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/tg/ - Traditional Games

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[ERROR] No.23389003 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Great villains thread? Great villains thread.

>> No.23389031

What is that from, OP?

Shan-Yu from Mulan
>inb4 'but frollo is so much deeper bro'

>> No.23389054

John Silver from Treasure Planet. If you havent seen the movie, I suggest you do so.

>> No.23389060

>What is that from, OP?

>> No.23389073

>> No.23389077

to clarify, the movie is treasure planet, the character is john silver.

>> No.23389096

>> No.23389098

As a kid I hated Treasure Planet. Mainly because I thought the whole concept was bullshit. Is it actually good?

>> No.23389111

getting dangerously close to /co/ here

>> No.23389120

I watched it a few months ago and Enjoyed it. Enjoyed it so hard.

>> No.23389127

No need to clarify, didn't think his name was Treasure Planet.

>"Fucking faggot, hasn't seen my favorite Disney film"

>> No.23389138

its treasure island in space. yes it's good.

the voice cast is also fucking stellar.

>> No.23389140

Silver, eh? I liked him, great movie.

Do you know who Barracuda is? He's from Punisher Max. Barracuda is a great villain.

For a second I thought I was still in /co/

>> No.23389151

I loved every second this guy was on screen, even if he was getting his ass kicked.

If you're into cartoons/fantasy and haven't watched Wakfu, I recommend it.

>> No.23389156

Maybe we should try to make this a bit more /tg/ related by stating said characters or sharing favorite BBEG's from our own campaigns.

>> No.23389178

superior version.

>> No.23389185

Rolled 37

>treasure island in space
>voice cast is stellar


>> No.23389186

By all means, feel free to share.

>> No.23389206


>> No.23389234

Solomon Grundy. Easy.
Also, Preedex Yoa from Titan A.E.

>> No.23389259

I try.

this one's rather /v/ but I liked him.

>> No.23389260

I loved these guys!

>> No.23389265

>> No.23389290


"Believe me, you're the only one who cares."

>> No.23389295


best villain's speech.

>> No.23389302

Tim Curry version is always the superior version.

>> No.23389310

is that tim curry

>> No.23389311

>> No.23389323

well that answers that.

>> No.23389335

what movie is this

>> No.23389344

nice choice.

>> No.23389345

I love this evil motherfucker

>> No.23389347

>Muppet Treasure Island


>> No.23389359

alladin and the king of thieves.

>> No.23389361

Aladdin and the King of Theives

>> No.23389369


Aladdin and the 40 thieves or King of thieves or something like that

>> No.23389371

toothpaste! use it!

>> No.23389375

...Aladdin had sequels? Huh

>> No.23389382

the second one was rather meh.

>> No.23389385

If you don't know who this is, you don't know villainy.

>> No.23389389

You now know what Tim Curry's orgasm face looks like.

>> No.23389392








>> No.23389395


Almost every disney movie has a sequel. They simply went direct to video for cashgrab.

>> No.23389400

kay. i've posted it in a few threads before but to keep the mods from deleting the thread i'll share. the current BBEG my group is going up against is based on pic related. a giant golem that runs across the Mournlands. the group is trying to bring it down before the Lord of Blades can find and tame it.

>> No.23389402

Aladdin 4: Jafar May Need Glasses

>> No.23389403


>> No.23389407

>> No.23389423


Well then let me learn. Who is he? What is he from?

>> No.23389424

>G Gundam
you sir are a man of taste

>> No.23389428

What, like describe them in more detail? That way they could inspire other BBEG ideas.

>The only Disney villain ever to not be played for comedy, or made to be likable even for a second
>Invades a country and starts a war because a wall they built challenged his strength
>has a bad ass falcon for a pet
>murders messenger in cold blood, jokes about it
>smart mother fucker, brilliant tactician, trains his soldiers to pinpoint key facts about an enemy base based only on a doll they found
>burns and destroys everything in his path
>first to charge down a mountain into enemy forces, leading his entire army on horseback
>even when his army is annihilated, he fucking ROARS and brings an elite squad of less than 10 back to life
>infiltrates the enemy capital, leaps down from the rooftop and captures the emperor
>leaps from the ground and PUNCHES THROUGH THE STONE CEILING to fight Mulan
>dies in a violent explosion of fire

>> No.23389430

so a berserk golem responsible for the death of multiple people building/owning it? sweet.

and lord of blades rings a bell, but i cant place it. what setting?

>> No.23389436


>> No.23389438

who is this Ganondorf wannabe?

>> No.23389440

This guy. Bet nobody recognizes him.

>> No.23389447

Oh you mean Villainous Homosexual from the show Marty Stu: YEEEEEELLLINNNGGG EDITION?

>> No.23389448


>> No.23389452

It's Bennett from Commando.

>> No.23389455

Everybody's seen Commando.

>> No.23389465

The only FF villain that actually destroys the world

>> No.23389468

This is amazing.
I...I can't not watch it.

>> No.23389472

man I need to watch one piece again sometime

>> No.23389474

This nigga

>> No.23389478


He gave a pretty damn good evil speech the week after that.

>> No.23389479

Frollo's likeable? Wasn't his moment of humanity, "I want to fuck this chick or set her on fire or both."

But yeah Shan-Yu's underrated.

>> No.23389483

here watch this

>> No.23389493

Did the golem kill it's creator during its construction?

Also all hail bluesifer! Lord of the front range and guardian of the city of Denver!

>> No.23389498

I prefer it when villains are actually characters rather than "evil guy you have to kill."

So, pic related, Vader from the original three star wars (fuck the prequels), Gendo, Royal Tenenbaum, and I can't really think of any others.

>> No.23389501

Also his movie had Jackie Chan in it.
What, you mean you faggots DIDN'T watch the Cantonese dub of Mulan? I'll be honest I've never even seen the English version.

>> No.23389511

Lord of Blades is in the Eberron setting.

he is a warforged trying to raise an army to kill all non warforged.

>> No.23389512

>pic related

>> No.23389526

Zangurak from The Last Story (a video game, as stated).

he's different from ganondorf in that he's actually loved and respected by his people, and he and they are working to fight back the humans invading/massacring his countrymen. he's an honorable opponent in battle, and actually appreciates the allies he has.

>> No.23389532

>Is it actually good?

It is one of my favorite movies ever. So I am biased when I say "yes, yes it's good".

As for good villains?

>> No.23389537

I dunno but he looks pretty steamed

>> No.23389539

yeah. during it's construction it fell and killed it's sculptor.

>> No.23389541

also, by humans its less a whole "humans suck" plot and more "racist counts with space cannons be fucking crazy, yo" plot.

>> No.23389552

>got killed by a girl

>> No.23389560

I raise you

>> No.23389569

i was perfectly cool with the movie other than the end--YOU DO NOT FUCKING HUG THE DIVINE EMPEROR OF CHINA

>> No.23389582

He was presented as conflicted, he was empathetic to a degree, he interacted heavily with the main characters nearly the entire movie. He was definitely portrayed as human, and we can all sympathize with lust.
Shan-Yu was a force of nature, a looming shadow that drove the story and emotional tension of the other characters forward. They don't meet him until over halfway into the film .

>> No.23389587

Fuck, that guy runs a good game. I want to be involved!

>> No.23389596

>ctrl-f "Griffith"
>0 results

you motherfuckers

>> No.23389601

Hey, it's Disney.
He can also be forgiven for not expecting a rocket-powered dragon to attack him from behind.
Seconding Hopper having the best villain speech.

>> No.23389604

>he fucking ROARS and brings an elite squad of less than 10 back to life

Does anyone happen to have a gif of that?

>> No.23389609

He's to much of an ass to like
Fuck him
He betrayed everyone ;_;

>> No.23389620

Can't believe he wasn't suggested yet.

and yes I mean this version, no others.

>> No.23389625


Gawd damn the feels of this guy.


>> No.23389629

Your hipster levels are unbearable.

>> No.23389630

>he was just a cool guy who felt jilted with that wall getting built, so he wanted to surprise the emperor with entertainment from his band of merry men.
>let the messengers leave but they forgot their note, had the arrow guy shoot it ahead of them on an arrow for them to deliver
>found a doll in a river and he wanted to give it back--there was a little girl who's only friend was missing!

>> No.23389632

You're pretty cool, I think you should stick around

>> No.23389638

we said EVIL not DICK HEAD

>> No.23389642

Chaotic evil all day erry day


>> No.23389650

Oh god Gendo. Guy grows up in an abusive home, basically develops a hatred for everyone and everything, gets into bar fights to blow off steam. Then he meets Yui. He finally finds someone who gives a damn about him, finds love and all that sappy shit, to the point where he would do ANYTHING for her. They have a son, who they love very much.
Then Yui dies. And Gendo SNAPS. That scream Shinji does in EoE? Probably the same basic reaction Gendo had to losing Yui. But he goes through her notes, and he figures out what happened, and how he can GET HER BACK. So he devotes himself to that, putting more and more distance between himself and the boy. Eventually, he notices that he's never home to look after his son. Combine this with the fact that he doesn't really know how to raise a kid right anyway, not like his dad was a good example, and he decides it's best to send the boy to live with Yui's family, thinking "They're good people, they can look after him while I work on getting Yui back. Then we can be a family again. After I have Yui back."
At some point over the next seven years, he slid further and further down, becoming a monster for the most human of reasons. Love. He just wanted his girl back. How many heroes have been motivated to say "fuck destiny" and save the girl? Especially in mecha anime. Gendo is the flipside of that, a monster whose road to hell was paved with good intentions.

>> No.23389663

does being a villain for the first season, then a neutral computer the second still count as a villain?

>> No.23389665

Does Mags Bennett count?

>> No.23389669

Kind of goes without saying, man.

>> No.23389673

Best villain ever
Not only was he likable, he actually won in the end.

>> No.23389682

dat dub man

>> No.23389684

I need a gif of all the grains flying past his uncaring face with him not giving a single fuck. Maybe even a second one with the word "FEELS" on the grains.

>> No.23389688


I'm not evil, just misunderstood.

>> No.23389691

he also took levels in bard

>> No.23389692

I never even saw the movie until like two years ago. I wound up watching it with my girlfriend. She grew up in China. She wanted to watch it the way she did as a kid, and hey, Jackie Chan.

>> No.23389695

I one ran a game where all the players were conscripts defending The Tomb of the First Wyrm. Basically under a mountain is a dragon so powerful that it made the heavens (all my cosmologies are over-complicated.) but in a Lovecraft style catch 22 it's only mostly dead. Your job is to kill anything that might wake it up even by accident. Then half way through the campaign the dragon starts talking to you in your sleep.

>> No.23389700

>Took levels in bard
>Didn't die
Truely, he's the brokest of all

>> No.23389703


>> No.23389709

Best Megatron

>> No.23389725


Such shitty CGI

>> No.23389729

Ladd was great, just completely crazy.

>> No.23389737

What's the only way to make Ladd Russo better? By setting scenes of his psychosis to the music of Queen.

>> No.23389738

You Are now aware that "A bugs life" is a Disney retelling of Seven samurai

>> No.23389751

I knew that when I first watched it.
My dad was a big time movie buff, we'd watch movies all the time on the weekends.
And it IS one of the most copied plots ever.

>> No.23389761

This could be a nice AdEva campaign with some little tweaking...

>> No.23389770

You realise Jackie Chan's appeal has nothing to do with his voice and he's a really subpar singer. It's nothing to brag about.

>> No.23389792

Reboot had a reason atleast, first full CGI feature from Canada.

Still doesn't take away from the fact he's the best villain.

>> No.23389800

That thing terrifies me everytime I pass DIA.

>> No.23389813

It was completely passable, if not totally sweet CGI for 1994.

>> No.23389818

I love how Oda keeps major characters relevant. It was great seeing the marines freak out when he escaped Impel Down.

>> No.23389819

>You see brave adventurers why I've brought you before my council of me, myself and I is that I wish to kill you, but in killing you I need to show myself that you deserve to be killed, thus I sentence you....TO DEATH, Kif inform the men.

>So you're going to kill us to prove to yourself that killing us is correct?


>> No.23389820


The eyes... those fucking eyes... I think it was the anime that got them perfect. Just the exact right shade of blue. Feels like ice sickles on your spine.

>My next choice
It's kind of hard to go into why this guy is such a great villain exactly. Like, literally, the backstory is partially a Jungian metaphor. But if you ever wanted to see what a Blackguard as the party face can do, start small and work up to him.

>> No.23389821

good. that means it's doing its job.

>> No.23389849

The Player, specifically the one from the "Mortal Kombat" episode, was also a cool villain. He plucked the wings off an angel, man.

>> No.23389855

I always liked Hannibal.

>> No.23389862

It's got an anthro catwoman with a can-do personality that our anthro dog supporting character falls in love with.

>> No.23389866

this magnificent bastard.

>> No.23389878

This is how I lawful Evil

>> No.23389908

Captain Joseph Korso, sell out all of humanity to get your slice of the pie, keep fighting right up to the doublecross, fuck over the alien race that tries to screw you.

They shoulda just given him his own pleasure planet and be cool with it. The Dredj would've won then.

>> No.23389922

Way too fabulous

>> No.23389923

>> No.23389925

You think you can destroy me? Me!

>> No.23389927

So, canonically, the Queen has a toothbrush. But she doesn't have a mouth.

>> No.23389928

>mfw his fiendish servant is his own sister

>> No.23389943


Surely I can't be the only one who thought a lot of those games looked pretty fun and wished they existed. (the ones that weren't blatant copies of existing games)

>> No.23389945

>that vagina dentata parody song
god that was a great thread.

>> No.23389950

You've got a lot of guts. Let's see what they look like.

>> No.23389958

We've been over this one. It's either Vagina Dentia or some kind of descending mouth flap. Aliens yo, Ain't gotta explain shit. All you gotta know is : Dem pipes;


>> No.23389961


>> No.23389965

Mjr. Chip Hazard was such a badass. Fuck the Gorgonites, blast more Spice Girls.

>> No.23389971

One of the best kinds of villains...

Is the one who we all thought would be the hero.

>> No.23389972


>> No.23389978

When it comes to arching Dr. Venture, villainy is like a fucking art for the Monarch.

>> No.23389988

Half of the students at Ohtori High wind up as engineering majors in college.

On the other side of the pond is Traya from KotOR II. Traya was probably one of the best villainesses in the last decade. While the 'traitorous mentor' isn't exactly fresh these days, Kreia set herself apart by being a -mother- figure to the player. Her philosophy of riddles made it hard to be sure if she was ever truly good or evil, up until the end. Sara Kesselman provided a spectacular voice performance for the entire game. And as far as villainous goals go, it's hard to top killing the entirety of the Force in one fell blow.

>> No.23389989

Kumagawa's a fun guy. I have a thing for underdogs.

>> No.23389990


The best villain

>> No.23389992



>> No.23389996

Because having an incredible theme song and a hilariously silly power-up gimmick is enough to make me like him.

And besides he's kinda cute when drawn this way.

>> No.23389999

You're pretty good...

>> No.23390002

No. That's just a Rogue Trader.

>> No.23390008


I never fucking understood what her deal was in KOTOR to be honest, I never paid much attention to her during most of the storyline and in the very end BAM she suddenly becomes the keystone of the whole plot.

>> No.23390009


>> No.23390017

>Brainwashed himself to actually think he was Liquid Snake
No Ocelot, you're retarded.

>> No.23390022

Kumagawa is such a romantic

>> No.23390024

>kumagawa will never win a fight
i mean, if he did it would completely invalidate his existence, but COME ON

>> No.23390025

This. Just because he was getting used by Tzeentch doesn't mean he's a villain, he's just selfish.

And awesome.

>> No.23390035

Sillyness - the anime.
How NOT too love anything from that stupid show ?

>> No.23390045

that entire weapons display for those guys was hilarious.

>> No.23390048

Also, shameless plug, but drop some suggestions for the /tg/ villains playlist.


>> No.23390049

It worked, that's what matters.

>> No.23390051

What about this evil SOB?

>> No.23390054


Best Megatron indeed, yesss

>> No.23390056

I like to think that's how an Ork Rogue trader would work.

"Oi ya git, Zog me ya squigs, moov in! I'm da Rouge Trada Johm Baptiste E-manual Zog, dis be my shoota wares."

>> No.23390060

>his "villain song" is the silence after "A Girl Worth Fighting For" when the soldiers discover the burned down village.

god I fucking love Shan-Yu

>> No.23390064

Please don't greentext links. Makes (ever so slightly, but still pointless) more effort for everyone.

>> No.23390069

Guys... stop. I'm almost crying.

>> No.23390075

It's not that he CAN'T win, it's that he subconsciously doesn't want to win. He's afraid of winning. He feels comfort in being a loser.

>> No.23390078


>alright, WHO botched their bardic performance check!

>> No.23390083

>> No.23390086

1.beats the spam filter that can get thrown at you
2. some people have players embedded into 4chan, they can see the video directly that way.

>> No.23390087


It's really too bad that the villain in season 2 was so bland compared to Nox, mostly because they only gave themselves a few episodes to actually develop his character. And Rushu is too comedic, you can't take him seriously.

>> No.23390090

Vivec was a better villian.

>> No.23390095

maybe not the "best" but some of the most fun

>> No.23390096

>> No.23390101


>> No.23390103

I agree with those that have mentioned Nox

>> No.23390104


It's a shame Qilby and Rushu had to follow after Nox. They were great but Nox overshadowed them by a lot.

>> No.23390105

In Sandman, I mean. In his own series he's still a villain but the protagonist.

>> No.23390111

>> No.23390113

>> No.23390119

You think you can beat me!? MY HAIR IS FIRE!!!

>> No.23390120

Vivec is not a villain.

despite his sordid past

>> No.23390121

this version was my first introduction to the character, and its still my favorite to this day

>> No.23390123

This faggot, dick eating waifu killer

>> No.23390125

NO ONE is going to vouch for Eddie Izzard's Long John Silver? Fuck this gay earth...

>> No.23390133

I mean, she actually does have some really good points about just how insidious the Force is, but it's not developed enough over the course of the game for her betrayal to really feel "in-character."

>> No.23390138

I still kill him and imprison him every time.

>> No.23390141


No. Tim Curry has everyone else by the balls for that role.

>> No.23390142


No, we said "great". Betraying his friends to further his cause and achieve his dream and basically succeeding? That's pretty great villainy right there.


Yes, yes he did.

>> No.23390143

One of the best designed villains of all time.

One day I'll get to see jacks conclusion, until that day I'll be happy with the seven month campaign I DM'd for my bros as they went out to find the legendary Samurai and Scotsman that were the key tostopping the creature Aku.

They found Jack after so much damn work, and they realized that by sending him back, that would undo themselves from reality itself because the past would change so Aku never attracted half the galaxies mercenaries and thugs thus changing much of the earths history.

>> No.23390145

I thought it was like, protocol. I mean, I always wondered about it. Seemed like a pain in the ass from the very beginning to me. So no complaints here.

Back on topic; I was ultimately disappointed by Ganon in Twilight Princess, but I felt like I got a nice consolation prize in Zant. What started out a cool, collected general devolved into a screaming child, illuminating his madness every step of the way. The contortions of his body only added to what felt like an almost masochistic and definitely unhinged character, including his ultimate 'neck-snap' at the end. His fight proper was a thing of beauty; Zant slowly becomes sloppier and sloppier in his actions, finally turning into a mad dervish swinging his blades around in a blind frenzy. All the while, as past stages fly by, the musical score grows increasingly complex, adding more and more simple sounds to form a cacophony to match the character's movements. Zant was the true villain of Twilight Princess.

Unless it was Zelda, obviously.


>> No.23390152


>> No.23390154

Apparently we're getting a Samurai Jack comic to finish it.

>> No.23390155

Whoops, forgot pic

>> No.23390163

I want to run a Shadowrun game...

Starring a group of [Street] Samurai flung into the future by Not!Aku.

I just don't know Shadowrun well enough to be confident in running it.

>> No.23390168

You know /co/, I don't think he has that many scenes with chairs. It's not something he's known for.

Orcus, on the other hand...

>> No.23390172

I have to say that one of my favorite villains ever was Raoh. The way he did everything because he thought it was the only, right way to bring peace was great. The way he cried for his brothers despite being mortal enemies. And the way he PUNCHED THE SKY with his soul as he died.

>> No.23390177

Don't mind me. Just every bit as disturbing as Kefka.

>> No.23390182

>its not something he's known for
you havent heard of couchseid? ask on /co/ and you will have threads full of pics of it.

>> No.23390185

He always said, he'd try his best for a film, but anything is better than nothing.

The entire series would be fantastic if remastered just for a comic series, think about it almost all of the shots in that show line up.

>> No.23390188

What about the movie that Tartakovsky said he was working on?

Beat me to it.

>> No.23390190

>fought that fucking amazing giant guy and was PISSED that his men betrayed the terms of the battle

>> No.23390195

>not wanting to play the scotsman
are ye daft?

>> No.23390198

Yeah, Ganondorf wasn't the main villain there any more than Zelda was the princess. The whole thing was between Zant and Midna, each calling upon (to them) otherworldly forces to aid them.

>> No.23390205

Would Zant be considered the Twilight Realm's Ganon, or the Twilight Realm's Link?

>> No.23390206


The Scotsman would still be a street samurai though

With a magic sword admittedly. But also a machine-gun cyberlimb.

>> No.23390214

YES. The fight with Fudo the Mountain. "If I back behind this line, shoot me in the back, because if I feel fear, I don't deserve to live."
Then they shoot Fudo instead to save him and he fucking explodes. He was the 'villain', but he wasn't a horrible person. Though I like to pretend the second series didn't exist, because it was silly.

>> No.23390218

He's writing plot, but it's a long way to go. A long long way. Mainly because of the projects needed to fund it.

Hotel Transylvania was a good start, we'll see.

>> No.23390228

This motherfucker right here.

>> No.23390232

Pro Tier Villains already listed
>Thulsa Doom
>jean baptiste emanuel zorg
>Mark Hammil BEST JOKER


Die Monster! You don't belong in this world!

>> No.23390241

>Had like, one line

>> No.23390242


>> No.23390248

Seconded. Damn good works

>> No.23390255

did you not get through the upside down castle? he and alucard have this big discussion over their motivations and lisa (i think that was her name)'s wish to not harm people.

>> No.23390258

I love Dagoth Ur for the same reason I love this bitch here; build-up. A good villain is nothing without buildup, and the longer the pitch, the bigger the pay off. Dagoth Ur is with you from night one; dreamers on the roads, ash ghouls in the wastes, temples and shrines filled with strange geometry and graffiti. I mean, how threatening does something have to be that the Daedric princes wind up playing second banana to it?

It's the same with Jubileus. You finish up your first boss, a fucking LAVA DRAGON SERAPH who is either insane or exceedingly polite as he chuckles and blesses you while a demon eats him alive. And from every boss it's the same thing; Jubileus. Who is Jubileus? What is it like? What's the end-game here? And then you find out, and it is fucking glorious. While maybe not as personable as Dagoth Ur, the Creator makes up for it by being hard as balls and packing insta-kills and tossing galaxies.


>> No.23390265

You wouldn't talk either if you had a giant fucking castle full of badass monsters and the Dark Priest -SHUT YOUR MOUTH- I'm just talkin bout Shaft hanging around in your basement.

>> No.23390271

The only villain where live-action spin offs and Saturday morning cartoons make him feel more alive.

>> No.23390273

I always like the Ripper. Never found.

>> No.23390275

fuck i love you

Titan A.E is probably my favourite sci-fi movie

>> No.23390288


that's fucking depressing goddamn

>> No.23390291

hell, even the GoW knockoff's motivations for becoming evil despite being the protagonist weren't half bad

>> No.23390294

Gol Dukat

such a glorious villain.
I never loved hating someone as much as him.

>> No.23390295

This fuckin' guy.
Probably not the best villan, but everything about him made beating him that much better. Especially how much his composure changes from condescending to bezerk when ever he thinks he has an advantage over you and you prove him wrong.
I just loved everything about that game to be honest.

>> No.23390299

he looking to do a movie as well.

lets hope for both

>> No.23390305

What? How did you ever believe that cowardly narcissistic asshole was going to be a hero? Have you only seen that movie? Did you not read the book?

>> No.23390309

As a "game" I was rather unimpressed
But the overall narrative and story I absolutely adored

>> No.23390314

>Beating the shit out of him
>QTE pops up
>Realize they're his QTEs

Based Chakravartin

10/10 would extend hand.

>> No.23390316

shit gets real later

>> No.23390324

Alright let me slap some /lit/ down on ya guys.

BOOM, this motherfucker, you see him? One of the best Villains of all time, he let's you at sleep and bathe in his home...at a price, the next morning he thrusts you off into his private jungle with nothing but a buck-knife and gives you a few hours head start.

Then the game begins, a game of wits, a game of tactics, a game humanity has been playing since it first stepped from the puddle of gruel it came from...the most dangerous game gentlemen, that is the game this man plays.

A bastardized version of the book.
and the 1932 classic

>> No.23390328

never wins, but is a fucking terrifying opponent.

>> No.23390329



>> No.23390332


Now that's my kind of villain.

>> No.23390336

guess i'll have to play through bayonetta one of these days

>> No.23390341

He even gets brotherzoned by God.
Kumagawa just can't win.

>> No.23390342

Often because there is such a high cost that goes along with beating him. He's not just any loser. He's the king of losers. He'll fucking drag you to the bottom of the shit heap and make you claw your way back up.

>> No.23390351

And the fight just kept getting bigger, and bigger, and bigger. And that was how Asura killed GOD. Not a god. Not the god of anything in particular. GOD - The Supreme Being, Creator of All. The Universe made Manifest.

Fuck, it doesn't get any more Epic than that.

>> No.23390358

if we're bringing /lit/ into the thread than ignorance and racism are the greatest villains of all time.

>> No.23390360

>> No.23390369

The sad and morbid thing is ,the bastards that got the real shit done are the ones they probably never caught.

They'll kill hundred in their lifetime and never be caught.Because it's what they do, and they know how to do it well, never-mind the reason or why, it's the ideals of a madman to try to study the mind of one.

>> No.23390370

The truth is that it's the players that make the game great. Certainly it takes a great deal of talent and work on the part of the GM, but an epic story simply cannot be had with palyers who are not striving to attain it.

>> No.23390374

He also had the baddest of ass themes (5 in total!) throughout his season, the last one is of course the best


>> No.23390375


>> No.23390378

What's that from, anon?

The evil thing from 9 (I forget it's name). FUCK THAT DOLL-THING!

>> No.23390379 [DELETED] 

>> No.23390382

so no-one likes liches who use communists as a weapon?

>> No.23390389

>that is the game this man plays.
No, it is the game he HUNTS!
As in the phrase "big game"!
MAN is the most dangerous game of all!
We read that book in my high school English class and I had to spend an entire period trying to get that through the skulls of those thick idiots, so the mistake is a bit of a pet peeve.

>> No.23390392

oh rasputin, you terrified that group of men who tried to kill you at dinner for the rest of their lives.

>> No.23390393

Nothing says villainy like a pit full of snakes.

I mean.. It's a pit.. and it's full of SNAKES.

>> No.23390395

>Drew Barrymore in an awesome Scifi apocalypse Humanity Fuck Yeah movie
>Planet Bob

What's not to love?

>> No.23390401

and also the fact that fighting him there is pointless since he can just un-die.

>> No.23390402

I know we're generally supposed to think about Dantes as the protagonist, and a "good guy," I can't help but think of him as a great villain. All the things he does, the intricate plots for revenge, his enormous wealth, his obsession with revenge... He reminds me of a stereotypical, moustache twirling bad guy, though of course his backstory gives us reason to forgive him, and even side with him. I really should re-read The Count of Monte Cristo, and I recommend it to whomever hasn't read it yet.

>> No.23390418

Bill the Butcher.
I loved this character so much i wound up basing my rogue on the guy.


>> No.23390422

Not the real one mind you, but the one from tfs abridge. Everything about him seemed perfect for the spoiled evil nobility. The jokes did ruin his personality at times but once he started "counting" the namekians lines as a tally for how many times hes heard them, I was sold.

>> No.23390437

It's a story of gray morality for sure. I like to think of him as an agreeable villain.

>> No.23390451

I love villains that constantly mock you throughout your quest.

>> No.23390452



>> No.23390469


>> No.23390472

whos dis

have you watched the anime

>> No.23390484

"L-l-look at you, /tg/. A p-p-pathetic board of meat and neckbeard, panting and sweating as you r-run through your threads. H-h-how can these villians challenge a perfect, immortal machine?"

>> No.23390485

Stupid pig.

>> No.23390486

>> No.23390495

I always thought it was weird that disney put a Sith Lord as the main antagonist of a movie set in ancient china.

>> No.23390499

While he isn't exactly a villain
I love him. He's a good man at heart, he's just willing to do whatever it takes to reach his goal

>> No.23390505

I have yet to play the game and I love this motherfucker

>> No.23390508

Boss from asuras wraith. Hes literally god and throws suns at you as a "test"

>> No.23390511

I dunno. I'm kind of 50/50 on this one. Grigori felt more like an agent of fate, albeit a purely destructive one. Not to mention there's the theory that he and the drakes are the angels of the world.

On the other hand, he definitely lived up to his hype, and was one hell of a challenge. That and he was easily one of the most impressive video game dragons... well, ever. I mean his sheer scale puts wyverns and the Arch-fiend to shame. He looks like he could rag-doll Alduin like a pit-bull. I first saw Grigori in the trailers, and my immediate thought was, 'THAT. THAT IS A FUCKING DRAGON.'

>> No.23390512

He's not really a villain.

>> No.23390518

Sometimes all you need for a good villain is a misanthropic treacherous son of a bitch with a longsword.

>> No.23390520

proof you havent played the game.

>> No.23390523

No to mention, she mange to somehow infect a human being and turn her into her avatar.
I like what he did with his country, it might be turn into a policestate but there's more good done than any other regime before.

>> No.23390524


Fuck, man. I wanted to kill his ass. Motha fucka was a goddamn villain.



>> No.23390528

Why so grouchy, Shocchan?

>> No.23390529

Not really a villain.

>> No.23390535

/co/ would have you believe he's a good father too.

>> No.23390536

Indeed, his people truly love him as a leader

>> No.23390538

mah niggah

What do these punk ass bitches know about the Black Cauldron?

>> No.23390543

Every time I play kotor or Fable and there are friends around I jokingly call Kreia, Traya and vice versa. The two are so GOD DAMN similar it hurts.

>> No.23390544

broken bottles.
creepy biomass hive.

>> No.23390545

>> No.23390546

Dis nigga right here.

>> No.23390558

Quilby wasn't so bad, really. He at least had somewhat believable motivations. THE WORLD IS TOO SMALL, I NEED TO SEE THE STARS! is a pretty fucking awesome mantra if you ask me.

>> No.23390559

One of my favorites, I don't think I've ever liked and hated a villain like I did him before.

>> No.23390563

Well considering their previous regime, it would be hard not to love a new leader who change thing. Dr. Doom being a good leader just make it even better.
Aye, just a carbon totally-not-a-lifeform doing his job, earning his pay and sending it back to his family.

>> No.23390572


>> No.23390575


>> No.23390577

no i have not.

>> No.23390579

The BETA are terrifying and all, but they're more like a force of nature than beings with actively evil intent.

>> No.23390580

Also, best villain in any Disney movie.

>> No.23390582




>> No.23390585

Can you hear that, Detective? It's the sound of me clapping at your success? Oh, you can't? That's because an idiot would have found that trophy.

>> No.23390592

Did you know that Sir Christopher Lee voiced Haggard in both the English and German versions of the film?

>> No.23390601

>Army of robotic and goggle-wearing minions.
>Head of technological weaponry corporation.
>Calls upon legendary warriors for a mission, then tries to kill them.
>Female assistant that tires of the bad life and contributes to their demise.
>Only wanted to be a hero.

>> No.23390606


Also, holy fuck I didn't know Jerry Goldsmith did the original score for Mulan.

>> No.23390613

Aye, just doing what they were ordered too. No real evil intent. Espically when they didn't even think they're killing lifeform, just collecting minerals to send back to their creator.

>> No.23390614


Poor poor Jack

>> No.23390618


She hated the Force. She saw it as, essentially, an unfeeling deity playing with the lives of millions for the purpose of some arbitrary balance, and she wanted to destroy it. The Exile was beautiful to her, because The Exile cut themself off so utterly from the Force that they became a walking wound in it. The Exile was her proof that the Force wasn't necessary, that people can live without it. The Exile was the vindication of all of her beliefs. The Jedi Council, in their arrogance, deemed that the Exile was of the Dark Side and had to be destroyed.

In KotOR 2, the Jedi really are arrogant and shortsighted. It's Their Way or the Highway to the worst degree because they honestly believe they're infallible. The Exile is not a true Jedi, not the Jedi she knows. She loves you for that.

>> No.23390623

No fucking villain actually thinks they're evil, unless your setting is a fucking saturday morning cartoon or something.

>> No.23390628

Well, they aren't even sentient, so...

>> No.23390630



>> No.23390634


yall muthafuckers better recognize

>> No.23390636

Well, you see, they don't actually think about,well, ANYTHING. They just follow their orders without questions.

>> No.23390637

>> No.23390640

How not to villain

>Fight through Panchea's weird shit
>Confront Darrow
>Descend to the bottom of the sea
>Wait, who are you? Oh, right, no one cares about you.

>> No.23390643

The Horned King (>>23390485) does.

>> No.23390644

A villain doesn't have to be sentient in order to be a villain.

>> No.23390646


>0 results found

Dafuq /tg/? Did you forget about one of the more charismatic bastards of the 90s?

>> No.23390654

Griffith is such a great villain. It took years for it to be fully realized, but the dichotomy between Griffith and Guts is just fucking amazing.

Griffith was fated to be amazing, and he knew it. He formed a band of mercenaries that all worked with him because he was amazing. He had a genius plan to get his own kingdom that involved winning all of the wars and then marrying the princess as absolute hero of the land.

Guts never cared. He's been dirt from the time he was born. He's fought and survived...well, just because that's it for him. It's either death or killing. Then he meets up with the band of the Hawk, and he's not a leader. He works with them because he genuinely likes them, and thinks that he might find a purpose with them.

Then Guts leaves. He leaves because Griffith is so awesome it inspires Guts to seek his own path. But that crushes Griffith- it makes him question his entire purpose. If Guts could leave of his own will, then anyone could do the same. So he enacts his plan too soon and gets caught. He's imprisoned and tortured, and after a year he's saved by the same man that lead to his betrayal. And the worse part? Guts has not occupied the same position in the band of the Hawk he did. Guts has utterly supplanted him in every way. Griffith has gone from being a hero and a saint to a barely functioning mute that can barely move.

What does the Hawk matter now if it's not his? Guts has Casca and the Hawk- so why should Griffith care about them at all? He sacrifices all of them for power. They're GOING to be useful no matter what.

The best part? This is the catalyst for Guts overcoming Griffith even more. Guts begins to attract people by the sheer force of his own will. He is one of the only figures in the entire WORLD that can stand up to the incomprehensible forces of terror that are threatening them, and no one understands how.

Guts, through his own effort, has become the hero that Griffith always thought he was destined to be.

>> No.23390656

I always chose to save him. The greatest punishment you can deliver unto a betrayer is to forgive them utterly.


>> No.23390657

what are you talking about, there's lots of villains who look at themselves and realize they're a monster. they usually continue anyway due to apathy or because there's still their goal they want to achieve.

>> No.23390658

Laugh it up, JC.

>> No.23390662

>> No.23390663

Sorry for gushing so much, I just read all of Berserk about a month ago and I got pretty fucking hyped.

>> No.23390664


>> No.23390671

Because the Decon was in a shitty movie that no one really cared much about?

>> No.23390672

>> No.23390673


If you're going to talk about Adventure Time, then there's one villain you best be naming.

>> No.23390683

>Iska is your best friend
>Totally useless in a battle, constantly beating himself up and cheering you on
>War orphan/tragic past
>Spend the entire game collecting shards of Soul Edge to repair it
>Iska helps you find them because he's your BFF
>Eventually meet the emperor and start working for her
>Emperor goes nuts and wants Soul Calibur and Soul Edge
>You have to defeat her
>After battle she starts repeating the same line and her voice begins to turn robotic as she limps towards you
>Plunge Soul Edge in the ground next to Soul Calibur and proclaim that everything's over
>The second your back is turned Iska slinks out from behind the throne
>Picks up both the swords and starts laughing
>Reveals that he was using you to collect the swords for him
>Cuts off the emperor's head
>She's an automaton he built to look like his dead sister and was part of his plan to fool you into collecting the swords for him
>He had the entire fucking world working in his favour all along
>He transforms with the two swords in hand

I did not see that shit coming. The whole game philosophized about what power means and whether it's necessary or how to get it a lot. Turns out that, driven by his losses, he'd been out to gain the ultimate power so that he could never lose anything important to him again. Really, he wasn't evil at all, and it's you who becomes possessed with Soul Edge's evil in later games.

>> No.23390684

Exactly, they justify it to themselves. They aren't doing evil for the sake of evil.

>> No.23390686

And? See >>23390672 for more awesome villains in shit movies

>> No.23390689


I liked this post so much, I think I'll save it.

>> No.23390699

that little naked bastard can go rot in hell. he was a parasite that was sucking away siegfried's lines and backstabs you for helping his sorry ass out.

>> No.23390703


>> No.23390709


Got a friend reading it, I also want to check it out

>> No.23390713

thats the thing, there are some folks doing it for the sake of evil--theyre usually sociopathic or on a big universal balance kick (if there is light there must be darkness, and i shall be that darkness, etc.).

>> No.23390719

Oh hai guise

>> No.23390722

That dog scene

>> No.23390723

>> No.23390727

Any filmfags?

>> No.23390728

Line piece. Line piece. Line piece. Line piece.

>> No.23390729

Oh, don't mind me /tg/, I'm just sitting around being an absolute boss, and an avatar of destruction using universe warping cosmic magic. Motherfuckin' Canaletto, man.

>> No.23390730

Oh fuck, I remember Candlejack.

It's been so lo

>> No.23390731


>> No.23390732


But there are those that do evil, knowing it to be evil, but feel powerless to stop themselves.

>> No.23390735

This guy right here.

>> No.23390739


Is this nigga serious? Schwarzwald was CG at its finest.

>> No.23390740


This fucking guy.


>> No.23390741

You, I like you and your guts. I bet they're huge

>> No.23390745


Ok, you know he ain't a villain.

Except kinda cuz he killed that one guy...

But in the grand scheme, not too much

>> No.23390747

True, but good intent or not, he still wanted to destroy Paradigm.

That said, the only reason Big Duo let him pilot was because his overall goal was worthy.

>> No.23390754


>> No.23390755

It's called Gankutsuou, it's definitely worth your time.

>> No.23390759


I just learned his name means "Black Forest."

That's fucking badass

>> No.23390774


Woah, they do some cool shit with his eyes and Duo's eyes. Artist got some mad chops

>> No.23390777

he is systematically assassinating the entire ruling class (including those who legitimately regret their actions and work to better the world as a form of repentance) and throwing the country into complete chaos because of revenge.

also, the country is getting attacked by those monsterpeople he worked to get that peace treaty signed with.

that said, a lot of the people he's killing are complete psychos. its the fact that he's also killing the good ones which is leaving the fucking terrible ones in better positions of power to fuck up the country even more.

great plan, terrible execution.

>> No.23390793


And in the end, he got what he wanted.

>> No.23390795

I love it when they're giant assholes

>> No.23390803

>Quilby wasn't so bad, really. He at least had somewhat believable motivations. THE WORLD IS TOO SMALL, I NEED TO SEE THE STARS! is a pretty fucking awesome mantra if you ask me.

I can imagine before he provoked the Mekansms(or whatever they were called) he was a bit like that personality core from Portal 2.


Even Shininome thought he was a biiiiiit too fixated on travelling space.

>> No.23390818


A good chunk of that ruling class were fucking monstrous horrible rulers. Kid had poor decision making in taking them out in the wrong order.

That entire manga is a bundle of grey but I think koin is comfortable in "not-villain," at least for now

>> No.23390830

Be glad that you can read it at a faster pace now because it takes a while for the plot to really kind of show itself for what it's trying to be.

>> No.23390841

>> No.23390847

Now that you mention it, why has no one mentioned GLaDOS?

>> No.23390849


Yeah, Unsounded is kind of like that.

Also I think Bride's Story is building to something

>> No.23390854


I was thinking about it but was feeling bad for all the "new" villains and was tryin to dig for old ones

>> No.23390856


>> No.23390861

>>Stansfield: I like these calm little moments before the storm. It reminds me of Beethoven. Can you hear it? It's like when you put your head to the grass and you can hear the growin' and you can hear the insects. Do you like Beethoven?
>>Malky: I couldn't really say.

>>Mathilda: You killed my brother.
>>Stansfield: I'm sorry. And you want to join him?
>>Mathilda: No.
>>Stansfield: It's always the same thing. It's when you start to become really afraid of death that you learn to appreciate life. Do you like life, sweetheart?
>>Mathilda: Yes.
>>Stansfield: That's good, because I take no pleasure in taking life if it's from a person who doesn't care about it.

>> No.23390874

Because mine's better.

>> No.23390883

i agree on that, his order was terrible. that's actually the main reason shit has gotten so bad currently--he imbalanced the ruling class so the dickheads now control the country.

personally i still count Ikfes as the "hero" of the story. leblont interrupting that duel was fcking terrible.

>> No.23390887


aaaaaahhhh, this fucking comp

>> No.23390890

I don't know, he seems pretty silly in that last episode. Unless it turns out that he somehow faked it too.

>> No.23390892

Just checking up on my knowledge, that's from I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream right?

>> No.23390894

not a villain ;_;

>> No.23390908

I always likes how his name went from Allied Mastercomputer to Adaptive Manipulator to Aggressive Menace to AM. Because cogito ergo sum.
Yep. The bitter, malevolent godlike AI the story is centered around.

>> No.23390919


I can't wait for that asshole to get wasted. Given the trend of the story I imagine he's gonna go down 2nd to last maybe killed by Octopus Head, the fucker that cool/comedic needs to bring down a big bad most likely resulting in his own demise and then final battle with Ikfes v Koin.

>> No.23390926


but she needs to be one ;_;

>> No.23390932


Yeah, I watched a LP of the point&click game but I still need to read the goddamn story

>> No.23390933

I suppose I could post a /tg/ villain as well.

My most successful one has, hilariously enough, basically been the physical embodiment of "lolsorandum". He's the physical god that represents disorder, confusion, chaos, and anything that does not make sense in the universe.

His entire MO is doing whatever would upset the established order of things the most at any given time regardless of who he's helping or hurting in the long run. He could ally with a country one minute and then kill the king and institute himself as a dictator and then declare a lowborn peasant the new king all in the same day. He's impossible to reason with, understand, or predict in any way since even trying to guess what he will do alters his behavior.

I tend to use him in most of my different games in some fashion, and my players are utterly terrified of him.

>> No.23390937

oh octopus man, you're amazing--gaying your way through customs was fucking brilliant.

>> No.23390939

The story's a lot different.
For one, there isn't a good end. For two, no reason is given for why AM chose them.

>> No.23390953


God, that scene made me laugh so fucking hard

>> No.23390955

so... pic related?

>> No.23390959


Yeah, I read a synopsis so I know the plot of the story. I'm really interested in reading how it was written.

>> No.23390973

I still maintain that Quilby equals Nox.

The entire point was that his technical immortality and completely perfect memory had driven him almost entirely insane. The universe was too small for him to bear. While everyone around him reincarnated with no memory, he remembered every single detail perfectly. He had seen every aspect of the Eliatrope home planet, from every angle, in every possible light, hundreds and hundreds of times over. He had the same conversations with his siblings each time they reincarnated. Over, and over, and over. To anybody with even the slightest sense of adventure, even if they had a boredom threshhold bordering on diety levels, it would have been utter hell. He was already suffering the worst torture possible, and it still took him years and years to finally snap and cross the moral event horizon. He lived in a prison of static images and events for an indeterminate amount of time, through absolutely no fault of his own.

But he was still sort of a decent person underneath all that insanity. Then his family locked him in an empty void. A room of *nothing*. They locked a person with an infinite lifespan, and a perfect memory, in a room full of ABSOLUTELY NOTHING for thousands of years. He wanted the eliatrope race to come with him and see the stars. Even if it was for a selfish reason, he wanted his family to come with him on his adventure, and they repayed him with a fate that is infinitely worse than death, and they were fully aware of that. If that isn't evil, I don't know what the fuck is.

And then at the end of season 2, Yugo locks him back into that prison, while Quilby begs for mercy, having just explained his perfect memory. Yugo should have killed him, it would have been infinitely kinder.

Quilby may be chaotic evil, but I think it leans towards neutral given his motives: Travelling the stars with his family. What Yugo does to him as punishment for this dream falls right on the evil side of the scale, though.

>> No.23390977

Actually I'd say Q. Or Discord

>> No.23390981

no. no and fuck you.

>> No.23390995

It's really short. Why put it off?

>> No.23391003

giving the duel a re-read now:
>ikfes using the black wing

anyway we should stop this (gushing over good guys), we're not even talking about villains anymore.

>> No.23391024


Not sure. I enjoy spending time just having my brain in shut off mode. Helps lose track of stress but also the things you want.

Just bought it, gonna read it tomorrow.

>> No.23391035


>ikfes using the black wing

I'd be lying if I didn't see it coming.

But I'd also be lying if I said it wasn't a "OOOOH SHIIIIIIIIT" moment

but yes, gushing tiem over

>> No.23391060

Quilby did lead to the downfall of the Eliatropes though, he's singlehandedly responsible for the death of millions, maybe billions, and due to his eternal memory and reincarnation they can't just put him down, and his cunning also means that any regular prison would be too risky.
I actually sort of like him more than Nox

>> No.23391085


I think the thing that makes mine work a little better is that he's not "stupid" everything he does makes perfect sense to him, and he's actually cold and logical sounding more then loud or hilarious.

He doesn't do into a town and burn it to the ground while cackling and making a stupid speech. Instead, he flays all of the men in town alive and then leaves in the middle of the night. He'd lead the armies of a noble king into battle for years and then assassinate him the day he was to take the throne so the nobles could continue fighting.

Imagine the most moral upstanding paladin you possibly can that would do virtually anything to help the innocent. This guy is that, only his "moral" imperative is confusion, disorder, and hysteria backed up by godlike powers.

>> No.23391091

By "work better" I mean in the general sense, not that he's a better villain then anything else anyone's posted. He's not just "do evil shit because it's random."

>> No.23391094 [DELETED] 


I just can't see this guy as evil. A product of the times? yes. but he wasn't evil or he would've killed Django and Dr. Shultz immediately, or at least wouldn't have offered to sell his wife to him. And even more... had Shultz not been a dick they all would've made it out alive and fine.

>> No.23391098

You're right, actually. No matter what the heroes do, he'll always be suffering. There's literally no way to save him. Kill him, he reincarnates. Let him live, he continues to live in a world he has seen millions upon millions of times before. He's basically the ultimate tragic villain.

And this is in a show designed for kids. What the fuck.

>> No.23391139


>had Shultz not been a dick they all would've made it out alive and fine


While he may be a product of the times he was surrounded by counter examples and hypocrisies of his beliefs and refused to see them.

Really, that dog scene is what cemented him into the "evil" category, no matter how much of his views are reflective of the era in which he lived.

To be evil you don't have to go full black, just a really dark grey is enough.

>> No.23391155 [DELETED] 


Oh, I don't disagree that he is less than good, but he really wasn't as evil as they made him out to be. the one real bad thing he does is the dog thing, after the guy ran away. And I don't know that I blame him for being sheltered on that plantation either, if not for his magical negro he wouldn't have known shit was going on.

I still wouldn't put him at anything more than chaotic neutral personally. he could've killed all of them for lying to him, and didn't. Then Django and Shultz fucked it up big time when they didn't have to.

but I'm glad they did because it was badass.

>> No.23391181


> I'm glad they did because it was badass

I seriously thought that gunfight was the end of the movie.

Also, yeah, the flick has ALL THE GREY w/o villains due to identity but villains due to education.

>> No.23391198 [DELETED] 


Same here. seeing the previews I thought "Shit, leonardo dicaprio is gonna be an evil bastard, probably fucking his slaves, killing and raping and maiming everything." and it just ended out he was a smart businessman who got outgunned by two well trained contract killers. If anything Django and Shultz were closer to evil than him IMO.

>> No.23391514

You are a fan of Ayn Rand, aren't you.

>> No.23391590

now there's a villain I think we can all respect

>> No.23393208

I just realized! Shan Yu! That's who Niska was talking about! Sweet evil Jesus...

>> No.23393585

Poor Qilby, he has no way to stop remembering and thinking, no matter what he will always remember. From the moment he is reborn to the moment he dies again he is just continuing his long never ending life. He will never forget anything he's ever done.

Qilby has technically lived for millennia with only small flashes where he could rest in his dofus with his sister and just have a break. He's seen everything on his planet at least 5 times over and it's all the same. Everyone else at least gets to forget and rediscover their world, not Qilby he will forever remember every nook every cranny every single solitary detail and it's driving him mad.

>> No.23394064

Zanetti From infinite space.

Picture here :


He's a technological genius that own his own company. Providing the tech for the whole Large Magellanic cloud armada.

He also Considers his son a worthless failure and makes him know often, created a massive planet sized microwave wave motion cannon that fries anything living within ships while leaving the ship intact, and then uses it on his own nation's ships as a "test", and then subsequently defects to the invading Yugovallian fleet just to see their tech and improve it. He has no redeeming factors.

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