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[ERROR] No.23927274 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

With the discovery of Empathy, we Peacekeepers have found the commlinks of every faction. In the interest of free information and collaboration I have decided to share these links with all of you, so that we may speak. As friends of course.

The first action we should take is the establishment of a council head. Naturally, as the Peacekeepers this task should fall upon myself. Does anyone second this motion?

>> No.23927346

>>23927274
>beep beep beep
>Peacekeepers r faggets
>Give head to all teh councils you want it wont bring your wife back
>Love,
>Miriam

>> No.23927400

Does anybody ever build the Empath guild before finding all the other factions the normal way?

>> No.23927408

>>23927346
That's hurtful...

And rude.

I don't think you are the real Miriam.

>> No.23927422

>>23927400
ALL of the other factions? Sometimes. It's much more likely for everyone to find you except one or perhaps two factions who got stuck on a different continent.

>> No.23927469

>>23927274
I always played Alpha Centauri with a single-track mind - blow the shit out of everyone else.

>> No.23927507

>>23927469
You missed out on a lot then. Nothing is better than coercing your enemies into changing to Free Market economies because you trashed all their solar collectors. No need to besiege a city.

>> No.23927875

>>23927507
I like conquering one or two cities in economically strategic areas, and then forcing them to pay reparation for 'my losses'.

>> No.23927902

YOLO 420 SWAG

>> No.23927970

Greetings humans. I : Judaa Marr.

Offer to trade : Valuable Technology.

Seek Manifold Caretakers : Destroy.

>> No.23927985

>>23927902
Shut it Yang. Don't think I haven't heard of how you're treating the people in your festering Hives.

I'll be sending inspectors shortly.

>> No.23928003

I heard there was a joint council session going on.

>> No.23928077

>>23928003
You don't even exist anymore.

>> No.23928115

>>23928077
The last surviving earth human is the ancient founder of all religion Snoop Lion.

>> No.23928149

>>23928003
Morgan, you seem... different somehow.

>> No.23928197

>>23928003
Wanna smoke some of that xeno fungus with me?

>> No.23928252

man, alpha centauri threads have declined.

>> No.23928278

>>23927400

Pretty much every time. Getting the Empath Guild is moderate priority for me so that I can try for the leadership position.

>> No.23928376

Legitimate question.... if the Imperium lands on Alpha Centauri before anyone transcends, what would they do with it? There you have a planet with non-mutated humans (Other than Cha Dawn I guess), and technologies far beyond the Imperium's comprehesion.

And I guess Lal would end up being best puppy friends with the Tau....

>> No.23928488

>>23928376
It really depends on what Mission Year they land on. Near endgame, the AC factions will laugh at anything short of a full Crusade, and once they've transcended, nothing the Imperium has is going to be able to ace 'em save the Emperor himself waking up.

Of course early to mid-game it's a whole different story since all they've got is missiles, lasers, and maybe plasma by mid-game.

>> No.23928510

>>23928376

>40k wat do
>legitimate question

>> No.23928569

>>23928510

Okay, "likely to happen in /tg/ " more than "legitimate".

>> No.23928587

>>23927274
Seconded

>> No.23928635

>>23928587
Lal: "And I'll form the head!"

>> No.23928656

>>23928635
And what if we object to that?

>> No.23928703

>>23928656
Get on my level, communist wannabe.

>> No.23928833

>>23927346
Should we overreact immediately sir? I have a Planet Buster with their name on it.

No one will know they ever existed. All you have to do is repeal that minor U.N. Charter thingy...

>> No.23928939

>>23928376
>and technologies far beyond the Imperium's comprehesion.
Actually the Imperium of mankind is on a pretty late game tech level. They have access to teleportation, antigrav and stasis generators. All of which are discovered in Alpha Centauri just a few rounds before you melt every man and woman on the planet into an enormous super being. So actually the moment the tech becomes beyond their comprehension is precisely after the trancendence.
Well apart from social techs obviously. The Imperium is really shit at those so they might learn a thing or two about economics.
It will probably start with a decades long war between the superior equipment of the colonists (while their technology is not exactly above the capabilities of the Imperium it is certainly above their standards from midgame onwards) and end when the planet after being ignored for too long undergoes the whole singularity thing and kills everyone on the planet.
The inquisition calls an exterminatus from orbit because then the ensuing death is technically just as planned and any surviving scientists from the planet will be divided between the inquisition and the mechanicum as spoils of war. They will teach them a thing or two until they die a few decades later without really making a whole lot of a difference, because everything the told them is borderline heretical at best and certainly classified.
In the records of the administratum file the whole thing as a success and the only people who know are the inqisitorial agents on Holy Terra since it is the nearest Imperial system. This begets the question how they could have missed this colony over the course of the last 38 millenia or why it suffered worse technical stagnation than the Imperium of man. The last knowledge of the clusterfuck that was the Centauri Crusade dies when the inquisitorial filing clerk that was in charge of compiling the report for his masters in the Terran enclave is burried in a tragic parchment avalanche.

>> No.23929077

>>23928703
Oh god....

I think I'm going to be ill.

>> No.23929432

>>23928939
You didn't bother reading the epilogue did you?

Once the Ascent to Transcendance is completed, no one dies, just those who choose to become, essentially, a living god. Re-sleeved immortals and robots are still in abundance on the planet, and the resulting god-being is more than capable of swatting away a few cyclonic torpedoes or Imperial Fleets that try to pull Exterminatus.

>> No.23929692

Win7x64 doesn't seem to want to have anything to do with Civ2 or AC. Anyone got some other ideas?

>> No.23929732

>>23929692

AC can be made to run, but it's tricky. Want me to look for my archived copy?

>> No.23929768

>>23929732
If you don't mind, then please do.

>> No.23929796

Data Angels ruin yet another council session. I wish Morgan hadn't decided to hoard his hunter-seeker algorithm for guarding his personal porn cache.

I'm pretty sure it would still be alive, along with the entirety of Morgan Polysoft

>> No.23929820

>>23929692
>Win7x64 doesn't seem to want to have anything to do with Civ2 or AC.
I run Win7x64 and I'm running the GOG version of AC just fine.

>> No.23929899

>>23929820

Then can you zip it up for >>23929692 ?

From the actual SMAC files, keep the executable, any DLLs and the preferences file (whch will be something.ini)

>> No.23929943

>>23929899
Not the man but - It can be found easily enough on torrents I'd say.

>> No.23930055

>>23929943
Yeah, found it. Let's hope it works.

>> No.23930249

>>23927274
I though the Peacerkeepers already had every faction's comlinks. I mean, it is on of their traits besides their godly free talent for every forth pop in their cities. Fuckers maybe balanced without any specifications, but they're perhaps the easiest way way of curving drones early on.

>> No.23930282

>>23930249

No, they DO get twice the vote for some Council options though.

>> No.23930289

>>23928703
>>23929077

>> No.23930355

>>23930249
Nope peacekeepers have the +1 talent and double votes for governor. They may also have double votes for other stuff but that charter sniffing asshat never gets to the point where he can call a supreme leader vote

>> No.23930398

>> No.23930445

>>23927400
I always go for Empath Guild as peacekeepers, second in priority only to Weather Paradigm. The Peacekeeper bonus stacks with project bonuses for votes. It's pretty ridiculous.

>> No.23930461

>>23930445
>b-b-but Yang-sama! Why does my vote only count as a quarter of a Peacekeeper vote?

>> No.23930519

>>23927274
My mind worms want a vote.

They get to vote, right?

>> No.23930551

>>23930519
If it were within my power I would create another dimension filled only with flames and hatred and send you and your disgusting monstrous worms there to burn and writhe in agony for all eternity, you bitch.

>> No.23930575

Cram it you commies and hippies. As the majority shareholder in PlanetCorp, the rest of you really can't challenge my position on the board of this council.

>> No.23930576

>>23928278
>Not focusing on naval expansion and contacting everyone before they even finish colonizing there starting continents.

>> No.23930587

>>23930551

>> No.23930660

>>23930551
Say that to my face old man not across the CommLinks see what happens

>> No.23930677

>>23930587
Mary had a little lamb...little lamb..

>> No.23930684

>>23930677
Go to hell I'm not getting that stuck in my head again

>> No.23930689

I've only given up half my humanity.

Guess which.

>> No.23930715

>>23930689
Must've been your top half 'cause you're still a cunt.

>> No.23930765

>>23928833
>>23930289
>>23930398
my fucking lungs

>> No.23930768

Alpha Centauri thread?

I'm glad I'm finally getting recognition!

>> No.23930771

>>23930249
Oh, is that why I had so many votes? I thought it was because I was so swag.

>> No.23930779

>>23930519
Good, EarthDeidre, good.

Soon we will also vote on EarthCouncil, and we will be elected Supreme Leader. Planetworms count as Earthhumans in vote, no?

>> No.23930802

>>23930771
No, it's because you rig the elections.

Why else would Peacekeeper votes count as two? Your Democracy is a farce.

>> No.23930804

>>23930779

I bet you are delicious with hot'n'sour soup.

>> No.23930824

>>23930779
Prune the branches of those that would say otherwise, my children!

We shall reap the faggot.

>> No.23930845

>>23930551

Provost, what about that Chaos Gun we were testing last week in the Superstring labs? There's a 21.8% chance that it actually does transports its target into another dimensional plane of existence!

I'm so glad to hear you're over Dierdre. I'll go get it and erase her from existence for you! You'll be so happy, and then we can go to the hologram theater, right?

>> No.23930855

>>23930824
Looks like it's time to make the Skye x Santiago Mind Worm porn appear on every screen on the continent.

>> No.23930858

>>23930845

I thought Aki had the hots for Zak, not Deirdre.

>> No.23930862

>>23930802
Nonsense! I have more votes then the rest of you simply because I immerse myself in all of those special interdepartmental meetings.

You guys have been sending delegates to those, right?

... Right?

>> No.23930902

>>23930845
>>23930689
Witty insult : Clearly the half given up was not the half your kind refer to as "being a needy bitch"

Seek witty retort : We do not, for you are devastated by our human like humour.

>> No.23930923

>>23930902
Damn. I think that's the first recorded burn by an alien to a human.

>> No.23930933

>>23930855
We are curious EarthRoze. What is this thing you call 'porn'? How does it involve Planetworm without us knowing?

>> No.23930969 [SPOILER]  [DELETED] 

>>23930855
*cough*

>> No.23931135

>>23930969
This image confuses us. We are not engaging in our usual reproductive cycle. Are they dying? Why would we do such a thing to EarthDeidre?

EarthSantiago would not be missed as much.

>> No.23931167

>>23931135
Deidre won't miss her. The Colonel has been locked up in Deidre's dungeon ever since the Gaian-Spartan War. There's a reason Deidre doesn't keep cameras in that room you know Planet.

It's like...spores.

>> No.23931174

>>23931135
You make us strong, no?

>> No.23931220

>>23931174
Oh no. Oooh no. That won't work out well for ANYONE.

>> No.23931413

>>23931174

warhams pls go

>> No.23931427

>>23931413
Fuck off

>> No.23931558

>>23931427
Now now, calm down everyone. No need to get violent. Save your Vendettas for Morgan and his moneygrubbing ways.

>> No.23931653

>>23930804
I never knew Yang was Cantonese.

>> No.23931724

>>23927507
>Nothing is better than coercing your enemies into changing to Free Market economies because you trashed all their solar collectors.

I can name one thing: rolling your hovertanks into their capital over the smoldering remains of their military.

>No need to besiege a city.

But that part's the most fun!

>> No.23931794

"Let's build the Self-Aware Colony!", they said! "It'll be a better way of life!", they said!

>> No.23931900

>>23931724
>tfw I'm always promising myself that THIS time I'll play a builder game and actually learn to manage my society properly
>tfw crushing the third puny opponent in my eternal vendetta

>> No.23931931

>>23931900

I don't know how it happened, but I have an unyielding thirst for conquest in any 4x game. Every game of SMAC I play inevitably ends up with me running train on Planet as the Spartans, the Believers, or the Pirates. Colonel Santiago will forever be my favorite. I've got nostalgic attachment; she was the first leader I played as when I was 10.

>> No.23931945

>>23931900
>23931900
Start off as the Pirates. Colonize nearby islands. Only own coastal bases and tiny islands. Do not venture far from the coast.

>> No.23931965

>>23931945

>start off as the faction with the best start militarily in order to play a builder game

Very neat idea, but it;d be far too much temptation for me. Blowing everyone else's piddling little navies out of the water with my Grand Armada is too much fun.

>> No.23932021

>Alpha Centauri thread dies on /vr/
>one starts here
Cooool. How many of you guys were talking about it on /vr/?

>> No.23932075

>>23931965
Sure! Blow their navies out of the water! But leave their non-coastal land colonies alone. When you own the seas you will be able to build as you please.
>>23932021
I don't even go to that place. Certain games just belong here.

>> No.23932120

You know, Miriam as a faction leader really doesn't get enough credit thanks to how aggressive her AI is in the game.

She's a cunt in gameplay, sure, but as the Self-Aware Colony project makes abundantly clear, the Believers' ideology does have some compelling points, and they're likely one of the most moral factions in terms of their research and social policies after perhaps the Peacekeepers.

>> No.23932515

>>23932021
I started this thread right after my first playthrough, and I have never been to /vr/

>> No.23932582

>tfw there'll never be Design Workshop in a Civ game
I want my machine guns on carts, dammit! Knights on bikes, archers on hovercrafts, is this too much to ask for?

>> No.23932628

>>23932515
Oh, you're new to playing Alpha Centauri? You're in for a lot of fun!

What settings do you all play with? I always play with Blind Research on. I don't like being able to choose what I research. I think it adds a more fun dynamic to the game that way.

>> No.23932639

>>23932582
>that feel when you first realize you can put Formers and Colony Pods on speeders and needlejets and helicopters

>> No.23932655

>>23932120
>Moral

They're literally ruled by the crazy evangelicals who build mega churches and think gays cause hurricanes.

>> No.23932667

>>23932639

>that feel when you first realize you can put Probe Teams on cruisers and rovers

>> No.23932688

>>23932639
>That feel when putting one on a hovertank, giving it the best armor and sending it out to colonize the shit out of the enemy.

>> No.23932694

>>23932667
That horrible feel.

it felt like cheating.

>> No.23932713

>>23932655
>They're literally ruled by the crazy evangelicals who build mega churches and think gays cause hurricanes.

Except that's not what the Believers are at all. Miriam, like every other faction leader, is highly educated, highly intelligent, and very erudite. Did you even pay attention to her quotes?

She's highly religious, sure, but she's nothing like modern Deep South fundamentalists. This is exactly what I am talking about.

"The righteous need not cower before the drumbeat of human progress. Though the song of yesterday fades into the challenge of tomorrow, God still watches and judges us. Evil lurks in the datalinks as it lurked in the streets of yesteryear, but it was never the streets that were evil."
-Sister Miriam Godwinson, "The Blessed Struggle"

>> No.23932715

>>23932655
>Edgy teenaged atheist projecting his hatred of religion onto a game

>> No.23932722

>>23932667
Probe teams start out on a rover chassis by default though! In fact even if you don't have Doctrine:Mobility you get speed 2 rover probe teams. If you change their design you can cheat your way into the rover chassis!

>> No.23932749

>>23932667
>>23932694
>be Morgan
>at war with pretty much everyone
>take a base within 4 sea spaces of another base -- I think Miriam
>stalemate in the war, truce declared
>start making cruiser probe teams
>probe Miriam every single turn, draining credits and trying to steal research

>> No.23932758

>>23932713
But that's not the point.
The point is that is the system she creates, whether she herself is one or not.

Read the description of the fundamentalism social program.
This is Saudi Arabia level shit.

>> No.23932767

>>23932713
>The Morgans fear what may not be purchased, for a trader cannot comprehend a thing that is priceless.
>Sister Miriam Godwinson, "The Collected Sermons"

Goddamn I love Miriam

>> No.23932775

>>23932715
>I don't understand the implications of a place ruled by an undemocratic theology.

>> No.23932788

>>23932767

> play Believers
> question the ethics of transhumanism
> build them all first anyway

>> No.23932791

>>23932749
>Trying to steal research from the Believers of all factions

>> No.23932801

>>23932791
>ran out of things for probe teams to do
>not rich enough to attempt subversion
I eventually got their world map.

>> No.23932821

>>23932667
>tfw you combine probe team with a foil and Deep Pressure Hull for the first time
Sweet mother of mercy, it's a spy submarine!

>> No.23932826

>>23932801
>Morganites
>Not rich enough to do something

>> No.23932828

>>23931900

I'm the opposite, I always play as a tech master and level up until I can steamroll over everyone at once.

>> No.23932852

>>23932775
>I am going to project the worst notion of religion onto a faction because I am edgy, teenaged, and also an atheist

>> No.23932859

>>23932828
Same here, but then I don't.
Slowly they all just grow to hate me when I refuse to hand them free shit for the eleventh time, and as they declare war and I burn all their cities meanwhile pleading for peace I ask myself. "Would the world not be better if I just bombed the shit out of every single believer?"

>> No.23932893

>>23932852
Boot up alpha centauri.
Check out the social positions Miriam favors.
Read their descriptions.
Now, once that is done, read why she gets a bonus to probe and combat.
Think of the implications
Then get back to me.

>> No.23932897

>tectonic planet busters
>make mountains all over enemy territory
>all the rain falls on the west side
>enemy bases on the east side
Enjoy your starvation-by-mountain.

>> No.23932903

>>23932859
Also the Gaians.
For some reasons the Gaians get ludicrously aggressive in my games.

>> No.23932907

>>23932859

Making friends with the Believers is impossible, I swear. It just can't be done. But in fairness, I know why, because they're my favorite faction

>"Hmm, I *could* make friends with this guy and let us both usher in an era of peace and prosperity.."
>"OR I COULD PUT THAT MASSIVE ATTACK BONUS TO FUCKING WORK"

THE LORD'S JUDGEMENT HAS COME, HERETICS, AND HE FINDS YOU WANTING

>> No.23932932

>>23930902
Excellently done.

>> No.23932936

>>23932903
They're SUPPOSED to be. They get really pissy at anyone who isn't Green, and once they figure out they can tame mind worms, they go nuts. Completely nuts. They canonically conquered the Spartans, as you know. Prissy defense-mongers do not conquer the most warlike of the factions.

>> No.23932983

>>23932893

Remind me what that has to do with oppressing their citizens as if they're in the dark ages, again?

Oh, right. They're religious. That means they hate gays, science, and puppies, as religious institutions and people have never done anything beneficial for civilization, ever.

>>>/g/
>>>/e/
>>>/t/
>>>/out/

>> No.23933001

>>23932821
This was mentioned on the /vr/ thread: you can use deep pressure hulls to build stealth helicopter carriers.

>> No.23933041

>play as Miriam
>conquer the unbelievers
>become Empress of Mankind
>purge the xenos

>> No.23933045

>>23932983
>That means they hate gays, science, and puppies
They DO hate science. That's obvious enough from the game mechanics and a quote from Miriam about plasma technology.

You seem to not be aware that pic is a thing that exists, Anon.

>> No.23933046

>>23932936

Playing as the Gaians makes me feel very strange

>My entire civilization is coated in fungus
>Swarms of mind molesting rapeworms patrolling my borders
>The skies are blackened with the numbers of endless locusts
>Horrifying creatures carrying swarms of OTHER horrifying creatures lurk the seas
>If someone tries to invade me, they can barely move through all the fungus, and between getting raped by wildlife and my swarming minions, can't possibly pose a legitimate offense

The only solution is nukes. Lots, and lots, and lots of nukes

>> No.23933081

>>23932983
Not sure if trolling, but you're completely ignoring the fact that that anon is talking about Alpha Centauri and not religion in general. And in Alpha Centauri, the Believers do indeed tend to go with oppression.

>> No.23933082

>>23933001
Uhm, no you can't? Unless I'm forgetting something, you can't combine DPH and Carrier Deck.

>> No.23933093

>>23933045
>The righteous need not cower before the drumbeat of human progress. Though the song of yesterday fades into the challenge of tomorrow, God still watches and judges us. Evil lurks in the datalinks as it lurked in the streets of yesteryear. But it was never the streets that were evil.

2/10, got me to reply for a while.

>> No.23933105

The thing that weirds me out even to this day in Alpha Centauri is this.

When you make missiles and you want to shoot them at an enemy, you sometimes have to go further than the missile's range. So what you do is you send it to an allied base. But you're not transporting it by truck, you're literally shooting it at the base. (The sound effect plays whenever you move the missile and you're limited by range.) The missile flies to the allied base, and then...gracefully touches down so that it lands inside a missile silo in that base, where it then gets refuled and sent to its next destination? That's the only way I can imagine this happening.

>>23933046
And then you discover Fungus warheads for Planet Busters...

>> No.23933122

>>23932893

Why are you projecting 20th-century fundamentalist Christian beliefs onto a different religion?

Miriam's brand of fundamentalism is not 20th-Century Christian fundamentalism; she makes it abundantly clear that she has no fear of technology, and nor should her followers.

>>23933045
>They DO hate science. That's obvious enough from the game mechanics and a quote from Miriam about plasma technology.

Literally the very first quote you ever see from Miriam explicitly says that she does not hate science. Being suspicious of unfettered science and lacking to a degree an inquisitive drive to uncover the mysteries of the universe is not the same thing as hating science.

I'm not debating that she is hardly the world's biggest advocate of technology, but she's not a 20th Century Bible Belter, either, and she does preach compassion.

Gaians are easily the most horrifying and abusive faction at the end of the day anyways, even more so than Yang.

>> No.23933156

>>23933081
I think people are just annoyed if the "evil pope" trope that gets beaten over your head in most TG related things.

>> No.23933158

>>23933093
I don't know what you're trying to prove with that quote. As I said, from game mechanics and the quote about plasma technology, the Believers heavily fear technology. Oh, and don't forget the quote about teleportation, where she wonders what happens to the soul when the body teleports.

>> No.23933165

>>23933122
IT'S NOT EVEN ABOUT SCIENCE.

Her nation is ruled by fundamentalist Christians, that they see a use for science doesn't change that they're woefully slow to adapt it and that they're literally ruled by religious precepts.
How are you not accepting that as a bad thing?

>> No.23933190

>>23933122
>Why are you projecting 20th-century fundamentalist Christian beliefs onto a different religion?

We've been over this. Atheist, edgy, etc.

>> No.23933238

>>23933158
>I don't know what you're trying to prove with that quote.

>I don't know what you are trying to prove with the defining quote of the faction

Game canon > GURPS book. Wondering what happens to the human soul when you teleport has nothing to do with hating technology; for a religious person, it is a perfectly reasonable question. Hell, it's a question everybody should be asking anyways, though not in the context of the soul. Am I the one appearing on the other end of the teleport, or is it an exact copy of my consciousness-but not me?

One of the major points of Miriam is that she is sometimes the voice of reason as humanity rushes toward technology that should give us serious pause, such as the Self-Aware Colony, whose secret project video makes it quite clear that technology has gone rather too far.

>>23933165
>Her nation is ruled by fundamentalist Christians,

Her nation is ruled by fundamentalists, not Christians. Please understand that the Believers' religion is not Christianity; it is an amalgam of major 20th-century religions.

>How are you not accepting that as a bad thing?

Oh, I don't debate that Believer society is hardly idea. I also, however, do not find much appeal in the idea of things such as the Self-Aware Colony or self-aware, self-replicating nanites, and thus I find Miriam to have some valid points. Religious fundamentalism is no worse than ruthlessly amoral science; the University has a drone penalty for a reason.

Lal is really the only leader who doesn't get up to some seriously horrifying shit across society as a whole, and even then he is questionable. I just think Miriam is unduly criticized when all of the seven do many, many horrifying things.

>> No.23933255

>>23932628
Well, it was my first one, so the only choice I made for settings was Citizen.

It wasn't as user friendly as newer Civ's, but the flavor was wonderful.

>> No.23933283

>>23933238
>Game canon > GURPS book.
You seem to think they just made stuff up for the fluff in the GURPS book. They didn't. It was all taken from the games and their manuals.

>> No.23933285

Hey faggots, quit derailing with your religious bullshit and let's get back to talking about how mad you are that I just literally purchased your entire civilization.

I have the deed. Here. IN MY HANDS. WHAT NOW, POORFAGS?

>> No.23933286

>>23933238

Actually, not unduly, but unfairly.

The Gaians unleash mind worms on civilian populations in the name of protecting a planet over human lives, Yang is Yang, Morgan doesn't care who gets trampled underfoot as long as he gets his comfy penthouse suite, Miriam allows her religion to swing too far into militant fundamentalism, Santiago creates a brutal survivalist society, Zakharov pushes the boundaries of science forward with wild abandon while leaving any notions of morality or ethics far behind in the dust, and even Lal has some corruption in the way he goes about executing his politics.

The Believers and Miriam no more deserve criticism than any other faction, is what I'm saying. Meanwhile, the Gaians get a free pass while committing-in canon-absolutely horrifying atrocities against soldiers and civilians alike.

>> No.23933288

>>23933238
You're trying to hard the Evangelical Atheist will only see what he wants to see.

>> No.23933316

>>23933283

In that case, I'd advise them to take another look at Miriam's faction quote, because-again-her opening quote makes it explicitly clear that she does not hate technology. Either you're misunderstanding her position here or they did.

Miriam is wary of science applied in what she views to be an unrestrained fashion. She is not a Luddite, and furthermore she makes some very compelling points about a need for humanity to think twice about what they are doing once you reach some of the more questionable late-game tech.

>> No.23933337

>>23933286
>The Believers and Miriam no more deserve criticism than any other faction, is what I'm saying. Meanwhile, the Gaians get a free pass while committing-in canon-absolutely horrifying atrocities against soldiers and civilians alike.

Honestly, I see the University get more of a free pass than Gaians, because TECHNOLOGICAL PROGRESS = WE ARE THE BEST

But yeah, I see what you're saying. The entire point of the game is that each side has its virtues and flaws

>> No.23933357

>>23933045
>At atrociously high energy states, the properties of matter change subtly and new miracles become possible. The Plasma Accretion process is now dangerous and difficult to control, but its products will soon become commonplace in our society.
>Sister Miriam Godwinson, "The Lord Works"

This quote?

>> No.23933371

>>23933316
Yet she has to be very careful when she introduces new technology to her civilization, as shown by the plasma technology quote. If SHE personally doesn't fear technology like it's the devil, her populace sure seems to. Otherwise she wouldn't have to lay it down so gently that "it's okay, plasma tech won't ruin our lifestyle."

>> No.23933380

>>23933285
>WHAT NOW, POORFAGS?

You already made it to orbital defense pods, right?

Also,
>pig disgusting 3D portrait

Is that the Civ IV Planetfall mod?

>> No.23933394

>>23933285
I shoot you.

>> No.23933396

>>23933371
>"Miriam hates technology, because she's religious."
>'No, she doesn't, and here's the quotes that indicate such.'
>"Okay well her SOCIETY hates technology, because they're religious."

Keep moving that goal post, buddy.

>> No.23933426

>>23933396
He's not your buddy, pal.

>> No.23933428

>>23933396
Keep thinking you have something to prove, buddy.

>> No.23933444

>>23933371

I'm looking at this quote right now (>>23933357) and there is nothing that indicates she needs to introduce this technology with caution. She's commenting on a new technological advance and how the Believers are rapidly adapting it-DESPITE the fact that it's dangerous-because it's useful. Nowhere in this quote is there a need to "sell" the technology to Believer society expressed anywhere.

You have misunderstood Miriam's position, man. Just let it go. She's a fundie, sure, but SMAC fundies don't hate technology, because they aren't our modern 20th century fundies.

Do bear in mind that part of a research penalty includes moral fetters on scientific research, exactly as the University has a research bonus because they are in no way opposed to scooping up a few bums and using them for human experimentation on the new biological weapon.

The Believers aren't saints, but neither are they demons, just like every other faction.

>> No.23933450

>>23933238
I am 23933165 and I don't criticize her more than anyone else, sans Lal and the Free Drones.
I just think on /tg/ she somehow gets put forward as the most sensible, which is patently untrue.

>> No.23933457

>>23933288
/pol/ wants you back.

>> No.23933475

>>23933444
>You have misunderstood Miriam's position, man. Just let it go
Damn, try to sound more self-absorbed why don't you? You're saying "I'm right and you're wrong and that's just the way it is" while accusing others of doing the same.

>> No.23933483

>>23933450
>I just think on /tg/ she somehow gets put forward as the most sensible

Huh, really? I've never seen this happen. Hell, I'm a fan of Miriam and I'd never advocate her as one of the most sensible, because, well, no faction leader is. They're all more sensible when it comes to certain areas-Miriam's being the need to be wary of some of the truly horrifying technology human society is unleashing-and less "sensible" or moral in others.

The great balancing act SMAC does by giving all seven leaders compelling points and compelling flaws is one of the greatest features of the game.

>>23933475
One of us has backed our position up with quotes from the game, and it's not you.

>> No.23933485

>>23933457
I am just pointing out that hardcore atheist like that never shut the fuck up about that.

>> No.23933492

>>23933475
>You're saying "I'm right and you're wrong and that's just the way it is" while accusing others of doing the same.

But you're actually allowed to do that when you have evidence to back it up.

>> No.23933522

>>23933492
>Evidence
You don't have evidence, you have your personal interpretation of a quote. Evidence would be game dev's clarification on the subject. Differences in interpretation are why /tg/ still talks about the same.

>> No.23933551

>>23933522
>"That's just, like, your opinion, man."

No, Anon. Words mean certain things. You have misinterpreted the words. I am sorry. You lose.

>> No.23933552

>>23933522
>you have your personal interpretation of a quote.

You mean "my personal interpretation" of a quote in which Miriam SPECIFICALLY SAYS that religious people don't need to fear technology, and that computers are not evil-people are?

How else, pray tell, would you interpret it?

>> No.23933587

>>23933552
Miriam's a dishonest cult leader. She actually means the opposite of everything she says.

I thought everyone knew that.

>> No.23933612

>>23933587
>There is enough space on Planet for my religion and your social experiments, Yang
>2 years later
>Vendetta declared again

>> No.23933616

>>23933522
>Evidence would be game dev's clarification on the subject.

There is no "clarification" needed; the meaning of the quote is crystal-clear, just as it is for every other quote in the game, since SMAC is a fantastically well-written game.

>>23933587

Are you serious, or is this a ruse?

>> No.23933634

>>23933616

I think he's joking, Anon.

It was a good joke, too.

>> No.23933648

>>23933634

Yeah, it's a funny joke. Just checking since this is actually something that other guy would say.

>> No.23933706

Damn this thread went to shit fast.

>> No.23933731

>>23933551
Yeah, we have a winner here. Sorry, other anon, but unless there's something major we're missing in the game, this anon is right.

Miriam still acts like a dick in the game, though.

>> No.23933746

>>23933706

It's all the fault of religion.

>> No.23933752

>>23933706
That's what happens when people discuss religion.

>> No.23933771

>>23933731
>Miriam still acts like a dick in the game, though.

I love Miriam and yeah, she is an absolute fucking cunt in the gameplay. When I was a kid playing my first game and I got something called a "Planet Buster" for the first time, I sent that flying right at New Jerusalem to test it out.

Results were..satisfactory.

>> No.23933813

DON'T STOP

BELIEEEEVIN'

>> No.23933894

Wow, looking at wikiquote and I just saw that the people who talk about the Gaians and their orgies are right...

"The entire character of a base and its inhabitants can be absorbed in a quick trip to the Rec Commons. The sweaty arenas of Fort Legion, the glittering gambling halls of Morgan Bank, the sunny lovers' trysts in Gaia's High Garden, or the somber reading rooms of U.N. Headquarters. Even the feeding bay at the Hive gives stark insight into the sleeping demons of Yang's communal utopia."
-Commissioner Pravin Lal, "A Social History of Planet"

Also, the Hive has 'feeding bays'. Eeeeeeew.

>> No.23933948

>>23933813

pls no Yang
pls stop

Planet, rape him, look at all his bases. He's fucking infinite city sprawling! PLANET, LEAVE ME ALONE, I'M NOT DOING ANYTHING. YANG, FUCKING ATTACK *YANG*!

>> No.23933958

Why is there any dispute over how much of a complete maniac Miriam is? Her diplomatic policies come down to "ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK," her scientists are complete incompetents and need to rely on spies to steal other people's technology, and she's explicitly antidemocratic, so she's likely set herself up as some kind of new prophet. She has her moments of erudite lucidity, to be sure, but she's probably the craziest of the faction leaders aside from Cha Dawn, and I don't know if he should count, as he doesn't seem entirely human (glowing pink eyes, can survive on Planet without an oxygen mask; my hypothesis is that he's part mind worm, and that his human intelligence is combined with mind worm instincts to destroy anything and everything that could be a threat to Planet).

>> No.23934021

>>23933958
And to clarify, it's not that the Believers hate and fear technology for being technology, it's that their society really sucks at instilling respect for the scientific method in its citizens. The Believers' deficiency is in original science, not technology.

>> No.23934024

>>23933958

We've been over this, atheistfag. You've lost. Stop trying to restart the argument.

Also, what madman *wouldn't* go maximum ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK as Miriam? Holy fucking shit, that attack bonus!

Although I've recently started enjoying making mass-terraformers for a builder strat. All the free units she gets can seriously give her a leg up in terms of economy if she pumps them out early

>> No.23934027

>>23933958
You're relying mainly on gameplay there. People here are talking about her quotes more than anything.

Also, pretty sure Yang is crazier than Miriam. And he's not only super-totalitarian, but seems, unlike Miriam, to utterly deny that human lives (or other humans' lives, perhaps) have any inherent value. Bad combination.

He's pretty cool, though.

>> No.23934111

>>23934024
I'm a different person. It's unfortunate that you can't check IDs on /tg/, otherwise that wouldn't have been an issue.

I have nothing against religion for being religion. However, Miriam's governmentally fundamentalist warmongering thieves-who-can't-develop-original-technology do not put religion's best foot forward.

>>23934027
Yang is sane, he's just completely amoral and his priorities are completely different from those of most humans. However, he still perceives reality accurately, so far as I can tell.
As for Miriam's quotes, I won't deny that she's intelligent and occasionally erudite. If she's right about needing to beware of certain technological developments... well, few people are 100% wrong all the time. But I don't even need her gameplay behavior to determine her personality, I only need her stats: preference for fundamentalism, inability to use knowledge, research penalty, attack and probe bonuses.

>> No.23934178

>>23934111

I don't care if you're a different person. We JUST had this argument. We LITERALLY FINISHED IT UP A FEW POSTS ABOVE YOUR OWN POST.

>> No.23934192

>>23934111
>Yang is sane ... he still perceives reality accurately
You can perceive reality accurately, and still be insane in your response to that reality.

>> No.23934208

>>23934178
You just can't stop arguing, can you? If you don't like the subject you should just leave the thread.

>> No.23934252

>>23934178
I'm making a different one. Mostly because your previous opponent was indeed sort of crap at his/her own. I'm focusing on the bad science and warmongering more than the technology.

>>23934192
True... Yang and Miriam are definitely the two worst of the original game, perhaps even including Alien Crossfire. But if we stick only to the original game, Lal and Deirdre are the two who seem to give most of a crap about their people, and Deirdre also keeps them the safest from the environment (not to mention keeping the environment themselves safe). They're also two of the most peaceful, along with Morgan, who's no worse than other executives in our own world, though he's rather blatantly disdainful of the environment with Free Market. Zakharov and Santiago are somewhere in the lower-middle, with Zakharov's experiments pushing the envelope more than Morgan's and Santiago just being a jerkass.

>> No.23934302

>>23934252
Yeah, Lal is a much better voice of reason than Miriam.

>The Warrior's bland acronym, MMI, obscures the true horror of this monstrosity. Its inventors promise a new era of genius, but meanwhile unscrupulous power brokers use its forcible installation to violate the sanctity of unwilling human minds. They are creating their own private army of demons.

...but he's so bland he's easy to forget.

>> No.23934332

>>23934302
Yet in gameplay the Peacekeepers just loooove declaring war on me any chance they get. They start more wars than there would be without them.

>> No.23934348

>>23934332
Granted; the Peacekeepers are actually less peaceful than the Gaians and Morganites.

>> No.23934417

>>23934332
>Yang
>quotes Chinese philosophers and poets
....yeah, not sure I like that. Sure, he could do that a bit, especially the Legalists, but he always strikes me as an unholy marriage of Marx and Nietszche.

>> No.23934460

>>23934417
...just saw that it does actually mention Legalism. Eh, OK.

>> No.23934484

>>23934348
Less peaceful than the Morganites, yes, but not the Gaians.

>>23934417
I always had a huge Chinese vibe off him. He's probably one of the first human psionics, by late game he's just a floating brain in a can of fluids , and he's big on community. When I think of a hive of ants, I think of Asian countries before I think of European communism theories.

>> No.23934485

>>23934302

Lal is pretty cool in my book. I just like Miriam more

>> No.23934502

>>23934485
What exactly do you like about her?

>> No.23934548

>>23934502
Her version of worship is just amerifat clapping at movie/holoscreens

>> No.23934570

>>23934484
>big on community
See, that's the problem. Ideas of the importance of community in China are almost always based on the family, not an abstract collection of individual 'people'. Yang's collectivism seems to not give a flying shit about the family.

>> No.23934612

>>23934502

Plotwise, she's one of a handful of genuinely moral leaders in an era where technology is going out of control. She views the spirit and ethics of a society as an actual important thing that needs addressing. She has an almost romantic way of conveying her ideals and inspiring people to greater things

Naturally, this all gets glossed over because >LEL RELIGION

Gameplay wise, I fucking LOVE murderizing the shit out of the heretics that dot Planet's landscape. Also, when I'm bored with that, I can just produce thousands of builders, terraform everything in a tenth of the time it takes everyone else (except for the Gaians, it only takes me about half the time as compared to them), and then send legions of Christian Superhackers to technologically assfuck my enemies FOR THE LORD

>> No.23934621

>>23934570
...just to follow this up, in the early twentieth century Chinese modernisers claimed the defining characteristic of Chinese society was a complete lack of commitment to society as a whole- people only cared about their own families and refused to work for the greater good.

Granted, that was because they were trying to convince everyone to join their (nationalist) revolution, but there's definitely something to that idea.

>> No.23934634

>>23934612
But... she's simply not moral. She's a warmonger, a thief and a tyrant. If anything, technology is the only thing she has any kind of moral high ground at all.

>> No.23934653

>>23934634
Also, she's completely insensitive to Planet itself and does unneeded damage to it, precisely because of said religion.

>> No.23934764

>>23934634
>A warmonger

The same can be said of literally every faction. Spoilers, MOST of them are out to get you.

>A thief

getaloadofthisguy.jpg. All's fair in love and war

>and a tyrant

WE'VE. HAD. THIS DISCUSSION. WHY AM I INDULGING YOU. FUCK OFF.

>> No.23934773

>>23934653
>she's completely insensitive to Planet itself and does unneeded damage to it
Planet is a goddamned monster, and the doom of humanity. Miriam's the only one who really understands that, until the introduction of the Manifold Caretakers.

>> No.23934815

>>23934764
You didn't have the discussion regarding Miriam's crushing of democracy, which is where I added the "tyrant" part. Also, not all factions are explicitly aggressive; hell, even the Spartans are less bloodthirsty than the Believers.

>>23934773
Planet's sapient mind isn't connected very well to its instinctive defenses... in any case, it's the only hope of humanity's salvation. Thankfully, in canon, Deirdre pulls off Transcendence anyway.

>> No.23934821

>>23934764
>thinking thievery is morally irrelevant

>> No.23934830

>>23934764
>WE'VE. HAD. THIS DISCUSSION
(not that anon) I'm not seeing it. There's not much about her political system in this thread. Also, you're a little mad.

>> No.23934847

Time for Cha Dawn.

>> No.23934854

>>23934815
>it's the only hope of humanity's salvation. Thankfully, in canon, Deirdre pulls off Transcendence anyway.
Humanity doesn't need "salvation" except from Planet. Transcendence isn't a good thing.

>> No.23934861

>>23934821
While it's true that all factions can use probe teams, Miriam's scientists are so shitty that she has to rely on probes to get anywhere with technology. I almost wonder if her "dissent" is really just a face-saving effort to cover for her technological deficiencies.

>>23934854
Transcendence is the best ending, what are you on about?

>> No.23934871

>>23934847
I like that crazy pink bastard. Shame Alien Crossfire doesn't have many quotes from the new factions...

>> No.23934873

>>23934847
>>23934854
It probably seems pretty good to the people who transcended.

>> No.23934892

>>23934861
>Transcendence is the best ending
Transcendence is basically the same ending as The Cabin in the Woods.

>> No.23934929

>>23934892
IIRC everyone merges into a greater consciousness but still has the option to return to physical/individual form.

Although Deidre is somehow the boss of that greater consciousness, so... yeah, freedom is an issue.

>> No.23934951

>>23934871
I've actually tried working on fleshing out Cult society. I've come up with a few details, like how they deliberately design all buildings that aren't temples to be brutalist and ugly, so as not to imply that anything made for humans is supposed to be any more grand than Planet (the temples themselves, however, are beautiful), and how they have very skilled biologists, but their biologists also have to be dual-enrolled in the priesthood, to have a religious dispensation to fiddle with Planet's native life.

>>23934929
Well, she did earn it. And she's one of the most democratic leaders.

>> No.23934983

>>23934951
It's hard to know what it all entails, though. I can definitely see some people having a problem with being unwillingly Transcended. Partly depends on how far you can come back from it.

>> No.23935047

>>23934983
...or it Planet so powerful that by the end it's Transcendence or death? That would make it more tempting. Mind you, given the tech level, you'd think building yet another giant ship and finding a less troublesome planet to live on would be an option too.

>> No.23935062

Doesn't Miriam get eaten by a malfunctioning dimensional gate near the endgame?

>> No.23935137

In an otherwise compelling piece of hard sci-fi, psionic powers and transcendence are mystical nonsense. It's as if they threw wizards and the Second Coming into Civ.

>> No.23935167

>>23935137
Aren't the mind worms described as telepathic from the beginning?

>> No.23935181

>>23935137
>Alpha Centauri
>hard sci-fi
4/10

>> No.23935230

>>23935167
Why does that matter?

>>23935181
Aside from psychic powers (and aliens that have them) it is. There are a few exceptions, but nearly all of the technology in it refers to known or suspected physical possibilities.

>> No.23935265

>>23935230
>nearly all of the technology in it refers to known or suspected physical possibilities
It's a grab-bag mishmash of sci-fi concepts, none of which are explained or made to look plausible because we're given only hints of background. I wouldn't call it hard at all.

>> No.23935289

>>23935230
It matters because a critical part of the setting is mystical nonsense in the first place.

>> No.23935328

>>23935289
Why is this "in the first place" so important to you?

Would it matter so much if the "mind worms" were called something else and you only learn that they have psychic attacks after researching certain parts of the tech tree?

>> No.23935349

>>23935265
It's a hell of a lot harder than most sci-fi. Of course, the gameplay has virtually no relation to the story or the descriptions of the tech.

>> No.23935361

>>23935230
Once you hit Chaos weapons the hard sci fi is out. Alpha Centauri has psychic powers from the get-go.

>> No.23935366

>>23935328
Yes, it would, because then you could argue that you were tricked into thinking it was hard sci-fi when it never was.

>> No.23935447

>>23935349
Not sure how you're defining hard sci-fi here. Wikipedia calls it
>a category of science fiction characterized by an emphasis on scientific or technical detail, or on scientific accuracy, or on both
...which IMO Alpha Centauri can't really be, because, it being a game rather than a book, there's almost no detail at all. E.g. what the hell are plasma shards, and why are they a more effective weapon than tachyon bolts? How does a chaos gun work?

>> No.23935488

>>23935366
Not that anon, but you seem to think his/her argument is chronology-based. I don't think it is. He/she is saying 'it's a shame these things are elements in the game, because they stop it from being hard sci-fi'.

>> No.23935502

>>23935447
There IS an Alpha Centauri book but it's filled with a lot of weird things, like Yang still on the Unity being held up by a young security officer, and mentally convincing her to shoot herself instead of him.

>> No.23935505

>>23935328
I mean, my point is, you could take the mind worms, the fungus, the alien technology, the evolution of Planet, and all psychic powers entirely out of the game, and pretty much everything that made the game popular would still be there. So why did they throw it in?

They set up this big conflict between human ideologies, and then went, "lol, it doesn't matter because godalien". That's a strange design decision.

I think it would have added a lot to the game if the whole Planet thing happened only in one in a thousand games, or something like that, and in nine out of ten there was no alien life at all.

>> No.23935533

>>23935447
...and in terms of accuracy, it's just bizarre. Apparently humans from a near-future earth, who successfully landed on another planet, have forgotten how to build aircraft...

>> No.23935560

>>23935505
>I mean, my point is, you could take the mind worms, the fungus, the alien technology, the evolution of Planet, and all psychic powers entirely out of the game, and pretty much everything that made the game popular would still be there
Holy crap. What? No. Everything you just said is wrong.

>> No.23935565

>>23935505
>pretty much everything that made the game popular would still be there
Personally I love the mindworms and the psychic aspects. This is really just a preference thing.

>> No.23935676

>>23935565
...although I do get your point about the ideological conflicts between factions. Would indeed be nice to have the option to turn off Planet, although personally I'd probably play with it because I love mindworms and living planets.

Actually, if prayers worked and we could get a (good) sequel, I'd like the option to have the Unity crash on different planets at the start. Desert planet for Dune-style shenanigans, ice planet, planet that already has sentient inhabitants who aren't too happy about all the humans...

>> No.23935683

>>23935447
>>a category of science fiction characterized by an emphasis on scientific or technical detail, OR ON SCIENTIFIC ACCURACY
Anyway, wikipedia isn't the final word on things.

Most popular sci-fi is extremely soft, in that the writers don't give two shits whether anything they're writing about is possible in the real world. It's just tech-themed fantasy.

SMAC is pretty hard as popular sci-fi goes. The early tech is stuff that seems likely to pop up soon in the real world (the known knowns), and the later tech is stuff that real scientists commonly express uncertainty about (the known unknowns), and that top levels are things they can't even really describe properly (the unknown unknowns).

That's a realistic future tech progression: there are things we can see coming clearly, things we're not sure of, and stuff that's going to completely surprise us.

But also: psychic alien gods. Fuck.

>> No.23935751

>>23935683
I don't think your argument holds any water. You're trying to say it's hard sci-fi, somehow, but it's not.

>> No.23935776

>>23935683
I see what you mean about the progression. They certainly do try to make it all look plausible, even without the details.

>> No.23935828

>>23935533
>successfully landed on another planet
They crash-landed, because it was sabotaged. It's a small number of people, who have lost most of what they were supposed to bring, and who have split up and are fighting each other more than they're working together.

Figuring out how to build aircraft that work on this planet with what they've got might take some doing, and is probably not a top priority.

And I've already said that the gameplay has very little connection to the descriptions of tech. The game itself is basically Civ with a sci-fi theme painted over it, and makes no sense if you try to analyze it as a series of actual events.

Consider the timescale it's supposed to be happening on, against things like population growth. It's completely schizophrenic.

>> No.23935842

>>23935776
...and in the interests of avoiding semantics over 'hard sci'fi', I'd say you're more interested in seeing the projection of future technologies and (more interestingly, for me anyway) ideologies, and think that Planet gets in the way of that. I can definitely see where you're coming from, though personally I like it.

>> No.23935846

>>23935776
You get Chaos Guns before you get Missile Launchers.

>> No.23935851

>>23935751
He said its hard as far as popular sci-fi goes, he never said it was totally hard sci-fi.

>> No.23935879

>>23935751
I don't think you're very familiar with the term "hard sci-fi". It's a relative thing. They went to a lot of effort to include realistic future technologies, with commentary on how it's likely to affect society. That makes it harder than most sci-fi.

>> No.23935890

>>23935533
>have forgotten how to build aircraft...
Wrong. Santiago explains this in further detail, but first off, you landed on a new planet. You know next to nothing about its atmosphere density, its composition, its wind currents, how it changes around the globe. That's the "common sense" part.

The in-game part that Santiago explains is that the materials for planes and satellites are rare on Planet. They're not easy to find. That's partly why synthetic fossil fuels were necessary to develop before needlejets and satellites and rocketry came back into the picture.

>> No.23936073

>>23935890
Oh, I don't recall that explanation of the materials part. As for the 'common sense' part- eh, assuming the laws of physics apply, I can't see getting a working plane going taking many years for a reasonably advanced society. The principles should be the same.

>> No.23936175

>>23936073
>reasonably advanced
The colonies of mankind after the Unity split are far away from that. It takes them several decades to have more than a few tens of thousands of people.

The quote from Santiago is from a cutscene, I believe. I want to say it's one with a submarine running in the water, but I'm not certain it was that particular video.

>> No.23936185

I wonder what civilization would be like if there wasn't a coup and Captain Garland became ruler of the Planet colonies. How would he run things?

>> No.23936215

Did someone say "Peace Meeting?"

>> No.23936231

>>23936185
He'd probably end up shooting himself in the face because every one of his senior officers are scheming ideologically blinkered megalomaniacs.

Seriously, who was in charge of recruiting personnel for the Unity mission?

>> No.23936268

>>23936185
Probably something like Lal, but less idealistic.
The various leaders would attempt to influence him, and he'd probably have to shiv Santiago at some point.

>> No.23936304

>>23936185
Captain Garland was obviously well respected by just about everyone, and was capable. All kinds of landmarks are named after him, for instance.

He was seemingly a very capable guy, a bit like Lal (whom he considered a close friend) but actually trained for the job. Lal is a doctor, not really a leader. And despite that everyone on the ship is an infighting egomaniacle fuckup, they're also all inhumanly talented.

Garland being put in charge probably meant he was one of the most capable people on Earth. Things probably would have gone veeeeeery differently.

>> No.23936310

>>23936231
>who was in charge of recruiting personnel for the Unity mission
The U.N.
>>23933158
>The U.N. authorities planning the Unity mission...

>> No.23936320

>>23936304
Hey, Lal and Deirdre are all right, really.

>> No.23936374

First boss fight of the game:
>I, Captain Garland, will knock you all down!
...and he does!

After his defeat, he travels back in time to develop his power. He comes back as the final boss, Planet.

>> No.23936380

>>23936320
Skye was absolutely fine until the mind worm thing.

>> No.23936385

>>23936320
Lal is a wet blanket. He's weak and weird and tried to clone his wife so he could marry the child.

And Dierdre everyone goes over. He gave whole cities of men, women, and children to the mind worms so she could get high on her religious love for a ball of rock and fungus.

>> No.23936422

>>23936385
*He
I meant she. She. No matter where she keeps the mind worms, she doesn't count as a dude.

>> No.23936438

>>23936385
>Lal is a wet blanket.
Who is capable of raising armies and explicitly is willing to fight for his ideals.

As for the cloning, that's literally the least bad thing any of the leaders have done.

>> No.23936453

>>23936380
>>23936385
The use of mind worms is extremely practical. If they're used in combat alone, it seems fine by me, and as their strength is wholly psychic, it greatly cuts down on your need to spend money on military technology, so you can focus on more peaceful applications, thus leading to a more advanced and pleasant society overall. And since Deirdre herself is fairly peaceful, fewer would have to fear her mastery of mind worms than would have to from others.

>> No.23936463

>>23936453
>Since Deidre herself is fairly peaceful
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.

>> No.23936473

>>23936320
Lal puts up a good facade, but he meddles without really knowing what he's doing. His faction is corrupt and incomptent.

Also: he makes the game go crazy bonkers when he gets elected by some narrow margin supported by one or two other high-population factions, and you not accepting this somehow leads to you being at war with every faction simultaneously, including the ones that voted for you over him.

Deirdre's faction WEAPONIZES the mind worms.

There are no good guys. Every faction is both wonderful and horrible.

>> No.23936486

>>23936463
She's repeatedly mentioned as peaceful in all descriptions of her, and her aggression rating is "passive." You probably fucked up Planet in some unnecessary manner (do note that this led, on Earth, to what was almost the complete extinction of humanity, to say nothing of the other life on the world).

>>23936473
There's nothing inherently wrong with using mind worms.

>> No.23936521

>>23936473
>His faction is corrupt and incompetent.
This shit again?
There's literally no basis for corruption, and his faction is the overall most powerful.

>> No.23936522

>>23936453
Richard Baxton piloted his Recon Rover into a fungal vortex and held off four waves of mind worms, saving an entire colony. We immediately purchased his identity manifests and repackaged him into the Recon Rover Rick character with a multi-tiered media campaign: televids, touchbooks, holos, psi-tours-- the works. People need heroes. They don't need to know how HE DIED CLAWING HIS EYES OUT, SCREAMING FOR MERCY. The real story would just hurt sales, and dampen the spirits of our customers.

Morgan Stellartots Keynote Speech, "Mythology for Profit"

Emphasis mine.

Dierdre willingly condemned thousands, if not millions of children to a horrifying death where they saw all their worst nightmares come to life. They screamed, ripped out their own eyes, and had mind worms bore inside and lay their eggs in their skulls.

Using mind worms in war is EVIL. Fuck those things. And Dierdre is fucking evil too.

>> No.23936534

>>23936521
In fact the peacekeeper description explicitly note that they attract more talented people, which is backed up by their extra fucking talents.

>> No.23936535

>>23936374
>[spoilers] Spartans [/spoiler] assassinated Garland
>but really he just went into hiding
>Garland returns after training as Planet
>Planetmind convinces Deidre that Planet must be preserved
>the seed is sown
>Deirdre decides the Spartans pose the greatest threat to Planet and humankind
>Spartan-Gaian War ensues
>Spartans are wiped out, Santiago is captured, Green policies flourish
>Garland has had his revenge
>>23936385
>He's weak and weird and tried to clone his wife so he could marry the child.
I thought he wanted to clone his wife and remarry her. I remember nothing about a child.

>> No.23936547

>>23936486
>There's nothing inherently wrong with using mind worms.

>There's nothing inherently wrong with using biological warfare.

>There's nothing inherently wrong with spraying acid in your enemies' faces.

>There's nothing inherently wrong with torture.

>There's nothing inherently wrong with babycannons.

I guess as long as it's for a good cause, it's okay...

>> No.23936560

To be honest I'm kind of surprised there wasn't an option to Amend the UN Treaty to Ban the Use of Domesticated Planet Life in War.

I actually never thought of that before.

>> No.23936577

>>23936522
Oh, sure, because everyone who dies to bullets and lasers and chaos guns dies so extremely cleanly. Also, the mind worm attacks only took out enemy combatants, not whole cities, so far as I'm aware (unless the battle was just so extended that an entire city went down, which does unfortunately happen sometimes... but really, the odds seem very high of Santiago being the aggressor anyway).

>>23936547
Biological warfare is problematic because of its tendency to spread and harm civilians, but mind worms who are being controlled by handlers don't have that risk.

>> No.23936601

>>23936577
What happens if you move mind worms into an enemy city?

>> No.23936612

>>23936486
She canonically wipes out the Spartans by secretly sicking mindworms on them. Not sure who else she's at war with, though.

>> No.23936632

>>23936535
When you clone someone, you get a baby who is essentially their identical twin.

This is comparable getting your dead wife's sister to have a baby, so you can marry it. Creep factor ultimate.

>> No.23936633

>>23936601
Nothing worse than what happens when you move any kind of troops into an enemy city, I daresay.

>>23936612
Given the Spartans' extreme aggression, that hardly seems like a bad thing for the rest of the world.

>> No.23936645

>>23936560
I think it was supposed to be secret.

>> No.23936653

>>23936632
You think of it as a child, I think of it as just recreating the person it originally was. The DNA is the same, after all.

>> No.23936661

>>23936633
>Nothing worse than what happens when you move any kind of troops into an enemy city, I daresay.
Bull-shit.

You move troops in and the city gets taken over.
You move mind worms in and people are mass slaughtered.

>> No.23936669

>>23936653
So identical twins are the same person? If you marry one, it's okay to fuck the other?

>> No.23936674

>>23936633
>Nothing worse than what happens when you move any kind of troops into an enemy city, I daresay.
Um, can I choose human soldiers who may possibly be 'orrible bastards over the worms that will plug my worst nightmares directly into my brain so they can lay eggs in it, please?

>> No.23936693

>>23936661
Er, whenever I move mind worms into a city, it gets, well, taken over. I don't know where you're getting this from.

>>23936674
Does it really matter? You die very swiftly in any case.

>> No.23936694

>>23936577
There's a difference between having a bullet rip through you and bleeding out and seeing your worst nightmares come to life, RIPPING YOUR OWN EYES OUT, and having monsters lay fucking eggs IN YOUR BRAIN.

You'll notice that in the real world we ban a hell of a lot of weapons, like mustard gas, that are MUCH less worse than fucking mind worms.

>>23936612
Potentially the Believers, but that's not clear. They go out not long after the Spartans, but it might have been Zakharov that wiped her out too.

It's definite she fights Yang though. He's all anti-psychic the whole time, with his various anti-psychic protections. He's undoubtedly the one man who could stomp the shit out of her. He probably dies to the free drones led by Foreman Domai though.

The end game comes down to her and Zakharov, and she just manages to beat him because he gets the worst of the mind worm aggression while she just captures them all.

>> No.23936696

>>23936669
As you will note Lal didn't assume that.
He was, after all, rejected and took it rather well.

>> No.23936712

>>23936633
The way mindworms kill is basically worse than raping to death.

On top of that, you don't really know what you're dealing with. They can clearly communicate. Are you teaching the whole population to attack humans?

>> No.23936719

>>23936694
Again, precision is the primary issue here, which can still be achieved with mind worms.

>> No.23936721

>>23936674
I'd rather have my city taken over by Russians than by Mind Worms.

BY RUSSIANS.

>> No.23936736

>>23936693
>whenever I move mind worms into a city, it gets, well, taken over
Fair point. In-game they do operate like other troops. Realistically, though, they'd be banned for being 'orrible.

>> No.23936737

>>23936712
THAT WAS WHAT THE WHOLE POPULATION WAS ALREADY DOING

>> No.23936741

>>23936669
You're trying to muddle the reason for the cloning. Lal's wife died pretty early. He didn't get to grow old with her and he wanted her back. The only way that could happen is by cloning her. It took many trials but eventually he succeeded. And then what? She rejects him.

And that champ DEALT WITH IT. I cannot imagine the pain that must have caused him but he dealt with it and let her go study in one of his bases to be a Talent or something.

>> No.23936743

>>23936721
Nightmare mode:

Russian Mind Worms.

>> No.23936755

>>23936694
Zakharov supplies the quote for the Voice of Planet, while most other Ascendance related stuff refers to Deidre.

>> No.23936760

>>23936736
They're under control of empaths, but the way they kill doesn't change regardless of whether the planet is in charge or someone else is.

I would just like to remind you what people who kept them thought about them if they weren't religious fanatics like Dierdre.

Of all the employments, working in the the brood pit was at once the most horrific and the most desirable. Horrific for what we saw occur day after day, and because of the very nature of the sessile native lifeforms. Desirable, because having being chosen to work in the pit, you were highly unlikely to be one of its victims.

Captain Ulrik Svensgaard "The Shadow Resonance"

>> No.23936767

>>23936743
But that's just tentacle rape.

>> No.23936770

>>23935505
>I mean, my point is, you could take the mind worms, the fungus, the alien technology, the evolution of Planet, and all psychic powers entirely out of the game, and pretty much everything that made the game popular would still be there.

What? No. You're stupid. Stop being stupid, and while you're at it stop projecting your interests onto everyone else you stupid fucking self absorbed faggot.

>> No.23936772

>>23936743
It sure is a good thing Zakharov hates mind worms.

So, here's what Mind Worms can do, everybody. Read this.
I bet you didn't know Mind Worms could disable electronics.

>> No.23936782

>>23936770
I think he's fairly right bro.
The game would still be cool even without worms.

>> No.23936785

>>23936755
That's right. As I see it he came up with the tech but she beat him to implementing it because he's under attack by mindworms from all corners. She, being well adapted to fungus and able to capture mindworms easily, manages to roll with it easily.

>> No.23936794

>>23936782
I think he's fairly wrong bro.
The game would be a lot worse without the planet the way it is.

>> No.23936797

>>23936755
Which seems to imply that Deirdre and Zakharov started working together at the end.

>> No.23936822

>>23936794
>>23936782
You have different opinions. This is absolutely fine.

>> No.23936866

>>23936797
Not really. I think she was secretly waging war on him just like everyone else. Once you make the tech anyone can use it. He researched it, she nabbed the secrets of how and then ramped it all right the fuck up, sabotaging his research efforts and capacity right as the planet went nuts.

There's no indication AT ALL that there's any love between the Gaians and the University. And frankly Zakharov doesn't like her because he thinks she's a superstitious nutjob. She doesn't like Zakharov because has less than zero fucks to give about the environment. And he REALLY hates mind worms.

Of all the factions in Alpha Centauri, Dierdre is the worst to have as a friend, because she's the most likely to secretly kill you with goddamned mindworms while publicly trying to "support" you.

>> No.23936895

>>23936866
I've never experienced that, though this may be because I always play as Deirdre. And Zakharov doesn't seem to hate mind worms, he just gets pissed after the Lab 13 incident.

By the way, I'd always imagined that Deirdre, Zakharov and Lal would have a three-way pact going because they'd all share Democracy, Green and Knowledge social choices.

>> No.23936918

>>23936866
Someone on /vr/ was saying the secret war thing actually worked- as in you could take mindworms up to the edge of enemy territory and then turn them native.

Mind you, /vr/ also said the underwater helicopter carrier thing worked, and apparently that ain't true.

>> No.23937039

>>23936895
The way I see it is this: They sort of work together. In the same way that Yang and Santiago work together. Morgan flips sides, and Miriam is always on her own side.

Santiago kills Lal, Deirdre takes out Santiago. The University takes out Miriam. Someone takes out Morgan, perhaps Dierdre, perhaps Yang. Yang goes down, probably to the free drones. Perhaps the Data Angels just crash their computers and wipe them out when Morgan goes in to reconquer them.

The aliens fight against the Planet Cult and Cybernetic consciousness, and eventually are defeated by them due to the alien traitor teaching them how to win. Most of the new factions are likely consumed in the end.

Really, the factions probably shift a lot. But it's hard to say.

>> No.23937043

>>23936918

The secret war does work, although the mind worms aren't guaranteed to do jackshit to the enemy territory, they might just wander around randomly.

also there needs to be unclaimed (no-faction) land near the enemy. otherwise you'll just gift them to whoever owns that land.

Also, holy shit, I was aware of this tactic, but never realised what "Our Secret War" meant until now!

Holy shit.

>> No.23937044

>>23936918
..actually I just loaded a game and checked, and it seems you CAN combine deep pressure hull with carrier deck. HAHA! Time for multiple invisible helicopter strikes!

>> No.23937079

>>23937043
>but never realised what "Our Secret War" meant until now!
>Holy shit.
I...
I need to go sit down.

>> No.23937211

>>23933046

>>chilling as gaians
>>farming, planting, terraforming
>>making the most beautiful, clean and productive continent on Planet
>>nice to everybody
>>'it has become customary for a minor faction leader-'
>>OUR LOCUSTS SHALL BLOT OUT THE SUN
>>enemy town in a very un-feng-shui spot
>>wear it down, little-by-little, until the last tide of mindworms swarming over the city wipes it from the map
>>destroy mines, roads and solars
>>just clean, pristine wilderness now.
>>Planet is wonderful

>> No.23937397

Just as a note for those defending Miriam, in the books she nukes the planet until Planet sends enough mindworms to kill all human life on it, then smugly tells the other leaders if the world wasn't the way she wanted it, it should be destroyed.

>> No.23937404

>>23937397
Yeah but the books are retarded, like C.S. Goto retarded. They don't count.

>> No.23937417

>>23937397
>>23937404
I agree. The books are terrible.

The PREQUEL is pretty good. But fuck the books. Also they aren't cannon because they ignore the expansion.

>> No.23937424

>>23937417
>cannon

>> No.23937457

>>23937424
Alright, canon, you grammar nazi.

>> No.23937508

Welcome to Autosage.

>> No.23937554

>>23937417
>>23937404
Oh I agree. Absolutely terrible. But i thought it bore mentioning.

Question though, where does it say a Gaian victory is canon?

>> No.23937581

>>23937554
The end quotes all involve Deirdre leading transcendence.

>> No.23937656

Democratic
Free Market
Knowledge
Cybernetic
=
Utopia

My conclusions are irrefutable

>> No.23937678

>>23937656
You're a virgin, your point is invalid. Go shlick yourself to Zakharov some more.

>> No.23937737

>>23937678
She finds schlicking awkward and illogical when she can just make a robo-Zakharov with unlimited stamina.

N-not that she cares.

>> No.23937738

>>23937656
>utopia
>not eudaimonic

>> No.23937747

>>23937457
>grammar

>> No.23937845

>>23937678
Don't be mean to my Alpha Centauri waifu.

>> No.23937891

>>23937678
You know, it strikes me as strange that she'd fetishize Zakharov. If you want her to feel that illogical emotion we humans call lust, maybe she should go full manly. Like Sven. Or Santiago.

>> No.23937931

>>23937891
I'd prefer she go for Deirdre, personally.

>> No.23937982

>>23937738
being a robot is objectively better than posessing moral virtue

>> No.23937987

I love the hell out of this game, but it bugs me that there's a "canon" ending. Part of the fun of 4X games is that each one is different, and the same is true for this one, but it kind of feels "Well, good job, but it doesn't matter, because the way you beat the game wasn't the "right" way to beat the game."

I mean, hell, in the end it doesn't matter what "really" happened, I still blew everybody off of the planet leaving only myself to rule, and the game is still fun as all get-out. Just a little thing that bugs me, is all.

>> No.23937999

>>23937987
It's implied, not explicit. You aren't likely to even realize the "canon" ending until after playing it a few dozen times.

>> No.23938058

>>23937987
It's better to think of it not as a canon ending, but a canon possibility. The less fancy endings are still valid possibilities; at some point the winning faction presumably sets its sights on stomping Planet into submission before doing whatever else it had in mind.

>> No.23938736

>>23937656
The only logical choices are:

Democratic
Planned economy
Knowledge
Eudaimonia

Prove me wrong.

>> No.23939394

>>23938736
Democratic Thought Control.

Subliminal messages everywhere telling you to vote. Not who to vote for, but just to vote, to express your views, take part in the social experiment.

>> No.23939405

>>23936693

You'll notice that conquering cities in Alpha Centauri decreases their size - an abstraction of the population loss that occurs in a hostile takeover, whether from bullets, lasers, or, in your case, millions of mind worms tearing through a hapless civilian population.

>> No.23939429

>>23936794

I agree with this. Ecological stewardship comes across much stronger in Alpha Centauri than the Civ games.

That's mainly because if you don't do a good job at ecological stewardship massive boils of worms will come out and tentacle rape your cities. It's a fairly sledgehammer metaphor but it helps communicate different themes about the game; it's not just "Civ in space".

Alas, Earth lacks the same sort of defences, which explains why environmentalism is so hotly contested.

>> No.23939650

>>23937044
Holy crap, this is not how I remember it. I wonder if they changed how these things work at some point.

>> No.23941075

>>23937891
>Manly
>Santiago

I fucking lost it, good show anon.

>> No.23941153

I kinda want to redo Santiago as a hard-exterior soft-center type personality tsundere, like... I don't know, Yandere Kanojo or something.

"I-I don't even need this weapons research anymore, so I'm giving it to you since it's old and useless! It's not like I want to Pact of Brotherhood with you, or anything!"

>> No.23941584

>>23939650
Actually I could be wrong... it seemed doable on the unit designer, but I didn't do it in practice.

Also apparently the computer ignores the whole 'undersea' thing anyway.

>>
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