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[ERROR] No.22256553 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Sup /tg/, you may remember me from last night (or might not since I'm not in the business of namefagging). I was going to go to my FLGS today to pick up an ironclad dreadnought kit and see if I wanted to start playing 40K.

Well, I sat in on a game and a half before I had to leave and it looks pretty fun. I won't be buying any models (not even the ironclad) until I've played, but I'm seriously craving some artistic expression and painting minis seems like a great, though extremely expensive route.

It looks like the local scene is pretty varied, but they really look down on tyranids and don't have any eldar or dark eldar players as far as I can tell. There's a guy who has Salamanders and Tau armies, a guy who has been playing the same Necron army since they were first released, a really awesome painter who does Nurgle Guardsmen among other things and a brony who apparently uses a zebra pony thing as a countsas HQ for his Sisters army. I know there are a couple other marines players. They all seem pretty cool. I mostly stood around and watched, I didn't know what to ask etc and felt weird asking for a tutorial game (they were pretty busy).

cont.

>> No.22256556

I think I've got it narrowed down to three factions I'd like to play: Tau, Necrons, and Dark Eldar and Space Wolves, kinda. I don't know anything about the local meta other than they like to play games between 1500-1850 most of the time. I like the idea of having a diverse Tau army with different auxiliaries, but I know they're getting updated soon. Necrons are badass and I love their new fluff, apparently they're easy for beginners to paint, too. Dark Eldar are super cool and my favorite faction in Soulstorm but I'd only play Kabalites, none of that fleshmonster horseshit.

For that general point cost, what kind of price am I looking at for these armies? Where can I learn more about the rules and making lists? How easy is it to get my mitts on some codices without buying them?

>> No.22256631

>>22256556
>How easy is it to get my mitts on some codices without buying them?
>>/rs/
Make sure it's the most recent edition number/date for each codex, though.

>> No.22256737

>>22256631
This, and don't forget to check the errata and FAQs in White Dwarf.

>> No.22256760

Is a 6th edition rulebook download on /rs/ yet? Anyway, OP, that's what you want for the rules.

If you want to buy one, you can probably ebay the Dark Vengeance rulebook for not much.

>> No.22256804

>>22256631
>>22256737
Sound advice that I am heeding as we speak. You wouldn't happen to know how many pages are in the 6e core book, would you?

How do I make sure I'm grabbing the right edition? I'm just matching the cover art to what's on the GW site since they don't appear to be clearly marked.

>>22256760
Dark Vengeance? What's that? I'll probably buy the books from my FLGS and most of the models online. Maybe. I'm trying to strike a balance between being cheap and buying .pdfs/online goods and supporting the only FLGS within three hours drive.

>> No.22256869

>>22256804
Dark Vengeance is the boxed starter set for 40k. It's much better value than other ways of starting, but only if you want either Dark Angel spess muhreens or Chaos spess muhreens. It contains a small rulebook, though, which is more convenient than the giant (and expensive) hardback one you'd have to buy otherwise.

>> No.22256894

>>22256631
And if you want to use them at the local GW you'll need to buy one. If your FLGS isn't GW then check with them about print offs/pdfs.

>> No.22257022

>>22256553
1d4chan actually has pretty decent tactics articles for each army.

I'd suggest hitting Warseer and DakkaDakka if you need more info, but keep in mind that the 40k community has 1,000 times the self-loathing you're used to. Don't let the constant negative bits overshadow the potentially good bits of advice.

Tau are nifty, but really showing their age right now. Allies make them functional.

Dark Eldar are a really solid army, but they're unforgiving to even minor mistakes. Those fleshmonstery guys (specifically Haemonculi HQs and Wracks as troops) are pretty great at killing run of the mill dudes, something Wyches and Kabs don't do too well.

Space Wolves are probably the most newbie friendly of what you've spelled out for options.

Necrons... they're pretty solid. So long as you limit yourself to two or so flyers you shouldn't catch much bitching.

one last piece of advice, pic related.

>> No.22257030

http://www.3plusplus.net/

This is a good site I learned of for learning the basics, among other things. Playing casually doesn't mean you have to play badly.

6E rulebook looks like this, at least 100+ pages.

>> No.22257057

>>22257030
>that picture
That hardback rulebook's more like 400 pages, yo. I imagine the Dark Vengeance booklet version would be closer to 100.

>> No.22257116

>>22256869
Dark Angels are dumb and Chaos is double dumb, but maybe I can pick up the little book off eBay, thanks!

>>22256894
There is not a single GW store within 100 miles of my location. From the looks of it everyone was just sharing one rulebook and had their own codices with them, which is more stomachable.

>>22257022
I've read the 1d4chan writeups... they were all so good I couldn't decide!

Aren't Tau getting an update soon? If so, I'll postpone my decision till then.

If DE are that hard to play, I might not pick them. Could I use Eldar as allies to shore up some of their weaknesses and just countsas some DE models for consistency?

I love the look of necrons but I don't want to step on the established necron vet's toes.

Space Wolves... a last resort. We'll see.

>>22257030
>>22257057
Thanks for the link, I will peruse it.

The rulebook I found has 343 pages but no covers. It has rules for allies though, so I'm assuming it's 6e.

What's wrong with the rightmost guy's face? jesus

>> No.22257141

>>22257030
On the topic of blogs, never, ever, ever go to yesthetruthhurts. Guy's a horrible subhuman asshat.

Mainly, he's just bad at having fun.

40k, at it's core, is about painting cool models and showing them off. It is not a well designed game by any stretch of the imagination.

>> No.22257169

>>22257030
>gamer_boiiz.jpg

>> No.22257176

>>22257116

>tfw no servoskull

343 pages and allies sounds like ^E to me

Tau are looking at an update in April, if I recall correctly

As far as know, DE's main weakness is in its troops, something Eldar don't really help with, on the other hand psykers

>> No.22257188

>>22257116
>Aren't Tau getting an update soon?
Probably. Problem is GW doesn't officially release information in advance, so when exactly is hard to say. Probably some time in the next... six months? Which in 40k terms truly means 'soon'.

Also, updates aren't necessarily good. It should make the army better overall, but it could also crap on existing powerful units and/or be overly focused on a few good units, leaving others as terrible choices. Impossible to say until it actually comes out.

>> No.22257205

>>22257057
It's ~150~.

>> No.22257222

>>22257116
Tau are getting an update, but don't hold your breath. From what it seems it won't be until at least midway through next year (someone correct me if something else has been heard).

Tau did get some love from the new edition though, so it's not like they're unplayable atm. Would be annoying if they are drastically changed I suppose.

DE are unforgiving because they're not marines or swarm armies. You can't rely on the statline or the body count, respectively, to save your ass in bad situations.

If you like something else, that's new to the local meta, that'd be great, but if Necrons are what you want, don't short yourself on what you like just to please others, you have deal with your army all the time, best that you like it.

My secondary army is Space Wolves, I like them, but I can see why you wouldn't want to play them. They can get some really fun theme lists though.

Strange how the local group looks down on Nids.. that's strange.. I can't say I've ever been unwelcome for bringing Nids to a tournament. Maybe people don't like the more competitive monobuild / psyker spam. If that's the case, very easy to make a fluffy Nid list, just not as effective.

>> No.22257249

>>22257141
It's not even a game designed to a mediocre standard... 40k is arguably one of the worst designed wargames, but with one of the best marketing. And the models range from 'wtf is this shit!?' to fairly good.

>> No.22257254

>>22257116
>If DE are that hard to play, I might not pick them. Could I use Eldar as allies to shore up some of their weaknesses and just countsas some DE models for consistency?

DE aren't hard in the sense that they're bad, they're just hard to play.

>> No.22257259

>>22257116
DE are enjoyable, don't get me wrong. It's just... some games can be an exercise in removing models from the board. If you're fine with always having a plan and bringing your A game all the time, they'll do well for ya.

Eldar allies help them a bunch. War Walkers in particular.

The biggest weakness they've got is the lack of saves. Most of your games will be some variation on "get opponent to spread out, hit them in fragile spots."

There's this thing, called the counts as rule. Basically, you can represent any model with just about anything so long as it is reasonable.

Pic related, it's a counts as Deff Dread.

By "getting an update soon" the 40k community means "possibly sometime within three years."

>> No.22257354

>>22257176
Eldar helps greatly with Guardian Jetbikes and Rangers/Pathfinders. These are much more durable troop choices that are likely to be claiming a 3+ save or better, and they're great at being where you want them.

That said, Dark Eldar are pretty bad at staking out a bit of territory and holding onto it for the whole game.

One thing... don't buy too many of the same type of model or too many models that do the same thing. 6th edition did a lot to encourage bringing a wide variety of units to the table.

>> No.22257736

>>22257176
>>22257188
>>22257222
Okay, I get that an update doesn't mean a good update. But I don't want to pick Tau now, make a list, and then get my shit slapped in April or whenever. That's the kind of megamad that'd put me off 40K for good.

If I do decide on necrons the fact someone else plays them wouldn't upset me. From what I see he hasn't updated his army for several years, whereas I really like some of these new units and would've never considered playing oldcrons.

They don't like "tyrakids" and joked about them all being cheaters, saying they hoped I didn't pick them, etc. I don't know. Tyranids don't appeal to me anyway. Wiener rifles.

>>22257254
>>22257259
>>22257354
I can see what you mean by unforgiving now. That'd kind of suck since I'll be learning the ropes, but their models are just so cool! Plus I like the idea of an interdimensional hunting party of sorts.

I really hate eldar models though, so I'll probably just countsas some DE like I said. Bitchdar just look so... 80s. And not in a good way.

So now I know kabalite DE are a fast, mobile, shooty army that likes to dive and conquer, but they're very fragile and rely on cover/vehicles. I should consider guardian jetbikes, rangers, pathfinders and war walker allies. Is this correct?

Could I get some similar dissertations on Necron and Tau?

Sorry it's taking me so long to reply, this thread is making me nostalgic for Dawn of War.

>> No.22257809

>>22257030
>3++
>good
ButThat'sWrongYouFuckingRetard.jpg
Seriously, even no-one actually plays 40k on /tg/ is better as a rule.

>> No.22257926

>>22257736
>they're very fragile and rely on cover/vehicles
Even the vehicles are fragile. They are immensely shooty, though.

Also, which fucker started calling Elfdar 'bitchdar'? I'll cut the bastard, I will.

>> No.22258096

>>22257736
That's a pretty good summary. That said, don't discount our melee options. DE can't outshoot say... Tau or Guard very well, but we easily trounce them in melee.

It may be worth it to bring a fortification along with Dark Eldar because you really *do* rely that much on having cover. The Bastion does well, the Aegis is a cheaper alternative for infantry.

Tau have amazing guns, but terrible accuracy. To make up for this, they use Markerlights to do things like decrease cover, make a shot more accurate, and the like.

Their vehicles are hard to kill thanks to getting Shrouded and a Jink save. Generally, they take Kroot or allies to stand in-between their expensive guns and the enemy.

They have trouble if their markerlights get disabled or if the enemy can cover lots of ground quickly.

That said, Tau also have a variety of support for Deepstriking units, and Pirahnas & Devilfish can serve really well as fast harassment vehicles.

Most Tau games will see you holding your rear objective, shooting the opponent to pieces, and trying to take an unguarded objective from the enemy.

Crisis suits and Broadsides are amazing. Firewarriors are pretty nifty with their str 5 30" rapid fire guns.

>> No.22258097

>>22257736
Tau = extremely shooty at long range (Deldar are more medium-to-short range), and decently armoured, especially with their flying tanks now getting super coversaves for cheap in 6th edition. They have the longest range, highest strength standard infantry guns. They're utterly boned if the enemy gets into hand-to-hand combat, though- all they have in that regard is kroot auxiliaries to act as meatshields.

Also their infantry are prone to running away when they start getting hit hard.

Also also their Crisis Suits have fun jumpjets that allow them to jump into range, dump plasma death on the enemy, and jump away again before they can fire back.

>> No.22258161

>>22257926
I bet it was that brony IG fuck.

>> No.22258382

>>22258096
Necrons are resilient, though their main units suffer a bit in melee.

Strengths:
--> Amazing wargear and tech. Being able to spread it wherever you feel like.

--> Some of the best flyers around. Certainly the best flying transport.

--> Annihilation Barges, Death Rays, and Doom Cannons are good at reaching across the board and blowing stuff up.

--> Wraiths and Scarabs are downright amazing at melee.


Downsides:
--> They aren't that good at negating enemy cover.

--> Each of your units is specialized to handle one type of problem. If the opponent kills off your one answer... you're in trouble.


Generally, Necrons want to walk into rapid fire range and unload volley after volley. They're really good if you can turn it into a straight up attrition game.

Part of the problem you'll run into is that your units that get around traditional Necron weaknesses are freaking expensive. You can pay to help shore up that weakness, or... you could take more of those amazing warriors or immortals.

The Court and Overlords are really where most of the threat and variety on the table comes from.

>> No.22258416

>>22257736
>They don't like "tyrakids" and joked about them all being cheaters, saying they hoped I didn't pick them, etc.

Murder them

>> No.22258481

>>22258382
>Each of your units is specialized to handle one type of problem. If the opponent kills off your one answer... you're in trouble
On the other hand, their basic infantry weapons can murder dudes and tanks equally well, no?

>> No.22258517

>>22258481

From what I've seen they can do both if the need arises. I've seen Leman Russ tanks and Land Raiders fall to one rapid fire burst.

Of course there are better choices, but they can do it.

>> No.22258566

>>22258481
Gauss only works on vehicles now.

Flayers are just Bolters in any other instance.

>> No.22258601

>>22258566
Well bolters do alright at killing infantry...

>> No.22258610

>>22258601
Meh

>> No.22258662

>>22258481
Yes, Gauss weapons are an answer to anything, if you can apply enough Gauss.

Would it be more accurate to say that "most of your units are specialized to, etc. etc."?

Those Warriors are a really strong point in the codex. I mean, compare them to Kabalites. For two more points Necrons have a 4+, reanimation protocols, t4, and a better gun.

>>22258416
This. There really isn't any other option.

Makes me wonder. I mean, Tyranid players are hardly ever That Guys.

>> No.22258706

>>22258662
>Makes me wonder. I mean, Tyranid players are hardly ever That Guys.

I can imagine things

"Do you like my Tyrannofex"

"Uh"

"Yes he's using that Seraphim as a cocksleeve"

>> No.22258751

>>22257926
>>22258161
>>22258416
>>22258662
>>22258706
The brony played Sisters, not IG. And I just saw it on /tg/ I learned it by watching YOU!. They are kinda bitches though, can't even settle down on a planet or nothin'.

Why should I kill them for disliking nids? I think what happened is an employee's 12 year-old son (who is infamous in our PFS) plays nids.

Do you have any other pictures like that little eldar guy? I love the style.

>>22258096
>>22258097
>>22258382
How durable are Tau and Necron in general, relative to Dark Eldar?

How diverse are typical Tau forces? I really like the idea of having some kroot, some vespid, some gue'vesa, some squ- I mean deimurg and maybe some new stuff if they add anything in the codex. I also like the battle suits though...

I love Trazyn and necron fliers, I think there are some really trolly possibilities there. I also kind of like the idea of specialized units but general purpose infantry.

I'm leaning about 20% Tau, 35% necron and 45% DE at the moment...

>> No.22258832

>>22258662
>I mean, compare them to Kabalites
Heh, and now compare Kabalites to Guardians. For one more point Kabalites get +1 WS, BS, and I, power from pain, night vision, and a gun that shoots twice as far. Oh, and more and cheaper heavy weapons.

Nope, not bitter at all.

furiousspaceelves.jpeg

>> No.22258854

If you look at Necrons remember that you're elites are generally bad or below average while you're fast attack has some of the best units in the book

Scarabs decimate vehicles much faster than anything other thant drop pod melta dreadnoughts
Wraiths are one of the best ways to kill small groups of elite infantry
Destroyers can make up their points just taking potshots at marines since a group of 3 will probably kill 3 marines a turn (this is not average numbers someone else can do that if they want)
Tomb blades are more expensive and more mobile twin linked immmortals

>>22258751
For their cost necrons are the most durable in the game thanks to universal ld10 meaning you're army is basically immune to stuff like fear and to fail morale tests on average you're opponent will need to win by 4 kills, and reanimation protocols applying even if they kill you're squad down to one warrior with any kind of weapons means immortals are essentially terminators as far as durability goes in the presence of a res orb

>> No.22258868

>>22258706
Heresy!
Got pics?

>> No.22258885

>>22258751
>Do you have any other pictures like that little eldar guy? I love the style.
Artist's name is Shwig. He's a cool dude.

>> No.22258921

>>22258854
>decimate vehicles
So... let's say you're up against a land raider and two rhinos... you knock one hull point off, total?

I'm not sure I'm impressed.

>> No.22258945

>>22258751
Ah. Possibly ribbing on the owner's kid then. Alright.

My little brother plays 'nids, and I've gotta respect anyone willing to slug it out with that bad of a codex.

Dark Eldar durability is a funny thing. Raiders, for instance, can get a 4+ cover save, count as being 6" further away than normal, and be around 37" away from their starting poin that turn.

Not that easy to kill, if played right.

But that said, they're only slightly more armored than Orcs or Tyranids. Less armored than Imperial Guard.

Tau have better armor across the board. They can also get access to invul saves and shield drones to eat up wounds meant for their HQs.

Usually Vespid are ignored.

Typical Marines would be next on the durability spectrum.

Then Necrons. Partially due to extra bodies, partially due to reanimation protocols and Rez Orbs, partially due to having extra numbers and Ghost Arks.

Unless you want to get yelled at, stay around 1-3 flyers. There's lots of nerd rage being directed at "Necron Air" lists.

Only necron pic I have.

>> No.22258964

>>22258751
>How durable are Tau and Necron in general, relative to Dark Eldar?

Necrons are a lot more durable than people think. As >>22258662 points out, even your basic infantry has a lot of survivability for a cheap price. Reanimation Protocols are something almost nobody bothers to take into account but it's very much a thing. Plus, you things that can further augment their ability to last. You also have LD10.

As an army they stand up extremely well to shooting and, as 6ED slowly shies away from assault, it's not that as bid a deal to fold in CC as it used to.

Tau are like Necrons in the sense that they fold in CC and not like Necrons in the sense that they aren't durable in any way. You try to stay as far away from everything as possible.

>> No.22258976

>>22258945
This model needs a 6th edition version.

>> No.22258996

>>22258964
>not like Necrons in the sense that they aren't durable in any way
Shield drones, yo. Also, they stole the Eldar's 'invincible flying tanks' trick and the blue bastards are refusing to give it back.

>> No.22259000

>>22257809

Nah, as far as I've seen they actually know what they're talking about, unlike the majority of /tg/.

>> No.22259013

>>22258996
(although, yes, they're less durable than Crons and Marines, so they're overall pretty low in the durability tiers)

>> No.22259014

>>22258921
A base squad of 3 scarabs cost 45 points and moves 12 inches a turn plus charges 2d6 with fleet for an average of 9 assuming they charge a land raider that moved they will make 15 attacks hitting on 3+ and removing a point of armour on a 4+ so its down to an armour value of roughly 9 now and with the 10 hits now rolling to pen will do roughly 1.66 glances and the land raider can now be penned by warriors.
Now imagine for a rhino those same 3 scarabs still do 10 hits and reduce armour by 5 so going against rear armour of 5 they on glance on a 2+ so out of those 10 rolls to pen you will get maybe 2 failure and 2 glance. Now imagine paying for a full squad.

>> No.22259027

>>22258996
The only thing they have going for them is the fact that their negation of hits to vehicles is a lot more important this edition since having high AV isn't as important anymore.

They're still not very durable.

>> No.22259043

>>22258885
Makes me want to play a Castle Crashers-esque 40K game.

>> No.22259046

>>22258832
You've got a point. That said, I'm really jealous of your str 6 shooting, psychic powers, scoring jetbikes, HQs on jetbikes, reserve manipulation, and decent infiltrators.

I can't tell you the amount of time I've spent trying to make Mandrakes work. They were my first unit. I own 20.

That they're weaker than Kroot, not troops, and at double the point cost... earns all my rage.

pic related. It's GW's rigorous codex writing and playtesting department.

>> No.22259048

>>22259014
I was just facetiously commenting on the use of the word
>decimated

>> No.22259094

Dark Eldar a fun, powerful, flavorful army with very few bad choices in the book and some downright beautiful models. However, they are also the most unforgiving army in 40k except maybe Barrel of Monkeys. With that in mind, I recommend not starting out with Dark Eldar unless your heart is set on them. They're very difficult to use.

>> No.22259622

>>22258885
Awesome. Is there a collection of his work somewhere?

>>22258854
>>22258945
>>22258964
>>22259014
>>22259094
So what I'm getting from this is necron are pretty tough and their aircraft are butthurt-inducingly abusable. Their vehicles have reach and their infantry are pretty good vs infantry and vehicles. Most of their other units are pretty specialized in one area, so I could just swap them out depending on who I'm up against. What are the drawbacks? What does DE do better than crons, besides mobile vehicles?

Tau just seems to be fish out of water right now... I don't like the idea of one squad of faggot marines bursting through my lines and wrecking my shit. Just seems like a pain in the ass. Do these guys have ANY non-conceptual redeeming factors?

I'm thinking of kicking the Tau out of the running and replacing them with Space Wolves...

>> No.22261547

>>22259622
Friendly bump out of interest. What DO Deldar do better than Crons? I assume close assault, but what else?

>> No.22261904

Bump for interest as well. What advantages exactly do dark eldar have over necrons?

>> No.22261927

>>22261904
I was wondering that too. A friend of mine and the guy who I'll probably playing the most if I ever get enough dosh for an army plays deldar and I intend to play crons.

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