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[ERROR] No.23408500 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Characters you think are the absolute epitome of a certain alignment

>Lawful Neutral

>> No.23408511

Chaotic Neutral

>> No.23408523

>>23408511
Chaotic Neutral

>> No.23408535

>>23408523
Chaotic Neutral.

>> No.23408536

>Do I really have to spell it out?

>> No.23408537

Chaotic Good

>> No.23408539

Chaotic Good

>> No.23408551

please lets not get into a giant argument in defining D&D Alignments.

>> No.23408553

>>23408539
>Tyler Durden
>Chaotic Good

Yeah, and so's Gilgamesh.

>> No.23408560

>Chaotic evil?

>> No.23408562

Lawful Lawful Lawful lawful lawful Lawful Law Awflal Awful Lawful Lawful Laufle Lawful Lawful Lawful Law Law Lawful

>> No.23408570

Lawful good

>> No.23408591

>>23408553
He does Chaotic things in order for some greater purpose.

>Holds a Guy hostage so the fear will cause him to rethink his life.

>Starts fights with people and loses so they can boost their confidence

Hell Project Mayhem was entirely Chaotic, but they destroyed Credit Card companies so they could bring everyone's debts back to zero.

I know the book is different but movie tyler is most definitely for the good. Even if he's full of shit.

>> No.23408594

Lawful Evil

>> No.23408597

>>23408553

But anon, his character sheet says Chaotic Good so he must be good no matter what depths of dickish he descends to!

Related, actually. Kill n' Torture em' all Chaotic Evil done in an actually interesting way.

>> No.23408601

>>23408511
True neutral.

>> No.23408603

Lawful Evil

>> No.23408614

>>23408597
whodat?

>> No.23408615

Lawful Evil.

>> No.23408616

>>23408603

>> No.23408621

>>23408603

Oh, you and your edginess.

>> No.23408622

>>23408616
or his father, who is also him, or whatever.

You know what I mean.

>> No.23408630

>>23408591
Okay, I can see Movie Tyler being Good.

Book Tyler is a cunt.

>>23408597
I fucking love Gilles. Crazy motherfucker is a GREAT Chaotic Evil example.

Here's Neutral Evil in a nutshell - no desires except to live fabulously forever.

>> No.23408652

Chaotic neutral

>> No.23408656

>>23408614
Gilles de Rais, one of the knights of Jeanne D'arc, as Caster in Fate/Zero

Supposedly after Jeanne died he delved into some hardcore demonology shit.

In Fate/Zero he is an insane, and insanely awesome, Lovecraftian sorcerer.

>> No.23408666

>>23408614

Caster, from Fate Zero. Gille de Rais, pissed about that whole Joan of Arc business, plus lovecraft, essentially. He has no time for all this bullshit "Infinite Magical Power" shit, all he wants to do is hide in his sewer and make art, and worship God in his own way.

>> No.23408669

True Neutral.
Her love is eternal

>> No.23408672

>>23408652

More like Lawful Neutral.

>> No.23408677

>>23408622
>2013 still being an edgy 13 year old?
wrong site friend.

>> No.23408679

>>23408652
You're a classy gent.

Lawful Good, but only at the end, having previously fallen to Lawful Neutral or even Evil - this is Redemption in action, guys.

>> No.23408694

>>23408603

>> No.23408697

>>23408672
Except that he only cares about himself and is rebelling against the established order

>> No.23408698

>>23408615
but everything is evil by our modern definition in 40k.

>> No.23408701

>>23408656
>Gilles de Rais

I thought he was supposed to be Blue Beard?

>> No.23408719

>>23408672
Within the mythology of the series, Michael [or was it Gabriel?] is Lawful Neutral, while Lucifer is literally Chaotic Neutral embodied. He's the quintessential rebel. He was built to fuck the system.

Chaotic Neutral duo, with leanings towards Good.

>> No.23408720

>>23408537
Lawful Stupid

>> No.23408724

>>23408677
>mfw I'm actually Protestant

>> No.23408728

>Chaotic Neutral

>> No.23408739

>>23408701
Bluebeard is a fictional character based on Gilles/Prelati

So yes, he is Bluebeard, but he's also Gilles de Rais.

>> No.23408744

>>23408594
lmfao

>> No.23408751

>>23408719
I'm pretty sure you can't measure those two on normal standards.

>> No.23408779

>>23408603
Out of everything you chose lawful evil?

1/10 made me respond

>> No.23408782

>>23408701

He tells people to call him Bluebeard, but he explicitly declares himself Gilles de Rais and mentions his wacky adventures with Jeanne.

>> No.23408790

>>23408724
and I'm a welsh corgi your point?

>> No.23408811

>>23408790

>> No.23408829

>>23408811
wut...

>> No.23408831

So far he's the best example of Chaotic Neutral I could find, i.e. one that isn't just "OMG RANDOM DO WHAT I WANT"

Sure, he may have been evil at times, and he may have been good at times. But over the course of his entire story, I'd say he's chaotic neutral done right.

That is, ignoring the fact I made him murder thousands of innocents along the way.

>> No.23408851

>>23408601
Which of the philosophers is that?

Is that Based Diogenes?

And I'm so glad that someone else watched Reign.

>> No.23408854

>>23408831

No, he's evil.

Zombies and other animated undead are usually evil.

>> No.23408866

>>23408854

You're killin me, smalls.

>> No.23408892

Lawful evil.

>> No.23408900

>>23408851

It is indeed based Diogenes.

>> No.23408912

lawful evil

despite his persona being totally over the top and wacky, he's the center of his own dimension -- you can't defy him because he makes the rules

>> No.23408917

>>23408831
I'd have to agree. Even if he works with the law on one or two occasions, pretty much everything Marston does is out of self-interest as far as the main story goes, and he seems to dislike or distrust authority of any kind. I played him as a straight-up hero myself, always stopping to help the random encounters and going after criminals and such. But if you were to play through the game from start to finish without doing a single sidequest, Chaotic Neutral fits.

>> No.23408941

>>23408892
>Orzhov
>character
anyway, another X-Men related example

neutral good

fighting for justice is great and all, but sometimes it just isn't the wise thing to do

>> No.23408945

>>23408912
Why would you post an image with this level of quality?

It's like sticking babies into the blender, drinking it, and then breaking the glass in my eyes.

>> No.23408972

>>23408945
because I am twisted and sadistic

>> No.23408981

>>23408698
He's still a good example.

>> No.23408984

>>23408719
Chaotic Stupid, but in the best way possible.

Pic related is Neutral Good.

>> No.23409075

>Lawful Good

>> No.23409132

Lawful Evil

>> No.23409148

>>23409132
Chaotic Evil masquerading as Lawful.

>> No.23409149

True Lawful

He's not a fictional character, but others have posted real people in here. I wanted to include him because he's an oft-overlooked and interesting person

>> No.23409152

Neutral Good

>> No.23409165

Lawful Good

>> No.23409177

>>23409075
>Lawful Lawful

>> No.23409183

Lawful Good

>> No.23409198

>>23409132
Worst part is I'd take him over every president after Kennedy since he's just lazy and not actively malevolent.

>> No.23409203

Chaotic Good

>> No.23409205

>>23408779
not original anon
but i think Jesus is perhaps neutral good

>> No.23409223

>>23408536
Depends, robinhood is in plenty of ways lawful good depending on the version of the story. Someone was trying to usurp the throne from the rightful king in certain versions and due to having the only military force loyal to him (and his black magic) the one person who would defend the innocent had to do it through slightly nonstandard means.

tl;dr robin hood is a lawful good paladin specialized in archery.

>> No.23409225

Neutral Evil

>> No.23409231

intelligent chaotic evil

>> No.23409237

>>23408603
No, Jesus is Chaotic Good, considering that at the time he was more or less a fugitive and was helping people.
God, on the other hand, is a rampant multi-personality mary sue with no real alignment if you believe everything in the bible, or a true neutral figment is you don't take his main fan fiction into account.

>> No.23409241

>>23409183
Man, that opening sequence is weirdly memetic [in the 'gets in your head' sense]

"My name is Friday. I carry a badge."

Neutral Good. Unsurprising, considering he takes equal inspiration from Batman and the Big Blue Boyscout.

>> No.23409260

>>23408854
I never finished undead nightmare, it was literally 2sppoky4me

>> No.23409273

>>23409225

>Lawful sexy

>> No.23409282

>implying dredd isn't lawful lawful

>> No.23409284

>>23408630
Dio brando? He's evil alright, but more inclined towards chaotic than neutral - just intelligent chaotic... when it comes to the joestars family it's more "fuck you" than anything else. He stuffed a guys dog into a furnace for no reason other than he could and it would make him miserable... then he pretends to be buddy-buddy with him so his betrayals only hurt more later.

>> No.23409287

>>23409237
>considering that at the time he was more or less a fugitive
And again, the alignment "Lawful" has precisely dick-all to do with the law of the land.

>> No.23409300

>>23409284
Neutral Evil. He did all of that with a plan. He systematically destroyed the guy's emotional bonds in order to drive him insane and steal his money.

Dio has a plan and acts in a logical, consistent manner.

He's just a gigantic fucking sociopath.

>> No.23409302 [DELETED] 

>>23409287
Chaotic Neutral.

>> No.23409309

>>23409231
I love Thanos, hes such a romantic.

>> No.23409313

Chaotic Neutral.

>> No.23409317

>>23409300

I don't think that Chaotic precludes planning.

>> No.23409329

>>23409317
Not necessarily. But Dio doesn't strike me as Chaotic. He's too orderly and obsessive for that.

>> No.23409335

Chaotic Evil.

>> No.23409343

Chaotic Good.

>> No.23409348

>>23409231
Lawful Evil.

>> No.23409355

Chaotic good.
He had the original sense evil.

>> No.23409368

Neutral Evil.

>> No.23409383

>>23409368
Chaotic good (in this page at least).

>> No.23409391

>>23409383
Goddamn it I keep replying to things i don't mean to. that wasn't supposed to be a reply to anything. fucknuggets.

>> No.23409403

chaotic evil. no question whatsoever.

>> No.23409410

Neutral Evil, y'all.

>> No.23409415

This may be a stupid question, but would Javert from Les Miserables count as lawful evil or lawful neutral?

>> No.23409422

neutral good.

>> No.23409423

lawful good

>> No.23409435

lawful good

>> No.23409436

>>23409415
We've had long, long threads about this. I'd say he started lawful good, but fell to lawful neutral, and when he couldn't deny anymore that law and good weren't always the same, he killed himself to try and get back to lawful good.

>> No.23409441

>>23409355
I've realized something. I've never played a Sun Wukong style character. I need to do this immediately.

>> No.23409463

>>23409435
Was this before he was retconned to be a dick in his youth?

>> No.23409486

So where does he go at this point?

I mean, he was clearly petty Neutral Evil up until DW7, but his portrayal has shifted considerably now that they included Jin.

>> No.23409491

True Neutral

>> No.23409493

>>23409383
I muchly argue argue that Optimus is about as Lawful good as one can get without having a massive red s on your chest.

Inheritor of the matrix tradition, never abandoning his duties, never leaves a man behind? "freedom is the right of all sentient beings"

Even in this pic, hes sort of reasoning out good over law, which is the hallmark of lawful good (as opposed to lawful neutral)

>> No.23409498

This is what true neutral should look like.

>> No.23409499

>>23409491
Holy shit, I'm wearing Arthur's outfit exactly.

>> No.23409504

Chaotic Good. Can't tell me I'm wrong on this.

>> No.23409507

Lawful Neutral/ Lawful Lawful.

>> No.23409508

>>23409309
Death does sure like jerking around, though.
>I'm going to remain here, aloof and death-like
>You're tagging along? Meh, why not.
>Oh, you're alive again. And you killed one third of the universe for me? How sweet.
>No, wait, not their time yet.
>Don't give up. I'm worth winning
>Sorry, but I had to give you up.
Seriously, over thirty years of this. There comes a time when an abstract sometimes-skeleton/sometimes-gal needs to shit or get off the pot.

>> No.23409509

>>23409436
>Javert arrests Fanitne
>"I have heard such protestations every day for twenty years"
>"Let's have no more explanations, save your breath, save your tears"

I'd say that places him fairly squarely in lawful neutral at least, most likely LE, and I severely doubt he was ever lawful good. Just lawful.

>> No.23409513

>>23409504

You're wrong.

Yuri would be lawful good if the system weren't so corrupt. He even tried to do things the lawful way. It didn't work.

>> No.23409526

Chaotic ANGRY

But seriously, Chaotic Good.

He's DEFINED by his rebellion against authority for the sake of the common man.

>> No.23409538

>>23409463
even if that were the case, in his adult years he still fits snugly into lawful good.

pic is chaotic good

>> No.23409540

>>23409493
That last panel strikes me as just "We should know how to get rid of powerful institutions for the sake of getting rid of powerful institutions." Which I'd say is chaotic.
And the freedom thing doesn't strike me as being very lawful either. I'm pretty sure law is the opposite of freedom.

>> No.23409552

Lawful Good

>> No.23409553

>>23409540
Not necessarily.

A Lawful Good society would inherently safeguard the freedoms and happiness of its citizens.

Again, understanding and applying the differences between Good and Law is what defines a Lawful character. And the reason you need to know how a system can be overthrown is because it acts a check on that system's ability to abuse the power it's given - look at the Constitution, which explicitly states that it is the duty of a lawful citizen to take any means to protect the common man from the government up to and including armed rebellion should that government be unfit to rule.

Optimus is Lawful Good as a motherfucker.

>> No.23409563

>>23409552
If I was superman I would've taken that crazy little goth bitch home and fucked her sane. Curse my fetishes.

>> No.23409569

>>23409509
Squarely Lawful, that's for sure. He also gives himself up for punishment, which doesn't really speak to LE (which tends to favor law as a means to help achieve evil ends). He can't really be called "good" given his callousness, but he certainly wants to be. (And of course, the hard "couldn't" isn't really true -- all being are sort of constellations of aligned motives and actions that have to be considered on the whole.)

Law is certainly what motivates him. Rather than believing that law encourages good, he seems to believe that nature determines the goodness and evilness of people absolutely. The idea of a good person in bad circumstances is alien to him. In his mind, a person's natural goodness and evilness always win out, are each in their own way determined by natural laws, and circumstances are evidence of this virtue (or lack thereof). He wants to serve good, but law plays a much bigger part in his philosophy, to the point where he recognizes he just can't continue once all of his internalized models of the universe start to unravel. He'd rather end it all than pick up the pieces unsure of what to believe in.

>> No.23409575

Lawful Evil

>> No.23409576

Lawful Evil.

>> No.23409578

>>23409526
I would suggest someone make an asura's wrath alignment chart with the eight generals (and maybe Chakravatin), but Yasha and Asura are the only ones who could be considered good out of all of them.
I know Dues would be lawful neutral, Augus would be chaotic neutral, Olga would be neutral evil, Sergei would be chaotic evil and Chakravatin would be lawful evil, but I'm not sure where I'd put Wyzen and Kalrow.

>> No.23409583

>>23409540
>I'm pretty sure law is the opposite of freedom.

Without the rule of law, there is nothing that keeps the strong from ruling over the weak.

A tyrant is DEFINED as a ruler unrestrained by the rule of law.

>> No.23409584

>>23409563
That's a guy. His name is Regan.

>> No.23409588

>>23409584
...Eh. I'd still do it.

>> No.23409596

>>23409569
Makes sense, though I'd say that his belief in the law is how he sees the evilness of people being mitigated. Since some people are just gutter trash or worse to him, they can live a life of goodness by following the law, even if they won't ever actually be good people. Honest work, just reward, that's the way to please the lord, etc.

>captcha: earnest eaholo
You said it, Javert.

>> No.23409597

>>23409513

I should also mention that his goal is a lawful good society.

>> No.23409601

>>23409513
Chaotic has less to do with laws of the land than it does with willingness to break the rules of society at large. They don't have to be laws either. A lawful character cares about things like tradition and such. A Chaotic character, on the other hand, goes along with it largely to avoid unnecessary trouble. He could really care less that something's been done a certain way for god knows how long. But he knows other people do and doesn't wish to get lynched or run out of town so he goes along with it.

tl;dr: Lawful vs. Chaotic is more about mindset than the actual breaking of rules/laws.

You are right that Yuri wouldn't break so many rules if the system was so fucked up, but even if it wasn't he'd still break whatever rules he felt got in the way of him doing good. That's just how he is.

He left the knights because he just couldn't turn a blind eye to the rampant corruption like he'd have to to get ahead and reach the commandant rank he'd need to in order to clean house. Flynn could, but he couldn't. He eventually got so fed up that he started wasting corrupt nobles and captains. No LG character would resort to this type of vigilantism unless they were eating babies.

>> No.23409606

>>23409540
>how do we get rid of you
This can be interpreted a few ways. One is, "if this all goes to Hell, where is the kill switch? Because a bad idea you can't shut down is unacceptable."

>> No.23409626

>>23409606
That's honestly one of the things I've always loved about the Optimus/Megatron conflict.

They believe a lot of the same things, but they carried those ideas to very different ends.

>> No.23409659

>>23409626
It's classic Lawful Good/Lawful Evil. Optimus sees a society with flaws and thinks 'People need to be protected from this - we need a society that respects everybody's freedom'. Megatron sees the same society, the same flaws, and thinks 'None of this would be a problem if I was in charge. What we need here is someone to tell them what to do.'

>> No.23409660

>>23409601

Yuri wants to play by the rules.

The problem is that the rules are strongly bent in favor of the extremely corrupt and often downright sadistic ruling class.

I don't think that killing a minister after his sweep-under-the-rug "punishment" in order to stop him from murdering more innocents or stopping a death march by killing the commander disqualifies a character from being lawful. Turning a blind eye to the fact that innocent people are going to die because you placed the corrupt system over their lives is getting into lawful stupid territory. It's perfectly lawful alignment to throw out the corrupt laws and seek to build a new government that uses the law to do good instead of evil.

>could really care less

So he does care?

>> No.23409673

>>23409606
>>23409626
>>23409659
I think the real question is...

If Megatron won and was in charge...

How would he answer his own three questions?

I think at the very least he has a fairly clear idea of number 3 - If you're stronger than him, you can try and take the throne.

>> No.23409725

>>23409601
>Chaotic has less to do with laws of the land than it does with willingness to break the rules of society at large.
Closer, but it's more basic than that.

First, alignment isn't just about a character's socialization. It's about his nature and tendencies, his past actions (which are the best indicator of his nature), and his outlook (how he internalizes his nature and his place in the world).

Good (recognizing that you are not the most important thing in the world taking a helpful approach to others) and Evil (believing that you have every right to treat yourself as the most important thing int he world, to the point where you don't care about harming others to help yourself) are fairly well understood.

A lawful character has some sort of method or code. His goals are from the code, his methods are deliberate and considered. He interpolates from the general case to his specific case. He values reliability, consistency, and justification. In other words, he externalizes everything, and leads his life according to his view of the external world.

Examples would be a methodical scientist, a disciplined soldier, an honor-bound chieftan, a structured tyranny, and so on.

A chaotic character eschews a code. His goals are derived from his personal wants, generally in the here and now. He operates according to whatever mode suits him at the time. He extrapolates from the his specific case to more general cases. He values flexibility, extemporaneousness, and personal desire. In other words, he internalizes everything, and his view of the external world is shaped by his personal feelings.

>> No.23409731

>>23409660
Again, the mindset is what matters. If a Chaotic Good person ever became a king he would alter the rules to be more in line with his own moral code and view of how society ought to be.

Does that suddenly make him lawful? If it is only a question of the laws then in the ultimate end there is no such thing as a "Chaotic" alignment as it would all depend completely on where you live and who's in charge. That doesn't make for a good alignment system as everyone's would keep changing everytime they went to a new area.

So again, mindset. It's *how willing* you are to go against the rules of society in order to do good/evil that determines if you're Lawful or Chaotic.

Now you are right, he does want to play by the rules, *his* rules to be more precise. Because he believes that if the rules were the way he wanted them then the injustices you mentioned wouldn't be so damned common and the perpetrators would be locked up or executed like they really should be.

>> No.23409764

Lawful neutral.

>> No.23409765

>>23409538
Flash Thompson. The New Venom.

I really love this version of Venom. Its like Agent Zero and Venom mixed together.

>> No.23409789

>>23409499
Don't forget your towel.

>> No.23409794

>>23409660

I like this interpretation of the Lawful alignment too.

On a different computer I have a copypasta saved, about why Lawful Good is actually the deepest character alignment with the most potential for both variety and internal drama. The basis of the argument was that "Lawful Good" is not simply "Lawful plus Good", but rather Lawfulgood, a seamless melding of the best aspects of both. I'll quote the part I can remember by heart:

"If an Evil judge uses the law for Evil purposes, a Lawful Good character is not obligated to respect that judge's decisions. He need only follow the law when it is just and fair. He need only follow Lawful Good"

Basically, a LG character doesn't have to "follow the law", he has to "follow Lawful Good". And that is a concept that is not defined by the "laws" of kings and parliaments, but by the laws of gods and the cosmos itself. LG obeys only one "law", the highest law of them all.

>> No.23409808

>>23409794
"Do as thou will."

>> No.23409823

>>23409808
...Hahah, I like you.

>> No.23409826

>>23409660

>Yuri wants to play by the rules.

No he doesn't, he wants to be a good guy. He couldn't stay in the knights not because of the corruption,(he knew little about it when he left) but because the only guy he could see himself following the orders of died. If the only reason you can stay in the military is because your commanding officer is awesome, and otherwise can't stand taking orders, you aren't lawful. Yuri has issues with authority, likely because he grew up in a slum, but he still couldn't deal with a lawfully regulated group. He didn't care about lawful action, he didn't even care that much about order, just what was good, and what was evil.

>> No.23409837

>>23409794
>"If an Evil judge uses the law for Evil purposes, a Lawful Good character is not obligated to respect that judge's decisions. He need only follow the law when it is just and fair. He need only follow Lawful Good"

>This post is by someone who does not understand the idea of civil disobedience

I agree that civil disobedience is a lawful good concept.

However, the important thing about that idea is that after you do something legally wrong for the sake of something ethically right, you submit to the law of the land and acknowledge the law that you are defying and the consequences of doing so.

>> No.23409842

>>23409794
So you play LG as NG. Gotcha.

>> No.23409845

>>23409149
My nigga.

>> No.23409866

Here is a lawful good character for you, she even has a rival who is chaotic(Neutral?)

>> No.23409868

>>23409731

Yes, mindset is what matters. And Yuri's mindset is towards tearing down the current corrupt structure so that a just one can rise in its place.

>HIS rules

You make it sound like not being okay with mass murder and hoarding the wealth = not being able to tolerate any rules and procedures that you just don't care for. You and the other guy are also disregarding the fact that Yuri tried to do things Flynn's way. It didn't work. The system was too corrupt, and more people were going to be murdered.

A lawful character doesn't need to abide by every law that exists. If the king of a region dies and rule is passed on to a sadistic prince, and the prince says "You must sacrifice your first born to me", and Mr. Lawful Good says "Go fuck yourself. I'm not sacrificing my son to you" and proceeds to rally a rebellion, that doesn't alter his alignment to neutral good. The law contradicts his good nature too strongly. The lawful good thing to do is to throw that fucker off the throne and put someone who values the welfare of the people on it in his place. If it can't happen within the new king's system, then it needs to be done from outside the constrains of said system. The important thing is that the lawful good character aims to create a structure that protects those that it lords over.

>> No.23409911

>>23409203
Not Lawful Good? He followed proper procedure into getting into office (more or less, barring the occasional assassination if I remember correctly) and his whole goal was to change the system from the inside.

>> No.23409913

>>23409866
Most easily sidetracked LG character ever.

>> No.23409955

>>23409868
Except the moment you start putting your own personal rules above those of that exist in the sprig around you, you become neutral, not lawful. You are cherry picking the rules you agree with and ignoring those you don't. Where divine law and human law disagree presents a similar situation, one either always takes precedent over the other or not. Picking one for situation A and another for situation B because they better align with your own ideas is again neutral, not lawful.

Incidentally .i am not advocating lawful stupid, just saying once you start following an internal code, you are not lawful.

>> No.23410003

>>23409794
>laws of gods and the cosmos itself
>implying there is a universal standard of good

>> No.23410032

Chaotic Neutral

>> No.23410035

>>23409868
And is that not the goal of every CG protagonist you've ever seen or played? To destroy the current, corrupt, even evil system/paradigm so that a more just one can take its place?

Now you are right a true LG comes down on the side of Good over the Law if pressed to make a choice, but how does he seek to change that evil system? Does he try and reform it from within somehow, or does he go full rebel "Fuck you! And fuck your laws!" mode? That would depend on how evil and corrupt the system is. If it is truly beyond redemption he'll side with the CG characters and join the rebellion. If it is not, he'll still try to work within the system. CG isn't really down with that.

I have to say that >>23409725 has made a good point as well. If we go from his definitions then Yuri is squarely within the CG camp. He acts on his feelings and they shape his worldview, and is far more concerned with the little issues than over the "big picture" as it were.

>> No.23410052

>>23410032
I thought that he sort of flipflops between Lawful Evil and Chaotic Evil.

>> No.23410062

>>23410052
All depends on which side the coin lands on. Good side he does a good deed, bad side and some evil shit goes down. So I always saw him as true neutral.

>> No.23410067

>>23410052

Not sure. Is adherance to the laws of probability in a way that give random results Lawful or Chaotic?

>> No.23410087

>>23410067
Surrendering your will to an outside force seems pretty Lawful to me. You're accepting an external code of conduct that you can't just change on a whim.

Of course, Two Face has been known to cheat.

>>23410062
Two Face rarely does any actual Good. Generally the nicest he gets is 'not doing evil that he would be fully capable of doing normally'

>> No.23410091

So, could a criminal be lawful? Say the character's part of a organized crime syndicate with very strict rules. If they follow those rules, even to their own detriment, would they be lawful or no?

>> No.23410092

>>23410035
The distinction:

Chaotic Good characters care about doing good, no matter what. They do not view honor or tradition or laws as an important aspect of ensuring good.

Lawful Good characters may change the system, or even overthrow the system, but they do so in a consistent, honorable fashion.

To really understand the difference, you should have a look at stuff like the Geneva Convention. While somewhat self serving, the real reason its a war crime to assassinate the presidents, generals, etc. of the opposing armies is because this prevents a dialogue from being opened that can result in negotiations, cease-fires, etc. That is the real reason Lawful Good types fight with honor, etc., and Chaotic Good types don't have to. The latter just don't give a fuck about institutions.

>> No.23410108

>>23410091
Yeah.

Look at Orzhov, which is pretty typical Lawful Evil.

They're also essentially a mafia/pyramid scheme - so entrenched in dogma and stratified codes that nobody can buck the system except the guys at the very top.

>> No.23410116

>>23410091

Lawful. Lawful Evil, but Lawful.

>> No.23410124

>>23409955

Let's talk about this practically here, because what you're describing is entirely too conditional and doesn't really work when describing things in the context of a character's motivations and actions.

Lawful = one who values structures, laws, planning, and procedures. "Rules and procedures exist for a reason." That's the motto of a lawful good character.

However, on top of being lawful, the character is also good. He fills out his paperwork, gets his warrants, uses nonlethal weaponry, reads a captured criminal his miranda rights, and sees to it that his living conditions in the cell aren't horrible because he believes that the rules are there to safeguard the health and prosperity of the common man.

But what happens when a corrupt power takes over and the rules are changed so that they serve the power rather that the people? To the point of systematic mass murder and wealth hoarding? He values structure because he sees it as the best means to protect the innocent. Obliging this new power would be evil.

Does organizing the rebellion so that a just government can replace the current regime change his nature? Of course not. He still sees much value in the power of law to do good. His nature is still lawful good, and when his rebellion succeeds, who's going to be the outlaw?

The willingness to oblige current laws is a very narrow way to define "lawful alignment".

>> No.23410135

>>23410124
>When his rebellion succeeds, who's going to be the outlaw

WHO INDEED ANON

>> No.23410146

True neutral.

>> No.23410152

>>23410091
So my followup is what's the difference between someone who follows a external code that contradicts the rules of the land, rather than an internal one? I think that lawfulness is determined by the rigidity of a person's internal code regardless of its source.

>> No.23410161

>>23410152
My position is, if you define your own rules and deviate from them when it doesn't serve your purpose, that's Chaotic. If you draw your rules from external sources and make your decisions based on that, that's Lawful.

>> No.23410172

>>23410124
Since when is following rules about practically?
Hell, using the word "practicality" screams neutral.

>> No.23410182

>>23410161
But anon, your position has a gap, two, rather. What if you define your own rules and don't deviate, what if you draw rules from external sources and then deviate from them?

>> No.23410188

>>23410092
And what if the current presidents or generals are unwilling to negotiate? Nope, still can't kill em', they're the leaders after all and by god we can't let anything happen to them even if they're the ones who fucking caused the war in the first place!

In the end, institutions (and those within them) serve themselves. Fucking. Period. The rules serve those who make them one way or the other. The rules have always been the tools of those who hold all the chips. The common man, I'm sorry to say, never seems to be holding many of those.

>> No.23410189

>>23410172
I believe he means practicality in the argument, not in the "lawful good" alignment

>> No.23410193

>>23410182
Then you're neutral.

A guy who does what HE feels is best but is consistent about it is Neutral. A guy who plays by the rules of society [or whatever code] except when it's inconvenient is also Neutral.

>> No.23410206

>>23410152
That doesn't work. Under your version a staunch anarchist who seeks to overthrow all artificial social constructs because he fully believes it is for the betterment of all is now lawful good and not chaotic good.

>> No.23410207

>>23410172

>lawful good = stupid

You must be the worst DM.

>> No.23410224

>>23410188
Okay, so your post is an example of the chaotic good logic at work.

Similarly, a CG vs an LG revolution may very well work differently.

The LG revolutionary would make a declaration of war, attempt to reason with the enemy leadership, etc. etc.

The CG revolutionary would probably, before doing anything else, assassinate the enemy leadership and let that be his declaration of war.

>> No.23410230

Movie Dredd is a great example of Lawful Good.

>> No.23410234

>>23410224
>The LG revolutionary would make a declaration of war

I hate to keep posting Cao Cao...

No I don't.

>> No.23410250

>>23409415

Definitely Lawful Neutral, but realises that law is not absolute, can't handle breaking alignment and an heroes. He enforces the law because the law is good to him. He's like Judge Dredd in that sense. If he was LG he might realise that the system he follows is broken and would try to change it or act outside of it, but he doesn't so he's LN.

>> No.23410254

>>23410234
In fairness, Cao Cao tried the assassination first.

It was only when that failed that he legitimized his revolution by Lawful means.

And even then he forged his causus belli.

...Cao Cao is kind of a dick.

>> No.23410257

I can never quite pin down Tom or Jerry, since they're both fucking assholes.

>> No.23410263

>>23410230
But anon, isn't Dredd THE definition of Lawful Neutral?

"I am the Law!", and man is he.

>> No.23410268

>>23410230

I'd say he is more LN, but there's definite signs of good in him thanks to LG Anderson.

>> No.23410271

>>23410207
way to assume, but if you equate any form of bureaucracy with practicality, might I suggest you get a job at the DMV?

>> No.23410276

>>23410263
Definitely in the comics, the 2012 movie not so much.

She's a pass

>> No.23410299

>>23410276

Only thing about that movie that bothered me was that line.

>RATE sentsiv

That's right, captcha. Too sensitive.

>> No.23410301

Chaotic Good

>> No.23410317

Lawful Good

>> No.23410322

>>23409508
So what you're saying is, "It's time to shit."

>> No.23410327

>>23410299

It's about time Dredd got some actual character development.

>> No.23410336

Is dredd even lawful? I mean he is empowered to do practically anything to uphold law . I think it goes without question that he believes what he is doing is for the best, but given his personality would he not behave similarly without the power if a judge? I can't see him not fighting back.

>> No.23410342

>>23410317
True Neutral/LN, in the very worst way imaginable. Fuck you Kyubey. Fuck you with a barbed wire dildo. You have billions of years left, why not spend them finding a better way to save the universe than sacrificing little girls?

>> No.23410345

The holy trifecta of Lawful Good.

All are Lawful Good in a different respect.

>> No.23410346

>>23410342
Because Gen is a hack writer who cannot into television.

>> No.23410394

>>23410271

>assuming that I was talking about myself

You blatantly said that practicality was for neutral characters.

A character can enforce intent over wording (i.e. a particularly bad situation presents itself, and he technically breaks some rules/laws in order to save lives) and still be lawful by nature. Or refuse to oblige corrupt laws, as I said before.

If a character has to choose between saving lives and following the rules in a situation where following the rules wouldn't really have any benefit towards his friends or the innocent, and he chooses the rules, that's more lawful neutral behavior.

>> No.23410395

>>23410254
>yfw Liu Bei will never be the ruler of China and lead his people into a Utopia.
>yfw you can't grow a beard and be like Guan Yu.

>> No.23410403

>>23410395
The Three Brothers were dicks too bro.

Don't believe the hype. I'm a Shufag myself but they have their issues.

>> No.23410418

>>23410336

Dredd's personality is highly shaped by his position. However he is the law, to be the law, what he does is for the sake of the law. The law is his entire focus. In this same way robots(as they are often portrayed in fiction) are lawful, because they are made to be lawful.

>> No.23410420

>>23410336
There was a comic when he'd just come back from being the Chief Judge of Luna-1, and was yet to be sworn back in as a Judge of Mega-City 1. When he saw a crime occurring, he reminded the perps that they were committing a crime, but didn't do anything about it until he was sworn back in.

>> No.23410422

>>23408560
Chaotic Neutral after Finn gets his mack on
Possibly even before depending on how strict we're being

>> No.23410425

>>23410403
I'm still working through Romance of the Three Kingdoms but Cao Cao has time and time again proven to be a huge ass. Liu Bei has his moments of derp but is more or less a likeable fellow. Again, from what I've read so far.

>> No.23410444

>>23410425
Have you hit the Liu Shan scene yet?

"Children and wives are as children"

And RotK, while a great read and like 80% historical, does have a Shu bias - the Emperor at the time claimed to be a rightful heir of the Han by way of Liu Bei, so the RotK goes to great lengths to legitimize Liu Bei's cause.

>> No.23410448

>>23410444
"Children and wives are as clothing", rather.

It's one of Liu Bei's more pronounced dickish moments.

>> No.23410468

Lawful good.

>> No.23410473

>>23408984
Best example I can think of
Good choice sir

>> No.23410474

Chaotic good.

>> No.23410476

Chaotic evil.

>> No.23410478

Sam Vimes is still the best example of Lawful Good in this thread.

>> No.23410493

Chaotic Evil

>> No.23410502

>>23410444
Poor A Dou

His own dad bashes his soft baby skull against a rock, and people are surprised when he's not enough of a Tactical Genius to save Shu from its incredibly shitty position after Liu Bei's self-destructive war against Wu.

Kid did alright for himself considering what he was up against. I don't think he's half as bad as he was portrayed in the Romance, much less the Hanjin.

>> No.23410509

>>23408679
I'd be more inclined to call him true lawful neutral or true neutral. He rarely ever gives a shit about other people and if he does it usually goes horribly wrong.

>> No.23410522

>>23410509
I was specifically speaking about his final act - it's very Javert-esque. It's subtly implied that he's committing suicide-by-Furies out of penance for realizing how his Lawful nature has led him to do terrible things to other people. He understands that he has to change, but he's too set in his ways to do it any other way... so he chooses an incarnation of himself he can trust to be Lawful Good and self-destructs, recognizing his own evil for what it is and seeking to atone.

>> No.23410537

>>23410420
He had never heard of a citizen's arrest?

>> No.23410544

Lawful neutral

>> No.23410546

>>23410537
Citizen's arrest is against the Law, citizen.

>> No.23410547

>>23410476
Fuck this cunt. I hated her so much.

>> No.23410548

>>23410493
Chaotic Faggot.

>> No.23410552

>>23410522
You don't get much more "alignment shift" than literally reincarnating into a guy with a new alignment.

>> No.23410557

>>23410546
I'm not too familiar with the literature, so I'll take your word for it, if you are saying that it's obsolete in that setting.

>> No.23410558

>>23410544

maybe chaotic neutral now that I think about it

>> No.23410584

>>23410557
It is a setting where the entirety of the law system has been handed over to judges who apprehend criminals, conduct investigations, decide verdicts, and enforce punishments.

Your right to self-defense went out the window a LONG fucking time ago, nevermind citizens arrests.

>> No.23410594

>>23410544

Pretty much all slasher antagonists (or protagonists, if told from the point of view of the killer) are either chaotic neutral (too insane to be considered evil) or evil (self-centered bastards) by definition.

>> No.23410596

>Chaotic Evil

>> No.23410604

>>23410594

Jason is just avenging his mother who was fucking murdered with a machete

>> No.23410618

>>23410604

By killing random teenagers.

>> No.23410628

Neutral Good

>> No.23410637

>>23410618

but she was only avenging jason who was murdered by drowning

>> No.23410653

CG

>> No.23410671

>>23409563
And that's exactly why you're not superman.

>> No.23410672

>>23410224
Either assassinate, or just tell the empire/government to go fuck themselves and if they ever try to enforce their BS laws in their territory their goons'll be getting in the bag if ya catch my drift.

>> No.23410675

>>23410547

She's especially bad you consider how awesome all of the other AT heroines are.

Even Saki, the second worst, is a rare justified example of the idiotically anti-fighting, "I'll fix things by stupidly cooperating with the bad guys" type.

Luca is just a massively self-centered, whiny little cuntface. Who's boring otherwise.

>> No.23410696

Neutral Good

>> No.23410701

Neutral Good

>> No.23411148

>>23410696
neutral good stupid

>> No.23411293

Lawful Neutral (loyal bodyguard).

>> No.23411303 [SPOILER] 

Chaotic Evil

>> No.23411319

Lawful Good (by 40k standards).

>> No.23411354

I'm not quite sure where I would place this pair.

Neutral Good?

>> No.23411425

>>23411354
>I'm not quite sure where I would place this pair.
>where I would place this pair.
>this pair
my sides have left the orbit

Lawful Good all the way.

>> No.23411427

>>23411354

They're shitty characters, either way.

Demon Queen could have been okay if they didn't force that "HURRR DURRR I'M NORMALLY MATURE AND SOCIALLY WELL ADJUSTED BUT I DEVOLVE INTO A SHELTERED CHILD AROUND SEX AND ROMANCE".

I hate that fucking show. It's so goddamn stupid.

>fun

Much like all other aspects of good storytelling, fun comes from good build up. Good characterization, good situational build up that makes the audience care, etc. This show doesn't have it.

>> No.23411460

>>23411303
That fucking smug asshole!

>> No.23411522

>>23409165
Damn yes. And a non-retarded Lawful Good at that, unlike Eddard Stark.

One of my favorite characters in any media.

>> No.23411528

>>23409203
I think he's more of a Lawful Neutral.

>> No.23411852

Chaotic Neutral

>> No.23412995

>>23408500
Dredd's lawful good, mate.

If you read his stuff you'd know.

>> No.23414124

>>23410124
I've come to think of lawful as being:

The means do not justify the ends.

I've come to think of chaos as:

The ends justify the means.


The rules of society to not matter. The question is does the character have a strict internal code. In general, we probably call this 'honor'.

If you are someone who believes that there are something that you just do not do, no matter what the cost, no matter the price of failure or the greater good that would be served...you are a 'lawful' character. If you are willing to 'do what it takes' to get the job done, no matter what, then you are a 'chaotic' character.

Adding in the evil/good layer works well with that view I think.

>> No.23414151

>>23410628
>panties are showing
Goddammit, Japan! Saya is made of all that's cute and innocent, so just for this once cut it out with the pervy peeping!

>> No.23414187

>>23408523
Once there was a similar thread about Rance alone. IIRC, the consensus was that Rance is so far down the chaotic path, that he is just Chaotic.

Or like Dredd is somewhere in this thread, Rance is Chaotic Chaotic.

>> No.23414730

>>23409198
That's just not fair to LBJ. He didn't even WANT to be president. The man had his heart in the right place he was just horribly horribly wrong about things.

>> No.23414780

>>23408615
Neutral Good.

>>
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