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[ERROR] No.23188745 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

This shit shit is out, pretty sure there is least one leaked scan about imperial guard Valerie/vendett.a

>> No.23188826

My sister goes to the good anon who can tell me what the fuck they actually changed and why they've been too cheap to actually fucking release the rules change in faq form.

beyond the usual "because greedy."

>> No.23188862

Any scans of this would be welcome.

Any word on ork changes??

>> No.23188911


>> No.23188926

Don't bee greedy; This book is mail order only: on dakka dakka someone posted a leaked scan, but they remove assp

>> No.23188932


pretty sure this is just a compendium of faqs, codex entries, and whote dworf entries merged together in a convenient form.

>> No.23188958

But I wanna say a few things about the IG flyers had changed. AV drop and price increase.

All I am honestly interested in is if there are any major core rules changes and if anything has changed to the Ork flyers as thats the only parts to directly effect me.

>> No.23189114

scanz for the scanz god

>> No.23189129

it also has 4 new scenarios and the dog fight and ace rules from crusade of fire.

I guess when someone actually get theres the can tell us how changed the unit stats are, if its just FAQ stuff written in or actually another update.

>> No.23189148

I still don't get it. is it just a compendium with nothing changed to existing units or have certain entry's been adjusted i.e the vendetta

>> No.23189158


vendetta dropped to 95 points and is av 11 all around.

>> No.23189178

What about the valk?

>> No.23189222

As a Blood Angels player who was angered by every FAQ stomping all over my balls, the Stormraven going to Codex and BT is another kick in the dick. We STILL don't get the Stormtalon too. Fun times....

>> No.23189250


sorry. valk is 95. vendetta is a 25pt upgrade.

>> No.23189305

Oh woe is you.

Get over it, your codex is fine.

>> No.23189317

I wonder if they pulled their heads out of their asses and raised the point cost on Night Scythes yet. Or made it so they're no longer a dedicated transport.

>> No.23189320

So the valk dropped 5 points...vend stayed the same but they went down to AV 11?

That seems a bit more fair I suppose.

>> No.23189331


Wait, are you complaining about the Templars getting something nice? Goddamn, you're a dick.

>> No.23189381

anyone snag the scan from dakka dakka before it went down?

>> No.23189449

Wat? Are you sure?
About neuron ones?

>> No.23189518

provide a scan.

I can't believe this unless I see it.

This is too good to be true o_O

>> No.23189662

You at least GET a flier without Apoc/FW supplements, crymoar babby,

>> No.23189702


i confess.

i am a debaed trickseter

>> No.23190094

Huh, had no idea it was out yet. I was expecting another week at least.

>> No.23190204

Any word on the DE fliers?

>> No.23190279

I would also like to know about any word on slowing necron domination of the skies in the near future.

So far it seems that every flyer got a hard nerf but them, and thats the list that catches the most shit.

>> No.23190438

I just want it to be known that I use the BA codex and not all of us are like >>23189222

>> No.23190507

Looks like the GK stormraven got moved from fast attack to heavy, per the GW website

>> No.23190700

I think the most important question is, did the Necron croissants change at all, and if so how?

>> No.23190736

Rolled 18


extra flaky, and plenty of butter.

>> No.23190911

Just the way I like them.

>> No.23190913

The important question concerns only the night scythe and vendetta

>> No.23190961

the vend went down in points? srsly?

>> No.23191179

any word on the stormraven?

>> No.23191210

Stormraven page on the GW site lists Sormstrike missiles as an option

>> No.23191648

Croissant IS the night scythe, silly.

>> No.23191881

any info on the DE flyers?

>> No.23191955

No change on the Nightscythe, slight change of how deathray works (soft nerf) on doomscythes but thats about it.

With the armor decrease of the Valk and Vendetta, not even guard can challenge them in the skies any more.

>> No.23191991

They lost the 2+ jink shinanagans with their flyers but not much else.

>> No.23191994

may I ask where you are getting this info from?

Also, any word on ork flyers at all? Any changes to them?

>> No.23192057

Wait what?

So GK has... one... Fast Attack choice now?

Welp, that sure helps alleviate their core problem of being a boring cut/paste army no matter what you do. Good job.

>> No.23192058

German pdf floating around

Orks, as far as I can tell from google, are unchanged.
Enjoy your 18 shot dakka jets anon :)

>> No.23192143

no scans in english then?

>> No.23192253

i suspect a fake then maybe. Its meant to be english only.

>> No.23192736

In what way did Dark Eldar lose their 2+ jink, and does it apply to Craftworld Eldar as well?

>> No.23192780

Dark eldar flyers had a 2+ jink????

>> No.23192881

This. The official announcement says it's in English only.

>> No.23194547


>> No.23195766


>> No.23196181

BA & SW players :
>Waah it's not fair, why didn't we get the new toys? I mean, all marines who fight for the Emprah should have access to the finest wargear his galactic empire has invented

later ...
>No, fuck you, my chapter is so unique and has unique rules and especially unique units that don't belong in a unified Marine codex. That's why it deserves to occupy its own slot in the codex renewal cycle.

>> No.23196216


Fuck storm over SW

>> No.23196499

this is orca from Command & Conquer: tiberium dawn

>> No.23196610

IMPOSSIBRU! That Orca contains no Spess Muhreen pilot wedged into the cockpit somehow.

>> No.23196620

BAfag here. I don't even have a Stormraven. All fast tanks, all the time.

>> No.23196944

So I didn't look at the Stormraven closely enough, but... why does the top turret have a windshield? There doesn't seem to be a marine in that cockpit.

>> No.23196954

SWfag reporting in. No fucks I give about new toys, Im just tired of getting dicked over by flyers and I want something to deal with them. Because beside the Aegis line, we have nothing. Literally nothing.

>> No.23197054


I have also SW army and I also think that don't have any flyer sucks. But in fluffwise, the SW prefer standing on their feet than flying around like young Sky Claws.

>> No.23197077

>geedubs in charge of assembling their own models

>> No.23197088

>laughing xenos whores.jpg

>> No.23197103

Well, seeing as how I doubt the heldrake got toned back, it doesn't really matter what's in this thing.

You thought cron air was bad? The post-FAQ heldrake is even worse. And because it's AV12 with a 5++, even codexes that have their own flyers can't kill it (except IG, for obvious reasons).

>> No.23197128


Don't be silly. You're supposed to ally with IG for Vendettas, like every other army.

>> No.23197142

I always waste my friend's Heldrake with a Land Raider Crusader.

Sure, he only brings one, but it's still something.

>> No.23197178


Then you are far luckier than most. Statistically speaking, a TL assault cannon shouldn't do much of anything against a heldrake.

>> No.23197196

1. Oh ultramarines stormraven? Matt Ward you did it again! Now all your marines have your favourite toy <3

2. BTW tell me please, this shitty book is just a mini game with flyers or it is a must have new rules, that are above rules from rulebook? In other words, for fucks sake, do I need this fucking book to play common battle/tournament?! I NEED TO BUY A SECOND BOOK BECAUSE FUCKS JEWS?!

>> No.23197207


If it fixes flyers I'll buy ten.

Well, not really, because I don't have that kind of money, but you get the idea.

>> No.23197218

The trick is to get your land raider within 12" of Heldrakes rear armour. Rapid fire bolters will glance AV10, and everything is twin linked.

If you park your land raider in the middle of the board you have a good chance of getting it, unless he flies off the board after one turn.

>> No.23197231


Even so, that's only a 1/3 chance of hitting, with a 1/6 chance of glancing, and a 1/3 chance he'll ignore it anyway.

>> No.23197235

As a Dark Angels player I'm a quite fucking angry, because as I see on GW page, mahreeens have right now stormraven in heavy support page, dark angels don't. I mean, come on! Why Ravenwing can't have stormRAVEN? It's like obvious for me. I have 2 off them and I'm using them as a part of ravenwing but i have to shit through alliance matrix and shitty nerds from my game store are raging why they are painted black because this is not matt wards unit :<

>> No.23197236

Bumping for a scan. I would like to preview before buying.

>> No.23197254

Seriously? People are angry because your allied detachment is painted like your primary? I thought the one of the points of allies was to use your primary army's models and paint scheme but another army's rules.

>> No.23197261

Yeah, but with good positioning that's 16 twin-linked shots (12 from bolters on rapid fire, 4 from asscans). Not counting any storm bolters or meltas you might have attached.

>> No.23197276

Yes, yes they do rage about that.

>> No.23197284

I'm a DA player too, I personally was hoping that they would nerf other flyers so that I can use my Dark Talon/Nephilim and not feel like it's a total waste of space?

>> No.23197285

You should bring a plate of burgers with pins in them that say "ass" one day for them to eat.

>> No.23197291

Has anyone actually read it yet?

>> No.23197308

There's guys up the thread claiming to have read a German version, but since geedubya's saying it's English language only, this claim is... suspicious.

>> No.23197318

Probably only someone who works at GW warehouse where these are stored.
They were released today, with no preorder, direct-only, so I'm expecting anons citing rules on monday at the earliest.

>> No.23197330

Another bump aswell... if it fixes valks/vends... I would like to hand it to my IG friend so I can laugh and shoot them down even quicker? :p

Well in truth, its the necron friend I am more concerned on..

>> No.23197339

Wort thing, when a new player is coming to town, every eye is stalking him, with heart frozening silence. Ofcourse GW seller is using his ,,fake smile mode that is crushing his face". When poor new guy is buing something that is NOT lisetd in ultra power gamed army roosters, you are hearing whispers of hate, rage and moking... this place is den of everything that you think about nerds. I'm playing there because place is good but people are sharks that learn how to sarcasm

>> No.23197359

This is the best post on /tg/ right now. Accept no substitutes.

>> No.23197416

>> GW australia, all of my wat

>> No.23197429

>living in Australia and paying for 40k
You only have yourself to blame. Just go surfing or kangaroo-hunting or something.

>> No.23197435

>>mfw i buy valks from the US for au$50

>> No.23197558

How the fuck can you charge people for fixing their own broken rules?
I expected a price but thats just insane.

>> No.23197569


What, is that unusually expensive?

What do people in the US pay for that stuff?

>> No.23197592

Wow, really? Pic is related too

>> No.23197610


Here's the same thing but from the US page.

>> No.23197623

i dont play IG what is wrong there?

>> No.23197637

Guess you haven't seen pic related

>> No.23197639


It is upside-down


Wow, that is quite a significant difference. The exchange rate is roughly equal, so.. does it cost that much to actually ship that to here? Why need it be so expensive?

>> No.23197640

>i.e. the vendetta
>not capitalizing the first words of your sentence
>no period at the end of the sentence

>> No.23197649

>implying it's going to actually balance anything

>> No.23197652

Nope. It's been cheaper for a long time to buy overseas and pay the shipping yourself. They support the stores, etc. on the price rise, there are higher taxes, but mainly they're just gouging people.

>> No.23197679

GW deleted the Stormtalon's rules update from the Space Marine FAQ, now you need to buy this book to use them*.

*Unless you have the digital codex.

>> No.23197687


Admittedly, all luxury items are outrageously priced here.

Music, Movies, Games, Clothes, Liquor, whatever

Has a lot to do with the fact that we have a really high minimum wage, though.

Same with why tipping isn't assumed in Australia.

>> No.23197709

Woah. That's surprising. Should really have seen that coming though.

Yeah, but also has a lot to do with gouging and taxes. Liquor is crazy taxed here (thank the big beer companies), etc. See the thing about it being cheaper to fly to America, buy their Adobe Suite and fly home then buy it here?

>> No.23197710

Ausfag speaking here.

Basically, Australia is so far from the rest of the world it ain't funny. We literally are an island nation. A fairly significant mark up to cover for the cost of shipping.

Further - and this is my speculation at this point - the business risk would be fairly significant compared to, say, the Americas or Britain. We are only a nation of 22 million people, scattered across all corners of the continent. It'd be fairly risky for having a fairly similar sale price as America, as the stock is shipped out in smaller quantities, to fewer stores, with some fairly expensive freight costs (we simply don't have enough demand down here to lower the costs - continue reading).

The effect this has on the bottom line operations is that the gross margins on the sales are lower due to increased COGS (cost of goods sold). In order to meet their national business targets in Australia,they have to have a pretty significant markup on their goods in order to meet their sales and profit targets.

Phew! I hope that explains why Australia has a fairly significant markup. I'm a final year accounting student, so we work on cases just like this. Feel free to ask me anything if you have further questions.

>> No.23197719

Yeah our minimum wage if you are 20 is about $15, whereas in the UK it's like £6. In the US it's like $8 I think.

>> No.23197727

>need to buy this book to use them*.
u wot

you mean you need the book if you want to look at the rules

>> No.23197737

With GW though, the markup is such that many people (I'd guess more then not, but that might be my skewed perception of the hobby here) buy from the US/UK directly and get it shipped over here. And many digital only goods get the same mark up (see the Adobe Suite fiasco). So there's more to it then just that - at least in some cases.

>> No.23197748

I'm sure for most people with comfortable cash, and this would true for heaps of things, is they would rather shell out whatever amount of dollars, rather than wait anything from 2 weeks, to 1 month+ to get what they want.

>> No.23197753

>Page 56/101 – Valkyrie Assault Carrier, Special Rules.
Remove the Deep Strike and Scout special rules.

from the faq today. They seem to have purged deep strike from any other flyers that had it too.

thats good i guess,

>> No.23197772

I just checked how much cheaper it would be to order from UK, and shipping was going to cost me £160.

That's not much cheaper at all.

>> No.23197778

It could be the Australian branch of GW being absolute pricks as well, I'll admit.

And I'd imagine going through GW retailers would be fairly gouging to your wallet, instead of going by the net. That said, this isn't a problem for GW exclusively, either - Mr Harvey, the guy who made fucking Harvey Norman, is a retailer who says he can't compete with internet businesses because they are way cheaper to buy.

As a result, there's been a push by retailers to put a tarrif (or was it include GST into the purchase price...?) of goods bought overseas in order to make domestic retailers more competitive. We can never catch a break :|

>> No.23197781


They released the Stormtalon rules in White Dwarf before 6th edition. Then they released an FAQ where they updated the rules with Hull points and clarifications.

Now they've removed all Stormtalon changes from the FAQ.

This means that you'll have to buy the Death From the Skies book to use the Stormtalon.

>> No.23197790

Shell out an extra amount, sure. But an extra $25 on a $50 purchase? I guessed that my perception might be skewed, but GW tends to charge us 50% more, which is a fair bit.

>> No.23197796

Rolled 14


a little douchebaggy to do that when the book is an english only release.

>> No.23197801

Oh does your FLGS do a codex check at the door do they? Make sure you've purchased all the relevant material before you start playing?

I mean, it's not like you could just look at a scan of the rules, buy a stormtalon, and then add it to your army. OH WAI-

>> No.23197805

Considering our min. wage is 3x more than US or UK

>> No.23197826


Won't be a problem for me, I have the digital codex and get any update for free.

My worry was with the unwashed masses who don't even know what a scan is and have to gobble up GW's shit.

>> No.23197843

It's a massive dickish move, considering my GW is like "If you don't have the rules for it, you can't use it."

I wish more people would play 40k at my FLGS.

>> No.23197844


>> No.23197849

I think if someone can't type 'Stormtalon rules' into google, GW is probably right to take their money.

>> No.23197851

Back on topic, any rumors?

>> No.23197859

Probably what we want, less bullshit with flyers, now that their shiny new-ness has soaked in.

>> No.23197864


Try bringing the printouts into a GW.

My local one probably wouldn't care, but from what I've read here some GW's are run by massive dicks.

>> No.23197866

I don't know about your GW but mine frowns on scans and print outs of rules that came in a White Dwarf or in a book (like Imperial Armor).

Which is why I wish more people played at my FLGS. People don't give a flying fuck if you have books or not.

>> No.23197868

Rolled 16


IG shit got a cut in points and went to 12/11/11 instead of 12/12/10.

its like they dont even understand why those planes are bullshit.

>> No.23197884


Source on this?

FAQ has no mention of any changes so unless I see photos or Scans I'll use the rules in my codex.

>> No.23197897


>> No.23197900

So... anything for us in this update?
Pic related

>> No.23197905

definitely, it limits much more vens can't come in on an empty side nor deepstrike behind you for terrible rear armor las.
This severely limits their angle of fire and gives armies that gap close signifigant relief.

>> No.23197916


Assuming this is true, it doesn't even begin to address the issue that they are far, far too devastating and durable for their points. And that's before considering the fact that they are transports and can be squadroned.

But, eh, the heldrake is the bigger problem now. Vendettas are only scary is you run mech lists. Heldrakes are death on wings to any marine player, even the ones that have their own fliers.

>> No.23197946

>nerds raging over painting schemes

At my FLGS a guy has a smurf army, literally using codex:SM and smurf models, with dropshrooms instead of droppods, lightning lobster claws for assault terminators (some are TH+SS master race) and magnus poppa smurf himself as poppa smurf with dual special WYSIWYG fists.

Every smurf has pauldrons with the U's transferred on.

What I'm trying to say is, your FLGS sucks, confront them or find cooler people to play with.

>> No.23197962


Raven Guard motherfucker!

Get your copycats out of here.

>> No.23197965

Unless you have a scan you're not sharing then you're full of shit.

Direct order only means that literally nobody will have these (unless they're britfags) until monday at the earliest.

>> No.23197974

Heldrakes aren't a god damned problem.

Please, tell me what you are assmad about?

Because if you tell me why you think they're bullshit broken, I can--in 20 words or less--tell you that you're a fucking moron

>> No.23197986


>mfw this is great for me if it's true because CSM
>if they're flying straight at me my heldrakes' vector strikes fuck shit up on a 4+
>if they're flying parallel to my lines my autohavocs and aegis line fuck shit up on a 4+

feels good man

>> No.23198007


3 heldrakes will wipe out 45 scoring marines in 3 turns of shooting and there's effectively nothing a marine player can do about it unless they have IG allies (heldrakes laugh at stormravens, for crying out loud!). And I can't think of any marine armies that can lose 45 scoring models and still win.

>> No.23198008

I feel with you

>> No.23198039


This is the reason why half my guard squads have flak missiles.

>> No.23198045

on one hand
>no more delicious av 10 rear shots for devourers, no more lucky glancing them out of the sky with fleshborers
on the other
>over twice as lethal side shots for devourer, coupled with crippled angle of approach that makes these side shots far more likely

>harpy can now glance the ven
>implying I'll take a harpy

>> No.23198046

Hey, remember all those things you bought in 5th edition?




>> No.23198051

Hey you should probably use ruins and spread your squad out on the different levels, keep in max coherency and learn how to fucking play.

>> No.23198052


>3 heldrakes will wipe out 45 scoring marines in 3 turns of shooting and there's effectively nothing a marine player can do about it

Except using transports, using spread-out formations or shooting the fuckers down.

Besides, that's over 500pts, I can get 5 Night Scythes for that.

>> No.23198053



>> No.23198054


Since when can guard squads take Flakk missiles?

>> No.23198064

I guess you could house rule it... I mean it's just a 10 point upgrade on missile launchers...

>> No.23198068

Since the next codex, probably.
(Or since you make up your own rules if wanted, I guess)

>> No.23198073

Are there new rules / armor / pointcosts for the other races as well? Like for the harpy or the DE flyers?

>> No.23198074


Vector strikes crack the rhino, the infantry comes out, and is now in perfect position for flaming.

Also, running mech lists is suicidal when there are vendettas in the game. There's a reason people have been moving to foot lists.

And no, you can't shoot them down. Unless you have Vendettas. Seriously, do the math. A LC/MM Stormraven will take off 0.6 HP from a heldrake per turn. A quad-gun will take 0.73. AV 12 and a 5++ is ridiculously tough on a flyer.

>> No.23198075

Sorry bro : No one loves tyranids. We should know this since our last codex, with our brand new Carnifails, Lictosucks and Priceygons.

>> No.23198080


That is stupidly optimistic.

>> No.23198083


I can't take them seriously in any sort of power debate because of Cruddace.

>> No.23198085

I can't imagine anyone really calling it overpowered, flakk is of questionable point value on marines, who can somewhat protect said missile launchers with extra wounds and 3+ armor saves. paying 25 per missle launcher that can only be fitted on bs3 LD7 heavy weapon squads just screams underwhelming

>> No.23198086

>In magical fantasy land they can crack a rhino even though it's unlikely that the VS will break it and even if they do you still have a 6 inch bubble to spread your troops out in WOE IS ME

>Fuck taking 35 point rhinos what if he's chaos allied with guard and there are vendettas! EVERYONE HAS VENDETTAS! I MUST BUILD MY LIST TO BEAT ONE ARMY BUT I WILL CRY WHEN I LOSE TO OTHER ARMIES

>> No.23198088

I love tyranids :)

>> No.23198095

Ork player here. Did they fix fighta ace?

>> No.23198103

You should take a look at >>23197965

>> No.23198108

Me too, brah... me too.
Let's hope for a brighter future.

>> No.23198167


Do the math. A couple of heldrakes will easily crack a rhino in the movement phase. Then they'll flame the survivors. Fwoosh. Gone.

And besides, you're supposed to build to deal with as many lists as possible, right? Well, that means you have to run a foot list, because anyone with half a brain these days allies with IG for vendettas (they're that good). And foot lists are terrible against heldrakes. Unless you have IG allies yourself (and really, why don't you?), you have to choose one of those two lists to walk all over you.

>> No.23198171



They have 3 hull points. And it's not even guranteed to glance.

>> No.23198207


Str 7 Vector Strikes. D3+1 hits..

>> No.23198213

keep this thread alive guys, I should be back in an hour with the book, will take requests for scans then,

>> No.23198218


And the odds of getting those Helldrakes all out of reserves? Sorry, but that scenario just seems so unlikely.

>> No.23198219

That's 3 heldrakes, aka 310 points killing 200 points of marines.

310 points which are only on the table for half the game

>> No.23198224

>tfw a hero walks among us

>> No.23198225

i can take this alive for decades :D

>> No.23198226



It's only available to order.

>> No.23198230

That would be sexy you gorgeous accented mother fucker.

Will this be 4shared or whatever so I can get it off /rs/ later?

I've got a 40k tourney today + tomorrow that I'll be at you magnificent stallion you

>> No.23198235

He's in brittanica, post runs on saturdays

>> No.23198236


Heldrakes are 170 points.

That's 510 points of Heldrakes.

>> No.23198242


Or 5 Croissants.

>> No.23198243

>being fooled this easily

>> No.23198245


That's what they do for one turn. Then the next turn they do it again. And again. And because they're so ridiculously tough, you can't stop them (unless, again, you have vendettas). Soon, you end up with too few troops left to win.

>> No.23198255

>Dice game
>guaranteed outcome
please stop

>> No.23198256


Ah, ok.

>> No.23198257


Honestly, they are mediocre when compared to other flyers. 1 Razorwing with 4 Necrotoxin missiles is more deadly

>> No.23198262


My math was 170 + 70 + 70 because I'm a retard

Yes ok, spend 510 points to kill one troop choice turn 2, 4 and maybe 6 if we get extra turns (which 60% of the time we will)

Good thing I've got 6 troop choices because the 6 in 6e stands for "take max troops you fucking homo tool"

>> No.23198266

Maybe try moving your models so the flyers which are hard to maneuver are punished?

>> No.23198272

avg 3 hits
1.5 pen/glance
24%ish chance to destroy on pens.
So if you have 2 helldrakes, you stand a decent chance to kill that 1 rhino.
This is so unbelieveable bad that it's laughable to think about as efficient in the least, even if you immediately killed a full 10m squad right after.

>> No.23198275

Unless your target has invulnerable saves and/or are 2+, it's a guaranteed thing, pretty much. It'll be making its points back the turn it's on the table, at least through the baleflamer.

>> No.23198284

The average is 9 hits for 3 dragons vector striking...

6 pens/glances

>> No.23198313


Back when that worked, heldrakes weren't a problem. They were scary, but they could be defeated. Now they can flame in any direction.

>> No.23198329


And it's just gonna keep killing. They get more than one turn on the table, after all.

>> No.23198343

>responding to your own posts

>> No.23198345

its kinda hard for the bleflamer to be punished. With the turret mount thing going on good old 360 arc of fire.

>> No.23198346

wait, since when did DE flyers get 2+ jink?

>> No.23198349

>9 hits
>s7 vs av11
it's 4.5 pens/glances
If you're a gambler you could spread out all 3 drakes against 3 rhinos, but most players are going to double team one rhino and hope to get lucky on the second.
Once you factor in any additional points you sink into garenteeing reserves, the chances of drakes coming in late, staggered out, and the chance of the game ending turn 5, helldrakes are very very risky for their point cost against rhinos.

>> No.23198354


I posted
and nothing else.

>> No.23198355


I agree, when has this happened? I thought 4 was the best.

>> No.23198383

Ooops, I thought rhinos were side 10 because I've been playing deldar and EVERYTHING is av10

>> No.23198390

How many flyers do Space Wolves get? How many SW players are complaining about it in every thread?

>> No.23198404

Hellhound is a good choice, totally overshadowed by flyers, but it's quite good thanks to torrent.
Now you give it AP3 and a flyers chassis and /tg/ found it bad. Seriously guys ....

>> No.23198423


Because pic related.

And the gunner's a servitor.

>> No.23198427

nottingham store delive the mail order in few days.
Actualy the stock compunt is like 12m away from the store :)

>> No.23198433


You're forgetting the AV11 of the Ravager!

>> No.23198437

>What's this? An Ultramarines Stormraven? Surely that can't be right!
You go to hell, geedubya. You go to hell and you die.

>> No.23198447


A lot of them are complaining about it. I'm not sure why. SWs needed a weakness. Heck, so do the GKs, for that matter (which is what I play).

>> No.23198458

>few days
The tripfriend said an hour...

>> No.23198473


>Hating Ultramarines

That's so 2011 bro.

>> No.23198488

Ofc if he have some friend inside store, few day become few hours.
The same reason why you can read the chaos marine codex BEFORE the actual release.

Notthingam is the only place, atm, where you can have this box whitin next week for sure.


>> No.23198489

Not as much as BA crying about how everyone else gets their Original Flyer, Do Not Steal.

I remember how massive it was for non-BT got the Land Raider Crusader. The nerd vortex had no end and people all around were quitting the game and burning down their FLGS in protest.

>> No.23198493

>helldrakes are very very risky for their point cost against rhinos

If you ONLY have Heldrakes, sure. But most CSM lists will be running them alongside Obliterators, which can potentially be popping Rhinos from turn 1.

Even against the cheapest MEQ available (no-upgrades DA Tacticals) a Heldrake only has to kill 13 to make up its points cost, which it can easily do in two turns using just the Baleflamer. If there is anything more expensive on the field (like, say, a Devastator squad) or a secondary target they can Vector Strike, then they can quite easily make up their cost in a single turn.

>> No.23198503


Oblits are hardly worth it now.

>> No.23198505

It was more of a generalised Muhreenhate thing.

"Check it out, this chapter is totally unique and different and deserves its own codex! Look, different flyer!"

"Oh, and now all the other muhreens get it too. Hurrah!"

>> No.23198513

> Not asking for a stormwolf and a wolftalon

>> No.23198514

Oh, Lawd.

Do any of you remember that picture that was in White Dwarf one year, I think when the Baneblade was first introduced as a model, and it had a massive section of track missing and the lascannon was pointed at the driver?

>> No.23198526

>implying they won't call it a wolfraven

>> No.23198530

It's not being released in stores, though. Mail order only.

Still, we can hope that he wasn't yanking our cranks.

>> No.23198547

see, now this is a decent point, it's much stronger than "nu-uh, helldrakes op kill everything"

>> No.23198570


This one?

>> No.23198575

guys, concerning anti-air math this is my opinion.

i don't know how many time you face the infamous 6+ necron croassant army list, or how many 3xhelldrake chaos army have you fought on the "glorious" wargaming table, but indeed the match is suited on the battelfield and not on air.

indeed necron, helldrake struggle whitin air supremacy, folled by stormraven (indeed vendetta is cleary an anti-aircraft or a tank hunter).

3 helldrake are a lot of point: you can push on air, but you can't do the same on land, that's the problem.

Indeed in this ediction, a lot of tournament army list focusing on aircraft AND and many many maaany cheat wound on table.

i'm not talking asbtractly, i see and i played againts italy ETC army, they have a lot of wound on the battelfield: how many piece can kill something like 80+ guardsman behind an aegis defence line, and at the same time deal whit a moltitude of other army configuration whitin a tournament?

the point is: you can build a very particular army, like 4x stormraven but, god help you if you face an horde army.

So, again, how many 6+necron croassiant 3xhelldrake have you fought till now? me? not many.

I play an army whidout any kind of airfract NOR range fire.
If you can ignore air support, be aggressive at maximum, rape the ground army asap.

or just become a minimum 1° detachment g.i. plus you'r codex as 2° detachment :(

>> No.23198579

>DEATH from the BOX

>> No.23198610


Everything here is true except the assertion that a stormraven can achieve air superiority over a heldrake.

The heldrake can't do anything to the stormraven, but the stormraven won't be doing any real damage to the heldrake either. It's AV12 with a 5++. At .6 HP of damage per turn, the stormraven's gonna need 5 turns of shooting on average to shoot down a heldrake.

>> No.23198612

Oblits only got better, what are you smoking?

T5 (so they are no longer vulnerable to S8 Instant Death), and they have an Assault Cannon now. So what if they can't fire the same weapon twice in a row? Unless you're sitting at max range with only one type of target on the field this will never be an issue.

>> No.23198623

So, GW are removing the online rules for flyers?

Excellent. This is a $33 tax on people who run lists with flyers.

Today is a glorious day.

>> No.23198637

Wait, when did the Stormtalon price go up? Last I remember, it was 52€, now it's 66€.

>> No.23198655


Gk stormraven struggle to kill an helldrake indeed, multi melta btw can deal big damange on 3 and on 5+: indeed an helldrake whidout flame breath is quite a joke, also imparring (immobilize) can be usefull: you can't place an enemy aircraft bases inside or on one of my pieces, so.

BA storm can deal more damange on him, 2 s8 missile can be useful.

SM\BT storm? dunno, probably they have a s6 vp4 skyfire missile, becouse they are ultramarine: why do a job in the easy way if you can do it in a suicide\strange\hellwhatareyoudoing method and ACHIVE a GLORIOUS Vicotry?

>> No.23198656

Here is the problem with that.

Unless you're running some sort of primarily 2+ save army or (to a lesser extent) Daemons, then the Heldrakes will turn your ground forces into a field of delicious fried food unless you're packing something that can reliably kill them.

You can spam all the ground troops you want but when you've got a trio of essentially unkillable S6 AP3 Flamer templates toasting your troops, along with whatever else the enemy has, you won't last long.

>> No.23198677

Don't forget that thesee Flame templates with RANGE and FLEXIBILITY. The biggest weaknesses of normal flamers and flyers, respectively.

What's that? I only have to be within 19" of you in any direction to wipe out your infantry squad?

>> No.23198678


Well, theoretically, if you run enough bodies, you can have too many for the heldrakes to kill. The problem is that MeQs cannot do this, which effectively forces you to get IG allies if you want to survive heldrakes.

>> No.23198681


Nah, if you play expendable horde armies like eldar, guard or Orks, those drakes won't hurt as much as other stuff that kind of points would buy.

>he paid 510 points for 3 heavy flamers!

>> No.23198683

That's pretty obviously not going to work. Your MEQs are just going to get targetted and you'll have even less because you blew your points on a bunch of guard.

>> No.23198690

Last exciting round of price rises, I think.

>> No.23198691


>expendable horde armies like eldar

What the fuck?

>> No.23198692

Except these are flamers templates. The original anti-horde.

All that'll do is make heldrakes wipe out twice their points in infantry, instead of wiping out ALL of your infantry.

>> No.23198697


If Eldar weren't an expendable horde army, they wouldn't have T3 5+ save infantry that can be taken in squads of 20.

>> No.23198699

I think the point he's making is that there are more efficient anti-hordes than baleflamers.

>> No.23198700


But that will be fine, because you'll have another 50 Guardsmen once your marines are all gone.

Plus, Vendettas are the only thing that can really shoot down heldrakes.

>> No.23198710


Infantry that sucks when you can take Wave-Serpent mounted Dire Avengers.

>> No.23198712

>this nigga

Go check the points cost on those units then post on /tg/ again

>> No.23198713

>not fielding an Avatar surrounded by a horde of slavering Guardians

>> No.23198719


>expendable hoard

I wish GWs at least had the decency to fix this in the new codex but it isn't going to happen when the alternative is sell a higher model count.

>> No.23198720

The thing is those three Flamers can pretty much fire on whatever unit they damn well please, and there is jack shit you can do to stop them.

They'll take out the important squads, and you'll be left with gigantic hordes of jackasses with no worthwhile weapons. The solution to beating highly durable, incredibly mobile, high strength Flame weapons is NOT to just spam more dudes who are susceptible to being killed en-mass by those said weapons.

>> No.23198721


Excellent, a fellow anon who understands the essence of Eldar.

>> No.23198728


Avatar is an expensive fire-magnet.

>> No.23198735

So, that guy who said he was coming back with the book should be getting back soon.

Unless he's late or lying, of course.

>> No.23198736

Yes, but these particular flamers have an 18-36" movement range, and can spew the template a further 12" in a 360 arc around them.

Even if you spam a shit-ton of doodz, the Heldrakes will just fly over or around them and toast the important squads.

>> No.23198737


Yes it is.

Competitively built Guard armies have no specialist squads.that aren't in Vendettas (which are capable of handling drakes).

Orks have hordes or specialists like nob bikers that don't care about heldrake's flamer.

>> No.23198740 [SPOILER] 


>> No.23198743

It's also possible he didn't read the site properly and assumed it would be for sale in his local shop or something...

>> No.23198747


When it comes to IG as allies for dealing with heldrakes, there are no important squads. They are literally just objective campers that you spread out as far as possible.

Meanwhile, your allied Vendetta(s) gradually shoot down the heldrakes.

>> No.23198750

Ok, so you're saying the answer to Heldrakes is to run counter-flyers to protect your specialist squads (Vendettas), or run squads that aren't worried about the Flamer in the first place (Multi-wound dudes like Nob Bikers).

So, you're saying I'm correct, and that running MOAR HORDZ isn't the answer? Glad we agree.

>> No.23198753

Nids don't care either. Gaunts are spawned as needed (and usually are either written off as dead or in combat by next turn), Genestealers will either be dead or in combat by the time the drakes come in, and the both the vector strike and flamer are laughable against mcs.

>> No.23198754

Well, while your 500 points of heldrakes wipe out 200 points of infantry a turn, you've got 1000+ points of other army that just has come close to breaking even.

I kinda wanna run Tau with CSM allies for heldrake now.

>> No.23198765

Wut? I was making the point that it would be more sensible to take, say, a ten man marine squad with two flamers, or termis with a shitload of flamers. I wouldn't take Hledrakes for anti-horde.

>> No.23198769


No, he's saying there are no important targets. Just 50 guardsmen, spread out so that each heldrake can only kill 5 or 6 at a time.

And by the time the heldrakes go to shoot them (the marines all being dead), it's turn 5-6. They're not gonna burn through 50 guardsmen that are at max coherency in 1-2 turns.

>> No.23198770


In the unlikely case he either works for gw his store could have a store copy he could take or the similarly unlikely case he lives in Nottingham he could go to GW HQ and buy a copy there because they often have direct order only stuff available there.

>> No.23198777

Ok, so you've got big hordes of Guardsmen all spread out, making them both easy to assault and unable to effectively bring their guns to bear on the enemy without bunching up in perfect please-flame-me formation.

This is worrisome...why?

>> No.23198793


Because they're IG+Marines. They've already wiped out most of the ground resistance via shooting. Or, they will have a blob with a marine IC. Few things are funnier than making guardsmen excel in assault.

>> No.23198794


>implying the chaos player won't also be blasting the shit out of his enemies scoring unit with his bolter wielders.

>> No.23198795


>Implying IG can't outshoot CSM

>> No.23198796

But those squads have to get close to the enemy (which is inherently risky for Infantry), and will be nearly useless against 3+ saves.

If you're purposely list tailoring to beat massive Hordes i see your point, but otherwise why would you take them instead of the nearly risk-free Heldrake which can put its template where ever it damn well pleases, and is basically a hard-counter to MEQ, aka the most common army type in the game?

>> No.23198799

no way.
bolter on chaos are for fully army.

there is quite no sense to spent csm cost for scoring unit, much better to have 20-30 cultist.

bolters are for pussies.
Or for DA bike army :D

>> No.23198810


Massive waves of expendable Guardians have been part of Eldar army for decades.

I don't see them going anywhere.

>> No.23198822

>Massive waves of expendable Guardians have been part of Eldar army for decades.
Gav put it in in teh 3rd edition codex, and it was really only popular for 3.5 uthwe/strikeforce players.

>> No.23198830


Possibly true, but cultists can't outshoot guard either. Shooty cultists are guardsmen with worse armor saves.

>> No.23198833


It is so fucking stupid fluff wise.

>> No.23198859

I agree, as stupid as giving eldar bad armor saves.
space marines would cry though if eldar common troops had either 3+ armor or invuln save though.

>> No.23198862

>Implying I will buy this crap.


>> No.23198873

Nonsense. Wearing the foe down with wave upon wave of short-ranged, lightly-armoured, barely-trained civilians is among the noblest of the Space Elf Arts Of War. It's right up there with Kamikaze Fire Dragons.

>> No.23198876

>what was 2nd ed eldar
>what are scorpions and reapers.

>> No.23198880

Can someone educate me on wtf this book is?

Did they just redo all of 40k's fliers and put them in their own book? Did GW make FAQ's a book now?


>> No.23198895


We don't know. We're waiting for some guy to possibly get back with it to find out.

>> No.23198910


Don't forget said civilians acting as meat shields for weapon platforms, giving their lives to protect the revered wargear.

>> No.23198916


>> No.23198927

What is all the dead Eldar became Wraithguard? I think they could retake a lot of shit.

>> No.23198932

It's a sign of their lives pre-Fall, really. Eldar are hardcoded to be a horde race, constantly making more of themselves to throw at the enemy. It's how they got so hedonistic, during their downtime, that they made Slaneesh.

Thing is, they still want to be a horde race even though they've got dwindling numbers and self-control now. It's the military tactics that were programmed into them by the Old Ones the same way an Ork has how to make a shoota programmed into him.

Eldar are working as designed. The design is flawed.

>> No.23198934

The Eldar use lightwight flexible mesh armor for their civilian Millita as opposed to the bulky plasteel hulks that marine lumber round in.

Career soldiers use the superior mesh/plate armor, and a select few train extensively to use the much heavier Scorpion powered armor equivalent to that of the Marines, or the bulky armor of the Dark Reapers weighted down with servos and recoil compensators.

>> No.23198939

So are our minimum living costs, etc. We're taxed more, food is more, etc. And for things that are required to be local and are putting back into the aus economy in the same way, I care less about this. But i'm not ok with paying more because people overseas say "well, they *can* pay more."

>> No.23198940

I just want the new Codex to drop Guardians down to 5 points (or whatever their stats are worth- can't imagine it's any more than that) and let us swarm the enemy properly.

>> No.23198956


Except that makes no sense, because the Eldar have always had low birthrates.

The reason they send their civilians into combat is because their numbers are so low they don't have a choice. Guardians are the Eldar equivalent of Conscripts. When you don't have enough real soldiers for the job, you send the civilians.

>> No.23198959

>Exarchs = Stubborn, exarch powers are squad upgrades.

Farseer = mastery level 1, can upgrade to mastery level 3, may take 4 powers. doesnt roll for eldar powers.

Pheonix lords = FNP, Fuegan gets 4+ FNP

Autach = seize initiative 4+, 2 warlord powers.
DIre avengers =24" Assault 2 shuricats, Bladestorm is all weapons are salvo 2/4

Guardians = min unit size 5, defenders get bs4 and support weapon options(d-cannon/vibrocannon, ect), storm get ws4 and plas/haywire grenades

Scorpions = stealth for 10pts

Banshees = furious charge for 10pts, ap 2.

Wraithguard = 35pts, FNP.

>Fast attack

swooping hawks = Skyleap = swoop like MCs, intercept = Vectorstrike with Haywire grenades.

shining spears = get s6 ap2 PW on charge, haave unwieldy maul afterwards

Warp spiders = Deepstrike without scatter for 10pts, Enter reserves at end of asssault-phase for 10pts(roll deepstrike mishap table)

>Heavy support = BS4 for 5pts for all guardian units(falcons,warwalkers, ect)

Dark Reapers = skyfire and intercept for 35pts

Wraithlord = twinlink is optional, FNP

>Vehicle upgrades

Shock field = 15pts gives assault transport can not be combined with holo fields.

Holo fields = 15pts gives shrouding

star engines = 25pts may flat out in the assault phase

Shadow Weaver= unit hit is in dangerous terrain.
Starcannon=36" S6 AP2 Heavy 3
Vibrocannon= causes ap- penetrating hits on vehicles.
Brightlance= 10pts cheaper

>> No.23198960

Like Iyanden's ghost army?
The issue is that the souls in the suits are warped and twisted by being forced into combat.

"Sorry bro, i know you gave your life ages ago but we're gonna have to pull you out of psychic communion heaven make you a robot zombie untill your essences is too weak to drive the suit, then it's Sis' and Mom's turn"

>> No.23198971


No, the Eldar birthrate used to be much higher. But Asuryan performed one of his greatest acts: binding his psychic might to the Eldar, preventing Slaanesh from absorbing all of his power. The psychic power bound into them by Asuryan brought both boon and bane to the Eldar. Though the Eldar's lifespan and already potent mastery over psychic energies increased following Asuryan's gift, it decreased their fertility, leading the race to begin a slow declin

>> No.23198975


I'm sure that there are plenty of souls willing to fight, especially the ones inside Exarch armor.

>> No.23199004

Yeah because +1SV, double the shots of the same stat weapon and fleet for the same cost would be totally fair to my termagants. Oh come on.

>> No.23199006

Wolfclaw. You heathen. And I'll be buying 3 to loot

>> No.23199008

All right, I think that guy isn't coming. Shame, really. Good night /tg/.

>> No.23199018


Your Tervigons are better than Warlocks.

>> No.23199089



>> No.23199091


>i-its not l-like I benefit tremendously from the changes to psychic p-powers or anything...

Cry me a river. I have been unable to beat my nid playing friend since 6th ed started because of his psychic might

>> No.23199107


What army do you run?

>> No.23199137


Jump Infantry and Sniper Scouts heavy blood angels. The scouts are super effective but as I have not interest in rebuying enough models to not be dependant on assault marines I am more or less fucked royally. I would sooner start a new army and since I don't want to build and paint that much I won't.

>> No.23199146


You could try running a few proxies to see what works for you.

>> No.23199181

That sounds awesome. I demand pics as well!

>> No.23199184


Like I said, not interested. If anything I will proxy a newer codex with my models. I'd quit the hobby all together but I already have the models and friends who also play so it just means not supporting GW.

>> No.23199212

So, I just got back from the local GW and they said no one is getting a store copy because it's an online only thing.

I replied it affects every army and since the stormtalon's rules have been removed from the site it's the only way to get them even if you own the bloody flyer, and since it cost a fortune it's not really fair to those people is it?

He had no reply.

I don't know what to feel about this, apart from awaiting the Scan gods.

>> No.23199379

'Fair' was never part of the GW deal.

>> No.23199399


Good job alienating every player without a credit card.

>> No.23199429

You mean the under 15 crowd? I'm actually kind of okay with that.

>> No.23199454

Also students and people who don't like the financial liability that credit cards are.

>> No.23199487

I have a credit card but ordering directly from GW would cost me double what the book costs by itself.

>> No.23199490


What is a Debit Card?

>> No.23199499


>how do I manage credit responsibly
>how do I into debit card

Let's face the farts. You're either underaged or retarded.

>> No.23199517

Am I the only one who's confused as fuck about these bundles? What's the point in them? They don't offer any extra value whatsoever. Also
>Metal Kasrkin
Looks like someone's trying to clear some stock, most likely a finecast bomb inbound.

>> No.23199532

I was actually thinking plastic vets. Probably. I dunno. I don't know anything I just shitpost here.

>> No.23199547

He said credit card, not debt card. I got a debt card.

Selling more. Duh.

>> No.23199608


They also removed deepstrike from Necron croissants.

>> No.23199616

He thinks there is no way to buy anything online without a credit card which has a ton of debt associated with it if you're retarded.

We're making fun of him for that.

>> No.23199748


I know a lot of people who don't have credit cards so that they don't actively support a business practice they detest.

>> No.23199765


Not all banks/institutions offer visa (or equivalent) debit cards.

Credit Unions are by far the most commonly used institution where I live and they don't.

>> No.23199770

That's okay.

I'm sure those player's parents would be paying for it anyways.

>> No.23199795

Is there anything for Sisters in it? Or is it just errata for fliers, not new ones?

>> No.23199811


That what you get for keeping your money invested locally.

>mfw I fucking hate our economic system

>> No.23199825

lol something for sisters.

>> No.23199840

just updater rule\datasheet for old models.

This boox cover all the fly models exept FMC: that's pretty strange, indeed chaos daemon will be the next codex, but what's about tyr? (even if they dosen't need it).

Btw scan guy "i come bach whiti an hour" you disappoint me :X

>> No.23199865

The only place where this book might be possible to get today is Warhammer World.

No one should know what's in it until next week.

>> No.23199981

> MFW everybody takes baleflamer instead of Hades Autocannon
> MFW I run ten (twenty if BA allies) foot soldiers and then as many dreadnoughts as I can fit

Have fun trying to vector strike my AV13 Iclads, nignog. I ain't even mad.

>> No.23200083

> I'm not okay with paying more because I can
Welcome to capitalism, comrade.

>> No.23200198

Blech, I'm gonna convert it to automated, it should allow me to remove that retarded crest from behind it and maybe move the wings forward.

Should look tonnes better.

>> No.23200285

Servitor operated IS an automated turret.

You can leave the intake off without a problem. Flipping the wings around is an easy way to improve the flyer.

>> No.23200984

Servitors are just meat robots.

>> No.23201419

curse me if i let this 404

>> No.23201812

just btw...was there a scan for the crusade of fire book? i missed that one totally

>> No.23202450

did the scan ever show up?

>> No.23203165

not that ive found :(

>> No.23203244


>> No.23203434

is anybody there?

>> No.23203573

hows that scan?

>> No.23203575

lol still waiting on that guy i see.

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