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[ERROR] No.24328493 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Name an assault unit in 40k that is actually viable within the game!
Melee is not viable anymore

>> No.24328526

Incubi?

>> No.24328544

>>24328493
Biomancy Mephiston

>> No.24328554

>>24328493
Fire Warriors, thoes guise awesome

>> No.24328556

Khorne berze-
death compa-
space mari-
umm
grey knights!

>> No.24328588

>>24328493

Divination Jet Bike Seer Council and only against vehicles.

>> No.24328599

>>24328526

Archon with Phantasm grenade launcher and shadowfield leading them(huskblade and soultrap)

>> No.24328611

>>24328556
>Grey Knights
still nope, 6e castrated them the hardest

>> No.24328613

>>24328544
name one not ig.

>> No.24328623

FARSIGHT WITH 7 bodygaurds of twinlinked flamers and fusion blasters.

>> No.24328625

conscripts

>> No.24328645

a swarm of Tyranid Warriors with a Tyranid Prime leading them. This has worked out very well for me

>> No.24328659

>>24328613
Mephiston isn't IG.
Nurgle Possessed Marines

>> No.24328677

cultists

>> No.24328679

What happened to melee?

>> No.24328687

Can this thread mention viable assault squad that is viable
within
actual
melee
combat

>> No.24328693

>>24328679
Overwatch and powered weapon nerfs

>> No.24328712

>>24328679
they were slightly needed while shooting got buffed to shit.

>> No.24328721

>>24328712

My Klaives got buffed.

>> No.24328731

>>24328693
Overwatch isn't that good on most units you'd actually be assaulting.

>> No.24328774

>>24328731
This. Everyone acts like overwatch is the assault destroyer.

One out of six shots hits guys. 1/6.

Unless you're assaulting a guardblob with kroot, you're gonna be okay.

Berzerkers are still a damn fine assault unit.

>> No.24328873

I always get rapid fired to death when I try to be assaulty.

Didn't rapid fire used to be worse, somehow?

>> No.24328896

>>24328873
Nope.

>> No.24328901

>>24328493
You are not accepting losses well enough. Everything except the most frail assault units can survive a volley before dying, and the ones that can't shouldn't be used for front attacks in the first place.

Have in mind that the few units that do get close will still fuck up ranged units as hard as they did before, the only difference is that getting there is harder. Which is nice, considering how many options assaults had to get close to the opponent.

>> No.24328905

>>24328774
HAHAHAHAHAHA
>Berzerkers are a fine assault unit
Please tell me in which scenario they are viable, and against which enemy , for most armies have an anti-assault gimick.
I have ran, 35 different lists trying to make khorne berzerkers viable, go ahead, give me a list and I can probably tell you I've tried it, in a 1500-2k list that is.
They are terribad and can't do diddly shit.

>> No.24328910

>>24328493
Chaos Daemons: the army.

>> No.24328937

>>24328905
METAL. BOXES.

Keep them in reserve until later turns, then get them next to objectives. Drop pods, rhinos, whatever the fuck.

>> No.24328953

>>24328774
Its not just overwatch the fucked Berserkers, its the fact that the transports they relied on to get anywhere got worse in almost every way.

In 5th, you could drive right up to the enemy, chill inside the Rhino, then pop out next turn and immediately assault provided the Rhino didn't move. These days, you have to get out a full turn before you assault, giving them a full turn to shoot you in the face while your zerks stand around picking their noses. Combine that with the fact that a mere 3 glancing hits wrecks a Rhino, and suddenly zerks don't have any way to actually REACH combat.

>> No.24328971

>>24328905
Mine do well when my Dirge Caster Land Raider doesn't blow up.

>>24328873
>Didn't rapid fire used to be worse, somehow?
Nope, Anything longer ranged than a boltgun got buffed.

>> No.24328975

>>24328937
>METAL. BOXES.

In 6th edition? That will end well, and be totally fine. It won't end well, your metal boxes will be shot to shit and the zerks will be walking.

>> No.24328979

>>24328901
>considering how many options assault had to get close to the opponent
wait what?
235-265 land raiders in a 2k or below game is a point dump
Rhinos, cant assault out of
The list is endless.
I do agree with you on the premise that assault is okay, but its hard as fuck to get close, though.

>> No.24329002

Drop pods Drop pods Drop pods Drop pods.

>> No.24329007

>>24328971
But at that point you're using a fucking Land Raider. Even if they reach combat safely, they can't possibly recoup that MASSIVE fucking point investment unless your opponent just keeps feeding them squishy units for them to devour.

>> No.24329023

>>24328937
>rhinos
>drop pods
lol, so I deep strike them or run them in and hop out, and hope to survive the gunfire that will ensue
0/10

>> No.24329027

its been a while since i checked the rules, but around the time 6th edition came out, i was still having good success with dark eldar. Wyches and Wracks are still really good, and open topped transports with 5+ saves are awesome for assaulting stuff. I remember i figured out a trick where i would assault with the wracks first to soak up the overwatch, and then assault with the wyches so that they didnt get raped by bolterfire. Plus DE sargent type units were still decent at challenges.

>> No.24329032

30 'ard boyz

>> No.24329034

>>24328953
You think getting Berzerkers to combat is hard? Try Chaos daemons. No transports. No Land raiders, no T4, no 3++ armor.

Fun times.

>> No.24329057

Dark Eldar assault units are still viable - especially in combo charge scenarios (since they can charge out of their transports).

Jetbike Seer Councils are tar pit goodness.

Hive Tyrants aren't bad still.

>> No.24329065

>>24329023
>waaaahhhh my MEQ's aren't tough enough

Kill yourself babby.

>> No.24329069

>>24328971
>land raider
>265 points for 10 people to assault and then after *potentially* (see that most armies have anti-assault) kill their target, they will get shot to shit nexxt turn and that is 265 + x (x being your assault unit price) that is wasted.

>> No.24329071

>>24329057

Dark Eldar are way better shooting, though.

>> No.24329106

>>24328493
Do Ork bikers still get to shoot instead of punch when they charge? Because that's the mark of a really competent assault troop if it's still a thing!

>> No.24329107

>>24329069
Boo hoo my T4 3+ unit with an assault transport isnt tough enough. Try T3 5++ or T3 5+. Then you can complain.

Fucking marine players complaining about not autowinning.

>> No.24329109

Fiends of Slaanesh.
And then any other unit from Codex: Chaos Daemons.

Necron Overlords and/or a Lord Deathstar all with Scythes.

Also, Monstrous Creatures with high T will shrug off most regular fire, even if it does hit. You'd be unlucky for the lascannon in the tac squad you're assaulting to actually hit you, but even then you'd only be down 1 wound.

Also, 2+ armour save units are fine.

>> No.24329123

>>24329034
you can deep strike then and then have an additional similar unit deep strike with them for free, and then if you have a blood thirster you have a gigantic "FUCK YOU" directly where you want.
but then they pick their noses for a turn and more then likely get shot to shit.

>> No.24329143

>>24329065
so thats implying that they suck?
thanks for the argument

>> No.24329150

>>24329069
PUT THEM BACK IN THEIR FUCKING LAND RAIDER AND MOVE ON YOU DIPSHIT

I swear to god the next marine codex should just be one list, with one wargear loadout to save these idiots any thinking.

>> No.24329169

>>24329143
I'm saying you're gay.

T4 3+ is plenty survivable. If they die, it's your fault.

If inexplicably your opponent has focused all their fire on your zerkers, then the rest of your army is going to fuck shit up like it's going out of style.

>> No.24329170

ymgarl genestealers still seem to work. Can move and assault the turn they come in. Have an extra toughness the first assault phase to better weather the assault phase and an extra attack your opponents assault phase for fun with rending claws. Bit expensive though.
Tervigons can pop out free gaunts to eat over-watch fire.

>> No.24329171

>>24329123
The shot to shit happens. And then you get overwatch. And then your two surviving models who aren't dead try to win the game but fail because all your dudes had to teleport into the open and your opponent had free reign to hose them.

New Daemons are not half as good as the old ones (even before WD update). Still working on getting a decent list up for them

>> No.24329175

>>24329107
Hasty generalization, if I wanted to auto win Ill role nurgle.
But even then your argument of "Some have it worse" still affirms assault is impossible.

>> No.24329180

>>24328611
is this a joke? They get their retarded special weapons in fucking overwatch and still get to carve the enemy up like turducken, and if they get challenged it doesnt matter because everybody done got a force weapon and a +3 save

>> No.24329203

>>24329150
Who do you play that lets a land raider live more than 2 turns, let alone not shooting the berzerkers after they wiped a squad, which your argument implies.

>> No.24329232

>>24329171
There's this stuff called cover...

>> No.24329256

>>24329203

berzerkers aren't an assault unit anyway, dingus.

>> No.24329272

>>24329175
There is an army that just got fucking printed that literally contains 0 non-melee units because psykers dont count.

If you dont think melee is possible right now then you say that daemons cannot be played.

As is it is the lowest tier 6th ed codex printed thus far but I don't think it is completely unplayable.

>> No.24329275

>new 40k edition ruins all melee units in the game in one fell swoop
>people still sucking 40k's cock like crazy and buying new shooty units at gouged prices to make their armies viable

It's like you 40kids just want to lie there while GW pounds you hard up the ass and laughs.

>> No.24329281

>>24329203
If you can't make an AV14 vehicle survive more than two turns, you're doing it very wrong.

>> No.24329291

>>24329275
Joke's on you faggot, I play IG

My army's been nothing but dakka since 3e

>> No.24329294

>>24329275

I know, I can't get a game for another system either. Sucks, right?

>> No.24329295

>>24329203
>berzerker unit kills what they touch
which army are they assaulting that doesnt have some sort of anti-assault capability (that isnt nids) in this hypothetical situation?

>> No.24329320

>>24328979
Deep Striking them, using communal jump abilities or getting out of rhinos in a position where they have no line of sight, like cover, if there is some.

Don't just put them in front of your enemy.

That said, Marines did get the short stick with these rules, right now it's better to use dedicated assault chapters rather than mixed ones to survive.

>> No.24329338

>>24329281
begging the question

>> No.24329340

>>24329295
>tau
>IG
>nids

Fuck you, I'mma say nids if I want to.

>> No.24329352

>>24329338
Begging the Autism.

>> No.24329359

>>24329320
other army moves away
you now have a less chance to make a successful assault

>> No.24329373

>>24329320
>Marines
>Getting the short stick in the new edition
>can move and shoot full distance
>one of the few factions with assault vehicles at all.
>units are exceptionally durable
>have the scariest deathstar units in the game
Yup, yall got it rough.

>> No.24329387

20 man crusader squads with a chaplain because black templars are awesome

>> No.24329399

Thread conclusion
>you can't make a solely assault army
Thanks GW

>> No.24329400

>>24329359
>other army moves away
>from objectives
>loses


Even if assault units don't kill, they can contest.

>> No.24329413

>>24329295
They'd still mop the floor with most army's basic infantry. You'd clear almost any objective.
You could wipe out troops from:
Tau
Eldar
Dark Eldar
Nids
IG
Orkz
Necrons

AP4 on multiple attacks at I4 will hurt a lot of different units. If you throw them at dedicated assault units or at something with a 2+ save, you're a fucking idiot.

>> No.24329429

>>24329340
>getting close to Tau or IG
>40,013
wat

>> No.24329437

>>24329399
You can't make a solely shooty army either. Look at the tau. They can't HOLD objectives. They plop warriors on them, and hope the rest of the army can shoot the enemy away from them. Because any unit that touches FW's crumples them.

>> No.24329445

>>24328493
Harlequins.
Striking scorpions.

>> No.24329459

>>24329429
>40,013
>not 40,999

Did you just come out of the warp or something?

>> No.24329464

>>24329373
"I have it worse than you"
Lesser of two evils argument
Let's just stay on topic on how assault is terrible now

>> No.24329487

>>24329034
>You think getting Berzerkers to combat is hard? Try Chaos daemons. No transports. No Land raiders, no T4, no 3++ armor.

Okay, this is bull and you obviously have not tried Flesh Hounds with a Herald of Khorne on a Jugger.

Guaranteed Turn 2 combat. Hell, almost 3/4ths of the time I was in combat turn 1. I don't think too many armies can brag about that.

Also Khorne Berzerkers just suck no matter which way you pull it, unless you do the boring as fuck (and overcosted) LandRaider+Kharn combo and really only Kharn is any good.

>> No.24329492

>>24329373
I meant assault-wise.

>> No.24329499

TH/SS Terminators
Tactical Marines being led by Tyberos the Red Wake
Ironclad Dreadnought with Lucius-Pattern Drop Pod
Bray'Arth Ashmantle
Space Marine Captain
Space Marine Chapter Master
Marneus Calgar
Asterion Moloc
Space Marine Chaplain
Ortan Cassius
Darnath Lysander

>> No.24329533

>>24329400
they obviously shoot them to shit, dumbass
>>24329413
>most army's basic infantry
and the rest of their army would just wave to them as they walk on up and wack them to shit.
I wish I lived in your community where opponents let you do that.

>> No.24329556

>>24328645
what do you arm them with?

>> No.24329574

From a Warhmachine perspective, assaulting really sounds retarded in 40k.
Not on which whatever is doing what
just the mechanics of the game with assaulting

>> No.24329605

>>24329533
>and the rest of their army would just wave to them as they walk on up and wack them to shit.
Why are they not tied up by the rest of YOUR army.
Jesus fuck. Units only work if used in conjuction with other units.
You can't say "Berzerkers are useless because if you assault Firewarriors you'll be killed by Crisis Suits" because you're now comparing 2 units combined against your one.

>> No.24329612

>>24329574
>implying assault in 40K is anything other than running up at people and smacking them

So what you're saying is melee is retarded. I'm glad to know in the world of Warmahordes, nobody ever melees stuff.

>> No.24329639

>>24329605
Entire other army can''t suppress or stop his entire army in the time it takes for berzerkers to get into combat

>> No.24329642

>>24328774
>Berserkers are still a damn fine assault unit.

Especially considering you can ride a Dirge caster Rhino up to the unit their assaulting and deny the overwatch. I have had nothing but good experiences with Berserkers since 6ed.

>> No.24329644

>>24329533
Yes, because the entire point of 40k is to keep all of your units exactly where your opponent wants them, according to specified rules previously established.
What kind of double mon-kei-
>Suddenly remembers the Codex Astartes
Ahh, it all makes sense now.

>> No.24329664

>>24328493
Winged Hive Tyrant

>> No.24329667

>>24329642
with one turn of picking their noses with no cover
Do you have a way to avoid this, or do you just play against terrible people?

>> No.24329674

>>24329359
>Other army moves away.
>Out of position.
>When ranged attackers depend a lot on it to be effective.

Capitalize on that movement with another unit of your own. They know you will destroy them in melee, they won't stay close to your assault, but this could potentially mean moving away not only from objective, but cover and displacing their shooting range and sight, and place them under yours.

>> No.24329680

"assault-only" armies are dead yes. but assault can still work in 6th as long as its supported by some stuff to crack transports.

Anyone who thinks you cant assault needs to look at a codex thats not fucking marines.

> Dark eldar opentopped skimmer assaults
> Motherfucking 30 boyz in a red painted deffroller wagon
> The same Quad-Tervigon rapid-spawn bullshit tactics Nid players have been using since 5th since everything else in their codex sucks shit

These armies make assault work, and they do it without space marine stats, land raiders, and drop pods. Seriously, marine players need to learn to fucking play. Stop spending half your points on your HQ and get some fucking troops and pods. If your GK's, then stormravens or inquisitor squads.

>> No.24329704

>>24328493
Pretty much everything eldar have is viable except banshees and storm guardians.

Harlies, scorpions, seer council. avatar all do really well in their own ways.

Harlies are a huge threat and generally dont have much issue getting into hth.

Scorps can pull off big nasty charges though difficult terrain and have 3+ to weather overwatch.

A properly supported avatar is a statistical nightmare for your opponent and can take IC's worth far more points then him with ease.

Seer council does all of the above.

>> No.24329709

Canoptek Wraiths.

>> No.24329722

>>24329709

>buying anything that's not a flyer in the Necron Codex

Waste of points.

>> No.24329736

>>24329664
Not just those, I get pretty good mileage out of Carnifex's,Trygons, Hormagaunts, Warriors Genestealers and Raveners too in assault.

>> No.24329738

>>24329722

>using Cron Air

I can see why you're mad, since you hate fun.

>> No.24329739

>>24329680
I do all of which you said besides the drop pod because, yet again
>1 turn of nakedness non-assault
you can't just run into an army and also keep them out of LOS

>> No.24329776

>>24329739
place the pod in such a way that you can hide behind it and terrain for the turn you're exposed. Or just land straight in terrain to give them cover.

>> No.24329798

>>24329674
So you're avoiding the fact that
most units have anti- assault
and after that will probably get shot after (granted) they wipe out the unit

>> No.24329804

>>24329738

You're a shit Phaeron.

>> No.24329831

>>24329776
Guess so.
Ill will try this out and test this.,
I miss assaulting out of rhinos
Fuck it, I'm running khornism spac emarines with 80% imperial guard blowing everything up [/spoiler[

>> No.24329836

>>24329275
>Play Orks
> Assault is still Viable for me
Get Krumpt grot.

>> No.24329946

>>24329804

We may have forgotten our flesh, but I'll be damned if we forget our honor! There is no honor in Cron Air! Fight like a man!

Not like we have any particularly bad matchups in ground strategies, anyway.

>> No.24329991

>>24329946

But I was a commoner who murdered a Phaeron's Son and took his identity.

>> No.24330019

>>24329991

IT WAS YOU

GUARDS, SEIZE HIM

>> No.24330021

>>24328687
SHOOOTA BOYZ!!!

>> No.24330026

>>24329798
Shoot them when they get out of position.

>Spawn/Jump Assaults in cover or protection or whatever in a position that guarantees they can move next to the unit in the next turn.
>Place shooty units in range.
>They can do two things now: Move away and get shot to shreds or stay in cover but get assaulted and most likely die because only 1/6 of overwatch will hit, and Assaults still rape in melee.

>> No.24330045

>>24330019

Too late, I have this bitching Necrodermis, though.

>> No.24330082

>>24329642
they're*

>>24329667
I take a rhino with berserkers for the express purpose of extra fire and Dirge Caster. I never put the berserkers in the rhino because I take more than ten, and I mostly play with cover and footslog them so that they can protect my deployment and/or support my core troop choices. When they do go in the rhino, it's so that I can get them somewhere quickly. I can typically count on the vehicle they're in being wrecked (since lolhullpoints) so that gives them some cover. If the rhino gets destroyed, that's usually bad news.

Berserkers go into melee when the flow of the battle allows it. Mostly they draw fire with the people I play with, and when that happens I take the initiative to do other things with other units. Typically if I play right, my berserkers can hunt down roaming enemy troops and clean up the mess. I've had games where a squad of twenty tied up and wiped out 10 incubi in a raider on a mission to kill my dakka. They've also raped a talos pain engine or two, and shredded a line of predators because my SM friend had himself convinced that Khorne Berserkers were useless.

I won't argue that berserkers are THE unit to bring. I would take Plague marines over them, and in some situations, I'd even take thousand sons. But berserkers aren't complete trash and I like the unit and the lore around them, so I make them work. I'm also broke as fuck and I can't afford to buy more shooty units just because GW wants me to in this edition. I'm doing what I can to convert some Space Wolves into CSM but the going is slow and I'm also trying to finish a bachelor's degree.


I also accept the fact that your units are going to die in the grim darkness of the 41st millennium, where there is only war.

>> No.24330183

>>24330082

Amen. It doesn't matter if you win, only that blood is shed.

>> No.24330202

>>24330183

Heh, heh, sure.

>> No.24330249

>>24329281
>What are Lance weapons?

>> No.24330256

>>24330082
post list ples

>> No.24330260

>>24330249

What's a Land Raider Achilles.

>> No.24330268

>>24330249

Why would I take an Av14 vehicle know I was facing DE?

>> No.24330290

>>24330249
45 points each for a single BS3 shot.

>> No.24330358

why does everyone forget a bout cover saves? A darklance only has about a 1/5 chance of penetrating a LR IIRC (str 8, AP2 right?) and the marine player should be using smoke launcher or natural cover to get 5+ cover saves to make it even HARDER to lance them down.

Its meltaguns you need to worry about, not darklances. And even melta's can be dealt with as a LR player.

>> No.24330396

>>24330249
only 3 armies have those. And they're generally lower strength

>> No.24330508

>>24330358

The problem with LR though is that they are so expensive that generally, I can ignore them or throw a trap put at them/their passengers and just focus on mowing down your scoring units.

>> No.24330573

>>24330358
>A darklance only has about a 1/5 chance of penetrating a LR IIRC (str 8, AP2 right?)
Um... no. Check your math again. Penetrating on a 5+ = a 1/3 chance to penetrate AV 13 or 14 with a Lance 8.

>> No.24330758

>>24328774
Actually at 260 points for 20 kroot, 10 kroot hounds, shaper and 3 krootox the kroot could give a fuck about overwatch, they are going to get to that guard blob and tear it apart with AP 5. Oddly enough Tau now have one of the most cost effective CC units right now.

>> No.24330792

>>24330573

They have to hit first, that's what makes it 1/5.

>> No.24330896

>>24330508

This works until you run into the guy with a Tri-Landraider list. 3 Tactical Squads in LR's, and their all capable of splitting into smaller squads for scoring. Throw in some upgrades and an HQ for less then 1500 points.

6 lazcannons all capable of firing at separate targets, assault capability, and the only things your opponent can even shoot at are all av 14. All those str 7 rhino buster weapons the enemy bought? absolutely useless.

People associate landraiders with retarded point cost values because all they ever think to put inside them are terminators or deathcompany or other stupid deathstar units. Tactical marines (and fuck, even scouts if your strapped for points) work just fine in LR's. As for the lance and melta weapons, thats where the player skill comes in. (proper spacing and cover usage is really important against those armies, as well as prioritizing targets with your cannons)

>> No.24330931

Nurgle Spawn.

A lot of characters/MCs and ... whatever they happen to join for ablative wounds, if they can join units.

Hordes of cheap things (<=6 points) with multiple attacks, or, fuck, even without multiple attacks if they have anything else going for them. I'd say Blobsmen with power weapon Sarges and a Commissar count.

Tau Commander with iridium armor, shield generator, stim injectors, Puretide engram neurochip, onager gauntlet (not even trolling nigga).

Ork Nobz w/ Warboss, Painboy.

TH/SS Terminators, with or without characters.

Necron Tomb Spyders (in this case it's more like counter-assault, but they're still a ridiculous value).

Seer Council, various setups, as long as they have Fortune.

All manner of Terminators to some extent, against the right targets.

Incubi w/ Archon have been mentioned.

That's all off the top of my head.

Oh, BA Assault Marines IF with Sanguinary Priest.

>> No.24330960

>>24328588
bahahaha no
300+ points of extreme average. Guardian Jetbikes are far superior now.

>>24328659
>Implying IG players don't ally McFistin' in all the time

>> No.24331003

>>24330931
Lone Wolf with ablative wolves, or any SW character with them really.

>> No.24331046

>>24330931

Oh and Plague Marines, though they're not a *dedicated* assault unit, but the same is true of, say, Grey Knight Termies.

And mixed units of Crusader and Death Cult Assassin Henchies; Crusaders with power axes; DCA with mauls and swords; Crusaders in front, roughly 50/50 split.

>> No.24331122

>>24331046

Oh and, oddly, Necron Destroyer lord with mindshackle scarabs etc. w/ Destroyers. I see a lot of people run the dude with Wraiths but every time I do, Destroyers seem like they would have been better and more versatile, because all they need in actual combats is the Lord anyway.

>> No.24331314

>>24331122
The thing with destroyers is number of attacks and the fact that the wraiths benefit from preferred enemy, so on the charge (assuming a unit of 4 plus Dlord) it's either 8 attacks hitting on 4 wounding on 4 rerolling 1's (this is assuming you make all saves)

or

16 attacks hitting on 4 wounding on 2 rerolling 1's and rending that will generally be going first or few enough models will be attacking at initiative that you might take 1 wound.

Now not to say wraiths are outright better than Destroyers (2 s5 ap 3 shots on a t5 jump infantry is awesome) but a destroyer lord likes being in combat and so do wraiths while being jump infantry lets destroyers avoid combat to keep shooting.

>> No.24331479

>>24330268
List Tailoring Scum.

>>24330260
A miserable pile of Forge World.

>>24330396
What about meltas, railguns (haven't seen the new tau yet, heard they've changed them, but can't see it being true), fast powerfists, etc. There's a tonne of ways, most armies have at least one way of dealing with AV14AR and all the good ones have several *easy* ways.

>>24330896
Enjoy being shat on by fast melee units, becuase you don't have anything to screen and the people who have some high str/melta weapons along with buckets of Str7. Hell, sufficiant missilespam will do the job, and it's not like nobody takes missles.

>> No.24331492

Hammernators

>> No.24331559

>>24331479

This dumb cunt does't know that half the armies in the game (the unupdated ones) can't even put up a fight without tailoring.

>> No.24331584

>>24330256
I made a 1000 pts list on the fly for a fast game before class and it worked out pretty well. I don't have a ton of models and I don't power-game, so feel free to criticize the shit out of it. Especially if I did the math wrong, which is most certainly possible.

HQ
>Kharn the Betrayer 160 pts
>Nurgle Lord 115 pts

Troops
>30 cultists w/ 3 flamers, 145 pts
>10 csm, champ w/ claw, icon of veng, rhino w/ dirge caster. Flamer or melta, depending. 190 pts
>5 Plague marines w/ plasmas & rhino. 200 pts
>10 khorne berserkers w/ icon of wrath, power sword champion, rhino with dirge caster, veterans, and melta bombs. 285 pts

Heavy support
>2 oblits with nurgle mark for 76 each

It comes out to around 960 and then I tweak extra surprises from there. Such upgrades include havoc launchers on rhinos or bonus guns in squads. Sometimes I add more plague marines but I usually keep them at 5.

at 1500 points I add one heldrake and another squad of obliterators, or tack more Khorne Berserkers into the squad. At 2000 I actually drop the Nurgle lord and bring Abaddon because I have his model and he and Kharn basically frolic through whatever squad comes into charging distance of them. At that point the berserkers become more for show than anything else.

I typically play against Eldar, Deldar, Necrons, or Space Marines. Sometimes Blood Angels or Dark Angels.

General tactics include playing with cover and drawing enemies into obliterator fire as best as possible and only engaging on my terms. I typically leave my berserkers somewhere that they can hit back armor when that is the best option. This is more easily done against SM because the friends who play them are new and dumb. Deldar raiders fuck with my range so I often tank smash them because that rule is fun as fuck. I've never beaten Eldar as CSM but that's mostly because my friend who plays Eldar is really good.

It's no power list, but I like Khorne berserkers and I make them work.

>> No.24332170

>>24331559
But if you allow tailoring against them they're propper-fucked. Even worse then normally. So list tailoring does less then nothing to help them.

>> No.24332211

Reading this thread has made me realize why I fucking despise 40k.

And it's not because of the fucking game, or the players, or the rules. It's this fucking conception that in order to win you have to win in the FIRST fucking turn of the game. If it goes on for, god forbid, more than 2 or 3 turns, then it might actually be interesting. You fuckers with your quintuple min-maxed lists make me sick.

And here I thought I might give 6th a go, but fucking nope, you all get butt-frustrated that your murder units can't wreck shit on the first fucking turn of the game.

>But you just want all games to be balanced like chess, hurr even that's bull because white goes first, o-p white.

Fuck you 40Gayers, the game itself is fine, you just can't play a game that doesn't end in victory or defeat in the first thirty fucking seconds.

>Dirty fucking round base'rs.
>yes I mad 11/10 would be trolled by 40k again

>> No.24332218

>>24331479
> Fast melee units
Why is initiative an issue? the only things i can think of that have initiative of 5 or higher and aren't an HQ or shitty gimick unit (like genestealers) are fucking d/elder and slaaneshi units. In both of those cases, if your worried about losing melee to them, just dont leave the landraider until youve softened them up a bit (remember those twin linked heavy bolters LR's have? They tend to chew up 4+ armor save units like the ones i just listed.)

>High str/melta guns
Melta is a valid issue, but can be mitigated alot by keeping the opponent from reaching melta range. (properly bubblewraping your raiders with tactical marines and using difficult terrain to lower movement distance. As for long ranged high STR guns, use those cover saves and get in their face with the melta marines inside the raiders.

>STR 7
Literally not even a threat. Can't damage landraiders, and lazcannons can damage the str 7 gunners. Assuming you get your str 7 from dreds or preds, just laz most of them down before disembarking.

>missiles
Assuming ballistic skill 4, it takes an average of 10 missile to even GLANCE a land raider. 40 missiles to wreck one. 120 missiles to wreck 3. How many missiles are you planning on firing during the game? If your answer is 120 or more, how are you planning on scoring at a 1500 point level?

>> No.24332256

>>24332211
This is why I enjoy the lore, paint the miniatures and never play the game.
Enjoying Hordes a whole lot more that I ever did with 40k nowadays

>> No.24332296

How can a Blood Angel player make a good not overly expensive unit of Death Company? And don't say you can't because fuck playing blood angels without Death company.
I use a unit of 7, 1 pf, 3 power swords and the other 3 have chainswords and are used to take the first few wounds. I add in a rechlusiarc and slap them in a drop pod and land it as close to the enemy as possible with LOS blocking terrain.
I'm thinking of taking out a power sword because I always end up wiping any unit they charge

>> No.24332326

Incubi rape everything but TH+SS or equivalnet in melee (just shoo them to death).

Wyches are great at soaking wounds / overwatch for important units.

Best masters use khymeras to soak wounds and razorwing flocks to rend people to death especially when escorted by baron.

If you aren't taking baron with BM taking a max size hellion squad can be hilarious when they hammer of wrath.

Dark Eldar Harlequins can rend most things to death.

Archon +Huskblade + shadowfiled + drugs +grenade launcher +soul trap = rape.

Named archons like Duke are rapetastic.

Wracks/grotesques can hold their own especially when used to receive charges.

>> No.24332334

>>24332256

>Warmahordes
>not WoW the miniature game.

Do you even Wargame?

Seriously fucking tempted to look up the Kings of War game for Mantic, just because I might get to, you know, use fucking Tactics in a game.

Jesus guys, it's only in 40k I hear shit like;

>Spend more than half your points on HQ choices
>3 Land raider lists in Casual
>My one unit cannot kill the entire enemy army BY ITSELF, BROKE GAME, DEAD EDITION

atleast in fantasy games you have more than 3 turns before losing/winning

>> No.24332364

>>24332211

Yah alot of 40k players are really bad like that. No counter argument i can offer unfortunately. Luckily there are still a few players who are willing to just throw down some orks and see what the fuck happens. And if they beat a min/maxed grey knight list in the process? All the better. (:

>> No.24332389

>>24332211
Bro calm down, not everyone plays like that. I use necron and blood angels and usually play against my tau playing friend. The games are usually neck and neck until end turn and we always have a great time.
Just play with people who don't look at 40k as a highly competitive tournament game. You can usually tell the type within the first ten minutes of a game. I fucking hate those kind of people and that really killed tournament play for me.

>> No.24332482

>>24332218
Fast as in movement speed. As in something with powerfists on wheels or something. Not the main way of doing it, but it's there.

Marines aren't great at bubblewrap duty. And if you're bubblewrapping a LR you're slowing down the LR, so it's not going to get up and melting that fast.

Was only mentioning the STR7 as in they have the stuff that's a threat to LRs *and* the stuff that's a threat to pretty much everything else (like bubblewraps made of exxy marines) still. Guess that was unclear. Whoops.

Missiles were more mentioned as a sideline, though that's worse then I thought on the statistics. But if you're taking 3 LRs, you don't have much else to fire the missiles at most likey.

>> No.24332544

suicide sle-

oh wait they updated the dark eldar codex

>> No.24332735

>>24332211

B-but Anon-k-kun, I'd love to play a 7-turn game of 40K with you...

>> No.24332843

>>24328493
Assault units are still quite useful. Not something to build your entire army around (unless you play Daemons since then you don't really have much choise), but sometimes you need to remove units from cover or tie them up in combat (there's plenty of units that are quite difficult to remove with shooting, but suck in combat so even a mediocre assault unit will eighter kill them or tie them down).

Good assault units:
Necron Wraiths, preferrably with a Destroyer Lord (fast, tough and with lots of s6 attacks. The D-Lord has a 2+ save, ap1 weapon and I-Win Scarabs).
DE Beastmasters with Baron (fast, mix of lots of wound and 4++ saves, Baron gives them stealth, grenades and hit and run).
Eldar Harlequins, with Farseer and preferrably Archon/Phoenix Lord (rerollable 2+ coversaves, large amount of attacks with furious charge, hit and run).
Chaos Spawn (Cheap, durable and fast. Great thowaway assault unit).

>> No.24332851

As expected of 40kids.

We glorious Fantasy masterrace have had a buffed "Overwatch" since ever, np.

>> No.24332918

>>24328774
Ovewatch suck if you play DE. Wytches really don't like getting shot before assault (charging a 10man marine squad with a Flamer ends up with nearly half your Wytches dead before the combat begins). Even Incubi suffer from having low toughness and usually being wielded in small squads.

Marine on the other hand don't give a crap about overwatch, unless you're stupid enough to charge a squad where every single member carries a plasmagun.

Berserkes still suck, tho. It's not overwatch that did them in, but the change to assaulting from vehicles. Previously if you disembarked a stationary vehicle you could assault out of it. Now you can't, so Berserkes in a Rhino have to spend one turn standing around, giving the enemy time to shoot them ore redeploy. You can migitate this by giving them a Landraider, but that's a lot of points and a valuable HS slot spend to make what is ultimately a fairly mediocre assault unit viable.

>> No.24332979

>>24332482
> Fast as in movement speed.

Ah, thought you meant initiative. Most common melee attacks that a LR would need to be afraid of are chainfists, dreds, and monstrous creatures. Against all of those, id utilize a strategy similiar to how I deal with meltaguns. The beauty of the standard LR is that you dont HAVE to go whole-hog assault if you dont want to, you can still kite your opponent with lazcannons and melta-tacticals if you want. (Though this obviously makes it tougher to get to objectives.)

> Marines aren't great at bubblewrap duty.

True, but there far from the worst at bubblewrap too. There also great at keeping people from tank shocking due to how good they are at death or glory (1 standard meltagun for 10 points and 1 free multimelta)

As for slowing down the LR, if im facing something that i would want to bubblewrap the LR against (such as a melta) im not going to drive right into them anyway. Id rather play a spacing game. (im used to doing that anyway with dark eldar, its not too difficult as long as you determine what all the terrain is at the start of the game)

> STR7

Maybe ive just never fought a list capable of it, but Im having a hard time imagining a 1500 list capable of having enough melta to make me bubblewrap my LR's (instead of just lazing down the melta rhino's) that would also have enough autocannons to pose a legitimate threat against marines. (The list would also need to be capable of scoring). Maybe 6 melta rhinos and 3 dakka preds? I'd imagine you'd need to skimp pretty hard on your HQ and upgrades to do that. Killpoints would be harder too.

>> No.24332990

>>24330290
25 for bs4, 15 with blasters (less range but they're assault weapons). Eldar lances are ridiculously overpriced. DE get them for a more reasonable price.

>> No.24333088

>>24332918

Did DE get FAQ'd so that you cant tie up enemies in close combat with a sacrificial unit before charging with the wyches? If thats still legit, then just charge the enemy with wracks first and THEN the wyches. Wracks laugh at over-watch. Like, literally. I used to do maniacal villain laughs while doing that. Combined charges make DE assaults actually work. That and hommunculi (YUM pain tokens)

>> No.24333165

>>24332918
>Berserkers in a rhino
>in a rhino
>in a
>in

One more time: you don't deploy them in the rhino.

>> No.24333203

A full stack of cultists drop 133 attacks on the charge, also you can have 3 flamer templates in there as well. Run 8. Tarpit like a boss. Have Maulerfiends ruin vehicles day's. Have a Daemon Prince w/ Wings, Power Armor and either the Axe of Blind Rape or Black Mace to ruin any tough units. Or hell, throw in a Murder Sword. Add either Plague Marines for tankiness or Berzerkers for killiness. Kharn for the lols to shit on everyone's dick (7 attacks, hits 2+ no matter what, strength 7 or 8 with Gorechild's strength bonus).

TL,DR; Chaos Marines can assault like mother fuckers.

>> No.24333235

>>24332918
Berzerks are best as a support assaulter; get them to a unit that's already in CC then ram them right up the opponent's hindquarters. Works pretty much every time.

>> No.24333389

>>24333165

Berserkers...on top of a Rhino...?

>> No.24333393

>>24332979

Vanilla meltas are 5 points.

>> No.24333427

>>24333389
Oh god, this is so stupid its genius

are their rules prohibiting this?

>> No.24333483

Howling Ban-
no
Scorpion-
no
Autrach or Vypers?
I hope and pray to Isha because making assault phases without melee combat is confusing, arbitrary, and stupid.

>> No.24333600

>>24330758

>Kroot
>cost effective CC

Pick one.

215 points buys you 30 Orks that are Fearless, Str 4 on the charge with the same armour save AND a total of 120 attacks at WS4, PLUS 4 Str 9 Ap2 attacks. 260 points on Kroot gets you 70 Str 3 attacks plus 9 Str 6 attacks, all at WS4. And let's not forget that the Orks can also toss out 30 Str 4 shots on the way in, something the Kroot can't do at all as none of their weapons are assault.

Kroot are terrific light skirmishers, but don't mistake them for a CC unit. They're utterly dreadful in that role.

>> No.24333671

>>24329065

>broadsides doing anything to Dreadnoughts

hahahahahahhahahaha

>> No.24333688

>>24333671
A broadsid will glance a dread to death long before it gets into firing range, unless it's a mortis-pattern loaded out for long-range support.

>> No.24333699

>>24329680

> Motherfucking 30 boyz in a red painted deffroller wagon

I fucking wish. Battlewagons hold 20 Boyz tops. They're also not fast transports and they explode like fireworks due to their incredibly long AV12 sides.

>> No.24333731

>>24329499

>Tactical Marines being led by Tyberos the Red
Wake

Are tacs really that good under Tyberos? I always assumed bikes would be... given how they can suddenly put out a crapload of attacks on the charge that allows them to actually threaten a unit in an assault.

>> No.24333741

>>24333731

Terminator with Bikes... You're doing it WRONG!

>> No.24333760

>>24333699
dumb typo, sorry. Red paint is still godlike on an open topped vehicle though.

>> No.24333801

Whats with the Rhino hate?
I realize transports have taken a beaten but they still have their uses.
I play Sisters, there are few things more deliously sweet then having 5-7 rhinos tank shock everyone back into their own starting zone, with a swarm of sisters playing fire suport from the mid.
And if they die, who cares, 30 points? Pfff... Since kill points are now just 1/6, apart from first blood, having many cheap units will only tie up shooting from a whole unit, for 30 points? I'll take it.

>> No.24333815

>>24328493
Space Marine Terminators with Storm Shield and Thunder Hammers.

Not a single fuck, 2+/3++. 2 attacks each at s8 ap2.

>> No.24333844

>>24333801

Rhino's are still good, just not for assualt. You play sisters, a mid-range shooty army. So obviously rhinos are going to be fantastic for you. lol

>> No.24333869

>>24328493
Just wait until 7th edition, where all the shooting units will be nerfed and we'll all buy up the new top-tier assault units that will be released.

>> No.24333891

>no-skill pussies whining because they can't get into assault without having to eat some shooting

Fuck you guys. You fuckers cry a river because you have to actually hug cover and move intelligently when shooty armies got the shaft for 3 fucking straight editions. Go fuck yourselves and learn2LOS.

>BAWWWWWWWWW I GET SHOT BEFORE I CAN ASSAULT

9/10 you still wipe whatever unit you charge.

>BAWWWWWWWWW I CONSOLIDATE AND GET DESTROYED

Yeah that's what happens when you charge through a hail of gunfire. You get shot.

>BAWWWWWWWWWW OVERWATCH

1/6 shots hit, and they don't cause pinning or force Leadership tests so you're guaranteed to charge unless you fail.

Can't make assault work? You're a shitty player. Period.

>> No.24334000

>>24333741

I'm not talking about Tyberos literally being put with the bikes, I'm talking just having them in the same army.

Tyberos exchanges combat tactics in your army for FC and in addition any marine squad who wins a combat gets rage. 3 str 5+1 str 4 HoW attack on the charge. on a scoring unit of bikers (provided biker captain) sounds pretty good to me.

>> No.24334013

>>24333801

Rhinos are good for shooty armies that need some cheap screening. They're no longer the mobile assault bunkers they were in 6th.

I honestly wish everything just got an additional hull point.

>> No.24334022

>>24333891

>you still wipe whatever unit you charge

Unless you're charging tau or half strength guardsmen.. no.

>> No.24334086

>>24334022
>no

Or Gaunts, or Wyches, or Eldar, or any of a hundred other units that have no chance of surviving a top-tier assault unit at 6+ members.

Stop crying because you may be stuck in combat for a round. Warfare involves taking losses, if you're not good enough to win despite that YOU SUCK.

>> No.24334120

>>24334086

But you want to get stuck in combat for a bit. Optimal time to exit combat is during an opponent's assault phase.

>> No.24337350

>>24333427
no unit can be within 1" of another unit.
they never said on top I suppose
we need to think more on this

>> No.24337372

GK Libby with Paladin Escort

>> No.24337488

>>24334022
every army has anti-charge capabilities too, so rage =poop

>> No.24337499

>>24334086
lol fallacies
>ur army is broken but its cuz u suk fgt

>> No.24337517

>>24333891
most armies can stop it, sit in a place that takes 2+ turns to get to, and have anti-charge abilities

>> No.24339802

>>24329027
Nice. I try a similar thing by using Wyches as a bodyguard for an Archon with a shadowfield. The Archon gets in front of the Wyches after they get out of their Raider and he soaks up the Overwatch shots with his 2+ invulnerable save. It hasn't failed me since and they wreck face the moment they get into assault.

>> No.24339900

>>24329709
My nigga.

>> No.24339942

>>24330082
Really? No mention of Noise Marines? They are by far tied for the best cult choice along with Plague Marines.

>>
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