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[ERROR] No.23264802 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Just saying Tau needs update

>> No.23265153

I'll let Matt Ward know the next time I see him.

>> No.23265339

Tau shouldn't have existed in the first place. Worst army.

>> No.23265352

>>23265339
>Tau
>Worse than Space Wolves

Wat?

>> No.23265411

>>23265352
Space Marines were the first and are the core army. Tau are shit and shouldn't exist.

>> No.23265442

>>23265411
Endless annoying Space Marine Variants are not Equivalent to Space Marines.

>> No.23265482

When all armies are Space Marines, 40k will be perfect.

>> No.23265489

>>23265442
The very first codex was a Space Marine variant.

>> No.23265505

>>23265442
I agree on Space Wolves thing.

They stick out of the setting more than the Tau ever could.

>> No.23265512

>>23265411
Tau fill an important and unique niche thematically, aesthetically and mechanically. That's more than you could say about Space Marine variant #65535.

Still want to see the new Eldar codex first.

>> No.23265515

>>23265489
Yes, and we have been doomed ever since.

>> No.23265542

>>23265512
Tau don't fit the setting and their aesthetic is boring. They are nothing more than a failed attempt to tap into the weeaboo market.

>> No.23265624

>>23265542
How do they not fit the setting? Unless you look at it only in the most superficial way, they're still sufficiently fucked up to fit into the whole grimdark universe.
They're unique in that they're basically the only race that's "new" and not yet established, both politically as well as technologically. Their aesthetics fills the "classic" sci-fi look of smooth lines and practical, functional designs. That's fairly unique and found nowhere else in 40k.

>> No.23265625

>>23265542
What's even worse is they chose to translate the Tau codex and put it online for free in an attempt to break into the Japanese wargaming market.

Those japs like those robot things, right? While we're at it, let's raise model prices again.
>brilliant!

Just imagine if someone had told them to do the CSM codex, or even the IG. All that nazi symbolism would have had the Japanese fanboys throwing money at them so hard that the used panty economy would have utterly collapsed. By now we'd have lots of great Japanese fanart and probably Bandai making Revoltech Tancred.

>> No.23265645

>>23265352
Space Wolves would work if they were more about being space vikings and less space space yiff yiff. At the same time BA could start being more vampires and less angels, DA could be more about dark secrets and less about strapping a huge sign on them saying "totally not carrying a dark secret, no need to call the Inquisition". At this point the Imperium probably has the same relationship to the DA as a family would have to their flaming faggot of a son who still tries to pass off as being totally straight. Everyone knows, but nobody brings it up, and when the DA finally do break the news, some bets are paid and everyone's like "well good for you" while passing sad glances at each other.

All this bullshit with modern chapters is just GW trying to push the envelope to justify the existence of those token chapter books that were put out as nothing more than fanservice. Out of all the chapters, maybe GK and SW are the most varied from the Codex. BA just have emphasis on assault troops and have like one special tank. DA are actually very Codex apart from their 1st and 2nd companies (Crimson Fists also have a special 1st company and Exorcists have 3 scout companies) and BT just have extra numbers and their scouts aren't in their own squads. And yet even SW would work perfectly well in vanilla codex.

>> No.23265717

>>23265624
They are too bland for the setting, fitting into the generic alien coalition cliche, and they've ham handily attempted to make them darker over the years rather than recognising their mistake and removing them entirely. Their aesthetic is far too clean.

>> No.23265789

If only GW would have made Tau like they were in the concept art. That shit's 40k as fuck.

>> No.23265806

>>23265789

>> No.23265809

>>23265717
They're not any more generic than some other codices. Eldar are elves in space, Dark Eldar are the same but spiky. Like half (more like all) the IG regiments are basically just historical earth armies in space. Necrons used to be basically just Terminators.

Shit, I don't even like Tau all that much, but so much of the hate here is just "pee pee doo doo they're weeaboo" and flimsy justification.

>> No.23265845

>>23265717
>>23265542
>>23265411
>this is what spess mahreen fanboys actually believe

>> No.23265861

>>23265717
>They are too bland for the setting

What the fuck?

In a setting that includes space elves, space orcs, and humans, no they're not.

>> No.23265875

>>23265717
Space Marines are too bland for the setting, fitting into the generic superhuman murdermachine cliche, and they've ham handily attempted to make them darker over the years by having them be general dicks to each other and civilians rather than removing them entirely. Their aesthetic is far too clean and their pauldrons too ridiculous.

>> No.23265886

>>23264802
Update is coming. The new codex will be written by Cruddace
>Suxtobetau.jpg

>> No.23265942

>>23265809
>Eldar are elves in space, Dark Eldar are the same but spiky.

40k is space fantasy, fantasy elements are expected and welcomed.

>Like half (more like all) the IG regiments are basically just historical earth armies in space.

Such a huge array of influences is interesting.

>Necrons used to be basically just Terminators.

Undead.

>Shit, I don't even like Tau all that much, but so much of the hate here is just "pee pee doo doo they're weeaboo" and flimsy justification.

Bland and shit.

>>23265861
Those things aren't bland and they actually fit the setting. Tau look like they should belong in Star Trek or the Star Wars prequels.

>>23265875
Marines aren't bland, and are far from generic super humans. They're pious templars mixed with another culture.

>> No.23265962

>>23265789
>>23265806
That looks kinda like what we got only with a dirtier paintjob and more details. They were probably just streamlined due to modelling considerations.

Eldar had pretty much the same thing happen.

>> No.23265967

>>23265886
My IG friends say Crud rocks.

I don't get the hate the guy gets.

>> No.23265976

How are Tau the weeaboo army and not Eldar?

>> No.23265991

>>23265976
Devs admitted they drew inspiration from manga for the Tau. Manga is for weeaboos.

>> No.23265997

>>23265976
Mechs, pretty much

>> No.23265998

>>23265942
>it's only bland and boring when i say it is, otherwise it's original or a expected

>> No.23266000

>>23265967
Because he made IG the most broken codex in the game.

>> No.23266009

>>23264802

I agree with OP

Tau need an update, even tho they got one not too long ago.

Need more Merc options to fill nonexistant CC roles (kroot against SM? lol, that'll last for about 1 turn before they run like bitches. fuckin armourless kroot pussies)
"But Tau dont like CC" They have robot drones with guns. are you telling me they cant put some chainsaws on those things? flamethrowers? why not pack em with fail-safe bombs? I'd rather have kamikaze drones that actually do damage to marine armor than some ineffective Native american rip-offs
(speaking of which, tau have always reminded me of British Red coats, fighting along side native americans, in their huge musket squares. hold the line!)

all fluff also says that Humans routinely break off from the Imperium to join the Tau empire. why cant we have some Gue'vesa'la? sure we had an add-on on the website YEARS ago but its no longer chapter approved.

Actual 'Tau' models dont really need any boost, they are pretty good in-game and are much more visually appealing then lame-ass space marines


Space marines dont need any more new codexes, they are overpowered already. dont like GW's obssesion with their precious marines. what the point of even having other armies if you are going to coddle marines that much?

Warhammer 40k Imperium Civil war. Imperium vs Chaos n no other armies

yawn, give me Tau or Orks any day, much more creative customization. but i digress...

>> No.23266012

Tau in some ways are like orks - a litmus test to determine if the people you're playing with/against are retards.

If someone genuinely insists that orks can take a matchbox with screws and tape it to a pipe (or turn a rock into a grenade by believing hard enough) you're dealing with a retard. If someone genuinely believes that a shooty as fuck army that plays on a lot of classic scifi tropes and imagery (smooth lines, mecha, universal cohesion and cooperation with other races) has no place in 40k, you're dealing with a retard.

That said, tau codex is very dated and has some issues - especially with the introduction of 6e allies. Kroot are essentially overcosted ork boys... but worse. Basic firewarriors (while being one of the best choices in the codex) are very much overcosted guardsmen with no special orders or ability to switch up equipment etc, Crisis suits for all their awesomeness are *very* expensive space marines (costing average more than a terminator for their equipment), Vespids are hilariously overcosted and awful. Your fast attack options like piranha's while awesome in no way compare to pathfinders.

Basically the tau codex in order for an update to be good, need some major points cost reductions, across the board and a few of the stats bumped up on stuff, as well as some rules interaction changes (a shas'ui in a firewarrior squad with a markerlight should give the rest of the squad +1bs or someshit).

>> No.23266017

>>23265998
Somethings belong in space fantasy like 40k, others belong in the Federation. The Tau are the latter.

>> No.23266021

>>23266000
...then why would it suck If he wrote the Tau Codex?

He might make them overpowered too!

>> No.23266029

>>23265942
Haha, what the shit.

>These generic fantasy templates lifted from other works are awesome and fitting.
>This other template lifted from the same kind of works is not because reasons.

Why are simple copies of human armies an "interesting array of influences" and a coalition of at least halfway unique alien races somehow is not?

>> No.23266034

Nothing good can come of this thread's current direction.

>> No.23266041

>>23266021
Being OP is not a good thing unless you're a WAAC faggot.

>> No.23266044

>>23265886
>>23266000

The Warriors of Chaos Armybook was written by Crud.

It's decent.

Gives me hope for Tau.

>> No.23266045

>>23266029
Because HFY

>> No.23266062

>>23266017
You still have to present a reason for this beyond "because I say so"

>> No.23266066

>>23266021
>vampire counts
>tyranids (5th edition)
>Empire
>tomb kings (8th edition)
nerfed

>> No.23266081

>>23266012
>If someone genuinely insists that orks can take a matchbox with screws and tape it to a pipe (or turn a rock into a grenade by believing hard enough) you're dealing with a retard.

Except that's official lore for the Orks?

>> No.23266091

>>23265886
> everyvehiclevariantsever
> "eh what about a armour 12 flyer with 3 twin-linked railgun fot 150 ?"
- crisis in troup, CT4 and cost pretty much nothing near their value, while firewarriors remain pretty much the same
- "kroots gains a random rule at the beginning of the game, amIfunyet ? Oh 10 per squad max, because of reasons"
- stealth get shitload of rules and weapons, making them overpriced
- piranha are ok, but who care ? take more flyers
- ...

>> No.23266092

>>23266009
>kamikaze drones

oh god yes.

>> No.23266098

>>23266029
>Why are simple copies of human armies an "interesting array of influences"

Because you'll be hard pressed to find a WW1 soldiers and Attila's Hun horde fighting together on an alien planet in most settings. Finding an alien coalition is generic as all hell. And with their peaceful assimilation they don't fit into 40k at all.

>> No.23266112

>>23266021
IG is powerful because of a few good units. A lot of the codex is filled with useless units. He cannot comprehend how to give an army internal balance. He just got lucky that there were a few diamonds in his pile of shit

>> No.23266117

>>23266009
>Need more Merc options to fill nonexistant CC roles
Allies let you handle this, and in general the way lists should be built is that if you want to run a shooty army you *do not want* a cc option in there because it prevents the rest of your army from shooting something that needs to be dead because you put something in melee with it. I mean, that is why you'd put something in CC with whatever - because it's dangerous. I'd rather have a dangerous thing dead rather than merely tied up (and unable to be killed by the rest of my army). You could take some ork boys as allies for cc.... or you could take some eldar seers and use their psyker powers to make your fire warriors even more lethally shooty, I'll tell you what one is by far the better option - it's not orks.

And as >>23266012 has pointed out, a lot of tau units are grossly overcosted for what they do (firewarriors being more expensive guardsmen, kroot being more expensive ork boys etc) without any of the special rules that make said units awesome.

>> No.23266125

>>23265809
But the slight difference is that eldar, humans, orcs, crons, etc. are just fantasy arch types in space. Elfs, assholes, orcs, undead, etc. Tyranids are, in part, just monsters and what fantasy setting is complete without generic monsters? Ground wars use close combat weapons, ships handle like wooden ships in space with broadsides and shit.

But Tau, as they are now, are a pure scifi thing. They're the Star Trek phaser in the gritty cyberpunk world where guns are loud and high-tech means neon lights and wires and having flashy effects.


Tau would work if they could settle on what's their shtick. Now they're an optimistic species with "advanced tech" and allies, while being imperialistic overlords and jerks, and basically some sort of dystopian nightmare North Korea. Just give them a simple identity and stick with it.

Tau could be the WHFB Cathay of 40k. Give them more Chinese feel. History of warring nations with mysticism and rituals, paved over by the communist revolution that promotes the old days as culture while not having any of its own. The friendliness towards others was just a ruse to gain allies and root themselves into their society and now they're applying the squeeze. The models could use some more grit, little details and stuff. Make them more 40k and less generic scifi.

>> No.23266141

>>23266081
Not...exactly. Basically the only sources for this were purposefully written from an imperial perspective, which basically boiled down to "I can't understand how it works even though it was build by those primitive orcs? Must be MAGIC!"

It's also contradicted by the P&P RPGs where human player characters can pick up and use ork weapons, they're just more reliable when in ork hands.

>> No.23266149

>>23266112
Do you even IG?
It's basically impossible to make a bad army using that codex.

>> No.23266156

>>23266081
Not really. They can have a gun that's missing the firing pin work, but there has to be at least semi-workable to start with. A stick with a book tied to it does not make a gun, no matter how much the Ork thinks it should. There are limits to the Waagh field.

>> No.23266157

>>23266081
Except it's not, all accounts of that are from Imperial perspective and they don't know shit about how technology functions.
Not to mention that there is a ton of examples of non-orks using ork weapons just fine,

>> No.23266167

>>23266081
>one small piece of fluff in a subnote of something else contradicted by almost everything else and stated by many to be completely retarded.
>LETS CLING TO IT LIKE ITS THE ONLY PIECE OF 'TRUTH' OUT THERE AND ABSOLUTELY REFUTES EVERYTHING ELSE THAT'S BETTER SUPPORTED AND HAS MORE EVIDENCE.

It's like I'm talking to a christian, you failed the litmus test for being a fucking retard.

>> No.23266182

>>23266141
>which basically boiled down to "I can't understand how it works even though it was build by those primitive orcs? Must be MAGIC!"

No, it was "some of it doesn't work in human hands, but it does in Ork hands".

>> No.23266189

>>23266098
>peaceful assimilation
Only if you want to join them. If not, its broadsides up the ass.

They are only slightly less dickish than the Imperium but they put on a much better face. Maybe its the absence of skulls and images of death Good publicity makes a world of difference. They fit.

Besides, in the magical world of 40k, anything can fit.

>> No.23266192

>>23266182
>what is unreliable narration

>> No.23266197

>>23266098
You'd also be hard pressed to find a mutating cannibal fighting next to some insect man and a blueberry. And their "peaceful assimilation" is more like: "We'll ask you once if you want to join, if you decline we'll just force you". Pretty much exactly like the Imperium did during the Great Crusade.

>> No.23266205

>>23264802
Um. You DO KNOW they are getting one? This must be a troll post.

Go and read websites. They are getting one. It'll be either next or after Daemons.

>> No.23266216

>>23266098
Peaceful assimilation is their opening move. If that fails they move to forced assimilation or subversion.

If you mean that they don't fit in that they tolerate the existence of other species at all, yeah there's a good point. The Tau and the Orks are the only species that really don't mind the existence of others, but that's a breath of fresh air in the galaxy of KILL EVERYONE WHO ISNT ME!

>> No.23266225

Eldar need an update almost as bad

>> No.23266243

>>23266167
But....the Tau findings on Medusa also support that piece of fluff.

>> No.23266249

>>23266149
All armored sentinals and ogryn supported by conscripts. No tanks, vets, vendettas or artillery.

>> No.23266254

>>23266192
So what, we're to assume that Anzion is not only a deluded crackpot retarded conspiracy theorist, but also an outright liar?

>> No.23266264

>>23266012
>matchbox with screws taped to a pipe and get a functioning shoota*

>> No.23266282

>>23265962
About so. Some Tau art does depict them with war paint and more individualistic armour colours, which could indicate we're moving towards the Blanche concepts.

And Eldar have plenty of bits and bling. Only the (now pretty old) plastic Guardians are quite simple. When you look at banshees and scorpions and even fire dragons, you see a lot of that concept art stuff transferred to models. Even the dire avengers have little details and nick-nacks on them.

>> No.23266288

>>23266182
Yeah, the ones that utilise warp, like that Mek's gun with random results each time it fires. 99% of ork tech is basically crude imperial stubbers / cannons.

>> No.23266290

>>23266249
That's a lot of points worth of conscripts. It's not going to win a tournament, but you could still do okay.
My point still stands though, the internal balance of the book is pretty decent.

>> No.23266291

>>23266225
They're set to get one this year as well.

>> No.23266310

>>23266243
Tau also killed Slaanesh.

>> No.23266346

>>23266310
And what this has to do with anything?

Are you implying that Ork Technology like daemons run on Magics so the Tau had no way of figuring it out? I got ya!

>> No.23266349

>>23266310
To be fair they were under the impression the Cult Leader/Marine/Whatever it was was named Slaanesh.

Simple enough mistake to make, don't think they were even aware of the Chaos Gods' existence at the time. Or ever.

>> No.23266360

>>23266012

> Kroot are essentially overcosted ork boys... but worse
I agree, so what the point of even having them?

>f someone genuinely insists that orks can take a matchbox with screws and tape it to a pipe (or turn a rock into a grenade by believing hard enough) you're dealing with a retard.
This is the best part about orks. completly and utterly unique in the 40K universe. all other armies have uniforms, cohesion, advanced technology, logic...

part of the fluff with orks is that they hivemind a very subtle psykic field that allows a rock to be turned into a hand grenade if enough orks are dumb enough to believe it will explode.
red ork truks go faster because orks think they do.

orks run into battle with homemade axes and 6-shooters against hovertanks armed with lasers and plasma AND THEY WIN.

Orks are by far my favorite army because all the odds, all the tech, all the tactics, all the psykers, all the intergalactic space-fairing races, they still persist.

who needs a highly advanced space warship when u can strap an engine to an asteroid and crash it into the planet? spaceship+weapon. awsome

Orkz is never beaten in battle!!! WAAAGH!!

>> No.23266363

>>23266081
Diggas nor Ork Hunters don't seem to have much trouble using Ork guns.

>> No.23266381

>>23266349
It's a mistake any Imperial commander can make, since Chaos lore is only known by a few.

>> No.23266398

>sorcerors and daemons are a thing
>ork magic isn't that magical
You guys...

>> No.23266403

This thread have :
> the tau shitstorm
> number of SM codex shitstorm
> "if orks believe it happen" shitstorm
> the "who's the more weeboo of 40k" shitfest
> Cruddhate
If we can have a new/oldcrons fest with a zest of Ward love/hate, that would be perfect.

>> No.23266408

>>23266363
Because they live in areas where there is a lot of Orks?

>> No.23266418

>>23266091


shit, i hope these things dont happen. kroot suck enough already, why make them worse?
and more flyers? can i give them a weapon that doesnt suck? and can u make them not cost 80p apiece and blow up from bloter fire?

fucking hate piranhas... worst.vehicle.ever.

>> No.23266419

>>23266403
Some of those "shitstorm" were more like mild fartbreezes.

>> No.23266427

>>23266398
Less breaking reality more bending it. Until the Wyrdboy explodes.

>> No.23266444

>>23266398
>there is magic
>everything must be magic!

>> No.23266459

>>23266427
And he ALWAYS explodes.

>> No.23266480

>>23266444
Yes, that is exactly what I meant. I was hoping you might realize it and then use it to mock me.

>> No.23266486

>>23266360
And you have failed the litmus test for being a retard as well. Orks are dumb, but they're not completely retarded - no ork is going to believe a rock picked up off the ground is a hand grenade no matter how much the boss tells him so.

The ork psychic gestalt field called the waaagh is an alteration of probability - in all truth ork guns *should* explode after continuous use, however the gestalt field alters things so that's not the case.

Furthermore, within orks very DNA it there is knowledge of practically every subject written in so that orks can inherently know how to do shit, they actually make quite good shoota's but because there's no such thing as conventional shared knowledge they're prone to defects that the gestalt field compensates for.

There are numerous pieces of fluff that state exactly this (and if i could find where I'd saved them to on my HD, I'd post them just to explain how fucking wrong you are).

>> No.23266491

>>23266117

I use CC to tie up troops i know i wont be able to kill in shooting so they'll never see combat

if i sacrifice a 100p squad in order to prevent a 250p squad from ever seeing my frontline then so be it, good trade.

kroot are the only merc CC option Tau have and they are shit. no leadership, no armour, low inititive.

I tried using allies, but its hard to justify fluff-wise. Tauy and Orks are mortal enemies and have waged war since Tau first went into space. that would be like tau allying with space marines... it just would never happen.

>> No.23266502

>>23266419
In this thread yes. We have too much of them in too few posts to properly be mad at them here.

>> No.23266517

>>23266480
You should feel quite foolish now.

>> No.23266529

>>23264802
This, Me and a buddy just started 40k and I hate just stomping him during our little 500-1000 point skirmish games.

I play orks by the way.

>> No.23266548

>>23266167

Its in the rules of the ork codex.

red truks go faster because ork psykic hivemind thinks they go faster.

their stupidity and unwillingness to see reality (like christians) is actually tom their advantage.

Imperial engineers try n find out how ork machines like big mechs are constructed and actually work, and it turns out they only work due to the Orks blind faith that they will work.

not a tiny peice of fluff, full on rule

>> No.23266556

>>23266491
>Tau have never allied with spacemarines because fluff shouldn't work like that!
Tyranids called and said that it's unfair that they had to fight tau, eldar and ultramarines all at the same time.

>Tau shouldn't ally with orks cause it's hard to justify in fluff
Just like orks working with chaos, space marines, eldar, imperial guard, grey knights or almost any other faction, all of which have canon fluff examples to draw from, most of which boil down to "Someone told the orks there'd be a good fight here, so the orks were like 'thanks, we'll krump dem den we'll krump you - cuz orks iz best".

>> No.23266565

>>23266491
Can they ally with Dark Eldar? That could work, fluff it as a small "diplomatic" detachment that tries to corrupt or otherwise influence the Tau.

>> No.23266580

>>23266408
So now we've gone from "only works in ork hands" to "works in around the same continent as orks"?

>> No.23266581

>>23266517
You have no idea.

>> No.23266607

>>23266548
The difference is between "amplifies/faciliates the function" and "enables the function". Yes, red trucks go fasta. However if you would just paint a truck chassis with not engine red it would not magically start driving. The ork psy-fuckery basically smoothes things over, but it can't completely override reality.

>> No.23266616

>>23266548
Yes, the ork hivemind helps their technology, but not " turn a stick into a gun" or "ork technology doesn't work for non-orks". Why do people think it was to be 100% one way or the other.

>> No.23266623

>>23266556
Freebootas for everybody!

Give the shootas tau guns that have been made orky. Tau paid the orks in dakka. Like a broadside Deff Dread or something

>> No.23266675

>>23266580
The argument is about the Waaagh effect on Ork stuff

Their stuff works only in the presence of Orks. You need the Waaagh effect to make it work or else...BOOOOOM!

Try using that Shoota somewhere where Orks aren't. It will fall apart.

>> No.23266677

>>23266486

I said if enough orks believe. If one ork belive, who cares. if 10 billion believe then you are going to have some exploding fucking rocks on your hands.

> in all truth ork guns *should* explode after continuous use, however the gestalt field alters things so that's not the case.

thank you for agreeing with me.

also, fluff state that when imperial engineers examine ork technology they find the is no reason it should work. the faith of the ork WAAGH keeps that big mech walking even if its only powered by coal

fact is we are both right

>> No.23266691

>>23266548
>red truks go faster because ork psykic hivemind thinks they go faster.
Or because the ork mek thinks he built two identical trukks but minor things like fuel quality can create tiny enough differences that most orks cant explain so it must be 'red wunz go fasta' rather than "heh, there was a small difference that made this one slightly better".

That bit of fluff is always referred to - and the tabletop difference for the rule is *one fucking inch* of movement.

>Imperial engineers try n find out how ork machines like big mechs are constructed and actually work, and it turns out they only work due to the Orks blind faith that they will work.

CITATIONS WHERE, Orks aren't stupid, they know how to build fucking spaceships - all of this knowledge being in their DNA is *ALSO IN THE CODEX*. Orks 'believing in something' doesnt enable the function if it didn't function in the first place. Belief doesn't cause orks to turn dead cats into atom bombs.

As said earlier, orks are a litmus test for whether or not the person you're dealing with is a retard or not in 40k, if they try to claim some of this unsupported shit is actual truth and couldn't possibly work any other way (like you have) you're dealing with a literal retard.

>> No.23266707

>>23266459
This, I always field a wierdboy and if he doesn't explode my game wasn't a success.

>> No.23266711

>>23266623
It's been confirmed that the Farsught Enclave hires their services to Orks sometimes.

>> No.23266720

>>23266398
General consensus is roughly that the WAAAGH! field merely accounts for the shoddy workmanship and lack of proper maintenance of ork technology. It does not magically make a soap box painted red into a Ferrari, but it will keep the engine running longer without oil and half the cylinders shot to hell. Stuff like that. A regular human should be perfectly capable of taking a shoota, taking it apart, oiling it up and fixing some of the bigger problems, and get it to work without exploding in your face.

>> No.23266725

>>23266675
>Try using that Shoota somewhere where Orks aren't. It will fall apart.
Kinda like Yarrick's Klaw fell apart between 2 and 3 war on Armageddon. Oh wait.

>> No.23266740

>>23266381
Chaos lore, as in comprehensive knowledge, is virtually unknown, yes.

Chaos lore, as 'these words mean heresy, these merit passing the matter to proper authorities, and these imply it's time to call in the =][=', is another matter.

So, while an Imperial commander might not know that Slaanesh is a god, he would know that his name is one of the first words on any such list, Imperium-wide.

>> No.23266741

>>23266675
Give me a few minuets I'll find you the quote that literally states that when other races try using ork tech it more often than not just explodes or falls apart.

>> No.23266759

>>23266675
>Their stuff works only in the presence of Orks. You need the Waaagh effect to make it work or else...BOOOOOM!
>Try using that Shoota somewhere where Orks aren't. It will fall apart.
You have fluff examples of course? You wouldn't just make it up, would you?

>> No.23266771

>>23266677
>I said if enough orks believe. If one ork belive, who cares. if 10 billion believe then you are going to have some exploding fucking rocks on your hands.

You're not getting it are you. Ork belief doesn't cause things that they know shouldn't function like that to function in ways that they shouldn't.

>> No.23266803

>>23266556

>Tyranids called and said that it's unfair that they had to fight tau, eldar and ultramarines all at the same time.

The hive fleet was so huge that it attacked several different sectors at once.
Are you trying to tell me Tau and space marines stood shoulder to shoulder on the field of battle to fight Tau

are you telling me Space Marines ignored their entire religion or persecuting Xenos?

>Just like orks working with chaos, space marines, eldar, imperial guard, grey knights or almost any other faction, all of which have canon fluff examples to draw from, most of which boil down to "Someone told the orks there'd be a good fight here, so the orks were like 'thanks, we'll krump dem den we'll krump you - cuz orks iz best".

Tau/Ork allied together is actually my favorite army to play, its just really hrd to justify fluff wise.

and no, the Grey knight would never ally with orks.

If you have good canon example of orks and Tau fighting side by side, please share them, i would like to read them

>> No.23266812

>>23266725
That's fanwanked to possibly be because Yarrick actually generates his own field of WAAGH due to the Orks' regard for and fear of him.

>> No.23266857

>>23266771
>that they know shouldn't function like that
Well that's because they're not believing hard enough.

If you had the Eldar come down to a WAAAAGH of Orks, give them an intricate space-jewel that's gussed up to look like a grenade, and tell them that it's an Eldar grenade, if enough Orks start believing that, the Eldar space rock WILL be a grenade.

>> No.23266858

>>23266812
>fanwank
Well there you fucking go. That's all it is.

>> No.23266860

>>23266565

could work yes.
only races I see as impossible to ally with Tau are the Inquisition. fluff could be bent for even Space Marine to put aside their differences with Tau to fight a common enemy (less allies and more "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" type situation)

>> No.23266877

>>23266803
>Are you trying to tell me Tau and space marines stood shoulder to shoulder on the field of battle to fight Tau

Yes, because it has happened canonically. Blood angels have fucking worked with necrons to fight things. Ultramarines and Tau get along fairly well when other threats are around. Ultramarines are listed as allies for the tau.

>are you telling me Space Marines ignored their entire religion or persecuting Xenos?
It has happened plenty of times, there are tons of canonical references for it.

>the Grey knight would never ally with orks.
Except it's happened before.

>> No.23266881

>>23266812
Yarrick is sort of a honorary ork. They even let him go once, because they knew that fighting Imperials on Armageddon is much more fun when he is in charge.

>> No.23266894

>>23266857
>rampant speculation with no basis in cannon, logic or fact.

Your headcanon isn't actual canon.

>> No.23266903

>>23266803
>just really hrd to justify fluff wise.


Take some Orks, and some Tau bits.

Gives some Orks some shoddy-looking Tau tech. Maybe have an Ork holding a drone and making the drone shoot.

Kitbash a Mega-Armored Nob and a Crisis Suit.

BAM

You have some Ork Boyz who decided to join the Greater Good so they could have access to better technology with which to shoot shit.

>> No.23266912

>>23266858
So desperate. I like it.

>> No.23266914

>>23266741
Have fun looking.

Meanwhile, just look at the Only War rulebook, where Ork weapons are perfectly usable by human characters. The only difference is that they're more prone to jamming when used by by somebody who's not an ork.

>> No.23266922

>>23266894
Except the part where it's stated in the canon to work exactly like that.

>> No.23266928

>>23266623

Feral Orks and Feral Tau!!!!

Tau were tribal, hand to hand combat fighters before the intervention of the Etherials.

how cool would it be to have savage, ork allied fire warriors.

I like your thinking good sir and with to see Tau with warpaint wielding spears n shit

>> No.23266936

>>23266812
Thats how I view it. Yarrick is the only humie who knows how to fight. Orks now powerklaws are dead killy and Yarrick is dead killy. So Yarrick can use a power klaw. At least, that is what the Orks believe.

I'm ok with that explination. I like it more than some Imperial techs working on the klaw to make it functional. That is more boring and lacks the flair that 40k should have.

>> No.23266950

>>23266922
Then it should not be difficult for you to actually find that part.

>> No.23266952

>>23266922
Oh? where please - if it's such a canon thing you must be able to drag up citations for it, and even then there's a ton of fluff that completely contradicts it, like only war rulebooks.

>> No.23267007

>>23266914
>Ork weapons are perfectly usable by human characters. The only difference is that they're more prone to jamming when used by by somebody who's not an ork.
This. Listen to this guy. Waaagh improves ork technology if there is enough orks around using it, it doesn't doesn't turn random objects into grenades.

>> No.23267084

>>23266936
Or it's because ork meks aren't drooling retards and just have, y'know, managed to build a functional power weapon.

>> No.23267085

>>23266691

I bet you play Space Marines...

>Or because the ork mek thinks he built two identical trukks but minor things like fuel quality can create tiny enough differences that most orks cant explain so it must be 'red wunz go fasta' rather than "heh, there was a small difference that made this one slightly better".
Fuels the retarded faith, and that extra inch makes all the difference to me.

>CITATIONS WHERE
dont have em, read it in a codex somewhere and not willin to look it up.

Also, you dont have to be stupid to have faith.
the variation in the quality of ork technology varies to the extreme. some orks have guns that rip holes in the fabric of reality, other go into battle with slingshots...

Orks are the only army in the 40K universe that are "for the lulz"

the psykic hivemind exists so i could potentially field an army that throws rocks. i merely have to say the rocks have the same accuracy and effectiveness as shootas. it give common ground to ridiculous ideas and allows them to work.

this is why i like orks. also cuz i makes fanboyz rage.

i love destroying marine armies without fielding a single shoota and watchiung fanboys rage

fact is we are both right, i just have more fun customizing and remodeling my army than you

>> No.23267106

>>23266922
You're on so thin ice you're basically doing a very good Jesus impersonation.


The development team said in WD320 that the background merely sets up the world without definite closure, allowing players to use it to make their games, armies and campaigns. Cypher's goals, relationship between Dragon and Admech, etc. are all left intentionally vague and there's huge gaps for you to insert your armies into.

But that does not mean your headcanon is canon. Several BL authors have talked about what they can and can't do. For example they often have to work within the fluff given by the studio codexes and rulebooks, while the studio doesn't have to give two shits about what's been written in FW or BL books and can freely even contradict these, because they're the fucking studio that's making the game and pretty much everything else revolves around them. BL authors are free to pick and choose what they write about. ADB said that he doesn't like the Dreadknight and isn't gonna put it into his novels.

>> No.23267153

>>23266881

THIS IS WHY I LOVE ORKS

"youre fun to fight, we're gonna let u go so we can fight again later"

mother fuckin orks, gotta love em

>> No.23267170

>>23267084
Either way. He just slapped it onto himself and it started working. Yes, meks can make working machines. However they tend to be a bit unreliable in non-Ork hands. So either the klaw needs to be retro-fitted to work reliably and for a human or it works because Yarrick is badass enough in Ork eyes for it to work.

Where is your sense of fun? You know, the reason people play games.

>> No.23267188

>>23267085
So as you cannot be bothered to prove your assertion (you're passing up the burden of proof) you're admitting to forfeiting the argument? Good to know that you're a retard who cant actually provide evidence when it's called for.

>> No.23267190

>>23266903

I've actually done this before, make for an awesome army.

my friend just likes to poke hole in my fluff cuz he is tried of me rolling over his marines like they were kroot

>> No.23267199

are tau really that bad? i want to make a tau army, should i wait until after the update to see if theyre better then? or should i just go dark eldar?

>> No.23267223

Wait, so now we've moved away from "ork guns work only in ork hands" and past "ork guns work near orks" and have firmly landed in the territory of "if orks believe the weapon you're holding to work, it'll work no matter where you are"?

Then shouldn't a shoota taken from an ork still work perfectly fine, because don't orks still believe the gun to be operational and this effect should carry on even after the orks are long gone and the weapon is in the Imperium's hands?

Also, isn't it indicated that Kroot at some point ate a bunch of orks and got plenty of their technological knowledge from them, but if ork tech is shit, then either ork tech is not totally shit or Kroot generate a WAAAGH! field as well.

>> No.23267249

>>23267199
Don't choose an army based on how good they are in the meta, that only leads to tears. Go by how much you like their style and fluff primarily.
If you do go for Tau, it's probably a good idea to wait until the new codex hits so you don't stock up on units that end up being worse or even phased out.

>> No.23267251

>>23267223
People are moving goalpoasts cause they hate to be wrong.

>> No.23267273

>>23267188
I actually agree with you,but that goddamn chart ist just autism.txt

>> No.23267276

>>23267199
Tau are cool if you're into armies focued more on ranged combat than melee. Imperial Guard are similar but heavier on vehicles and artillery, and Necrons are shooty too but move about as fast as a stoned tortoise.

>> No.23267279

>>23267223
>then either ork tech is not totally shit

"Then shouldn't Kroot tech also be totally shit" is what I was suppose to type.

>> No.23267291

>>23267223
>>23267251
special pleading fallacy

>>23267273
It's worth having on hand because people don't fucking understand how to debate shit rationally on the internet.

>> No.23267296

>>23267279
>Then shouldn't Kroot tech also be totally shit
For the most part it is

>> No.23267297

>>23267188
>that chart

so much autism.

>> No.23267307

>>23267188
Fuck the other guy, I disagree with you on principle. You're a faggot. Orks are a magic race. They use the warp like anyone else. They have two major gods in the immaterium. Yes, if an ork paints a trukk red, it will go faster. Not because he subconcsiously painted it red due to it having slight variations in how it was made. It's a trukk. He wants it to go faster. It's magic. The Waaagh psychic field. It is no more wrong than you according to canon.

>> No.23267322

>'Similarly, many captured Ork weapons and items of equipment should not work, and indeed do not work unless wielded by an Ork.'

>Look inside shoota.
>"Yeah, I guess it could work."
>Try to fire shoota.
>"It works. Next."

>Look inside shoota.
>"It shouldn't work."
>Try to fire shoota.
>"It doesn't work."
>Give shoota to Ork, who successfully fires it.
>"Holy shit, it works."

>And so on.

>> No.23267340

>>23267307
>Magic exists therefor everything must be magical and nothing should be grounded in reality.

>> No.23267343

>>23267188
>athiemresource

>DEBATEMEIMATHIESTXD.jpg

You're a gigantic faggot! :D

>> No.23267350

>>23267251
It's funny because the only ones "moving goalposts" seem to be the anons that don't like ork magic.

>> No.23267355

>>23267188

fact is i dont actually care as much as you

also, were are arguing about made up stories over a fictional game.

the whole point of the Orks is that they are the only army that doesnt have to make sense.

I can use the codex to field a squad of 'shoota boyz', bu model them to be armed with big ass rocks instead of guns.

I can then go and make up fluff stating that these orks specialize in rock tecnology and have little to no access to metal. they have train with rocks for years and are capable of throwing them with enough force that the thrown rocks operate under the same rules as shootas. prooze me wrong.

Orks are pretty much the only army capable of doing this. all im saying is the psykic hivemind reference is a justification for this.

I want to have fun while playing and modeling 40k instead of adhering to strict rigid rules and chapter designs. this is why i play orks

>> No.23267362

>>23266903
>Orks join greater good
I have a problem with that. Greater good eventually leads to no krumpin.

Ork mercs work much better IMO

>> No.23267382

>>23267340
You're only pretending to be retarded, right? Besides, I started off by calling that anon a faggot. According to the new fallacy fad going around, anything in that post should be disregarded.

>> No.23267386

>>23267355
>I can use the codex to field a squad of 'shoota boyz', bu model them to be armed with big ass rocks instead of guns.
>I can then go and make up fluff stating that these orks specialize in rock tecnology and have little to no access to metal. they have train with rocks for years and are capable of throwing them with enough force that the thrown rocks operate under the same rules as shootas. prooze me wrong.

>I'm a retard and a juvenile troll cause I lost a debate prove me wrong.

Pretty butthurt here aren't we.

>> No.23267401

>>23267291

>debating made up stories over rules in a made up game
>Logical argument

cool story bro

>> No.23267411

>>23267362
Obviously the orks would join with the caveat (karve-it-up?) that they'll just krump the greater good itself once it doesn't lead to any more krumping.

>> No.23267464

>>23267307

This guy. YES

fact is: It is magic.

srry if thats not a logical argument, but its a fact, consistent as gravity.

how do imperiam space ships navigate through the warp?
why does the warp exist?
how do choas survive in the warp?
why do the choas gods exist?
why do the orks gods exist?

its all fucking magic, whether u want it to be or not

>> No.23267469

>>23267362
Just because the Boyz SAY that they want to help the Greater Good, doesn't mean they mean it.

Once the Krumpin stops (read: never), they'll start Krumpin' da blueberries.

>> No.23267479

>>23267340
WAAAGH! field can make subtle changes to reality to bend it to how the Orks view it. Its not like we are saying all Orks are wizards and shit.

>> No.23267481

>>23267386
It may surprise you, but many people don't care about being right on the internet. Yes, you've just found out about logical fallacies, rationality and proper debating manners and all that, but the point is that there's a time and a place for that.
Some thread on an anonymous message board that is about the pecularities of the technology and magic of a fictional race of greenskins is neither.

>> No.23267484

>>23267386
>>I'm a retard and a juvenile troll cause I lost a debate prove me wrong.

Except that's wrong. Everything he stated in his post could indeed be justified because of the vague nature of GW fluff.

>> No.23267488

>>23267350
I'm all for Ork magic, I'm just trying to figure out what we're debating here, since the opposition seems to be switching their stance all the time.

So ork magic makes things work and, according to the original claim, only work for orks. But at the same time there's a ton of cases of ork stuff working for non-orks, which moved the stance to "well, they're around orks". Then you have ork tech working where there's no orks anywhere near them, and it's "yeah, but the orks believe that it works, so it works no matter where it is".

So ork magic makes ork guns work for orks and orks alone, except when a non-ork is using it near orks or orks believe the non-ork's ork gun to be functional, no matter where they may be?

>> No.23267492

>>23267362

not joining the greater good: getting paid for a big fun fight

they dont have to be "loyal", they just have to fight and die...

>> No.23267523

>>23267488
>So ork magic makes ork guns work for orks and orks alone, except when a non-ork is using it near orks or orks believe the non-ork's ork gun to be functional, no matter where they may be?


Yes. This is how Orks as a race function.

You know that reaction image, it's magic I ain't gotta explain shit?

WAAAAAAAGH

ITZ ORKS I AINT GOTTA EXPLAIN SHIT YA GIT

>> No.23267533

>>23267355
Shootas might be a stretch but I would totally accept that for slugga boys. Less range and can be used as a melee weapon.

Shootas can be slingshots or something to make up for the greater range.

Big wooden barrel killa kans with grotzookas too. Because grotzookas already shoot out rocks and shit.

>> No.23267538

>>23267386

>cant prove me wrong so resort to calling me butthurt juvenille troll

feral orks use wooden spears, but they operate under the same rules as choppas. therefor i can field an ork army that can kill marine with wooden spears...

seriously, prove me wrong. it operates under codex rules, but im having fun with the modeling

>> No.23267552

>>23267188

>> No.23267612

>>23267552
So yeah, the waagh is a thing that exists. That wasn't ever a point of contention though?

>> No.23267617

>>23267188

>>23267538
>RETARDED STATEMENT PROVE ME WRONG, I WIN.
That's not how debates go. You're the one asserting the position that ork magic can turn rocks in to grenades / shoota, and simple spears into power weapons therefor you have to provide proof for it (and 'well i modeled my army this way isn't proof, thats just you referencing headcanon). You actually need to prove said position with citeable referenceable sources in order for it to count for anything (note: i saw it in a codex once but i cant be bothered to go reference it isn't proof, that's basically just going 'i dont need evidence').

>> No.23267619

>>23267488
Orks know how to build shit. Just sometimes its unreliable or is missing something to make it functional. The WAAAGH! field smooths over those imperfections when used by Orks. Some ork tech works regardless of whether or not there are Orks around, but its just not safe to use. Other stuff won't work. Like a shoota that is missing a firing pin. That small problem can be fixed with the WAAAGH! but not something as drastic as turning rocks into grenades.

Yarrick is special because he is viewed so highly by the Orks that he might have is own WAAAGH! field around him, allowing his power klaw to work reliably.

>> No.23267675

>>23267188
>>23267612
More to come. Probably doesn't clear up shit, this thread has just gotten awfully similar to one in the foolz archive where people were posting similarly retarded arguments.

Orks are a litmus test for whether or not people are retards - like "ORKS R FOR TEH LULZ, THEY USE MAGIC TO MAKE EVERYTHING WERK" guy here.

>> No.23267704

>>23267523
But then why do people insist that ork stuff only works for -orks because of ork magic and in the hands of non-orks it's just a piece of plumbing?

>> No.23267705

>>23267488

yes and no. its a serious grey area.

the variation in the levels of ork technology means some ork stuff can function in the hands of humans cuz it is well manufactured.

poorly manufactured tech can operate on the same level and efficiency in the hands of an ork, but not in the hands of a human.

Shoota and Choppa are not 1 specific weapon, but an umbrella term for ranged and bludgeoning weapons. a choppa can be an axe, a sword, a club, even a rock. but it all operates under the choppa rule. same with shootas, some are black powder operated, some are laser, some are flechette, some can be slingshots, but they all operate under the same 'shoota' rule

the simplest justification for this is "ork magic"

>> No.23267714

>>23266149
All basic infantry with out of the box weapon options, only a few heavy weapon squads and some field artillery. Not Death Corps.
It sucks fantastically against everything but other massed infantry armies with few hard targets, or other poorly balanced armies.

But playing the Somme in 40k is fun sometimes.

>> No.23267726

>>23267188
>>23267552
>>23267617
>>23267675
I'm just going to post the Anzion thing, since I doubt most of the people who argue about it (both for and against) have actually read it. Source is Codex: Orks 3rd edition.

>Ref: AdMech/0115242004/GW
>Author: Genetor Lukas Anzion
>Title: Chapter XVII: Genetic predetermination – Hereditary skill acquisition within the Ork caste and professional social structure.

>It has long been known that the psychological aspects of a human are, in part, determined by their genetic heritage. Certain geno-types are disposed towards pre-determined personality traits which, in turn, inform the process of learning and aptitude. In Orks this genetic predetermination is also present, though in a different and even more pronounced fashion. It appears that not only is aptitude towards certain aspects of the culture present in the gene-structure, actual skills and knowledge are also encoded into the genetic strand.

>The best analogy one can think of is to compare this knowledge with the basic motor skills present in a human child. A human child does not have to be taught how to breathe, how to make its heart beat or how to employ the many thousands of other biological functions that are already operating at the time of birth. In a similar way, an Ork predisposed towards science and mechanics [Meks] has an encoded knowledge of basic physics and mechanical engineering theory. However, this knowledge is as subconscious as the baby’s ability to breathe; it is an unconscious competence in whatever field the individual is created for. In the same way that a child can learn to alter their breathing, hold their breath or, through exercise, improve the capacity of their lungs and vascular system, so too can an Ork build upon these innate skills through the normal process of learning. The two major skill groups created in this fashion are the castes known as Doks and Meks.

>> No.23267742

>>23267188
>>23267552
>>23267617
>>23267675
>>23267726
>Doks are the Orkoid medical experts, who have a rough and ready knowledge of Orkoid xenological composition. Due to the hardiness of Ork physiognomy, Ork surgical and medical techniques are as crude but effective as the rest of their technology. Wounds can be easily stitched tight with wire or stapled, while broken bones need little in the way of setting to speed the healing process. Internal injuries are similarly treated, and the multiple redundancy of many Ork organs also provides plenty of transplant donors for those in need of such measures [although the donation is not always made voluntarily, particularly where the casualty is an important member of the society]. Orks are generally loathe to undergo medical treatment. This is for two reasons. Firstly, many Orks consider such an activity as a sign of weakness, and there is a strong compulsion throughout Ork society for natural selection to take its course – the weak must die out so that the spores of the stronger may thrive and grow into stronger Orks. Secondly, the gene-determination of Doks imbues them with a highly active curiosity, coupled with a callous disregard for the well-being of those they treat. Many Doks see surgery and treatment as a means for experimentation upon their patient, and often Orks undergo horrendous and entirely unnecessary surgical procedures to satisfy the Dok’s inquisitiveness or as a trial for a new procedure of prosthetic. Such treatments are not tested in any scientific manner before their employment and horribly disabling injuries can result from such procedures.

>> No.23267751

>>23267617
He just fucking gave you evidence. Feral Orks.

>that's not how debates go
>this isn't how arguing goes
>i just discovered logical fallacies
>baw

you're a faggot.

>> No.23267758

>>23267188
>>23267552
>>23267617
>>23267675
>>23267726
>>23267742
>Meks are similarly driven to experimentation, although in the field of mechanical rather than medical science. Much of the weaponry and wargear used by the Orks, as well as more mundane artefacts, are designed and built by the Meks. As much of their knowledge is subconscious, the vast majority of Meks never truly understand what they are creating, or the exact functions of how they work. As Orks are poor rationalists, this can lead to rather unlikely conventions.

>For example , it is widely believed by Orks that machines painted in a red colour operate faster. This could have come about by the following situation. A Mek builds two vehicles which, as far as it is aware of, are exactly the same except for the fact that one is painted red and the other yellow. However, due to some unseen variation in fuel, lubrication, or some other factor, the red vehicle in fact travels faster. To the Ork, the only conceivable explanation for this is that the vehicle travels faster because it is red.

>However, as disturbing as it sounds, these ‘facts’ become true. Red Ork vehicles do travel perceptibly faster than those of other colours, even when all other design aspects are nominally the same. Similarly, many captured Ork weapons and items of equipment should not work, and indeed do not work unless wielded by an Ork. I believe this is linked to the strong psychic aura surrounding all Orkoids and have developed the Anzion Theorem of Orkoid Mechamorphic Resonant Kinetics. I theorise that many Ork inventions work because the Orks themselves think that they should work. The strong telekinetic abilities of the Orks’ subconscious somehow ensure that the machinery or weaponry functions as desired.

>As astounding as it may be, we cannot make any other conclusion based on the evidence to hand.

Source, 3e codex orks.

>> No.23267783

>>23267533

I agree. certain things are harder to justify than other, i was just using an example.

The level of customization orks can have is what makes them appealing to those who want to customize their models

I make ork 'ard boyz by chopping up soda cans and turning it into awesome looking makeshift armor. I dont have to spend the extra money to buy "games workshop offical 'ard boyz boxed set"

>> No.23267789

>>23267675
>Orks are a litmus test for whether or not people are retards

Oh boy you sound like such a cool guy to hang out with.

>>23267704
ORKS

AINT GOTTA EXPLAIN SHIT

>> No.23267797

>>23267675
How can you be this much of a faggot? You've changed nothing. Orks don't toss rocks and make them explode. But the red ones still go faster. Orks have flown a ship without fuel long past the point where it would have fallen. Ork weaponry is still perfect in ork hands. They're still one of the psychic races.

Why all this? Just to show some random anon that orks can't make rocks explode?

>> No.23267802

>>23267751
Oh? where does it say that feral ork spears are power weapons in codex? That sounds more like a modeling choice that may not actually reflect canon - ie, it's such shaky ground that it cannot be said to accurately prove anything.

>> No.23267844

>>23267797
>Why all this?

Because autism.

>> No.23267847

>tau thread
>devolves into retarded orkz arguments

>> No.23267855

>>23267789
>Oh boy you sound like such a cool guy to hang out with.

But it's true, orks are a litmus test for whether or not people are retards. The kind of people that spout shit like 'orks can turn rocks into grenades and dead cats into atombombs' are essentially warhammers /b/ rejects and not worth time or attention. They're loud retards and attention whores.

>> No.23267883

>>23267617

>You're the one asserting the position that ork magic can turn rocks in to grenades / shoota, and simple spears into power weapons

nope sorry, show me where i said that...

show me where it says i cant model an army armed with rocks that operate under the same rules as shootas? never said anything about rocks as power weapons. feral orks dont have power weapons...

you are now only attacking my ability to debate. this isnt a debate... ork tech operate with a certain degree of "MAGIC" dead with it

magic exists in the 40K universe

>> No.23267901

>>23267797
The thread was nothing but people arguing opinions before this shit was posted, now there's an actual reference point for how wildly off base certain opinions are.

>> No.23267902

>>23267726
>I'm just going to post the Anzion thing, since I doubt most of the people who argue about it (both for and against) have actually read it. Source is Codex: Orks 3rd edition.

Woah, I'm the guy who posted the passage with that line back in this thread:

http://archive.foolz.us/tg/thread/23073900/#23074245

Seeing my own words again freaked me out for a moment.

>> No.23267906

>>23267802
I just got here, am I missing something? I haven't seen anyone claim that feral ork spears are power weapons, just that they're choppas.

>> No.23267952

>>23267789
You're not an ork, start explaining.

You can't say ork guns work ONLY for orks and the wave off all the evidence in the contrary off with "magic". Evidence shows ork guns working in the hands of non-orks, thus ork guns do work in the hands of non-orks, whether this is due to the fact that they're built well enough or ork magic has saturated the area. But in either way, "ork guns only work in ork hands" arguments been busted long ago. Now it's more about whether or not it's all purely because of ork magic or what.

>> No.23267960

>>23267883
You can do whatever you want with modeling. It may not accurately reflect fluff however, and it shouldn't ever be used to try and prove anything. You're off on a tangent and trying to distract from the actual issue at hand - the one you were wrong about.

>> No.23267962

>>23267802

you are the only one talking about power weapons... no one else said anything about spears being power weapons.

I said spears operate under the same rules as choppas

Choppa=/=power weapon

>> No.23267986

>>23267883
Stop dissembling, you're getting wildly off topic from your actual issue with something completely unrelated. Modeling choices != ORK MAGIC SAYZ ROCKS ARE GRENADES.

>> No.23267992

>>23267855
>But it's true, orks are a litmus test for whether or not people are retards.

>this guy likes having fun!
>in a game!
>must be a retard

>> No.23268057

>>23267952
Magic.

Aint gotta explain shit.

>> No.23268066

>>23267992
>hurr lets misrepresent someones statements further.

It's more of "would I want to hang out with someone who despite being wrong is still emphatic enough to argue *loudly* about certain fluff?". By all means you're fully allowed to get your kicks by being a retard, you just shouldn't expect others to not judge you for it when they see it happening.

>> No.23268118

>>23267960

>You can do whatever you want with modeling. It may not accurately reflect fluff however, and it shouldn't ever be used to try and prove anything. You're off on a tangent and trying to distract from the actual issue at hand - the one you were wrong about.

so you agree with me...ok, herre we go.

If i can give my ork a wooden spear and say it represents an ork choppa, the logic dictate i can also give him a bag of rocks and state that it counts as a stick-grenade.

since grenades in 40k serve only to drive enemies from cover and do no actual damage to model. therefore i can have rocks count as grenades.

fluff justifying this could be: hitting marines in the face with a rock is distracting and annoying enough for them to keep their heads down for 2-3 seconds, during which my orks can rush the cover.

now, what part about what i am saying is wrong? if none, then for orks rocks=grenades.

>> No.23268134

>>23267355
>I can be as much of a retard as I want and you cant stop me! look at me being wrong doesn't it make you mad HAHAHA IM A MASTER TROLL.

Okay.

>> No.23268146

>>23267986

see>>23268118

for rocks=grenades expalination

>> No.23268186

>>23268134

not master troll, perfectly legal under ork codex rules, look it up my friend

>> No.23268209

>>23268118
What does this have to do with anything?

Are you still trying to say modeling choices represent fluff through some convuluted means?

>> No.23268232

>>23268118
You're still off topic, and you're still being a retard.

>> No.23268245

>>23266740
Then it's possible for an Imperial commander to think a Chaos Marine/Greater Daemon/whatever he is facing that day is Slaanesh.

>> No.23268277

>>23268118
>I chose to model something this way, therefore through some goofy reverse logic comprehendible only by me, canon ork fluff states that rocks are grenades... or something? I'm really not attempting to make any sense here

>> No.23268278

>>23268232

you're not even arguing, you're just alling me a retard lol. way to argue there champ

also, perfectly on topic, you said prove how orks could use rocks as grenades, i have proven how rocks can be used as grenades

suck it bitch
ORKZ IS NEVER BEATEN IN BATTLE!!!

>> No.23268279

>>23268066
First of all, when have I ever argued *loudly* about any fluff?

I haven't, because I'm not a faggot. I don't argue about stupid shit like this in real life.

Second.

>By all means you're fully allowed to get your kicks by being a retard, you just shouldn't expect others to not judge you for it when they see it happening.

Oh no, people looking down on me for wanting to have fun in a game! Whatever will I do!

Yeah, nah, you're a faggot.

>> No.23268329

>>23268278
You're under the presumption that that it's only one person stating that you're being a retard. You're trying to apply some goofy nonsense that each time you present it is further and further removed from what the initial debate was about. You are literally being as retarded as possible by stepping further and further away from the initial debate and trying to apply some nonsense reverse logic.

>> No.23268360

>>23268277

prove it wrong...
I have show you with facts how rocks can equal grenades for orks

Orks are the only army in 40k that doesnt need to make sense.

>resort to name calling instead of using facts or supporting arguments

I could just copy your debate style and call you a retard over and over again
retard

>> No.23268373

>>23268278
That's not proof though, as it has no basis in anything other than your modeling choices - which aren't canon.

>> No.23268404

>>23268329
>You're under the presumption that that it's only one person stating that you're being a retard.

That's because it is, and we both know it.

>> No.23268405

>>23268329

>cant think of anyway to refute argument
>you must be a retard
>repeat retard accumulation in vain attempt to cover up the fact u have no actual argument left

your a retard, see i can do it too. nothing is achieved

>> No.23268424

>>23268066
>this guy disagrees with me
>must be a retard

whatever you say, retard.

>> No.23268425

>>23268360
You said orks can throw rocks at peoples faces. This makes them work as grenades on the table but not in the fluff. A big thing about grenades is that they explode or release something. A rock is still a rock even if you throw it at someones face. Its not going to explode.

So yes, it works on the table but not the fluff.

>> No.23268428

>>23268360
You'd have to prove it right in the first place in order for it to be proven wrong. The stuff you've said has no basis in anything resembling canon and isn't valid as proof in any form.

>> No.23268492

>>23268428
>that picture

Except you obviously do have time for this nonsense, or you wouldn't be posting.

>> No.23268538

>>23268492
>there's only one person on /tg/ who could possibly think i'm wrong.

>> No.23268550

>>23268373

Playing an ork army requires customization

no model existed for a closed cab trukk, so must customize one.

no model exist for a Big Mech Titan, so i must Customize one.

codex even states that battlewagons come in all shapes and sizes and are usually made from looted imperial vehicles.

as far as ork models and vehicles go, as long as it fits the rules and specs, its good to field on the table.

you are the one with no proof or basis here other than "because i say so"

>> No.23268568

My idea was to give the vespids a giant wasp or something as a flyer then one the tau made and give amour to kroot

>> No.23268595

>>23268538
What?

Assuming you're
>>23268428
You posted a picture that says that you have no time for this nonsense.

But you're still posting.

So you obviously have time for this nonsense.

>> No.23268617

>>23268568
We're not talking about Tau. We're talking about Orks.

Get out.

>> No.23268618

it seems like you guys are arguing about completely different subjects....

>> No.23268632

>>23268550
So because there's no tabletop representation of something means that your headcanon is somehow an accurate representation of canon fluff in all cases?

>I couldnt find grenade bitz, so i gave them rocks, they throw them at space marines faces on tabletop, this means that rocks in fluff are actually grenades too! LOLOLOL XD SO RANDUMB.

You're still getting further and further away from the initial argument. There's nothing to prove here anymore because everything you're saying is nonsense.

>> No.23268661

hey fag im op and its my post and its about Tau

>> No.23268666

>>23268425

anything that works on the table has to be justified with fluff. you have admitted it works on the table, so therefore it can work with fluff.

also, fluff is just made up BS about your models to add depth of story. none of these things actually exist...

i could say my comander has collected the heads of over 10,00,000 foes, it still wont make a diference, fluff is basically meaningless

also, ork fluff has the "ork magic" clause meaning if i cant justify it in fluff, i can say "ork magic" and it is justified.

>>23268428
so you are saying i cant have models with rocks that operate under the same rules as frag grenades?
in order to debate u actually have to use things like 'facts' and 'supporting arguments' which i have used

:p

>> No.23268735

>>23268666
HAHAHAHAHAHA oh my god my sides..this argument is hilarious

>> No.23268737

>>23268666
>XD SO RANDUMB, MY REVERSE LOGIC IS FLAWLESS DESPITE THE GAPING HOLES IN IT.

You're being a retard. Quit it.

>> No.23268777

>>23268632
we have covered the cannon fluff justification tho...

"ORK MAGIC"

the argument was about whether orks could use grenades as rocks. i have used facts and supporting arguments to show exactly how orks could use rocks as grenades...

basically what your arguing here now is "your opinion is wrong"

Orks are unique in the 40k universe as they really dont need to explain much.

"ork magic" pretty much covers all arguments fluff related.

just like how u can say navigators use the dead emperors psychic field to navigate the warp...

>> No.23268802

>>23268737

>XD SO RANDUMB, MY NAME CALLING IS FLAWLESS DESPITE THE GAPING HOLES IN IT.

You're being a retard. Quit it.

>> No.23268803

>>23268666
>ignores everything that says he's wrong, because its inconvenient. claims through some sort of reverse-logic canon fluff warps 100% completely and quantifiably to modeling choices. Doesn't realize that multiple people have called him on being completely retarded. Is still completely off on a wild tangent that has nothing to do with the initial debate.

>> No.23268809

>>23268735
>>23268737
>I have no argument
>looks like I gotta call this guy a retard to look smart

We're done here.

>> No.23268816

>>23268777
>i have used facts and supporting arguments
No basis in canon whatsoever. They're not facts.

>> No.23268825

>>23268666
But....that....are you even trying to make a good argument here?

I'm trying to be nice and agree with you that you can use rocks on the table and they serve the porpose of genades because as you said in >>23268118
>fluff justifying this could be: hitting marines in the face with a rock is distracting and annoying enough for them to keep their heads down for 2-3 seconds, during which my orks can rush the cover.

I agree with that. That works. Saying that rocks magically explode does not. You are misreading what that WAAAGH! field does. It doesn't create something out of nothing. It just bends reality a bit closer to how Orks view it.

And yes, I am an Ork player and I love the WAAAGH! field.

>> No.23268830

>>23268809

glad the only other person who knows how to debate is on my side

>> No.23268842

>>23265512
>Tau fill an important and unique niche thematically, aesthetically and mechanically.
Not... Not really. They honestly don't fit as they are right now.

>> No.23268860

>>23268777
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fact?s=t

Facts are quantifiable, measurable, empirical sources of data. Everything you have said has no basis in the actual 40k canon, and thus is not a fact.

>> No.23268865

>>23268777
>Orks are unique in the 40k universe as they really dont need to explain much.

>"ork magic" pretty much covers all arguments fluff related.

I think you are thinking about Chaos. Orks don't have that strong of an effect on reality

>> No.23268879

Rocks = Stikkbombs

I'm willing to accept almost anything, i love orks, i love converting.

But this is just fucking stupid, unless someone actually modeled it REALLY nicely, with clusters of greenstuff rocks, and slingshots, and rocksacks and shit, and it was fully painted and everything, i'd let them use it, i guess.


You guys know Snakebites have Cyboars and sluggas, right? you don't need to build shitty looking rock weapons, they use limited tech.

>> No.23268894

>>23268809
There is no argument because is statement is so stupid it baffles the mind, Its not him winning, its them giving up.

>> No.23268916

>>23268777
You don't seem to understand what constitutes a 'fact' in this argument. A 'fact' in the sense of this debate must come from canon 40k fluff, as the fluff contradicts quite frequently, the fact that has both more support in fluff and more basis in reason shall be considered 'more true' than the less supported one.

Nothing you have referenced in any way comes from canon fluff in 40k.

>> No.23268929

>>23268865
Oh yeah?

40K is the way it is noe because of the Orks. There is only War because the Orks will it!

>> No.23268954

>>23268825
>Saying that rocks magically explode does not.

In a fictional world with Daemons, KAYOSS, the warp, Gods of KAYOSS, Psychics, etc etc etc, Why can't Orks make rocks into grenades?

>>23268842
Thematically, they're the only species in 40k who has an interest in befriending other alien nations.

Aethetically, they corner the smooth lines, high tech, futuristic, mecha market.

Mechanically, as it stands, they're an EXTREMELY shooty army who also has some fast vehicles. They have much less numbers than the IG, and don't use as many tanks. They're squishier than the Necrons, but faster because of the vehicles they do have.


IMO, they fit pretty well into the game and lore.

>> No.23269036

>>23268954
>Why can't Orks make rocks into grenades?
Because suspension of disbelief states that no ork is likely to believe that a mundane rock is a grenade, and even if one did it would take the psychic energies of several thousand to hundred thousand other orks believing on a subconcious level that rocks are grenades.

Wierdboyz work both because they can actively channel the waaagh effect, and because other orks know that wierd shit happens around wierdboyz

>> No.23269047

>>23268954
necrons are way faster than tau in-game atm

>> No.23269068

>>23268954
If a Wyrdboy throws a rock, I can accept it can explode. But thats because there is more Warp energy behind it. The passive WAAAGH! field doesn't create that much power. If it did then why don't the Orks simply curbstomp everything because green is best? Why not have them all believe that they are unbeatable? Or how about unkillable?

>> No.23269096

>>23269036
>even if one did it would take the psychic energies of several thousand to hundred thousand other orks believing on a subconcious level that rocks are grenades.

So you agree that, if enough Orks believe, a rock can be a grenade?

>> No.23269118

>>23268954
I have no - or at least not very many - problems with their core mechanics and lore. It's just how it was implemented. They have no fucking right to be alive as it stands now, with them in the middle of the Imperium right next to the goddamn ultramarines.

>> No.23269137

>>23268825

Jesus Christ, THATS what u are arguing about?

exploding rocks? I thought we were arguing about using rocks as grenades.

personally, my opinion of the fluff is that enough orks were to see a mechboy throw a rock and say it lands on a landmine and explodes. the orks are now in awe. so an ork nob picks up a rock, it too lands on a mine and explodes. blind orkish faith is initiated. the story is spread amongst orks.

some mechboys disprove the exploding rock theory and their waaaghs dont have rocks explode for them

others work on ways to make exploding rocks to embellish this retarded theory.

soon hundreds of warbosses believe that rocks explode and begin appealing to the great gods Mork and Gork to give them exploding rocks.
Mork and Gork think this shit is fucking hilarious and use their god-powers to allow rocks to explode when thrown by orks who have enough faith in them. Billions upon billions of orks now believe that when rocks re thrown they will explode. they begin arguing specifics of the faith, such as only pear shaped rocks explode, or only purple rocks explode... entire WAAGHS are fought and billions of orkish lives are lost over the arguments of which rocks explode when thrown and which ones dont.

this lunacy catches the attention of the gods of chaos as well as Mork and Gork and they all think this is just funny as hell. certain rocks will now explode in the 40K universe because it amuses different Gods of the warp

fluff justified enough for you? i can go on...

>> No.23269153

>>23268929
You could say the same thing about Chaos. Hell, chaos makes more sense. The galaxy is in a particularly bad time and Chaos is becoming more prevalent. Who is to say that war isn't caused by Chaos? Magic, I ain't gotta explain shit.

>> No.23269159

>>23269096
I'm not the person you were debating with and I don't want to go down this demonstrably fucking retarded path. My official stance is that no ork (let alone the hundreds of thousands that would be required to generate enough psychic power) would ever be retarded enough to believe that.

>> No.23269199

>>23269137
>HEY BOSS ROCkS EXPLODE
>QUIT BEIN A STUPID GET AFORE I KRUMP YA

And exploding rocks never happen.

>> No.23269228

>>23269137
Something happening twice in a row isn't likely to cause that to happen.

>> No.23269237

>>23269199
You missed the part where the WAAAAAAGHBoss saw it happen.

>>23269159
>My official stance is that no ork (let alone the hundreds of thousands that would be required to generate enough psychic power) would ever be retarded enough to believe that.

I think you misunderstand how fucking retarded Orks can be.

>> No.23269238

>>23269137
I would accept that. That is work of the gods, not the WAAAGH! field.

I still stand that the WAAAGH! field alone cannot make rocks explode.

>> No.23269308

>>23269237
You overestimate how fucking retarded orks can be. Their genetics are literally coded complete working knowledge of how things work, they might not be able to explain *why* something works or how they know it, but on an intrinsic gut level, orks are likely to know that 'rocks don't just explode'. Why? because every ork has a working knowledge of advanced physics, chemistry, math, etc etc etc etc hardcoded into their dna.

>> No.23269312

>>23266157

Yarrick's fucking right hand is an Ork Powerclaw. I highly doubt that if it was made of scrap metal and used napkins it would hold together very well outside of the WAAAGH field, as any Orks nearby tend to die off rather quickly.

>> No.23269386

>>23269238
The Waaagh field and the gods are the same thing. The Waaagh is represented in the immaterium by Gork 'n Mork.

>> No.23269396

>>23269237
>a society that is genetically determined to have geniuses grow up from nothing and create functioning vehicles, spaceships, guns, and reality warping devices with no prior common societal knowledge of advanced engineering, chemistry, astrophysics, mathematics etc etc should logically have beliefs on the same level as mud and stick hut primatives.

>> No.23269397

>>23269137

The WAAGH of the Purple Rocks is born!!
Warboss Nuiggrah has assemble a coalition of warbosses and their warband who believe that rocks can explode when thrown and has convinced them all through debate, demonstration, faith and shrewd orkish trickery that it is indeed ONLY purple rocks that explode when they are thrown. they are favored by Mork anf Gork and given addition favor by the great lord Tzeench (cuz this whole affair amuses him and will disrupt the balance of future power millions of years from now)

100 zillion orks strong this WAAGH begins ravaging the galazy insearch for purple rocks. they hoard purple rocks, giving the biggest and most purplest to Warboss Nuiggrah to sit upon as a purple throne.

ALL orkish warband are force to pay tribute in purple rocks to the giant WAAG or be punished. some warband begin painting rocks purple, but their ruse is seen through and it is they who are punished harshest of all.

Exploding Purple rocks replace teeth as the new form of orkish currency

>> No.23269425

>>23269137
>>23269397

this story
>less retarded than the entire argument

>> No.23269484

I'm a new guy to 40k and chose Tau after a lot of debate. %70 of the reason I chose them was because I liked their minis' looks more than the other armies.

Anyway, can someone recommend a good Tau book...if one exists? I know there are some good w40k books, but are any...not even Tau CENTERED, just the best book that features Tau kind of extensively.

Thanks

>> No.23269489

>>23269397
>I'm a retard, look at me go!

>> No.23269545

>Starts out as a simple Tau thread
>Derailed by Ork players

>> No.23269568

>>23269489
>getting mad because people like to have fun

>> No.23269602

Never played 40k. Which army is good for beginners is the cheapest to acquire for a full game?

>> No.23269606

>>23269568
>being a retard is fun! look at me be a retard!

>> No.23269607

>>23269397

Having amassed billions upon billions of purple rocks, the WAAGH is prepared to make its move against the galaxy. great ateroids of purple rocks are bound together with chain and ropes and suspended in orbit. massive space hulks are assembled to provide protection to these purple rock asteroids.

THE WWAAAGH OF THE PURPLE ROCKZ is unleashed upon the galaxy. handmade asteroids craft of massive purple rocks are flung at planets with giant slingshot suspended between spacehulks. all the firepower the Imperium can muster cannot destroy these asteroids, they merely break into smaller asteroids acting a simmunition. lasers and missles cannot detonate them because ork faith dictate they must be thrown by orks in order to explode. navies and planets are devastated and purple rock rain down from space.

>MFW people ae taking this story seriously and usig it to support their arguments
>oh the lulz

>> No.23269615

>>23269484
Tau Novels.

Fire Warrior the Novel. That book is a must read

Out Caste. A Tau Novel.

Novels that feature the Tau

The Greater Good
Star of Damcoles
Fire Caste. Not out yet.
Courage and Honour
Kill Team
For the Emperor. First Cain book
Traitor;s Gambit
Savage Scars
Unity

>> No.23269642

From Tau to Ork at the speed of autism. God damn I love this place.

>> No.23269670

>>23269602
I love how these questions are in every single 40k thread, no matter the context.

>> No.23269704

>>23269615
Thanks a bunch, man- much appreciated.

Also....I made that post when I was like, 20 posts into this thread.

I now see how off-topic it was

>> No.23269759

>>23269704
the thread got derailed by someone being a faggot about being wrong. Don't apologize.

>> No.23269774

>>23269607

the first planet to fall is Macragge, the Imperium will never recover from the loss of the Ultramarines. it is struck by an intact purple asteroid and the planet is split in half

Next to fall is Cadia, gateway to the warp. It has stood for millennium, but now the surface is an uninhabitable wasteland due to what the Imperium has now dubbed "purple rain"

orks pours into the warp where most are lost fighting choas "for the lulz" for all eternity. the choas gods reincarnate the worthy adversaries of chaos and supply them with countless puple rock for their amusement.

Warboss Nuiggrah has a bigger fight and a bigger prize in mind, the holy Terra...
he gathers his most trusted Warbands and what purple rocks they have left and prepares for the greatest battle the galaxy has ever seen...

>> No.23269781

>>23269606
No, anon, you are the retard.

>> No.23269860

>>23265967
IG guy here, I honestly do not care for Cruddance, now IG is all vet spam and flyer spam with some tanks or artillery tossed in. No real diversity, no one runs platoons, no one runs foot guard, no commissars, no psykers, just CCSx2, Vetsx2-6, all mechanised and some vendettas, tanks, and artillery tossed in.

>> No.23269895

>>23269774

This is how the Empire of Man falls...

is no one listening to my story of the WAAGH of Purple Rocks??

Its completely legit with cannon and stuff i promise you...lol

could TOTALLY happen

>> No.23269963

>>23269895

BEHOLD THE SINGLE MOST DEVISTATING WEAPON IN THE 40K UNIVERSE

PURPLE
MOTHER
FUCKING
ROCKS

>> No.23270117

>>23269963

/thread

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