[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / g / ic / jp / lit / sci / tg / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports / report a bug ] [ 4plebs / archived.moe / rbt ]

/vt/ is now archived.Become a Patron!

/tg/ - Traditional Games

View post   

[ Toggle deleted replies ]
File: 70 KB, 391x533, ImperiousPerfect.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
25006501 No.25006501 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

In a perfect world...

>new Lorwyn block announced!
>this time it's a standard 3-set block, 2 big 1 small
>heavy tribal focus returns
>introduces 5 new Planeswalkers to replace the original 5
>Jace, Chandra, et all are relegated to side-character status

Your turn.

>> No.25006514

that's a really weird and specific thing to want but ok.

>> No.25006533

free space marines

raining from the heavens

all of them are painted in howling griffon colors

>> No.25006577

There is no such thing as STDs and girls only ovulate once they actually intend to get pregnant.

>> No.25006609

>win the lottery, get a shitton of cash
>use it to fund the shit out of games and comics that appeal to my interests
>live out the rest of my days playing games

>> No.25006637

This was my dream as well. I spent like $70 on lottery tickets when the Powerball was at $600 million.

>> No.25006674

>new zendikar block
>phyrexians invade
>jace gets killed and venser gets reanimated
>life is good

>> No.25006686

Magic related
Original Dual lands reprinted
Reprints of all good expensive cards out of print
Free Moxen and Loti for all

>> No.25006693

First off, all GW merch would be at half its current cost, across the board.

The armies for both versions of Warhammer would be balanced, with all books being released fairly close to one another. FAQs would be written literally days after a problem had been found.

GW would actually care about making cool models and a fun game rather than making money.

>> No.25006695

But what about the Eldrazi?

>> No.25006743

Eldrazi are way too broken IMO. However phyrexians + eldrazi would be kinda interesting.

>> No.25006749

Wizards comes up with a better mechanic than lands that takes some of the luck out of the game while retaining the balancing effect, like consistent turn/phase based mana generation.

For a game to evolve, it must rely less and less on chance and more and more on the brilliance of its players.

And decks would stop being so damn fat. I'd save a fortune on sleeves.

>> No.25006782

I'm down for this. I fucking love tribal shit, and I'm down for new interesting planeswalkers

>> No.25006786
File: 37 KB, 506x337, 1273876357380.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

A world where I'm not me.

>> No.25006793

Yes because land configuration has nothing to do with strategy or skill.

>> No.25006813

The lands you use are part of the strategy. Taking them away takes away a layer of complexity and makes the game more simplistic.

>> No.25006815

wizards re-does design of the colors and makes spells that arnt aweful.
Blue gets a ponder/preordain like cantrip that isnt horrible and wont be banned in modern.
Reprints legacy staples in special edition decks and specialty products.
Modern Masters wasnt a limited run after all.
Retracts reserved list and put in a better reprint policy, removing original duels from the reprint list.

>> No.25006829


You might like The Spoils.

>> No.25006838

Maybe just replace basic lands. You could accrue land counters and set limits on how many of each colour you'd get at the beginning to the game.

Which introduces spells that alter your land limit.

>> No.25006848

That game rotted through the shelves at my LGS, I'm surprised anyone actually played it.

>> No.25006870

>and more on the brilliance of its players.
You mean the brilliance of one player that everyone then copies his decklist.

>> No.25006885

Youve never played weenies or infect have you? Altering your numbers of land is a huge deal for some archetypes. You'd litter ally remove a lot of the strategy in deck building and by doing so change effectiveness of certain decks. Its a bad idea, plain and simple.

>> No.25006887


I got into it at Gencon last year and had a blast.

You are right about the player base being tiny as hell though, but then again any TCG that's not Magic or based off of a Japanese show normally usually does.

>> No.25006888

>spells that alter your land limit
Sort of like spells that destroy lands?
Your idea is terrible. Let it go.

>> No.25006906

>implying destroying lands is bad
So im guessing that you play standard only and hate control?

>> No.25006921

I guess. I really just wanted to cut down on deck sizes and reduce the likelihood of unplayable first hands.

>> No.25006936

I don't think he was implying that at all, simply that the idea of control by limiting resources already exists.

>> No.25006938

That wasn't the implication at all. The idea was put forward that no more basic lands should be used and that spells that limit the number of lands you can use be introduced.
Those spells already exist in the form of many land-destruction cards and they exist without changing the way the game is played.
Get some reading comprehension.

>> No.25006963

Construct your deck to reduce the chance of unplayable hands. Stop trying to shoot for a 12th turn win when you could be shooting for a 3rd or 4th turn win.

>> No.25006984

Overcoming bad hands and such is part of the game. You have to design your decks in such a way that your strategy is more likely to be successful than not.
Look at the recent Pro Tour. Wescoe won 3-0 despite having 2 bad opening hands. His deck was beautifully constructed and his game plan was thoroughly effective.

>> No.25006997

The same steep mana curves you're talking about would continue to fail under the land counters mechanic.

>> No.25007010

Oh god I hated lorwyn. It was like WotC was litterally force feeding me decks. Fuck that shit.

I'd love Planar Chaos 2.0
and it will never happen

>> No.25007046

>It was like WotC was litterally force feeding me decks
You can't spell literally and you don't even know what it means.
Your opinion is invalid.

>> No.25007048


WotC starts sanctioning EDH, takes control of the banned list in-house. Does not hire Sheldon Menery.

WotC fires Ken Nagle.

WotC eliminates Mythic rarity and backtracks a bit on NWO.

WotC prints flavorful and aggressively-costed counterspells in all five colors (black counters creatures, red counters things targeting their spells, etc.).

WotC removes the Reserved List, starts gradually reprinting important cards in an annual not-so-limited Masters Edition, each of which will contain cards chosen from a four-year span. Every booster pack contains an apology from whoever decided that Modern would become Super Standard instead of becoming the replacement for Legacy they promised it would be.

WotC sends me twenty copies of every card they print and complete uncut card sheets (foil and nonfoil, all rarities) as soon as they're off the presses.

>> No.25007080


>WotC prints flavorful and aggressively-costed counterspells in all five colors

I remember you.

You're ideas are still shit.

>> No.25007127

The guy's right though. Tribal support is one thing, but the Lorwyn-era tribal decks were just so... obvious. For people who actually enjoy deckbuilding, Lorwyn/Shadowmoor didn't just take a huge dump on the perfection of Rav/Tsp Standard, but it also ushered in the least creative era of deckbuilding in the game. We went almost uninterrupted from Faeries to 5CC to Jund to Caw-Blade. Three and a half years of absolutely brain-dead metagames, all started by the success of Lorwyn/Shadowmoor.

>You're ideas
And you apparently failed to graduate grade school.

>> No.25007164


>WotC prints flavorful and aggressively-costed counterspells in all five colors (black counters creatures, red counters things targeting their spells, etc.).

Oh god no

>> No.25007245

Hey now, maybe he was being philosophical and trying to say "You're ideas and are still shit", but in his rush to type he dropped the "and". I mean, you could interpret a person as being merely a collection of ideas within the shell of a body.

Yes this is sarcasm, for those unable to tell.

>> No.25007280

>Rav/Tsp Standard
My god....I had forgotten about that....

It was glorious.

>> No.25007284

>Phyrexia attempt to invade Lorwyn
>We get more cool Lorwyn art
>We get more cool phrexian designs
>Phyrexian mana + Hybrid mana + colour matters mechanics
>The lorwyn elves, whos whole thing was trying to eliminate the ugly/eyeblights, are attracted to phyrexian ideas of perfection, defect to the phyrexian forces.
>Despite this, Lorwyn is victorious and drives Phyrexia back
>We get a Green White Kithkin planeswalker

>> No.25007297


Actually it was just a typo. It happens.

>> No.25007309

>phryexia wins again
we get hybrid phryexian mana

>> No.25007330

I enjoy deckbuilding, but I think that Lorwyn/Shadowmoor was a really fun and flavorful block.

Honestly I find a lot of the cards to be useful outside of their tribes, and even with the obvious applications of many of them, it's fun to see how they interact with earlier and later cards of the same tribal type.

>> No.25007334

>Magic rules restructured:
>Most lands now eliminated. Instead, once per turn, a player may lay a card face down from his hand and treat it as a land that can tap for color of mana, to be specified upon laying it down.
>Utility lands still allowed, may be laid down as land drop instead of normal facedown card.

>> No.25007338

>The lorwyn elves, whos whole thing was trying to eliminate the ugly/eyeblights, are attracted to phyrexian ideas of perfection

The people obsessed with beauty and perfection would ally with the disgusting and malformed parasites?

>> No.25007344

Oh Christ almighty, no. That's getting to the point where it might as well be colorless.

>> No.25007363


So you netdeck something and NEVER EVER EVER change it?
Netdecking is a base, the next step is adjusting existing decks to fit your meta.

>> No.25007368
File: 271 KB, 571x800, 1369094942031.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Phyrexians can be beautiful, too...

>> No.25007373

That is a horrible idea. What would be the advantage over the current system? It's change for the sake of change.

>> No.25007383

So the game as it is?


>> No.25007396

It would drastically lower the cost of entry into any format while increasing strategy.

>Hmm, do I pitch my force of will to land, or my Wrath of God?

>> No.25007423

Yeah, 'cause it's the expensive basic land cards that are keeping poorfags from playing MTG.
Are you actually this stupid?

>> No.25007428

Give me a Lorwyn merfolk planeswalker and take my money.

>> No.25007429


I'm going to keep saying this, but The Spoils is already a thing that is exactly like this.

Or WoW TCG even.

>> No.25007445

That was one of my favorite things about WOWTCG. It was an interesting mechanic.

>> No.25007455

This wouldn't replace only basics. It would replace duels as well. Any land that's only value is manafixing would have no value in the new system, or at least not enough value to justify running it over a card that can manafix and do stuff. If you think it's only basics, you're the one who is stupid my friend.

>> No.25007459

WotC did it first with Duel Masters and Hecatomb.

>> No.25007466
File: 2.85 MB, 5000x5000, you are not ready, my son.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>tfw there is a U/G Merfolk Planeswalker that they never bothered to make a card for
>tfw U/G still hasn't gotten a Planeswalker

>> No.25007488

GW stops raping their customers in the wallet.

Someone give GW real competition, forcing growth into the market

Same for Magic

D&D Next is just Dungeon World with WotC's budget behind the art.

I find 5 unoped boxes of Limited Alpha on the way to pick up my blowjob powered robot

>> No.25007490


I still have two Hecatomb starter decks I picked up because they look neat that I never got around to playing. Maybe I'll get a chance to play them someday.

>> No.25007492


>Believing worthwhile regional metas exist in most countries

Nah. 80% of the 'meta' consists of netdecks without any tuning, and the other 19.999% is just sad.

>> No.25007493

It sounds like it worked well in those games.

>> No.25007498

He can't into a reliable mana base so he wants to re-work the rules so that the Christmasland where he always has the appropriate lands in his hand become a reality.

I'm all for dual lands becoming more prevalent and easier for new players to acquire. If it weren't for the craziness that would happen in drafts, I'd be happy seeing them at uncommon level.

The proposed changes in >>25007334 are just shit though.

>> No.25007505

>in my head this idea is complex and amazing!
>why are so stupid that you can't see how amazing this idea is in my head?

Explain your ideas properly next time, fagget.
How would you replace the exceedingly useful utility of dual lands, fetch lands and shock lands? Everything works like basic land? What?

>> No.25007524
File: 203 KB, 375x523, PES.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Phyrexian Eldrazi Slivers

Real slivers

>> No.25007525


Honestly this is probably the best era for cheap dual lands. We've been getting pretty decent common and uncommon duals, the M10 series of dual lands is balls cheap by now, and even the rare duals aren't quite so crazy expensive.

>> No.25007528

Dual lands are exceedingly useful because they ensure access to two types of mana. You get the same surety in the facedown system as you would with dual lands, because you choose the mana the facedown cards will produce. In other words, you get exactly what you need.

>> No.25007545

It's ok, Anon. I love you. And you.

>> No.25007547


Well, here at least we have a city-related meta. Lots of scapeshift and Kiki-Jiki, and you can find 5-6 different versions of them.

>> No.25007562

So could I just say that the card I'm placing face down can produce all 6 types of mana?
Your idea is shit. Let it go. Your mana is part of your deck and your strategy. If you can't into lands then you can't into MTG.

>> No.25007575

It worked well for those games because those games were built from the beginning with that mechanic as the assumption. A nontrivial amount of cards out there care about lands, and people have a lot of money tied up in dual lands. Now, I'm more than happy to fuck over collectors by removing the Reserved List, but the vast majority of people dicked over by this change would be people who scrambled for their Ravnica shocks and their Zendikar fetches, all of which would then be worthless in a landless MTG.

This would be a change that would outright kill the game.

>> No.25007579

Anybody can put the proper amount of lands in their deck. And no. I said this in the first post: You choose a type of mana that land can produce. A meaning singular.

If you're going to deliberately misunderstand it, then don't even bother trying to argue against it.

>> No.25007599

>How would you replace the exceedingly useful utility of dual lands, fetch lands and shock lands? Everything works like basic land? What?

>fetch lands
The only utility they'd retain would be the deck thinning aspect. Why bother fetching a land when you can play ANYTHING that provides precisely the color you need. Sure you can fetch a shockland, but that is far less useful when every card in your hand is potentially exactly the basic land you need.

>all other duals
Well, for a short while the duals would allow you some more flexibility in available colored mana, but after a few turns you'll have been able to play enough cherry-picked colored 'not-lands' that every spell in your deck might as well have been colorless.

Its like that guy wants to take half the skill of building a deck and throw it out the window. What he's suggesting would allow decks to operate that would stress even the greediest mana bases of today. The game would devolve into 5c goodstuff everywhere. Why even bother with the colors at that point?

>> No.25007603

Fair enough. Maybe start it out as a separate format. Let people move slowly into it with tournament support. Eventually, it probably becomes more popular, because now nobody has to buy at least 80 dollars worth of duals to make a tournament worthy deck. If you give people enough time to adapt, they'll have enough time to sell off their duals and be less fucked over.

>> No.25007610


Girls should only ovulate when I intend to get them pregnant, should be what you mean.

>> No.25007630


The idea isn't really a new one. If there was enough interest there would already be more people playing this format.

>> No.25007634

>I want to have to reduce the effectiveness of my deck to turn anything into lands and put token on fucking everything to keep track of what's what because just putting land card in my deck is tough stuff
Fucking die in a fire.

>> No.25007658

It isn't tough to craft a manabase. It's expensive. You seem to be confusing price of entry with a steep learning curve.

>> No.25007673


Wotc stops being greedy jews and get rid of mythic and 50 dollar rares


Wizard gets rid of the no reprint policy list

I have 2 of the original power 9, but I find it silly that I'm forced to hold onto these cards because I can't trade them.

>> No.25007714

>Hey guys, I really like MtG but wish it worked exaclty like Duel Masters, another card game produced by WotC which died off a few years ago. Why cant WotC see the brilliance of my idea?

>> No.25007733

I'm fucking agreeing with you man. The 'everything is a not-land' idea is pants on head retarded.

I was just pointing out how the raw color fixing made possible by the 'not-lands' would rival if not exceed the capabilities of most dual lands. If that atrocity were to be made true, there would be little to no reason to run any dual lands in any deck.

People usually run duals so that they can consistently have the colors they need and they bite the bullet with the drawbacks on their duals so that they don't need to sacrifice tempo.

With the 'not-lands', you are perpetually in a christmasland where you always have precisely the right colors at your disposal, never miss a land drop, and never have to sacrifice tempo. Why don't we just cherry pick our opening hands while we're at it?

>> No.25007734

>thinking that WotC sells single cards

>> No.25007764

Some of us don't want every deck forever to become 5-color goodstuff.

>> No.25007781

WotC current other card gamed aimed at a younger market, Kaijudo, also uses the any card can be a 'land' card rule.

>> No.25007805


>> No.25007844

That video made me sick.

>> No.25007916

>trading the power away

>> No.25007971


Just sell them then.

>> No.25008014

Wizards does whatever they need to do to insure that the price of any given card in the secondary market doesn't exceed $5. That's all I want. Needing 4 copies of a ~$100 card to even begin to play some formats is just fucking absurd. I really wouldn't be surprised if they started adding "call 1900wizardsofthecoast" to a planeswalker's activation cost at this point.

>> No.25008043

That would be the death of so many local card shops.

>> No.25010969

For Magic, no more mythic rares!

>> No.25013784

People need to stop bitching about mythics. They haven't changed the game so every deck is nothing but $100 mythics and they haven't made older cards inadequate. All they did was make it so rare cards no longer span the gamete of "useless in every format" to "OMG what were they thinking this card completely dominates every format".

>> No.25013891

Modern Masters sells at regular retailer price and wizards gives collectors the middle finger

>> No.25016479

>New Lorwyn block
>Standard 3-block set
>Heavy tribal focus
I guess it really is summer!
who cares?

>> No.25016634

>The price for full art lands from Unhindged and Zendikar drop
>Land destruction becomes a thing again with red/green
>Black becomes playable again without having to splash

>WotC prints flavorful and aggressively-costed counterspells in all five colors (black counters creatures, red counters things targeting their spells, etc.).

>> No.25016792

>I guess it really is summer!
>implying tribal mechanics aren't a staple of MTG
>implying not liking elves, slivers, allies, etc makes you an expert
>implying you're not a raging casual

>> No.25016820

>Defending Lorwyn block
Who's the casual?

>> No.25016848

>implying Lorwyn was the only time tribes were utilized
Look at the casual on this fag!

>> No.25016855

I just wanted Slivers to stay dead. Now every Johnny down in plebsville is going to run them.
Worst part is, it doesn't looks like any other tribe is going to make as big of a deal.

>> No.25016970

>standard 3-set block, 2 big 1 small
Er, no? Standard 3-set block is one large set, followed by two small sets.

It is also important to note that, after the Great Aurora, Lorwyn and Shadowmoor no longer alternate over long periods of time. We don't know the exact nature of the fusion, but there is no longer the massive shift that led to the two small blocks. Lorwyn and Shadowmoor are now one world.

So, we're looking at a Large-Small-Small block, which focuses on tribal and hybrid mana. The tribal focus would probably be less than in original Lorwyn, as Shadowmoor was more successful in market research, but still present.

Planeswalkers are a limited resource, so we probably wouldn't get five new ones in one block. There would, in fact, be strong pressure to have at least one of the Lorwyn Five return, much as Return to Ravnica revisited some of the same guild leaders. At a guess, Ajani (looking for peace after the events of Alara) and Garruck (looking for peace after dealing with his curse).

The real question, of course, is whether the tribal type would return. The decision during Innistrad was that it can get too pervasive, but there's the obvious counterargument that it was a large part of what made Lorwyn unique.

Persist, kinship, chroma, and clash would not return, and I'd have my doubts about wither. That means a lot of mechanical space is undefined, and it really rides on what the central conflict of the block would be.

>> No.25017022

>WotC prints flavorful and aggressively-costed counterspells in all five colors (black counters creatures, red counters things targeting their spells, etc.).
Ah! I see you're one of those people who doesn't enjoy Magic and wants it to die. Very clever, pretending to be someone who cared about the game.

>> No.25017445

>heavy tribal focus returns
>I want the game to be Yugioh
I'd rather be creative with making my decks, thanks, not be forced to put together shitty archetype decks that only do one thing ever.

>> No.25017580
File: 120 KB, 640x496, 6134757048_6ca67e60e3_z.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>"Tribals can only do one thing ever!"
>What is synergy
>What is non-block constructed

>> No.25017635

>WUB venser

All my money

>> No.25017897

>Implying that Tezzeret doesn't scavenge bits of Venser onto himself

>> No.25018058

>Implying Johnny likes linear mechanics
Tribal stuff is meant for Timmy, with a side of Spike if it's pushed far enough. Johnny steers the fuck away from tribal decks for the most part.

Ah! I see you're one of those people that thinks it's a good idea for the long-term health of the game that interacting with spells on the stack is the primary domain of a single color! Maybe when you get tired of every match boiling down to Creatures: The Attacking you'll give the idea another chance.

>> No.25018278

Venser and Tezzeret are my favorite planeswalkers, both of them merged into one would be perfection

>> No.25018428

>In a perfect world...
Wizards use the Planar Chaos colorshifted design. That's all.

Ok, not all, we get another Time Spiral.

>> No.25018654

I just got the synergy here.
In a perfect world, you want more Lorwyn and you used the 'Imperious Perfect.' Pretty clever, OP.

But you're still a fag.

>> No.25018778

Not in the eyes of the elves.

There would be some convinced, be sure of that, but most of them would rather all Phyrexia purged and boggarts get to sniff the pantry than to let those monsters dictate "perfection". Elves see elves as perfection on Lorwynn, simple as that. Well, there's also the GW elves that wanted to protect beauty from darkness and evil so that's really not helping phyrexian elves...

>> No.25018844

The g/w elves were the elves of Shadowmoor. That is, the elves of the plane after the Aurora hit.

Seeing as Lorwyn has returned to its ordinary day/night cycle and the Aurora is a thing of the past, it's probably safe to say that all the races of Lorwyn are back to the way they were before things got all Brothers Grimm on the plane.

>> No.25018849

I might have some form of autism because every time I read dual lands NOT referencing the set of lands that were literally two lands in one, thus the name, I cringe a little.

>> No.25018892

...Wait what if they made an enchantment/planeswalker emblem/artifact/legendary creature ability that allowed us to exile a card from our hand to put in a token basic land of our choosing?


>> No.25018932

The new Sliver art direction is scrapped and the persons responsible hanged.

Kamigawa is revisited, and in a way that does it justice.

Another Time Spiral set where they make a proper Karona.

Neowalkers all meet terrible ends, and the planeswalker card type ceases to be.

>> No.25018940

Modern Masters 2 having a FAR larger print run with the explicit intent to put the cards in more hands. They're allowed to save face saying "Not every staple is in!" and "We figure the negatives of having the market react to an influx of quantity is heavily outweighed by the benefits of having more people taking part in the format."

>> No.25018973

NISSA! She would totally show up for those elves. Garruk would likely head off somewhere else.

>> No.25018994

>Ah! I see you're one of those people that thinks it's a good idea for the long-term health of the game that interacting with spells on the stack is the primary domain of a single color!
You're talking about taking Blue's one form of removal and giving it to every color.

I think that the colors should get DIFFERENT forms of stack interaction. However, even if they do not, counterspelling should remain primarily blue. Things like Guttural Response? Fine. Red or green having a counterspell that doesn't realistically boil down to "Counter target counterspell"? Not fine.

>> No.25018995
File: 193 KB, 461x487, 1335508595765.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

All lands are printed at uncommon or common, so that land cost i no longer double the price of the rest of a fucking deck

>> No.25018999

I would HIGHLY doubt that since we didn't see Shadowmoor melt away. If anything I'd be hesitant to say Lorwynn came back at all, though I'd imagine the two merged to some degree.

>> No.25019007

>good idea for the long-term health of the game
It's gone twenty years without it being a problem. I think we're good.

>> No.25019008

I think MM is getting a way larger print run than WotC and online retailers are saying. My LGS is getting so many that I'm getting 6 boxes for $150 each(loyal customer discount) and my friend is getting 6 boxes at the same store for $180 each. There' no way this non-franchise store could do that, have enough fro several draft events and sell more boxes to other customers. They're artificially inflating prices and demand.

>> No.25019029

melt away when Oona "died" and the aurora cycle ended.*

>> No.25019050

I'm still not convinced. Though this does bring to mind it's possible they're saying it won't affect prices much when they KNOW it will.

>> No.25019066

Actually, it went about 12 years without it being a problem. Then Timmy started bitching about all his baloths and wurms and dragons getting countered because Timmy doesn't play Blue and has no way to deal with counterspells. So now we're at a point where Blue isn't even allowed to have decent counterspells, and every instant and sorcery in Standard may as well have Split Second.

That is boring as all hell.

Give every color the weapons they need to fight on the Stack and the problem's solved.

>> No.25019103

No, see, because--for the same reason that your Timmy strawman didn't play blue--the potential exists for complaining about "having to put counterspells in my deck."

Let Blue keep something special, rather than devaluing it even more.

>> No.25019183

>Give every color the weapons they need to fight on the Stack and the problem's solved.
If the desired outcome was that games would be fought on the stack, rather than the battlefield, then the colors would HAVE the weapons they need to fight on the stack.

The fact that they don't--and the fact that blue's existing tools for doing so are being weakened--means that design is choosing the battlefield over the stack.

>> No.25019318

Blue would still be special in that it would be the only color to get "counter target spell". Every other color would get restrictions on what kinds of spell it could counter based on what's appropriate for the color.

Blue is also still the best color at drawing cards, the primary color for hexproof (and shroud before that), the primary color for doing shit with artifacts, the primary color for "instants and sorceries matter" effects, the primary color for flying things, the primary color for anything thematically related to air, water, and cold, the primary color for twiddle effects, the primary color for extra turns, the primary color for clone effects, the primary color for library indexing, and so on.

>If the desired outcome was that games would be fought on the stack, rather than the battlefield
It's not. The desired outcome is that games would be fought on both the Stack AND the battlefield. Giving every color access to flavorfully appropriate counterspells means that the Stack becomes more interactive. It means counterspells can be stronger without becoming dominant. It means that creatures can be scaled down a bit because they don't have to be borderline broken to be worth running in a game where all colors have direct answers to them while only Blue can directly answer instants or sorceries.

>> No.25019350

You have yet to supply a reason that the other colors need to specifically have the ability to counter spells, rather than other ways to fight on the stack.

>> No.25019473

If you can think of another way to cause an instant or sorcery on the stack to not resolve other than countering it, I'd love to hear it. And before you suggest more ways to make targeted spells fizzle due to their targets become illegal (which is ugly, unintuitive design by most standards, especially when compared to simply giving colors the ability to counter spells that are flavorfully appropriate for them to counter), you should probably know that that's technically countering the spell anyways (6.08.2b in the comprehensive rules).

>> No.25019601

>Implying I haven't read the CR
You, on the other hand, are suggesting that the only way to fight on the stack is to prevent resolution. That's like saying that all creature removal is flat-out "Destroy target creature." As opposed to damage, -X/-X, fight, bounce, and so on.

Copying spells, redirecting them, and gaining control of them--yes, there's precedent for that--are all options. For the same reason that every color doesn't get "Destroy target creature," I would argue that giving every color "Counter target spell" is a grossly narrow approach to stack interaction.

>> No.25020058

The guy before you that wanted to change lands at least thought that how many of which basic land you could have should be decided before the game. His idea was stupid, being normal basic lands but without cards, because nobody but you is insane enough to want to scrap the current way wizards does lands altogether.

Mana sources are the bottom of mtg's strategy pyramid, you can't make it a free for all without unbalancing the game.

Name (leave empty)
Comment (leave empty)
Password [?]Password used for file deletion.