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[ERROR] No.22728122 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

How would a squad of seasoned storm troopers fare against a veteran space marine?

>> No.22728158

>>22728122
Speaking from a pure fluff standpoint?
They'd probably get smashed.

>> No.22728161

Dead Space Marine.

>> No.22728183

>>22728161
on the tabletop definitely, but as
>>22728158
said, fluffmarines are broke as hell, and it's a veteran fluffmarine no less.

>> No.22728199

1 model from an honor guard could probably tear up some storm troop squad

>> No.22728200

Depends on just what kind of gear the troopers have. If they can get a couple melta shots off, they've got a decent chance.

Otherwise, GG.

>> No.22728216

Depending on their numbers and equipment, they "might" be able to slow the marine down long enough for them to bugger off.

>> No.22728257

>>22728183
>veteran fluff marine

I would say it depends on squad size, regardless of fluff. Killing Marines is what Storm Troopers are made for.

>> No.22728311

>>22728257
>Killing Marines is what Storm Troopers are made for.
>Implying the only thing that can take out a space marine isn't another space marine
>or a Genestealer on a space hulk

>> No.22728320

>>22728257
Technically they're made to do whatever needs to be done but you can't rely on a guard regiment to do.

They're space marines-lite

>> No.22728338

>>22728257
Storm Troopers are more of an OPERATOR unit, doing things modern-day OPERATORS would do.

>> No.22728345

Seeing as how their blasters would tear through his armor in one blast, pretty damn well.

>> No.22728347

>>22728311
Or Aspect Warriors, I think ideally in fluff Aspect Warriors should be Space Marine tier.

That being said I also agree that the Imperium's only counter to Mehreens is other marines, unless they swamp them in numbers. But stormtroopers don't swamp in numbers.

>> No.22728353

>>22728311
I think Imperial Assassins would do pretty well.
And daemons.
And Necrons.
And those damned ork snipers.

>> No.22728363

>>22728347
In fluff Aspect Warriors get spanked by marines and you know it.

>> No.22728368

>>22728345
TT yes, but it seems given the thread, we're talking in terms of fluff. And everything in 40k seems 10+ times stronger in the fluff, except guard, which seem to get weaker.

>> No.22728374

>>22728320
>Technically they're made to do whatever needs to be done

>> No.22728394

>>22728363
but they're the warrior elite of a super-advanced race, i will never abandon my position that they should be spehs mehreen tier.
And I play marines

>> No.22728407

>>22728394
>the warrior elite

They're also weaker and wear inferior armor.

>> No.22728419

>>22728353
>Imperial Assassins
Oh yeah, forgot about those. I think a Vindicare or Eversor could kill a marine. But Imperial Assassins seem to be rarer than marines.

>> No.22728428

>>22728394
And the Avatar of Khaine is literally a physical god. Doesn't mean it's a match for anything in fluff.

>> No.22728438

>>22728394
>>22728363
I agree with Apsect Warriors should be on the same tier as Space Marines, or at least near it. Certainly not in terms of durability, but as far as killing ability goes they are at least equals.
They are also as rare, if not even rarer than space marines.

>> No.22728441

>>22728347
Space Marines are meant to be a Jack of all trades, much unlike aspect warriors. If aspect warriors kill space marines, it's because of timing, tactics and trickery, which is their thing, not sheer strength

>> No.22728446

>>22728428
Except for a black templar chaplain.
Read Priest of Mars, the Avatar of Khaine wrecked his shit.

>> No.22728467

>>22728419
I think a Culexus would do fine, too, if the Marine's psychic.
Given that this is a colorized version of an official image.

>> No.22728471

>>22728374
>>22728374
John Marbo who was Guardsman Marbo's brother was one day in an manufactorum typing on a cogitator. He got servo-skull from his brother that said that aliens and monsters were attacking his place and aksed him for help so he went.
John Marbo got his cogitator shut down and wet on the spaceship to go to the level of the ship where he left his lemon russ and normal people close because he was in his office suit. John Marbo got on his lemon and said "its time for me to live up to my family name and face grim dark consquences" so he had to go.
John Marbo ramped off the launch bay and did a backflip and landed. He kept driving down the road and made sure there was no greenskins around because he ddint have weapon.

>> No.22728474

>>22728407
I don't picture them overpowering space marines or taking hits though. I imagine them with superior speed, outmaneuvering them.

>> No.22728491

>>22728419
They are. And I'm no fluff expert, but people who are always talk about some story where like 100 Marines invaded a temple guarded by a few Eversors, and only 1 Marine walked out alive.

>> No.22728495

>>22728320
This. The only reason anyone considers them marine killers is because of their AP 3 guns on the TT, which they didn't get till fifth. Even then the guns are shit against marines. When it comes down to it they are marines lite. There are no human soldiers in large numbers that surpass them physically sans space marines and perhaps some Skitarii. They are drawn from the same group of kids as commissars and sisters of battle.

Honestly however, even with a veteran fluff marine I would probably give the win to the storm troopers. They have high penetration guns, they have a ten to one advantage, and they are more stealthy. they could simply ambush the marine or lure him into a trap. They may suffer high losses, but they will kill him.

>> No.22728527

>>22728491
Close. It was several companies of space marines drawn from various chapters. The temple was guarded by 100 Eversors.

>> No.22728549

A Fire Warrior on his first day on the job was going through marines like tissue paper.

If a rookie Fire Warrior did it, then surely a Storm Trooper can do it.

>> No.22728553

>>22728491
technically they were after the Chief Assassin dude. I'd think there'd be more than "a few assassins".
Point is though they killed a company of fluffmarines and that is no small feat.

>> No.22728583

>>22728467
So'd a Callidus, what with the blade that ignores armor.

>> No.22728584

>>22728428
It's literally a shard of a god actually. Khaine survives in the form of his shards in the craftworlds from which the avatars are summoned. The Laughing God survives hidden in the webway. All other Eldar dieties were torn to shreds when Slaanesh was born.

>> No.22728593

>>22728474
Speed really doesn't matter if you can't kill the guy, and an un-augmented Eldar is going to have trouble getting through power armor without some special edge in equipment.

However, a Marine can simply rip the Aspect Warrior's fucking head off.

>> No.22728595

>>22728549
Not even Lexicanum, a wikia, acknowledges Firewarrior's existence.

>> No.22728604

>>22728474
Yeah, Aspect warriors are the weirdest game of rock paper scissors. Dire Avengers outshoot the marine but get slaughtered in CC, bashees slaughter marines in CC but have fuck and all for shooting, and striking scorpions... out sneak the marine.

Meanwhile the marine is better all around than any aspect warrior. In other words, an aspect warrior outstrips a marine in their particular aspect, but as a whole aren't quite a match for marines. It's just not a great comparison

>> No.22728610

>>22728584
forgetting Isha, are we?

>> No.22728629

>>22728593
>without some special edge in equipment.
That is what Aspect Warriors are all about, their fancy fucking equipment.
Are you sure you're not referring to Guardians?

>> No.22728631

>>22728595
Try typing La'Kaisa and see what happens.

>> No.22728632

>>22728495
>their guns are shit against Marines

Don't hate on my favorite unit in 40k, I'll just go full retard.

>> No.22728633

>>22728595
u wot m8
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Warhammer_40,000:_Fire_Warrior#.UP4xGh2wv5w
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/La%27Kais#.UP4xMh2wv5w

>> No.22728643

>>22728631
La'Kais

>> No.22728648

>>22728347
>>22728363
>>22728407
>>22728428
>>22728438
>>22728446
>>22728441
Just so we are clear 2nd/3rd ed fluff has aspect warriors and Eldar in general completely rofl stomping spacemarines. Its only since late 4th that fluff has swung the other way.

Coincidentally this tracks with the Games development team being replace with guys who grew up playing 2nd ed and having the Eldar roflstomp them on the TT.

>> No.22728657

>>22728633
Well I searched for fire wariior on lexicanum and couldn't find it.
And the character's page cites the book.

>> No.22728669

>>22728604
Except that in pratice Dire Avengers can't outshoot marines, they're simply too frail. And Banshees don't out melee marines, they don't have the strength to actually capitalize on their power swords.

So really, aspect warriors are just worse in all respects, even in their chosen field.

>> No.22728671

>>22728257
>Killing Marines is what Storm Troopers are made for.
Storm Troopers were specifically put into practice to target renegade guardsman units, actually.

They're the best of the best, but entirely outclassed by a Space Marine in all respects.

>> No.22728676

>>22728657
Maybe that's because you can't spell.

>> No.22728689

>>22728629
No Aspect Warrior besides Banshees really have a chance if the fighting turns hand to hand. At range, only the Fire Dragons are going to have the advantage.

The rest rely on situation to have any hope of getting out of an encounter with a Marine alive.

>> No.22728698

The answer is really quite obvious.

The winner depends on which side's rulebook the story is in.

>> No.22728705

>>22728676
I made a typo at 1:30 in the morning, so sue me.
And it's because I didn't add a space.

>> No.22728722

>>22728657
In the book Kais kills Marines too.

So again, a rookie Fire Warrior managed to do it and that means a Storm Trooper can certainly do it.

>> No.22728726

>>22728671
Not BS or Leadership

>> No.22728727

>>22728669
>>22728689
Oh wait, were we talking tabletop? Oh, fuck, yeah, then no aspect warrior is a match for a marine at anything. Uh... ever. Between the 4th ed codex, and the changes with 6th edition, it's just not happening.

But fluff-wise? I'd reckon that's another matter.

>> No.22728741

>>22728722
And in the book he was up to his eyeballs in Khornate daemonic possession.

Do you even BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD?

>> No.22728759

>>22728722
In the book Kais is helped by the rest of his squad.
And possessed by a Bloodthirster.

>> No.22728774

>>22728727
I'm not a fluff guy, so forgive me if I'm mistaken trying to rely on TT rules for at least basic information.

>> No.22728795

>>22728774
You are, Space Marines and Aspect Warriors tend to go through the fucking power level roof in the fluff.
But it also depends on the author.

>> No.22728820

>>22728741
>>22728759
>Bloodthirsters are FPS players

>> No.22728823

>>22728795
>depends on the author

I think that's where this, and any X vs. X question will always lead.

>> No.22728829

>>22728741
Nope.

Kais killed Marines long before any Chaotic possession took place. So...Rookie Warrior does it, Seasoned Trooper definitely can.

>> No.22728835

>>22728689
>No Aspect Warrior besides Banshees really have a chance if the fighting turns hand to hand
I'd argue that Scorpions have a shot with their superior armor and mandiblasters.

>At range, only the Fire Dragons are going to have the advantage.
Not Warp Spiders? Monofilament's a hell of a drug, especially when you can teleport.

>> No.22728851

>>22728820
>Bloodthirsters are FPS players

Holy shit that makes so much sense.

>> No.22728867

>>22728835
Gotta get close for something like that.

Meanwhile, the other guy has an automatic grenade launcher.

He can make a mistake or two, the Warp Spider really can't.

>> No.22728889

>>22728867
>Gotta get close for something like that.
Good thing they can TELEPORT

>> No.22728890

>>22728759
Nah.

When he went to rescue the Ethereal, he was locked in a room with a Marine and the wounded Ethereal.

Kais, thanks to the Ethereal, managed to calm himself and kill the marine with a few plasma shots in the chest.

I need to reread the book. I recall Kais being alone for most of the events.

>> No.22728891

>>22728867
>Gotta get close for something like that.
>He can teleport

>> No.22728906

>>22728891
>>22728889
And the Marine can see him teleport.... aaaaaaaand MOVE.

>> No.22728915

>>22728867
Might interest you to note that warp spiders have 3+ power armor just like marines. And teleport near constantly. Actually, the scorpions have 3+ power armor as well.

>> No.22728933

>>22728915
We apparently aren't talking TT.

>> No.22728939

>>22728906
>marines have constant 360 degree vision and prescience
Haha, no.

Teleport, bloop bloop. Marine is dead. Read >>22728835

>> No.22728951

>>22728906
Oh. I see.

>> No.22728977

>>22728939
LIKE I SAID>>22728689

Situational.

You're now assuming the Warp Spider is going to see the Marine first.

>> No.22729019

>>22728951
Has there ever been a real description of what a Warp Spider sees mid-jump? Can he see the reaction to his teleport, adjust the jump on the fly? Because if he can't, any Marine who has any experience against them is just going to change position so the Spider is facing the wrong way or is out of position.

>> No.22729061

Well from what I remember the Weapon the stormtrooper uses the "Hotshot Lasgun" is slowly replacing the bolter.

It's roughly about as strong, and in a pinch he can overload the magazine and use it as a grenade.

Stormtrooper has better movement and concealment *Save for the fact they both probably have motion trackers.*

Really it'd be who shot first, but then it turns into "Han vs Greedo."

>> No.22729068

>>22728977
>start taking fire
>tank it because you're in protective as fuck power armor
>teleport wherever the fuck you want
>grate him like swiss cheese because your gun is stupid overpowered in comparison, both in fluff and in game

>> No.22729075

Anyone read that DA fluff where they got an Eldar Titan to death plasmaguns until it fell down and then beat it to death with their flails.

I was expecting some level of outrage at that.

>> No.22729095

>>22729068
>teleport wherever the fuck you want

And of course the Marine doesn't move or do anything in response, he just sorta stands in whatever open space going DURR WHAR DID 'EE GO

>> No.22729096

>>22729075
wut

>> No.22729098

>>22729068
This isn't 2nd edition.
or 2nd edition fluff for that matter.

>> No.22729161

>>22729075
I'm having a little trouble parsing this. They shot it in the legs with plasma till it fell over, then used those S10 AP1 smash maces on it? Any idea which Eldar Titan it was?

>> No.22729167

>>22729096
the Hammer of the Angels story in the Inner Circle section.
Can't give a page number because i only have the digital copy.
"It seem akin to a titan yet more graceful than any Imperial Machine.
On the distant ridgelines the tell-tale flashing signatures marked teleporting terminators, their pale armor stark in the predawn darkness, arrived with guns plazing, and though their storm bolters had little effect, the blue streak of plasma struck home again and again and at last the giant fell to one knee. Termiantor strode forwards, advancing behind their shield wall, against such an assault, the Xenos could not stand."
Dunno if they actually beat it to death, but it definitely says they crippled it with small arms.

>> No.22729176

>>22729098
A bolter is a S4 AP5 24" rapid fire weapon

A deathspinner is a S6 AP- 12" assault 2 weapon

Since they both have power armor and the spider has the mobility to decide to engagement, the deathspinner is better. Two strength six shots against T4 > two strength four shots against T3.

>>22729095
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here; Someone who is trained in battlefield teleportation is probably going to be used to attacking moving targets.

>> No.22729205

>>22729167
Eh, Eldar player here. Not that crazy. Terminators closing with Eldar titans, or even imperial titans tends to wreck their shit. Eldar Titans are actually pretty weak, they rely mostly on speed and agility.

>> No.22729213

>>22729167
Eldar Titans are only AV12/13, IIRC. So it's quite possible for the Revenant, the light AV12 one, to be immobilised by St7 shots then taken down in close combat if it fails all its holofield saves. Which is probably why it didn't spark much outrage, really.

>> No.22729218

Here is an interesting match up.

Warp Talon vs Warp Spider.

Who wins?

>> No.22729221

>>22729176
I think it would be best to look back at the post, re-read them, and observe any entries into the name field. It might get you insight into the futility of this conversation if you catch my drift.

>> No.22729236

>>22729176
When you actually remove yourself from observing a target, you're now assuming you know how he is going to react.

Not only that, you have to re-evaluate your position based on your teleport and then assess the new situation based on your new position and that of your target.

There are so many variables possible in a situation like that it's almost self-defeating, especially if your target has experience against you OR is more familiar with the terrain.

>> No.22729241

>>22729205
Eldar Titans are described as moving with a maneuverability and speed that something that size has absolutely no right travelling at, in addition to titan class weaponry.

How did they hit it enough to cripple it before it wiped them out? And this is coming from a guy who loves fluffmarines; in this scenario they should be dead.

>> No.22729253

I doubt it was canon, but I remember a short story about some traitor guard, Blood Pact, I believe, completely fucking over some space marines.

It all kinda boiled down to the Blood Pact having mortars, and the space marines being yellow.

It was a fun read.

>> No.22729255

>>22729095

Fluff implies teleporting is instant, or at least near instant. Plus how does the marine know where the Spider is going to appear? Its not like there's a target lit up on the feild. The Spider does now, so he can start shooting right away. This is supported by lots of fluff, even stuff like dawn of war (not the best, but shows its consistant) and TT. Plus the Spider is 3+, so he's not exactly fragile himself.

>> No.22729262

>>22729221
It's a hypothetical discussion, I don't know why you're already going HURR TRIPFAG DURR.

>> No.22729299

>>22729213
Even TT, it's main weapon is str D, AP2, 10inch blast.
The Terminators would be done before they could get through its hull and structure points.

>> No.22729319

>>22729255
>plus how does the Marine know where the Spider is going to appear

He doesn't, but he's not going to stand in an open space and pray he's looking the right way when the Spider re-appears.

>> No.22729326

>>22729319
Praying is like.... 95% of what they do.

>> No.22729335

>>22728122
They kill him in seconds. Now a space marine captain on the other hand...

He'd take on 20 of them at once.

>> No.22729336

>>22729299
also it has 8 structure points, each one is 3 HP. Plasma weapons can only glance its front in side.
So they need 24 AP rolls of 6 that aren't saved by the titan's 4+ (3+ if it moved) invul before that canon kills them all.

>> No.22729342

>>22729326
Fair point.

>> No.22729350

>>22729319
Oh I am sick of this discussion. Hey guys If you watched Dow 2 intro, you would know the answer.

Here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_b-qBTul44

>> No.22729358

>>22729326
But they're almost all atheists.

>> No.22729359

>>22728122
Since I always disregard any fluff that the writers didn't think to match with the actual crunch of the game, Space Marine probably dies.l

>> No.22729362

>>22728122

I hate to this but unless the space marine can somehow funnel the squad into a small area so he only has to fight a few at a time, he's going to lose. It's doesn't matter how good a fighter you are, in a 1v3 where the 1 is elite and the 3 are competent, the 3 will win for the majority of the time. There's only so much an individual can deal with before they leave an fatal opening in their defenses. That's why the space marine better hope he can draw these guys out or he is going to lose. Since ST are somewhat competent, I'd expect they'd realize this too and avoid the possibility at all costs. This then means that the SM, realizing he can't draw out his opponents, would best be served by running away.

>> No.22729369

>>22729350
That's exactly what I'm talking about, the guy doesn't even move. He just stands there, gets flanked, and gets dead.

>> No.22729378

>>22729359
You must disregard 98% of the fluff for everyone.

>> No.22729380

>>22729336

>approx 300 plasma shots
>whole detachment of ravenwing

Eh, not the worst example in a codex. Better this then another no name captain lolkilling a Avatar.

>> No.22729401

>>22728632
I use them too bro, they are simply an inefficient choice.

>> No.22729405

Don't make the mistake of thinking every marine is a 100 year old killing machine. Those are the captains of a chapter, most marines are not nearly as strong.

Without an iron halo, a marine won't withstand more than a few hellgun hits (a head shot and he's done).

>> No.22729407

>>22729369

Again, how does he know where to move? He has literally no time, as its essentially instant. He can't really shoot or move into cover, as he doesn't know where he's teleporting to. His reaction time will always be lower then the spider, who:

>has fluff reflexes much faster then a space marine (its basically the eldar thing)
>knows more about the relative location of the Spider and Marine then the marine does

>> No.22729408

>>22729380
>noname captain
But it's always the codex's star.
Chapter Master of the Ultrasmurfs
Swarmlord
Whoever the fuck killed it in the Guard dex
Whoever did it in Blood Angels
both those last two i'm sure are supposed to be very impressive characters.

I personally think the Titan scenario is far less likely the way they portray titans in the fluff.

>> No.22729420

>>22729405
Meant 1000 year old...

>> No.22729426

>>22729408
>I personally think the Titan scenario is far less likely the way they portray titans in the fluff.
>implying its likely the avatar would be roflstomped in combat by anything short of a daemon/greyknight.

>> No.22729428

>>22728183
"fluffmarine" is a misleading statement. When a space marine is the protagonist, they get protagonist power. When a guardsman or, say, tau is the protagonist, they get the same protagonist power.

>> No.22729431

>>22729408

Eldar titan's aren't usually portrayed as the ultimate masters of war that Imperial Titans are. I remember reading Doom of Mym, and they are excellent, but not as impressive. Maybe they're easier to make? Manipulating wraithstone is a lot easier then recovering archeotech

>> No.22729439

>>22729420
You were right the first time.
Most marines are dead before 150.

>> No.22729448

>>22729407
>3 jumps
>doesn't re-position once
>no time

Not to mention that Warp Spider got lucky he didn't get an HB round to the chest at any moment.

>how does he know where to move

ANY move increases his chance of survival, especially if he can find a place where his back is to a wall.

>> No.22729449

>>22729408
Strangely, I think titans are one of the few units better on the tabletop than in the fluff. Its certainly unlikely, but it's possible that it happened one time. Hell, you never seen a titan going nuclear in the fluff and taking out 2 2000 point armies, the buildings they were in, and an entire objective, but I swear it happens every time I play a game of apocalypse.

>> No.22729460

>>22729449
That's exactly what they do in the fluff.

>> No.22729481

>>22729460
In the fluff, they don't usually explode though. The taking out 2 2000 point armies is done outside of that armies range with a couple of shots from the main cannon... Assuming it takes a couple of shots.

>> No.22729487

>>22729449
>mfw last game of Apocalypse.
>My scorpion kills Ork stompa,
>it explodes wipes out half the ork army,
>Another stompa decks my scorpion,
>wipes out most of my eldar.

>> No.22729500

>>22729460
No I mean, doing more damage when they get destroyed than the entire time they where shooting and stomping around. It's fucking hilarious every time, I wish I could dig up some of the battle report before/after pictures.

>> No.22729521

>>22729448

Think you have a massive boner for mahreens. The warp spiders are fucking broken in fluff, yes they still get killed because in the chaos of a battlefield the odds of getting killed no matter how skilled you are are high but they have a fucking huge advantage over marines because of the surprise element and the insane reflexes of the eldar.

>> No.22729525

>>22729075
I'm with this guy, I think it's fucking dumb they took a titan, any races titan, out with small arms.
Lascannons sure, they're anti-tank weapons. But plasmaguns? really?

>> No.22729544

>>22729521
Dude I hate Space Marines, I'm just discussing a hypothetical. And what I'm proposing isn't restricted to Marines, either.

Think you're taking this a little too personally that someone doesn't bow down to the all-powerful fluff regarding your beloved spess elfs.

>> No.22729550

>>22729236
>implying instant teleportation is removing yourself from observing a target
>implying you need to re-evaluate a position when engaging in a one-on-one fight and you're space spider man
>implying the only variables aren't "is he pointing his gun at me?" and "have I been making sure not too jump too far and get devoured by the void?"
Spiders are teleporting space marines with even stronger guns. Their only disadvantage is in close combat.. but who gives a fuck when you can teleport.

>>22729221
I curse my masochism daily.

>> No.22729554

Fact: 90% of posters in this thread would suck spess mehrene penis.

>> No.22729562

>>22729525
Yeah? Try Wazzdakka killing a fucking Titan. It's the biggest pile of bullshit possible, especially considering he can't even survive a fight against any given HQ, let alone a single terminator. Killing a Titan, phat fucking chance in hell.

And this is coming from an Ork player, who runs a bike army, and would rather he didn't have to waste 185 points on such a half-assed, worthless HQ.

>> No.22729571

>>22729525
Titans ain't so tough. A single small Tau fighter jet took one out

>> No.22729572

>>22729525
Eh, as DFG pointed out, most Eldar titans are like... AV12? Or so? They don't even have void shields. Hull points sure, but it sounds like that was mostly done with hammers in melee which will wreck any sort of titan. Again, improbable, but hardly the most ridiculous thing to even happen to an Eldar.

>> No.22729595

>>22729572
They also have Holo-Fields, which makes them retardedly difficult to actually hit. They don't fucking need void shields, and the obliterate whatever they look at.

>> No.22729597

>>22729019
The teleport is instantaneous, at least from the perspective of the space marine. From the perspective of the warp spider, the jump might take a longer relative period of time. The spider might see unspeakable warp things.

The space marine does not have time to reposition. He doesn't even have enough time to adjust his aim between displacements. The only thing the space marine can do is react to a shifting tactical situation that is orchestrated by the warp spider.

>> No.22729617

>>22729572
AV13.
Some guy earlier noted for plasma weapons to kill an eldar titan, you'd need to glance it on a 6 24 times, all of which would have to get through its 4+ invulnerable save, 3+ if it moved.
Before it kill you with its auto-wound, AP2 10" blast template.

>> No.22729622

>>22729554
Well, yeah... it's a lot easier to suck a 3" cock and consider it 'not gay', than it is to much banshee carpet and convince yourself you're not gay.

>> No.22729632

>>22729622
>munch

>> No.22729675

>>22729617
Revenant is 12, Phantom is 13. Again, improbable, but I've seen stranger things happen, especially to Eldar.

>> No.22729690

>>22729675
So basically the Eldar fanbase has become numb to dumb shit happening to them in people's codices.

>> No.22729703

>>22729622
>‘The sweat, dear Euphrati, the sweat! I have been observing the Astartes. Very big, aren’t they? I mean to say, very big in every measurement by which one might quantify a man.’

>> No.22729709

>>22729690
>So basically the non loylaist-marine fanbase has become numb to dumb shit happening to them in other people's codices, as well as their own.
FTFY
That, or they've jumped this sinking ship.

>> No.22729714

>>22729350
As much as I enjoy that cinematic, it's also full of stupid.
>slow-ass Banshees with blades that appear to just be ordinary weapons
>Ranger that's supposedly hard to spot is taken out after firing a single shot
>heavy bolter marine interpreted as literally stand-and-shoot - he would at least be taking some steps towards cover or away from the spider
>warp spider charging in a pretty much straight line towards its target
And ultimately, anybody dying in the clip does so because of "I've attacked, so now imma chill"-syndrome. Except the two Banshees that get a taste of loldreadnought.

>> No.22729726

>>22729690
kinda.
its a side effect of >>22728648

the 4th edition codex nerfed us hard, as did the 4 edition changes since the glory days of 2nd.

>> No.22729736

>>22729714
>I HAVE COME TO DESTROY YOU
>FWOOOSH
That part rocks.

>> No.22729741

>>22729726
To be fair, some of those nerfs were needed. However a lot of the nerfs were pretty excessive. And late 4e fucked over more armies than just Eldar.

>> No.22729746

>>22729709
I play Necrons.
So... not really.

>> No.22729759

>>22729746
Fair point. You and Dark Eldar about the only non-imperial faction still willing to put up with this shit.

>> No.22729763

>>22729709
Oh come now. Everyone gets their shit wrecked in everyone else's codex. The Avatar gets highlighted because it seems to happen with a strange regularity for the (somewhat broken) literal embodiment of eldar warfare. I'm numb to it because it's part of 40k. Sometimes it gets out of hand, but most of the time it's part of that 80s inspired "take it to the limit" attitude. It's not something everyone enjoys, but I dig it. See pic related.

>> No.22729775

>>22728353
Wait a second...ork snipas?

>> No.22729794

>>22729775
aka
LOOTAS

>> No.22729824

>>22729736
Absolutely, Dreadnoughts never disappoint. My late-teen-self orgasmed every time I clicked on the Dreadnought units in Dawn of War:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecB6Eh7f3l8&fmt=37

>> No.22729825

>>22729775
That's how the Celestial Lions died.
Ork snipers shot all their Apothecaries. It was really tragic and had nothing to do with the Inquisition whatsoever.

>> No.22729849

How would a quad of seasoned space marines fare against a veteran inquisitor?

>> No.22729856

>>22729824
DoWII is even better.
>THE ABOMINATION WILL NOT TOUCH OUR BROTHERS.
>TO OPPOSE US IS BLASPHEMY. IT WILL NOT GO UNANSWERED.
>THEIR WALKER CHALLENGES ME. I ACCEPT.
>THE FORTUNATE MAY HAVE TIME TO REPENT.

>> No.22729885

>>22729849
If the Inquisitor is alone?
Not much of an issue.
If the Inquisitor has his retinue as well?

That's gonna be a problem.

>> No.22729889

>>22729849
>squad of space marines
>versus one inquisitor
There is no variation of that scenario where the Inquisitor comes out alive.

>> No.22729899

>>22728338

>Stormtrooper Operators operate while operatin

We gettin /k/ in here. I like it

>> No.22729903

>>22728122
How much preparation are we talking here?

Like, are they given a day? A week? Or SUDDENLY IS FUCKING SPACEMARINENAZ ?

>> No.22729907

>>22729889
>>22729885
It depends entirely on the Inquisitor.
Hector Rex soloed An'ggath.

>> No.22729908

>>22729825
I just read the entry and i was chuckling the whole way through it.. that was beautiful

>> No.22729910

>>22729889
Wait. What about a Radical Xanthite Inquisitor? They can be a bit... slippery.

>> No.22729911

>>22729554
>Space marines
>penis

Pick one.

>> No.22729912

>>22729889
If the inquisitor has terminator armour or kickass psychic powers he might get out of it alright.

That's the only scenario, though

>> No.22729918

>>22729856
No. DoW II is shit. My nostalgia is better than anything you may come up with.

>> No.22729925

>>22728374

>wepon, wepon wep-po-pon-pon wepo-wepon wepon wep-po-pon-pon-pon

The pants were dead

>> No.22729935

>>22729912
>terminator armor
>inquisitor
Though the psychic powers is a fair point, they can be pretty hax

>> No.22729949

>>22729918
Oh yeah well my nostalgia is better than your nostalgia so Total Annihilation shits on DoW.

>> No.22729959

>>22729849
He'll just turn some bureaucratic wheels and have them declared traitoris extremis. The rest of the Imperium will then do his dirty work while he enjoys fine Lho and Tallarn bellydancers in his ultra-mansion atop the Hive Spire.

>> No.22729963

>>22729726
We might even get a new codex... maybe sometime in 8th edition

>> No.22729964

>>22729949
Total Annihilation's pretty nice. But nothing's as good as Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance when it comes to competitive gameplay.

>> No.22729970

>>22729949

That's not really fair. Brining TA into an argument about better video games is like bringing a shotgun to rock, paper, scissors.

>> No.22729974

>>22729935
Actually, many of the inquisitors have artificer armor and thunderhammers.

>> No.22729982

>>22729949
Well now you're just stating facts. That's an entirely different thing altogether.

>> No.22729985

>>22729405
and guess what? op specifically says veteran marine

>> No.22729988

>>22729963
According to Bell of Lost Souls, errybody's getting a 6e update.
line up at the moment is Chaos Daemons, Eldar/Tau (seems to flip flop who's first), and then Nids. There might be a BT WD dex before nids.

>> No.22729994

>>22729974
Artificer Armor and Terminator armor are two entirely different things.

>> No.22730001

>>22729985
Not the same, a veteran has seen many battles. A captain has seen many more, and is a cut above the rest.

>> No.22730004

>>22729935
Uh, yes. Terminator armor. Inquisitor.
You can take it on the TT.

>> No.22730012

>>22729994
They have access to terminator armor as well, but artificer armor is just better.

>> No.22730026

>>22729994
I wouldn't know what the statistics are fluff-wise, but in the codex every single ordo malleus inquisitor can take terminator armor. The FW Inquisitor Hector Rex has it as well. It's probably rare, but certainly not unheard of.

>> No.22730035

>>22730026
Hector Rex has artificer armor, I think.

>> No.22730045

If anyone is curious about an actual infantryman's opinion on this:

The stormtroopers would win, 10 to 1 is odds to steep for anyone who isn't completely bulletproof. Even if their guns have a hard time injuring his physique, they penetrate his armor while theirs is resistant to his. Also, he can only look in one direction at once, and even if he is gunning them down. Someone is going to shoot him in the back.

Same thing goes for a Spider. I was thinking logically about the tactical problem, and decided that there would be absolutely no way I could even fight a guy who could teleport even a short distance, to say nothing of the long distances they seem to be able to.

>> No.22730049

Implying a space marines bolter wouldn't tare throw them like nothing.

>> No.22730060

>>22729907
exactly, some mook inquisitor would get his ass handed to him by a veteran guardsman squad.

>> No.22730065

>>22730035

Yeah, his forge world rules call it Artificer Armour.

>> No.22730072

>>22730049
Nobody would argue that.

>> No.22730073

>>22730004
so they can.

>>22730012
Depends on what you need it for. Terminator armor is so fucking armored it gives a 5+ invul, but it the fluff it pays for all that extra armor by being slower (unless it's Tartaros Pattern).

Artificer gives you less protection but you maintain your speed.
Which is why Terminators are usually used for CQB situations like ship boarding where speed isn't as much of a factor

>> No.22730075

>>22730049
>implying it would

It's called carapace armor, they wear it for a reason.

>> No.22730081

>>22730035
Huh. Damned if you aren't right after looking it up. Which is odd since it bears a striking resemblance to the old school terminator armor that you see Inquisitors in. How very odd.

>> No.22730082

>>22730045
>theirs is resistant to his
Wut.
A bolter absolutely shreds carapace armor.

>> No.22730088

>>22730075
It stops las-rounds and stubs, not fucking bolts.

>> No.22730089

>>22730075
TT or fluff, a bolter shits on carapace armor.

>> No.22730097

>>22730075
Are you fucking retarded?

>> No.22730107

>>22730089
Wait, I'm confused. TT bolter is AP5 and Carapace armor is 4+. Am I missing something here?

>> No.22730116

>>22730088
It explicitly blocks bolter rounds. (usually)

>> No.22730120

>>22730001
That but veteran space marines are hundreds of years old with hundreds of battles under their belt, while "veteran" guardsmen have seen maybe a dozen battles and less then a hundred years of experience.

>> No.22730123

>>22730116
Power armor has trouble with bolts.

>> No.22730125

>>22730097
Are you?

>> No.22730136

>>22730107
No, Carapace blocks bolts on the TT, but in the fluff, if you want to live through an astartes bolt, you'd best be wearing powered armor.

>> No.22730142

>>22730120
I guess it depends on the definition you use for "veteran"

>> No.22730150

>>22730136
Well hell, in fluff a bolter fucks everything up. I was asking since the person I was replying to specifically mentioned TT.

>> No.22730155

>>22730123
And power armor has trouble with lasguns to. All armor has weak points. (and multiple hits degrade its protection)

>> No.22730159

>>22730116
Veterans carry kraken bolts for just that occassion.....

>> No.22730173

>>22730150
Only SM fan wank fluff, not cannon. Sure a bolt round can go through carapace, but normal bolters can't "shred" it

That's what krak bolts are for.

>> No.22730178

>Veteran Space Marine
Well most have Artificial Armour which as strong as Terminator Armour
Plus what ever weapon the Space marine was gifted

>> No.22730179

>>22730155
No it doesn't.
I defy you to find me an example of lasbolts punching through power armor from anything less than a long-las.

>> No.22730187

>>22730178
>Artificial Armour
tee hee

>> No.22730194

>>22730142
How would you define a veteran than? Someone a cut above the rest with more experience. Sounds simple to me.

>> No.22730201

>>22730178
I think you mean "Artificer."

>> No.22730205

>>22730187
Artificer Armour
My bad multi threading it now

>> No.22730206

>>22730178
Wait, what? Which veterans? Not the 1st Company. Are you thinking of the Chapter Master's bodyguard? Those are the only non-comand veterans I know of that wear artificier.

>> No.22730209

>>22730173
a bolter going through carapace shreds the guy inside.....

>> No.22730223

>>22730206
It varies in different chapters.

Plus OP didn't state what veterans

>> No.22730235

>>22730209
Yes, if it goes through. Hence the point of the armor.

>> No.22730237

I can't believe you're still arguing if a spess mehreen's bolt would go trough a caparace armour. Of course it fucking would. But that doesn't mean that the spess mehreen has guaranteed success on the storm strooper squad.

>> No.22730243

>>22730235
Which is to block lasbolts.
A bolter punches clean through carapace armor in fluff.

>> No.22730248

>>22730237
Where are you getting this idea from? What source says carapace is useless against bolts?

>> No.22730251

>>22730235
No. The point of the armour is defending against other threats. Stub rounds and las rounds, for instance.
Spess Mehreen terminator armour is shredded like tissue paper by pure blooded genestealers, would you argue that their armour is pointless then?

>> No.22730254

>>22730235
yes but he stated that a bolt can pierce carapace, if it pierces it, the guy is auto dead

>> No.22730255

>>22730251
You're confusing flak armor with carapace.

>> No.22730258

>>22730243
Wait, you sure it isn't Flack armor you're thinking of (5+) that's designed to stop lasbolts?

>> No.22730262

>>22730254
And hell guns auto pierce power armor, so if they hit vitals they kill.

>> No.22730264

>Ambushing a space marine
Lel thats what the helmet is for.
Plus most veterans have better Armour like mix and matched of older and better Armour.

>> No.22730266

>>22730258
No, flak's best against shrapnel. A couple lasbolts goes right through it.

>> No.22730275

>>22730266
You're just talking out your arse now.

>> No.22730277

>>22730248
Another dude said it earlier: Power armour is routinely fucked up by bolts, why should caparace armour fare any better against them?

>> No.22730278

>>22730262
Vitals that space marines have double of idiot.

>> No.22730280

>>22730082
But isn't carapace armor 4+?

>> No.22730281

>>22730262
Vitals like what?
One of his two hearts?
One of his three lungs?
All of which heal really quickly?
You need dedicated anti-armor weaponry to put down a marine, like melta or plasma guns.

>> No.22730286

>>22730266
Wasn't that the old rules for flack/carapace where flack got a bonus against blast weapons?

>> No.22730289

>>22730262
yeah but a bolt explodes inside, killing him pretty much instantly, meanwhile, a fluff marine can heal like a jewfag

>> No.22730290

>>22730275
Are you fucking retarded?
Since when has flak been good armor against anything but bullets?

>> No.22730295

>>22730281
>You need dedicated anti-armor weaponry to put down a marine

Or another Marine.

>> No.22730306

>>22730281
So basically the 2 hellgun guys run a serpentine while the two plas/melta stormtroopers melt the marine and the sergeant tries to rush him with a power sword?

>> No.22730308

>>22730295
Well, yes.
But Marines are hax.

>> No.22730309

>>22730278
Do they have 2 spines or 2 heads? A hellgun is fully automatic, and stormtroopers have deadly aim (equivalent to non-veteran space marines) .

>> No.22730310

>>22730295
fluff wise a bolter is anti armor.

>> No.22730321

>>22730306
thats 5 vets.... op said one.....

>> No.22730322

>>22730306
Yeah, that'd work pretty well. That would fuck up a Marine, really.

>> No.22730327

>>22730321
>How would a squad of seasoned storm troopers fare against a veteran space marine?

The fuck are you talkin' bout son

>> No.22730332

>>22730321
He said a squad. That's 10 guardsmen.

>> No.22730336

>>22730327
Hell, that's assuming it's a 5 man squad, not the 10 man. Still only 2 special weapons, but 5 extra hellguns to run distraction.

>> No.22730337

>>22730309
On TT.
Which, you know. Is nothing like fluff whatsoever.
Marines are easily better shots than Stormtroopers.

>> No.22730338

>>22730310
And it goes through most armor in 40k like butter; It can pierce power armor and carapace, but it's not an automatic guarentee

>> No.22730348

>>22730327
well.... fuck me

>> No.22730350

>>22730337
I don't even... THEY HAVE THE SAME BS!

>> No.22730363

>>22730350
YES, ON TABLETOP RULES.

>> No.22730364

>>22730350
and a scout has the same bs as a guardsmean, when a scout would out marksman a guardsman anyday

>> No.22730371

>>22730350

Tabletop doesn't equal fluff. One is balanced to make a game that is playable for all factions (in theory), the other is stories where anything can happen. There's a story of a space wolf being stepped on by a titan but since he was wearing terminator armour he survived laughing. Does that kind of survivability translate to the table?

>> No.22730389

Hell guns can not pierce power armour.
But a hotshot Lasgun can and that assuming the armour is not combat ready like most chaos marines.

>> No.22730396

>>22730389
Yeah, but hotshot lasguns have one shot per magazine.

>> No.22730406

>>22730389
bolt rounds can also penetrate power armour
if we're going to use fluff, what's stopping the storm troopers from having a bolt pistol?

>> No.22730412

Have you ever used a firearm? You do realize that lasers are far more accurate than gyrocs, right? Best human marksmen in the guard, with fully automatic lasguns and targeters.

>implying they can't hit a 7' tall brightly colored superhuman

>> No.22730419

Well, I think the devolution of this thread is a great example of how boring this conversations are.

Either we go with table top rules where an actual conversation can be held, and all get bored because there's nothing to really discuss; or we go with fluff where there's literally no conversation to be had because the power structure varies so wildly between authors, whose codex it is, and what time period it is. Either way, it's a boring empty conversation with everyone jacking off to their personal stupid shit.

>> No.22730421

>>22730406
Because it's unusual for one to have one?
Stormtroopers usually have a hotshot laspistol or hellpistol.

>> No.22730426

>>22730406
Because they only use Hell guns

>> No.22730431

>>22730419

>implying arguments for arguments sake are not entertaining

>> No.22730433

>>22730421
The Sergeant can carry one with his power sword. Just saying.

>> No.22730437

>>22730419
Well, sir.

Thank you for ruining the fun.

We'll see ourselves out.

>> No.22730453

>>22730412
>implying that 7' tall brightly coloured superman isn't better at fieldcraft than their entire platoon combined
He'll smell them a mile away. Not to mention the fact that ceramite is pretty much the ideal defense against laser weapons

>> No.22730456

>>22730431
Oh usually I'm all for it. But when it gets down to "nuh-uh! yeah-huh" with no sources or anything, it's all just a little asinine.

>> No.22730473

>>22730433
He'd honestly be better served by a plasma pistol in this situation.

>> No.22730474

>>22730453
7/10, would be trolled again

>> No.22730492

>>22730474
How do you figure a troll
A space marines helmet raises all of his senses.

>> No.22730495

>>22730474
But that's the truth.
Especially if he's from the Raven Guard or something similar.

>> No.22730503

>>22730456

I personally see it like watching monkeys fling shit at each other in a zoo. That said I am extremely easy to entertain.

>> No.22730510

>>22730437
If anything, I'm saying step up your game. Lets see some links, pictures, graph charts, football-style play maneuvers, something, anything more interesting than arguing about in what way a bolter kills a guardsman and constantly switching between TT and fluff.

>> No.22730526

>>22730474
>superior eyesight
>natural night-vision
>superior hearing
>heightened sense of smell
>the ability to march for weeks on end, without food or rest
>basically impervious to any environmental effects
>can eat just about anything
>decades (if not centuries) of field experience, starting from a very young age
1/10, apply yourself nigga

>> No.22730620

Well, in a open field, advantage goes to storm troopers..
Their hotshot guns punch through power armour, not even counting sergeant and squad weapon upgrades..
Their carapace armour stops or deflects half the bolter shots coming back..

Fluffwise, the marine has experience and gear, if he had a plasma pistol and power weapon himself or some other specialist weapons, even artificer armour, and set up an ambush location to catch them at short range he could overpower them.

But rules-wise, advantages lies with stormies, primarily cause of extra wounds..

>> No.22730630

>>22730371
>>22729617

In fluff and Apocalypse Space Marine termies are used to fell Titan formations.

>The Adeptus Astartes are often called upon to fight against insurmountable odds. Even a single Space Marine is expected to be able to overcome a foe that outnumbers him ten to one, or destroy a foe a hundred times his size without a moment’s hesitation. This indomitable spirit is embodied by the fearless strike forces known as Titanhammer squads.

>Pioneered by Captain Lysander of the Imperial Fists, Titanhammer squads proved extremely successful in the suppression and eventual extermination of the renegade Legio Unctator. Caught off-guard by the treachery of the Titans originally deployed in support of his men, Lysander’s men were easy prey for the guns of the Legio’s towering God-Machines. Thinking quickly, Lysander ordered his Terminator assault squads to split up, gathering all those armed with thunder hammers to his side before ordering his flagship to teleport him and his new entourage back to the bridge. After retrieving the ship’s sole vortex grenade from its stasis field and commending their souls to the Emperor, they teleported planetside again, this time within the void shields of the renegade Titans that were stalking towards their former position.

>Lysander himself flung the vortex grenade into the lead Titan’s path. A swirling field of non-space ripped into existence, the resultant implosion crippling the Titan so that it could not escape. Without hesitation the newly-formed Titanhammer squads climbed onto the massive treaded feet of the God-machine, striking with their crackling thunder hammers at vulnerable ankle and knee joints. One by one, the Legio Unctator’s Titans were caught and brought to earth, the dust of their impact blotting out the sun. Since that day Lysander has ordered his veterans to form Titanhammer squads whenever he expects to encounter traitor war machines, and several other Chapters have followed suit.

>> No.22730648

>>22730526
>masters of infiltration
>drop out of the mother fuckin sky
>marines faces when

>> No.22730664

>>22730630
Genestealers.

>> No.22730674

Seriously? Seriously...? This thread is retarded.

>Squad of Seasoned Stormtroopers
Full 10 man squad or half strength tactical squad?
Are they geared for drop insert, infiltration or scouting?
Does their sergent have a power sword or worse, a power fist?
Do they have Plasma, Meltas or flamers?

>Veteran Marine
Okay, is he a vet sergent? A Member of the first company? A sternguard? A vanguard? Just some random marine who's really awesome?
Does he have a bolter? A flamer? Plasma? Is he a devestator?

If it's a full squad, armed with hot-shot lasrifles and hot-shot laspistols and knives and the marine a veteran not of the first company, with a bolter and astartes knife, then my money is on the storm-troopers. A Veteran marine is no more than an average chaos marine. And a squad of veteran storm-troopers can take a chaos marine in fluff. They're used by the inquisition for this purpose.

>> No.22730678

>>22730664
Can easily rip through pretty much any armor.

>> No.22730684

Regarding the fluff argument, Why bother with Stormtroopers when a Vindicare can just pop'em from miles away?

>> No.22730689

>>22730648
>masters of infiltration
>drop out of the mother fuckin sky
>this describes any given Marine exactly

>> No.22730696

>>22730264
and most vets don't wear helmets

>> No.22730705

>>22730684
Because Vindicares are rarer than Marines by far?
The High Lords have to personally vote on every deployment of one.

>> No.22730712

>>22730696
What?
Most vets wear special red helmets or helmets with special red marks on them.

>> No.22730719

>>22730684

Because Stormtroopers are much more common than an Imperial Assassin.

It's also like asking who would win between a Space Marine and a nuclear bomb.

>> No.22730721

No chance against a veteran Marine.


>It is said that were a Vanguard Veteran armed only with his fists and his wits, he could still storm an enemy bastion and emerge victorious, and that with the bolt pistol and chainsword of his bloody trade the same Veteran would prove superior to thrice that figure of foes. Alas for the enemies of Mankind, with the vaunted weaponry of the Chapter's armoury at their disposal it is rare for Vanguard Veterans to take to the fray with such basic armament.

>> No.22730723

>>22730719
Obvious space marine

>> No.22730745

>>22730721
>I don't need a gun, guns are for WUSSES!

>> No.22730755

>>22730719
Which is more abundant in the imperium? Nukes or spess mehreens?

>> No.22730757

TT has to have some balance do it depends on the dice.
In 40k universe the storm troopers would sucking the space marines cock for how awesome he is.

>> No.22730761

>>22730723

Now I have a mental picture of a marine riding a nuke into battle like the scene from Dr Strangelove.

Thank you, my day has been made.

>> No.22730770

>>22730755
There's around a million marines.
Meanwhile, atomics are uncommon but not particularly rare, to the degree that they use them as mining charges in some places.
So, I'd say atomics.

>> No.22730778

>>22730770
>they use them as mining charges in some places
FUCKING GRIMDARK

>> No.22730795

Ten seasoned storm troopers versus a spehss?

Seeing as a storm trooper team can carry potentially two plasma guns and the like they've got a good chance.

>> No.22730808

>>22730778
Yeah, an atomic mining charge is an actual plot point in Dead Men Walking.

>> No.22730815

>>22730795
the mehreen is also a veteran

>> No.22730823

>>22730815
sure, but in one of the Eisenhorn novels ten stormies nearly nail a daemonhost. In that they manage to charge at it and bayonet it with their pentagrammatic bayonets before being boiled alive by its blood.

>> No.22730840

>>22730823
er, pentagrammic
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Prophaniti#.UP5XimeHlec

>> No.22730846

Assuming 10 stormtroopers, Sergeant with powersword, one with plasma, one with melta VS 1 Marine, Bolter, Bolt Pistol, Combat Knife. ...................................................... Everyone dead. Maybe 1-2 stormtroopers live.

>> No.22730855

>>22728122
alright so lets say nameless vet space marine, no one spectacular but not going down like a complete bitch anytime soon

option one:
ten storm troopers in the open vs the marine
marine will kill one or two before ten armor piercing shots perforate both his hearts even if he is moving and the troopers are stationary

option two:
they see each-other coming and there is ample cover available
cover will benifit the troopers more than the marine since without it they were dead in one or two shots and because of numbers can pin down the marine. From there the troopers have the ability to flank or keep him pinned while they toss overloaded power cells at him

option three:
troopers get the drop on the marine
marine is likely dead without getting a shot off

option four:
marine gets the drop on troopers
if his position is good enough and the formation of the troopers tight enough he could kill a good portion of the suad before they had a chance to respond and by them he may have killed enough to win the ensuing firefight. Or after the initial surprise if they are in a particularly tight formation he could engage and finish them off in melee

>> No.22730860

>>22730823
Guardsmen often kill traitor marines, so it doesn't surprise me to be 'onest.

>> No.22730863

>>22730855
this is also assuming they all only have hotshots

>> No.22730865

>>22730855
With option four the marine could probably finish them all with a heavy flamer given the right spot.

>> No.22730867

>>22730855
fuck you are so misinformed about space marines.

>> No.22730875

>>22730860
traitor marines armour is not as good as loyalists most of the armour is pre heresy

>> No.22730902

>>22728689

At range, only the Fire Dragons are going to have the advantage.

Good thing reaper launchers, laser lances, and prism rifles don't exist in 40k or you argument would seem misinformed....

The real reason I hate you though is you just made me defend space elves.

>> No.22730912

>>22730867
without plot armor hotshot will penetrate, one penetrating shot wont kill but ten in center of mass/organs would. Not to mention hotshots are automatic

>> No.22730927

>>22730865
yeah depending on gear in option 4 marine has very good chance of winning, mostly depending on the formation of the troopers. But since this is a vet, he wouldn't engage until he had optimum tactical advantage

>> No.22730933

>>22730855
Oh yeah, work that shaft. Really suck on that guard cock. Get in there deep boy, all the way.

>> No.22730942

>>22730912
This -is- what guardfags actually believe.

>> No.22730947

>>22730933
I'd tell you to go and suck on spess mehreen cock but theirs ain't working.

>> No.22730958

>>22730947
I would, but unfortunately guardfags have a monopoly on cock sucking in this thread.

protip: guardfags are the most obnoxious 40k fans, this thread is ample evidence.

>> No.22730959

>>22730912
Loyalists have better armour and alter it often so of course a vetern would have better armour with added ceramite plates and shit of that extent.

>> No.22730960

>>22730942
well then this comes down to whether or not you think power armor is impenetrable or not. I dunno about you but I feel like the one who is claiming their side is impervious is the bigger fanboy here

>> No.22730971

>>22730960
So...guardfags?

>> No.22730979

>>22730960
refer to >>22730959

>> No.22730983

>>22730958
ten of the best regular troops the guard can field with access to the best equipment versus middle management marine... and we are the cock suckers? Ok

>> No.22730991

>>22730983
This is what guardfags actually believe how is Cadian?

>> No.22730995

>>22730983
what do you mean muh space marines can lose to regular humans?! guardfag gonna guard!!
told

>> No.22730999

>>22730959
sure you can assert he has impenetrable armor

I can assert you are wrong

conversation ends there

>> No.22731005

>>22730995
told indeed battlebrother

>> No.22731012

>>22730983
One is going by the fluff, the other is sucking cock.

Hint: guardfags love sucking cock.

>> No.22731025

>>22728122
>shove FNG McLimpdickconscript out into the open, bent forward, pants around his ankles
>wait for it
>wait for it
>waaaait for it
>screams
>detonate melta bomb cleverly concealed under his helmet

>> No.22731029

>>22731012
you sir are a gentleman and a scholar. Your wisdom almost outshines the emperor himself

>> No.22731030

>>22731012
Avitus please calm your shit.

>> No.22731033

>>22730778

Dude, check out the USSR. Its not that fantastical.

>> No.22731039

>>22731030
Not while there are still guardfags who don't know how weak and worthless they are.

>> No.22731054

>>22731012
Going by fluff an overclocked laspistol can send an astartes "reeling", pen his chestpiece and lightly wound him, at the cost of the entire charge pack. 20 Conscripts doing that at once with rifles could probably deal with one or two marines, which would be pretty dire if the Guard weren't guaranteed to outnumber them by that much and more.

It's 40k, you can pick and choose fluff however.

Source was Storm of Iron, the last stand the Guard officer and Techpriest make right at the beginning of the IW attack.

>> No.22731073

>>22728122
stormtroopers by TT and I always assumed fluff is 90% propaganda for the respective faction except for those which propaganda would not exist

>> No.22731093

I've got to go with the Storm Troopers in a fair fight. Mostly because they can usually take down a traitor marine in the fluff at that level, and traitor marines tend to be at least the equal, if not better, then loyalists in the fluff.

>> No.22731250

We assume that the marine has a bolter, combat knife, grenades, and power armour with auto senses.
A properly equipped Storm Trooper squad has a couple of plasma guns or meltas.The whole squad will be properly trained in fighting in formation against rampaging killing machines- normally xenos but the training will apply to marines pretty well.
What I'd say is that if the marine can engage a storm trooper, that one will die. The lasguns are of debatable use, but still pose enough of a threat that the marine can't just ignore them. The special weapons, on the other hand, will just vaporise the marine.
So, option 1: the marines and storm troopers are out in the open. The marine is vaporised by a volley of plasma/melta, and some las shots of debatable effectiveness. The guard won't take more than 3-4 casualties maximum before the marine goes down.
Option 2: As before, the storm troopers set up so that they can get a crossfire on the marine, forcing him into the plasma guns field of fire. He's then vaporised as before. Again, the guard will take 3-4 casualties- the cover protects them better, but they will need to be more reckless to get a good shot off at the marine.
Option 3: The marine realises that a squad of storm troopers have ambushed him. He might be able to drop 1 or 2, and then he's vapourised.
Option 4: this one goes best for the marine. If he's smart, he picks the storm troopers off one by one, focussing on the biggest threats first. On the other hand, the storm troopers are well trained and work as a team. I'd say there's a good chance the troopers get wiped (depending on how effective the marine is at use of cover) but if they get lucky and get their plasma shots off, the marine is vaporised like a little bitch. i'd say this one is roughly even.
The point here is that everybody dies like a little bitch to plasma guns and meltas. The only debate is if the stormtroopers can bring these specialist weapons to bear in time.

>> No.22731388

>>22729350
Almost 1% of the Blood Ravens died in this cinematic. How does that make you feel?

>> No.22731734

>>22731250
*slurp*slurp*

>> No.22731753

>>22731250
As a variant of the original question, a veteran of which chapter of Space Marines would have the greated chances of winning this?
I'd say Raven Guard.
Best at not getting hit, dividing the opposition and target prioritization. Doesn't matter how dangerous plasma guns are if you never see the target to shoot at.
On the other hand, Raven Guard veterans would probably have the worst performance of all chapters' veterans if the fight happened in a literal white room with no cover.

>> No.22731900

>>22731734
nah, more *click*whirr*WHOOOSH*pof*
That the sound of somebody activating a plasma gun, charging it up, firing it and anihilating a marine.

Like I said, plasma will fuck pretty much anything up. It's just a matter of if the storm troopers have an oppertunity to fire it. What swings it for them is a combination of numbers and the fact that the squad is trained as a team. And you can't claim that plasma is inefective after this thread declared a bolter to be some sort of magic death rocket, and plasma weaponry utterly outclasses bolt weaponry.

Of course, you could just claim that there's no way anything could beat your super special awesome marine ever because he's just so kewl. If you want to believe that, that's fine... but it means you're the one desperately sucking at shrivled astartes cock.
*click*whirr*WHOOOSH*pof*

>>22731753
Raven guard or possible white scars. It's about stealth, speed and precision in taking the threats out, not raw power, and I'd say these chapters are best at that. Also night lords and alpha legion, they should be pretty decent in this situation as well.
The point is, if the marine takes a shot from a plasma gun, he's almost certainly dead, so the scenario rewards un-marinelike behavior. Perhaps ironically, a single aspect warrior could probably win this encounter incredibly easilly, depending on the aspect- only fire dragons and dark reapers lose, as those two rely on raw firepower rather than finesse.

>> No.22732153

>>22731900
This is assuming the plasma weaponry hits.

>> No.22732325

there are two plasma guns in a squad, and a seargent with a plasma pistol. All three guns are more likely to hit than not, as stormtroopers are pretty good shots and marines are pretty easy targets, so the chances of all three weapons missing is pretty low.
There is a decent chance that the marine won't kill anybody important, either killing a grunt with a lasgun first, or even messing up- a stormtrooper might be able to survive a few seconds, buying his squadmates ore time. Even if the marine is 100% lethal and drops his target with every shot,in the time it takes the marine to drop one of the three plasma users, the other two continue shooting him. Again, they have a low chance of missing the marine, but if both continue to mess up, the marine can drop another plasma user. This leaves a final plasma user, who the marine can dispatch. It is at this point that he realises that the surviving storm-troopers have picked up their mate's plasma guns.
It is incredibly unlikely that well trained soldiers won't land even a glancing hit on the marine in the time it takes him to kill them all- indeed by far the most likely result is that the marine is barbequed in the first volley

>> No.22733093

>>22729763
>Eldar Titan Crew.
Fuck. Rarely seen something more awesome in 40k.

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