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[ERROR] No.23362847 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

>yfw upon realization that the NewCrons are less evil than the Imperium

>> No.23362876


>> No.23362886

Arn't the necrons technically going through their equivalent of the Great Crusade?

Regaining lost planets and trying to reclaim their golden age and whatnot?

>> No.23362970

I just realised that pretty much every race in 40k is currently in a dark age besides the Tau, Orks and Chaos

>> No.23363040


>> No.23363069


Tyranids are about to get their shit stomped by the necrons so yes, they are in a dark age.

>> No.23363106


Here we go...

>> No.23363173

The future is not the present. If the Tyranids are going to end up in a dark age when the Necrons stomps them that will be in the future. So the Tyranids are currently not in a dark age.

>> No.23363186

Well duh, it's a feudal setting after all

>> No.23363206


The Emperor should have really cut his hair, it looked downright goofy

>> No.23363288

Nope, Necrons are evil.

The Necrontyr started a war of extermination against a peaceful people because the Necrontyr themselves are savage and warlike and this would have led them to extinction.

The Imperium hasn't Holocaust'ed the entirety of its population and fed their souls to evil gods, and then for good measure lobotomized all of them.

The Necrons are the original assholes and they still excel at it. The Imperiums are assholes because they have to, the Necrons are assholes because they want to be.

>> No.23363579

Tau are in a cultural dark age.
Orks will never NOT be at their current level of development, so they're in a tier of stagnation that would make Nurgle proud.
Chaos is 1/4 stagnation, and 1/2 self serving and leeching off other beings for their thrills (through rape or murder). Tzeentch is possibly the only one that could be considered not in a dark age.

Tyranids, being more or less just animals, don't qualify for ages at all. Just levels of growth.

Only Halflings, heretical human worlds that haven't joined Chaos, and Kroot are advancing.

>> No.23364167

Necrons are still really evil, I don't see how they're better than the Imperium. They just have a lot more personality to cope with now, some guys acting decent does not mean that most of them aren't huge assholes.

>> No.23364514

>be a bunch of dicks
>blame the Old Ones for everything
>start War in Heaven
>cause orks, eldar, Chaos, etc.
>unleash the C'tan on the galaxy
>keep 99% of their own race in a mindless zombie state
>regard everyone as being beneath them
>somehow better than the Imperium

>> No.23364553

>Kroot advancing


>> No.23364554


>> No.23364684

Brainboyz era was by all accounts a golden age. They're devolved Krork.
Never has regained the heights it was at in the Horus Heresy.

>> No.23364718

>Never has regained the heights it was at in the Horus Heresy.

Actually it's supposed to be stronger than ever.

>> No.23364730


Abaddon wields more power than Horus.

>> No.23364739

>Halflings advancing
What? They spend their time being indolent layabouts on their paradise worlds, fucking uncontrollably, eating until they vomit, and getting drunk. They advance about as much as a kegger advances.

>> No.23364748

Isn't it just that the Chaos Gods are stronger than ever, but the forces under Abaddon's command are "only" the greatest since the HH?

>> No.23364763

what game are you playing? the reason the imperium hasn't genocided anything because they cant kill enough of them at one time

>> No.23364767

Nope, Abby is supposed to have more dude mens than Horus ever did.

>> No.23364770


Horus nearly conquered Terra
Abaddon cant even get past Cadia


The entirety of Chaos can be defeated by one dude (Draigo) so they are probably weaker than ever

>> No.23364797

>Abaddon cant even get past Cadia

>> No.23364811

He's saying the Imperium hasn't killed all their OWN guys like the Necrons did.
The Imperium wants to kill everything that's not human everywhere forever, but they have a reason.
The Necrons are just assholes.

>> No.23364838


The galaxy is at war, Khorne can't be in a dark age, the blood is flowing everywhere. Khorne is only interested in war, and in the grim dark future there is only war.

>> No.23364860

>Abaddon wields more power than Horus.

Is that what they keep telling you to sell you little plastic men?

Abadabadoo is the greatest failure to grace this setting and this is all the more impressive because he has more resources at his disposal than Horus did.

Enjoy eating shit a cadia til the end of time because you're too stupid to figure out how to take one fucking planet.

>> No.23364878

>Enjoy eating shit a cadia til the end of time

See >>23364797

>> No.23364906

To be fair, the Imperium hasn't killed off it's entire population and fed their souls to evil gods because they need said population alive and fighting the guy's who do want to kill everything in the name of some gods. The latter party is in ideological and religious conflict with the former part, who wants those people alive to serve the higher-ups and worship their god, who is opposed to the gods of the other party.

>> No.23364917


Please do not put all Necrons into the same box, just because YOUR Necrons are assholes don't force MY Necrons to be assholes too.

>> No.23364918

13 failed crusades.

>> No.23364943

Nah, they're pricks too. Your guys may be fucking Santacrons, they still fought a genocidal war simply because they were assholes. No, there are no known Necrontyr who abstained from the War.

>> No.23364945

They weren't failed though.

>> No.23364962

Newcrons are nice chaps, its just the Destroyers that want genocide.

Look at Trazyn he is a cheeky chappie a so random ecksdee troll, he's not so bad.

>> No.23364964

>doesn;t realize that they lost over half their fleet navigating out of the eye without the Cadian gate to stablize themselves.

all incursions outside of cadia are tiny, tiny actions to do jack all (and accomplish just that). The gates are needed to pose a real threat to the Imperium; and after 10,000 the blessings of the dark gods and and more manpower than Horus himself, failbaddon is still just getting his ass kicked by Cadians.

>> No.23365005

>They weren't failed though.

Right, they just didn't accomplish anything.

We have to stay positive, no negative nancies allowed in the eye of terror.

>> No.23365014

Trazyn is mobilizing for a great war, remember.

Also Trazyn is the rival of Imotekh the STORMLORD which means he plots to become the ruler of the united Necron Empire and crush all before him.

>> No.23365047

>Right, they just didn't accomplish anything.

They did though, each served to weaken the Imperium, and we know he got at least a cool sword and some doomsday weapons out of them too.

>> No.23365049


Well all humans fight in a genodical war against Chaos and Xenos so they are not any better than Necrons.

>> No.23365067

They retconned that with the Crimson Path strategy or whatever it's called. Also, he got some neat shit from the previous crusades.

>> No.23365126

They're not MY necrons, they simple THE necrons.

The whole reason for the War in Heaven is now a political one. The phaerons needed a common enemy, so they pointed at the foreigners and said "they're the reason who your lives are shit" and then they went to war. And when they got their noses bloodied, they turned to the C'tan. And the War was the reason we got orks and eldar, who in turn fucked up the warp and created Chaos. And the codex alone is filled with quotes of necrons belittling other races. And majority of Necron forces aren't that different from automatons.

Whole setting exists because the necrons were a bunch of dicks.

>> No.23365181

Chaos and Xenos are 150% complete douchewads. Mankind doesn't hate them for no reason.

>> No.23365200

the Silent King (supreme leader of the Necrons) repented of his actions

he also allied himself with Blood Angels

>> No.23365234

Too bad nobody listens to him anymore.

>> No.23365264

Yeah they do. He has a large power base built around the Thokt Dynasty.

>> No.23365275

>yfw upon realization that the NewCrons are less evil than the Imperium
Technically it depends on the lord. There are probably Lords that make the Imperium look like go-lucky happy fun time.

But yes, the newcron's potential to be the most noblebright faction in 40k, even more than the Tau has been mentioned many time

>> No.23365282


So a bunch of corrupt leaders embarked on a pointless war, so what. Same as every other race.

> And the codex alone is filled with quotes of necrons belittling other races.

No different to any other codex.
Except there are also accounts of Necrons allying with other races and even having some feelings for them (Trazyn likes that Inquisitor chick and describes Robot Girlyman as an old friend)

Necrons aren't any worse than everyone else, they just did it first.

>> No.23365290

Necrons were, and still are, dicks. They're still lightyears behind professionnal shitcock like Eldars of any kind.

And the Emperor wasn't exactly nice either.

>> No.23365292

That's probably why they call him the Silent.

>> No.23365305

Trazyn is also a master liar. His message to Valeria was 50% Trollism, 50% Boredom, 0% Niceness.

>> No.23365327

During the black crusades, apart from causing untold damage to hundreds, if not thousands of worlds, there's also various key installations destroyed, Abaddon got his sword, the blackstone fortresses were activated and used to blow up a few suns, the planet killer was used, several Marine chapters have been crippled in them, etc.

You're assuming their goal was to destroy the Imperium in one go. That's like saying all Imperial crusades are useless as Chaos/heretics/aliens still exist. Some crusades were simply to weaken the Imperium or gain areas of space/artifacts, such as the blackstone fortresses.

>> No.23365353

>(Trazyn likes that Inquisitor chick and describes Robot Girlyman as an old friend)

He attempts to trap the Inquisitor in a pokeball forever and and is clearly mocking Cato when talking about Rowboat. Trollzyn is polite but totally insincere.

>> No.23365358

Except the Triach and the Praetorians?

He seeks to enslave a chosen race and use them as vessels for the Necrons return to flesh. But it's too late, the majority of the Necrons have lost their memories and personality forever and the few which still retain their selves are standing on the brink of insanity (If they didn't fall already).

He is still an evil asshole. And even if succeed in his quest, his crimes will forever haunt the Necrons and the entire galaxy.

>> No.23365385

>Except the Triach

The Triarch is gone, save for the Silent King himself.

>> No.23365393

>His message to Valeria was 50% Trollism, 50% Boredom, 0% Niceness.
Care to post a scan of the message?

>> No.23365425

Why does it always come to this? First someone says "yeah, your faction is way worse than my faction", then it's proven the faction is pretty shitty and we get "well, yeah, but they're not like any worse than your faction." Then why make the claim they're better in the first place?

Jesus, people, it's not rocket science: Everyone in 40k is terrible. Everyone. In different ways, but equally terrible.

>> No.23365430

>Some crusades were simply to weaken the Imperium or gain areas of space/artifacts, such as the blackstone fortresses.

All of which were stolen or destroyed by Necrons or the Imperium before abadabadoo ran away like a little bitch everytime.

I know for a fact they lost all the swords of Vaul and all but 2 Black stone fortresses (which didn't help them much against the necrons in the gothic sector anyway)

>> No.23365460

tfw you thought you'd never use it again and deleted it this morning.

I made another though, just for you.

>> No.23365469

Can't do that, no scanner and no .pdf. Some good soul might do it for me.

The message basically translate to "Hey chick, thanks for sending me all those free prisonners. As a reward, here have a pokeball. P.S.: At least try to avoid getting trapped in said pokeball, you tard."

>> No.23365477

>Trazyn likes that Inquisitor chick
To be fair there is a lot to like about inquisitorial Chicks...

>> No.23365492

>Trazyn is also a master liar.

He's really not, he just likes to think he is.

>These occurrences go some way to explain why Trazyn rarely travels under his own name, but with his true identity concealed by pseudonym. Alas, whilst he fancies these names to be masterful attempts at deception, all are simply plucked from ancient Necron myth or fabled literature, such as Nemesor Koschai or Thantekh the Deathless. That Trazyn is rarely discovered before he is ready to make his move, therefore, says rather more about the insular nature and selective knowledge of other Necron nobles than it does his own aptitude for subterfuge.

>> No.23365495

>Necrons aren't any worse than everyone else, they just did it first.

Takes a special kind of evil to genocide your whole race and rise them from the dead as mindless servants to continue your ''pointless war'' against a peaceful race who just wanted to be left alone.

Necrons are the worst of the worst.

>> No.23365515

That still leaves 2 fortresses for Chaos and 0 for the Imperium. And a few billion Imperial lives lost and gothic sector in turmoil.

>> No.23365557

At least in the old fluff Old Ones were being the assholes and denying to help the Necrontyr and when the Necrontyr tried force, got beaten back. No galaxy spanning empire of a few million worlds living happily under the Old Ones' noses or anything like that.

>> No.23365610

Thank you anon, you are too kind.

>> No.23365619

>At least in the old fluff Old Ones were being the assholes and denying to help the Necrontyr and when the Necrontyr tried force, got beaten back.

That happened in the new fluff too, the Necrontyr had always been pissed that the Old Ones wouldn't share immortality with them.

>> No.23365623

Well, they didn't thought it was genocide when they did it. They understood that a bit too late.

Plus, the Old Ones engineered whole races as slaves. I guess "good" was already a severely rare commodity in Warhammer -20K.

>> No.23365634

It's not that I don't love all of you, I just love your stuff even more.

>> No.23365655

Actually it's only the new codex which explicitly says that the Old Ones refused to show the Necrontyr their secrets. Though it is possible that's what happened in the old version too.

>> No.23365691


Oldcrontyr started the war on the get go. They found the Old Ones and were driven into murderous rage by their jealousy. I don't think the Old Ones had a chance to open their mouths before the Oldcrontyr started shooting them.

Funny thing is...

The War in Heaven would have started even if the Old Ones shared their secrets.

>> No.23365725

Stuff is indeed great, but what good is material wealth if you don't have material beings to share it with?

I think Lord Captcha shares your intrest...

>> No.23365731

>That still leaves 2 fortresses for Chaos and 0 for the Imperium. And a few billion Imperial lives lost and gothic sector in turmoil.

drop in the bucket for the Imperium, friend.
You don't win a galactic war with casualties.

Plus the gothic sector has a very negligible impact on the war at large and the Fortresses really aren't as powerful as the resources Abadabadoo lost trying to secure them.

>> No.23365741

>The War in Heaven would have started even if the Old Ones shared their secrets.

Maybe not, they wouldn't all have hated the Old Ones so much, so nobody would have attacked the Old Ones and leave themselves vulnerable to separatists.

>> No.23365773


Tau aren't bad though. The Eldar had a glorious history as well, up until the decadence that led to the fall.

>> No.23365801

>I'm behind seven proxies
You're still just a NEET runner.

>> No.23365812

>The War in Heaven would have started even if the Old Ones shared their secrets.

Yeah the necrotyr were scapegoating their fractured empire by blaming an external power.
They would use any excuse necessary to unite the dynasties.

They only chose the Old Ones because they were the only power to rival their own at the time.

>> No.23365834

No worries, I already stole myself for that purpose.

>> No.23365836

>The Eldar had a glorious history as well, up until the decadence that led to the fall.

So glorious they were too busy to wipe out the Necrons while they slept.

>Of all the galaxy’s major powers, only the Eldar see the Necrons for the threat they truly are - and even they cannot be sure how many Tomb Worlds slumber in the darkness. After the War in Heaven, the Eldar took up a silent watch for any sign of Necron re-emergence, and set watch on worlds they suspected of nurturing hidden tombs. Many such worlds were seeded with life and adopted as homes by outcasts and Exodites, whose descendants would maintain the vigil. Where this was not possible, suspected Tomb Worlds were marked on a great crystal map so that their locations would not be lost. Yet as time passed, the Eldar became distracted by their own plights and thus forgot their sworn duty. By the time of the Fall – the terrible birth of Slaanesh – the slumbering Necrons had been all but forgotten. Only in the Black Library and amongst a few outspoken segments of Eldar society did the vigil continue.

>> No.23365856

The Immortality thing was just a flimsy excuse to start the war. They needed the war to unite the Necrontyr race and save their empire. They would have found an equally flimsy excuse to start this genocidal war.

Thankfully the Old ones did not give the Necrontyr their secrets. Who wants to fight a race of savagely warlike and IMMORTAL race of assholes?

>> No.23365877

Yes, we all know the eldar are incompetent, there is no reason to rub their faces in it.

>> No.23365880

>Tau aren't bad though
The Tau said, as he quietly silenced any dissenters

>> No.23365882


>equally terrible

Say that to my face gue'la not over the Warp see what happens.

>> No.23365917

>Thus began the second iteration of the Wars of Secession, more widespread and ruinous than any that had come before. So fractured had the Necrontyr dynasties become by then that, had the Old Ones been so inclined, they could have wiped them out with ease.

Truly the Old Ones' kindness was their undoing.

>> No.23365923

>Thankfully the Old ones did not give the Necrontyr their secrets. Who wants to fight a race of savagely warlike and IMMORTAL race of assholes?

They become immortal anyway so it's moot point, the only difference is now they are completely severed from the influences of the warp.

>> No.23365938

In the new codex the war began because the empire was in disarray and they needed a common enemy to unite all the Necrontyr. The Old Ones' refusal to help was just an excuse.

Necrons always started it, no doubt about it, but Oldcrons were being mad for being short lived and not getting any of that longevity from the Old Ones, while Newcrons used the lack of help simply as an excuse to sort out internal problems.

I do remember reading about, long before the Newcron codex, that the Necrontyr hoped the Old Ones' knowledge of genetic engineering could fix their species in which short life and illness was natural part of. But the Old Ones were far too busy with their warp studies to worry about some little race buzzing about.

>> No.23365940

> Behead those who say Islam is violent.jpg

>> No.23365965


>oh no they sterilized a relatively small number of humans
>meanwhile the Inquisition kills billions of people every week

Gue'la please.

>> No.23365978

Never show kindness to the undeserving, or else it's gonna come back and bite you on the tail. That's the lesson of the Old Ones story.

>> No.23365996


The destruction of their race? Their slavery to the C'tan? The devastation of the universe?!

>> No.23366026

It's probable that they just cannot give immortality to necrontyr, as it probably related to their immense warp abilities. I think it's like numenorean being mad at valars, they just can't do anything but their are mad at them anyway.
Though Old Ones were known for engineering species and using them, so they may not have being evil as far as we know but I think we can guess they had at least galaxy-sized ego.

>> No.23366052


The Inquisition has the same mentality, only on a GALACTIC scale. The Tau have only sterilized/executed a comparative handful of humans.

>> No.23366109

>Implying I was talking about sterlization
>Implying the Tau wouldn't be destroyed without an Inqusition if it was actually a size that mattered and isn't saved only by its tiny human population

>> No.23366195

Oh don't give me that. Chaos will leak through if it found a hole. It doesn't matter where it is, a hole is a hole, and Chaos will use it.

The Tau do have a sizable and growing population of humans in their Empire, and yet no Daemons crawling everywhere. I thought it was the Inquisition's harsh policies and pysker policing that kept the Imperium safe-ish from Chaos. Apparently that's not the case.

>> No.23366301

6e Page 167
"Civilizations that persecuted the the recently developed psykers fared best. The Civilizations that encouraged psyker development were destroyed all-together".

Either the Tau shoot their psykers or they have an Emperor-Tier psychic being to bind their psyker's souls to.

Though the Tau are actually protected by their warp-and-reality bending plot armor

>> No.23366310

Do Ethereals really have the ability to still the warp or is it somebody's fanfic? Because if so the implications are pretty massive, they could stabilize alpha psykers and let navigators navigate on easymode. If it were so, the Telepathica and the Navis are going to capture and breed ethereal slaves for this ability alone.

>> No.23366360


Ethereals have nothing to do with the Warp and can't influence it in anyways. The only thing strange about them is that they are highly immune to corruption.

The humans are not the only Pyskers in the Tau Empire, by the way.

Maybe those Space floating Polar bears are training the human Pyskers and helping them control their powers.

>> No.23366416

>human Pyskers and helping them control their powers.
Human psykers cant do that yet.
6e rulebook page 163
"The Master of Mankind knows he must survive, he must live forever necessary, or until such a time as psychic humans have evolved to the point where they have sufficient strength to withstand the dangers of the warp without him"

>> No.23366466

Where does it say that they are resistant to corruption? Are the Tau the space halflings?

>> No.23366484

It could be argue that the inquisitorial treatment of psykers encourage them (or their relatives) to hide to avoid the Inquisition. And that it's when they are off the radar that they may fall in chaos cult hands or somehow become dangerous.
I easily imagine tau treating the question as a medical thing. So suppress the psychic potential before it really emerge. For your dose of grimdark, thing of a chemical straightjacket. But as it's a medical thing, to "help" psykers against their "issue", people will be more cooperatives. So they will catch more efficiently potential psykers, however for those who get dangerous anyway, Inquisition do the job better.
Pure fanon, but I think it would be coherent with both Imperium an tau themes.

>> No.23366568

I think that quote is about is Emperor protecting humanity from being instantly consumed by Chaos. His protection would still extend to the humans in the Tau Empire.

Pyskers can function and learn to control their powers as seen in the fluff. It's the clueless pyskers which are more at risk of exploding into daemons.

Fire Warrior Novel.

A Greater Daemon of Tzeentch fails to corrupt an Ethereal and describes his efforts like waves breaking on a solid wall. He commented that it would take centuries to break the Ethereal.

>> No.23366638

>I think that quote is about is Emperor protecting humanity from being instantly consumed by Chaos
The whole bit about "no space, no time, only chaos" is page 137.

Though I admit redundancy and rephrasing is certainly possible.

is also possible

>> No.23366639

>Fire Warrior novel

Ignored. Any real sources?

>> No.23366685

Fire warrior is a real source and unless BL does more on Tau, it's our only source

>> No.23366713

Nothing else.

I have no idea why you would ignore the best piece of Tau fluff ever written.

>> No.23366857

Would someone please explain to me why a guy with no arms needed a sword?

>> No.23366893

To jam it into one of his stumps.

>> No.23366932

Sounds like a sucky greater daemon of tzeench to me. Giving up just becuase it would take centuries? He clearly lacks the patience for things to go JUST AS PLANNED.

>> No.23366940

New tau book...march 26th if I remember right. Last Cain book had a preview. Gueva'sa with a female shas'ui

>> No.23367091

Not just any Greater Daemon of Tzeentch. He was an all powerful Daemonlord who can summon the power of the Four Gods of Chaos. He wasted all his ''Just as Planned'' points on escaping the Eldar prison.

To be fair to him, He was pressed for time and really needed a host. The human sacrifice proved too weak as the taint of Chaos turned him into a spawn, and the Ethereal sacrifice was useless due to his high resistant.

He had a backup plan just in case the primary sacrificial hosts failed, but Kais blew it up in his face.

>> No.23367118

you meant Khorne blew it up

>> No.23367154

when they revolted they took half the imperium with it, half of EVERYTHING, the imperium of man was destabilized n shit nigga, so when horus got his ass popped they all ran into that fly eye to keep from erryone shootin em up, so they made their own little imperium of chaos cause the E of M did it so well the first time and they figured "fuck son, i can do that" and so they did

>> No.23367285

Nope, Kais did.

The aspects of the Chaos Gods left the Daemonlord. Only the Shrine of Khorne remained, The Daemonlord begged Khorne for aid and Khorne answered transforming him into a huge daemon of Khorne. This is when Kais sanity totally broke and he fell into Khornate rage.

Luckly, Kais's sergeant contacted him through his helmet and snapped him out of it by revealing the truth about his father. Then in a second Kais was no longer affected by the Khornate rage. Even the Daemon was shocked how Kais managed to throw off the taint. Moments later Kais blew up the Shrine of Khorne leaving the Daemon weakened which allowed the Tau suits to tear the Daemon apart.

Damn....it was so intense!

>> No.23368489

And in due time that will probably bite them in the ass. Sooner or later a Word Bearer or something else is going to show up and ask to be allowed to spread their religion in the Tau Empire. Or an Alpha level psyker will be born among the humans in Tau space.

Either way it will lead to stuff they're not ready to handle. Especially since several of their allies can be corrupted by the warp.

>> No.23370461


Fucking loved that book. Could really identify with the protagonist because he too had a disapproving father.

>> No.23372034

Surely you forgot a "Never' and misspelled "Godly" my loyal citizen?

>> No.23373619

The only thing I like about the newcrons are the Lychguard

t's about time the Necrons got their version of Space Marines.

>> No.23374077

I wouldn't say best, the codexes are pretty pimp too. The rewritten novel where Kais goes full Khorne is just sad. In the original one it was more mysterious, whispers at the back of his mind and a strange urge pushing him forth, not bashing in someone's head and screaming "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!" at the top of his lungs.

>> No.23374115

That's only because Xeno singlehandedly makes up for all their meanness.

>> No.23374120


Tau know about Chaos cults and Word Bearers, and how to handle them.

>> No.23375145

The Necrons need their own novel that tells the story from their point of view.

A book about a Lychguard kill-team would we awesome

>> No.23375176

Necrons get pov stuff in Fall of Damnos and Hammer and Anvil.

>> No.23375315


Orks do advance a bit though... Didn't a random crazy mekboy invent Gargants relatively recently in the 40k timeline?

>> No.23375381

Every faction is less evil than the Imperium

>> No.23375420


>> No.23375451

Yep. Even Chaos is just following their instincts/trying to be free of the Imperium, depending on which sect of Chaos you look at.

>> No.23375486

No, Chaos wants to end all life as we know it as well as space and time.

>> No.23375497

Actually, I'm fairly sure that's the one thing that would permanently destroy Chaos, so no, that's not what it wants. Chaos wants to keep the galaxy around to keep feeding off of it.

>> No.23375503

So they claim, but they really dont. Without life, there would be nothing to fuel Chaos. And once again, thats just part of the Eternal Game that their nature forces them to play. The Imperium is willingly evil and the single biggest feeder of Chaos.

Without the Imperium, the galaxy would be a much safer place.

>> No.23375514

The problem is that the great Galactic stasis lock means that nothing will ever advance, you can only retcon in things they already have. That forces supposedly dynamic races like Tau and Orks to rev up but without giving them anywhere to go.

Don't mind me, I'm just bitter about Eye of Terror retcons still. The thread we had a few weeks ago just reopened all the old wounds.

>> No.23375522

How about you actually read the fluff from the rule book?

>So they claim, but they really dont.

No, so GW claim, and so they really do. Being xenophobic is as much human nature as being an asshole is a God's.

>> No.23375896

>safer place

Nobody to keep the orks in check, nobody to fight off all the Tyranids, nobody to challenge the rise of the Necrons... Sure, what ever you say, boss. After the Eldar fell the galaxy was a mess.

Every race is egotistic bunch of pricks that thinks they should run the show. Orks are the toughest and the meanest, Necrons and Eldar regard everyone else as beneath them, even the Tau convert everyone they meet to serve their goals, their "greater good". Imperium isn't being evil for the sake of evil, they're doing it to protect the whole. They've had thousands of years time to see some shit and what they got now is the stuff that works. It can be harsh, but how is, say, purging a planetary population to root out corruption (which if left unchecked could decimate whole sectors) more evil than Eldar sacrificing a whole system to protect a craftworld?

>> No.23375979

well that's the human followers, which is kind of stupid, why would gods limit themselves to one species?

>> No.23375996

Actually, the Imperium is a barely functional piece of crap that survives mainly by inertia. Granted, its size is a useful barrier against other enemies, but that was achieved by none of the Imperium's own merits, but by the Emperor, and pre-Imperium human societies. The Imperium is riddled with terrible flaws that impede its functioning on billions of levels, and full of people who perpetuate those flaws because it benefits them personally somehow.

>> No.23376005

>well that's the human followers

No, it's the Gods and Daemons.

>> No.23376107

why would the gods tell them to kill everything if it means less potential worshipers?

>> No.23376124

They don't care. The galaxy is a fancy they want.

>> No.23376155

that's stupid, the chaos gods existed ever since emotion did, why would they suddenly decide that they are human gods?

>> No.23376174

They haven't. They're going to consume the galaxy.

>> No.23376176

The thing is, Emprah was born and raised in 9th millennium BCE in Central Anatolia. Now, human brain "matures" only until about 25 or so years. Much of your personality, your beliefs, your attitudes, etc. remain essentially unchanged from that point onwards. Yes, I know, he was the gestalt consciousness of thousands of shamen and medicine men, but still. In that age, knowledge was a secret to be guarded, ignorance was the solution against temptation, and we all know how well that works (cf. the sex education in the US), or rather, not worked, because Horus & co. were easy pickings for Chaos because they did not know the relevant facts about it (like your soul consumed and other FUN! stuff).

The Imperium today is born out of ignorance, what it does is part due to Emprah's own bigotry and part due to negative experiences. However, many other races in the galaxy should know better, but are still just as bad or worse.

More evil than the Empire:
Necrons: want to exterminate! exterminate! exterminate! all organic life, despite being able to scale stairs.
Eldar (all flavours): despise all younger races as "Mon-Keigh" even though they are themselves just lab rats cut loose and were largely responsible for unleashing Chaos. Will gladly trade one billion sentient aliens for one of theirs.
Chaos: actively seeks to corrupt and destroy everything. GRIMDARK!

Roughly as evil:
Tau: manifest destiny up to eleven, join us or die - except that they themselves are manipulated into this (jury is still out whether it was the -=]|[=-, the Eldar, or the Necrons that hastened their evolution, created the Ethereals, and still pull their strings).
(Kr)Ork: Although they yearn for constant violence, they can coexist peacefully, just as long as those aliens recognize their superiority.
Tyranids: OM NOM NOM. From an objective point of view they are True Neutral, having no concept of good and evil. Too bad if you happen to be what they recognize as "Food".

>> No.23376213

but then no life = no worshipers = no chaos this is so generic it doesn't even work for chaos's goals

>> No.23376239

Chaos doesn't need life. The fluff is very clear, "no space, no time, only Chaos."

>> No.23376248

>Necrons: want to exterminate! exterminate! exterminate! all organic life, despite being able to scale stairs.

The Necron don't want to do that. Oldcron and Newcrons don't aim to exterminate all life.

Seriously, this utter ignorance of Necron fluff should be made a crime and you should be FLAYED alive.

>(Kr)Ork: Although they yearn for constant violence, they can coexist peacefully, just as long as those aliens recognize their superiority.

And by being their short lived slaves?

>> No.23376250

what? this is contrary to everything I've read, where are you reading this?

>> No.23376285

The rule book. Chaos might have been spawned from emotion, but there's nothing really suggesting they need it to sustain themselves. Even if they did, it's only one galaxy in one universe.

>> No.23376325

is this a recent rule book?

>> No.23376335

Chaos is universal, you know, that's a fact.

This galaxy is just one little playground in the Great Game of Chaos which will decide the fate of all existence.

>> No.23376340

Reiterated recently in 6e rule book, but it's older fluff than that.

>> No.23376342

It's both in the 6ED and 5ED rulebook.

6ED is the current Rulebook.

>> No.23376347

Old Daemon Codex too.

>> No.23376366

I thought Chaos was more nuanced than this

>> No.23376387


You can only blame yourself.

>> No.23376397

>More manpower than Horus itself.
>More manpower than Half the galaxy.

C'mon, chaos is dangerous, but it's a viking raid on communist china. Sure, it can wreck a lot of shit fast, but they cannot project an invasion force.

>> No.23376403

You're wrong, Chaos is the greatest threat.

>> No.23376406

is there something wrong with assuming writers are half way competent?

>> No.23376411

Yes. Assuming makes you an ass.

>> No.23376425

Chaos as a corruption force who can appear anywhere is a threat. Chaos military forces can be controlled more or less. You don't need to increase your recruitment by a 200% just like with the tyrannids.

>> No.23376450

Wrong, Black Crusades make the Imperium shit itself and many Marine chapters are mobilised. Nids have been manhandled twice by the Ultramarines.

>> No.23376468

Say that to Kryptman.

>> No.23376478


i thought emps just got reborn as the star child if he died though

>> No.23376488

Actually, pretty much all chaos fluff suggest that. However, nothing ever allow us to think Chaos gods have the slightest influence outside this galaxy.
Chaos gods (and all daemons) are born from emotions, are powered by emotions and weakened when those emotions weakened.
When the eldar switch from their old way to what GW think hedonism is, their old gods were weakened and Slaanesh start to grow.

How about >>23376335, you may ask ? Well, it's shitty new retcon going against both old fluff where the Emperor was just helping the Astronomicon and where the material world naturally reject warp energy (which is why daemons can't remains in there for long) and new fluff where the Emperor has the bonus role of keeping the Terra warp portal close.

But I guess it wasn't "heroic" enough, and the fact that even the bad guy couldn't win was too "subtle".

>> No.23376498

Nope. The Star Child is already there, IF he gets reborn it's supposed to be Emprah II.

>> No.23376520

>Actually, pretty much all chaos fluff suggest that.

No it doesn't. It makes them stronger, but they don't need it to exist.

>However, nothing ever allow us to think Chaos gods have the slightest influence outside this galaxy.

Warhammer Fantasy. They exist in multiple realities, never mind just galaxies.

>> No.23376580

At best Warhammer Fantasy is in the same galaxy. At worst, the position of GW for the last decade is that they have nothing in common, and just happen to have the same daemons (yep, we're talking about GW for sure).

>> No.23376639

Nope, they're different, but the Realms are common to both. There's even multiple versions such as Blood Bowl, and the alternate realities seen by Gotrek and Felix in the Paths of the Old Ones.

>> No.23376701

Newcrons seem strange.

Why would they all just go take a nap?

It seems like they could have done something less fatal to their race, like play hide and seek in some asteroids or something.

>> No.23376719

It would be pretty funny if Fantasy was just a crappy planet in some formerly Imperial territory.

GW needs to spice up Fantasy.

>> No.23376741

The weakest point of necron fluff to me. Sleeping isn't a good defensive strategy.

>> No.23376742


Some WH40k weapons existed in older FB editions as magical weapons.

>> No.23376762


There used to be plasma weapons and stuff like that as magical weapons in older FB editions.

>> No.23376766

Hiding and keeping your power levels down is. Necron shit can apparently be detected from far away.

>> No.23376811

GW position is that there is no link between the 2 games, as stupid it may sound.
And I say 2 games because Blood Bowl is now a video game and that make it irrelevant for some reasons.

GW was making a multiverse at it's beginning, but have now drop the idea. 40k as ONE material universe, and the warp where you can create as much as chaos realms you want but they will still be in the warp.

>> No.23376817

Somewhere it is mentioned that, if the ruinous powers would succeed in corrupting the galaxy, they would also seize to exist, because nothing would be there to experience the emotions they consist of.

>> No.23376829

But I mean, why not just go take a trip into the galactic void?

They're unconditionally immortal, right?

(Of course the real answer to that is because it's too similar to the Tyranids, but really, you can do better GW.)

>> No.23376840


It's probably best to think of the Ruinous Powers as self-destructive parasites.

I mean, probably only Tzeentch wouldn't just outright fuck everyone to death.

>> No.23376843

>GW position is that there is no link between the 2 games

It's not. In the WD that the daemon books came out they said the Daemons were the same entities.

Current fluff disagrees.

>> No.23376855

65 million years is a long time to sit about doing nothing in Space.

>> No.23376870

Well clearly they'd go get stronger or something.

Considering they chose to do exactly that, sit around underground and do nothing.

>> No.23376901

>Well clearly they'd go get stronger or something.

They can, no more Crons, no mats in the void.

>Considering they chose to do exactly that

They went to sleep, boring time spent awake was close to zero.

>> No.23376915

Dude, they could just go do research or something.

Taking a nap is probably the worst thing an ancient and powerful race, victor of two epic wars, could have done.

>> No.23376929

Research with what? Vast emptiness? Their tech was king and remained so, and the royals would hardly be willing to abandon their territory.

>> No.23376946

Research with the stuff they brought with them on their ships of course.

Their tech obviously wasn't the best if Space Marines can gun them down for fun.

DAoT Humans could ream their asses.

>> No.23376974

>Research with the stuff they brought with them on their ships of course.

Like what? And enough for 65 million years? What about the guys who don't give a shit, like the everyone one who isn't a Cryptek?

>Their tech obviously wasn't the best if Space Marines can gun them down for fun.

But it is the best, Marines are simply better soldiers.

>DAoT Humans could ream their asses.

Hardly, their weapons of war got put down by a bunch of humans inexperienced at war.

>> No.23377032


Are you seriously arguing that an entire race taking a nap was better than researching new technology?

Look, you can like the story and what not, but if you're trying to seriously rationalize this obvious work of fiction, you're doing it wrong.

Further, DAoT humans literally built their own Necrons. The Men of Iron.

>> No.23377054

Man, they definitely could have done some productive research in the void, on basically everything.
They literally chose to do nothing.
Pretty much anything was a better choice than that.
They guys that didn't care could, uhm, take a nap?

It's a whole race of sentient beings, man.

>> No.23377055

>Are you seriously arguing that an entire race taking a nap was better than researching new technology?

Yes. Now they're in a better position to take the galaxy, as they are already set up in it, and still have a clear technological advantage.

>Further, DAoT humans literally built their own Necrons. The Men of Iron.

They failed horrendously. Necrons > Man of Iron.

>> No.23377070

Though I agree with you about the napcron, I must warn you about assuming too much about DAoT.

>> No.23377081


No. No. Going for naptime was by no means better that leaving for the edge of the galaxy and watching through a telescope for the right time to strike AS ONE COHESIVE FORCE.

Even if you have some pathological resistance to understanding the concept of technological research, since they clearly didn't understand Warp Tech in their whole story.

>> No.23377088

>Man, they definitely could have done some productive research in the void, on basically everything.

No, they couldn't keep organic beings around, we've seen that they need those.

>They literally chose to do nothing.

They chose to wait it out because they knew that the future Eldar were fucked.

>They guys that didn't care could, uhm, take a nap?

And so they did, but they did also not abandon their territories.

>> No.23377107


Meh, DAoT is lored to be better than the Imperium tech wise.

Since the Necrons are on equal footing with the Imperium...

That implies stuff.

>> No.23377118

>No. No. Going for naptime was by no means better that leaving for the edge of the galaxy and watching through a telescope for the right time to strike AS ONE COHESIVE FORCE.

Except that wouldn't happen because the Silent King broke the protocols binding them all together.

Their technology was and is superior to everybody else's, so they don't need to advance it.

>> No.23377131

>Since the Necrons are on equal footing with the Imperium...

They aren't though, Necrons are far more technologically advanced.

>> No.23377133

>because the Silent King broke the protocols binding them all together.

Itself a stupid implausible action.

If their tech was better than everyone and everything, why couldn't they beat the Eldar? :)

>> No.23377142

>implying 200% recruitment rate will be enough
Some Inquisitor, might've been Kryptman, started yelling about how they had to conscript every living Imperial in the Ultima Segmentum if they were going to save humanity from being eaten.

>> No.23377156

>Itself a stupid implausible action.

Why? He felt that he had failed them all and wasn't worthy to command.

>If their tech was better than everyone and everything, why couldn't they beat the Eldar? :)

Numbers, and being busted up after killing two races of gods.

>> No.23377171


I kinda think you're just using that word to use that word.

It's supposed to mean something:

If their vehicle armor is no better than Dark Eldar shields or regular Imperial Steel, they've got stuff they could improve.

Explain why they're so slow. That's a lack of tech other races have.

>> No.23377181

>Since the Necrons are on equal footing with the Imperium...
u wot m8

>> No.23377200

In game it's for balance purposes. In game a bolter and a gauss flayer have about the same stats, but that doesn't mean the gauss flayer isn't much more advanced.

>> No.23377210

>Explain why they're so slow
Because their instantaneous travel was too imbalanced, so they decided to go slow to give other races a fighting chance. The same reason they havent exploded the universe yet.

>> No.23377219


Dude, you can gloss over anything with that.

"He felt bad, so he killed everything."

"Our tech is the BEST. Buuuut some crappy race whose infinitely superior daddy we just thrashed outnumbers us. So we can't win."

You're just like derping through storylines instead of actually trying to think up something you know, realistic.



"I got mad and smashed console."

>> No.23377225

You're kind of forgetting one thing.

Once the Necrons notice that the Tyranids are wrecking their play-things, the Tyranids are dead. FUCKING DEAD.

Already dead. Double dead.

Because the Tyranids can't detect the Necrons before it's too late. When the Necrons are in visual range.

On top of that, any Tyranid force fighting Necrons will starve to death, or end up having half their bodies teleport away as soon as the Necrodermis that was metabolized activates on the command of a Tomb World and teleports back home.

If the Imperium can survive that long, the Tyranids are no more a problem.

Remember, Tyranids were in this galaxy before! Before mankind!

And all those early Tyranids went EXTINCT. Leaving only a few mutant strains of wild Tyranids without Hivemind connection on a few planets, like that giant scorpion on Catachan.

>> No.23377230

in the Fall of Damnos novel, Guass Weapons laugh at the concept of Powered Armor

>> No.23377235

It is plausible. Guy felt unworthy of his station and stood down, Necrons used time as a weapon and went to sleep to wait out the storm of angry elfs.

>> No.23377239

Eldar were pretty terrifying back then. Virtually immortal wizards who spawned psychic weapons just by their collective conscious thought. On top of that they reincarnated whenever killed, so they would accumulate more experience in battle every time they come back to life. And then they had their psychic powers that were possibly even more powerful than what they have now. Also, for a good while there they had a monopoly on the Webway. After a few generations of fighting it's not inconceivable that veteran Eldar would be something beastly to face in battle.

>> No.23377242

This is actually a problem a lot of authors have.
They call something "advanced", but in practice, all of it's abilities are crappier than the cheap shit.
That's not "advanced", that's bad authorship.

>> No.23377258

All of that could have been better done by leaving the galaxy.

Why didn't the Eldar just exterminate them all in their sleep if they were that good?

>> No.23377272

The Famous Eldar Incompetence.

>> No.23377273

In the artwork too.

I still remember when the Necrons were introduced.

That image, with some Necron just flaying the shit out of Space Marines, and even blasting clean through a Landraider.

That was sick, that was insane, that was the highest high-tech shit there ever was in 40k.

>> No.23377298

You do realise you're talking about a story for a MINIATURE GAME?

This isn't Homer: The Wargame. Or Hamlet: The RPG.

>> No.23377303

>Why didn't the Eldar just exterminate them all in their sleep if they were that good?

It would probably have been a costly war, sleeping tomb worlds can reactivate, and the Eldar eventually got caught up in their own troubles, and the Necrons were all but forgotten about.

>> No.23377308

>Guy leads his race to victory against two races far superior to his own.
>Feels he betrayed his people in doing so.
>Instead of helping them to be whole again, gets angry, makes them all take a nap, and leaves.

>Oh, and he's an immortal living machine with many years of experience.

>> No.23377309

>Tyranids can't detect the Necrons unless the Necrons are in visual range
So the Tyranids bypass Tomb Worlds because they don't like the smell of them? The Nids can detect Necrons, apparently.

Anyway, the Silent King said himself that the only way the galaxy can withstand the full force of the Tyranid invasion is if the Dynasties, all of them, unite and fight together. As things are now it looks like there's gonna be war between Imotekh and Trazyn, so the odds of a grand coalition of Necrons doesn't look good.

>> No.23377338


Are you GW's apologist?

If they Eldar at their height didn't have something like an Exterminatus, that's implausible.

As is just forgetting about the even race you were created to fight, had been fighting, and who you knew where all their shit was.

"Oh, well since they all went for naptime, I guess we'll just leave them alone then."

>> No.23377341

>>Guy leads his race to victory against two races far superior to his own.
>>Feels he betrayed his people in doing so.

>Literally destroys the soul of his race leaving nothing but mechanical husks

I'd leave too.

>> No.23377379

Eldar empire fractured way before the Fall and is now splintered into several warring factions that fight each other. Necrons are splintered as well. Orks won't run over everyone because they're far too busy fighting each other. The list goes on.

Everyone. Is. Terrible.

>> No.23377380

>Destroys their "soul".
>Still gets angry.

>Doesn't try to help them.
>Gets angry and does nothing.

It's just another "hurr emotions" plot with no substance.

>> No.23377386

There's not really an excuse for that, other than the Eldar not wanting to reawaken the Tomb Worlds, which wouldn't be that much of a problem if they acted competently and destroyed the Dolmen Gates, or just conjured up some Warp storms on the Tomb Worlds.

They had 60 million years to do something about it and they didn't despite having pretty much every strategic advantage on their side, with only the technological advantage being arguable.

>> No.23377391

Yeah, they were no immediate threat. Rather than reignite a war with them, you just keep an eye on their activities, which for 65 million years was nothing. Understandably your attention shifts over the millions of years.

>> No.23377410


Their soullessness is described to be unsettling for Tyranids and other psychically sensitive creatures.

>> No.23377419

>It's just another "hurr emotions" plot with no substance.

It's fucking warhammer 40k, the stores aren't deep, but they're understandable.

>> No.23377424


So, you're fighting and winning a fist fight against an enemy you were created to defeat and who just killed your father.

He falls asleep in the middle of this fight and you say:

"Nah, I'll just let him rest up."

>> No.23377448

So the Tyranids can sense their presence.

>> No.23377452

No, Tyranids avoid Necron worlds because Tomb worlds register as DEAD.


Occasionally, live finds a way on a Tomb World, and Tyranids land, only to be utterly annihilated by an enemy they can't detect without visual contact.

>> No.23377474


Because the Necrons were never originally part of Warhammer, so their appearance needs to be justified.

Same reason why people hated the C'Tan and thought they were shoehorned into the setting

>> No.23377480


Everything's understandable.

Doesn't mean it's plausible, probable, relatable, or engaging.

Napcrons are just stupid, and if you think they're good, I would seriously question your creative abilities.

I mean, I like the Imperium, but I can easily say that The Emperor, a telepath, not knowing about Horus's shit is implausible, and I would personally try to write it to be more engaging, unexpected, and interesting for the reader.

>> No.23377488


Unawakened tomb-worlds would be invisible as there is nothing to register.

An awakened world would register as something abhorrent to them, like a pool of bugspray.

>> No.23377502

You're fighting a wounded but still dangerous enemy, you think you can beat him but in doing so you may very well become crippled and then even die yourself. He runs away and holes up, doing nothing, you watch for him and still nothing. A hundred generation later, and still nothing. You've got better things to do.

>> No.23377503


They can't.

Think of it this way.

Tyranids, or the Hivemind can see in the Warp where all the souls are at.

Where the food is at.

Tyranids KNOW that something has two images.

One is seen with the eyes. The other image is seen with the Hivemind.

Necrons have only one image. The image you see with the eyes.

Half the information is missing. And to ANY kind of entity, no matter how dumb or smart it is, facing a hostile entity with not enough information is ALWAYS UNSETTLING.

>> No.23377559


Oh, of course, the Meta aspect of why it was written this way is fine.

It's the meat of the stuff that's annoying. The actual content.

It could have been done more cleverly.

Even something like "realizing their betrayal, the C'tan unleashed a failsafe shutdown-- the silent king could only stop it by destroying the interlinks between his race, consigning them to temporary slumber, and what he believed eventual death by the Eldar."

I mean, even that, WHILE CLICHE, is more plausible than Voluntary Naptime.

>> No.23377590

They literally took a nap in the middle of a war with the remnants of the Old Ones-- the Eldar.

No chance the Eldar strategists were incompetent enough not to press the assault on an enemy they knew to have been weakened.

>> No.23377621

You could say that the Hivemind is the Tyranid version of the Astronomican, and whenever a Tyranid comes across a Necron, it's like they run into a part of space that shouldn't exist, that suddenly appears before their eyes.

>> No.23377635

"Believing he had doomed his race in this galaxy, he took what remained with him and vowed to start anew. Away from the C'tan and Eldar alike."

>> No.23377661

Well they do have an alliance with the Niccassar, or however that's spelled, who are described as a powerfully psychic species. Maybe they handle the human psy-blow ups.

>> No.23377662

Why not? The enemy isn't building their strength, while you are, but they could still punch you hard in the dick if you try and come at them.

>> No.23377670


Wait, don't the Eldar go around destroying Tombworlds in modern times?

I mean, didn't they destroy some Imperial Explorators so they wouldn't awaken one?


>> No.23377686

It's way too ridiculous. Especially given their present attacks on sleeping tombworlds.

It's the classic literary crutch of "everyone's stupid so I don't have to write well".

>> No.23377697

I never understood this whole Necron soullessness thing. Do rocks and trees freak Tyranids out because they lack a soul? Somebody said it's the intelligence without a soul thing, but Titans can have a mind of their own, several minds of the princepts operating them aren't lucky, and they don't freak Tyranids out with their lack of a soul.

>> No.23377703


Now the Necrons are getting back up, and the Eldar are in a much weaker position than before.
They've got no choice but to attack.

>> No.23377714

The Niccassar are dumb fucking psychic whales.

They can't KILL with their MIND. Which automatically makes them utterly useless hosts to any demon.

>geee, with this body i can fly 100mph and nothing else
>slaanesh, i'm sorry, i tried to possess a good bo-

>> No.23377725

Rocks never had a soul.

Necron had a soul in them once and it was removed. Now there is a void that freaks pyskers out.

>> No.23377728

>implying cyborgs don't have souls

Goddamn, you're retarded. Start thinking before you ask something. Dumbshit.

>> No.23377736

Again, "everyone is stupid, bad at military tactics, and makes terrible decisions, so I don't have to write well".

There is no way the fucking elf wizards at the height of their power wouldn't have exterminatused every tombworld all at once.

They would have put a fleet in orbit around every one, and launched the final salvo of fuck you all at one time.

To say otherwise is to call them stupid, or the author lazy, or both.

>> No.23377744

Quit being dumb. Read this.


It's not about the lack of soul.

It's about the fact that Necrons suddenly appear before Tyranids.

The Tyranids can't remote-view Necrons, like all other races.

It appears to be alive, but it reveals itself as an automated warmachine.

That's what freaks the Tyranids out.

On top of that, eating a Necron is a death sentence.

It's not weird to think that if Tyranids fear anything, they fear Necrons.

>> No.23377746

Necrons have souls, which is why they needed those Pariahs.

>> No.23377747

>They would have put a fleet in orbit around every one, and launched the final salvo of fuck you all at one time.


>> No.23377766


Because you suck dick, faggot cunt.

Grow up. It's a miniature game for eating crisps and drinking lager. Piss off, or stop whining. Fucking fag.

>> No.23377772

Pariahs aren't around anymore.

C'Tan didn't have time to seed Earth with lifeforms.

They were too busy getting sharded.

>> No.23377776

Or the silent king felling really bad about selling the soul of his race try to find a way to reverse the process before what remain of their mind disappear. So he pretty much every one at sleep to protect their mind until he find a solution.

>> No.23377782

>There is no way the fucking elf wizards at the height of their power wouldn't have exterminatused every tombworld all at once.

Says you. It comes down to "Have a war now" or "Have a war later."
I'm pretty okay with the idea that they were sick of war by that stage, and decided to let sleeping dogs go into a generations long coma. Promptly being forgotten about as current threats and cataclysms occured.

>> No.23377784

I actually like the lore of 40k, most of it.

But I don't like people saying "yeah, this is perfectly realistic" about 40k.

That fucking boils the blood.

>> No.23377792


The Codex says the Necrons soullessness freaks out the Tyranids and weakens the Hivemind.

The Tyranids flee from Necrons because they fear their soullessness. And before you say Necron Tomb Worlds don't have life on them, that's a lie. Trayzn Tomb Worlds were rich of life and many other Tomb Worlds in other dynasties have life on them.

>> No.23377803

They seeded life right in the middle of the War.

The Sharding happened at the end of the War.

They HAD TIME or else the Pariah human Assassins won't exist!

>> No.23377808

Creating possessed niccassar is now the new method of the ordo malleus to deal with daemons when they are out of necron crube.

>> No.23377819

No. NO. They were ALREADY fighting a war.

These are fucking elf wizards with cosmic futuretelling psychic powers.

There is literally no way they wouldn't just plan to station instant-win barges in orbit around every Tombworld, and instantly win any war instantly.

If the Necrons couldn't beat the Eldar in a straight up fight, how do you think they'd fare against the FUTURESIGHT Eldar after they'd had about a million years of preparation, planning, and studying the SLEEPING PIECES OF CRAP.

>> No.23377851

There is little fluff about those guys.

Where did you pick all that up?

>> No.23377866

>No. NO. They were ALREADY fighting a war.

When the enemy stops fighting there is no war. They ran away, hid and stopped all industry. The Edar watched them, and over time stopped giving a shit because they weren't doing anything. The Eldar probably expected to be on top forever, the Necrons weren't going anywhere, but the Eldar where strengthening. Why risk it for a non-threatening enemy?

>> No.23377873

>If the Necrons couldn't beat the Eldar in a straight up fight, how do you think they'd fare against the FUTURESIGHT Eldar after they'd had about a million years of preparation, planning, and studying the SLEEPING PIECES OF CRAP.
They already knew that the Eldar were going to birth Slaanesh and fall, and that some smelly monkey was going to engineer some larger, super smelly monkeys, half of which would throw a tantrum because in the end they are dumb, smelly monkeys, and make the whole galaxy easy pickings.
Necrons out-future-sight Eldar. This is canon.

>> No.23377889

I could understand that they couldn't destroy every tomb worlds, but they should have destroy a large part of them. Actually, it wouldn't contradict canon as most tomb worlds are said to not have awaken yet, they may just have been destroyed. The necron might as well be very disillusioned if they realised their "million worlds empire" have been drastically reduced.

>> No.23377893

The Eldar had 60 million years to do something; to do anything. They did next to nothing. It's even stated that primitive races did more damage to the Necron worlds than the Eldar ever did.

>> No.23377896

When the enemy stops fighting, while they are losing, they lose.

Explain why the Eldar, who know or can find where every Tombworld is, didn't exterminatus all of them at once when their enemy stopped resisting.

>> No.23377905

The Silent King had an agenda and it involved the Necrons staying put. Is that so hard to grasp, man?

>> No.23377917

1. Predicting the future isn't 100% guaranteed. Especially once the warp is fucked up.
2. The War in Heaven left the galaxy in a sore state for millennia to come.
3. Eldar weren't exactly at the top of the food chain from the get-go, they had to fight for it.
4. They had no idea how many Necron tomb worlds there were, the Necrons had millions of worlds and many records were surely lost during the war.
5. Eldar had more to do than to chase ghosts, myths and legends.

>> No.23377918


Eldar psychics are lame compared to Necron futuretelling (e.g. Oinkinar the Diviner)

A Farseer gets bamboozled by crons in the Necron codex

>> No.23377924

Yeah, they didn't do much. They didn't care after so long, they had their own shit to deal with rather than finishing off a war they were conscripted into.

>> No.23377937


And a mere Farseer disarms the Warlord of Chaos.

>> No.23377938

His agenda is as implausible as you taking a nap on the beaches of Normandy and hoping the Germans not only fail to kill you, but shoot themselves in the head instead.

It's just not realistic. You can like the story, but thinking it's realistic or probable is a whole different ball of bullshit.

>> No.23377960

>When the enemy stops fighting, while they are losing, they lose.

Unless their enemy has lost the thirst for war.

>Explain why the Eldar, who know or can find where every Tombworld is, didn't exterminatus all of them at once when their enemy stopped resisting.

They didn't want to risk the Necrons waking back up.

>> No.23377965


Based upon Eldar actions in modern times, they are and always were for millions of years, aware of how grave the Necron threat is and was.

It is unrealistic for space wizards not to have nipped this shit in the bud.

>> No.23377988

>Eldar are useless
You surprised?
They deployed a Titan to a remote mining planet only to lose it to some Terminators that happened to stop by looking for Fallen.

>> No.23377992


Fucking CHRIST. Look, just because you think something is smart doesn't make it good writing. We get your proposal and its just as unengaging as the shit you're bitching about; if there was so much for these necrons outside the galaxy, why would they ever come back?

>> No.23378017

Necron Tomb Worlds have Null Field matrices that make them immune to Eldar psychics

the Eldar didnt know where they was

>> No.23378023

There are, at the very least, 2 million Tomb Worlds in the Milky Way, spread over the entire galaxy. The Eldar would have trouble even avoiding these worlds if they traveled the galaxy for 60 million years. And you know what? They didn't avoid the Tomb Worlds. They actually settled on some of them for reasons that are left vague.

>> No.23378027

>Based upon Eldar actions in modern times

Most Eldar barely remember.

>> No.23378029

"I guess the Nazis have lost their thirst for war. Let's let them keep all their shit and go home. Nothing could possible go wrong."

Well they wouldn't risk anyone waking up if they killed them all with overwhelming force all at once, now would they?

That's the idea of spending a million or so years out of that 65 million preparing to BLAST them.

Again, if the Necrons couldn't beat the Eldar in a straight up fight, as the codex says...

What chance would they have against a coordinated surprise assault?

"Oh yeah, the Eldar had other threats to worry about than the greatest threat to the galaxy they have ever known, were created to fight, and deathly fear to this day 65 million years later."

>> No.23378041


I don't even know any Craftworld Eldar who are alive before the fall,except for a rare few that are perhaps Wraithguard or Wraithlords.

Dark Eldar though, are full of Eldar that are more than 10,000 years old.

>> No.23378043

Actually those posts look like they'd keep the Necrons the same, just have something more reasonable for why they went to sleep.

>> No.23378048

>The Eldar would have trouble even avoiding these worlds if they traveled the galaxy for 60 million years.

The galaxy is huge, there are billions of stars, never mind worlds.

>> No.23378064

I love that bit if only because the accompanying art has a fusion pistol doing about as much damage as a laspistol.
I really wish I was around for the collective spanking all the designers got back in the older editions of Eldar.

>> No.23378072

Guys, guys.

Even some shit like "we tricked the Eldar by playing dead through some we're so clever means,"
Would be better than "oh, they just did nothing because."

>> No.23378092

why didnt they Eldar just blow up the planets instead of living on them?

>> No.23378102

If the Nazis totally stopped what they were doing, going into a death like coma, and you were stronger than them and getting stronger, there would be no rush to finish them off.

The Necrons maybe couldn't beat the Eldar, but that doesn't mean they couldn't wound them grievously. And we have no idea if the Edar had close to enough fire power to take the Crons down at once.

>"Oh yeah, the Eldar had other threats to worry about than the greatest threat to the galaxy they have ever known, were created to fight, and deathly fear to this day 65 million years later."

They had other things to do, at one point they were enslaved by the Mon'keigh. In their long hstory they undoubtably waged wars against many other races while the Necrons faded into obscurity.

>> No.23378107

Just so you know.

The Eldar anti-Necron weapons, the Blackstone Fortresses are all destroyed.

The Imperials used them as space stations. Then Chaos used them as orbital cannons.

Then the Imperials and Eldar cooperated to blow all the Blackstone Fortresses up.

The Necrons even showed up to help.

>clever girl...

>> No.23378115

Old fluff had the Enslavers reduce all life in the galaxy to a few scattered embers at the end of the War.

New fluff had the Eldar as an ascendant force with innumerable forces at the end of the War.

The Newer fluff is worse by far.

>> No.23378129

And they had 60 million years and nigh-instantaneous travel capabilities on top of being of an explorative mindset.

>> No.23378138

You people do realise that Eldar history kind of goes like this.

>Golden Age of Eldar Military Power like the Roman Empire
>Golden Age of Eldar Debauchery and Perversion, AKA Eldar USA
>Slaanesh gets birthed
>Eldar Africa

>> No.23378140

Why bother blowing up a planet when you can just blow up the Necrons when they start to wake up?

>> No.23378161

>The Newer fluff is worse by far.

No, they went to sleep in the old fluff for no reason other than the Deceiver would not have his tastiest treats, except he would have if he had just looked.

>> No.23378172


Eldar history is lame they stagnate for 60 million years

What did they do between the fall of the Necrons and the birth of Slaanesh?

>> No.23378176

There would, I'm sorry to say, be a huge rush to disarm the Nazis were that the case. No chance you let them have all their territory and weapons.

Again. Maybe they could "wound them grievously" in a fair fight...

But we're talking a completely unconscious opponent while the Elder have years and years of prep time, positioning time, rearming time.

That's a done deal man. A 'grievous wound' in a fair fight translates to 'no damage' in a giant surprise assault on an unconscious opponent.

I have no idea why you're trying to imagine this obvious work of fiction is as realistic as it could be.

That's okay most times, but trying to imagine every work of fiction is perfectly realistic... is pretty bad for you.

>> No.23378186

There is a loot of time between the war in heaven and the Fall, or even the time eldar started to fuck up. At that time, eldar could reincarnate, so many of them would have fight the war themselves. They should have kept fighting for a while, and they should have destroyed a very large part of the necron empire.
So, I don't think it's unreasonable to say it's a plot hole. And he may as well try to find another explanation that doesn't make both necrons and eldar look like retards.

>> No.23378197

Nothing in particular, except for some hardcore fucking towards the end of it.

>> No.23378214

Sleep and let life grow back again.

Or devour the last embers of life and lose it forever.

An easy choice.

>> No.23378231

Yep, new fluff is less realistic. They could have done it a bit better.
I see why they did it this way, from a GW perspective-- They want to make every faction seem EPIC, rather than second fiddle.

That's probably good long term, make every faction really likeable and powerful.
But they could have done it better, and more realistically.
I would guess they just said "good enough". Meh. It's not terrible at least.

>> No.23378248

But do psykers get freaked out by Necrons and their lack of souls? Tyranids, sure, and Eldar are freaked, but more because the idea of not having a soul is very alien to them. Though seeing that most Necrons are on the level of mindless automatons, how they are able to see them as living things without a souls is perplexing.

Also, in Dark Adeptus there was a techpriest who just before he died downloaded his mind into a mainframe and there were also techpriests that had all their organic parts rot away long ago and only left with their machine bodies. I don't much remember Imperial technology having much soul storing/transferring qualities. There's even text of Imperials being appalled by eldar handling of the souls of the dead. Yet none of the techpriests caused much distress in various creatures sensitive to the warp.

What exactly are you saying? Necrons don't have souls (and they aren't cyborgs, they're machine bodies with the Necrontyr minds downloaded into) and where does it say Imperial titans have souls?

Except the codex specifically mentions the lack of a soul being what freaks tyranids out.

>> No.23378249

>Abaddon cant even get past Cadia
Read the new codex, he can but chooses to be retarded so they don't have to develop the story further.
>The entirety of Chaos can be defeated by one dude (Draigo)
What the fuck are you smoking and why aren't you sharing?
>All incursions outside of cadia are tiny
What is dominion of fire?

>> No.23378258

They could still be a huge pain in the ass.

If you were an Eldar and saw that they were doing nothing, you could decide to try and fight them now, or fight them a hundred years from now when your position will be better. A hundred years later they're still doing nothing, and a hundred years after that and then another hundred years. During this time there are active enemies that you need to fight, and other things to take care of.

>> No.23378263

>he can but chooses to be retarded so they don't have to develop the story further.

Don't worry. Soon, the 42nd Millennium will be here.

>> No.23378272

Or you could breed life totally under your control and feed on stars in the interim.

>> No.23378285

As a masterful elvish space wizard with cosmic planet destroying powers and several lifetimes of memory to remember just how horrible it would be if they ever woke up:

I'd just blow up the planets, dude.

>> No.23378288

So people can feel something that isn't there and never was, since the bodies connected with the souls were destroyed millions of years ago?

>> No.23378304

>to remember just how horrible it would be if they ever woke up:
>I'd just blow up the planets, dude.

Well that seals that argument then, I guess.

>> No.23378315

Modern times, as the Necrons are making themselves present and the eldar are all "sheeet, nigga, we in trouble." Remember, eldar have ships and factions named after "mythical creatures of eldar legends", such as the Void-Dragon.

>> No.23378335

>What the fuck are you smoking and why aren't you sharing?

Apparently, he's smoking nothing if you read the fluff. One dude (Draigo) is a mortal who apparently the 4 great chaos gods are completely helpless at killing. They apparently can't do anything to him, at all. And are so incompetent in their attempts at killing this one eye-sore in their own home, that they've just admitted defeat and avoid him now (except khorne, which just shovels dameons at him to effortlessly kill). "Tragic story of being trapped in the warp" my ass, he *SHOULD* be a bloody-smear across the warp a light-year (and centimeter) long, and his soul should have been split into 4 pieces and yummily devoured.

>> No.23378364

Eldar don't live for millions of years, and acts of aggression could reignite a war that you're tired of.

>> No.23378409

The Chaos Gods have never interacted with Draigo. Khorne doesn't shovel minions at Draigo, some of his minions go out to hunt him.

>> No.23378420

As a masterful elvish space wizard with cosmic planet destroying powers and several [hundreds of years] of memory to remember just how horrible it would be if they ever woke up:

I would make sure I blew up every possible Tomb World with a vengeance. It's not like the Necrons are breeding or anything.

>> No.23378444

I can't comment with certainly on what makes the Necrons so dreadful to Pyskers, but....

I believe the Necron soullessness is a unique result of the Biotransference. We don't know what sorcery or mad science was involved in creating the Necrons. Clearly, It wasn't give a transfer of memories and personalities into metal bodies. There was something more involved, that's how I see it.

>> No.23378452


Coup de grace a sleeping deadly foe all at once?

Yes please.

>> No.23378464


Pretty sure Deceiver took their souls and laughed all the ways to the C'Tan bank.

>> No.23378466

All Imperial weapons work with drivers, or at least a brain with computer chips.

If the Imperium would BREAK the laws on AI, the Tyranids would be FUCKED.

Alright, DH/RT campaign idea.

Your party is contacted by a radical inquisitor/admech cabal.

Awaken a horde of genocidal sleeping AI ships from the Dark Age of Technology just when the Tyranids arrive.

And hope the two destroy eachother.

>> No.23378474

>It's not like the Necrons are breeding or anything.

Exactly, they're not doing anything. If you wait you're position will only get stronger and your chance of not dying will go up.

Assuming you can, clearly they didn't think they could.

>> No.23378494


Dat's a pretty heretical Inquisitor.

Although, isn't there a Dan Abnett book where the protagonist meets a bunch of Men of Iron?

>> No.23378496

>Will gladly trade one billion sentient aliens for one of theirs.
Isn't this something an Imperium Citizen would do?

>> No.23378506

>he can but chooses to be retarded so they don't have to develop the story further.

Zooming past Cadia is like leaving the Normandy invasion to the paratroopers. From Cadia the Imperium can monitor the movement of Chaos fleets. Take it out and the Imperium has no idea how big of an enemy force is coming and and moving in which direction. And it also prevents the Imperium from launching surprise attacks into the Eye, not to forget the benefits of having a real space staging area and shipyard to mount further invasions into Imperial space.

>> No.23378523

He's a Paladin in Hell.

Everything he kills respawns. And they can't kill him.

Stop seeing Draigo as a goddamn hero in the Warp.

He's entertainment for the Chaos Gods.

They see him, like we see Hulk Hogan. A fun guy who puts up nice entertaining fights, but really, he doesn't do anything.

And insulting demon princes and demon primarchs?


>> No.23378558

>Except the codex specifically mentions the lack of a soul being what freaks tyranids out.

DUH. The Tyranids EXPECT that things show up on the senses, and show up in the Hivemind as a soul.

>> No.23378564

Why the fuck would they care about him? And why isn't he instantly corrupted or torn apart from direct contact with the Warp?

>> No.23378609

Because Grey Knights are designed as incorruptible.

They're not human. They're not superhuman like Space Marines or Primarchs.

They're flesh robots.

Their minds are wiped, and programmed into becoming Chaos killing robots.

If a Grey Knight has a desire, it would be something like this.
>}code: kill demon banish demon release dopamine - loop code

>> No.23378622

>clearly they didn't think they could.

Clearly the AUTHOR made them STUPID so they WOULDN'T.

A competent race of intelligent battle strategists deathly afraid of the greatest enemy they've ever known would CERTAINLY find a way to end that threat or live in perpetual fear that they would wake up.

The Eldar KNOW they could wake up. And they do NOTHING to prevent that.
They KNOW blowing up the planet will kill all of them, and they DON'T DO IT.

They have hundreds, thousands of years, to prepare a final devastating blow to an enemy they HAVE FOUGHT BEFORE and KNOW THEY CAPABILITIES OF.

That is NOT realistic. The end. You can delude yourself into thinking every work of fiction is realistic, but it simply ISN'T SO. And you damage your own sense of reality in doing so.

>> No.23378653

You're talking about the same race that turned the Warp into Chaos with all their reincarnation and crying over the dead and suffering.

>> No.23378661

Well he isn't the first human in the Warp right?

I remember some mentions about Space Wolves doing incursions there

>> No.23378666


Pathological stupidity is not a good literary tactic.

>> No.23378669

Though at the same time a simple tomb world mainframe can rewrite Necrons to serve it (in the codex) and Oldcrons could malfunction from solar storms (old GW site).

So on one hand you got what seems to be quite simple brain pattern downloaded onto an electronic medium, and on the other hand you got insane SCIENCE! and mysterious soullessness shit. Who freaking knows. Maybe the next codex by 9th edition sorts this shit out some more.

I don't know what drove it, but in Daemon World there was a pre-Heresy cruisers that seemed to be completely controlled by AI and survived millennia in the Maelstrom without problems.

>> No.23378675

On top of that, you do realise that the Necron - Old Ones war was going so well for the Eldar because back then, the Warp was one big safe place of infinite energy?

The demons started to appear somewhere around the end.

The Eldar probably stopped trying to fight the Necrons because the Necrons went asleep - AND DEMONS APPEARED.

>> No.23378689

You're trading a bad evil for a even worse one.

>> No.23378691

New lore states the Eldar had a golden age of happiness and safety.

>> No.23378703

Yeah, fun thing. If you'd put an AI in pretty much any Imperial warship, the effectivity of that machine would go up immensely. Actually, if you did that with any Imperial weapon system the effectivity of that weapon would go up immensely.

Remember, if something came out a STC, it was meant to have an AI pilot. And AI robot shells to go with it.

>> No.23378718

How exactly do they "expect" it? How exactly do they determine that this mechanical creature here is perfectly normal without a soul, but this one here, it's suppose to have a soul but doesn't, time to shit myself.

>> No.23378722

If anything, Khaine would demand that they finish the job or consider them cowards.

>> No.23378748

Because they simply avoided the Warp at large, and sticked to the Webway.

Which also would have limited their capabilities to find and destroy Tomb Worlds.

It's like trying to fight an enemy in war, when you refuse to leave the highway.

>> No.23378772

What mechanical creature? Hardly anyone in 40k uses robots or automated weapons, aside from the Necrons...

>> No.23378784


And this was from a time God walked alongside Eldar. Wouldn't Khaine lead them?

>> No.23378793


The Webway was perfect and unfractured though, and could lead to practically anywhere in the old days .

>> No.23378805

>if something came out a STC, it was meant to have an AI pilot.

Where does it say this?

And Imperium does have AI, there's just biological parts in it. Look up Rynn's Might or Emperor's Lightning, both Land Raiders. One sunk into a swamp and spent 18 years crawling out of it, stopping to recharge its batteries, etc. Once out it contacted its chapter for a pickup. Rynn's Might had its crew killed and continued to fight orks on its own. When disabled, it lured the orks close and then detonated its reactors to kill the warboss and plenty of orks.

>> No.23378813

I'd like to add, even if say the Dark Mechanicus fields an army of robots, it'll probably also include some demons, Chaos Space Marines and hordes of cultists.

The Tyranids will be shocked at some of these robots, but it's only a few. Big deal.

Meanwhile, the thing with Necrons is that it's ALL unnatural soulless machines.

>> No.23378819

No, it's like they ruled the galaxy absolutely with more power than they had ever had in the past. A past where the necrons couldn't beat them. A past where they already knew where a vast amount of tomb worlds lay helpless before their vengeant and well-prepared and surprising wrath.

>> No.23378820

That's not AI.

That's putting a brain with chips in your Landraider.

>> No.23378832


A past where they physically outnumber the Necrons with super-weapons that would make a cryptek cry.

>> No.23378842

Khaine would repeatedly call them cowards for leaving an enemy undefeated, show up at their aspect shrine, call them cowards again, and then lead them to war.

>> No.23378844

He's fighting a battle of futilety though, as even he can't permanently kill daemons.
seriously, read it, it literally says that he would rather try and conquer cadia for the sake of summoning his daemon allies than fight a bloody war of attrition with loyalist chapters for the sake of summoning his daemon allies- he can optionally go around cadia and cut off it's reinforcements but chooses not to for the sake of keeping the story/setting in one spot, it's just an excuse.

>> No.23378851

Tau drones, Legio Cybernetica...

>> No.23378862

And then demons appeared and the Eldar simply locked off most of the Webway.

Remember the Imperial Webway? That leads to countless lightyears of Webway NOT under Eldar control.

Keep on trolling kid. The Eldar simply consolidate their power and build a perfect invincible defense against demons, stayed in that bubble, didn't leave their bubble, and lived in debauchery for millions of years.

And then Slaanesh was born, and their perfect defence turned into the Eye of Terror.

>> No.23378882

Check this post.
Those factions don't send out ONLY soulless constructs.

>> No.23378920

So, when will the Tau figure this out and start deploying only drones and drone driven vehicles against the Tyranids?

>> No.23378922

>Keep on trolling kid.
Read the fluff. Golden Age Eldar had vast power in the materium and galaxy at large. They'd have no problem wiping a few sleeping planets off the face of the galaxy and solidifying their safety. No reason they wouldn't have, really.

>> No.23378929


The Fire Caste Warrior Union will make sure work of it.

>> No.23378988


You know, one certainly does wonder why the Tau or anyone doesn't develop AI bullshit on the level of dark age of technology humans.

>> No.23378994

Before the Fall the Eldar were the greatest civilization since the time of the Old Ones and they were capable of doing pretty much anything they wanted to.

>> No.23378997

Even when Slaanesh wasn't around, large amounts of demons wandered the Warp AND Webway. The Ancient Eldar still had to seal up massive amounts of Webway to live in safety, and that hindered their logistics in such a way they never bothered to seek out sleeping Necron worlds in large scales.

As evidenced by the fluff.

On top of that, the Ancient Eldar NEVER KNEW that Slaanesh was coming and their empire would crumble and shoot of into three incredibly small slowly going extinct communities, the Craftworld Eldar, the Dark Eldar and the Exodite Eldar.

They probably assumed their perfect empire was indestructible, and that they could just wait until the Necrons showed up again, and shoot them all to oblivion.

I reckon the Ancient Eldar DID indeed have the power to shoot all the Necrons into oblivion, but Slaanesh showed up and the Eldar will never get that level of power ever again.

>> No.23379027

>Exodites and DE going extinct

>> No.23379035

Well, the Tau are basically at 6000 AD right now or something, right? Techwise? Like, the Ethereal culture has gone on without end for 6000 years?

Well, the Golden Age of Technology with their STC AI's began like around 20,000 AD?

So the Tau still have 14,000 years left to get to the level of Golden Age of Mankind tech.

If they even survive that long.

>> No.23379044

They're going extinct slower than the Craftworlders, yes, but yeah. They're still going extinct.

>> No.23379067

Still gotta wonder, how exactly do the tyranids "know" something should have a soul. If I make a string puppet and operate it from a far, would that freak them out? It's moving and shit, but doesn't have a soul. Would a rock slide freak them out, as it's a bunch of things coming right for them, but oh shit, there's no souls, nigga!

>> No.23379103

>I reckon the Ancient Eldar DID indeed have the power to shoot all the Necrons into oblivion,
I think that's what people were talking about. That it's silly they didn't do just that, considering they obviously still knew about them back then. Especially right after they went to sleep.

>> No.23379121

A rock slide isn't a metallic skeleton that actively destroys all of your forces with unparalleled tactical acuity from millions of years of combat...

A Necron doesn't move as a robot tank.

A Necron moves like a living being, that was placed in a tank.

>> No.23379135

Liber Chaotica would have you believe some did know and even welcomed it. Because fuck yeah, creating a new god, that's something, ain't it? And in Farseer there was a Slaaneshi daemon working to see Slaanesh is born and manipulating the eldar into making it happen.

>> No.23379150

Goddamn, did you just read one line in my post?


"We'll just shoot them all when they wake up again. With our latest supermegaguns."

Then Slaanesh happened, and those supermegaguns were never put into production.

>> No.23379179

Well, I doubt that (thanks to time travel dickery of the Warp) Slaaneshi Eldar cultists would be all like

>we should totally tell the Eldar galaxy government about how we're planning to birth a god that will destroy our entire empire

>> No.23379188


I thought that Necron Warriors were supposed to be pitiful and pathetic beings who's servos could barely get to you.

>> No.23379218

>We'll just shoot them all when they wake up again.
I'm sorry to say but that's implausible. They'd have no reason to give their ancient enemy a fighting chance.

>> No.23379235

Maybe they had an anti-Necron plan set in motion, and Slaanesh happened before that.

You don't know that, so quit whining.

>> No.23379248

Even a pitiful and pathetic being becomes a goddamn warmachine if you turn that being in a self-repairing robot and let it fight for millions of years.

>> No.23379255

> Then Slaanesh happened, and those supermegaguns were never put into production.
They never started producing or designing any of these weapons in the +60 million years between the end of the War in Heaven and the Fall of their empire? How can you go to "Then Slaanesh happened" if they had 60 million years before "then?"

>> No.23379269

Laddy, it was around 50 million years before Slaanesh happened. Shit's implausible.

>> No.23379278

Hard to shoot something if you don't know where it is. Necrons weren't just a bunch of little shits, they mastered reality itself while eldar fought with swords and spears. And where exactly does it say the Eldar were at the top of their game when the War in Heaven ended? They were just rank and file soldiers. They didn't have the full story, weren't calling the shots. They had to build their empire from the ground up.

"So, duded, the war is over and we're not an army without a country. Should be start thinking about rebuilding, cleaning up and stabilizing the situation, while making sure all the nasty things from the warp don't eat us; OR do we go right on the offensive and start hunting all those dudes we fought during the war and have no idea where they went?"

>> No.23379296

When you're an immortal being with infinite amounts of power and resources before you, you stop planning things in the short term.

Human logic need not apply.

>> No.23379299

New fluff gives Golden Age Eldar unparallelled dominion over the galaxy for millions of years. Did we mention they have psychic powers, too?

>> No.23379301

I doubt they knew Slaanesh would cum so hard it'd put a hole in reality. Chaos doesn't really like to tell the truth to mortals, just use them to their own ends.

>> No.23379324

Oh yes, the extinction of the Old Ones pretty much robbed the brains of the Old Ones-Eldar-(Kr)Ork alliance.

>> No.23379334

Eldar aren't even immortal, or a single being, for one. For two, "human logic need not apply" can be used to explain ALL BAD AUTHORSHIP. "I'll have my villain give a speech and get killed from behind. It's okay because he's the villain, not human, I don't need to use logic. I'm the author."

>> No.23379346

Well, there's one race that's basically a sentient cloud of vapor. So does this mean when the tyranids encounter a very cloudy planet, they get freaked out as the clouds don't have souls?

>> No.23379355

So wait who was more powerful, the ancient Necrons or the ancient Eldar

>> No.23379358

>you stop planning things in the short term.
>Human logic need not apply.
You you're saying the author deliberately made them illogically stupid.

>> No.23379360

They still ended up inheriting a galaxy without any kind of guidance.

Old Ones went extinct, remember?

Right after the war, the Eldar knew nothing except "Kill Necrons because they're bad. Dinosaurman said Necrons are bad."

>> No.23379381

Keep on trolling kid. I keep presenting you with explanations to the fluff, but you keep ignoring it.

Cut it out, or be ignored.

>> No.23379387

>you stop planning things in the short term.

Maybe YOU do.

But an entire race of beings supposed to be smarter than humans shouldn't be forgetting the little details.

You know, stupidly.

They shouldn't be more stupid than humans.

>> No.23379393

>Human logic need not apply.
Just wanted to know if this was a thing. Isn't logic pretty much universal in definition and the only thing that can make a logical action seem illogical would be if the observer didn't have all the facts? Cant here really be such a thing as "human logic" in that case?

>> No.23379409

Which Ancient Eldar?

The ones that survived the War in Heaven?

Or the ones that set up the Eldar Empire?

The Eldar that set up the Eldar Empire were incredibly powerful, but lazy.

The Eldar that fought in the War in Heaven were ferocious destructive fighters, but they had no guidance or technological progress, because their masters were dead.

>> No.23379429

So you're saying an entire race of sentient beings suddenly have the intelligence of small children?

Despite having lived hundreds of years with the understanding that the Necrons were deadly dickbags?

Come on here.

>> No.23379441

And Necrons don't have souls and warp canceling field generators. Try doing your warp magicks on that.

And what good are those powers if you don't know what you're looking for? How hard were the Allies looking for all the Nazis once the war was over? Not very, it was mostly up to small groups while the rest of the world just wanted to forget about it all and spend all those resources on something more productive, like rebuilding the world.

>> No.23379457

Technically, it IS human logic.

See the Ancient Eldar empire as the Roman empire before the fall.

Their ancestors had all these enemies and problems they had to deal with, but these new kids don't have to.

So they sit on their arse eating grapes all day.

Then the barbarians show up, and everything goes to shit.

>> No.23379461

New fluff states that after the War, Eldar as one transitioned into a golden age of dominance.

This is not the old fluff where they were almost wiped out by the Enslavers, and thus became fearful and lazy.

New fluff is they were awesome, and remained awesome.

>> No.23379481


Compared to the Necrons, and the now-extinct Old Ones, the Eldar were like small children. In terms of actually building something.

Remember, during the War in Heaven, there was no Eldar culture.

There was Old Ones culture. And the Eldar were just another custom design genetic warrior race.

>> No.23379488

No, like, the Eldar have literal psychic clairvoyance powers and perfect webway access to the entire galaxy. Golden age Eldar could easily find and blow up every tomb world.

>> No.23379504

Eldar Defense Force Go Home.

After the War in Heaven, the Eldar became lazy space Romans.

Incredible empire with marvelous infrastructure.

Drink wine and fuck all day.

>> No.23379514

New fluff man. When the necrons went to sleep, eldar had a growing glorious unified golden age starting culture.

>> No.23379548

>Establish sworn vigils on all the Tomb Worlds.
>Doesn't just blow them up.

Read the story man. It's just implausible. Stop trying to make OBVIOUS FICTION like this shit is realistic.

>> No.23379564

That's what I'm saying.

Old Ones were extinct. Necrons go to sleep. Eldar turn their swords into plows and start setting up a CULTURE.

>> No.23379575

How do we know they didn't? They thought swords and spears were ok weapons to use against immortal machines with lightning guns. And again, you've just lost like 99% of your entire military, the galaxy is in ruins, your leaders are dead, the warp and all its terrible things are pouring in, better gather the troops and keep chasing all those metal men, nothing better to do.

It's like if there's a second HH event and all that's left if the Imperium is Ultramar, and people gave them shit for not rushing the Eye of Terror at full force.

>> No.23379576

>When you're an immortal being with infinite amounts of power and resources before you, you stop planning things in the short term.
So they did have a plan beyond playing the waiting game for over 60 million years despite not ever actually doing anything to support this theory beyond settling on the planets that harbored their enemies? They were just taking a very, very, very ,very, very long time to wipe the Necrons from the face of the galaxy because they had a longterm plan in the works that would have done so? Despite having "infinite amounts of power and resources," they felt the need to go about annihilating an enemy, whom they had every advantage over, through clever subterfuge that yielded next to no reward over the 60 million years of time they had to put this plan into motion? And they felt so sure that this plan would succeed that they took no other action against this enemy whom they had every advantage over and could never make peace with ever?
>Human logic need not apply.
Are you an alien, then?

>> No.23379577

How do you have a sworn watchful eye on this shit AND have the ability to just straight up blow them up. It's stupid.

>> No.23379605

Before the Fall, the Eldar were the greatest civilization since the time of the Old Ones, according to the latest DE codex. Phil Kelly also said that they could pretty much do anything they wanted to, so there's that. It's pretty safe to say that they were pretty powerful.

>> No.23379678

No, YOU are the troll, you constantly make shit up to fill a plot hole just to contradict someone who is trying to filling the same plot hole.

The allies weren't trying hard because, you now, the nazi lost the war, their power and their armies. That left few group or individuals, not a fucking 4th Reich that would come back with enough power to defeat Russia or USA.
Necron could have survived, but not as one of the strongest power of th galaxy.

>> No.23379709

Blanks seem to work pretty well in hiding things from psychic probing. So how exactly are you gonna predict something you can't perceive? Those powers never work to fully save the Eldar from trouble. Maybe because they're not 100% accurate? In Farseer there's only a single Farseer and his bodyguard out to stop the coming of a powerful Slaaneshi daemons because the vision wasn't clear enough and all the other seers didn't think it was important enough to investigate, so he himself set forth on the mission.

After the War the warp was a mess, so who knows how well all those powers worked. Not to forget all the nasty things about just looking for a psyker to mind fuck. Surely the best moment to start digging deep into the warp.

>> No.23379713

Guys, guys. Plot holes do exist.

The more you try to rationalize them, the more you yourself fall to delusion.

>> No.23379734

>so who knows how well all those powers worked.
It sounds like you should just read the fluff man. Eldar was powerful.

>> No.23379801

>Necron could have survived, but not as one of the strongest power of th galaxy.

Ergo, why waste time and resources on some fuckers who decided to go in hiding while there's unchecked orks and warp monsters about. Even in their prime there were races that could slap the Eldar about.

>> No.23379821

>some fuckers
You mean the greatest and most deadly race the Eldar have ever known after just having a massive war against them? Yeah. Why not let them alone. Surely nothing bad will happen.

>> No.23379831

>Surely nothing bad will happen.

40k in a nutshell.

>> No.23379846

>Even in their prime there were races that could slap the Eldar about.
Except it's said that they never actually fought wars themselves and still were not threatened by anything in particular.

>> No.23379915

You mean all the fluff where the Eldar didn't see their own demise (most that left didn't just like the way the empire was evolving into), various craftworlds getting destroyed in various ways, the fact that I just gave an example of Ulthwé seers failing get an accurate vision of the coming of a powerful daemons, etc.?

I don't remember the War in Heaven fluff mention much about seers and shit. It's possible they came later on.

>> No.23379948


>> No.23380037

>Probably the fluff about the powerful galactic empire with watchful vigils on tomb worlds, despite being able to destroy them.

>> No.23380040

Old Ones had the war. Eldar were just soldiers. How much does the average line soldier know about their enemy, the extent of the danger, etc.?

>> No.23380042

That is an excerpt from Eldar myth.

>> No.23380068

Ah, this is just a myth, but the Necrons, which existed millions of years before any of this, are true hard fact and every Eldar knows it by heart.

>> No.23380071

>How much does the average line soldier know about their enemy, the extent of the danger, etc.?
Firstly, are you joking?
Secondly, the fluff directly states the Eldar knew the extent of the danger, and vowed to watch the Necrons.
(But mysteriously didn't destroy them with their massive golden age powers.)

>> No.23380094

>How much does the average line soldier know about their enemy, the extent of the danger, etc.?

In real life? Quite a fucking lot. And Earth soldiers aren't even hyper-intelligent psychic alien elves.

>> No.23380108

Considering that they had fought each other for millennia and the Eldar veterans would, literally, have several lifetimes of experience against the Necrons, it's not inconceivable that they would know about their enemy and the extent of the danger, considering that they even built weapons like the Blackstone Fortresses during the war.

>> No.23380109

>And Earth soldiers aren't even hyper-intelligent psychic alien elves.
W-what if they are? I sense a story here.

>> No.23380129

See >>23380071

The Eldar knew about the Necrons.

>> No.23380152

Soldiers are actually pretty clever, to be honest. Especially the ones that survive.

>> No.23380197

The Eldar have lots of documentation regarding the Necrons dating all the way back to the War in Heaven. It can be assumed that they lost a lot of it in the Fall, but they have some left in the Black Library.

>> No.23380206


>> No.23380244

No. Go back to stalemating Abaddon.

>> No.23380291


>> No.23380336

Fine, fine. You are all correct. eldar had the keys to victory and they fucked it all up because the writers are idiots and the eldar fluff is stupid. This games doesn't make any sense. Where do I turn in my models and books and get me some warmachines and its superior, totally sensible background, world and factions?

>> No.23380358


And that's just clever Earth soldiers, who are usually quite aware of what the enemy they're facing has been using in battle. We're talking about space elves here supposed to be more intelligent than humans in general.

>> No.23380388

Nono, I actually like 40k. For all the plot holes, it makes a a fun story.

I literally just have a problem with people claiming that it is perfectly realistic.

That's silly. You harmfully delude yourself every time you gloss over stuff like that, and damage your own ability to innovate.

>> No.23380462

>perfectly realistic


>> No.23380523


Oh wow.

I'm just trying to work on the fluff information and speculate within its bounds, using other fluff examples as guidelines. Yeah, anyone trying to mix realism into it gets a facefull of Abrams vs. Land Raider, but within the 40k setting itself Land Raider is future super tech.

>> No.23380568

Well that's what people were doing.

"It's perfectly sensible and realistic for an entire race to just go take a nap."

"It's quite believable for their enemies to peacefully settle next to them, watching them, but not destroying them with their awesome doompowers."

Plot holes are plot holes. Trying to make them out to be perfectly realistic is, well, silly.

>> No.23380914

humans are 150% complete douchewads too.

>> No.23381200

Maybe not "realistic", but since when do we pick one piece of fluff and hold it up as the Word Of God over all the other cases that contradict it or at least place its divine status in questionable light?

Yeah, sure, eldar are super smart, perfect and knew the location of every tomb world, and at the same time the C'tan were mythical creatures, Eldar seers can fuck things up royally and there are tomb worlds hidden away where nobody knows where they are. So which piece is the one we need to take as fact and ignore the rest?

You'd think the Necrons could have predicted something like "someone's probably gonna come looking for us" and not only hide their tombs well, but also put up defences to safeguard the tomb from aggression. It could be that all the tomb worlds the Eldar did manage to take out required more than just flying in and dropping a bomb on it. You'd think that was exactly what the Necrons would prepare for. So taking your time, finding a way to get inside and planting a bomb, or disabling defences and then storming the place, might have been the way the eldar did it.

As much as Eldar had amazing tech, so did the Necrons. When ever we get a pissing contest somebody pulls out "orrery lights go out, everyone dies" and that's that.

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