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[ERROR] No.23570243 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

You are suddenly in charge of Games Workshop and must address the elephant in the room that Warhammer fantasy is failing miserably sales-wise.
How would you attempt to make Warhammer Fantasy as unique and interesting as 40K to boost sales?

>> No.23570276

>>23570243
Cut prices by 10 dollars, put the codexes back into paperback, then hire our Black Library guys to do fluff while Ward and Kelly spitball ideas into the fantasy guys. Start up 9th edition, fixing problems in the previous one while NOT FUCKING CHANGING everything that works.

>> No.23570307

>>23570243
minis are a dying, niche hobby
I'd focus more on capitalizing on our IP through other media and use the profit from those ventures to subsidize the mini games part of the company for as long as possible

>> No.23570327

>>23570243
It's selling beter then 40K here.

>> No.23570347

>>23570276
I'd suggest going with just Kelly there- I don't think Matt can work with any setting that lacks Ultramarines anymore.

>> No.23570493

Kelly writes all fantasy books. Ward writes all 40k books. Vetock switch hits. I fire everyone else and give their salaries to the editors in quality control department.

>> No.23570638

I would cut prices by like 20% across the board try to get basic core boxes down to $20~25 and cut the prices of e-army books in half instead of having them be roughly the same price as hard copies. Also I would whore out the brand like woah, maybe look into a 99 cent phone game where you like fight beast men as a witch hunter through simple side scrolling maps. I would look into making an animatrix style movie where a bunch of different animators would produce shorts about a warrior priest of Sigmar and a witch hunter working directly under him. I would also try to rent the brand to like dark horse for a gritty hyper violent short comic series and try to get a manga made maybe like one volume done by the guy that does berserk. for shonen jump.

>> No.23572859

Release parts useable in 40k and fantasty. Just general conversion parts. Cover some of the parts that 3rd party companies make and stock 3rd party items in GW stores. BUT THATS CRAZY? Not really, you buy and then retail 3rd party models in appropriate 40k scale. They miss out on profit by allowing their competition to dominate the accessory, parts and cheap sub market, while the 3rd party sites have to tread around GW license minefield.

Drop the cost of equipment down to competitive prices.

Massively drop bundle costs and introductory models in general, and streamline pricing on the online stores.

>> No.23573150

Get rid of the HORDES thing. It's neat but that should be part of Apocalypse-scale games, not the standard meta. Sell starter kit sprues for individual units for whatever they're selling for on e-bay. Drop the price of army books, and have full unit info available through a sign-up service on the website. The army book has more fluff, more magic items, painting tips, advice, whole nine yards. You can pay the $15 for a handy reference guide, or just use the bare-bones dealie on the website.
Fix trap units! I'm looking at you, ushtabi. People WANT to use the shit that looks cool, and they want an army that they like to work. Allow volunteers to run games on a Vassal clone to playtest shit. It'll get people pumped up for the game.
Drop the prices on stuff, even just a bit. Make unit boxes cheaper, and drop a lot of the add-ons. Sell companion bitz boxes on the side. MAKE SURE THE VANILLA OPTIONS ARE VIABLE. And MAKE SURE the extra options look GOOD, and maybe change the way a unit can work. Extra armor, shields, halberds, great weapons, whatever.
Make shit like skaven weapon teams easily magnetized.
MAKE THE GAME MORE ACCESSIBLE. Bundles/battleforces/whatever should be about 500 points of a decent lord, a solid core unit, and then something wacky. It should run about $50-$70. Throw in some simple but neat faction-specific terrain. Don't convert shit old models to finecast, leave 'em metal and get started updating them.

>> No.23573466

>>23570276

>putting Ward near fantasy

>> No.23573525

Chaos Wastes. An open free-roamer where you begin the game by picking your tribe of origin (seafaring Norse? Kurgan Nomad? Hung horseman?). You set out into the world. Perhaps you'll fight beside your clan and earn yourself honour and clansmen and spoils. Making a name for yourself as the lesser races to the south fear your might.

But then you hit a mortal experience cap... and you think you want something more. So you journey to the north. The game gets harder the further you progress. In place of bustling towns you see strange, eldritch cities of magic and sorcery where foul beings gather and mingle. As you progress you gain inhuman levels of strength, and become clad in the ensorcelled armour of chaos as you then return as a monstrous warrior of chaos and unleash hell on the pathetic mortals of the old world.

Or perhaps you keep going, and become a Daemon Prince.

>> No.23573737

>>23570243
>How would you attempt to make Warhammer Fantasy as unique and interesting as 40K to boost sales?
>as unique and interesting as 40K to boost sales?
>as unique and interesting as 40K
>to boost sales

Everyone else is talking about reducing prices but I think what you want to talk about is changing the fluff.
In which case, there is nothing to be done.

Warhammer Fantasy has a great setting and fluff and it's pretty special.

If I wanted to boost sales for Fantasy to compare to 40k I'd try and get a bunch of warhammer video games to be made to advertise fantasy in the same way 40k has been advertised.

Aside from that and schlock (which is too intense for fantasy), the only thing 40k has over fantasy is very recognisable characters. Space Marines to the general public and the Emperor and Chaos gods for the Internet public.

So perhaps I would work at elevating some faction or particular character to be the poster boy. Maybe Gotrek? He's pretty fucking warhammer. Then put him on the front of every Big Red Book edition and other promo material.

>> No.23573781

>>23570243
Go back to the roots. Release a skirmish scale game set in WF to get people collecting models. Keep the Fantasy Battle rules around as an 'alternative' for those who want to play massed armies, but make the focus on smaller engagements where individual heroes shine. Smaller number of models makes barrier of entry lower, and encourages people to start collecting several armies.

>> No.23573787

I hate how the entire map of WHFB is known.

Years ago when I played I remember there just being a small map showing the area around the empire and where the nearby factions' regions were. It created this sense of the majority of the world being unknown and vast.

But nope. Everything is mapped now.

>> No.23573788

>>23570276

>put the codexes back into paperback

>> No.23573959

>>23573788
There's no reason to have hard cover army books, it just rises prices.

>> No.23573982

>>23573959
But it looks nicer. And I feel better with paying more for a nice book than less for a shitty one

>> No.23574055

||>>23573982||
Looking nice is irrelevant to the function. It just raises costs for no benefit.

>> No.23574084

I wouldn't touch the fluff. 40k only dominates in America, mainly because we love guns and don't care for fantasy. Ask any normal American which they were more open to playing, Fallout or Skyrim and most will say Fallout. Fantasy is still seen as nerdy, where anything with guns in it can be identified with Call of Duty. I think the same thinking transfers into Table Top.

Rumor is a new rule book is in the making right now, so that's step one. I would tone down Magic, get rid of the Horde destroying spells. I would keep Hordes, as I think they 1) look cool, 2) they make shitty units viable against stronger units by giving them the ability to swarm small elite units... at least in theory. In reality it just led to giant blocks of elite units, and shitty units don't even bother and just bus it up for the steadfast. So to fix this I would do the following.

1) No single unit can be more than 20% of your army cost. This will put an end to huge blocks of badass troops and leave the horde rule more open to cheap infantry.

2) Flanking breaks Steadfast.

3) Fix Weapon skill rolls back to being like Str/Toughness. The game is way to focused on strength and toughness. Weapon Skill rolls are way more forgiving of differences than str/toughness rolls. On top of that Strength drops armor saves, which makes Strength the most useful stat in the game.

4) Make it so units cannot have more than double the amount of ranks than their files. Put an end to the retarded unit trains.

5) Make winds of magic scale for point values.The scaling could be simple, like 1d6 for each 500 pts. Adjust the cost of spells accordingly. This would make the really op spells only viable in high point games.

6) Drop the long range -1 modifier for Shooting, make close range give a +1 instead. As of now shooting is mostly worthless.

7) Make cannon shots drift to the sides as well. No more sniper cannons.

>> No.23574086

||>>23573788||
||>>23573959||
||>>23573982||


Why not have two versions?

>> No.23574132

||>>23573959||

The reason is so that the book no longer falls apart after a couple years.

I got the Ork codex about two years and it has mostly stayed in my house, I've haven't really taken it anywhere.

The damn HQ page fell out a week ago.

Besides they look way nicer.

>> No.23574571

>>23573737

Gotrek's armed with a great axe.

Polite sage 'cause of that. I like the theory and counter theory.

>> No.23574606

>>23574084

>tone down magic

pls no.

>> No.23575033

It almost seems like Fantasy needs an ultra-macho manly army, like the muhreens are in 40k.

As it is, the main dudes in Fantasy are sorta vaguely German guys I guess? And they wear lots of feathers and floppy hats and big foofy sleeves. And they rely on shooting people with muskets instead of KICKING THEM IN THE FACE WITH YOUR FEET MADE OF CHAINSAWSWORDS THAT YOU STRAPPED TO YOUR FEET SO YOU CAN CHAINSAW BETTER.

I'm just saying, you need a Paladins of Sigmar or whatever army to market at the 40kids.

>> No.23575118

Let someone other than Ward write new core rules since those are the biggest reason. Make the game require less huge units.

>> No.23575155

HA HA, TIME FOR CHAOS!
I would promote Fantasy more, and give some decent game companies the rights for WFB. They are not given free hands, however, as i don't want them to fuck up the setting.

>> No.23575162

>>23575033
Witch Hunters are Paladins of Sigmar already.

>> No.23575171

Stop the stupid dance of nerfing whatever unit used to be OP into oblivion in the next army book.

People don't want to see their (expensive) models invalidated and made into burdens on their armies, particularly when they've put so many hours of work into painting them.

Just bring them back to a reasonable level, and be done. Enough of the kneejerk reactions and bringing them down to uselessness, and enough of making whatever unit hasn't been selling king of the next edition.

>> No.23575182

>>23575033
Witch hunters are angry badasses allready, not to mention the Warrior Priests.
In my opinion, the Empire is more manly than muhreens in their own way.

>> No.23575237

>>23575182

Yeah, but you aren't twelve. They aren't badasses in a way that a twelve year old wants them to be.

>> No.23575266

>>23570243
Release a press anouncement on 2013-04-01 stating:
"Well guys, Aprils fools. 8th Edition was just a joke. You all fell for it."

...instant sales-boost

>> No.23575282

>>23575237
Oh yeah, i forgot the target demographic of these games.
Well, my mind is blank. I guess 40kids will eat the whole warhammer franchise.

>> No.23575290

>>23575266

You mean like 4th Ed D&D?

>> No.23575296

>>23575266

To be honest, I never got the whole "Random charge ranges ruined the game" 8th Edition Hate.

I realise there is more to it than that, but in my opinion, 7th Edition came down to "Can you more accurately eyeball your charge ranges better than your opponent? If yes, win. If no, lose."

The new edition is about having all the information you need in front of you, and making judgement calls based on hard numbers and statistics. Even to someone who doesn't know any better than "I will roll a 7+ on 2D6 about half the time", he's got information and he's making a cost/benefit decision based on it, instead of looking at the table and guessing.

>> No.23575303

>>23574084
hold it right there! we at GW have a strict policy of not making sense

>> No.23575306

>>23570638
>price of production stays the same
>molds degenerate faster
>more materials needed, more workers
>profit from each box goes down

sounds like a solid business plan

>> No.23575325

>>23570243

Put all of the focus onto Blood Bowl

>> No.23575350

>>23575296
Then again: Why is such randomness needed? For 40k it makes sense because it is about a "dirty skirmish"-style of combat. WHFB on the other hand is about a more "clean" regiment-based type of combat. Randomness just gets in the way of this.

8th has only been fixing things that weren't broken.

>>23575290
No. While I don't really like 4th, it had some nice ideas.

>> No.23575362

>>23575306
Is the profit margin of GW even 20%?!

>> No.23575365

>>23575296

Thing is, the charges AREN'T completely random. You still add your basic movement to it, and Cavalry get further bonuses to make it manageable.
Charges went from "How surreptitiously can I measure the distance between these two units using my wrist and elbow without my opponent looking" to "How well do you understand bell curve mathematics".

The problem with Fantasy is opaque rules like how Hordes and Steadfast can't be removed via disruption. How you can still parry attacks from behind or from the sides. How Monstrous creatures and infantry both got buffs but Cavalry didn't.
How the basic magic lores are incredibly powerful now (although the new book lores are closer than they were previously).
Also only getting 6 magic items to a book just because of the Generic List feels like two little, I'd have preferred twice that.

That said, there is stuff that 8th ed is doing right. You no longer NEED a spellcaster in an army to survive the magic phase. It helps, but it's not required. Fear is a lot more balanced now, Monstrous infantry and creatures NEEDED that boost and it's not an overbuff either.

Overall I'd say if we make the rules more consistent across the board then things will improve.

>> No.23575368

>>23575033
It's dorfs.

Dorfs are the most characterful 'good' army of Fantasy (has to be good guys)

Everything should be dorfs.

Manly looking guys with huge beards that are as wide as they are tall that get shit faced, hate everything, all honour, all the time and kill things with axes and hammers.

Dorfs.

>> No.23575380

>>23575368

I would pay so much money for a Slayers vs Ogres (Or Trolls, or any other large monster here. Ogres seemed most plausible because Core) starter set.

>> No.23575389

>>23575380
Problem there is we got Dwarves in starter set not two editions ago.

Ogres MIGHT happen, but I don't think we'd get Dwarves with them. Empire maybe? Have we ever gotten Empire in a starter set?

>> No.23575396

>>23575389

Empire vs Orcs was three editions ago.

To be honest, my money is on Bretonnians vs Beastmen

Possibly swapping out Brets for WElves, but that seems less likely.

>> No.23575398

>>23570243
Keep everything the same, apart from lowering the prices.

In Europe, I believe Fantasy sells better than 40K.

>> No.23575401

>>23575396
>Bretonnians in a starter set
>New Bret rulebook

YES.

>> No.23575404

No hardback codexes because I hate them, cut prices with 50%, make the WD focus on all aspects of the GW hobby, make old models available, hire William King to write all the WHFB fluff and remove the bling from Space Marines.

>> No.23575406

>>23575396

>Bretonnians and Beastmen

>> No.23575410

>>23575404

>remove the bling from space marines

wat.

>> No.23575413

>>23575401

Alternatively

>New Beastman Book

Also good!

>> No.23575423

>>23575410
Space Marines looking like a walking shrine is lame and makes them look tacky.

>> No.23575425

>>23575413

Beastmen only relatively recently got a book.

Sure it sucks, but fucking wait for HE, WE, Brets, Dorfs, Lizards... fucking everyone else who is still waiting.

>> No.23575427

>>23570243
>implying that 40k is unique and interesting.

>> No.23575431

>>23575396
I would bet on Chaos in the next starter box.

>> No.23575433

>>23575423

First of all

>opinions

Second

>hey guys how do we advance things?
>I know, let's scrap a large proportion of what we already have! Thereby setting us back!
>brilliant!

Third. This is a thread about WHFB. Get off your 40k whining for 5 minutes.

>> No.23575434

>>23574084
>Flanking breaks Steadfast.
But it already does.

>> No.23575437

>>23575423

Space marines have always looked like walking shrines faglord.

>> No.23575439

>>23573787
We still don't know what the fuck is on that island that corresponds to Australia.

>> No.23575441

>>23575425

Dorfs aren't really waiting for a new book because we all know it will gut the Rune rules like a fish.

>> No.23575446

>>23575441

>STREAMLINING
>IT'S WHAT THE PLAYERS WANT!

>> No.23575449

There is nothing wrong with the fluff for Warhammer, the Warhammer Fantasy world is better than 40k. And it does outsell 40k in many places.

>> No.23575458

>>23575427
I never implied that. I just think Space Marines should look more high tech and less superstitious compared to the rest of the Imperium. The bling and shrine bullshit undermines that.

>> No.23575462

>>23575458

Why should they look more high tech and less superstitious? They're warrior monk crusader knights in space. Many of them come from feral worlds with primitive beliefs.

>> No.23575467

>>23575437
Not until 4th edition. That's when the shrine faggotry got out of hand.

>> No.23575474

>>23575462
I just think it looks lame and it's my opinion not a fact.

>> No.23575477

>>23575467

And yet this piece of art predates 4th edition. There are numerous pieces like it, and plenty of the older models like Calgar and the space wolf characters for instance were blinged out to the max.

>> No.23575480

>>23575474

Care to show something that gives us an idea of what you think would not be lame?

>> No.23575482

>>23575458
I would just like to point out that space marines are not a common site in the Old World, and as such I don't think the level of decoration they possess is that important to improving Warhammer Fantasy sales.

>>23575449
Yeah I thought it was more popular in Europe, but 40k was more popular in Gunistan.

>> No.23575489

>>23575477
Yes, it's a fucking Grey Knight that had the shtick of being a mysterious arcane looking faction. Now everyone gets washed with that gimmicky bleach.

>> No.23575495

Pc games

World of warhammer
Starhammer
Battlefield warhammer
World of armoured vehicles
Counterhammer
Minehammer
Farhammer
Grand theft hammer
Civilihammer
Hammerhammer
Sim hammer
Leauge of hammers
Call of hammer
Hammercraft
Hammer raider
Team hammer
Need for hammer
Hammerman

>> No.23575497

>>23575482
It was not in relation to WHFB you tit.

>> No.23575504

>>23575495
Apparently there was talk of a Warhammer fantasy game made by the Total War people.

>> No.23575508

>>23575489

Fine, have some templars.

>> No.23575515

>>23575497
The whole thread should be about warhammer fantasy, you bumface.

>> No.23575520

>>23575495

You forgot War: Total Hammer.
Is that because it's actually happening?

>> No.23575526

>>23575497

Then why are you bringing it up in the WHFB thread? Did you misspost?

>> No.23575546

>>23575508
Also something that exclusive to a particular line. My complaint is that all the Space Marines iconography is over designed in all factions now. Black Templar didn't even have the tunics on all their models until 4E.

>> No.23575555

>>23570307
>Minis are a dying, niche hobby
>Games Workshop has only excelled throughout the recession, having some of the most profitable quarters they've ever had

I don't think they'd listen to you, man.

>> No.23575557

>>23575546
I dont know what you want exactly. Should most space marines have the style of the Imperial fists? Why is that an improvement and not just a change in style?

>> No.23575567

>>23575482
>Yeah I thought it was more popular in Europe, but 40k was more popular in Gunistan.
That statement seems to be often repeated on 4chan when it comes to these discussions, but does anyone have any actual figures to back it up? I tried googling it up when the subject was brought up a few times before, and could never really find anything conclusive.

Personally, I'd say that one of the more important reasons why 40k is more popular is that it's simply far more present in pop culture. Look at modern GW related video games. You have the Dawn of War series for 40k (I know at least a dozen people who first found out about 40k because of DoW games.), which is extremely popular even to this day. Fantasy only had that failed MMO (Thanks, EA!). But then again, there's a Creative Assembly WHFB games being developed, so that will probably bring the setting a lot more exposure.

And besides video games, what's the deal with roleplaying games? 40k has Dark Heresy, Deathwatch, Rogue Trader, Only War and Black Crusade. With Black Crusade and Only War being pretty new. What does Fantasy have? I only know of one.

Then there's also the amount of books being released. 40k has far more, especially with the Horus Heresy series. True, they're kinda making a fantasy version of HH with those Time of Legends novels, but that's still nowhere near as big.

>> No.23575573

>>23575557
I give up. I need to get shit done. Go back to talk about WHFB.

>> No.23575584

Quadruple all prices.

>> No.23575607

Not sure WHF will ever sell well compared to 40K
>Walk into shop
>You are 12
>2 games, one is a rip-off of Lord of the rings
>The other is a rip off of lord of the rings... IN SPACE

Just sayin'

Accept it'll never sell as well and enjoy it for what it is

>> No.23575612

>>23575546

>Black Templar didn't even have the tunics on all their models until 4E

But it was there in the concept art and the fluff. People converted that shit onto them. The front fucking cover of the 3rd edition rulebook had tabard wearing black templars as the centrepiece.

I'll concede that basic kits have expanded in the options they give you... so fucking what? They're options. You can attach them to the model or not. It's your fucking choice.

But don't act like blingee marines haven't always existed in the setting, just look at Blanchian concept art or any of the old art. You can see marines of all different chapters toting banner poles and purity seals and parchments and chains of skulls and other shit.

>> No.23575627

I stop producing 40k. Now the GW drones need to buy WHFB for their fix.

>> No.23575629

>>23575520
CA bought rights to fantasy, doesn't mean it'll be a Total War game. CA have a few other franchises too

>> No.23575636

>>23575607
When I was 12 I liked WHFB better than 40k. The space opera shit was not relevant to me back then.

>> No.23575642

>>23575629
It would make sense to make Total Warhammer, though.

>> No.23575662

>>23575629
They haven't officially stated it, but it's the thing they're good at, and a TW games has an extremely popular WHFB mod, and the setting itself is great for that kind of game. I'd be honestly surprised if they were making something like Knight of the White Wolf: Total Warrior.

>> No.23575693

I would hire competent people that enjoy Warhammer Fantasy and let them have a go. Then I would start improving 40k while they did their thing.

>> No.23575710

>>23575458
... It clearly says in the OP that 40k is original and interesting

>How would you attempt to make Warhammer Fantasy as unique and interesting as 40K

>> No.23575716

>>23575629

Spartan: Total Warrior, and that Viking Game.

GW specifically pointed out the scale of CA games when they announced the deal. It's going to be a Total War game.

>> No.23575880

>>23575662
>>23575716
I dunno, when you look at the 40k space marine series they might think that is the way to go with fantasy. Or something else entirely.

The Total War series is still devving Rome 2, and the series has focussed on history. Throwing in a fantasy game is a bit too much of a mixup for a series these days.

>> No.23575910

>>23575567
>What does Fantasy have? I only know of one.
But in three versions it is with us from 80's.
And 2ed is one of the best rpg's ever.

>> No.23575917

>>23575607
>2 games, one is a rip-off of Lord of the rings
But one of the best points of Warhammer is that it is not your generic Fantasy, like D&D for example.

>> No.23575926

>>23575917

WHFB is very generic. Good, haughty Elves, Bad evil elves, Elves that live in the woods. Drunken miner dwards. Evil people the live in the north. Empire of humans is the 'big faction'.

>> No.23575928

>>23575693
>I would hire competent people that enjoy Warhammer Fantasy and let them have a go
Like bringing Alessio Cavatore back?
I'm sold.

>> No.23575937

>>23575926
Sorry, but by your generalization, every Fantasy system is generic.
If you can't spot some obvious differences, well, it's your problem, not mine.

>> No.23575952

Funnel more money into video games. Minis are dying out. Only the most stringent autist and dedicated neckbeard still buys 40K and Fantasy figures. The kids aren't picking up the hobby, because it's expensive as fuck and you have to do all the work on top of it.

If they made a proper 40K or WHF video game (Dawn of War is okay, but so lacking), they might be able to drum up some money.

Failing that, I would just convert all of Warhammer Fantasy into Blood Bowl, Blood Rink (hockey), Blood Jam (basketball) and Blood Field (soccer).

And I'd remove because they're boring.

WE MUTANT LEAGUE NOW.

>> No.23575963

>>23575937

Now you're just talking out of your ass. A lot of fantasy systems strive to break out of Tolkienesque conventions.

Mouseguard? Fantasy. No elves, no mages, no humans.

Burning Wheel? Fantasy. This shit cray. Worldbuilding mixed in with characters.

Dogs in the Vineyard? Fantasy. Pokerdice bidding? Empathic magic?

Deadlands? Etc.

Get fucking wrekt, you nub. Generic High Fantasy = Generic High Fantasy. Doesn't mean all fantasy is generic.

>> No.23575975

>>23570243
Axe the lot of it. More space marines.

>> No.23575976

>>23575952
>hurr durr minis are dying out

geedubs profits still rising, despite actually having sizable competition from more than one company, kickstarters, kickstarters everywhere.

>> No.23575991

>>23570243

1) 40K is not unique, but it may pass as interesting.
2) Making WHF unique and interesting and making it excel in sales are pretty much two radically different requests. "Uniqueness" is not exactly a marketable strategy.

Making it unique and interesting is easy; just let people who love WHF back in and let them go crazy with it. However, this will not help with sales. Maybe a brief spurt and then it burns out again.

Make money? WHF needs to be more palatable for the masses. Introduce a line of prepainted figures for people that just want to PLAY. Not everyone is an artist -- you're losing out on tons of players because they simply do not want to paint their fucking models.

Sell prepackaged ready to go, painted armies. Not as good as custom armies, but more accessible. Give some money to Skrillex or some faggot to make a Warhammer dubstep and spam it on Twitter and Facebook. Get some celebrity lip service for retards.

>> No.23575996

>>23575928
Success!

…who is Alessio Cavatore?

>> No.23576003

>>23575976

Profit rising does not = minis becoming more and more popular. GW makes money from a lot of sources. And profit is relative to their bottom line. Don't be surprised when games like Warhams go fully digital; it's going to be like arcades dying out.

>> No.23576011

>>23570243

For starters I'd make the main humans not a bunch of faggots running around in PJs.

>> No.23576013

>>23575963
>Get fucking wrekt, you nub
I touched a sensitive point it seems.

If I would generalize like you, I could say that Mouseguard is simple miedieval fantasy with animals. In other words, furry fantasy.

But I know it isn't. Just like Warhammer isn't generic, just because it have forest elves and dwarfes that drink beer.

>> No.23576022

>>23575991
>Make money? WHF needs to be more palatable for the masses
But they already are doing it. Have you seen Warcraft monsters they added to Ogre Kingdoms?

>> No.23576024

>>23576013

Warhammer Fantasy is pretty much the definition of stereotypical fantasy though.

You're basically suggesting that there is no such thing. Stereotypes exist for a reason. Generic is basically a less polite way of saying "offers the same thing that everything else in this field offers", ie, fits all the stereotypes.

LotR/Warhammer/Warcraft/D&D/RuneQuest are THE stereotypical generic fantasy fathers. I don't even see how this is debatable.

>> No.23576028

>>23575996
Guy who is behind 6th edition and many many armybooks.

>> No.23576034

>>23576022

Too little, too late. I think they're just worried about pissing off the grognards that are already so entrenched into their product. It's like moe anime in Japan right now -- they enjoyed the (temporarily) benefits of pandering to their limited audience and got a nice marketshare, but now they're fucked because any time they do something, they have to deal with a deluge of hurtbutts and autismal wailing.

>> No.23576041

>>23576024

Warhammer sort of takes the stereotypes and turns them up to eleven.

Instead of the dwarves just being sort of surly assholes who live underground, they're full on xenophobes who write down the smallest slight against them in blood. Through the generations they will carry that grudge of the time you shorted their great-great-great-great-grandfather for the five gallons of ale he sold to the tiny hamlet that grew into the bustling metropolis you live in now. So when you're besieged by orc raiders, you petition the dwarf king for aid and he just smiles and crosses the grudge out from his book. One more debt repaid.

>> No.23576043

Given there is nothing wrong with fantasy and 40k being more popular is not universal I would not change it, Warhammer Fantasy is a great world as it is.

>> No.23576044

>>23576011
>I'd make the main humans not a bunch of faggots
>bunch of faggots
You can't possibly be more MANLY than facing Orcs or Daemons only in your pajamas and stockings. Are you a Brettonian, perhaps?

>> No.23576053

>>23576024
>Warhammer Fantasy is pretty much the definition of stereotypical fantasy though.
(Cough) Maybe because Warhammer is like, from 80's of previous century? (Cough)

>> No.23576055

>>23576034
>Too little, too late.
But I fuckin hate it. And most other players I know also.

>> No.23576062

>>23576041

Sounds like a normal dwarf to me.

Pretty much what the dwarves were like in the Hobbit even.

>> No.23576065

>>23575716
>Spartan: Total warrior

I remember that.
I'd play Slayer: Total Dwarf

>> No.23576066

>>23576024
>LotR/Warhammer/Warcraft/D&D/RuneQuest are THE stereotypical generic fantasy fathers.
Well cool, but at the same time they quite differ between each other.

>> No.23576068

>>23576053

Lozenge?

>> No.23576070

>>23576062
>hobbit if in the book how so?

>> No.23576076

>>23576022
Example? that does not sound very good.

>> No.23576079

>>23576066

Barely enough to make it matter. Yes, orcs act somewhat different and have different motivations between the games, but at the end of the day, they're fucking strong green brutes. And elves are pointy-eared forest loving ponces. And humans are humans. Magic is hurling around elemental blasts for the most part. They use gold (coins/thrones/crowns/ingot/whatever).

I doubt anyone from any of those respective universes would be THAT out of place if suddenly transported to another game. The average joe could look at an orc from any one of those universes and go "Yeah that's an orc". Generic.

>> No.23576085

>>23576070

See : Thorin.

>> No.23576089

>>23576062
Dwarfs in LoTR don't live fuelled by old grudges to everyone in the whole world (they have special books only for writing down grudges).

Serously, they sieged and destroyed the castle of an Imperial noble, because his grand-grand-grand-grand-grand father "cheated" them when they were building said castle( refusing to pay additional few gold crowns for door or something).

>> No.23576090

>>23576070

Thorin being a huge jew about the Arkenstone and not sharing any of the treasure with the elves and men and getting his main nigga Dain to bring dorf back-up due to slights in the past.

>> No.23576099

>>23576068
Take your witchery and leave town, before I call Witch Hunters, charlatan!

>> No.23576106

>>23576090

Like I said, Warhammer just takes that stuff and turns it up to eleven. It's the same all through the setting.

You guys don't like your wizards? You should see what we do to ours!

You guys have rats in your basement? You should take a look at ours!

>> No.23576109

>>23576079
Except, you know the elves that aren't. And the fact the majority of spells are not that. Also really? you are claiming that using GOLD makes something generic? I would hope you are trolling because claiming every fantasy game should outright make up new elements to replace all the real ones to avoid being generic is stupid.

>> No.23576110

>>23576079
> And elves are pointy-eared forest loving ponces
> forest loving ponces

That barely describes one flavour of elf, the least important one at that.

>> No.23576117

>>23576109

>I would hope you are trolling because claiming every fantasy game should outright make up new weapons to replace all the real ones to avoid being generic is stupid.

>I would hope you are trolling because claiming every fantasy game should outright make up new races to replace all the real ones to avoid being generic is stupid.

>I would hope you are trolling because claiming every fantasy game should outright make up classes elements to replace all the real ones to avoid being generic is stupid.

>I would hope you are trolling because claiming every fantasy game should outright make up new settings to replace all the real ones to avoid being generic is stupid.

>> No.23576121

>>23576076
Thundertusk/Stonehorn, look at this fucker, he shouldn't be able to move.
And that ridiculous Mournfang cavalry.

>> No.23576126

>>23576109

But that is the entire fucking point of fantasy. You should be replacing things! The more the better!

>> No.23576130

>>23576079
Hear, hear, every historical rpg is now same generic shit.

>> No.23576135

WHFB is built on a foundation of generic fantasy, which has been developed past that.

see: beastmen, bretts, lizardmen, tomb kings, skaven, vcs etc etc.

unless someone can point out how these would satisfy the generic fantasy tropes.

>> No.23576140

>>23576110

>No man, the elves are like totally deep and shit, they live a long time and sometimes they're even xenophobic, but they're not really haughty, they just know better

Yeah nah you're a cunt. The most important thing to know about elves is that they have long ears and prance inna woods.

>> No.23576142

>>23576011
Okay, you're obviously a troll.

There's no way anyone could mistake pic related for a faggot.

>> No.23576155

>>23576126
Still idiotic to claim a fantasy world is 'generic' if gold is a yellow shiny valuable metal and iron is a grey tough metal used for stabbing stuff. Not every setting should be a 'different for the sake of different' mess, having castles and humans who have kings is not something that should be criticised as somehow wrong.

>> No.23576168

>>23576140
And you are a troll or you know nothing about Warhammer Fantasy.

>> No.23576176

>>23576121
God I hate that angular/faceted shit they're doing these days.

They're models GW!

YOU DON'T HAVE TO CUT DOWN ON POLYGONS!

>> No.23576183

>>23576135

The fuck are you smoking?

Beastmen/ratmen/werewolves/wererats/etc are older than fucking salt. They're in every fantasy. There's nothing non-generic about them.

Lizardmen? Same thing. Even Conan had to deal with Lizardmen.

Tomb Kings. I'll give you this one. Skeletons and Liches are a dime a dozen in fantasy. But not EGYPTIAN ONES. Oh wait, this was supposed to be fantasy. Why the fuck does Egypt still exist? Actually, this is starting to get less cool and MORE retarded as I examine it!

Bretts? As in Bretonians? As in Humans? Obviously based on historical humans, down to their outfits and armaments?

I don't mind if you're trolling, but at least be a better ruseman. There's nothing unique about any of the shit you mentioned. The only even remotely unique unit in any of those factions is possibly a Slann Mage Priest for the Lizardmen.

>> No.23576186

>>23576121
Ignoring the dodgy monster design for a second, is that an official image? I remember ogres having a much more different skin tone that fit both their 'Not Asia' location and their inhuman nature.

>> No.23576202

>>23576155

Do you even know the meaning of the fucking word generic? That is the definition. The exact thing you are attempting to defend whilst simultaneously claiming it is not.

USING FUCKING GOLD COINS IN A FANTASY SETTING IS GENERIC

>> No.23576205

>>23576183
So no fantasy culture can be based on a real one now or its 'retarded'? And if you were not a troll yourself you would know many races or cultures in Warhammer Fantasy are based on the real world peoples who live in the corresponding area in the real world. And yes, all lizardmen are clearly the same, better put in something that is NEW AND DIFFERENT for the sake of it right? I have also never seen a fantasy setting with ratmen who are like WHFB skaven apart from ones based on the skaven themselves.

>> No.23576217

>>23576205

>It's not generic, it's totally unique
>Oh now if it's based on something real it's retarded?
>if you were not a troll yourself you would know many races or cultures in Warhammer Fantasy are based on the real world peoples
>BUT IT'S UNIQUE, OKAY?

>> No.23576223

I don't know who to link to because this has become a clusterfuck of skaven fighting over a dead baby.

But Warhammer is on the surface level 'generic' but only because it helped to establish what the 'standard fantasy setting' was.

It's initial premise was 'lets take Tolkien races and Outer Gods and put them in a mid-to-late medieval setting'.

At the time, this was different and it provided a rather uniquely varied experience. And it still is, especially compared to a lot of settings that try too hard to shed cliches and prove how clever they are, only to prove why the cliches became so widely used in the first place.

As a setting, Warhammer may seem generic, but that is largely because people are used to it and because wherever you look you WILL FIND SOMETHING familiar, due to the number of influences it draws on.

This is not a bad thing. It provides varied opportunities and interesting interactions.

>Mouseguard? Fantasy. No elves, no mages, no humans.

Sounds like a lot of stuff it doesn't have. But that's okay, because Warhammer has all those things as well as Skaven and beastmen. And next year it will have Pandaren!

>> No.23576224

>>23576202
Well then, you better stop using generic as a way to criticise fantasy settings then. Because if a fantasy setting cannot even have fucking gold coins without being generic then there is nothing wrong with being generic.

>> No.23576226

>>23576205

Please stop shooting yourself in the foot. This is incredibly painful to watch. You're either trolling or just have good intentions and are absolute rubbish at arguing your point.

>> No.23576235

>>23576183
>bretts
>humans
>generic

>> No.23576243

>>23576224

Why would I have to stop using generic as a criticism? There are TONS OF FUCKING GAMES THAT DO NOT USE GOLD COINS.

And secondly, no one ever said generic was bad. The OP post pointed out that WHF should be "unique and interesting" as 40K. Some people merely mentioned that WHF is generic and you were the one that got full assmad and bent out of shape claiming it is not generic, while listing an exhaustive amount of reasons why it isn't generic (but in reality were only confirming exactly how generic and standard it is).

>> No.23576249

>>23576217
Got any actual comments or do you just want to keep trolling? Explain using actual arguments why skaven are generic or point to a setting that does ratmen in a similar way without being based on warhammer. And also explain without further trolling why fantasy cultures should not be based on real life ones.

>> No.23576265

>>23576243
You seem to be under the impression I am the only person pointing out why Warhammer Fantasy is not as generic or unoriginal as people are claiming.

>> No.23576284

>>23576249

>implying GW didn't steal Ratmen from D&D's wererats, who stole them from Fritz Leiber who stole them from fairytales

>> No.23576297

So much assmad in this thread about WHF being generic, which it is. I still love it, but I'm not delusional enough to claim that WHF is unique in any way. There's nothing wrong with reveling in fantasy stereotypes. There's a reason why Lord of the Rings is a classic and still is a mapletap of pure money and profit.

Because it was awesome.

>> No.23576301

>>23576186
They used to have gray skintones, but they switched to a flesh-colored bit of oddness with the newest army book

>> No.23576302

>>23576265

You are. Everyone knows that WH is a melting pot of thievery and stereotypes. It's like claiming Warcraft was unique.

>> No.23576303

>Hey guys, everyone else is so generic and shit in the toilet.
>I shit on my own face because I'm a real connoisseur of genericism.
>Look how much better I am.

Present a damn argument as to why something being generic is bad.

>> No.23576330

>>23576303

You don't even define what you're fucking talking about.

>Warhammer Fantasy is Generic.
>FUCK YOU IT ISN'T HERE'S WHY
>...That's what Generic means.
>OKAY FUCK YOU SO IT'S GENERIC WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL

What exactly are you trying to do here? Convince more people to play Warhammer Fantasy, or do you just have a big hard on for arguing?

At the end of the day, it's still going to be generic and I'm still not going to buy minis.

>> No.23576332

>>23576301
Well that is a shame, I liked their previous look.

>> No.23576357

>>23576332
I agree with ya, but the people in charge at GW seem to not make the best decisions.

>> No.23576361

>mfw people arguing whether or not a game called Weapon Fantasy is Generic or not

>> No.23576392

Introduce a new army called the ultraknights - heavily armoured blue coloured knights who have ridiculously good toughmess, strength, leadership and amazing armor saves

Make them the spiritual lieges of the forces of order


All written by matt ward

>> No.23576420

>>23576330
I am not that guy you're arguing with.

My posts were all on topic until
>>23576223

I've never said Warhammer isn't 'generic' just that generic has negative connotations that don't necessarily apply.

What if someone's perfect setting is an historical late medieval Europe, except people have to fight monsters?

To you, this is generic.

To them, this is just what they want. A variation on a pre-existing concept that is tailored to be the most interesting to them.

I prefer 'realistic' fantasy settings or 'historically accurate' settings that have a stronger grounding in reality- what you would call generic.
I'm not saying Warhammer applies to this , but the reason I prefer such settings to other more fantastical ones is that the fantastical ones often like to throw in a bunch of weird shit without actually considering in what way it would effect the world.

In the end, the fantasy world populated entirely by sock puppets functions in much the same way as our world or any other.

I like 'generic' settings because of their similarity to pre-existing concepts or reality. I like this similarity because when something in the setting is different (for instance, the presence of another humanoid species) it is considered in more depth and has the greater chance to focus on this difference.

I would also add that settings can go overboard and remove any form of familiarity. People may not really enjoy playing in these settings and in fact, most often do not.

That is why settings are often 'generic'- it is because they are actually familiar, to give a greater contrast to the fantasy elements.

>> No.23576458

I don't know you, kids, but in my case back in the early 90s the only setting we know about in Spain with steampunk, early modern era civilizations and Moorcock elements was WHF.
You know what is generic? Dragonlance.
Now that is fucking generic.

>> No.23576473

>>23576420

Nobody was questioning WHY Warhammer was generic. Generic = stereotypes, stereotypes exist because people find what they like and what works so they continually use it or spread it around until it becomes the standard.

Regardless of something being "what they want", it does not change the fact that it is "generic".

Most people on this board are fairly seasoned gamers and fantasy consumers. Yes, we're familiar with generic and likely enjoy it. However, we require something new and unique to prevent things from getting stale.

If you are the kind of person that is able to endlessly and repeatedly consume and enjoy generic material, then consider yourself blessed. Some people are bored to their wits of Tolkien 2.0 and 3.0 and I suspect this is why Warhammer 40K trounces the utter shit out of Fantasy in terms of sales and support. I'm not claiming that 40K is unique (it borrows liberally from a lot of other materials and sources as WHF does), but because Sci-Fi Fantasy is not as common ground or mainstream, it manages to avoid being generic in relation to the masses.

>> No.23576477

>>23575290

You mad 3aboo/Pathfag?

>> No.23576494

>>23576458

I don't know about you, but I just played Stormbringer instead, since I'd rather play a straight up Moorcock game.

Also I loved Dragonlance. Kenders can get fucked.

>> No.23576502

>>23576477

Why would he be mad? 4E was such an utter failure that WotC is rushing out the newest hottest turd called 5E for damage control.

>> No.23576585

i would do what there already trying to do, merge the 2, one core rule book for both systems, once the book is good then just keep adding new books that bring in new units for armies and new missions every now and then to sell more minis, also eventually take the whole game digital as well

>> No.23576599

>>23575439
Big fucking deal.

>> No.23576607

>>23570307
Mins arent a dying niche, GWS prices are slowly beginning to ostracize them from the market which is finally starting to fully develop on its own separate to GW.

Id revamp mordheim and scale the warband size up add small skirmish units of certian things.

Id scale down fantasy, 40k is beating fantasy because ppl can play smaller games with friends and involve them in a fun learning process.

Fantasy its just pay a shit load of cash to be someones wiping boy for months and months till you learn the game.

And god forbid you picked the wrong fantasy army or you just have no hope, they system is so restrictive you cant "Make a weak dex work somewhat." like you can in 40k.

In fantasy its too rigid to pull stuff like that off.

>> No.23576619

>>23576502

[citation needed]

>> No.23576629

>>23576607

>And god forbid you picked the wrong fantasy army

This.

>> No.23576651

>>23576619

Mike Mearls actually called 4E an utter failure. Probably just trying to hype up 5E, but it was a dumb move either way.

>> No.23576661

>>23576629

Name a Fantasy army that has no way to compete in 8th Edition.

>> No.23576697

>>23576661

I'll give you two.

Beastmen and Woodelves.

>> No.23576712

>>23576697
You'd be wrong though.

>> No.23576716

>>23576661

dogs of war

>> No.23576723

>>23576607
>And god forbid you picked the wrong fantasy army or you just have no hope, they system is so restrictive you cant "Make a weak dex work somewhat." like you can in 40k.
Wat

>> No.23576732

>>23576716

Dogs of War are no longer a supported product. You might as well say 'Chaos Dwarves'. The army doesn't exist anymore.

>> No.23576735

>>23576712

Come at me any time with either army.

>> No.23576758

>>23576661

Beastmen

>> No.23576770

>>23576697
>Beastmen and Woodelves.
They both can give hell to their opponents.
Sure, the number of builds is limited (or so I've heard, I've only seen them, not played) but you can easily make a tourney army with both.

And before someone brings Bretonnians into this, they still can make competitive rape lists. Their cavalry formations aren't automatically winning everything now, but for me it actually is a good thing.

>> No.23576778

Speaking strictly as someone who has never played fantasy, the biggest obstacle for me is the price. When the average game size is 2000+ points, I don't exactly feel comfortable shelling out the money and time to buy, assemble, and paint massive fuck-huge hordes of troops. Another problem is the vast quantity of factions available. Which means that it takes longer for armies to get updates in terms of rules and models.

I'd make a few small changes elsewhere, like adding in allies like 40k. It'd open the floodgates for cheesy powergaming, but it would allow for some really cool things too. For example, playing a Dark Elves pleasure cult with some Slaaneshi Chaos Warrior or Daemon allies. I'd give the Empire and Bretonians an overhaul in terms of their appearance as well. Make the Empire look even more like a Renaissance army with pike and shot units, with steampunk-ish engineer creations providing support, and take some visual cues for the Brets from a Game of Thrones.

>> No.23576780

>>23576735
And what are you playing?
Because I saw Beastmen winning against both new WoC and Ogres.

>> No.23576782

>>23576732

Um, what rock have you been living under?

Chaos Dwarves are a legal list again thanks to Tamurkhan. They are a decent list too. Only a few good builds, but competitive to be sure.

>> No.23576788

>>23576778
Also, Dogs of War need to be a thing again.

>> No.23576791

>>23576770

Except you will never win that tournament. Making a "tourneylist" and being competitively viable are two different things.

Skavens, High Elves and WoC shit on everything.

>> No.23576795

>>23576697

They have less competitive options than other armies. That I will certainly give you.

They can both field serious lists if the need arises, though.

>> No.23576796

>>23576780

High Elves. I would utterly merc the fuck out of any Beastman list.

>> No.23576803

>>23576778
>Make the Empire look even more like a Renaissance army with pike and shot units, with steampunk-ish engineer creations providing support
But they already did, they already did!
(sobs frantically)

>> No.23576806

>>23576661
Its not just black and white about armies that are not workable at all or are.

For example the craftworld eldar dex for 40k, the oldesnt dex going besides sisters, on first glance it looks weak as shit.

Suddenly lists pop up that work more or less like.

Eldrad
Avatar

Wraithguard shield unit
Bare bones dire avengers
Rangers
Bikes

Fireprism
Warwalkers

Fill out the rest with your own style / needs.
Oh look eldar still kicking ass, we just swapped from mechdar to nasty defensive shooty fortuned ass rape.

Tell me what army in fantasy could make a style switch like that and stay relevant with an ancient dex like the eldar?

If cannons, bows, or knights got nerfed what would Dwarves, Bretts and WE do besides die a lot?

Thats why 40k beats fantasy.

>> No.23576807

Whats worse, high tier vs low tier in WFB (e.g. Demons vs Beastmen)
or high tier vs low tier in 40k (e.g Grey Knights vs Tyranids)

>> No.23576811

>>23576780

Cool story bro.

Please point me to a major tournament in which Beastmen or Wood Elves have won Best Overall or Best General in 2012 or 2013.

>> No.23576819

>>23576723
Go play more warhammer is "Wat."

>> No.23576826

>>23576791
>Skavens, High Elves and WoC shit on everything.
And how is that an argument?
Beside, Lizardmen, Vampire Counts, Dark Elves and Empire can take those armies no problem.
Others probably also, I can only argue about what I've seen.

>> No.23576828

>>23576806

Except that exact thing happened. In 7th, Wood Elf players tended toward shooting and hit and run tactics, in 8th a dominant tactic is a big mob of Treekin backed up by Life Magic and rammed headfirst down your opponent's throat. It's a complete turnaround for the army.

>> No.23576832

>>23576807

Probably WFB.

>> No.23576837

>>23576828

Oh noooo not a Treekin? Whatever will I dooo? I better roll over and die.

Treekin with Life Magic is supposed to be a turnaround? Seriously?

>> No.23576847

>>23576796
More because some of your units are overpowered, than Beastmen being shit.
I hope you will get new armybook soon (those goddamn Toads too)

>> No.23576848

>>23576826

I play Lizardmen and Empire, and no, bro. Just no. Do you play at tourneys?

>> No.23576849

Pfft. Why don't they just publish an ally chart like they published in 40k?

That way people would buy a variety of models and shit. It would also add variety and flavor to armies.

>> No.23576860

>>23576837

It's changed the way the army plays. This is what we were talking about. Big solid blocks of infantry being resurrected and buffed is a completely different army to the old death by a thousand cuts style Wood Elves.

Read the post I was responding to and try to tell me I didn't respond to it.

>> No.23576893

>>23576828
And is it happening now?
Nope.

Does it happen as often as it does with 40k?
Not even close.

40k just lets you work more within the game play to eek out a win, fantasy is more in the math of the list and smashing them both together head on and hope your math wins out not theirs, because of that fantasy is more dependent on the initial balance of the source material and GW doesnt always understand or follow balance.

>> No.23576900

>>23576860

You didn't. CW Eldar actually were useful; their change was a literal turnaround. It was an EFFECTIVE change in the way the army plays.

Switching shitty wood elf spam with shitty treekin rush isn't much of a swap at all because they're both still shit.

>> No.23576924

>>23576893

Wait, you're telling me "Roll dice to see if the shooty army kills the melee army before they reach us" the Game gives you more options to do things during the game to bring out a win.

I'm sorry, I didn't realise this was that sort of a conversation. Carry on without me.

>> No.23576936

>>23576806
>If cannons, bows, or knights got nerfed what would Dwarves, Bretts and WE do besides die a lot?
Cannons
Dwarves are still crazy tough in close combat.

Bows
Elves would use Treekins and Driads more, just like they do right now.

Knights
8ed nerfed cavalry, and Bretonnians are still doing good. Sure, they are not self-winning rape-train like they were before, but thats actually a good thing.

>> No.23576944

>>23576924
Actually, it does.

Because you can have different guns to shoot people with.

Let's be honest. Both games are really just terrible, but we play them anyway because otherwise we'd be giving our friends money when we lose at poker.

>> No.23576951

>>23576819
I play more Warhammer than 40k.
And it's giving me plenty of fun.
What's your point?

>> No.23576974

>>23576924
Im saying free form squad movement, deepstrike, cover, more TYPES of units (MC's, infantry, jump infantry, bikes, vehicles, skimmers, fliers, etc.) add tactical depth that fantasy doesnt have with its "Massive blocks of troops marching straight towards each other while i shoot my mostly immobile gunline." gameplay.

Im sorry you decided to troll because you couldnt add anything worth a damn.

Dont let the door hit you on the way out.

>> No.23576983

>>23576848
Yep. I play Empire and my friend Lizardmen.
And he usually ends in top 5.
How can you fail with all those nasty magic tricks ans skinks?
(And Empire was going really strong in European Championship a bit ago, I'm not sure about most recent developments)

>> No.23576995

>>23575033

>what is Dwarves
>what is Warriors of Chaos

>> No.23577010

>>23576893
>40k just lets you work more within the game play to eek out a win
Tell that to those Tyranid players.

>> No.23577045

>>23577010
They are a special exception to the rule.

That dex was just written bad, from day one it was bad.
The head nurse spoke up said leave this one alone she could tell right away it was bad to the bone.

God damnit its bad.

>> No.23577060

>>23576974
Oh I'm sorry, does remembering all those rules make your head hurt?

>tactical depth
Sorry, but there is much more of "tactical depth" included in WFB game, where you can't joyfully run around however you want.

>> No.23577073

>>23576974
>fantasy doesnt have with its "Massive blocks of troops marching straight towards each other while i shoot my mostly immobile gunline." gameplay.
Oh I'm so sorry for all those BORING historical battles.

>> No.23577081

>>23574132
my Chaos Space marines codex (the old one, not the new thing with fucking zoids (man what the fuck)) had the middle fall out in six months.

>> No.23577140

>>23576806
>>Make the Empire look even more like a Renaissance army with pike and shot units, with steampunk-ish engineer creations providing support
>But they already did, they already did!
>(sobs frantically)
Eldar armies like that get wiped by 3x Pred Annh and 3x Rifleman armies, tau armies, and dark eldar armies. That list is shit. Eldar don't have jack for ranged firepower except in heavy slots right now. Other factions have way better for ranged firepower. See 3-9x Leman Russ with flyer or artillery support.

>> No.23577151

>>23576807
Daemons got their teeth kicked in in the new codex. Daemons ain't top of the pile no more

>> No.23577164

>>23577073
>>23577060

Stop being but hurt, this is why fantasy is dying, im sorry i had to be the one to tell you.
If you get butt hurt cause 40k is more popular for good reason its not my problem.

>Oh I'm so sorry for all those BORING historical battles.
Lizardmen, skaven, demons, dragons, magic, elves, treemen, minotaurs.

>Historical.

>> No.23577169

>>23577151

Yeah I know but in WFB they are still good

>> No.23577200

>>23577140
But they do have double saves speed, reliable deepstrike and hit fucking hard, and laugh at flyers and psychics in almost any amount.

Confirmed for not understanding how eldar work.

List isnt a list is an outline, and its not shit, you dont understand eldar.

Go post in the next eldar general that footslogging is shit, see what people say to you

We arent here to debate the fact you obviously havent got any experience with good eldar players, this is about saving fantasy.

>> No.23577236

>>23577200
He thinks his 3x riflemen and preds wont become slag filled diareha to the 6th ed hawks.

He will rage as they skyleap and get rdy to do it again offering next to no chance to retaliate.

At this point asking people about 6th ed and foot dar is the fucking test to see if someone understands 40k or just pretends to over the net.

>> No.23577255

>>23577140
>Opinion on Empire army
>Response about Eldars getting wiped by other 40k factions
I'm confused.

>> No.23577262

>>23577236
Or the 5++/5++ 6t wraith cannons that get in his fucking face.

Or the harlies he wont even be able to target before they get in charge range, and eat him with rending.

Too many net list reading know nothings on /tg/ these days.

>> No.23577271

>>23577164
>this is why fantasy is dying,
I guess this is a question of place you live in, because I don't see any of that "fantasy is dying".

>> No.23577281

Republish 3rd Ed Fantasy

>> No.23577293

>>23577271
It does seem to be geographic somewhat.

However i think its been confirmed numbers are down overall across the board.

>> No.23577308

>>23577164
>Oh I'm so sorry for all those BORING historical battles.
>Lizardmen, skaven, demons, dragons, magic, elves, treemen, minotaurs.
>Historical.

You claimed that "Massive blocks of troops marching straight towards each other while i shoot my mostly immobile gunline" are boring".
And I pointed out most historical battles were like this.
Are you into reading comprehension?

>> No.23577322

>>23577308
And it was a radom tangent that had nothing to do with the topic just you shooting off any way you could after being told.

Are you into not being a moron?

>> No.23577349

A second emperor is born on the planet of WHF.

>> No.23577369

>>23577349
We already have awesome one, please take your away.

>> No.23577379

>>23577322
Well you try to force your opinion (old battles were boring, they had to fight in formations and shit) as a fact. I'd say you are a moron.

>> No.23577460

>>23576974

That's the thing, games don't play out like that.

In Fantasy, someone pulls a funky move and lines up their cavalry for a flank charge with magic or fancy manoeuvring, you're in a lot of trouble.

Someone does the same thing in 40k and you go "So what? My side is exactly the same as my front. Go round the back if you like, it's all going to achieve the same shit."

In Fantasy where you put your shit matters, how they support each other matters, and how you respond to what your opponent matters so much more than it does in 40k.

>> No.23577468

>mfw /tg/ has decent business acumen

>> No.23577522

>>23575495
>Civillihammer
FUND IT.

>> No.23577644

>>23577522
>Orc people are upset by long war
>Beastmen people demand better infrastructure!
>Bretonnians developed technology: gunpowder
>Warriors of Chaos wants to trade technology with you
>High Elves forms an alliance with Dark Elves
>The Moot declares war on the Empire
>Most happy nation: Skaven Underempire
>Wood Elves developed technology: industrialization

My sides.
I so fuckin want it.

>> No.23577664

>>23577644
>Skave Underempire denounces your treachery in UN

Haha, it would be gloroius

>> No.23577672

>>23577644
>Skave Underempire denounces Lizardmen treachery in UN

Haha, it would be glorious

>> No.23577739 [DELETED] 

Raging Sea Battles in the World of Warhammer

>> No.23577757

Raging Sea Battles in the World of Warhammer

>> No.23577805

>>23574055
durability is a benefit

>> No.23577895

Simple. I'd make an atmospheric, dark, immersive free roaming RPG game set in the Warhammer Fantasy world.

The Warhammer Scrolls: The Empire.

Core Playable Races:

- Empire
- Bretonnian
- High Elf
- Dwarf
- Ogre

Wild Playable Races (will inspire hostility if approach Empire settlements):

- Wood Elf
- Orc
- Goblin
- Dark Elf
- Skaven

Unlockable Classes:

- Warrior of Chaos
- Vampire

>> No.23577909

>>23577379
My opinion was never "old battles were boring."

Where did i state that, i said the fantasy system has less tactical depth then 40k and is more expensive thats why most of the new blood plays 40k.

Dont put words in my mouth.

>> No.23577936

>>23577460
So you can be screwed with bs tricks and funky deployment and have little to react to those flank charges with unless you happen to build a way to counter it before hand?

Got it....

>> No.23577958

>>23577672
>The Skaven just steals all their civ tech from the Dwarves

>> No.23577977

I want to play a WF Visual Novel starring Thanquol and Boneripper

>> No.23577979

>>23577895
Oh, and just so there can be no accusations of excluding people of certain races, humans would be further divided into different nationalities:

- Araby
- Cathay
- Southlands
- Ind
- Kislev
- Nippon
- Estalia

>> No.23578941

I played my first game of fantasy for about 6 months last night (2400 points me high elves him vamps) I had an absolute blast, which is weird as before i left for a break I was getting tired of WFB, so i think they need to add some tactical variation, every game feels the same BIG HORDE VS BIG HORDE CHEESIEST HORDE WINS! So something to break the horde deadlock thats not just magic would be necesary to fix fantasy from a rules perspective as the games fun, but gets samey fast, as i love hordes as well, and dont find it nearly as repetative and i think that may have something to do with the fact add a diffrent caster, whole list chages stuff, and as its a little more balanced you have more freedom in what you take as atm, a large portion of some army lists are only used by modelers or people who genuinly dont care if they loose all the time.

>> No.23579678

>>23575398
Nah it's same as Murrica

>> No.23579760

>>23570243
Kill the brand altogether, or sell the rights to someone who gives a shit and watch them drown on the sinking ship that is Mini Wargaming. The advent of the 3D printer for personal use has rendered a majority of my products obsolete, why bother trying to keep pace?

>> No.23584172

>>23576995
>what is Dwarves

The butt of jokes

>what is Warriors of Chaos

Bad guys. Need a "good" army.

>> No.23584535

Make several W40K films of differing genres.

Sisterhood of the Traveling Bolter- Chick Flick
Enemy at the Cadian Gate- War film
How Gork and Mork stole Orkmas- Christmas film
Three Men and a little Xeno- Family Comedy

>> No.23584561

>>23584535
Forgot to mention; these movies will be so bad people will cease to want to associate with 40K forever, and will instead opt for fantasy.

>>
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