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22548220 No.22548220 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Hi /tg/, I am a new chaos space marine player and I wanted to ask if anyone can give me some pointers on a list I played with, and maybe give me some pointers on how to properly play. This list is 1750 points, and I plan to make future purchases, but I am not sure what to get to help bolster my army.

HQ: Typhus

Elites: Khone Beserkers- 9 w/ VotLW, ccw's
Khorne Champion w/ccw, Combi-melta(Rhino)

Troops:3x10 squads of plague marines, one squad has 2 meltas, while the other 2 have 2 plasma guns each.
All the Aspiring Champs have plasma pistols and P.Fists.
Heavy Support: Defiler w/ TL Lascannon, Power Scourge, Warpflame Gargoyles, Dirge Caster

Also, while playing my first few games last night with some friends, who all played Grey Knights, Ultramarines, and Blood angels, it seemed that they had some pretty crazy faction specific rules in comparison to mine. Their HQ's, Draigo, Mephiston, and Marcus Calgar all seemed to be pretty threatening forces, and they took advantage of my Champion of Chaos rule and always Challenged Typhus, and he would proceed to die quite easily to all three, especially Draigo. Is there anything I can do to help counter this?

>> No.22548253

I forgot to mention that all 3 Plague marine squads have rhinos as well

>> No.22548331

>Khorne Champion w/ccw, Combi-melta

New gui
Waht r u doing
New gui

>> No.22548563

Playing against my friend with ultramarines, that single use melta was one of my few saving graces of dealing with his land raider.

>> No.22548607

How in the world is draigo killing typhus with his AP3 sword?

Also yeah. Combi melta on khorne guy. Stop it. He gets less attacks. Why would you ever want that. If you want him to kill tanks give him a power fist.

I'd stick typhus with a ton of zombie cultists or some nurgle spawn if I was you. cultists are a nice tarpit and give him a potential for some rerolls in a challenge. The spawn you can unleash typhus' destroyer hive without worry

>> No.22548613

Berserkers. They berserk, aka kill shit by bashing in brains. Leave the shooty to the Plague Marines and give the killy choppy champ melta bombs.

>> No.22548634

Yeah or this. Meltabombs are great and you can continue to use them more than once. Unlike a combi melta. And meltabombs won't give you less attacks in melee. Which is bad.

>> No.22548666

my GK friend told me that his "titan sword" gives him a buff that is str 10 ap 1 or something like that if his enemy is a psycher.

>> No.22548688

first things first

plague marines- Very good. However, they don't need ten men to function. The squad is tough enough that they can get away with lower numbers. the magic number for plague marines is 7.

On Typhus- Not a fan. His best perk is that he can make fearless fodder out of cultists. I know he looks great on paper, but this is seriously the best thing he does and you're not using it.

You should reconsider what makes him good, what you like about him, and what you're paying for. Special characters are a trap that a lot of new players fall into, they think that because they names and special abilities, that they're automatically better.
This isn't always the case. Some special characters are incredibly strong, but most special characters are just mediocre, overpriced, or have one good ability. You should consider what your vanilla HQs can or can't do, and not run straight to the guy with the mean sounding name.

also, the fact that Typhus is losing fights to other characters that you have mentioned leads me to 2 conclusions.

1- you don't know how challenges work.
2- you and your friends aren't playing the game correctly.

>> No.22548714

The correct response is to ask to see the actual rule.

>> No.22548738

S10, yes, AP1, no.

>> No.22548917

>on challenges...

The challenging player does not pick a foe when they issue a challenge. They only pick the model that issues it. The challenged player then assigns a model to answer the challenge.

Your opponent cannot say, "I challenge Typhus!" That's not how it works. He can only say, "I issue a challenge!"

You have the authority to decide who accepts. You can feed him a squad champion so that Typhus can continue to turn marines into fertilizer for a turn.

>On characters that Typhus should be killing.

Someone is fucking you. Your friends are either dicks or they don't know their own rules.

Typhus should be kicking the shit out of both Mephiston and Draigo. The only character you mentioned that should give him a run for his money is Calgar.

Draigo is AP3. All day, every day, even when he is S10 vs psykers and demons. There is no rule that grants him AP1. Your opponent is making that up.
Typhus should kill draigo almost every fight, as the sword will bounce off his 2+ armor save. If Typhus fails a save, he will die, however he is far more likely to slowly chop Draigo down with his pile of demon weapon attacks every turn.

Mephiston is also grist for the mill... He's also AP3. His attacks bounce off of Typhus's 2+, and Typhus should be able to handle him by drowning him in attacks as well.

>> No.22549041

The Titansword is a master-crafted force weapon with the daemonbane rule (a GK rule that lets then insta-kill daemons by forcing extra rolls). Against psykers and daemons it strikes at S10.

HOWEVER, being an "unusual force weapon" (ie, a force weapon with extra rules) it automaticaly has AP3.

This guy:
...is right. When a rule comes into question it is best to look it up. This isn't becuase someone might be trying to cheat you, but because 40k has a shitton of rules and it is easy to get them mixed up or just plain wrong. Always remember to print out the FAQs and have them on hand with your codex and rulebook (and check for updates somewhat regularly).

Also, study your codex and the rulebook. Try coming up with a simple scenario and look up the rules that pertain to it.
Adding marked tabs to your rulebook makes this go a lot faster.

>> No.22549072



Mephiston doesn't even have an invulnerable save. Mephiston strikes first, but if Typhus makes his saves, he can strike back, +d6 attacks, 2s to wound, AP2, force weapon goes off, Mephiston is dead. Hardly even breaking a sweat to do that.

>> No.22549146

on the matter of your army list,

you should be thinking very hard about how much you're paying for that defiler. its a huge chunk of points. I'll give you a hint- the twin las isn't worth it. it should be a power fist.
The power scourge is also pretty useless, I'll explain both.

The defiler has a battlecannon, it is its signature weapon. The defiler has 2 purposes- Scuttle forward, fire gun, punch people.
When you fire a battlecannon, it means you cant fire template weapons, and all other guns need 6s to hit. So the question becomes, "Why pay for guns that will never hit?" You will always fire the battle cannon. It is your best option. There is no need for the twin las, it isn't worth the points.

on matters of punchiness, this is why the free powerfist trade up is good.
Defilers will wreck any other vehicle they run into, and will easily handle infantry units that aren't prepared to fight it, but watch out, it will take him awhile to squish all those pesky dudes one at a time.

The problem with the power scourge is that it deducts attacks from enemy models, even though you don't need it to. Most enemies that will fight a defiler in hand to hand will use krak grenades, melta bombs, and powerfists. Generally, only 1 model in a squad will have powerfist, if he has it all (unless its tactical/hammer nators) and models that throw grenades only ever make one attack. Its not a good deal for 25 points.

Upgrades that the defiler should take- Rip off useless guns to save points, dirge caster. yes.

I would also recommend that you reconsider plasma as your go-to weapon on your plague marines.

>> No.22549151

>Your opponent is making that up.
Possibly, or he may just be wrong.

If only to avoid arguments, always assume that your opponent has made a simple mistake or has misunderstood something when a rule turns out not to work like they claim. Accusing someone of making stuff up, or lying, or cheating is a good way to get into a fight.

That being said, if this kind of thing happens a lot around that person you might want to be wary of playing against them. A player consistently being "wrong" in a way that benifits them is very suspicious. Still, it is better not to make accusations. Just stop playing against them.

>> No.22549293

plasma is the best option for guys whose job it is to sit in home base and give mean looks to anyone who comes near them. It is very tactically flexible, but is not always the best choice.

If I were you, (and I have been you, I used to roll as many plague marines as you do) I would consider switching up your squad load outs.

instead of one squad with meltas and the majority with plasmas, consider 1 squad with plasmas and the majority with meltas.

The plasma squad are the babysitters. They sit at homebase and rapid fire anyone who looks at them funny.

The "Go out and do work" squad are the meltas, because melta gun is always the right answer. It kills vehicles. It kills characters. (S8 is the magic number.) It doesn't get as many shots as plasma, but each melta shot that lands is more likely to be lethal. Plasma only really shines against foes who use lots of single-wound terminators.

Its very important for you as a chaos player to be cracking vehicles early and often. Chaos loves AP3. We poop AP3. Marines in the open? Not a problem. Battle cannons. Baleflamers, Brand of Skalathrax, demolisher cannon. Marines in the open are dead. That is our job. That is what we do.

Marines hiding in metal boxes? Not so much. That requires dedicated anti-tank weapons, and for that kind of thing we need to call in specialists- Havocs, obliterators, predators... (and im not fond of predators) I like the maulerfiend, personally.

Anyways, if you're not going to use support assets to break open metal boxes and get to the chewy marines inside, then your troops need to be equipped to absolutely positively make sure that they break open metal boxes themselves.

Plague marines are great at this, because they can kill a rhino or a land raider, stand there, and let the foe charge them next turn- They don't care, they have defensive grenades. No attacks.

The best way for plague marines to accomplish their job is to rhino driveby. pop the sunroof, fire meltas. profit.

>> No.22549435

Typhus needs an army built around him (i.e. Zombie horde). For what you're doing with him, you'd be better served with a Nurgle Lord (possibly on a bike for dat T6), you save points to get more guys and guns.

Spawn are a fun, cheap, fast harassment unit you can use to attack a flank or even attack vehicles with your S5. Give them Mark of Nurgle for T6 beasts.

Drop the 'Zerkers, take Nurgle Oblits. Give Calgar/Mephiston/Draigo/scary man a face full of plasma. They tend to be much less scary then.

Take Cultists for cheap fodder. They're cheap scoring, but take at least 20 in a squad if you want them to survive a light breeze. With Typhus they become crazy tough, but lose all shooting ability, but again, you need to build a army around them.

To me, your Defiler's loadout is a lot of 'wha-?' to me. Give your Defiler *1* role (shooty CC, etc.) then build it around that, don't try to do everything, like what you seem to be doing. Besides, that Defiler is what, ~250 points? You can get a Land Raider for that, or 2 Vindicators.

Also, as others have said, Re-read the challenge rules. Feed the enemy a champion while your Lord or whoever slaughters the unit.

A trollerific move Typhus can do is to pop the Destroyer Hive in a challenge. Everyone under the Large blast takes a S4 AP2 hit (except Typhus). You can use this to wipe Marines/Termies before they can hit. Typhus should be able to tank most hits back so he can kill the enemy next round, assuming of course that the DH doesn't just kill the enemy character. Just remember, it hits your guys too. Oh, and Typhus would get to roll once on the Boon Table for each character killed by the Hive, useful if you snipe the Sgt of a unit while in combat with a captain or something.

>> No.22550164

Hey, is this the CSM army list thread? Great! You guys helped me with a list yesterday and I've got the revision done. It's gotta be take-all-comers, because my FLGS seriously has at least one of everything, and a good chunk of them are very competitive. Anyway, here's 1850:

Here's my list at 2000:

Chaos Lord - 140
Mark of Nurgle - 15
Chaos Bike - 20
Power Fist - 25
Combi-melta - 10
Meltabombs - 5

Daemon Prince - 145
Of Tzeentch - 15
Wings - 40
Power armor - 20
The Black Mace - 45

15 Chaos Cultists - 70
15 Chaos Cultists - 70
15 Chaos Cultists - 70

15 Chaos Cultists, all but champ w/autoguns - 84
15 Chaos Cultists, all but champ w/autoguns - 84
15 Chaos Cultists, all but champ w/autoguns - 84

Heldrake w/baleflamer - 170
Heldrake w/baleflamer - 170

9 Chaos Bikers - 180
Power Fist - 25
Combi-melta - 10
Meltagun x2 - 20
Mark of Nurgle - 54

Havocs x5 - 65
Autocannons x4 - 40
Veterans of the Long War (for +1 Ld) - 5

Havocs x5 - 65
Autocannons x4 - 40
Veterans of the Long War (for +1 Ld) - 5

Obliterators x2 - 140
Mark of Nurgle - 12

Aegis Defense Line - 50
Quad Gun - 50

Totals out to 1,998 points. What did I do wrong?

>> No.22550415

while you seem to appreciate the good codex units (autohavocs, nurgle bikers) I'm wondering why you have no CSMs of any variant as troops

>> No.22550453


>say I'm posting 1850
>post 2000 in the next sentence


First, I really like the idea of having a bunch of cultists running around, and second, I don't know how to run them competitively and I'm afraid I'll embarrass myself. I also like having bundles of scoring units just in case.

>> No.22550998
File: 325 KB, 900x857, 1356983034707.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Are Typhus's Nurgle powers even worthwhile?

>> No.22551012

I'd get rid of the cultists, the DP and the Aegis. That frees up a whopping 827 points, you can then get two 7 man plague squads with rhinos and meltas and still have 381 points left. As mentioned above a 7 man plasma squad sitting on your home objective is good too, this brings you down to 183. From the biker squad lose the combi-melta and take meltabombs and maybe 2-3 bikers bumping you back up to 240. Allowing you to MoN your havocs making them pretty tough (down to 210). I'd then take a 10 man MoN CSM squad with VotLW and maybe 2 meltas and something on the champ. This gives you a nice mono-nurgle list and a lot of scoring units.

>> No.22551086
File: 41 KB, 400x329, 1351554178801.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>plague marines with meltaguns in rhinos

But that's what I ran last edition. Can I really not be competitive without T5 spam?

>> No.22551093

bumping this thread from i dont give a fuck which page because DEATH TO THE FALSE EMPRAH

In regards to your cult spam list, There's a lot of stuff in there where I go, "YES. I WANT THESE UNITS BECAUSE REASONS." Like that other dude said, you picked the good units.

Where we're currently fucking up is cultists.

Having a lot of them is good. Not playing to their strengths... Not good.

First of all, lets bundle some of those smaller units into more comfortable 20 or 30 man bricks. Cultists caught out of cover are dead cultists. They wear tshirts, they need something to cower behind. Naturally, that's what the ADL is for. But to make them last longer against stranger danger and tarpit superior foes, lets make them big groups.

The other thing we need to do if you're going to go with cultist spam is reconsider your HQ choice.

Personally, i'm a big fan of Macey Prince. A lot of people don't like that he can actually be killed now that he doesn't into eternal warrior any more, but I think the amount of punishment he can deliver is worth the risk.

Back to the gameplan- For cultists to work, we need to make them stick around. To make them stick around, we must take 1 of 2 options.

option 1- Typhus. THE CULTISTS ARE NOW DIAMONDS. However, they no longer have guns. if you actually wanted to use those autoguns, that's gonna be a problem.

option 2- Dark Apostle. Everyone near him gets Ld 10, and if he decides to actually hang out with cultists, they become fearless and get hate. And when those little pissant fodder cultists get rerolls, that ain't a bad thing. Also, he can pick up the skalathrax in a pinch and help out with their lack of anti-marine.

>> No.22551192

guys, since you already helped OP, can you help me?

CSM 1500 points (if i recall) ARMY:

1 abbadon and 4 termies(2 powerfists,2 chainfists 2 combiweaps) inside a land raider

1 chaos lord(murder sword) and 6 chosen with mark of nurgle from DV inside a rhino

a helbrute with melta and power fist

3X5 marines with 1 melta and aspiring champ with powerfist

20 cultists from DV

havent played for some time so my memory might be hazy.

any changes i should make?

>> No.22551242

I wouldn't worry about it.

Get rhino, put in melta gun, profit! still works as good as it ever did last edition, worked best with plague marines, and works even better now, thanks to plague marines randomly getting poison.

is it necessary? No.

I was like you, I ran a mean nurgle list with rhino mounted PM melta, dual Dual demon princes, obliterators and blight drones (whenever people let me forgeworld) and I was running the kids over every weekend in the LGS.

It still works now, and I don't think there's anything that's going to make it stop working.

However, there are other options now. The codex is deep enough that we don't have to go back down that road if we don't want too.

the fact of the matter is, that list worked because it had too. Because plague marines were hard, and because they got shit done.

But there are other get-shit-done units in the army now. Our codex spams AP3 templates now, everybody wearing power armor goes home. There's so much MEQ hate now that you can get 1 or 2 units to do that job, then go with whatever else you want.

I still cram a rhino full of melta guns into every list I write, its a perennial unit for me. But it no longer has to be a redundant unit, and it no longer has to be plague marines. There's enough models pulling their own weight in the codex now that we no longer have to cherry pick the three best units in the codex.

>> No.22551294


Making the squads bigger is definitely a good idea; I just didn't know if having six scoring units outweighed the downsides. At 2,000 the FOC doubles, doesn't it? So I wouldn't have to drop the biker lord, which would be nice because then I'd want to pick up an icon of vengeance for the bikers to make them fearless again. Dark Apostle is a pretty cool guy, eh gets rerolls and doesn't afraid of anything. Also, a Tzeenchy mark gets him a 3+ invuln. So scratching out the Troop choices we've got now, we can do...

Dark Apostle - 105
Mark of Tzeench - 15
Power maul, vet of the long war, sigil of corruption - free

Cultists x30
Cultists x30
Cultists with autoguns x15

and makes the list 2000 on the nose. Only three Troop choices, though. Still makes me nervous.

>> No.22551340

This, I'd never take cultists competitively but if I had to for what ever reason it's go big or go home. A 15 unit without the MoN is going to die like a bitch to any decently geared army.

>> No.22551342

uh... yea. dude, we got problems. You need more toys.

First of all, the land raider is no longer invincible. any good opponent is going to pick that model up off the table and drop it on the ground on turn 1. Hull points mean glancing hits count, and the land raider is a whole lot of 230 points waiting to die. it doesn't have enough gun, and when its the only tank on the table, its a fire magnet that won't survive its reputation. I would rather deep strike terminators and let rip with combiguns than buy a land raider.

If I could, I would sell it.

As far as your lord+chosen rhino goes, the DV chosen with power weapons are cool models, but as their own unit, chosen are lackluster. they're better off being broken up and used as aspiring champs for marine squads. If you really have to use them, give them plasma or melta guns, hop out of the rhino, and melt faces.

Also, consider using your DV chaos lord as a sorcerer. Chaos psykers are very strong, and the murder sword is unfortunately not a very compelling weapon. I'm going to put some games on it this weekend, but it doesn't stack up next to the mace, or the on-demand, all the time strength of the power fist.

marine units should be compiled into at least ten man formations, so that they can unlock all weapon options and not give up kill points/first blood so easily. Double plasma is a good option, double melta is my preference for rhino-mounted squads.

DV cultists are fine, all 20 in one squad, but park them in cover. They need to hide behind an aegis line or in a forest or something, they'll get hosed in the open.

>> No.22551412

OP I would chill out on the plague champs. Plasma pistol and power fist is a bit pricey. I wouldn't bother taking plasma pistols, but that might just be me.

>> No.22551438

as much as it pains me to lose that nurgle bike lord, I think you made the right decision. I'd also squeeze a boon of mutation in on that apostle if you can find the points for it somewhere, he gets to reroll it, after all, he could wind up getting something really awesome like a 2+ armor save or eternal warrior, which would help him out a lot.

In terms of worrying about your scoring units, 2 things.

1- the reason we bunched up your cultists into bigger units is because 15 cultists is not a scoring unit. It will liquify under lasgun fire. It will evaporate under boltgun fire. Cultists are all or nothing. You get a lot of bodies and you go to ground and you stay there. 15 of them are dead.

But we've addressed that already. On to point 2.

Unless he's playing a special character list with terminator troops, your double heldrake baleflamer spam will sort out his scoring units. No 2+ armor save? Get wounded on a 2, fuck you, go home, no cover save. He doesn't have scoring units. Not after turn 2.

>> No.22551444

where should i put my abby then? he is the biggest fire magnet

but as soon as he gets into malee he simply rocks

i once played against blood angel player, after killing his squads of assault marines he asked me: "isnt that against the rules?" and lo it wasnt

agree on combining marines into 10 man squads with 2 meltas, but i have only 15 marines

as of murder sword, dude, it rocks in duels

>> No.22551468


Seconded. Plasma pistols just don't do what they need to for the points you pay. If you're close enough for a pistol shot, you're probably going to get into melee next turn, and unless you plan on getting lucky with that charge roll and closing a twelve-inch gap fast, you're really better off taking a combi-plas and getting two shots for five points less.

>> No.22551543

I would agree with this. The plasma pistol asks much and delivers little.

You will typically only ever fire it on a turn you charge, or on overwatch, and firing it will charging is risky business, as the S7/ap2 will kill anything except a paladin. your opponent will take that hit right on the chin, kill the closest model, and try to deny the charge.

15 points for potentially 1 risky shot the whole game is not a gamble I would take. I'm personally of the opinion that plasma is generally inferior to melta (it was in 5th ed, I think it still is) unless we start talking about "big plasma" like the plasma cannon. the smaller plasma gets, the less reward it offers, and the more expensive it becomes.

Why buy a plasma pistol when you can buy a whole plasma gun?

Another option is that the CSM codex is crawling with combiweapons, and they're cheaper than plasma pistols. If you're only ever going to fire the pistol once or twice, why not instead grab a cheaper one shot weapon, and spend that extra 5 points on a melta bomb?

I'd rather keep my bolt pistol and slap on a combiflamer or combimelta than go with a plasma pistol.

Oh and gets hot? Doesn't even matter. Not even in the equation. The reasons cited above are enough to sink the plasma pistol, we dont even need to talk about how it can potentially hurt you.

>> No.22551562

>where should i put my abby then? he is the biggest fire magnet
don't take him, he's too expensive for a 1500 point game

>but as soon as he gets into malee he simply rocks
see above

>i once played against blood angel player, after killing his squads of assault marines he asked me: "isnt that against the rules?" and lo it wasnt

>agree on combining marines into 10 man squads with 2 meltas, but i have only 15 marines
buy more marines, not that hard to do

>as of murder sword, dude, it rocks in duels
against one guy, who is going to do all he can to stay the hell away from you

>> No.22551642

what if i use the chosen as normal marines?
what bodyguards should i take for my sorc then?

>> No.22551695
File: 16 KB, 171x233, 1347232323482.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


Okay, so we can end up with

Daemon Prince with gubbins - 265
Dark Apostle with Gift of Mutation and MoT

Cultists x 31 (my OCD!)
Cultists x 30
Cultists w/autoguns x 30

and take 10 MoN bikers instead of nine to make up for the lost Nurgle Lord, and that brings us back to 2000 even. I guess you're right about the whole "setting my opponents on fire" thing. I kind of built the list assuming the enemy wouldn't be taking casualties.

>also, my apostle's face when he rolls some bullshit like hammer of wrath twice on the boon table

>> No.22551698

I have good news for you regarding your marines.

They can go in one big happy 15 man squad! We get up to 20. (we always did, but before 6th ed devalued killpoints and made first blood a big deal, and all cult marines were troops, it wasnt really a relevant option.)

as far as the murder sword goes, read the rules. It only goes FUCK YEA on one character model in your opponent's army. Ever.
also, if you're going to use it, use it on a slaanesh guy who will go first and kill most marine characters before they can fight back.

As far as Abby and co goes, deep striking is fine. If you play fast and loose enough, and get stuff like spawn, bikers, and maulerfiends, or just aggressive rhino rushing, you'll be able to keep the pressure on the opponent long enough for deep strikers to walk into a fight.

The problem with a land raider is that it is no longer the resilient model it once was. You trusted it to deliver abbadon into melee without him having to get off his fat ass and walk.

Against an opponent who is any good, the land raider no longer does that. It just gets popped, loses 230+ points, makes you said, and then Abby walks.

>> No.22551721

>where should i put my abby then? he is the biggest fire magnet
Drop him. Abbadon should be regarded as an Apocalypse model and nothing else. His cost is too high for what he does, and he requires further investment in sub-optimal shit (Land Raiders and/or Terminators) to let him do his job properly.

>but as soon as he gets into malee he simply rocks
But until he gets there he is useless, and he won't get there before turn 3 unless your opponent is either bad or unlucky.

>as of murder sword, dude, it rocks in duels
Against a SINGLE model out of the entire enemy army. Against anyone else, its a 35-point Power Sword. A Power Fist will kill everyone, all the time, for ten points less.

>> No.22551726

i can deep strike with abby?

>> No.22551777

yeah well, ill give my lord a mark of slaanesh and a murder sword

any duels other player throws at me will result in my victory mostly


>> No.22551806

Yes, same as anyone in Terminator armor.

Bad idea though, because he'll be eating [total enemy point value] worth of bullets the instant he hits the table via Deep Strike (assuming he lands anywhere relevant). Deep Striking also means that he can't assault anything until turn 3, but realistically not until turn 4 if the enemy has the sense to casually walk away from him when he lands.

>> No.22551807

>also, my apostle's face when he rolls some bullshit like hammer of wrath twice on the boon table

this happens.

I once booned up hatred on a squad champion that had vet of the long war. I was playing mehreens. Redundant hatred.

In the same game, I rolled up fearless on a model that already had it.

I once got a plague marine champion with fleshbane. Naturally, he already had a powerfist.

However, when the gods are good, the gods are good.

>playing blood angels, brought DP. He brought fast vindicators and a librarian, dat force weapon. I know how to keep my DP away from that shit, I can do this... Boon Roll... ETERNAL WARRIOR. Oh. Nevermind, well I just won this game.

game next week against same guy.
>Alright, I trashed this dude last time, but he'll come back smarter, and he'll be smarter about the DP this time. Serious Business time.

>roll warlord trait for DP. Get 6. Reroll boons.

>roll boon of mutation. Get 65. OH SHIT. Roll D3. FUCK MY ASS, I GOT 4 ROLLS.

>Get Eternal warrior, +1S, Icy Aura, Soul Blaze.

At the end of turn 3, he had one model left on the table.

>> No.22551831
File: 47 KB, 500x387, 1336075597887.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>i'm gonna gimp myself for pride's sake
>u mad bro?

Hey man, you play how you want to.

>> No.22551846
File: 10 KB, 380x272, i was surprised.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

surprisingly good

>> No.22551859
File: 107 KB, 704x895, 457_large.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Since we are talking about expensive units.

How about that Ahriman eh guys?
Master of Deception is nice, mastery level 4 is awesome. as is throwing out 3 witchfires

But his hefty price tag, Lack of Divination, and as much Anti-Psyker stuff out there I am a little worried thinking about running him

I had the plan of having him Infiltrate a Squad of Termmies at the very beginning and round it out with Thousand Sons if I rolled higher than 1 for infiltrate

Also Tzeentch list so no Mark of Nurgle/Khorne/Slaanesh

>> No.22551875

>any duels other player throws at me will result in my victory mostly

Until some generic terminator Sergeant casually walks up and easily butchers your Chaos Lord. A Power Sword isn't the most impressive weapon out there, and it isn't hard in the slightest for the enemy to play keep-away with the hero you're targeting.

>> No.22551901


Oh, that's a good question--who should my warlord be looking at DP versus DA, and should I roll in the codex or in the main rulebook?


Tzeench's stuff is a whole lot better than it was in the last book, that's for sure. Ahriman's a pretty hard beatstick, but with all this Deny the Witch stuff going on I'm a little wary of using psychic powers period.

>> No.22551919
File: 16 KB, 125x125, Yotsuba_Glorious!.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>not assaulting anything untill turn 3

that aint that bad

>agro rush everyone to malee
>deepstrike with abby for maximum lubricantless rape

remember that i have 20 cultists as canon fodder for that stuff...in fact, everything is cannon fodder including chaos lord/sorc

and since i no longer invest into land raider, i can have something fast to hit enemy and make him unable to shoot abby, the rest shooters i will dodge with visibility blocked by terrain

>mfw abby can deep strike

>> No.22551983
File: 616 KB, 1920x1200, 46971.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Yeah, Killing myself on perils or just never getting to cast a damn spell would be wonderful for a 230 point model

But I have to take some kind of Tzeentch Sorcerer and it might just have to be a barebones one because for some ungodly reason I cant take a Tzeentch chaos lord to unlock Thousand Sons

>> No.22552002

>that aint that bad

Thats pretty bad when his unit is going to be like 25% of your army in a 2000 point game. And keep in mind a turn-3 assault off deep strike involves you getting VERY lucky. It won't happen the vast majority of the time.

And god help you if he doesn't come in on turn 2.

>> No.22552031


these guys are all right. Abby is an expensive primadonna and you can spread out your hatred through more of the list to better effect if you drop him. He's so expensive that If given the choice between him and a demon prince, I'd even take the demon prince.

Abby can't be killed, but the DP can go wherever it wants, kills more shit than Abby, and doesn't need a land raider or terminator friends to go to work. The fact that its a less survivable model isn't a big deal.

but you dont need either of them. You don't need Abby or a DP.

our wargear list and our vanilla HQs are strong enough that the army works on its own merit without the need for special characters to babysit it. As a matter of fact, a nurgle bike lord with a skally/fist is just as survivable as abbadon, faster, and will kill more marines because he can put an AP3 template wherever he wants, and he'll do it for a little more than half the price of Abby.

A khorne jugger lord with an axe of blind rage will give kharn and abby a run for their money in killing power, and he'll get to the foe faster, without a troop transport, and he won't die to a krak missile or a melta shot like Kharn will.

A slaanesh lord with a black mace will kill everything before it can take a swing at him.

And our psykers are bossy. A level 3 biomancy sorc can buff himself into the incredible hulk and then beat the shit out of most MEQ HQs.

You don't need to go to the named character section to go to work in the CSM codex. You can build a perfectly functional HQ that will murder the shit out of everything much cheaper. The most expensive they can get will be just around 180 or 190, and we're talking about a model that can move 12", kill marines with a template, or beat the shit out of a squad by himself with demon weapon attacks. Abbadon isn't necessary, as a matter of fact, he's priced himself out of competition.

>> No.22552054
File: 57 KB, 475x800, 1356037351167.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>soul blaze
>icy aura
>black mace
>rape train
>no brakes

>> No.22552072

its not that big of a fuss tho

anyway, thanks for the tip, will reform my troops as you said

still dunno what to do with chaos lord tho, making him a sorc?but what bodyguard he will use when chosen are moved into those 2 squads of marines?spending points i get from land raider on his guards?

>> No.22552079


What really sucks is that Ahriman's forced to grab 2 Tzeentch powers, and those powers suck horribly outside of the Primaris one.

I've been thinking of doing a Slaanesh army, myself, but I can't decide on an HQ. The Lord is nasty in combat, but the Sorc can stay at mastery level 1 and just grab one of the two available Slaanesh powers, which are both pretty useful.

Also, I don't know whether the Brand is worth it. It's not a pistol so I'd lose an attack by equipping it, but it toasts MEQs so good. It's probably redundant if you run two Heldrakes with Baleflamers, though.

>> No.22552132

well yeah i decided to use chaos lord as generic sorc

you see, my abby is converted from a terminator chaos lord

and good builds for a chaos lord in terminator armor?

>> No.22552133


it takes one dude with a 2+ armor save to ruin everything for a model that can't AP it. Murder sword lords die to hammernator sergeants.

of course, that challenge is lost before it even starts. the terminator doesn't even have to win, he just has to stand there and lock a model worth 3 times as much as him into an unwinnable challenge for the whole game.

>> No.22552134

Two? I am fairly sure he just had to grab the one from Tzeentch and end up throwing the rest of the 3 into Biomancy.

Also I dont feel Tzeentch is too bad really, Doombolt being a beam makes it fun IF you can get the shot just right you can run down 3 or 4 people before the beam is killing on the average roll of 4+ all at ap 2 (Or was it 1?) and the gimicky fun Detonate, it being only 18 inches does sadden me though

Breath of Chaos is a powerful template and a hindrance to any sorc other than Ahriman who generates 4 warp charges a turn

Other than that yeah, the Tzeentch powers are a little so-so I feel, Slaanesh is a very powerful one to choose from.

>> No.22552181

He only has to grab at least one. He can have up to 2 of them max.

>> No.22552266


There are a multitude of better builds for a terminator lord than Abbadon. Try him with Mark of Nurgle, the Black Mace, and a unit of identically-marked Terminators popping in with him. Combi-melta or plasma is encouraged in case you need to get shooty as soon as you drop in. The reason this works much better than Abbadabbadoo jumping in by himself is because a unit of Nurgle Terminators can eat a retarded amount of bullets, and can typically get into close combat to put the hurt on some fools.

>> No.22552281

Ahriman aint so hot.

You get to spam witchfire, but keep in mind, your best witchfire, the template one, costs 2 charges and requires you to be close.

Also, he lacks all of the toys that make sorcerers powerhouses in our codex.

1) he isn't cheap.
2) he isn't as survivable as a vanilla HQ. A vanilla tzeentch character can get terminator armor/sigl and get a 2+/3++ or forgo the mark of tzeentch for a 2+/4++
3) his choice of weaponry is weak for a model of his cost. He's the most pillowfisted 200+ point marine in the game at S6/AP4 with 4 attacks.
4) no spell familiar? Come on, Ahriman.

You can build a meaner sorcerer, cheaper. You can trade the staff for a sword or axe for better AP, you can get better saves, and honestly... Tzeentch has a weak spell list. The boon roll thing is cool, but the template costs a lot and is harder to use, and the primaris is good. The laser shot is cool, but come on... You're gonna pay how much points just to shoot a weak psychic melta gun? No sir.

I'd rather have an unmarked vanilla sorcerer with 3 rolls on biomancy. He can take a sigil, get skalathrax if he wants it, and then cast buff spells on himself and his friends to hulk out. Not worried about deny the witch- the opponent can only deny spells I aim at him. I'm perfectly fine with my sorc getting +D3 S and T and Eternal warrior and giving his unit FNP and Relentless so that they can fire bolters on full blast and then run up and punch you.

>> No.22552298

anything with dual lightning claws?

>> No.22552327

he actually choked his attack rolls one turn
(how the fuck does a model with 5+D6 attacks hitting on 3s choke his hit roll?)
only killed 2 marines, then proceeded to pick up another 1 from the mace going off and then 3 more from soul blaze and icy aura.

Even after he got tired of killing marines all day and then sat down in his lawn chair to drink fruity cocktails in the middle of combat, he killed marines just by showing up.

>> No.22552331


He loves it. Just make sure you're charging into the right unit; lightning claws are too weak to take on TEQs and too strong to waste on hordes. Tackle any given marine squad and watch them fold like a house of cards.

>> No.22552407

so a chaos lord with erminator armor and lightning claws and mark of nurgle

sigil of corruption?
any chaos rewards?

>> No.22552444

pair of lightning claws is a 5th ed build from back when all power weapons worked on all armor all the time. In 6e, pair of lightning claws is strictly for aspiring champions.

Chaos lords need to keep something handy in case they run into other terminators, or failing that, need to always be in a unit where an aspiring champ can eat a bad challenge.

there are 2 prevailing builds for a chaos lord, you always play to the strength of your mark.

the first question is,

"are you taking a skalathrax to cook MEQs?" If answer is yes, pick up a power weapon appropriate to your mark. Fist is usually the best choice, especially if you're tzeentch or nurgle and have resilience on your side.

the next question is,
"Are you taking a demon weapon?"
If yes, its mark dependent. Khorne gets his axe, and that's AP2 at I5. Yes.
Everyone else gets the mace, which is only ap4, but will inflict so much rape that the hope is that someone will fail an armor save, and then be forced to explode.
if you are a khorne lord, get a bolt pistol and a jugger, or terminator armor. Pass go. collect 200 dollars.
if you are not a khorne lord, and are using a mace, consider grabbing a power axe or fist on the side in case you run into something with an armor save you really don't want to gamble the mace on.

>> No.22552476

because of the wording of Specialist Weapon you can now get +1 attack from a LC and a PF so dual lightning claws is pretty pointless now

>> No.22552509

Thank you, I will play with some points and see what I can make up.

Also, the fact I can take Brand on a Sorc and not Ahriman is really wanting me to take it.

If I plop the Sorc in a unit with Slow and Purposeful though, can he still get Skalathrax Overwatch or is he forced to not be able to overwatch because of the Majority Slow and Purposeful?

>> No.22552560

I wouldn't take the brand on a sorcerer as it means he doesn't get to use a witchfire, if you want him shooty roll on biomancy or telepathy and use the primaris power

>> No.22552596

My new models for this list are on the way.

1748/1750 Points


Chaos Lord
+Blight Grenades
+Melta Bombs
+The Black Mace


7 Plague Marines
+2x Plasma Guns
+PF on the Champ
In a Rhino
+Havoc Launcher

7 Plague Marines
+2x Plasma Guns
+PF on the Champ
In a Rhino
+Havoc Launcher

7 Plague Marines
+2x Flamer
+PF on the Champ
In a Rhino

Fast Attack

6 Chaos Bikers
+2x Meltagun
+Melta Bombs on Champ
+Power Sword on Champ

3 Chaos Spawn

Heavy Support

7 Havocs
+4x Autocannons

2 Obliterators

2 Obliterators

I am planing on painting them to be an army of The Cleaved. However I am not sure what I should paint the vehicles like. I was thinking perfect clean porcelian and then detail in some cracks and fractures, and give it all a wash in the recesses with the blood-oil combo the CSM's will have.

>> No.22552667

swap the plasmas for meltas and the flamers for plasmas and drop the rhino on the plasma squad. See here >>22549293

Your paint scheme sounds pretty good although i suggest rusting up the cracks and joints and then having the oil and stuff ooze out

>> No.22552710

You're going to suffer hard if they bring any decent flyers to the party.

It would be worth it to free 100 points so you can take an Aegis Line + Quad Gun so you can have some flyer defense. This has the added benefit of ensuring your Havoks will always have 4+ cover in a good location.

Also, I would seriously consider dropping the MoN on the Havoks. They're going to be eating stuff like Battlecannons and Krak Missiles far more often than they'll be getting shot by bolters. Yes, i realize you're running a themed list, but if you keep the paint scheme coherent then whether or not you've got "MoN" scribbled on the army roster won't compromise your theme.

Final thing: Go with Power Axe on the Biker Sarge, or find points for a Fist. You have no way to pop 2+ armor in melee, which is serious bad news.

>> No.22552873

Aww shizzle you are right.
Thanks for catching that for me.

As much as I love the brand I dont think I know a place I can plop it outside of a Shooty Constantly moving biker.

>> No.22553120

Thanks for the feedback.

I justify having the Plasmas rather then meltas as the Plague Marines are going to spend more time sitting still on objectives ass opposed moving around fighting vehicles that need Melta. I believe they will get better use out of rapid fire Plasmas with FNP saves to help mitigate Gets Hot! They Plasma has enough AP to deal with pretty much all models encountered and S7 will still be enough to shoot most vehicles to death.

The flamer squad are my most forward squad when deploying and thus have the 2 flamers for 2d3 snap shots against charging enemies, in addition they help fight blobs of Nids and Guardsmen that pop up at my LGS.

Thank you for the painting advice. I have a nice tutorial for painting The Cleaved and it includes some nice rusting techniques. I will try out your idea using the techniques there, it will make for some great consistency. If anyone has a guide to painting porcelain white I would be appreciative, all I can find is White Scars slightly grey-y white.

>> No.22553144

Thanks for the anti flyer advice and the dropping MoN on the havocs. I didn't consider that they will be getting targeted by things that will instant death them despite the toughness boost.

The power sword on the biker should read power weapon as I haven't decided between Axe or Scourge.

>> No.22553182

nope. Skallywag a biomancy sorc in a heartbeat.

The primaris power on biomancy is weak. The only power I would consider swapping it with is haemorhage, everything else in biomancy is solid gold, and easily outperforms a handful of S4 AP2 shots.

Keep in mind that sorcs are BS4, not 5. You're getting on (generous) average 3 out of 4 smite hits, followed 2.5 wounds on normal marines, with a 12" range, and they can Deny it. Denying isn't good odds for most units of course, and is hardly relevant, but a save is a save, and they get cover as well. You might kill 2 marines with it.

I'd much rather have a gauranteed cookoff that doesnt roll to hit, kills marines through a cover save, and has a good chance of landing a cheap boon roll if I template the sergeant, and keep all 3 of the biomancy spells I rolled. Not worried about sitting on my gun at all. I'd rather cast blessings.

Telepathy is a different matter entirely, psychic scream is stronk. However, I'm not addressing telepathy, only biomancy, which I personally think is one of our stronger lores, given even the god lores in our book.

>> No.22553188

scourge can only be taken on defiler or hellbrute.

>> No.22553220

That... would explain why its such a strong weapon.

I just looked at "Take a power weapon for +15 points" and looked at the list of power weapons.

>> No.22553241

then put the brand on a lord unless you're going max mastery and having the sorcerer providing support with blessings and maledictions

>> No.22553364

Me again guys.

Taking BOTH your advice (droping rhino, swapping up the loads outs on the marines gave me the points for the defence line.

Dammit I have already ordered the models :( Will have to wait for the defence line.

>> No.22553369

Points I agree with.
>Havocs don't need MoN. Gettin krak'd plasma'd pie plated anyways.
>Biker champ get axe. He's T6, he ain't in a hurry.

points I kind of agree with
>get ADL with quadgun to protect havocs and swat fliers.
Normally I prefer my ADL with comm station to reroll reserves, but you aren't taking lots of reserves, so that's irrelevant. Another nice thing about this setup is that the havoc squad's champion, who doesn't have anything to do, can man the gun while his buddies pitch autocannon shells.

points I do not agree with.
>flyers will give you a hard time.

Disagree. This is a fast, mobile army. You will be standing on your opponent's deployment line on turn 2 with nearly everything in your army. When you're that fast, it becomes difficult for flyers to hit targets. They have to deploy sidelong down the corner to hit stuff, and then they have to maneuver in subsequent turns to keep on target.

Flyers lose punch when they can't keep pressure on. If you make your opponent have to waste turns maneuvering to get good approach vectors on his target, he can't keep up with you, and will have to attack secondary targets instead. When his fire is divided between targets of opportunity, his fire is weak. The best defense against flyers is standing in your opponent's deployment zone.

>> No.22553383

make it into some terrain or something, Nurgle it up and play it as an objective or something.

>> No.22553440

that's the point. A brand-toting, full mastery bio sorcerer is effectively a lord himself. His buff spells make up for his average stat line, and he has access to the same protective items as his chaos lord peer. The biosorc is the ideal candidate for the Skally, this has already been accounted for.

The lord himself? Wouldn't stop for a skalathrax unless I was under pressure to keep things cheap. Much prefer to leverage his third wound, high initiative, and superior WS on a demon weapon or power weapon. As a combat monster, he isn't terribly interested in cooking people, unless he's a nurgle biker or steed of slaanesh outflanker and he has the mobility to plant the skally where he most desires.

>> No.22553445

>points I do not agree with.
>>flyers will give you a hard time.
this, as well as mobility you're putting out 8 auotcannon shots a turn averaging 1.33 hits against flyers plus whatever the obliterators decide to throw out

>> No.22553478

keep the third rhino. Don't trash it. Drop it for points because the plasma squad don't need to get anywhere, but don't throw it out or smash it for terrain.

Rhinos are solid gold. People will tell you otherwise in 6th ed, but they're wrong, and you have to play the long game.

you'll never know when you want it back. You might need it next week, you might need it next year, in any case, you'll be happy its on the shelf waiting for you when you do need it.

marines that can get where they need to be are more effective than marines that can't.

>> No.22553510

one should also keep in mind that the rules for ADL state that the wall sections only need to make contiguous lines where each section is touching another section.

If you're worried about flyers, this means that you can split them into 2x 2long-2short bunkers, deploy one on one side of the table with havocs, and another on the other, making a crossfire from which no flyer will be able to get away from.

>> No.22553564

I miss read his post and thought he had the defense line already and wasn't going to use it. I'm with you on the rhino issue.

>> No.22553686

Hey guys a question about Blight Nades.

If my biker lord has them, but the rest of the sqaud dosen't do they get the defensive nade bonous? Are they really needed on bikers? I took them because yay blight but now I am thinking they are useless.

>> No.22553761

Made changes to PM squads. Drooped one Spawn. Picked up Line+Quad.
WHAT DO WITH EXTRA POINTS? Preff without getting extra models. Havoc Launchers?

1727/1750 Points


Chaos Lord
+Melta Bombs
+The Black Mace


7 Plague Marines
+2x Plasma Guns
+PF on the Champ

7 Plague Marines
+2x Melta
+PF on the Champ
In a Rhino

7 Plague Marines
+2x Melta
+PF on the Champ
In a Rhino

Fast Attack

6 Chaos Bikers
+2x Meltagun
+Melta Bombs on Champ
+Power Sword on Champ

2 Chaos Spawn

Heavy Support

7 Havocs
+4x Autocannons

2 Obliterators

2 Obliterators

Aegis Defense Line

>> No.22553762

Do bikers even get access to blight grenades?

>> No.22553812

Lords do. It's a Lord on a bike.

>> No.22554204

The squad has defensive grenades, so yeah, they get the bonus. They're worth it if theres a chance your bikers will be assaulted and you like them.

>> No.22554292

My bikes should be the ones assaulting though. Not the other way around.

>> No.22554315

Then they're not worth it.
Though I reccommend changing that stretegy, bikes really aren't meant for assaulting IMO.

>> No.22554451

>T6 nurgle bikers
>assault weapons
>power weapons
>hammer of wrath

Nigra please.

>> No.22554598

Raptors can do that just as well, I tend to use bikes to gun down infantry with dem twin linked bolters or fuck tanks with meltaguns/bombs

>> No.22554924

but the privilege of the biker is that they can do all that, THEN assault them. Relentless is a beautiful thing.

also, CSM bikes even have bike-mounted assault weapons. They don't even have to hold onto their assault weapons like their bitchass loyalist peers do, they get to keep their BP+CCW!

>> No.22555350


>> No.22555431

Can someone explain to me how to make a shooty chaos army. I want to out gun people or at least cause a lot of damage primarily through shooting.

I have the DV content, two forgefiends a warpsmith a box of raptors and another squad of DV chosen.

What should I do to this bunch of scalligwags to make them shooty

>> No.22556862

sell them and buy sound marines.

>> No.22556907


Check your privilege motorized scum!

>> No.22557013


up against tau
Total Roster Cost: 1500

HQ: Kharn the Betrayer (1#, 160 pts)
1 Kharn the Betrayer, 160 pts

Troops: Khorne Berserkers (10#, 271 pts)
8 Khorne Berserkers, 152 pts = 8 * 19
1 Berserker Champion, 59 pts = (base cost 29 + Melta Bombs 5 + Power Fist x1 25)
1 Chaos Rhino, 60 pts = (base cost 35 + Daemonic Possession 15 + Dirge Caster 5 + Dozer Blade 5)

Troops: Khorne Berserkers (10#, 246 pts)
8 Khorne Berserkers, 152 pts = 8 * 19
1 Berserker Champion, 34 pts = (base cost 29 + Melta Bombs 5)
1 Chaos Rhino, 60 pts = (base cost 35 + Daemonic Possession 15 + Dirge Caster 5 + Dozer Blade 5)

Troops: Chaos Cultists (10#, 50 pts)
9 Chaos Cultists, 36 pts = 9 * 4
1 Cultist Champion, 14 pts

Troops: Chaos Cultists (10#, 50 pts)
9 Chaos Cultists, 36 pts = 9 * 4
1 Cultist Champion, 14 pts

Elite: Chaos Terminators (3#, 145 pts)
2 Chaos Terminators, 87 pts = 2 * 34 (base cost 31 + Veterans of the Long War 3) + Chainfist x1 12 + Power Fist x1 7
1 Terminator Champion, 58 pts = (base cost 33 + Lightning Claw 17 + Lightning Claw 5 + Veterans of the Long War 3)

Fast Attack: Chaos Bikers (3#, 88 pts)
2 Chaos Bikers, 52 pts = 2 * 21 (base cost 20 + Veterans of the Long War 1) + Flamer x2 10
1 Biker Champion, 36 pts = (base cost 30 + Veterans of the Long War 1) + Melta Bombs 5

Heavy Support: Havocs (6#, 165 pts)
4 Havocs, 87 pts = 4 * 13 (base cost 13) + Flamer x1 5 + Meltagun x3 30
1 Aspiring Champion, 33 pts = (base cost 23 + Combi-Meltagun 10)
1 Chaos Rhino, 45 pts = (base cost 35 + Dirge Caster 5 + Dozer Blade 5)

Heavy Support: Defiler (1#, 205 pts)
1 Defiler, 205 pts = (base cost 195 + Dirge Caster 5 + Havoc Launcher 5)

Heavy Support: Havocs (5#, 120 pts)
4 Havocs, 97 pts = 4 * 13 (base cost 13) + Heavy Bolter x3 30 + Plasma gun x1 15
1 Aspiring Champion, 23 pts

>> No.22557209

Why bother with VoTL if you are tailoring for vs Tau?

>> No.22558121

it makes it a perfect 1500pts.
might aw well take the extra leadership.
and never know if i might use the same list against SM.

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