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[ERROR] No.25230418 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Has no one posted the Eldar codex and or the Iyandan source books yet??? If so where??? Also, new Eldar discussion.

How many people find running 6-7 Wraithguard works. I find 5 is too little as you will lose 1-3 on the way to the enemy.

>> No.25230883

I think the uploaders hate Eldar. No one has uploaded the digital version of the codex yet.

>> No.25230909

not true i got it off some thread the other day.

>> No.25230939


I think anon's being picky and asking for images from the ipad version instead of just photos.

>> No.25231278

I also only have the photos and would like to be that “picky”.

btw, source or more photos of the WL in the pic?

>> No.25231378

>How many people find running 6-7 Wraithguard works.

It works, but you've got to be very good at predicting the opponent's movements. They're so short ranged, leaving them on foot can easily see the opponent avoid them for much of the game.

I quite like 5 Wraithguard with D-Scythes and a Wraithseer in a Wave Serpent. They're able to get where they're most needed quickly, the Wraithseer offers some nice buffs, and even a single model is capable of doing a lot of damage.

>> No.25232936

>> No.25233307

Well, while waiting for someone to upload something anyway, me ask a question.

That 5–6 (sepent size) wraithguards can be also core now, is well, but is a full unit (10 WG) still interesting? Earlier, when you could simply choose fortune for a farseer, they had a way to compensate their little speed by being quite indestructible. Now they haven’t. What do they can instead?

>> No.25233402

Well an accompanying Spiritseer can give them Shrouded (Primaris power) and potentially also Protect (giving them 2+ saves) or Quicken (extra 3" running speed). Farseers have a chance to get Fortune or Forewarning for 4++ save.

>> No.25233418

Oh, and there's also Karandras to give them Stealth (and let them Outflank if you want), I suppose.

>> No.25233433

...finally, we have yet to see what wonders Ward will give Iyanden craftworld. Should contain plenty of wraithbuffs.

>> No.25233442

Does the Iyanden book have additional rules?

I don't care about the content, but I just want to know if they're going to make further mini-codices for things like Space Marine chapters.

>> No.25233455

At least some... Iyanden armies can get different HQ options, different Warlord traits, and at least one different psychic power. Looks to me like there will be rules for at least one new character as well, although I suppose that might just be fluff.

>> No.25233458

Interesting that /tg/ isn't talking about the Eldar much now the codex is actually out. Did everyone look at it, shrug, and go back to playing Tau?

>> No.25233461


The two things mentioned on the website is Wraithknight being able to be your Warlord, and one of the Warlord Traits which gives you d3 re-rolls per game for To-Hit, To-Wound rolls.

>> No.25233465


Yes. Yes it does. New Warlord traits, modified units and if I'm not mistaken, Iyenna Arienal returns as a special character.

>> No.25233470

And a Spirit Council of up to five Spiritseers as an HQ choice. MiteBfun.

>> No.25233477


So do you think we'll see further Codex Supplements down the line? This well could replace things like Blood Angels, Space Wolves and almost definitely Black Templars.

>> No.25233508


I personally pray and sacrifice to the based Dark Gods for a return of "the Lost and the Damned" army list from Codex: Eye of terror.

>> No.25233515

Certainly more in future, but I'm not sure they'll replace actual codices, except possibly Black Templars. Having different Mehreen factions makes GW money.

>> No.25233538


I would shit my pants. We might also see supplemental IG lists, like Death Korps or Elysians.


I feel like the Black Templars are almost definitely getting that treatment with the 6e Marine book.

>> No.25233595

Fortune and forwarding are each only 50% chance for a farseer zu have, and are from different psi disciplines.
Same for protect and quicken.
And shrouded they earlier had without even requiring an HQ in the unit, now they do. This isn’t something the get instead of fortune, it’s the minimum they had before and still needed fortune.

Oh, I forgot that Phoenix Lords are better in other units than in their proper aspect. My fault. ;) But an interesting idea, indeed.

Ward? Oh noes… ~.~
Earlier rumours told the supplement wouldn’t contain any actual rules. I wonder when and why they changed their mind. They probably better hadn’t. But we’ll see.

>> No.25233625

>Ward? Oh noes…
Yes, because Phil Kelly certaintly did a bang up job...

>> No.25233626

>"oh noes"

Generally not welcome on /tg/. Just a minor thing so you don't get flamed in the future. Idgaf, but some people do.

If the supplement has rules, we could see a lot of love for the Marine chapters, the more famous Guard regiments, and maybe further craftworlds. We might even see niche Ork lists come back!

>> No.25233628

>Changed their mind
You mean the rumor you read was wrong.

>> No.25233637

Yeah, it's a gamble. I'd think with two Farseers there's a decent chance of a Fortune... or go Eldrad+Farseer for maximum odds.

>> No.25233651

...mind you, Wave Serpents look useful in themselves anyway. That Serpent Shield is a pretty big gun.

>> No.25233660

You cannot know, the rumor was quite old.
May I remind you on the becoming of 6th edition?

>> No.25233675

Would be an option if you didn’t need a spirit seer for the WG to be core.

>> No.25233682

Oh yeah, true dat. Alright, maximum odds of either Fortune or Protection would be Eldrad + Spiritseer, I guess. If you're lucky you get both.

>> No.25233693

Its more likely the rumour monger got it wrong. Ether or you seemed to imply it was certain.
Also stop talking like starfire.

>> No.25233715

Yeah. So the best option for playing a fluffy Iyanden army is coosing Eldrad. ;)

(And of course I apologise for disregarding /tg/’s rules of etiquette by using a smiley.)

>> No.25233774

Why can't fluffy Iyanden armies use Wave Serpents?

>> No.25233805

Wave Serpents have changed to being damn good guntanks and mediocre transports.

Dakkapreds look at the Wave Serpent with envy.

>> No.25233808

Still not bad for non assault troops..and if you already buy them for guns..

>> No.25233829

Sure they can. But serpent armies are being discussed atm. all over, so I expect them to spread shortly and am wondering about alternatives.

Just seen though some youtube results to understand what you mean by talking like starfire. Don’t notice anything suspicious about her.
About the rumor: You seem to be very sure about what’s more likely…

>> No.25233913

I think he's using Occam's Razor. Conversely, it's strange that you are so certain that the rumour was true even when we find evidence proving it wrong.

>> No.25234153

I am not sure at all, but one has to assume something and I find the rumour quite possible to have been true. It’s not uncommon for GW to change it’s mind short time before production.
You can’t use Occam’s razor in this case, nor is there any evidence for any of the assumptions.
Anyway, the topic of who is right traditionally isn’t that interesting, so I’d like to return to the other topics.

>> No.25234245

You're right, it is pretty boring, considering GW posted a video showing the rules in the book, and that the very first thing they, or anyone else, said about the supplement was that it had rules.

I mean, what other possibility could you possibly discuss at that point without looking a complete fool?

>> No.25234348


Ah, I see, you’d like to change from a boring discussion to an even more boring meta-discussion? Or maybe stay at about whose rumour was “the very first”?
Sorry to disappoint you in either case.

>> No.25234498

Doesn't Karandras also allow them to Infiltrate, same as Illic?

>> No.25234534

Same as outflank, yes. I suppose that’s what he meant.

>> No.25234628

>Doesn't Karandras also allow them to Infiltrate
No, Infiltrate doesn't let you infiltrate units that don't have the rule, because the IC only joins the unit once it hits the board. But it does let you outflank them, because he can join them in reserve.

>> No.25235121

That's a load of crap. If that were true you would be unable to have ICs in drop pods with squads and you would be unable to deepstrike ICs with squads. Ergo as everyone and their mother knows for a fact that you can do this you are able to do the same for Illic and Karandras. FFS people have been doing it for years with Karandras, why does /tg/ only now contest it?

>> No.25235163


Because people never read the actual rules?

And did you even read his post, particularly the "he can join them in reserve" part?

>> No.25235194

Yes it does, it says so in the description of Infiltrate - you need only one model in the squad to have the Infiltrate rule for the entire squad to infiltrate.

>> No.25235195


I think Guard allies and CSM or Daemon allies is great for this, and there's always Forgeworld lists with friends and less hardcore players. It would be nice, but as they are heavily conversion based, which I'm not sure GW supports with rules again.


Death Korps or Elysians probably won't see support from GW proper.

It seems what is old is new again, with codex supps being back. It's a bit like living through a more shiny but less benevolent 2nd or middle 3rd-4th edition 40k again.

>> No.25235203

He can also infiltrate them. The only rules for infiltrate are that ICs without it cannot join units that have it.

You announce that you are deploying the IC (in this case illic or karandras) with a unit as part of a unit and declare their deployment type (regular outflank ongoing deepstrike or infiltrate whatever applies). You then deploy the unit at the relevant time.

>> No.25235257 [DELETED] 

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>> No.25235267

But Infiltrate happens AFTER everything else is deployed, even ICs.

>> No.25235358


Actually, no you can't. They can't join up with a unit before battle, they can only join up with a unit if they're both in reserve.

Rulebook pg 349: a character can join a unit at the start of the battle by being "deployed in unit coherency with it". This implies the unit is already on the table and the character is placed within 2" of at least one model. At which point it is too late for him to grant infiltration, since the unit he wants to join is already on the table.

Now if both the char and the unit have infiltrate, then there's no problem.

>> No.25235371


Pg. 39 not 349, sorry. And this concern INDEPENDANT characters. Characters bought as a "Sergeant" upgrade are not concerned.

>> No.25235418

It just as strongly implies simply being placed at the same time with the unit while being in coherency with it. Nowhere does it explicitly state that you first place the unit, and then place the IC in it. This isn't Fantasy where the heroes are placed last.

>> No.25235442

That line also implies that you cannot put an IC in reserve with a unit by the same logic that you condemn infiltrate.

Remember that nothing says that status effects cannot take effect while not deployed. Epidemius' tally still goes up while in reserves.
You are able to declare that your IC is deploying with a unit, infiltrate is simply an alternative deployment method in the style of outflank.

Otherwise there would be no reason to have the specific line that a single model with infiltrate grants it to the unit where most rules don't apply across an entire unti.

>> No.25235530

>That line also implies that you cannot put an IC in reserve with a unit by the same logic that you condemn infiltrate
Not that anon, but the rulebook covers that specifically:
>An Independent Character can begin the game already with a unit, either by being deployed in unit coherency with it or, if the unit is in reserve, by informing your opponent of which unit it has joined.

>> No.25235557

>That line also implies that you cannot put an IC in reserve with a unit by the same logic that you condemn infiltrate.

That specific point is permitted in the sentence just after that, as I mentioned in the first sentence of my post. READ THE DAMN POST, PLEASE!

>Remember that nothing says that status effects cannot take effect while not deployed. Epidemius' tally still goes up while in reserves.

This is completely different, as it concerns effects (like Epidemius' tally) that happen after initial deployment, not before it.

>Otherwise there would be no reason to have the specific line that a single model with infiltrate grants it to the unit where most rules don't apply across an entire unit

Some characters (like Longstrike, Pask, Bastonne, Harker, etc...) are bouyght as a unit upgrade. That sentence is there for them.

>> No.25235711

Does this also mean that Karandras and Illic cannot infiltrate with a unit of Striking Scorpions or Rangers? Because that's completely retarded.

Imagine Karandras infiltrates behind enemy lines with his fellow scorpion pals. BUT WAIT. He cannot go with his buddies and as he wasn't moving into contact with them in his movement phase he's in a separate unit so the enemy can hose him alone and he gets no LoS until his turn! And of course I'm not deploying him i'm infiltrating him post deployment so he isnt in the unit from that either!

Yes that totally makes sense. Shadowsun also cannot join stealth suit and as such doesn't grant them stealth and shrouded. Yup. Definitely the way this works.

>> No.25235772

>Does this also mean that Karandras and Illic cannot infiltrate with a unit of Striking Scorpions or Rangers? Because that's completely retarded.
No, because the unit has Infiltrate. Therefore both unit and IC can deploy as per Infiltrate rules, in coherency with each other.

Are you actually looking at the rulebook at all before you come up with this stuff?

>> No.25235811

Also note that as per the BRB Infiltrate takes place AFTER deployment. Note the emphasis on after. Is is not deployment and as such the unit is not deployed but rather infiltrated and ICs are unable to join them as per your interpretation.
Didn't we just say that ICs can't join units for the purposes of infiltrate?

>> No.25235856

>as per the BRB Infiltrate takes place AFTER deployment
No it doesn't. It says they're deployed last after other units have been deployed. Doesn't say
>It is not deployment
at all. In fact it refers to it as deployment.

>> No.25235875

For shits and giggles I decided to make a 1000 pt all-wraith army. I expect to lose a lot or all the time, but it'll be fun with my 10 wraithguard with d-scythes in 2 wave serpents and my spiritseer attached to a wraithblade unit in a wave serpent.

>> No.25235906

Ah, got me on that one.

>> No.25235922

I do wish a FAQ would allow it, though. Infiltrated Karandras plus 3 D-Cannons behind cover near the enemy line = all kinds of fun.

>> No.25235938

“See, But Remain Unseen: Shrike (and any models in a unit
chosen from Codex: Space Marines that he has joined before
deployment) benefit from the Infiltrate specialrule)."

Does this then indicate that Shrike cannot infiltrate a unit of Space marines as he cannot join a unit before deployment? This is copypasted from the most recent Space Marine FAQ btw.

>> No.25235955

GW has a typo in their FAQ lol (the extra bracket).

Also I believe you are about to win an internet argument Mr. Karandras + Wraithguard does not work.

>> No.25236024


I think this a "Shrike only" exception. Otherwise he'd just have "Infiltrate" and not a special rule, unique to him.

>> No.25236084

Clearly not the person I was arguing with.

That shit should be clear as day I only posted it to see if he would reconsider his earlier arguments in light of the fact that according to this FAQ article IC can join units before deploying.

My opponent under this FAQ ruling would either have to admit that ICs can join units before deployment and as such that he is wrong or that this FAQ excerpt actually does nothing and Shrike cannot infiltrate a squad of assault marines but of course is still able to outflank them.

>> No.25236324

Glorious. I'm one of the two who were saying Karandras can't Inflitrate stuff, and that looks good to me. Well found.

Now, about that D-artillery within 24" of the enemy lines...

>> No.25236390

There were two!?! I guess this is an anon board after all.

Interesting choice on your part. Hopefully the other anon chimes in. I'm honestly surprised that that convinced anyone. I didn't feel like Shrike or the FAQ was enough to stand on alone and it was kind of a last shot before conceding the field.

>> No.25236464


I'm here! But I'm with >>25236024, tbh....

If this was the way "infiltrate" was supposed to work in the first place, they would have FAQ'ed Shrike's entry to "Disregard 'See But Remain Unseen' paragraph. Shrike has the 'Infiltrate' special rule." like they have done in other FAQ's for other issues. There would be no point whatsoever in writing this out.

>> No.25236483

Damnit man. I though you were like a hardcore RAW fan and would read the rule as written which says that in the magic land where shrike can join units predeployment he can infiltrate them with him.

Curse your independent thought and free will!

In all seriousness though would you be able to elaborate further on why shrike can but karandras cannot?

>> No.25236505

It seems to make it at least arguable to me, which means you can persuade people you play with- there's lots of little inconsistencies in the rules. But as you say, it's evidence that GW thinks ICs can join units before you deploy them, and that should greenlight conferring Infiltrate.

The triple D-cannon thing might be... excessive, though. There's not really much they won't blow to hell.

>> No.25236577


well, basically, because I look at Shirke's entries in the C:SM and I see his special "See but remain unseen" rule. Then I look at Karandras' entries, and I see "Infiltrate".

Since the FAQ didn't amend "SBRU" = "Infiltrate", then I reason there must be a difference between both. Then again, this might just be incompetence on GW's part.

Know what, I'll send a mail to their FAQ adress asking the question, and asking they update their FAQ with the answer. This should makes thing clear once and for all.

>> No.25236595

>This should makes thing clear once and for all.
Try by all means, but they didn't respond last time I did that.

>> No.25236607

Which other characters have infiltrate and might have relevant FAQs? Or actual wording in their codex?

>> No.25236662

Shadowsun has infiltrate but has no relevant faq or anything
Huron gives d3 units infiltrate
Shrike karandras and illic have already been covered here.

I think that's most/everyone.

>> No.25236704

Because the FAQ specifically permits Shrike to do so. The Rulebook does no such thing for other ICs with Infiltrate. It's part of Shrike's cost.

>> No.25236709

Hmmm... so I guess one question is, do any Tau players use Shadowsun to Infiltrate stuff?

>> No.25236773

>Because the FAQ specifically permits Shrike to do so
It doesn't, though.
> Shrike (and any models in a unit chosen from Codex: Space Marines that he has joined before deployment) benefit from the Infiltrate special rule).
The emphasis isn't on ability to join units at all- it's already assumed that he can. Otherwise it would say 'Shrike can join units before deployment'.

To be honest, I think this is highly unclear and needs a FAQ.

>> No.25236822

I believe that's a holdover from 5th Ed. Or a case of the dev team writing with their 5th Ed. caps on. The point is, normally ICs don't join units before deployment anymore. Shrike's FAQ says he can.

>> No.25236833

What does /tg/ think about the Harlistar build?

Something like 10 Harlequins with Kisses, Troupe Master and Shadowseer joined by Karandras (perms-stealth at minimum) and Eldrad (4 divination powers means your going to re-rolling failed to hit and most likely able to make your opponent re-roll successful armor saves).

>> No.25236867

Shadowsun has a whole bunch of special bonuses related to being in a squad of stealthsuits. They already have infiltrate.
TH/SS terminators say hi. GK with halberds say hi.

>> No.25236908

>Shrike's FAQ says he can
Again, though, it just assumes he can. There's no rule actually saying he can.

...I'll wait for a FAQ, I think. I may be waiting some time.

Someone's got to be tempted to infiltrate a Riptide or something...

>> No.25236951


I'm not sure why I should worry about TH/SS terminators.

On the charge I have 41 S$ rending attacks. That's 36 hits (assuming re-roll failed to hits via divination), 6 of which rend, with another 15 regular wounds. My opponent fails 2 armor saves from rending (another 1 if he must re-roll successful saves), and then 2 normal saves (and another 2 if he is re-rolling saves).

That's 4-7 dead terminators before Karandras swings.

Also - why should I be concerned with Halberd GKs? Karandras kills 4 before they even swing, and the Harlequins go at the same I value.

>> No.25237124

The whole point of shrikes FAQ is to only let him infiltrate units chosen from C:SM instead of attaching him to a battle brother ally and infiltrating them. I believe that is the distinction of his FAQ

>> No.25237148

>Rulebook pg 349: a character can join a unit at the start of the battle by being "deployed in unit coherency with it".

Most people interpret this as meaning that an IC can join a unit by being deployed in unit coherency with it. If the unit in question is being deployed with a special rule (infiltration, deathwing assault) then the IC can be deployed with the unit that way.

>> No.25237187

Infiltrate takes place after deployment, but the infiltrating unit does not deploy until the infiltration step. Thus an IC deploying with a unit of infiltrators deploys during the infiltration step and must be deployed in coherency with the unit he joined.

>> No.25237282


This guy got shut the fuck up faster than I thought.

>> No.25237734 [DELETED] 

Is that an 800 point unit there?

>> No.25237782

Harliestars need Fortune to function, or else that unit is Heldrake food.

>> No.25237843 [DELETED] 

700 actually. Not too expensive. Although it does eat 2 HQ slots and all your buffs have to be going into that unit.

Divination gives 4++ save to unit. Harlies already have 5++ anyway.

Also Crimson Hunters would love to see a heldrake that isn't vector striking them.

>> No.25238037

Divination gives a 4++ to the unit as a power. 4++ are approximately the same as 2 5++ saves. 50% chance of not dying as compared to 55% chance of not dying.

Also as a heldrake's baleflamer's maximum range is about 18 we have to remember that it needs to get through veil to hurt it. 2d6x2 is the range you can hurt them from. 4-24 inches averaging out at 14" is pretty easy but it does restrict the heldrake if it rolls poorly.

>> No.25238096


Why a re-rollable 5+ versus a 4++ from divination? In the alternate - at 2k just add another farseer - you're building a deathstar so why not do it right.

>> No.25238128

The Heldrake can move 36" per turn and the flamer can come from literally any angle. Veil of Tears does fuckall against it and isn't nearly as reliable as it used to be.

You're also not guaranteed to roll Forewarning either. Do you have a plan for games where your power selection goes pear-shaped?

>> No.25238222


With 4 rolls in divination you have a 2/3rds chance to get any power of your choosing (actually slightly better due to no duplicates).

Also at 1.5k you can get a Harlistar, 2 2 man Warwalker Teams with Scatter Laser and Flak Missile and 3 Jetbikes with Warlocks with Singing Spears.

>> No.25238263

At 1.5k I can field between 7 and 9 venoms, 16-18 lance weapons and a plane. Why should I be worried?

>> No.25238307

If that 5+ is a cover, then a 5+ rerollable against any attack that doesn't ignore cover, comes out as slightly more effective (statistically) than a 4++. Though a cover save is negated easier.

>> No.25238336


Because we were discussing what to do if I played against a Helldrake? But if you'd like to move goal posts again please do.

Alternatively - why would I be worried about your lances in the slightest - I have no vehicles and I'm actually faster than via jet-bikes (who are able to bring down your venoms via cannons). Lance Spam is an awful list for a reason.

>> No.25238350

I want to start Eldar, what are some good start builds with the new codex? Should I use the vanilla codex or the Iyandan one? Also, are Ulthwe builds viable with the new update?

>> No.25238372


You'll need the regular codex to use the Iyanden supplement first. Second no one knows much about the Iyanden supplement since it isn't out for 2 or so weeks.

>> No.25238454

>Also, are Ulthwe builds viable with the new update?
What part of WS 4, BS 4, Initiative 5, Rending for 9 points, do you not understand? Kelly loves his Ulthwe. This codex shows that.

>> No.25238541

So /tg/ I fucking love Warp Spiders - how usable are they? I don't play in a super competitive area and we tend to play at around 1500 points. My normal opponents are a Necron player (only 1 flyer, the transport one), 2 CSM players (one takes 1 Heldrake), a smattering of Imperial Allies guys (lots of SM, IG, DA, and Wolves all palling around in various groupings), one Tau player, and 1 Dark Eldar player.

>> No.25238590

Sweet, what should I get to start my Ulthwe army?

>> No.25238671

Why don't you buy it?

Oh right, Gee Dub is Evil. I forgot. Also, don't use multiple ? it doesn't make your question any more important or anybody more eager to answer it.

As for the Iyanden Supplement, it isn't even OUT yet. You would know this if you weren't constantly looking to pirate it. It's out on the 8th.

Wraithguard can go in Transports IIRC.

But there we go, I am going to use your thread to ask questions so thanks for that.

I have a rules question about Jain Zar.... She has Silent Death which has both the Assault 4 shooting rule AND a melee stat line (which is just melee) she then has Blade of Destruction, which does have a melee stat of User, AP2 and Melee, Shred. That means she has two melee weapons, neither of which is a specalist weapon OR two-handed, so doesn't she get an Extra Attack then? Making her A:5 (A:6 on charge as well as making the unit she charged -5WS and -5 Initiative to min of 1).

Also, if you put a character into a unit that has Stealth, does the character also get Stealth? I ask because you can make a units of Alaitoc Pathfinders if you put Illic Nightspear in your army and Stealth is only on Rangers and not Nightspear.

Also, it says "any number of Eldar Rangers units can be upgraded to Alaitoc Pathfinders at an additional cost of 13 points per model" - Does that mean a squad is 60 points for first 5 then 13 for each additional model after? Or is it 60 plus 25 per model? Or is it 65 points for the first 5 then +13 or is it 125 for first 5+25 per each model?

Sorry. I am confused by the wording. Plus I am very tired.

>> No.25238715

Yes jain zar gets bonus attacks from her extra weapon.

Eldar Pathfinders are 25 points a pop and you have to go back and pay an extra 13 points for the first 5 because you're upgrading the whole unit.

>> No.25239050

>Huron gives d3 units infiltrate

On a related note (as this thread seems to have a fair share of rules-savvy anons and lots of arguing about the nuances of Infiltrate), can Huron's Master of Deception warlord trait be applied to jump infantry or just standard footsloggers?

>> No.25239121

Anything with the words infantry in its type. Namely not vehicles or MCs.

>> No.25239133

>Also, if you put a character into a unit that has Stealth, does the character also get Stealth?

Stealth is one of those "if at least one model has it, the whole unit has it" USRs.

>> No.25239160

Question still remains.

Nightspear has Shrouded but not Stealth. However Rangers do have Stealth. Does that mean if he joins a group of Rangers he gets Stealth? Next question is, doesn't Shrouded get applied to the squad he joins? So, if put him in a 10 man Ranger squad, they'd both have Stealth and Shrouded?

The next question is, is 225 for a 10 man squad of Alaitoc Pathfinders worth it? They get Shrouded (but that's for all units, even if he isn't with them if my thoughts are right) AND all shots they do are Precision Shots.

>> No.25239175

They are super fucking hilarious trolls. The amount of movement they can put out is completely ridiculous, and their guns don't suck. I think that if you put an Autarch with them, they might make an excellent flanking close-combat unit, but right now they're just above decent, below amazing.

>> No.25239238


I was thinking of a unit of 7 Spiders + Exarch with Fast Shot and the Spinneret Rifle + an Autarch with a warp jump generator, fusion gun and possibly a power weapon (though I'd probably skip that and just stick to the unit as an Anti all kinds of things via shooting type unit).

>> No.25239249


Shrouded/stealth are conferred on the whole unit. They are also cumulative with each other (i.e. +3 to your cover save if you have both).

>> No.25239272

Skip the Exarch. You can get more models in the squad for his cost. Remember that their shots are AP1 on rolls of 6 to wound or penetrate armor.

>> No.25239372

Someone post the damn dex already.

>> No.25239407

Bumping my question for best Craftworld.

>> No.25239451


>> No.25239457

Do you not know anything about Ulthwe? Their focus has been an actual army of Guardians (not militia), and seers up the ass. Farseers, Guardians, Warlocks, whatever the fuck else you feel like taking. Paint the black with bone. Done. Nobody cares otherwise unless GW decides to continue this 'craftworld supplement' shtick.

>> No.25239503

Okay so two boxes of guardians, two wave serpants, and a farseer with warlocks?

>> No.25239525

It looks like they might continue releasing supplements, if the Iyanden trailer is anything to go by.

>> No.25239732

It's not moving the goalposts at all. We were discussing a particular unit, then you posted an army list. Now we're discussing the viability of that.

Incidentally, it has even more problems against Heldrakes than just the Harliestar alone.

>> No.25239788

Too many points in one unit not enough of anything else. They run 2x3 bikes, 2x2 walkers and that star and I respond by throwing out 2+ pieplates per turn on top of waaay more firepower than 12 models with 2+/4++ can handle (don't forget weapons that ignore cover like dscythes and serpent fields because you sure as hell ain't shooting me down.

>> No.25240104

Somebody learn to go looking for it yourself. If you want to steal, go do it yourself and stop bugging people here.

Thought so. So, if I made one unit of Pathfinders and put Nightspear on it, I am paying 13 points extra, so 225 in total, for the ability for all of them to shoot Precession Shots, get Infiltrate and giving Nightspear Stealth. That's because the Pathfinder upgrade gives them Shrouded, but as it's given by Nightspear....

So, is it worth it? That is the question. Normal Rangers, which is 130 for 10, give Nightspear Stealth and get Infiltrate, which is great. Nightspear himself is brilliant. Every shot is Precision, he has BS9, the Voidbringer might be Strength: 3 and AP2 but Distort is pretty damn good. 6's automatically wound non-vehicles and cause Instant Death regardless of Toughness. On vehicles a 6 causes a penetrating hit regardless if the roll was enough.

Pretty good. Also has Splitfire so he can snipe a character when his group can rape another unit. Shame he doesn't have Fast Shot. Fugaen and Muegan Ra are pretty awesome.

Not only does Fuegan get +1S to his Melee, so Strength 5 and AP1 with Armourbane is amazing. He also gets two shots with his Firepike. Maugan Ra gets Assault 4(5) Pinning, Rending weapon (Precision on 5+) then if he gets stuck in melee he has 4 attacks at Strength 6 AP3. Not great. But, is Relentless another Universal rule? If it is, Dark Reapers can run then shoot.

>> No.25240162

IMO not worth it. Nightspear isn't even worth 140 because his gun still only wounds on 4+ and fires one shot and hes an elf with a power sword in melee.

As I don't think Pathfinders are all that great I'm not going to field him. Maybe against crons he's okay but still not great.

>> No.25240171


Doomscythes do not ignore cover.

>> No.25240196


I think he meant D-Scythes as in the new Wraithguard weapon. That said Wraithguard are going to get MAULED by any dedicated CC unit - much less a deathstar type.

>> No.25240211


You realize the Harlequins can very likely catch your Wave Serpent and will kill it in close combat right? Not the anon you are arguing with but Halrequins or Karandras are amazing vehicle hunters. What they suffer against is large hordes of models.

>> No.25240252

He means d-scythes, the new S4 AP2 Instant Death on 6s flamer gun that Wraithguard get now.

Pretty much my thoughts. Yes, the list has a tough nut to crack, but everything else is super fragile. And you can't keep all of it in reserve like you used to be able to. That means something gets crushed and then the rest of the army focuses on the deathstar until it's gone.

>> No.25240289

Harlies move about 6+rerollabled6. I can move My wave Serpent 12 or more per turn depending on how concerned I am about distances.
If you charge and fail you're only moving at most 6" on that turn. How do you catch vehicles that outrun you and can still fire?

>> No.25240313


The list bad but not because of the reasons you've listed. The list is bad because it cannot win objective based gaming - in an vacuum where objectives aren't considered it's a solid enough list. The star is supremely durable and vapes most things it touches and is generally fast enough to get to you (particularly with terrain) before you can stop it.

>> No.25240351


Because at any point that you move beyond 12" you can only fire one weapon.Also it isn't as though Wave Serpents are terribly difficult to gun down, especially for another Eldar army (gogo massed S6 and 7 spam).

>> No.25240401

I mean 3x 4 Jetbikes w/ 2+ jink isn't terrible for holding objectives. You just need to reserve them, hide like Jimmy Hoffa, and Turbo Boost onto objectives turn 5. Then hope you can't be killed off quickly or that the game doesn't go to turn 6.

>> No.25240426

Is there any new and interesting lore?

>> No.25240490

It's more of the fact that he can be placed anywhere on the table, no matter how close to the unit, then any Outflanking Rangers and Pathfinders can Deep Strike in. All the shots are Precision. So that means on Turn 1, Nightspear can target any Character. His unit then deepstrikes in, no scatter, if he can target them, so can they, which means they can target a unit and kill/damage it. Plus, if they are Pathfinders, that's Precision shots too. Plus Stealth and Shrouded. That's pretty survivable especially if they are in cover.

>> No.25240549

Yeah but that unit is fucked by the first flamer to get within range. That's a LOT of points to go down the tubes.

>> No.25240577

>suddenly we're playing a 2000+ game
Okay now I'm sure that shit isn't getting anywhere.

So I can only fire one gun, You can't even hurt me. I can move up to 30" a turn so I don't even care about a corner. I can ignore you all day dude. You don't even have the firepower to threaten me. 6 bikes and 4 war walkers may not even exist for you because they're probably dead or running away turn 1/2 (aka when your harlies are hiking it across the field) and beyond that I just move away from the slow unit of harlequins.

Deepstriking means movement. Enjoy snapshotting rifles.

>> No.25240897

True. But if you forget Pathfinders and go for Rangers, they still have Shrouded and Stealth just no Precision shots. For 130 points, if you can take out some Heavy Weapon teams or similar, you can save lives later. Plus, 5+++ in Open Ground and 3+++ in foliage, 2+++ in heavy cover. Still good I think. Remember they are using long range rifles, flamers are not going to be in range for 2 turns.

Not a problem, you just keep to normal Infiltrate rules and don't Deep Strike them in. Just do it normally and there we go. Just put them in some ruins or fortifications and let them shoot the fuck out of opponents as they advance.

>> No.25241042

You're infiltrating them, which means you're likely getting closer to the enemy. Also, Heavy Weapon Teams don't give a fuck these days what with 2+ cover of their own from ADL and orders to ignore Gone To Ground in their own turn.

>> No.25241162

Ranger sniper rifles are heavy 1, good luck hitting anything after deepstriking with those snap shots.

>> No.25241297

Right guys. I've been magnetising the new wraithguard but it has so far only been with the ranged weaponary.

I doubt it will work very well with the close combat weapons (gravity is too strong for the magnets and the pieces are too heavy).

So what combo should I go?

The AP3 Swords, or the AP2 Axes with 4+ invul?

>> No.25241316

The axes are worth it for the 4++ alone.

>> No.25241355

Yeah but I've been thinking, what are the axes actually going to kill?

Might as well just stick with the 12" cannon.

At least with the swords they make a good counter MEQ assault squads, or bikers if you can reach em.

>> No.25241415

The swords aren't going to kill any MEQ unit faster or better than D-scythes will either if that's your reasoning.

>> No.25242196

Given the new update, what would be a good starting list (around 500 to 1000 pts), preferably aspect light?

>> No.25242595

>Implying I don't know

I've already said you don't -have- to use Path of the Hidden or whatever it is.

Yeah, I know, but you don't have to use Nightspears ability to go anywhere, even right on top of a unit you can Infiltrate them in a ruin or fortification or objective right in the middle of the board and fire from there. The unit doesn't Deep Strike because they've not come from Outflanking, you just use normal Infiltrate rules for both the Rangers and Nightspear. Plus, using Sniper you can pick out Flamers and so on before they get to you. Or retreat or hold up, either way. 3++ in ruins I think.

I agree, the Axes + Shield is great, plus they can go in Wave Serpents and stuff. Which means getting them into combat faster. If you also have a Spirit Seer they count as Troops, so you get a nice objective holding unit.

>> No.25243323

deployment is anytime a unit is deployed on the board, be it from reserve, during actual deployment.. or any other time. Believe it was 5th SM faq..

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