/tg/ - Traditional Games

I, for one, welcome our New Phyrexian overlords. Hail the Father of Machines!

>>23321395
Does it work on whole organisms or only on single cells?

>>23321395
>RT
I love how they mention zombies in the headline to attract attention, despite not really having anything to do with zombies.

Creating a silica copy of a cell is not the same thing as creating an functioning inorganic simulacrum of one. Sounds more like a tiny molding process using meat instead of wax to me.

>>23321395
We necron now. Pic unrelated

>>23321458
This. The cell dies eventually.
It just allows us to make inorganic copies of cells. A call cannot survive for long covered in silicon.

>>23321437
the article says it works on single cells

it also says it works on the organelle within, which is the interesting/important part

>>23321395
They developed petrification?

Now put it on a scroll and we're good.

>>23321458
Towards the end of the article, they seem to suggest that the cell continues to function even after the organic components are gone.

>>23321395
>Phyrexia soon, fellow anons.
My dick is ready.

>>23321526
Right.
Because cells are mechanical objects you can copy with a 3D printer.

They talk about using living cells are templates to cretae nano scale objects.
Thats feasible and pretty mundane.

>>23321498
Not quite. It's "silification", petrification is a bit different; The main difference being it doesn't work on mono-cellular organisms very well, where this process is akin to a cross between electrostatic plating and taxidermy.

>>23321526
But there's more to life than the processes within a single cell.

For an organism to be remain alive, the processes which take place between cells are at least as important as the functioning of each individual cell. Looking at this petrification thing, I can't see how chemicals would pass through the cell membrane if it was a solid shell of silicon. Meaning the petrification process would probably only work on single cells.

You're going to have to wait a while longer for your phyrexian waifu.

I wonder if this technology could be applied to create a coating for electrodes in cybernetic implants that would be similar enough to the body's own cells not to trigger an immune response.

>>23321942

this man is thinking in the right direction

>>23321687

Uh, no. There is not "more to life than the processes within a single cell."

Did you never take a biology class?

>>23322030
Holy shit, did you?

An organism is only more than the sum of its parts because of the interacts that take place between its lower orders. Cells make people because cells interact with each other as well as themselves.

>>23322030
Intercellular interactions, nigger.

>>23322030

what are semi-permeable membranes lawl

>>23322238
>Intercellular interactions, nigger.
I suddenly feel the urge to make a gangsta mad scientist character at some point.

>>23322030
>what are emergent properties

It's like you didn't even take high school biology.

>>23322510
Now I be rollin' wit' da sientists, yo.

Could this be scaled up to basically give us bodies that don't age?

>>23322641
Maybe. But it remains to be seen whether cells preserved in this manner can still carry out the intercellular processes necessary in complex organisms like humans.

Also, I doubt that cells would still be able to divide after this process had been carried out. So your body might not age, but it wouldn't be able to heal any wounds either.

>>23322641
I'd still put my trust in telemorase.

I still find they guys trying to make inorganic cells from scratch more interesting...
actual inorganic life is superior to these cell statues

>>23322878
Seeing as I am currently an organic life form, I find the prospect of transitioning from organic to inorganic while remaining functionally alive more personally relevant than the science of building new inorganic life is.

>>23322748
>mfw a human is organic near me
Abandon the flesh, anon.

>>23322641
It could certainly give you a body that is dead.
Judging by your question that might not be a bad thing.
And I'm not even an Engineer

>>23322926
I think making inorganic life would be step one. If you know how to make a cell live being inorganic then you have a base model to go off of on how to convert the organic cell and still allow it to function.

You faggots have no appreciation for the complexity of biological life.
Which is really sad considering it's what you are.

For a start, have a look at god.
>pic related

Your machines will never match this level of sophistication on such a scale.
A crude imitation is the best that can be achieved.

I don't doubt that out future lies in the symbiosis of man and technology, but true perfection will only be attained through genetic engineering.

>>23322748

Telomorase dictates how often your cells can duplicate, but de facto bodies tend to break down because of general wear and tear and diseases that exploit them. Different life stages, different reactions to these problems, which is why kids' wounds heal much more quickly.

I'd hope for organ cloning to act as a bridge until we can regenerate our brains. Wouldn't be comfortable with replacing that one.

>>23323127
nice zipper.

>>23323158
The nicest zipper, my friend.

>>23323145
That "general wear and tear" (that is; getting old) comes from cell replication cutting into your actual DNA instead of the sacrificial telomeres, anon.
As soon as we can find a way to activate telemorase without getting all the fucking cancer, and activate regeneration, ala amphibians, we are going to be immortal.

>>23323233
It's greater then a zipper, when you unzip it it becomes two zipped zippers.

>>23323246
Problem's the cancer, of course.
We'd need some way to have cells auto-terminate if their DNA is damaged before they can duplicate.
Of course most cancerous cells already die in some way, but obviously some don't.

>>23323127
you are a fool. You sit there dumb founded and slack jawed by a process you barely understand. Life began as chemical reactions (and essentialy thats all it is still), individual molecules forming self replicating macro-molecules. All the essential mechanics of life are on that scale because that's the scale in which life originated. Human technology started on an extremely macroscopic scale, its no more astonishing that we have not created nano machinary than it is that life never created cells that are 3 feet across. Furethermore if we use your definition of machineary (chemestry forming functional macro-molecules) humans do that on a daily basis. The chemistry of life is fascinating but not uniquely impressive, when we realize its majesty its not surprising we fall on our knees in awe. The difference between you and real forward thinkers is forward thinks get off their knees and move on.

>>23323398
>you are a fool
Always an excellent way to start a wall of text...

>>23323268
just completely autonomous chemistry working by trial and error for 3.8 billion years

>>23323424
wasn't intended for the fool to read, just to possibly inoculate others from his pious ignorance

>>23323398
Okay?
First, do you understand the scale of DNA?
Good luck going below this scale with technology.
Cells come in various sizes and tend to have reasons to be the size they are.
Again, you seem to not be familiar with cells.
Really, I don't see the point in continuing. You're suffering from a case of the strawmans.

>>23323450
This is pretty much correct, except that DNA was among the first things to evolve and that it took an incredible multitude of "coincidences", sometimes seperated by hundreds of millions of years, to create the humans we have today.
It's the only reason there aren't alien civilisations everywhere: they're super unlikely to arise even if there is life.

This sounds a lot like the process used to make cyber brains in GiTS.

>>23323673
>DNA
>Not RNA

>>23323673
>>23323398
No need to fight, anons. DNA-based technology and inorganic technology are not mutually exclusive.

DNA can be used as a storage medium for digital files.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2012/08/17/harvard-researchers-can-store-all-the-data-humans-make-in-a-year-on-4-grams-of-dna/

>>23323929
Man, when they did that in real adventures of Johnny Quest, it did not turn out well.

Organic and inorganic are buzzwords.
We're just robots who happen to be made out of sugar and nitrogen.

>>23323942
Care to elaborate?

>>23323972
So sayeth.

>>23321395
This sounds like an inorganic casing that kills the cell but traps the micro orgenelles and enzymes in one cell sized space and then can do the same work as the same living cell...for a time and the cell cannot split.

Not really an artificial cell. The most important aspect of the cell is that it can self replicate.

>>23323997
I believe it involved a giant sentient blob of DNA grabbing people and eating their thoughts.

I remember it scaring the living daylights out of me as a child.

>>23326339
Very true. I like being a robot though.
Raise me up to a level that I can prefer over what I currently have by all means but I wanna exist. Robots matter.

>>23326406
Speaking of blobs of DNA.
How would a glob of pure DNA taste?

>>23326432
Salty probably.

>>23321454
The scientists who made it call the resulting cells zombie cells.

PRAISE BE TO THE OMNISSIAH!

>>23326406
That's not really how it would work. At all.

>>23326447
Wouldn't it be sweet?
Isn't DNA made out of some kind of sugar or some shit?

>>23322030

>someone was THIS retarded near me

>>23326549
Does bread taste sweet?

>>23323398

>(and essentially thats all it is still)
I'm not sure you wanna get into an argument over the philosophy of mind, buddy boy.

>>23326646
It depends. Sometimes bread can taste sweet.

>>23323673

How can you merely assume alien races do not exist? Do you alone have the power to peer into every facet of every star system of every galaxy?

>>23326646
If you allow the enzymes in your saliva to break down the starches in it into simple sugars, yes.

>process replaces organic components of a cell with a heat-resistant silica based material
>mfw they're quite literally converting living tissue into porcelain
Nice.

>>23326339
>>23323972
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKW4F0Nu-UY

>>23326836
No Elesh Norn for you.

There wouldn't be any red meaty parts on someone exposed to this process. Just impossibly smooth, shiny, silica-infused skin.

>>23326913
Oh god yes, this video. So fucking awesome.
Kinesin-walking has got to be my favorite part.

>>23327055
You say that like it's a bad thing.

>>23327055
Possibly with a gold coating!

>>23326913

>Motor Protein 3:55

Haters gonna hate

>>23327182
Cannot unsee.

>>23321395
>continue to function as though they were alive, but become nearly indestructible.
I have no idea why you decided to take a pretty cool discovery, then make up something utterly ridiculous about it.

>>23327254

Welcome to modern media.

>>23327254
Well they do say the cells become resistant to heat and pressure.

Though "nearly indestructible" is a rather dramatic exaggeration.

>>23327295
That's not the only part of OP's comment that is moronic. The copies don't "continue to function as though they were alive." That doesn't have anything, at all, to do with the discovery. The point was that it can be used as a molding process to create nano-structures. OP's level of not-being-able to read is kinda astonishing.

>>23327254
Well the scientists themselves call the things zombie cells despite not exhibiting any behavior related to zombies.

I'd say OP is just carrying on an already established trend of hyperbole.

>>23327352
See, hyperbole is when you exaggerate something. Claiming that the replicas continue to function isn't hyperbolic--it's straight up fiction.

>>23327385
The article quotes the scientist saying:
>“Our zombie cells bridge chemistry and biology to create forms that not only near-perfectly resemble their past selves but can do future work.”

Sounds to me like the cells continue to function after the process, rather than just being preserved.

>>23327427
That's because you only seem to have read a single sentence in the story. Or, if you read the rest, you didn't understand it.

The point is that we can't, currently, create three-dimensional nano-structures. The process allows the scientists to use living cells as molds to create 3d structures of the cells and organelles therein. They could do future work because they could be employed in nano-machines. It has fuck-all to do with the nano-structures functioning as the cells did.

>>23327427
There's a difference between continuing to function, and continuing to function as though alive.

Whatever else they do, the cells clearly cannot replicate themselves, which is kinda the main thing that defines something as being alive.

>>23327427

No, they mean future work as in be used in nanostructures. They're talking about the cell structure, not function. Read the article more carefully: they're using the cell as a silicon mold, essentially. At the end of the process there is a (dead) silicon version of a cell.

>>23327521

In case this wasn't clear enough:

THE CELL IS DEAD. IT HAS BEEN FILLED WITH SILICON. IT IS DEAD. ALL THAT IS LEFT IS SILICON CAST WHICH CAN BE USED AS A NANOSTRUCTURE.

Hope that helps.

>>23326719
I didn't say that.
I said they aren't everywhere, that is: they are rare.
I'm not trying to assume either existence or nonexistence in general.
Their existence overall is pretty likely, but only on a tiny percentage of planets that evolved life.

>>23327427
There is no way that the organelles could work.
Even if they had the same shape and structure, they would lack the protiens and carbohydrates and lipids and nucleic acids necessary for cellular function.
The silicon wold be incapable of acting in the way that the cell did.

>>23327585
>Their existence overall is pretty likely, but only on a tiny percentage of planets that evolved life
will develop sapient beings.
.. was kinda missing that part.

>>23321492
will the inorganic cell still divide as normal?

>>23327613
Eh, I think the biggest jump you'd have to take would be from pro to eukaryote.
After that, it would be smooth sailing.

>>23327658
hah, no possible way.

>>23327658
No. Stop believing whoever is posting that rubbish. The replicas have no functions. They perform no processes. They are molds of the cells and organelles. The reason that it is important is because it's an easy, cheap, reliable way to create 3D nanostructures and, if nanomachines are ever going to get built, we'll need a way to create 3D nanostructures to build machines with. So, with this method, all that you have to do is find the right cells with the right-shaped organelles to create the parts for a machine that you want to construct, which is important, because we cannot create the pieces for the machines with current technology. This removes the need to create 3D nano-structures from scratch.

>>23327658
Nope. When the cell is heated to remove the organic bits, the DNA would be lost.

No possible way for it to replicate.

ITT: A microcosm of the constant battle scientists must wage with media in order to avoid gross misrepresentation.

It's a real pain, y'know.

>>23327182
My sides!

>>23327677
The biggest jump is self-replication, long before you get even prokaryotes. Once you get that far, if a stable number of cells exist, evolution will happen.

>>23327677
Well, I suppose I should include organelles, or maybe just mitochondria into this transition.

>>23327744
I dunno, I think the importance of a nuclear membrane cannot be overstated. Well, that and a really really good powerplant. I think the fact that nearly all eukaryotes have mitochondria speaks for itself.

The original source offers a somewhat more complete description of the technology.

https://share.sandia.gov/news/resources/news_releases/zombie-cells/

>>23327736
>>23327182
Nigger, I just don't give a FUCK.

>>23327810
What do they mean by

>Heat-hardened silica would stabilize and protect the still-present protein as it did its work.

>>23323286
>We'd need some way to have cells auto-terminate if their DNA is damaged before they can duplicate.
We'd need some more ways to have cells auto-terminate if their DNA is damaged before they can duplicate.
Fixed that for you

>>23327787
Acquiring new organelles might be easier than you think.
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/01/green-sea-slug/
I just wanted an excuse to post this guy because he is ffffucking awesome.

>>23327875
Means the cell keeps working after the process is done, to a certain extent.

Still doesn't mean the cell is alive post-procedure.

>>23327875
they are putting bubble wrap around the machinery of the cell so it can keep working without the dying cell releasing protein degrading enzymes to cut everything to pieces.

The silica will on average allow the movement of chemicals the proteins need to process, but I find the idea that anything beyond a few useful reactions could be done inside these shells, the selectivity of the silica membranes won't be anything like that of a transporter protein rich lipid membrane.

I imagined just now, can they make a silica replicate of a human brain? And if they can, can they program nanomachines to work following the neuronal pattern?
shouldn't that give us a boost in understanding how to improve computers? Maybe I'm going a little too far ahead

>>23328406
I doubt it would work. The silica would surely interfere with the electrical impulses that make up most of your consciousness.

FATHER OF MACHINES, YOUR FILIGREE GAZE CARVES US AND THE SCARS DANCE UPON OUR GRATEFUL FLESH!

>>23328640
Back off, Phyrexian.

There's only room for one tech-cult on this board.

>>23328672

>implying the Machine God/C'tan Void Dragon isn't just Yawgmoth and that Phyrexia is a planet in the 40K universe

>>23328672
BUT CONSIDER: OUR TECHNOLOGIES ARE COMPATIBLE. TOGETHER WE COULD UPGRADE THE UNIVERSE.

>>23328711
>>23328739
>mfw enlightenment

>>23328766

>the Simic Guild invented Culexus

>>23328804
>Khorne is just an aspect of Rakdos

>>23328822

>Tzeentch founded the Dimir guild years ago

Calm down, Tezzy. It seems my polymorph spell has addled your poor mind.

>>23328840
>Urza was really the Emperor and the Metathran were Space Marines

>>23328672
>>23328711
>>23328822
>>23328804
>>23328840
>>23328894
and people wonder why 40kids are hated so much

>>23328672
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHFbzaf8FX8

>>23328912
naw, you are just a faggot.

Ah, my, this is interesting. I'm going to look into using these in my eventual stomach lining one day.

I want to be able to eat near anything, if I need to. I mean, photosynthesis might become unavailable at some point.

do they regenerate as well? like if you were to harm yourself, would your skin cells still grow back, and would they go stronger as they usually do?

>>23329034
said the 40kid

>>23329112
That's not really... no, anon, it does not work like that.

>>23329123
No. The cells are dead, and only continue to function as little machines.

No cell division means no healing.

>>23329028
>mfw
That was entirely more metal than I expected.

>>23329028
Superior.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xhGoS-_ltU

>>23329145
As far as Yes goes, you are definitely correct.
It is definitely them, though. You can't hide their signature voicework, the piano, or the synthesizer behind a single growling guitar. But the fact that they were willing to get that heavy and rhythmic makes me happy.
Although what else would you expect from a band that is synonymous with experimental rock

>>23328912
>Implying I'm a 40kid

You need some sleep, buddy. Why don't you go on inside and read some of your Chinese comic books. Your mom will make you some hot coco.

>>23327182
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKW4F0Nu-UY
>>23327244
>>23327736
>>23327826

>>23329207
I dunno, it doesn't have the same mechanical feel. It's missing the electronic soar/gallop of Machine Messiah.

>>23328912
>and people wonder why nerds are hated so much

Gee, I wonder why? I mean, all nerds love comparing shit with shit.

>>23329326
>>23327826
I have always found the Kinesin and the Dinein amazing, Now I find it hilarious.

>mfw everything ITT

>>23329644
This.

When can I leave the flesh behind?

>>23329834
Soonish

>>23327810
There's something vaguely horrifying about living things being converted into undead machines through simple exposure to a certain chemical solution.

And yet at the same time...
>mfw

the memories of mice are being recorded, decoded and understood, portions of their little brains are destroyed then partially replaced with computers, granting partial mobility, sight, smell, or entirely new senses. The technology is young, inelegant, but soon. We humans change the world around us to suit our needs, soon we will change our bodies to do the same.

Things like the pic related will be a joke in 100 years from now, and our idea of what can be will never be the same.

This is humanity fuck yeah. but for real. Trans-humanism, fuck yeah. fuck yeah /tg/

Anyone happen to have a handy link to the peer-reviewed version?

Because until I see/read that journal article, all of this may as well be a joke.