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23866192 No.23866192 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Why do combat systems still cling to the ancient and simplistic and fairly nonsensical concept of HP?

What games have deviated from this standard mechanic?

>> No.23866232

pre-emptive sage

>> No.23866262

>>23866232

You do realize that does nothing?

>> No.23866274

>>23866192
I wouldn't describe it as "simplistic and fairly nonsensical," I'd call it "abstracted." But that's just me.
I know there are some games that make you roll some sort of toughness save whenever you are damaged. Like Mutants and Masterminds I believe. Also I think in FATE damage causes lingering complications and such, including but not necessarily requiring the eventual use of death?

>> No.23866296

Savage Worlds sort of has wound thresholds you have to exceed that eventually knock you out. You gotta exceed exceed their toughness (or whatever it was called) in damage or strike an already shaken character.

Ironclaw sort of has the same principle of wound thresholds, with opposing rolls to dodge/block/absorb damage.

>> No.23866319

>>23866274
>I wouldn't describe it as "simplistic and fairly nonsensical

Well, a system that allows you to fight normally for x-amount of blows until you get clipped on the toe at low health and you die is a little too simple/abstract for me.

>> No.23866333

>>23866192
Why don't you just google it?

>> No.23866354

I only play mature intelligent RPGs where wounds are modelled with medical accuracy and individual bone and organ damage is tracked

Combat might take five hours to resolve but it lets me feel smug about my preferred pretend-to-be-a-wizard game so I think it's a fair tradeoff.

>> No.23866369

That sounds very interesting, but I can't think of anything...

>> No.23866380

>>23866354
I doubt Godlike takes that much to resolve. Bullets are pretty murderous there.

>> No.23866410

>>23866354
All non-HP systems I've played have had combats go quicker in my experience.

No need to be so defensive about it

>> No.23866416

>>23866319
Most aren't quite so binary. Even D&D 4E added in the wounded state.

That said it would be interesting if you fully integrated health and strength. All your attributes are just the main health stat multiplied by some modifier plus some modifiers. And when the main health stat goes down so too do your abilities.

>> No.23866432

>>23866319
The point is that quite a lot of those blows are not actual flesh-carving/puncturing blows. Rather, most of it is avoided by consumption of energy (turning potential hits into near-misses is hard), willpower (ignoring pain from minor wounds is hard), some luck, a little bit of divine favor, and possibly nebulous magical defenses if appropriate but I'm not sure about that one.
But I'm a 4rry through and through so what do I know.

>> No.23866440

>>23866192
Burning wheel uses an interesting health system

>> No.23866444

>>23866354
Wouldn't the best approach for such a system be to offload the combat simulation into a vidya?

>> No.23866506

>>23866444
No, because PC skill and player skill are different things, and games that don't incorporate player skill have terrible combat systems. Look at Morrowind.

>> No.23866520

>>23866410
>All non-HP systems I've played have had combats go quicker
>More rolls
>Quicker

>> No.23866600

>>23866192
>picture of a woman, or something that could be thought of as female in this case
>"Hitpoints!"
Even if I don't know your name, I know you.
Now... stop that.


Ha, sure told him!

>> No.23866631

>>23866520
>more rolls for a non-HP system
What kind of whacked design philosophy do you have? Some of these systems use one roll for attack and damage or have 2 rolls like D&D.

>> No.23866718

The closest I've been to that is to create a HP system for every important part of the body. While it still uses the HP system, it doesn't engulfs everything into a "simplistic, nonsensical" single pool of life.

>> No.23866933

>>23866506

Depends on the degree of player skill involved you want.

More pure-blooded RPG's would in theory forego player skill.

>> No.23866992

>>23866440

Where can I read up on it? I see the wiki, but no combat guide.

Probably blindness on my part.

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