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[ERROR] No.23444209 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

What are some easy tropes to apply to a normal historical scenario to turn it /tg/ as fuck?

>> No.23444227

History is already /tg/ as fuck.

>> No.23444250

Caligula was totally That Guy

>> No.23444255

I can't help but think that the elf girl's expression looks like she's just seen the goatse pic for the first time.

>> No.23444287

Take weather into account. Characters not only being impeded by certain sorts of extreme weather, but to occasionally take damage from it.

That'll teach 'em to stage a land invasion of Russia.

>> No.23444291


Well a really forgotten story in history was the Expulsion of Arcadia.

Basically a city of Arcadians in Nova Scotia made a deal with the English Crown that they'd remain entirely neutral in any conflict with the French. The English were okay with this until the French started kicking their shit in during the 7 Years War and demanded they break their neutrality. Of course the Arcadians said no like a bunch of bosses and then they had all their land stripped from them and were to be spread out across the British colonies to have their national identities stripped. Most of them however, well over 10,000 if memory recalls, were sent to Louisiana and became the first Cajuns. Another thousand or so however refused to accept English oppression and went into the woods and began guerilla fighting and shit.

I just remembered that today and thought, man, that could have some fun shit done to it.

>> No.23444318

Not Arcadians - ACADIANS. A lot of them also got exiled to the boondocks of Ontario too, a lot of ex-Acadians around Sudbury and Timmins area.

>> No.23444336


Ah my bad, haven't read about them for like 5 years lol.

For some reason I think this might be something good for lolvampires though. Because the crown themselves never threatened this, it was a buttmad Governor.

>> No.23444343

>Ctrl+F Arcadian
>Replace with Elf

>> No.23444369

Pretty much this.
Many Roman Emperors were.

Egyptian Pharaohs were Mary-Sues frequently.

>> No.23444383

Acadia, and it wasn't just a single city. They got kicked out of the entire area encompassing modern day Nova Scotia and New Brunswick because they didn't want to swear an oath of loyalty to the British Crown.

>> No.23444418

Can't un-see it.

Fuck you.

>> No.23444423

Identify the more notable historical figures and then apply archetypes from myth to them: the Trickster, the Fool, the Sage, the Lord Father, the Great Mother, the Hero, the Antihero, etc. Make sure to make this archetype pronounced in their character and execute it right, classical tropes kind of suck really bad when executed poorly.

>> No.23444429

Caligula was one of the few who was quite blatently open about it. What with the fucking his sister, being drunk all the time, riding his horse across a bay via a pontoon bridge to fuck with an oracle, making his horse a senator, etc..

>> No.23444486

It's funny how the senators got so butthurt over all that that he was known only as a maniac for centuries to come.

>> No.23444488


I'll just leave this here

>> No.23444503

Oh, of course. Most of the other Roman Emperors who were That Guys were more subtle about it, and Caligula certainly takes the goal and just keeps on running when it comes to essentially wearing a sign and writing it all over himself. He was good at roleplaying a Chaotic Stupid character though if anything, gotta give him that.
Also, didn't he allegedly shovel gold off the roof of the palace and have sexual relations with his horse, or am I mixing him up with another mad ruler?

>> No.23444514


You know, I'd love to see her in sexy armor sans arrows. I actually like boobplate, because I enjoy being pandered to.

>> No.23444520

That doesn't make much sense.
If you consider Russia specifically, weather did do quite a lot of damage.
How many French troops and Nazis do you think died in the snow, lost and without supplies?

>> No.23444545

You know, given that she's an Elf and this must therefore be a fantasy setting where medicine is; at the very least, more advanced than it actually was in the meieval era; she could totally survive the lower two. it would come down to whether or not the top one whent into her heart. Provided that it didn't, that would be totally survivable.
Obviously it's meant to imply that that's what happened; but A: Elf Biology, B: Crazier shit has been survived IRL.

If those were bolts she'd be totally fine.

>> No.23444566

the gold part is true, don't know about the horse, though.

>> No.23444609

The gold bit does sound like him, he loved pandering to his plebians in ways he didn't always think through.

Not sure about the horse though. It might be something the senate invented to discredit him.

>> No.23444652

It would still hurt.

>> No.23444698

History is what inspires /tg/ in the first place.

>> No.23444709

I really can't see how those arrows would be survivable. I mean, unless elves keep their organs in different places than humans do, I'd say she's got a punctured lung and probably an arrow to the heart or one of the major blood vessels nearby.

Optimism may not be justified at this point.

>> No.23444727

After the English captured Fortress Louisberg in Cape Breton and pushed the French out of Atlantic Canada, the Acadians were exiled from the region. Their options were to return to France, go to Quebec or go to Louisiana.
Most went to Quebec, and some went to Louisiana (now they're the cajuns), and some just hung around in what would later become New Brunswick. There are a fair number of places in NB that are predominantly Acadian french, which is different from Quebec french and France french in the same way that mexican Spanish is different from traditional Spanish.

They got slapped around a lot in history.

>> No.23444731

considering Elves and Humans seem to be genetically close enough to produce offspring, it's probably safe to say all the organs are in the same place.

>> No.23444736

I'm trying to respond, but "our system things you are spam."

>> No.23444772

That's why I said, "whether or not [it] went 'in' her heart."

No totally. Copious PTSD, Shock, Pain, and Stress inbound; minimum.

>> No.23444778

Pope Alexander VI, otherwise known as Rodrigo Borgia, is the ultimate fatguy.

Dude is alleged to have conducted the largest orgy in human history at the Vatican.

>> No.23444793

I don't think it went into her heart, but her left lung has at least one hole in it.

>> No.23444801

Dude, stop trying to argue that getting shot with arrows three times would not suck.
It's a lost cause.

>> No.23444824

How does, "- totally. Copious PTSD, Shock, Pain, and Stress inbound; minimum,'' translate to 'three arrows would not suck.'

>> No.23444834

I dunno if skimpy armor is really the problem here. There is certainly evidence that plate armor was not adequate protection against arrows.

But a shield is a must-have.

>> No.23444854

>/tg/ - Forensics and Paramedics
Never change, elegan/tg/entlemen.

>> No.23444869

Meh, the undead in dungeons have to come from somewhere.

>> No.23444870

Because it's really late where I live and I don't feel like thinking or reading!

>> No.23444890

Not adequate, but certainly better.
If you're going up against an archer though, you may be willing to sacrifice that slight extra for more mobility and less noise.

>> No.23444907

It's a little wonky, but the short of the long is that plate stopped the vast majority of arrows; provided that the arrow hit a plate obviously, but it's chance at that point.

>> No.23444962

Plate armor was hardly homogeneous. Some was more resistant than others. Hell, there was some plate in the 16th century that could stop gunfire.

>> No.23444980

Why can't we have Popes like that anymore?

>> No.23444989

>What are some easy tropes to apply to a normal historical scenario to turn it /tg/ as fuck

>take history
>add a tiny pinch of magic
>all of your dreams have come true

>> No.23444999

Maybe we do?
Who knows how well the Vatican may have gotten at keeping these things secret?

>> No.23445013

This is a weird thread, history is already /tg/.

>> No.23445048

Plate will stop shit arrows, good thick plate might even stop good ones, but then youre heavy as balls. And if youre a retarded catholic you might drown, looking at you Barbossa.

>> No.23445050

But the thread is derailed. It's mostly about the deadliness of that elf's wounds and awesome hedonistic popes.

>> No.23445087


Because the people that put the Pope on the Pope Throne don't want someone so blatantly in league with Satan being their direct line with God. It's not so easy to bribe your way to the Pope Throne anymore.

>> No.23445111

Just because it's possible to survive them doesn't mean that she would end up surviving them. People may have survived worse, but people also died from less. The human body is fickle.

Also, just because she is an elf in skimpy armor doesn't mean medicine is more advanced.

>> No.23445123



Even simple mail will stop everything apart the very strongest bow at shortest distance.

It would require a really, really (as in almost siege weapon) crossbow at short distance to puncture plate or an arquebuse at atleast around 100 yrds/30 m. A pistol at 100 yrds penetrates the armour but has no power left after that, so the wearer will survive (-> Zeughaus of graz experiments '88)

>> No.23445133

I see, well those wounds are probably fatal if they aren't cleaned properly and medieval popes certainly were greedy fun loving bastards.

>> No.23445158

Battle of Agincourt.

>> No.23445160

The Battle of Agincourt suggests otherwise.

>> No.23445180

Fuck you, England.

>> No.23445184

>heavy as balls

no youre not.

In fact better armours seem to be lighter, due to the high quality steel. (not that it is necessary, since even low quality plate will stop an arrow shot form a bow).

A high carbon, heat threatened full gothic set weights only 35 kg evenly distributet across the body. Feels lighter than mail wearing one.

>> No.23445185

Its like Khornes throne, but with hats!

>> No.23445212

50 Cent got shot nine times and lived. If the elf girl is gangsta enough, she will be fine.

>> No.23445217

Or we could ignore the fact that crossbows were hated by knights simply because how easy it was to kill someone with them, even while wearing armor?

Perhaps we should also ignore that longbows were one of several inventions that made wearing armor an obsolete idea?

Don't 0/10 someone when you can't even grasp the basics.

>> No.23445218

What are you going to do about it Frenchman? Enjoy no nobility.

>> No.23445295

There was a reason the pop banned crossbows for a long time.

>> No.23445299


What the fuck am I reading?

You learned that in high school?

The battle of agincourt was actually won in melee, the english winning because they were better trained at infantry tactics than the french (english men at arms being famous for fighting on foot).

Some french knights DID die from arrowfire, but there was muddy terrain so they couldn't move fast and every soldier got hit by loads of arrows. If you are being hit by 60 or more arrows, some of them WILL go into the eyeslits, into the armpits etc.

The combination of professional, heavily armoured english men at arms with longbowmen first using their bows and then joining in the melee with arming swords, mallets and bucklers won the day.
Not some plate piercing SUPAWEAPON.

>> No.23445320

You mean she'll bitch about it on stage.

>> No.23445324

that was in the 12th/13th century when mail was the only armour at hand.

Writers in the 15th century describe crossbow attacks on armoured men at arms as "as effective as a shower of rotten apples"

>> No.23445406

>Perhaps we should also ignore that longbows were one of several inventions that made wearing armor an obsolete idea?

Are you serious? This is too much!

The "longbow" is not a welsh/english/viking invention. It is the staple bow design of europe and man sized self bows are known since the neolithicum. In the middle ages they were also used a lot by the french, burgundians, scandinavians and portuguese.

The longbow was most efficiently used in the 14th century and early 15th century, then declining in use, full plate armour only appeared in the 15th century and continued to be used up to the 17th century.

The main thing that drove full plate out of the battlefields were socio-economical reasons. Since feudalism became less important, the knightly class vanished. Only a few countries could pay for fully armoured men at arms in the long term, france being the last one.

The other factor are the more and more efficient guns of the 16th and 17th century.

>> No.23445468

Wasn't mail even better at stopping arrows then plate, because the mesh "caught" the projectile, much like kevlar weave stops bullets?

By the same token, a longbow could pound an arrow through six inches of oak. Longbows were powerful motherfuckers, and so were heavy, winch-loaded crossbows.

Still, there's only so much they can do against heavy, high-quality armor.

Really, what it comes down to is, archers had to AIM. Any suit of armor has weak points; and no matter what you're attacking with - melee weapon or a bow - you had best aim for them to maximize your chances of penetration.

>> No.23445494

and who won the war?

>> No.23445513

Yes, it would suck but, if a cleric was at hand she could survive. Cast Rebuke Death & Heal

>> No.23445565


During that transitional period (when they called them "handgonnes" and "arquibe- aquar- oh fuck that spelling, you know what I mean,) men buying armor would check for the shallow dent in them where they'd been shot with a gun - that being the "quality control" test given the armor after it was made.

The reason guns started to take over from crossbows - at a point where both were ballistically similar, and both took a while to load - was that guns were cheap as fuck to build, unlike crossbows.

Of course, they kept getting more and more powerful, and then somebody invented corning, and shit got real.

>> No.23445592

Oh shit, my bad, I actually meant the Battle of Crécy wherein the English cut down the Genonese Crossbowmen who were decked out in Hauberks showing that chain ain't as great as you'd think, even muslim ambushes the crusades show the destructive power of arrows since enough of them will eventually result in a wound in the gaps or weak points in armour and will tire the man out completely in the mean time.

>> No.23445603



I think

>> No.23445614

Here's the thing, you can only aim when preforming direct fire, and even then, only within 100m at most. That that range, you better hope that you have some sort of terrain/support/fortification to slow down the enemy. Otherwise, you'd be lucky to get off more than 3 volleys before they hit you in melee.

>> No.23445619


Plate is still superior. It is much harder (mail has to be made of soft wrought iron, otherwise it can become more dangerous to the wearer) and also it is constructed in a way to deflect most blows/projectiles of the surface. This is the reason why warhammer often look like meat tenderizers; the teeth are supposed to "bite" into the plate to not glide of as easily.

>By the same token, a longbow could pound an arrow through six inches of oak.

the legend actually says 4 inches. But its just that, a legend, if never seen any prove of it nor was I even able to track down if this legend really is from period.

>> No.23445626

>Completely ignoring the fact that the French knights had to charge across a freshly plowed muddy field

>Wasn't mail even better at stopping arrows then plate, because the mesh "caught" the projectile, much like kevlar weave stops bullets?
Nooooooope. Anything but a broadhead would pierce right through most chainmail.

>> No.23445646

Considering most longbows of that period had a hundred pound drawstrength I don't doubt it that much.

>> No.23445652

>describe the origin of the term 'bullet proof'
>not use the words 'bullet proof' or 'bullet proofing'

>> No.23445663

Considering a crossbow can bury a bolt 8 inches deep or more, this is not impressive.

>> No.23445672

You could however fire far more in the same time it takes you to fire a single bolt, it's a quantity over quality deal.

>> No.23445675

Eight inches into ballistic jell sure but not eight inches into oak.

>> No.23445696

>Even simple mail will stop everything apart the very strongest bow at shortest distance.

>> No.23445704

The longbow made from English yew has a peak marginal benefit from increasing draw weight at about 130 pounds. They got up to 160 before giving up and just giving everyone guns.

>> No.23445750

I am talking about the 16th century here, were we got arquebuses and even early moschettas, fuled by corned black powder. And they were actually more expensive than the crossbows of the day.

The genoese were not covered in mail cap a pie and also didn't have access of their pavises (huge shields). And most of them were ridden down by impetuous french knights, not shot down.

Regarding the crusades;

Jean de Joinville writes about an instance of a noble being harrassed by turkish archers:

>and whilst the Turks were fleeing before him, they (who shoot as well backwards as forwards) would cover him with darts. When he had driven them out of the village, he would pick out the darts that were sticking all over him; and put on his coat-of-arms again

Odo of Deuil about King Louis VII:

>The enemy climbed after, in order to capture him, and the more distant rabble shot arrows at him. But by the will of God his armour protected him from the arrows

3rd crusade, Baha al Din:

>I saw some with from one to ten arrows sticking in them, and still advancing at their ordinary pace without leaving the ranks

>> No.23445813

It was never made of english yew. The english considered spanish yew the best, with scandinavian yew taking the second place.


also turkish bows reached similar drawweights, having slightly more power though due to their lighter, shorter (=less air resistance) arms.
They also were more accurate because the curve for required power is nonlinear; the draw gets a lot lighter towards the end, making aiming easier.

see >>23445750

>> No.23445819

>the legend actually says 4 inches. But its just that, a legend, if never seen any prove of it nor was I even able to track down if this legend really is from period.

Hardly extravagant - consider the mass of the projectile (as compared to a bullet,) lower velocity, much higher mass, still concentrated on a small area. And with a 150-pound-pull bow, you could really fuck people up... but the archer's arm would wear out much faster with a pull like that, and if you're going for brute force over rate-of-fire, then use a fucking winch-drawn crossbow already goddamn

>> No.23445839


I don't see any point of discussing legends about piercing wood regarding the penetartion of plate armour (!) if we have period sources descirbing arrows failing even against mail.

>> No.23445853

Okay, I'll just point this out now. Chainmail's main weakness is against piercing attacks. They slip between the links, breaking them apart.

>> No.23445893

Yes if you use a >2 kg halberd's spike or a really good crossbow. But not from a bow (except a top notch bow from short distance)

>> No.23445957

>fuled by corned black powder. And they were actually more expensive than the crossbows of the day.

No shit, if you've got corned powder kicking around, who the fuck wants to buy crossbows? Demand is looow. Corned powder was an order of magnitude more powerful. But yeah. By 16th/17th century, guns were in, arrows were on their way out.

>> No.23446016

Surprisingly it still was only by the 1520s-1540s that gunpowder completly outcompeted the crossbow in most european armies. They were sitll kicking around in the early 16th century.

>> No.23446029


Why do I feel that's a myth.

>> No.23446033

I'm really getting sick of this elfgirl pic, though

>> No.23446132

That's what I get for being overly specific. Must have just been yew, then.

>> No.23446172


Makes sense... for a long while there'd be a shortage of manufacturers, and add a dollop of traditionalism to that, and, well...

>> No.23446538

I know this is going to sound like a cop-out, but if you're going to cite a source from the Crusades, you're going to have to cite multiple sources confirming the same instance. Those guys were notorious for exaggerating and fluffing everything to sound like a miracle.

>> No.23446586

>implying the crusades weren't full of genuine miracles

>> No.23446993

You're right, glorious Allah did give victory in the end.

>> No.23449159

Indeed. The dark hordes did gain a foothold but, in His mercy, Allah granted victory in the end. Truly Allah is great, wise.

>> No.23450769

>made of rings of metal
>arrowhead gets into ring
>forces it apart

ALSO: Just because stops you being run through, doesn't mean you're not hurt. blunt trauma is a thing!
That's why plate is better.

>> No.23451404

>forces it apart

What heinous bullshit.

Proper mail was made of alternating links - one was a perfect circular link, forged, and the next one had a link that passed through the forged one, and was riveted shut. They weren't just bent shut, so that anything that hit them would pop them open. That's heinously dumb. This was fucking ARMOR, man. Also consider that proper mail had more then a single layer - as many as two or three or more, sometimes. An arrowhead isn't going to defeat mail by "forcing links apart" any more then a bullet defeats kevlar by "pushing between the fibers." Rather, they rob the projectile of it's strength in the same way - by "catching" it in a net-like fabric that gives rather then tries to resist.

Conversely, plate mail is like tank armor - it's face-hardened. But that's not enough, alone, it'll succumb to penetration for the very reason mail does not (the mail has "give" to it.) The solution, as >>23445619 pointed out, is sloped armor - it encourages projectiles to glance off, redirecting most of the force rather then trying to stop it head-on. This is orders of magnitude more effective then a flat plate of armor trying to stop an incoming projectile.

With all that said, a longbow could - and would - punch an arrow right through armor and kill the poor unlucky motherfucker inside. But you'd have to aim for weak points to maximize your chances, and it'll only work under 60-70 yards or so, at best, with your chances getting better the closer the range. As >>23445614 points out, there's some serious limitations to that vis-a-vis open-field combat.

tl;dr combined arms was important in the 14th century too

>> No.23452155

Also, there were purpose built arrows for dealing with chainmail and plate. And even if you manage to pierce said armour, you've also spent much of the arrows energy doing so, not to forget surely blunted the sharp tip. And beneath the armour there's heavy padding, maybe even more layers of armour.

>> No.23454401

Add Brown Elves

>> No.23454503

Add dragons. Dragons make everything better.

>> No.23454623

And never sick of goatse

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