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[ERROR] No.24842387 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

So the the Tau have anything going for them, other than they being too sucky for the the Imperium to deal with?

Fluffwise, their elite warrior class firewarriors can't hope to match guard regiments like the Cadians or the Catachans, let alone guys like the space marines or the sisters of battle. And their techolgy seems to be 10,000 years and 3 magical powers behind everyone else. This isn't taking into account everyone else out numbers them a gazillion to one.

So do the Tau have anything to make them not suck?

>> No.24842463

They're the only real scifi faction, aside from Tyranids.

Everbody else is grimdark space fantasy.

>> No.24842481

>>24842463
Fuck you right.

>> No.24842515

This thread seems familiar...

https://archive.foolz.us/tg/thread/23505754/
https://archive.foolz.us/tg/thread/24824500/
https://archive.foolz.us/tg/thread/23689304/

No whale this time?

>> No.24842517

tau is glass canon

>> No.24842519

They're just like one of my animes.

>> No.24842663

Fluffwise, the tau are the only faction that actually progresses.

This year they may be small fish, but in 1000 years they'll be a significant force and in 5000 a major force.

This year the Imperium is beset upon all sides by innumerable enemies and it will stay that way until the Tau upset the balance, either be exterminating them or incorporating them.

>> No.24842695

>>24842663

The Tau will never exterminate the Imperium. Their FTL tech is way too slow. If they expanded any more their perimeters would become so isolated the Imperium could outspeed and isolate and pick them apart planet by planet.

If anything Tau represent the tragic irony of the setting that good intentions mean jack shit in the grand scheme of things.

>> No.24842721

I thought the idea of the Tau was to contrast with the imperium technologically. The Tau make up for their innate weaknesses with technology, and the imperium make up for their technological weaknesses with brute strength.

>> No.24842736

Pic related

>> No.24842761

>>24842736

Except the Tau aren't masking their awesome technology as divine right.

On that note, that scene with the Coronation and the attempted Coup was still the greatest moment I've ever read in a sci-fi novel.

>> No.24842763

>>24842721

More like the contrast lies in resource concentration.

Tau are smaller in scope and incredibly lucky when it comes to resources and allies, finding quick allies in their native system and able to outfit every soldier with good gear.

The Imperium is spread out ridiculously thin and has to ration out resources carefully. It's constantly surrounded by alien aggressors and threats from without and within so the only means of survival is to adopt strict xenophobic policies. The only people that get good tech (and ultimately the good stuff in the imperium is often superior to Tau technology) are an extremely limited few.

>> No.24842806

>>24842695
What if the Tau create a new form of FTL travel?
What if the Tau improve on their slow warp travel?
What if they eventually vastly outnumber the Imperium?
What if the Tau develop the technology of their ships so that each one of theirs is worth 20 of the Imperiums?

All these things are possible with the Tau, because they have the potential to grow and change.

>> No.24842848

>>24842761
The Foundation only did that for a little while. What I'm pointing out is that conceptually, the way they work is about the same and that gives them the same kind of plot armor.

The Tau succeed based on the fact that the Imperium absolutely, verifiably canonically is collapsing. The Imperium will never be able to touch the Tau, not because it's not strong enough, but because it sucks at getting pretty much anything done these days.

That crusade that didn't wipe out the Tau... that Imperial general that didn't wipe out the Foundation. So the Tau, like the Foundation, continue to gobble up the isolated peripheral regions. Just way slower.

There's plenty of references to Foundation in old 40k (Imperial preachers have conversion fields in their rosariuses to fool superstitious primitives, etc) that I assume this is exactly what GW was doing when they added Tau.

>> No.24842883

>>24842806

I see lots of what ifs here based on nothing.

How what if the Imperium discover an STC that enables a faster means of FTL?
What if the Admech discovers a fully operational STC machine?
What if Abaddon is routed for good and the Imperium can afford to move more of its troops away from the eye?
What if all the missing Primarchs turn up at once and decide they want to go kick some Tau arse?

>> No.24842980

>>24842883
But the Tau have shown consistent improvement and growth. This is the nature of their fluff.

The Imperium is shown to be consistently stagnant and doomed.

You're drawing a false equivalency between the Ifs of the Tau and the Ifs of the Imperium.

The Tau WILL improve their travel if given time. They WILL improve their numbers. They WILL improve the power of their ships. They have already done these things, multiple times.

The Imperium will probably never discover an STC more complete than they have already found. They will almost certainly never find an operation STC machine. Abaddon may be routed, but the Eye will not be and troops will have to stay stationed there.
The Primarchs coming back is the hope of a desperate people. This is like the Jews waiting for the Messiah to come and save them from the evils of the Roman Empire.
These things won't happen. The Imperium will have to unfuck itself and if it was real, I'd like it to. But it's a fantasy setting and one of the primary themes of this setting is the stagnating, hopeless state that humanity and the rest of the galaxy is in. The Tau don't abide by this theme, however. They're just generic sci-fi advancing into the future people.

Sincerely get rekt, my dearest of anons.

>> No.24843007

>>24842980

d-d-d-d-damage control

You are why nobody likes Tau players, you can't stand anyone besmirching the name of your faction in any way.

>> No.24843023

>>24842980

>consistent improvement and growth
>current codex mentions multiple times that they're struggling to produce enough soldiers which necessitates their reliance on auxiliaries.

>> No.24843045

>>24842980

/pol/ pls go.

>> No.24843145

>>24843007
I'm not a tau player, I dislike tau because they don't fit the setting

All I can assume is that you're an Imperium fag. Take a big step back and consider how shit Imperium fags act compared to Tau fags.
They're better, but not so much better that they can act as any sort of authority on what counts as annoying shit.

>>24843023
>my anus is completely devastated by your resounding... nothing

They're still progressing. Why is this concept so black and white to you?


>>24843045
Where the fuck did you get that from? I don't even go on /pol/.

Seriously /tg/ needs to stop this 'back to /pol/' shit.

It's probably real nice to pretend you don't have to actually use logic to win an argument or whatever, but it doesn't actually do anything.

>> No.24843164

>>24843023
This anon has it right here

Seriously other anon, if you're going to try and TIDF it up in here, you're going to have to come up with some better arguments than "yeah but they're getting somewhere"
They're going nowhere fast.

>> No.24843198

>>24842980

Tau out populating the Imperium sounds more far fetched then the admech discovering a working STC.

I mean seriously, stop and think about it... Tau out populating 40k humanity. It just doesn't add up at all. And Tau technology isn't even that impressive. Spread Tau out over a couple more systems and watch as they're forced to send their fire warriors out in flak jackets and flashlights or dilute their empire with auxiliaries so much that all you get is a loose collection of alien empires paying lip service to a 'greater good' they seriously don't give a shit about.

>> No.24843199

>>24843145
>Take a big step back and consider how shit Imperium fags act

Imperium fags really are everything that is wrong with 40k and it's player base... They're the single, largest group of self-entitled fucksticks on the planet. Worse than WalMart shoppers, even.

>> No.24843214

>>24843199

Nah.

>> No.24843219

>>24843199
Pretty much this.

>> No.24843228

>>24843164
They aren't going nowhere fast. That is an extremely accurate explanation of the Imperium or Orks.

The tau are going somewhere at a fairly consistent, moderate pace, which is better than most.

>>24843198
My original post (the one THAT post is defending) was merely talking about spaceships. I meant the tau could make more space ships piloted by like 10 guys, or they could make legions of crisis suits, that sort of thing.

>>24843199
I honestly don't think they're the worst. I just think they're the most numerous, so they can seem worse.

>> No.24843235

>>24842980

>they have done these things multiple times

Only because the writers retconned their salvaging alien vessels and working with space faring xenos races to utilize their warp engines to Tau just.. doing it themselves.

So you just want more retcons and more Tau mary sue faggotry, you just want a bland, shitty faction that never has anything interesting to do in the setting other than be naive.

The Imperium is flawed as fuck, but at least it's entertaining and fleshed out.

>> No.24843262

>>24843199

MANATEE guard players are the worst, followed by whiny Tau players paranoid about anyone badmouthing their pristine blue waifus.

After them it's an even split between powergamers of all sorts (Imperium and otherwise) and the current string of whiny xenos players bitching about not being updated... despite the fact that DE and Cronz and Tau have all been updated incredibly well and Eldar are up next.

>> No.24843265

>>24842806
What if the Tau just invents Super-Duper armour, rendering their firewarriors invincible to everything ever?

>> No.24843275

>>24843265

What if Tau just invents anti Imperium spray?

>> No.24843281

>>24842980
And so what?
The Imperium at the time of Ciaphas Caine is a better place than it was 200 years prior.

The Imperium have also added new tech to its arsenal. It also happens to know about shit that the Tau don't. Like Chaos, and Nids.

>> No.24843283

What if the Empra wakes up?

>> No.24843287

>>24843275
What if the Tau just kills Slaneesh?

>> No.24843307

>>24842980

If we're talking about precedents the Imperium has wiped out advanced civilzations even stronger than the Tau before.

The only reason the Tau exist now is because the eye of terror draws the majority of the Imperium's forces. Oh and lets not forget how conveniently perfect the Tau's positioning has been for them.

You're also assuming that just because the Tau's current technological trend has been pretty steep means it's going to continue to be that way. Analysts throughout the 20th century did this and by their calculations I should be in a flying car right now.

>> No.24843309

>>24842387
Fluffwise they have the second or third best technology of all races (probably tied with eldar and behind necrons), with the sole exception of long FTL travel that they haven't mastered yet. Keep in mind that they do have samples of warp drives and they do have warp sensitive races into the Tau collective, so it's only a matter of time for them to master long distance FTL (which won't happen because GW doesn't advance the plot).

Also fluffwise a fire warrior unit packs a lot more punch than anything the IG can field in terms of non mechanized infantry, and they have training on par with the IG finest (Cadians, Catachans, Stormtroopers) .

What they do lack is numbers (they got maybe a hundred planets on their empire?) and good FTL. Otherwise, pound-by-pound a Tau force usually reaps the shit of every other race they meet, it's just that most of the time they are hugely outnumbered (specially against the Imperium, Orks and Tyranids their most common foes)

>> No.24843324

>>24843309
>It's just that their entire enemy is made of 'Hit it with more bodies than they do' which is what the Tau are fucked by.

>> No.24843335

>>24843309

>with the sole exception of FTL

Imperium has Terminator armour
Imperium has vortex weaponry
Imperium has Ordinatii
Imperium has phase technology
Imperium has the astronomicon

And countless other whacky bits of tech. The thing is that the Imperium is just so big it can't afford to bring all this stuff to bear everywhere. Tau can because they're small and resource lucky.

>> No.24843344

>>24842883
>>24842695
thing is, in the new Tau codex it's said the Tau captured and are studying a human warp drive. While the Tau itself don't have a warp presence, many of the races that are part of the greater good do, so It's a matter of (little) time for the Tau to get reliable FTL based on human technology.

As another anon said, part of the Tau gimmick is being adaptable and inovative. That's pretty much the opposite of the Imperium gimmick.

>> No.24843355

>>24843344

It's also the Tau schtick to get fucked up the arse raw due to their inexperience.

>> No.24843357

>>24843235
>>24843265
>>24843281
>>24843307
Settle the fuck down.

Read part 1 of my ongoing series, here. >>24843145

All I'm saying is that one of the core themes of the Imperium is stagnation in every regard, except for perhaps psychic. Meanwhile the core theme of Tau is "progress through science!"

>>24843281
You know the new arsenal crap is just to push models, nothing more. And no, it's not the same for the tau. They are explicitly progressing scientifically.

>The Imperium at the time of Ciaphas Caine is a better place than it was 200 years prior.
I haven't read any of the Ciaphas Cain books. What's said?

>> No.24843387

>>24843344
> it's only a matter of time before DAEMONS, DAEMONS EVERYWHERE! lel

>> No.24843402

What if the Imperium had the Collegia Titanica or something like Adeptus Astartes?

>> No.24843437

These Impfags not realizing that the Tau Etherials are just a construct race the Emperor created to control the Tau because he likes the cut of their jib.

>> No.24843442

>>24843357
Nothing, there's just books published in 100 or 200.M42 that talk about Cain's campaign (whichever is in the particuar book) that talk about his glorious victories.

If anything it just confirms the IoM is in the same shape it's always been in and Abbadon is still an armless failure.

>> No.24843463

>>24843335
yeah, ok, Ill give you that, the Imperium has some impressive shit too.

What I meant to say is that the bread and butter of the Tau force is way more advanced than what the Imperium usually fields (which is pretty much WW2 era technology plus laserguns). Fluffwise a firewarrior recruit (the lowest of the Tau military) carries a weapon that can off a SM in terminator armor, one of the most elite unities that the Imperium can bring to play.

But more importantly, the Tau are young race (a couple of thousand years old) that shows constant development of technology in a way it can go toe to toe in most battles with a race that not only outnumbers it but also are 20 000 to 30 000 years ahead of them in terms of technology development, considering most of the shit the empire uses comes from the DAoT

>> No.24843480

>>24843387
it doesn't happen that often to Imperium navigators and astropaths (not enough to make warp travel prohibitive), why should it happen that often with the Tau?

>> No.24843497

>>24843480
Because the Imperium has people who can see where they're going?

Also because Gellar fields.

And because the benevolent hand of the Emperor reaches through the Warp.

>> No.24843498

>>24843463
>carries a weapon that can off a SM in terminator armor, one of the most elite unities that the Imperium can bring to play.
Hardly, their rifles are on par with Astartes boltguns, and so can threaten a space marine in powered armor. But not Termies, not unless the guy inside is a moron.

>> No.24843522

The main problem for the Tau is the smaller front line population, they may have the tech, but without the numbers the IG fields would ultimately see their defeat. For instance it took the Tau allying with the IG to face off against Gorgon to even claim victory.

>> No.24843533

>>24843498
That's what rail guns are for.

>> No.24843539

>>24843522
The Tau are fine, a clear presidence has been set that, if the Tau are ever in any kind of mortal damage, the homeworld of their attacker with be invaded by an outside force, inadvertently saving the Tau in a HIGH-LARIOUS coincidence.

>> No.24843547

>>24843539
Your grammar and spelling are atrocious, but I can't argue with your facts.

>> No.24843553

>>24843497
> Because the Imperium has people who can see where they're going?
What makes you think Tau axiliary races can't see where they are going?

>Also because Gellar fields.
What makes you think that, if the Tau can reverse engineer Warp Drive, they can't rever engineer Gellar Fields? They have Imperium spacecraft in their possession and even if the first Warp Driven Spacecrafts they invent lead to demon infestation, the next won't

>And because the benevolent hand of the Emperor reaches through the Warp.

Yeah, he is dead Jim. Thank your god he is lightning the Astronomican and showing up in Tarot cards once in a while, but he sure as shit ain't protecting human vessels in the warp;

>> No.24843562

>>24843539
I forgot about the Tyranid homeworld...point made though

>> No.24843586

>>24843498
That has more to do with a rampant developer deciding his super snowflake marines needed 3++ saves, because a 2+/5++ just wasn't good enough for 40 points a model.

>> No.24843587

>>24842387
I want my Tau to look like this! I wish I could do blending.

>> No.24843589

>>24843533

Fire warriors don't carry railguns.

Also breaking news: Tau are slowly but surely turning into the Imperium. Onager gauntlet is already 'rare and one of a kind technological masterpiece'.

>> No.24843591

>>24843553
> what makes you think auxiliary races can't see where they're going?

Well, lack of fluff sources that indicate to the contrary for one.

Also, the hilariously bad Kroot Warsphere from Battlefleet Gothic.

>> No.24843606

>>24843553

But they haven't reverse engineered a warp drive anymore. Vetock retconned it. Now the first time the Tau have even seen a warp engine was in the aftermath of the damocles crusade, and the tidbit just mentions how the Earth caste is completely baffled by it.

As opposed to before where their FTL drive literally was reverse engineered.

>> No.24843608

>>24843498
Pulse Rifles are actually a bit more powerful than astartes Boltguns.

>> No.24843612

>>24843442
Is it just that the Black Crusade is over?

>>24843497
Tau have Gellar fields, I'm pretty sure.

>>24843553
>but he sure as shit ain't protecting human vessels in the warp;
He does every now and again, just not consistently.

But I think the other guy was referring to the Astronomicon.

>> No.24843622

>>24843612

Tau could only have been presumed to have had Gellar fields before when their FTL was partially warp based.

Now that it's just 'lolnope they just go fast' there's nothing to indicate they have Gellar fields.

>> No.24843623

>>24843498
If by on par with Astartes boltguns you mean in between Astartes boltguns and Astartes plasma guns.

>> No.24843628

>>24843589
I wasn't saying that the Fire warriors have rail guns. I was saying that it doesn't matter that a FW can't kill a Term, his friend in the Broadside or Ripetide has his back covered

>> No.24843632

>>24843608

Yeah but the guys point is that they don't threaten terminator armour anymore than a boltgun.

>> No.24843635

>>24843591
It flat out says they are allied with the Demiurg, who are known for their ridiculous spaceships.

>> No.24843636

>>24843628

Too bad for the suit that the marines are carrying krak missiles.

>> No.24843644

>>24843635

Not anymore.

>> No.24843655

>>24843608
Pulse Rifles are 2d10+2 damage and Pen: 4, with a 150m effective range with gyro-stabilized (Target never counts its target as being farther than long range, (double the effective range) for its ballistics skill test.)

A Godwyn Pattern Astartes Boltgun is 2d10+5 damage with Pen: 5, an effective range of 100m. And it's tearing.

Pulse rifles are longer range than astartes boltguns, but astartes boltguns dealing a lot more damage when you consider Tearing (roll 4 dice for the 2d10 and take the highest two)

>> No.24843669

>>24843636
Good thing they have more than one Broadside, plus some Devilfish if they're smart.

>> No.24843671

>>24843655
Now a human boltgun is 1d10+4 tearing with a pen of 4. So a pulse rifle is definitely far superior to a human boltgun.

>> No.24843675

>>24843669

Trouble is marines can be bristling with missile launchers.

>> No.24843676

>>24843636
>Krak missiles
>Being useful
>not being gunned down by a Railgun Broadside set to blobfucker or whatever the AoE's called

>> No.24843680

Im suprised no-one has commented on AI danger in Tau society. In the codex was some fluff about a commissar who remembered the AI uprising and said the Tau pose a similar threat to the galaxy, because they were just like humanity 20k years ago.

Once dem AI's start tripping, Tau are dun goofed. Remember how it wrecked the imperium and how it was a big cause in how stagnant the Imperium nowadays is?

>> No.24843690

>>24843676

You realise that a krak missile will ID a battlesuit right?

>> No.24843694

>>24843344
In the new Tau codex it says that when they asked captured Tech-priests how the warp drives worked the answers they got were "do this ritual, pray to the Machine Spirit, and hope you did it right" so they abandoned the project.
At the fall of Medusa V the Tau were studying the warp rift to develop warp tech. Their findings were basically "Nope. We don't want to go into the warp. Shit in there will kill us. Kill us horribly"

>> No.24843696

>>24843680
No, it's an Inquisitor said that they reminded him of stories from DAOT about AI rebellion.

But yeah, not even the Necrons can keep their AI in check, AI is bad fucking news in 40k.

>> No.24843705

>>24843694
Maybe not telling the grease monkey tier tech priests how shit works is a good policy after all.

>> No.24843719

>>24843675
Cool. They can be introduced to a bunch of Tau missiles as well. And considering if you have pathfinders marking them Tau rail guns and missile pods are considerably more accurate AND the missile pod can fire through all cover I would definitely give the advantage to the Tau being able to pop the Terms before the terms even get into range.

>> No.24843722

>>24843694

It actually didn't specify techpriests and it just said they used rituals and chanting.

>> No.24843730

>>24843676
You sir get the jist of my argument.

>> No.24843731

>>24843622
Oh shit I forgot about that.

I have my own headcanon where I reject things in new fluff that is just completely fucking retarded.
See also:
>Necrons don't go in the Webway
>Tyranids don't use gravity magic

>>24843655
What is this Fantasy Flight shit?

>>24843675
Stop being such a fucking Marine babby. You're not going to win every time.
Besides, there's probably more Crisis suits than there are marines.

>> No.24843733

>>24843719

Tau missile pods are AP4.

>> No.24843737

>>24843680
Yea but Tau don't have any AI.

>> No.24843742

>>24843731

>more crisis suits than marines

I'd contest this, I mean marines are rare but crisis suits are the super elite.

>> No.24843747

>>24843676
> broadsides
> having the submunitions fire mode
I see you haven't read your book closely.

>> No.24843748

>>24843737

>what are drones.

>> No.24843750

>>24843737
What do you think the Drones are?

>> No.24843753

>>24843731
Fantasy Flight is a lot closer to the fluff than the Table Top is. Space Marines are unstoppable killing machines, guardsmen die in mass, and the Tau have weapons that rival space marines' given to their grunts.

>> No.24843760

>>24843731

Fantasy Flight is the official TTRPG.

>> No.24843761

>>24843442

>Abbadon is still an armless failure.

This maymay doesn't hold up when you realize all of his Black Crusades accomplished their goals.

>> No.24843764

>>24843737
What are drones?
What is Commander Puretide

Actually when you think about it, Puretide will be the Tau's Skynet

>> No.24843765

>>24843733
Tau rail guns at S10 AP1 and their range is the entire fucking board.

Your point?

>> No.24843773

>>24843761
Except apparently number 13 which the fluff portrays as the big one all the others were building up to.

>> No.24843774

>>24843742
1000 chapters of 1000 men gives you a total of what, a million? And that's assuming each and every chapter is codex-compliant, which they're fucking not.

>> No.24843780

>>24843742
Not really, a second rank Shas has a crisis suit normally.

>> No.24843781

>>24843765

Range doesn't matter when some sternguards with combi meltas drop pod right next to you.

>> No.24843784

>>24843748
Robots with pre programmed patterns.

>> No.24843785

>>24843774

Tau aren't very numerous.

>> No.24843786

>>24843655
so on the tabletop pulse rifles have an extra point of str compared to bolters, but in rouge trader bolters do more damage? I know the fluff is supposed to be inconsistent since allot of it is supposedly in universe propaganda, but is it really so much to ask that the crunch is consistent?

>> No.24843791

>>24843696
Have to agree with this as a Tau player. The idea of the Tau building an A.I to house Puretide their main source on tactics is scary as fuck for me, I also really hated the idea that the ethereals turned around and said "our technology will ever progress but we will always maintain the teaching and tactics of puretide and never deviate from those ideas." I'm sure there are parallels to the Imperium that can be drawn here. I don't understand the need to shit on every faction to make them dark and edgy. I'm probably going to catch shit for this considering this is Warhammer DARK&EDGYk but hay.

>> No.24843792

>>24843753
How do I say this... "Putting the cart before the horse" Is this what you call them? Alcoves?

You're saying "the fluff supports it so it's true" when that FF fluff could be the problem.

>> No.24843796

>>24843750
They are robots with pre-programmed functions. No where in the fluff does it say that they are even close to AI.

>> No.24843797

>>24843747
Eh, they could in 3e, which is honestly the last time I cared about this shitty game.

>> No.24843798

>>24843784

Yes Tau'yim. No need to worry about your drones, just keep upgrading us to suit your general combat needs.

Happy Dronchant is your greatest ally.

>> No.24843805

>>24843786
On the tabletop, they don't distinguish between human and astartes boltguns, they're both Str. 4 AP. 5
Pulse Rifles in the RPG blow human boltguns out of the water. (1d10+4, pen: 4, tearing)

>> No.24843810

>>24843786

You're getting it wrong.

In the TT there's no difference between all regular bolters. In FF There's a marked difference between human sized bolters and the hand cannons Marines wield.

>> No.24843815

>>24843784
In the current codex it says that when large numbers of drones are together they start to act with some degree of intelligence and self preservation.

>> No.24843818

>>24843786
>Pulse rifle
>2d10+3E Pen 4

>Bolter
>1d10+5X Pen 4

Yeah, nah, you're full of shit.

>> No.24843824

>>24843792
It's not the FF fluff that supports it, the Black Library novels, (some of the) codices and rulebook support it too.

>> No.24843825

To be fair in like 200 years they made more technological progress than the imperium did in like thousands of years.

If you're talking fluff, its only a matter of time until Tau create tech powerful enough to steamroll.

Problem is they're so slow to grow.

>> No.24843827

>>24843750
I think drones are controlled, either by someone on the battlefield or someone observing from nearby. On account of, you know, DRONE CONTROLLERS LITERALLY BEING AN ITEM IN YOUR BOOK.

If they're anything, they're closer to machine spirits than AI. But no. Drones are not artificial intelligences.

>> No.24843836

>>24843784
>>24843796

The fluff entry for Drone Squadrons in the Tau codex explicitly uses the phrase "artificial intelligence" several times.

>> No.24843839

>>24843791

I like it, it's a nice dosage of a little, humorous darkening that brings the weaknesses of the Tau into the light without changing their entire character.

Try telling that to most Tau players and they plug their ears and go 'LALALA WE'RE PERFECT'

Kudos to you anon for being a gentleman. Would sit down and accept a Water Caste dignitary over some tea.

>> No.24843840

>>24843785
I know, that was my point. There are at least a million odd marines.

>> No.24843842

>>24843791
My money is on the Puretide AI eventually getting pissed off that its students keep fucking up his teachings and decide that it can do better and go Skynet on their ass

>> No.24843845

>>24843773

Well, at his forces have breached Cadia, granted they're stuck there since the Imperium has near total control of the sky.

Then again this may be part of the plan, the 6th edition CSM codex says his plan to cause so much death and destruction that the EoT will expand and ride it to Terra.

>> No.24843846

>>24843818
He's talking about the pulse rifles being slightly weaker than Astartes boltguns, not the human boltguns. I don't think he knows there's a difference in the RPGs.

>> No.24843851

>>24843810
That's what he said.

He's saying that Pulse Rifles SHOULD be better than all boltguns. But the Fantasy Flight Marine fans have made it so
>aww but nah because this is a SPACE MARINE bolter and so it's like umm better than even that. So there.

I'm getting dangerously close to just stirring up shit

>> No.24843856

>>24843307
>You're also assuming that just because the Tau's current technological trend has been pretty steep means it's going to continue to be that way. Analysts throughout the 20th century did this and by their calculations I should be in a flying car right now.

Thats bs, while you don't fly around in your own personal skycar just yet, there has been literally millions of inventions that people wouldn't even dream about a hundred years ago. If anything, we are accelerating out technology momentum

>> No.24843859

>>24843792

All the other incarnations of the fluff support it. The Inquisitor game supported it.

Read the first book in the Night Lords trilogy and during a firefight Talos literally cogitates over this exact issue.

>> No.24843862

>>24843818

How are you this stupid?

>> No.24843870

>>24843827
>doesn't know what an AI is

Drones are weak AI.

>> No.24843872

>>24843463
>WW2 era technology

Orbital relays, battle networks, iPads, high energy weapons, rocket machine guns as basic support weapons, holographic projectors, fusion charges, laser rangefinder, motion scanners and sensors, engines that run on anything combustible, energy cells that recharge by heat and light, anti-grav chutes and harnesses that let you carry and fire guns from the hip, VTOL support crafts, orbital deployment...

Again, someone confuses sleek and shiny with sophisticated high-tech.

>off a SM in terminator armor

Source? Because in the game even a ratling can kick the shit out of a terminator, while in the fluff they get stepped on by Titans and plasma guns can barely scratch the surface of them. And a lasgun is more than enough to deal with you average target, there's even cases of it penetrating power armour (as in the chest plate) with lucky hits.

Tau have had the benefit of being so insignificant nobody really gives two shits about them. The Damocles Crusade was barely a skirmish in the Imperial scale, consisting of 19 Guard regiments, 5 companies of Marines and 12 capital ships. Currently the Imperial policy regarding that Tau is, "they're not causing much trouble so let them be for now".

I also like how the Tau tech was dialed down. They lack FTL, it takes ages to move troops even in their sorry little empire, they had suits running on fossil fuels in the 2nd sphere expansion and it's possible XV suits use fission power (V suits used fission reactors, Earth caste is looking into new radioactive materials for reactors, and as of very late M41, prototype fusion reactors were being tested), ion weapons irradiate their users in a matter of months, etc. Even pulse rifle isn't that fancy. We have induction plasma technology TODAY.

>> No.24843873

>>24843851
You can outrange the shit out of space marines, and the damage potential is 26 instead of 30.

Also space marine boltguns have been noted on many occasions in BL as being larger and more powerful than the human variants. It's not something FFG made up.

>> No.24843876

>>24843737

>Yea but Tau don't have any AI.

Drones and I also believe their suits and ships have limited form of AI. Not saying it's a big problem now, but as they advance their technology and incorporate more AI, it has a lot of potential to become a very big problem.

>> No.24843883

>>24843851

No, the power difference between human bolters and astartes bolters have always existed.

>> No.24843885

>>24843307

Acceleration of Moores law.

Baring shit like religion or politics (Tau religion and politics encourage scientific endeavors) the more tech you have the faster you develop shit.

>> No.24843886

>>24843845
Well, that didn't work. Chiphas Cain was buried on Cadia on 125M42 with full military honors as befitting a Hero of the Imperium

>> No.24843894

>>24843872

>ipads

>> No.24843896

>>24843655
Astartes boltguns were nerfed in the errata and in Black Crusade, now they're 1d10+9X. Which is good, because Deathwatch boltguns were fucking ridiculous.

>> No.24843904

>>24843825

>To be fair in like 200 years they made more technological progress than the imperium did in like thousands of years.

Because they don't know nor are they highly at risk (for now at least) of Daemons possessing and/or influencing their technology.

>> No.24843906

>>24843798

5 star post brosicle.

>> No.24843908

>>24843606
Even in the old fluff the Tau ships couldn't pierce into the Warp. I think it said something about how they must have been missing some key component. Tau jump drives just lunge at the warp and gets bounced back by the barrier between real space and the warp, propelling the craft great distances.

>> No.24843917

>>24843873
>>24843883
But who decided that Pulse Guns were weaker than Space Marine Bolt Guns? There is clear precedent of them being better.

Astartes bolters should be in between a human bolter and Pulse gun in power, but because FF is marine wank they conveniently ignored this.

>> No.24843919

>>24843886
>Cain's actually dead.

Cain doesn't have the guts to die.

>> No.24843922

>>24843904
Why should the Tau Empire worry about "daemons"? We killed Slaanesh!

>> No.24843925

>>24843904

Aren't they the only race not affected by Daemons?

>> No.24843927

>>24843908

Not anymore. Old fluff had them reverse engineering warp drives and interacting closely with space faring races.

Now their fluff posits their first encounter with warp drives AFTER the damocles crusades and after their development of FTL.

Fucking Vetock.

>> No.24843932

>>24843917

But they're not better.

>> No.24843936

>>24843927
I swear, the average fa/tg/uy knows more about Warhammer 40k than it's designers.

>> No.24843937

>>24843917
See >>24843896
FFG realized how stupidly broken they made Marine bolters and tried to fix them.

>> No.24843942

>>24843919
Of course he isn't dead. The Munitorium issued an edict that said he could never be listed as being dead.

>> No.24843944

>>24843798

I laughed. I've been on 4chan too long.

>> No.24843947

>>24843896
Do they take shit out of the errata if it gets into a new copy of the book or something? Because I'm not seeing it in the Deathwatch Errata.

But the Legionaire Boltgun in Black Crusade is indeed 1d10+9

>> No.24843956

>>24843942
He is just buried there, but he is not listed as being dead

>> No.24843957

>>24843894
Dataslate. It's a device that stores and lets you view information, pics and videos, record and process orders, access archives, etc. And in the fluff they're treated like books.

>> No.24843969

>>24843925
Daemons can kill them just as dead as any other race, barring perhaps the Necrons. The Tau just aren't warp-sensitive, so daemons tend to ignore them. A tau soul is like a single kernel of popcorn, compared to the hamburger of a human and the filet mignon of an eldar.

>> No.24843972

>>24843937
Yet
>>24843932
People still try to claim otherwise. It was never justifiable in the first place. FF should only be stretching GW's established information to fit the flavour text and setting.

Making Space Marines closer to the million man supersoldiers they are in text, instead of the above average mooks they on tabletop is reasonable. Making them better than everyone at everything is not.
But FF still thought this was acceptable at first and a bunch of fanboys in a 4chan thread think that as well.

>> No.24843978

>>24842387
Sane military doctrine? I phrased that as a question because I'm not sure if sanity is an advantage or a disadvantage in the 40Kverse.

>> No.24843980

>>24843894

>what are data slates

>> No.24843982

>>24843839
I agree no faction should be perfect and I like all the additional changes such as them not being so patient with races that accept their ideals fast enough. Also the disappearances of certain members of society i also like, I get the decision of the A.I by the tau, mostly because they dont know the galaxies history with A.I. But the stagnation of tactics? Thats completely against their character and just stupid. Would sit down and negotiate your entering the fold of the Greater Good also.

>>24843842
For sure, wait for the schism, half Firecast siding with puretide AI led by farsight against Shadow Sun backed by Ethereals.

Also if the Tau do become a major power they will be be the ultimate force against Chaos. Immune to taint and have no presence within the warp. They are granted the greatest insult against the chaos gods that can be given to a race, the ability to ignore them. (Unless farsight is being influenced by the dawn blade remains to be seen.)

>> No.24843983

>>24843956
It was just a beach prank, guise!

>> No.24843988

>>24843969

So the demons have no reason to reason to attack them at all effectively making them invisible to them.

Sounds pretty unaffected to me.

>> No.24843991

>>24843956
>>24843942
Because he's been listed as KIA multiple times, only to discover he's somehow cheated death. The Munitorum simply gave up trying to keep track of him.

>> No.24843992

>>24843972
>Making them better than everyone at everything is not.
Have you seen FFG's necrons?

>> No.24844004

>>24843982
heh, you said taint.

>> No.24844007

>>24843825
Such as? How long have they been using pulse rifles? Or those T-model suits with combustion engines, because they were developed in the first sphere expansion and were still used in the second one thousands of years later. They still use fission power. They haven't figured out FTL.

>> No.24844011

>>24843947
Page 10. Alternate stats for weapons, and this includes bumping bolt weapons down to 1d10+9.

>> No.24844017

>>24844007

> What is tabletop.

Fluff never advances because of tabletop this is a simple fact of the game.

>> No.24844025

>>24843988
>demons have no reason to reason to attack them

If a group of Daemons are able to force a Warp Rift open, then they're damn well going to do it, regardless of whether it dumps them into a Hive City or a Sept World. They might have little to gain from trying to manipulate and seduce the Tau, like they do with humans, but aren't going to turn down the chance to cause widespread mayhem and slaughter.

>> No.24844033

>>24843988
But when you put them in the Warp, where all the daemons live, any food is good food. A ship full of them is a bowl of popcorn. Much more appealing.

>> No.24844043

>>24844025

And the Tau would adapt to combat them, just like they did with the Nid splinter fleet. After getting their asses plasma raped and nothing to show for it, they'd fuck off and never come back.

>> No.24844058

>>24844004
I Shouldn't have?

>> No.24844073

>>24844017
Yeah, but we're talking about the fluff here. How much advancement have the Tau done in 200 years by the fluff? In the current codex their advance is slow as fuck. Which, to me, is just right, because no race in the world has just decided to go into space and in few centuries run this bitch. Humanity took 10 generations to reach their furthest colonies before M18, when warp travel was discovered. And even then it wasn't until M21 when navigators appeared that we really took off.

>> No.24844081

>>24844043
>And the Tau would adapt to combat them

No, they wouldn't, because the Tau don't understand what Daemons are. As far as they're concerned, they're just another hostile alien race that won't listen to reason, and write off all the stories told by the Imperium and Eldar as superstition and nonsense. They're not going to develop the same anti-Daemon technologies that the Imperium has because they won't think to try such silly things like loading the tears of a half-dead god into a bolter shell.

>> No.24844095

>>24844081

So deamons are suddenly immune to pulse fire and skyrays now?

>> No.24844111

>>24844095
Targetting them would be the problem. There's several instances in the BL fluff where targeters need to be turned off and aiming done without machine help because machines have issues processing "2" in binary.

>> No.24844116

>>24844095
To a degree, yes. Daemons are difficult to destroy with any entirely mundane weapon. It's why their saves are all Invulnerable in the tabletop game. Technology alone only goes so far against half-real creatures sculpted from nightmares and stolen emotions.

>> No.24844117

>>24843927
>Not anymore.

What part of "in the old fluff" is so hard to understand?

>after their development of FTL

Did they develop FTL? I can't find a single mention of it, just that they had ships with near light-speed and that the Earth caste is working on improving them. There is a mention of new greater speeds, but nothing really about it being FTL.

>> No.24844135

>>24843982
The Dawn Blade's probably Necronic or belonging to one of the races that went extinct during the great crusade, or war in the heavens. Farsight's gone 'fuck this', not 'fuck you'. He's out, he's had enough, he's got his own shit to deal with in the Damocles (if there was ever a word that could be used as a synonym for 'foreshadowing' it would be 'Damocles') Gulf and the saccharine of the Tau empire makes his goodamned teeth hurt.

Whatever it is that he's doing is probably some sort of black op though; he'd got Riptide support, and he really shouldn't. It's like Chaos having Assault Cannons and Storm Bolters.

>> No.24844157

>>24844135
>Call of Tau'va: Black Ops

>> No.24844171

>>24844116
Though daemons need a corporeal form to anchor themselves into reality. Destroy the form and it's all over. But you have to destroy it good, since a few holes wont cut it.

In Legacy it was said that las weapons worked poorly on daemons, as they just burned neat holes whole a shotgun blew off limbs and managed to cripple the daemons, as well as cause plenty of soft tissue damage.

>> No.24844178

>>24844135
>Chaos having Assault Cannons and Storm Bolters.
There are chapters that have fallen after the Heresy you know.
Like that one WD article that says use the space marine codex, but mix space marine and chaos space marine parts, to represent a newly fallen chapter/company

>> No.24844223

>>24844178
WD303. Which ironically used Red Corsairs as an example, then came 4e codex with Red Corsairs using all that legion shit. In Daemon World there's a Chaos dread (of the Violators chapter) armed with an assault cannon. Other cases exist as well, I'm sure.

It's a bit funny that the usual explanation is "well, they couldn't maintain them and they all broke down" while in BFG Chaos is using cruisers with plasma batteries the Imperium can't even make anymore.

>> No.24844239

>>24844135
This is addressed in the codex, with the ethereals concerned with how he got the technology and pretty much launching a witch hunt for the people giving him the tech, It doesn't make sense that the etherials would launch an op like that since all it has done is undermined their authority. Unless certain brass in the Fire Cast authorised It as an ace in the hole if they ever get sick of the Ethereals shit.

This begs the question what are the Ethereals really? Strange lights in sky before they show up, mind control like abilities over the tau. Are they Tau or members of a different race in disguise?

>> No.24844277

>>24844239
Eldar dickery. Because of reasons and just as planned.

>> No.24844282

>>24844239
>Unless certain brass in the Fire Cast authorised It as an ace in the hole if they ever get sick of the Ethereals shit.

It wouldn't surprise me, actually. Farsight still has quite a lot of clandestine support among the Fire Caste, so it's quite possible that he has sympathisers in a position to quietly leak technology to him.

>> No.24844302

>>24844277
possibly old ones?

>> No.24844352

>>24844239
They're the C'tan

>> No.24844561

>>24844302
Old Ones be dead.

Xenology (inb4 "Xenology") points the finger at the Eldar. There's also, I believe, cases of Eldar protecting the Tau.

>> No.24844582

>>24844561
In during Xenology

This was the same book that gave Tau feet (as opposed to, y'know, hooves), Eldar triple-helix DNA and erogenous ears, and was implied to be written by a Necron infiltrator?

>> No.24847384

>>24843773
I hope an ork waaaagh! Swings by because of all the fighting.

>> No.24847531

>>24843309
>Tau
>technology tied with Eldar

You're right on one thing : you're definately behind Necrons.

Rail guns and plasma do not hyper advanced technology make. Not when your opponent shoots black holes at you or rapidly disorganizes your very molecular makeup.

>> No.24847563

>>24847384
>not sure if serious....

You.. are familiar with what happened in the Eye of Terror campaign, I hope?

>> No.24847851

>>24847563
Not him, but I'm not. Enlighten me?

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