Quantcast
[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / g / ic / jp / lit / sci / tg / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports / report a bug ] [ 4plebs / archived.moe / rbt ]

Due to resource constraints, /g/ and /tg/ will no longer be archived or available. Other archivers continue to archive these boards.Become a Patron!

/tg/ - Traditional Games


View post   

[ Toggle deleted replies ]
[ERROR] No.22944688 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Thesis: Star Wars has the most inherently interesting droids of any science fiction setting with artificial intelligence.

>> No.22944700

>>22944688

I dunno they're a bit silly

>> No.22944738

>>22944688
Ah... why?

>> No.22944740

Still abominations. And what do you mean by "inherently"?

Does being from starwars make things the superlative of their kind?

>> No.22944786

>>22944738
Personally, I love them because pretty much all droids (aside from Class Five manual labor droids, maybe) have the ability for sentience, if you allow it. All droids glitch their way to a personality and pretty much everything you would associate to being alive short of having a pulse, but it's totally normal for people to give their droids routine memory wipes. That right there is a perfectly viable option for some class warfare.

I also love the variety of droids. Like, many sci-fi shows I've seen just have robots as people with metal skin. But R2-D2, one of the biggest badass droids I've ever seen, is a goddamn trashcan on wheels. I love it.

>> No.22944830

>>22944688
>Has the tech for AI
>Ships are crewed by thousands of little fleshling running around.
>Warships have automation so prmitive that it would not look out of place in WW2

>> No.22945129

>>22944830
Well, the AIs go sentient if you don't keep up with proper maintenance, so having a few fleshy folks around to run things keeps the crew 'fairly' safe from surprise cabin depressurization when the R-5 astromech has another bout of existential ennui.

>> No.22945223

>>22945129
and that's why it's awesome!

>> No.22945475

I know /tg/ doesn't really care much for Star Wars but I must confess I love Star Wars droids. I can't really justify why beyond their industrial / pulpy sort of 'fuck you I'm a machine' appearance, like there's almost no attempt at grace or beauty with droids, they're all gears and cogs and so on.

>> No.22945507

There's things in Star Wars that aren't lightsabers?

>> No.22945688

>>22944688
well yeah, but only because the word 'droids' is copyrighted to it.

Other settings do more interesting robots, androids, gynoids and so on.

>> No.22945781

>>22944688
Fess in the Warlock books is much cooler.

So is Dahak in Mutineer's Moon.

>> No.22945959

>>22945688
Is "droids" seriously copyrighted? Fuck, that's mighty stupid.

>> No.22945996

The android worlds of Star Trek: The Original Series were constructed by The Old Ones. The term's evocation of the Cthulhu Mythos is not accidental; Robert Bloch, who wrote "What Little Girls Are Made Of" and "Catspaw," two episodes documenting the paleohistory of the galaxy in which the Old Ones are discussed, was himself a first-generation Mythos writer and one of H. P. Lovecraft's personal proteges. The Old Ones of Star Trek were destroyed by their hominid creations, though some of their servants--squid-faced abominations of unfathomable psychic might--still traverse the galaxy, meddling with hapless Federation starships with powers far beyond even future-mortal ken.

This means that, as a Cthulhu Mythos story, Star Trek: The Original Series is contiguous with as many other Cthulhu Mythos timelines and stories as any Keeper wishes to incorporate; the nature of time and space within Trek and all the other Mythos tales is essentially shapeless and protean, growing and dissolving at a go. Therefore any artificial automata from any corner of the Mythos is as much a part of Star Trek as the Old Ones.

Therefore, in addition to Mr. Data and the abovementioned godslayers, Star Trek has shoggoths and humans and all the other artificial life simulacra of the greater Mythos.

Due to Larry Niven's work in the classic episode "The Slaver Weapon," Star Trek also includes the Known Space universe. This is unimportant to the robot question, but interesting nonetheless.

>> No.22946058

>>22945475
Well, in The Old Republic games (MMO included) it could be justified by the droids being 3000 years older than anything from the movies.
Not that the droids in The Old Republic MMO that are supposed to be TENS of the thousands of years old look much different from the present ones.

On an unrelated note, anyone else a bit bugged by the technological stagnation apparent in the Star Wars universe?
The biggest discoveries seemed to be: blowing up planets with one laser, making light sabers not need external batteries, and bacta tanks.

I sort of get that few fans would be interested in reading/watching/playing something Star Wars without something that looked familiar to them being involved, but when The Old Republic games are 3000+ years in the past, it really feels kind of sad.

>> No.22946073

>>22945959
It's been so for ages, Battletech was originally Battledroids but had to change because of it.

Frankly if that astounds you, I suggest you don't try and look at the shit GW's tried to claim as copyright or any other major company ever.

>> No.22946114

>>22946058
In the ORIGINAL KOTOR comics the technology DID look ancient. I loved it but I'm probably the only one.

>> No.22946157

Also, to respond to the OP's question, I just really don't know. I wouldn't call them the most inherently interesting, but the popularity of Star Wars has made their style of robots certainly among the most iconic. Though Robby from The Forbidden Planet probably will always remain the crowned king.

>> No.22946190

>>22944688
Hi. We live in an age of faster-than-light travel and moon-size battle stations with enough firepower to blow up a planet, but even though we have good AI technology, most of our robots can only beep and whistle because, for some reason, voice modulators seem to be in short supply.

>> No.22946205

The candles burn out for you; I am free.

>> No.22946236

>>22946114
Well, given what i've already said, I'm sure I would, but my big thing is just that, as an amateur writer and a believer in the future, it always gets disheartening to see technological progress often stunted and many fictional settings.
Really, I'm just one those people who love world building and trying to imagine how technology can progress in other worlds.
>>22946190
Well no one ever seems to have a problem understanding the astro-mechs, for whatever reason.

>> No.22946243

>>22946058
>On an unrelated note, anyone else a bit bugged by the technological stagnation apparent in the Star Wars universe?

It's a galaxy that's pretty much constantly at war, although the real reason is that they want every timeline to feel Star Wars-y, so they can't change too much of the technology. Like, you can't have Star Wars without droids apparently, so they have to be in The Old Republic setting.

>> No.22946246

>>22945996
Where do holograms fit into that?

>> No.22946277

>>22946205
You have excellent taste. Too bad the series hasn't been continued yet.

>> No.22946278

>>22946058
it's just a thematic choice. kind of like in most fantasy fiction, there's a general sense that civilization reached it's apex a while ago and has been on the decline ever since. it comes from popular notions of supposedly advanced ancient civilizations like atlantis, and the decline of the roman empire (upon which, of course, the galatic republic/empire is loosely based).

so by time you reach the years of the galactic empire, everything has long since fallen into decay.

>> No.22946283

>>22946236
I don't think Star Wars is for you
Technology and scientific progress isn't just fairy dust and added flavor, the setting doesn't hinge on it.

>> No.22946288

>>22944688
>implying that having a humanoid or trashcan-shaped body is better than having a spaceship-shaped one.

>> No.22946321

>>22946236
>Really, I'm just one those people who love world building and trying to imagine how technology can progress in other worlds.
Trouble with stories about that is, it can get a little ridiculous in it's own ways.
"Bang I shot you!"
"Nuh uh, I'm wearing bulletproof armor!"
"Ya huh, I'm shooting armor piercing bullets!"
"Yah, well, I have a force field!"
"I have force shielded bullets that move through force fields because their own shield emitters cancel them out!"
"I have a total energy cancellation field!"
"I PRODUCE A WEAPON THAT TEARS APART SPACE ITSELF AND REARRANGES ITS TARGETS AS A SMALL RUBBER CHICKEN!"

>> No.22946338

>>22946277
Operative word is "yet."
Their contract with EA specifically says they're allowed to work on it.

>> No.22946353

>>22946246
Scrubbing plasma manifolds and performing manual labor in dilithium mines, obviously.

>> No.22946366

>>22946058

First off: star wars isn't sci-fi, it's fantasy with sci-fi trappings. You can tell because of the technological stagnation. There's nothing wrong with this, but its space-fantasy, not sci-fi. The galaxy isn't stagnant because of some flaw of the people there, but because of genre convention.

Also, I feel like the "droids get personalities, but still get mind-wiped" thing is incidental and due to a lack of setting cohesiveness, not some brilliance of the writers.

And I say all this as the dude who made pic related.

Mass Effect has better Sci-Fi robot characters.

>> No.22946382

>>22946338
Activision, not EA.
I suppose all evil empires look alike at a distance.

>> No.22946423

>>22946073
Oh, I know that the copyright system in America is completely screwed, but I never thought that something as commonplace as "droid" could be copyrighted.

>> No.22946444

>>22946423
>in America
Games Workshop has threatened to take people to court for using the term "space marines" in their books.

>> No.22946450

>>22944688
Do Transformers count?

>> No.22946470

>>22944688
None of them have a brain the size of a planet; your argument is invalid.

>> No.22946484

>>22946450
Transformers are cars, not androids.

>> No.22946501

>>22946243
>>22946278
Yeah, as I said, I kind of get that fans will often not be interested in anything that isn't up front and obviously Star Wars.
I guess playing Old Republic setting games is more relaxing by me pretending that's the present setting and the original trilogy is an alternate timeline of that. (Plus, a good friend of mine plays The Old Republic and I am in love with my Imperial Agent's Phantom)
>>22946283
Possibly not. But it's still one of those things so deeply rooted into my childhood I can't break from it. My dad watched A New Hope EIGHTEEN times for each month it had been in theaters growing up. I think you get an idea of my upbringing from that.
>>22946321
I'm actually wrestling with that in a setting I've been working on. Basically a super hero setting that's meant to answer the questions "what if every myth was true?" and "what if Reed Richards wasn't so damn useless?"
The conclusion I've come to is things get crazy, very quickly.

Now, back on the OP's subject, what's everyone's favorite robot in fiction? I hate to sound like a newfag, but I am pretty fond of the design of the Geth and how their intelligence works. (After the awesome work with the Geth and the security mechs, EDI's robot form felt incredibly disappointing to me)
I'm also pretty fond of the designs for the Imperial Defense Force Warwalkers from the late City of Heroes.

>> No.22946530

>>22946484
>Transformers are cars, not androids.
See that's what they want you to think, but they're more than meets the eye.

>> No.22946569

>>22946530
HERESY!

>> No.22946574

>>22946366
Droids are not AIS.

Droids exist in 70s style pulp sci-fi/science fantasy

AIs have to have reason behind their personalities.

Comparing Sovereign to R2D2 just doesnt work.

>> No.22946608

>>22945475
>Wow, an actual robot from the movie ‘Clank, Clank, You’re Dead!

>> No.22946616

>>22946484
That is correct, hu- Citizen. We are nothing more than merely your common, everyday, automotive vehicle.
>>22946530
No, there is nothing more to see here, Anonymous, than just a typical red and blue semi-truck.

>> No.22946639

Seeing as Star Wars is basically LoTR in space, counting it as scifi is insulting to fans of the genre. It's fantasy, and decent fantasy at that, but not scifi.

>> No.22946654

>>22945781
Dahak's not a robot though, just an AI. I love Dahak though. That trilogy was great fun.

>> No.22946677

>>22946205
What game is this, if I may ask?

>> No.22946697

>>22944688
Star Wars droids are awesome. Roger, roger.

>> No.22946719

>>22946616
sure but optimus your file name is showing

>> No.22946734

>>22946677
Marathon. It's got an amazing story, and it's held up well considering its age.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maraon_Trilogy

>> No.22946747

>>22946501
What was so interesting about the security robots in Mass Effect? I don't remember anything special about them. The Geth are pretty cool, I'll give you that.

>> No.22946803

>>22946697
Fuck you, guys. You're almost as bad as boxbot from Gunnerkrig Court.
"Coruscant: That does not compute"? FUCKING SERIOUSLY?
>>22946747
Because they really, really looked like very baseline robots. Ugly, yes elegant in many ways.
They ended up inspiring designs for some mission architect robots I made in City of Heroes.

>> No.22946980

>>22946501
>Basically a super hero setting that's meant to answer the questions "what if every myth was true?" and "what if Reed Richards wasn't so damn useless?"
Isn't that just the Marvel Ultimate universe?

>> No.22947044

>>22946574
I meant the geth, in point of fact.

>> No.22947097

Futurama has the second-best androids.

Asimov has the first.

>> No.22947675

>>22945507
And you are why I will never get a game of Star Wars that focuses on the lives of smugglers. Damn you.

>> No.22948977

>>22945996
Because fuck Star Trek, that's why.

>> No.22949009

>>22947675
Smugglers are so far below everything else in SW it's a wonder why people even care about them.

you have The lightsabers
then you got the droids
then you got the mandelorians
then you got imperial war mongers
then you got sexy aliens like twi'lek
Then you got crazy aliens like the bith and wookies.

Even in their own niche, smugglers are overshadowed by Hutts for fucks sake.

>> No.22949285

>>22949009
>not wanting to see a story about a crazy astromech smuggler who thinks he is a mobster with a ithorian partner who acts as the muscle for all their crazy schemes
It would be the ultimate bromance and you wouldn't need a single lightsaber to turn on for a fun story. Hell, you could even set it during the Empire Era and have them find out the cargo they're smuggling for one run is a lightsaber and suddenly half the galaxy is on their ass.

>> No.22949327

Star Wars is the toilet tissue of science fiction.

>> No.22949427

>>22949327
Good thing it's not science fiction, then. It's fantasy.

>> No.22949490

>>22946058
>no technical development
Super late on replying to this, but one of the things I've thought about the Star Wars universe is that the dominant Human culture is actually not that good at the scientific method and research.

Instead of coming up with an idea, making a hypothesis, building a prototype, and testing it, they instead incorporate the technology of an alien race that has already solved it.

I'm mostly just basing this on the part about Hyperdrive being introduced by alien traders, and scientists not really understanding how it works.

>> No.22950873

>>22949285
God damn, I would read/watch/play/love the FUCK out of that.

>> No.22951193

>>22947675
the house i live in plays star wars every saturday. no jedis allowed. only allowed to pick force sensitive at creation

>> No.22951262

Not really, they just act exactly like people do with a lessened capacity for traditional forms of human communication.

For example:
>R2D2 is pretty much a small metal human that communicates through annoying beeps.

>C3PO is a human that is also an autistic-savant in languages and etiquette.

>> No.22951350

>>22946278
>civilization reached it's apex
Well, in KotOR you do meet a mechanic who complains that every year ships become a little faster, droids a little smarter, but nobody cares because it's long since become meaningless.

starwars hyperdrives went from giant stargate slingshots which could be fired once every few years to something the size of a carburator on a family car. They can crisscross the entire galaxy in minutes or even seconds if the origin/destination are on a hyperspace route. The smallest weapon that can be mounted on a spaceship can glass a planet, but armor is made up of stabilized neutronium and shields are strong enough to allow flying through a sun.

EVERYTHING HAS AN AI. Light fixtures, doors, even chairs. Oh and it's cheaper to mount an anti-grav unit on a chair than put wheels on it. Anyone can buy or even build a fully self aware robot which can perform all chores, physical or mental tasks from the garbage everyone throws away because every year they upgrade to slightly more useful droids.

Technology does regress after every single time a sith does his he-man impression, screams from the nearest mountain top "I HAVE THE POWER" and starts glassing every high tech damned factory he can find.

>> No.22951410

>>22944688
>Thesis: Star Wars has the most inherently interesting droids of any science fiction setting with artificial intelligence.

They're basically lobotomized slaves, you know? Droid sentinence is a thing, but it was found to be too much of a bother, so their learning functions are regularily scrubbed back to their basic factory-modules for convenience's sake.

>> No.22952464

>>22950873

>> No.22952521

>>22946114
>In the ORIGINAL KOTOR comics the technology DID look ancient. I loved it but I'm probably the only one.
You're not.

>> No.22953092

>>22945996
>Star Trek is in the Cthulu mythos
Well, that certainly makes this make more sense.

>> No.22953113

>>22951350
With all the AI in Star Wars you'd think they'd stumbled upon a Skynet situation by now.

>> No.22953197

>>22953113
I thought they did?

That's why they don't like to build ship level droids usually. Things like IG-88's Droid Revolution would just happen way more easily.

>> No.22953259

>>22946803
Did someone say gunnerkrigg?

>> No.22953292

>>22953259
>Jones
>In a lightsaber fight
Her opponent is fucked.

>> No.22953506

Correction: R2-D2 was the most interesting droid before the prequels/EU made it so every droid developed a personality and acted retarded.

>> No.22954903

>>22953197
Dont forget the entire droid-controlled planet that got cut from KOTOR 2.

>> No.22955185

>>22951193
My rage at your is everlasting, good sir.

>> No.22955244

>>22953197
>>22953113
>>22951350

It's not AI. Droids actually have special chips in them that prevent them from developing true artificial intelligence.

All their personalities and whatnot come because they have really, really sophisticated heuristic processors that essentially mimic intelligence without actually producing a true artificial intelligence.

>> No.22955251

>>22949285
Its shit like this that makes me wish I could draw and write. Because if I could, I would totally make Star Wars Astromech Noir comic about mobster smugglers.

>> No.22955480

>>22945475
I agree with you.

I think I like Star Wars droids because of three things.

1. The 'used future' idea means robots are common but not super-advanced beings that invoke awe.
2. Droids can look like robots because they are 'nothing special secondary characters' in the movies so the creators don't have to think about humanizing them.
3. The franchise being around for decades has added more robots into the mix.

>>22946501
Dammit, I miss City of Heroes.

>> No.22955544

>>22955244
So are you saying that Star Wars droids and similar robots are philosophical zombies?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philophical_zombie

>> No.22955555

>>22955185
Not that anon, but why? The Jedi overshadow everything.

>> No.22955568

>>22955544
Except for the ones that can use the Force.

>> No.22955582

>>22945129

A few? The crew compliments of Star Wars ships are stupidly huge even for their size.

>> No.22955631

>>22955568

There are no droids that can use the Force, only living beings can use it. There ARE the Iron Knights, but those aren't droids. Those are sentient crystals that use droid bodies in order to be mobile.

>>22955544

Pretty much. They have programming blocks that prevent them from attaining true sentience, though there's at least one droid that I can think of who had that block removed.

>> No.22956051

>>22955555
EXACTLY. Jedi are cool, don't get me wrong, but pretty much everything Star Wars has to be completely focused around the Jedi and their wars. There are a lot of story opportunities buried in the lore, intentional or not, but none of it will EVER see the light of day in mainstream media simply because it wouldn't involve the Jedi Council.

And I'm not saying I don't want to see the Jedi involved at all--having a Jedi act as the muscle in >>22949285 would be cool--but just having a Jedi as a side character isn't enough Jedi, as far as the masses are concerned. It has to be lightsaber battles all the time, and it sucks.

>> No.22956168

>>22945996

Well, you just ruined star trek for me...

>> No.22956268

>>22956051
>having a Jedi act as the muscle in >>22949285 would be cool
Nah, that story is about two underpowered chumps getting into shenanigans and making it by the grease of their gears, not about force whoseits and whatsits. Now, having a jedi/sith act as the nigh unstoppable force of nature BBEG for a story arc would be fucking great, because then you get to see force users from the point of view of the countless mooks they cut down on their way to the toilet every morning rather than having the jedi threat “scaled” to the protagonists, as it were.

>> No.22956656

>>22955631
So, they're really just a bunch of pre-built responses that are really really complex, but its really all for show?

Sounds just like normal humans, then.

I fail to see how that's not a "true" artificial intelligence.

What's more, my problem with the philosophical zombie is that a sufficiently advanced zombie would, as part of its "act," be more effective if it tricked itself into thinking it was sentient.

The moral of the story is that if something acts self-aware, you should treat it as self-aware. if only because treating self-aware-seeming things like shit is a bad habit to get in to.

>> No.22957114

>>22955555
hes mad because he will never have that sort of game.

>> No.22959781

>>22956268
I really just meant that having a Jedi as a character without the entire story revolving around him would be nice, for once

>> No.22959857

>>22959781
I suppose. The problem is Jedi are pretty godmode in Star Wars. His mere presence means that danger and intrigue must be cranked up several levels since Jedi can cut tanks in half, throw shit with their minds, and read and control minds.

Now maybe the aforementioned Sith hunting these guys for the lightsaber gets captured by them and they successfully sell both the lightsaber they were smuggling and his as well. Knowing that failure would result in death, he signs on with them, and now they have a semi-incompetent Sith who gets all sulky because he has never fired a blaster in his life and cant handle not being godmode anymore.

You know, change up the standard personality archetypes a bit.

>> No.22959909

>star wars
>interesting droids
>inherently interesting
>inherently

Since when were middleschoolers required to write theses?

>> No.22960039

>>22959857
Ha, I really like that. Although I was just thinking more of a really low-ranking Jedi, having the Jedi/Sith lose his lightsaber would certainly make for some interesting character development.

>> No.22960124

>>22960039
I would also make him a Zabrak because a sulky Zabrak former sith in a pinstripe suit would be the best.

>> No.22960127

Love Star Wars but sick of lightsabers and LIGHT VS DARK SIIIIDDEEEE?


1313

soon, my friends, soon

>> No.22960157

>>22960127
1313 is about a Jedi, isn't it?

>> No.22960171

>>22960127

DAT CONCEPT ART
http://www.lucasarts.com/games/131index.html

>> No.22960266

>>22960127
Oh, you mean Uncharted with aliens?

Can't wait for those corridors filled with waist-high walls, separated by cinematic action sequences without an ounce of my own control. Boy oh boy!

>> No.22960440

>>22960266
Oh, don't be such a damn downer. You want Star Wars without the Jedi, you got Star Wars without the Jedi.

>> No.22961686

>>22960440
But it looks so... boring. I want to pilot my own, custom smuggling craft, cut deals with alien crime lords, upgrade and raise a lil' droid to be my second in command, and get into space fights. Not watch an interactive movie about hallways.

>>
Name (leave empty)
Comment (leave empty)
Name
E-mail
Subject
Comment
Password [?]Password used for file deletion.
Captcha
Action