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/tg/ - Traditional Games

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[ERROR] No.22252661 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Any advice for how not to create and play a Mary Sue, or equivalent?

>> No.22252696

Don't expect to be perfect, even at what you're good at.

>> No.22252707


Don't play

>> No.22252727

You know, i actually like the character in the pic. Bit over the top, but nice for a fighting game that isn't takeing itself too seriously.

>> No.22252730

It is extremely easy to not create a Mary-Sue. Simply realize that while you are an individual among the crowds of the world you are not perfect or the only one who is special. Even if you are a stand out, you simply become a face among a different crowd.

>> No.22252745

It's alright.

Other people have shitty taste too.

>> No.22252749

basically this

>> No.22252756

Don't? There is no advice for not playing a Mary Sue. The best thing to do is show us a character concept but the best rule of thumb is to give them just one badass thing in their life that really defined them.

>> No.22252778

As a general rule, any character who's weakness makes them better at killing is a mary sue

>> No.22252785

>Guns are for pussies

>> No.22252791

Share your character with us OP.

If you are unsure, get advice

I don't, but I still can't not make a mary sue so I'm not at that stage yet

>> No.22252808


Yeah, as a general rule Mary Suedom has red flags but no specific rules. You can get a feeling about how Suish something is by appearances and backstory, but only in execution can you really determine.

>> No.22252844

Oddly, the OP's pic is a prime example of hypercompitent but not mary sue. Gogo is socially inept, despite being prime musclegirl fetish material, she's easily broken down by even the most simple rejection.

>> No.22252847

If you're in danger of playing a Mary Sue, just give your character brain damage and play it seriously. It might make your character look silly and be occasionally less than useful, but it balances it out in the end.

>> No.22252862

Have actual failings and accept that they will work to your detriment. If you feel you can overcome them through hardship, do so, but be careful and make certain that it makes sense.

For example, say your character is a procrastinator. Reading some shitty book isn't likely to help. A friend getting killed because he didn't finish writing a spell, or never told somebody something is a better wake up call.

>> No.22252937

This is a pretty good test to ensure your character's not too terrible:

>> No.22252960

If your character does a lot of fighting, "plain" is probably the best they can hope for appearance (unless magic is involved of course)
Most fighter types have scars all over and generally are very rugged looking.
Mary-sues will naturally look perfect even though they should be scarred and ragged.

>> No.22253042

what about sci-fi settings where the weapons are deadly enough that you either die or don't get hit at all

>> No.22253074

That's not the same type of fighting really.
The same way modern soldiers aren't really warriors.

>> No.22253093

There people are fighting from the bridge of a starship.

>> No.22253099

Well rounded flaws.

>> No.22253150

No I mean lightsabers

>> No.22253212

There are people who have survived being hit by lightsabers. Also, not everyone in the star wars setting is using lightsabers. Also, jedi are wizards-monks, no warriors.

>> No.22253248

Did I say it was star wars?

>> No.22253260


Lightsaber combat is very physical and can potentially involve kicking, grabbing and pushing your opponent. Plus you can survive getting something cut off and get a bionic replacement, which Ton Phanan can attest is not exactly a CHA bonus.

>> No.22253299


But Lightsaber™ is owned by Lucasfilm.

>> No.22253862

It's true, you know.

You don't see The Incredible Hulk using a revolver or anything, do you?

>> No.22254136

A Mary Sue robs the reader of the ability to make judgments on the character in question.

>> No.22254284

I like this character too. I think it'd be fun to have in a party of mine, assuming it would be played well.

As for the whole Mary-Sue question: it is either the most Mary-Sue character I have ever seen or one that was specifically made by an experienced person to be boarder line Mary-Sue.

On a side note, I have the sudden urge to roll a character whose primary means of combat is a standard wooden baseball bat.

>> No.22254325

Base him off this guy.

>> No.22254364

10/10 would lol again

>> No.22254991

I handle it in one of two ways. The first one is character quirks, I'm not talkin an odd twitch that happens when it's not inconvenient, I'm talking full blown shit, like a Cleric who refuses to heal for free, even when somebody is dying; a Barbarian who is a professional archeologist; a thief who narrates everything he does in noir film fashion; a paladin who has another personality that is a black guard.

Two is cultural differences. For example I ran a fighter who came from a culture where women were property. Needless to say he had a lot of issues with the female members of the party. Or another one would be where

>> No.22255364

Mental Illnesses are tricky, they can be used to be a full blown Mary / Gary-Sue

>> No.22255381

It's not a fighting game, it's a webcomic.

>> No.22255429

See: River Tam

>> No.22255431

1. Must have ridiculously high stats.
2. Must be a Paladin, or the settings version of an invincible "High And Mighty" fighter/caster.
3. Must have blue hair.
4. Must be extremely flashy, out-awesoming the rest of her party at every chance.

>> No.22255437

Just think - if you were the GM of this game, and you had this character described to you, what would your reaction be? Try to write a paragraph on a scrap of paper describing your character to somebody who knows nothing about it. Does that paragraph describe somebody you expect to see in the setting? Imagine your character from the perspective of another person, and decide if you'd find them interesting, were you hearing about them rather than playing as them.

>> No.22255493

Not him, but while a couple of things clearly drift the character in sue territory, I find a flippant agile fighter that punches the ground in submission while providing her own commentary an amusing concept, if a bit over the top.

>> No.22255515


It can only end one way.

>> No.22255557

Doesn't necessarily lead to Mary-Sue-ness, just can be. People trying to force their character to be special.

>> No.22255596

She wasn't a Mary Sue, she was a fantasy girl for the writer.

>> No.22255686

Unless you go out of your way to play a character you hate and is bad at everything. All characters are Mary Sues. What matters is how badly your Mary Sue screws with the other players' ability to enjoy the game. E.G. constantly taking the spotlight.

That is how I interperate it anyway.

>> No.22255749


Ness was the most Gary Stu out of all the Mother protagonists.

>Psychic powers
>Father heaps money all over him
>BBEG was specifically out to kill him
>No real flaws

Compare to Ninten, who had asthma, and Lucas' crybaby tendencies that actually had an in-game effect in the final fight.

Of course, I can't be objective about it because Lucas holds a special place in my heart. He didn't get the girl, he lost his mother in a horrible tragedy, and he was struggling to just get the remains of his family back throughout the entire thing. Saving the world was just something that was happening in the background.

And even in the end, after all the blood and sweat and tears were shed on so many battlefields across the world, he still didn't manage to make it happen.

He gave it his best shot, and only ended up saving the world from a bully that went mad with power.

>> No.22255980

Ironically, one that rarely ever involves combat or fighting. So it's almost like a fish-out-of-water slice of life comic.

... why the fuck does she have these superpowers if all they really do is make her awkward?

Well, there you go. That's the comic.

>> No.22256124

I contest that just about every character we play comes from our own superego, so every character we make is a Mary Sue, in manner or another.

For example, I've had a history of playing wizards. Like me, the wizards I play love knowledge (believing that magic a stronger asset than physical prowess), and are Chaotic Good secular humanists.

My most recent character is a Minstrel made for WFRP 2nd edition. I made him to utterly break my normal demeanor.
>I consider myself modest, he's an utter attention whore (he works in entertainment, after all).
>I consider myself well-educated, he just recently learned how to read and speaks with a very poor vocabulary ("Don't go onto the ship! It's hainted!" "That's 'haunted' you twat!' "What!?")
>He's engaged to be married at age 17, and is thoroughly pussy-whipped. I'd slap the crap out of him for being so stupid if I could.

He's also despite the aforementioned flaws, he's also confident, ceaselessly optimistic, and, in general, just a jovial guy. In a nutshell, he has all the traits I wished I had, while suppressing the traits I'm proud to have.

Every character we make comes from the superego, whether it supports or directly contradicts it. If we are to enjoy playing our characters, it has to be this way. The important thing is just to make our Sue's original and fun to play, while keeping a few things in mind with your characters:
>You are not the main character of your story.
>You cannot fix every problem with good looks/charm/altruism.
>You have flaws.
>Neither the universe, nor society itself, is going to kiss your ass to the top.

tl;dr: Watch Snow White and the Huntsman. Do not be Snow White.

>> No.22256554

I could honestly see this character in some post apocalyptic setting where the concept of sports has been twisted into some mythic combat art.
Would be kinda cool.

>> No.22256590


>> No.22256683

Well that's just lies and slander. The situation is ENTIRELY out of context. If you look closely, Hulk is holding a pair of matches to clear the stench of ganja from the room as Captain America kills two armed drug-dealers. The Avengers were just doing their jobs. It's not their fault Slyde was raised by criminals.

>> No.22256700

It's the Carlton that really does it.
I heard it in his voice.
Well played.

>> No.22256724


Because it's entertaining. The author has said that he wants to actually do a story arc, and he heavily implied that he wants to take it in a medieval-era fantasy direction.

Yeah, so it can be just like every other medieval fantasy story. Awesome.

>> No.22256776

Super powers are for pussies.

You don't see the punisher emitting gamma rays or anything do you?

>> No.22256842

The thing is "Cool" is kind of a bell curve.

A jedi is cool. A dragon is cool. A jedi riding a dragon sucks. A jedi riding a dragon wearing a trench coat and he's also a Drow elf sucks balls.

>> No.22256976

recently did my character, got a 21.

>> No.22257590

Medieval fantasy?

... but...

The whole thing's been modern.

>> No.22257599

The Punisher is kind of a big sopping vagina though. He can't even take down Captain America.

>> No.22257636

Be rounded.
Have flaws and quirks and be unlikable sometimes.
Also, be changed by your experiences. Imo the modern sue is the same person they were when they start as when they finish.
That's enough, I think.

>> No.22257677

Is the Dos Equis guy a Mary sue?

>> No.22257753

That's...a good question/example to puzzle over.
He's unique -"the most interesting man in the world."
People like him almost universally.
But he's old. When I think Sue, I think young. Especially eternally young.
Not many, none I can remember offhand, get or go Old.


I don't know. That's like asking if Dracula was a Sue...? Or Hercules maybe?

>> No.22257758



A corporate shill.

>> No.22257764


>> No.22257828

Have flaws. and not flaws that you just glance over or seem endearing. But full on, quite possibly get you into shit, and/or piss people off.
Like a warrior who refuses to let any enemy live, regardless of surrender. Not because he's evil, but because he sick and tired of people he let love coming after him again and causing problems

>> No.22257863

Yeah, Elminster's good. Dumbledore maybe?
Damn. Getting hard to say No.

>> No.22257915

Dumbledor was gay though. Or is that no longer a flaw?

>> No.22257965


The actor playing dumbledor was gay. I dont ever recall anything about the character specifically indicating he was of the homosex

>> No.22257984

people keep saying that. Where the fuck in the books did that come up in?

>> No.22258002

The author brought it up at some convention or something. No, it didn't come up in the books and no, it isn't even remotely relevant.

>> No.22258014

It didn't. But, Rowling confirmed it in an interview.

>> No.22258046

I don't know man. I think being a disgusting sexual deviant is a good character flaw

>> No.22258049

Not really a flaw, unless he had to hide it for fear of genuinely damaging consequences.
Or in other words if it's not an "enhancement flaw" ("my facial scars only enhance my cheekbones") then it counts.

>> No.22258128

so meaning it didn't matter two fucks and we have zero real evidence to confirm or deny it.
unless it's in the books I give no fucks what the author says.

>> No.22258207

Even then, having flaws that make everybody hate you because THEY JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW SPECIAL YOU ARE can be very Mary-Sueish.

>> No.22258285

Did some searching, since I'm bored.

>JKR: My truthful answer to you... I always thought of Dumbledore as gay. [ovation.] ... Dumbledore fell in love with Grindelwald, and that that added to his horror when Grindelwald showed himself to be what he was. To an extent, do we say it excused Dumbledore a little more because falling in love can blind us to an extent? But, he met someone as brilliant as he was, and rather like Bellatrix he was very drawn to this brilliant person, and horribly, terribly let down by him. Yeah, that's how i always saw Dumbledore. In fact, recently I was in a script read through for the sixth film, and they had Dumbledore saying a line to Harry early in the script saying I knew a girl once, whose hair... [laughter]. I had to write a little note in the margin and slide it along to the scriptwriter, "Dumbledore's gay!" [laughter] "If I'd known it would make you so happy, I would have announced it years ago!"

>Jo also said after revelation: "You needed something to keep you going for the next 10 years! ...Oh, my god, the fan fiction now, eh?"

>JKR: [re: Grindelwald] I think he was a user and a narcissist and I think someone like that would use it, would use the infatuation. I don't think that he would reciprocate in that way, although he would be as dazzled by Dumbledore as Dumbledore was by him, because he would see in Dumbledore, 'My God, I never knew there was someone as brilliant as me, as talented as me, as powerful as me. Together, we are unstoppable!' So I think he would take anything from Dumbledore to have him on his side.

>> No.22258306


Just did the test and my depressed alcoholic fighter, got a 14.

>> No.22258312

yes but sue hate tends to just be petty with no "real" reason ("I hate you because you're so much more powerful than me" not I hate you because you're a raging dick you has hurt everyone he's ever been involved with") or actual effort behind it. The sue can also always deal with the resulting trouble handily and is never in real danger.
Pissing off the king and half the court, being forced to flee the kingdom, and spending half of your life looking over your shoulder for frighteningly competent hunters is reasonably un-sue like

>> No.22258320


But that's wrong.

>> No.22258331

Concept character is ironic and that's fine.
Artist overdid it (perhaps on purpose) with the appearing tattoos and all this leetspeak/emoticons.

>> No.22258469

Rolled 18

Gogo is...not morphologically fixed. She grew up in Soviet Russia and was a homeless freak of nature most of her childhood.

Pointlessly violent, bad hygiene, and inflated sense of superiority. But she tries, at least.

>> No.22258502

Gogo is shit.

>> No.22258507


>> No.22258509


>> No.22258531


>> No.22258532


>> No.22258545

Vanheist? On MY /tg/?

This is a decidedly pleasant surprise.

>> No.22258609

OK starting from the beginning:
Gogo Ayo Gigamoto Bomango

>> No.22258626


>> No.22258667

THIS ONE>>22258507 then this one >>22258532
then >>22258469

>> No.22258677


>> No.22258686


>> No.22258707


>> No.22258718


>> No.22258728


>> No.22258755

Too bad he tried to make her all misunderstood and serious.

>> No.22258801


>> No.22258804

huh, this is nearly the same discussion I had with my friend word per word minus the mecha arm when she cut her hair. now I'm weirded out.

sage for not knowing what the fuck is going on.

>> No.22258807

And then followed it right up with her being awesome again.

>> No.22258808


>> No.22258810

Ahhhh bloody lurve Goo-goo!
Russian Dinosaur Mutant woman.
And her sensible, lesbian simulacrum.

Really? When?

>> No.22258814

I thought she was just socially retarded.

>> No.22258820


>> No.22258833

I never found her awesome. It's some guy trying way too hard to make his fetish-bait waifu likable.

>> No.22258834


>> No.22258872

Is there a website for this?
All im finding is the guys deviantart.

>> No.22258884


>> No.22258888

I think that's it.
Doesn't really run a paysite or anything.

>> No.22258903

Actually if anything Didi is more the Mary Sue than Gogo

>> No.22258910


>> No.22258913

Is Didi really a lesbian?

>> No.22258917


>> No.22258926

Wait for it . . .

>> No.22258935


>> No.22258937

They are both terrible.

>> No.22258943


>> No.22258955


>> No.22258970

So..... Why does she listen to him?

>> No.22258980

She's not a simulacrum. They are both the same person. Didi is an alternate possibility, one that is educated, polite, and peaceful.

And a lesbian.

>> No.22258982


>> No.22259004

now it gets into the longer comics

>> No.22259016

Heh heh heh.

>> No.22259019


>> No.22259050

Yeah, I'm assuming she's the literal expressions of everything recessive in Gogo right down to sexuality and temperment.
Yeah, not a simulacrum.
There's another world, means something like "identical but still different."
Not chirality, but like how if you were cloned you'd have a copy that was genetically identical, but still wasn't actually the same as you.
Can't remember. Fuck.
Ah, whatever.

>> No.22259059

She doesn't seem like a lesbian...

>> No.22259063

have to to skip a few there, some are just too damn longhuge

>> No.22259097


>> No.22259110

She has a very rarely mentioned, or seen, girlfriend.

>> No.22259112


>> No.22259126


1/10, got me to roll my eyes.

>> No.22259133

No. There's andy's cousin who shows up once and while. The inference to her leanings comes from a soon to come comic . . . and a few words from the artist

>> No.22259145


>> No.22259147

Wasn't the words from the artist is that Didi just partakes in feminine things, which lo and behold, includes fucking women?

>> No.22259157


>> No.22259161

Ugh, that was just painful to read.

>> No.22259177

Fucking women is a very masculine thing to do, hence why musclegirls and other tough girl archetypes are usually accused of lesbianism and paired with women or feminine - often younger - dudes.

>> No.22259185

Basically yea.

Also Didi is a separate entity, like an identical twin. She just happens to be Gogo's inverse as well.

>> No.22259197

I'm not spoiling it.

>Gogo's a SUE
>appearance insecurity

I love the Internet. Seriously. Can't do this shit in real life.

>> No.22259208


>> No.22259250


She was a joke character that some people liked. Most Sues are self inserts, VanHeist just literally puts himself in when self-inserts
SEE: >>22258801

>> No.22259282

The little scrawny kid is Van's self-insert. Gogo is his dream girl, right down to her "flaws"

>> No.22259332

I'd have to agree with that. All of her "flaws" set the boy up to be a foil.
The boy, though a self insert, isn't too bad of a character

>> No.22259385

I put forth that if the character is not annoying and is, in fact, entertaining and fun it is not a Mary Sue.

Case in point, Dr. McNinja.

>> No.22259390

Eh, overthinking it takes the fun out.
I've got enough to obsess about already, eh?

>> No.22259415

But Gogo IS annoying

>> No.22259449

No, Van is van's self-insert. He shows ups once and while. Andy is the 'normal guy' IE the point of view character. Hector is the 'supporting-bro', Gogo is the inner monologue pushed to ten and given form. More akin to Hobbes from Calvin and Hobbs. Didi was an accident, more there to balance Gogo than anything.

>> No.22259483

Fuck yes.
Be special and PROUD!
That's my attitude. There will always be more people to hold up there status as cog as a sign of quality.
Shoot for awesome.

>> No.22259520

There is a difference between an artist's avatar and a self-insert.

Breakfast of Champions features both Vonnegut's self-proclaimed self-insert, Kilgore Trout, and his avatar, himself with mirror shades.

>> No.22259525

An author can have more than one self inset character. it's a pretty common thing to the "unobtainable powerful woman" to represent an author's dream girl and that she falls for joe average tends to a form of wish fulfillment
Are you saying Andy is the straight man in this comedy duo?

>> No.22259529

Exactly. Mary Sue usually comes with a certain instant negative about them.

Gogo is more a random factor/living Mcguffin like Vash the Stampeed than anything

>> No.22259564

She is LOLRANDUMB incarnate with a SO SAD backstory to make her "deep".

>> No.22259582

Essentially yes.

>> No.22259626

ASIDE: normally i wouldn't care so much, but i actually know the guy, so i kinda feel i should defend his creativity

>> No.22259657

totally untrue.
Elminster, the total fuck, is a prime example.
ALL of the fucking books about him that are an utter power wank. Clearly there is an audience that finds this entertaining.
Anita Blake is another. Fuck loads of books. Clearly liked by some people.
Certain members of the Twilight franchise (Who's names I shall not utter in this place) are also beloved and yet terrible sues.

>> No.22259681

been lurkin, really enjoying the comics. Thanks dude

>> No.22259692

But Gogo isn't creative. He just turned TF2's Heavy/every generic Russian stereotype ever into a hawt bitch and threw in a few super powers for good measure. The whole thing is generic as fuck.

The semi-retarded yet mechanically competent main character
The cutesy mascot
The effeminate straight man/love interest
The educated nagger
The apathetic intermediary

>> No.22259729

>General archetypes!
>I see them everywhere!

Just started on tvtropes, eh? You'll get over this phase.

>> No.22259780

Actually no, but I'll give you half of your statement. You can't deny that the mascot at the least is shoehorned in.

And the rest is just not very good. Like, it's not bad per se, but I feel like I have already heard all these jokes before. There's nothing really new or entertaining here.

>> No.22259826

Anon delivers: Group shot with (I presume) Didi's girlfriend

>> No.22259853

I wrote a paper on how everything's been done before, and nothing in this day and age is really unique.

I had a longstanding bet on teh SFFforums back when the internetwebs were new; show me what you've written/created, and I'll find something just like it.

Never lost that bet. Not once. The only real creativity left is just combining what has already been done in new and entertaining ways

So, is there a bit 'O the Sue in Gogo, yea. Is she the best example of Sue-ism? No.

>> No.22259873

Superior brown musclegirl/white blonde lesbian combo at the beach picture.

>> No.22259923



You think THAT is muscular?

goddamn son, try hitting fucking gym for once in your life

>> No.22259950 [SPOILER] 

Her muscle level varies from pic to pic and is definitely on the softer side of musclegirl. I got a nice pic of her abs, but I really shouldn't be posting it on a blue board.

Alternatively, you mad.

>> No.22259951

Yea that's Cerrone, her other other

>> No.22259962

original gogo

>> No.22259978

inbetween gogo

>> No.22259995

new gogo

>> No.22260023


Barely noticeable, her arms and legs aren't particularly thick or impressive. Having a good looking midsection is as much diet and dehydration as it is doing a modicum of exercise. And some people are just blessed with good genetics and don't develop fat or flab there nearly as much.

So yeah, not a muscle girl. Vaguely athletic at best.

>> No.22260026

You lose

>> No.22260034

also, pic attached.

>> No.22260064

Didi and Gogo?

So who's godot?

>> No.22260077

Hush, you. She even lifts.

>> No.22260105

"No one needs anyone, they don't even just pretend."
-David Bowie

>> No.22260109

'The fuck kind of form is that? Shamefur dispray.

>> No.22260110


>> No.22260128

Bullshit, they're in love. Just look at em.

>> No.22260176

Well shit. I retract my Bowie-ism.
Eh, I should call it.
So. tired.
Been a busy day.
Tried to save orld.

>> No.22260198

>this will never happen to you in your sleep

>> No.22260201

She is easily my favorite brown girl.

I'll agree she's well below fetish-level muscularity, but she's also well above 'vaguely' athletic. You don't have to be big to be relevantly strong. Literal size actually makes a smaller and smaller difference the the heavier the class in question.

>> No.22260207

>or this

>> No.22260218


I see a bunch of athletic and fit women, and some who are actually muscular. What is your point?

>> No.22260226

yeah, it's good.

>> No.22260271

That is a picture of female Olympic athletes. That should inform your opinion regarding the female body.

>> No.22260275

>not even married

>> No.22260292

and not a single set of tits

>> No.22260316

Oi. Cant believe i never posted it after all that build up

>> No.22260328

All images of them done after this depict them with wedding bands.

>> No.22260375

>Is you into GIRLS?!

>> No.22260382

Indeed. Observe.

>> No.22260485

How is this not an awesome thing? It's half Inglorious Basterds and half Gorillaz, like if Noodle meets Donny Donowitz. Pic sorta related.

Anyway, if you're not twelve years old, a die-hard otaku with the mind of a twelve-year-old, or a a fanfic writer you're probably not going to make a sue by accident. Let's face it, PCs are standouts by their very nature, so it's just about being sensitive to the way other players are designing their characters.

As a rule of thumb, so long as you're not giving your character an unusual amount of special abilities compared to other characters, making up abilities, or giving them a backstory that doesn't mesh well with the campaign setting, you're probably safe.

>> No.22260742


>> No.22260765

Real 23. You can find him on Boorus and the like.

>> No.22260804

A bunch of his art:http://gelbooru.com/index.php?page=post&s=list&tags=real_xxiii

A comic he made with a cute brown chick and a blue-haired futa: http://g.e-hentai.org/s/8c468ee499/449333-1

>> No.22260885

She be rustling. /tg/ always loves a good rustling.

Also, these gals... man, I'm just going to assume they play airsoft.

>> No.22260896


>> No.22260924


>> No.22260960

You wouldn't want such pretty girls getting shot. I certainly don't.

Even if by my memory, all anime/manga shootouts suffer from immense stormtrooper syndrome, especially in terms of female protagonists.

>> No.22260986

No problem. His lesbians are fucking adorable.

>> No.22260992

We catgirl now?

>> No.22260999

Yeah, we catgirl now.

>> No.22261084


Varies from anime to anime, animes are typically worse about it than manga. There are some realistic anime in that way, in those ones you typically don't want to get too attached to any character. Others though will do everything form never letting someone else get a shot off, to just going all out and letting a girl dance in the rain of bullets.

>> No.22261271


>> No.22261294

And also?
Don't ask the Internet.

>> No.22261364

>> No.22261378

You know...this might sound crazy...but try making a side character.

Alright, so a side character usually has a noticeable trait, right? Something that separates them from the rest.

There brute strength yet caring nature, or perhaps their obsession with the the letter H, or their connection to their italian heritage.

Now imagine your current character and your side character going on adventures, and write down how each of them would react.

And as you do this in your head, your side character's personality slowly grows more and more.

And if you like that...make that your main character.

>> No.22261526

>fuck how is that helmet not falling off that's one strap too few
>why not just use a baseball bat
>how are the tonfa whateverthefucks going through each other and why is it explained away with magnets
>those sandals aren't stylish or particularly impractical
>gunmetal is not blue why would you name a color gunmetal blue
>where the hell does she keep the chain
>i would like this character if not for the drawing it's not even particularly sue

>> No.22264512

That's funny, because I feel like the drawing is the best part whereas the character itself blows.

>> No.22264579


Yeah, I know.

>> No.22264650


>> No.22264681

Is there a hidden cache of racier Bomango images someplace?

I mean not that I'm personally interested in that sort of thing or anything.

Just asking for... reasons.

>> No.22264732

I do have a question, if someone uses tonfas, does that make them a Mary Sue?

>> No.22264740


>> No.22264761

then my hate is justified, thank you.

>> No.22264768

Hell yeah motherfuckers. MOTHER
And this turned into a gogo-bomango thread so damn quickly...

My takes on it?
1.WHAT SHITTY DIALOG THEY HAVE. It's literally hard to look at. It's like an omega spoke, and they took down everything. At first I thought this was written by a female weeb because I thought a man had enough dignity to not go that far.

Upon further inspection. Nope. Beta as fuck weaboo.

On one side though, Gogo is delicious.
the whole andy thing just makes me want to puke though. I would give her mutant babies, yet he sits by idling, allowing this chick to live with him and doing nothing about it.

On the mary-sue thing. It is specifically a self insert in fan-fiction that is better than everyone through reasons that don't click.
Gogo is just a mutant in a world without them.

That doesn't make her a sue, it makes her the main character.

As for the opening post, the easiest way not to make a sue is to stay in context. It's veering away from the universe's internal consistency that makes them.

One can be strong and unique without literally breaking the consistency of the world.

>> No.22264802

Whether or not she's a Sue, she is still a very bad character. Which is kinda what Sue means these days.

>> No.22264918

Not making a sue is about making a character more people than you can enjoy, if a character hogs the spotlight all the time regardless if it's because the character is too great or too flawed it's going to bore everyone to bits since they won't get any time to explore their own characters or in the case of another sort of fiction they won't get to explore the world or the people around the mary-sue/gary-stu.

Take the example of Gogo, it's basically all my fetisches rolled into one and I have a fascination with overly flamboyant over the top characters but she's simply boring, all the comics in which she appears instantly turn into being all about her. She's too exposed to be even remotely interesting.

But in different environments like (such as previously mentioned) Fighting Games you don't have to limit yourself in the same way since the consumer will pick their own favourite and root for that one regardless, and in a story mode they will probably see their own favourite defeat the other Mary Sues, making the genré less prone to the phenomenon.

>> No.22264974

>"How do I not play a Mary Sue?"
>Gogo thread.

I guess it's the OP picture that drags a thread off the rails this far, but >>22264768 has it on what makes or doesn't make a Sue.

So, go ahead and play yourself something weird, but don't break the internal consistency of the world at large and don't make the character just, "you, but better." You should be fine, if you stick to that.

No one ever said she wasn't a bad character, but she is, at the very least, interesting. In the most, "morbid curiosity," way possible, of course

>> No.22265015

Not really. She acts like your basic Russian stereotype and has a few random super powers added on to make her special.

>> No.22265124

Maybe it just doesn't take as much to interest me, then. I am a redneck, after all. Make it shiny, make it spin, put flashing lights on it, or, if it's a person, give it head-sized tits.

If I'm not already interested, I'm sure to be after that.

>> No.22265246

Question: are skeleton characters in RPGs typically/inherently Mary-Sue? I've not played in a proper pen-and-paper RPG but I have a hankering to play a skeleton character.

Need more skeletons.

>> No.22265308

I'm planning on creating a Paladin who has pledged himself to a sun goddess (after actually meeting her). Now part of that goddess' creed is that there should be no laws but hers. So following that logic do you think it would be okay to make him Neutral Good (signifying that he regards himself as above "lesser laws")?

>> No.22265330

This is 4e I presume? In 3.5, it would be out of the question.

I'd still say he's LG, but that's the alignment system for you.

>> No.22265352

All lawful good means is that you follow a code. Doesn't have to be the law, but it has to be a coherent, consistent, set of laws.

>> No.22265609

Two characters a buddy and I made. Could be gary stu if it weren't for their general failures as normal people.

One was a child prodigy, declared to be an oracle at birth,was in line to become a high priest of Mystra then got the adventuring bug. Now he's in his mid 30's, unmarried, no prospects for a wife or kids. Is good with the ladies but couldn't seal the deal to save his dick. His parents (picture George Costanza's parents) weren't too pleased Which of course made end of year celebrations pretty damned miserable. Is normally a calm, collected, easy going peace maker who tries to work on the long game. Buuuuut, should a massive monkey wrench be thrown in to it by something that is just down right retarded, he becomes a gibbering idiot, unable to deal with his own frustrations.

His best friend, also a magical child prodigy, youngest person to be appointed to the elders council in Halruaa. Got kicked out because he is an abrasive prick who has no problem telling why you're wrong and why he's right. Generally dislikes people, social situations and pretty much anything not sitting doing research. Also now in his mid 30's, unmarried, utterly useless around woman. Rather paranoid that people are out to undo his work. Loves to go home during the end of year holiday's if for no other reason than to watch his best friend squirm under the constant nagging of his mother.

>> No.22265627

A man after my own heart.

For all I hate the storylines and character banter in Gogo Bomango, I really like the design of the lead character.

Maybe if the artist had a half-assed decent writer, he'd be able to do something with it other than make it a Harem Anime of Two.

>> No.22265637

I have the feeling that you guys would call any character without a glaring weakness a Mary Sue.

>> No.22265655

Well, duh. That's what it means, doesn't it?

I once played Fallout and had to hex edit the damn thing to change the Vault Dweller's name to Gary Stu because it was hard for me to otherwise accept how badass I'd become by the end of it.

But hey, when I played Baldur's Gate 2, at least I had the foresight to choose the name at the beginning.

>> No.22266228

No, that is not what it means, because out of trying one's hardest to NOT be a sue, they end up making one anyway.

Being TOO normal in any given situation begs the question "Why are you here? Or moreso, why are you not dead yet?"

Lets say we have a group of Spess Muhreens, and suddenly a guardsman. He is plain as rain, but he always stays alive at the end of combat, he is liked by all of the chapter brothers, and they don't give him ANY shit. They actually adopt him as a brother, just cause he is a bro.

Shit goes down, guardsman throws a grenade into a warp portal at the end of the last fight, just for that FUCK YOU AND FUCK YEAH! moment.

He is the biggest sue of them all, and in fact Mary sue herself was plain looking as fuck. That is why it WASN'T internally consistant. Because she was young, and unexperienced, and all of that, and charisma alone, and I mean unintentional divine charisma, is what made the enterprise crew even pay attention. She had a shitload of flaws, but flaws aren't what make someone not as sue. All sues have flaws.

They just don't matter. They are throw-away like
"he's genki to the max! or She is socially awkward", but everyone likes them anyway, and moreso trusts them with any sort of responsibility.

Mary sues are people who no one SHOULD be around as the main character, just because of their flaws, yet people are swooned by their force of being anyway.
Gogo is ALMOST a sue, but her boobs are so damn awesome, that her sex appeal is what people are attracted to. If she was a hag, and still got that response, she would be a sue.

>> No.22266422

Okay, so, you guys keep saying Gogo is a fetish character but I have to ask...

Is poor hygiene really a fetish for some people?

I mean I myself can't go for more than two days without bathing, and poor personal hygiene on a woman is ESPECIALLY bad

>> No.22266543

>smell/bad hygiene
>a fetish
Yes, but the one most people are talking about is the musclegirl fetish. That is, women who are profoundly strong and muscled. Gogo's built like a dude; a dude with great stonking tits, sure, but a dude nonetheless.

And that puts her on the chart of musclegirls, because she has a six-pack, wide shoulders, and muscled legs and arms. She's a low-end musclegirl, but she still counts.

>> No.22266566

I suppose for most that's not what it's about, I think it's more of the dominant, powerful wild girl.

But I'm with you, I can't stand people with bad hygiene.

>> No.22266573

So, if the main character is just incredibly normal, but somehow lucky enough to not die repeatedly, despite magical/hyper-technological/insane shenanigans, are they a Mary Sue, or simply a main character whose only power is being supernaturally lucky(/unlucky, because they draw this shit to themselves)?

>> No.22266829

Weather or not a character is Mary Sue is almost entirely in execution. The traits that mark a character as Mary Sue are just common crutches used by shitty writers to make their characters seem less shitty.

>> No.22266838

Addendum: This actually makes their characters even more shitty.

>> No.22267153

I'm just saying I'm not so sure it qualifies. There might be a bit of fetishy stuff going on with the character (she really looks more like an athlete than a "musclegirl", I don't think she could pass for a bodybuilder -- just a sprinter or kickboxer), but with all the flaws?

I mean she talks like an idiot, has the mind of a preteen, and apparently has the hygiene of a hobo, so, aside from being super-strong and presumably super-tough, I fail to see how she could come close to qualifying as a Mary Sue built on the artist's fetishes.

Just about EVERY character has maybe one or two redeeming features, no matter who they are, so I'm going to assume "being built like a dude" (which I can't see, myself) is Gogo's?

It still doesn't really make her come off as especially squicky. That kind of build seems believe-able for someone who is very sporty.

>> No.22267158

To wit, it would seem worse if she had all the abilities and strength and everything else she does and was built more like a little girl than a superheroine.

>> No.22268551

And here is where i get to be a dick: Yea there is, but I was sworn to never share them.

>> No.22268703

You're a tripfag, and that implies that you've been on /tg/ for a while.

As such, you know that you don't do that. That you never advertise that you know of where something can be found, then claim that you can't show us. Seriously, man.

>> No.22269077

Dude. You must. For the good of /tg/.

Who made you swear though? Was it Van Heist himself?

>> No.22270106

Looking at the comics so far (this is all knew to me) this is what I want to happen in the story:
>Andy matures normally and actually reaches a state of decent physique.
>Gogo matures slower, so at one point they are at about the same age by appearance.
>Andy convinces Didi to give him Gogo's biomorphing abilities.
>Also gets Didi to teach him how to increase the level of biomatter his body has access to through thought alone.
>All this without Gogo finding out.
>So Andy can create new limbs and organs, shape shift, and increase/decrease his size at will without limit to the amount of biomater he has access to.
>He's pretty awesome.
>Goes up to Gogo
>"hey Gogo, wanna try wrestling?"
>"DAAAAAAAAW my wittle bear thinks he has body abel to beat gogo, how cute! (is this attempt to get me to smother you with my boobies?)
>"C'mon! it'd be fun!"
>"Okay baby-bear, IT IS ON LIKE DONKEY KONG"
>"Oh Gogo-"
>Makes two new arms as thick at tree trunks tipped with masses of solid bone and muscle. She's taken aback.
>"-I'm not baby-bear anymore..."
>and it begins.

>> No.22270127


>the battle is lengthy and draw out
>it's obvious that Gogo isn't the one increasing the power level used, Andy is.
>She doesn't because she knows she's more powerful than Andy.
>Andy knows too.
>Powers not the point.
>Andy finally manages to push her to the point were she'd have to use some more deadly powers to remain on par with him.
>"This is sirius Pandy bear, you wanna keep going?"
>"Bring it!"
>She brings it. It's harsh.
>Andy's completely overpowered, Gogo overestimated his power, ends up deep frying him.
>His crisp body lies dead on the floor.
>It takes her a second to realize what she has done.
>Expression of pure horror and despair passes over her face.
>She returns to "normal" and walks up to the body.
>Stares at it for a while. Starts to cry.
>"what I tell you Andy... I gave you vary clear orders..."
>Crumbles onto the body, balling like a bitch.
>"lol got you!"
>Andy sprouts tentacles by the hundreds and captures the surprised Gogo.
>She's confused, crying, and happy at the same time.
>"You can't bring yourself to kill me can you? and you don't want to see me die do you?"
>releases Gogo
>"You can call me Pandy if you want, but no more 'Baby-Bear'. If anything, I'm 'Manly-Bear'!".
>Gogo manages to recover.
>"Okay Pandy, guess you've earned it"
>Despite the tough demeanor, they both blush a little.
>"But your still my baby-bear..."
>"mrrrh fine. Pizza?"
>"Yus, killing you works up an appetite"
The End.
Sorry that was way more fan fiction-y than I intended. Hope you enjoyed...?

>> No.22270192

And here I thought that Bomango's writing couldn't get worse.

So, thanks for proving me wrong.

>> No.22270223

yeah figured that'd be the reaction...

>> No.22270313

the dialogue is painful to read

>> No.22270348


Does your character have conflicts?
Can they win all their conflicts if they applied effort?
Congrats, you're not terrible.

I don't care if you're an immortal monkey king who makes all the other Gods look like shit and knows every magic trick under the sun, if you can't take that fucking forehead band off we're onto something

>> No.22270392


It's like a new language. Lolcatzwiggereze.

>> No.22270658

How about an incredibly intelligent witch who makes horrible decisions because he assumes that everything in life is *exactly* like his books say it should be?

"Devils may be evil, but they're lawful, so as long as I'm careful I don't need to worry about anything if I summon one and keep it as my familiar. Nothing bad could ever come from this."

>> No.22271197 [SPOILER] 

Alright, the ONE I can share.

>> No.22271216

Why that one?

Because it's already all over Paheal and other similar sites?

>> No.22271291

Basically Heist and I are very private despite our active internetwebs life; as such this is the only pic you will ever find of us. I leave you to figure out who's foot is who's

>> No.22271342

yep. you gots it. which is why all the rest is stored on an external. Basically he doesn't' like doing nudes except as practice. And me, i don't use electronics for my life drawings. Good old fashioned paper, inks and graphite for me.

>> No.22271399

Though in all fairness I was just reminded that SOMEONE scanned one of my really early pieces. But its a piece of shit and I don't actively share it.

>> No.22271400

>that sandal foot

jesus fucking christ

>> No.22271418

So did you draw that or did Van Heist?

>> No.22271477

I really should stop encouraging this. . .but yea, twas me.

>> No.22271520

so SOMEONE else will

>> No.22271638

Goddamn it you fuck i said no.

>> No.22271671

Well, clearly the only solution to this problem is to draw more Gogo porn and post it here.

>> No.22271819

what else are all of us who like touch chicks with muscles to do?


>> No.22272135

Rolled 6

>like ninjas they tend to flip out and destroy things

Also, you guys realize this design is basically rule 63 Kamina from Gurren :agann?

>> No.22272219

No, I've seen 63 Kamina and OP's not gonna cut it.

>> No.22272238

Rolled 5

so that comics is on? Dude of Dudes demans a link!

>> No.22272269

Rolled 2

somehow I got 3 at my Female Orc Frenzied Berserker daughter of tribe chief. Hell if I know how I did it, probably forgot some section.

>> No.22272323


Every time I see this, I just think about how perfect this character would be for Shadowrun. Obviously some of the odder stuff is the character's personal delusion, but a lot of this stuff is pure gold.

>> No.22272353

Rolled 3

>a Barbarian who is a professional archeologis

>> No.22272418

Rolled 3

A jedi riding a dragon wearing a trench coat and he's also a Drow elf who gets brutally murdered to show how strong the bad guy is however is cool.

>> No.22272439

Rolled 5

Rowling said she always thought he was gay.

>> No.22272478

>a Barbarian who is a professional archeologist
Thank you. My next character is going to be half-orc Indiana Jones.

>> No.22272484

Rolled 4

Meanwhile at main Marvel Universe.

>> No.22272528

Why do they never go after actual supervillians?

>> No.22272555

There are some signs there, if you start reading with that thought in mind, his conversation in the pesudo-afterlife especially. It's subtle enough to be ambiguous, which was the right way to do it, in my opinion. It's not a plot point; it doesn't need to be made explicitly obvious in the story, it's just a bit of possible characterization.

>> No.22272587

because DOOM is at LATVERIA

>> No.22273061

>This Thread

I don't give a fuck wheather or not she is a mary sue. My cock is currently hard enough to cut diamond.

>> No.22273135

The Punisher has kinda staked out New York as his primary turf. And it's not like he's alone, so you can't complain about that.

He does like to take 'vacations' from time to time, though...

Damnit, there's a pic for this, but it's going to take me so long to retrieve it...

>> No.22273249

Man I assumed to get an insane score because of all the shit my DSA Wizard had been through, with him being the only magic character in the group (magic is kind of rare but not uncommon, there are academies but magic items are rare as fuck) that is the only member of the group to actually still be around from the beginning of the game for over 3 years OOC now. But with all the points I got back from the later thing, I ended up with... 7.
Despite speaking multiple languages, having a small campaign won by him and having hair that changes color.

...I got involved with fairy folk, and they considered the hair thing a joke, alright? I tried to dispell it, but that damn Kobold king put a permanent ASP in that. At least I have control over it. Although, mind you, that stuff like that will get you in trouble with some of those magic hating people with prejudices. And by trouble I mean fire.

Anyways, He seems much less Mary Sue than I though the test would turn him out to be

>> No.22273314

Is it weird that the biggest problem I ahve wiht the OP's image is that the the tonfas should either have a hole in them for the cross-over part or be capable of clipping through each other for the back-holster to work?

>> No.22273428

I've never liked that image; Kamina was fucking shredded and she's just thin. Also the separately-taped boobs bug me as well.

>> No.22274647

Fair enough. Maybe I'm just jaded since there's enough big-titted shiny shit on the internet to fill an ocean, but it's going to need something more than flashing gizmos and tits to interest me.

>> No.22275682

If I remember correctly, the Punisher refused to fight back against Captain America because he was... well, Captain America, representative of all that Castle fought for. He took his licks... but I might be mistaken.

>> No.22275858

that is true

>> No.22275955

Not really. For what it's worth, I assume there is a second strap running from the helmet-pauldron to the top of the back-holster, and that the tonfas are stacked over each other with the back-holster projecting twice their width.

It's ungainly, but this chick can sprout another damn arm if she needs the balance.

>> No.22276030

Hell, if she needs it that bad, with a few days' prep-time, she can sprout a whole other her.

She's done it before, who's to say that the next one won't be as psychotic and murder-happy as the current one?

>> No.22276258

Rolled 17

She can also get very big with no effort: http://vanheist.deviantart.com/gallery/?offset=48#/d4evnip
(File too big)

>> No.22276317

Oh yeah. You make a really good point. That particular talent was also shown off at >>22258955, just by the way.

>> No.22276741

Cap is peak human. Punisher is an old guy with a broken body. Cap can deflect bullets... Forever. Fuck Punisher

>> No.22279591

>Russian accent
>Greasemonkey girl
Yeah, totally not fetishbait in the slightest.

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