Quantcast
[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / g / ic / jp / lit / sci / tg / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports / report a bug ] [ 4plebs / archived.moe / rbt ]

Due to resource constraints, /g/ and /tg/ will no longer be archived or available. Other archivers continue to archive these boards.Become a Patron!

/tg/ - Traditional Games


View post   

[ Toggle deleted replies ]
[ERROR] No.23436025 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Only two days until Codex Daemons is released and still no codex leak? Is no one else as excited as I am to witness the boon to come to Nurgle and all his followers?

>> No.23436047

There was a leak of the german edition translation on here a couple of days ago. I did not save it, unfortunately. maybe someone did.

>> No.23436136

German version was leaked here on /tg/, go to Faeit 212 or BoLS for summaries of it.

Let me offer a rundown:

Daemonic Gifts: Most Daemonic Gifts are changed. Merged with the "Daemon of [insert name of god]" rule, or merged with psychic powers: Daemon discipline of Tzeentch is all dakka, Nurgle is poisoned stuff, Slaanesh is debuffs.

If you buy Daemonic Gifts, you choose whether you want a 10, 20 or 30 point gift. You roll a d6 on a gift table: 10 pt table is squad bonuses and random abilities, 20 pt table is extra durability and anti-vehicle stuff, 30 pt is superpowers like being able to come back from the dead and stuff. You can always choose not to take the random gift if you don't like it, and choose from a list of weapons and artifacts instead. So you can plan your build, but then also get a few surprises along the way.

(I will continue if you want me to)

>> No.23436151

>codex

40kiddies, please grow up

>> No.23436163

>>23436047
Well atleast there is some kind of version. Honestly I was worried that they were going to spit on daemons the way things are going. Remember when everyone hated Tyranids so much that Ultramarines got those horrible Tyranic War Veterans that no one ever used as if just to say "Fuck you, Tyranids."?
Well things seem to be going that way for Daemons in the bigger and better fashion of 6th edition, what with a few of The Dark Angels special rules, or much more prevalent, the entire Daemon Hunters Codex. While I am wild about all the improvements I keep hearing, I am probably going to have to hide in a corner and cry when I get matched against a Daemon Hunters player since, supposedly, we have no protection against instead-death from their plethera of force weapons and the ever-present Daemon Bane coupled along side our (supposedly) worse invunerable saves.
But great gravy, if The Great Ones really are T8 with FNP on a 3+ and reduce the strength of incoming attacks by one I'm probably going to high-five my entire game community.

>> No.23436166

What is wrong with that Great Unclean One?

>> No.23436174

>>23436151
Get back in your own threads D&D. Trolling 70% of 40k tabletop off /tg/ the past 3 years isn't enough for you?

>> No.23436196

>>23436136
Great word! If you have time I'd love to hear more, friend!

>> No.23436360

>>23436136

Greater Daemons: These guys are buffed. They cost less, and have better statlines. Daemon Princes are HQs now, unless you take a Greater Daemon of the same god, in which case they are still Heavy Support. Greater Daemons and Daemon Princes can take up to 50 pts of Gifts each.

Bloodthirster: 3+ armor, Flying Monstrous Creature. 10 WS and BS, I9, 5 wounds, 6 attacks. Starts with his whip for short range anti-vehicle whipping, and his axe. Furious Charge, because he's Khornate. If he takes 20 pt gifts, he has a chance of getting 4+ FNP, re-roll invuln saves or +1 T IWND, depending on what he rolls. He can then swap out a random boon that he doesn't need for a Blood Blade, giving him +2 S +d3 attacks.

Lord of Change: High combat statline, but no armor. Starts out Mastery Level 2, can go up to 3. Knows Daemon Tzeentch and Divination powers. Can take a variety of gifts, both the random tables the two Tzeentch weapons(weapon that turns people into a spawn when it kills them, and a power staff that causes explosions after each kill).

Great Unclean One: Has Poisoned(4+), 7 Toughness, 6 Wounds. Daemon of Nurgle gives him Shrouded, S&P, and Defensive Grenades. Mastery Level 1, can be brought up to 3, knows Daemon Nurgle and Biomancy Powers(take Biomancy, obviously, to get him up to T10). Can take gifts as can be expected.

Keeper of Secrets: On the ground, not as high stats as Bloodthirster, still designed for combat. Daemon of Slaanesh gives extra run distance, fleet, rending. Has Preferred Enemy against Eldar and Dark Eldar. Can take gifts as usual, one of the Slaanesh weapons you can buy is an assault 2d6 shooting weapon interestingly enough, giving a shooty dynamic. Mastery Level 1, can be upgraded to 3, uses Slaanesh Daemon powers and Telepathy. Probably the worst of the four, since s/he doesn't really have anything game breaking other than massed debuffs.

>> No.23436389

>>23436136
>30 pt is superpowers like being able to come back from the dead and stuff.

W-what zombie Bloodthirsters? Anyone know what the chart is?

>> No.23436425

I say we all gather up our GK armies and swarm the nearest GW during the release.

Break their hope before it grows.

>> No.23436450

>>23436425
You're a bad person, but I like how you think.

>> No.23436467

>>23436360
Thanks man!

>> No.23436472

>>23436360

Daemon Prince: The same as in C:CSM, except you can take him as a Heavy Support if you have a Greater Daemon of the same god as an HQ(you can do this even in an allied detachment). Also, because you use the Gifts table rather than the Chaos Artifacts table, you can actually increase his survivability. And Daemon Prince of Tzeentch gets to use Ld10 to cast psychic powers!

Skarbrand: Cheaper. Very brutal melee fighter, might be worth trying now.

Fateweaver: He now knows tons and tons of psychic powers. No combat ability without being buffed, though. More wounds, never decides to fly away, gets 1 re-roll of anything each turn but doesn't provide re-rolled saves anymore.

Ku'Gath: 7 wounds, can dish out a lot of pain still.

Skulltaker: No longer super-rending, therefore no longer playable.

Epidemius: Tally only works on units from his codex, and only benefits units within 6", so he sucks now.

Blue Scribes: Not much info, doesn't have to use psychic tests to use powers apparently.

The Masque: Still not an Independent Character, her dances now can almost completely stop a unit from shooting, or from moving, or make them all take S1 hits ignoring armor and cover. Pretty brutal for 75 points.

>> No.23436503

>>23436389

exalted gifts:
1: blessed twice: roll twice again on this chart. reroll another 1. xou apply both results without further costs

2. riftbringer: at the end of close combat phase in wich the daemon caused at least 1 unsaved wound you roll 2w6 and add 1 for each 3 unasved wounds the daemon caused. is the sum is 9 or higher a new unit of daemons will be created like the warpstorm table result number 12

3 souleater: at the end of the close combat phase, if the daemon caused at least one unsaved wound you roll a d6. on a 2+ the daemon gains another lifepoint (and may go up to 10 lifepoints)

4. unholy rage : the daemon gains the special rules rampage and rage

5. warpflame. the first time this daemon is slain dont remove him from the game but take him from the table instead. the daemon may come back from reserve with 1 wound remaining.

6. winds of chaos : 24" s 2w6 ap 4 assault 1 3" explosiv. fluktuation : roll the strenght after caling the target, if its 11 or 12 its counting as s10 but is a 5" blast instead of 3"

and the 0 again:
the daemon may take a hellforged artifact of his choise from the armory.. note that these are uniqe and only once taken:
__________________________________________________________________________

>> No.23436515

>>23436503


artifacts:
eternal blade: s +1 ap - specialist weapon, honorseeker: at the beginning of the assault phase in wich the wielder is bound to roll a d3. the result will be granted to the wielders WS, initiative and attacks.

grimoire of true names: you may use it at any time in your movement phase. the target hast to be within 24" and at least one model with the special rule daemon has to be within the unit.
is the unit a enemy it has +1 on reserve rolls. is the unit a friendly unit roll a d6. on a 1-2 the all models in the unit (except the user) with the special rule daemon suffer +1 on the reserve rolls. if you roll a 3+ all models with the rule daemon have +2 on their invulnerable saves until your next turn.

portalglyph: may be used once per game. you may place it in the movement phase (does not matter when) place a 3" blast within 12" around the user. and let it scatter 4d6. if the marker goes off the board or cannot be placed it will move the distance so it can be placed (droppod) after that its a vehicle with the following profile : bs 0 12/12/12 hp 1

after placing the portalglyph you roll a d6 at the end of your movement phase. on a 4+ a new unit of d6 daemons (of your choisem horrors, daemonettes, plaguebearers or bloodletters) the unit got no upgrades but counts as a normal unit of its type.

the stone of the damned: at the beginning of the assault phase. every enemy charactermodels that are not daemons have to make a ld test. if it passes, nothing happens. if it loses. the model has -d6 on his ld value. if a model goes below 0 this way. it gets removed isntantly without saves allowed.

[this is the 30 point chart]

>> No.23436536

>>23436515
>>23436389

So yes, Zombie Bloodthirsters. Zombie Bloodthirsters that can lifesteal up to 10 wounds.

>> No.23436537

>> No.23436540

>>23436360
I'm curious, which GD would you take given the choice?
Are KoS actully usefull to some degree now unlike last edition?

>> No.23436567

>>23436503
>>23436515
>at the end of close combat phase in wich the daemon caused at least 1 unsaved wound you roll 2w6 and add 1 for each 3 unasved wounds the daemon caused. is the sum is 9 or higher a new unit of daemons will be created like the warpstorm table result number 12

Fuckkkkkkkk yeah so starting Daemons. Gonna have to buy so many dang Bloodletters though!

Captcha: immediate ragesGi

Yesss, the Khorne is strong with this one.

>> No.23436596

>>23436540

I really don't know. I'm liking them all right now. I'm considering trying Daemons out, Great Unclean One looks tanky and Lord of Change gives some flying dakka support, it's just I can already do the same thing with Swarmlord and a Flying Hive Tyrant. Bloodthirster and Keeper of Secrets look like a lot of fun right now.

Also, have another gift table. The one you will probably roll twice on for most Greater Daemon builds:

greater gits :
1: corpulence : the daemon got +1 toughness and the special rule it will not die

2. daemonic toughness the daemon got the special rule feel no pain (4+)

3. dark blessing: the daemon may reroll failed invul saves

4 hellfiregaze : 18" s 8 ap 1 assault 1 lance

5 touch of decay the close combat attacks of the daemon got armorbane and lifebane

6 unbreakable skin, the daemon gets a 3+ armor save.

and the 0 if you decide for it:

mighty magical weapon:
you gain a mighty aetherblade (s +1 ap 2 mastercrafted, specialist weapon

daemons of khorne may take a bloodblade: (s user ap 2, specialist weapon, unwieldly, bloodthirst: the wielder gains the special rule rampage
daemons of tzeentch may take the mutating warpblade (s user ap 3, specialist weapon, warpmutation: a character slain with with weapon becomes a chaos spawn on a 2+
daemons of nurgle may take pestielnce sword (s user ap - poison 4+ instand death. specialist weapon, rustbreath: every armor pen throw of 6 is automatically a glancing hit if it wouldnt be a penetrate allready)
daemons of slaanesh may take whip of despair ( 12" s user ap - assault 2w6)

>> No.23436611

>>23436515
Dude thank you so much for spending your time putting my doubts to rest. Shit looks awesome.

>> No.23436664

I was really hoping this would be a Deamons thread for WHFB...
Oh well.

>> No.23436688

>>23436664
You came to the wrong board, friend.

>> No.23436799

>>23436537
>>23436611

Note, before we go on, Eternal Warrior is gone. Daemonic Assault is gone too, but you can deep strike anything in your army if you want to, it's just an option now rather than a requirement.

Ok, on to the Heralds. You can take 4 heralds for an HQ slot, but only those 4 per FOC.

Heralds can each buy one Locus, a bonus they give their squad. These are usually powers related to the Chaos gods. Daemons of Nurgle have Shrouded instead of FNP, but they can get FNP, and 2+ poison even, if they have a couple Heralds leading them. Slaanesh Heralds can give +5 initiative or re-rolls to hit, Khorne Heralds can give Rage or Adamantium Will, and there's more than all that too. Non-Khornate Heralds can be psykers, but with generally lower mastery levels than Greater Daemons.

Basic troops are much, much cheaper, but with some reduced statlines. Horrors do their warpfire shooting attacks by combining their powers in a Ld10 Psychic Test, and then shooting a random number of shots based on the number of Horrors in the unit, as a Psychic Shooting attack coming from one model. They have the statlines of guardsmen, though. But they get attacks in even if you kill them, because of splitting into Blue Horrors.

Plaguebearers are only T4, but are 9 pts each. With Heralds to back them up, they are even deadlier than before.

Bloodletters are on T3 with 1 attack. They are 10 pt marine killers: they are an all or nothing, glass hammer unit now.

Daemonettes are mostly the same, but are dirt cheap.

Note that you aren't truly fearless: you can go to ground voluntarily AFAIK, but if you lose combat, you have to take an instability check(think 5th edition Fearless except more dangerous).

>> No.23436830

I don't know about this random wargear stuff. I know, I know, "Chaos randum lol", but why is it that mortals followers get to choose their daemonic wargear and certain traits? How is it, that a mortal can be gifted with a certain piece of daemonic weaponry from the gods personal armoury, but a daemon can not? Seeing that daemons and gods come from the same pool and any gift a daemon gets is away from someone else, you'd think the gods would really think about it before slapping random favors onto their troops. Mortals don't matter that much, since they're merely tools and playthings, and the gifts aren't there to serve them, they're there to serve the god and if they've decided tentacles eyes are what you need, then tentacle eyes is what you get.

But daemons are nor just pawns, they are part of the god. If a daemon is forever annihilated and its energy dispelled, then part of the god is gone as well. This is why the dark gods pulled their support of Horus just before the Emperor slew him, because He would have destroyed that part of their power as well along with Horus's soul. The gods won't sprinkle their power across their followers randomly like that.

Do named Greater Daemons roll for their wargear? If not, then the system is bullshit. Why do certain daemons get to keep their stuff as is, while the rest are all random? Surely there's more "trusted" GD's in the world than the few mentioned in the codex.

I know why: They're not Marines. Try to slap random daemonic wargear and gift tables on Chaos lords and GW would drown in sweaty nerd rage.

>> No.23436886

>>23436830
dude, there IS a random gift table for chaos lords... it's called the boom table, and you can either buy rolls on it for 10 points, or win challenges to do so...

>> No.23436893

>>23436886
>it's called the boom table
>boom table

I think the CSM codex would be much more interesting if it had a BOOM table.

>> No.23436921

Note that one model in each unit can usually take a minor Gift of Chaos. Units that can take banners serve as teleport homers for units of the same god, and get huge bonuses from the banners. For example, a Khornate unit can take a banner that give them 6+d6" charge range.

Elites are the weakest link in the codex, I'd say. Let's get them out of the way.

Flamers are now infantry killers, sadly. Their breath is S4 AP4, with a chance to do extra damage ignoring armor saves afterwards. The Pyrocaster can take something else, of course.

Fiends are even faster than before, thanks to the Daemon of Slaanesh running boost. They have less attacks, but reduce the Ld of nearby enemy psykers and anything in base contact with them gets -5 Initiative(i.e. so they're basically Canoptek Wraiths with lower invuln saves, more wounds AFAIK, and with psychic defense)

Bloodcrushers no longer have 3+ armor or T5, but have +1 wound and are Cavalry. So once again, Khorne is pretty weak to shooting. Be careful using these guys, they can be devastating or they might just suck.

Beasts of Nurgle are serious tanks now, 4 wounds each with IWND, so take them.

>> No.23436928

>>23436799
Well, there are some... huttles... yes, but with Biomancy or a couple lucky rolls my very beloved Great Unclean One should be immune to most things (Space Marine Librarians, Chaos Sorcerers, Grey Knights) that could instant death him. Your force weapon doesn't matter if you're Str 4 and I'm T 8.
As before, the biggest worry is the Init tests. Jaws of The World Wolf, Necron/Grey Knight Tessaract, Vortex of Doom. But fuck that I have a freeking Great Unclean One! What are they gonna do to stop it?

>> No.23436962

>>23436830

Named Greater Daemons have preset wargear. And other Greater Daemons aren't fully randomized: you roll on the table, and then you get to CHOOSE between whatever you rolled and an artifact of the same point cost.

So you can always rely on your Bloodthirster having the +2 Strength Rampage weapon if you buy a 20 point gift for him.

Also, note that only the 30 point artifacts are 1 per army, but all random boons and artifacts are 1 per model.

>> No.23436966

>>23436830
Why is my general a brilliant strategist one game, but forgets how to follow the same tactics the next game? Why can't I have the warlord trait that fits the fluff for the character I wrote and converted and painted?

Because it is easier to pretend that random bullshit is balanced than to actually put any thought or effort into making something that functions.

Oh and fuck you if you were interested in actually modelling any of those daemonic gifts. Your model will only be WYSIWYG one out of every six games.

A year ago I made jokes about random wargear in response to hearing about random warlord traits. I didn't mean to give them ideas. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry.

>> No.23436979

>>23436921
>a Khornate unit can take a banner that give them 6+d6" charge range.

Ohmahgerd that shit is cash. Bloodletters are suddenly looking attractive again if i can give them an average 9 inch charge range.

>> No.23437015

>>23436830
Most Daemons, even Greater Ones who are not solidified within the Materium, are created and destroyed by the mere thoughts of their grand Patrons. CSM are more of an army with characterization and personality, but as a Daemon Chaos Daemons player your army is as insubstatial as the Immaterium from which you come. It's kind of like... it's hard to grow attached to your squads, come up with backstories for them and give them "flavor" when they might have just been spawned from a peice of wargear, or disapear entirely on a bad instability check.
You are not permanant or substantial if you are a Daemon! If you want a measure of certainty then CSM are for you.

>> No.23437046

>>23436886
Sure, but there's also tons of stuff, even daemonic stuff like auras, weapons and steeds. No random rolling there. With daemons it seems just about everything is rolled randomly.

Imagine if your Chaos Lord would have to roll to see if he got a jump pack, terminator armour, mount, guns or CCWs, etc.?

>> No.23437058

>>23436928
Man.. Those guardsmen are in meele with Plaguebearers..
They're all fucked on an intergalactic leve.

>> No.23437126

>>23436962
Oh, that's interesting. I was wondering about that table result of "0". So it's like the primarus power on the psychic power tables, you alway have a back up (not nessissarily a great one, but one that could be reliable).
But I thought you said Greater Daemons can buy two of the lesser gifts? Or are they also limited to 1?

>> No.23437202

>>23436966
Then again, warlord traits aren't all about the warlord, but also battlefield situation. Maybe your commander can get a unit to outflank in this game because the option for it opened up, while at another time he's driven by, I dunno, his arch nemesis being on the other side or his wife's on the rag or something else, and he really just wants to punch someone in the face.

And their effects aren't that important that they'd break the game, so why bitch about the gift horse's mouth?

>> No.23437209

>>23436966

The Warlord trait thing is pretty dumb, I agree.

Fast Attack and Heavy Support are where it's at, by the way:

Screamers are virtually unchanged.

Plague Drones look pretty good, tough Jet Pack Cavalry with 3 wounds apiece.

Flesh Hounds have 2 wounds apiece, Collar of the Blood God gives them +2 to Deny the Witch.

Seekers are dirt cheap, and faster of course(because Slaanesh).

Burning Chariot of Tzeentch has a S5 AP3 Torrent flamer and an anti-vehicle weapon. It's only like, 100 points.

Khorne Chariot is sturdy, but you can also build it as a Skull Cannon: if anything is tagged by its pie plate, you charge it this turn as if with Assault Grenades.

Soul Grinder can Skyfire now.

>> No.23437233

>>23436928

Great Unclean One isn't likely to die to Jaws, and other units cost little.

GUO has I4 and is a monstrous creature, so only 1/6 chance that jaws kills it. On top of that, it's got 4+ Deny the Witch save against all rune priests and Njal if you give it at least mastery level 2, and 5+ or 4+ (against ML1 rule priests) base.

>> No.23437249

>>23437126

Yes, it's like the Primaris Power, except it gives you access to an armory instead of giving you a (sometimes weak) backup spell.

You can buy two of a certain point class of gift, yes, as far as I know. You just can't have two of the same one on the same model. After all, the codex entry is always "up to X points of gifts".

>> No.23437386

>>23437249
Last question for you, sir, are the psychic power tables for the gods the same as the ones in Codex: CSM?

>> No.23437415

>>23437202
>warlord traits aren't all about the warlord, but also battlefield situation
This is a great point. If only it was fluffed this way to begin with. I'll start trying to think of it this way I guess, but I still feel like we're apologizing for them by refluffing it.

>And their effects aren't that important that they'd break the game, so why bitch about the gift horse's mouth?
Because it's a missed opportunity to add more character to... er... characters. It hurts us fluff bunnies just as much as more competitive folks and it's a missed opportunity to make the list design phase way more interesting.

I dunno. "It's free" is an insufficient excuse for "it was lazily executed" in my humble opinion. I always get a little bitter when there's a blatantly missed opportunity to add real depth to the game. Warlord traits, and now not being able to model the majority of daemonic boons, fit into that category. There's still lots of fluffy and/or competitive stuff to be done, but not as much as there could have been, and that is a shame no matter how you slice it.

>> No.23437512

>>23437386

No. They're much less derpy, much more focused around a particular style of play.

psychic powers of tzeentch:
primary:
24" s 5 ap 4 assault 2w6, warpflames, soulfire. 1 warpcharge. for each additional warpcharge you gain a additional d6

1-2 24" S d6 +1 assault 1 3" explosive, warpflames
3-4 24" beam s d6+4 ap 2 assault 1 warpflames
5-6 witchfire: 18" s d6+4 ap 1 assault 1 explosive 3" warpflames.
__________________________________________________________________________

psychic powers of nurgle:
primary:
witchfire : flame s - ap 3 assault 1 poison 4+

1-2 witchfire, 12" s 1 ap 2 assault 1 5" blast 4+ poison.
3-4 blessing, the psyker gains at the beginning of each assault phase a d3. all enemys in base contact have the score reduced on their WS and initiative
5-6 nova: every enemy within 12" has to do a toughness test or suffer a wound without armor or coversaves allowed. if the unit loses a model it has to do another toughness check and so on and so on.
__________________________________________________________________________

slaanesh psychic powers:
primary : beam ; 24" s 6 ap - rending assault 1

1-2 malediction, a enemy within 18" has -5 initiative and can not use the special rule counter attack nor can it overwatch
3-4 24" focused witchfire. enemy has to do a leaderchip tests or takes a wound without armor or coversaves allowed. if the model dies you nominate another random model in the unit. and so on and so on....
5-6 : nova : 12" every enemy has to roll 2w6 on and take the ld of the result. for every point remaining on this roll the unit suffers a wound without armor or cover saves allowed. after that the units have to do a pinning test.

Note: "Warpflames" mean that units tagged by Tzeentch powers get mutated, they must take a Toughness test: if they pass, they get permanent +1 FNP, if they fail, they take d3 wounds, no armor or cover.

>> No.23437546

>>23437512

Note that this was translated from German, so that's why some of the stuff is weirdly worded.

>> No.23437555

>>23437512
Much better than I though!
And someone else just brought me another good question:
"Are psychic powers handled like they are in the CSM Codex, where the Psyker is required to take at least one roll on his power's chart"?

>> No.23437619

>>23437555

Not sure, honestly. I wouldn't be surprised.

>> No.23437698

>>23437619
Thanks man.

>> No.23437849

>>23437698
>Deamons getting more stuff and a new codex
>Tau and Elder will (eventually) get more stuff and a new codex
>But no words on Dorfs or 'Nids
Being a Dwarf player is suffering, even more so than being a Tyranid player.

>> No.23437900

>>23437849

There is word on Tyranids, just showed up today on Faeit 212.

Tau, Eldar and Orks get codexes first, but then Tyranids are next.

A typical "new monstrous creature with psychic powers" will be added to the codex, and Carnifexes apparently will be made good again.

>> No.23437922

>>23437900
Neat. any word on whos writing it, or should I just expect Cruddance again?

>> No.23437923

>>23437849
Good news, brother.
Typing in more words so the system won't think this is spam.
Well I still can't link so here:
A Tyranid codex is being worked on, and it looks like it will be sometime next year at the earliest. This does not mean that there will not be any updates for our favorite bugs before hand, but that a codex is at least a sometime around a year+ away.


Please remember that these are rumors. Salt is always required.

via an anonymous source (that must remain so for obvious reasons) from the Faeit 212 inbox
*Tyranids are coming. Probably after Orks sometime next year.
*Carnifexes are getting a big boost
*Deepstriking emplacements for shooting and increasing synapse ranges
*A new Spider-like Pysker Monstrous Creature
*Background being expanded with some sort of connection between the old ones and C'tan being worked on.

>> No.23437961

>>23437900
>>23437923
Kinda frustrated no new Eldar, even though I don't play them, because it's one of (if not THE) oldest codex still in play. Though they did get a buff with the new core rulebook.
And still no Black Templar, who went from decent to laughably underpowered with the release of the Blood Angels, and also is one of the oldest codex still in play (second to Eldar I believe).
But screw it, my Great Unclean One is gonna roll face!

>> No.23437969

>>23437209
>Plague Drones look pretty good, tough Jet Pack Cavalry with 3 wounds apiece.

Guess I found why my many Bloodcrushers are going to be stand ins for.
Anything to escape that they currently are.
If GW does not give a flying fox, why should I?

>> No.23437972

>>23437923
I like how that sounds! Now, I play the waiting game...

>> No.23437984

>>23437969

Yeah, I think that's the deal, that Plague Drones play the role the Bloodcrushers did in the previous codex.

>> No.23438263

>>23437961

Both black Templar and Tau are older than the Eldar codex. BT being the oldest.

>> No.23438280

Any juicy new fluff for us fluff bunnies?

>> No.23438324

>>23437984

Beasts of Nurgle can do also, if you want to use FA for something else than drones, as the Beasts occupy the elite slot with crushers.

10 points more than drones base cost, beasts instead of jet pack cavalry, but +1W, It Will Not Die, d6+1 attacks (average 4.5) instead of 3, and can charge in opponent's phase.

>> No.23438327

>>23437058
No, Plaugebearers suck at close combat.

>> No.23438373

>>23437923
>*Background being expanded with some sort of connection between the old ones and C'tan being worked on.

No, no, no, no, no. Leave their background vague and mysterious, please.

Fortunately, stuff posted on Faeit's blog this far from release always turns out to be mistaken or lies anyway.[/spoilers]

>> No.23438377

>>23437849
Nids have a 5e codex, faget.

>> No.23438387

>>23438327

Not against guardsmen, wound on 3+ with reroll and get wounded on 5+ in return.

>> No.23438392

>>23438327
Actually, their CC prowess got a bit of a buff in the new Codex. Their strength got hiked up to 4.

>> No.23438437

>>23438373
The Necron Codex started the whole thing when it said that the Old Ones and C'tan has some sort of history with each other. That the Old Ones persecuted the C'tan or something like that.

Aren't you curious?

>> No.23438444

>>23438387
>I2
>A1
>No FnP
>Twice as expensive

Enjoy chocking on conscript dick.

>> No.23438472

>>23438377

Nids would be better off right now with their 4e codex.

Right now, the only thing keeping them going is the 6e Core Rules. All their stuff is garbage for their point costs except for a couple units.

It's like they took Tyranids in early 5th edition, and said "this army is pretty good, it's getting annoying, how about we take away literally everything that they had, take away all their options, nerf everything that was good, and then trick the players into buying our fancy new models that still won't be good until 6th edition in two more years."

>> No.23438479

>>23438437
Unless I'm mistaken, it says the C'tan claimed the Old Ones had persecuted them. I'm quite happy to put that down to the C'tan being a bunch of lying shitbags who told the Necrontyr exactly what they wanted to hear.

>> No.23438493

>>23438324
I was really liking what I saw until "can charge in opponent's phase"
Now I'm pretty sure they're a must have for me.
If I'm not mistaken aren't the Bloat Flies more shooty than CC?

>> No.23438504

>>23438437
I always liked the Oldcrons fluff; The C'tan being at the same level, or even far more powerful than the old ones always intrigued me.

>> No.23438534

>>23438493
The Plague Drones? Nah, they don't have any guns at all, IIRC. They look really good for quickly getting Icons downtable to summon reinforcements though.

>> No.23438580

>>23438444

Plaguebearers don't lose to conscripts in CC. Both A1, PB attacks do 3.56 times more damage to conscripts than conscript attacks to PB's.

>> No.23438596

>>23438534
I'll remember that.
This turned out to be a great thread everyone.

>> No.23438622

>>23438479

I'd lose my sides if we got a Wardex for nids with fluff like "Old Ones were the real bad guys and bullied the C'tan into the margins of the galaxy, then created a Tyranid swarm and sent it to eat worlds in other galaxies to prevent a competitor species from ever evolving".

>> No.23438628

>>23438580
I think he was more of saying he's going to counter your grindstone unit with another, less expensive grindstone unit.

>> No.23438643

>>23438437
No, C'tan and Old Ones should stop ruining the fluff and beat it.

>> No.23438655

>>23438580
No, you lose tactically if you get into combat with Conscripts. Then again almost anything does (barring grots)

>> No.23438704

>>23438643
The C'tan I understand, but the Old Ones?

Aren't these guys an established and cornerstone element in both Fantasy and 40K? They weren't shoehorned in setting.

>> No.23438734

>>23438704
They were in the setting, but they didn't invent every species ever. They're almost as bad as the C'tan.

>> No.23438751

>>23438622
If I'm not mistaken the current, cutting edge of fluff for the nid is an "ancient beyond all reconning" race from anothr galaxy bent on annihilating (surprise surprise) chaos, because with your flesh's acceptence into the Hive you lose the emotion (and spark of your soul?) which fuels the Dark Gods, while perserving life.
Though this kinda strikes me as bulldozing a flaming house to put out the fire, it certainly has proven much more effective than the valient Grey Knight approach, which for all their power has been equated, even in their codex, to spraying the inferno with your guarden hose at half pressure.
Of course all this leniency to the Grim Darkness is countered by the overpowered fluff of all that is Space Marine within the context of the fluff, but that's another thing altogether.

>> No.23438775

>>23438751
>cutting edge of fluff for the nid is
>bent on annihilating (surprise surprise) chaos

Nope.

>> No.23438799

>>23436567

>GW creates rules that forces you to buy even more models

so nice of them

>> No.23438801

>>23438751
Nope. There has never been a big motivation for the Tyranids beyond the desire to consume, reproduce, and survive.

>> No.23438811

>>23438655
You know what else loses to conscripts?
Old Chaos spawn.
Actually, new Chaos spawn, laughably.
Atleast now Chaos spawn are a reliably FAST grindstone unit then half slow half fast and all terrible.

>> No.23438879

>>23437415
>apologizing

Seeing that I haven't read half the rules in the book more than skim their effects, I don't even know the "official" explanation. I just assumed this was it. Like how "removed as casualty" can mean anything from getting blown to bits to going crazy and hiding under a rock (aka. not taking part in the fight no more), warlord traits are just what the warlord has managed to scrape together out of the situation.

I guess I've just seen more than enough GW dickery over the editions to get too worked up about stuff. I mean, it's just a fun little thing that can help your army or not, and it doesn't cost you. Though I do think the "highest Ld. model" is a little BS. Far too often my warlord is not the general sitting in his chimera ordering artillery barrages and passing commands, but a lord commissar in a trench, shooting conscripts or ogryns in the back for failing to die for the Emperor.

>> No.23438986

>>23438801
That's because they're just stupid machines, weapons of war. We're yet to meet the puppeteer pulling their strings, their creators and manipulators.

They will come, stroking their white rippers and whirling their upper lip dendrites, while dining their enemies and telling them how much they're gonna destroy you and your puny galaxy with their awesome creations.

>> No.23439022

>>23438801
Yeah, this was from one of the same kind of official Games Workshop writers who had the Emperor stop time so an Inquisitor could sneak into his throne room to have a chat with him about diddly dribble.
If I remember right the context was some inquisitor talking to/mind probing some high-up in a genestealer cult about what exactly the Hive Mind was while he was trying to signal the fleet or whatever. The other thing I read were they were just "another generic race" from another galaxy, who used biological based technology and over the countless millenia of their migration merged into their ships.
But I like that because it maintains the general ambiguousness of the fluff and allows you to believe what you want instead constant direct reconns that GW doeswith my precious Lementers: "Created to rid the Blood Angels of the Black Rage, but beset with terrible luck" to "What? Oh no they do have the Black Rage, lol."

>> No.23439036

Can a Khorne/Nurgle army be competitive? What would it look like? Can HQ Daemon Princes work?

>> No.23439078

>>23437512
The Nurgle spells are retardedly awesome. Hello new CSM allies.

>> No.23439090

>>23439022
How unlucky for them.

>> No.23439093

>>23439022
If Lamenters were so precious to you you'd enjoy the fact that their bad luck sees them contracting the Black rage anyway.

>> No.23439128

>>23439036
Double Bloodthirsters is pretty much always considered competative with the advent of Flying Monsterous Creatures. Just watch those grounding tests and landing in front of plasma double tap. I have ran a Nurgle only list based more and more on stacking Monsterous Creatures (not all flying, mind you) that has tied first, won, and won me the last tournements I've used it in.

>> No.23439199

>>23439128

Here's the thing, Bloodthirsters can now be made resistant to plasma. If you roll on the 20 pt gift table(which is always safe to do, since the 20 pt Khorne weapon gives +2S +d3 attacks), you can potentially get:

1. +1 Toughness, It Will Not Die
2. Feel No Pain(4+)
3. Re-roll failed Invulnerable Saves

So resist the temptation to take the Eternal Blade artifact, just take 2 Greater Gifts so statistically you will likely roll a powerful defensive boost each game for your Bloodthirster.

>> No.23439299

>>23439093
No one wins when Matt Ward writes about a faction you like. Not even the people who dislike your faction.

>> No.23439327

>>23438622
GOLD!
You're really MW, trying to beta-test ideas, aren't you?

>> No.23439347

>>23439199
Quite true, but massed plasma fire is just about the most dangerous thing a Monsterous Creature can encounter. You'll always be facing more shots wound-potential than from an comperable anti-tank squad. I'd just about always rather have 4 lascannons shot at me than 8 plasma rifles.
So while you can fly up your monster to those plasma lines to charge them next round, in my experiance it is almost always better to wait another round to have backup to distract and draw fire or charge it with another unit first to neutralize its firepower.

>> No.23439357

>>23439299
>Hating Ward
>2013

Come back when you get your big boy pants.

>> No.23439381

Are there any other Heavy slot models that have not been released yet? Or is that seriously it for Heavy choices for this codex?

>> No.23439398

>>23439357
Oh, you.

>> No.23439399

>>23439357
People with big boy pants don't play 40k.

>> No.23439479

>>23439357
>still sucking ward dick
>2013

That's out of style now to now. Just so you know.

>> No.23439496

>>23439381
>>23439381
>>23439381
>>23439381

>> No.23439518

I don't suppose we can all just agree to have different opinions about the codex writers?
Also, I'm running out of images with any contextual tie-in.

>> No.23439548

>>23439479
Yeah now we're on to just being sad and bitter about everyone. Even Kelly.

What ever happened to Space McQuirk?

>> No.23439557

>>23439518
The only thing any logical, intelligent human being can agree on, is that all three of them are terrible at their job. And what's worse, their boss (Jervis) isn't much better.

>> No.23439626

>>23439557
Games Workshop has on occasion struck me as a buisness that makes bad buisness moves.
But it doesn't.
It just makes decisions that enrage it's playerbase.
Removing tournament support to encourage "the modeling aspect of the hobby"?!
ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME RIGHT NOW?
But of course I keep playing, and going to tournements with worse prizes trying to win ever more expensive models instead of purchasing them painting them with the same fucking paints that apparently all changed names while I was at sea for seven months so I'm never fucking sure if I bought the right color or not but I think the point I'm really trying to make here good gravy I really hate Games Workshop.
I really do.
But I do throughly enjoy playing 40K.

>> No.23439835

>>23439357
>not being allowed to hate Ward when he fucks with you
>013.M3

I'm all for his rules, Codex: Space Marines is one of my favorites, but his fluff either fucks shit up or is pretty ridiculous.

>> No.23440151

>>23437555

I asked this question before and the dude posting the leaks said you were (so a LoC would need a roll on the Tzeentch table before he could take a Divination spell, for example).

>> No.23440305

>>23438628
>>23438655

I don't think that's an issue with the new PBs. Now that they're so much cheaper, the conscript unit will likely be more expensive than the PB unit. If the PB unit has a Herald or even a champion with a decent weapon they can likely just challenge and eventually kill the commissar.

Or you can just shrug, say fuck it, and charge the unit with daemonettes+herald with the re-rolls power and some sort of nice weapon, have the herald challenge the commissar (since the re-roll to hit power seems to let you pick who accepts your challenges) and then slaughter and run down the unit with very few problems, especially since 'nettes are as durable as the PBs with a lot more close combat ability when fighting against conscripts.

>> No.23440639

>>23436688

Nah, we talk about WHFB. Occasionally.

>> No.23440783

>>23440151
Good to know. Thanks man.

>> No.23440817

Do they sell prepainted armies?
I am being pessimistic about this.

>> No.23440895

Easily the worst thing in the codex once you break it down is the lack of anti-flyer...

Soul Grinders may have skyfire, but it's on a BS3 model and a S7 AP4 weapon.. You're not going to kill those AV12 flyers with that shit. Also, for some reason every single FMC is absurdly low strength so you can't vector strike. I'm not really sure how this army would deal with air other than getting an aegis defense line like all the old codices.. Definitely the most disappointing part of the codex.

But, in addition to that, screamers/flamers/bloodcrushers are all pretty nerfed. I think only like 1 HQ has EW, so GK is going to be ultra hard to play against.

Trying to look at the positives, but I'm not sure about daemons as a primary if you want a really competitive army to compete with GK and Crons. Don't see it.

>> No.23440910

>>23440817
Fuck this every fucking thread. No one wants to help me out but tophatcat.

>> No.23440964

>>23437923
Oh fuck, Ward is writing Tyranids. RIP

>> No.23441100

>>23439022
Actually a Zoat lied to the Imperial Fists about the Tyranid Overmind[sic] opposing Chaos so it could get onto the Phalanx. As soon as Biff (RIP) called it out on lying, it attacked them. It also lied about the Lamenters allying with the Tyranids.

>> No.23442313

>>23441100
If by 'they' you mean GW, then no. But you can buy pre painted armies on ebay, or pay for someone to paint it on commission. Google 'commission painting miniatures' or something and have a look at prices. it can get expensive but if you're set on not painting anything then it might be an option.

Really though, you should give painting a try. It's not as hard as it seems to learn, and it's hugely rewarding to progress, and look at a completed squad or army and know that it's all your own work.
Don't give up!

>> No.23442738

>>23442313
was obviously meant for
>>23440817

Also, >>23440910
try waiting more than 8 minutes for a reply.

>> No.23442854

>>23440895
what got nerfed about screamers?

>> No.23442860

What has the cheapest non swarm troops?

>> No.23443075

I'll eagerly await a scan for the WHFB book.

Because fuck you, WHFB is popular as ever in my area.

>> No.23443737

>>23440895
Slaede is that you?

>> No.23444633

>>23442854

They can only get AP2 by dropping to one attack.

And no I don't go by Slaede.

>> No.23444675

But just think about it... How are you going to kill AV 12 flyers at all... Fuck it doesn't even matter that much that they gave the Soul Grinder's weapon skyfire..

At BS3 you hit 1.5 times instead of 1.. Granted, it's still a great weapon and soul grinders are nothing to laugh at... I think I'm just pissed off Kelly didn't give the FMCs reasonable strength, deliberately so you can't vector strike precious flyer armies.

>> No.23445000

>>23444675

Newsflash: All flyer armies are bad

>> No.23446416

>>23444675

I mean ones that have 3 or something.. They're going to destroy your FMCs who can't do shit back to them.

>> No.23449699

bump for scans of both daemon books

>> No.23449700

Soooo...any scan of either book?

>> No.23449761

>>23446416

Nah, Vendettas and ravens are clumsy and Loc/fatey can outmaneuver them.

Also vendetta vs Fateweaver without divination or book +2 matward save buff does 0.78 wounds. He's got 5.

If he gets the book buff, rerollable 2++ and doesn't care about 9 vendettas.

Heldrake cannot into anti-air.

>> No.23451290

>>23449761
Not to mention if FW gets into the rear armor of the Vendets and drops all his charges on a 6d6 s5 blast he's got a pretty good shot to start glancing things down...

>> No.23451330

>>23451290
Blasts can't hit flyers bro.

>> No.23451359

>>23451330
Not a literal blast bro. Read the psychic powers.

>> No.23451372

>>23449700
I come bearing gifts! http://uma-musado.com/Warhammer/40k/Leakages/

>> No.23451403

>>23451359
O-oh.

>> No.23451411

>>23451372
Maximum based.

>> No.23451538

>>23449700
IF there still isn't one up by tomorrow night I'll have at least pictures of the rules and point cost sections in English. If someone wants to make a PDF out of the pictures they will be more than welcome to.

>> No.23451615

>>23451372
My spine is twisted 90 degrees but not a care!

Thank you based anon, you are my greatest ally!

>> No.23451899

>>23451372
Not.. That I'm saying it's unfluffy (By the way anon, may your dick be pleasured for this) But the Warp Storm table really seem to punish multi god armies or is it just me?

>> No.23452166

>>23451899
yes and no

multi god armies are more likely to have a negative effect befall them, however for a mono gaurd army there is one result which is especially bad for them.

>> No.23452626

>>23437512
On Slaanesh powers
Initiative 4-5=0. I0=worse than Unwieldy. I0 does not kill you or prevent you from attacking.
Why are the slaanesh leadership checks not on 3d6? I'm sick of my dude killing himself in combat against necrons, I want them to feel the pain of 3d6 leadership tests to not kill themselves in combat.

>> No.23454109

I-is Burning Chariot of Tzeentch going to be rape trains?

>> No.23454240

>>23454109
AV10 all round, Fast, Open-topped Skimmer. Able to fire a St5 Ap3 torrent flamer or a D3 shot, 18" Lascannon each turn. They look useful, especially for baking squads of MEQ infantry, but they're fragile enough that I don't think they're going to be obscenely powerful.

>> No.23454288

>>23454240
Oh yeah, I guess I overlooked how fragile it is. Could try and deep strike it near something you want to die. It's cheap enough to throw away... maybe.

>> No.23454356

>>23454288

Possibly. I don't think it's destructive enough to use as suicide drop, though. Especially for 100 points, you really want to be sure you'll get the kill. The flamer template will kill most of an MEQ squad but isn't likely to get all of it, and two st9 shots isn't really a guaranteed kill on any vehicle tougher than a transport.

>> No.23454611

Anyone care to confirm if Daemon ICs are able to join Chaos Space Marine units?

It looks like Daemonic Instability only prevents a non-Daemons from joining Daemons.

>> No.23456150

>>23454611

There's a separate entry later that says Daemons can only ever join units entirely composed of Daemons of the same alignment.

Basically the only loophole possible is Marked "Daemon" units from CSM, like Warp Talons or Obliterators. They're technically Daemons and technically of the same alignment.

It's also technically useless at that point.

>> No.23456171

CAN WE HAVE INFORMATIONS ON THE FLUFF?

>> No.23456461

wait. if witstealer sword is slaneshi only and all daemons of slaneesh are rending. what's the point of the sword being rending? does it stack somehow?

>> No.23457604

>>23456171
From what little I could gather, Chaos is starting to get desperate.

From the Necrons being almost completely awake and being immune to Chaos Corruption, to the Tyranids being ridiculously close to the eye of terror, and the Imperium gaining a lot of terrain and delivering devastating blows to the immaterium, Chaos has decided to stop fucking around and actually care about it's battles.

The gods have decreed that some battles should be won at all costs, and have, therefore, increased the stability and intelligence of it's forces. Recent imperial reports point out at Chaos being much more organized and scarily competent in it's strikes, stories of demonettes ignoring crippled prey and nurglings focusing their diseases on the army rather than the whole environment are becoming startingly common, and it has become harder to depend on their instability to win.

Abaddon has garnered quite a bit of attention from the ruinous powers, not all of it good. Apparently, they have tried to ascend him to princehood or sometimes just spawn him, but he refuses and resists the transformations, somehow. Not only that, but his Undivided philosophy is starting to create another anomaly in Chaos itself, which they can't explain. It could either be a new god, or the gods are starting to fuse into a single being.

Tzentch has become more active than ever, his demons spread and appearing in obscure places of the Imperium, looking for something and running away as soon as they are seen.

Khorne is stronger than ever, the war is slowly reaching it's peak. It's been said that Khorne is becoming so strong it's actually starting to affect everyone in the Imperium.

Nurgle and Slaanesh remain the same, only difference is taking the war more seriously and slaanesh losing it's patience with the Eldar, starting to get more aggressive.

>> No.23457658

>>23457604
Oh, and Fabius is working on a way to materialize all demons permanently.

>> No.23457910

>>23457604
>Khorne's influence is affecting the Imperium.

You can tell from all the skulls.

>> No.23457978

>>23456461
Same reason flamer champion has +1BS, even though flamers only have that retardedly dumbed down AP4 flamer now - designers are stupid and can't be arsed to put effort into the rules they make.

>> No.23458147

>>23457604

>> No.23458285

>>23457604
Hey, it's all very cool. Especially the bit about Abaddon, it finally makes him sound influential and cool.

>> No.23458351

>>23457604
Mind you, the new codex has added a possible corruption in the Grey Knights.

>> No.23458365

>>23458351
A jab at Mr. Ward, perchance?

>> No.23458399

>>23458365
The Changeling not only walked right up to Brother-Captain Stern and fooled him a with a disguise, but got a newer recruit to question their methods.

>> No.23458415

>>23458399
Oh, that wacky fellow!

>> No.23458434

>>23457658
Why Fabius? He's a doctor, not a sorcerer! And wasn't his super-special secret plan cloning the Emperor?

>> No.23458445

>>23458415
He's a herald now, you know.

>> No.23458453

>>23458434
He has dozens of super-plans. And it's always been clear that he is generally an occultist, not specifically a medical doctor. IIRC, it's him who designed the daemonculabae.

>> No.23458471

>>23458434
Probably a retcon.

I'd like to think he plans on using the few clones he created, the faulty but still capable of holding large amounts of warp energy, to transfer demons into suitable bodies.

I guess they want to actually go the "possessed emperor clones" route.

>> No.23458508

>>23458434
That, and replacing mankind with his "Homo Novus", and preventing astartes genome from mutating, and converting tyranids to Chaos, and a bunch of other stuff. He apparently designed the Obliterator curse (no, it's not an actual virus, it's a contagious magical phenomenon) and found even more selective, harsher ways of recruiting and creating marines.

>> No.23458523

>>23458434
I don't remember anything about that, only that he wanted to create his own primarchs.

>> No.23458543

>>23458508
Man, what isn't Fabius doing?

>> No.23458598

>>23458543
He's easily the most proficient Chaos character, it's a shame that Kelly only copy/pasted his 3rd ed fluff in his codex entry. Lazy asshole.

>> No.23458686

>>23457604

I actually really like this.

>> No.23458805

>>23458508

Homo Novus?

>> No.23458857

>>23458598
Ahriman's up there as well, really.

>> No.23458945

So....what are the chances of us actually approaching an end-game?

As in, the final war to end all wars? And if that were to happen, how could we continue the storyline and keep most armies intact?

Which armies would you like to see die?

>> No.23458971

>>23458945

I doubt it. We'll just keep getting closer to the end.

>> No.23458977

>>23458945
I'd like to see the Imprium break into factions. Imperial Guard, Space Marines, Sisters all different factions taking pieces of the old Empire.

>> No.23458986

>>23458945
Not even close to the end.

We got recorded from a century into 42K. So the galaxy didn't end on 999 40K.

>> No.23458993

>>23458986
recorded history*

>> No.23458995

>>23458986

If anything, it kinda sounds like the Tyranids got their asses kicked.

>> No.23459018

>>23458995
Their scouts did, you can thank the Necrons for that.

No telling what would happen if the real hive got close.

Which makes me wonder, how long until they arrive?

>> No.23459020

>>23458995
999 41K*

Should really proof read

Anyways, yeah Leviathan might have been stopped . However it could also mean Abaddon failed his 13 Crusade too.

>> No.23459087

>>23458945

The only factions that we can reliably see fall apart are the Imperium, Tau and Craftworld Eldar. The likelihood of this happening is so insignificant that the only way I could see it is if GW goes bankrupt and sells 40k to another company. Even then, they would be too afraid to touch anything about the fluff for fear of angering the core audience they would need to appease. Only way I can see any significant changes happen is in the second edition of a non-GW 40k game.

Though honestly, I would love a book about making an empire from the fragmented remains of the Imperium and getting a unit selection based on how its organized. Also for the forces of Chaos to finally change into something fundamentally different from evil versions of humans. More unique gear and units that are entirely unique to their faction instead of being based on Imperial molds. While we're talking pipe dreams, I'd love for some cataclysmic event to force the Eldar to completely reorganize and make a resurgence. Every faction gets a win condition. Eldars' is that they all die to make their god that kicks only one of the Chaos Gods' asses. They need a little something.

>> No.23459089

>>23459018
>Their scouts did, you can thank the Ultramarines for that.

The Necrons didn't mobilize much against the nids.

The Ultras broke the back of Behemoth and Kraken. Leviathan defeat might have been delivered by the brave Ork Boyz in Octavius.

>> No.23459101

>>23458945

Interesting question. I think that if it came to total war, Eldar, Tau, and the Imperium would likely form a permanent truce in order to survive. Necrons probably don't really care too much about the war so they probably wouldn't get too involved beyond what they're already doing. Chaos would likely essentially work as several black crusades. As powerful as those are, they are beatable. Orks are already going at it the best they can. For tyranids, it would probably have them bringing in their main fleets (though all things considered it was around 8K-10K years between when the first scouting fleets hit the galaxy to their first vanguard fleets so it could be another several thousand years before the actual main fleets hit), DE will likely continue their raids (and probably be ignored), so... I guess the final scenario would involve the destruction of the traitor fleets, orks gaining ground before likely losing it to the power of the combined eldar, tau, and imperial forces (especially with a vastly reduced, though obviously not completely gone, chaos threat), DE being DE as usual, Necrons probably evening out for a while, or possibly losing significant numbers of worlds, and then suddenly the main fleets coming in and likely forcing a BA/Cron style truce between the necrons, Imperials, Eldar, and Tau so they can try to fight it. Meanwhile chaos will be undermining their efforts, Orks will be doing whatever the fuck they feel like, most necrons will be twirling mustaches, and DE will be raiding people.

To be honest I guess it;s not too different from right now other than maybe a diminished chaos threat. Other than Chaos and nids most races don't really have an endgame scenario, and at the moment the Imperium can likely deal with Chaos', though they might require some help.

>> No.23459204

>>23459087

Every race has a win condition, but I don't feel that most races have a very viable one. Eldar, of course, have the race dying and murdering chaos. Theirs is viable. Nids have the main fleets appearing and eating everything. Also viable. For orks, it's unification for a giant waugh. Not really viable considering how spread out they are, lacck of communication, etc. Chaos can potentially do an all out assault with all of their force simultaneously throughout the galaxy, but as devastating as that would be, I believe it's beatable (likely one of the hundreds of reasons why it hasn't been done yet), though then again if done at the right time it could possibly succeed. DE have no endgame. Necrons have the resurgence of the Necron Empire, but considering their damage and stuff I don't think it's really possible for them to return to their glory days. The Imperium has killing all xenos, heretics, and traitors. We already see how well they're doing that, so... not viable. For Tau, it's having everyone join the greater good or be destroyed. Another nonviable.

So really, most races have impossible endgames and I would argue that only Chaos, Eldar, and Nids have ones that have any real chance of succeeding without at least allying with other races.

>> No.23459249

>>23459204
I'd say the Orks have already reached their end game. Fighting forever. If they 'won' they'd have no one but themselves to fight. Which is completely fine for them, but I suspect that they would rather fight Humans or Eldar or Necrons.

>> No.23459341

>>23459101
>>23459087
They could have an end-game scenario where everyone loses lots of their powers and the playing field is reduced to warbands fighting for whatever scraps of the universe are left.

Tau, Imperium and Eldar, and for that matter Chaos, Orks and DE would break their backs fighting against the Tyranids, but would somehow manage to destroy most of the hive, drastically reducing it's numbers.

The Imperium becomes fragmented as the Emperor dies, some still being loyal to the Emperor, who they believe will deliver them from the crisis, the Imperial Guard and normal humans who simply give up on him and try to survive on their own, and the Astartes, who renounce their loyalty towards him and focus on internal chapter matters.

Tau are hit hard, but survive, become the strongest race as it unifies many alien races under a single flag, including defectors from other armies.

The massive loss of life in the galaxy greatly weakens chaos, it becomes almost impossible to materialize a demon at all. All that remains are heretics who can only summon lesser demons at most, and chaos space marines who lose a lot of their influence and power. They are still prone to mutation and can use some warp powers, but those are now harder to come by.

With the Warp's weakening, the Eldar can now live in relative calm. Their numbers drop extremely low, but they now reproduce at a higher rate and a new generation of Eldar are taking over, an energetic but still naive and lost one. The same applies to the Dark Eldar.

With the destruction of most of the hive fleet, and all the biomass they consumed, the Tyranids are in a precarious situation as well. All that stored biomass was completely lost, and what remains of the galaxy doesn't have enough to replenish their numbers. They are more fragmented than ever, and some broods are starting to wonder where the voice is.

>> No.23459347

>>23459204

Well Tau endgame is technically them teching up enough to make complete galactic dominion viable, a longshot, but possible, and Imperium endgame isn't really clear, potentially revolving around the emperor finally dying. Its more complex than you're giving it credit for though.
DE really shouldn't have an endgame though, its kind of part of their character.

>> No.23459415

>>23459341
While they didn't participate actively, the Necrons weren't without loses. Complete planetary annihilation was not rare in the war, and many Necron tomb worlds were lost. This reduced the Necron influence considerably, and are now looking even more desperately for a way to return to flesh.

Orks got very eaten, spores couldn't grow. They are very low in number, and reduced Imperial presence robbed them of material for their WAAAAAGHS. Because of this, they reverted to using sticks and blades as the bulk of their weaponry.

>> No.23459432

>>23459347
End-game is killing Slaanesh or getting free from her influence. They can then rape and pillage without worries.

>> No.23459462

>>23459432

Do they have any means of doing that?

>> No.23459499

>>23459462
Amassing so many souls she actually becomes satisfied and forgets about them.

Haemonculuwhatevers are working on it.

>> No.23459576

What if GW decided to have the best of both worlds and pull an *official* CBT style (3025only/3050+only) grognard split?

And by that I mean continue with the Warhammer 40K storyline as it is, to appease the oldschoolers, and also release as many different final endings as they want, for as many factions as they want? Like for example, they take 5 years and just tell the "official" story of the resurgence of the Eldar or the Imperium or whatever. Or, just have one official "Warhammer Future" that is the final Ragnarok of all time? Then they could have Storm of Chaos style fights again that actually mean something, they could whore money from every timeline if they really wanted, and they could also have the original setting remain deliciously stagnant without having to shoehorn more and more events and characters into ever smaller open timeline sections.

And more minis. and more money. moneymoneymoneymoney.

spoiler alert: GW loev moneyz.

>> No.23459582

>>23459499
Which would require them to do what chaos is trying, and failing, to do: kill 90% of the Imperium....or kill 90% of the Craftworld Eldar, and some Dark Eldar for good measure.

It's extremely difficult.

>> No.23459611

>>23459462

Only the hope that once every Eldar dies their spirits will combine into a new god powerful enough to obliterate Slaanesh.

Then they have to find a way of being able to reincarnate again.

>> No.23459623

>>23459611
Which is a problem in itself because you need to convince the druggie shut ins to go along with the plan.

>> No.23459647

>>23459623

Yeah, the Dark Eldar always struck me as not caring. They technically have a reason for their depravity, but at the end of the day, they enjoy causing suffering and pain, and don't want that to end. They're kind of another Ork faction, in that they've won in their own way.

>> No.23459652

>>23459576
That would actually work and make everyone happy.
Give everyone their own ending and let the fans interpret.

>> No.23459669

>>23459623

The codex seems to imply that the new god will be born by means of the infinity circuit, which means only all Craftworld Eldar would have to die.

>> No.23459697

>>23459669
That never really struck me as possible, there just aren't enough Eldar left in the galaxy to make a god, and even if they were able to make one, Slaanesh has been around longer and is likely more powerful.

>> No.23459712

>>23459652
Exactly. People always complain that 40k must remain stagnant because it's a "setting, not a story". OK, let them. There's nothing wrong with that. The whole damn point of 40K is for everyone to tell their own stories, right?

But everyone gets invested in a faction or another for whatever reason. They should also get to continue their stories that they've come to enjoy with some official backing, to keep grognards on the internet from yelling at them NO THAS WRONG CAUSE I UNTERPRET IT OTHER WAYS.

It's the difference between writing fanfic and roleplaying with just your friends, which no one cares about and it's just a personal circlejerk, and actually having some room for real creativity and interesting storytelling. (Which people can ALSO riff off of in their own time.)

>> No.23459750

>>23459697

Eh, if a bunch of earth shamans dieing and combining themselves resulted in the Emperor, it's possible they could pull it off.

>> No.23459827

>>23459697
Well, Slaanesh killed all the old gods, or was responsible for that whole debacle, so maybe they're hoping the newer the god the better?

>> No.23459865

>>23459827

And if Xenology or parts of it are still canon, the Eldar created their old gods themselves.

>> No.23459875

>>23459865

All Warp gods are created from belief and emotion.

>> No.23459912

>>23459865
Its funny how the 40k lore and the Fantasy lore link up. "Time of Chaos" in Fantasy is probably when the Eye of Terror opened up, the Slann were the arbitrators of the Old Ones until they "went away" - Necrons and C'tan killed them all.

>> No.23459922

>>23459875
Didn't the Realm of Chaos books claim that they were created by the souls of millions of dead dudes? Wouldn't that make Ynnead and the Emperor Chaos Gods?

>> No.23459938

>>23459875

Xenology (at least I think that was the source) says that by order of the Old Ones, the Eldar consciously created their gods to be used as psychic weapons during the War in Heaven.

The speaker then can't believe that the Eldar came to worship the very beings they created.

>> No.23459951

>>23459922

Chaos Gods are Warp Gods, but Warp Gods are not Chaos Gods.

>> No.23460164

>>23459922

I just noticed that Ynnead spelt backwards is Daenny... Or, pretty much, Denny. The Eldar are dying to create Reverse Denny the God.

I don't think I'd want to entrust the survival of my species to a dude named Denny.

>> No.23460865

>>23438879
It'll probably utterly screw over the Tau when their new codex comes.

How much you bet the cheapest walking banner Ethereal will still have a higher Ld than Commanders. So people will have to choose between whatever bubble powers they give Ethereals and whatever shooting powers wind up on the Tau Warlord table.

>> No.23462382

bump for scans of both books, or upload them at hammer solutions

>> No.23464575

>>23462382
40k: http://www.mediafire.com/view/?n44ps8ds86e56y0

Fantasy: http://www.mediafire.com/view/?wracsitvw1u69ec

>> No.23464695

>>23438327
And the fact that they spread Nurgle's rot and all other sorts of faceraping diseases.

>> No.23465579

>>23464575

Shame the 40k one (I haven't looked at fantasy) is missing a load of pages from the rules (like the entries for daemonettes and bloodletters).

>> No.23465961

>>23464575
BROTHER! THANK YOU!

>> No.23468339

>>23465579
That's because they have the same rules.

>> No.23468443

>>23464575
You are a saint among sinners

>>
Name (leave empty)
Comment (leave empty)
Name
E-mail
Subject
Comment
Password [?]Password used for file deletion.
Captcha
Action