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22223948 No.22223948 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Alright /tg/, it's time to take the straight and narrow in my tradition games. Teach me your ways.
How do you I Paladin?

>> No.22223973
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>> No.22223992

I don't, 3.5e/PF's Paladin mechanics are fuckawful and the concept of falling is pants on head retarded.

>> No.22224016

>How do you I Paladin?
>I Paladin

Whelp, that's my new warforged character.

>> No.22224027
File: 477 KB, 700x700, reactionyou.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>I hate 3.5 so gosh-darn much I'm going to go into every thread about it and contribute nothing! That'll show others!

>> No.22224043

I like this plan
What's a better system to paladin around in?
Glad I could help lol

>> No.22224069
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Act like the most outrageous superhero you can think of mixed with the stereotypical crusader guy who goes around killing infidels. Your goal is justice and the furtherance of your god. You follow law but also follow what is right. You do not give into evil, you crush it. Strive to be the best you can be.

>> No.22224082

There is a very simple thing you need to remember. Just because a character is good does not make them a nice person. For instance take Samuel Vimes, one of the most firmly good archetype characters out there. Throughout his stories in the Discworld Saga he is at no time a nice person. Ultimately he will do good and ensure good is done, but not in a nice way.

Lets use an example. There is a villain, and he has just murdered one of your comrades, so you beat him to death in a crowded street to ensure he doesn't do it to anyone else. Or, said villain has tortured people to the point of breaking them, so instead of letting them suffer you kill them to give a merciful end. That kind of jazz.

>> No.22224090

Don't be a dick. Have empathy for others, even your enemies. Even if you don't agree with someone, try to understand their position. Recognize that you have power far greater than others, and with it comes the responsibility to use it to make the world a better place, both for others and yourself. Even as a shining pillar of righteousness, you are not an island. Someone trained you in your ways, your deity grants you strength, your comrades provide the skills you can not, your weapons and armor were likely crafted by another, the very food you consume and the shelter you take were the products of others. Realize your place in the vast network of Life and strive to become an anchor for others to achieve greatness.

Or failing that, just pretend you're Superman.

>> No.22224097

Remember, Good doesn't necessarily mean Nice.

Good means self sacrifice, it means selflessness, it means defending the weak. It means that the "means" don't always justify the ends, even if it makes life harder.

>> No.22224113
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>> No.22224119

Deep, think I'm understanding this all

>> No.22224178
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It's all about good. The funny thing is the only real way to get any sort of satisfaction in life is to GIVE. To give really is to receive. Good is about the community above the individual. Good is about family and friends. A good character, especially a paladin, would do anything to protect that. Anything. Giving their life is nothing, because a life lived selfishly is less than nothing.

Merry Christmas /tg/!

Be excellent to each other.

>> No.22224183
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>Not replying with more Kamen Rider

>> No.22224210
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recently i've been paladining like so.
the law is nothing more than an extension of the word of my god.


>> No.22224221
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>> No.22224222

Am I the only one here who can't help but play Lawful Good regardless of game/genre/system? Even when I'm TRYING to be Chaotic or Neutral my first instinct to any situation tends to hover in the Lawful Good direction. The closest I've really ever played evil was True Neutral, and even then it was in name only.

Too bad this leads to friction with our THAT GUY who is Chaotic Evil regardless of his stated alignment. It's like I am his assumed opposite in every game who's job it is to keep him from destroying the campaign, or at least limit him to mere self-destruction.

Oddly enough, I never play Paladins. It's just my weird aversion to divine classes.

>> No.22224232

If Javert could actually detect evil he would have made for a great paladin.

>> No.22224258

that's probably why he fell. literally

>> No.22224264

Javert doesn't care about evil. He cares about the law.
He's a lawful lawful paladin of law.

>> No.22224283

>implying lawbreakers aren't all evil.

>> No.22224290

OP here, I have the same thing. Even the aversion to divine classes. Or really anything that isn't a rogue or fighter (yes, imagine a lawful good intentioned rogue lol)

>> No.22224310

That's the thing. Normal paladins can see that a law might not be right, or talk about inner virtue, goodness, that kind of shit.
Javert isn't really concerned with that. You're lawful or you're not, and anything not means you must be punished. So sayeth the stars.

>> No.22224339
File: 264 KB, 600x387, Dredd8.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.22224345

and i agree.

but playing that style does make for a more fun and dynamic character

>> No.22224365

Jesus fuck I cried when Javert went down.
How is a pic of Dredd making me sad?
What is this feeling?

Zealous, overbearing Paladins are way more fun.
Like imagine a Paladin of menoth, burning everything.

>> No.22224368

Why do you confuse lawful and good? A character like the one you're portraying right now would be utterly dumbfounded by a Lawful Evil society.

>> No.22224369

I would suggest playing the character like a person who never really grew up, seeing the world like a playground smiled upon by their god, thinking that everything can be forgiven, and letting people live and not being a dick to the rest of the characters in the party.

Then, when the shit hits the fan and the necromancer animates a nation, shatter that naivete like... something that shatters easily and get to the badassery.

>> No.22224371

There is almost nothing dynamic about Javert. The second he starts to second guess his own actions and stuff he goes and kills himself.

>> No.22224403

Look a bit deeper. Remember the scene in the attic/hospital? Where he admitted he was from the gutter etc?
In Javert's eyes, he's been tainted the whole time. He was a criminal at one point, or close enough. He doesn't get just realize he's been fucking up, he stops denying that his moral code excludes him.
And he stays loyal to it until the end. He isn't killing himself just because he failed in catching Jean Val Jean, he's killing himself because he's admitting he's no better than him. And that means he can never enter Paradise. (Hence the "if they should fall as Lucifer did" line.)

>> No.22224417

I'm not saying I play Javert. but I was using him as a jumping off point.

our group was me playing a paladin, a fighter and a cleric transporting 2 prisoners for sentencing, a rogue and warlock. we had a pretty good dynamic going as the campaign unfolded

>> No.22224429
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I am not naive. There are men who will abuse your generosity to achieve their devious aims so it takes profound wisdom to know when to offer the hand of mercy or when to offer the blade.

>> No.22224430

That sounds more like Neutral Good or maybe Chaotic Good than Lawful Good to me. Lawful Good characters are supposed to kill when the law demands so, meaning they aren't afraid of smiting infidels or what have you. Neutral Good is the Hippie/Vigilante alignment, and Chaotic Good the Rebel/Freedom Fighter.

>> No.22224464
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Picked this up the other night. Seems applicable.

>> No.22224487
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Also this, kinda.

>> No.22224494

Yes, I do believe you are right. However, is it still possible to have the character growth were they go from a little less Superman to a little more Batman?

>> No.22224509

>What's a better system to paladin around in?

>> No.22224510

sure. just have your character's parents get killed.

>> No.22224511
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These too probably.

>> No.22224523
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>> No.22224529

Think to yourself, at all times:
What would Lancelot do?

Yes, Lancelot was a good and noble knight. He was also fucking the king's wife.

>> No.22224533

reminds me of a time I purposely tooled my Paladin against my own party, and when it came to it, he beat them down.

Reason? They wanted to kill a Giant who was stealing livestock, The Giant was doing it to feed his wife and newly born kid.

That shit ain't right.

>> No.22224542
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>Not Galahad

do you even Paladin?

>> No.22224544

You know what? FUCK Lancelot. Fuck him. Just...hate him so much.

>> No.22224554

Maybe they should think about what GALAHAD would do instead, and thereby avoid destroying the greatest kingdom on God's green earth with their dicks.

>> No.22224566

I'm going to have to agree with Galahad. Lancelot though is a very good model of temptation and what it can do

>> No.22224567
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This one is a classic.

>> No.22224593
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Another one.

>> No.22224602
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Mah Brethren

>> No.22224614

awesome thanks

>> No.22224617
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Last one for now.

>> No.22224624
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A paladin thread you say?

may I join in?

>> No.22224655

I don't know, you don't seem to really be up to it.
You might need a hand with that.

>> No.22224662

That's definitely CG. You're violating your law in order to do what you think is right, following your own personal moral compass. Pure altruism with little regard for the establishment is no longer the realm of the Lawful Good aligment. (That said, alignments aren't shackles, so don't take this too seriously)

>> No.22224690

oh i disagree. In fact I think he set the gold standard.

>> No.22224724

Lets not lose our head about this.
Clearly it was Ned.

>> No.22224738
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>> No.22224743

I love you.

>> No.22224758

Too me, lawful good just means you play by the rules, and you are a good guy. There is nothing in the rules that say "Thou shalt not enjoy explosions" or "Thou shalt not beat a lich to death with its own arm".

>> No.22224763
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The difference between a paladin and a freedom fighter - lawful good and chaotic good, if you will - is that the paladin does not accept that 'necessary sacrifices' are at all necessary. A paladin sacrifices themselves, not others. If you find yourself forced to choose between lesser evils, you just aren't looking at all the solutions.


To be a paladin is to dream the impossible dream.

>> No.22224843
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Maybe take a chapter from the tale of Saint Donovan.

>> No.22224849

>"Thou shalt not beat a lich to death with its own arm".
Especially if you're in the Order of the Frying Pan

>> No.22224920

I am torn between the desire to know what that is and the instinct to avoid being called new.

>> No.22224923

To fight the unbeatable foe?

>> No.22224937

To bear with unbearable sorrow

>> No.22224948

someone mentioned it in the paladin demon fighting thread yesterday.
An order of paladins who use improvised weapons so they're always trained in whats on hand (chairs, table legs, doors)

>> No.22224953

That might fall under the good part though.

>> No.22224961

to run where the brave dare not go?

>> No.22224975


>> No.22224988

To right the unrightable wrong

>> No.22225036

Lawful, to me, is adherence to order. Maybe some sorts of rules, or a schedule, or a type of living. Some order to combat the chaos of the world around you, turning you into a beacon that can easily be identified by those who are wayward in the world.

Goodness means that you don't make unneeded sacrifices, and if reasonable you sacrifice yourself first. You fight to make sure that no sacrifices are made, even the sacrificing of your enemies, but if it's unavoidable then you take as small of a sacrifice as you can. You have to be strong and recognize that life isn't without sacrifice, but don't succumb to the temptation to have an easy out.

That's my interpretation of the alignments at least.

>> No.22225058

>He isn't killing himself just because he failed in catching Jean Val Jean, he's killing himself because he's admitting he's no better than him. And that means he can never enter Paradise. (Hence the "if they should fall as Lucifer did" line.)
If i may argue/expand upon this.
Javert committed suicide because he for his whole life saw Valjean as a criminal. and to Javert once you have fallen there is no chance for redemption. so once Valjean, a man Javert saw as evil, spared his life and proved to Javert that he was wrong he could no longer rationalize his duty with what he has seen. really the failure here is one of the state. Javert is trying to uphold law and order in a corrupted state.

also if you notice in the song, Javert's Suicide he says almost the same words as Valjean during What have I done, this is because they are both facing a similar crisis, when they are at their worst they are both confronted with acts of mercy. Valjean is able to use this to change into a better man, while Javert fails and thusly falls.

>> No.22225149

OP here, thanks for all the discussion.
One question though from a thread I saw before: Say a Paladin is clearing out some evil for a town, but the evil amasses an army that can overrun the town being protected. The townspeople want to fight alongside the Paladin, and are willing to risk their lives knowing the consequences.
Is the paladin in the right to accept their sacrifice to fight the evil?

>> No.22225171

I think Lawful means more than just adherence to order. It means belief in hierarchy and the establishment. A Lawful character will always heed the words of those above him, and, on the other hand, will provide those below him with guidance. However, he will hold no ideals about equality or complete freedom, for a fearless and chaotic person, with no qualms about ignoring orders when they feel like they should, is a danger to the community as a whole. From a Lawful point of view, those who hold no regard for those above more often than not lack proper knowledge of the situation and its context, meaning they will end up taking reckless decisions that might mean the doom of a larger group. Thus, I feel it's fundamentally a "my opinion" versus "the consensus" axis, be it Evil, Good or Neutral.

>> No.22225175
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Never forget Trivon.
If that is their choice, our duty is to make sure that as many of them survive as possible.

>> No.22225201

short answer: yes.

Long answer: so long as there is a hope of victory and he has evacuated all the noncombatientes , like elderly and children

>> No.22225214

Should equal weight be put on assumed hierarchy (kings over generals over sheriffs over landowners) or should it be tipped one way or another for assumed or proved worth?

>> No.22225284

There is an assumed heirarchy, but it should be disregarded if any orders conflict with your moral code. Because a paladin's code must always come before all other laws, as your code is your deity's law.

>> No.22225330

That's roughly what I was getting at, though I feel that lawful is a bit more open that that. Most likely it involves someone who looks to things like you describe, but there can be those who live in a 'lawful' manner but have their own moral code. Again, it's just my opinion but that's how alignment discussions always go.

If the townsfolk would stand a chance, he is fine in accepting the help. If the town is fucked beyond measure, then he should encourage them to retreat and gather aid so they can return and battle it off. If they are waiting for aid to come, it's a toss-up and I would personally go with the "Barricade, make a line of defense, another barricade and defensive line. Try to hold them back and keep them concentrated here." Because it will allow the reinforcements to have all the evil army in one spot.

If the town is screwed it would just cause deaths and the evil troops would move on anyway. If there's a chance, they could save many lives by stopping them there and this extends to the reinforcement plan.

>> No.22225344

OK, so in the example here >>22225149, if the a local sheriff where to volunteer the town but you suspect he doesn't think with their intentions in mind you should work to get everyone out.
However, if the tavern owner who you believe does rightfully speak for the town volunteers them then it's a go?
This is all so interesting, thank you so much /tg/

>> No.22225354

So I'll soon be playing a Paladin of Sarenrae (who's all about redeeming people). Can I just toss out a "Please stop or I will smite you" and then kill them, or do I have to play the part with non-lethal damage.

>> No.22225395

The sad truth is that some people cannot be redeemed, you as a paladin and servant of your deity must accept this fact. Persistent evil, or evil strong enough to cause global unrest must be ended, but those who have yet to show this should be treated with hope. Non-lethal until proven to be a colossal dick.

>> No.22225722
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God damn it Jaime is awesome

>> No.22226004

i already know this next game is going to have some out of game conflicts. I'm paladining it up with a "CG" bard who likes to play more CN.... hes already been butthurt that my PC didnt go with him to the tavern to pick up wenches because i was busy trying to find info on a missing NPC and he ended up in some strangers house naked and with vampire bite marks on his neck

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