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[ERROR] No.24603900 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Remember when this guy was an actual threat?

>> No.24603934

inb4 dick

>> No.24603948

You mean every edition except 3.Xe?

Yes.

>> No.24603977

>>24603948
I was thinking more along the lines of 4.0, where you could just beat him to death.

Before that he was actually complicated as a monster, you had to fight through his thick armor and even if you did you had to waste a tier 9 spell unit on a wish to keep him dead. This could fuel an entire adventure on it's own.

>> No.24604028

>>24603977
>I was thinking more along the lines of 4.0, where you could just beat him to death.

>In the 4th edition version of the game, the tarrasque cannot be killed; reducing it to 0 hit points causes it to burrow into the core of the earth to slumber for a time (instead of killing it).

Yeah, "just" beat it to death. No, you dumb faggot, the Tarrasque is even harder to permakill, and no easier to subdue than it was in previous editions.

>Before that he was actually complicated as a monster, you had to fight through his thick armor and

You mean the thick armor that he still has, and that is now relevant because 4e actually made him a credible threat after 3.Xe ripped his testicles off?

>even if you did you had to waste a tier 9 spell unit on a wish to keep him dead.

Yeah, except not. Tossing the 3.Xe Tarrasque into a volcano or the Elemental Plane of Fire were not only options, they were cheaper than using Wish.

In 4e, you know what permakills the Tarrasque? NOTHING. NOT. A. THING. You can't Wish him dead, you can't throw him into a volcano, you can't do anything to him. He will come back eventually, under his own power, with no way to stop it.

>> No.24604084

>>24603977
>Be a wizard of level 3.
>Put on your robe and wizard hat.
>Cast Command Undead on an allip (it's a CR 3 monster, if you can't find any just learn to cast Summon Undead.)
>Cast Silent Image in front of the Tarrasque or Invisibility on yourself.
>Have the allip attack it. Every hit will take off 3 wisdom on average with no saving throw, and the Tarrasque has an abysmal touch AC, with no way to hit incorporeal targets.
>Once at 0 wisdom, it'll be unconscious until its ability score is restored.
>Cast Unseen Servant and have it shovel dirt into the nasal passages and lungs of the disabled Tarrasque so it can't breathe.
>Per the MM, regeneration does not restore HP lost from suffocation, so it will be stuck at negative hit points, at least until some retard unpacks the dirt from its sinuses.
>Congratulations! For defeating the Tarrasque, you're now a level 4 wizard, with 1 XP away from level 5. Make some wealth by opening a Bar and Grill on its back.

>> No.24604161

>>24604084

Shit, nigga! Yo mah nigga!

The hardest part of that brilliant plan is actually to find an allip!

>> No.24604176

>>24604084
Aren't tarrasques immune to ability drain?

>> No.24604211

>>24604084
>implying that he will not kill you when he decide to walk/rampage/fall unconscious

>> No.24604250

>>24604176
>>24604176
In PF, yes. Not in 3.5, though.

>> No.24604309

>>24604211
that's what Silent Image and/or Invisibility are for

>> No.24604345

>>24604309
he doesn't need to aim at you. he can kill you when he walk around, just because he stepped on you. unless the DM is stupid

>> No.24604382

>>24603977

Confirmed retard.

>> No.24604468

>>24604345
just pick a race with base land speed faster than 20ft

>> No.24604473

Combat: The tarrasque is a killing machine and when active (see below) eats everything for miles around, including all animals and vegetation. Normal attacks are with its two forelimb claws (1d12 points of damage each), a sweeping tail lash (2d12 points of damage), a savage bite (5d10 points of damage plus acts as a sword of sharpness, severing a limb on a natural attack roll of 18 or better), and two thrusting horn attacks (1d10 points of damage each).
Once every turn, the normally slow-moving tarrasque can rush forward at a movement rate of 15, making all horn attacks cause double damage and trampling anything underfoot for 4d10 points of crushing damage.
The mere sight of the tarrasque causes creatures with less than 3 levels or Hit Dice to be paralyzed with fright (no saving throw) until it is out of their vision. Creatures of 3 or more levels or Hit Dice flee in panic, although those of 7 or more levels or Hit Dice that manage to succeed with a saving throw vs. paralyzation are not affected (though they often still decide to run away).
The tarrasque's carapace is exceptionally tough and highly reflective.
Bolts and rays such as lightning bolts, cones of cold, and even magic missiles are useless against it. The reflection is such that 1 in 6 of these attacks actually bounces directly back at the caster (affecting him normally), while the rest bounce off harmlessly to the sides and into the air.
The tarrasque is also immune to all heat and fire, and it regenerates lost hit points at a rate of 1 hit point per round. Only enchanted weapons (+1 or better) have any hope of harming the tarrasque. The Tarrasque is totally immune to all psionics.

Eh, he's not so tough.

>> No.24604487

>>24604345
You are allowed to stay at range, you know, you don't need to hold the allip's ethereal hand to order it around!

>> No.24604496

>>24604382
As if the name wasn't a dead giveaway.

>> No.24604497

>>24604473
Ecology: Slaying of the tarrasque is said to be possible only if the monster is reduced to -30 or fewer hit points and a wish is then used. Otherwise, even the slightest piece of the tarrasque can regenerate and restore the monster completely.

Legend says that a great treasure can be extracted from the tarrasque's carapace. The upper portion, treated with acid and then heated in a furnace, is thought to yield gems (10d10 diamonds of 1,000 gp base value each). The underbelly material, mixed with the creature's blood and adamantite, is said to produce a metal that can be forged by master dwarven blacksmiths into 1d4 shields of +5 enchantment. It takes two years to manufacture each shield, and the dwarves aren't likely to do it for free.

It is hoped that the tarrasque is a solitary creation, some hideous abomination unleashed by the dark arts or by elder, forgotten gods to punish all of nature. The elemental nature of the tarrasque leads the few living tarrasque experts to speculate that the elemental princes of evil have something to do with its existence. In any case, the location of the tarrasque remains a mystery. as it rarely leaves witnesses in its wake, and nature quickly grows over all remnants of its presence. It is rumored that the tarrasque is responsible for the extinction of one ancient civilization. for the records of their last days spoke of a "great reptilian punisher sent by the gods to end the world."

Nice loot though.

>> No.24604511

>>24604468
the Tarrasque is huge (or other size, i dont remember). that means that his melee attacks have a very long range (again, i dont remember) and when he will fall, his body will smash you-he is just that big.

>> No.24604518

>>24604084
His claws can hit the allip though because they're "legendary" or something along those lines.

>> No.24604565

might as well leave this here

>> No.24604576

3.5 tarrasque is immune to energy drain you big dummies. An allip can't kill it

>> No.24604578

>>24604576
immue to ability damage as well. Can't you tards even read

>> No.24604750

A level 7 psion, a dorje of quintessence, and a powerstone of psionic overland flight can down the tarrasque in just under an hour and a half.

>> No.24604876

Ability drain is under the same term umbrella as ability damage.

It's really unclearly written, but from what I can tell there are no monsters in the Monster Manual that are immune to ability drain but many are immune to ability damage, so one could argue the two terms are one and the same. I'd be surprised if there was never an errata or a Sage on the topic.

>> No.24604895

If the Tarrasque reflects all rays, etc, what is a caster supposed to do to it besides buff the melee grinders and try to put it at a terrain disadvantage or something? This has always bothered me.

>> No.24604923

>>24604084
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/tarrasque.htm

>>Cast Silent Image in front of the Tarrasque or Invisibility on yourself.
Tarrasque have scent (can track your odor) and +8 to listen and spot, plus alertness feat. If can't hit the ghost, will just look after the wizard.

>>with no way to hit incorporeal targets
"The tarrasque’s natural weapons are treated as epic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction." This may require a bit of house ruling, but I would allow the tarrasque to slay the ghost in a bite or so. I doubt is the first time a tarrasque meets an incorporeal creature (either because wanders close a haunted house, or one of the previous victims want a revenge now as a ghost), so is reasonable to assume he can thread or kill incorporeal opponents.

>>Every hit will take off 3 wisdom on average with no saving throw
"Special Qualities: immunity to fire, poison, disease, energy drain, and ability damage,"

>>Cast Unseen Servant and have it shovel dirt into the nasal passages and lungs
Servant last 1 hr per level, and at level 3, can be cast only twice per day, so at most the servant would be working for 6hr at day. Now, we are talking about stuffing the lungs of a creature who weights 130ton. I doubt the task can be completed in 6hr or less, so I would assume the tarrasque will regenerate the wis damage way before its lungs are half filled.

Stop being a retard.

>> No.24604942

>>with no way to hit incorporeal targets
>>"The tarrasque’s natural weapons are treated as epic weapons for the >>purpose of overcoming damage reduction." This may require a bit of >>house ruling, but I would allow the tarrasque to slay the ghost in a bite >>or so. I doubt is the first time a tarrasque meets an incorporeal creature >>(either because wanders close a haunted house, or one of the previous >>victims want a revenge now as a ghost), so is reasonable to assume he >>can thread or kill incorporeal opponents.

I just got a wicked idea for an encounter.

>> No.24604980

Is it Tarasque Day already?

>> No.24605002

>>24604511

No.

>> No.24605004

>>24604980
Of course!

>> No.24605073

>>24605004
It's a holiday miracle!

>> No.24605091

>>24604923
Have you noticed nowhere it mentions immunity to charm and enchantment spells? Actually, its will save is the lowest, with 'only' a +20.

So... dominate monster, anyone? It last for 1 day per level, so if the spell success, an enchantress that can cast dominate monster will control the tarrasque for at very least one week, plenty of time to study and cast the spell again. And again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again...

Anyone can help to build an enchantress whose only purpose in life is to have the tarrasque as pet?

>> No.24605100

>Cleric creates a demiplane
>Wizard creates a portal to that demiplane
>shinomen naga hulking hurler with going on 50str without items or magic throws tarrasque through the portal
>portal closes, no way off the demiplane
DO YOU EVEN LIFT?

>> No.24605134

>Child of Rovagug
>Pretty much a demi-god
Eeeeeh I like Pathfinder's version.

>> No.24605192

>>24605091
She would have to have roughly a DC 31 for Dominate Monster. A 9th level spell is base DC 19, so you'd need +12 somehow to just have a 50% chance of the Tarrasque failing its save. Maybe Intelligence/Charisma 24, +6 from a Headband or Cloak, and Greater Spell Focus (Enchantment)?

Im not familiar with any Enchanter prestige classes that could make this even easier, though. They must certainly exist.

Don't forget spell resistance. At 32 (and let's say 17th level caster because that's when you can first cast Dominate Person) you would need to roll 15 or higher just to beat the SR, then it would have to roll 10 or less on its save. Its possible, I guess, especially if you specialized in Enchantment and could prepare nothing but Dominate Monsters. But god help you if you failed...

Coincidentally, a wizard at 17th level, 30 intelligence, and specialization in Enchantment would have exactly 3 chances to get the Tarrasque back under his control. Three strikes and you're out.
Here is a bonus question I just thought of. If the Tarrasque was dominated, how could someone undo it? Dispel Magic? Would the Dominate spell be protected by the Tarrasque's hide?

>> No.24605193

>>24605100
>artificer make a huge bag of holding
>the monk (or any other high dex+str PC) throw the bag at the Tarrasque.
>the Tarrasque is in the bag, can't get out
>the artificer make a smaller bag of holding, put bigger bag inside
>now you have a Tarrasque-at-will bag
"Tarrasque, i choose you!"

>> No.24605199

>>24605134
I do too, really.

I play in a combined setting. Tarrasque is a Child of Rovagug, but places on the opposite side of the planet like Eberron and Faerun have never heard of Rovagug. Tarrasque is just some big thing that wrecks everyone's shit for some reason, as it is "normally". And if you Wish it dead, it's not actually dead; you just sent it back to its birthplace in Pathfinderburg.


The Iron Kingdoms had even less of an idea of what the fuck was happening when it showed up.

>> No.24605218

>>24605193
or you just put that bag of holding in a portable hole and do the world a favour.

on a side note, has anyone tried using the arrowhead of total destruction against tarrasque?

>> No.24605229

Except the Tarrasque is always a threat.

You just refuse to believe so because you've been in too many hypothetical "what-if" scenarios where a non-existent party with an unrealistic set of skills and items uses an ideal combat arena to fight the Tarrasque.

>> No.24605282

>>24605218
>>24605193
Actually doesn't a bag of holding in another bag of holding cause a rift to the Astral Plane?

Certainly gets rid of the problem though.

As for the arrowheads of annihilation, I thought the rip was of a set size, like 10ft. But I have no idea WHERE that number comes from in my head.

>> No.24605284

>>24605218
The Tarrasque is massive. Isn't the anomaly produced by the weapon only like 10' in radius? If you only suck part of the Tarrasque through and the portal closes, which half regenerates?

Both?

>> No.24605334

>>24605282
>>24605284
I think you guys are right. So I need to find out how much surface tarrasque has to be able to suck it all of him at once.
I think putting a bag of holding in a bag of holding just disables both of them.

>> No.24605348

>>24605229
>non-existent party
>with an unrealistic set of skills and items
>uses an ideal combat arena
>to fight a fantasy character
>in a fantasy game

>> No.24605376

>>24605348
i think that aply to you too, because he is saying that in a normal campaign with normal leveling, tarrasque can still be a menace

>> No.24605500

>>24605334
>>24605282

"If a bag of holding is placed within a portable hole a rift to the Astral Plane is torn in the space: Bag and hole alike are sucked into the void and forever lost. If a portable hole is placed within a bag of holding, it opens a gate to the Astral Plane: The hole, the bag, and any creatures within a 10-foot radius are drawn there, destroying the portable hole and bag of holding in the process." (d20 SRD)

What's the difference between a rift and a gate in this context?

>> No.24605512

>>24605282
That and even if you put a bigger bag of holding inside a smaller bag of holding, the maximum size of the opening will still be the opening of the smaller bag.

>> No.24605551

>>24605500
Dammit D&D you can't say Rift then Gate in the same breath.

I have a feeling they mean it's both a one-way trip and only open for a short period, like a 6-second period.

>>24605471
this always confused me. I was under the impression that it was interdimensional dickery that caused the rift. So if you had a bag of holding and used Dimension Door, the same thing happened.

>> No.24605573

>>24605192
The DC save is 10+level spell+int modifier. Lets assume a standard 18 int, so we get +4. Charm monster is lvl 9, the dc save is actually 10+9+4=23. To get a 50% of success, we need to add another +7, and +17 for 100% success.

Spell focus + greater spell focus adds +2 to the save, DC 25. Add another +4 to int from fox's cunning, we have +2 to the dc, DC 27. We spend the 4 stat bonus from levelling to int, we get another +2, DC29. Headband of intellect adds +6 int, so another +3, DC 32.

Yay! 50% chance to success.

Can someone help me here? I am considering a human with 18 int, but I am pretty sure there must be races that add int modifier, as well as improving the spell DC.

>> No.24605587

>>24605500
rift:
>Bag and hole alike are sucked into the void and forever lost
gate:
>The hole, the bag, and any creatures within a 10-foot radius are drawn there, destroying the portable hole and bag of holding in the process."
so the rift just makes the hole and the bag disappear while the gate sucks everything to the astral plane. which means I'll only need one arrowhead to make tarrasque disappear

>> No.24605594

>>24605573
Headband and Fox's Cunning won't stack. The magic item comes from the spell.

>> No.24605692

>>24605587
Yes, everything within 10ft of the tiny portable hole and the tiny bag of holding gets sucked into the hole. Nothing in those rules say the items being directly touched get sucked in automatically, but its usually Medium sized humanoids flipping off the gods and putting the two items together.

We can only assume that a single arrow takes care of things within a 20ft diameter sphere (and things smaller than 20ft, which is Huge and less)

>> No.24605704

>>24605594
Shit, lets remove fox's cunning given that headband grants +3. So, humn, DC30, still a 50% chance to success.

Elf grants +2int, so I suppose we could pick that race for another +1 (DC 31), but I suppose there are better race than that for an enchantress who tries to dominate the tarrasque.

>> No.24605737

>>24605573
>>24605704
Gray elves and drow come to mind. Gray elf is better since it's no EL modification.

Dammit. We are just 1 away from a clean 50% chance. Time to check the Magic Item Compendium. I bet it has magic items for both this and the Spell Resistance. Something like a rope with 3 charges per day or something.

>> No.24605770

>>24605704
Assuming PF here, you could also have a witch in your group that uses Dire Prophecy to reduce his Save by either -4 or their caster-level. The problem is that they would need to get him to fail a will-save first. Then again, PF tarrasque "only" has a +12 will-save

>> No.24605792

>>24605737
You could also get an inherent bonus from wish/tome of clear thought.

>> No.24605863

>How to fix the Tarrasque in 3.5

Use Magic of Incarnum. It will make the Tarrasque a rape machine

>> No.24605877

>>24605737
>http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-handbook-ii--80/arcane-thesis--104/
>Choose one arcane spell that you can cast to be your thesis spell. When casting that spell, you do so at +2 caster level.

How does that fit? If I got it right, it adds another +2 to the DC (caster level), right?

DC 33 now.

>> No.24605878

>>24605284
If it can be done once, it can be done 10,000 times

>> No.24605893

>>24604028
the tarrasque is the anchor point of the mortal plane, he cant be killed by tossing him in a volcano, and when you "perma" kill him he wakes up in a few hundred years. and you cant transport him to the elemental plane of fire

>> No.24605905

VEIL OF ALLURE
Price (Item Level): 14,000 gp (14th)
Body Slot: Face
Caster Level: 5th
Aura: Faint; (DC 17) transmutation
Activation: —
Weight: —
Dyed in swirls of pink and purple, this semi-transparent veil looks like the garb of a sultan’s
harem dancer.
A veil of allureincreases the save DC of your
enchantment spells or spell-like abilities,
as well as the Charisma-based save DCs
of your extraordinary or supernatural
abilities, by 2.
Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item,
eagle’s splendor.
Cost to Create: 7,0 0 0 g p, 560 XP,
14 days

From Magic Item Compendium.

We at 35 now. The Tarrasque has a 25% change of making the save.

Still need to worry about SR.

>> No.24605911

>>24605878

So you end up with an army of Tarrasques on the Astral Plane?

>> No.24605943

>>24605911
This is an intersting idea. If i cut a small part off of tarrasque, does that piece regenerate into a full-blown tarrasque?

>> No.24605978

He still is. In every edition.

For fuck's sake, people whine about how "X edition ruined X" but any DM even a newb DM doing minimum online research can modify an encounter to make it more fun/balanced.

With something as legendary as the Tarrasque no DM is going to make it a walk in the park in any edition.

>> No.24605998

Tarrasque will threaten any non-epic characters (except min-maxed wizards, druids, planar shepherds etc)

>> No.24606011

>>24605943
i assume that it rots and grows back,

if cut exactly in half perfectly then one side would die and the other regen

>> No.24606087

>>24605943
>If the tarrasque loses a limb or body part, the lost portion regrows in 1d6 minutes (the detached piece dies and decays normally).

>> No.24606109

>>24606011

So wait, if we just keep cutting it in half, we could have the fantasy version of Zeno's Paradox?

>> No.24606146

>>24605978
>Fly spell

>> No.24606164

>>24605905
Big risk, big reward.
>http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-handbook-ii--80/arcane-consumption--89/
>Once per day as a swift action, you can grant the next spell you cast a +4 bonus on its save DC.

DC 39.

THIRTY NINE!

Fuck it, that tarrasque is our bitch now. Literally.

>> No.24606166

>>24606109
yeah as long as you have the exact same number of atoms on either side

>> No.24606242

The only time I ever perceived a Tarrasque as a horrifying threat was in the Bag-World threads, where it was described that from all the pieces shoved into Bags of Holding to keep them from regenerating into another Tarraesque have come together and become a massive FrankenTarrasque.

>> No.24606245

>>24606166

Who says we're stopping at atoms? I want to see if the Tarrasque has any Higgs Bosons.

>> No.24606255

>>24605905
>Still need to worry about SR.

Spell resistance 32.

Minimal caster level to use dominate monster is 17, so we need to a 15 on the roll to defeat the spell resistance.

Wait!
>>24605877

+2 caster level. Therefore, our caster level for this check is 19. +13 more to beat the Tarrasque SR.

>> No.24606483

>>24606255
Fortify spell to increase dominate monster to lvl 10, adding +2 to the SR roll. However, >>24605877 arcane thesis reduces the caster lvl by 1, so is still a lvl 9 spell.

Still +11 away from beating the tarrasque SR.

>> No.24606487

>>24603948
>You mean every edition except 3.Xe?
>
>Yes.

A commoner with a bow and a horse can send the 4e tarrasque packing.

>> No.24606882

>>24604176
>>24604576
>>24604578
>>24604923
Understand that there are 3 different mechanics we are talking about here.

Energy Drain:

Some horrible creatures, especially undead monsters, possess a fearsome supernatural ability to drain levels from those they strike in combat. The creature making an energy drain attack draws a portion of its victim’s life force from her. Most energy drain attacks require a successful melee attack roll—mere physical contact is not enough. Each successful energy drain bestows one or more negative levels (the creature’s description specifies how many). If an attack that includes an energy drain scores a critical hit, it drains twice the given amount. A creature gains 5 temporary hit points (10 on a critical hit) for each negative level it bestows (though not if the negative level is caused by a spell or similar effect). These temporary hit points last for a maximum of 1 hour.

as opposed to Ability Drain:

This effect permanently reduces a living opponent’s ability score when the creature hits with a melee attack. The creature’s descriptive text gives the ability and the amount drained. If an attack that causes ability drain scores a critical hit, it drains twice the indicated amount (if the damage is expressed as a die range, roll two dice). Unless otherwise specified in the creature’s description, a draining creature gains 5 temporary hit points (10 on a critical hit) whenever it drains an ability score no matter how many points it drains. Temporary hit points gained in this fashion last for a maximum of 1 hour.

Some ability drain attacks allow a Fortitude save (DC 10 + ½ draining creature’s racial HD + draining creature’s Cha modifier; the exact DC is given in the creature’s descriptive text). If no saving throw is mentioned, none is allowed.
Points lost to ability drain, is permanent, though restoration can restore even those lost ability score points.

>> No.24606898

>>24606882

And finally Ability Damage:

This attack damages an opponent’s ability score. The creature’s descriptive text gives the ability and the amount of damage. If an attack that causes ability damage scores a critical hit, it deals twice the indicated amount of damage (if the damage is expressed as a die range, roll two dice).

Points lost to ability damage return at the rate of 1 point per day (or double that if the character gets complete bed rest) to each damaged ability, and the spells lesser restoration and restoration offset ability damage as well.

Ability Damage is essentially a weaker form of ability drain.

>> No.24606905

>>24606487
He's never going to hit, and IIRC the 4e tarrasque regenerates.

>> No.24606914

>>24606898
As for the legendary claws. As you admit that is a houserule, but not actually based on the rules.

>> No.24606948

>>24606914
So yes, you can kill a tarrasque with an Allip in 3.5. And yes, the biggest danger is being scented out in the process. I'm sure there is some scent defeating spell out there to accomplish this.

>> No.24606956

>>24606905

Tarrasque is never going to hit him, either. So you might need a couple commoners.

>> No.24606972

>>24606948
>So yes, you can kill a tarrasque with an Allip in 3.5

But you can't. The 3.5 tarrasque is immune to ability damage.

>> No.24606994

>>24606948
There it is, "Remove Scent," you can find it on page 173 of the spell compendium.

>> No.24607008

>>24606972
Ok either you are trolling or you are not reading the rules I just posted. The tarrasque is immune to ability damage, but not ability drain.

>> No.24607035

>>24607008
>The tarrasque is immune to ability damage, but not ability drain.

Why would a creature immune to ability damage not be immune to ability drain?

Spell resistance and spell immunity work in a similar fashion, I believe. A spell that ignores spell resistance ignores immunity. Spell immunity is more powerful spell resistance, ability drain is more powerful ability damage.

>> No.24607043

>>24604923

Every single retort you just made was wrong. The least wrong was the Silent Image bit - but that assumes an INT 3 monster will ignore a scentless illusion.

Then you resort to:
Houserules
Lack of reading comprehension
Whining - the Unseen Servant isn't required at all. It's totally harmless.

>> No.24607054

>>24607008
As I stated way back when, no other creatures in the monster manual have immunity to ability drain though plenty are immune to ability damage. This makes it look like an overall mistake on the editors, as ability damage/drain should be the same thing when it comes to immunities.

You can certainly blame the editors on that.

>> No.24607073

>>24607035

Ability Damage << Ability Drain.

That's why. They're two separate things that work similarly, but the latter is much more serious.

It'd be like saying "Why would a creature immune to poison not be immune to disease?"

>> No.24607096

>>24607073

See >>24607054

I get what you're saying, it's just nonsensical in the way other 3.5 rules are set up. As a DM I'd houserule a blanket immunity to both, and it seems like a misprinting in the first place.

But if we stick to the way the books are as-written, then you are correct.

>> No.24607137

>>24607073
That's a terrible comparison. Ability damage and drain are the same, except drain needs magic to return the point loss otherwise it's 'permanent'. And the attacker gets health back.

>> No.24607194

>>24607137

Not at all, both in terms of gameplay and in-char.
Ability damage is HEALABLE DAMAGE. Like, if you smoke pot, you may feel high for a time(wis damage). It will return to normal over time.
If you fucking witness an elder god, you go mad. permanently. done. no way out (except magic)

>> No.24607209

>>24607096

Ability Damage is WEAKER than Ability Drain.

Undead are explicitly immune to both.

Making the rather common Ability Damage Immunity apply to Ability Drain is NOT what the designers intended.

The latter is clearly defined as far more potent and serious - damage is temporary, drain can be permanent.

The only reason you're in favour of it is because you think "It's stupid that the Tarrasque is such a pussy - hey, instead of me just giving it Drain Immunity, I bet that means that they misprinted Ability Damage immunity in over nine thousand statblocks and five monster manuals. I should fix that."

>>24607137

>Ability Damage and Drain are the same, except that they're different.
>the same, except
>except

Poisons and Diseases are the same, except that they're different.

>> No.24607246

>>24607054
To the contrary, I don't think it was a misprint, as the writers do seperate the two immunities.

>> No.24607262

>>24607209
>The only reason you're in favour of it is because you think "It's stupid that the Tarrasque is such a pussy - hey, instead of me just giving it Drain Immunity, I bet that means that they misprinted Ability Damage immunity in over nine thousand statblocks and five monster manuals. I should fix that."

...But I don't. The Tarrasque IS a pussy. I don't think I've ever used him in any of the games I've DM'd. I don't even like the concept. It just doesn't make sense that ability damage and ability drain aren't held in the same ability immunity barrel.

>> No.24607361

>>24607209
Adding on a healing factor and a magical roadbump (considering that many player parties can easily get restoration spells) does not warrant enough of a difference between ability damage and drain.

Poison and disease might be mechanically similar, but you can say that about a lot of mechanics in D&D that are similar but different.

I do tip my hat to >>24607246 and I hope you all learn from him as a proper way to present arguments. This does bring up an interesting point and does show that the drain and damage are two separate things in this one case, and one case supporting it is better than 0 cases for the other argument.

>> No.24607598

>>24606487
>A commoner with a bow and a horse can send the 4e tarrasque packing.
Are you actually retarded?

>> No.24607633

Maybe a more reasonable problem would be explaining how the wizard in question could get the "useful information" on the Tarrasque to know to summon allip given that the knowledge DC to know that a Tarrasque has immunity to ability damage, but not drain, and has the scent quality is, at a minimum a Knowledge: Arcana DC 58.

>> No.24607923

Transformation spell, get in there yourself.

>> No.24608707

>>24607633
to be honest, if I played a necromancer and was confronted with some strange unknown unkillable monstrosity I would sic all my drainers on it first just to see what happens

>> No.24609767

>>24607598
I doubt a horse can move faster than a charging tarrasque.
But yeah, D&D3.5 fucks tarrasque on the asshole.
Hard.

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