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25322165 No.25322165 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]


Are all Pathfinder fans this deluded? This guy actually thinks that Golarion is a good setting, and goes as far as to compare it to the setting of the Witcher series.

Please tell me most Pathfinder fans don't actually play in this shitty setting...

>> No.25322320

Far from the worst I've seen as far as PF players go.

>> No.25322342

>inb4 pf players start claiming Golarion is not as bad as people say

>> No.25322355

My opinion > Your opinion

>> No.25322358

It is an excuse of a setting. I just create my own.

>> No.25322510

Did you SERIOUSLY start a new thread, just to edition-war?

>> No.25322579
File: 28 KB, 380x247, look of disapproval.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


Are you the guy who claimed Golarion was as good as the Witcher setting?

>> No.25322673

No. I was.

>> No.25322687
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>> No.25322717

I don't understand. Are your picture is supposed to change anything?

>> No.25322725

Sorry. *is*

>> No.25322786
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So what now? Are you going to cry all over /tg/ just because someone has different opinion than yours and is able to support it with substantial arguments?

>> No.25322818


Yeah Golarion is pretty bad. I can't think of a worse rpg setting atm.

>> No.25322835


Does Twilight have an rpg setting? Still, it would be close...

>> No.25322887


Herp Derp

>> No.25322905
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>> No.25322925
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Butthurt Paizo fanboy?

>> No.25322927

I quite like it, think a lot can be done with it, and am greatly entertained by some of the setting writing they have. I respect your right to disagree, but find your claims unconvincing.


>> No.25322957

I don't particularly like Golarion as written by Paizo, but I do think it's salvageable. Just build on the fluff you think works, and ignore what doesn't so you can replace that with your own ideas. Same for any pre-made setting.

>> No.25322959

>substantial arguments

Excuse me, what?

>> No.25322994

>People like things that I don't like.

Oh you poor thing. Is there anything I can do to help?

>> No.25323003

Not that it makes it good, but the sheer craziness does make it spiritually close to early D&D modules.

>> No.25323005
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ITT: "I can't stand people liking what i don't, therefore fanboys".

Too bad it was done 1000s of times already with oh, so better style...

>> No.25323007

I've yet to see anyone speak to its strengths or weaknesses. Whats the deal?

>> No.25323021

>anything but a bullshit kitchen sink setting

whatever, cunt. if i wanted kitchen sink trash i would have gone and gotten myself a forgotten realms sourcebook.

>> No.25323031

At least they're not as bad as the PF fans who think that any single substantial problem from 3.5 was fixed.

>> No.25323033

> Excuse me, what?
It's called "greentext". Happens to the best of people around here. Don't be afraid.

>> No.25323034

Everything in dragon lance

>> No.25323042

It's pretty shit because they want it to do two different things. They want to have varied settings and areas, to provide a ton of different places to adventure, and also want to have a well mapped world to place these pieces on. This falls apart, however, because none of these settings make sense in context with each other, and just feel like they are thrown together "just 'cause".

>> No.25323047
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I played oWoD and D&D for 3 years before finding Pathfinder 2 years ago, and even then we always ran custom campaigns that loosely affected the setting. In a very recent trend, a few friends and I actually picked up the campaign modules instead of making our own. Legacy of Fire was the worst thing to ever come out of Satan's asshole, while Kingmaker is bro-central.

All in all, they could have done worse. It's like living in genera-fantasy but having acceptable fluff available if you play long enough. Sadly I understand most players, now that a few friends and I are out of college we can actually have stable schedules and play for longer than 1 semester. If you're still playing with people who have their schedules change all the time or have difficulty sticking to campaigns, Pathfinder can seem pretty boring.

All in all, it's a good setting for one-shots and long campaigns, but most campaigns are the middle ground where it just doesn't shine.

>Captcha: oiavanc fixed

Thanks, Oiavanc.

>> No.25323049

Calling people names doesn't make you right. Only childish and immature. G'day to you.

>> No.25323059


I'm not a big fan of Eberron, but it's much more original and has a coherent theme.

Golarion is just a patchwork mess of random nations and cultures stitched together with no thought towards how they interact and influence each other. You have archaic cultures living right next to a renaissance era not-France where people dress in colonial clothing. Guns exist, but for some reason only in one region. On top of that, the nations have alignments (why?) and the lore is uninspiring and derivative.

>> No.25323080

I can say similar things about Pathfinder. Does it change anything?

>> No.25323101


>> No.25323102


At least Forgotten Realms has charm and has spawned some exciting rpgs like Baldur's Gate.

Golarion is a Forgotten Realms wannabe that takes all the bad things from the setting, and brings nothing interesting or good to the table.

>> No.25323104

It's basically faerun in that it tries to throw in every single possible setting idea you could want - not-asia, not-egypt, not-america, but doesn't do any of them particularly well, or even in a way that makes it stand out from its competition. None of the nations seem to interact with each other, they're all in their own little bubbles, conveniently modular for you to have a campaign in.

Then you get all this bullshit about barbarians who fight fighting robots and cthulhu-mythos monstrosities. It's just all over the place. It wants to do everything and ends up doing everything sub-par.

>> No.25323111


Its a kitchen sink setting, a world that really wouldn't make sense. Each country is a cliche like "Transylvania Vampire country", "Magitech Country", "French Revolution Country", "Pirates country" ect ect. Each one can be its own campaign and individually they are great for adventures. Combine them all into one world and its a bit dumb.

Varisia is awesome and by far the most fleshed out place though.

>> No.25323124

I can't think of anyone who loves pathfinder setting. People play pathfinder because it plays better than other games in their own settings.

>> No.25323131
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>Golarion is a Forgotten Realms wannabe that takes all the bad things from the setting, and brings nothing interesting or good to the table.

And probably because of that /tg/'s most anticipated sourcebook lately was...

>> No.25323135
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>> No.25323172


>> No.25323174

>most anticipated sourcebook
>a couple of 20 post threads asking whether it was scanned or not
>ignores the constantly active Exalted threads for the past two weeks

>> No.25323176
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Which, funny enough, turned out to be an unironic and completely serious version of this. Only for Pathfinder.

>> No.25323191

Pffft, enjoying those "rules for downtime" they gave your characters?

>> No.25323210
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Much worse settings exist, and golaion/paizo in general is full of good, but disparate, ideas. People who like it don't have a huge hard-on for Starfall of the death of aroden or Molthrune or Taldor or the cheliax/andoran war. No one gives a shit.

Rpg settings don't have to be a big ole historical novel like the silmarillion. Golarion CONTAINS tons of good shit.

A better discussion would be us saying what we most like in the setting, and what's the lamest.

I don't know much about the Witcher's setting, but what I've seen strikes me as standard edgy dark fantasy with bitch'n witchalock blades. I hope I'm wrong.

Let's talk about Kaer Maga and the APs and cheliax and Laori Vaus and Ustalav

>> No.25323237

>Rpg settings don't have to be a big ole historical novel like the silmarillion.

No, but it helps when the entire setting isn't just self-contained areas of adventure themes. It's not a world so much as a collection of possible adventure themes pretending to be a world.

>> No.25323250

>all i play is call of Cthulhu
>it's set in the real world with interesting lore
>can't argue about settings
>mfw i have no face

>> No.25323260

> Implying that's something bad.

>> No.25323276

Not exactly. I'm using what i find interesting and ditching what i don't need.

>> No.25323279
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No! I am extremely disappointed Ultimate Campaign forgot to include a table to determine the consistency of my shit based on what food I ate the night before! How else am I supposed to determine what my morning dump is like and what dice I should roll to determine how long it takes to force it out and wipe my ass?

>> No.25323283

who the hell goes around the whole fucking setting? It's just a good springboard for adventures

>> No.25323287

> turned out
Not very much. Didn't see majority of people complaining about it. Mhhhhhhhm.

>> No.25323289

I am, actually, since it's being sold as a cohesive setting, when it's just dumb as a cohesive setting. It's like the laziest worldbuilding ever.

>> No.25323300

You're not frequently coming to /tg/ right?

>> No.25323313

oh wow adding optional rules is soooo stupid
go read GURPS asshat

>> No.25323316

You can argue about how to play it.

There's the people who play it like "LOL YOU GO INSAEN BECAUSE YOU LOOK AT FUNNY STATUE" and there's the ones that play it like it's meant to be played - humans struggling for survival in the bleakest of situations, amongst cosmic horrors they don't understand, all for one under the ties that bind.

>> No.25323326


They could have at least come up with some time-travelling or world-hopping excuse for jumping between these random adventure-themed worlds.

Instead they thought "Hurr durr let's stitch these random areas into a single map!"

>> No.25323329

Paizo fans are paizo fans because of the Adventure Paths and books like Classic Monsters Revisited. You just described exactly what they want out of a campaign setting, and what paizo needed.

>> No.25323339

>I am, actually,
Then you're not very good, experienced DM. Sorry.

>> No.25323344

Not that guy, but I've only seen people talking about Ultimate Campaign twice.

>> No.25323363

I envy you then.

>> No.25323369

>Worldbuilding in a paid product is shit

Here's a pro tip: Experienced DMs shouldn't be using pre-made settings in the first place, friendo.

>> No.25323375
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> Implying good experienced DMs only play patchwork kitchen sink settings that don't make any sense.

Uhh have you ever played an rpg other than Pathfinder?

>> No.25323391


But I love the Hyborian Age :(

>> No.25323415


I've seen way more Exalted threads than scan requests for Ultimate Campaign...

>> No.25323416

I don't see what the problem with all pre-made settings are. But making a setting really isn't that hard.

>> No.25323433

>You HAVE to like this to be a good DM!
>Because REASONS!

You're the same guy who thought that printed material completely decided how new players play the game right? I guess it figures that you'd think everything is bad expect your pet system. Seriously, bro, it's a shitty setting as a setting. It doesn't work as a cohesive whole. Whether you can use it as a DM or not is completely tangent to the conversation.

>> No.25323442

>But making a setting really isn't that hard.
Then what's Golarion's excuse?

>> No.25323463


Yeah! Ultimate Campaign also forgot to include a table to determine how many times I fart in a day! This is critical information for the vast majority of campaigns.

>> No.25323486


Maybe because Paizo has no talent and is only capable of copy pasting the work of others?

>> No.25323515
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People with no perspective will often mistakenly believe that the things they enjoy presently are as good as things can get.

It's for that same reason that people even bother to play Pathfinder when other systems exist that can do what Pathfinder does without being the same kludgy mess of half-assed mechanics and game design that is 3.5.

If they truly love RPGs, they will explore the wider world of systems and settings and come to understand that D&D is not the be-all-end-all of gaming, and in time, they will come to understand how other systems can be so deeply, satisfyingly fulfilling to read, play, and run.

Until then, they're going to keep on thinking that 40k is the best miniature wargame, that Magic the Gathering is a good card game, and that Pathfinder and Golarion aresn't babby's first shitty everythingandthekitchensink RPG.

>> No.25323530

Why you all bitching about Ultimate Campaign?
Have you even read it?
Stories feats are pretty cool and most of the stuff they put in is situational or optional.

>> No.25323544
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Golarion is a good setting
For Pathfinder society, and those that are willing to work at it.

Golarion works best for PFS, you have a set setting, important peoples of countries, yadda yadda in other words EVERYONE will be on the same page universal knowledge of the world wise. And with the kitchen sink setup for the world they can come up with some interesting adventures. It's not the greatest setting in the world, but it does have an edge in that it has something for everyone at some point.

As for working at it, I'm kinda having fun tieing everything together, guessing how societies of Golarion interact with each other and how my players can affect it in the future (i'm the guy that did Kobold-tron if anyone remembers that)

>> No.25323555
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>> No.25323557


> Damn I guess I can't become king because I forgot to take the right story feat!

>> No.25323568

Because for every cool thing they presented they shoved two scoops of shit in my mouth.

>> No.25323577

Fine then. What is bad about this setting, which is not also automatically bad about ALL RPG SETTINGS?

I'm genuinely curious. How does one make a bad setting?

>> No.25323588

No you can it's just theirs feats tied to it that makes it more rewarding.
Looks like someone can't read or comprehend

>> No.25323615

See: the entire thread

>> No.25323624

Oh wow optional rules and fleshing races out.
Totally shitty
And can we drop the pretense that Pathfinder can even be compared to 3.5 or 4th?
It's way better than any edition of DnD

>> No.25323632

It's...okay for generating random characters, but not much else. Downtime gives you a really weird way of just "roll d20, you get X gold" or "X gold to build a business". The mass combat system looks grindy and slow, while their kingdom system is still just "get bonuses, roll d20". There's not much to it, and I feel bad for those who paid for it.

>> No.25323638


Paizo had good marketing. They knew their target audience (butthurt 3aboos) and how to market to them. They actually convinced a lot of 3aboos to buy the same set of books for the third time (3e, 3.5, Pathfinder).

>> No.25323657

>And can we drop the pretense that Pathfinder can even be compared to 3.5 or 4th?
>It's way better than any edition of DnD

I don't even know how to react to this.

I can only give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are trolling the shit out of me.

>> No.25323665
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This is some /v/ level shit, op is actually a faggot this time.

>> No.25323681
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> Implying Pathfinder is better than 3.5, let alone any edition of D&D
> Implying Pathfinder is better than classic 2e
> Implying Pathfinder is better than Fantasy Craft, or any other D&D clone.

Not sure if trolling or just plain retarded...

>> No.25323687
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Pathfinder is nearly identical to 3.5. It is not truly different enough to merit distinction.

And you are forgetting that another company made D&D before Wizards, and made it better than Wizards OR Paizo.

>> No.25323695


Butthurt Paizofag detected.

>> No.25323698

I keep hearing this, but with no actual answers. I'd gladly play other dungeon crawlan RPGs if I knew which ones they were (and could find players), but no one ever wants to talk about which ones are good, only which ones are bad.

>> No.25323702

It's all broken that's why pathfinders a thing
What game will you play that everyone knows and is playable?

>> No.25323714

All of those were correct until you mentioned Magic. All TCGs suck, Magic just sucks the least.

>> No.25323725

>just self-contained areas of adventure themes. It's not a world so much as a collection of possible adventure themes pretending to be a world.
>lazy worldbuilding; nothing interacts
>You have archaic cultures living right next to a renaissance era not-France where people dress in colonial clothing. Guns exist, but for some reason only in one region. On top of that, the nations have alignments (why?) and the lore is uninspiring and derivative.

>> No.25323728

>any edition of DnD
>3.5 or 4th

Hello little boy, do you like candy? I've got some in my van

>> No.25323729


2e >>> 3.X and Pathfinderp

I can't stand these 3aboos/Pathfags that think Monte Cook's wizard wank-fest is the epitome of D&D.

>> No.25323745

Pathfinder is still broken you fucking cretin.

Pathfinder didn't solve a single fucking issue with 3.5

Casters are still broken as fuck.
Combat Manoeuvres are still beyond fucking useless
Fighters, monks, Samurai, etc. are still unplayable trash.
The skill system is still garbage
The feat system was left completely unchanged and is still garbage

>> No.25323749

Never took a step towards 2e dude
3.5 is just a mess to play
The classes all over the fucking place, the skill system is broken and high level games just trail off when someone picks a gamebreaker

>> No.25323750

D&D 4e
Savage Worlds
Dark Heresy et al.

>> No.25323765

But what if I don't want to stop adventuring and manage a castle at level 9+?

>> No.25323771


Here's what you do: you don't pull from the pool of people who already play RPGs. You will find incredible numbers of Pathfinderfags in that pool. That's not what you want.

You want to go to your friends. Your IRL friends. If you don't have any, make some. Find people from various walks of life, ideally some who have never played RPGs before, and make sure that everyone is reasonably mature and open-minded.

Then introduce whatever the fuck system you want to try out to them.

I ran 4th for the first time with a bunch of guys who had mostly never played RPGs before. After getting about halfway through Keep on the Shadowfell, we tried a Star Wars D6 oneshot that went well, and then I proposed that we give 2e Planescape a shot.

We never looked back after that.

>> No.25323776

I think it's the saddest thing in the world that there are so many people who honestly are more invested in hating Pathfinder than playing games.

>> No.25323788

noone likes 4e

>> No.25323798
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I don't really know what's going on.

>not using your own settings

It's really fun and easy.

>> No.25323809


Savage Worlds - best generic rpg IMO. Easily customized for fantasy, sci-fi etc.

Fantasy Craft - similar to 3.X (rules-heavy) but significant changes and improvements that make the game fresh and playable.

13th Age - rules-lite fantasy game inspired by 4e. Easy to learn and run.

Dungeon World - rules-light narrative fantasy game.

Barbarians of Lemuria - rules-light sword & sorcery.

Blade of the Iron Throne - rules-heavy sword & sorcery.

>> No.25323812


Then don't?

A) you only get a castle if you have land and take the time to build that fucker, which isn't appropriate for every campaign or setting
B) level 9 takes forever to get to
C) if you're rich enough to have a castle you can hire an NPC to manage your holdings and just drop by to collect your tax income every now and then

Your barony as a fighter is meant primarily as a source of income, a source of NPC followers, and a place for downtime between adventures.

>> No.25323816

Do tell how this thread is either
1. Constructive
2. Not akin to /v/ shit of just 'opinion' stains
I'm waiting.

>> No.25323818

>can't defend opinions
>"man, you guys must spend more time hating on pathfinder than playing your own games"

>> No.25323843

Then why is it consistently me and my friend's game of choice?

>> No.25323844

I thought the only point of the "default" settings was to give context for the mechanics to help explain them - the gods are this and that, magic works this way, alignment comes from other realms etc. It seems way easier to make shit up as needed instead of memorizing all the details of premade setting,

>> No.25323852

All TCGs are doomed to suck in the long run. Sooner or later, the original mechanics will get buried under a pile of escalatingly ridiculous bells and whistles.

Magic is so far gone at this point, that it may as well just be a pay to win korean MMO.

>> No.25323856

Not that anon, but not all of us grew up with tabletop RPGs. I'm nearly 30 and I only started playing tabletop games. Most of the RPGs I played growing up were of the console variety.

>> No.25323867

If that was true, it wouldn't be solid for $50.

>> No.25323869

Obvious you must be Noone then.

>> No.25323872


>I think it's the saddest thing in the world that there are so many people who honestly are more invested in hating 4E than playing games.
>I think it's the saddest thing in the world that there are so many people who honestly are more invested in hating THAC0 than playing games.
>I think it's the saddest thing in the world that there are so many people who honestly are more invested in hating 40k than playing games.
>I think it's the saddest thing in the world that there are so many people who honestly are more invested in hating Magic than playing games.

Do you see what a faggot you sound like?

>> No.25323882

You don't have to be old to have played 2e.

Hell, I'm 20 and I play 2e regularly, seeing as it's objectively the best edition of d&d.

>> No.25323884
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> Everyone shares my opinion
> NYT best seller list is completely fabricated


>> No.25323897


in 2e, is a fighter still as roughly valuable in combat, social, and exploration, and the mixes of those three (i'm not sure how social combat exploration would make sense, but I'd play it) if he doesn't use his free castle?

And is a fighter a valuble member of a 2e group in general?

>> No.25323913

Oh, hey, yeah. James Noone here. Me and the whole family, we love us some D&D 4e. Every Friday, it's me and the kids adventurin' up and down the world while my dear wife tries to kill us. Good family fun.

>> No.25323916

Pssst, there's a reason 2e is called "fighter edition".

>> No.25323928

Finally. Now I can start playing real games and stop giving a shit about D&D forever.

>> No.25323930


why do you need the original mechanics as original presented to stick around?

A TCG changes in bits and pieces (of course, a piece can be fucking huge), but I am not convinced that is bad.

>> No.25323931

Dude, you can get the whole core set of 2e on eBay for, like, ten bucks. That's what I did, and I don't even play the damn things.

>> No.25323934


> Implying some rpg settings aren't objectively bad.

I guess Twilight is just as good as Lord of the Rings, because it's just like your opinion man.

>> No.25323943


so the answer is yes?

>> No.25323952


>> No.25323957

Knowing barely anything else about the system, I now love 2e. FETCH ME MY POLEARMS.

>> No.25323990
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What you think is besides the point, it isn't worthy of an entire thread, you poor biased creature.
Have you my pity, farewell.

>> No.25324004


Generally, yes.

The castle actually isn't free. You need to pay for its construction with treasure, get land, etc. The part that IS free is the mass of followers you can attract once you have your barony.

You're below optimum if you don't use the followers and the castle, but below optimum for a fighter in 2e still puts you up with the casters and quite some distance above the thief. Casters don't start to outstrip the fighter in power until the mage hits something like 11-13, depending on the spells he can get. Even then, the fighter's still got a lot at his disposal in combat. Nearly everybody is at the same level in exploration and social stuff, because those are mostly RP'd in 2e rather than rolled (thieves usually have the edge in exploration, but social stuff usually just goes to whoever has the best ideas).

>> No.25324010

>discussing the merits of a RPG setting isn't worth an entire thread


>> No.25324026

Because the escalation means that previous sets are now obsolete. It's not that they simply don't have the same mechanics as new cards, it's that they are worthless when compared to the newer cards. This is a problem because wanting to continue playing requires constant investment, not simply because you are interested in a new set, but because you will constantly be on the losing end of every match.

>> No.25324030

>Talking like Sergalfag
>Being this full of yourself

>> No.25324046

There are many ways to get around this. And consider that right now in Magic, most Eternal formats are dominated by the older cards, it's not preordained.

>> No.25324065


>>25322510 here

no, I'm just a guy who's a little tired of people engaging in the conversational equivalant of bonking each other on the head with a rock, repeatedly.

>> No.25324070
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Yeah threads about rpg settings totally do
n't belong on /tg/!

We need moar 40Kids threads about how GW charges too much or about how awesome Spess Murreens are!

>> No.25324093

>people who disagree with me do not deserve to post

>> No.25324099


It's partially because the way 2e stats work, only very high stats give you a benefit, and they don't give you a particularly big one unless they're like 18s. Generally, if you can meet the minimum stat requirements for a class, you can play that class well. The only class that really has unfairly high requirements is Paladin with its 17 CHA req.

A fighter with average stats across the board and a semi-decent player can tear shit up, since most of your capabilities are just a matter of class and level. Good stats just let you tear shit up even harder. It's more important for other classes to have better stats (INT bumps the cap on the wizard's power up bit by bit, WIS does the same for the cleric, and a Thief with less than 12 DEX is pretty sad; thieves are underpowered in 2e), but a Fighter has a pretty low satisfice point.

>> No.25324184

The 2e system was good, though there are quite a few things I would fix (stat requirements, THAC0, wierd saves like save vs. wand). Still much better than 3.derp and Pathfinder though.

However, the best thing about 2e was the top-notch writing. Planescape and Dark Sun are the two best D&D settings ever published.

>> No.25324793


Stat requirements are mostly fine. I get why people dislike the principle, but in practice, if you don't meet the stat requirements for the class, you'd usually suck at the class. Paladins and bards are the only real exception; their CHA requirements are a bit too steep.

THAC0's really fine. A descending scale helps avoid the temptation of number inflation, and the way AC works, each armor class number corresponds to an actual armor type, rather than the more abstract association in d20. Both THAC0 and AC are absolute scales rather than relative ones, which has its advantages.

Nothing really wrong with saves either. Rod/staff/wand saves basically just means "this is the kind of save you take against magical artifacts". Breath weapon saves are obvious, but also deal with anything else that acts like a breath weapon -- blasts and such. Poison/paralyzation/death is also obvious: this basically corresponds directly to 3.X's Fortitude saves for most purposes. Petrification/polymorph is just how well you resist changes to your physical makeup in general; those are just the two most common applications. And spell saves are just general anti-magic saving throws against anything not listed above. It's a bit more complex than Ref/Fort/Will, but the rationale is pretty clear: these things work in different ways, so you resist in different ways.

>> No.25324846
File: 89 KB, 600x450, 8YZca.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


In a perfect world anyone caught using this word on 4chan would be shipped off to camps and gassed.

>> No.25325296

I don't really care too much about the official setting for any game. The way I see it, the official setting is there for inexperienced GMs.

>> No.25325308


Objectively, your statement sounds like that of a Nazi.

>> No.25325945
File: 8 KB, 200x256, 1269152080369.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I like you. You make we laugh with the truth.

>> No.25326229

Nice upside-down M.

>> No.25326263


I like Golarion, but honestly it never occured to me that I'm expected to use all of it unaltered all the time. To me it's a setting with lots of good material that can be easily included, added to or ignored in a world that can be altered to fit the game I'm running at the moment. Golarion is a great place for high fantasy adventures. If I don't want a renaissance tech nation next to ancient egypt then they don't both have to be present in the current campaign.

The complaints I'm hearing remind me of people hating on 40k as a setting because there's no plot progression. There isn't supposed to he because you create your own. In Pathfinder there's lots of good stuff to use in your campaign but there's no need to accept it all if it doesn't fit your narrative. Just take what you want from it.

>> No.25326506


>make we

Either "us" or "me". "We" is the first-person plural subject form. Doesn't work as a direct object or an indirect object.

>> No.25327130

This guy nailed it.

>> No.25327169

That's a silly thing for me to say. Everyme knows that first-person is the only proper form of communication. I should really go back to school.

>> No.25327321

Honestly, that's 4e. The Wizard is still the most powerful class in 2e, he's just a lot less so than he is in 3e. The Fighter is pretty essential but can also get dicked over pretty easily.

Still, at least none of them are Thief.

>> No.25327810

When i hear someone proclaim kitchen sink settings as stupid and crap, all i can think is that the person is a complete idiot with no understanding of real world cultures and just how varied it all is. Add in fucking magic, monsters, and real gods and the world will look fucking insane and be radically different in its various nations. I swear they think that the entire world should look like fucking western europe, or be like the US, or is entirely Arab; its fucking dumb.

Also that bullshit of Not!France being next to Not!Egypt is fucking wrong. Its like they've actually never looked at the fucking world map.

>> No.25327916

But in the real world those cultures totally interacted with and affected each other, you retard.

>> No.25327932

>not Song of Swords

>> No.25327970

And they do the same thing in fucking Golarion you cock gargler. Seriously go read the fucking wiki. There is mention of how they interact.

>> No.25327986

This thread is dumb. I don't like Golarion either, but if you don't like a setting you can just create your own.

>> No.25328010

>Seriously go read the fucking wiki. There is mention of how they interact.
>that country which is entirely based around manufacturing immortality fluid
>that country dominated by technomages and giant mechanical monstrosities

>> No.25328075

Numeria, the country founded by wizards that stumbled upon an ancient crashed spaceship. They use alien tech that they only barely control.

>> No.25328095

Okay. So that's a huge deal. Tell me about Numeria's history with its neighbours and its current political relations with them please.

>> No.25328196

The barbarian tribes of the region are at war with the 'technomancers', the alien tech is currently spying on everyone(yes its got its own agenda), and the wizards are currently trying to build up supplies to once again try to take over the region, something they failed at a century ago. Nobody like them and they are a horrible iron dictatorship.

>> No.25328214


>> No.25328229

It's a tool. That's all it is.

It's a tool for placing stuff in world to give the Pathfinder Society some continuity, and makes no more or less sense than any of a thousand different fictional setting in impossible world scenarios in a hundred thousand novels.

I mean, really, WH40K isd 20,000 years of constant warfar with no innovation, no technological advancement, and no one race wiping out any other. It's a settign for use as a backdrop or to insert you personal little adventures into, and if you don't like it, then make your own.

It's a prefectly viable world for where magic and powerful monsters and ancient races exist; it's less delusional than the Points of Light "Setting" for 4e, for example, where the entire history of the world has been erased because gods beat each other up with sticks, there is a huge disparity between a PC and an NPC that is utterly nonsensical (NPCs literally cannot take any PC classes ever, otherwise they're a PC!); or Exalted, where the Solars cannot lose ever because they were meant to kill things more powerful than gods, except they all lost.

Really, complaining about Golarion is like complaining about Forgotten Realms (this entire society of wizards hasn't taken over the entire world because reasons, desp[ite how broken they are in 3.5), Greyhawk (city ruled by a dragon, because he can't be bothered to take over a country), or even more hilarious Dragonlance (you can't be tough because gods say no, suck it up crybaby and have a kender to steal all your crap as a practical joke).

OP's entire reasoning is "I dun like it 'cause reasons" and it's an opinion that apparently a lot of people just don't share. "Deluded" is someone who thinks that fantasy worlds have to make realistic sense.

>> No.25328256

That is literally all internal information. Can you not read or are you just pretending you can't? Numeria borders fucking Brevoy, for fuck's sake.

>> No.25328366

Whats your point, A nation built in a harsh lanscape inhabited by barbarian tribes, where a few wizards and a despot found some anciant alien tech they barely understand and control, and they try to use this tech to conquer the entire river kingdoms region which comprises something like all of western europe which is quite a bit of fucking land. How is this dumb?

>> No.25328422

I like how the idea that GM's are open to their own political interpretations of what is going on as opposed to having them shoehorned in is against the rules according to these people complaining about how there is no geopolitical reality to the situation.

Sure, they could assign geopolitics, and the first thing any GM is going to do is say "this doesn't fit what I want, I'm going to change it all". There is no geopolitical interaction because the setting is meant to be adjusted to the GM's desires. That this is a hard concept is amusing considering how many people complain about geopolitical situations they get spoon fed.

>> No.25328491

Exactly. They give the basics so that you can flesh it out the way you want to. they give some basic historical facts about how the country came to be, and its basic position in the politcs of the region and let the DMs flesh out all the specifics.

>> No.25328526

PDF in full swing about the complete absence of information in what would be key world properties/events.

Good job, guys. You get a discount on your next PDF or what?

>> No.25328527

That's a fucking lie.

>> No.25328620

nope because I torrent everything, and dont pay a lot of attention to the books coming out six months from now.

>> No.25328697
File: 69 KB, 319x298, 1369340537714.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I like Hellknights.

>> No.25328731

What the fuck are talking about? A PDF that talks expands on the geoploitics of the various nations? Are you really wanting an Encyclopedia telling you about every NPC and their contributions to how the world works, along with detailing every little fucking thing about the world? Because thats a fucking retarded thing to expect from an RPG company and is something none of them has ever fucking produced.

>> No.25328793

Oh wait i see what your saying now. The Pathfinder Defense Force has come about explaining that are are fucking "key world properties/events" that have taken place if you read the fucking wiki about the various nations.

In other words, your're a retard.

>> No.25328872

>Pathfinder Defense Force

Okay, this is just silly.

>> No.25328918
File: 30 KB, 643x643, ZZ-SIDF.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Do we need a new version for the PIDF?

>> No.25328921

its what he called us. and yeah it is. I dont even use the actual golarion setting, just large chunks of it for my own homebrew.

>> No.25328976

>that have taken place if you read the fucking wiki about the various nations.
Okay, no. Numeria is weird as fuck and crazy and it borders like six other nations. A nation exists solely to produce a longevity drug and this is not addressed internationally or internally at all.

The setting is barely stitched together, that's the problem with. FR is 100 times more considered than Golarion.

>> No.25329023

Which nation is this? seriously you need to get fucking specific with your arguments instead of keeping them vague.

>> No.25329108


Here's the trick: the Fighter starts out ahead of the Mage in 2e, and keeps his lead much longer than in 3e.

The Mage doesn't pull ahead until the Fighter's already had his barony for a level or two, and by that point both characters have had hundreds of thousands of XP worth of adventures, so it's not like you're going to reach that point in a year of play unless the DM is just passing out XP like cheap cigars.

3.X and 4E, everybody's set up to level a lot faster than in 2e.

>> No.25329145



Neither is an excuse for being terrible.

>> No.25329150

I play my own setting in my own PF world. Fuck pre-made settings.

>> No.25329178


To be more precise: the XP formulas of the respective editions mean that, on average, a 3.X character will level every 13.3 encounters (assuming encounters equal to the party's level via CR rules), a 4E character will level every 10 encounters (similar assumption), but a 2e character? He'll level every couple of whole adventures.

In practice, 3.X encounters move up and down the CR scale, and 4E encounters go up the CL scale too, so they level even faster, but 2e characters still take a lot longer to go up.

>> No.25329179

i thought they are pretty cool. give some good flavor and mechanical effects for accomplishing things in the campaign.

>> No.25329206


Now, lets see you discuss that about 4e's points of light setting please. Forgotten Realms? Greyhawk? Oh, right, because PC's were given exactly no chance to influence ANY of those settings because the NPCs did it all.

Brilliant idea.

>> No.25329240

Actually 4e's setting is pretty empty, just a valley to give a good starting point and then its the DMs world after that. Most people confuse the PoL for the official FR setting.

>> No.25329357

I don't get it; are you saying laori vaus is a good character, or that she is lame? Aslo what exactly makes her noteworthy?

>> No.25329375

Fighter also has the biggest selection of magical items at his disposal. By level 12 the items you will have will kick serious ass. Magic items in 2e where awesome.

Sword of Life Stealing: This +2 weapon will eliminate one level of experience (or Hit Die) and accompanying hit points and abilities when it strikes any opponent on a natural roll of 20. This function is the same as the level-draining ability of certain undead creatures.

The sword wielder can gain as many hit points as an opponent loses to this function of the weapon, up to the maximum number of hit points the character is allowed (i.e., only a character who has suffered loss of hit points can benefit from the function).

Hammer of Thunderbolts: This appears to be a large, extra-heavy hammer. A character less than 6 feet tall and with Strength less than 18/01 will find it too unbalanced to wield properly in combat. However, a character of sufficient Strength and size will find that the hammer functions with a +3 bonus and gains double damage dice on any hit.

If the wielder wears a girdle of giant strength and gauntlets of ogre power and he knows the hammer's true name, the weapon can be used to full effect: When swung or hurled it gains a +5 bonus, double damage dice, all girdle and gauntlet bonuses, and it strikes dead any giant upon which it scores a hit.

(Depending on the campaign, the DM might wish to limit the effect to exclude storm giants and include ogres, ogre magi, trolls, ettins, and clay, flesh, and stone golems.)

When hurled and successfully hitting, a great noise, like a clap of thunder, stuns all creatures within 90 feet for one round. Throwing range is 180 feet. (Thor would throw the hammer about double the above range.) The hammer of thunderbolts is difficult to hurl, so only one throw every other round can be made. After five throws within the space of any two-turn period, the wielder must rest for one turn.

Hammers can be hurled as hand axes.

>> No.25329404

Yes, it makes perfect sense. There's little tiny pockets of civilization everywhere, with no trade, no racial demographics other than "they're all here", and there are no natural resources except what can sustain a single city in perfect and total isolation from every other single city. It makes perfect sense.

Forgotten Realms is great, it has political interactions, and huge geopolitical fgactions, and the PC's are in a position to influence absolutely none of it because the major players are all statted out, fixed points in the setting. At least, until the GM says "oh, I don't like this, I'm changing it all around."

What OP is complainign about is very strange when put into context with other settings with geopolitical situations. Either they're even more empty and useless, or they're so chock full of geopolitics that the players really don't matter except in terms of the local country they're in, which is covered by the PF information anyways. At least if the geopolitics are open ended the Pc's can actually work to influence them in ways THEY want to as opposed to trying to crack open a bolder with a hammer since they have to somehow displace the god-mode NPCs from the geopolitics before they can even make a move.

>> No.25329499


A lot of said major players have reasons not to do shit, though. Drizzt, for instance, sticks to the north, and the wilderness; it's easy to explain why he's not in your campaign. Elminster keeps to himself and doesn't get involved in shit unless he's already involved.

These are just examples. FR has plenty of holes to slide your story into.

>> No.25329568

Yeah, one of the reasons i absolutely hated FR was that it had way too much info about the geopolitics. Another was the fact that it all seemed to reflect faux-european ideas on everything in the setting. which was boring.

capthca: other Basedme

yes he is.

>> No.25329570

>Yes, it makes perfect sense. There's little tiny pockets of civilization everywhere, with no trade, no racial demographics other than "they're all here", and there are no natural resources except what can sustain a single city in perfect and total isolation from every other single city. It makes perfect sense.
There totally is trade and interaction and racial demographics though. The first sequence of adventure modules was about that IIRC.

>> No.25329593

But one of the worst aspects of FR is that it's overconsidered. There's very little left to a DM's interpretation with Faerun and that's always rubbed me the wrong way.

>> No.25329724


Sticks to the Nentir Vale, though, for the most part.

Outside the Nentir Vale, everything's up to the DM. It's not a bad idea. Reminds me of Greyhawk: Gygax went out of his way to keep the details in the Greyhawk setting sketchy, because he figured that players didn't want to hear about his game and even if they did, better for them to have clear room for their own stuff.

>> No.25329738

>two examples of apolitical entities
Yes, because your examples are so relevant to say, Zhentil Keep, the Horde, or Greyhawk's relations to Flaaness.

Greyhawk had political machinations, and you know what? The players ignored them, by and large. Even in Living Greyhawk, where there was organization in real world geopolitics, the influences of geopolitics on the game was negligible. So successful and important were those geopolitical situations that no one gave a damn.

Sorry, Op's complaint is just a lot of buthurt that people are enjoying a game that he hates.

>> No.25329774


AD&D had pretty potent magic items, but I'm not sure the Hammer of Thunderbolts is a realistic example. Odds of getting the full set without a monty haul DM ... pretty small. Odds of having weapon specialization long sword even if you do get it ... pretty large (won't stop you from using it, but each and every time you see it on your character sheet it's still going to be a kick in the groin)

>> No.25329817

In this situation its true. Golarion is objectively worse than Dragonlance.

your shitty homebrew that you dont want to talk about is objectively better than Golarion.

>> No.25329882

Can you now post a diagram of the geopolitical map of Dragonlance for me?

>> No.25329899


>Golarion is just a patchwork mess of random nations and cultures stitched together with no thought towards how they interact and influence each other. You have archaic cultures living right next to a renaissance era not-France where people dress in colonial clothing. Guns exist, but for some reason only in one region.
You could say similar things about the Earth about 500 years ago.

>> No.25329906

May other settings, particularly the long lasting popular ones are actual settings and not just "repainting real world nations".

>> No.25329938

Here almost every day. Exalted is much more wanted than PF.

>> No.25329966

we /v/ nao?

>> No.25329977

Sorry, nothing is objective about a statement that claims kender are better than halflings.

>> No.25329998

People paid money for Exlated, of course they want to see it published, otherwise their money goes nowhere. They didn't pay for PF before it was published.

>> No.25330003

>child rape simulator is more popular than pathfinder

Okay then

>> No.25330055

yes, and who makes more money in sales of the game? Pathfinder. In other words, its objectively wanted more by more people.

>> No.25330063
File: 9 KB, 139x134, 1343629672999.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

So on one side there's people getting defensive and on the other is the usual hurr titplate autists who have a marked inability to suspend their disbelief.


>> No.25330178


Furry child rape.

>> No.25330699

The NYT best seller list is fabricated. It exist to garner interest for whoever's book that paid for the perk

>> No.25330756

No but it's a good thread really,
they sure showed me.

>> No.25332297


I don't think you understand the concept kitchen sink fantasy, idiot.

>> No.25332601
File: 111 KB, 576x720, mfw_dog.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

TIL there are Paizo fanboys who actually think Golarion is good.

Well I guess people will even slurp up shit like Golarion and Twilight if it's marketed properly...

>> No.25332766

So whats wrong with the world? and get specific, if its just some vague notion of not liking it, you have no excuse to shit on others for liking it.

>> No.25332795


In 5 years of tabletop roleplaying I have never, ever, in my life, ever met any single person who ever plays using the prepackaged settings. Ever.


I thought they were just an example.

>> No.25332829


Planescape, Dark Sun, Eberron, and Spelljammer would all like a word with you.

Though I guess if you've just never encountered anyone who tried to run them, it's not your fault.

>> No.25332852


You can read the rest of the thread. The reasons have already been repeated by several users. It's not that hard to see why Golarion is an incoherent pile of crap.

>> No.25332881

and i dispute that as been pointed out repeatedly in this thread. So start giving some exapmples that arent shit.

>> No.25333011


Nobody mentioned another edition or even criticized the Pathfinder system (which is objectively bad) so I don't know where you got that.

>> No.25333062

Here is a good exercise to figure out why some poeple hate the whole kitchen-sink thing. please define it so we know what the fuck your talking about.

no, its subjectively bad for you, i happen to like the level of rules and the mechanics.

>> No.25333067

>implying Pathfinder and a few game stores don't misreport their sales out of sperglord pride

>> No.25333076

its fine, just not all that inspiring

>> No.25333082

That doesn't make it subjectively bad, it just makes you wrong.

>> No.25333099


Have you heard of Google?


>> No.25333201
File: 210 KB, 500x500, srslyanon.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

So how is it wrong objectively? and be specific and dont use your opinions.

OMG theres aliens in my fantasy setting! OMG theres guns in my middle ages simulator!

Its a high fantasy setting that places itself in a place where there are other worlds with high tech that can travel the stars. How fuckin hard is that to realize and accept?

>> No.25333248


>> No.25333284

ha, i havent even watched that show.

>> No.25333327
File: 499 KB, 500x281, 1359770395581.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>posting ponies out of irony rather than interest

>> No.25333407
File: 53 KB, 640x480, omg it spins.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


> mlp

Get out.

> OMG theres aliens in my fantasy setting! OMG theres guns in my middle ages simulator!

Uh I don't have a problem with guns or aliens in fantasy. Robert E Howard had fantasy aliens in the Conan stories. Warhammer fantasy has both aliens and guns.

You know what the difference between these two setting and Golarion is? They are designed by talented writers who have a coherent vision in mind for the setting.

The problem is Golarion is haphazardly stitched together in a way that makes no sense. It tries to be a fantasy kitchen sink like FR and Greyhawk, and fails miserably.

>> No.25333440

My friend said this of Golarion:

>Where its cool because there's an expy of as many historical regions as possible, just like Forgotten Realms, just like Warhammer Fantasy, and Middle Earth, with the distinction of being made decades after any of those settings.

>> No.25333448


> ha, i havent even watched that show.

An mlp fan in denial. At least admit your sick and twisted love for mlp you degenerate.

>> No.25333504


> Implying Golarion is anywhere near the level of FR (which is mediocre) and Warhammer Fantasy (which is good) and Middle Earth (which is a classic).

>> No.25333521

how? examples. seriously i want some examples.

Sucks to be you then because i havent watched it.

>> No.25333615
File: 33 KB, 425x589, these aren't my glasses.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


> People give examples of why Golarion is shit.

Stay deluded, Paizo fanboy.

>> No.25333635

Middle Earth is shit and so goddamn boring. Same with fucking FR and Warhammer. Apparently /tg/ likes mid to low magic settings that are Pre-Renaissance simulators.

I loved watching the movies and liked reading the books of Tolkein but playing them is fucking boring.

>> No.25333733

i said specifics not just:
>its a kitchen sink setting, waaah
>other writers did it better in my opinion, waah
This seriously is looking like fucking nostalgia is what makes these better than Golarion. Its new so its shit syndrome.

>> No.25333766

I'm not saying that Golarion is good. I'm saying that it's trying to do something that's already been done to death by better writers generations ago.

>> No.25333809
File: 225 KB, 373x327, Edgy.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


> Middle Earth is shit

Troll detected.

> Warhammer is pre-renaissance.

Confirmed troll, or maybe extreme retard with zero reading comprehension.

> FR low magic

Maybe both troll and retard?

>> No.25333893
File: 1.69 MB, 240x320, a7e6cc6c25ce.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Honestly? Probably about as often as Forgotten Realms fans play in theirs, or Dragonlance fanboys try to pretend Krynn is worth the effort, or anyone who defends Greyhawk as anything but a pablum of the blandest kind.

So, bigger question- Why are you asking?

>> No.25333942

im sorry if im fucking tired of Humans, dwarf, elf amd a/few small people adventuring to slay the bbeg with practically no magic.

i forgot that Warhammer isnt Pre-Renassaince, also FR is mid-level magic, you dont see very few applications of high level magic and they have very little effect on the regions they are in.

>> No.25333946

Okay, I got some.

The setting feels like a collection of adventure themes rather than actual countries. Rather than a cohesive whole, the setting just feels like mini-settings that are stuck together for some reason. They don't make sense in context of each other. It's all over the map in theme and tone, and doesn't work together. As well, each setting is basically "Theme-land!" Like "Barbarian-land!" or "Magi-tech-land!" or "1800's Republic-land!" Not really very interesting.

>> No.25333967

Fantasy kitchen sink is bad because it is the most generic of fantasy settings. Say what you will about Tolkein being cliche, at least it has a solid and particularily notable setting. Same with settings like Eberron estowing Dungeon-Punk aesthetics. Admittedly, most D&D settings tend to come down with a bad case of Cliche + Generic, but the good ones will have a strong center that gives it it's flavor.
Golarion is particularily obnoxious to people who've been playing D&D because it is specifically generic in order to allow absolutely everything in it. That is it's core aesthetic is that of the world filled with everything, so people looking for one particular kind of story don't resonate with it.

>> No.25334094

ok, i can understand that if you just skim the entries on the regions.

yeah, its core is high fantasy adventure.

Honestly i dont know how you cant make a kitchen sink setting if you want your setting to reflect an actual world. Its simply impossible. if you restrict your setting to a small area you could, but then that gets very boring, very fast.

>> No.25334233


> I don't know how you CAN'T make a kitchen sink setting if you want your setting to reflect an actual world.

Comments like these really open my eyes to how many stupid people there are out there.

>> No.25334358

make a setting where there isnt a not!arabia in a region that is semi desert near the tropical region of a planet. You cant. The reasons are because the style of dress is best for that region, the diet of the region will be mostly the same and other such things that if your world follows most of the rules ours does. Hell, ive tried and the every time i think out the consequences of how things work it results in some form of not!arabia.

>> No.25334498

Elves live in forests, dwarves live in mountains, humans are various renamed versions of real life cultures, archaic firearms are thrown in for cool factor but have no bearing on the technology level of the setting like they should, random ass persistent stormy region in the ocean (Maelstrom from Warcraft anyone?) and jungle full of gorillas and black people.

Kitchen sink as fuck.

>> No.25334533

Continuation of this post, entire section of setting devoted to pirate rp, entire section of setting devoted to oriental, entire section to Arabic/Middle Eastern vibe role play, entire section devoted to European medieval, etc.

>> No.25334560

ok, and how is that bad?

>> No.25334567

Having arabia in a setting doesn't make it a kitchen sink setting: There's levels of variation all over most settings. What matters is themes and tone.
If the theme is high-fantasy adventure, then you should get that everywhere. Arabia should be fucking packed with Djinns, there are literal dust devils running about, and magical phenomena is just as rampant as in the fantasy europe area. We encounter fantasy kitchen sink, the bad kind, when going to fantasy arabia changes the themes and tone of the adventure into ones more suited to Arabian myth: Lots of swordfighting, rare but potent magic, an emphasis on trickery and cunning rather than the wizards and warriors you'd find elsewhere.
That's what makes the kitchen sink phenomena obnoxious, it regularily changes tone and theme as it goes from one place to another.

>> No.25334592

its boring. and thats the worst thing a setting can do.

>> No.25334640

In golarion the arab region has a huge number of djinn, div, other arab monsters and magic is fucking everywhere. the levels are the same as in the european areas.

frankly, having only one theme is fucking boring.

>> No.25334653
File: 600 KB, 500x645, lrfhb cover2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

It's terrible writing, unoriginal, very cobbled together and patchworky, the "archetype" settings don't seem to interact in any way with one another, there is no real, cohesive metaplot, no overarching theme, and it lacks many other elements that make a setting memorable and worthwhile, such as interesting and sensible antagonists and places worthy of exploration that aren't "jungle full of Africans."

If you can't see why putting archetypical fantasy races and real life human ethnicities with real names into their own, divided subregions and calling it a "unified setting" is bad writing and a poor excuse for a role play world, then you should reassess your tastes because you're missing out on something actually worthy of your time.

Then again it's less likely you've not been exposed to another setting and more likely you're a frothing, blind paizofan so have an image that suits you.

>> No.25334688

>What you like is objectively bad

>> No.25334696

>spoonfeed me

You're not worthy of a discussion.

>> No.25334733

No counterargument, just "Uh oh, I better go back to those typical /tg/ lines like NO FUN ALLOWED or "Stop liking what I don't like" to act like they're being unreasonable instead of having to defend my point and interests which I apparently don't care enough about to have a single reason to justify my liking for it in the face of criticism.

>> No.25334768

if golarion is shit whats the best version thats an RPG setting?

An actual question to deconstruct why its bad is equated to spoonfeeding. You are everything wrong with discussion on /tg/ and in the world in general.

>> No.25334789


Yeah I think this guy is a serious autist.

>> No.25334807

Oh, am I? Someone criticizes your setting and instead of pointing out what's good about it, why you like it, or detailing your experiences with it, you fall back on the 4 year old child response of "Why?" over and over again.

You know what we call this on 4chan?


>> No.25334821
File: 45 KB, 1024x423, Butthurt3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


> You are everything wrong with discussion on /tg/ and in the world in general

>> No.25334852

That might be a little skewed, because someone dumped the link to it on here. And from what I understand isn't Ultimate Campaign like a list of rules to make a campaign?

I haven't really read it when I've had access to it, so I don't know much about the inside other than the opening.

>> No.25334857

That's because it doesn't need any. You're trying to prove that the writing is objectively bad, which, given no universal axiom of writing against which to measure it, is impossible. It's subjective.

I enjoy the regions, feel that they can be fleshed out or made sense of with relatively little effort and provide both breadth of locations to choose from and lots of interesting components.

I realize you disagree with me. You're welcome to. That's perfectly fine. That's nice.

Just don't expect me to try and convince you. I don't give a damn.

>> No.25334898

sigh, I like it because it has varied region that i can place stories in, Its loose enough in its details that i can insert my own take on how they function but tight enough to form a solid base to work off of. I can run a huge menagerie of differnet and intersting character ideas in it and wont break the world.

All i keep asking is why kitchen sink equals bad, i literally dont get the reasoning, it isnt obvious to me and the fact that everyone refuses to lay out why is frustrating.

>> No.25334934

Claiming that I'm calling your setting universally bad in every way to everyone ever is not going to alleviate your autism nor make you seem less retarded.

What I can't say is that the setting is truly bad. What I can do is point out how it is. In your post you say "I like this and that herpderp" but don't give a single reason why other than "they make sense." What the fuck does that mean? I'd think "making sense" is a given for a setting, not a quality that should be hailed as novel and eminent.

So yes, we disagree. The difference is, I have an actual reason and all you've got is "Why? Why? Why? Convince me, convince me."

>> No.25334938


> what is ctrl-f

Learn to read, autist. It's been explained multiple times in this thread.

>> No.25334943

0/10 worst thread on broadway

>> No.25334965

>varied regions that I can play stories in
Name one setting that doesn't.

>loose enough in its details that I can insert
Name one setting that isn't.

>I can run a huge menagerie of dierrnet cheurxsters
Name one setting where you can't.

All you're saying is "Golarion is a great setting because it fulfills some of the basic criteria of being called a setting."

>> No.25334982

You've gotten a number of answers, and yet you keep saying the same shit. I'll summarize:
1) It's generic and that's bad
2) It's lots of lackluster shit and that's bad
3) It's generic, poorly planned, not interesting in any specific areas, and that's bad.
So, why do you like it anon? Without saying "Because it has lots of stuff."

>> No.25335003

It also had ideas that i already had in my own homebrew, and or had better versions then what i had thought up. thats why i like it.

>> No.25335026

tell me a better version, seriously, and you cant use FR or Greyhawk.

>> No.25335030

Can we agree it's possible for you to like something that's bad?

>> No.25335045


If Golarion is a better version of your homebrew, I shudder to think about how shitty your homebrew is.

>> No.25335049

Eberron. Planescape. Dark Sun. That's three.

>> No.25335052

Perhaps "I don't give a damn." wasn't clear. Why on god's green earth would I want to convince you?
You're welcome to dislike it. You're welcome to call me Piazo Internet Defense Force (though this is my fourth post in this thread,) and you're welcome to call me an autistic or suggest that I have retarded reasoning.

I don't know when you decided this was SRS BZNS, but I'm glad I don't agree.

>> No.25335082

>implying anybody, ANYBODY besides society players play in Golarion.

I guarantee you that 60% of the players in society even barely know gook about the official world.
Any pathfinder gm either plays patchwork homebrewing with a few areas they heard of , start from scratch and keep the races, or just play modules

>> No.25335104

ive already taken ideas from there and its a great setting but i dont like large portions of it. Im ambivelant towwards Planescape, something just rub me wrong in it. And i really hate desert worlds, but love thrikeen.

>> No.25335136
File: 1.23 MB, 1429x2200, 1344286044280.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Yup you guys got me, I'm a 3aboo because I play pathfinder and not an outdated system with no updates and outdated mechanics!!!!!!

>> No.25335182


As you have seen in this thread, there are indeed Paizo fanboys who think Golarion is good. Hell, I used to be a regular on the Paizo forums and it was full of rabid fanboys who would cream their pants and rave about how amazing Golarion is.

Think about how stupid the median consumer is. Then keep in mind that half of all people are stupider than that consumer.

>> No.25335183

except you do, dipshit. wizards aint updating 3e anymore, they haven't updated it in years.

>> No.25335214


> Implying Pathfinder doesn't have outdated mechanics.
> Implying Pathfinder is even superior to 3.5.

Paizo fanboys sure are deluded...

>> No.25335243


Looks like you just have shit taste. It's ok, there's lots of people out there just like you. I mean Twilight is really popular and so is Justin Bieber.

>> No.25335250
File: 280 KB, 1100x733, 25-David-Lazar-Laughing-Cheetahs.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>This thread
>This whole fucking thread
It's really like I'm on /v/ again!

>> No.25335254

>says he doesn't care
>keeps replying
>his posts all seem to be attempts at convincing

>> No.25335261

>not using Pathfinder's rules with E6 and Armor-as-DR to run an incredible Eberron or Dark Sun game

What is wrong with you people

>> No.25335273

so, those arent better in my opinion. and since there isnt an objective standard to go by you guys hating on golarion for appealing to a certain type of player who is neither smarter nor dumber than you. Your tastes are not an objective standard that is applied to all people. God i fucking hate self absorbed assholes who think that their opinions are the gold fucking standard of what is awesome. You dont see me coming into thread about FR and shitting on it. So why an entire thread for that with Golarion?

>> No.25335291


> Using Pathfinder instead of Savage Worlds, Fantasy Craft, or 13th Age.


>> No.25335305

>not using Old-School Hack

pleb achieved

>> No.25335313

stop whining.

>> No.25335315


Because Golarion is objectively shit for the reasons already pointed out. Just like how Twilight is objectively shit and so is Justin Bieber's generic teen pop.

>> No.25335349

except that there are different ways to evaluate those things that can make them better that the stuff you like. Tastes are fucking subjective you incrediblely idiotic asshats.

>> No.25335386
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Wow what a butthurt sperglord

>> No.25335422

If all you talk about is how mad you aren't, then you're pretty mad. People who aren't that angry don't try to use their self-proclaimed lack of emotions as a point of pride, because they're rational enough to realize it doesn't work.

>> No.25335518
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>> No.25335523
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Let me try and explain why Golarion, and settings like it, are bad in the most simple way.

Golarion is like a giant tub, like a rubbermaid container or just a big-ass box, completely filled with every lego set you've ever owned. This is seems fine in a way, because it contains all your legos in one convenient place, and gives you the ability to access all the parts from every set.

In practice, what you have is a royal clusterfuck where everything you need is ripped into tiny shreds and scattered and buried amongst everything you don't need, don't want, and can't possibly use.

What you want is a singular playset. You want one theme, one quantifiable, controllable, manageable set. One set will give you all the parts you need, with very little of what you don't, and should you find yourself needing more, working from a single set and reaching out to other sets to borrow pieces is easier than scrambling all sets into one bucket.

Good campaigns are created with certain goals in mind. They set out to do specific things that will reinforce and emphasize the things you want to do and accomplish. They will facilitate player actions in a way that will fit the settings without needing to railroad or force the issue.

With Golarion, you have so much shit that you can't possibly need, constantly muddling the overarching goal and getting in the way of what you want to be doing, that the best solution to all the problems it causes is to simply not use it. Use parts of it, sure, but Golarion practically mandates that you disassemble it into smaller, more manageable pieces, then discard a majority of them to get what you need from it.

>> No.25335531
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sperglord pls go

>> No.25335562
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I'm surprised no one has posted the Golarion map with stuff painted over it with text saying stuff like, "Cowboy Land", "Caveman Land", "Bunga Bunga Land" and "Pirates Here". I can't seem to find it.

Personally, I like Pathfinder because I'm familiar with 3.5 but the kitchen sink setting does not appeal to me. My first system was 2E and I did not enjoy it as much as the 3.x ones.

>> No.25335624

W-what about Ebberon?

>> No.25335628

Its pretty shit if a whole planet is tailored to a single campaign.

>> No.25335662

Eberron is for the cool kids. But it's not to be played on D&D.

Eberron is a FATE setting

>> No.25335702


>there is no real, cohesive metaplot

Good. Fuck metaplots.

>> No.25335732

The point is that you don't need a whole planet that conveniently contains every possible setting, theme, genre, technology level.

Look at Lord of the Rings, if you really need to get what I'm talking about. You don't even see the whole world, but you see enough of it to paint one large, internally consistent, believable world instead of one insanely fragmented one where you have to constantly ask why all the cool things in that other place they showed aren't there all the time making everything else not the way it is now.

>> No.25335738
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>Criticizing Golarion while praising Eberron in the same sentence.

>> No.25335749


>Fantasy Craft

It just wouldn't be a Pathfinder thread without someone bringing this shit up.

>> No.25335790

And no mention of Fantasy Craft is complete without the informed disdain of someone who keeps getting told to look into a better system, but refuses to out of some deluded sense of superiority.

>> No.25335801

And that should have been 'uninformed'
Now the whole damn post is ruined.
Thanks Obama.

>> No.25335848


You've pegged me wrong there, chum. I've read through the entirety of Fantasy Craft's rulebook. In theory it's a sound system, but by the gods whoever they put in charge of actually organizing that book in a way that was easily understood should have been fired. Attempting to teach it to my players was like pulling teeth, and Pathfinder is hardly the only game we play.

Maybe if I consolidated only the key points on a system of note cards it would be easier, but as it stands the Core book is a mess.

>> No.25335850

no, thats pretty accurate, its informed disdain for it.

>> No.25335870

>Are all Pathfinder fans this deluded? This guy actually thinks that Golarion is a good setting, and goes as far as to compare it to the setting of the Witcher series.

Both Golarion and the Witcher setting are uninspired DnD rip-offs, so it is absolutely correct to compare them.

>> No.25335903
File: 159 KB, 495x640, Golarion_pretty_accurate.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

just for you, and i love golarion

>> No.25335906

I read through and summarized the entire system for my players. In fact, it was the only way they'd agree to play. Ever since I taught them how and we ran the best damn campaign we've ever had, they refuse to go back to any other system. They actively scorn 3.5 and Pathfinder and openly wonder how they ever enjoyed RPGs without FC's level of customization and detail.

Once you get over that hill, there's paradise on the other side.

>> No.25335944
File: 17 KB, 686x375, hurf.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>ITT sperglords trolling spergdukes and spergkings trolling spergemperors

>> No.25335985

Can i run a minotaur monk that acts like the movie kungfu hussle? Can i run an Elven gunslinger? Can i run a pyschic warrior dwarf who kills with his mind and then guts someone with his sword? Can i run a living construct out to discover what love is(a bard)? Because Pathfinder can run all those wondefully.

>> No.25335988
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As far as Kitchen Sink settings go, I really like Ravenloft, because there's a given reason as to why the world is such a way (even if it's just because lol Dark Powers).

And the Gazetteers were a blast to read.

>> No.25336013

Fantasy Craft can run all of those with more detailed rules and more fine-tuned customization.

>> No.25336027


Maybe I'll give it another go someday. I just have bad memories about the first time I made the attempt to explain things to my players and they were staring at me like I had seven heads.

Admittedly, my favorite part is how brilliantly easy it is to whip up statblocks for monsters and NPCs. There's even an online utility for it.

>> No.25336046


> Because Pathfinder can run all those wondefully.

The options you listed are trap choices. They definitely don't work well in PF. Especially the monk. PF monks are just terrible.

>> No.25336053

This thread is full of stupid.

1) A ruleset and a campaign setting are not the same thing.

2) Most settings are 'kitchen sink' settings. The problem is that they either don't provide much variety in real flavor (see Forgotten Realms) or they are overwrought to the point of Improbability Drive (Eberron, Planescape).

3) The alternative to 'kitchen sink' fantasy settings in published materials is usually either low-magic/low-tech or exceedingly warped cosmologies only tacked together by 'it's-magic-I-ain't-gotta-explain-shit.'

4) People's complaints that guns and the bronze age exist in the same setting are justified in that such a setting is implausible, but not for any of the reasons they've stated. The real world still has that degree of disparity today (if not a greater one), but in a world of Dimension Doors, technology is liable to spread rather quickly.

In conclusion, design your own setting or try to tailor a published one to your interests. Arguing 'this badly-thought-out setting is better than that one' is stupid.

>> No.25336074

I don't think you really get how fucked Golarion is.


This is astonishingly accurate.

>> No.25336093


>Can i run a minotaur monk that acts like the movie kungfu hussle?

Yes. In fact, the grappling/martial art moves in Fantasy Craft are pretty robust.

>Can i run an Elven gunslinger?


>Can i run a pyschic warrior dwarf who kills with his mind and then guts someone with his sword?


>Can i run a living construct out to discover what love is(a bard)?

Fantasy Craft makes it easy to customize your construct in ways that Warforged can only dream of. Multiple arms, multiple limbs, tons of options, and that's just at character creation.

>> No.25336102

Golarion is basically the worst kitchen sink setting you can imagine, but even shittier and less coherent.

>> No.25336161

I like how all your 'gotcha' options are pretty awful and generic.

>> No.25336163


I'm not saying Golarion is anything but a badly designed setting. That's not my point. My point is that you can pick your poison if you're running a campaign in a published setting.

>> No.25336186

well i tried to think of some better ones , but they were all pretty furry, and im running on 0 caffiene, so not very creative at the moment

>> No.25336274

Pathfinder may have some kitschy little bells and whistles, like traits and shit, but they are colorful sprinkles on the same old dried turd. The amount of difference that they really make is negligible, at best.

Fantasy Craft's options feel like they fucking matter, because they're all potent, because feats and abilities and tricks are all VERY potent because they didn't design the game like they were trying to actively punish their players and keep them from making characters that are good at doing things they want to focus in.

>> No.25336290


There are plenty of good published settings. For example: Hyborian Age, Nehwon, Xoth, Middle Earth, Dark Sun, Planescape, Warhammer Fantasy.

>> No.25336349

Though I prefer Savage Worlds and 13th Age since Fantasy Craft is too rules-heavy for my group, Fantasy Craft is pretty much the best d20-inspired D&D clone. The core book just needs a bit of presentation makeover, but the rules are really good.

>> No.25336375


>Hyborian Age
This is what history is like when it's written by non-historians.

>Middle Earth
Tolkien suffered from the above problem, fond as I am of LotR.

>Dark Sun
Don't get me started.

'It's magic; I ain't gotta explain shit.'

>Warhammer Fantasy
I hope you aren't one of the people who was ripping on Golarion in favor of 'the Holy Roman Empire in fantasyland.'

>> No.25336396


>they didn't design the game like they were trying to actively punish their players and keep them from making characters that are good at doing things they want to focus in


>> No.25336497

After reading the book, im not seeing how i can make a minotaur monk. Or a Dragonborn witch, or a living construct that summons a bound spirit to fight by its side. Seriously, it reads like M&M 2e but with much worse organization and fewer options. Im still going to keep looking, but so far not impressed.

>> No.25336578

I know this has probably been asked and answered in this already, maybe, but what is the best highly roleplayable generic fantasy rpg/system /tg/?!

>> No.25336617

so far the answer seems eberron, but otherwise they wont answer. I kept trying to get them to tell me a good replacement for all the awesome that Pathfinder has as a setting but they wont answer.

>> No.25336686


> I kept trying to get them to tell me a good replacement for all the awesome that Pathfinder has as a setting but they wont answer.

Oh look this autist sperglord is back again.

>> No.25336699
File: 37 KB, 640x454, oh you!.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


> Hyborian Age is bad

Troll detected.

>> No.25336729

ive been here all along trying to get some answers out of you guys but nope, your gonna refuse to actually help me "get better". So you got an asnwer as to a better written setting that has a not!africa, not!asia, not!india, and not!europe with alien tech, high magic, grand adventure, and a fuckton of awesome monsters from all the above continent mythologies?

>> No.25336776


Best generic fantasy system IMO:

rules-heavy: Fantasy Craft

rules-lite: 13th Age, Savage Worlds.

Good settings:

generic modern fantasy: Warhammer Fantasy
steampunk fantasy: Eberron
planehopping fantasy: Planescape
high fantasy: Middle Earth, Westeros
sword & sorcery: Nehwon, Hyborian Age, Xoth, Nyumbani, Zothique, Hyperborea, Poseidonis, Mars (John Carter), Tir na nOg (Slaine), Young Kingdoms (Elric), Dark Sun.

>> No.25336797


> ctrl-f

>> No.25336841

why cant you just say it? seriously just fucking type it, and i dont know what to ctrl-f for, so that wont help. Its like you dont actually know but still want to say something.

>> No.25336844


I guess you haven't heard of Monte Cook and his Magic: the Gathering inspired design philosophy he used in developing 3e.

>> No.25336853



>> No.25336883


ctrl-f sperg-bro

>> No.25336898


+1 ctrl-f

>> No.25336906


Yeah just ctrl-f

>> No.25336932


Did you try ctrl-f?

>> No.25336950

i guess ill just ctrl-f.

>> No.25337008

Throwing this out there, for all it's faults, at least Golarion is super tolerant of GLBT things. As a gay RPG player, that's actually really encouraging.

Sure, it's got problems, but I'm okay with Golarion, it lets you tell the stories you need to. It's very much a Reconstruction, and I like that.

>> No.25337028

Wait...this is meant to be a bad thing, yes?

>> No.25337054

apparently some think its a bad thing, i thinks a awesome.

>> No.25337621

this, uh, looks like the pathfinder general.

what are some great ways to beef out kelgores gravemist?

My DM permitted me to take it on my dread necromancer.

Currently fell animate, fell drain, and a rod of frost can be active giving an unconditional 1d6 cold damage, fatigue, the loss of 1 level per round, and entanglement.

Any other idea's to twink it out? Preferably solely through pathfinder materials.

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