world. By that criteria, all D&D settings, and most fantasy games in general (since many use some variance of the d20 rules) are explictly Murder Hobo setting.

And Dungeons/Ruins everywhere is as generic as generic fantasy gets. If anything, not having dungeons everywhere would be a unique experience worthy of being called out.

Does Golarion do anything unique? When the DM says, "We're going to play in Golarian," why should I be excited?

>> No.25483415
File: 16 KB, 251x255, shitty thumb.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
25483415

>>25483321
>Posts good old meme from ancienfagot days
> >>>/b/

>> No.25483456

>>25483412

> All D&D settings, and most fantasy games in general (since many use some variance of the d20 rules) are explictly Murder Hobo setting.

D&D is the original murderhobo game.

>> No.25483467

>>25483412
>If anything, not having dungeons everywhere would be a unique experience worthy of being called out.

...Not really no.

>> No.25483496

>>25483456

So Pathfinder isn't "for when you want to murderhobo". D&D (and its derivitives) is for when you want to be a murderhobo.

>> No.25483531

>>25483467

Not many fantasy settings can boast that. How many do you know with a general lack of dungeons, ruins, or other old places full of monsters and treasure for players to explore and plunger?

>> No.25483559

>>25483412

> Does Golarion do anything unique? When the DM says, "We're going to play in Golarian," why should I be excited?

You should be excited that you can find another group and not waste your time with a DM who obviously has shit taste.

>> No.25483561

>>25483496
But PF is a D&D derivative.

It's for murderhobos.

It's why it exists.

>> No.25483581

>>25483496

> So Pathfinder isn't "for when you want to murderhobo". D&D (and its derivitives) is for when you want to be a murderhobo.

Pathfinder is literally copy-pasted D&D 3.5, retard.

>> No.25483614

>>25483581
No one has said that it wasn't.

>> No.25483655

>>25483614

You fail at reading comprehension. The quote is right there.

>> No.25483666

>>25483614
He did.

>> No.25483674

>>25483561
>>25483581

The original statement was, "Pathfinder is for when you want to be a murder-hobo".

That's like saying, the "M-16A1 is for when you want to shoot someone". Or, "the Nissan Maxima 2005 is for when you want to drive somewhere."

Pointing out the murder-hobo nature of Pathfinder when it is basically a derivative of Murder-Hobo:The Game seems kind of redundant, doesn't it?

>> No.25483692

>>25483674
Holy shity ou are retarded

>> No.25483700

>>25483674

Autist detected.

>> No.25483727

>>25483692

How so?

>> No.25483752

>>25483727
>Pathfinder is for murderhobos
>That's false, because the game Pathfinder is a variant of is for murderhobos

>> No.25483793

>>25483752

Not that it's false. It's merely a redundant statement that doesn't really help explain to anybody anything about Pathfinder itself.

Why defend such a useless and uninformative statement?

>> No.25483819

>>25483793
It does say something about Pathfinder. Just because it's true about other things it doesn't fucking stop being true about Pathfinder.,

PF doesn't change enough for anything else to be true about it. It's just a tiny polish fo 3.5 which changes little.

>> No.25483828
File: 44 KB, 446x400, girllol.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
25483828

>>25476407
>he thinks Pathfinder caters to casters only

>> No.25483851

>>25476392
Pretty much this.

>> No.25483891

>>25483819

Which had been pointed out earlier. In fact, the poster specifically responded to a post about how RPGs in general were all about combat by stating that Pathfinder was a game about violence. As if this had ever been called into question. I suppose it's my fault for figuring that the poster was trying to make some greater point and not just making a redundant statement.

Sorry for the derailment.

>> No.25483925

The people who play it.

>> No.25483935

>>25483828

Pathfinder made non-casters even shittier than 3.5e.

At least in 3.5e there's Tome of Battle.

>> No.25483960

>>25480929
PDF will defend their game at any cost.

>> No.25483972

>>25483935
b-but my combat maneuvers and weakened SoDs

>> No.25483999

>>25482085
>A lot of Eberron threads consist of, how would ABC react to XYZ events?
I tried to ask this in a PF thread earlier and people just told me to fuck off and read one of the books. Fuck playing PF with anyone from /tg/.

>> No.25484074

>>25483999

> Expecting intelligence from Pathfags

Pathfinder is marketed towards gullible fanboys who are stupid enough to buy the same set of rules for the third fucking time. It's not even an improvement of 3.5e.

>> No.25484634

>>25483999
Are you the dude we said to read the wiki, and then never came back to ask a specific question about a part of the world you wanted answered. Because I was monitoring that page and nobody asked anything.

>> No.25484781

>>25483935

Clearly you've never played a Monk in 3.5

>> No.25484893

>>25484781

To be fair nobody did

>> No.25484910

>>25484893
I... I wanted to be the motherfucking Flash ;_;

>> No.25484999
File: 49 KB, 246x319, Kingofring.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
25484999

>>25476382
The shittiest part of pathfinder is NOT having the King of the Ring supplement.

Make and play ANY sort of wrestler you can think of from luchidor to sumo.

And since I've already paid money for it, I've figured I'd share it with my friends here at /tg/

http://rapidshare.com/files/2842878734/PZOPDFLRGKOTRE%20-%20Copy.pdf

>> No.25485261

>>25477371
This is quite easy you know, just mix two levels of Monks with the master of many styles archetypes and then add levels of fighter with the brawler archetype and you go a kickass damage dealer

>> No.25485320

The trolls who hate on it to be edgy.

>> No.25485542
File: 170 KB, 1024x583, 1305210488013.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
25485542

>>25484999
Thanks, friend.

>> No.25488570

>>25485261
It's a real headache to do it in the most optimal way though.

The feat retraining Fighters get helps but also complicates matters. As it stands, I think the best way is to be human, take 3 levels of brawler fighter, take Unarmed as a bonus feat, take all panther styles, then take a level in monk, then fighter again and retrain the unarmed strike you took at first level and get two crane style feats...ARGH my head is starting to hurt!

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