/tg/ - Traditional Games

>>22761911
Space Marines are the best all around army to start with, they offer a wide array of choices while being pretty easy to play with.

The most important aspect for most people is the theme of the army. Are there any armies that you like the lore and aesthetic of? Assuming you're painting and modeling, it's better to have an army you like the look of.

>>22761911

Thing is, you can twist most armies into playing in most ways. Shooty Marines, Close combat marines. Fast, mechanized Guard or Heavy, sit in a line and pound the other army with cannons guard.

Options...You have them.

>>22761911
Space Marines - jack of all trades, masters of none
Space Wolves - melee oriented
Blood Angels - speed and deep strike
Dark Angels - all terminators all the time
Grey Knights - tiny numbers of super badasses

Necrons - mid range shooting, bad at melee

Eldar - not too familiar with them

Dark Eldar - Glass Cannons, you either kick ass or fail miserably

Chaos Space Marines - they can be played in a variety of ways, but are similar to vanilla marines, I've had more fun with them than my nilla marines

Tyranids - Losing

Sisters - ask someone else

Guard - guard blobs

>>22761947
I have experience painting from playing D&D years ago with my dad. He helped me paint and I learned a few tricks. When he was my age he went between complete dirtbag and fa/tg/uy long before /tg/ existed, so he would still love to help me with the paint.

Is there anywhere that I can get more into the lore, I'm not very familiar with it, just the basics. Or someone could just summarize it.

40K wallpapers als appreciated, to give me a feel for the stuff.

>>22762039
Are those all of the factions or are there more beyond that?

Any more details for the Chaos Space Marines? the name just sounds cool.

>>22762072
They're space marines who have fallen to the Ruinous Powers.
They have daemons and daemon possessed tanks. And they can field blobs in the form of human chaos cultists.

They also have Abbadon who's subpar in shooting, but when he gets into melee, the rape train has no breaks.

As far as tactics go:

SPACE MARINES:
+Great all arounders, easy to pick up and play, pretty resilient
-Outdone by Grey Knights/Blood Angels/Space Wolves in their respective specialties

Eldar:
+Cool units, Fast, useful Psyker abilities
-Outdated. Specialist army (each unit has one task that it excels at and often can't do anything else)

Orks:
+Fun, Conversion opportunities everywhere
-Weak army all around, no reliable anti-tank compared to other armies, outdated

Necrons:
+Have infinite tricks up their sleeves, their flyers are overpowered, really powerful all around with exceptional specialist units
- a bit boring to paint, limited conversion potential

Imperial Guard
+Amazing air and artillery, Meltavets are still great
-questionable units everywhere, lopsided codex between really good and really horrible

Tyranids
+Flying MCs wreck everything now, can produce absurd numbers of units
-Outdated, melee isn't as great now

Chaos Space Marines:
+Great all around but more choppy than loyalists, cool daemon powers and units, can be very thematic
-Some marks, units, and other aspects are crap. Works best as a hodgepodge with no distinct "theme"

Chaos Daemons:
+Cool Looking, everything deepstrikes, some of the greatest units (both visually and in strength) in the game
-Everything deepstrikes, most units can't do shit)

Tau
+Jump shoot jump is absurdly good. Same with Railguns
-So outdated that some rules make no sense. A bunch of shite units.

Sisters of Battle:
+Flamers and Melta on tap. Some faith powers are really useful and interesting. Make good allies
-Do poorly at higher point values. Outdated, overpointcosted and expensive.

Dark Eldar:
+Arguably the best looking models in the game. Fast as hell and poisonous (toughness means next to nothing!)
-Frail as fuck. Poor in high point values.

>>22762122
Right I forgot the Orkz and Tau

>>22762122
>Tyranids
>Outdated
Don't put them in the same tier as Eldar, Orkz and tau. It makes it sound like an excuse for how bad they are, but they're not that old.

>>22762056
Lexicanum is an online wiki of sorts for 40k stuff.
Just find something you're interested in and hop around articles.

Also, this is a good starting point:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MeVxKZBOfM

Here, have a possessed chaos space marine clawing a Tau firewarrior in the face.

>>22762154
For some reason I thought they were 4th, I don't play them.
I should have put "Cruddex" but it means nothing to new people and the only way it can be properly fixed is a new codex.

>>22762164
Glorious art thank you sir.

I'll ask for a bit more info about specific factions after I do some reading.

this is probably a long shot, but are there any online sites where I could play this for free or cheap? Like a 40K cockatrice?

>>22762039
you're forgetting
Orks - dice, dice everywhere (quantity = quality)
Chaos Daemons - will of the dice
>>22762072
deamon worshipping Space Marines who betrayed the imperium 10,000 years ago

>>22762196
There is something, but its kept quiet. I forget what it is called.
Honestly, I don't see the appeal. The rules aren't the best so playing it for a tactical edge is silly.
The main draw comes from having an army with a cool aesthetic, modeled and painted you own unique way, fighting some other person's (hopefully) equally as interesting army. The look of a board covered in Tyranids while a few Tau firewarriors try to hold an objective looks significantly more interesting in person than online. That said, I'm just imaginative.

>>22762281
Cool Cast or Not from a regitamate Chinese Businessman

>>22762310
I just remembered the name, it's Vassal40k. Not the casting thing.

>>22762039
Tau? ;_;

>>22762196
Update on my reading

CSM- Pretty cool, could I get some more art and some more desriptions of their units?

Imperial Guard- Boring, not worth my time.

Necrons- Pretty cool, but I feel like I'd need to get better at the game first.

I get the sense that basic Space Marines are the best army to start with, is this true?

>>22762347
Chaos Space Marines have a robot goatse dragon, some of the most powerful magic users, and their basically their entire army can get hatred against vanila space marines (which gives you bonuses against them).

Necrons are suprisingly beginner friendly I think, and they are the most versatile army for homebrewing fluff right now.

>>22762347
>CSM- Pretty cool, could I get some more art and some more desriptions of their units?
They are based off space marines but some have weapons that shoot concentrated sound waves that strip flesh and shatter bone, others are hosts to horrific diseases and almost resemble zombies (and are just as durable!), some are blood thirsty berzerkers that run into combat with chain axes, others are wizards that lead armies of egyptian-themed automatons.

>Imperial Guard- Boring, not worth my time.
On first glance I was the same way. They get better the more you know about the universe. They are incredibly diverse.

>Necrons- Pretty cool, but I feel like I'd need to get better at the game first.
Good call. They aren't too hard though, they just get finicky with the rules

>I get the sense that basic Space Marines are the best army to start with, is this true?
Yes. I recommend looking into the primarchs and their respective legions. Search into successor chapters of those legions.

>>22762347

CSM: Space marines, with spikes.

Space Marines are the ideal starter because they're so forgiving. Also, the secondary market is chock full of them.

The drawback is that everyone plays SM.

ever see a fully converted chaos devoted guard army? it's beautiful. same for admech necrons. if you're looking for rules, newer is often better with the sisters being the unfortunate exception.

Chaos Ogryn are the amongst the most awesome looking things in 40k.

Dearest OP:
Educate thyself.

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics

Have some traitor-legion specific terminators.
From the top:
World Eaters
Death Guard
Iron Warriors
Emperor's Children
Night Lords

(Black Legion, Thousand Sons, Word Bearers, and many other not accounted for)

Here is my take:

Chaos Space Marines: Corrupted marines that worship the chaos gods, fun to make, have awesome stuff like dragons, zombies and dubstep guns

Dark Angels: Deathwing: super elite terminators with nifty special rules. Ravenwing: Semi-elite bikers with awesome gear. Greenwing: Can be like regular marines, but standard of devastation makes them into the perfect sit and shoot marines

Blood Angels: Berzerking space vampires, it's all about the assault squads and sanguinary priests, who give them feel no pain. Their head librarian used to be the most OP unit in 6th edition, now he's kinda meh

Dark Eldar: S&M elves in spaaaaace! Epitome of glass cannon-ness, lots of poison, lances and speed on super fragile guys

Grey Knights: Psyker space marines that specialize on killing Daemons, accompanied by the forces of the inquisition, very versatile.

Imperial Guard: Average joes! As HFY as it gets, they can be deployed in hordes, lots of vehicles or heavy weapons galore, either way, you'll have UNGODLY firepower

Necrons: Space zombie robots from looooong ago, kinda egyptian vibe, great mid range shooting, broken fliers and interesting HQ's

Sisters of Battle: Just don't.

Space Marines: Jack of all trades marines, encourage players to make their own chapters and have fun converting!

Space Wolves: Vikings in spaaaaaceeee! They have awesome stuff like dudes that ride wolves and lone dudes that wreck shit and give you points if they die!

Tyranids: Aliens most horrifying! good at either swarming the enemy or demolishing the field with Godzilla-style super-beasties!

Black Templars: Marines that are angry, very angry. They make mixed squads with marines and scouts, but if you're not careful they will do whatever the fuck they want!

Chaos Daemons:DEMONS, in spaaaaaace! All about the rolls. they all deep strike and have some broken OP units, but others leave much to be desired. Mostly a melee army.

I'm really liking the CSM, at the moment. Is there any reason that I shouldn't use them as a standard army? And what is a standard points amount, and what would be a good list for CSM?


I guess this could become a tactics discussion now... Or more art, art is always appreciated.

>>22762767
You should pick Chaos. It's quite easy to learn and, as most units are fearless, morale isn't a big issue.
Out of what you know:
Which chaos god do you like the most?
Or, which traitor legion do you like the most?

>>22762529

Depending on how you build the army, CSM can feel like SM with spikes or something completely different, nowadays. Heck, you can make an army with no actual Marines in it with the introduction of Cultists (with a DP as your HQ), though it's advisable to take Marine characters to make them Fearless if they're being used as anything more than back-field objective-sitters.

They also have access to Daemon allies, as Battle Brothers, and Daemons make much better allies than they do a main army (some guaranteed Deep Striking on Turn 1 is a great supplemental thing to have, especially in an army that lacks ways to improve Reserves rolls or reduce/eliminate DS scatter with its own units anyway).

Having said that, you can just take Chaos Marine units and Terminators and spam plasma or whatever, and yes, it does in that case feel a lot like playing Marines. With Obliterators and Heldrakes, usually, but none the less. The thing about the new book vs. the old is that you're not pushed into this nearly so much any longer.

>>22762756
Cont'd

Eldar: Elves, in spaaaaaace! Great psychic powers and stuff, very specialized to the point that a squad meant for one thing will be godlike at it, but not much use at most other things, very nice fluff.

Orks: I would say orcs in spaaaaace but these guys are so much more, they are the epitome of crazy, all their rules are meant to explode in your face or your opponent's. They can go choppy, or they can bring dakka, or both, the orks dont care as long as something gets krumped!

Tau Empire: Blue aliens with a dystopia/utopia thing going on, hyper-technologically advanced, but not exactly good at punching things. They have awesome toys like railguns and battlesuits (gundam, in spaaaaaaceeee)

>>22762767
OP.

The best advice I can give you- the advice I would give everyone starting 40k, if I could, regardless-

1. Pick the army who's models you like the most. Fuck playstyle, fuck fluff. The coolest looking models are the ones you're going to be excited to assemble and paint and show off.
2. Get some friends into the hobby with you. Playing and learning with friends is 1000x playing with strangers at a FLGS, and even less likely to have WAAC faggotry and general autism.

>>22762857
Whose*.

Forgive me, /tg/, for I have sinned.

>>22762857
> Pick the army who's models you like the most. Fuck playstyle, fuck fluff. The coolest looking models are the ones you're going to be excited to assemble and paint and show off.

Fucking. This.

You are going to be spending a LOT of time COLLECTING AND PAINTING.
YOU BETTER LIKE THE APPEARANCE OF YOUR ARMY/UNITS

I was so sure I would start off playing Necrons, and then, for the first time, I saw the Tau units.
Minds were blown at how much I loved their look

>>22762918
>I was so sure I would start off playing Necrons, and then, for the first time, I saw the Tau units.
>Minds were blown at how much I loved their look

I did the exact opposite mate. I was all about Tau, read Tau tactics all the time, and then when about a month before I was planning to buy my first Tau models, I took my first good look at newcrons, spent $250 on the spot, and never looked back.

The funny thing is, OP, you already serve my master whether you know it or not. We won a long time ago.

Glory to Magnus. Death to the false Emperor! Death to the sons of Russ!

On the reals, though, I suggest Chaos. If the story and "feel" of an army matters to you like it does me, you may enjoy the traitors. I am of the Thousand Sons legion, myself.

Here, watch this. It isn't how 40k works on the table top, but it gives you an idea of the feel of serving the dark gods.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vzw59kIMNnI

>>22762962
I'll admit, I do love how some Necrons look (partly why I still like them, ofc), but I cannot get over how badass Fire Warriors are.

And like, find me another unit that can be painted so many different schemes and STILL look good (imo)

>pic related, one of the ~100 or so images I've saved of FWs being awesome in all the colors of the rainbow

I would advise waiting until the end of February before amking a final decision since Daemons are due for a new codex, some new units, and some new sculpts.

>>22763048
Not this guy, but also watch this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-gSJW3sHXE

This is THE video that got me started on anything and everything 40k

Agreed with everyone above.

Originally I followed people's advice of what they thought I'd like, so I picked Orks. While I had fun with them, I got tired quickly..

..then I migrated to Chaos Space Marines, near the 3.5 days. Best decision I made in this hobby. I started as Black Legion, and I still love them. I love Cultists, I love Traitor Guard, I love Mutants, Daemons, everything. Nothing makes me smile more than building a Chaos Mutant from spare parts, or greenstuff a perfect fur cape for my Chaos Space Marine Lord. These miniatures have helped me a lot through a lot of stuff, so I even got an Eye of Horus [my warband's variation of it anyways. Theres more meaning behind too, but, eh lol] on my hand. If it appeals to you, do it!

>>22763068
Feb is WoC

>>22763051
>And like, find me another unit that can be painted so many different schemes and STILL look good (imo)
I HATE boring metallic necrons.

My scheme is similar to (though not exactly like) this.

Space Marines - Good army, very forgiving, all troops and vehicles are pretty much well rounded. But the codex has been made obsolete by other marine codex's that have come out since.

Space Wolves - A medium range/close combat oriented space marine army. It lacks the versatility of support of the marine codex.
On a whole it's a better codex than Space Marines unless you're running a very niche army. that requires the specific support of the vanilla codex

Blood Angels - It's similar to codex space marines but slightly faster with some units and its specialized units are all either assualt based or fast attack based. The stormraven is one of the most powerful flyers in the game, but its expensive, and this codex will have a slightly smaller model count than a marine book, making it a bit more difficult to play but quite a bit stronger.

Dark Angels - Its hard to say as their book just came out, but from what Ive seen it tends to be really cheap standard marines with really expensive elite troops. It could arguable be played at vanilla marines 3.0, or it could be a more specialized version of vanilla marines, its too early to gauge its power/difficulty

Grey Knights - The army has a lot of stupidly powerful marines, it can be a niche inquisition list if you really tweak it but I wouldn't reccomend it. It's low model count without much more durability than its counterparts makes it squishy in comparison though. It's a harder marine book, but a top level army in general, I wouldn't recommend it for a new player but you don't have to be an expert at the game to play it.

>>22763083
After reading up on all of the legions I find that I like the Black Legion and the Word Bearers best. Is there any gameplay difference between the two, or do all CSM play the same?


>>22763068
I probably won't get started with this for a while, and when I do convince some friends to play, we'll probably just start with paper scraps or whatever to find out if we really like the game. So I'm not worried about committing to a styl and then getting fucked by a new codex.

>>22763168
Necrons - Very durable army, arguable the most durable in the game. The army’s main weakness is assault, though its characters are gods in close combat, the troops will crumble when they get hit up close. Its basic troops can damage anything they shoot at though, making it some would say even more forgiving than codex marines. It is also a top level army. I always recommend this army to new players due to its forgiving nature and high power.

Eldar – Very mobile and specialized. The army is in its own way the vest of all worlds depending on the soldier in question. However, said troops are weak in every other aspect and all die horribly without support. When you also take into account a lot of their wargear dosen’t work the way it should with the current rules and everything is slightly overpriced. This is a very difficult army, and its power is also very low. I would not recommend this army to anyone save the very experienced player.

Dark Eldar – A mid range army, it has some assault units but generally its standard troops will lose in this field unless they are supported and specialized. It is the most mobile army in the game, and can put out a lot of firepower, its guns are very versatile, in their own ways as much so as necrons. The army is competitive, but not top level, and very difficult to play. I would not recommend this army to anyone save the very experienced player.

>>22763179
Chaos Space Marines – Similar to vanilla marines. The options for their troops are more versatile than vanilla marines, however once equipped they are a bit more specialized. It can be played in a lot more ways than vanilla marines as well. Generally the army is very close combat oriented, but even that can easily worked around if you tweak it right. It’s a fun army to explore and while a bit harder to play than codex marines, but still not excessively difficult. If you’ve played other strategy games and are experienced with the field, I’d recommend Chaos Space Marines as a while note quite wet from the womb beginner army, player friendly regardless.
Tyranids – Overwhelm the opponent. Its an army that requires you to strike fast with a lot. Sadly as /tg/ has pointed out countless times the codex does have blaring flaws making it hard to get right. The general consensus from me is if you haven’t put serious pressure on your opponent by turn 2 then you’re going to lose, but if you do it right you can walk away with a quite resonant victory. The army’s focus is mostly assault, though its bigger bugs have some niche shooting. I would not recommend this army to a new player, its hard to play even if its easy to learn the basics, and due to its flaws it’s not very powerful.

>>22763191
Guard – The shootiest army in the game. Close combat is unheard of to them. They have nothing that can function well in combat. All of their troops are squishy, their defense is they have a lot of them. The strength of the army is the powerful and resilient vehicles. It also has access to the most powerful flyer in the game. Some would say the most powerful unit in the game (Myself included) the Vendetta. The huge weakness to close combat makes the army very difficult to play, no other army is quite as unprepared for it as Imperial guard, it makes the army difficult to play. I wouldn’t recommend a beginner to it, though the promise of its obviously extremely high power level makes it tempting.

Demons- I know next to nothing about this army, it dosen’t function like a 40k army. It’s the most alien army in the game. Im not even sure how it works and its been out of the meta for so long that most people are still learning how to play against it now that it’s been made powerful. I do know it’s a top level army, but I have no idea if it’s difficult to play, or how it’s supposed to be played. All I can really say is it’s random like Chaos should be, and is amazing at always catching your opponent off guard.

Tau- It’s a very shooty army, very mobile, not fast, mobile. It has a lot of niche units similar to eldar, but not quite as many blaring weaknesses. The main concern of the army is keeping the enemy at arms length, no closer not further. Some let up cans be allowed since the army has a few long range super weapons, and some of its units can hold their own somewhat in close combat. Still a difficult army to play with lower power. I wouldn’t recommend it unless you’re an intermediate player.

>>22763156
Cool base.

And I like the look of the armor....kinda like it was originally some super high tech white body (think iRobot), but now really dirty with age (60m ain't shit when you rockin' necrodermis)

>>22763202
Orks- Close combat is the main focus of this army. There’s no way around it, this armies entire goal is to get in their enemies face. Their support units and shooting units are all based to take out detriments to that goal more so than actually be effective at shooting. It has some quirks but is mostly an easy army to play. Id recommend it to a player who has had some wargame experience before. Also the easiest army to convert for.

Did I miss any armies?
Sisters don't ever get fielded on their own so I didn't include them on purpose.
Not to mention you can't find their models anywhere.

>>22763173
>After reading up on all of the legions I find that I like the Black Legion and the Word Bearers best. Is there any gameplay difference between the two, or do all CSM play the same?

You can flavor your army to be like the Black Legion or Word Bearers but there are no longer any legion specific rules.

For example, you could have allied Daemons in a Word Bearers force or a little potluck of everything in a Black Legion force (which would play differently) but it's ultimately up to you to structure your force as a representation of that legion since there's no longer support for making specific legion lists.

>>22763051

i play tau mainly, the only problem a have with them is their lack of bits. there isn't anything to make a unit really stand out in shape. I bought the all bits needed to make a blood angel commander a week ago, just because I wanted to put something together. I don't even play blood angels.

but I do love their play style. lose half your units in the first turn, still rape faces. and stealth teams get those 3 shots per unit. they wreck shit. as well as rail guns. hammerheads and broadsides. not to mention all the crisis suits are sexy as fuck.

kroots are meh until you can get them close, but still fun to paint.

pic related, random kroot

>>22763191
Not an army quite for the wet from the womb player*

>>22763173

Black Legion and Word Bearers play how you want them to play. Fluff wise, both of them are kind of the neutral ground where the Chaos Gods work on their mutual objectives, so they have everybody working together in as close to harmony as you can serving the ruinous powers, though Word Bearers tend to like daemons more than the Black Legion.

The God specific legions (World Eaters, Emperor's Children, Death Guard, and Thousand Sons) are the ones that have a more specific play style (assuming fluff is important to you).

>>22763262
I wasted my childhood away playing vidya like Starcraft and Command and Conquer, and I've always played quite a lot of strategy games, but never got into tabletop strategy where you have such huge variation and possible archetypes. That said, I think I can handle it.


Any suggestions for some units for a Black Legion army?

2/2 kroot.

I use them mainly as shields for firewarriors. if you play tau, the most important thing is to avoid open ground like the plague. this makes objective games hard, obviously, but your fire warriors will get shredded the second they leave cover.

>>22763120

>I would advise waiting until the end of February

>>22763305

Shooty or choppy?

>>22763305
Being good at an RTS has nothing to do with being good at 40k.

Being good at another TT wargame doesn't even make you better at 40k.

>>22763256
>all those vehicles and suits

Exactly. I just love how they look...I've never even been a big mecha fan or anything. Hell, ZOIDS was probably the last 'mecha' show I watched through, lol.

And rail guns are so legit- they make Hammerheads looks badass and dish out enormous damage. 1HKOing tanks cross-map on the first turn never gets old.

I plan on getting some kroots just to paint soon. I've got some random race units that I bought just because I love their look- painting > playing for me still. I dunno.

>>22763323
Is it possible to make an army that can favor choppy just slightly, but still capable in shooty range?
>>22763334
What does make you good at 40K then?

>>22763305
as a big sc2 player, let me tell you that these games are not related, lol.

Also, forget anything about good race balance (%4 deviation in top Korean GM? You will NOT be seeing that in w40k)

>>22763376
Practice at 40k. And some luck.

>>22763376
>What does make you good at 40K then?

List making and unit priority

You win

>>22763376
It's best to field fluffy armies and play other people who field fluffy armies in my opinion, and not worry so much about what's good and bad.

>>22763168
Dark Angels can be played at three different levels.
It can be Vanilla-but-better.
It can be a moderately difficult alpha-strike army with Ravenwing.
Finally, it can be Terminator Spam for the most fun you will ever have playing Marines. This one is incredibly easy to pick up on, and doesn't really have any weaknesses if done correctly. Wouldn't recommend to a true rooky, but starting out with Vanilla and upgrading to Deathwing is a sound plan. Take a Devestator squad or two(depending on points) with 4x Missile Launchers w/ Flakk upgrade if your meta is flyer-heavy.

>>22763376
If you want something that can be decent in cc and excel in shooting without being schizophrenic, you probably want GK or spacewolves.

>>22763523

Black legion can have Khorne Bezerkers and Rubrics side by side. Add some tactical marines and havocs and stir.

>>22763523
Too attached to CSM fluff to switch now. I'll probably only play with friends because there is no LGS that I know of, I'll just work on building up my own fluffy list.
Elegan/tg/entlemen and any odd ca/tg/irls that may have been in this thread, thank you all very much for your help.

>>22763608
If you decide to play a Slaanesh-heavy army, make dubstep nises whenever you shoot, and call your opponent "baby" or "honey" often

>>22763699
>call your opponent "baby" or "honey" often
I can confirm this is critical to a successful Slaanesh army

>>22763699
Got it.

>>22763376

You can do a lot with Chaos. Run regular Chaos Space Marines with Mark of Khorne, chainsword and bolt pistol for four attack rolls apiece the turn you charge. Meanwhile, you can also run stuff like Noise Marines, loaded up with heavy weapons that ignore cover. Then there's the Daemon Engines. There's a lot you can do with the current Chaos codex.

>>22763487

5 un-upgraded DA Tacticals + Aegis + quad gun is vastly more efficient and powerful than Devs with flakk. Devs with flakk are only worth taking if you need more than that and whatever else happens to be in your army that can reasonably shoot at flyers (any multi-shot twin-linked stuff, units you cast Prescience on, etc.).

(In either case it's 4 S7 shots. The Devs can give one of them BS5 but the quad gun is twin-linked, which is much better. The quad gun has Interceptor and the flakk missiles do not. You also get an Aegis Line into the mix just as a "bonus", though it's worth taking for its own sake anyway.)

>>22763173
Black Legion and Word Bearers both worship Chaos Undivided and they should play exactly the same. They get different special characters and I think Word Bearers still get Chaos Chaplains but you could mix and match if you wanted to.

Go for Word Bearers, they are far less popular and far more interesting:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Word_Bearers

>>22767724

Mechanically, they're pretty similar, but fluff-wise the Black Legion is more about dominating with large numbers of CSM while the Word Bearers have Dark Apostles leading hordes of cultist cannon fodder with daemon allies and possessed.

>>22770138
Really though, mechanically all chaos legions are the same damned thing now.

New player here /tg/. My friend has successfully gotten me into the hobby by giving me a Space Marine Megaforce for my birthday. After buying the codex, I've familiarised myself with most of the rules, but one thing really caught my eye.
The Imperial Fists. I've got a few questions about them.
They seem cool, but are they any good?
If I reinforce a ruin and stick Scouts with Camo-cloaks up there, do they get 2+ cover saves?
Is Lysander actually any good?
What type of Terminators should I put him with?

I don't want to commit too much to the Fists yet, so any answers would be greatly appreciated.

>>22770229
>Bought you a megaforce
Your friend is a bro.

>>22770229
ADAIK, fists are just generic spess muhreens. They don't get special toys or rules.

>>22761911
I assume you actually want to win games OP... so here's a simple tier system.

>god Emperor tier: Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Necrons
>high tier: Tyranid, Black Templars, Ultramarines
>mid tier: Ork, Grey-knights, Dark Angels, Dark Eldar
>low tier: Tau, Vanilla space marines, Chaos marines, Craftworld Eldar, Guardsmen
>Ward/Shit tier: Sisters of Battle, Chaos deamons,

>>22771462
>Guardsmen
>Low
>Ultra and Vanilla in 2 different tiers
>Guardsmen
>LOW

>>22770229
>If I reinforce a ruin and stick Scouts with Camo-cloaks up there, do they get 2+ cover saves?

Yes

I read over alot of these OP, and some of this advice is pretty righteous. My favorite so far is pick a race you love the look of and also, play for fun.

As a Tyranid player, I know that winning isn't everything
(Oh look! IG can field HOW MANY TANKS?!?! My one of few good anti tank guns is a blast template that scatter now?!?! ughh...) but when you see a hundred gaunts going across the field with a fist full of hideous monstrosities? It's like starship troopers....except plastic.

Also, I'm shocked no one has posted this site yet, Go here and just drown in the thousands of images. It might help you make up your mind!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/

>>22771462
I play tyranids, and they should not be that high. Maybe in a low point match, but anything above 1k and they scale badly.

>Talk of tier systems
>Salamanders are so bad people even forget they exist

>>22771579
>>22771612
>In the grim darkness of the future... everybody is underpowered.

>>22771462
Do you actually play? No one actually considers vanilla marines high tier or blood angels god tier. Also, unless you are playing blob Guard with literally no heavy support or fast attack choices it is one of if not the best armies. Best tanks, best flyers, best basic troops.

>>22771655
Chaos Daemons can also do *really* well if they max out on Flamers and Screamers. Sisters of Battle also aren't terrible, just boring and a bit limited.

>>22771655
Maybe he's hoping if he lies to the newbie he won't have to endure another Guardsfag player. God knows there's enough of them.

I'd say OP, pick anything not human so you don't look like just another boring pleb.

>>22761911
black templars

>>22771694
I would say pick whichever one you like the most regarding models and fluff. I am seriously considering starting a Dark Eldar army as a second army simply because they are like a hyper advanced (some really strange tech and Haemonculus stuff) master race (initiative 6 troops, Incubi). Also Incubi look awesome.

If he likes the Eldar the most, do that, if he likes generic space marines, do that, if he likes Tyranids, do that. No one wins if he decides to start the game and quit because he hates his chosen faction.

>>22761911

OP just watch this video and listen to this guy

http://www.miniwargaming.com/content/where-start-warhammer-40k

>>22771655
>blood angels not god tier

You've never played against them apparently. I've seen some great players torn to shreds by amateurs playing blood angels.

Watch lots of battle logs on youtube OP. Seeing other people play, gloat, and get their ass kicked will help you decide better then anything we could say here.

>>22771763
>Black Templars
>Because there isn't enough fearless, melee spam in meta

>>22771462

That is wrong dude.

God-Emperor Tier: Imperial Guard, Necrons

Powergamer Tier: Space Wolves, Grey Knights

High Tier: Chaos Space Marines, Dark Eldar, Blood Angels

Mid Tier: Space Marines, Dark Angels(though I don't know for sure yet, big codex update and all), Orks

Low-End Tier: Tau, Tyranids, Craftworld Eldar, Daemons

Somehow-people-still-win-with-these-despite-their-bad-rules-tier: Sisters of Battle

Never even seen these guys tier: Black Templars

>>22772441
You've never seen a black templars player? They're everywhere. People love their Over 9000 fist of the northstar melee shit. Point wise they can get expensive very quickly, but they're no slouches in competitive capability.

>>22772477

A Templars play came into my club once. He didn't play a game though, must've just been looking around.

>>22772441
Black templars. When they retreat they charge forward. When they charge they still charge forward! They are just awesome. BTW i am a dark angels player and that says something.

>>22772441
>>22772477
>>22772625

As a templars player who's never seen another templars player, I'd place us on mid to high. We have a lot of good things, but they don't come cheap.

Also you will never find a templars player playing a 750 point game, if we want our oaths not to bite us in the ass, we have to dump points in them

>>22772550
You wouldn't happen to be in Canada, would you?

>>22772338
The fuck are you smoking. Meta is shooty shooty shooty. Metal box assault is dead as a doornail.

>>22772291
Then they aren't do great.

I am so impressed and proud that this thread is going.

Now for my next question... Does anyone have links to the 6th ed rulebook and the most recent CSM Codex so I can view them in-browser, not download? I've been through 6th ed before, but I don't remember it.


Probably will be going with the Word Bearer color scheme.

>>22774095
scribd is probably your best bet.

>>22762342
Tau - Very shooty

If you're not fighting for the greater good you're not a good person.

>>22763487
>Take a Devestator squad or two(depending on points) with 4x Missile Launchers w/ Flakk upgrade if your meta is flyer-heavy.

God fucking hell.
Stop giving out this shitty advice.
Paying 170 points for 4 missile launchers is a fucking terrible deal, there are better ways to deal with flyers.

>>22774134
Is a fandex for CSM the same as a codex? Scribd only has fendexes. Can I use it, or is it heresy?

>>22774095
From my experience try to take khorne berserkers and kharn the betrayer :) have fun slashing everything. For extra choppers take maulerfiends.

>>22774231
That's 170 points that also rips apart regular armor, is mobile, can actually be prescienced(thank you basedVetock for giving DA Librarians Divinity)