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[ERROR] No.22894449 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Bolter Thread.

Argue about Bolters here because apparently they are more rare than the Emperor's nutsack.

>> No.22894464

By canon the IG does not issue them, so that means they are technically rare in the Imperium.

>> No.22894480

They just slao em all over their tanks like theyre going out of style.

Totally rare.

>> No.22894489

Pretty fucking rare then, since he had to make babies the hard way.

If the Emperor had a dick, 40k wouldn't have been as fucked up.

>> No.22894509

Also Chimeras and all variants, Leman Russ tanks and all variants, IG veterans, IG officers, SoBs...

>> No.22894513


Heavy bolters don't count for some reason. Also imperial guard heavy bolters shoot spitballs and are no match for glorious space marine exploding fist launcher heavy bolters, even though they are visually and functionally identical.

>> No.22894519

Pintle-Mount Storm Bolters are not as rare as infantry Bolter carbines.

>> No.22894582

I hate how often you see space marines firing a full size bolter one handed

if they can do that why the fuck does the bolt pistol exist!?

>> No.22894622


>> No.22894730


Bolt pistols are more compact, making them better for close quarters and confined spaces. They're also there as an "Oh shit" sidearm in case the marine runs out of ammo or loses his bolter. Imperial officers and the like can use bolt pistols without breaking their arm.

Etc, etc...

Though there are apparently different kinds of bolters for Imperial Guard/Navy use and Space Marine use, which I guess means the marines use much bigger and meaner ones than everyone else, and those are the rare ones. Don't quote me on that though. I know fuckall about the lore regarding equipment specifics.

>> No.22894740


You're correct - Commissars don't break their arms firing bolt-pistols because they use smaller versions.

Regular humans would have a retardedly difficult time using Space Marine size bolters. Aside from the fact that it's considered heretical to use them if you're not a Space Marine.

>> No.22894833

I'm pretty sure that IG and SB uses some pattern of bolter than is slightly smaller than the typical astartes bolter,(not a bolt pistol), but fires the same ammunition. I recall reading it somewhere anyway.

Also, only Astartes patterns are considered sacred.

>> No.22895779

Except they all use the came cartridge and a heavier gun would absorb more of the energy from the recoil, making it easier to control, so... Only differences between the bolters Marines get to "normal" ones are, at most, ergonomical and quality. That's about it. They even got smaller versions of heavy weapons, like heavy bolters, lascannons, etc.

In Munitorum Manual it's said that bolters do have a heavy recoil and that usually stocky individuals wield them, but nothing about them killing people. Only thing about Marines is that it's best to keep to semi-auto, if you want to hit anything, and leave the automatic fire to Marines. In several BL novels you got Marines straight up handing their guns to non-Marines, and they perform perfectly fine with them without killing themselves from their awesome recoil.

Stop listening to FFG's bullshit about Marine bolters ripping apart anyone else using them and firing fist sized missiles.

>> No.22895860

Their bullshit is taken right out out of the old 2nd-ed and 3rd-ed Space Marine codices.

Bolters have the same calibur of round, but not the same load in said rounds.

>> No.22895898

yeah i hope bolt pistols of the normal human sized kind are too rare, because Eisenhorn runs through them a dozen at a time

>> No.22895912

Best kind of Bolter right here.

>> No.22895918

He's an inquisitor with some rather powerful plot armor. Of course he can get his hands on a shit tonne of gear that any normal human would be lucky to get his hands on one of in his entire career.

>> No.22895928

For what it's worth, an inquisitor has pretty much free pick from any imperial armory he passes by and a boatload of budget to just buy whatever he can't requisition.

>> No.22895935

If they're so rare, why don't they just make new bolters?

>> No.22895946

I can't find anything like that. Got page numbers or something?

>> No.22895967

Storm bolter > all others

Deal with it, heretics.

>> No.22895984

Most 40k technology can't be replaced because of the following situation:

>"Well shit we need more plasma guns, how did we build those again?"
>"pfft, I don't know, go look at the schematics"
>"Are you joking? We lost all that shit in the dark age"
>"Well what the fuck are we supposed to do now?"
>"Just give those pricks some lasguns, we still have the specs for those"

>> No.22895990

Enjoy your jam sandwich.

>> No.22896000

The twist: it was a space marine chapter filling out the order

>> No.22896017

Mostly because lasguns batter can be recharged, where as with bolter you have to keep supplying a constant stream of projectiles.

>> No.22896020

I don't think it's that they're rare so much as they're EXPENSIVE. The Imperium doesn't have unlimited resources, though they do have a huge amount it's also under constant stress. Space Marines basically outfit themselves in the equivalent of millions of dollars worth of gear because they're Important and that's their whole thing, while Imperial Guardsmen... aren't.

The expense also probably isn't so much the guns as the ammunition. Bolter shells are complex gyrojet things, while lasguns are energy charges and retardedly easy to reload.

>> No.22896031

Double-twist: The Blood Magpies stole them all.

More seriously though, all of those fancy guns are produced all the time. The problem is that there are generally only a handful of forge worlds able to produce a given type. Consider that with the literally millions of soldiers needing those guns and you quickly come to a point where those guns are lost/destroyed in battle at a rate similar to or even exceeding the maximum output of the forges, leading to their overall rarity.

>> No.22896032

Kai-gun is nice.

>> No.22896042

Probably a matter of expenditure and use- only resource the Imperium's not short on is bodies, etc etc.

>> No.22896049

Except everybody that wants one still has one, and they're never actually broken or destroyed, so the number of bolters and bolt pistols stays the same forever.

Look, it's best if you don't think about 40k lore. The closer you look, the less sense it makes.

>> No.22896070

I doubt they're rare because they can't make them, but more because they're a sort of niche weapon. You're not gonna make them for every soldier, they're way too complicated for that (some feudal peon can barely comprehend a simple lasgun, so try teaching him about proper bolter maintenance with electric primers and shit) and in fluff a lasgun is more than capable of dealing with most things. Also easier to resupply, as power cells can be recharged easily.

Bolters are reserved for Marines and Sisters, very small groups in the scale of the Imperium. Some special forces, like the inquisition and arbites, can get their hands on them as well, but really, outside of them, you're not gonna see many. So no wonder they're rare, as they cater to a very limited clientele.

>> No.22896075


Yet I can buy boltguns for my IG HQs and bolt pistols for my sergeants.

>> No.22896080

You mean the gun that existed like for a second between GW making an actual model for it and it getting removed from the codex?

>> No.22896088

It was pretty much a daemonic heavy bolter for Chaos HQ.

>> No.22896092

I think he means that they're not standard issue. In Munitorum Manual it was said that officers might have bolters and pistols as heirlooms and such, but they're not really part of the official Guard gear.

Surely some regiments might have stuff like pistols as standard issue for sergeants and officers, but it's not the universal Guard way.

>> No.22896094

Not ISSUED, I think the assumption is the characters who have them bought/inherited/acquired/stole/we specially given those weapons.

>> No.22896100

Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader sourcebooks have several types of bolters, and the civilain version (including those used by Commissar) use much weaker ammunition than what Space Marines are using. Just posessing Astartes bolt ammunition can give death penalty to normal imperial citizen.

The weakest weapon which is sold as "bolt pistol" in some frontier worlds is actually modified flare pistol.

>> No.22896110

Was just wondering what the gun laws are like in the Imperium. I presume like everything else, the answer is 'wildly different on every world'. Though I imagine the Imperium does like its citizens to have a way to possibly defend themselves against its ten zillion enemies, but not nearly enough to actually threaten their military forces.

>> No.22896121

Which is a bit funny, since how do you differentiate astartes ammo from non-astartes? They're all the same ammo (except when FFG decides it's not, even though all their books say all bolters use the same ammo).

And some people say with a straight face that FFG fluff is so much better than GW.

>> No.22896140

Not really. You can compare the bolter from Dark Heresy and Deathwatch. They are not the same weapon.

>> No.22896143

As long as the tithes are paid and you keep the Ecclesiarchy happy with praising the Emperor every once in a while, the Imperium doesn't give a fuck how the worlds are run. Each governor is free to do as they please.

>> No.22896144

Astartes ammo is a big fucking caliber. The 40k tabletop doesn't usually distinguish between different types because it's not nearly that spergy, but presumably Astartes get bigger and better quality ammo than the average imperial upstart noble/gun nut.

And you forget the first rule: 40k doesn't make sense, everything is canon, not everything is true, don't think about it too hard or you'll turn into everything wrong with 40k fans.

>> No.22896178

It actually has to do with the Imperium's weird mix between mass production and a feudal master/journeyman/apprentice set up. Magos are insanely protective of their designs in order to gain prestige for themselves and their forgeworld. As such, the only time new people start building those designs is when tech-priests from one forgeworld found another forgeworld or when someone steals the designs. Then there is the scale of the setting. You can have a forgeworld that does nothing but spit out new bolters, but all that will amount to is the IG, Skitarii, and SM chapters in the sector being well-stocked with bolters.

>> No.22896179

Yet Deathwatch text still says bolters are .75 caliber. FFG did errata (or so I've been told in many places) the retarded Deathwatch stats back in line with the rest of the books. I can imagine small advantage because of higher quality munitions and hand-crafted master artisan quality guns (compare a fine rifle made by an expert gunsmith to a factory stamped boomstick from some ex-Soviet block country), but they just up and decided that Marine bolters are totally a thing on their own and makes even Tau pulse rifles look shitty in comparison.

>> No.22896182

Bolter shells are .75 caliber if I remember correct.

>> No.22896186

When they said that, it was probably refering to bolters design for humans. They are not wrong in that aspect, you re just deforming what they said.

And actually, FFG fluff is a better material than BL books because they are just giving the players facts and rules to work with when books deal with impressions.

>> No.22896245

Give me one source where it says Marine bolters use different caliber from all others. One. You can't, because there ain't one. All bolters, Marine and otherwise, are .75 caliber.

Also, maybe you should read up on all the explanations on GW canon and not trust everything you read on the internet. Everything is not canon, it's "official". And even that wasn't entirely accurate, as was later explained. Studio, as in stuff that goes into rulebooks and codexes, doesn't have to care one bit what's been written in other sources. It's the George Lucas pissing on the Extended Universe as much as he likes, because it's his world. BL and FW has to adhere to studio fluff as much as possible. As one author said, he was specifically told not to use topics that rulebooks/codexes hasn't had (so no hrud and stuff). 3rd party writers are a whole different thing and GW doesn't always police them, so their stuff can be what ever. Even Relic has said that stuff like Space Marine isn't actual 40k stuff and more of an alternate timeline, independent of the actual setting.

40k development team has also said that the world exists purely to play games. It's not an intact, fully narrated story, but a backdrop that allows different armies and stories to be told and players themselves to finish all the open questions given.

Back to the original "everything's canon/official", it merely means that everything written (in GW/FW/BL stuff) exists in some form or fashion in the world. Either as an isolated case, as a distorted fact, misquoted statement or what ever.

>> No.22896272

>probably refering to bolters design for humans
>they are just giving the players facts

>> No.22896281


Read the Night Lords books. Talos ruminates during the first book when boarding a vessel on the differences between his weapon and the sorts of things humans can wield.

>> No.22896284


>compare a fine rifle made by an expert gunsmith to a factory stamped boomstick from some ex-Soviet block country

I would like you to know, that with any modern firearms, this is a stupid comparison.

>> No.22896299

Even in FFG's games using a Marine bolter has a regular human won't kill or hurt you; you just take penalties to shooting unless you have strenght equal to a Marine sinc eit's a huge lump of metal not designed to be used by regular-sized humans. I think they might also be unreliable when used by non-Marines.

And yes, Marine and non-Marine bolters do have different stats, and it's not just a matter of different games using different stats (like some enemies that appear in multiple games have their stats adjusted to fit the game; compsre for example the pain engine stats in Soul Reaver and Only War), as Blakc Crusade has both regular bolters and Legion bolters (ie. Marine versions), and they do different amounts of damage.

>> No.22896304

This man is a bit of a dick, But sadly he is also Correct.

>> No.22896349

Astartes bolter uses .75" caliber (19 mm) metal-cased ammunition, which fires Rocket-Assisted Armor-Piercing High-Explosive bullet. The thick-walled bullet is made of hull-metal, and the exposive charge breaks up the bullet after it has penetrated into the target (that is, AP bullet which has small HE charge, Graze igniter and short delay fuse).

A frail Malfian noble may carry a bolt pistol whith similar-looking 19 mm ammunition, but the bolts are likely to be much lighter and have lower muzzle velocity. The bullet could have thin aluninum frame, containing more rocket fuel and larger HE charge. The end result is low-damage bolt pistol with light recol.

>> No.22896359

You do realize "damage" in game terms can mean a whole lot of things and be modified by more than just higher caliber and more muscle mass. Eldar chainswords give a +1 Str. even though they're not any different from Imperial ones, apart from being extra sharp and of finer quality.

Good quality guns means smoother operation, less chance for a jam and wear and tear, tighter fit and more accurate barrel, so you're far more likelier to hit what you're aiming at, etc. And they do make "match grade" munitions, with performance in mind. As oppose to the junk they cram into any old combat rifle, built by the lowest bidder. Surely a hand-crafted, precision made rifle with high quality ammunition will have an edge, how ever so slight, over your run of the mill factory made rifle with factory made ammo.

Marine stuff's suppose to be the best of the best.

>> No.22896361

I think I've also read somewhere about Astartes bolt rounds having a sharpened diamond tip, but don't quote me on that.

>> No.22896375


They have depleted deuterium tips. Which is retarded and makes no sense. It's really just GW's writers wanting something that's depleted uranium but doesn't sound like depleted uranium.

>> No.22896386

I'm sorry for being a dick, but this has come up so often that I've grown a little weary of arguing about it all the damn time.

>> No.22896388

a marine could probably pick up a tank and hold it steady while it fires.

>> No.22896397

>depleted deuterium
That's not even a thing, and deuterium's not even a fucking solid.
I'm just going to mentally assume it's a diamond tip anyway, because while mass-producing gemstones to put on bullets is ridiculous, somehow tipping them with solid heavy water is inane.

>> No.22896412


It's supposed to echo the idea of depleted uranium because it draws comparisons between bolter rounds and real life anti-armour shells.

Like I said, they wanted DU but 'more exotic sounding'

>> No.22896427

I imagine that some chapters are using the bolterguns gunkata style, the ones who perfect them become seargents, guiding them into the philosophy.
And the

>> No.22896439

Wasn't that just a typo that guys like use couldn't let go of? Like when Roddenberry said that the reasons why Klingon's looked different in the movies and TNG was due to budget and makeup limitations of TOS, but everyone kept coming up with theories and demanding they explain it? Even if that was correct, it's 40k, where cyborg engineers who have installed a second brain worship toasters while rape elves from the rape planet torture people to refuel their souls.

>> No.22896446

They have diamond tipped tools today. Even diamond in stuff like limb prosthetic (joints and stuff). They even make them for industrial use all the time.

And to be fair, bolts don't have diamond tips, it's "diamantine".

>> No.22896448


It could be a typo, it's more likely the writers not bothering to do their research first. It's how we ended up with the shitty crunch for Imperial tanks that posits them as worse than existing ones.

>> No.22896468

Dunno if it was head canon or one of the random rpgs, but I swear I remember something saying the difference was in the charge that expels the round before the gyrojet fires. Non marines got a weaker charge. all this nominally affects is the rounds velocity at short ranges...that us short enough ranges that the gyrojet hasn't had time to get the round to speed, so it still does more or less the same damage (especially since it is more an explosive weapon than a kinetic energy weapon).

>> No.22896574

Clallenge accepted: Inquisitor's handbook, Angelus bolt carbine description.
And, as far as i remember, Deathwatch corebook, but I can't be bothered to check it up. I did check up InqHandbook, however.

>> No.22896596

I'll even provide the text itself
>The fanes of Gunmetal, among their most important duties,
>hold an oath-bond to manufacture the casing and primary
>propulsion charges for Astartes calibre bolt shells. Production
>of the Astartes bolts is carefully controlled and monitored,
>and once made, each case is stamped with the aquila and its
>maker’s mark before being passed on to the Adepts of the
>Machine God. Despite the security and precautions inherent
>in this sacred duty, it is said a few of these shells never see the
>aquila stamp. These so called “blind shells” are both utterly
>illegal and highly desirable, but on their own, blind shells are
>useless without a weapon to fire them. Consequently, the Fane
>of Fykos makes in secret a weapon known as the “Angelus”.
>Bluntly elegant in shape and crafted from the finest materials,
>the Angelus’s lacquered stock houses its magazine and
>unlocks to take three Astartes calibre bolt shells snugly nose
>to tail

>> No.22896662

Dark Angel company veterans with combi weapons/storm shields

>38pt almost terminator with 3+/3++


>> No.22896754

Spencer carbine that fires bolt shells? I'm down.

>> No.22896790

I scanned through the boarding portion, but couldn't find such a scene. There was one piece, where he praised his bolter and how it made him feel, all the history they had had together from the original betrayal to that very moment. But that's about it. I couldn't even find any mention of the Imperial using bolters, just shotcannons and stuff.

Ah yes, FFG to the rescue once again. Where does it say in the angelus bolt carbine text that the "Astartes caliber bolt shells" are used in regular Marine bolters? Deathwatch book says same as all the other books, bolters are .75 caliber.

Got any source closer to GW?

>> No.22896888

This is true even at low temperatures, which gave me a thought... A gun that fires small packets of Bose-Einstein condensate that freezes solid whatever it hits.

>> No.22896898

Wouldn't depleted Deuterium just be plain old hydrogen?

>> No.22897013

Nah, the most common isotope of hydrogen is Protium. Deuterium is rarer, but still a stable isotope.

(Depleted Uranium is just uranium with less fissile isotopes of uranium in it. So, well, deuterium, as an isotope, can't even be found in a depleted state)

>> No.22897028

"Probably" was only aim at me, dude, because I do NOT remember the whole book by heart. Take it easy.

>> No.22897077

Besides, the point why people put Uranium in their projectiles isn't even that it's radioactive or anything, it's that it's one of the most (the most?) dense stable elements available. The fact that it's radioactive as well as highly poisonous is more of a drawback than anything else.
Just use tungsten and be done with it.

>> No.22897107

Yeah, industrial-grade diamonds are pretty widely available today (they just found a few million in Russia) and can also be artificially created quite handily.

Really, the only reason why diamonds are still considered so incredibly rare and valuable is solely the consequence of certain diamond cartels (de Beers, for example) having huge marketing capabilities.

>> No.22897137


Do you know that the caliber is just one of about a dozen variables that drastically change the performance and expense of a round? And this is just in ordinary everyday bullets, which are a tenth the minimum complexity of a Bolt.

It may have several times more grain, which will give it much faster muzzle velocity, and hugely increase the recoil as is described. And won't fire from guns not build for it without damaging or destroying then, as is described.

A more advanced gyrojet warhead is not just plausible but damned near certain. A certain large dumb-fire rocket and a Sparrow AGM are visually identical, and are 90% identical, but the Sparrow costs about forty times as much.

Finer-grade materials and higher quality control are likewise a surety. Using match-grade ammunition hugely increases the cost per round, but makes your weapon much, much more reliable, and improves its performance. And that's with standard bullets, where components mean less than gyrojet rounds

And shit, that's not even starting on the payload. The best explosive rounds cost a shitload more than the bottom-dollr, but are much more reliable, explode with more force, explode more reliably, and have much more useful fragmentation patterns.

A .50 bullet from Roskovsky's Dubious Arms Co. is the same caliber as one from Baron von Bang's Bespoke Bullets, but by fuck the latter can perform better.

>> No.22897160

Yeah, of course, bolter shells are in fact rockets and explode.

Quite possibly the deuterium is there as a moderator to a fission reaction.

>> No.22897196

Part-time /k/ommando here, I have the weirdest boner right now.

>> No.22897211

Not that sci-fi writers have any background in any science whatsoever.

>> No.22897216

But the claim is, and has pretty much always been, that Marine bolters have a much larger caliber (.998 vs. .75 is passed around quite often, even though it's "998. pattern", like 998.M41), which ordinary humans can't deal with, and so on and so on.

I'm perfectly ok with Marines having better grade stuff (which they do, as per the fluff) than most. That's given. I only object to claims that Marine bolters have larger caliber and that they're somehow physically unusable by humans. You're able to shoot bolts out of shotguns (Necromunda), and seeing that the primary charge is there just to clear the round out of the barrel, after which the rocket engine does the rest, the recoil's not really meant to be arm shattering. Come on, humans been using bolters far longer than Marines.

>> No.22897244

Lets face it, none of us are playing these games for our love for accurate depiction of physics and astronomy.

>> No.22897253

I never understood why there aren't more variants of bolters. Like how hard would it be to make a revolver that shot bolts?

>> No.22897261 [SPOILER] 

Wanna read Breastica.

>> No.22897276

>hurr what is suspension of disbelief and setting-relevancy
Holy shit I hate this image so much. Its such a fucking terrible strawman and anyone who posts it with a lick of serious intent has to be a pretty desperate troll.

>> No.22897282

Not particularly hard probably, but why would you? Revolver-style magazines are pretty shit when you have access to spring-loaded ones, especially with calibers as large as bolts.
Besides, when you have the capacity to manufacture two-stage bullets you should also be able to make a semi-auto firing action at the last.

>> No.22897311

Well it would be possible for some bolt pistols to be like that. Probably an archeotech design (especially as you'd have to load the bolts individually, making it longer to reload)

>> No.22897314

The point is that plenty of nerds use completely arbitrary measures of what constitutes appropriate suspension of disbelief to different worlds.

As an example, just look at all those people who lost their shit over D&D 4e because in there non-magical classes can do cool shit that's technically unrealistic.

>> No.22897319

>Aside from the fact that it's considered heretical to use them if you're not a Space Marine

Really? Don't Inquisitors use them all the time? And why is there a bolter available for Command Squads in the Imperial Guard codex?

>> No.22897331

>I only object to claims that Marine bolters have larger caliber and that they're somehow physically unusable by humans
These aren't necessarily related though. Pariah for example states that an Astartes boltgun would look comical in the hands of a human since they tend to be 7-8 feet tall in powered armor and their boltguns are sized accordingly.

Therefore it's hard and awkward to get your hand to wrap around the entire gun.

This could also add onto a larger bolt or charge to make it unusable even if one or two of these three factors would not have made it unusable on their own.

>> No.22897340

And my point is that there is a distinction between MD House suddenly whipping out a lightsaber from hammerspace and shooting lasers from his dick and Sailor Moon riding a unicorn of hopes and dreams while shooting pixie dust at a monsters face.

The image makes no such distinction and neither have you (so far).

>> No.22897345

way i see it the fun is imagining the science that makes dinosaur wizards possible. fucking your setting consistency for plot/cgi makes pretty much everyone (who gets it) mad.

>> No.22897356

Because those aren't Astartes Boltguns, those are regular boltguns.
Aren't you following the conversation?

>> No.22897358

See >>22897340

>> No.22897386

I don't think this thread will be complete without this one.

>> No.22897392


>> No.22897402


>> No.22897409


>> No.22897415


>> No.22897428

The fun is introducing engineers and other hard science people into comparative literature and then make their visions concerning fantasy and science fiction crumble to pieces with sociopolitical and anthropological perspectives related to political correctness.

>> No.22897440

Never looked a guns the same again, right before I read this comic I also learned more about the Machine God so it had an enhanced impact on me.

>> No.22897446


One of the reasons to use uranium is because of the high temperature reaction with oxygen. ie, it burns really fucking hot when you shoot things, producing a cloud of really fucking hot uranium oxide that kills anyone exposed.

To get another element that is that heavy hard, and produces that reaction? Osmium, something that is estimated at less than one ton of world wide production per year. As where depleted uranium is not just cheap, but you can be payed to take it away.

Still though I would also advocate tungsten rounds, the burning cloud of metal oxide is more of being a dick on top of obliterating your target.

>> No.22897502

beautiful story. Really tragic one but I like it. Thanks ser!

>> No.22897511

Where do you draw the line? When is it enough and when is it too much? Personally, I wouldn't be one bit surprised if House pulled a lightsaber from his ass, because the way he's been able to keep his job despite being unbelievably terrible at his job... I can only say that dude's sporting some powerful use of the Force there. And while I haven't kept any score, I'm pretty sure the series has made the same TV-hospital pitfalls as any other TV-hospital over the years.

How is jump-starting someone's heart with defibrillator (totally not what the thing is for) different from shooting dick lasers? What if someone has a medical case of light projecting polyps in their dick that are so bad the emit the light as amplified beams? That's about as realistic as reviving dead things by shocking them.

>> No.22897531

>How is jump-starting someone's heart with defibrillator (totally not what the thing is for) different from shooting dick lasers?

>> No.22897540

Also makes it a bitch when you're fighting near an area where civilians live. Causing a huge increase of cancer or congential birth defects is not exactly helping with the whole "hearts and minds" thing.
You know, like the americans did in Desert Storm pt. 1

Because making a clear distinction is downright impossible, it's usually relative to the work in question. Like, if House misuses a defibrillator it's kinda glaring, yet when it happens in generic action movie it's easy to overlook.
Anyhow, larger point is that many peolpe don't even try to ascertain whether bitching about suspension of disbelief is relevant, they just see if they like a thing, and if they don't then bitching is fair game, otherwise everything is just dandy.

>> No.22897561

You are a sad, deprived man if you think that's a beautiful, tragic story.

>> No.22897586

Did you just try to imply that House is any more intelligent or reality adhering than a generic action movie?

And distinctions are incredibly easy to make. All you need is common logic. You don't complain why a wizard can shoot spells. But you can complain when Dexter the Bay Harbor Butcher starts using a magical notebook to kill people with.

>> No.22897604

Give it a good enough scientific explanation and suddenly dick lasers are perfectly reasonably under Suspension of Disbelief. How do you think Star Trek gets away with being "scientific" while Q laughs at your notion of reality all the way to the cosmic bank.

Also, as it says, the burden is on the reader, not the writer. Either you accept the fact that in 40k bolts have deuterium and Imperial tanks are far future super tanks so beyond us we can't imagine it with starts shittier than that of WW2 tanks and Kafkaesque dimensions, or you don't.

>> No.22897613

Yeah, but that stuff makes sense within their ridiculous universe. This is supposed to be modern science, but it isn't.
This is like, a material so radioactive that if you approach an amount big enough to see it will kill you, is used as a catchall fuel for everything from flamethrowers to oil lamps to starship engines... and can largely be handled with your bare hands.

>> No.22897632

Or half-human, half 6-limbed flying fire projecting "lizard" having tits.

>> No.22897648

>Either you accept the fact that in 40k
Hey hey hey when did 40k become relevant in this part of the thread? Don't inject me into your 40k shit.

Seriously learn to post on 4chan. Each post is its own merit and you can't assume you're ever talking to the same person. (Hint: You're not.)

>> No.22897681


I really don't think they mean the element Promethium. It just sounds like "Promethium" as a word in 40k means flammable material, to the inhabitants of 40k Promethium is just the word for fuel. Just meaning "of Prometheus", though it is also odd that everyone on 40k would know of the titian in greek myth that gave men fire.

>> No.22897728

How about you learn to read the thread and what the conversation is about?

>> No.22897751

Well, there's also the moon of Nocturne, Prometheus. Quite possibly records indicate the best stuff came from there.

>> No.22897755

I started a new conversation about an image in the thread.

How about you read the thread and what the conversation is about?

>> No.22897811

I know, couldn't really add anything to the conversation so I put in a joke. Elemental promethium is apparently a metal anyhow.

>> No.22897841

No, I'm outright statnig that since the practice of medicine is one of the large focuses of House, any medical mistakes there would be more SoD-breaking than in a movie that's solely about blowing shit up.
What I'm getting at is that it's not just a linear scale of "is realistic" vs. "is unrealistc".

Any kind of fiction has a certain set of limitations or rules that distinguish what's "realistic" inside of it. Most simply use physics and shit from the world we know. Others create their own to a degree, like magic in fantasy or pseudoscience in sci-fi. The break of suspension in disbelief generally only occurs if a work breaks its own rules.
Take Matrix for example. Neo is able to do crazy magic shit inside the Matrix because it's basically just a program and he can influence the "code", if you will. However when he starts using these powers in the real world, a lot of people lost their suspension of disbelief. This is not because this is inherently any more unrealistic than self-aware machines that for whatever reason harvest humans for power using a giant digital simulation. It felt off because his powers were defined beforehand as distinctly specific to the matrix, and suddenly breaking that rule with no explanation didn't fly for lots of people.

>> No.22897887

>dick lasers
You COULD re-purpose a digital weapon, bro.

>> No.22897982

> You have the ring, and I see your Schwartz is as big as mine.

>> No.22898289

Image, which was part of the conversation. I know, I posted it.

Your witness.

>> No.22898541

What are referred to as diamond-tipped tools actually aren't; they're coated with a mixture of very fine diamond dust and an adhesive, which anchors the sharp gem fragments in the pores, creases, and various other imperfections in the metal, where they protrude very slightly and form the actual cutting edge. That method would have no effect on a bolter round, since there's no shearing force or fine edge to begin with. They just have actual, small stones mounted on the tip.

>> No.22898564

Mass Effect did it already.
>" A cooling laser collapses the ammunition into Bose-Einstein condensate, a mass of super-cooled subatomic particles capable of snap-freezing impacted objects."

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