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22192687 No.22192687 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

>convince me to play Orks and not Spice Mehronies

I love the idea of Orks, but I also want an army that can hold its own on the battlefield. Sadly though, nothing I've ever seen in their codex indicates to me that they have enough dakka, that they're choppy enough, or that they're even all that tough.

However, I haven't read any codex since like 3rd edition. Have they gotten better since then?

>> No.22192754

Slightly better. Still lacking Anti-tank though.

>> No.22192810

Seems to me they were lacking in everything except possibly melee vs heavy armour (ie spruce morhines). Even then they didn't seem tough enough to get into CC due to their shitty, shitty armour saves

>> No.22192820


But your problem is that you've got statistic-tunnel vision. Basically, you're only focus on whether or not something shoots well is BS score. And Saving-Throw is the only thing you're looking at for survivability.

In short, Orks are an army of attrition. They are a 'Quantity has a Quality of it's own' army, in a game that focuses on stupid amounts of developer bias towards the miniscule elite armies. You don't win with dirty developer-biased special rules, and you don't win through hyper amounts of forgiveness for the mistakes you make. You win because you utilize large-army tactics and out-last your opponent. You shoot well because 2 ork shootas will hit more often than a bolter marine, while being 3/4ths the point cost. And combat... well, you rely on a PK Nob to do your heavy lifting, while each Shoota boy charges with the same number of WS 4 attacks as an assault marine.

Orks are slightly above-par combat army, with dirt cheap shooting, and survival through numbers. Add in a KFF Mek or 2, and you've got a 5+ cover save on an army that wins through being a pain in the ass to remove off the board.

Plus you're the underdogs. The ACTUAL underdogs of the setting.

>> No.22192838

They have a fuck load of attacks, and in anycase, you want to run Shoota Boyz, not sluggas.
And if you run Sluggas, only run one unit, and make them 'Ard Boyz, which gives them a +4 armor save. Not as good as Marines, but better than Guardsman.

>> No.22192851

Make Orkz and Green Stuff them in order to make a complete Orkz iz made 4 rockin' army. Basically model different units after different famous bands and what not. Vehicles are covered in amps and orkz shredding on guitars. Your Big Mek wields a power guitar instead of a power first and blasts apart space marines with the sheer power or rock and roll.

>> No.22192888

Armor is a crutch for survivability. What you're not paying attention to, is the fact that Orks come in large numbers at a significant fraction of the cost of a heavier armored MEQ unit.

If you really want to look into Orks, take Shoota boyz over Slugga/Choppas (only exception being 'Ard Choppa/Sluggas), take at least 1 KFF, stay away from Flash-Gitz (and looted wagons, tankbustas, warpheads/wierdboyz), and don't use Zzap Guns.

>> No.22192908
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>>Plus you're the underdogs. The ACTUAL underdogs of the setting.


>> No.22192957

Or are you really that retarded? Orks are the actual underdogs of the setting, game-wise especially. But even in fluff they win less than even Eldar.

>> No.22192959

>I want to play this army
>But it can't beat powergamers like myself, tell me how I can /win

No. Man up and play what you want.

>> No.22192986


Orks outnumber everyone except the Tyranids (possibly).

Orks are the faction who CANNOT be beaten. Ever. It's not possible to beat them, only hold them at bay.

They're like Skaven or Daemons. Casualties don't matter, it just delays the inevitable.

>> No.22193058

>I am definitely retarded for failing at reading comprehension.

>-Orks outnumber everyone except the Tyranids (possibly).
Does not help them to be portrayed as anything other than a punching-bag villain until Chaos shows up as 'the real threat'.

>-Orks are the faction who CANNOT be beaten. Ever. It's not possible to beat them, only hold them at bay.
A fluff crutch so you don't feel bad at the pileup of defeats.

>> No.22193064

>wanting to win at least some of the time

Theres playing for fun and playing to win, and I just happen to want a bit of both. Doesn't make me a powergamer or whatever

Oh fuck that is the greatest idea I have ever seen

>shootas over choppas
>stay away from this that and those guys

What if I want to go melee? Is there any hope for melee orks or is it go dakka or go home? Also am I right in thinking you say those units are crap because they're not tough enough for the points, or is there some other reason?

>> No.22193120

OP, here's a little something to get your emprah worshiping jimmies rustled.
The Imperium sent a ship to the edge of space where there should only be nothingness.

They picked up frequencies from all directions at an unbelievable level of energy which, when analyzed, was revealed to be Orks literally shouting across the great expanse of the known universe at each other.

That's right OP: Orks live where there's literally no other matter. Ork territory is on the same scale Sol is to Antares.

>> No.22193144
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Look at this cute little naive thing.

That's an underdog.

>> No.22193145
File: 150 KB, 894x894, Da life.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

No. I can't convince you of anything. If you like orks, you'll know. It's not something one can force.

>> No.22193149

Thanks to allies, you can take anything Orks lack from another army. So if you need anti-tank, you can borrow some Leman Russes or some shizz.

>> No.22193175

Melee Orks can work pretty well. Toss some Choppa Boyz in a Battlewagon and drive head-first into melee. Biker Nobz are also REALLY good.

>> No.22193217

Then run Slugga boyz. Don't expect to win in melee without piling on the numbers though.

>> No.22193230

Your problem OP? You overlooked the best unit in the game and how to use them:

Boyz. You need more of them. No, more than that. ALL the boyz. The only time I have ever lost in my LGS was against a list-tailor, simply because I spam boys and position them to get the charge every time.

>> No.22193270

Wait what? Orks living outside the universe? This is why I love Orks, their fluff and personality is ridiculous

I don't know how allies and stuff work since I haven't read a rulebook since 3rd ed. Can any army just "ally" with any other army and use whatever they want?

Biker nobs eh? I like the sound of that. It's one of those unit types I just never really considered

I do like Orks, I just also like to win some of the time and I just can't figure out how from what I've seen of the Ork stats and such

>> No.22193283

>What if I want to go melee?
Then you go predominantly with Nobs, and the only unit of troop-slot boyz you field is 'Ard Choppa/Sluggas in a Battlewagon. Nobs/Manz are either in Battlewagons or on Bikes (Nobs).

Is there any hope for melee orks or is it go dakka or go home?
6e in general is very shooting-biased, and you're pretty stupid to take 1 extra melee attack at Initiative 2 over Assault 2 at 18" range. In any case, Orks took a hit to their melee ability with the onset of their current 4e codex, and have been fairly jack-of-all or dakka-focused since then, depending on the edition. You *CAN* do melee, but you rely on Nobs/MANz to do it for the rest of your army. And even then, they're good... but not Top-Tier (anymore).

>Also am I right in thinking you say those units are crap because they're not tough enough for the points, or is there some other reason?
It's an entirely different reason than *tough*. Flash-Gitz are terrible due to their stupidly high point-cost, and relatively low damage output. Zzap Guns are terrible because as Anti-Tank they will average a Str 7, and only get the much needed Strength 9+ an average of 36% of the time. Plus Zzaps are painfully expensive for what (little) they will do.

Warpheads-Wyrdboyz are just plain bad. They give no psychic-defense for your army (ally with Eldar for that), and do minimal damage, while being easily shut down with a Psychic Hood or Runes of Warding. And ultimately, they're less useful than a Kustom Force-Field, less destructive than a PK Biker-Boss or Shock Attack Gun, and less capable of leading your units than a Big Mek or Warboss.

>> No.22193320

>I do like Orks, I just also like to win some of the time and I just can't figure out how from what I've seen of the Ork stats and such

Don't look at stats, look at battle reports.
Orks are OP enough to be strong, but weak enough to not be hated for being an autowin army.

>> No.22193345

Everything except Tyranids, though with differing levels of friendliness. Some allies will be treated as friendly units, others are just a separate mini-army, and some have a chance to do nothing if they are close to your other guys.

>> No.22193379

>Biker nobs eh? I like the sound of that. It's one of those unit types I just never really considered

Biker Nobs are alright, but run into the problem of being bikes. You can lose models by driving through terrain, and cannot drive up to upper levels of terrain.

>> No.22193406

>Don't look at stats, look at battle reports.
Don't even look at battle-reports.

Look at statistical analysis and point-cost in relation to damage output. Compensate with Mobile Cover in the form of KFFs and Gretchin-Screens, and you've got attrition warfare at it's finest.

>> No.22193455

>Orks are OP enough to be strong, but weak enough to not be hated for being an autowin army.

Thats exactly what I'm looking for. Winning all the time is only slightly less crap than losing all the time IMO

Alright thanks for the input. I was always worried because Slugga boyz seemed so underpowered, but if they're not even the main melee unit for Orks then I guess those worries were unfounded. I'll chuck Nobs on my to-buy list

>> No.22193594

To be fair though, Choppa/Sluggas *WERE* the main melee unit of the army up until their most recent codex update. Since then they lost Choppa and Initiative x2 on the charge in favor of +1 Str. While Nobs became the go-to for powerhouse melee shenanigans. Just don't send your Nobs against the likes of Grey Knights, or Stormshield Terminators, and you should do fine with them. And if you take Nob-Bikers, you shouldn't have too much trouble picking and choosing your melee battles with them.

On a side note, one reason Shootas do better is because if they get charged, they'll unload a crap-ton of shots into that unit.

>> No.22193702

>Since then they lost Choppa and Initiative x2 on the charge in favor of +1 Str

Not sure if want. I loved the Choppa, but I also thought Melee Orks with S3 just didn't make sense, even if they did get an assload of attacks

If theres no more choppas, how do I take down marine boyz?

>> No.22193758

>how do I take down marine boyz?
i dont think you are quite ready for orks yet

take a few more hits to the head

>> No.22193796

Through weight of damage. Marines will still fail armor saves 1/3rd of the time. And ultimately Choppas just reduced their save by 16.6%. Now you swing last, and at Str 4 when charging only. But the cost of boyz dropped to the point where each model is 6pts. You rely on the Nob to carry a PowerKlaw to do the heavy lifting and kill monsters/vehicles/marines. For Nob Mobs, you're packing a 4+ save (possibly), with a 5++ and FnP, Str 5 on the charge, 4 to 5 attacks on the charge depending on weapon setup, with generally about 1 PK per 3 Nobs in the unit.

Shootas work on the same principle, but with ranged ability. Throw 60+ dice at a marine unit, and you'll kill quite a few. Statistically, about 3 to 4. And out of a 10-man unit that costs just about the same as you, that's a huge deal.

>> No.22196279

Was thinking of getting a Warboss and putting him on a bike with a big choppa? thoughts? Don't really care about competitiveness, just so long as its not completely useless.

>> No.22196331

Well, those guys are superbosses, so dont worry about it!

although not giving him a powerklaw is a leeetle bit of a travesty

>> No.22196394 [DELETED] 

Bike + PK + Cybork is expensive as fuck though

>> No.22196637


Take shootas over sluggas, they have 2 shots on the assault and get the same number of attacks as a slugga boy. But take hordes of them, that's the way to win, drown things in dice rolls.

>> No.22196688


Always take PK, but you have to sweep the unit in one turn, challenges and initiative 1 will kill you. Get a Bigmek first though, they will make your boyz much more survivable. What do you intend to run boyz in trukks or mobs of boyz on foot? Also Burnaz in trukks and dakkajets might be something to consider.

>> No.22196885

Was intending to run as little vehicles as possible, maybe only a few bikes and a looted battle wagon, at least so far, and just a shitload of foot slogging shoota boyz. WANTS are a bunch of bunch of burna boyz and a bunch of storm boyz.

I have some pieces for tankbustas but I think I'd prefer a couple of meganobz instead

>> No.22197783

Speaking of which, what's the difference between using a trukk and a looted wagon?

>> No.22198137

Trukks are fast

Looted Wagons can get one more big shoota and a skorcha, but can't go fast.
They aren't BAD, but they really aren't that GOOD either. Anytime I've used a skorcha wagon was with 11 Burna Boyz (One mek) and a Big Mek with a KFF. I tore shit apart.

At least until I failed a cover save against a fucking Death ray, then it blew the fuck up. Then I charged his Warriors and raped them with that sweet sweet power weapon.

Da choppy boyz iz alright. I actually perfer them to shoota boyz, but that's a matter of preference. There's that special luck you get with Sluggaz that's just something to behold when somehow managed to get 12 wounds with a mob of thirty boyz spraying at something.

Az fer the choppy bitz. They'z alright. We really need an update. FAQs helped us a bit, especially with the Gitfindaz and Glory Hogs changes. Tankbustaz are fucking glorious to watch tear apart shit with a barrage of fifteen rockets raining hell at vehicles. Flash gitz are really a matter of "I want to have fun." Don't bring them if you really really want to be competitive. Lootahz are better, cheaper, and more efficient.

Burna boyz in either of the wagons are fucking great. Mek repair whilst you roll up and take damage, then the second you get in range of that termy rape gun known as a kustom megablasta. God help them if they come near the fucking wagon.

Stormboyz are hands down the most amusing ork unit to play with in my opinion. Zagstruk is fucking BEAST, but never take him with a squad bigger than ten, or you're asking for a mishap. Twenty Stormboyz jumpin around is just amusing to watch them spray bullets into as they pass cover save after cover save, only to charge into them still 18 deep and rape the living fuck out of them.

>> No.22199936
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>> No.22200047

My 2 cents, give the nobs in the boyz units a big shoota, in the codex it says "any ork can take a big shoota", haven't had ANY arguments EVER over that.
Since PK nobs wont get the pistol bonus attack anyway, it frees up a boy to have a shoota (instead of the nobs pistol) or another slugga choppa combo (gaining +1 attack overall) plus if your nob rolls a 6 to hit he can place the shot, and he is harder to kill (2 wounds) and place the nob at about the center of a full unit, or behind about 2 or 3 rows of ork boys so he doesnt get killed and is still close enough to attack, the worst thing that can happen to a boyz mob is losing a PK nob with bosspole to precision shooting or being near the front and getting shot at

>> No.22200077
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That's heresy.
Punishable by death.
About now.

>> No.22200201

Orks get the best theme songs
that is all

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