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[ERROR] No.22718580 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

responsible for fluffy Gems like
>Kaldor Draigo
>Varro Tigurius
>Marneus Calgar
and coming soon: "Ork Warboss that could rival the emperor himself"

>> No.22718743

>Kaldor Draigo
Eh. terribly written character, but the warp is a realm where the impossible happens everyday. This'd include someone stomping around being untouchable while he really, really shouldn't be.

>Varro Tigurius
A human farseer. Whoopity fucking doo.

>Marneus Calgar
Calgar's Sue license has been revoked after he bend over and took it from the Swarmlord.

Subjective. Some like 'em, some hate 'em.

Wonder what he'll write next. Tau? Eldar?

>> No.22718752

Oh, and
>and coming soon: "Ork Warboss that could rival the emperor himself"
has already been done. One of the HH novels, I believe.

>> No.22718797

>and coming soon: "Ork Warboss that could rival the emperor himself"

Ork's are going to have a corpse on a throne as their warboss? That doesn't seem very orky...

>> No.22718836

>where the impossible happens every day

Or Tzeentch is going all "Just as planned".

>> No.22718857

shitty rules will be gone in an edition or two
shitty fluff is forever

>> No.22718884

An ork that's dead but sits on a throne of teef carried around by grots and still krumps any wot tries to usurp him? Sounds pretty orky to me.

>> No.22718885



>> No.22719053

Does he also require ten-thousand orky souls every single day for the Orkronomicon, which is not all that bad considering that orks reproduce like while fire?

He must of been so big and stompy, he could've stomped ol' Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka to shame...

>> No.22719088


>Ward responsible for
>Varro Tigurius
>Marneus Calgar


>> No.22719119

>and coming soon: "Ork Warboss that could rival the emperor himself"
Tell me more

>> No.22719123


>and coming soon: "Ork Warboss that could rival the emperor himself"

That has already happened.

Back in the late 80's/early 90's there was a story about how a Warboss nearly killed the Emperor and how Horus saved his life.

>> No.22719146

>>Kaldor Draigo
>Eh. terribly written character, but the warp is a realm where the impossible happens everyday. This'd include someone stomping around being untouchable while he really, really shouldn't be.
Draigo is the biggest mary sue in a universe full of them. He's pretty much a rejection of the grimdarkness of the setting, in addition to just be a badly conceived and written character.

>> No.22719203

>and coming soon: "Ork Warboss that could rival the emperor himself"
Hahaha, you wish.

We're more likely to get Ork Warbosses who would rather prefer a 33% chance to pick their nose on any given turn, as opposed to charge the dude 2" away.

>> No.22719228

I concur.
They are both not magnificent enough to be of this man´s grand design and impeccable taste,

>> No.22719233

>He's pretty much a rejection of the grimdarkness of the setting
Doomed to forever wander the warp where your actions can't change a thing as every demon you slay returns and every chaos monument you topple raises itself yet still find yourself attacked by the most gruesome terrors the warp has to offer day and night, with only fleeting returns to realspace to remind you of the freedom you will never have isn't grimdark these days?

>> No.22719299

He made the Newcrons weaker than the old-crons, they can now die, suffer from programming degradation, and can no longer cross the galaxy in the blink of an eye.

>> No.22719337

Yup. Sounds pretty sue-ish to me. It goes hand in hand with the whole 'unfair and tragic' backstory shlick.

>> No.22719352

It was probably the way it was portrayed; I personally never read up about Kaldor Draigo, but from what I have heard is that he was pretty much thrown into the warp and comes out to still kick ass. probably how they wrote the character that makes hims less grimdark than he should be.

>> No.22719365

>Calgar's Sue license has been revoked after he bend over and took it from the Swarmlord.


Calgar repaid the Swarmlord by breaking him in two in Ichar.

People for some reasin omit this little detail.

>> No.22719420

>Back in the late 80's/early 90's there was a story about how a Warboss nearly killed the Emperor and how Horus saved his life.

First of all, FUCK YOU.

The Warboss was struggling to choke the Emperor. The Emperor was not in any danger and this event was probably a test for Horus.

>> No.22719485

This is what you sound like.

>> No.22719523

>On the Ork-infested planet of Gorro, Horus repaid the debt by hacking the arm from a huge, frenzied Greenskin warlord as it struggled to choke the Emperor’s life out of him.
- Index Astartes: Black Legion

>> No.22719525

Yeah but knowing Ward this'll probably be a new character that makes the Emperor a pointless piece in the fluff.

>> No.22719536


And this is what you folks sound like to me, Xenophile.

>> No.22719550

What it really was a test to see if Horus was trustworthy.

He took his damn time!

>> No.22719553

What if this warboss that can rival the emperor is... THE DEFFBOSS?

>> No.22719560

I like the Newcrons.

>> No.22719631

If the ork believe him to be alive,l he WILL be alive after all

>> No.22719659

Okay, how about someone drops actual titles - and maybe even quotation, because its the second thread created in 3 hours, where we have that argument.

>and coming soon: "Ork Warboss that could rival the emperor himself"
[citation needed]

No seriously guys, you're either making stuff up or I should start following Matt on Twitter

>> No.22719691

>badly conceived and written
Interesting, i thought this described 40k as a whole.

>> No.22719727

Wardian Newnids:
>warmachines of a bioengineering master race, basically Engineers/Space Jockeys
>introduce said masters as characters, have them stroke a white ripper, whirl their bio-mustache and muse about how awesome and evil they are and how all the inferior races must die
>reintroduce Zoats and other slave races

Search your feelings, you know it to be true. No more stupid space cthulhu om-nom-nom zerging. Well rounded and characterized space aliens who just prefer to use organic constructs instead of synthetic ones.

Hey, some people like getting pooped in the mouth.
Who am I to judge them?

>> No.22719785

Not really. It's stupid, but not very dark or in tune with the rest of the setting.

All other people who have an idea of how hopeless the situation is are invariably insane, apathetic or corrupted, most often in some combination. Chaos can't be defeated and the galaxy can't be fixed. The Imperium is doomed and rotten to its core and anyone who knows this truth is probably the cause of it. Chaos is not the original cause of why the world is shit, but rather it is the consequence of humans being irredeemably evil, collectively speaking. There are people fighting for humanity, but they are not aware of how bad things are, how much it is their fault or how futile their efforts are. Only the ignorant, insane or corrupted people fight on, because they think it's worth something.

But Draigo perseveres, even after he's seen all the worst nightmares facing humanity. He has firsthand experience proving that his struggle is futile. He has walked where no other man has walked without losing their mind, soul or even faith; but Draigo carries on where no other could. He carries on because it is the good fight; because even if it doesn't matter it is the right thing to do, despite being constantly beset by powers that warp mind and eats soul. But Draigo carries on and that's why he doesn't fit the setting.

It's basically just a case of "one of these things is not like the others."

>> No.22719805

>The Warboss was struggling to choke the Emperor. The Emperor was not in any danger and this event was probably a test for Horus.
Yeah, after that the Emperor awarded Fulgrim and his Legion with the eagle's wings for providing a brush when his hair got tangled. And the triumph at Ullanor was actually because Horus went to the supermarket when the Golden Throne ran out of toilet paper.
You don't give people honours for doing meaningless stuff.

>> No.22719806

>He's pretty much a rejection of the grimdarkness of the setting
When you say it like that, he almost sounds appealing.

>> No.22719810

That's fine. You're welcome to like whatever you like.

Personally, I can't stand them. C'Tan star-vampires aside, I rather enjoyed the old-crons with their unrelenting "faceless murder-bots" style. It had a certain unrelenting, impossible to reason with cinematic horror to it that I grew up appreciating from movies like Terminator and Terminator 2 as a kid. Newcrons just feel like a bunch of old codgers yelling at kids to get off their lawn, while they twiddle their mustaches and reveal their great evil plans to those damnable meddling kids. But some people like that, so to each their own.

>> No.22719832

He provided his loyalty to the Emperor. Obedience is rewarded.

>> No.22719835

Doesn't work that way.

>> No.22719845


Ward did a great job with the Necrons.

He took an army with limited background and expanded upon it without massive retcons and without sacrificing the feel of the army.

You had an army of all silent Necrons serving the Nightbringer and focused on exterminating all life? Great, you can still have that.

>> No.22719847

They were metal Nids.

>> No.22719857


>> No.22719876

>Well rounded and characterized space aliens who just prefer to use organic constructs instead of synthetic ones.
Wouldn't be as big of a change as you'd might think seeing as cruddace has already set them down this path.

>> No.22719930


But they still are faceless murder bots, it's just that they are mustache-twirling villains as well.

You can have an army that is both or neither, and that's what's great about the codex. Instead of deciding how your Necrons should be it just tells you to go for it.

Do Necrons move in a jerky fashion with rust leaking from their joints, or are they an efficient army all moving in unison? Instead of giving either answer it lets you choose.

>> No.22719935

So he took robotic Tyranids and turned them into robotic Eldar. Should we slap a medal on his chest now or should we wait until he's finished patting himself on the back?

>> No.22719939

By adding the Swarmlord?

>> No.22719963

>Great, you can still have that.

Only now they'll be that way because of malfunctions and mental illness rather than design. And sealing away the Warp and turning the galaxy into a feasting ground for sadistic energy vampires? It was never a certainty even in the old fluff - now it's pretty much impossible.

>> No.22719976

>turned them into robotic Eldar.
I wish the eldar let you play around within their fluff as much as the Necrons.

>> No.22719979

Yeah, I hated how much the Necrons stole from the Eldar.

>> No.22719988


Necron pylons have featured more in the lore since the Newcron codex than before it.

>> No.22719995


What did they steal from the Eldar?

>> No.22720003


They still try to seal the warp, but for their own reasons rather than for the C'tan.

Some Necrons still fight for their C'tan masters though.

>> No.22720008

to the window! to the wall! til the sweat drips down mah balls, to all the bitches crawl! aww skeet skeet moh focka, aww skeet skeet goddamn!

>> No.22720024

Bullshit and you know it. Craftworlds, Kabals, exodites, and the corsairs fluff can be played just as much?

You need to get your head examined.

>> No.22720048

>Kaldor Draigo
>Varro Tigurius
ripoff a song of ice and fore more?

>> No.22720053

>Some Necrons still fight for their C'tan masters though.


>They still try to seal the warp, but for their own reasons rather than for the C'tan.


>Necron pylons have featured more in the lore since the Newcron codex than before it.


>> No.22720112

Oh you're one of those guys who thinks it's if it's not explicitly stated either way, it can't happen.

Why do you even bother with a setting where homebrewing fluff is such a big draw?

>> No.22720122

This is incorrect. Old Necrons represent a theme known as Man vs Machine. While Tyranids represent the theme known as Man vs Monster. The differences are quite stark, actually.

Man Vs. Machine deals with an antagonist that could very likely be something humanity has made, has the capacity to make, or that something else made. Regardless of the origin, the result is still that man vs machine features an antagonist that is unyielding, emotionless, unliving, and that has the single-minded intent to murder the protagonist(s). Examples include Terminator 1, the T-1000 from Terminator 2, and many of Isaac Asimov's great science fiction works.

Man Vs. Monster portrays the antagonist as much more of a 'natural threat'. Such as a beast, or living creature running on the instinct to survive. It's goals may be simply to feed, or reproduce, as opposed to simply 'murder everything in sight'. Or it's goals may be infinitely darker than simple biological drive to survive. In any case, the man vs monster taps into the very primal fear of a living creature that may act in ways that cannot be predicted. Much like a tiger, crocodile, tyrannosaurus rex, or the Xenomorphs from the Alien movies.

Therefor to say that the Old-Crons are just 'metal Tyrannids', is grossly inaccurate. Much in the same was as saying that the xenomorphs from the Alien movies are just 'shiny black Cylons'.

>> No.22720180


>Some Necrons still fight for their C'tan masters though.

White Dwarf, the one that came out the months after the Necron Codex. Gives some fluff on the C'tan and how to field the named ones.

There's a scan of the page that floats around on /tg/, hopefully someone will post it when they see this.

>They still try to seal the warp, but for their own reasons rather than for the C'tan.

The Primarchs: The Serpent Beneath

>Necron pylons have featured more in the lore since the Newcron codex than before it.

The Primarchs: The Serpent Beneath
Army of One
Know No Fear

>> No.22720192

Summer Campaign this year will involve a WAAAAAAGH so large that Ghazghul becomes more powerful than a Greater Daemon.

>> No.22720203

So no sources?

Alrighty then. All claims are dismissed!

>> No.22720206

But that warboss already existed.
Saw the Emprah and was like "Hold me shoota boyz, I gots ta choke a bitch"

>> No.22720216




You thick git

>> No.22720222

Good thing this board is anonymous, that's embarrassing.

>> No.22720240

Necrons were Space Vampire Counts. Now they're Space Tomb Kings.

>In short, the background provides the beginning, but the players provide the end.

You can use unaswered questions, gaps and hazy descriptions to make campaigns, armies, etc. But that does not mean the written material doesn't matter and it most certainly does not mean you can just come up with any bullshit you want and try to pass it as official fluff.

>> No.22720254

Oh sources!

I saw the C'tan WD page. I saw nothing that says there are Necrons still serving the C'tan.

So at least this one is false. I will have to look at the other sources to see if they're false too!

>> No.22720268


>I saw the C'tan WD page. I saw nothing that says there are Necrons still serving the C'tan.

Could you post it?

>> No.22720275

I am a slow poster.


>> No.22720294

I think that supports his point though, since "are the there necrons who still serve the C'Tan", "Do some of them still try to seal the warp" etc. all fall under the player filled gaps.

>> No.22720304

>But they still are faceless murder bots, it's just that they are mustache-twirling villains as well.

And see, I don't get this feeling at all from the newcrons. They went from an omni-potent threat to 'woken up and just chilling out for the most part'. As an effort to keep the 'murder-bot' theme going, they even have a device that can extinguish any given in the galaxy. But supposedly the repercussions are too great for what should be effectively immortal, unfeeling, hate machines.

Again, you are welcome to like the newcrons. You're welcome to view them as giving players a 'choice' in how they want to be perceived. In my case, I can't unsee them as the not-so scary mustache villains we have now. Just because new background has been attached on to the old style, doesn't mean it's for the better in everyone's case. I much preferred Necrons when they were a completely characterless, murdering entity of fear that nobody in the setting wanted to deal with (except maybe Orks). To add on named characters (beyond the derp-Tan), and have them scheming effectively removed that veil of unknown fear. It's a situation of 'too much has been shown'.

Again, you can enjoy it all you want. I'm not stopping you or telling you not to have fun. However, I find nothing fun or enjoyable about the new Necrons. This is purely my opinion and I'm not forcing it upon anyone else.

>> No.22720317 [DELETED] 

>that can extinguish star any given in the galaxy

>> No.22720319

Oh I will,

>> No.22720331 [DELETED] 


>> No.22720337

>they even have a device that can extinguish any given star in the galaxy.

>> No.22720350


There's also mention in the C'tan unit entry how there's still C'tan at large.

In the digital codex it also mentions a Necron Lord that has resurrected so many times that they doubt it's a Necron, but rather something more sinister.

>> No.22720370


So you can't enjoy your Necrons because others are enjoying theirs an another way?

Not trying to be mean, but that sounds a bit autistic.

>> No.22720381


>> No.22720382

Yes, but those same gaps fit steam powered brasscrons with tops hats and gaussteins in hand and serving the almighty C'tan shard Cleveland the Steamer.

The claim was that some Necrons fight for their masters. I've yet to find any indication of this in the written fluff. Yes, you can make "that one" army that is still under the influence of their former master, but that does make it official fluff no more than having "that one female space marine army that's female and space marine because of reasons" would be.

>> No.22720414

>The Primarchs: The Serpent Beneath
>Army of One
>Know No Fear

There's also Abaddon's plan to destroy the Cadian Pylons in the latest CSM codex. On the other hand, pre-Newcron material had:

- The stuff in the Necron codex about the great warding.
- Heretical Inquisitor Quixos's plan to recreate the Cadian Pylons on Farness Beta and close the Eye of Terror.
- Pylons appearing on the sentinel worlds during the 13th Black Crusade, in which the Necrons actually aided the Imperium by attacking the forces of Chaos.
- Failed attempt to construct pylons on Medusa V and shield it from Van Groethe's Rapidity, which would have allowed the world's population to be harvested at the Necrons' leisure.

I vaguely recall there being more, but I can't remember at the moment.

>> No.22720419

Dude, you know that back when the mep was roaming, Orks bosses were way bigger and way deadlier, right? That boss was twice as big as the emps and managed TO FUCKING SNEAK UP ON HIM, because lolorks.

>> No.22720424


Are we even reading the same post here? Dude is just saying he prefers the old-crons and explaining his personal position.

>> No.22720436


>> No.22720440

>So you can't enjoy your Necrons because others are enjoying theirs an another way?
No. You completely missed my point. I can't enjoy the newcrons because I can't unsee them as mustache twirling saturday-morning-cartoon villains. Even though there are still "necrons serving under the C'Tan", that wasn't what I liked about them. Hell I never even liked the C'Tan. I just liked the enigmatic death-robots that nobody knows anything about, cannot be reasoned with, don't even give a hint of communicative abilities, and ultimately are just out to kill YOU. It tapped into a theme that I love about old killer-robot sci-fi.

Whether or not anyone else enjoys the newer power-ranger villain version, is of no concern to me. So I personally have no idea how you're getting it into your head that the reason I can't enjoy something is because other people are enjoying it in their own way. Other people have nothing to do with this. Rather it's my love of old man-vs-machine science fiction.

>> No.22720443


The C'tan mentions that not all C'tan were sharded.

The list of dynasties also list a seemingly immortal Necron Lord rumoured to be an entity masquerading as the Necron Lord.
What entities can inhabit Necrodermis bodies?

>> No.22720445

This is the WD page mentioning the C'tan. Names and abilities, and nothing else.

>> No.22720458

>and coming soon: "Ork Warboss that could rival the emperor himself"
oh no! how terrible! Because terrible!

custamizability is a bad thing, folks

yeah he has problems writing those

>> No.22720466

Well, for one all the Necron fluff that's being written now is all about Newcrons. So when in the old days you could read all the little tidbits here and there, Rise of the C'tan, the Death of Light(?), etc. you has mysteries and stuff. It's like reading about the mysterious orient in the 20's and 30's and then actually going there and ending up in some cheap tourist trap in some shitty part of town and everyone's rude, etc. And nobody writes about the mysterious east anymore, now it's all about Mao's China and so forth.

You will always have your memories and all the old books, but you they're just fiction and have no meaning. You'd be living a lie.

>> No.22720470

>and coming soon: "Ork Warboss that could rival the emperor himself"

Isn't Ghazkhul pretty much this already?

>> No.22720475


But there still are dynasties out there that fulfill that killer-deathbot trope.

Why does every dynasty have to fit into that small box?

>> No.22720477

fucking awesome

>> No.22720480

>What entities can inhabit Necrodermis bodies?





>> No.22720481


I think he's saying that the names sound similar to characters from A Song of Ice and Fire. It's drive by trolling at it's most standard.

>> No.22720489

That Ork Warlord doesn't measure up to all the other foes the Emperor defeated. The Emperor displays of power makes any claim that he was in any danger from that Ork sound utterly silly.

>> No.22720502


...Somehow this works.

>> No.22720503

I always found the newcron article funny, especially the bit on Flayed Ones. "They have 3 base attacks! This makes them your closest thing to a baseline assault troop!" Nevermind they were reduced from Initiative 4 to Initiative 2, and their 3 attacks didn't change from the older version...

>> No.22720505

>ruled the galaxy with an ancient empire
>used as weapons in a war between gods
>their gods disappeared or died a long time ago
>their empire fell apart
>still has a lot of colonies that are believed to be the future of their people
>masters of technology unequaled by younger races
>can see the future
>makes use of the Webway to move around
>they have weird, interdimensional loners that can appear out of nowhere and then rip things apart in CC
>notoriously arrogant towards everyone
The list probably goes one, but this was at the top of my head just now. The Newcrons are pretty much Eldar without the disadvantages the Eldar have. If you're ok with that then that's fine by me.

>> No.22720512


>> No.22720517

No. He's just a really prominent Warboss.

>> No.22720529


I agree that the lack of background did give the Necrons flavor.

It could never last though as more and more fluff was written about them. Besides, to me it felt like I was playing an NPC race, just a faceless evil for the Ultramarines to smack down.

Now my army has its own character and leaders with actual names and backgrounds.

>> No.22720533

Straight from thew start you hand me bullshit. The C'tan entry says all that remains of the C'tan are shards. I didn't any mention of a C'tan escaping the sharding.

So I doubt the whole lord thing, unless you can point it out for me.

>> No.22720534


It's the Changeling, for the star vampires and metal men may plot and scheme like the enthroned corpse or the dying Eldar but, as ever, it shall be TZEENTCH who pulls the strings!

>> No.22720541

He ain't all that. He got beat up by a 'umie, after all.

>> No.22720551

>But there still are dynasties out there that fulfill that killer-deathbot trope.

Because I cannot 'unsee' them as they are explained now. And even with there still being 'silent murder-bot dynasties' elsewhere, it doesn't change the fact that now far too much of their background and theme has been revealed/written.

Again, I'm not telling you "it's badwrongfun". I'm telling you I personally find myself unable to enjoy it. If you like it, then more power to you.

>> No.22720553

Kaldor Draigo sounds vaguely like Khal Drogo

Beyond that, I got nothing. Dafuq is Varro Tigurius supposed to be? Varys?

>> No.22720554

Well, didn't the Laughing God trick the C'tan into consuming each other in the old fluff? So surely any other warp creature could do the same. And some Necrons are working on a way to transcend into energy beings like the C'tan. And 5e rulebook says that some lords have bodies fashioned to resemble the old Necrontyr gods. And the rulebook mentions rogue AI's that have taken over several tomb worlds, so maybe they've constructed some battlefield master control nodes for the AI to dominate the battlefield with SCIENCE!

Where is this bit about there being full C'tan, because I've heard about it but haven't seen any. Only bit I can find is that the shards still retain their self, are nearly limitless in power (still) and there's plenty of fail-safes in place to prevent their escape (which would indicate that escape is possible enough to warrant such extreme protection).

>> No.22720563

So I heard Ward got death threats sent to him in the post. Is there any truth to this?

>> No.22720603

Probably, but I don't know for sure.

>> No.22720608


>The C'tan entry says all that remains of the C'tan are shards

Codex Necrons, C'tan Shard unit entry.

Read the paragraph starting with "Whilst it's true that many C'tan Shards are now indentured to Necron service..."

>So I doubt the whole lord thing, unless you can point it out for me.

Codex Necrons: page 17, Nazarakh Dynasty.

>> No.22720625

>Besides, to me it felt like I was playing an NPC race, just a faceless evil for the Ultramarines to smack down.

And for me, that was exactly what I loved about them. Really when you get down to it it could be argued that everyone not playing loyalist marines is playing an NPC-race in 40k. But Necrons really did feel like you were playing the extra-grim end-game scenario army. The unkown man-vs-machine death of the galaxy that seeks to expunge life and possibly harvest souls for no known reason.

And true, it couldn't last... But meh... It was what I liked about them.

>> No.22720629


>Where is this bit about there being full C'tan,

Codex Necrons, C'tan Shard unit entry.

Read the paragraph starting with "Whilst it's true that many C'tan Shards are now indentured to Necron service..."

>> No.22720631

Tome of fate says that the Necrons are anathema to the warp and that Tzeentch can't foresee the actions and plans of the Necrons because they are no longer tied to the strings of fate because they got no souls!

>> No.22720632

> ruled the galaxy
That's old fluff
> war of the gods
old fluff
> Gods died
> empire crumbled
> masters of tech
old tech is better tech. Source: the whole fucking setting
> divine the future
See also: Imperial Tarot. It's not just an Eldar thing.
> interdimensional loners show up, kick ass
So Legion of the Damned, Sanguinor, Draigo...
> Arrogant
So every fucking faction ever?

So now that we've dealt with the shit you are too stupid or too ignorant to understand, we have "colonies believed to be the future of their people" and "use webway." The colonies thing is such a standard fantasy trope for shattered empires it barely bears mention. The webway thing makes sense because the danger to non-Eldar traveling the webway is the Warp, and Necrons don't give any fucks about the Warp. They also originate from the same time and have the same level of technology. So basically you're fucking stupid and your objections are pointless.

>> No.22720654

No he didn't. He was out-strategized by a 'umie in the second war. In the third he dropped a fucking rok onto that hard-point defense and moved on. Yarrick and Ghaz never actually met on the field of battle, unless I'm mistaken.

>> No.22720665

I'm pretty sure they did meet, and that Yarrick survived. Didn't beat Ghaz, but survived.

>> No.22720673

Didn't Yarrick get his hands on Ghaz's power klaw?

>> No.22720683

if im not mistaken Ghaz spared him after defeating

>> No.22720689

wasn't Ghaz's. Just another Ork's.

>> No.22720692


FFG canon is barely better than /tg/ canon, their Macragge raises no regiments for Imperial Guard for fuck's sake.

Codex: Necrons states that Daemons are the only things that can breach and rampage in Necron pocket dimensions and fancy places. Doesn't sound very anathematic.

Besides, the Emperor himself is also supposed to be "the Anathema" to daemons as are the Grey Knights. FFG no hear of redundancy.

>> No.22720695

i think its just some klaw

>> No.22720701

You never know. You could have had all the stuff they have today (like plenty of the players care one bit about the fluff, I know some players who switch armies more often than socks) and keep the old fluff. Sentient or semi-sentient lords had been in the fluff for a long time. You can have name lords, but make them either devoted C'tanists (those that truly welcomed the change and only their mad drive is left) or bitter "I sold my soul to the devil and now I play my part to the bitter end" gandpas. This way you still get characterization and also the two sides of the race. On one side they're aggressive expansionists who rage and go to war, on the other they're a race that reached for the stars and made a deal with the devil, and are now paying the price for it.

I like C'tan as a counter balance to the Chaos gods. Maybe their role could have been downplayed a bit, but it was nice that for once warp and Chaos wasn't the ultimate power in the universe.

>> No.22720711

>just played Stalingrad

Yarrick was captured and then released by Ghaz anyway, as he was a strong enemy and as such to be seen as a blessing for the orks

>> No.22720715


>> No.22720720

This. Yarrick slapped the shit out of an Ork Boss, but it wasn't Ghaz.

>> No.22720727

I don't recall hearing anywhere that they actually fought in combat against each other. There is artwork of it, but Yarrick's claw didn't come from Ghaz. And the extent of their fight in the 2nd war was Yarrick and his army defending the fuck out of Hades hive, while Ghaz burned his momentum trying to get crack the defenses (which he failed at doing. In the third war, he leveled Hades with a Rok, and from there it was pure strategy. The world-wide campaign that took place had a mega-battle at the studio where the two models were used, but I don't recall hearing that they ever made it into contact with each other, and I don't recall reading anywhere that their fight was anything more than that of two generals trying to out-maneuver or out-wit each other.

I do admit however, that this was a decade ago, so I could very well be wrong.

>> No.22720731

>implying you dont want to see the Emperork

dum 'umies
ya gits are jus' mad dat da orkz are da best

>> No.22720733

That was Grimgor and Archaon.

>> No.22720744

>Well, didn't the Laughing God trick the C'tan into consuming each other in the old fluff?

The Nightbringer was the first C'tan to consume its kin after the Deceiver convinced it that C'tan-juice was the juiciest juice of them all. The other C'tan began copying the Nightbringer, and for millions of years they warred against each other while the Old Ones cultivated more psyker races so they could fight back. At some point the Laughing God decided to get in on the fun and singled out the Outsider - every time the C'tan devoured what it thought was the Laughing God, it turned out to be another star-god. Apparently the Outsider's mother never taught it to chew properly, so fragments of the other C'tan's consciousnesses remained within it, driving the Outsider insane and sending it into its crazyball.

>> No.22720745

>FFG canon is barely better than /tg/ canon, their Macragge raises no regiments for Imperial Guard for fuck's sake.

Source? Never heard that one before.

>> No.22720748

>I like C'tan as a counter balance to the Chaos gods. Maybe their role could have been downplayed a bit, but it was nice that for once warp and Chaos wasn't the ultimate power in the universe.

>Implying it's not the Greater Good

Oh, sup, gue'las, just reminding you that we still exist.

>> No.22720775

Ghazghkull captured Yarrick on Golgotha, tortured him for a few weeks, then let him go. Apparently there's now a novel about it as well.

>> No.22720781

Aaaaaaaaand I've already forgotten

>> No.22720799

This is most likely 'newer' fluff, then. Because none of that occured back in the old 3rd edition era when the Third War for Armageddon took place.

>> No.22720801

thats fucking awesome. Why is that uncompatible with newcrons?

>> No.22720803

Poor Tau doesn't realize they're just remnants of the Necrontyr that escaped the biotransference and are being manipulated by the Eldar to their ends.

>> No.22720820

Because the C'tan didn't eat each other down to 4.

>> No.22720824

yep, you have a few million guys, its okay, go play with your friends again

>> No.22720832

>Codex Necrons: page 17, Nazarakh Dynasty.

Nothing about a lord being anything there.

>> No.22720837

>The Death of Light
Yeah, Cegorach was trolling like crazy back then. But I think I remember that there was some ambiguity about the thing; if Cegorach and the Deceiver were actually the same entity or that they were just easily confused for one another, or something like that. I might be wrong.

>> No.22720838

God Damn of the C'tan? I like that one.

>> No.22720839

Deathwatch rulebook page 53

>The worlds of Ultramar do not pay a tithe to the Imperium or provide regiments to the Imperial Guard. Instead their every effort is devoted to the service of the Ultramarines, the ultimate reward for which is the selection of a scion for service in the Chapter.

Contrast 5e SM codex and Codex: Ultramarines which say Ultramarines rule so efficiently that they voluntarily raise hundreds of regiments to the Guard.

>> No.22720844

yeah, but how is that problematic with newcrons themselves? Cant one have "they ate each other, maybe more than 4 survived, but not that many, and THEN they got sharded"

>> No.22720886

There was a lot of speculation that Cegorach and the Deceiver were the same entity, but it was never denied or confirmed by the fluff, so it was dropped.

>> No.22720896

FFG had a Necron Lord examine the Tau. He deduced that these creatures are the work of the Old One servants.

If the Tau are Necron related, he would have commented on it.

>> No.22720915

Yeah, but the Ultras still don't HAVE to raise Guard regiments, it's all done voluntarily, because they're just THAT awesome.

>> No.22720916

Post the Nightbtiner vs Khaine one, if you please

>> No.22720936

>well there's your problem

>> No.22720978

The Necron commented that he wasn't surprise to find Orks still around because they have always infested the Universe. Notice he said Universe, not Galaxy. THE UNIVERSE.

Orks confirmed to exist outside the galaxy.

>> No.22721000

Out of all the stupid things fans try to posit in 40k, this one always took the cake. Did anyone honestly believe a being who was literally the anathema of the warp would pass as a god of the warp, who hangs out with the incredibly warp sensitive eldar, inside the eldar webway, fighting Slaanesh for the souls of Solitaires and trying to unite the Eldar race? It just... fuck man. Mind blowing stupidity.

>> No.22721027


Still contradicts FFG seriously. They don't deny just tithe, but in a separate instance also raising regiments.

>> No.22721029

This has already been mentioned in old, old GW fluff. Got anything else, slowpoke?

>> No.22721041

HAHAHAHA man your fucking retarded.

>> No.22721045

How would he know ? Necrons haven't leave the galaxy either.

>> No.22721048

I think they are different entities, though the Deceiver supposedly took on a multitude of different forms and identities during the War in Heaven, and aided the Old Ones as much as it fought against them. While the Laughing God's role is limited to the Outsider story in published background, it seems almost certain that he would have impersonated more than just the C'tan the Outsider ended up eating.

Here's the Nightbringer story for those who wanted it.

>> No.22721061

So in the newcron fluff, what's the explanation for a race whose destiny was shaped by the fact that they live extremely short live never figuring out FTL. I mean sure, these days they just copy/paste Eldar webway for getting around, but before then? Fucking sleeper ships? It just doesn't make sense to me. They had all this tech, and absolutely despised how short their lives where, but somehow created an empire without ever addressing that?

>> No.22721082


>> No.22721085

>and coming soon: "Ork Warboss that could rival the emperor himself"
Happened already, also Gork & Mork. By default, if there's an opponent, Ork will at least match up evenly with it, always.

>> No.22721097

In GW fluff:
>Marine worlds don't pay tithes (neither do Forge World, etc.)
>All worlds raide PDF regiments. From these are Guard regiments drawn from.
>Ultramar PDF is good as any experienced Guard regiment and they even get sent on missions when the Marines can't make it
>Ultramarines do, from time to time, give out regiments to the Guard

>> No.22721106

For asking for a source? No, actually I'd like that as well. /tg/ has been filled with too many preposterous claims without any source lately. What kind of discussion can be had in such an environment?

>> No.22721111


What does it say about the Nazarakh dynasty then?

>> No.22721120

Space Marine may or not be created using Old One sorcery.

HEY! it wasn't confirmed. The Old fluff says a Probe was lost in the galaxy for 10K years heard only Ork sounds. That isn't really very confirmatory.

The Silent King did, and the Necron did harness the power of the universe to destroy the C'tan. So I bet they know a few things about it.

>> No.22721144

Raising regiments is a tithe, you don't have to pay, you don't have to give regiments

>> No.22721145

The 3rd edition Ork codex, while embarrassingly short on fluff, does have the Ghazghkull quote where he mentions capturing and then releasing Yarrick.

>I'm death to anyfing dat walks or crawls, where I go nothin' stands in my way. We crushed da stunties on Golgotha, an' we caught old one-eye when da speed freeks blew da humies' big tanks ta bits. I let 'im go 'cause good enemies iz 'ard ta find, an Orks need good enemies ta fight like they need meat ta eat an' grog ta drink.

>> No.22721165

They somehow got around enough to build an empire spanning a sizable portion of the galaxy, and they did it without any decent FTL drives on their ships. They might just have done it the slow way, which seems likely.

What I don't get is why they don't duct tape the tech they have now that enables FTL onto their ships.

>> No.22721171

"Just like other worlds in the Imperium, each world of Ultramar raises regiments for its own defense. Most worlds in the Imperium are obliged to provide regiments for the Imperial Guard when required, but Space Marine homeworlds are an exception. In the case of Ultramar, however, the Ultramarines rule so efficiently and are so prosperous, that they maintain several hundred regiments ready to join the Imperial Guard when needed. As a result regiments have fought all over the galaxy, often in campains alongside the Ultramarines themselves."

Ultras provide regiments for the Guard specifically, unlike other marines. FFG is crapping over Ultra fluff. This is unforgivable.

>> No.22721179


Ow, my sides... there completely gone...

>> No.22721190


FFG makes a separate mention of tithe and raising regiments, very clearly meaning that in their canon Ultras do not do either.

In no way is this compatible with GW version of the fluff.

>> No.22721197

So why, in the newcron fluff, are they now 1 of 2 major races in 40k without an endgame. I mean, the whole idea is that we're on the brink of the apocalypse, with each faction trying to deploy their endgame. Out of those, the Tau don't really have one, but that's kinda their thing. To be these bright shining lights in the darkness that will never succeed, and haven't yet seen the true horror of the galaxy.

But the newcrons? They have nothing. No more end the warp as a faction, no more hatred of the warp as a faction, no more guidance of the c'tan as a faction. What is their endgame? To just set up more kingdoms? I guess there's the Silent King, but he just wants to give them back their squishy bodies because he feels guilty.

How do newcrons fit into 40k? I just can't see it. They aren't grimdark except for that time the Silent King gambled away their bodies, but then they just killed their gods and became more powerful. And they don't have any place in the end of the universe. I like that they got all this new fluff, but where's it going? What's the point?

>> No.22721203

The WAAAGH!bringer?

>> No.22721216


GW wanted more neutral factions.

>> No.22721220

If the Necrontyr pulled it off, then the Tau got a shot too. Both of them have shitty FTL.

>> No.22721227

I think you're looking at this from a wrong angle. They don't HAVE to raise regiments for the IG, but they obviously have some for self-defence.
Now, since they can afford it, they CHOOSE to give some of their regiments to the Imperium, but that's not raising regiments for the IG or paying a tithe.

>> No.22721230


Necrons have their endgame.

Unite the tombworlds, crush the established powers of the galaxy, rule it forever. There's just many separate dynasties trying to do this and everyone wants to lead, so that has to be settled first.

>> No.22721246

Newcrons want to RULE TEH GALAXY and (in some cases) return to organic bodies.

>> No.22721254


It would not be mentioned in the context of excemption from titles if they were referring to PDF, that's a contrived explanation to make FFG and GW fluff fit (it still wouldn't since FFG denies regiment raising to Guard, period).

>> No.22721271

this is basicly how anyone uses mary sue, which is retarded, no nurgle isnt a fucking mary sue, nor are tau, nor is basicly anything else in 40k. people are just pissed that something diffrent is happening and there autism cant handle it

>> No.22721280

So their endgame is just a simple military campaign like they've already been doing? Against chaos drawing the eye of terror to Terra, against the Emperor being reborn and the primarchs returning, against the Eldar creating the Ynead, against the orks being united under one banner, against the tyranids making a concerted push into the galaxy, and against whatever else I'm forgetting?

No. No that doesn't make sense, and it doesn't fit into the universe of 40K. It's just ridiculous. Apparently no one else in 40K has ever tried "just attack them and take their planets"?

>> No.22721285

Ok, I guess technically the silent king had leave the galaxy. I was more thinking getting to another galaxy.

>> No.22721294

We use quantum mechanics for just about everything and we don't know shit about them.

>FFG is crapping over Ultra fluff. This is unforgivable.

How? Why? What? What? How?

GW fluff says Ultras don't have to provide Guard regiments, but they do anyway, FFG fluff says Ultras don't have to provide Guard regiments, but they do anyway.

That whole bits sounds almost copied from GW fluff, it's so familiar.

>> No.22721295

You keep using this word, but I do not think you understand what it means...

>> No.22721301

>against the orks being united under one banner

Newcrons are the same. We don't know how many Tomb Worlds there really are.

>> No.22721308


Only he is worthy to rule.

>> No.22721309

>what he'll write next
resignation letter

>> No.22721322

No, but that's my point. It makes no damn sense. They were willing to literally sell their souls to ancient star gods because they hated how short lived they were. But none of them, at any point in the height of their reign, or now with their modern tech EVER fucking built FTL. That's.... infuriatingly stupid. And why? They could have kept their old FTL. What would it have changed? It doesn't fit any thematic or plot points. Was it "just because we can change stuff"?

>> No.22721346

Every Newcron wants something different. Theyre basically like your crazy, crotchety old uncles who never agree with each other and are always up to something ridiculous and I love it.

>> No.22721352


They have faster than light, it just happens that light isn't that fast to begin with.

>> No.22721354


FFG fluff says Ultras don't raise regiments to Guard. What are you smoking?

Point one instance in FFG fluff where it says Ultramar provides regiments for Guard. There is one saying they do not, on page 53 of DW rulebook.

>> No.22721359

The Necrons have tech for FTL or something just as good, but they don't put it on their ships, for some reason.

>> No.22721378


They do put it on their ships.

The problem is it still takes decades to travel between solar systems.

>> No.22721385

>Apparently no one else in 40K has ever tried "just attack them and take their planets"?
But you just list 2 others races who have the same ending : orks and imperials uniting behind a big boss / the emperor to "simple" military campaign just like necron uniting behind a king to do the same.

>> No.22721391

...weeeeeelll some SM chapters are pretty mary sue as a whole and sometimes certain space marines individuals can be mary sue. I don't believe that an ENTIRE faction can be called mary sue but certain fractions do have their moments. Hell, even the IG has a few Mary sues, which is considered a feat on its own level considering how expendable they are.

>> No.22721394


It does work for them because there are many millions of tomb worlds. The codex says that time is running out on younger races and if the Tomb Worlds can't be prevented from uniting Necrons win.

Their endgame is basically more plausible than "united Orks" which no one seems to have trouble with though they are far less organized and advanced. Their endgame is the one you should be whining about.

>> No.22721410


Yarrick fought Ghaz and Ghaz raped his anus. Ghaz then let him live on the premise that its fun to have a rival and then fucked off the planet entirely.

>> No.22721429

The Orks will organize when a big enough threat presents itself to justify it.

>> No.22721441

>Without massive retcons
Because giving them free will and having them overthrow the C'tan aren't retcons.
>Without sacrificing the feel of the army
Are you shitting me? He took Skynet and turned it into yet another boring fucking medieval Europe analogy.

>You had an army of all silent Necrons serving the Nightbringer and focused on exterminating all life? Great, you can still have that.

If they've been killed so many times they've become retarded.

>Oh, you don't like my writing, and prefer the flavor of the Necrons from before I wrote the codex? That's cool, just fluff them as being brain dead because they suck at their jobs so much.

Fuck off.

>> No.22721442

How aren't they grimdark ?
Why should they ?
Only /tg/ really care about grimderp and limit 40k to it.

>> No.22721444

See with orks though, it fits into their whole fluff. When they get together they make bigger and bigger things happen with their mind. They have some of the biggest baddest warp gods backing them. They get stronger and tougher with each battle. Throw in the speed freak guy's teleporting from planet to planet, and you've got extrapolation of ork strengths and themes.

Hell, someone even pointed out that the ork endgame is probably the "there is only war" of 40k. They've already won in a sense.

But necrons? Where's the theme? Where's the point? Are we really going to go with "oh they just secretly out number everyone, and they're the best, so they can just run a standard military campaign against the galaxy and win"? No. No that's just sad. Especially when they at one time did have a point, and a theme. I don't think we need to worship at the seat of oldcron fluff, but just throwing out the place they played in 40k and not replacing it in any way is ridiculous.

>> No.22721487

The orks have Gork and Mork, as well as the WAAAGH field. Their theme is that they are allowed to get away with stupid shit because they think they should. That fits, and that works. And it's been around for a while.

Is it really so wrong to ask for more from the Necrons? To ask for more than just copying other factions?

>> No.22721500

The ork's endgame is a universe in eternal never-ending turmoil, with the clock stuck at 11:59pm. Their end-game is a giant, never-ending clusterfuck of a fight across the whole galaxy.

>> No.22721521


It doesn't fit and is unlikely.

Orks are the secondary bad guys to Chaos, Tyranids and Necrons. They provided no obstacle for the dominion of Necrons (ended by Eldar in new fluff) or Eldar (fucked by Chaos) or humans (fucked by Chaos...twice also Men of Iron).

Nah, the only time Orks are a serious galaxywide threat is when real players are in shambles or sleeping, or absent. That happened once, and even then Space Marines stopped the Orks' galaxywide rampage.

>> No.22721537

A resurrected Emperor and returned Primarchs would actually be doing interesting stuff.

Why shouldn't I want more from Necron fluff than "some guy will eventually get them together, and they'll do stuff, and then they'll win" with nothing more interesting than that? I mean, I'm not that big on the old fluff, but at least trying to kill the warp itself was an over-the-top 40k sort of thing that I could get behind. This... this is just so plain. Boring.

>> No.22721540

i almost never use autism, firstly, also i know perfectly well that one of the symptoms is an inability to accept anything that isnt routine, unable to accept drastic change. thats why they are good with code, it does what it does without exception.

>> No.22721542


So because your lord can talk everything is ruined?

Most lords see the other races as vermin anyway and would have no reason to talk to them. The Newcron codex doesn't force your Lord to have a monologue as he faces off the enemy commander, he can still be the silent type.

>> No.22721556

>And it's been around for a while.
No it hasn't. The 'make-believe' techn of the orks is nothing more than an in-universe theory by a crack-pot biologist. It's exactly that, it's a theory. Ork Waaagh-energy is more of a psychic duct-tape, than it is a free-pass to get away with reality-breaking nonsense. They can't fire imaginary bullets from a lead pipe through power of imagination, but they can continue to reliably use an otherwise unreliable gun that would jam frequently for anything other than an Ork.

>> No.22721562


The pylons are still there as are Necrons' anti-daemon defence fields, warding off the warp is still a possibility included in their big win scenario.

>> No.22721574

That's actually exactly what I was referring to. Not the breaking of reality, but the ability to do that which they shouldn't reasonably be able to.

>> No.22721579

the problem with the orks is that they cant be stopped really. there will always be orks, even when everything else dies. so in the end it will be chaos and orks left flapping around in the universe

>> No.22721588

>Wake up
>Get on /tg/
>See this thread
Only on the internet will you find people defending the oldcrons.

>> No.22721601

I agree, their theme used to be undead soldiers that can truly never die; soulless beings forced to fight and commit galactical genocide, even to the bacterial level.I mean sure, the newcrons have more characters and background, but the entire theme just seemed to of died when they trapped the star-gods into pokeballs and gained individuality(sort of).

They are sort of grimdark, but not as they used to be.

>> No.22721602

>Kaldor Drago
Every time I se this, I think it's people purposely misspelling "Khal Drogo"

>> No.22721612



Basically the Orks are a less advanced version of the Jokaero.

They can't build a teleporter from a log with their bare hands, but with some scrap and a large enough WAAAGH they can.

>> No.22721643

Why don't the Necrons use that tech to travel safely through the Warp? They obviously build more reliable tech than standard Imperial Geller Field emitters, and it'd give them a lot more reach.

>> No.22721647

>Not the breaking of reality, but the ability to do that which they shouldn't reasonably be able to.

It's very minor, and doesn't manifest anything major until a Wyrdboy/Warphead is present with enough Orks backing him. Then he can do unreasonable shit like tearing open holes to the Warp so Gork or Mork can crush the enemy's army. Otherwise, the most the-waaagh is capable of is keeping jury-rigged technology running fine, and giving +1 horsepower to a vehicle painted red.

>> No.22721653

Oh yeah, the pylons are still there. But they don't serve any purpose other than another defensive system. The whole point was that the C'Tan hated that they couldn't have control over the warp. So they developed an endgame that would have killed the warp, and incidentally impact almost all the other race's endgames.

But the C'Tan are now dead/captured/on the run. The Necrons don't care much about the warp. There are no pariahs. From everything I can see, they don't give much of a shit about the pylons anymore.

Look, here's what I'm trying to say: one of the greatest parts of the newcron codex is giving the race options. Different ways of playing and developing themselves. But why was that done at the cost of racial identity, endgame, and fitting into old fluff? I mean, 40k is pretty shit about keeping fluff straight, but I for the life of me can't figure out why their FTL was removed and replaced with a worse version of the Eldar's FTL.

>> No.22721663

Khal Drogo is just badass enough to do it(plus he's more of a tragic hero than a grim-dark one). that and the little fucking i between the a and the g is sometimes easy to miss. Fuck that i.

>> No.22721670

>stop liking what I don't like! I'm gonna use the laughing-girls pic to better make you feel bad!

>> No.22721673

Newcrons lost everything that made them unique, and that is apparently ok.
Only Tau and Tyranids remains now.

>> No.22721679


The pylons cause a surge through the warp.
Using it when travelling would likely reduce their destination to dust before they got there.

>> No.22721689

Absolutely. That's why I was talking about it in the context of another Ghazkull, or Arch Arsonist type warlord, or Wazdakka finishing his tech to drive across the universe.

>> No.22721692

>but with some scrap and a large enough WAAAGH they can.

No, with enough scrap material a Mek can. And it will work, even without Waaagh. Though it will be anything except safe.

>> No.22721710


>but I for the life of me can't figure out why their FTL was removed and replaced with a worse version of the Eldar's FTL.

It's likely that GW wanted to limit the Warhammer universe to one kind of FTL-tech.

If the Necrons can master warp-free FTL then why can't other races?

>> No.22721725

I guess that where different tastes are different.
You like heroic bullshit, I like political bullshit.
I don't give a shit about the mighty X doing Y with awesome awesomeness. In fact I don't give a shit about "ending" because I don't want anything to end, I want things to "shift".
I found the return of primarchs meh if it's just for some kind of ragnarok, it could interest me if it's about how the imperium and their former legion react to their return and how do they react to them. That kind of things.

>> No.22721731

Everything I Say Is Right: The Thread.

Though I love these threads, given how subjective 40k can be, they're always good for a laugh.

>> No.22721736


Ork technology becomes more advanced the bigger their fight is though.

Hence why you only see tellyportas during the battle for Armageddon and other such fights.

>> No.22721744

They don't have navigators and their computers are not as advanced as the Tau.

>> No.22721758

>shitty rules will be gone in an edition or two

That is very, very optimistic of you.

>> No.22721765

Well there's only one thing to do now... find out how GW is going to rape their fluff! I'll go first:

-Tau no longer fights for the Greater Good, they now fight for The Greater BADS! Which means they are going to be xenophobic who changes their hinduistic communism to a Glorified Fascist regime, which limits all form of individualism and materialism for The Greater Bads!

Tyranids are going from hungry-hungry hippos to crazy psychotic sentient life who wishes to destroy all xenos in their path for galactic conquest using biological warfare.

>> No.22721768


>their computers are not as advanced as the Tau.

Their computer systems are advanced enough to run an entire Necron dynasty.

Look up the dynasty of the Severed in the Necron codex.
Their computer systems are basically self-aware.

>> No.22721793

That could be it. It just makes me sad though. For better or worse, one of the few things 40k has left is ridiculous over the top bullshit. Strapping black holes to gift boxes, using crazy teleporter tech to drive across the universe planet by planet, giant flying cathedrals, using a massive metal disintegration fist as a melee weapon and calling it a "power fist", and so on.

The necrons have some of the craziest tech, and should be awesome at being over the top. Try and kill the warp? Intertia-less drives that jet you across the cosmos? Hilarious! Awesome! But that feeling seems to have been taken from the newcrons. They have cool tech, but in my mind they're missing that racial identity, that 40k splash of the ridiculous. I don't give two whits about oldcron vs newcron. I just want newcrons to be the best they can be.

>> No.22721807

>Tyranids are going from hungry-hungry hippos to crazy psychotic sentient life who wishes to destroy all xenos in their path for galactic conquest using biological warfare.

This is RT era nids to a T.

ward brought back the jokaero, and is rumoured to write 6e nids...

>> No.22721818


They can still teleport between planets, hide entire armies in pocket-dimensions and synthesize pariah machines to stave off the warp.

>> No.22721837

>Ork technology becomes more advanced the bigger their fight is though.

So the waaagh! is more like distributed processing, where the Meks, Doks, Bosses, and Weirdboys are tapping into the unused brainpower of nearby Orks? I kind of like that idea.

>> No.22721840

>implying the Tau haven't been based on Japanese Nationalism (read; Fascism) since day one.
It's not a subtle reference.

>> No.22721848

No, tellyportas have been around for quite awhile The build up for the Third War for Armageddon is when you first see them, but they were included even in Gothic (essentially represented by increasing the base-size of the ship, allowing it to board other vehicles easier). Tellyportas, like a lot of Ork stuff, were purposely left out during the 4e codex creation because of the shift towards "less = more" (removing even the clans), and also because GW has the annoying habit of purposely not giving the Orks much more than a cursory glance during any post-2nd revisit. Like the Flakkwagon, Pulsa-Rokkit, Soopa-Kannon, and Ork tanks, the primary reason the Tellyportas only appear in Apoc is because the Ork codex was written by an Eldar-loving git and a lead-designer who didn't want to do very much for them.

>> No.22721851

>Everything I Say Is Right: The Thread.
Eh, sounds more like this to me

>> No.22721856

So having something unique is having little to no fluff ?

>> No.22721866


Basically, yeah.

Fighting feeds the Waagh, leading to bigger Warbosses and smarter meks.

>> No.22721885

Except it's not like that at all. He's just basing the fact that stuff appearing only in Apoc is somehow justified by his own personal theory. The same theory could be applied to any given faction in the game.

>> No.22721891

Japs are Xenophobic. The Tau aren't Xenophobic.

The Tau remind me of the English Empire carrying on the white man's burden by spreading western enlightenment to the savages.

>> No.22721899

>Tau will become glorified facism
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_East_Asia_Co-Prosperity_Sphere
There has not been a single day in the Tau's life where a significant portion of their fluff wasn't a less than subtle reference to Imperial Japan's Manifest Destiny/

>> No.22721909


It was mentioned many years before apocalypse though.

In the Armageddon campaign with the articles about Orkimedes.
Haven't read them in ages so I'll see what I can dig up.

>> No.22721919

*sigh*, no it doesn't. Fighting just leads to bigger orks. What a mek builds is limited only by his imagination, or what inspires him.

>> No.22721927


Where did I mention apocalypse?
This is from way back in 2nd and early 3rd edition.

Might be a mention in the 4th edition codex but I'm not sure.

>> No.22721938

They seemed to be more based on Asian culture all around from the Japanese imperialism, Chinese communistic regime and even to the Hindu Casting system

>> No.22721951

Actually, this has always been my contention when people get pissy about how 40k never advances because "that's what stories do". Well, 40k isn't a story. The whole theme is that Cold War "30 seconds to midnight". Everything is on the brink of ragnarok, everyone is vainly struggling to bring out their biggest baddest guns. But whether they will or not isn't up to GW. It's up to the players. If there is any advancement of the setting, it's up to the players to play it out.

Things like the primarchs returning, the eye of terror reaching terra, those are all plot hooks. Ways for the players to expand the universe, and play out that political bullshit you mention. But the necrons? They don't have that. They don't have an endgame, or those big plot hooks. They don't have an interesting place in the galaxy, and nothing to strive for beyond making the same old kingdoms they use to.

>> No.22721970

Orkimedes' fluff literally amounts to "some mysterious Ork mek nobody has seen, who is apprently really freaking skilled at inventing stuff and always has been. Ghaz recruited him after seeing his tellyporta tech." That's essentially it. Nowhere does it state that their technology level increases with the size of the fighting, and that that somehow is the reason why they get certain things in Apoc when in smaller games they don't.

>> No.22721972

> Imperial titan only appear in Apoc because they are powered by imperial faith
> Chaos titan only appear in Apoc because they are powered by blood and .... hum, bad example.

>> No.22722001

Which is why that same theory doesn't work as an explanation for why something only shows up in Apoc.

>> No.22722009

I think not only his full name properly written should be banned on /tg/, but everything concerning this vile person should be concerned heresy immiedately adn taken care of with extreme prejudice.

>words Mat Ward pop up anywhere within 500m from a Warhammer player or within one-two clicks on the interwebz

>> No.22722014


That's his fluff from the Armageddon book.

He featured more heavily in the campaign briefing in White Dwarf though.

>> No.22722019

>Japs are Xenophobic. The Tau aren't Xenophobic.
You're basing this off of.. what, exactly? Imperial Japan did quite a lot of incorporating other races into their fold.

Sure, they treated them as slaves and killed the ones who resisted.. but that's not all that different from what the Tau do.

Definitely. But the similarities to Japanese Imperialists stand out the most, in my opinion.

>> No.22722036

Tau may not be xenophobic as an empire, but individuals can be. Look at their reactions when they see/hear about how the kroot behave.

>> No.22722037

> They don't have that. They don't have an endgame,
They didn't really have that before either. They were all still waking up. Sure their goal with to wipe out all life, but the way it was portrayed, everyone else's various endgame scenarios would have played out before that came to pass.

>> No.22722043

Then you'd best start busting out the citations. Because Ork tech has never been described as suddenly improving based upon the scale of the fight, due to Waaagh-Energy or any other mystical reasons. Ork tech, created by Meks, has always been limited only by the imagination and inspiration of the mekboy himself, regardless of Waaagh or scale of battle involved.

>> No.22722060


Not that guy but that's how it's explained in Dawn of War.

The bigger your Waaagh is the higher your tech gets.

Not sure how that correlates to fluff however.

>> No.22722094

Not really. Even during the campaign briefings he never amounted to anything beyond being some shadowy Mek that is responsible for some previously unseen advancements in tellyporta tech. Orkimedes has never been anything but mysterious background figure. Hell irrc it's even mentioned he may not even be an Ork.

>> No.22722109

The "exterminate all life" was more part of their racial identity. Their endgame was killing the warp itself. This would have messed with the resurrection of the emperor, anything chaos does ever, the ynead initiative, and I'd guess the ork WAAAGH field and tyranid hive mind. A pretty big deal all around, and an excellent addition to the entire coming Ragnarok, helping make it anyone's game.

>> No.22722112


"A WAAAGH! usually starts small, perhaps even as small as a single Ork, who is visited by the Orkoid deities Gork and Mork with dreams of great carnage. He will impart this vision to others of his kind through repeated blows to the head, or, if he is of a more intellectual bent, he will build a great Ork war machine like a Gargant that is the very image of his savage Gods. Rumours of the coming WAAAGH! will spread through the local Orkoid society and the Orks begin to unite. New warbands join the growing throng with every passing day. An Ork Warboss will fight his way to the top of the hierarchy of this growing Greenskin horde and earn the status of a Warlord, adding the armies of those clanz he conquers to his own horde. As news of his new position spreads, the trickle of Ork reinforcements will grow into a green flood. Ork Meks will begin to collaborate on more and more outlandish projects, building ever larger war machines and weapons for the WAAAGH! Smoke-belching mobile fortresses and titanic war engines are cobbled together out of nothing more than heaps of scrap metal and the always heavy-handed enthusiasm of the Greenskins, another side-effect of the growing gestalt psychic energy of a WAAAGH!"

Codex Orks (2nd ed)

>> No.22722137

Actually I make personal fluff after midnight when time passed and ... nothing that special happened while mystical prophecies remains mystical. (though I also thought about a "midnight time" with tyranid eating everything, basically the story of "how each places, organisations and characters end")

About necrons, I never really like them in fact. Before they where pure antagonists, like tyranids. Now they can still be I guess, but they are less "pure" antagonists.
If I had to create fluff with them, I guess I would use a "we want our flesh back" faction or use the pylon plot device.

>> No.22722144

Natural reaction for them, but they did learn to accept and tolerate it.

Their reputation as xenophobes and isolationists. It might not be accurate seeing what you said.

>but that's not all that different from what the Tau do.

Except that Tau codex says Kroot and Vespids are treated as same as the Tau citizens. The subjected races don't seem like slaves to me.

>> No.22722152

Does "Eating people is gross, they should stop doing that" really qualify as xenophobia?

>> No.22722157

>but that's how it's explained in Dawn of War.
yeah, because that's a reliable source of information...

>> No.22722162

They almost did to the chinese what nazis did to the jews...

>> No.22722173


Hence my caveat at the end.

But perhaps you missed that.

>> No.22722189

>Their endgame was killing the warp itself.
Exactly, and by the time they woke up in the numbers required to do this, and got a plan underway, everything else would have been over and done with anyway.
The fact that they're waking up in the 900s of M41 kind of makes them late for the show, the Tyranids are good for timing because they'll supposedly be arriving full force; while, as far as well know, the Tomb Worlds will keeping waking up piecemeal.

>> No.22722192

Oh...forget to add something. The Tau who visited Pech developed deep affection for the Kroot and genuinely want to help them out.

This is present in the Old Tau Codex. The only racist Tau I can think of is Farsight, he doesn't want to help anyone or get help from anyone.

>> No.22722200

No, I didn't.

>> No.22722202

The thing is, weirdly, I think the Tau would be cool with it if the Kroot really explained their reasons for it. After all, the point of eating their enemies is to find the material which most benefits the collective [and by extension, the Greater Good]. It's a sort of communal philosophy that the Tau might be able to get behind.

But then, I love the Kroot. And the Mortifactors.

>> No.22722211

It's just bigger investment in war production, nothing magical here.

>> No.22722215

>all fluff in the setting is legends, myths, second hand sources, and reports that daemons may have fucked with in the warp.
>implying there is any reliable fluff in 40k.

>> No.22722226


The Necron codex mentioned that all Necrons were supposed to wake up at around the end of M41.

So while there may be some stragglers that woke up before and will wake up later, most of them will awake now.

>> No.22722248

I assume you mean the old one said that too. I was confused for a moment because the new one says that as well.

>> No.22722255


>It's just bigger investment in war production, nothing magical here.

Which is in no way contrary to my original claim:

>Basically the Orks are a less advanced version of the Jokaero.
>They can't build a teleporter from a log with their bare hands, but with some scrap and a large enough WAAAGH they can.

>> No.22722259

I'm not sure the kroot themselves understand it in a way they could explain it to the tau without the tau thinking it's some spirit mysticism, but I may be wrong.

>> No.22722269


Gah, disregard my post.

I didn't read your post fully, thought you were talking about the new codex.

>> No.22722274

Probably not, only shapers seem to know what they're doing, and as the Kroot sub-species can show, even they can screw up

>> No.22722279

>I think the Tau would be cool with it if the Kroot really explained their reasons for it

The Tau figured out how the Kroot race works and they find it very useful but still icky. They also know the Kroot are being sneaky about the pact between them, but the Tau don't care about it as long as they help out the Empire.

Source in the Old Tau Codex.

>> No.22722314

Which is a good thing, because I wasn't trying to contradict you.

>> No.22722327


Seeing as the quote was posted as support for my original claim you kind of were.

>> No.22722389

>I-I was only pretending to be retarded!

>> No.22722436

Oldcrons were just robot nids.
Unstoppable mindless alien menace that can't be reasoned with and only wishes to snuff out your existence

Least they have some character now.

>> No.22722511

Actually, it could.

>> No.22722520



>> No.22722631

Nigger, you really, really have no idea how deep in shit the galaxy will be once the Necrons fully awaken.

All those stories about how armies have to resort to suicidal or phyrric methods to defeat the Necrons? What they defeated were the equivalent of a mere regiment or scouting party.

>> No.22722789

So you're contending that the Necrons are just so much better than everyone, and that ohemgee they're so super cool and awesome, and can't be defeated, and that they're so awesome that lesser mortals have to kill themselves in the presence of the mighty necrons? That's really what you're going with? Or better yet, do you even have something besides your own personal headcanon to back that up? That the Necrons are just plain better in every way than everyone else ever? Because if so, wow, you've just created a better argument against newcron fluff than anyone in this entire thread.

>> No.22722854

Necrons are not united. Each Dynasty wants to rule the galaxy.

If they woke up, we will get Orks V2. They will fight each other all over the place.

>> No.22722902

>So you're contending that the Necrons are just so much better than everyone, and that ohemgee they're so super cool and awesome, and can't be defeated
This was the implication in the oldfluff as well, they just weren't all awakre yet.

>> No.22722907

That's not the point, though. What made the oldcrons cool was that they were entirely single-minded and unified to the point where you could make a case that they might not have even known what they were doing. Having them be fractured and individually ambitious shatters that. The whole "dynasty" thing, giving them character even, implies that they have some individual free will. What I liked about the oldcrons was that they didn't have free will specifically. That they were an entire race of beings turned into a mechanism to accomplish the most terrible purpose imaginable - the destruction of all higher forms of life to feed hungry, terrible gods more ancient than even the gods of the warp - and they were only barely aware enough to comprehend it.

It's like taking the Borg or something and turning them into a bunch of little meddling factions. Having them fractured just makes them that much less scary. If they're capable of fighting among themselves, they're capable of fucking up when you're fighting against them.

>> No.22722959

The Borg are far better than the oldcrons were, maybe they should have turned the necrons into NotBorg

>> No.22722969

>Ork Warboss that could rival the emperor himself

Orks are usually the comic relief of the franchise, but I imagine the Inquisition must be shitting its collective pants at the thought of Ghazkull or somebody actually managing to unite enough Orks to launch an equivalent of the Great Crusade, and not just due to the sheer number of troops he'd be marshaling, but because he'd be a fucking monstrosity fed by the admiration and loyality of all his orks, capable of unmaking or making things trough psychich power.

Just look at what humans, being pretty much the bottom of the barrel as a species managed to create with the Emprah leading them, now Imagine what a species made specifically for war could do with the same kind of leader.

>> No.22723142

Actually, despite popular belief, the greatest ork that could rival the emperor himself is actually not that big. He merely became the exemplary of prettiness for the ork world and has mastered the level of sophistication.

>> No.22723237

If GW had to rip off someone when creating and rebooting the Necrons, then why, why, did they have to rip themselves? If they were gonna rip off something when giving the Necrons personality I'm sure they could have done better than Tomb Kings and Eldar. Like, why couldn't they rip off Therians and safeguard?

>> No.22723332


Except if an Overlord kills another overlord he gets power over their army.

And no regular Necron can ever aspire to be something greater than he is.

>> No.22723411

Newcrons are basically Tomb Kings, Eldar, and Orkz smashed together.

I personally love it but I know at least one person irl who doesn't
Though he recently told me that the newcrons were starting to grow on him.

>> No.22723419

>a rejection of the grimdarkness of the setting
Well, Draigo is my new favourite character.

>> No.22723461

Good, oldcrons were boring as fuck. Hurr durr we don't have character, hurr durr we will win no matter what.

>> No.22723537

One thing I do like is how he had the Sisters basically fuck up the entire Imperium (including ass raping countless marine chapters) and they only reason they stopped was because the Emperor said to.
I'd like to think that the chaos gods are just fucking with Draigo and waiting for him to either fuck up or until they get bored and go "lol nope" on him.

>> No.22723541


I love the fact that I can give my Overlord a personality.

Wont make him as flamboyant and unsubtle as GW's characters, but at least he's not Generic Lord #113842314.

>> No.22723565

So Tyranids are boring too?

Because the Nids have no character and will win no matter what.

>> No.22723575


>I'd like to think that the chaos gods are just fucking with Draigo and waiting for him to either fuck up or until they get bored and go "lol nope" on him.

People who complain about him haven't read the Realms of Chaos books.

He'd fit right at home in there, and it's just the thing the chaos gods would do.

>> No.22723599


Necrons were berong because they were just a metal copy of the Tyranids.

Tyranids aren't boring because while they lack character they're the only faction that does.

>> No.22723617




Time to go to bed methinks.

>> No.22723621

except for the necrons right? I don't think tyranids can go Omnomnom on them.

>> No.22723626

You make no sense at all. If you thought Oldcrons are boring then you would think Tyranids are also boring.

>> No.22723679

The Tyranids will wreck countless Necron worlds and leave no organic life for the Necrons to use in their apotheosis which will doom the Necrons into a fate worse than dea...just very bad fate.

>> No.22723726

>The C’tan feasted upon their entire race, leaving behind only ghostly echoes of the Necrontyr. Only a few of the very strongest retained their intellect and even they were shadows of their former selves.

>> No.22723739

Wait? For the Oldcrons or newcrons? Because that sounds like a great thing for the Oldcrons, I have no idea for the newcrons.

>> No.22723779


Only some Necrons want apotheosis though.

>> No.22723802

For the Newcrons.

It's also bad for the Oldcrons because if the Nids eat everything, nothing will remain for the C'tan to eat. Nothing that's delicious.

>> No.22723874

Nope. The Codex says that all the Necrons from the highest lord to the lowest warrior wants to return to flesh.

It's the only thing that will save the Necron from succumbing to madness and lose what little remains of themselves.

>> No.22723987


Got a page number?

Page 29 mentions that this is the overriding goal of the Zantragora Dynasty, but doesn't say it's the goal of the entire Necron race.

>> No.22723994

>necrons making use of the webway to travel
can i have specific source on this?

>> No.22724054



>> No.22724060

Codex: Necrons 5th edition.

>> No.22724415

I don't necessarily know that that isn't just supposed to be the SPESS MUHREENS as a whole really. Draigo IS exceptionally mary sue, but he's neither the first nor the last I think.
The Space Marines kinda do get billed as angels half the time, even if they are vampire angels.

I'd be willing to bet you hate the space marines very generally, and fairly understandably.

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