Quantcast
[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / g / ic / jp / lit / sci / tg / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports / report a bug ] [ 4plebs / archived.moe / rbt ]

Due to resource constraints, /g/ and /tg/ will no longer be archived or available. Other archivers continue to archive these boards.Become a Patron!

/tg/ - Traditional Games


View post   

[ Toggle deleted replies ]
[ERROR] No.23705807 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

/tg/,

Last night or so there was a thread talking about space travel and what ways were possible or not. And what should and shouldn't be used in science fiction.

I'm writing a personal project of mine and I want your advice. I ruled out FTL as a method of travel since new theories basically say it's impossible.

I thought of the possibility of wormholes, but my method of doing them seems off but. From what I know, it is possible to make a wormhole but keeping it open would be extremely difficult. One of the ways is the typical way of have type of gates that are connect to each other. That would be for commercial travel and the likes.

This other way that I thought up which seems to me far fetched but it is an idea, which I have never seen done before (though it probably has) is the possibility of projectile with a charge that has enough energy to create a wormhole. So the idea is, the ships locks onto the coordinates of its destination, the ship fires this projectile, it explodes and creates the wormhole. The ship goes through the wormhole in a race against time before it closes and it reaches its destination.

Chances are I'm full of shit but I want help from you smar/tg/uys. I thought it sounded like a risky thing to do and that is kind of what I'm going for. Kind of like the risk ships make in 40k with warp travel.

>> No.23705906

>> No.23706007

so when u say race against time, do u mean like in halo 3 when the chief was still inside the portal when it collapsed and was dumped in some random place? or just not make it into the wormhole at all?

>> No.23706021

Tough crowd.

>> No.23706063

>>23706007

Both in a way. I don't think it would dump you in some random part of space. It would probably kill you in some weird science fiction way that we can't comprehend.

>> No.23706068

>>23706021
Not really sure what you're going for here, to be honest.

>> No.23706137

>>23706068

I want to ask you all if my way of space travel is ok or not, and if not maybe some suggestions on different ways.

>> No.23706278

I probably made a stupid thread, so I won't bump again after this.

Apologies.

>> No.23706368

>>23705807

What has time to get through gets througt, the rest stays, so be damn sure to seal every compartment before a jump.

>> No.23706417

>>23706368

I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say.

>> No.23706425

>>23706278
>>23706137
>>23706021

It's only been like, 25 minutes, there should be no problems still getting people in this thread, /tg/ aint fast.

>> No.23706446

>>23705807
Hawking radiation. Lots and lots of Hawking radiation.

>> No.23706460

>>23706368
>>23706417

Oh wait, no, I read that wrong. So I understand, I don't sealing every compartment will be a problem. Since space ships are enclosed spaces anyway.

>> No.23706461

>>23706417

Race against time to get through, if you don't get all the way through, tough luck, you now have half a ship.

Something like that you thought about?

>> No.23706543

>>23706446

Aren't blackholes and wormholes two different things?

>>23706461

Kind of, I always thought of wormholes being more like pathways or tunnels, rather than just straight up doors.

So the risk would be being lost in wormhole forever.

>> No.23706619

>>23705807
>>23706137
Wormholes can create FTL without violating relativity; but generally they need to be arranged in certain orders to prevent radiation collapse from causal violations. But the specific order is generally loose enough that you can handwave the details.

Anyway, shooting wormhole mouths around has been done before, except than instead of megacannon, they're carried by ships. The catch is that by ship or cannon, they carrier still goes STL.

If you're looking for a hard-science sounding self-contained FTL drive, consider equipotential swaps or bias drives. An equipotential drive swaps two chunks of space with similar gravity, so ideally the local spacetime has to be flat, making arriving in space instead of on-planet necessary.

>> No.23706684

>>23705807
>I ruled out FTL as a method of travel since new theories basically say it's impossible.
Two things:
First wormholes are just one more handwaved reason for ignoring the problems of FTL travel. That does not mean that your idea isn't interesting, but you should be aware that it is in no way logically superior to any other way of handwaving the existence of functional FTL travel.
And second, the Einstein's special theory of relativity can hardly be described as 'new'.

>> No.23706727

Your premise is a reminder of a an often forgotten aspect of Science Fiction. By creating a wormhole gun, you've inadvertantly reminded us that ANY propulsion system cabable of superluminal, or even just reletavistic speeds, is tantamount to an incomprehensible superweapon.


I can't understand any setting where ships zip thousands of lightyears through space only to fight pitched battles with zap-guns at 20 miles from one another. Every one of those ships has a propulsion system that should be able to end the battle in one shot, at a considerably further range.

>> No.23706858

>>23706727
indeed.

found a youtube of some guy discussing the engineering required for the Avatar journey, assuming the ship weighed only the same as an aircraft carrier, and discounting the weight of fuel (because antimatter).

result was 1600 hiroshimas per second in waste-energy (vibration and heat presumably) at 99,99% efficiecy, with a total energy requirement of about 80% of earths total solar energy from the sun, for years at a time. 150 petawatts or so.

engineering on that scale could destroy planets with some effort.

>> No.23706877

>>23706543
Black holes probably all have wormholes in them, but the opposite is not always true, you just need a big ammount of gravity. A blue giant probably would do the job. If you had a "jump central station" it would probably orbit one one of these.

In any case, "real" wormholes would be a door, like, step through and you are there. Holywoodian wormholes talk about "hiperspace", whatever that is, since it changes every movie, but you COULD use it. Hiperspace would be a "passage" dimension, and a very scary place if you stay there too long.
Check TVTropes for "Hiperspace is a scary place" and "Void between universes/worlds". Some good ideas can come of it.

>> No.23706884

>>23706858
another funny one, by thunderf00t, semi-related.

apparently neutronium is the strongest explosive we know of, due to gravity and neutron decay.

>> No.23706895

Well OP, if you are looking for something realistic, you aren't gonna find it, with the current human understanding of phyics at least.

With the warphole theory are multiple problems.
First: it requires absurd, and I really mean absurd, amounts of energy to open one. Like the total energy output during the life time of large stars. And it's not even clear if that kind of energy can create a portal that's large enough for a space ship to fit. Second: stability. That requires even more energy to open it, it's basicly unsustainable. Third is maybe a lesser practial problem, but there is thought be insane amounts of radiation coming from worm holes.

So realisticly speaking, there just isn't a even remotely possible methode of ftl or wormhole traval.

The only 'viable' ( in theory again ) methods for travaling faster than we do now with liquid fuel rockets is dropping nukes behind a space, blowing them up and absorbing the energy with a giant dempener and the second is anti-matter.

>tl;dr there's no realistic way of fast travel in space

>> No.23706946

>>23705807
If I am reading this correctly, you are sending a projectile through normal space to open a bridge at the other end? That's pointless.

Or do you mean that there is a gate opening device just ahead of the ship inside the wormhole itself with no set "gate" at either end?

>> No.23706985

>>23706619

>Anyway, shooting wormhole mouths around has been done before, except than instead of megacannon, they're carried by ships. The catch is that by ship or cannon, they carrier still goes STL.

So the ship itself creates the wormhole? I have seen that before, but wouldn't the ship be torn apart by the formation of the wormhole?

>>23706684

My mistake.

>>23706727

Hahaha oh wow. I didn't even think of it that way.

>> No.23706995

>>23706895
There are a number of IRL aspirants to the fictional fusion torch title. If you want fictional rockets, catching (or making) some monopoles for fusion energy conversion works. So does antimatter-catalyzed fusion.

It's a matter of context. Space is a big place and what's blistering fast for scientists seems slow to people who only know it through plot-magic storybooks.

>> No.23707109

>>23706543
>Aren't blackholes and wormholes two different things?

Yes. Completely different things.

>>23705807
A few methods of interstellar travel that are (somewhat) based in reality.

Unrestrained acceleration and time dilation:
Without friction or an outside force to bleed off inertia, a spacecraft can maintain a constant speed with zero energy input. Any additional input would only produce greater acceleration.

If the acceleration was spread out over several months, to prevent the crew being reduced to a red paste, then it is hypothetically possible to reach a reasonable percentage of LS.

This would still take hundreds/thousands of years to cross any meaningful galactic distances but only to outside observers.
To the crew on board the ship, much less time would pass due to the effects of time dilation. Depending on what percentage of LS they reach and the length of their journey, they might only experience decades or even just a few years.

Subspace:
Subspace exists. Science has confirmed it.
That's..... About as much as I know about the subject. It is completely plausible that relative distance between separate planes of reality won't match up.

A thousand miles travelled in subspace might be a hundred billion in realspace. Or visa versa. It's your setting, just make it up.

>> No.23707147

>>23706985
The wormhole mouths are manufactured by converting microscopic black holes to wormholes pulled out of the quantum foam, probably in an orbital industrial zone. Then one ship takes one end (you hold it with magnets, which hold the exotic matter, which hold the wormhole) and flies away to a destination. When it gets there, it feeds a metric kiloshitton of energy to the wormholes and makes it grow big enough to fly through (if you're in a setting where people drive bodies through wormholes hundreds of meters across, instead of transmitting as data through the original sub-nano-scale size wormholes).

>> No.23707279

>>23706895

I guess, not really realistic. But I don't want people reading my stuff saying "bullshit" or something. However what you say is very sad to read.

>>23706877

I wanted to avoid the hyperspace thing. But I will look into it.

>>23707109

>This would still take hundreds/thousands of years to cross any meaningful galactic distances but only to outside observers.
To the crew on board the ship, much less time would pass due to the effects of time dilation. Depending on what percentage of LS they reach and the length of their journey, they might only experience decades or even just a few years.

This is exactly what I wanted to avoid honestly. It sounds awful and would make space travel outside of just curiosity pointless.

>> No.23707286

>>23707109
>Subspace exists. Science has confirmed it.
I'm going to need a cite for this, because it comes off as a fundamental misinterpretation of string theory.

>> No.23707378

>>23706995
For a realistic fusion rocket, the maximum exhaust velocity is around 7% of lightspeed, which means a ship with the same mass fraction as the space shuttle could hit about 11% of lightspeed, which is fast enough for an interstellar ramjet.
An electromagnetic scoop is essentially a giant magnetic mirror, so that loses a lot of energy from synchrotron radiation, but an electrostatic scoop doesn't have that problem, so for any journey longer than a few lightyears the ship is practically travelling at lightspeed.

>> No.23707390

Apologies if my posts are getting shorter and slower. This is just a lot of information I'm taking in right now.

>> No.23707505

>>23707279
>This is exactly what I wanted to avoid honestly. It sounds awful and would make space travel outside of just curiosity pointless.

If they achieve that speed along a Krasnikov tube, their time dialation is kind-of experienced by outside observers. If it takes them 1000 years to get to their destination but they only experience 10, they get to their destination 1000 years after they left but they can fly back at the same speed and get back to their starting point only 20 years after they left.

>> No.23707663

>>23707505

So require to do this you still have to make a wormhole. And by the doing this I have the same energy as a blue giant, correct?

>> No.23707853

>>23707663
Technically it's a variation of the Alcubierre drive to get around the fact that it's not possible to stop once the drive exceeds c, but it does involve a lot of energy. On the other hand it's a permanent fixture once it's consctructed, so the cost does amortize over a few thousand years.

>> No.23709037

Ok so, I've gonna drop the wormhole idea and just go with a type of warp drive. Before this thread completely dies after this last bump. I'm going to ask two things.

How do you protect ships from outside radiation? How would you do interstellar communication?

To protect the ship would radiation would making a magnetic field be possible?

>> No.23709043

The warp engine. Basically compresses spacetime in front of the ship and stretches spacetime behind it. Possible, but very risky, works like if you got a big line of teleporters and sprinted through them. Other people would see you jump from one to another, but to you you would just be running straight. watch the Vsauce video "Will we ever travel to other stars?"t

>> No.23709088

>>23709037
>radiation shielding
Lots of dense mass, like a shell of ice or basalt; ideally doped with some neutron sinks like boron. A magnetic field is very helpful, yes.
>comms
Use FTL ships carrying messages. If FTL is restricted to craft travelling in space, your PCs won't be as tempted to create CTC computers.

>>
Name (leave empty)
Comment (leave empty)
Name
E-mail
Subject
Comment
Password [?]Password used for file deletion.
Captcha
Action